@lean karma
#lore-and-universe
terse lava
alpine ledge
Do you guys prefer canon before halo 4, or the canon afterwords? I heard there's a difference, and I'm putting together a comprehensive guide for both.
carmine sleet
Who told you they were different canons?
timid elk
They’re not different canons, definitely different feelings tho...
alpine ledge
Maybe canon is a bad word, but before 343, lore about ancient humans was non-existent.
carmine sleet
Yes, then 343i decided to explain ancient humans
terse lava
Or do you mean pre forerunner saga which introduced ancient advanced humanity
versed helm
Hey, is it legal here to reference to reference Red vs. Blue here>
gilded mason
Wouldn't be really relevant to the channel
versed helm
Are we a creation of some cosmic coincidence?
carmine sleet
There's nothing against talking about RvB but it should be noted Red Vs Blue is not in the same continuity as Halo
lean karma
terse lava
Could try general chat though
Also a thought occurred to me. We are told Ripa is the 18th arbiter in the line of immaculate succession. Meanwhile the arbiter mausoleum has around 250 caskets I think. With the rank of arbiter once being a top general and then of shame, and the vast history of the covenant...could there be multiple mausoleums?
jaunty latch
slip space works very differently than normal physics
terse lava
And thel saw only those in his soon to be "arbiter line"
jaunty latch
Im just waiting to see if there are going to introduce a new empire in the halo galaxy because there has to be more empires out there especially out of human and covenant controlled space
carmine sleet
The UNSC isn't an empire and not every new faction needs to be an empire
jaunty latch
your right but I consider it to be since pretty much all of humanity is united and is ruled by corrupt people
and way how people explain how people run the government makes seem to be more of empire than a democracy especially ONI acting as a shadow government
carmine sleet
An empire isn't an empire because it's ruled by a corrupt leader and has everyone united
Also, not all of humanity is united under the UNSC and ONI aren't controling the government
ONI control the UNSC just as much as MI6 controls the British government, just to use a real world example, which is to say they don't
terse lava
That and for there to be an Empire, though has to be a single or a handful of leaders with The final say
The Covenant was an empire led by the 3 hierarchs
Humanity meanwhile still has a civilian government in place that allows voting and Democracy
jaunty latch
ok
abstract venture
has it ever been stated if mac guns can vary their outputs?
versed helm
There's no reason they wouldn't be able to.
In fact it's almost a certainty as MACs can be used to launch things other than kinetic slugs.
Apparently Infinity's MACs can be used to launch spacecraft.
They can also be used to launch supply packages.
So you wouldn't want to be blasting those out too fast.
keen canopy
"Infinity, requesting one crate of M9 HE-DP grenades at our position ASAP, over"
"Roger, sending it via MAC now" finger slips
abstract venture
yeah makes sense, tho do you remember if its ever explicitly stated?
i vaguely remember a 343 employee saying it to justify the tip of the spear cutscene, tho i cant find it anywhere
versed helm
I don't know of an exact source.
terse lava
Interesting question maybe. Had the covenant found halo earlier in their history, do you think they would have tried to colonize it?
dim roost
versed helm
I think it could well have ended the Covenant.
keen canopy
The Sangheili wouldn't have wanted to at all, that's for sure. I think the Covenant would though, seeing as the San Shyuum were happy to live aboard the Dreadnaught for a while
gilded mason
Regarding the "difficult" time trying to activate the Control Room?
versed helm
After a couple decades of "hm, why can't we turn this thing on?" I assume stuff would have gone down.
That is, if the monitor hadn't taken it upon itself to illuminate them.
keen canopy
Great point
terse lava
For the sake of it, the monitor will allow the covenant to do that, seeing them as new guards
terse lava
Yep
gilded mason
And then:
"W-Wait, why are you all fighting each other? All I said was..."
terse lava
I am chuckling.more at that then I should
But I don't see the idea bringing an end to the covenant
gilded mason
"Oh my, San'Shyuum necks aren't supposed to twist that way, you know..."
terse lava
Wouldn't it be a more logical idea to the covenant would simply be they are not worthy of the journey yet
gilded mason
Assuming the Monitor didn't spill the beans
versed helm
That was not, as I understand it, by design.
terse lava
What makes you say that
versed helm
I thought it was some form of damage that prevented him from disclosing the whole truth to the Covenant.
He only came online briefly and intermittently.
The most recent time he did, he disclosed some pretty hard truths.
terse lava
Far as I know he never suffered damaged but had gone somewhat unhinged
But we know he communicated somewhat with the San shyuum
He taught them
And later he talked to the early covenant a bit
And truth noted the last time mendicant had talked had been multiple ages ago. So he apparently talked again to the covenant later. I think he made the best of his predicament
versed helm
I think you're kinda, inadvertently spinning that, Ado.
The piece of information here is that the time it takes from one activation of Mendicant Bias to the other is multiple ages.
That doesn't indicate anything close to "making the best of."
Did Mendicant not have some degree of interest in looking out for humanity, as seen in the Halo 3 terminals?
terse lava
Oh, that part I was referring to teaching the san shyuuum
versed helm
Would he not have prevented the Covenant's attempted genocide of humanity if he could?
terse lava
Well after he told them of humanity's nature and trying to launch the key ship they clearly dealt with and restrained him
versed helm
Well, Mendicant's intention was to bring the reclaimers to the Ark.
terse lava
Yes
versed helm
If he had been capable of attempting that before the events of CH, he would have done so.
terse lava
True, and yet he doesnt appear to have suffered any real damage after crashing on Janjor Qom.
torpid flare
Hello from March 25th
versed helm
Sup bruh
rare lotus
Did the Prophets of Halo 2 and 3 know that Halo's purpose was to kill all sentient life? Or did the legitimately think, that once activated they were ascended in to god like beings?
versed helm
Ummm
keen canopy
This a tough one where there are a few different theories that work
I personally think Truth knew the whole time
carmine sleet
If Truth knew the complete truth about the rings, it wouldn't have made sense for him to send Tartarus to fire the ring unless he knew Tartarus would fail
keen canopy
Indeed, my idea for that is he thought the Dreadnought would protect him
Either thah or thought he could get to the Ark in time
Which he calls "a shelter from Halo's fire" in 3
keen canopy
The reason I go with this theory is because a lot of things point to Truth leaving High Charity before Tartarus was stopped
Even Mercy knew they were going to Earth
inner basin
Well Mercy did tell Chief that iirc. He didn’t explicitly say it, but it makes sense and isn’t hard to piece that together
keen canopy
So there's no way Truth starts heading to Earth unless he thought
A:The blast won't hurt me in the Dreadnought, and then I'll go to the Ark
Or B: The Great Journey will take time to happen, meanwhile I'll go murder the humans
brittle ruin
or C: The elites or the flood will kill tartarus and it's a convenient way to get rid of the chieftain of the brutes before he gets smart
truth is kind of devious like that
inner basin
You know isn’t the Great Journey them being in Halo’s line of fire and “transcending”, but if they are at the Ark they’re sheltered?
If any of the Covenant species were intelligent they would’ve turned on Truth then and there
keen canopy
Nah I disagree heavily @brittle ruin
There's no way. It was an incredibly close thing at the Control Room
It took the Covenant's most skilled warrior literally returning from the grave
Being teleported to precisely the right place
And it was still incredibly close
inner basin
Also if Johnson had’ve been kept captive/killed then the Arbiter never would’ve got to the Control Room in time
keen canopy
Yea Tartarus ordered them killed seconds before the Elites showed up
inner basin
I guess it makes sense on why Johnson and the Arbiter are buddies in no time
keen canopy
If Tartarus had just let them know a minute or two earlier
Actually never mind that wouldn't make a difference at all
You know what Johnson Banks and Stacker dying might make no difference, the Elites would've just driven the Scarab
The beam rifle taking down his shield bs is just a gameplay mechanic im sure
inner basin
Definitely, Brutes don’t have shields to begin with
keen canopy
Nah Tartarus had them from the Fist of Rukt
brittle ruin
I always thought it was the H2 version of the invulnerability equipment chieftains use in H3
keen canopy
Like pulling and pushing people from quite far away
Actually nvm
It's definitely canon
As Johnson says "his shield's down" etc
inner basin
The pushing and pulling can be explained as it his called a Gravity Hammer after all
keen canopy
Other gravity Hammers have never displayed the ability to do that haha
inner basin
Tartarus did some “upgrades” maybe? Or he got an upgraded version from the base gravity hammer most Brutes get because he was the Chieftain of the Brutes
swift portal
Tartarus got his hammer from his uncle who he killed
pretty sure it was his uncle at least
inner basin
Actually yeah that’s right, I forgot about that
keen canopy
It was the first Gravity Hammer, it was passed down by ruling Chieftains
The Covenant one was based upon it
But yea if something is meantioned in dialogue it's usually canon, so the shields are, however only a beam rifle being able to take them down is gameplay.
versed helm
I call the gravity hammer the stick of shame
inner basin
Why’s that @versed helm?
versed helm
Some brutes do have shields
The gravity hammer guys did in 3
But tartarus was like the brute chieftain so all his stuff was better
No, the gravity hammer in H3 was an attempt to recreate the Fist of Rukt
Tartarus' hammer
I think
terse lava
On the topic of the shield, his uncle was able to take on a massive amount of punishment at harvest. He could have had an indivisible prototype
wet pollen
On the topic of the shield, his uncle was able to take on a massive amount of punishment at harvest. He could have had an indivisible prototype
@terse lava I was about to say that.
Well, the first part.
terse lava
@abstract venturehow else you want to explain how he survived multiple humans shooting at him and getting pinned by a warthog? He wore war chieftain armor and we see the durability of that
Also he was not a nobody, he is given a vessel of his own which was extremely rare for jiralhanae at that time
abstract venture
Chieftan Shields are just that powerful
He was also given a tiny vessel with most of its features stripped and considered obsolete for Elites to use
He was chosen by regret for the mission because of how obscure he was
terse lava
He wasnt chosen for being obscure, he was chosen for being a jiralhanae with cruiser of his own. Only other choice Regret had would have been sangheili
wet pollen
@abstract venturehow else you want to explain how he survived multiple humans shooting at him and getting pinned by a warthog? He wore war chieftain armor and we see the durability of that
@terse lava he did survive, but the warthog injured his leg.
terse lava
Yes, would think even with shields that would just make him safe against projectiles. Not going to protect you from you from a heavy vehicle hitting you
abstract venture
Practically there's not much of a difference
terse lava
Between a bullet and a car?
carmine sleet
I'd say there very much is a difference
terse lava
Agreed, any armor or shield can only do so much
carmine sleet
Like, as someone who has been hit by a vehicle, it ain't nice, but it's very different to a bullet
terse lava
Bit of an off question, would anything really change had thel and the commandos failed in destroying the gas station?
carmine sleet
So long as they killed the Heretic Leader and recovered Spark, not really
terse lava
Thought so, with only one seraph fighter I wasnt sure if the flood could be much of a threat
limpid meadow
For no reason in particular I was rewatching Spartan Ops, and got to episode 8. We know Jul 'Mdama isn't a believer, he just uses fanaticism to his favor. So I have to wonder, was he truly concerned about Halsey running into the artifact in episode 8? Or was he just making a show of things, in truth knowing that a Human would need to enter it in order to recover whatever gift the Librarian had?
wet pollen
Like, as someone who has been hit by a vehicle, it ain't nice, but it's very different to a bullet
@carmine sleet cars do hate you.
terse lava
@limpid meadow I would think he was truly angry as he likely could have gone in himself once the shield went down
Question would be though how she would interact with him
limpid meadow
Maybe. I'd like to think Jul was smart enough to know it wouldn't work for him directly, but I may be giving SpOps too much credit there.
terse lava
Well we have no proof it wouldn't work for hin
He was prevented on going in due to the shield that was taken down by halsey
limpid meadow
Removing the shield required a Human touch, and I highly doubt the Librarian imprint would have given Jul the Janus Key.
carmine sleet
cars do hate you.
@wet pollen Wasn't a car that hit me
terse lava
Yes taking it down did require a human not denying that. Nor am I denying that the librarian would keep the key from him. I am only saying he likely could have gone in once the shield went down and talked with her
limpid meadow
I'm not so sure. Like, he might have gone to see her, but would likely immediately be booted from the system.
terse lava
Perhaps, but she may have been willing to talk to him or keep him there
carmine sleet
Was there anyone other than Halsey and Jul in the room? It's been some time since I saw the cutscenes so I can't remember
terse lava
Rest of his guys
carmine sleet
Ah, ok. Then I'd say it's possible that Jul may have acted like how he did then
limpid meadow
Yeah, that's exactly why I'm wondering.
terse lava
Had he been alone he may have been a. It more..."kind"
limpid meadow
Potentially. He still hates humans. He would have been less theatrical at the very least
terse lava
True
terse lava
Wonder how one properly joins the covenant navy. Would think just a different course in any war college, but the we have warfleet saying seraph pilots hope for the chance to join the "blessed few" on the ground
versed helm
Oh ok
versed helm
It's important to remember that Jul's entire motivation is that he wanted humanity gone.
Everything else is a facade.
He did, however, have some level of respect for us as a threat.
terse lava
Wasnt it mainly because his wife perished in a frigate
versed helm
No. At the beginning of Glasslands he held his views.
His experiences with ONI only deepened his desire. Added a touch of personal vengeance.
terse lava
Good going ONI
versed helm
Hey. He brought it on himself.
inner basin
With the many horrible things ONI have done to Elites as a whole, if they found out, they’ll probably start to fight humanity
Which kinda goes against ONI’s ideology of “doing what’s best for humanity” thing
versed helm
Honestly, though, from this lens, Jul's death is pretty fitting.
terse lava
How so
versed helm
Like, all the basic bois were like "but Arbiter should have killed him," as if they were arch enemies or something.
Truth is, ONI made Jul as a threat, to a greater or lesser extent.
It's fitting that ONI would have him quietly knocked off the board like the pawn he's always been.
gilded mason
Eh...that just sounds...
terse lava
I would not think of him as a pawn seeing as ONI dropped the ball
ONI killed billions anyway with Cortana
versed helm
Hey, he played right into ONI's hands, for the most part.
inner basin
Well we all know ONI has no problem with collateral damage if it doesn’t directly affect them
versed helm
Devastated his own people.
That's what ONI wanted. They wanted a war, he gave them a war.
gilded mason
Against humans
terse lava
You are giving them too much credit
versed helm
Of course Requiem did get a little out-of-hand, but it was nothing beyond the capabilities of the Infinity and the Spartan IVs.
gilded mason
They lost at Requiem, though.
versed helm
For the most part it seems like all he achieved was causing trouble on Sanghelios while he galavanted around the galaxy looking for the next Forerunner toy to hold his position.
Then, as soon as a real threat popped up in the form of Cortana-
terse lava
Nothing? They almost died at requiem
versed helm
👋 Bye Jul, your services are no longer required.
We'll take it from here.
Of course, that fatal message was delivered by individuals with no understanding of the true depth of the situation... but what's more ONI than that?
gilded mason
That just sounds bad
terse lava
Dude...ONI keeps blundering more then doing g good
Let Jul become a power house, lose a shield world, countless humans killed, a city composed by a freed forerunner
versed helm
I mean, this ain't even a theory. It's what happened... from an 
point of view.
Also, you're attributing some of the Didact's work to Jul, there.
gilded mason
Portraying ONI as some OP mastermind feels pretty...boring.
versed helm
They're not.
terse lava
The didact's work is ONI's work
versed helm
They're not in control of Cortana, not were they in control of the Didact.
But the truth is, Jul's story is a sad one.
terse lava
They made her, they allowed Jul to become enough of a problem that he got to requiem
versed helm
He was a simple man with a simple purpose caught up in the webs of those with far more malice and far less honour than he, and ultimately he did more harm to his own people than his true foe.
terse lava
Had ONI been smart, theybcould have supported the arbiter and swords. Rather though they wanna be Cerberus from Mass Effect
terse lava
Oh yes their "nature" they were so good they couldnt save humanity
versed helm
I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not on ONI's side here.
Heck, the only side I'm on in Halo is the side of your average UNSC grunt slogging it in the field.
gilded mason
The way you're writing about it kinda feels like it
limpid meadow
Supporting the Arbiter's side is great in the short term, but what guarantee do they have that he'll stay allied with the UNSC?
versed helm
What I'm doing is emphasizing the tragedy of Jul.
And how hapless he ultimately was.
And how almost serendipitous his demise was... from, as I said, an point of view.
They started him off, they finished him.
gilded mason
but what guarantee do they have that he'll stay allied with the UNSC?
Because the other option is having no confirmed allies at all.
Or no allies that are strong enough to help them when they're in need
versed helm
Who needs allies when all your enemies are weaker than you? - a spook might say.
Of course that spook failed to anticipate the Created.
And the Didact.
But let's be honest, that stuff was kinda left field.
After something like the Halo event I think you assume that it'll be a couple decades before the next crazy thing.
limpid meadow
@gilded mason I think you're misunderstanding me: what guarantee does the UNSC have that the Arbiter will remain an ally? The answer is none
terse lava
What guarantee do we have that ONI will be allies? They have no qualms of hurting their fellow man
limpid meadow
ONI isn't going to try to harm Humanity
versed helm
So, if you can't guarantee an alliance, you don't rely on one.
Which is what ONI was trying to do.
limpid meadow
^^^
versed helm
Chop their greatest competitor in half.
gilded mason
Thing is, you could say that about any ally you might have. They could turn on you, better cut them down.
terse lava
Not even themselves really
limpid meadow
Yeah, and we see modern intelligence agencies spy even on allies
terse lava
Why did the precursors like them again?
limpid meadow
You don't have to agree with ONI, but their actions make sense
versed helm
All we got is a stonkin great ship, a bunch of super soldiers and a few wildcard assets.
terse lava
No you kinda have to agree with ONI or you die
stoic hamlet
You don’t though?
terse lava
Hm? I dont agree with ONI?
versed helm
I think... if you disagree with ONI, that's cool.
If you mess with ONI (and you ain't Lord Hood) then you're in trouble.
limpid meadow
I'm not talking about an in-universe perspective here
terse lava
Dude if you mess with ONI withoutbecen knowing it you are dead
That's what I hate the most. Them being portrayed as this borderline omnipotent organization with fingers in everything
versed helm
That is the nature of covert agencies. But omnipotent doesn't mean infallible. Just look at the precursors.
stoic hamlet
Except you aren’t gonna get black bagged unless you do something moronic, like Giraud.
They’re not stupid
limpid meadow
I don't think they're portrayed as borderline omnipotent at all
stoic hamlet
They literally can’t be
Based off the way Halo works as a universe.
They certainly couldn’t be during the war.
And the few years after it
versed helm
The universe of made of cheese
stoic hamlet
Most of the idea of them being omnipotent came from Hunt the Truth whose main protagonist (and the only person we actually hear from) became a paranoid fringer with a fear of the dark.
Of course they would seem omnipotent to him.
limpid meadow
Yep
versed helm
We're out of crackers gromit
limpid meadow
It's a perception
stoic hamlet
It’s not necessarily a wrong one, per se, but it’s definitely overblown.
What would more likely happen is a local agency would look into someone like Giraud, then if needed hand him over to ONI.
It doesn’t really make sense for ONI to keep tabs on him the way they did, but apparently they did, so.....
versed helm
So what did chief do before the events of halo 1? Like how did he even become the great master Chief before the events of the main halo timeline?
stoic hamlet
It’s described in the books.
versed helm
Haven't read them thats why im asking
stoic hamlet
His rank was given in Silent Storm. An ad-hoc promotion that stuck.
limpid meadow
I'd say it makes sense for them to do so since they reached out to him.
versed helm
Ahh got it
limpid meadow
Anyone they directly hire would likely be heavily surveyed during the period of work
versed helm
Before the events of Halo, I think the most apt way to describe his activities would be "fighting a war."
versed helm
That's... all he did, every minute, every day, for about 27 years.
stoic hamlet
Yup
versed helm
Preparing to fight, recovering from the fight, going to the next fight, making sure his buddies were okay to fight...
limpid meadow
Before Halo CE he wasn’t really special, tbh
And this right here is why the whole "hyper-lethal vector" thing always annoyed me
At least as presented in that ViDoc
stoic hamlet
The only II who could maybe IMO fit that title (if it was real) is Linda
limpid meadow
It was pre-CE. There wasn't much to really justify that designation
Yes, Linda, exactly
versed helm
Linda fanboyism intensifies
limpid meadow
For good reason!
limpid meadow
What tweet?
versed helm
The one where he said that in a draft of Shadows of Reach Kelly was listening to Killer Queen xD
limpid meadow
Niiiiice! I would love that!
versed helm
If only there was enough sick footage of her in-game for the usual suspects to smash together one of their tribute music videos.
limpid meadow
In the 26th century, Queen becomes the new Mozart.
versed helm
Anyway, I was gonna say she's probably the member of Blue I hold in the highest esteem rn.
And she does also have the unique skill of being faster than Keem.
So that's pretty dang hyper-lethal.
stoic hamlet
Small thing I was thinking of the other day, when I saw that new 3D SPI model:
What if ONI were the ones to have the MJOLNIR-clad II’s differentiate themselves?
The II’s initially were the green machines we know and love, but when ONI, and fleet personnel started noticing the little touches on their armour, ONI decided to go all in on the individuality of them so they’d be more recognizable to the public.
While those Spartans operating behind the scenes (like those in SPI) would remain uniform.
Just a thought I had.
versed helm
That makes a lotta sense.
limpid meadow
Agreed
abstract venture
They were wearing their unique armors in collateral Damage though
Which is the 2nd time they ever used mjolnir
stoic hamlet
And in SILENT STORM they were all uniform.
limpid meadow
They were using unique suits as part of Project COBALT. More experimental armors
stoic hamlet
They may have gone between uniform and unique, but by the 2540’s (for example) they were always unique because ONI wanted them to be.
versed helm
Isn't there some indication that certain individual S-IIs had public reputations before the Halo event?
I can't remember any sources but, present company considered, I thought someone might xD
limpid meadow
There is an implication that the Chief at least had a public reputation prior to CE thanks mostly to Petra Janecek
stoic hamlet
We know from Ghosts of Onyx II’s were explicitly used for propaganda
versed helm
And he's the one who's always using the same stock set of armour, too.
stoic hamlet
Kurt has pictures of them in his quarters.
versed helm
Well, there ya have it.
unreal prawn
the covenant used to be cool
stoic hamlet
They.....they still are?
terse lava
They still are and always will be...the original covenant anyway
versed helm
Maybe he meant the original covenant were cool and Jul’s isn’t? Idk.
versed helm
It's resolved then
Going forwards, whatever Covenant-style enemy there is must do more sick dabs.
Yes
gilded mason
based
versed helm
Every time an enemy kills u it proceeds to dab on ur body
gilded mason
👌
feral perch
versed helm
FR tho
terse lava
What about them
fair hazel
Did someone say linda
versed helm
In Infinite I think there exists one of two possibilities
A) Cortana for some reason is now in charge of a Covenant-like militia army
B) The Created will have been diminished to a small faction
The reason why I suggest the latter is some of the language used in the Shadows of Reach description
gilded mason
I hope we finally get to see that concept of the partially "Promethean" Sangheili
terse lava
There was artwork @gilded mason
gilded mason
Yeah, that's what I'm referencing
gilded mason
👍
terse lava
Indeed rip Zuka
cloud trellis
i have to say, the flood imo was boring for the msot part
idk why, but the words just didn't to come live
like fall of reach
stoic hamlet
U WOT?
Actually though it’s best parts are the ones focusing on the other UNSC troops and the Covenant.
cloud trellis
the constant switching of views were jarring
maybe its my fault, for not caring for someone like Mckay
or other people i already know died
since i played the game
only when i read master chief ihn extensive action in combat did it feel good to read it
i thought it was padding to read about other soldiers who don't contribute much
terse lava
I liked seeing the covenant view of the battle from Zuka, Noga, Yayap, and others
gilded mason
Ye
terse lava
And almost forgot, Last Voyage that tied to it
gilded mason
She's cool
stoic hamlet
RIP McKay. Best ODST
cloud trellis
shoot chief = death
cloud trellis
remember the introduction of the flood
some marine had the balls to shot a living legend
turned into flood
is that not jenkins?
was his name mendez?
terse lava
Mendoza
cloud trellis
oh
versed helm
My emotions towards this place and point in time are distinctly negative!
terse lava
Yea jenkins ended up captured by his fellow marines and ultimately his body perished when the truth and reconciliation blew up
cloud trellis
i for got how did it blow up again, when silva ordered an op to take it to fly out
versed helm
Boiiiii, it is with a tedious degree of frequency that you manifest distinctly negative emotions towards places and points in time.
terse lava
Yea, he was warned flood were o board still but ignored that, even was tes living flood captured. McKay decided to crash the vessel to save earth
versed helm
Ok
stoic hamlet
I mean
Tbf
They had no idea The Flood could survive in space
And the jump would have taken a while, even for Covenant drives.
terse lava
Her concern was bringing the vessel to earth with flood
versed helm
You know what they say happens when you assume.
stoic hamlet
The dude was a gloryhound, no doubt about it
stoic hamlet
Yeah, but I don’t necessarily think they couldn’t have cleared the ship.
If needed anyways.
terse lava
It was needed
stoic hamlet
Yeah
terse lava
I question if they could clean it though
Heck they still had covenant commandos to deal with
versed helm
Flood ain't fun to fight in CQC neither.
stoic hamlet
If they had control of the ship overall they could have gone into orbit, explosive decompression the commandos out and the flood at the same time, possibly?
Unlikely it’d work
But it’s an option
versed helm
I think there's danger to be had in second-guessing McKay's decision xD
terse lava
Dont think anyone was 2nd guessing
Problem really was Silva being utterly blind as a dumb gloryhound
versed helm
In the past I've speculated that Silva's mentality was an extreme form of the very mindset that makes ODSTs effective.
Fierce, unrelenting competitiveness. Utter stubbornness.
And a little bit of sadism.
terse lava
So just a dumb nutjob
versed helm
Negative attributes can become very positive ones in violent situations.
Especially when you have to stare split-jawed energy sword-wielding death in the face and send soldiers to do the same.
terse lava
I guess but...its still just utter foolishness
He knew the threat of the flood
Was told by other people and his AI
versed helm
Well, yes. He took it too far. No arguing that.
terse lava
That's my main beef with him
Speaking of marine and flood a question
How long were the marines in the quarantine zone wall anyway? We are led to believe they either got in a bit earlier then the covenant, or right as the shields went down
Yet we see throughout the area massive crates stacked up
gilded mason
Marines are really good at unpacking
versed helm
Is it just the random crates, or do they have any specific labels?
If it's just more body armour and stuff it'd be pretty inexplicable. But arms, respirators, other bits of potentially useful gear I can understand being promptly airlifted in.
terse lava
Well I mean just the size of the crates
One would think it would take time to get therr
versed helm
IaC was pretty close
terse lava
Well no I mean for example
The area you jump into after facing a 2nd enforcer and you entire those fog tainted hallways
You have one large stack of huge crates and even more throughout the rest
Meanwhile, we only see covenant crates in open areas where yes a phantom could stop them off
gilded mason
neur-
terse lava
Close your jaws or I shall bind them shut @gilded mason
gilded mason
lol
keen canopy
I've literally just spend the last month or so working on the Battle of the Quarantine Zone article
terse lava
Why you do this to us bungie!
keen canopy
go read is plz
terse lava
On halopedia?
keen canopy
yea
There's a pretty clear picture of things now
as in the order of events, where and when and why the forces from each side deployed
I also drew up a timeline, but I can't post pictures here rip
terse lava
Good read, I agree with ot
It
Settles what I always figured, thr marines had been there for some time and allowed in by the sentinels
keen canopy
Yea In Amber Clad was at the Sentinel Wall trying to find a way around it even before High Charity arrived
So makes sense that they were able to deploy first
And when the Containment Shield went down, IAC was able to fly straight to the center of the zone, whereas the Phantoms were all forced to land in the outskirts due to Enforcers
terse lava
Still her biggest mistake, should have taken a pelican
keen canopy
Yea the mission was an absolute disaster tbh, maybe Bungie wanted to really drive home that they really needed John.
versed helm
The IAC has the benefit of being able to provide close support in a way a Pelican could never match.
An incredible amount of firepower was there in case it were needed.
bright briar
Did the ship actually land to drop Keyes off?
versed helm
I doubt it, though it is a possibility.
bright briar
Yeah, considering that would've added a lot more risk.
keen canopy
@terse lava very high chance they had no pods left after using them all in the Delta Halo mission
terse lava
Were they all used? @keen canopy
wet pollen
What are you guys talking about?
keen canopy
IAC has 24 pods total, 11 were dropped in the first wave, and there are 13 pods total that can be found. (IIRC, I'll double check those numbers in a sec) So there was definitely a second wave of between 2-13 pods deployed
Some of them could have gone into the numerous lakes, or just landed in places that we don't see in the game
wet pollen
I read the entire thing and still don't understand.
terse lava
Ah, thought it had more pods ok
wet pollen
Halo 2?
terse lava
Mhm
wet pollen
Is that a yes?
terse lava
Yes
terse lava
You have not played halo 2?
wet pollen
Nope.
terse lava
Personally it's my favorite
wet pollen
Then I'll play CE one last time before downloading Halo 2.
I hope my laptop can handle.
It struggles with CE.
Should I even try to open Halo 2?
inner basin
Well those blur cutscenes are pretty nice 👌
wet pollen
That's even worse.
inner basin
But they’re an absolute treat to the eyes
inner basin
If you want specs advice etc for PC your best option might be #644651849647128606
keen canopy
oh to be clear @terse lava the UNSC forces who had the camps and crates and tanks etc were only deployed once the Containment Shield dropped
The Sentinel Wall expedition didn't make it past the inner wall, as we see in Sacred Icon
However the UNSC were deployed in the center of the zone thanks to IAC, and were on the defensive, whereas the Covenant deployed on the outskirts, and the flood took their vehicles and troops and gradually pushed towards the center, taking the UNSC troops and vehicles as well, resulting in the higher concentration of Flood in the center of the Zone as mentioned in dialogue
torpid flare
i am gonna cook sangheili eggs
versed helm
They'd prob taste pretty bad
terse lava
Does work for me @keen canopy
torpid flare
@versed helm why
terse lava
Just realized, was the 2nd phantom that dropped in Rtas and his commando taken out by tartarus?
versed helm
Big eggs usually dont taste good
torpid flare
how could sangheili live to 150 to 175 years
terse lava
Good health and technology
torpid flare
darn it big alien alligators live longer than us
terse lava
laughs in wort
terse lava
Cute
inner basin
The whole food sabotaging thing wasn’t the best idea imo, it’s also not very subtle
terse lava
Its utterly foolish
inner basin
I did like the supplying of ‘Telcam angle though
It’s also a little more subtle with most of the blame being able to be passed on to Kig-Yar suppliers (at least iirc)
gilded mason
how could sangheili live to 150 to 175 years```
More than that, evenNizat was around 200-ish during Oblivion and still in top shape
terse lava
Hm? A DOB was given for him?
terse lava
There's no source for that
gilded mason
Yeah
torpid flare
enjoy the guess of some stupid monkey with brain damhage
torpid flare
huh
gilded mason
lol
torpid flare
@terse lava @gilded mason then how old are you
torpid flare
@gilded mason this is prime time to cook some Sangheili
gilded mason
🤔
torpid flare
lol
terse lava
?
torpid flare
from the age of 30-60, most sangheili hide from us because of their juicy meat
terse lava
Careful, your jiralhanae is showing
torpid flare
all sangheili are in danger
terse lava
Nah, you are thinking of the kig-yar. Jiralhanae found out they taste just like chicken and have been hunting them since
keen canopy
Hey Eternal, funny thing
gilded mason
Poor Kiggies
keen canopy
The other day I see this "SonOfTheEternal" guy on halostory spouting some questionable stuff about Spartan IIIs
I almost felt like @ing you and telling you to control your son
gilded mason
I almost felt like @ing you and telling you to control your son
lol
keen canopy
it's even better because EternalCanadian is like a walking Spartan-III encyclopedia
terse lava
Heh
stoic hamlet
I try. But I don’t claim to be an encyclopedia.
Maybe a mini pocket book, but that’s ‘bout it.
versed helm
The thing about pocket books is that they're there when you need them
stoic hamlet
Feel free to @ me if you want, I don’t really mind, I don’t use reddit much anymore aside fro Halo and 40K stuff anyways.
versed helm
Unlike the nonexistent Halo encyclopedias of the last few years.
terse lava
Just realized something. Before the San shyuum civil war, they all believed in the great journey. However they wouldn't mess with forerunner tech, which would be required, the halos. How did they and and later stoics think they could ascend?
versed helm
Religion tends to have little inbuilt contradictions like that.
Perhaps they assumed that it'd be different with the rings. That the way would be made clear, in-keeping with the Forerunners' plans.
This kinda ties in with the point I made the other day about most members of the Covenant living their lives without really thinking much about the Great Journey.
It's like the Christian concept of the rapture.
gilded mason
Yeah
terse lava
Maybe and you have a point. It's things like that that make me wish 343 would dive more into the covenant Lore
versed helm
Amen.
stoic hamlet
^^^^
gilded mason
^^^^
terse lava
At the very least reveal the entirety of the writ of Union
I have grown so tired of a human centric storytelling
stoic hamlet
How am I supposed to enjoy watching them die by the hundreds of billions if I don’t know their history?
gilded mason
wude
torpid flare
@gilded mason Sangheili are a hinge-head
gilded mason
Orta prefers Squidhead
terse lava
Split chin you peasant @torpid flare
torpid flare
@terse lava ok Boss flappy mouths you devil
stoic hamlet
Their proper term is Bullet Holders.
Because they hold all he bullets that are fired at their twitching corpse. So nice of them!
gilded mason
wude x2
stoic hamlet
The Covenant were so nice they decided to pitch in in their entirety. We humans have a surplus of bullets, you see.
terse lava
Ah very well, still feels unfair though
We hold all your bullets, and yet none of you can hold our plasma when we need you to. You just vanish
gilded mason
eyy
stoic hamlet
What? No! It’s equal opportunity, you understand.
You just give us too much, there’s a ratio to follow, you know.
terse lava
But not even a marine can hold a single plasma bolt, we figured you know more people more plasma
But you proved us wrong
The worst part is you never give it back either you just go away with it
stoic hamlet
Yes well, we try our best you see, but we can’t all be as good as you.
gilded mason
I believe in you
stoic hamlet
Awwww, thanks!
terse lava
👍
gilded mason
👍
stoic hamlet
I’ll keep that in mind the next time I get offered some Plasma.
terse lava
charge the laser Ostral
torpid flare
B L O C K
gilded mason
I thought you had it
terse lava
Unggoy must have taken it
gilded mason
Dang Unggoy
terse lava
Think the unggoy would have been better off had humanity found them first?
terse lava
Very true
torpid flare
@terse lava @gilded mason
gilded mason
What
terse lava
Hm?
torpid flare
@terse lava @gilded mason henlo
gilded mason
Stop
terse lava
The spam is getting a tad annoying
torpid flare
ok
versed helm
You two seem to attract a lot of affection from random newbies
gilded mason
lol
terse lava
I blame our good looks
gilded mason
Orta was on the cover of Covenant Monthly
terse lava
Heh
torpid flare
Hello from March 26
keen canopy
old news I know, but I think it's awesome how Halo Infinite's E3 2018 trailer seemingly referenced Halo CE's E3 2000 trailer https://youtu.be/T8y9vyqCnd4?t=223
versed helm
It always strikes me as crazy how much content there seems to be in pre-release Halo CE builds.
Compared to the final game, I mean.
gilded mason
Oh?
Got a link to some stuff?
Also, what gotcha filtered the first time ya tried?
versed helm
On the second count, references to male genitalia in order to emphasize the courage of the marines in that trailer.
On the first count, I just meant like, the proto-gauss hog and spectre and stuff in that old trailer build
gilded mason
Ah
keen canopy
Yea, Bungie were really good at cutting
torpid flare
Why did the flamethrower got removed in campaign, or perhaps why did the fuel rod guns detonate in Halo CE?
terse lava
Guessing the flame thrower was removed as it was too dangerous. You burn flood and they would keep charging you
Fuel rod, safety feature to prevent non covenant from using it
torpid flare
I was thinking about the fail safe measure like the energy sword or sentential beam
terse lava
Pretty much
versed helm
Does the SOS have an active council?
gilded mason
Maybe. But we don't know. Because we know basically nothing about them after all these years. =/
terse lava
Tragic
gilded mason
It's honestly pretty annoying.
versed helm
343 needs to step up their Encyclopedia game
gilded mason
Ye
versed helm
Hey, @terse lava, @gilded mason - interesting thing I wanted to check with you guys about. In Halo 5 on Reunion, the first elite Blue Team encounters exclaims "this is the land promised by the prophets!"
I was wondering if the implications of that might extend to Truth's plan in Halo 3 and the Ark.
Any thoughts?
keen canopy
ooooooooo nice thinking
versed helm
I think it means 343 have probably devised a rationale for Truth and prophets that they're using to inform bits of dialogue relating to the Covenant religion and the Halo event.
keen canopy
You're probably right about that I reckon. It would be so nice to have a definitive answer for Truth's motives in 2 & 3.
inner basin
Particularly 3, he just didn’t seem as cunning and menacing but more delusional in 3
late sorrel
Ok i need someone else's opinion on this,
What exactly is the difference between the Paris-class and the strident-class? all i know is that stridents are post war designs with shields compared to the paris but is that really all?
keen canopy
might get a better answer to that one over on the Halopedia discord
inner basin
Well I can give a few comparisons, firstly, and the obvious one, the design of the frigates are entirely different, the Paris-Class are more sleek, whereas the Strident-Class are more thick and bulky. Secondly, they are manufactured by different manufacturers, the Paris-Class is manufactured by SinoViet Heavy Machinery, whereas the Strident-Class is manufactured by Aerofabrique SA. As for the weaponry and troop complement, that’s out of my league and like Eezy suggested, the Halopedia Discord would be a better bet.
late sorrel
where would i find the invite link for that
terse lava
@versed helm I have pondered over that comment for years. I figure that, the sangheili and unggoy/kig-yar in Jul's group never fully shook off the idea of the great journey. They only saw the current hierarchs as liers and the rings as false, but figured the journey itself could be achieved via the guardian.
inner basin
@late sorrel This should work https://www.halopedia.org/Main_Page/Discord
warm ridge
@inner basin In Halo 3 it's more or less explained due to him probably going insane + in combination with him being infected by the Flood.
During Halo 2 when you're chasing down Truth, he somehow got infected by the Flood. We don't really know specifically how, but it's assumed he breathed in Flood spores that lead to his infection at one point.
You can even hear the Gravemind talk through his voice in Halo 2, and in Halo 3.
limpid meadow
When did the Gravemind speak through Truth in Halo 2?
I only recall that happening in Halo 3
inner basin
I don’t think that’s the case. Firstly, if he was infected by the Flood in Halo 2 he never would’ve been allowed by the Gravemind to leave High Charity, let alone go to Earth, taking the portal to the Ark then being able to start the activation of the Halo array. So it’s absolutely ridiculous to me how he apparently is infected in Halo 2. To me, I believe and interpreted that he was infected in Halo 3 during the push to the control panel in The Covenant as the Flood swarmed him and the Brutes
limpid meadow
As for the whole "he went insane", that's never confirmed or denied, it's just fan speculation to explain the different characterization we saw in Truth in Halo 3
inner basin
Just for the record, I never said he was insane but I did say he seems more delusional than his cunning and menacing demeanour in Halo 2
warm ridge
@limpid meadow Happened on the mission High Charity, finding it now.
inner basin
Actually I think you’re right with the Gravemind using Truth’s voice, but that was the Gravemind’s manipulation, it wasn’t Truth
You can think of it as being similar to the Gravemind manipulating Cortana’s voice in Halo 3
warm ridge
@inner basin Also, that's false. Flood infection when breathed in by spores is insanely slow. We're talking days, weeks, months before it fully infects you at all.
We also don't know that Truth possibly did to negate the effects, but it became quite obvious his state was deteriorating massively when you last see him in Halo 3, with the flood infection taking full effect.
The Flood never "swarmed him and the brutes", any and all Brutes that were protecting Truth ended up being killed on the last path way. You can see the dead bodies of both everywhere.
Truth is then laying down, exhausted due to the gravity of the Ark not being suited for his fragile body (his chair likely kicked off the pedestal by Miranda flying the Pelican in). San'Shyuum aren't strong at all, and can barely stand on a planet with gravity similar to Earth's.
@limpid meadow https://youtu.be/O-K9AEs4M8c?t=652 Also happens on 12:34 if you wanna listen, it's quite clearly Truth's voice.
limpid meadow
That's just the Gravemind speaking over High Charity's PA system
warm ridge
The only person who had access to High Charity's PA system was Truth, the Gravemind wasn't fully formed at all on High Charity when these happened either. This is why you never hear him speak to you directly at all.
inner basin
No they most definitely were flooded by the flood as the Arbiter says that the Flood are scaling the far walls of the citadel while Chief and him are making their way in and it’s why the Brutes dead near the control panel are re-animated after the array is stopped from firing. As for the Flood spores, Truth was not exposed to them at the time he was moving through High Charity the infection was not severe enough to where the flood spores can be created in the air
limpid meadow
I can't imagine any reason the Gravemind wouldn't be able to access the PA system on High Charity, especially given that it had absorbed Regret by then
warm ridge
again..The Gravemind was not fully formed on High Charity at all. They were spreading fast, but no Gravemind was present, with his body still being on Installation 05. He rebuilt himself on High Charity, just like he was doing on Installation 04B in H3.
limpid meadow
That the Gravemind wasn't fully formed doesn't seem relevant
warm ridge
and no, this didn't happen in a manner of a 1 hour either.
inner basin
With no Gravemind present, that clearly points out that it can’t have been transformed into a Flood lair when Truth was moving through it
Hence no Flood spores meaning your point is null
warm ridge
Gravemind was present, on Installation 05, not High Charity.
again, the Gravemind had to rebuild itself on High Charity, which probably took days.
limpid meadow
The Gravemind is where ever the Flood is
That it didn't have a full body is irrelevant. it can take dedicated control of any Flood form.
warm ridge
and he had 0 access to high charity's PA system, which again, proves my point. He was speaking through Truth quite clearly..
inner basin
It wouldn’t of took days for the Gravemind to form himself on HC anyways
brittle ruin
yeah I'm pretty sure the gravemind doesn't have to be fully formed on high charity to get its voice heard
limpid meadow
You're assuming he had no access
warm ridge
@brittle ruin It does through High Charities PA system which only Truth had access to.
brittle ruin
you don't know that
limpid meadow
He had already absorbed a High Prophet. I'd say that's going to get him a lot of access (never mind he's the smartest thing in the galaxy).
warm ridge
lmfao I do because no one else spoke on it at all.
brittle ruin
you saw how easily cortana went through high charity's systems
limpid meadow
That's not evidence of anything
That Truth was the only one speaking (other than the Gravemind) means Truth was the only one using it (other than the Gravemind).
I'll grant you this: that the Gravemind says "We exist together now. Two corpses in one Grave" could be interpretted as the Gravemind having some influence over Truth. That may have even been the intent back in 2004. But as @inner basin pointed out, if the Gravemind had that kind of control, he wouldn't have allowed Truth to leave.
brittle ruin
I've always heard it as the gravemind telling the people of high charity that's they're going to be one with the flood
warm ridge
cortana went through the systems so easily because she already had access to it, and tons of knowledge on how to bypass Covenant systems. Inn fact, she was created to do just that.
The Gravemind on the other hand wasn't even fully on High Charity. As I already said, it takes days for a Gravemind to fully rebuild itself. Around 24 hours for a Proto-Gravemind to form in order to speak through the systems at all.
brittle ruin
or, since truth is lying about "mercy is at my side, dispensing his wise council", could be the gravemind responding that mercy is also part of him now
the mercy line was right before the "we exist together" line
warm ridge
@limpid meadow The problem with this is only Truth had access to PA's systems, along with the activation index. You also need the chair, which was either taken by Truth or knocked off and destroyed from impact from the fall below. The chair is no where to be seen when Chief pulls the Pod infector off of him.
Also, as I already said, Truth was infected during the events of H2 somehow. This is how the Gravemind spoke over the intercom at all.
brittle ruin
again you're doing a lot of assumptions here
also, brutes use the PA system all day long during the Gravemind mission, not just truth
warm ridge
"a lot of assumptions" where?
limpid meadow
The problem with this is only Truth had access to PA's systems
You keep saying this but there's no evidence of it
Truth was infected during the events of H2 somehow. This is how the Gravemind spoke over the intercom at all.
Say it all you want, that doesn't make it true
brittle ruin
you also keep saying truth was infected during H2 as a matter of fact, with exactly no evidence underlying it
limpid meadow
If that's your headcanon, fine, but don't try to push it as fact
warm ridge
Except it is fact, even GeneralKidd basically explained how Truth was infected in H2 lol.
by again, Flood spores.
@brittle ruin doesn't explain how he's infected in Halo 3, or how in Halo 2 the Gravemind spoke through Truth's voice. Which, what I provided explains perfectly.
It also explains his erratic behavior in Halo 3
brittle ruin
you do realize the flood is all over the place by the time you reach truth in H3
again, assumption that the gravemind speaks through truth's voice in H2
warm ridge
you also realize the Brutes protected truth that entire time, right?
with both Arbiter and Chief killing them all.
brittle ruin
the same brutes that are dead when you reach him?
inner basin
^ Exactly
brittle ruin
with flooded corpses all around?
warm ridge
you also realize no Flood pod infectors are seen around Truth at all, right?
he literally never got touched by one.
brittle ruin
flood popcorns are all around the last portion of the bridge did you even play that mission
warm ridge
Nor did he get touched by any other Flood, as can be seen where he is laying, with no Flood forms surrounding him at all.
in fact, he was laying down extremely close to the spot where we last saw him in the Halo 3 cut scene when he shot Miranda in the back/after he activated the Halo rings.
inner basin
Nighterlev if you want this to be your head canon like Toa said, that’s fine, but trying to push it onto everyone else is not okay. The majority here have already disagreed with the arguments you’ve put forward (with little proof to show for your arguments too)
warm ridge
not a single flood popcorn was around the bridge when you walk over to Truth, just dead bodies of Brutes, Grunts, and Flood forms. The flood pop corns followed you.
@inner basin There's no head canon going around here at all, I basically just showed you guys he was infected in Halo 2 and now you're both denying it lol
denying actual proof is head canon if you wanna take that route.
inner basin
You haven’t shown anything for why he was infected in Halo 2 because the points we’ve put forward disproving you, you keep ignoring
warm ridge
"for why he was infected in halo 2"
I literally said we don't know when specifically he got infected, but Flood spores were flying all over High Charity, with Truth likely breathing them in at one point.
humble yacht
General Kidd is not an authority of halo canon any more than people in this server
limpid meadow
even GeneralKidd basically explained how Truth was infected in H2 lol
No offense to GeneralKidd, but a YouTuber saying something doesn't make it true.
how in Halo 2 the Gravemind spoke through Truth's voice
Citation needed. And no, you haven't proven this at all
warm ridge
I just brought him up because I've been explaining this to people for a while and he explained it pretty well.
warm ridge
@limpid meadow https://ptb.discordapp.com/channels/471722331820130324/471742399249514506/692733262287863830
I mean I kinda did but ok
limpid meadow
No you didn't
carmine sleet
Not everyone is going to go watch a video because you linked it
limpid meadow
You provided a link to a video that doesn't prove anything other than both Truth and the Gravemind spoke over the High Charity PA system
humble yacht
Bruh that’s not Gravemind using truth’s voice, that’s just truth
limpid meadow
And then you keep insisting that Truth is the only one with access to the PA system but, again, there's no proof of that
humble yacht
There’s proof against it
limpid meadow
^^^
warm ridge
Truth speaking, with the Gravemind speaking through Truth. Pretty much what happened.
warm ridge
this happened again in Halo 3 so, literally identical.
limpid meadow
@warm ridge Prove it
humble yacht
It’s not identical
limpid meadow
That it happens in Halo 3 has no bearing on what's happening in Halo 2
warm ridge
@limpid meadow I already showed you a video with proof, what else do I need to show?
carmine sleet
It seems highly unlikely that only Truth would have access anyway, given that PA systems are meant to be used for public announcements, having only one person having access would be highly impractical, especially if the one person who did have access was incapacitated in some way and needed to make an announcement
humble yacht
The gravemind in H3 didn’t use truth’s voice. It competed with truth in his own body
limpid meadow
A video with actual proof would be nice
A video showing Truth speaking on the PA followed by Gravemind speaking on the PA isn't proof
warm ridge
Dude, it's literally the Gravemind, using Truth's own body, when Truth was speaking over the PA. The music even implies it.
humble yacht
There is a huge hole in the theory that truth breathed in spores on High Charity
carmine sleet
Gonna be honest, I thought Gravemind was speaking through telepathy in that moment
humble yacht
^ that could be
carmine sleet
And Truth was obviously using the PA
limpid meadow
it's literally the Gravemind, using Truth's own body, when Truth was speaking over the PA. Where's the proof?
Again, Truth using the PA and then the Gravemind using the PA isn't proof of anything other than both having access to the PA system
warm ridge
"huge hole in that theory that truth breathed in spores on High Charity"
Where's the hole?
humble yacht
Truth was with Tartarus the whole time while running through High Charity. If Truth breathes in spores, then Tartarus did too. However, Tartarus almost activates a Halo. If not for the Arbiter, the flood would have died
carmine sleet
The fact that two characters spoke one after another without us seeing what they were doing is definitely not proof Truth was infected in Halo 2
limpid meadow
^^^
humble yacht
If the flood had control of Truth, then they’d have control of Tartarus, and wouldn’t have let him activate I05
warm ridge
Tartarus also died relatively shortly after by the Arbiter/has a far more robust body then Truth.
inner basin
But how could the Gravemind talk through Truth if Truth was infected by Flood spores as you say in Halo 2, which also as you say take a long time (now that second part I’m not sure off for fact)
humble yacht
He still activated the ring
warm ridge
and also basically went just as insane as Truth was when you think about it.
limpid meadow
No
warm ridge
being extremely deep into the whole "forerunners are gods" at the very end of it.
humble yacht
When you’re controlled by the flood, you don’t do things that can destroy the flood
limpid meadow
Tartarus was no more insane at the start of H2 as he was at the end
humble yacht
You do things that help the flood
warm ridge
Doesn't explain why Truth activated all the Halo rings, and expressed deep regret when they got deactivated, along with still believing in the great journey. He even thought he himself was a god.
limpid meadow
What?
humble yacht
It explains it perfectly
limpid meadow
What about Truth activating the rings needs explaining?
humble yacht
Because truth wasn’t infected until after the flood show up in the ark control room
warm ridge
With the Halo rings being activated and killing 99% of the Flood's food source? Idk how that'd help. Again, he wanted them to stay activated, even when we saw Flood tentacles coming out of his face.
limpid meadow
Truth wasn't infected at that point
humble yacht
He wasn’t trying to help the flood because he wasn’t infected
carmine sleet
Truth being upset the rings were deactivated makes sense as he wanted to light the rings. If he was under the control of the Gravemind in that moment, it wouldn't make sense for him to want to activate the rings
warm ridge
So you're telling me he wasn't infected even though Flood tentacles were coming out of his face, despite clearly being infected in H2, and H3.
warm ridge
and still wanting the rings to be activated, along with believing in the great journey, and even thinking he himself was a god at the very end of it before Arbiter killed him.
humble yacht
That’s called “partial assimilation”
He wasn’t fully assimilated when he was infected
warm ridge
Which started in H2, because Flood spore infection takes quite a while, it doesn't happen instantly.
warm ridge
from being infected by Flood spores? It does.
carmine sleet
and still wanting the rings to be activated, along with believing in the great journey, and even thinking he himself was a god at the very end of it before Arbiter killed him.
@warm ridge The Flood wasn't making himself believe that he would be a god, that was from before he got infected
limpid meadow
While Flood spores take longer than other methods of infection, it doesn't take a month
warm ridge
These aren't pod infectors.
limpid meadow
It takes a few minutes
humble yacht
Pod infectors take seconds. Spore infections take minutes to hours
warm ridge
and Truth never got scratched or touched by the Flood at all. All we know is he breathed in microscopic Flood spores.
inner basin
Well we don’t know that
humble yacht
Spore infections don’t lay dormant for months
limpid meadow
Even if it were to take days, it certainly wouldn't take a month
warm ridge
funny thing is Halo 2, to Halo 3 isn't months either. It's about a month, and we have no idea what precautions Truth took to prevent him from being infected/slow the infection rate.
humble yacht
Also you never see truth and flood spores in the same room in Halo 2
limpid meadow
@inner basin We actually do have an idea of how long spores take because of "The Mona Lisa" short story
humble yacht
He was constantly ahead of the infection
inner basin
@limpid meadow I was talking about the scratches or being touched by the Flood
warm ridge
Except he wasn't constantly ahead of it at all, the entire city was engulfed in Flood spores, so was the dreadnaught by the time Truth was able to leave.
limpid meadow
He was ahead of it
humble yacht
He was ahead of it
carmine sleet
funny thing is Halo 2, to Halo 3 isn't months either. It's about a month, and we have no idea what precautions Truth took to prevent him from being infected/slow the infection rate.
@warm ridge Toa didn't say that there were months between Halo 2 and 3
humble yacht
That’s why the pod infectors didn’t get to the landing platform until after him
Seconds ahead is still ahead
And pod infectors travel faster than spores
warm ridge
That's also why when Truth was speaking over the PA, which happened after he left the landing platform, the Gravemind spoke through his voice due to at one point, he breathed in Flood spores.
humble yacht
Nope
warm ridge
Like I already said, by the time Truth left in the Forerunner dreadnaught, the entire city was engulfed in them. The city was in chaos.
limpid meadow
the Gravemind spoke through his voice due to at one point This never happens in Halo 2
humble yacht
This is starting to border on misinformation btw
warm ridge
It's literally not, I'm just repeating the same points.
humble yacht
It’s fine to have theories but don’t present theories as canon
limpid meadow
by the time Truth left in the Forerunner dreadnaught, the entire city was engulfed in them. Indeed, but Truth got to the ship well before the city was engulfed
warm ridge
@limpid meadow Except it does happen in Halo 2, again, I already showed video proof.
carmine sleet
The only time that the Gravemind spoke through Truth was in Halo 3, right before Truth died. The only Prophet he spoke through in Halo 2, was Regret. But that happened on the ring, not in High Charity
humble yacht
That’s not video proof
limpid meadow
@warm ridge No you haven't
warm ridge
I can link it again.
humble yacht
Don’t
limpid meadow
Your link didn't prove anytihng
warm ridge
denying proof as usual
humble yacht
Can’t deny proof if it isn’t proof
limpid meadow
lol
warm ridge
That's just denying proof with extra steps.
limpid meadow
There's no proof, so there's nothing to deny
limpid meadow
That which is present without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
carmine sleet
What about 1337
warm ridge
So there's no proof about how Truth got infected by the Flood at all, gotcha.
limpid meadow
Not in Halo 2, no
humble yacht
Yep
carmine sleet
The proof is that Truth got infected during the mission, The Covenant, from Halo 3
humble yacht
No proof. Even in halo 3, we don’t know if he was infected by scratch or spore inhalation
warm ridge
Except he didn't @carmine sleet
limpid meadow
Except he did
carmine sleet
We don't know exactly how he got infected but we know he got infected during that mission in Halo 3
humble yacht
Yep
warm ridge
Except he never got infected on that mission in Halo 3, he wasn't even touched by a single Flood anything at all.
humble yacht
Sure buddy 🙄
warm ridge
The only amount of touch he got was from Johnson who was supposedly also infected but whatever infection he had, laid dormant. If you wanna go that far.
humble yacht
Oh boi
carmine sleet
Just because we don't see something happen, doesn't mean it doesn't happen
limpid meadow
We never see how he's infected, but he's pretty clearly infected
humble yacht
You are just so misinformed it’s not even funny
carmine sleet
Johnson definitely didn't infect Truth
warm ridge
I just said "If you wanna go that far"
He wasn't infected in Halo 3, plain and simple lol.
humble yacht
He was, plain and simple
carmine sleet
Only the fact is he was
split summit
when truth got infectited he was stabed by the Arbiter
limpid meadow
Jeez man...
warm ridge
comment got deleted?
humble yacht
Literally is
warm ridge
so anything involving Truth being infected at all is 100% unknown?
humble yacht
This convo has run its course so please move on and in the future, don’t spread misinformation. Thanks!
warm ridge
alright so we don't know how he got infected, and anyone claiming he got infected in halo 2, or halo 3, is spreading misinformation. Gotcha.
limpid meadow
These are the facts as we know them: Between activating the Halo array and being killed by the Arbiter, Truth was infected by the Flood.
warm ridge
Toa, read what Chimera just said.
limpid meadow
Anyone claiming as a fact that he got infected in Halo 2 is spreading misinformation.
humble yacht
Nighterlev. If you’re gonna be difficult on purpose, you’ll just be muted
warm ridge
and Halo 3 apparently.
limpid meadow
Have all the headcanon you want. Don't present it as fact
warm ridge
None of what I presented was head canon, just explaining why he's so erratic in behavior in the entirety of Halo 3.
humble yacht
That’s called a theory
limpid meadow
For example: it's my headcanon that Naomi-010 was part of Spartan Team Beta-Red during the Fall of Reach, maybe even Beta-Red Actual. But that's just a theory
warm ridge
It's my head canon that Reach the game never happened and Halo TFOR book is what actually happened.
limpid meadow
Cool
warm ridge
Yes, I already know what head canon is, no need to explain it.
limpid meadow
Good. So if your headcanon is that Truth was infected during Halo 2, that's fine. Just don't present it as fact.
inner basin
My head canon is that some Spartan-IIIs from Beta Company who were not accounted for landing, actually never landed on the planet to begin with during Op: Torpedo. I know some have disagreed with this already and I’m fine with that
split summit
It's my head canon that Reach the game never happened and Halo TFOR book is what actually happened.
reach the game and the book tell one side of a spartan 3 and the book is telling the side of a spartan 2 @warm ridge
humble yacht
I don’t think there is another point trying to be reasonable with this user, Rune
limpid meadow
@inner basin Ooh, I'd love to hear more about that!
split summit
ohk
warm ridge
@split summit as for TFOR, that was just a example, I already know the explanations 343i has given to attempt to explain the whole situation between Reach the game, and TFOR book.
split summit
nvm
warm ridge
Halo Canon made a video that explained the time lines pretty well actually, 2 videos in fact.
humble yacht
You mean Toa Freak
split summit
huh
carmine sleet
Shadow of Intent did happen between Halo 3 and 4
warm ridge
@split summit https://www.halopedia.org/Post-Covenant_War_conflicts
has a lot of stuff here but not everything.
inner basin
So it goes as this. I was doing a little research on Halopedia and reading the article of Operation: Torpedo. After landing, 9 Spartan-IIIs were unaccounted for with no trace of their drop pods. What I think happened is that they missed their landing zone and missed the surface, possibly due to the weather and interference in the atmosphere. I think they may have been recovered later after the battle, but their survival was kept a secret (or maybe it wasn’t but we don’t know as it’ll likely never be addressed). I think that speculating about things like this is fun and it’s why I like headcanon so much.
limpid meadow
Kilo-5 (Glasslands, The Thursday War, Mortal Dictata)
Last Light
Shadow of Intent
Retribution
Hunters in the Dark
humble yacht
Those are books, Rune
limpid meadow
Halo: Fractures has a few stories set between Halo 3 and 4.
Halo: Spartan Assault is set in 2554, in that period
split summit
il go a read them on adudible
limpid meadow
Oh, Halo: New Blood is another
humble yacht
Oh yeah
split summit
dose anyone have halo battle born ?
limpid meadow
Yep
warm ridge
Isn't Halo New blood after Halo 4 though?
humble yacht
... yes. That’s what we’re talking about
limpid meadow
New Blood is 2555 at the latest, though the story jumps around the timeline
carmine sleet
I have both the Battleborn novels sat two meters away from me, just need to read them
limpid meadow
Halo 4 is July 2557. New Blood is 2555
warm ridge
need to look up on dates for new blood but I thought it was after h4
humble yacht
Thanks toa
limpid meadow
Aria works too
humble yacht
:/
warm ridge
ik when H4 takes place, was just confused about when New blood took place.
limpid meadow
I figured I'd put the date for everyone's sake, just in case
We have a guy asking about stories between those games. Dates help 🙂
inner basin
When did Spartan Ops take place? Wasn’t it a couple months after Halo 4’s campaign?
humble yacht
Yes
split summit
Halo 4 is July 2557. New Blood is 2555
@warm ridge 2555
warm ridge
2558 I think.
Halo 5 happens more or less immediately after the end of Spartan Ops.
humble yacht
Maybe more than a few months
limpid meadow
6 months after Halo 4. February 2558
inner basin
Ah okay. I just couldn’t remember
Dates are something I’ve always struggled with in Halo
limpid meadow
No hard start or end date, but it all seems to take place within that month
warm ridge
however long it took the Infinity to slipspace jump at the end of Spartan Ops, to the beginning of Halo 5. More or less "immediately" after in that sense, but slipspace jumps can take months so.
limpid meadow
Escalation issue one starts in early March and is just after SpOps
Slipspace used to take month. Post war and certainly by 2557, they're pretty quick.
warm ridge
does Halo 5 have a date as to when the Infinity got out of slipspace at the beginning?
limpid meadow
The departure for and arrival at Requiem at the start of SpOps is implied to be the same day. A few hours jump.
warm ridge
oh.
inner basin
I mean a Forerunner engine probably helps
limpid meadow
@warm ridge I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think we see it in slipspace until the end of the game
split summit
can i add something ?
limpid meadow
Go for it
inner basin
Ofc Rune
limpid meadow
And Nighterlev, Halo 5 starts around October 23rd, 2558 (that's the date for the first Blue Team mission anyway)
warm ridge
oh yea we never did see the Infinity exit slipspace, huh. Just enter it at the end of Halo 5.
Idk what I'm remembering but I thought we saw the Infinity exit slipspace above Earth at one point at the beginning of H5.
limpid meadow
Only enter, as I recall
We can say that it only take about a day to go from Earth to Sanghelios though (though Infinity was jumping around for a time before heading to Sanghelios)
split summit
for halo 3 when you look it up like the character's theres a Arbiter then you move more down theres Thel 'Vadam and next to master chief there's spartan
inner basin
The Halo 5 ending does have the Infinity over Earth, but it enters slipspace to escape Cortana and the Guardians. That might be what you’re thinking of lev
humble yacht
What do you mean, Rune?
split summit
humble yacht
That’s just a google search
limpid meadow
That's just Google being Google
humble yacht
It’s going to return a bunch of entries and search results
limpid meadow
If you want a list of characters, I'd recommend using Halopedia
inner basin
That’s just some Spartan-III conceptual art. It may be put there likely due to Spartan-III (3) and Halo 3. The 3’s match up. Likely due to what Chimera said
split summit
ok thanks im just confused
warm ridge
https://www.halopedia.org/2558 trying to go through all the different events here after spartan ops is a mess. The Infinity apparently returned to earth more then once, along with a ton of other things before Halo 5 even started.
humble yacht
Arbiter is technically just a title, Thel is the latest Arbiter
And a Chief is one of many Spartans
limpid meadow
There's a huge period of time between Spartan Ops and Halo 5. A good 8 months.
warm ridge
@inner basin also I think what I was thinking of was probably seen in the Escalation books, think I got myself confused with other things that didn't happen in Halo 5. The time line link I posted of everything that happened in 2558 explained it for me.
inner basin
Well it was just a shot in the dark lol
split summit
what
warm ridge
so apparently the entirety of Halo 5 happened in under a month.
warm ridge
somewhere between Oct. 17th and Oct. 23rd (Fireteam Osiris mission)
and Oct. 23rd to Oct. 28th.
actually that's probably more like under 2 weeks tops.
inner basin
IIRC the events that happened in CE were shorter than a month
split summit
is halo 3 odst happening during halo 3 or 2 ?
warm ridge
if we're talking like Oct. 20th to the 28th, that's just a week and 2 days lol
humble yacht
Most halo games take place over a short period
warm ridge
@split summit halo 2 3rd mission is when it starts, ODST then ends somewhere near/around the mission "The Storm" in Halo 3.
inner basin
Well not an awful lot happened in Halo 5. Now don’t take this the wrong way that’s not a bad thing but missions were extended. I don’t know if that explanation helps as it’s hard to describe
split summit
@warm ridge ohk
humble yacht
At least the state of affairs at the end of 5 was different than the beginning
warm ridge
@inner basin Not a lot of stuff really happens in any of the Halo games at all, Halo 3 was the shortest of them all for play time, and the events that happened could've been summed up to just a few days if it wasn't for the month long trip to the Ark.
I'm just surprised Halo 5 is that short at all in the Halo time line, what with the traveling to all the different places due to slipspace. Infinity must be super fast.