We've also got two Thels, and Orna and Orda.
#lore-and-universe
gilded mason
hasty locust
Did Sangheili have like... months, like what’s their calendar based off if they have one
terse lava
Yep
humble yacht
yea the two Thel's are also confusing
for some time I thought the Thel in Legends was Vadam
terse lava
@gilded masondont forget Ado 'Mortumee and Ardo 'Moretumee
gilded mason
for some time I thought the Thel in Legends was Vadam```
That was actually sort of the plan at first.
obsidian thistle
@humble yacht Its believed that was the plan. But 343i seemingly scrapped that
hasty locust
for some time I thought the Thel in Legends was Vadam```
I too made this mistakeI kinda believe thats why 343i added the clarification into the Definitive Edition of TFOR
Why not Waypoint itself. I have no idea
Would of reached more folks
terse lava
No clue
feral perch
Thel ‘Lodamee was too much of a doofus for me to ever believe he was ‘Vadamee
gilded mason
Sure, he's a dork, but he's got smooth moves.
feral perch
Plus Cole Protocol showed us what ‘Vadamee was up to in the early years. ‘Lodamee was not a Zealot.
terse lava
And he bested 2 demons
Wonder what thel did before the war, seeing as he was already a zealot
hasty locust
So we’ve got Sangheili spartan Armor what about spartan Sangheili Armor hehehhe
wait, thought just got plopped into my brain, what if a Sangheili was abducted into a spartan like program, or heck took the drugs that S4’s use
gilded mason
what about spartan Sangheili Armor hehehhe
Well, we've got a Sangheili-produced Spartan suit sold to the UNSC.
hasty locust
No I mean Unsc produced Armor for elites
gilded mason
I imagine a suit made for Sangheili that does the same general stuff that Mjolnir does isn't off the table for them
Since they know how everything works
hasty locust
Yeah like that^
torpid flare
hello
hasty locust
Hello
torpid flare
are there any elites in odst
versed helm
Elite drop troops are spoilt
gilded mason
I could see joint operations taking place where they both use their drop pods.
versed helm
They get inertial compensators
hasty locust
There’s so many possibilities with the elites and human aliance
versed helm
And control over where their pods go
Human pods are mostly slaved to their preset routes
hasty locust
Yeah so they’ve probably helped upgrade the human HEV
gilded mason
On the way down, an ODST sees his Sangheili buddy spin in circles around his ODST pod.
versed helm
ODST catches fire a little in his pod
gilded mason
lol
hasty locust
I hope we see more joint operations in infinite
terse lava
Agreed
gilded mason
Ye
versed helm
Apparently a new angle of the infinite toy elite was released 👀
gilded mason
Hopefully the mission to Zeta was something the SoS and the UNSC were both involved in
versed helm
I'll see if I can Send a link
gilded mason
Yeah, we all saw the toys, I think
hasty locust
Like there’s so many options and possibilities with the integration of human and elite tech
But we got miners in H5
gilded mason
Wouldn't it be swell if we're actually looking at a multiplayer model
hasty locust
It’s.... it’s beautiful 😢
versed helm
Though his mandibles Guards remind me of the H4/5 ones
Since they dont really cover them
hasty locust
I hope in infinite we hear a guardian nuked hesduros
gilded mason
Now now, I'm sure some Hesduros Elites are nice
hasty locust
Hehhehehehe no
versed helm
I hope its star self combusted effectively killing the planet
Im glad he's got armor in his forearm now
torpid flare
i am ready for classic elites in infinite
versed helm
Im ready for classic soothing elite voices
torpid flare
i can memorize the halo ce elite sound
versed helm
The death sound
torpid flare
the alert sound
terse lava
"By the rings, the arbiter"
versed helm
WAAAAAAAA... A.. A
torpid flare
@terse lava "By the rings, this is too much"
terse lava
"The Journey is not for the likes of you, brute!"
versed helm
"@#$hole..."
torpid flare
"Make me a sandwich"
versed helm
"I like you too"
terse lava
Hm? No level with ally honor guards
versed helm
He probably means luring them into shade turrets
terse lava
Only commandos, majors, ultras, zealots, and commandos
versed helm
To shoot him y'know
terse lava
Ah
torpid flare
i made the famous sangheili in the turret
gilded mason
Only commandos, majors, ultras, zealots, and commandos```
Was one of those commandos meant to be councilors?Heresy, remove this filth
versed helm
I remember a glitch in H2A in which Rtas flew Thanks to flood spores attacking him
terse lava
Yep
terse lava
Of course
torpid flare
i will reinstall halo 2
terse lava
Ok
torpid flare
i will try to betray the elites to make the game twice as fun
with double the enemies
gilded mason
pls no
terse lava
"BY THE FORERUNNERS NOO"
gilded mason
elite 4 hug
not 4 hit
terse lava
Yea
terse lava
You should be cooking then not killing
versed helm
You should be cooking THEM
torpid flare
finally some good food
versed helm
Biggest tragedy in Life isnt death, but to be wasted
torpid flare
@terse lava time to cook you
terse lava
"Ostral, the lore chat has betrayed us.."
gilded mason
i cri
torpid flare
jcrrz and storm vs ado and ostral
terse lava
Wait...
versed helm
Most likely brutes
terse lava
You are wanting to eat sentient beings
torpid flare
a brute is my dad
hasty locust
What happened here
versed helm
Master Chef dish with Sangheili meat
hasty locust
Did I hear H E R E T I C
torpid flare
no, we are doing the lord's work
versed helm
But one can still believe in the great journey while feeding on squids
torpid flare
the sangheili is ugly
hasty locust
By the emporer
versed helm
Only the Hesduros ones
torpid flare
and the classic ones
hasty locust
No^
versed helm
The Hesduros Sangheili must be exterminated
torpid flare
next episode, we will glass sangheilios
versed helm
First start with suban
torpid flare
i already had a dead sangheili in my basement
terse lava
Isn't this your thing settling? Purge the xeno and what not
torpid flare
i will allow brutes to help us
versed helm
I wanna see brutes face off against Hesduros elites
The brutes would have a feeding frenzy
versed helm
Yes
torpid flare
should i glass sangheilios
versed helm
Glass Hesduros instead
torpid flare
nah glass their homeworld
versed helm
First Glass the ugly ones homeworld
torpid flare
fine
terse lava
I think it's more one long running joke then true rp
gilded mason
Oh hey my tag is back to normal.
That took a while
clever fable
Question about a line in Fractures: There's a moment where Bornstellar notes on their trip back to the capital, that he's looking at a fall too large even for his armor to really save him. I feel like this stands in contrast to what we'd expect of Forerunner armor generally, but none more so than what we'd expect of Bornstellar himself considering his importance or possible rank.
We've seen Forerunners take some pretty significant drops in their armor, so I was wondering just how big this might have to be, or if it may be an error?
versed helm
Its more of a running joke than RP
hasty locust
Yes
versed helm
The question is, really
Can Forerunner armour save you if you're falling at terminal velocity
Although it is important to remember that terminal velocity will be different in different places
hasty locust
Chief hit terminal velocity at the beginning of 3 I believe
versed helm
Maybe Forerunners like to hang out in higher than usual G.
clever fable
So maybe the capital has something funky going on that would exceed the expected parameters of his suit's ability to keep him safe?
versed helm
Seems strange that the Forerunners would tune an environment they inhabit so that their armour wouldn't save them at terminal velocity
terse lava
The Capital was very vast, forerunner armor can only do so much to protect someone. Look at Faber and the others who fell through the control room on omega halo
clever fable
I agree.
versed helm
But then, in all likelihood they'd probably never fall.
Or if they did they'd be caught by automated beings or gravity mechanisms.
terse lava
It's like Dust said, it was the capital. They never considered the idea of it being attacked
clever fable
It's been a long time since I last read Silentium, what happened to those who fell through the control room?
terse lava
Died
clever fable
As a result of the fall?
terse lava
Whether from the fall, derbies, extreme heat, or all of the above
versed helm
So apparently the difference between a Class 1 and a Class-whatever combat skin doesn't do much for fall damage xD
Interesting that Bear would've chosen this route
terse lava
We dont know what classes were shown in the trilogy
versed helm
Their armour is his baby, more or less.
clever fable
That's a shame. Was Bear the one who wrote that short story in fractures? That's really the only line I have an issue with.
terse lava
No
clever fable
It just seems odd at first glance.
terse lava
He only did the trilogy
clever fable
Ah.
terse lava
Mhm
Look at..I forget the name atm, another tale from Fracturea with a warrior servant on a gas mine
He was stationed there 15 years prior
clever fable
Keeper of the Storm or some such?
clever fable
Ah wait, I just went to google it and it's Defender, not keeper. Same difference here I guess lol.
terse lava
He changed his name to that
torpid flare
what would win, an ICBM or a corvette
versed helm
What kind of corvette?
A Covenant corvette, definitely yes
A human corvette has a good chance of taking it out with its PDGs as well
In fact, if it's a modern ICBM, taking it out is almost a certainty
terse lava
Yep
cloud trellis
I have groundbreaking questions?
during the start of the Spartan 2 program, orphans were kidnapped and were replaced by genetics clones? right
cloud trellis
and were replaced by genetic clones?
gilded mason
Yes, flash clones.
cloud trellis
what are flash clones?
why can't we have an army of Master chief's who are all lucky
gilded mason
Clones quickly formed to the specified age, but a cost to this was massive and later fatal health problems
cloud trellis
if humanity mastered cloning we can have an unstopable army
versed helm
Star wars style
Army of Master Chief clones
@cloud trellis Also, the first lot weren't orphans.
The Spartan IIIs were all children who were orphaned during the Covenant War.
The Spartan IIs were everything from homeless kids to the children of wealthy families.
cloud trellis
ok
not only are they the strongest space fleet in the world now
but they have untapped potential!!!
gilded mason
strongest space fleet in the world
Hm...
gilded mason
ye lol
versed helm
FeelsBadMan
gilded mason
There there
cloud trellis
i guess the robot people from halo 4 might be better
and 5
what were they called?
gilded mason
You would want...Orion Arm. I guess. But it still would'nt be the best
versed helm
Do we know whats on the perseus arm of the galaxy in Halo?
Like old Forerunner Installations or covie outposts
hasty locust
200,000 chiefs are ready with a million more well on the way
dull fox
we know Dr. Halsey was able to clone her brain to use to create Cortana, but has humanity ever cloned a full person?
dull fox
or a fully functional person, is what I meant, sry
not including the Spartan II flash clones, since they didn't survive long
feral perch
Some flash clones did actually survive and live fairly normal lives I think.
At least one?
Probably at least one.
versed helm
Daisy's flash clone?
feral perch
She was crippled iirc.
hasty locust
Halo legends😒
I wanna see more sketchy ONI ops during and after the war
Like I wonder if they ever tried to steal some Sangheili eggs and raise them into ultimate soldiers
torpid flare
I would like to see an alliance between brutes and humans
versed helm
Mammalbois
tender ginkgo
Was rewatching Terminals and now wonder what would have happened had Fal Chavemee had succeeded in his rebellion against the San'Shyuum
bright briar
I'm going to go ahead and say, if he survived the duel, they'd hit him with orbital bombardment or at least something airborne that he can't stab.
winter trail
Anyone know what arbiter was doing between the ending of halo 3 and 4
humble yacht
Yes. Maintaining a tentative alliance with the UNSC, trying to prevent civil war on Sanghelios, and helping clear I05 of flood
carmine sleet
He was in a comic
gilded mason
Halo Wars: Genesis
polar trellis
how'd they fit 60 rds in the MA5B and why'd they switch the 32 rd mags
feral perch
To the first question, cool factor. To the second question, the MA5C uses 32 rd mags for gameplay balance because it’s much more accurate.
That’s my take on it, anyway.
polar trellis
yeah I know the gameplay explanation
but I wondered if there was a lore explanation
feral perch
Although the general trend from CE-3 was to reduce magazine size and spare ammunition
polar trellis
The MA5 has a pretty long magazine well
so i can imagine like
a quad stack
might be able to fit 60
but that'd be a wiiiiiiiide gun
feral perch
Some people think its in-game appearance is not canon
polar trellis
I mean if you just made it
in the rear
it'd prob fit a quad
no one makes a quad stack 7.62x51 mag but it's the future so
🤷♀️
Halo Alpha lists the effective range of the MA5Ba series as 300m but Halopedia says 40m
obviously the former makes a lot more sense like
in real firefights
so im guessing halopedia has it just listed as the gameplay range
I like the look of the MA5
versed helm
So what type of Forerunner A.I is Enduring Bias?
polar trellis
it's kinda big and clunky but seems like something that'd be fun
carmine sleet
Enduring Bias was a Monitor, Van Hellsing
polar trellis
yea
versed helm
I think that the primary thing 343 needs to look at with the AR is the ammunition itself.
7.62x51 is good, powerful ammo for sure
But it's not an intermediate cartridge and it undercuts the visual design
polar trellis
I mean
versed helm
They need to invent a sci-fi round that can work with the magazines
polar trellis
technically
it's not an assault rifle
yeah
but i wouldn't be using intermediate rounds against like
elites
or brutes
versed helm
And probably chamber the MA5B is something different to the other MA5s
To explain the radically different performance
polar trellis
i guess
versed helm
Intermediate cartridges are sorta defined by performing as well as full-power cartridges up close
But because they're shorter bois
They're less ballistically stable at long range
But they have the same muzzle energy because the round is lighter
His description says this
Roughly hexagonal, with three lenses on one side[1]
So really, it's like a ammo mass/recoil vs range tradeoff
carmine sleet
They're still a Monitor, Van Hellsing
versed helm
And the thing that defines assault rifles is that they sacrifice that range to have more ammo for automatic fire
That's why intermediate cartridges exist
polar trellis
yeah
versed helm
True
polar trellis
if we're trying to fix all the things that are realistically inconsistent with reality
versed helm
Is that a) they're old as heck, not really supported by how these weapons are used in the books, and 343 has never brought them up
polar trellis
the magnum being recoil op bothers me too then
gilded mason
@versed helm
There's this theory from a few years ago:
https://old.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/570rfg/is_enduring_bias_a_metarch_or_contenderclass/d8ox03z/
versed helm
You know,it sucks that the whole Janus Key story went nowhere
And that b) in the case of the AR, it differs from modern assault rifles because modern ARs are designed for sustained semi-auto fire with the ability to go full auto
But the MA5 is build around full auto fire
And has the recoil reduction systems for that
polar trellis
ye
versed helm
So while it can be used on semi-auto and probably has greater range that way
polar trellis
it really feels more like
a suppressing fire weapon
if we were thinking of modern doctrine at least
versed helm
Ordinarily it is used on auto it seems so that you can put multiple AP rounds into a target wearing body armour
But yeah
Huge parallels, I think, between MA5s and the M27 IAR
At least as-is, canonically speaking
polar trellis
another thing
does the UNSC just reject left handed people
like everything they use is bullpup
...
you know
versed helm
Bullpup does, in the long run, translate to better accuracy, range and terminal ballistics.
polar trellis
it's kinda ironic
versed helm
As a trade-off of handling.
polar trellis
that the sniper isn't bullpup
as it's something that would definitely benefit from having a loooooooong barrel
versed helm
But remember, because of HUD targeting UNSC soldiers don't put their face next to the ejection port all the time
Or a left-handed shooter wouldn't
So they wouldn't run into that issue as badly
versed helm
They'd be shouldering it like Chief does on the cover of CE
Shouldered as if to look down the sights
But neck straight
polar trellis
what, the Tavor deflects brass forward enough for lefty shooting right
at least without cheek weld
versed helm
Yeah, and the MA5D from Halo 5 actually had an external brass deflector
But
The new MA40 doesn't seem to
So you have to assume an internal mechanism
polar trellis
they should just bring it all back and make it forward ejecting like the F2000 just to meme on the original designer
versed helm
They'd have room for it.
polar trellis
now we're making it more like the F2000
versed helm
Between the barrel and the flashlight
polar trellis
ye
versed helm
Good thinking. Maybe in the game after Infinite xD
polar trellis
there's something really beautiful about the shotgun's design ngl
i love the top feed tube
sure you need yet another tube for the pump
but
ehhhh
honestly you could've probably put the pump around the barrel
versed helm
There's actually supposed to be two tubes in that top assembly.
polar trellis
but then you have heat
versed helm
Which is why it initially could hold 12 rounds.
versed helm
I guess
I assume the difference between the ones that hold 6 and the ones that hold 12 is number of tubes
polar trellis
I just really like how
comfy the shotgun seems it'd be
i'd love it
Russia made a top mag tube shotgun
that was cool
versed helm
A real body pillow of a gun
versed helm
Saucy
polar trellis
it's kinda neat
it pumps backwards
i could talk about this way too much
i've always been obsessed with the halo guns
versed helm
Welcome to the club
polar trellis
there are things to nitpick
versed helm
They're the reason I know anything about guns at all
polar trellis
but there are also things to love about them
polar trellis
perfectly balanced
yeah i think halo guns are probably what got me so into guns when i was younger
dusty pilot
16.5mm*
versed helm
9.5x40 should not be more accurate than 7.62x51
16.5mm would just compound the problem
It's too thicc
dusty pilot
yessss the thicccc
versed helm
If you want the BR to be more accurate you want it to fire a ballistically stable round
polar trellis
^^^^
versed helm
It would arguably hit somewhat less hard
But that reflects gameplay
Where per-hit, excluding headshots, the MA5 does more damage
polar trellis
yeah but gameplay ranges are
very close
to the point that really ballistic performance like that might be kinda negligible
versed helm
Yeah but we know from Contact Harvest that the BR is accurate out like a kilometer
And the AR is not
versed helm
Don't get me started
polar trellis
im gonna get muted
versed helm
I accidentally do it one more time
polar trellis
yeah
versed helm
It's worked out for a couple weeks
versed helm
The Halopedia server is cool
polar trellis
speaking of not saying no no words
versed helm
Anyway
polar trellis
i think it's kinda funny looking back and realizing halo got M ratings
we really were a lot more prudish back in the 2000s
versed helm
CE did have a lot of blood
One of its better qualities
Almost comedic amounts by modern standards
I love the way it kinds mists in the air
polar trellis
it was always funny to paint areas by meleeing bodies
versed helm
Ah, yeah, nice catch
I've been talking about the tank a lot recently
So i just had a thought about the Reformists,so why didn't they use any of their advanced technology to fix their genetic problems?
gilded mason
Based on the Prelates, that was something they were looking into.
versed helm
Didn't they use some of that tech to increase their lifespan?
versed helm
How dangerous is a Prelate compared to a Spartan?
Wait,when were the Prelates created?
gilded mason
Seems to bring them to the level of Spartans and the more skilled Sangheili.
versed helm
It would've been awesome to fight a Prelate
Is it possible that any non-Covenant alien races also worshiped the Forerunners as gods?
gilded mason
Certainly possible
carmine sleet
It's not like worshipping Forerunners as gods is something that only the Covenant could do
versed helm
I mean,Forerunner tech was peppered all over the galaxy right?
gilded mason
Yes.
terse lava
Yea, and we do know primitive ancient humans venerated the librarian
versed helm
So basically every alien race that was successfully indexed and reseeded on their respective home worlds was sent back to Tier 7,other than the San'Shyuum and the Sangheili,what other races could've rapidly advanced to being space faring by using Forerunner tech?
terse lava
Any that know how to figure it out
gilded mason
what other races could've rapidly advanced to being space faring by using Forerunner tech?
Just as a note, Sangheili did all that before using Forerunner tech
terse lava
That too
San shyuum were the only ones that needed forerunner tech to leave their homeworld
full forge
The Unggoy hadn't even managed to leave by the time the covenant found them.
tender ginkgo
Anyone else think that the Created and possible return of the Flood could be the final test of Humanity by the Precursors before they can assume the Mantle of Responsibility
gilded mason
Nah.
full forge
Any return of the flood as suggested by the precursors would have to be on a never before seen since the forerunners galactic scale.
feral perch
Nah. The Precursors don’t care about what’s going on in the galaxy. And the Flood probably won’t be back.
carmine sleet
I highly doubt that Andromeda's gonna be Flood infested
Plus, any sort of large scale Flood invasion of the Milky Way would make Halo 3's ending feel pointless as surely if the Flood was able to return in such a fashion, they would've done it during Halo 2 or 3 instead of waiting
terse lava
Plus you know, other galaxies would still have precursors in them defending their new creations. So the flood are kinda out of luck
tender ginkgo
Though it’s highly unlikely it would be cool to see a Precursor appear in the games
jolly furnace
I'm not sure we'll get true precursors in a game or EU lore
And it there are true precursors left in other galaxies they dont nessecarily have to be at tier 0.
They've been thorugh every tier countless times
that's what they do
they could be at tier 1 or tier 7 for all we know
if some are still around in other galaxies
If so, they would be screwed against intergalactic level/neural physics wielding Flood
tender ginkgo
That’s why I said highly unlikely. Though a Tier 0 Precursor would be cool but still very unlikely
jolly furnace
Yeah but that breaks the setting utterly
no force in modern halo or ancient halo was able to stand up to tier 0 precursors if they wanna be serious
remember they let the forerunners win in their war
if they hadnt, the forerunners would have been utterly screwed
assuming of course those precursors at the time were tier 0
for all we know they have taken new forms and tiers by then
and just lived among their own tier 0 creations
like AH did on charum hakkor
tender ginkgo
Who said they had to fight. Maybe a Tier 0 Precursor appears to finally bestow the Mantle upon humanity. Doubt 343 will do that but one can always dream
gilded mason
Maybe a Tier 0 Precursor appears to finally bestow the Mantle upon humanity.
That would be awful. Unless the Precursor was potrayed as wrong and extremely out of touch.
tender ginkgo
Ehhh I disagree but anyway pretty sure 343 won’t do that so it’s just a hypothetical
feral perch
Wait, why do you think the Precursors let the Forerunners drive them to near-extinction?
tender ginkgo
The precursors found death to be fascinating and hot aroused by it in a creepy manner
The violence inflicted them was a new experience
humble yacht
that sounds like the "The Flood let themselves be defeated" argument some Flood/precursor enthusiasts on Waypoint like to assert
feral perch
I think that’s just your headcanon, MC5
humble yacht
that's a good idea
tender ginkgo
Could be wrong
feral perch
If your source is the Primordial or a Gravemind, those are quintessential unreliable narrators
Their stories flip and contradict based on who they’re trying to influence
tender ginkgo
I think it was the Didact who thought that the Precursors let themselves lose thought not sure if it was the Ur or ISO
gilded mason
Are you talking about back when the Flood let everyone believe humans found a cure for the Flood?
gilded mason
Ah.
tender ginkgo
Always wandered what the Primordial told the human scientists that was so horrible that they committed suicide
feral perch
I think that was Greg Bear's attempt at being edgy.
humble yacht
shakes fist at GB
feral perch
There was a similar plot point in an episode of Doctor Who, where people who read a document called Veritas would commit suicide.
Turns out, everybody in that world wasn't real, they were just one big simulation of earth and its people.
Even though everything seemed entirely real.
I doubt there's anything as large scale and existentially terrifying as that in Halo. Unless it turns out that everyone is already absorbed into the Flood collective and nothing that's happened has been real.
And that would be super lame, I might add.
obsidian thistle
Well I doubt Halo would do that unless they wanted to make folks feel like they wasted 20 years xD
Cause thats 1 issue with simulation stories. It pulls a lotta the risk out of stuff.
*Granted a lotta risk has been removed thanks to Believe.
And knowing humanity survive into the 2610s
feral perch
Only a few folks would continue to care if humanity didn't survive though
jolly furnace
@tender ginkgo Probably told them the truth of the Flood and/or eldritch truths about the nature of existence and reality
Loveraftian horror stuff im sure
obsidian thistle
I think the scarier thought is not knowing what was said
tender ginkgo
True since as a fan of Lovecraft I’d be fine with not knowing what the Primordial said
obsidian thistle
That said the Flood kinda makes anything immortal that gets infected. A well of voices; undying and forever existing. Kinda a scary thought tbh knowing as long as a Gravemind exists you exist if you are infected.
I'd imagine that "could" be something that makes people lose the will to live.
tender ginkgo
A timeless choir you might say
humble yacht
Arguable that “you” exist since you eventually aren’t you anymore
tender ginkgo
Yeah did t the terminals show that Keyes was having his personality stripped away by the ProtoGravemind
obsidian thistle
You can be yanked out like how the Gravemind essentially yanked Regret from death.
Tbh that could be argued that was the Gravemind puppeting him.
jolly furnace
I mean death over eternal suffering in a hive mind
i think most would choose death
tender ginkgo
Yeah Chief destroying Keyes head was a mercy kill
humble yacht
Regret was a fresh addition
I doubt after time passes that he could be “yanked out”
jolly furnace
Sadly i think keyes was already absorbed into the hive mind
so even though MC punched his skull in, it may have been too late
tender ginkgo
The fact that Keyes resisted so long makes the man a hero to humanity
obsidian thistle
It may depend on the phase of Flood. The Alpha Halo infection was ferel. Building a Protogravemind. 
jolly furnace
basically it seems the essences of the victims still exist to some extent in the hive mind
I mean you cant really suffer if you have no individuality anymore
And GM wants its victims to suffer
obsidian thistle
Well in a Ferel state. The Flood may less preserve and more use the memories.
gilded mason
Though in the terminal, Gravemind was apparently talking to him.
jolly furnace
Yeah he was
humble yacht
:/
jolly furnace
I mean he existed on 05 by then i think
humble yacht
I really don’t like all the retconning the flood went through
obsidian thistle
The Flood didnt used to be Corrupted Precursor dust by lack of an actual origin known.
humble yacht
Well in this instance, it used to be that a gravemind didn’t exist until coordinated stage, so for the gravemind to be talking to Keyes in a feral stage outbreak doesn’t mesh with that
humble yacht
If the I05 gravemind could connect to the I04 outbreak then they wouldn’t have been in feral stage in the first place
humble yacht
So then how did it talk to Keyes?
obsidian thistle
It didnt. I think it was more a early state of the Proto-Gravemind tbh
jolly furnace
idk
humble yacht
If that connection could be made with Keyes then it could have been made with every other flood form
jolly furnace
Maybe it was only put in for the horror vibe
Maybe it could only talk to him when he was being absorbed
who knows
obsidian thistle
I had a feeling the Keyes terminal dialogue was a lil more... "raw" some could say than stuff the fully formed Gravemind would say
humble yacht
The fact there was communication at all beyond flashes of images just irks me
Really takes away from the impact of the gravemind if a proto has a semi consciousness to it
obsidian thistle
Well he was like injected right into the Proto-Gravemind. And we have very few POVs of characters infected.
So its hard to say a lot. But I get it. I can see why some could see that.
Plus
Bungie era lore had it talk
obsidian thistle
jolly furnace
thats gross
obsidian thistle
The infected Legate talked
jolly furnace
There is much talk. And I have listened
sorry couldnt help it
someone was typing?
obsidian thistle
But yea @humble yacht its something 343i cant really ignore that the Proto-gravemind can do. It even talked though a infected Elite. (To be honest I do have a lil issue with that as that is more than just internal dialogue between hosts at that point)
jolly furnace
i dont recall it talking through an elite
obsidian thistle
jolly furnace
huh...
ok then
well it is what it is then
But i do think the GM on 05 was there before CE took place
obsidian thistle
Oh no doubt. No one really has a issue with that
Its just the range of the Gravemind that was in question lol
jolly furnace
No
I mean the rings would be 1000s of LY apart
It has no FTL ships at that point
So it can't its range too far
It needs keyminds to do it
And in those locations
the GMs and Key Minds an keyminds act like nodes
The Primordial needs those to extend it range
and communicate with the Flood forms
I think anyway
terse lava
Yea, itndid compare itself to mendicant as a "hundred billion" instances
jolly furnace
Yeah that
terse lava
Ask for keys I always figured that was the beginning intelligence of the proto grave mind as the Halo novel the flood showed that the creature could talk
abstract venture
In the flood Pheonix logs for hw2
I remember it stating that flood combat forms regularly talked to people for psychological warfare or something
And they were in a protogravemind stage at the time
terse lava
Yes, they would use the hist voice and memories for that, or allow the host themselves to talk
You know looking back on that comic, outside of plot why didnt Bero's group make it to the phantom? Wasnt Rtas's group the bigger threat?
terse lava
Anyone else find that odd?
abstract venture
Probably just circumstance
terse lava
Maybe, but one would think the flood would have left Bero's group alone once they saw rtas heading for engineering
terse lava
Was wondering on Fal meeting with the hierarch. Before his heresy, could it be argued that the rank of arbiter was 2nd only to the hierarchs themselves
torpid flare
i betrayed the elites in halo 2
versed helm
As the... Arbiter?
torpid flare
yes
and it is fun escaping from elites saying i am rogue arby, hahahaha silly elites
versed helm
Tetris
Why do you hate elites so much
Beyond how they murdered like a bunch of our species
Why do you want to
Yeet the eleets
torpid flare
they glassed our colonies
terse lava
Hm
abstract venture
Rip to africa
terse lava
Could have let earth become a flood hive
But chose not too
As for the colonies...here's an olive garden gift card for $200
terse lava
Mhm, the sangheili saved the galaxy
versed helm
Tbh
The Flood, the UNSC and the Elites were like equally responsible
The crux of the galaxy-saving was stopping Truth
But there was also 04
Which could have gone real bad if Chief and Cortana didn't blow it
There was stopping the Flood on 05, which was very much a Sangheili gig so good on them
And firing 08 on the Ark was UNSC/Sangheili
terse lava
Still none of it could have been done without the sangheili
versed helm
And not much of it couldn't have been done without humans either
And at least one important bit couldn't have gone down without The Flood
Therein lies my point
It's all a madhouse
terse lava
Fair
Though would say humans caused the main problem
Left a frigate over a flood zone, allowed themselves to be captured, and caused the halos to be activated
versed helm
Can't argue with the first bit
But if our ignorance of that zone being a flood zone doesn't excuse us
the Covenant's ignorance of the nature of the halos doesn't excuse them from doing the capturing and the activating
versed helm
Oh yeah, there totally was.
Everyone was real surprised when they started jumping out
And nobody mentioned it before
terse lava
Jumping out?
versed helm
Ambushing and infecting everyone
I mean, I assume the quarantine shield was obscuring their presence. Plus, Gravemind, they could easily have been playing smart.
But there's no way you can assert that they knew the Flood were there before landing
terse lava
My point is, they knew they were over a flood zone, and rather then use only small transports like the covenant did, they gave the parasites a full combat vessel
gilded mason
Then again...
terse lava
They were in there before the shields eve. Fell
versed helm
No, they were just ahead.
gilded mason
Might the Gravemind have teleported the Flood onto IAC?
versed helm
They couldn't have been in.
The shield was preventing any access
I feel like you may be forgetting basic pieces of logic
terse lava
Looter, there are human combat forms as soon as the shield is dropped
versed helm
Yeah, because they got attacked slightly beforehand
The Flood are fast bro
Doesn't make sense for there to be Elite forms
terse lava
Its implied the sentinels let the humans in
versed helm
Where?
terse lava
You dont encounter sangheili combat forms until later
terse lava
I said implied due to the fact there are already human combat forms around. And you never see the sentinels engage the pelican flying overhead
versed helm
Thel lets down the shield --> UNSC troops go over on the gondola --> Arbiter follows --> UNSC troops get infected when the UNSC gondola arrives --> Arbiter encounters those troops.
It's tight timing
But it's entirely feasible and I think the most acceptable interpretation
torpid flare
interesting
terse lava
Uh looter
The gondola was in the quarantine zone level...not the sacred icon level where the shields are dropped
versed helm
... Lemme check something.
terse lava
......
versed helm
No dude
Because the Flood first ambush you after a gondola ride
There's multiple gondolas
terse lava
There is only one technically, thr one where you shut down the shields was not considered one. Why I dont know
versed helm
Look, if the Covenant didn't know about the Flood
There's no way the UNSC would have either
torpid flare
why are flood levels repetitive
versed helm
I've never found them that bad
terse lava
The covenant only sent in commando units and dropships. They were aware of the flood
versed helm
Is that made explicit?
terse lava
I would say by their actions, otherwise why not just send a cruiser to deal with the problem rather then just an arbiter and commando units. You never encounter a regular covenant trooper un the quarantine zone
Though could be argued truth did that to kill more sangheili
versed helm
Because the Covenant are absolutely unwilling to use any kind of orbital asset for close support on a Halo ring.
They just won't do it. It cost them 04.
terse lava
I met for transport and a base, not to glass the area
versed helm
I would say that that's a relatively minor bit of logic.
They didn't really have that much to gain from doing so.
terse lava
shrug maybe
versed helm
From where I'm sitting your logic seems a little bit biased.
But I would prefer to go with an outcome that doesn't make anyone seem especially incompetent, beyond what cannot be avoided
The whole Quarantine Zone situation was likely an elaborate Gravemind trap.
terse lava
My original point was simply that humanity knew of the flood, they fought it during this battle. And yet they parked a frigate there. I guess it would be far more accurate to say Miranda was incompetent
She knew all this and allowed it
Could have kept the frigate far away and just pelicans in troops
versed helm
If anything your argument is that she didn't react fast enough
Like I said, there is not a shred of indication that she had any knowledge of the Flood before they were upon her.
terse lava
"Negative ma'am, they are not covenant"
terse lava
Alright I will go this route
versed helm
That was what I meant by "when the flood came upon her".
That was the moment, when the dude said that, and it was already too late.
terse lava
Let's say she didnt know of the flood until the frigate was parked there
terse lava
She never once ordered it moved
versed helm
That's what I assumed you were saying because it's a more rational argument
terse lava
Yes
versed helm
And my counterpoint would be, given that we're dealing with a Gravemind here and we don't know a lot about the capturing of the In Amber Clad, it could easily have already been too late.
Ostral made the teleportation argument, which is very valid.
gilded mason
👋
terse lava
I would consent to that, except one flaw
And one now that I think on it odd. He teleports flood on to the Clad. He teleports chief onto high charity and the arbiter to the control room. However he never teleports flood onto the covenant fleet that we see
Rather carrier forms are used as boarding parties
versed helm
Well, we can assume his ability to use the teleport was controlled by variables we don't have knowledge of.
gilded mason
Maybe it takes quite a bit of power to teleoprt things, and he only did a few infection forms onto the ship?
versed helm
Alternately, maybe the Flood managed to get aboard a pelican very quickly.
Perhaps the order of events is that a pelican carried the initial wave of Marines in as soon as the shield was down
And then that pelican was compromised almost immediately
terse lava
I can concede to that
versed helm
I do wish there was more lore surrounding this mission, though.
terse lava
Although where would be the question as we see the combat forms within moments of the sheild going down
Agreed
gilded mason
Short story time
gilded mason
Or...Canon Fodder time
terse lava
Please
versed helm
One drops off troops and takes off, only for those troops to get instantly overrun and for something to have snuck aboard the Pelican
And because the Flood have got those Gravyboi smarts they manage to return to IAC, the hangar crew get infected, and it snowballs from there
But some overheard dialogue between IAC and Miranda would have been wonderful
feral perch
I can see the Flood sneaking onto IAC via a Pelican going down in the reverse of The Mona Lisa.
terse lava
I always thought that was the case anyway
feral perch
Buuut IAC is so close to the surface, some Flood forms could have just jumped up there.
gilded mason
some Flood forms could have just jumped up there.
Not that close
terse lava
Hm another plot hole i realized, why bother with the gondola from a covenant view when they could just fly phantoms in
versed helm
Sentinels?
terse lava
Just have to activate the thing and hover near it like tartarus did
versed helm
They drive off Tartarus initially
versed helm
What about the possibility that a lot of the Covenant weirdness in that mission was occurring because the opening salvos of the Schism were happening at the time
feral perch
Well, maybe the Flood developed a biomass canon that could launch forms up to great heights?
heh
terse lava
I can only picture the gravemind trying that and failing like Will E. Coyote
Some miss, some splat against the hull
novel plank
He is a curious and explorative being
Hello, noob here; what do tiers imply?
And whatever advancements it specifically regards, does it speak of sentient species in general or civilizations as a whole?
terse lava
Curious zombie George
torpid flare
which is worse? Forerunners or the Covenant?
novel plank
Forerunners lol
feral perch
Forerunners
novel plank
Covenant are dumb as hek
terse lava
@novel planktiers were what the forerunners and later covenant used as a yardstick on how advanced a civilization was
gilded mason
Yes.
terse lava
Yep
novel plank
Awesome time to read up
Thanks yall
terse lava
Welcome
As for the other question, in what regard?
The forerunners genocides their own creators and other races and eventually the galaxy. On the other side they helped protect the galaxy too. Meanwhile the Covenant did the same song and dance, but unites multiple races
Also while it sucked for them as a caste, the unggoy were saved by the covenant
torpid flare
why?
terse lava
Why what
torpid flare
the unggoy was saved
novel plank
Umm yeah the unggoy were not saved lol
terse lava
They would have gone extinct
gilded mason
Despite the low place they have in the Covenant hierarchy, the true irony is that the Unggoy's entry into the Covenant has ensured their species' survival. Membership in the Covenant granted the Unggoy freedom from risk of extinction during Balaho's two winters, as they now have access to sufficient supplies of food. Infant mortality has decreased to below fifty percent, and geronticide is no longer a necessity for survival. The average life expectancy for non-combatant Unggoy has doubled. Their incorporation into the Covenant likely also alleviated the threat of the Blue Death, which Unggoy typically fear.
terse lava
👍 @gilded mason
gilded mason
👍 @terse lava
terse lava
So yes, the Covemant did save the unggoy race
versed helm
They're not fundamentally stupid
gilded mason
I wouldn't say they're stupid
versed helm
If anything their seeming stupidity is a result of the way the Covenant utilize them
Or rather, utilized. Past tense.
Things seem to be looking up on the grunty side of things.
gilded mason
terse lava
They were actually very smart
novel plank
Well they didnt learn and grow quick enough
gilded mason
They grow very quickly, actually.
terse lava
They were capable of learning multiple human languages and grow very fast
They are considered teens by..9 years I believe
terse lava
shrug
gilded mason
They are considered teens by..9 years I believe
A bit shorter:
Adulthood is reached between the ages of 5 and 8 years.
novel plank
They were capable of learning multiple human languages and grow very fast
The languages thing is cool tho
Hopefully that was with some actual scribes and deacons heralding with the swords of sanghelios and not just kidnapped and experimented on by oni spooks during the hu-cov war
novel plank
Oh wow
sacred dew
They also like human space operas
terse lava
Yep
novel plank
Lol please tell me where in a lore universe about space wars does human space operas come in
gilded mason
They also like human space operas```
Soap opera, not space opera.The question still stand lol
torpid flare
arby and chief is good show
terse lava
Ok
torpid flare
ado is not good elite, he is bad because he shot me when i try to exist
terse lava
....huh?
torpid flare
please give mercy
gilded mason
Your gimmick is getting old, Tetris.
torpid flare
ok
terse lava
Yea, it has been a bit...dull
torpid flare
ok, i quit my hating.
terse lava
K
torpid flare
can i be elite
gilded mason
Nobody is stopping you.
torpid flare
alright, i will be back
terse lava
Hm, I wonder how thorough the great journey was to the covenant. Just their physical bodies or their armor/clothing too
terse lava
Not what I met but ok
torpid flare
you got answer from a stupid idiot, so expect silly answer
like seriouslu, it is like pputting blue background and rred text, it looks stupid
unique rune
O.... kayyy...
Am kinda curious about how those details of the Great Journey would work now that you've mentioned it...
torpid flare
great journey is actually terrible idea. they wanted to use rings to transcend themselves. you learned the rings are dangerous in halo ce
terse lava
Well it came to me when it appears the covenant never found forerunner remains or, apparently armor
versed helm
I wonder if we'll ever see the Ussans again
lyric hinge
just watched a video about how opressed grunts were
static trench
MC really needs to get his hands on a Combat Skin
final cedar
He needs the level 12 combat skin
jolly furnace
He wont
at least not permanently
His own armor is too iconic
so dont expect him to don forerunner or AH armor in future
feral perch
where would he get either of those?
abstract venture
There's Hellcat Mjolnir tho
humble yacht
that's based on ancient humans
stoic hamlet
Obviously he’ll just find a forerunner suit that looks exactly like his MJOLNIR/343 will find a way to give him Forerunner armour in the style of Mark VI, probably as a UNSC Variant.
Wouldn’t be the first time absurd armour choices happened.
Looking at you Collateral Damage/SS/O
fair hazel
huh? I don't get it
also, armour wraps could do it
Have armour wraps go on his armour, and then it retains the look, or very similar.
lunar drum
What’s armour wraps?
stoic hamlet
Was a joke about how all the recent super early HCW books have Blue Team using unique armour literally days after they all wore stock standard.
lunar drum
Gotcha
feral perch
Just be glad that CD/SS/O ditched TFOR-AS Mark IV
lunar drum
Do you guys think they’ll bring back some older models of spartan armour back
stark dust
ofc
lunar drum
I hope so
stark dust
thats what they implied with the toy releases
stoic hamlet
See, it wasn’t that bad.
The issue was the helmets, but otherwise they were wearing the same armour.
It’s not great, but it’s better than whatever the heck Collateral Damage decided to do.
lunar drum
Some of those models look very nice
feral perch
The ugly thruster packs made it bad
terse lava
@lunar drum armor wraps were a forerunner device that would be added on to normal forerunner armor, making into a combat skin
terse lava
Welcome
sacred dew
Is that like the upgrade seed in renegades
terse lava
I wouldn't so, as it did upgrade the ship it didnt change it much. It would be like tskingnyour normal clothes and with a special wrap, making them battle armor
clever fable
It'd be cool if HELLCAT got field tested in a novel or something. Has 343i mentioned the armor at all beyond its debut in H5's multiplayer?
carmine sleet
No
ancient path
Yes
terse lava
Would rather have a novel based on ancient humans
ancient path
Agreed, that would be pretty cool.
which book was the one with the teenage forerunner?
Cryptum?
carmine sleet
It's not appeared anywhere else, wubbA
ancient path
wasnt a fan of that one tbh
jolly furnace
AH novel trilogy anyone?
ancient path
yeh i was just kidding my bad lol
jolly furnace
Halo Antediluvian - explores ancient human culture before the flood show up.
Halo Deluge - human-flood war book
Halo Ragnarok- human-forerunner war and human defeat book
Or something like that
ancient path
yeah we dont know much about the ancient human flood war
hell or ancient humans in general
terse lava
We only know really that some like LOA were polytheistic while others venerated precursor relics
torpid flare
who created the precursors? and why did the precursors get wiped off by forerunners?
humble yacht
- we don't know
- because the forerunners were fearful and arrogant
torpid flare
makes sense, i would like to see the prehistoric era, even before precursors. Most likely, the books would explain the origins of precursors
humble yacht
that would be... terrible
it was bad enough when the forerunners were the creations of a god-like mysterious race
who makes the precursors then? and even more godly race called the Originators? when does it end?
torpid flare
welp, i didn't expect to be a bad idea. it is just me thinking about prehistoric things.
abstract venture
Yo how do u guys feel about Kelly's speed?
Since as of right now she's extremely slow compared to many Spartans
carmine sleet
She's the fastest of the Spartans
abstract venture
By statements
carmine sleet
Where are you getting that she's slow from?
abstract venture
But there's close to a dozen Spartans who have ran faster than her stated top speed
Some of them close to double her top speed
torpid flare
what is the top speed of kelly
humble yacht
65 kph
abstract venture
I think 64 kph in Mk VI from GoO and her waypoint page says 65+ kph in Gen 2
Whch us pretty slow compared to what other Spartans have accomplished, even in older armors
torpid flare
that is fast, if you assume that you double the speed, that is faster than highway speedlimits
which is like 60 mph
abstract venture
Chief does twice, his sprint in FoR is 106 kph and in Palace Hotel he does 72 kph
humble yacht
that doesn't really make sense
humble yacht
where'd you get that idea
torpid flare
oddly specific number
abstract venture
Everyone in Fireteam Osiris outrun speeding Ghosts in H5s intro
Linda does it in Lone Wolf
You get the idea
humble yacht
they were sliding down a hill after having dropped out a pelican
abstract venture
Kelly is slow
torpid flare
that is 82 mph for maximum speed for ghosts
abstract venture
Yes
humble yacht
if kelly dropped from a pelican and slid down an icy mountain, she'd go faster too
but that's not really the way to judge someone's top speed
abstract venture
What are you talking about
torpid flare
what is the fastest ground vehicle
carmine sleet
I don't recall anything anywhere saying that Noble Team were sprinting at 69 kph in Halo Reach
Where are you getting these numbers from exactly?
abstract venture
This scene
Kat states the distance is 96m and the time it takes to sprint across it puts their speed at 69kph
torpid flare
how long did it take to run 96 meters
feral perch
Halo geometry is not at parity with real-world distance
abstract venture
Also in Glasslands Mendez says he's seen Spartans casually sprint at 60kph thousands of times, which is very close to Kelly's top speed done very casually by every Spartan
torpid flare
some cutscenes exaggerate
abstract venture
Velocity = distance/time
humble yacht
those doors were not necessarily the doors of the bunker
carmine sleet
Have you considered the fact that they're in lifts that are travelling downwards?
Plus what Chimera said too
feral perch
It’s not that simple
humble yacht
when you look at the distance between the elevator and teh doors, theres no way that was 96 m
torpid flare
it is maybe around 30-60 meters, not 96 meters
carmine sleet
They stopped to make sure Six and Kat had cover
abstract venture
Or we use the explanation they gave instead of making up stuff lol
And if they stopped to give cover they did a terrible job
Rip kat
torpid flare
what is the fastest elite
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
versed helm
Blarggity Blarg-Tucker
torpid flare
hey jcrrz
versed helm
Hallo
carmine sleet
Shaq, I highly doubt the bunker would've been directly under where the ONI building is. That doesn't make much sense for a secretive organisation to do
terse lava
@torpid flareif we take it literally, Fal 'Chavamee was moving pretty darn fast