That far back? Maybe dead.
#lore-and-universe
fair hazel
jolly furnace
We'd be extinct by now probably
humble yacht
Apes survived without fire
jolly furnace
We'd either be extinct or still at Tier 7 or below
humble yacht
If chimps can still be around today without tech, we probably could too
Just not as we are
terse lava
I would say the industrial revolution is what really changed us
jolly furnace
Yeah but chimps havent really changed much it
humble yacht
Really? Industrial revolution is rather recent as far as our species goes
fair hazel
Without tools and so on. It’d be a far cry I feel to call human whatever it is.
jolly furnace
Our advantage was our brains
terse lava
Well before that tech was overall static for thousands of years
humble yacht
Ancient egyptians didn’t have industrial revolution and yet they did fine
jolly furnace
Chimps it seems will never reach our level of intellect
or go extinct before that if its even possible
humble yacht
Yea and look at what chimps have instead: greater strength than humans
jolly furnace
If we never invented tool building we wouldnt chatting here now
humble yacht
A chimp can crush you barehanded
fair hazel
Evolution isn’t about “reaching sentience”
humble yacht
Is a chimp strong because they never evolved to use tools like humans? Who knows
jolly furnace
Great for them
terse lava
With no tech what so ever, we would be hairless equalivlent of chimps
Not that impressive
jolly furnace
Yeah and?
terse lava
And nothing
jolly furnace
Hence we have tools
limpid meadow
I remember reading about a hypothesis that Chimps may have actually regressed after a time due to Human dominance.
versed helm
Ian I’m still here
terse lava
Never heard that theory
jolly furnace
Didnt help other species
humble yacht
@versed helm don’t harass users about making content
terse lava
that is getting annoying
limpid meadow
Like I said, hypothesis, not theory. Don't know how much water it held. This was years ago too.
terse lava
Ah
versed helm
Darn. Well, there’s my reply then
limpid meadow
@versed helm you're welcome to message me if you want
terse lava
Either way, I dont think having greater strength would be a good trade off for what we have now
hasty locust
We have thumbs
terse lava
Dont forget, with no advancements, our lifeline would go to what? 20?
hasty locust
And thats good enough for me
humble yacht
Not a greater Trade off, but would we have the physical enchaments (or closer to it) that Halsey sought to give to the Spartans?
If we didn’t have computers, humans wouldn’t be mostly sedentary. And we probably wouldn’t have issues like carpel tunnel and adult onset diabeetus
Or obesity, for that matter
terse lava
Yet can that be argued for the haloverse? Where the hyper advanced forerunners could pull all that off?
humble yacht
Forerunners reached a level of intellect where they too augmented themselves with tech to lead longer, better lives
The forerunner’s impressive biology was not al naturale
terse lava
Never said it was, we could move to the more humble covenant who had pretty good life extension and strength enhancements
humble yacht
I wonder if the brutes were physically weaker at their most tech advanced age than they are now after they knocked themselves back a few tiers
Did they gain physical attributes back to compensate for the loss of their tech? And if so, how long did that take?
limpid meadow
I doubt they gained anything back per se, there wasn't enough time passed for evolution to make any noticeable or major changes.
However, they may have been more muscular and even seen attitude revert to more tribal habits after the First Immolation
humble yacht
When did brutes nuke themselves back into Stone Age?
terse lava
Well also how far back was their civil war too? Decades? Centuries? Millennium?
limpid meadow
There's no strict date, but it wasn't long before the Covenant found them.
jolly furnace
I think Brutes homeworld gravity is higher than ours which would force brutes to develop greater strength
I dont know
humble yacht
They’d likely get denser bones and denser muscle fibers from that
terse lava
Indeed
humble yacht
But unless they had anti grav tech at their peak as a species, I don’t see them losing that from their advanced technology
It’s funny to imagine fat brutes on hover scooters eating high sugar foods, tho
limpid meadow
They peaked at Tier 4
limpid meadow
Tier 4 being about where modern Humanity stands
More or less. We're between Tier 5 and 4.
terse lava
Yea
Also where were we told that the covenant found them shortly after the civil war?
humble yacht
All I see is a recorded date when they rediscovered rocket science
No record of how long after the immolation that was
Also why call it the First Immolation if their wasn’t a second one?
terse lava
Yea, though I think the immolation did last a decade
humble yacht
WWI people called it the Great War, not WWI
It wasn’t referred to as WWI until WWII
terse lava
Maybe the covenant invasion of the world counted as a 2nd?
jolly furnace
humanity in real life is between tier 5 and 4
We havent colonised are star system yet
terse lava
We were never told how tough the battle was for the jiralhanae homeworld
humble yacht
Not thought enough to knock them back as a species, apparently
I doubt the Covenant conquering them approaches the levels of devastation that the first Immolation reached
terse lava
It could have
humble yacht
The first immolation was said to have almost led to their extinction as a species
And yet in the covenant they were quite plentiful
If the covenant had razed them to such low number as the Immolation, they would never have been able to comprise as much of the Covenant as they did. Certainly not to the level where they could successfully take over as the main enforcers of the prophets
terse lava
If that's the case, the war must have been ancient by the time the covenant found them
humble yacht
That’s my feeling
jolly furnace
2.1 G -Brute homeworld gravity
humble yacht
I think at least several generations had passed between the immolation and the covenant
terse lava
Perhaps what, 1000 years?
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
terse lava
We know it wiped out centuries of progress
cunning socket
Is mcc the story of the human - covenant war?
gilded mason
+Halo 4
cunning socket
Aye
humble yacht
It’s only the story of master chief
Which is itself a small portion of the Human Covenant War
gilded mason
...And an ODST squad, and Noble Team
cunning socket
So 4 + is the war on cortana and the guardians
humble yacht
4+ is the reclaimer saga
cunning socket
Ah alright
carmine sleet
Halo 4 does not feature us fighting Cortana
gilded mason
It does feature Cortana fighting Cortana metaphorically, though
cunning socket
Alrighty
versed helm
And in Halo 5 its one of her rampant fragments, as the nuking of Didact's ship seperated them
The pure main fragment we see in Halo 4 is the Cortana we've seen since CE
And the ones we see in Halo 5 & possibly Infinite
humble yacht
We don’t know how much of Cortana made it to the domain
versed helm
We only know that a fragment got there
humble yacht
But seemingly it was a large portion, certainly more than one fragment
dominion splinter shows many fragments
humble yacht
Yes
versed helm
What's that?
carmine sleet
Short story released after H5
humble yacht
A graphic novel in the Halo Fractures collection
Or maybe tales from slipspace
One or the other
versed helm
I see
carmine sleet
I think it was in the graphic novel
humble yacht
But even in Halo 4, that one “good” fragment we see in the finale says “most of me is down there”, referencing the destroyed ship
humble yacht
All of her was in the ship’s systems
She used a little bit of herself to save Chief
“I only held enough back to get you off the ship”
versed helm
with the light shield
versed helm
terse lava
....sigh
humble yacht
?
versed helm
He's disappointed in us
humble yacht
If you think I was making a “that’s what she said” joke, I wasn’t
I was just a little late in posting
versed helm
That’s what she said
@humble yacht
gaunt oakBOT
gilded mason
Alas, unable to use the full quote function when quoting mods.
versed helm
Kinda sucks
humble yacht
Yes but pilot did not have a question
outer perch
Just for the record, Emile was born on the same planet as John.
terse lava
Cool
versed helm
They never met, but would be an interesting conversation between the two
humble yacht
Chief: "......"
Emile: "......."
Chief: "..... I'm from Eridanus II."
Emile: "Me too."
Chief: "Cool."
then they never speak again
terse lava
Sounds about right
carmine sleet
I'm surprised nobody referenced that one video that claims the two are brothers. Which obviously, makes no sense
humble yacht
a moment of reprieve from idiocy? by the gods, it's a miracle
carmine sleet
Aye, it really is
versed helm
Chief got Sniper Jackal’d on the forerunner dreadnought in between H2 and H3
In game, yes
In lore, no
In lore, yes
In game, no
carmine sleet
We don't play any mission on the inside of the Forerunner Dreadnaught in either game
versed helm
It was in a comic
Oh I just realized what you mean but no he doesn't in game
What's this comic?
I honestly can’t remember
limpid meadow
Halo: Uprising
limpid meadow
Comic that was supposed to bridge Halo 2 and 3 and took over a year to come out XD
versed helm
I guess I laughed my “posterior” off when Chief was shot?
Oke I can say that
;-;
lol i understood now
Oh yeah the comic had tibbies in it as well
I remember that
humble yacht
yes, but it also does all that automatically
carmine sleet
Yes, he does that in game, such as destroying the terminal that Cortana's chip was inside during the final mission of Halo 4
versed helm
He 360 no scoped it and Chief yelled "Cortana!" The way he said it was wierd
But it happened
Can he turn his ship into a space pizza?
Hopefully
humble yacht
if there was a tactical advantage to being a pizza, maybe he could
versed helm
When humans are composed
They are turned into mozzarella
They'd momma'd their last a-mia
Because their soul is bascially digitized
And their body is destroyed idk why
Wait wat
Oh I thought u were talking about the composer
humble yacht
the Composer's energy is so great that it basically disintegrates the physical form while scanning
other forerunner weapons that use hard light disintegrate due to high energy, too
versed helm
I'm guessing that promethean/forerunner weapons use that same energy
humble yacht
because they were developed as anti-flood weapons, and the best way to get rid of flood is to burn it
it's not the same energy but its similarly powerful
humble yacht
promethean weapons probably were, since prometheans were designed as anti-flood units
versed helm
But the forerunner tech humans find in the 2500s are anti-flood
humble yacht
the flood war was a major event in Forerunner history
versed helm
Well, it's what ended them
humble yacht
alot of stuff the forerunners made was related to dealing with flood
versed helm
And all we know about them
Alot of the stuff humans can only find in the 2500s
All the other stuff may be relevant & even important but the things the forerunners didn't hide were for flood
Makes sense
'Cuz imagine not hiding a city of forerunners and forerunner weapons during a galactic outbreak
Or tested cures
Ya never know
limpid meadow
Sadly no
I was really hoping she'd appear in Hunt the Truth, but it never happened 😦
restive hill
alot of stuff the forerunners made was related to dealing with flood
@humble yacht i had a question about the flood are you dead when they take over you by an infection form ? Because if your still alive then that makes them more terrifying
humble yacht
they can convert living or dead bodies
so long as a body is intact and relatively fresh
it's suitable for combat form transformation
feral perch
@restive hill There was a poor guy named Jenkins who got infected by a weak Infection form. His consciousness was not totally destroyed, so he shared a horribly mutated and deformed body with the Flood presence.
restive hill
Ahh okay so general consensus is that your dead when a infection form takes over your living body (snapping neck, liquified organs etc when it take your body) but there are some exceptions?
humble yacht
the transformation makes you clinically dead (no heartbeat, etc)
but the flood keeps the body active through wierd, sci fi means
normally your mind goes into the flood upon death, but if it doesn't, you're kind of trapped in your dead zombie body
feral perch
Not consensus. There’s only one known instance of a person retaining their consciousness in a combat form. Otherwise it gets absorbed into the Flood presence.
gilded mason
And then it's pain and misery for all eternity. Thanks, Gravemind.
limpid meadow
Though it should be noted that the consciousness of those absorbed can be brought back out by the Flood. The Gravemind resurrected a number of ancient Humans and sent them to Earth as a taunt against the Librarian.
humble yacht
i thought it took the geas of those humans from other places and then put them into corrupted bodies and then sent them to Earth
feral perch
Makes me wonder if a cure for the Flood could ever happen.
gilded mason
A cure would lessen their horror aspect, I think
feral perch
Yeah, but a final end would too, which is what I had in mind.
humble yacht
yeah, the Gravemind found the essences of Forthencho and 3 of his buddies elsewhere, copied them onto human bodies implanted with flood corruption, and then sent them to Earth
it didn't summon Forthencho from within itself
limpid meadow
@humble yacht It's still a consciousness that had been absorbed into the Flood. Alternatively you have Regret in Halo 2.
humble yacht
with Regret, it's arguable that the gravemind simply had not fully absorbed him
limpid meadow
It was literally part of his tentacle
humble yacht
rather than bringing him back after full absorption
i'm talking about his mind
Truth similarly wasn't fully corrupted and held onto himself before Thel killed him
limpid meadow
Regardless, the consciousness is absorbed, but it can be brought back out if the Flood wants.
humble yacht
i'm not so convinced
i think the gravemind kept Regret separate while waiting to get a hold of Chief and Thel
limpid meadow
But it didn't. It was puppeteering him
That's why Regret isn't freaking out about his current state
humble yacht
physically sure, maybe mentally, but if it was puppetting then it wasn't really Regret in the first place
limpid meadow
It's using Regret's knowledge and experience.
That's basically our consciousness: a collection of memories and experience
humble yacht
there's also the soul, spirit, essence, etc.
limpid meadow
If you believe in that. I don't.
humble yacht
the halo universe suggests it exists, in some capacity
limpid meadow
Where do you see evidence of souls in Halo?
restive hill
Tbh if i was infected by the flood id be comfortable knowing that im dead and another creature is controlling me but i feel nothing
humble yacht
terminology nonwithstanding, the idea of the Composer turning people into digital data seems to preserve something beyond just their memories.
limpid meadow
@restive hill If you're at all conscious after being infected, you feel everything
@humble yacht I fail to see how.
restive hill
The key word being ‘if’ which means fingers crossed i dont end up like private jenkins
humble yacht
then there's the IsoDidact, who despite being implanted with the Ur Didact's geas, managed to still remain largely himself. even at the height of their merging, he was different from how the Ur Didact used to be
Guilty Spark was an entity born of the merging of multiple essenscences, but the Chakas essensce managed to come back
limpid meadow
He wasn't implanted with a geas. He did receive the Didact's memories and experiences, and it did change him. REgardless, I don't see how that's evidence of a soul.
humble yacht
some aspect of an individual remains unique to them, even in the presence of certain transformations
limpid meadow
Essences being digital entities of composed memories and experiences. But I don't see how that relates to a soul
humble yacht
like I said, "soul" is just one term for it
limpid meadow
And I don't see who that is different from consciousness
I don't see why a soul or anything similar is required for any of this.
humble yacht
to me, if it were only memories at play, then manipulating those memories would change the person permanently
but that isn't the case for some characters
so that suggests to me that there is something deeper, something subconscious, that helps determine identity
limpid meadow
Where were memories manipulated?
feral perch
Why did the Forerunners fail to successfully revert composed essences? If consciousness is merely memory and experience, why did it sour in the Composer, instead of remaining intact like other data?
limpid meadow
Memories being added isn't memories being manipulated
Spark did change. Chakas did change
humble yacht
manipulation is any sort of change
limpid meadow
That's why he goes with just "Spark" in Renegades
And yeah, memories aren't the only thing that makes people. That's why we talk about consciousness.
But I don't see where a soul comes into play
humble yacht
consciousness could be another way of expressing the term
feral perch
Yeah.
humble yacht
depends on who you're talking to and in what context
in sci fi, sure, it's more apropos
limpid meadow
Seemed like you were making a distinction earlier
restive hill
I think we got off topic with my question XD
humble yacht
i'm not trying to get into a philospohical argument over halo, is all
feral perch
what is apropros?
humble yacht
appropriate
humble yacht
because I like words
limpid meadow
I too am a Matrix fan
feral perch
heheheh
restive hill
So hypothetically if the flood took over every living being in the universe would they just sit around and play mario cart or something 😛
limpid meadow
The lore behind him is fascinating to say the least
And the actor absolutely nailed the performance.
humble yacht
all beings absorbed by the flood "live" in eternal torment and agony
limpid meadow
@restive hill Oh please, the Flood is a collective of culture.
humble yacht
so instead of playing mariokart it'd be like playing... anthem?
limpid meadow
Obvious ot would binge every anime in existence.
Play every visual novel, every mobile game, etc.
feral perch
Lol. Who would be afraid of ol’ Gravy if they found out it played mobile games?
What a dweeb.
limpid meadow
*weeb
feral perch
both
humble yacht
Gravemind plays mobile games but overdraws your accounts with microtransactions
that's the torture part
limpid meadow
Lol
feral perch
Whatever he’s not a real gamer
stoic hamlet
Idk if they really do live in agony, tbh.
I mean, maybe Human Weakness isn’t the best source, but IIRC once they had been assimilated they felt no pain or anger, they were at peace.
I think? I may be misremembering, of course.
humble yacht
gravemind shows you trailers for cool games but then cancels them immediately after, over and over
feral perch
NO
stoic hamlet
“They” referring to the assimilated/infected people’s, to clarify.
limpid meadow
"Cortana" said there would be no sadness, no more anger, no more sorrow
humble yacht
The gravemind or Primordial told one of the Didacts what happens to people who get absorbed into the flood
and it wasn't good
tbf, Greg Bear's Gravemind was alot angrier than the original version
i feel like originally, the Flood were closer to the Borg in how they shared knowledge. it wasn't meant to be a painful experience being in the flood (even if becoming flood was quite painful)
also it was more permanent
feral perch
shakes tentacle at Joe Staten
feral perch
Reversal of your signature move
stoic hamlet
It could be the Flood mellowed our by the time of the games?
humble yacht
o i c
feral perch
just cuz
humble yacht
well they were mostly angry at the forerunners
and by 2552, the forerunners were gone, so
yeah, mellowing out is possible
stoic hamlet
Gravy finally got over his angsty teenage years where “EVERYTHING IS PAIN” and stuff, lol
humble yacht
more like "the work is finished. It always will be"
limpid meadow
It's possible, maybe even likely, that the Flood can control how good it bad it is for beings it absorbs
humble yacht
once you get vengeance, you're supposed to feel better
limpid meadow
I swear I recall the Gravemind in H3 talking about eternal sorrow or something
feral perch
That’s quite frightening.
stoic hamlet
IIRC he says firing the halo near the ark is a punishment/torture he doesn’t deserve, and maybe that he feels sorrow overall?
Maybe?
Or I may be mixing up two different quotes
humble yacht
"Resignation is my virtue. Like water, I ebb and flow. Defeat is merely addition of time to a sentence I did not deserve, but you imposed."
feral perch
The transcripts are on Halopedia
limpid meadow
I remember H2 he talks about suffering the progress of infinitude
terse lava
Good grief I missed a bunch
limpid meadow
And that's not the H3 quote I'm think of.
feral perch
“Your deaths will be instantaneous, while we shall suffer the progress of infinitude.”
humble yacht
i think eternal was confusing/combining my quote with another
"suffer" may be used in the more archaic term there
like less torture and more suffrage
feral perch
Ah, from Halopedia:
stoic hamlet
Yeah I was combining two of them, I think
feral perch
(panicking, voice slightly distorted) "There will be no more sadness, no more anger, no more envy!" (a reference to the three main stages of rampancy)
humble yacht
ah, but rampancy was largely retconned when 343 took over
stoic hamlet
Retconned?
humble yacht
yeah
stoic hamlet
How so?
humble yacht
Bungie's rampancy was recycled from Marathon
hence why is had the 5 stages that ended with Metastability, and why Mendicant Bias was, for a long time, called Metastable
stoic hamlet
Ah yes
I thought you meant like, it was retconned out entirely and was confused for a moment.
humble yacht
also, there was an easter egg in CE when killing Keyes on the Autumn bridge where Cortana calls you rampant
stoic hamlet
Yep
hasty locust
Idk, I’m pretty sure it’s canon I put a bullet in keyes’s brain
hasty locust
IK, I’m jokin
feral perch
yeah
feral perch
Although rampancy applied more to Chief with Bungie’s cyborg designator applied to him
humble yacht
Note how I called it an easter egg
humble yacht
lol, when you see all the cyborg references about Chief in the game and the game booklet, i think bungie wanted him to be even more cyborg than he was
and just said "f it" when it came to Nylund's interpretation
humble yacht
smoothly
limpid meadow
Spartans are cyborgs, just not in the sense the most people imagine.
humble yacht
yea, i don't think anyone is contesting that
I'm just saying, I think that Bungie may have originally had in mind that Chief was more cyborg than bone grafts and neural implants
feral perch
When I think of a cyborg, I think of either Cyborg or the Borg.
Basically, something transhuman due to incorporated technology.
limpid meadow
Probably
humble yacht
that's def the sci fi interpretation
greater than or equal to 50% machine
or something along those lines
feral perch
That reminds me of something dumb from SW Legends
I’m grateful Halo’s lore isn’t as fragmented as SW Legends
humble yacht
for now, it's not
feral perch
I’d like to forget about that
humble yacht
i don't think it's that big of a deal
feral perch
just more games and novels please
fair hazel
It’s a huge deal to me
limpid meadow
Same
fair hazel
50% machine though seems. Eh.
terse lava
Anyone find it odd that the lich was mainly a civilian vehicle?
versed helm
The one from Halo 4? Not really since it didn't have any giant turrets on it other than the mobile Covey ones you see everywhere.
carmine sleet
It also had a large beam it could use as well, as we see used on the Mammoth during the level Reclaimer
hasty locust
Most of the covenant’s vehicles were mining tools, no?
carmine sleet
That's because it isn't a civilian vehicle
And I wouldn't say most Covenant vehicles are mining tools
terse lava
Warfleet claimed it was civilian
hasty locust
Well wasn’t the glassing beam built for mining or something. Or is it just a “how many lies have I been told by the council” kinda moment
terse lava
Those were the locusts and other walkers
hasty locust
Ah, yes
versed helm
What do y’all think an elite like arby or Rtas would think of Pre-1946 Japanese culture? Or of Ancient Rome or Greece
lean karma
that It was the will of the gods to eliminate the human race and the covenant were the tool they would use
er wait this is pre covenant.. im not sure
terse lava
Pre covenant? He never said that, just sangheili with a similar mindset to Thel or Rtas. I would think they would respect the warrior culture of the cultures, but balk towards other things
jolly furnace
and those cultures would balk at other things of sangheili culture
terse lava
Yep
lean karma
right I was thinking senghilli in the same time period as the pre 1946 japanesse culture
stoic hamlet
You probably mean pre-1860’s Japanese culture. During the Shogunate.
hasty locust
I think what he means is the similarities between ancient earth cultures and ancient sangheli cultures, what their reactions would be seeing as they aren’t all that different
jolly furnace
Familarity and shock
hasty locust
I feel like they may respect humans a bit more
terse lava
Well he gave the time period, unless he wants jump back to the pre covenant days
snow void
Isn't it technically lore that the Halo games exist in the Halo universe? 
versed helm
Maybe a COD like Halo game that takes place years after the war ended?
Sort of like WW2 or Modern shooters of today that base their games on Historic Wars or on going wars but based on the Halo games events and exists in the lore
bronze obsidian
Sounds like fun
hasty locust
I think in infinite if peeps wanted a modern movement halo shooter, just name it like ‘marine slayer’ and you just play in a marine training sim, because we’ve all seen marines sprint, clamber, use cover etc
dusty pilot
does anyone know if UNSC has a Mandatory retirement age? or can Hood be a Admiral till he is 150?
past olive
is advanced movement really that big of a deal
feral perch
careful, you’ll incite a riot with that talk
humble yacht
Not in this channel 😛
feral perch
oooh right
terse lava
Now if he said something like, "sangheili are the worst thing of halo" there may be a problem
versed helm
Indeed, he wouldn't walk out of this server alive
feral perch
bet
terse lava
Has it ever been said what happened to the heretics based on the moon that alpha halo was nearby?
snow void
No I'm saying since the Halo universe is supposed to be everything that has happened and such, but plus all the Halo universe additions, then Halo would exist
Must be how ONI learned all those secrets about the Forerunners.
humble yacht
Obviously halo’s fictional history does not include itself
versed helm
Rule of thumb
Any sci-fi universe diverges from reality at the time of its real-world conception
So Halo's universe differed from ours since the late 1990s, in at least one way - the lack of existence of Halo as a franchise
There could be more.
humble yacht
Logical
versed helm
In relation to the Forerunners, stuff in the ancient past does not count as a divergence before the 1990s because if the Forerunner stuff exists as-is true to the lore then we can't yet prove or disprove it.
We'd have to do some pretty hardcore excavating first.
Obviously it doesn't, but the possibility does exist that something analogous to it may, however improbable.
So if something couldn't be proven or disproven as of the inception of Halo, then it may or may not be a thing in Halo.
snow void
Man, nobody can take a joke
versed helm
We existed in the halo universe
terse lava
Hm?
versed helm
I always liked to imagine a "version" of me existed or exists in the halo universe
terse lava
Well Frankie exists as a janitor
Btw, noticed on halopedia that for the battle of Jericho, an unnamed arbiter led the covenant. Seeing as that was from that halo RISK Game, shouldn't be non canon?
gilded mason
It's non-canon, yeah
terse lava
Thought that was the case, was curious then why its there
gilded mason
Ask CIA, I suppose.
terse lava
I guesd
gilded mason
That does remind me, I wanna ask him something about Halo Escalation: Library Edition when he's on tomorrow
(This is assuming he owns it)
carmine sleet
Why are you taking something they said out of context? @versed helm
gilded mason
I believe that is the joke.
versed helm
I have a question i've been playing Halo 2 since it came out what bothers me the most is How fast Johnson and Arbiter joined forces in the last mission the great journey. Did Sgt.Johnson know about the Covenant civil war? @ me if you have the answers maybe this was expanded upon in books or something.
carmine sleet
They had a common enemy in Tartarus, if they fought one another, the ring would've been fired
brittle ruin
Johnson has to have passed in front of the councilors in jail before the scarab platform
also Johnson and Miranda got escorted through high charity by tartarus while the entire city was in conflict, so they probably figured it out
also, truth broadcasts through the city speakers
carmine sleet
Johnson has to have passed in front of the councilors in jail before the scarab platform
@brittle ruin Johnson and the marines were kept outside on the platform where Arbiter decided to work with Johnson. Without Arbiter storming the area, Johnson wouldn't have been able to hijack the Scarab
tender ginkgo
You know in Halo the supposed evolutionary tree of man is pretty much not true and that creationists are kinda right in saying that humanity was created though in this case it was the Precursors and not the Abrahamic God
versed helm
Precursors>gods
carmine sleet
Evolution did happen though, humanity wasn't created in the form that we see the race in today
versed helm
The evolutionary tree is true.
In Halo, that is.
The Precursor's impact on humanity was probably more to do with the existential leap from lack of life to life, or lack of sentience to sentience.
Plus, the engineering of the environment itself.
versed helm
Making Halo have a foothold statement on controversies like that makes me cringe. Ideally, it should either be left ambiguous or have it be interpreted in what seems to be a paradox between where both ideas come from
The existence of God is just as unlikely in Halo as it is in our reality, but also just as impossible to entirely disprove
Basically it's the status quo
Who created the Precursors? How did reality begin?
Does time stretch back infinitely without a beginning?
Why does a counter theory of the “theory” of evolution have to always mean “God” to you
Because evolution is the only alternative.
Either we were popped into existence over a short span of time by something with immense capabilities, what we call God
That’s not a clever statement
Or it was a passive process
One that took millions of years, as passive processes do
I am entirely willing to hear you out if you've got a middleground
I'm afraid I don't yet see it
Alright, well the mediator that claims how primates such as apes are even still around wholly goes against the point of a regional “evolution” in the first place
Not necessarily. Evolution branches.
I don’t pick sides, but that is pretty brow raising to me personally
By the logic you use, shouldn't there be only one species on the planet?
Or one mammal.
Or just an offshoot of a similar gene pool. Why would a handful of the species stay in their exact form if the process of evolving so so critical of a decision to gradually make?
It's not a decision
It's breeding
Whatever you want to call it
The difference is pretty significant
First off, you're presuming that the other primates around us are in the exact same form they were in before humanity began to split off.
Is that true?
No. But then by saying that you’re going against the crux of what you were highlighting earlier
I found an article
I'll DM it to you
Sure. But If apes are different, and we are different, how could we be directly from apes?
See what you think after you have a look at the article
Just so you know I'm not making anything up
feral perch
Most evolutionists will tell you that we are descended from an ape-like species, not apes themselves
there is a distinction
versed helm
Scientists think ancestral humans began distinguishing themselves from ancestral chimps when they started spending more time on the ground. Perhaps our ancestors were looking for food as they explored new habitats, Isbell said.
That's the crux of the article.
Modern apes stayed in trees.
My personal rationale for believing that it's literally evolution vs creationism is that, as far as we can observe, we live in a reality in which everything around us is basically just stuff very gradually undergoing reactions
The formation of planets and suns, the expansion of the universe, it's all cause and effect.
Anything significant also seems to happen to play out over really long periods of time.
feral perch
It seems like you’re actually advocating uniformitarianism
versed helm
Evolution fits that idea of perpetual, slow transformation.
Which seems to be what everything is.
I don't know what uniformitarianism is. All I'm saying is that, as far as I can tell, time itself is defined by the steady change of one case of affairs to the other.
feral perch
Maybe you should look up Mount St. Helens’ 1980 eruption sometime.
versed helm
For a thing to exist, something must have come before it.
That's why the concept of a beginning of everything is so troublesome.
feral perch
You’ve never heard of uniformitarianism?
versed helm
Can't say I have
feral perch
Ah.
versed helm
What I'm saying, though, is that for there to be something now, there must always have been something before
Just in a different form
feral perch
That sounds logical.
versed helm
So there can never be anything like a beginning of reality
And the same logic tells me that for humanity to exist we must have been something else before, and that thing must have been something else before, etc etc.
And that's basically evolution.
🤷♂️
It's either that or something really drastic that happened over a short period of time and constituted an incredible change.
feral perch
All the way back to inanimate/non living matter?
versed helm
Which is creationism.
I mean, yeah.
Pretty befuddled as to how non-living matter eventually made its way into life and then into sentience
versed helm
That I have heard of, and I agree
It's a theory along the lines of "this must have happened, but we don't know how it happened."
feral perch
Louis Pasteur seemed to think it couldn’t happen.
versed helm
And that's really what the whole debate should hinge on
feral perch
On whether that proposition is true?
versed helm
We get how evolution occurs when it's living into living - we have evidence of it, and it makes sense. But how does the soup of the big bang turn itself into sentience given time?
I mean, I guess it had a ridiculous amount of time
But it feels like asking what would happen if you banged two rocks together for a trillion, trillion years
And on that basis I feel as if some level of spiritualism in how you look at the world is justified
Because whatever process can take two rocks banging together and give you humanity is probably going to be esoteric as hell
But on the other hand I feel like creationism often asks too much
feral perch
I wonder if we’re not dipping too far off topic
As long as we’re not name-calling this is tolerable, for now.
versed helm
It always goes along the lines of "okay, here are the flaws in the logic of evolution, now accept Jesus Christ into your heart and be saved"
feral perch
Another question you might ask is whether information can arise from non-intelligence.
Some people believe that aliens created humanity.
Although that just pushes the question back further, who created those aliens?
agile dragon
yes
humble yacht
That's a rabbit hole I don't want halo to go down
feral perch
What was the first mention of Precursors?
versed helm
Chim, you're like the "they ruined Battlefield" guy from Battlefield friends but with things relating to Halo lore
humble yacht
i don't know what that is and don't care to know
feral perch
No but seriously, what was the first time we heard about Precursors?
humble yacht
iirc, bestiarum
feral perch
idk what that is
versed helm
Post-H3 Waypoint source, innit?
Basically a somewhat more in-depth version of the "species" category in Universe on the current Waypoint
feral perch
Ah.
versed helm
I don't see how Precursors really do harm.
humble yacht
I just don't like constant escalating
versed helm
I mean, they do give Halo a somewhat unique, mythical slant on its history.
As opposed to I guess, something more Aliens-like
feral perch
Dead Space being like a super grim dark Halo
versed helm
Which is "space dudes find space monsters, humanity blunders in"
humble yacht
when you give the creators their own creators, then people ask who created the creators' creators, then ask about the great great grand creators, and so on
i don't want a new apex species everytime we have a new arc
versed helm
Yeah but it's the same question, and it's always going to be asked
Going up a rung or two is pretty harmless
humble yacht
an asked question doesn't have to be answered
sometimes leaving things in mystery is better than revealing
versed helm
If the question is "where does it all begin", then it still hasn't been answered
So we're cool
humble yacht
but it's the chasing of that question that I don't want
it's a never ending rabbit hole that just gets more ridiculous the more you go down it.
The Precursors are just ridiculous enough to be annoying
feral perch
But you’re ok with Flood
humble yacht
thankfully, they aren't infallible and can at least be killed
humble yacht
I was more ok with flood before their association with Precursors
versed helm
I'll tell you what is ridiculous - the idea that the space zombie bois from CE could overtake whatever civilization could build the Halos.
The Flood's precursor connection is a way of explaining their esoteric capabilities
Which is the basis on which they were a threat to begin with
humble yacht
is it anymore ridiculous than the Black Plague wiping out a large percentage of the human race?
versed helm
If the human race could build Halo arrays
Then the Black Plague would be substantially more ridiculous
feral perch
the Black Plague happened because nobody washed their hands after spending time with animals XD
humble yacht
the Flood just took the idea of disease and gave it intelligence
it was simply and effective
versed helm
Yeah, and you know what the Forerunners had?
Spades of intelligence coupled with weapons of imaginable power and scientific epiphanies we can't even conceptualize.
The thing that took them down had to be big.
The level of escalation helps facilitate that.
humble yacht
Well for me, suspension of disbelief for a sentient disease almost conquering a superintelligent alien race is easier than accepting Precursors
I get you have a different level of suspension of disbelief and that's fine
I'll never love the Precursors, I'll always prefer halo before I learned about them
versed helm
Well, you can’t go back from there
Honestly, it's not your viewpoint that bothers me
But I do think dwelling on it isn't gonna do any good
humble yacht
probably not
versed helm
Honestly a lot of the things I argue with people over are things that probably once annoyed me
But I have this ability to like
Adjust my thinking
It's pretty neat
Well.. that’s good XD
humble yacht
I'm fine with stopping at understanding someone's thinking
versed helm
Been a while since I’ve heard someone say or type that tbh
humble yacht
I feel no need to change my mind based on someone else's opinion when it comes to fiction
versed helm
I just assimilate things because I have the desire to enjoy the thing in question on the whole
So I kinda isolate the idea that my tastes are subjective, and simultaneously look for merit in the idea I know I dislike on an irrational basis
humble yacht
My overall feeling towards Halo is still positive even if some individual aspects irk me
versed helm
But yeah
humble yacht
Nothing about Halo is terrible
versed helm
Neural physics space crab bois are neat 🦀
Besides as-is
They're basically just kinda myth and legend
Their true nature is not really understood
Nor their precise connection with the Flood
Maybe they're metaphorical
That would be a cool development if well executed
humble yacht
um, we have a pretty good understanding of their connection to the flood, tho
that was explained in pretty vivid detail
versed helm
By a giant 🦀 trying to send a man insane
There's still some pretty significant questions to ask
Yeah, it’s not as if 3 million planets covers the entire Milky way lol
humble yacht
versed helm
Halo’s scale is still for the most part, very dormant
humble yacht
it's closer to 3 trillion planets in the galaxy
(total, including non-life supporting)
versed helm
Well, realistically speaking yeah. And the forerunners have barely a millionth of a foothold over it all
humble yacht
oh, sure, i think i see what you mean
the Forerunner empire was small compared to the span of the whole galaxy
versed helm
Mm. Which leads for a lot of wiggle room for more, equally powerful species to coexist (who may have been equally as totalitarian in some cases)
humble yacht
maybe
versed helm
But then again, that also naturally expands upon how much of a threat the flood really was to engulf most of the galaxy in some few hundred years
humble yacht
when you look at modern earth, you've got like 2-3 countries that comprise >90% of humanity's destructive capability
so I could see Forerunners and Ancient Humans being the most advanced races in all the galaxy back in the day
with no one else at their level
versed helm
That’s still a menial coefficient in contrast to one in a literal hundred million
Would it be a reasonable assumption that the planets under the control of the Forerunners would have constituted all or a majority of the habitable planets in the galaxy?
Assuming that in Halo, habitable nearly universally means Earth-like.
humble yacht
eh, that's tough
well given the Grunts, we know that not all life needs earth-like conditions
stupid methane breathers. really throws a wrench in the fundamentals of biology
versed helm
Which also adds for more interesting factions to come into the fray
Imagine the weird things you could see coming from a gas giant
Well, ignore the Earth-like bit.
Any planet which has the capability to be inhabited by biological life
humble yacht
it's tough for writers to think of forms of life too removed from what we know and understand
versed helm
In Halo, could the percentage of planets that meet that condition be about as many as the Ecumene included?
Well, then they could have different molecular structures ie Silicone based like in Star Trek
humble yacht
did silicone-based life forms in Star Trek breathe sulfur?
versed helm
I can’t remember exactly, but that sounds right
humble yacht
if so, good on Roddenberry
versed helm
Trek has a lot of interesting ideas I’d like to see transmutated into something more Halo-ified
Frankie also thinks so
humble yacht
Honestly I'm fine with Grunts and their ability to breathe methane, even if it doesn't follow periodic trends, because they're alien and aliens can be hand-wavy
it's Initiation and that bs lung augmentation line that grinds my gears
like, you can't just go and change how cell biology works in humans
(you can, but you shouldn't)
versed helm
who deleted my question on here
humble yacht
nobody
humble yacht
you're question from 10 hours ago?
versed helm
yeah
versed helm
I searched for it and already scrolled its not there lol
humble yacht
well i see it in the search bar, so
gilded mason
Is it about Johnson and Thel?
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
versed helm
yeah
versed helm
now i see it
versed helm
👍
jolly furnace
Ok regarding the debates up this page - humanity's origin lies in the Precursors one way or another. Human evolution in Halo doesn't conform to real life human evolution anymore thanks to Forerunner Saga
But they still underwent evolution
humble yacht
the forerunner saga wasn't the point in Halo where normal evolutionary theory changed for the canon
even in Bungie Halo, humans were regarded as the "children" of Forerunners
jolly furnace
Ultimately we never got Bungie's vision for the coneection
Bungie themselves weren't even sure which way they wanted to go till the end
But as far as we know in Bungie canon by the end of it, humanity evolved on Earth as in real life
humble yacht
don't know about that
jolly furnace
Well there's no indication otherwise in bungie era
versed helm
Makes sense, WW2 was canon in Halo lore which means that everything happening before & probably after that is too
But it's hard to understand, since the Halo events we see in the game is 500 years from now
There's so much that could've changed
It's a miracle humanity survived in Halo lore 500 years futher on Earth, our chances of survival are diminishing right now
humble yacht
it is sci fi. not all events play out the same
carmine sleet
I love bees proves that
jolly furnace
Isn't that only semi canon
terse lava
Well look at the covenant they managed to exist for thousands of years, humanity going 500 doesnt seem that odd
jolly furnace
well modern humanity is going 500 years
ancient humanity went for 1 million years
at least from 1.1 million BCE to 109,000 BCE
with dark ages in the interim
Forerunners went for at least 10 million
restive hill
I was wondering if any forerunners exist still that are flesh and blood ? Like the didact (i say flesh and blood because the librarian appears in halo 4? I think so)
novel plank
That's why he made the disclaimer that she is not flesh and blood
humble yacht
as far as we know, after the Didact was composed, there are no known living forerunners left
the Forerunners who left the galaxy 100,000 years ago may have died off by now
novel plank
There's rumors that precursors, forerunners, and maybe other species, have escaped the milky way before, to live elsewhere
Other than that it's a "no as far as"
snow void
According to the Primordial, some precursors did escape the galaxy when the Forerunners attacked.
frail robin
a forerunner builder was referenced in halo 5 intel on genesis
who ultimately went to bastion when cortana n warden got distracted
humble yacht
true but we don't know if that was a digital essence looking to enter the Domain
versed helm
The domain is precursor, is it not?
gilded mason
Yes
versed helm
I see
novel plank
true but we don't know if that was a digital essence looking to enter the Domain
seeing as there are so many rabid Createds running around i could easily see that
versed helm
Even if there are more forerunners, it wouldn't seem right if it turned out that there are more Forerunners. It would ruin the "Hey, this is my dead cousin's room. Oh! What's this gun doing here?" vibe we saw in Halo CE-3
novel plank
the Forerunners who left the galaxy 100,000 years ago may have died off by now
Can they not reproduce?
Surely as long as they could find a sustainable habitat they would thrive
versed helm
They might not have the things they need to reproduce
And I say it that way because there might be other means of doing so 'cuz they're aliens
Maybe these means are more complicated than ours or difficult to achieve
Anyways, if they did, there might be other types of life that could've been higher in the tech tiers than them. They could've killed them off then, or if they were lower, same thing 'cuz the Forerunners are weakened at that point
Hell, they could've brought the Flood w/ them on "accident" (for research) and spread it further through the galaxies
terse lava
From the hints in silentium ancient forerunners reproduced differently then modern ones. When the librarian and chant visited the village of the primitive forerunners, the natives appeared curious on the two females reproductive areas
snow void
I mean, they'd still need a natural way of reproducing.
novel plank
the precursors are also polyporphic
so who knows what they'd have to do to reproduce
snow void
flood
novel plank
they can create life through metaphysical means, yes?
so perhaps they simply spring the worlds around them to life upon getting there?
terse lava
Could do that perhaps
novel plank
make more world-builder tier species
fonder peasant species
and (god forbid) another abomination
snow void
The Precursors may have basically been gods, but they did still use technology, I'd reckon they likely seeded galaxies with their technology
Also could've been a slower process than just "bam, life"
novel plank
seeded, yes, but they have some weaker power?
oh, im sure its not a spontaneous ability, whether the ability is hypothetical or not
snow void
Weaker power than what?
terse lava
Yea it appears the precursors lacked the ability to pop life into being
novel plank
aww ok
terse lava
Otherwise, wouldn't need to make themselves powder
novel plank
either way, we can never truly know
terse lava
We may one day
novel plank
it remains a mystery of how they work for now
if only there would be some clues we may find on Zeta Halo
snow void
Well we do know that they're exceedingly older than the universe and have powers to manipulate it in unimaginable ways, but that could've changed over the billions of years that they were present in the, at least current, universe in Halo. Cause we know the Precursors as a species has constantly gone through the cycles of life time and time again, becoming different things, being bound to certain tiers of civilization, etc. they could've been a far more powerful race before they seeded the Milkyway Galaxy
And equally, the Flood could be a more powerful race than the previous Precursors, if not the same.
terse lava
Where do people keep thinking the precursors are older then the universe? They only gathered info from that time to add up to 100 billion years. Similar to how halo players have built up centuries of play time
snow void
From 200 billion years before the stars, not just 100 billion years worth of info, at least I'm pretty sure that's what it is(the specifics of the quote)
terse lava
100 billion, not 200
snow void
Suppose you're right
What was the line I'm thinking of referring to Precursors before the stars?
snow void
Silentium, the Gravemind claims that the knowledge gathered in the Domain was from before there were stars
terse lava
Anyway lunh break over so will continue later
snow void
"The Gravemind tells us something impossible to understand— that most of what has been gathered comes from before there were stars. We do not believe in such a time, but the Mind insists … The life-patterns and living wisdom of a hundred billion years."
I don't believe it's referring to all the knowledge gathered by every Precursor since the beginning of time or of the Domain, there should be a lot more than 100 billion years worth if that were the case
novel plank
So does that imply that the Flood min is and has always been connected and stored in the Domain?
humble yacht
not necessarily
snow void
No, the Domain is also living, it's probably referring to it.
humble yacht
Some think the Flood is connected to the Domain, since it retains it's knowledge even if it's destroyed
snow void
I think that's just a separate function of neural physics used by the Flood
humble yacht
I personally think it's mind is stored is some extradimensional area
snow void
^ Same
novel plank
ah ok
humble yacht
or, could be stored in each cell and only able to be expressed once a sufficient biomass/processing power has been met
novel plank
but imagine if an outside force could tap into the that extradimensional area
imagine if we could access all the information the Gravemind had to offer
snow void
I mean, neural physics, also apparently Forerunners could tap into other dimensions and such
humble yacht
probably would just lead to corruption
either literally or metaphorically
Forerunners use vaccuum energy for some things, which steals potential energy from dying alternate realities
or something like that
when I say "dimension", i mean dimensions like space and time
iirc, string theory suggests 12 dimensions comprise the universe
snow void
I believe it's neural physics that keeps the Gravemind's knowledge, makes prefect sense.
humble yacht
maybe
snow void
Not to mention how he talks about his time being non-existent, as if he was still here.
I still believe the Gravemind intentionally returned Cortana, we know the Flood(at least claimed) can experience the past, present, and future simultaneously. It wouldn't be hard to believe then, that the Gravemind knew Cortana would happen across the Domain. Plus the way he talked also suggested he already had a plan set in motion to return to the universe at a later date than in the games, so I doubt he'd mind dying all that much. Also, realistically(I know it's a game but consider) I don't think the Master Chief would survive plunging into the heart of High Charity where the Grave Mind's completely covered, and successfully retrieve Cortana if the Gravemind were truly trying to stop him(plus it's a small thing, but Halo Legends depicts the Gravemind freely returning Cortana to the Master Chief in a brief clip before showing her corruption with Chief at the end of Halo 3).
humble yacht
where do you get the idea that the Flood experiences the future?
snow void
I believe it was Silentium, let me find the exact quote for you
May take me a bit to find it again, so to re-iterate, some of her former Forerunner warriors were returned(by the Gravemind) to speak to her, they were infected, gave her a message, told her that the Halo array WILL fire, because they've already experienced it, that they experience the past, present, and future simultaneously and explains that the Gravemind's at the Ark(I think it was right before he devastated the Greater Ark). I'm gonna try to find it again, always a chance I just misremember it.
Gah, Google Books blocks me out of any important page
abstract venture
Y'all thinking that shadows of reach gonna have some more Silent Shadow?
It's kind of teased in the name just like Silent Storm
Maybe the faction in it is led by a rogue group of them or smnthng
snow void
If the Halos fire, we will kill our own soul!
“I will send a message,” I tell Forthencho.
His lips crack as he attempts to laugh. “You don’t understand me, Librarian. The effects of Halo radiation are already felt.”
I stare around the circle of wretched humans. I refuse to accept this.
Lord of Admirals holds up both of his hands, holding on to me, then lets go and falls to his knees. He tries to smile. Blood streams from the cracked corners of his lips. Not a kind smile. Like the grin of a wolf.
“The Halos will be fired,” he says. “They are being fired. They have been fired!”
humble yacht
Oh wait
Are you talking about the ancient human remnants Gravemind sent to Earth to taunt the Librarian?
snow void
Yeah, any context I'm missing that shows it to be false?
I mean, could always say it's lies.
humble yacht
The way the Halos work is weird
they fire so fast that the pulse sort of breaks time
snow void
Only for the Flood?
humble yacht
No, it depends on where you are in the galaxy
snow void
So the radiation's spread for a duration before and after the firing? Still, the way it's worded is odd if it's just detection of radiation, that'd mean they're going to fire, not that they're in the 3 difference directions
humble yacht
because the pulse goes faster than light, it breaks relativity
so you can detect the pulse before you fire it because you fired it in the future
something like that
snow void
Well I know what you mean by that, just an odd way for stating it, from the Flood at least. Guess I'll presume it false then though.
humble yacht
But it doesn't have anything to do with the Flood and telling the future
The humans sent by the Flood simply were sent from a zone that had already been hit by the pulse
snow void
It would make sense given the events revolving around the Gravemind
Almost everything that lead Cortana to the Domain was set in action by the Gravemind, even the Ur Didact
humble yacht
I don't think so
Random chance is most likely what sent Chief and Cortana to requiem
that, or Mendicant Bias (but I doubt that)
snow void
Well, they did escape off a ring used to destroy(or at least attempt to destroy) the last of the Flood
snow void
If he knew what was going to happen then he knew the ring would be moving awayfrom the center, the only random chance event would be the direction they were from the ring, one direction(toward the Ark) being the only unviable option, but, if he experienced the future, he'd already know the direction they'd drift
humble yacht
random chance includes any events that occurred during drift
encounters with celestial bodies, etc., that could alter their course
snow void
If there were any significant events beyond stuff you'd know from a star map
humble yacht
why would the Ark's star maps be up to date?
snow void
But none of those points are where my idea falters, the idea falters at the fact the Gravemind should already know everything within the Domain if he in the future gained access to it.
humble yacht
human and covenant presence in the galaxy could have changed alot of things
snow void
I don't think Humans or Covenant blew up stars, let alone stars outside of their galaxy
humble yacht
no but they could have blown up planets or created satellites, or otherwise altered orbits
snow void
Those are very small things
humble yacht
all those slipspace events that occurred during the war could have had effects, too
snow void
And I doubt he was drifting at light speed
A slow drift, with little significant that can interfere, only a Star would be able to alter a short and slow course in any significant manner
Starting to reach the line of semantics though, I like the idea of the story being more than "Evil AI hate people, evil AI kill cause evil"
humble yacht
a planet could alter their path. Planets have signficant gravitational forces compared to half a frigate
an asteroid could have hit them
or other space debris
given the emphasis on Chief's luck throughout the series, it stands to reason that luck led him to where he needed to be
snow void
Yes, that planet was Requiem, with Requiem in the path, likely no other planet would be in the same path. Also asteroids and space debris aren't common enough to hit a small ship drifting through space in a short time period
humble yacht
you know that a far reaching planet like neptune imparts a gravitational effect on planets closer to the sun, like Earth, right?
snow void
fate had us meet as foes
humble yacht
doesn't have to be in the direct path to influence the Dawn
snow void
It does, but I'm pretty sure Chief wasn't drifting in space for 4 billion years.
humble yacht
At the end of the day, I don't like the idea that the Flood directs the events of everything like some people do
so I don't subscribe to that theory
I think the story is fine going the "AI uprising" route without some nefarious background
and I also prefer Cortana to be responsible for her own actions, not inspired or controlled by the flood
agile dragon
I dislike the fact that she's turned into a villianess
snow void
I follow the idea that Cortana died the moment she became fragmented
At least the Cortana we knew in Reach CE, 2, and 3.
agile dragon
=[
humble yacht
Cortana's been fragmenting herself since birth tho
agile dragon
Does spinning off subroutines count?
humble yacht
the difference is she was rampant in Halo 4
snow void
Well she didn't exactly do it to improve herself
In Halo 4 I mean
Or do you mean deterioration?
snow void
No I meant your reference to fragmentation
agile dragon
I wonder if they'll need to come up with therapy/psychologists for AI, like in iRobot
humble yacht
in halo 4, she explicity says she ejected her rampant personality spikes into the Mantle's Approach to down the forcefield around the Composer
snow void
AI therapists for AI
agile dragon
Gravemind would make a great therapist
if he weren't so "end all life"ey
he's literally seen it all
humble yacht
therapist can't really save you from a terminal condition
snow void
I don't mean that part of your reference, forget it, I was asking a small question about something nearly insignificant to this
Ba 'dum tsss
humble yacht
that's like going to a shrink when you have cancer
snow void
Oh nvm you weren't making a pun
humble yacht
nope
snow void
terminal condition
agile dragon
we don't really have an equivalent to thinking yourself to death in humanity though
humble yacht
therapy can make you feel better but it won't stop the deterioration
agile dragon
living yourself to death? (old age?)
snow void
terminal condition, AI therapist for AI, terminal
humble yacht
true. i imagine rampancy is closer to Alzheimers than cancer
progressively degenerative
personality altering
agile dragon
wordplay eh Architect
humble yacht
and ultimately fatal
agile dragon
Alzheimer's is regressive though, no? (In terms of your mental state)
humble yacht
progressive in that it gets worse slowly over time
agile dragon
Either way it sucks.
humble yacht
yep
snow void
My pfp is Adjutant Reflex's symbol, he ran into Mendicant Bias in a rather unfriendly confrontation, it flashes in Cortana's eye in Halo Legends(yeah yeah yeah I know not canon) between Halo 3 and 4 with Chief
snow void
Same symbol's also present on Mendicant Bias's shell
humble yacht
legends is canon but adjunct reflex is not,
snow void
Well Mendicant at least is
humble yacht
i think AR is just a ARG made by bungie
snow void
Regardless of whether or not you consider the ARG content from Bungie's drops to be canon or not, it's still present in Halo Legends at least
snow void
What's not mentioned, the symbol?
Look up a picture of Mendicant Bias's shell, it's right in the middle. And Forerunner AI that shared near-exact same shells lack only the symbol
humble yacht
based on what I can find, the Iris symbol is not Reflex's glyph
it's just the Avatar he chose to post on B.net
snow void
Yeah, but, afterwards it's replaced with Mendicant Bias's glyph when he takes over
humble yacht
So the Iris symbol showing up in Cortana's eye in legends is less about Reflex and more about something else
snow void
It's the same symbol that's hidden all over the Halo 3 ARG clues and such
humble yacht
i know
it's the Iris symbol used for titular ARG
Reflex just coopted that symbol to post on B.net
snow void
It hardly matters, it's still present there to represent him, and changed to represent Mendicant afterwards with Mendicant's own glyph
Regardless of whether or not it's his particular Glyph
snow void
It does seem to connect to Mendicant
humble yacht
in Legends, not so much
snow void
Why does legends need to reference him? He's not even at the heart of what I'm pointing to, he's on the side as another case of the symbol showing up
humble yacht
well you brought it up mentioning Reflex
so i took it as you were focused on reflex
snow void
I'm focused on it appearing in Cortana's eye as she flashes red, as well as it appearing on and around a lot of things relating to Mendicant Bias
humble yacht
k
snow void
Only thing I can really accept it as apart from an actual connection, is a reference to Mendicant Bias vs Offensive Bias with her becoming the Mendicant Bias of an AI vs AI type story a lot of people believe will happen paralleling the Forerunner-Flood war but between Humanity and the Chosen, but, Halo Legends was 10 years ago
I'm off to Youtube for now though, I see I've moved to old cryptic topics of lore that people no longer go after
still ibex
when new alexandria got glassed, roughly how many people did were still stuck there and not evacuated?
hasty locust
Ok, I’m re-reading contact harvest and near the beginning it’s says the UEG has 17 colonies, but now it’s closer to like 800 or something, when did this change and... why?
terse lava
Think under bungie it was 800 colonies, later it became 800 "worlds" (mining planets, orbitals, etc.)
last anchor
800 settlements of various kinds, yes.
Probably cause saying it took the Covenant 30 years to burn 17 worlds is WEIRD.
There might have been 17 original colonies once...maybe like the First Foundings?
terse lava
Likely, the covenant had 74 known worlds at its founding(counting Sangheilios and High Charity)
hasty locust
I prefer the 17 number seems more realistic than 800
Just think of all the resource and such it would take to build up 800 colonies/stations/mining bases
versed helm
Most colonies weren’t very complex
It makes more sense for the covies to take 30 years to glass 800 worlds
stoic hamlet
Most were only a single major city.
stoic hamlet
If we see them, of course
hasty locust
17 shows more desperation and loss
stoic hamlet
And not, you know, Gao
hasty locust
Think about it if you lost like 7/17 you’re gonna be like sad
carmine sleet
Come on, don't you want to know about Jim and his cats on Gao? /s
versed helm
Yeah but if you’re losing hundreds of worlds... I’m sorry but it’s just better
stoic hamlet
“We’ve just had an incredibly important mission on Reach, time to head back to Gao!”
versed helm
17 is kinda lame and restrictive
gilded mason
"We found out something. Seems a conduit to the Domain is buried on Gao."
terse lava
Maybe Gao will be glassed
hasty locust
I’ve seen the number 38 billion for population so spread across 800 worlds seems silly
stoic hamlet
“The Insurrection is an incredibly important threat!”
“Right where are they based?”
“Gao.”
“Gao?”
“Yeah, it’s where like every insurrectionist flees to these days.”
“Shouldn’t we deploy a team to counter them? Gibson has a new unit we could-“
“No no, that’s foolish. We need to let them fester for decades.”
gilded mason
Well, like was said, many of those 800 are things like lone research space stations or asteroid mines.
terse lava
I prer the idea of 800 worlds/settlements. Gives more gravitas to the war.
Otherwise 17...that's just sad
hasty locust
Yeah and it’s sadder to lose that 17 than
terse lava
No that's just embarrassing
hasty locust
Looking back, the 800 may be worlds in UNSC space
gilded mason
(Not just worlds)
stoic hamlet
Yeah it’s 800 settlements