Probably not, unless the Covenant had theatres (opera houses and performing arts centers; not cinemas)
#lore-and-universe
spiral jewel
terse lava
I dont see how they couldnt
spiral jewel
I could see some elites or even a member of the Fringe having some knowledge in performing arts , probably a small handful of civilians
carmine sleet
It's highly unlikely that they didn't have some sort of entertainment akin to what we have currently
jolly furnace
Wonder what their video games were like?
Wait they were probably variations of DESTROY ALL HUMANS at some point
I wonder what Forerunner pop culture was like
primal prairie
jolly saddle
How do REQS from halo 5 and weapon skins play into the lore, if at all?
humble yacht
REQ variants have descriptions that tie them in with the lore. Sometimes they are prototype weapons or special versions for personal use by important characters.
Weapon skins may or may not play into the lore
most likely not
jolly saddle
Oh, that’s cool. Do you by chance know where I can read into these?
humble yacht
yeah, you can look up the REQs in game
humble yacht
For instance, the Open Hand and Closed Fist boltshot REQs were the personal weapons of the Forerunner Endurance-of-Will
jolly saddle
Oh, is it like Tartarus’ Gavel, how it was his in-lore?
carmine sleet
The Gavel was given to Chieftains he trusted, if I recall correctly
"Tartarus' loyal lieutenants were also gifted a weapon worthy of such favor."
Ok, not Chieftains he trusted but basically certain Brutes that were loyal to him
humble yacht
Tartarus would have no need for other hammers. He had the Fist of Rukt
carmine sleet
Indeed. I remember ages ago someone trying to tell me the Gavel was a retconned design for the Rukt and I basically had to explain it was a different weapon to what we see in Halo 5
humble yacht
Considering they added the H2 BR and HCE pistol to H5 as REQs, it may have been less confusing to just put in the Fisk of Rukt as a mythic REQ instead
obsidian thistle
Oh that said
We have a name of a Weapon (thats very likely to be the Infinite AR)
carmine sleet
MA40
obsidian thistle
Source (till I find a better one): https://twitter.com/GameSpot/status/1229767583202717696?s=19
humble yacht
The gamespot article calls Infinite an open-world game. I'd avoid linking to that one, it takes obvious liberties with available info
there are other reports that don't make baseless assumptions
carmine sleet
Aye, I never got why the mag was loaded from the side like a Sten
fair hazel
Still a bit aw that boomco went.
At least it’s not the ma37 which makes me a bit glad. But I’ll miss the ma5d
hasty locust
If the price is ok im gonna get the nerf one, paint it and hang it on my wall
Also we might get both the MA40 and an advanced MA5
Who knows
hasty locust
Yeah ill wait for a sale then
fair hazel
50 bucks sounds about right for the blaster. Now when is the MA40 from ... good question.
obsidian thistle
The question ATM is
Is MA40 a variant (skin) of the Infinite AR or is the Infinite AR called the MA40
hasty locust
Oh #halo-news looks like its official, hoping for a beam rifle
obsidian thistle
Thats the question atm
hasty locust
Probably the MA40 is the name
fair hazel
I’m not sure why the skin would@be called MA40.
hasty locust
Yeah, could be misleading though
feral perch
That AR looks sick
obsidian thistle
Hmmm
So I just thought of something
So you know how 343i love to add trivial lore to toys.
hasty locust
Yeah
obsidian thistle
What if the MA40 is just the name of a weapon the Nerf gun is in-universe.
And the Infinite AR "can" use a skin inspired by it.
hasty locust
Yeah it can
If you look at the description posted above it says it comes with a code to use it in-game
obsidian thistle
"To unlock the MA40's color scheme in Halo: Infinite."
So if that line is held true
humble yacht
again, I think that's just poor writing on gamespot's part
obsidian thistle
Then the Infinite AR is not the MA40.
I do concur. But unfortunately thats the only source we have... blame whomever decided to give Gamespot the reveal.
humble yacht
Gamepur wrote an article on this too:
As a bonus, it will also include a code that lets you unlock this particular skin for the in-game MA40
So, gamespot is not the only source after all
and gamepur doesn't add baseless claims about open worlds and grapple hooks to their article
hasty locust
Even if its called the MA40 its not such an absurd thing they wouldn’t want leaked
Like a grappling hook is unlikely bit it being called the MA40 is likely
feral perch
I think it will be the MA40
limpid meadow
So you know how 343i love to add trivial lore to toys.
@obsidian thistle 343 sure, but this isn't coming from 343, not directly. It's coming from a news site and I don't think 343 would want to confuse fans if they can avoid it.
terse lava
They are releasing a skin for the assault rifle in jnfinite?
gilded mason
Yeh
obsidian thistle
I wonder if it will be like Halo 4 or Halo 5 skins?
humble yacht
what's the difference aside from number of skins?
terse lava
Hm joy...but guessing the CE skin since they are going classic
gilded mason
I'm still annoyed that there were never any cool skins like "chrome" or "classic" in Halo 5. Instead they were all really garish.
humble yacht
I think he meant skin "styles"
humble yacht
Halo 5's gold themed skins were great
gilded mason
lol
humble yacht
also there is a targetmaster chrome skin for pistol
humble yacht
whoo boi
terse lava
You mean you DIDNT want pizza guns?
gilded mason
lol
terse lava
Honestly would be happy with something new too. The nerd AR skin and...idk...different energy sword/plasma rifle color?
humble yacht
The halo 4 gold weapon skins were tight
deep pewter
I want more food based skins
gilded mason
I bet you do...fatty
humble yacht
Soft Scramble weapon skin when
terse lava
Buffalo wing pistol
humble yacht
bacon skin seemed like low hanging fruit that was missed
how did pizza and fries get in but bacon didn't?
obsidian thistle
I am still amazed Dorritos and Mountain Dew didnt get a skin despite all the cross promotions.
tepid lynx
anyone wonder why the UNSC didn't use incendiary ammunition when combating the flood.
hasty locust
Gonna leave out pizza hut like that
terse lava
They fought the flood once
humble yacht
the unsc wasn't exactly prepared for the flood whenever they encountered them
abstract venture
We don't know that they don't
obsidian thistle
The Hazop Cyclops is a thing
Oh thats the Mega Construx name. We at Halopedia only have it there outta requirememt till 343i kill it.
tepid lynx
now that's prefect for the flood a Cyclops armed with a flamethrower.
obsidian thistle
Hazops Cyclops is the better term
tepid lynx
still a good idea
humble yacht
sigh Grim, not everything has to be canon
terse lava
Until you know, flood get close and cut through the legs like butter
humble yacht
tepid lynx
right.... oh well
obsidian thistle
Oh that
terse lava
Or that
obsidian thistle
Thats simulation:)
terse lava
Anyone shocked mega didnt make a gravemind?
obsidian thistle
A what-if scenario the UNSC train for.
humble yacht
still
terse lava
Creatures of the lore, the canon is broad and we shall walk it side by side
humble yacht
uh, no
terse lava
You just have that sitting nearby for these moments dont you CIA?
obsidian thistle
Though recent bts developments "I" cant discuss yet will change that a "tad". But thats what the public stuff say.
terse lava
Hm ok
limpid meadow
If I make a Panel for Outpost in the future, I'm using this @obsidian thistle
"Squishy canon" lol
obsidian thistle
If you make a Panel for the future. I'd hope you use the updated version I am working on with halopedias team lol.
limpid meadow
For sure
obsidian thistle
The tldr is
Canon equals anything established.
Semi-Canon (debated name but I like it) equals stuff not established but "can" be canon.
Non-Canon equals anything not canon.
terse lava
Just realized, would a covenant joining the military be a minor right off the bat, or there some type recruit rank below that?
obsidian thistle
You forget the Elites are a warrior culture essentually. Stong survive. Weak die. (According to some media)
So I bet ye that would be accounted for
limpid meadow
Minor seems to be the base rank, yes
acoustic fulcrum
Do you need to have played Halo 5 campaign to understand Halo Infinite?
I didn’t get the chance to play 5 since I wasn’t really too into it so I returned it 😐
obsidian thistle
Uncertain. But it probs will help
acoustic fulcrum
Is there any abstract of what Infinite will be about so far?
humble yacht
Infinite is a sequel to H5 and continues narrative elements established in H5
acoustic fulcrum
I see
Will it be on steam or is it through the MS store for pc release if you have any idea?
humble yacht
unkown
but non-lore questions should really go in the right channels
#483759756566069258 is a good place to ask general questions about Infinite
acoustic fulcrum
Sorry! Just wanted to ask that while someone was here, but thanks 🙂
humble yacht
it's discord. someone's always somewhere
humble yacht
it's the designation of the Nerf blaster modeled after the Infinite AR
that's the most accurate statement at the moment
limpid meadow
^^^
stoic hamlet
Yes. But there’s no reason to think it’s called something different in game
limpid meadow
I'd argue there's little reason to think, but none of this is coming from 343 directly and the Gamespot reveal words things oddly
stoic hamlet
Aside from simply “the Assault rifle”
True.
I’m assuming that’s it until told otherwise, personally
humble yacht
the gamepur article on the nerf guns is better constructed
stoic hamlet
I think it’s the Airborne version of the regular ‘37, myself. Whatever it’s called.
limpid meadow
Could be. I like that angle.
That MA5 entered service in 2395 and was adopted by the Army in 2437, which is where the "MA37" name comes from
So maybe the Air Force took a few extra years and it has a different designation as a result
stoic hamlet
The Japanese and Germans did something similar during the Second World War. It was the same gun as the regular counterpart, but lighter and smaller. The Japanese Arisaka rifle is the one off the top of my head. It was the Type 99(I think) for the regular infantry and the Type 100 for the Paratroopers.
99 and 100 being years in the Japanese calendar, IIRC.
limpid meadow
fair hazel
too bad there wont be an outpost discovery this year
obsidian thistle
If there is Air Force stuff. I hope there is more lore to their ranking system lol.
safe siren
Hoping for a world fan fest in 2021
obsidian thistle
I hate only having "Airman" in their rank system lol
stoic hamlet
The MA40’s* black material could also support it being the Airborne version, IMO. Maybe it’s made of a lighter frame work or a plastic type material than the metal ‘37.
Like how the MA5K is possibly the Navy/Marine version, maybe?
obsidian thistle
Well Army and Air Force kinda do. But both have ranks not on the relevant pages of that manual.
limpid meadow
Such as?
obsidian thistle
Airman = Halo 4
Specialist = A few places but Reach is the primary.
Wardant Officer 3 = Reach.
There is two theories atm
- The Air Force and Army have their own ranking systems alongside the Unicom one.
- The Air Force and Army have specialist ranks/roles.
stoic hamlet
I’ve always liked the idea of the Airforce and Army using Commonwealth ranks/terms, personally.
Nothing to base it on
But it would show the UN in UNSC.
obsidian thistle
Well 3 theories. 343i dont consider those canon. And were only used in a case of fiction weirdness.
Thats the 3rd one
hasty locust
So the “squishy canon” is like a trial innocent until proven guilty, or in this case canon until proved rubbish
limpid meadow
Basically, yeah
humble yacht
in that respect, even Core Canon isn't strictly safe
obsidian thistle
Case by case yes. But its good to have wide ranging stuff.
Stops us debating whether a conflict that born from toy lore is canon or not
remote spruce
some Halo fans really be thinking Nerf guns dictate the designs of weapons in game
obsidian thistle
Oh toy designs have never been canon. XD Unless its a toy in-universe
They can be close.
remote spruce
i mean in like, the toy company makes an interpretation that 343i uses for the game (obviously that isn't how it works)
stoic hamlet
The design of a weapon no, but the designation seems acceptable for the AR.
obsidian thistle
Toys are more "interpretations" of stuff.
remote spruce
agreed
but i saw someone blame BoomCo for the Halo 5 plasma pistol design "because it came out before the game"
obsidian thistle
Yikes
humble yacht
that's like how people blame H5's story for not matching the marketing because the marketing came out first
stoic hamlet
Additionally, the blaster comes with a code to unlock the MA40's color scheme in Halo: Infinite.
So, whether the Infinite AR actually looks like the nerf version of not, there is an in-universe weapon called the MA40.
obsidian thistle
Yep
remote spruce
agree
obsidian thistle
Thats the consensus atm
remote spruce
any designation for the needler?
stoic hamlet
Now I just need it to be confirmed as the Airborne version and I can die somewhat happy.
remote spruce
inb4 Infinite haz no Army
humble yacht
infinite probably won't have the army. it'll probably be the navy
stoic hamlet
They’re just using Army weapons
Like how the ODST’s/Marines in Reach should have been using Marine weapons
obsidian thistle
So like lets not assume the Mini-Needler or Rocket pistol confirms HInf stuff. :)
I would love a Mini-Rocket Pistol tho.
stoic hamlet
Like a Bolter?
I mean, the M6 is basically that, just without the Gryojet and it’s SAPHE doesn’t operate like a SAPHE
remote spruce
Toy Fair should hopefully yield some cool info
versed helm
Honestly
I don't think the MA40 is exclusive to the Army
We may have already seen Marines using it in Collateral Damage
But even if they were just using the MA37, that shows that nothing's really exclusive
Well if they were supposed to be using the MA37 it was probably a slightly different weapon they would call the MA5, which may be different with the MA40 (as in, everyone's MA40s are the same so no separate designation is required).
stoic hamlet
Looters, please, let me dream
hasty locust
Lol
hasty locust
No way
terse lava
Met to say h1
hasty locust
Yeah that’s definitely closer
terse lava
So, does this mean the chief is the emperor? Would explain his luck
hasty locust
Lol
But chief has lungs.... and like other things the emperor has, still get out your tin foil hats peeps it’s conspiracy time
XD
terse lava
The chief protects
simple locust
So are there any violent political purges in Halo that are not wars?
simple locust
More specifically a political purge.
For humans.
Like the Great Purge in the Soviet Union.
Also were than any species brought to extinction by the Covenant?
terse lava
Warfleet did hint that alien races who hindered the Covenant were wiped out
Humanity was not the first
simple locust
Did they note any physical characteristics or technology?
terse lava
Only these, "their mission to recover forerunner technolgy brought the san shyuum and sangheili into contact with other races, some of whom were brought into the Covenant with promises of salvation in return for service, while others were subjected to r
Resource tithes or exterminated."
(In regards to the Covenant corvette class) " The Ardent Prayer and its sister vessels traveled to distant stars, charted dangerous slip space routes, and fought civilizations that resisted the prophets' truth."
So yea like Eternal said, nothing really in halo that matches that
Only these, "their mission to recover forerunner technolgy brought the san shyuum and sangheili into contact with other speiced, some of whom were brought into the Civensnt with promises of salvation in return for service, while others were subjected to r
Resource tithes or exterminated."
(In regards to the Covenant corvette class) " The Ardent Prayer and its sister vessels traveled to distant stars, charted dangerous slip space routes, and fought civilizations that resisted the prophets' truth."
torpid flare
were you surprised about their true heights of covenant species?
terse lava
Hm?
terse lava
Uh..ok?
terse lava
Had Faber had a proper change of heart earlier and tossed the ur didact into a burn, do you think the forerunners would have had a better chance with 2 same didacts?
still ibex
How much would the general public know about the covenant as a whole, the forerunners, the flood, etc?
humble yacht
Probably not much
terse lava
They would have only really known of the Covenant, and maybe the forerunners as "covenant gods"
versed helm
Schoolkids knew in the 2540s that the Forerunners were a bunch of extinct ancient aliens
That the Covenant worshipped
And whose artifacts the Covenant were looking for
A bit of lore from Battle Born.
Makes sense that the public might be informed of the general gist of the war after a decade or two.
still ibex
Did they know about the halo rings? Or the existence of them at the least?
versed helm
No
Halo CE was the first time any of them had been discovered since they were fired, really
Save for a few anomalies with no relevance to the Covenant War
There is a chance Covenant religious iconography and rhetoric had given humanity some notion that rings of some kind were involved in their religion
But no true understanding of the Halo array
spiral jewel
On the Reach map "Highlands" and the H4 map "Daybreak", do the CCS cruisers and the UNSC Strident class cruiser, respectively, have names? Or no?
fair hazel
i dont htink theyre named
terse lava
Doubt it
versed helm
How many times is WWII mentioned in Halo lore?
Also,what actually happened to the U.S in the Halo timeline?
jolly furnace
WWII - not many times to my knowledge. I mean it's not particularly relevant to the 26th century humanity.
terse lava
Only real was with sgt Forge whose ancestor fought in it and started an unbroken line of Forges giving military service all the way up to the sgt ginself
golden belfry
That is a very VERY long line of service lol
terse lava
Well its what his grandfather claimed
humble yacht
I find it unlikely that every new generation of Forges either a) had a boy to carry the family name, or b) never hyphenated during marriage
Though I guess if every generation of Forges had 3+ kids then point A would be more likely to have happened
clever fable
2.1 is considered best contribution to replacement rate in human births, so if the family stuck to that, it's not toooooo unlikely, but still really circumstantial.
terse lava
Yea how literal his grandfather was being idk
limpid meadow
As I recall, all that's said is that Forge's lineage had been part of the military as far back as WWII. That doesn't necessarily mean that the familiy name was "Forge" the entire time.
terse lava
Fair point
versed helm
And what actually happened to the United States in the Halo universe
limpid meadow
By the 25th century at the latest, Canada, Mexico, and the "political remnants of the United States" had united as the United Republic of North America.
There is an implication of a second US Civil War in one of the books (I don't recall which at the moment), which would seem to further imply this second civil war left the US in a bit of a wreck, eventually leading to the North American Union.
hasty locust
There has been WW2 references
I think in FoR or first strike
People who talk about tactics like admirals and such have brought it up
https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_References_in_Halo. I could’ve sworn there was a mention of pearl harbor somewhere but this list says no
limpid meadow
I remember someone once referring to the fall of Reach as the UNSC's Pearl Harbor, but I can't recall when or where, it was in-universe or not.
hasty locust
Yeah thats the exact same thing i was thinking of
terse lava
Not inaccurate
stoic hamlet
Vaz mentions the Great Patriotic War
WW2 in Russia.
And that comparison of Reach = Pearl Harbour doesn’t really work in my eyes. Not sure who wrote that.
hasty locust
I think it may have been in the book
terse lava
What would you compare it too then
stoic hamlet
Uhhh. I don’t know, to be honest.
Maybe the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans? The city no one thought would ever fall, and when it did Christianity died in the Middle East for a good few hundred years.
That seems a better comparison to me about the scale and the worth of the planet.
quiet umbra
Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack preceding any declaration of war
terse lava
That would fit high charity's fall more then reach
quiet umbra
Reach fell in the final year of the war
stoic hamlet
That’s why it doesn’t work, yeah.
It wasn’t even the UNSC’s biggest shipyards
Tribute would take that mantle, IIRC
terse lava
I guess the ww2 stuff would fit the humann forerunner war better
quiet umbra
If you absolutely want to compare it to WW2 in the pacific
terse lava
Well yes
quiet umbra
Fall of Reach would be similar to the US taking Okinawa I guess?
as in it's on Japan's doorstep
terse lava
Think charrum.Hakkor may be better there
Wait no, I am thinking of the original plan to invade Japan
stoic hamlet
Yeah. I think that might be a better comparison. US taking Okinawa.
terse lava
Hm so humanity is japan?
quiet umbra
they'd actually be much weaker than Japan in terms of power gap
Japan IRL had a decent shot at winning WW2 before Midway
hasty locust
McRobb in fall of reach said it
From halopedia
He was also extremely vigilant of his post, thinking that becoming too laid-back would get Reach attacked, a possibility he compared to Pearl Harbor.
quiet umbra
they just wanted to capture all of the US's pacific holdings and destroy their navy, forcing them into a treaty ceding the pacific
hasty locust
Hes the dude that blew up his station cause the cole protocol
terse lava
Well ancient humans definitely fit ww2 japan
quiet umbra
and they had a decent shot at it before they lost all their carriers
terse lava
They never had a chance
quiet umbra
Humanity never had a chance logistically beyond some harebrained scheme to capture a prophet
they only won because green space jesus
terse lava
Yamamoto said it himself, 6 months was all he had to work with before the U.S recovered
Soon as they did Japan was dead
quiet umbra
US industrial output drastically outpaced Japan so they're plan was to use speed and overwhelming force sing their superior naval size to essentially lock the US in California
terse lava
Lot of good that did
quiet umbra
and they were making progress but got stalled out and lost big time at Midway
Japan could've absolutely pulled it off but after Midway? No way.
They had a superior navy but it took them a long time to build it up and the US could replace their ships must faster, thats why it was imperative to end the war as quickly as possible for the Japanese
terse lava
Heh that's one reason I like the ancient era. Pretty much the Pacific war, but with overpowered vessels and aliens
quiet umbra
US's biggest advantage was paradoxically the destruction of all their battleships forced them to utilize the extremely effective aircraft carriers
which prior to WW2 were kind of just a new novelty
terse lava
Mhm
Hm I wonder, would there be a "Covenant eastern roman empire" out there? A large part of the original Covenant that still goes on?
dusky kindle
It's something to think about
terse lava
Well you have the fall of rome/high charity. With hiw vast the empire was inxouls think there would be a 2nd capital somewhere
dusky kindle
There would have to be
terse lava
Maybe not as grand as high charity itself
abstract venture
well yeah
terse lava
But I would think some san shyuum somewhere are living just fine with their sangheili guards and everyone else
abstract venture
theres tons of warlords running around saying they run the covenant now
abstract venture
i guess the remaning prophets would be what youre referring to
terse lava
That kept going
abstract venture
stole all the huragok and a bunch of warships and have they own flotilla
terse lava
They didnt take all of them and that exile fleet isn't who I am talking about
abstract venture
Jul Mdama considered them a much larger threat than the humans even though his goal was to wipe out humanity by any means
terse lava
As I said not who I am talking of
abstract venture
ight bet
terse lava
Are we to expect every single san shyuum governor in an empire of thousands of systems just up and left?
That nothingn survived of the Covenant aside from dozens of tiny shards?
abstract venture
id imagine the ones that didnt leave would be murdered pretty quick by the elites
dusky kindle
The Sangheili probably would've done something if that happened
terse lava
Thats only if the San shyuum didn't object to what happened at high charity
dusky kindle
True
terse lava
"Do you really think I would agree with changing the guard to those jiralhanae, replace our proud fleetmasters or sanction a killing of the counncil?"
dusky kindle
That is what he said
terse lava
Hm who?
dusky kindle
The Jiralhanae do not deserve that spot. They can hardly run their own role without killing each other or other species.
terse lava
Indeed
Even the minister of discovery said it was a mistake to let them into the Covenant
I greatly doubt the Covenant shattered so badly that nothing is left aside from warlords
It makes no sense
jolly furnace
Pretty sure the majority of the Covenant empires former territory has since been taken by god knows how many Covie successor factions
terse lava
You really think there is not a chunk of the empire still going?
jolly furnace
No indications there is right now
soft cradle
Dinosaur
jolly furnace
what?
terse lava
What?
abstract venture
wut?
hasty locust
Woot?
terse lava
Anyway....I would think it's possible for a covenant chunk to exist still. We see even the ecumene had rival areas
quiet umbra
Why weren't the Sangheli given the Mantle originally consider their whole culture is chivalry and honor-based
is it because these values make them easily misled or naive?
gilded mason
Because the Precursors didn't really care to test them at that time. And who knows what values ancient Sangheili had
dusky kindle
Yeah
gilded mason
Though it's silly to apply one value set to an entire species, anyway
dusky kindle
I don't think the forerunners cared that much either. They just wanted things for themselves.
quiet umbra
I meant the Precursors giving them the mantle but yeah
terse lava
Would be interesting to see how mantle-holding sangheili would have been like
I would assume something akin to warrior servants..minus the wipingnout other races
abstract venture
is there any large criminal syndicates like cerberus in mass effect for halo
humble yacht
Probably
jovial compass
who knows why warden eternal beefed chief?
terse lava
Just thought, besides the san shyuum and sangheili, wouldn't the other races be more vassals then true members of the covenant due to none were given a seat in the council(outside of one minister)
humble yacht
Well, it depends on how you define being part of an organization like that
terse lava
That's why I was curious
humble yacht
Is your average church goer a member of the church? Or does that only apply to priests and higher?
Though with the covenant it’s a bit different because they conquered species as part of inducting them into the fold
jovial compass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qrUQqDkcfc so is this lore?
terse lava
Mhm, anyone going to church would be a member of the church, not just the religious officals. And true thr covenant are a bit different, but byou have the kig-yar who are more mercs then members
gilded mason
so is this lore?
Marketing.
jovial compass
someone said the mission got cut
why would they cut the coolest mission and include blue team rescuing jul mdama ?
humble yacht
“Someone” was probably talking out of their butt
gilded mason
What?
terse lava
Or things chnged
final cedar
Iirc Blue Team was cleared for entry by the Warden because Cortana had called for them
jovial compass
so anyone know why cortana was talking about mantle of responsiubulkity? cause i never understood that
terse lava
It was the forerunner belief to protect all life
jovial compass
i do a lot of typos btw
so shes evil forerunner who wants to explode halo rings right?
gilded mason
No.
final cedar
I'm still in the middle of replaying h5, so I can't remember exactly why Warden turned, but I think it was because Chief realized what Cortana was trying to do was wrong.
jovial compass
she has the symbol on her chest
gilded mason
What symbol?
jovial compass
so forerunners blew it up for what?
terse lava
What? No, she wants to subjugate all life like the forerunners did.
jovial compass
mantle of responsibilioty logo on her chest, the one in halo 4 terminal
gilded mason
You're not making any sense to me, Cure
humble yacht
Warden didn’t attack chief immediately because he wanted to toy with the one who cortana favored so much
jovial compass
so why was didact chilling in the orb i never understood that
gilded mason
The Librarian trapped him there
jovial compass
yeah but why was he angry? he wanted to restart the beef?
and the dust things in that city on earth? those poeple got composed?
final cedar
Yes
terse lava
He was driven insane by the gravemind during the flood war
final cedar
I've never heard that part
jovial compass
so you guys think evil cortana will be killed off in infinite?
gilded mason
Yes.
final cedar
Ehh
terse lava
From Silentium, the 3rd forerunner book
jovial compass
and good cortana will return?
gilded mason
No.
terse lava
Better not
gilded mason
It sure is something.
terse lava
Hm? War?
gilded mason
Think he means whatever conflict caused that explosion.
terse lava
Oh
jovial compass
nah there were many explosions, and chief was lookning over all of it
defintiely flood beefing others
them pug noises
gilded mason
I wouldn't put any stock into it.
terse lava
Could be grunt noise too
jovial compass
nah grunts speak
final cedar
Grunts don't sound anything like that
jovial compass
it sounded like flllslslklthtthht
humble yacht
I would recommend not engaging
final cedar
Also ya gotta remember. This is a Halo Ring. The rings are used as containment for the flood.
jovial compass
so who knows about the ending of civil war on sanghelios? was that the end?
jovial compass
delta halo penintant tangent red guy he was the 05 ring guy?
final cedar
Ye
jovial compass
on those arbiter flood missions?
and those flood havent left the ring?
does halo wars 2 ending happen during halo 5 enidng?
final cedar
The one that appeared in the Arbiter missions was Guilty Spark
jovial compass
the gravemind is still alive then on 05?
final cedar
Penitent only showed up for the Gravemind cutscene
final cedar
Which one was 08?
jovial compass
remake of 04 in halo 3
final cedar
O
jovial compass
thats what i saw it be called
final cedar
Nah that was a new Gravemind iirc
jovial compass
and 09 was called the halo wars 2 one
oh but he telepathically communiacated across the galaxy?
final cedar
No that was the new Gravemind
jovial compass
theyre all the same guy with different massive bodies tho right?
final cedar
The flood in the end of 3 came from high charity and were rebuilding itself
jovial compass
with multiple voices all at once
i rmemeber there was a planet or somethng in the middle of the ark
what was that
final cedar
That was a planet used for mining materials that were used for building the replacement ring
jovial compass
oh cool never knew
was there a sun next to the ark i cant remember
it was at the edge of galaxy too?
jovial compass
light mustve come form somewhere obviously
i just cant remember a star
aybe it was on halo 3 sand missions
limpid meadow
There was an artificial light source, yes
gilded mason
The light is from an artificial satellite
jovial compass
i once saw a video explaining chief is a superhuman
and thats why guilty spark calls him reclaimer
is that true?
final cedar
A reclaimer is, iirc, any human
limpid meadow
Here's the light source: https://www.halopedia.org/images/b/b5/Ark_light_source.jpg
final cedar
Someone charged with the duty of lightning the rings
limpid meadow
That is not true
gilded mason
No, with "reclaiming" their past achievements
limpid meadow
A Reclaimer is any Human with a gaes, a genetic imprint from the Forerunners
terse lava
A reclaimer is just s title for certain humans who can interact with forerunner tech
final cedar
O
jovial compass
what you guys think will happen in infinite?
gilded mason
...Though also the Forerunner's past achievements as well.
jovial compass
sgt johnson ai?👀
limpid meadow
That gaes is what allows Humans to easily activate Forerunner technology
gilded mason
sgt johnson ai?
No
jovial compass
the reach ar means humans got crap weaponry?
limpid meadow
Most Humans are Reclaimers, but not all
final cedar
So how were the Monitors able to detect that Chief was a reclaimer just by looking at him?
limpid meadow
The AR in Halo Infinite is not the Reach AR
humble yacht
Have we ever seen a non reclaimer human?
safe siren
It could also mean that we will have to work with the Army
limpid meadow
@humble yacht Sort of, yes, in Spartan ops
humble yacht
Who?
jovial compass
monitor said hes got some level of armour and told him to get better levelled armour
safe siren
Because he had a Mjolnir
jovial compass
yeah he said it wasnt forerunner level right, some sort of code level for it
limpid meadow
There were a group of Marines that were captured by some of Jul's Elites and being forced to try and activate a Forerunner site, but they couldn't
@jovial compass Spark said Chief has class 2 armor and needed at least class 12
safe siren
AI and Mjolnir are probably the results of the Geas, that pushed humanity to work on ancillas and Combat armours
humble yacht
Was that site later activated by someone else?
hasty locust
Mjolnir was a class 2 of 12 i think he said
jovial compass
yeah the shot
carmine sleet
Crimson activated the site
jovial compass
gun
gilded mason
Mjolnir was a class 2 of 12 i think he said```
More than 12, that was just the bare minimum@humble yacht Yes, by Fireteam Crimson
humble yacht
And how did crimson activate it? Press a button? Or did they need something additional?
jovial compass
i saw
final cedar
Did Chief ever get the level 12 combat armor?
gilded mason
No.
limpid meadow
Just pressed a button
safe siren
The Didact armour would be a pretty high level, i guess
carmine sleet
Wasn't there a few consoles they had to activate?
limpid meadow
If I recall, it was in Episode 9, but don't quote me
carmine sleet
It was episode nine
humble yacht
I’m wondering if the reason the marines were unable to activate the whatever was because they didn’t do the right sequence or lacked a key
terse lava
Interesting
humble yacht
Even reclaimers need the index to activate halo. It’s not like you just press a button and kill the galaxy
limpid meadow
There wasn't anything special that the Spartans did, as I recall
It may have been multiple buttons, but they didn't need anything extra
carmine sleet
Crimson didn't have a key and they activate one after another, hit the first, then go hit the next one that activate, then the next one
jovial compass
do they sell indexes as toys?
limpid meadow
Yeah, so nothing special
jovial compass
i want one that lights up
limpid meadow
So the implication, at least to me, was that these captured marines (I think it was multiple marines) weren't Reclaimers and lacked a geas
terse lava
Speaking of the index, I know it holds genetic records of races for saving, but would it also be s targeting ledger for the halos?
humble yacht
So maybe Jul just didn’t know about the sequence
jovial compass
obviously im not goig to shove it anywhere
final cedar
The thing with the Index tho. Cortana was able to activate the new ring with the Index from 04. But wouldn't they require the Index of that Ring? If that weren't the case, could they just use any Index on any ring. If that were the case, wouldn't it be better to have only one Index?
humble yacht
Since the ring was a replacement for i04, that’s probably why the index was compatible
safe siren
Or maybe the 08 Index is the same as the 04
limpid meadow
@humble yacht Sequence wasn't really the issue. They just couldn't get the site to respond at all. With Crimson it just worked
gilded mason
but would it also be s targeting ledger for the halos?
Nah. Spark notes a species that missed being Indexed as the Halos were firing.
limpid meadow
@gilded mason That ripped at my heart
gilded mason
Yeah, rip them
jovial compass
when the 05 ring was fired, why didnt it kill the whole galxy?
too early stopped?
final cedar
Because they stopped it from truly firing
gilded mason
Well...yeah?
limpid meadow
A civilization reaching out to the stars just as the array was activated. Jeez...
terse lava
That really sucked
gilded mason
And now they're gone forever. Good times, good times... Thanks Forerunners.
safe siren
That was a punch in the stomach
jovial compass
they were in spartan op ss right?
gilded mason
What were?
jovial compass
their bug bodies?
gilded mason
No.
terse lava
No
jovial compass
the percursors?
carmine sleet
Imagine if it turned out that species was immune to the Flood. How different would things have been if they had decided to hold off firing, check that new species and find that out
safe siren
No.
That was a Covenant Vehicle
limpid meadow
Precursors have technically never appeared in the games.
jovial compass
i remember there were some precursor looking things
jolly furnace
Reclaimer has 2 meanings - one it refers collectivelyl to humanity for they are to assume the Mantle.
limpid meadow
Although, the Flood technically are a form of the Precursors, so in that sense they have
gilded mason
i remember there were some precursor looking things```
That was a machineA Harvester
jolly furnace
and 2 - for any human with a geas that lets use forerunner tech
jovial compass
i thought that they were i was always confused
final cedar
In the h5 mission "Alliance," you could see some creatures flying through the canyon next to the talking grunt. Were those Drones?
safe siren
The Harvester
limpid meadow
Just native life to Sanghelios
humble yacht
Any geas application would have had to happen before reseeding
jolly furnace
Also what's this bout the Ark's Sun? It's artificial. You can tell by the machinery/spikes on it
humble yacht
I don’t see how every human after reseeding wouldn’t have the geas
Even if it weren’t expressed the same way in every human
final cedar
Which was what I was getting at
jolly furnace
The geas die out with the people when those people have no offspring. simple
limpid meadow
Because the humans the Librarian originally collected were largely killed
jolly furnace
the geas doesnt get passed on.
limpid meadow
She had to rush back to Earth to collect more
jovial compass
the geas? whats that
limpid meadow
@jolly furnace Yes they do
jovial compass
mendicant bias' food?
limpid meadow
Geasa are genetic and get passed on like any genes can
humble yacht
The geas would have had to be applied to a gene sample before it grew into a human
jolly furnace
@limpid meadow I mean if that particular person has no offspring. thus that person's geas is gone
limpid meadow
Ah, okay
jovial compass
what is mendicant bias and why did everyone make a video on it a couple years ago?
limpid meadow
@humble yacht Not necessarily
jovial compass
ive never seen it talked about in a halo game
humble yacht
The librarian wasn’t around to apply geas after the halos fired
limpid meadow
Forerunners were extremely capable of manipulating life, even on the genetic level
jolly furnace
They were applied in multiple ways i think
jolly furnace
Holographically on the genetic level among others i think
Geas are weird in general
humble yacht
We don’t even know how many samples she collected for reseeding humanity
Or what those samples were
I assumed they were dna samples
humble yacht
Big difference between a dna sample and a full person
limpid meadow
She collected both
jovial compass
somone explain mendicant bias where he comes from and what his intention is and if hes still alive
and 343 guilty spark is still alive?
humble yacht
So then how was humanity reseeded?
limpid meadow
The Conservation measure called for the collection of both living beings and genetic samples
jolly furnace
yes to 2nd question - @jovial compass
terse lava
Mendicant Bias was a powerful forerunner ai who was charged with defending thr forerunners and fighting the flood. He later defected to the flood and was defeated
humble yacht
Did saved humans get plopped on an empty planet and just started repopulating
limpid meadow
Beings collected were reseed with Keyships several years after the Halos were fired
humble yacht
Or did the ark grow new humans and ship them to earth
jovial compass
oh wow, the halo legends guy
man defected?
rah
hows that possible?
does that mean ai under cortana control can defect?
limpid meadow
Mostly beings collected were transported back to their home worlds. There's a short story where we see the IsoDidact saying goodbye to Riser, a Human, on Earth
jolly furnace
Question - did those humans the Librarian melted down into liquid/whatever in Silentium get reformed?
limpid meadow
The genetic samples collected could presumably be used to create new human life if the array were activated again
jovial compass
librarian killed humans?
humble yacht
It just seems to me rather short sighted to only apply a geas to some of the humans when the entire species was supposed to eventually reclaim the mantle
terse lava
Bodies ended up as fertilizers
jolly furnace
Cos I know forerunners had cloning tech and could remake entire individuals from DNA/RNA/silicon samples
jovial compass
id rather just get it digitally
do you guys also think sanghelios design copied kamino from star wars?
limpid meadow
The plan likely was to apply it to them all, but as I said, here original stock was digitized by the Composer (largely, some survived) and the Librarian had to rush back to Earth to collect more
humble yacht
And what happened if the geas-positive samples died and didn’t pass on the geas? That would have thrown a wrench in her plan
jolly furnace
then their gone
unless those people had siblings with the same geas and had offspring
and even then the geas may not get passed on
limpid meadow
Geasa can contain "instructions", so there may have been a contingency to ensure the geasa didn't disappear
humble yacht
We have effectively one instance in the lore of humans not being able to interact successfully with forerunner tech, while every other interaction between humans and forerunner tech was successful
limpid meadow
Yep
humble yacht
I think it’s dubious to conclude from that that not all humans are reclaimers
jolly furnace
Lets hope. The Librarian wasn't optimitic about the patterns she stored in humanity surviving long term after the Greater Ark battle and Omega halo genocide
humble yacht
Given that there are other logical explanations as to why those marines did not activate the requiem map like Crimson did
humble yacht
I respectfully disagree with that assertion
jovial compass
so do you think 4 different factions are beefing in infinite seriex x reveal?
limpid meadow
Go play the episode and decide for yourself
jovial compass
i also didnt see the actual ring in that reveal#
humble yacht
I read the transcript
terse lava
Didnt Huntersn in the Dark imply that too? As Tragic points out he wouldn't listen to Vale?
jovial compass
was it confirmed to be the zeta ring
humble yacht
Tragic solitude was like guilty spark
limpid meadow
Tragic was rampant, I wouldn't put any stock in his disobedience.
jovial compass
also you think infinite takes place on anything other than a halo ring?
carmine sleet
Sanghelios looks nothing like Kamino, Scritz. One's a water planet, the other has land
humble yacht
Angry over his installation being broke
jovial compass
the sanghelios one
mission
the round looking buildings
star wars it looks dark blue sanghelios was purple
terse lava
That small city? It was an ancient holy site to the guardian
carmine sleet
It's grey in Star Wars, not blue
jovial compass
it was deffo copied from star wars
carmine sleet
Not really, the building shapes are different
jovial compass
those were my favourite missions in 5
carmine sleet
At most, it was inspired
terse lava
And better
final cedar
Wasn't the core of the covenant ship in the h2 cutscene a copy of something from Star Wars?
Or at least looked really similar
jolly furnace
The reactor?
jovial compass
the bomb scene?
final cedar
Ye
jolly furnace
It sorta resembles the DS's hypmatter reactor but not really
jovial compass
idk where star wars has that? death star core?
jolly furnace
Some think the reactor of a covie ship in H2 looks like the deth 2 reactor core.
I dont really see it
A better comparison for that is Anubis mothership reacotr in stargate sg-1
that's a homage to SW
limpid meadow
I can see the comparison. But I'd argue the imagery isn't unique to any one sci-fi series.
terse lava
Yea, look at the sangheili and jiralhanae, similar to the predators and wookies
limpid meadow
The core of the Covenant ship honestly reminds me of a Warp Core, if I had to choose specific franchise
terse lava
Beam me up arby
jolly furnace
I can see the warp core resemblance
Huh so i just read pinch fusion reactors are surprisingly primitve for the Covenant? Halo First strike.
I mean they replicate the conditions inside stars
terse lava
Remember, most covenant vessels we are are centuries old
Newest one was ironically the first we saw, Truth and Reconciliation
jolly furnace
Not sure I'd call replicating fusion from within stars primitive.
So what newer ones just had more efficient versions of those reactors?
terse lava
I would say it's more " notbroke why fix it?"
terse lava
The corevvte from Reach was centuries old, the carrier shadow of Intent was built in 2070
Well they likely do have better reactors
jolly furnace
Yeah
abstract venture
its not that its primnitive
its that covenant dont use smart ais so they cant make thje full use of their tech
jolly furnace
I just found it odd given I know of other extremely advanced sci-fi races that use more or less the same power source for their ships so it threw me off since those races are OP
Like the Asgard of SG-1
abstract venture
unlike cortana if shes given any thec
terse lava
Any what?
terse lava
Funny looking back on the halo graphic novel how unique some of the artwork and weapons are. Never really noticed before but at least according the New Mombasa tale, sangheili had war hammers too
abstract venture
tech
exotic pilot
The halo encyclopedia is a great job at showing off the og art styles of halos 1-3 if ur interested in a closer looks at the details.
obsidian thistle
I'd recommend Mythos over the Encyclopedia
Very much the Encyclopedia is flawed. And filled with mistakes.
terse lava
Or taken from halopedia
abstract venture
What were some of the bigger mistakes?
gilded mason
I remember one being they created the United Rebel Front from Halopedia talking about "a united rebel front", or something along those lines.
obsidian thistle
*Taken from 2008/9 Halopedia @terse lava. Best to keep that distinction around. Back when Halopedia was a mixed bag.
terse lava
Fair point CIA
obsidian thistle
But a huge mistake was saying the Halo 3 multiplayer ranking system was canon.
Even Halopedia at the time was different lol.
terse lava
That's just odd lol
jolly furnace
Sure I remember the days when Halopedia had speculation sections on its pages like Forerunners and Precursors
Ironically some of the theories on those pages or on forums regarding the latter came true
terse lava
I remember when the flood page was only halo 2 flood
jolly furnace
No memory of that
terse lava
Pre halo 3
terse lava
Btw, warfleet said it took the covenant some time to gather their dedicated war vessels, yet they had them at Harvest by 2531
humble yacht
Didn’t the war start in 2525?
terse lava
Yes
humble yacht
I think 6 years falls within “some time”
abstract venture
It's all relative though
In Oblivion a year in the war the Covenant pulled up a fleet of 4k ships with 20 cas carriers
'some time' could mean anything, probably only a few months though
gilded mason
20 cas carriers
20 ships larger than CASs
abstract venture
I thought it was 5 ships larger and 20 cas carriers
gilded mason
Nope
terse lava
Did it really amount to 4k though? Dont think it was that large
abstract venture
Yeah, Nizats fleet was stated to be 100 ships and each of the split fleets was double the size of his
gilded mason
Tethered to the stalk beneath the dome were thousands of capital ships—a hundred the size of the Pious Rampage, and twenty even larger.
abstract venture
So 20 fleets of 200
terse lava
Well that's what I get for not reading it for some time
Says quite a lot though if they can dedicate that many to just humanity....
abstract venture
Yeah, and consider we've never seen any fleets that large with that composition in Halo
So my guess is they steamrolled early on then we're recalled
gilded mason
Says quite a lot though if they can dedicate that many to just humanity....```
And that's immediately after the war beganTo help keep the ear a secret
terse lava
Does make me wonder then how large the entire fleet was empire wide
abstract venture
Probably hundreds of thousands of warships
Since the forces we've seen in the war were largely from a single anti piracy force
jolly furnace
So the Covies had several 1000 large capital ships at its height at least.
Wonder how many the UNSC had
terse lava
Think...2000?
terse lava
Didnt the assembly say 2000
abstract venture
assembly isnt the most reliable
either dumb ais or very far rampant older smart ais
jolly furnace
Well the Assembly's canon status is up in the air till further notice
jolly furnace
canon for now
but it seems 343i wants to remove them
given catalog's statements about them
terse lava
Well do we have any other sources on human fleet numbers?
jolly furnace
not to my knowledge
half apex
which part of the covenentant war?
terse lava
Guess the beginning
abstract venture
what did catalog say bout them
terse lava
About who/what?
terse lava
Alright
simple locust
So does Israel exist in Halo or was it implied to be destroyed with the US before all of North America became one country?
feral perch
That's an interesting question.
versed helm
I would say Halo's universe is constructed so that, between now and the 22nd century, we're not supposed to know what went down
feral perch
I don't think the U.S. was destroyed so much as adapted into something larger.
minor wing
question for yall lore buffs.
Does The Haloverse have something akin to the Geneva convention.
specificly pre-covvie since all rules go out the window in a fight for survival
versed helm
Well given that humanity's primary fighting force is UN-derived
It's fair to assume they have rules. Which they frequently break.
I think different regulations have popped up in obscure places in different books
minor wing
Hmm. So we can assume something akin to it exists
but we don't have concrete evidence.
versed helm
The biggest set of rules your average UNSC commander on the frontline against the Covenant needs to worry about, however, is The Cole Protocol
minor wing
oh?
versed helm
A bunch of guidelines for not leading the Covenant to any human colonies accidentally.
gilded mason
Basically, purge all nav data (or was it all data?) if capture is imminent
versed helm
Also, given it's the 26th century, there might be a special set of rules regarding how wars are fought in space.
Like "don't strap a bunch of thrusters to an asteroid and drop it on a planet"
'Course, since the pre-Covenant conflict was UNSC vs a bunch of terrorists/freedom fighters or whatever, rules probably go out the window there as well
minor wing
So the reason for all these questions is specificly because I am part of a Halo group in Arma and I brought up not executing captured rebels.
versed helm
Well, we have scenes in the books of UNSC marines torturing rebels 🤷♂️
Contact Harvest opening.
And then they execute them.
minor wing
And they said that we don't have to follow the Genevetion convention if we aren't on the same planet
versed helm
Not sure it works that way exactly xD
minor wing
That is my thinking.
versed helm
But clearly UNSC soldiers use any means necessary to put down rebels
minor wing
Well they had surrendered and we could take them and turn them in to get some additional rewards. but that is some what tedious
so they just tart putting them down
versed helm
Well, that's basically what happened in CH
minor wing
in CH?
versed helm
Contact Harvest
gilded mason
Contact Harvest
versed helm
Unit of elite marines working for Naval Special Warfare torture a bunch of innies with the classic kneecap-shattering method
In order to get the location of a bomb out of them
gilded mason
a bit rude tbh
versed helm
And then cap all the ones they don't need
gilded mason
Isn't torture, like, a pretty bad way to get information?
feral perch
It's one option.
minor wing
BUT
if you know they have info then torture cna be useful to get it out of them
Also apparently I just got a warning for saying a curse word.
minor wing
That's good to know.
minor wing
Anyway. Torture really only works if you know they have the info and need it. Poor if they may or may not have it.
gilded mason
Ask Grim to reset you. =)
versed helm
It was an on-the-clock thing
The marines were trying to prevent a bombing in a city
It ended up going really bad
gilded mason
Fun times
versed helm
If you're into Arma I recommend reading Contact Harvest. It's got some out-of-date lore but it's pretty grounded and probably the single most useful info dump on Halo lore there is outside of the games
Very even-handed coverage of all relevant perspectives going into the Covenant War
Staten is just brilliant
minor wing
it was only Arma that was getting me in to Pre covvie lore at all
versed helm
Silent Storm may also be a good read.
It's about the SIIs. Between them they're probably the peak of Halo as military sci-fi.
The only issue with CH is that it severely understates the amount of human colonies and at one point accidentally conflates Epsilon Eridani and Eridanus into the same system.
But if you ignore that the lore 100% holds up. And the only errors in Silent Storm are some obscure stuff relating to Covenant timekeeping and the SPNKr getting called the MAV/AV instead of MAV/AW
And Silent Storm also happens to basically be the best Halo book of all time.
The Cole Protocol is another you'd probably enjoy.
cloud trellis
Question how does The fall to reach differ from the game
versed helm
Principally
The Battle of Reach is changed so that it's a protracted military campaign lasting several weeks
And not a massacre that took place over a single day
The main reason for that change, as far as I can tell, is that Bungie and Nylund were (at least when TFoR came out) on very different pages regarding the power of Naval weapons and orbital bombardment in the Halo universe.
To bridge the gap between the two interpretations, 343 has provided the information that the UNSC maintains tight control over information regarding a Covenant attack. Battles over human worlds can go on for months with some people on the world blissfully unaware. In this case, 343 reconciled the differences by having it so that it seemed like a one-day affair to the characters of TFoR, but only because they were out of the loop.
Still means you can't take TFoR at face value, though.
Other biggest discrepancy between TFoR and the games is the nature of Chief's Mark V testing. In the book the implication is clear that Chief is intended to be the first Spartan ever to be issued Mark V, but in the game, NOBLE are wearing Mark V. Once again, an issue where a workaround has been provided - Chief was testing a later version of the armour with the capability to play host to a fully-functional smart AI - but one where you can't take the text of the book at face value.
Even with those workarounds, there are still date discrepancies which I don't know enough about to get into.
One of the biggest discrepancies between TFoR and the games for me, however, is actually a discrepancy between TFoR and Halo 2. In TFoR, it is said that orbital SMAC platforms can accelerate a slug to 4% of light speed. If the UNSC had orbital weapons with that sort of power, Regret's ship in Halo 2 could not have survived to land in Mombasa - clearly, ODP projectiles do not travel that fast.
Which means they have less range and do less damage.
terse lava
Noticed all this Geneva con stuff and wanted to add something. Humanity dropped pirates on a hot planet to just die
Their grandkids were still surviving on the planet and dying young 50 years later
versed helm
The UNSC does not mess around.
terse lava
Ditto on the Covenant
versed helm
The Covenant do not mess around unless anything Forerunner happens to be involved
gilded mason
"Perhaps we're the same, you and I."
versed helm
Or unless they're tripping over their own feet because of their competing interests
cloud trellis
alright looters some of that later stuff you wrote went over my head
gilded mason
fast stuff go big boom
versed helm
Basically, if they could accelerate projectiles that fast, the entire Earth defence grid could more or less have simultaneously opened up on Regret's fleet.
Instead of just Cairo's battlecluster.
cloud trellis
oh
humble yacht
Break the sound barrier, sonic boom
Does that mean if you break the light barrier there is a light boom?
cloud trellis
well rip the covenant they are no more
humble yacht
versed helm
Now, I want to be clear. The ODPs over Earth were Moncton-class OWPs, and the ones over Reach were, as we see in Warfleet, a different model which was approximately 150% larger.
terse lava
Nah if you go that route, Covenant get upgrades too
versed helm
But 150% is not enough of a difference to take you from a perfectly ordinary heavy mass driver to a kinetic cannon of absolute devastation and carnage which could crack open a planet.
humble yacht
Planet cracking? This ain’t dead space
terse lava
Or is it
humble yacht
Space zombies? Check
Helmet with glowy slits? Check
Plasma weapons? Check
versed helm
Basically
humble yacht
Welp
versed helm
Reach confirmed that Halo's power levels are like, somewhat grounded
Expanse-ish with extra magitech
And not y'know. Absolutely godlike
humble yacht
That’s probably for the best
terse lava
Calling it now, when the precursors perished, some became brethren moons
gilded mason
Make us whole, John
versed helm
Also btw
Apparently the mini-MAC on the Mammoth A) is a railgun
Which confirms that MAC can refer to both railguns and coilguns
And B) can be used to hit orbital targets
gilded mason
"And how does that make you feel?"
versed helm
Which confirms my theory about weapons like onagers and mini-MACs being something that could prevent the Covenant from using their energy projectors to glass you from orbit
And, if supplemented with enough CIWs to mitigate plasma torpedo bombardments (which would be a heck of a lot)
Could force the Covenant into a ground war without the need for Forerunner McGuffins or intelligence gathering
Which imo is a very good thing
tough magnet
Who is master chief
terse lava
Idk, covenant may still be willing to glass even with the threat.
versed helm
They'd lose ships
Look at what an onager was able to do to a CCS that tried to glass
Then think of a what a couple dozen of em protecting a major human city could do
Supplemented by missiles
terse lava
Well look at those two at frigates at reach. Jumped right into the grid to deliver rangers
And were atomized
versed helm
So the point you're making is that instead of playing it safe in the face of this threat the Covenant would just sacrifice themselves
I am okay with this 🌍
terse lava
They may if forerunner relics are there
versed helm
The thing I want is just more robust rationales for protracted ground engagements
terse lava
Heck, Forerunners did the same but worse. Mass waves at charrum hakkor
You want the covenant to invade a world that lacks anything forerunner?
versed helm
More or less
I've been coming up with this story in my mind for some time, I think I've talked about it before
A Halo narrative in the style of Full Metal Jacket
Centres on a Marine who goes through boot camp, gets forged into a killer, becomes an NCO
Rocks up on a valuable resource world on the cusp of rebellion, pretty much effortlessly quashes that rebellion with the weight of Navy and Marine Corps behind her
And then just as they're making planetfall (the initial engagements against the Innies are in orbit, boarding stations), a Covenant fleet of moderate size emerges from Slipspace, atomizes the Punic-class supercarrier that brought her to the system, and forces all the surviving UNSC troops to go to ground in a major city.
Which happens to have a comprehensive defence grid overseen by a Smart AI who styles herself after Joan of Arc
terse lava
Amusing but why would the covenant invade if no relics are present
versed helm
To kill humans
They are waging a war of genocide
The manage to get the coordinates of this world, and a Fleetmaster sees this as the change to forge a reputation
So he takes his fleet and gets busy destroying all humans
terse lava
That doesnt answer the question. They can just glass them
versed helm
Well, this is where we go back to the onager thing.
terse lava
Ah I see
versed helm
They do try and glass them, but they lose ships and get forced into a slugfest
That's the very general premise minus a lot of details
And the scenario is presented as somewhat typical of the Covenant War
terse lava
So you are trying to repeat, The Return?
versed helm
As I said, it's a very UNSC-focused story.
Full Metal Jacket-style. Attempting to tell a grounded, grim story from the perspective of a UNSC grunt.
And by grunt I mean infantry, not y'know. Unggoy xD
terse lava
I met as in that tale, no known relics at the time, he just sends ground forces to fight and 3 days later glasses the world
versed helm
A big thing I want to do is sorta conceptualize how I think you'd make a UNSC marine and what life would be like for them.
I want to draw both parallels to and distinctions from the sort of shouty US Marine Corps drill instructor stuff you see.
Look at the sort of training marines would do to prepare themselves for fighting in different gravitic conditions, and how isolated they'd be going from place to place on warships, in-and-out of cryo.
I think of it a little like life in the Roman Legions. You sign up and 20 years of your life is basically gone, if you survive.
Very few opportunities to go back home.
terse lava
Not inaccurate
versed helm
And I also want to tackle some stuff relating to gender and humanity, of course.
terse lava
May I make a suggestion? Why not use jiralhanae as the covenant forces if you are going for grim
versed helm
Examine this 26th century culture.
terse lava
May give them more reason to go ground, walking buffet for one and "for fun"
versed helm
Well, as I said before, the premise if they don't go to ground, they don't win the battle.
terse lava
Think they would be far force to face for a dark, grim marine view
I was giving added reasons, not replacements
versed helm
They straight up don't have the fleet power to brute force the defence grid, not without losing basically the entire fleet
I don't really need more reasoning than that. Plus, elites are cooler.
And more iconic.
terse lava
Of course they are cooler and ionic
versed helm
I've also thought in the past that a Halo Wars novelization would be a good way to explore the Covenant War in a more granular way
terse lava
Perhaps
versed helm
Anyway, moving on
Imagine how sick it'd be if we get a Canon Fodder soon with lore details on all the Nerf guns that got announced
MA40 lore when
terse lava
shrug bidding my time until a plasma rifle comes out
versed helm
I'd like to know more about how plasma weapons cool.
Like their venting process can't just be convection because it works in null-atmosphere.
It must be some form of coolant medium
terse lava
Likely some forerunner variant
versed helm
Of course, it is also a mystery as to how UNSC weapons don't melt when fired in a vacuum either
We need more cooling lore all-round tbh
This is why I laugh a little when people criticize the designs of weapons in Halo
It's like, man, there's so much about these guns we don't understand.
Just, UNSC guns spit FMJ and eject brass, but they also work perfectly fine in a vacuum and in some cases exhibit a profound ability not to break the user's shoulder when firing.
Looking at you MA5B
And you M90
terse lava
Neural physics
versed helm
More like advanced shock absorbing substances and fine-tuned counter-balanced recoil mechanisms
And insulated liquid-metal heat sinks
But yeah. Daily request for gun lore.
strong sage
So what happens when a C709 Longsword flies in the normal atmosphere?
carmine sleet
It flies
strong sage
i mean isnt't for space or uhh vacuum rated