it's in sangheili
#lore-and-universe
humble yacht
toxic venture
terse lava
Macto cognatus, if that's what you met
jolly furnace
So i wonder what the Forerunners used the gas they gathered on the gas mine on threshold for prior to it becoming a flood facility.
I assume it was to power up certain technologies
terse lava
Always figured for extra energy
jolly furnace
Yeah
terse lava
Even with literal infinite energy from universes they seemed...bit greedy
jolly furnace
Well some tech wouldn't need that energy
Or its just easier/less expensive to get it from other sources
terse lava
True, maybe they used it to help power those devices used to prevent star death
jolly furnace
I think those devices use vaccum energy
terse lava
Possible
jolly furnace
I mean suspending a star death with automated facilities needs a nonstop energy source and a vast one
too
I doubt gas wil give u that
terse lava
I am now wondering though, would events have changed if everyone, forerunner, and the indexed races been set in thebinyx shield world rather then the greater ark?
jolly furnace
I doubt it
Star roads/precursor tech would get in im sure
They wreck havoc on multiple dimensions
Just look at the Tyrant map description
terse lava
True, but I mean just as survival, or a better I guess would be this. If the greater ark had been left alone.
jolly furnace
Issue with Onyx is it's shield world ould only be accesed in a certain timeframe
and not a long one at thatt
They screw up or something goes wrong its game over
terse lava
Better then what happened
jolly furnace
I mean if all forerunners are held up there and flood get in shatter onyx with star roads, thats it. here's no escape period
That shield world was made very difficult to get in or out of
terse lava
Ok will just be blunt then. If the forerunner population and their wards on the g.ark had lived through the flood war, how do you think things would go
jolly furnace
They'd likely have enough to repopulate after halo firing
thus still be around
Now some may be on bastion
but we dont know how many
If they still went to another galaxy with more of their population they may have survived despite thinning themselves out
terse lava
True
jolly furnace
All indications in canon are the ones who left the galaxy are extinct
terse lava
Well some forerunners clearly managed to get a big enough population to access the domain post fireing
jolly furnace
that was a few people
terse lava
We only know of Born and Chant going with that plan fully
jolly furnace
and before they left the galaxy
uh several forerunners were mentioned in that story
terse lava
Yes, but I do not recall them completely agreeing on letting their race die off
Only of leaving the galaxy and not returning
jolly furnace
Those who left agreed to spread out and thin their numbers to ensure extinction
terse lava
Hm i will have to re read that part then
jolly furnace
Those who remain on Bastion probably werent at the Ark or aware of that exodus
terse lava
I would find it amusing if bastion was as massive as Onyx
terse lava
Yet we have that whole thing of none really being used due to mendicant knowing of them
jolly furnace
I guess he didnt know them all
Or Bastion moved location after the fact
meaning he wouldnt know its current location
terse lava
Maybe
jolly furnace
We'll see one day hopefully
terse lava
Maybe
Wonder if the covenant could have crafted something larger then high charity given their later resources
abstract venture
That should be a given
humble yacht
Think about how Johnson looks and acts in the games
feral perch
Johnson was in his eighties when he died.
humble yacht
Now realize that he was 80
Point is, he was old
But he didn’t look it
What 70 yo do you know goes running around killing aliens?
There you go
feral perch
They weren't hers.
She dislikes the IVs for the same reason.
But you're thinking Glasslands Halsey, not Ghosts of Onyx Halsey.
humble yacht
She considers her methods of making and training Spartans to be superior
feral perch
GoO Halsey was more curious than resentful toward the IIIs.
Taking advantage of the emotional trauma of four-year-olds and turning them into Spartan canon fodder is definitely better
amirite
lame
bland
humble yacht
Ethical
feral perch
generic
humble yacht
Moral
humble yacht
You’ve been fed exaggerations
The nature of their augmentations mean their raw strength and speed is not quite at the level of spartan 2s
But in armor, that deficiency is compensated
Both
But mostly drugs
feral perch
IVs had most of their internal organs replaced
oops
I thought you were still discussing IVs
IIIs didn't have organ replacements
terse lava
Would find that pretty funny
stoic hamlet
III’s are on the level of Spartan II’s out of/in armour, with Gammas being technically stronger than the II’s and more durable than all other groups. @versed helm
terse lava
That was just due to drugs though
stoic hamlet
Well, yeah. But they still are. The method used isn’t really the point.
The fact is, they are.
fair hazel
you find it ridiculous but i dont and we have it and its honestly super useful
methane in particular since its what the unggoy breath
in other words, spartan-IVs could survive for longer in unggoy environments
stoic hamlet
I find it ridiculous if the II’s and III’d didn’t also get the same organ replacement treatment.
humble yacht
Explain how spartan iv lungs create oxygen out of nothing
fair hazel
its only a limited duration of time
humble yacht
Doesn’t matter
fair hazel
there is perhaps a reaction with methane and oxygen the spartan breaths out in CO2 form.
humble yacht
Methane is one carbon and 3 hydrogens
If there was oxygen present it wouldn’t be breathing methane
gilded mason
there is perhaps a reaction with methane and oxygen the spartan breaths out in CO2 form.```
They won't be able to breathe out CO2 if there's no O2 to breathe inMethane is inert, non toxic
fair hazel
the methane probably does a reaction with the co2 so it recirculates inside, but only effective for a limited ammount of time
humble yacht
Nope
gilded mason
What CO2?
humble yacht
First off, you need O2 to make Co2 using the body
Second, CO2 is super stable
It doesn’t react naturally
Even if you replace the lungs with something other than human cells, the rest of the body still needs oxygen
fair hazel
Well its safe to assume the spartan already had some O2
and doesnt normally react, but theres maybe some series of reaction in the spartan bodies
gilded mason
Also, in Bad Blood, they talk about their suits taking care of converting CO2 to O2 when entering Balaho.
humble yacht
Recycling Co2 into o2 using the suit is less ridiculous
gilded mason
Yeah
humble yacht
But that’s not “breathing methane”
gilded mason
Ye
humble yacht
The writer of the comic obviously knew nothing about chemistry
I can suspend some science belief for science fiction but this is fundamental cellular activity we are talking about
Unless you replace every cell in a spartan’s body with some artificial Mumbai jumbo, there is no way you can go 30-60 min in an oxygen-less environment
terse lava
Just watch, they used some lifeworker tech
gilded mason
mumble mumble-Onyx tech-mumble
gilded mason
He sparked their curiosity. 😏
terse lava
....throws Ostral into the heresy chamber
gilded mason
worth it
feral perch
His regret is gone. Quite gone.
terse lava
The whole methane thing i would say is improbable, but I get the feeling the unggoy didnt always breathe methane either, seeing as it mentions their homeworld ecosystem collapsed from industry
@feral perchha
humble yacht
I don’t know how grunts pull it off but you can justify it with “alien physiology”
terse lava
Pretty much
humble yacht
Can’t justify it with human physiology
terse lava
If I had to truly guess. Thinking their armor or whatever was put into them truly just came from forerunner tech, seeing as forerunner armor was capable of healing anything
humble yacht
This isn’t about healing
fair hazel
I just noticed it
obsidian thistle
Old and New
humble yacht
If both are canonical then the UNSC just changed logos at some point and some older tech may still have older logo
fair hazel
What do you mean if?
obsidian thistle
To be really technical. No lore has stated that both logos cant exist side by side.
fair hazel
we even see both used in halo wars 2
obsidian thistle
HW2 is a unique scenario tbf
fair hazel
At Henry Lamb Research base
feral perch
it would be easier to explain for the Covenant, with multiple ministries and all
terse lava
True, they likely have multiple symbols for the groups
feral perch
With the UNSC.. it comes down to cool-factor.
The fans whine so much about art style that a lot of decisions are fan-service now
humble yacht
Well it’s one thing for odst to have their own symbol
But this isn’t the same thing
The fans whine so much about art style that a lot of decisions are fan-service now
Yeah and that sucks. Feels like pandering
terse lava
Kinda does
fair hazel
Indeed.
terse lava
Although some was for the best, halo 4&5 sangheili vs H2A Sangheili
But others....pointless
humble yacht
I’m sure that opinion is completely free of any bias whatsoever
fair hazel
the H2A sangheili heads are a new design by the way
terse lava
If it makes you feel better, only biased one
Yea they are, I do prefer them over the previous look.
If you want a more unbiased opinion Chimera, i find the switch from the chief's armor utterly pointless. I had actually grown used to his halo 4/5 armor
Having them go backwards is silly
terse lava
It wasnt bad at all
fair hazel
I liked that helmet more than current one.
terse lava
Mhm
humble yacht
My sincere worry is that if they try to redo Bungie’s halo that it’ll result in a direct comparison that fails to impress
Not necessarily because it won’t be good, but because players are fickle
Especially over halo
terse lava
Yea
They should have just stuck with the new looks....besides the sangheili.
Heck, actually at this point I wouldn't be shocked if they tried to change the look of the forerunners
humble yacht
Maybe
Though being back on a halo, we’re back to builder style architecture
Easily explained
terse lava
Yea
Decent excuse
I didnt mind the warrior servant look of forerunner buildings and whatnot, but others did
humble yacht
It’s how we justified when it changed before
humble yacht
Of course some changes were not so easily explained. Never will like the nanobot crap
gilded mason
Indeedy
humble yacht
Much easier ways of giving him new armor
terse lava
Literally could have been outfitted on the infinity
humble yacht
That would be easily digestible
terse lava
Nice little transfer from old to new
Would say the best way to really
Come to think of it, fun question. Before the reveal, how did you picture the forerunners looking like?
dusky kindle
Robotic
humble yacht
Human
The Didact sounded like and old man in the first trailer to feature his voice
drifting beacon
Safe to say I wasn't expecting them to look like Voldemort
terse lava
Wont lie...thought LOTR elves
gilded mason
...Gross.
terse lava
Not the worst
Likly not the best either shrug
How did you imagine them then? @gilded mason
gilded mason
I dunno, actually. I only thought of them as inside weird armor, but never the actual person inside it.
terse lava
Heh, imagined their armor somewhat resembling the EVA one, but more smooth like the covenant
drifting beacon
TBH? I was expecting something similar to Huragok
Like, in reguards to texture and traits
They'd be humanoid in form, but not in composition
simple locust
So what did the Forerunners do to other species besides the Precursors before the Human-Flood War?
rancid delta
They like planted them on shield worlds
Installation 00
Etc,
It was called the conservation measure im pretty sure
simple locust
I mean before the flood ever showed up. Before the Humans and Forerunners went to war.
rancid delta
oh, they just like took care of the Galaxy
cause the stole the Mantle of Responsibility from the humans, who were originally supposed to inherit it
like they seeded many worlds
expanded a lot
stuff like that
simple locust
https://missingmandibles.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/001.jpg So are these some 4 armed monkeys that show up late in the comic? Is their non-infected form shown?
obsidian thistle
Nah. But its presumed to be a Thorne beast
simple locust
Did the design for them change? The heads looks more round and not like a dinosaur head. Is it a sub species?
simple locust
Or it at least seems to have a shorter neck, I think.
terse lava
Could just be a re design
versed helm
There is a theory that the Flood have infected every other galaxy in the universe except for the Milky Way, it seems possible.
abstract venture
There's a decent chance it's true
versed helm
But if there were, then they could just call on the outer forces and severely overwhelm us
And yea
also all Key/Graveminds are pathologically connected
So they all are under the control of all grave/keyminds
humble yacht
psychically*
humble yacht
closer but still wrong
versed helm
?
humble yacht
check your spelling
terse lava
I doubt EVERY single galaxy in the universe was consumed by the flood. They have only existed for 112,000 years or so
humble yacht
the idea that the flood took over every galaxy other than the milky way just sounds like Dead Space
humble yacht
still sounds like Dead Space
terse lava
Even most is silly
Heck, that game only talks of the milky way, the reason humans never found aliens
versed helm
True
terse lava
I could see at best, Andromeda being consumed
terse lava
Still only 100,000 years
terse lava
Eventually they would come across other precursors anyways. And I doubt every single one will be pleased to join the flood club
terse lava
For all we know, the milky way precursors were a group just testing
No..only those who became powder became the flood. Not every precursor
versed helm
There was one in captivity by the Forerunners
Who were interrogated
And whoever knew what he said would cause others to go mad
terse lava
Yea, one, who transferred his mind into the flood once his body was poofed
terse lava
Yep, Timeless One/Primordial
He was the last of the milky way precursors in the sense of the last one in the galaxy
Others managed to flee
terse lava
We only know they seeded life in various galaxies, and created humans and forerunners
versed helm
Oh
terse lava
Mhm
versed helm
Only in various galaxies
That means that there's sentient life in other galaxies
Including the precursors
So the Flood could expand
To other galaxies
and take rule of the universe
But the other living things would retaliate
Just like we did
terse lava
It could also mean the precursors there took care of any flood problem
sturdy turtle
Highest teir of garbage for how they did Noble 6
carmine sleet
What?
carmine sleet
Six is dead, move on
abstract venture
If Jun survived so can 6
stoic hamlet
I’ll always be annoyed at the meme status of that phrase now.
Even Oblivion used it in a joking manner, though I’m not sure why.
terse lava
Because they were teens
stoic hamlet
True
terse lava
And likely a way to morn for sam
terse lava
Kurt had to get it somewhere
stoic hamlet
I assumed he got it from the propaganda.
terse lava
Never was said where it truly began
stoic hamlet
True
I suppose it could have been something the II’s started to honour their dead washouts who I guess never really died.
terse lava
I bet it began with chief and co, then taken on by the rest of the military
stoic hamlet
But the meaning that Kurt imbued it with was more a sad realization that it was basically a lie and never true even in the beginning.
It held more weight I suppose.
So hearing (reading) it in that joking tone in Oblivion felt kind of off to me.
But I guess it makes sense in context.
terse lava
Always took it as kurt looking at it as like Sam, he was saving humanity
stoic hamlet
There’s a few interpretations I suppose
terse lava
I guess, dont recall the 3s getting a motto like that though
stoic hamlet
They weren’t known about by the wider public so no.
But IIRC they did it among themselves.
stoic hamlet
Like ringed habitats?
They could build high charity, so probably.
But maybe they’d see it as like, sacrilegious?
terse lava
Well classic ring worlds, that circle an entire star
I doubt they would see it as sacrilegious, seeing as we know they are capable of building rings around planets
terse lava
Would think so, and i admit, would find it a tad funny that they would be capable of such a feat, if ancient humans couldnt
simple locust
Were there any structures that influenced the design of the Halos?
carmine sleet
Real world or in lore?
simple locust
lore.
carmine sleet
Unknown
simple locust
Was Faber the main creator?
terse lava
Would say Bornsteller's father was
He was the one who thought them up
He and his guild built the first batch of 12 30,000km halos
simple locust
So why were the structures rings?
terse lava
just the best one they came up with. They draw on vacuum energy, so a ring likely drew on it equally from an area. Rather the say, a pyramid which would have a larger draw on the bottom compared to the top
simple locust
Also in regard to your earlier comments about the Covenant making ring structures, could they have made either rings or wheels similar to that Halo 5 map that is a wheel in space?
versed helm
Probably a ring, since most of their technology is heavily influenced by the Forerunners'
I think it'd be possible, but not on a 10 000 km scale, rather a 1000 km scale
terse lava
I think they could make large ones, as Silent Storm and Oblivion showed us the "Ring of Abundance," a ring wrapped around a forerunner planet
And it wasn't the only one
versed helm
True
jolly furnace
Regarding megastructures - the truly massive sized ones are limited to tier 0, 1, and 2 tech species.
0 and 1 to be specific.
2 tier can do it to a certain scale
As for AH - it's implied they could create massive megastructures - just not on the scale of a Halo ring
Or they simply never tried.
Honestly you need a good reason to do that.
terse lava
I have thought they were simply too busy with the flood
versed helm
The Forerunners?
jolly furnace
Why waste resources when you can just terraform planets
versed helm
Or the Coveys
True @jolly furnace
But in Silent Storm & Oblivion, there are Covenant ring-like structures
Used for making supercarriers
I beliebe
feral perch
There is a giant ring constructed around a planet
jolly furnace
That's would a shipbiulding yard
feral perch
Called the Ring of Mighty Abundance
jolly furnace
How big is the planet
versed helm
It's Covey, right?
jolly furnace
Cos a Halo is larger than Earth's diameter i think
feral perch
It could not exist independently of the planet Zhoist, and yes it is Covenant.
terse lava
A halo is the same as earth's diameter
versed helm
Earth is ~12,742 km
Cortana says it herself in Fall of Reach that Installation 04 is 10,000 km in diametre
It's only 2000 km
so it doesn't really matter
jolly furnace
Ok so i looked at the desription of the structure. impressive but not the same as a halo
The halos were ring worlds
this thing is a series of stations linked by a tube
impressive but not on the scale of forerunners
terse lava
I thought the tubes linked them to the surface
terse lava
Yes, thought the tubes covered the lifts, maybe i will have to re read it
jolly furnace
So this ring thing is similar to that megastructure in SW The CLone wars it looks like
the seperatist one
feral perch
could you narrow it down a little more?
terse lava
Think so
simple locust
So what other mega structures did the Forerunners make besides the Halos, Arks, and shield worlds?
versed helm
They did make a super sentinel, as seen in Halo Legends
It shoots a laser visible in space
carmine sleet
Line Installations, X50, they made allot
simple locust
What do those look like?
terse lava
Dont forget the ancient reconciliation mirrors they used to go after precursors
There are images of the Line installations and X50 on halopedia
terse lava
X50 was a miner creation that looks like a shield world, it ripa apart worlds and uses the minerals
simple locust
So were most of their mega structures besides the Halos and Arks just spheres?
versed helm
Basically
carmine sleet
X50 is more akin to the Death Star than it is the Ark
carmine sleet
The Forerunnner Capital City isn't a sphere
carmine sleet
It was a bunch of disks
terse lava
Yea, a series of disks on a large pole that was capable of folding up into a.sphere
versed helm
That was a bunch of disks
Still round
Forerunners really like circles
Humans love squares
terse lava
And covenant smooth curves
jolly furnace
covie architecture was mostly based on san shyuum preference
I like to think ancient san shyuum used the same style on their architecture just more advanced
versed helm
Cuz they ruled over all of em
And Sangheli basically prehistoric human with cooler design
versed helm
A R M O R
carmine sleet
I'd say the Brutes are all about everything having a blade
They did make the Knifle after all
jolly furnace
Sangheili were bascially fuedal Japan mixed with Romans
versed helm
Knifle?
carmine sleet
Brute Shot. In Red Vs Blue, it gets called a Knifle by some Insurrectionists when Agent Maine first gets it
versed helm
I see lmao
Brutes are sort of medieval, they have weapons everywhere
Even on their clothes
And Sangheli are like Japanese, filled with honor
And Forerunners are just Forerunner
I wonder what a Jackal city would look like
O yeah Grunts are African, since their materials are so scarce due to overpopulation and live in tents similar to theirs
abstract venture
We see a jackal city on escalation
Run by pirates, has slaves yk the usual deal
terse lava
@jolly furnacemore European knights then samurai
versed helm
That is all
So arbitrary lmao
"Grunts are African, Sangheili are Japanese", what total garbage.
terse lava
sigh
simple locust
I guess they could be considered similar to how the people of the Congo were treated under Leopold II in which they were forced into labor with brutal practices and were put in militias and the military. It could also be compared to how the British got soldiers from their colonies.
simple locust
Although the Congo has a lot of resources, whereas I don't recall Balaho having many resources.
gilded mason
their honor system clearly has roots in Bushido```
Not really, no.The guy that wrote Sangheili honor stuff based a lot of it around the norse
terse lava
But unlike samurai, sangheili were officers in the covenant military, the elite. The knights held a similar standing among the peasant foot soldiers
gilded mason
And the names for everything are very European
Lances, Major Domo, Obedientiary, Evocati, etc
terse lava
Plus there's the whole basic religious theme, another shared trait of knights
And the zealot orders, similar to the various "warrior-monk" orders of medival times too
jolly furnace
Can i have a source for the Norse thing?
I'd like to read that
I concede your point about the medievial knights
gilded mason
I remember the Halo 5 artbook talking about its inspirations for the Sangheili
Middle-eastern stuff, europe, and some other places.
gilded mason
Envoy was when he asked, but Buckell first started writing that stuff with the Cole Protocol
humble yacht
I think you watched halo legends and may be projecting that onto lore that came before
simple locust
I remember HiddenExperia saying that if an elite minor did not achieve a higher rank at a certain point they would kill themselves. Is that true?
gilded mason
Might be true for some more dramatic Minors.
terse lava
What was the source for that anyway?
jolly furnace
No im not projecting from Halo legends mate
gilded mason
What was the source for that anyway?```
Halopedia says the EncyclopediaWhy am I not shocked
simple locust
He was noting that he saw that being similar to Japanese culture. Just FYI I don't know if that is an accurate correlation, as I imagine the only to find out would be to check the source to see if that is what the author of the information intended the audience to make.
HiddenExperia was noting that, just to clarify.
terse lava
I used to think the whole samurai thing to, until I saw far more things in common with knights
humble yacht
Halo 2 spec op elites talked more like crusaders/knights Templar than samurai
terse lava
Yep
simple locust
There one elite in Halo Legends that wears a straw hat.
terse lava
I blame the anime I watched
simple locust
Straw hats in general look cool so I think it looks pretty neat on an elite.
humble yacht
Halo encylopedia came after legends
So if that Japanese influence is in encyclopedia then it could still be influenced by Legends
jolly furnace
Well all I know is i see elements of fuedal japan in the sangheili. If you don't thats fine.
Lets move on.
I never read the encyclopedia. Too inaccurate I read
took stuff from Halopedia i think aswell
simple locust
Do the jackals take from any culture in particular? Are their birth rates low, high or just highly susceptible to failure?
simple locust
That seems right, maybe vikings as well.
terse lava
Feel that would be the jiralhanae more
humble yacht
Vikings were pirates
terse lava
They were yes, but they were also more warrior like too
carmine sleet
Pirates were a kind of warrior, they knew how to fight
simple locust
I feel like the Banished are similar to the Mongols, in that they seem to allow a lot of diverse beliefs in their society but they do take over places violently.Of course for the Mongols it did vary but if I recall at certain times they allowed greater diversity in their society.
rancid delta
Six isnt dead
You see emile survived 2 stabs with an enery sword or maybe 1
If emile can than so can Six
gilded mason
Do you actually believe Six isn't dead, or are you just having a joke.
rancid delta
I actually believe it
gilded mason
You are absolutely incorrect.
rancid delta
Ok then
But thats what i want to believe
Becàuse in theory if hi condition was like Linda's
Then he can be revived
But i dont know to be honest
gilded mason
He was surrounded by Elites, all with weapons that could easily kill him. He was on the ground. Stabbed.
There is no way to survive that situation.
abstract venture
But we didn't see it happen, he coulda defeated them
gilded mason
Jun said he was dead. Bungie said he was dead. 343 said he was dead.
abstract venture
but... caves...
gilded mason
he coulda defeated them
He really could not have.
abstract venture
Why not, Spartans do it all the time
gilded mason
They survive by not getting in those situations.
abstract venture
There were like only 2 elites left alive when the cutscene ended
That's pretty good odds for any Spartan
humble yacht
This is starting to approach memeing so let’s not
terse lava
I leave for a moment and come back to this heresy?? 6 is utterly dead
How about this for a change, once the Created thing is done, how do you think the SOS and humanity will do?
abstract venture
SoS is basically done now
Guardians dismantled their fleet and shut down sanghelios
humble yacht
Only half
gilded mason
As long as their ideals live on, the SoS is simply a faction without (functional) power.
terse lava
Was it ever said how large the fleet was above sangheilios?
humble yacht
Eleventy ships
gilded mason
wowza
terse lava
And here I always thought it was over 9000
abstract venture
How many ships u guys think the brutes got
terse lava
Maybe a couple hundred as a race total
hasty locust
Eleventy is my favorite number!
terse lava
Think 343 will do do anything more with the precursors? Make them a "x happened due to them" kind of thing
humble yacht
Personally hope not
carmine sleet
I don't want more
Especially not a "Oh look, the Precursors have arrived to attack the galaxy for some reason" type plot like I've seen some hope for
terse lava
I agree, but at the time time I execpt it. Half expect a "the ones you know as dinosaurs were wiped out by them" or even extinctions further back in time
I dont see anything of them arriving in the future, just expanding on their deeds in the past
carmine sleet
Please don't, X
quiet umbra
someone brought it up earlier lol
obsidian thistle
Lets not.
versed helm
Noble Six is dead, but his legacy still lives on 😔
obsidian thistle
A replica of his helmet at Outpost Discovery also
quiet umbra
Heroes are remembered forever but legends never die
abstract venture
Noble 6s death was orchestrated by ONI so he could train the Spartan 5s
quiet umbra
those were ONI operatives in elite bodysuits
he did shoot them tho he wasnt in on it
versed helm
Was his death known by ONI by the time Outpost Discovery was created or was it just assumed?
quiet umbra
I think assumed, and this is a reach so bear with me:
because his helmet is alone in a big empty field so the assumption would be that it's undiscovered as of Reach's epilogue
It's a safe bet to say Six's remains were never uncovered
because if they had found him that helmet would very likely be in a museum or memorial
versed helm
True
obsidian thistle
Well
Um...
They did find the helmet
And they just left it. Only making a replica of it
quiet umbra
Where'd they say this?
obsidian thistle
Halo: Outpost Discovery
quiet umbra
idk if I like that. Doesn't really make sense with the info Reach gives us
Six's helmet in the epilogue is very clearly not some monument or historical site
hasty locust
Lemme see if I took a picture of the description
quiet umbra
it's in the middle of nowhere
obsidian thistle
I never said the helmet was recovered or made into a monument
versed helm
Kinda weird they just left it there, but maybe they did so as a sign of respect? Idk.
obsidian thistle
Just that a replica was made.
quiet umbra
sounds more like a plothole to me given how we see it in 2589
hasty locust
Like when they leave things on old battlefields, like the cannonball tree
quiet umbra
which keep in mind is nearly 30 decades after even Halo Infinite AFAWK
versed helm
I honestly wonder What the Halo universe is like in 2589
Imagine if Chief woke up by that time instead
quiet umbra
should be peaceful judging by the beleive ad campaign and whatnot
hasty locust
The outpost description says they left it in the barren field as a memorial to the fallen Spartans
Like how the hillside memorial will “stay barren”
quiet umbra
I honestly don't know why Halo 4 only takes place less than half a decade after 3
why not like 50 years to distance it from the original saga
abstract venture
Probably because they'd have to restart the entire universe
quiet umbra
Cortana I guess?
abstract venture
Make new characters and stuff, whereas they could just reuse same characters
quiet umbra
but thats easily able to be worked around
hasty locust
Well 50 years, they couldn’t reuse old characters
quiet umbra
as I kid given how far the Ark is from the milky way and how they were traveling at sub-light speed
I figured master chief would either A: never be found
or B: that it would take centuries
carmine sleet
The Forward Until Dawn section Chief was on wasn't floating near the Ark during the four years it was missing
versed helm
Arby would probably still be around, since Sangheili can live up to 200 years as far as we know Thanks to Nizat from Oblivion.
obsidian thistle
Well we know New Alexandria on Reach was rebuilt. It was already active in 2610
versed helm
I wonder if we'll get to the 2600's in Halo someday
terse lava
Maybe further too
Would almost like to see, at the end of halo, a fully re terraformed reach with Thel 'Vadamee overlooking it from a hill
half apex
would it make sense for ONI to creat 'gen II spartans'?
considering how much success came out of the spartan's work, the II's especially
and III's
gilded mason
would it make sense for ONI to creat 'gen II spartans'?
Like...More Spartan IIs?
terse lava
Would be pointless
gilded mason
Yeah
terse lava
Plus the whole kidnapping thing....
obsidian thistle
Well Spartan-II Class 2 is a thing atm. However its heavily debated
abstract venture
It was cancelled
Caus Halsey wouldn't make anymore 2s since they didn't have enough perfect candidates
Or atleast that's what Halsey says, but others say it's an excuse from her to not make any more
hasty locust
4’s are good enough for ONI, cheaper and more ethical too
versed helm
Spartan II Class II: "Oh boy, here I go kidnapping kids again".
hasty locust
Lol
humble yacht
"I'm Chris Hansen, and I'm doing a story for Dateline, tracking down scientists who try to kidnap children they found online."
gilded mason
Watch for their diabolical internet slang such as:
lmao:
Let
Me
Abduct
One
fair hazel
Bye bye chris hansen, Ben Giraud 2.0
versed helm
I still wonder,what race attacked Crecka in the System of Miasmic Giants?
terse lava
No way of us knowing, we only know that 123 sapient alien races were indexed 4 years before the end of the flood war. Of those, likely some were killed at the greater ark, and more during the Dark Time post reseeding. I believe it was also stated a whole back that there were non covenant aliens out there, they were not many and may be at tier 7-5
tender ginkgo
Does anyone know what race crashes their ship on Guilty Sparks ring as shown in the Halo anniversary terminals
carmine sleet
No, it's unknown what race crashed on Installation 04 during the terminals
versed helm
There was that one race mentioned in Silentium,they sent a signal that Spark intercepted into space just as the Array was firing
That part was sad
jolly furnace
@terse lava Any unknown species that isn't at least Tier 3 as of present day Halo is irrelevant since they can't either be a useful asset or enemy to the Tier 3 and above species we have right now. Maybe as background but not as a major player
obsidian thistle
There is numerous mystery aliens in post-array Halo.
Essentially they be meddling and 1 at least is quite powerful.
obsidian thistle
Still to make the HP page on them all (as 1 page) but that section in my 4th Sandbox on halopedia gives the just.
abstract venture
Wasn't there some mentions of the Covenant warring/wiping out other civilizations also?
It was either in Warfleet or a canon fodder I forget
jolly furnace
Just don't mention the Meddlers cos they are not a thing in canon
Yeah Warfleet mentions Covies wiping other species
I mean we knew that already I think
abstract venture
Why aren't meddlers canon?
jolly furnace
I mean you guess covies wiped out other species that served no use for them or if they wouldn't join the covies
There is no species in canon called the Meddlers
abstract venture
...
jolly furnace
It was a term used by GS to refer to any species that meddled in his Halo
abstract venture
That's just what guilty spark called them, not their actual name, because they y'know meddled
abstract venture
It's canon though
jolly furnace
he s[ecifically refers to him as a Meddler in 3
abstract venture
And?
jolly furnace
Yeah but the person who espouses the Meddlers theory thinks this is just one species
It is not
abstract venture
The point is that another unknown alien species visited the Halo before
The name doesn't matter lol
jolly furnace
Yeah but they were not referred to as the Meddlers.
carmine sleet
It's canon that there's multiple races that have "meddled" with Halos and other Forerunner Installations. We just don't know who the Meddlers are and whether or not they're just a single species or multiple
jolly furnace
This person is calling them that
abstract venture
Jesus
abstract venture
It's a fan name noone is saying the species is called that
Just the easiest thing to call them
carmine sleet
They are not called Meddlers at all but in the absence of any knowledge about them, that is the only name we have for them
abstract venture
Not in this discord, idk if you've seen otherwise lol
jolly furnace
Thank you Slipstream
abstract venture
Yeah I fw that, it's what I said too
jolly furnace
And if they mean the ones who crashed on 04 from the terminals. they didn't meddle. they crashed and died
abstract venture
Just saying 'meddlers aren't Canon's is pretty misleading lol i thought something else
Yeah I think the implication is there was another species that visited outside the terminal one
obsidian thistle
I always said the "meddlers" could be numerous species. ;) Seeing as I was the one to gather all the sources
jolly furnace
Well someone seemed to pick it up and think it was only one species
obsidian thistle
The main reason for the name is 2 things.
Spark saying it. And most of the mystery aliens meddling in Covie/Forerunner affairs
obsidian thistle
Thats why I say meddlers. Easier on the mouth than mystery aliens.
jolly furnace
But it annoys me to no end when I see someone say it was just one species
Well we know they weren't sapient bears
obsidian thistle
Pffft well the crashed aliens at the very least arnt space bears.
carmine sleet
I mean, there's apes that are that furry out there
obsidian thistle
Tbh I'd love for 343i to introduce Space Bears.
jolly furnace
I want the Sigma from Halo MMO brought in
jolly furnace
yeah but they ain't sapient
Here's all halo's unknown aliens so far
One of the pods in this Halo 2 map on delta halo was open
indicating something got out
If it was flood it could have contributed to the ring's infection by it
terse lava
That reminds me, on the Ha2 version of lockout, arent the creatures in the pods flood infected warrior servants?
jolly furnace
unknown what they are
but they are flood
the origial has beings in mjolnir type armor
if u can see them
human sized.
placeholders im sure
or it was a human are forerunners hint by bungie at the time
terse lava
I could never see if there is something in the original pods
jolly furnace
me neither
apparently there is though
At least the wiki says so
I'd need to see someone hack the map and see
terse lava
Maybe higher res tv would work too
@obsidian thistle you know anything about there bring actual beings in the original lockout flood containers?
abstract venture
Grey team wears Mk V in Envoy right?
obsidian thistle
Original Lockout?
Like Classic Halo 2?
"LOCKOUT - WAR GAMES MAP_SET/: 036-8
Although the UNSC In Amber Clad was destroyed during Delta Halo’s Flood outbreak, the frigate’s data nodes had already transmitted extensive details of various sites on the ring’s surface to the Master Chief. One of these – a derelict structure fixed to the ledge of a distant mountain - was the source of considerable scientific debate after his return. Subsequent analysis indicates it may have been a Forerunner research site, but the findings remain inconclusive."
versed helm
Awesome lore.
terse lava
Yes, in multiplayer though is there anything in any of the green flood containers?
jolly furnace
Halopedia says there is but ive never seen an image
and if i have i dont remember
but according to it human-sized beings in mjolnir armor are inside behind the mist
obsidian thistle
I'll take a lookiee
quiet umbra
is there a reason why 05's flood broke containment
it's implied that 05 is basically a wreck by the time H2 happens
jolly furnace
lack of maintainence, power failure, neglect, outside meddling species, any are possible
all we know is it happened not long after halo firing and reseeding of life
quiet umbra
I just boiled it down to "these things happen"
jolly furnace
so meddiling species not likely
carmine sleet
Basically, we don't know for sure what caused to escape but there's multiple possibilities, including the ones Dandelion listed
quiet umbra
if Flood containment was a surefire thing they wouldn't have needed the Halo array in the first place.
jolly furnace
so neglect on monitor combined with maintainence neglect is my guess
obsidian thistle
Outside meddling is a biggie though
jolly furnace
not in the timeframe - its unlikely a species would gain teir 3 status that quick after going back to tier 7
quiet umbra
the only species to actually get to tier 3 in Halo are Sangheili, SanShyuum, and Humans
all the other covenant species were basically carried there for lack of a better term
carmine sleet
X, unless they somehow managed to find a way to contain all the Flood in the galaxy, the array was needed to stop the Flood
quiet umbra
Brutes got to tier 4 but promptly lost it and went back down to 5 or even 6
jolly furnace
yeah but in how long to get there
this flood breach happened not long after reseeding of life by forerunners
year 97,227 BCE,
is when this flood breach happened
that ring only got built circa 97,445 BCE.
200 year timeframe for a species to go from tier 7 to 3
no way is that happening
Unless that species came from outside galaxy or avoided the rings firing altogether, no way
quiet umbra
spore speedrunners
terse lava
Its fully possible a race got up to that tier if they tech was left intact. Humanity had theirs taken, san shyuum lost theirs due to the forerunners borderline taking their planet apart.
obsidian thistle
^ yep
terse lava
As for the sangheili...well we dont know their tech level at the time
obsidian thistle
Troublesome beasts.
I believe thats an apt description due to how they had an active guardian as Sanghelios
terse lava
Hey!😛
Still does say something
If I had to guess....tier 4?
Dont see s point in a guardian being in a world where the aliens are planet bound
obsidian thistle
Unless it was a form of control
A species cant get off the rock if all their technology fails
jolly furnace
tier 4 wont get u to a halo ring
teir 3 is needed for FTL
Guardians were used as form of control
terse lava
I have a theory, during their war with humanity, warrior servants settled on the planet and brought the sangheili into the fold to help fight the humans. Later after the war, with all the forerunner leftovers, a guardian was left to prevent the sangheili from getting too advanced too fast
abstract venture
A guardian being on sanghelios doesn't mean it was used against them
jolly furnace
and it could tie into didact's cut dialogue of them
abstract venture
From the guardians waypoint page:
jolly furnace
maybe they were forerunner enemies
abstract venture
Before activating Halo as a final defense, the Forerunners buried remaining Guardians on isolated shelter worlds, where they would remain dormant until called upon to serve the Mantle once again.
terse lava
Yet dont the sangheili have carvings/drawing of an active guardian?
terse lava
I think the sangheili,imo(which may be a tad biased) were a race the warrior servants were considering for the mantle like the librarian and lifeworkers did with humanity
jolly furnace
I doubt it
most forerunners had no intention of ever passing it on despite their beliefs
and warrior servant for the most part believed all species were inferior to forerunners
Also didact didnt have nice things to say bout them in 4
carmine sleet
That just reminded me of the clip of the original guy who was casted to play the Didact acting out the awakening scene... Shame we never got to see that version
jolly furnace
Yeah
But as for warriors choosing sangheili, in 4 proper didact was very dismissive and racist to them
carmine sleet
Well, he is kinda crazy
jolly furnace
yeah
but he was more dismissive of them than humans
he called them beasts
and primitives
and said man wasnt worthy of the mantle simply cos humanity hadnt conquered them yet
That's his view of the covies compared to humans (who he hates more then any except maybe the flood)
abstract venture
I mean he's probably exaggerating
Considering he gave Jul command of his Prometheans afterwards
So he sees them capable to a certain degree
gilded mason
And when he called them primitives, would he really know anything about them after he got put into the Cryptum? So his data might be a bit outdated
jolly furnace
My guess he's been aware of whats goin on
He spoke english
and probably had sensors or something transmit data to him
who knows
basially though he views all below forerunners
and doesnt want anyone but them to have mantle
terse lava
I would say he was not aware of the covenant and saw only this ragtag group in front of him
Had he seen the covenant proper, may have been more impressed
terse lava
Now yes, back when he was sane, not so much
jolly furnace
even back then he saw all others as below forerunners
terse lava
He but he saw humans as worthy of joining the ecumene
versed helm
@gilded mason I think their primitive nature was demonstrated by the fact that they were bowing
And also their equipment
Clearly they were a) religious zealots, which is primitive
gilded mason
"Who ever heard of people not wearing...sleeves?!"
versed helm
And b) their tech is comparatively primitive.
Not a primitive as, y'know. Just straight-up guns.
But given the situation, his perspective makes sense.
And trying to make out like the Covenant or the Covenant splinters are particularly enlightened, or if the Didact could have more data he'd see them as any different
Well, it strikes me a perspective born of an agenda that doesn't align with what the universe has always portrayed
jolly furnace
it could also be that the sangheili were only tier 7 in his time or not even fully sapient while humaity was tier 1 and a rival to the forerunners
hence his view in that moment
gilded mason
or not even fully sapient
Now that I don't agree with.
versed helm
In a cultural sense that Covenant are primitive. Primitive culture combined with outsized tech is sorta their defining dichotomy. And the Didact comes from an era of unparalleled technological advancement.
gilded mason
Yeah.
versed helm
The automated units the Forerunners used to obliterate the mantle can knock out entire fleets of ships from the 26th century.
gilded mason
used to obliterate the mantle
Hm?
versed helm
So yeah, basically everyone's primitive compared to him. When he was talking to Chief, he was almost talking to humanity as he knew it.
Oh, typo
Enforce
gilded mason
Ah
versed helm
I wonder what I originally intended to say
Must've started with an o before my brain went another route
Although I could say that the methods employed by the Forerunners in executing the mantle and their interpretation of it is a bit of an obliteration.
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
In relation to the Precursor's alleged notion.
Which just seems to be "hm, let's make some bois"
terse lava
Precursors were not that great either
versed helm
"May the best win and also not kill us"
"Oh no they're killing us who could've seen this coming"
The demise of the Precursors is basically Dooku's death but on a cosmic scale
jolly furnace
Precursors are too alien to understand fully
versed helm
Just them going "uh- ah- whoaaah? I don't- why- stunned silence"
For like
Hundreds of years
jolly furnace
Our notions of morality etc are irrelevent when dealing with Precusors
as didact said
terse lava
One reason I hate the precursors
jolly furnace
nothing u do about it
they operate on a scope and scale we cant really comprehend
it's like trying to understand the mind of God
can't be done
versed helm
Fair enough
terse lava
At least with God that's some attempt
Book of Job for example but I do see where you are coming from
versed helm
But to be fair, that conceptualization can be seen as as lazy now as it has been for the past thousands of years every time religious authority didn't want their chosen entity to seem like a terrible thing xD
And inevitably
If a Precursor was to be represented
It would be given some form of understandable motivation for the sake of the plot
terse lava
My point is though, there's...."attempt" where with the Precursors, nothibg
versed helm
Unless they really stuck to their guns and like
jolly furnace
Abbadon is likely ae best example of a precursor as they were
versed helm
Used a great deal of RNG to write the story
jolly furnace
before flood came about
interestingly Abaddon is both a pit of demons and monsters and other nasties that exists during end times and an angel or demon leading armies of locusts
upon the Earth
Future Flood leader?...
terse lava
I thought he was a particular one, not a realm
versed helm
The way I see it
The Gravemind more or less is the Flood
So they'd have to conceptualize a change in leadership in a really compelling way
Depending on how you conceptualize the Gravemind sentience you're looking at varying degrees of connectedness here
The people that say that each FSC contains like, a blueprint of the Gravemind's consciousness would probably argue it's impossible
versed helm
I'm of the mindset that the Flood like, link up with the Gravemind consciousness which itself exists in some extradimensional space
terse lava
Yep one wanted to only punish forrunners
versed helm
So I suppose it's possible - especially if the Gravemind consciousness resides in the Domain - that a being like Abaddon could take control
terse lava
The other was a nutjob who wanted life to suffer
jolly furnace
i dont think GM's essence is in the domain
Maybe its in slipspace or Unreality whatever that is
humble yacht
If the gravemind consciousness existed in the domain then it shouldn’t have retained its memories from before the firing
The domain was damaged by the halos, and we don’t know what information was preserved vs lost
But people talk about the gravemind like an auto saving file
jolly furnace
Yeah true
some info ma may still be there since Curator used it to gain history on the galaxy while it was on the Ark
so it may just be dormant
or only allowing access to some entities
we know it can do that
versed helm
I would love Slipspace to be it
The existence of Slipspace is like, one of the biggest differences between Halo's universe and our own
As far as we know, of course
It would be fitting for all these esoteric elements to be tied up in it
jolly furnace
Well the Precursors may have created Slipspace
They forged dimensions and realms according to warfleet
humble yacht
Hope not
jolly furnace
Why?
versed helm
Chimera has a tendency to instantly and wholesale disregard certain notions
jolly furnace
I need a reason
versed helm
Particularly ones that tie obvious elements of the universe together
I guess he likes subverting expectations
versed helm
Rather
Warfleet opens the possibility of it
I think that's a distinction a lot of people ignore
There is a huge difference between implying and, well, I suppose facilitating.
Facilitating the possibility of the thing in question, anyway.
gilded mason
As in, 343 laying the groundwork for that revelation, if they felt like locking it in?
versed helm
Yeah.
hasty locust
I hope there’s some things like that we never get answered, sure it’s satisfying figuring how these things are all connected but suspense is part of halo and makes speculation fun
versed helm
Adding interesting, general ideas that won't contradict any of the internal concepts they may or may not have on the table.
terse lava
I really don't want the precursors as a living meme. "How did this happen?" Precursors. "Who built this?" Precursors
I fully agree with Chimera there
agile dragon
It takes part of the mystery out of it
terse lava
Well it's also just silly
hasty locust
Precursors are the 42 of halo
terse lava
I know that from...somewhere, hitchhiker guidentonthr galaxy?
gilded mason
Yeah.
terse lava
Ok
humble yacht
I don’t like the precursors so I don’t want them tied to slipspace like that
I also didn’t say it’s not possible
I just said I hope it’s not the case
It’s not a crime to not like an idea
hasty locust
I don’t like precursors they’re weird and huge. And they’re used to explain everything!
agile dragon
Its fun with the sense of mystery, did they do this? Why did they do this? How did they do this? 😮
terse lava
But if the answer is always precursors its dull
You cant explain all their actions so easily
At least we know the precursors are not without flaw, seeing as they had things they couldnt beat
terse lava
Heh but no, there were things they couldnt beat, and sealed away in prisons of crystalized time
agile dragon
When / where is that knowledge from? I always thought the forerunners turned on them and they uh... powderized for too long
jolly furnace
Warfleet mentions there were threats the forerunners and precusors couldn't destroy only contain
terse lava
Yep
I wonder what? Forerunners it makes sense but the precursors now that's interesting
Maybe another tier 0 race
agile dragon
Technically didn't humanity feed precursor powder to their dogs?
feral perch
Their pheru, yes
hasty locust
Anyone got any good elite names?
I’ve always wondered how they’re made
Probably just random
hasty locust
That’s why I’m wondering how they’re made
agile dragon
"Sangheili names are incredibly important. Names are both an honor and a privilege for those who have proven their worth, although all Sangheili are born with a given name. However, once they've proven themselves, they will be given a badge name and this is the most honorable and meaningful name a Sangheili can receive.
These names are made up of up to 3 parts: a descriptive part (like 'fast', 'strong', etc.), a family name, and possibly either the suffix 'ee' or 'ai'. The 'ee' suffix is only for those who are military participants, which many are, and the 'ai' suffix indicates swordsmanship."
jolly furnace
Im guessing either another tier 0 species, rogue precursors or incorporeal beings
not easy to kill beings with no physcial forms
gilded mason
For quickly making names, I mainly do a random-two-letter generator, and form something from that.
jolly furnace
Or it wasn't a matter of them not being able to kill but unwilling to kill
terse lava
Wait, are you asking how bungie and 343 thought up the names?
I doubt the precursors were above killibg
They certainly proved ther
hasty locust
Yeah both in and out of lore was the question
And seeing as y’all are the Sangheili experts I was hoping this could start a conversation or something, idk I’m bored
hasty locust
Minors didn’t use swords correct?
gilded mason
They seem to be able to
hasty locust
The only one I remember is from a day at the beach or whatnot
So is Grib’ins a good name?
No right
humble yacht
for military ops, minors were allowed to use swords
hasty locust
Thank you chim
humble yacht
culturally, though, they hadn't earned the right
but service trumps tradition in the Covenant
gilded mason
Yeah, for civilians, only nobles could use swords. But it was not as restrictive in the military.
Grib’ins
Seems a bit long.
Maybe shorten it to Grib or Gris?
humble yacht
why are Rtas's and Thel's last names so phonetically similar
terse lava
Grub 'Kelsonee?
hasty locust
Sold
gilded mason
why are Rtas's and Thel's last names so phonetically similar```
Smith and Smythefor a fictional character though that you have control over, just seems like they set themselves up for confusion
how many people asked if they were related in the early years?
obsidian thistle
I presume it was originally to try and do some world building that never really saw anything beyond the similar names.