What halo?
#lore-and-universe
thin patrol
hasty locust
“Two words for you FI-RE”
thin patrol
Bruh
torpid flare
"Please enjoy my bright blue balls"
hasty locust
Spark’s lines are the best
torpid flare
"Then they love the scent of Bvlgari"
"yea i am doing a little of product placement"
"I gotta get paid too"
versed helm
What halo?
Halo 3
@thin patrol
torpid flare
"Yo the Arbiter just got wasted"
versed helm
All of the voice lines are on YouTube if you wanna hear them in all of their glory
thin patrol
Nice
torpid flare
"Perhaps you should take a break" "I could really use a nap"
"Do you do foot massages, Arbiter?"
hasty locust
“John is dead? I'm just going to ... eat my gun.”
thin patrol
Brruhhhh
torpid flare
"Purple Hearts for everybody"
"If you got issue with me performance, we should have rational adult conversion"
"Zugzug"
versed helm
Do Sangheili gamble?
terse lava
Some likely
terse lava
Could see it
hasty locust
That’s not canon doh
humble yacht
indeed
terse lava
You have not played halo 2 or 3?
thin patrol
I've played 3
terse lava
Well johnson was in that, how did you think he survived halo 1?
humble yacht
big thoughts
thin patrol
Well what I'm saying is I didn't know he died in Halo 1 till now
So
I'm not that el stupido
terse lava
He didnt die though
humble yacht
well that's obviously not true
terse lava
Halo 2 though 5 was thel having a nightmare
humble yacht
wouldn't make since since thel didn't meet John until Halo 2
they'd never met so how would he know what John looked like?
terse lava
Reports from the ring
humble yacht
i heard you can't dream new faces, only faces you've seen before.
we see too many new faces in 2-5 for it to be a dream
terse lava
Heard that too
versed helm
Ive heard if you randomly Wake up at night its because something was staring at you 👀
terse lava
Never heard that
humble yacht
i can tell you that's not true
i've woken up in the night for several other reasons
versed helm
Ive woken up at night because of other reasons too
But one time I woke up for no apparent reason 👀
torpid flare
i found my old halo screenshots while cleaning my pc
terse lava
Ok?
thin patrol
Are you questioning the mini chief?
As a person with a sangheili profile picture
I would advise you to lower your tone or face before mini chief's wrath
versed helm
The Judge has been called a Heretic 👀
thin patrol
He shall die
terse lava
Was just random
versed helm
Come on now Ado, alot of messages are random in This server
thin patrol
We are all homies
We can say whatever we want
I'm going to tell you something
Cheeseburgers are scary
terse lava
Touche @versed helm
versed helm
Exactly Ado 😏
terse lava
You know, I wonder why the covenant made the seraph fighters in a way that required the pilot to be tortured
terse lava
In a sense
humble yacht
elaborate
versed helm
Im really curious now
terse lava
"Covenant strikecraft pilots connect to their flight systems using direct neural interfaces, with minimal safety cutouts and filters. The pilot's body is rendered immobile to prevent self injury, and angony is inflected in exchange for superior control. Sangheili enter battle meditation before completing a machine link to control the pain, while jiralhanae embrace the interface burn to trigger their own focus."
No wonder sangheili pilots are almost always majors though
versed helm
Or rangers
thin patrol
Hm
terse lava
Rangers with flight harnesses anyway
versed helm
Ye
terse lava
Still, for such an advanced civilization it seems a step backwards.
thin patrol
I always liked killing Elite rangers because they would flop to the ground after you killed them
Well it does say they did it so they would gain superior control
And the best way to do that is neurally
terse lava
Yes I understand that, but one would think they could pull it off without the pain
thin patrol
So it is pretty advanced just has a setback
humble yacht
technologically advanced, yes, but using pain to achieve enlightenment or higher planes of being is not uncommon in fanatics
terse lava
True chim, but one would think that would be mentioned had it been the case
humble yacht
there are a few things in the lore that could use some explicit fleshing out
terse lava
Mhm
I mean truthfully I could see this as a thing from a someone going through penanceike those on the destroyers
humble yacht
there couldn't possibly be that many covenant in timeout at any one moment
terse lava
Well the destroyers were vessels for those who are disobedient
gilded mason
A lot
At least hundreds of billions, but I would not be surprised if it got to the trillions
feral perch
And considering that their military was the way for Sangheili to better themselves, I would not find it surprising if the deviants, e.g. the "human" Sangheili, were more or less naturally grouped together onboard Destroyers.
Plus Grunts who displeased their superiors, and the ever-scheming Jackals.
gilded mason
the "human" Sangheili
Hm?
gilded mason
Ayit 'Sevi
gilded mason
Of course. I imagine people like him were in great abundance
But, I doubt it was people like him that were ordered onto destroyers
feral perch
But he was deviant, and for those who didn't want death or banishment, it seems that failed warriors and other deviants were the ones manning them
They did, after all, become more like privateers than any other officially-sanctioned Covenant vessels, I believe.
gilded mason
I don't see anything about being a deviant making one suitable for Destroyer work
Just disgraced warriors or those deemed unsuitable for service in other fleets.
And I don't really see him as deviant to begin with.
feral perch
I think it's implied. Disgraced could mean a variety of things.
gilded mason
I see it to mean "majorly screwed up"
feral perch
deviant to the honor traditions of mainstream Sangheili culture
as it was during the original Covenant
Well yeah I'm sure that's one of the bigger reasons 😆
gilded mason
There was subterfuge even during the time of the Covenant, use of active camo, etc, so I don't really buy Ayit being a big outlier
terse lava
The reasons could vary, all one would have to do is goof up in a major way
gilded mason
Yeah
terse lava
Now yes, we have seen those who didnt agree with edic put away elaewhere
Xytan for example became too good at his job
gilded mason
And I just have a big issue with any "The Sangheili all believe this with only token outliers"
terse lava
Would say a healthy mixture.like reality
Who knows how many sangheili were in the galaxy
gilded mason
Yup
terse lava
We know the ussans ditched the covenant, as did two fleetmasters
One big enough to have a.massive fleet of blockade runners stored away
The other... just vanished
And who knows what happened to the luminal beacon fleet
abstract venture
One big enough to have a.massive fleet of blockade runners stored away
@terse lava who?
terse lava
Ophon Qaram, a "legendary apostate and supreme commander" many of the blockade runners you see post halo 3 are from his fleet
@abstract venture
Also, if I am reading it correctly, it appears the runners were used for quite a long time. There is a mention that sangheili today are unused to the scented air and subsonic hymnals that were normal 2000 years ago
snow halo
do you guys think we'll have something like the Spartans by the 26th century
true jolt
How does time work in Halo? Like how do the UNSC keep track of time? Do they reference Earth days when in a ship?
versed helm
Full disclosure, we don't have an exact canonical basis for this.
We know that the UNSC military always measures dates by the Earth calendar.
But I think it's conceivable that the Battlenet would adjust timekeeping across a warzone automatically so everyone's synchronized
So it'd be a fluid system managed by automated systems and dumb AI.
true jolt
I wonder how they keep it maintained across those vast space distances. I'd assume wavespace but I don't actually know what it is except slipspace for communications and significantly faster?
abstract venture
i think i remember them using 'sydney standard time' even while in space in the novels
versed helm
cuz thats where oni is based out of
also can I just rant about operation uppercut and that it's the reason reach fell
sorry jorge
The fleet of valiant prudence was so sad.
its barely a fleet
it was 9 ships and a 29 km personal overcompensation device
terse lava
Are you saying it fell due to wiping out a good chunk of the navy or some odd reason?
versed helm
taking out a CSO indicated an immidiete threat that required heavy backup
it looks scary but thats the whole point- its used for occupation.
terse lava
You do know that had nothing to do with the covenant who came right?
Rho(the shipmaster of the long night) would have been punished had the other fleet found him there and Reach unglassed
humble yacht
Why would the artifact retrieval team be concerned with glassing?
versed helm
^^
im saying the size of the reinforcement force would have been much smaller if such an expensive asset were not destroyed
terse lava
They wouldn't be, but the other fleet woulsnt have known that. Rho was only there on his way to gathering relics to find the forerunner capital
versed helm
you can. they had an easy enough time picking off the rest of Rho's tiny fleet
terse lava
...that still leaves the carrier itself
versed helm
which is a big slow moving target
humble yacht
That they couldn’t damage aside from a homemade slipspace bomb
versed helm
save that kind of tactic for later
humble yacht
If they had another way of dealing with it, they would have
jovial temple
Rip S-052
versed helm
cheers to that at least
still, it always struck me how stupidly small rho's fleet was
terse lava
It was an artifact retrieval fleet, fit its duty quite well
versed helm
i mean i guess
terse lava
The whole fleet can be carried in one vessel and reduled there too
terse lava
They were cheap enough that 20 were sent after humanity at the dawn of the war
versed helm
20 isnt a lot
abstract venture
LNoS had nothing to do with the covenants war with humans
bright briar
20 does seem like a lot when you're talking about CSOs.
abstract venture
the fleetmaster just wanted to steal as much forerunner relics before the main invasion fleet came
he didnt care about the war with humanity
terse lava
yep
terse lava
Besides, think on this, 20 were sent, humanity only ever wiped out a single one on purpose decades later
versed helm
I'm more talking about the fact that you would want to defend that kind of economic investment
building a ship thats a third longer than the island of manhattan takes resources and time
defending that in wartime with 9 ships seems a bit careless
bright briar
It wasn't supposed to be used for much combat, so it makes sense. A CSO could handle the engagements based around Forerunner sites, from sentinels and the like.
versed helm
im not saying it was
terse lava
Well, the Covenant had stations of similar size, one, the Unyielding Heirophant, was wiped out by blue team, and took out 480 vessels around it. None in the Covenant aside from Truth knew of that
versed helm
if you have something expensive you keep it in a safe
terse lava
Losing a single mega carrier likely doesnt mean much
versed helm
I think the news of the hirophant not reaching people's ears was more due to control of information than of lack of caring
terse lava
Yet truth shrugged it off too as an inconvenience
versed helm
he aint the picture of wisdom
Truth was a pure politician. He was cold and calculating. If you were a detriment you were gone.
His ideology was pretty Randian actually now that I think about it.
But instead of capitalism being the proving ground of one's worth like Rand talks about, Truth looks to a very literal interpertation of 'survival of the fittest.'
humble yacht
i don't think the covenant worried about expenses the way the UNSC does
low pelican
can i ask something
humble yacht
you just did
abstract venture
yeah
low pelican
when the forerunners created the halo array or ring as you call and activated it to destroy the flood and after humans were starting over
abstract venture
truth lost 500 ships in first strike including tons of Cas carriers and just shrugged
humble yacht
what do you mean fast?
low pelican
and how the political colony got well invented
abstract venture
they were much slower than the elites and prophets
humble yacht
100,000 years passed between the end of the Forerunner-Flood war and the events of Halo
abstract venture
elites had an interstellar empire while human civillization was just starting out
versed helm
Has it been said how Carter got shot inside the Pelican?
bright briar
Most likely from the banshees behind him. No official word, as far as I know.
humble yacht
between the end of The Package and the opening of Pillar of Autumn, we don't know exactly what happened. In all likelihood, the pelican was attacked from the front first, then they flew past the banshees and the banshees gave chase
or maybe not. it's weird because Carter has wounds on his front but there are no holes in the cockpit window, nor are there holes in the back of the pilot seat
stoic hamlet
Shrapnel?
humble yacht
From what?
humble yacht
Phantoms and banshees don’t fire anything that could ricochet
Maybe if a brute fired some spikes in from the back
But how would that brute be flying?
carmine sleet
If that was the case and it was a Brute shooting at them, he'd have spiker rounds sticking out of his chest. Whereas we clearly we see that's not the case
humble yacht
I know, I don’t really think it was a brute
I guess needle rounds ricochet but I don’t see them firing needlers into the pelican
carmine sleet
Aye, especially since they didn't seem too bothered about anyone inside, just wanting to blow the thing up
bright briar
Maybe a plasma cannon fired, hit near him and the splash hit him? I haven't watched the cutscene recently so Idk if that fits.
humble yacht
Again, no holes or even cracks in the front window
carmine sleet
Or really anywhere near Carter
fair hazel
Career could of made it to the pillar of autumn honestly
But nooo he uncesserailt sacrificed himself
noble fjord
Question, because I haven't read a halo book in a while so my memory is a bit foggy.
Have any of the Halo Wars 1/2 Vehicles (that have not appeared outside of those games) been seen/mentioned in any of the books?
abstract venture
some of them
fair hazel
Yes
The cobra is however one of those that sadly has been left more in the dust
Vulture have been mentioned in mortal Dictata and seen in comics
They should be mentioned more honestly.
Some have. Some haven’t much
dense falcon
Has Johnson always been a Sgt. Major? Or did he get a promotion somewhere in the games?
terse lava
Nope, in-game that has always been his rank
versed helm
wish they mentioned more vehicles
terse lava
They do in books, covenant have a 3 prong dropship and a vehicle called an umbra
versed helm
rip fleet battles for ship lore
i still miss it
plus the game itself was super fun
Fleet Battles gave us official designations and designs for a bunch of old ships from canon that never had any and gave us tons of new designs too
terse lava
Agreed, I am ticked that they didnt keep them around for the sake of having models
I remember r them saying they were planning in adding flood biomass for everyone's vessels
versed helm
mhmm
torpid flare
If you could have one species (besides humans), what would it be and why?
gilded mason
What do you mean by 'have'?
torpid flare
as a companion
gilded mason
Oh. Well, the obvious answer: Sangheili.
terse lava
Indeed
humble yacht
I don’t think Soldiers are a species
versed helm
Arent Soldiers just AI and not actually composed? Or am I mistaken?
gilded mason
Yeah, the former
humble yacht
Pet helioskrill
versed helm
Arent those things Real Big?
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
versed helm
Imagine having a pet unggoy
terse lava
You would need ample supplies of methane
fair hazel
only trace quantities..
sharp adder
There is always giving hen a moth peace that let's then breath oxygen
fair hazel
spark type story and lost in space type story is why im sayind soldier
humble yacht
Whut
terse lava
As in we got with forge's daughter and her crew?
terse lava
Curious if 343 could pull a similar thing with a covenant cast
gilded mason
Enduring Bias decides to go out and visit Sanghelios.
terse lava
I..could actually see that
Has it ever been said how the covenant was able to keep such wonderful records of ancient events?
gilded mason
¯_(ツ)_/¯
humble yacht
What events?
terse lava
Just their history in general. For example, the first part of broken circle was kept as a record by Clarity 3400 years later.
fair hazel
robot friend type
like, how spark was for the crew of the ace of spades
or Robot, Will Robinson's companion from Lost In Space
terse lava
That does sound pretty enjoyable
terse lava
You have an odd hobby
terse lava
Hunting sangheili
gilded mason
The shtick is getting a bit played out.
torpid flare
okay, i have a little tolerance on the sangheili
fair hazel
no roleplaying
terse lava
Kinda funny in a way. The forerunners had eons with ai, even allowing them access to the domain. As far as we know this far, nothing bad came from it until the flood showed up. Meanwhile Cortana goes nuts the first dive in
fair hazel
well cortana's situation was, something before she entred the domain
terse lava
Yea...there are likely servers for halo rp
True Ericky
Still, it appears that being afflicted by the logic plague could be helped when goong into the domain. That was what the librarian was trying to do with the didact
gilded mason
Also, according to Warfleet, connecting to the Domain is what made things like the Guardians to get skulls faces and sapped their empathy.
terse lava
Yea, forerunners tried to correct it but it kept returning to the skull
gilded mason
Ye
terse lava
Wonder if the idea of the domain ever passed down to the covenant
humble yacht
Doesn’t seem to be the case
terse lava
Odd, one would think they would have found out about it
humble yacht
They managed to miss plenty of other things about the forerunners
frozen spire
Are any of the other books like contact: harvest?
gilded mason
In what way?
frozen spire
In the sense that it's more character driven
it's not a deep book but reading them in order all of the others feel only like space adventure romps
except for maybe cole protocol
not that there is anything wrong with space adventure romp
terse lava
Broken circle, Cryptum, Primordium, Smoke and Shadow along with its sequel
versed helm
Mini chief is dead
terse lava
...huh?
gilded mason
I felt Shadow of Intent was also fairly character driven
frozen spire
thanks
I'll have something to look forward to then
Who else did not finish The Flood
feral perch
not me
frozen spire
I think it's easily the worst book
feral perch
you haven't read Glasslands
versed helm
Glasslands is quite good
terse lava
Expanded on what else was happening on the ring
abstract venture
glasslands is decent
noble fjord
Ok so I think it's apparently obvious to anyone who's played the games that the Scarab and Locust weapons are mining tools.
But is it ever gone into detail how truly effective they are as weapons? (Outside of a Scarab being able to shred a UNSC Firebase in a few seconds)
feral perch
I don't like Traviss's characterizations
abstract venture
kilo 5 trilogy gets way too much unnecessary hate imo
versed helm
Yeah, it does.
It's basically the greatest book series ever compared to, like, Legacy of Onyx
Which, to be fair, isn't poorly written so much as just an awful YA premise
terse lava
We have scarab cracking open s forerunner door
noble fjord
Also what's the difference if any between a Sacarb Beam and the Beam the Lich has
That's true Ado
humble yacht
Lich beam is more like an EMP beam
terse lava
Would say firepower, as a lich at the covenant's height was a civilian vehicle
noble fjord
All this talk about Scarab beams brought a 3rd question to my mind... (My apologies)
terse lava
You're fine
noble fjord
In Awakening the Nightmare the Scarab carved out a hole in an energy dome... Why didn't the energy shield just reform?
And it was such a perfectly sliced portion
terse lava
- Plot, 2. It could be due to the monitor no longer. Being around
noble fjord
So there is no good reason?
I was thinking it could be kind of similar to the Plasma Rhino situation from Halo Wars 1
But thats unlikely
terse lava
Well, the covenant version could an improved one
noble fjord
True... Here's a question for thought actually.
In Halo Wars 2 Phoenix logs it is believed the Spirit of Fire destroyed a Covenant Corvette in battle and this is the reason Let'Volir has Enduring Conviction stay a safe distance away.
Honestly could Spirit of Fire cause major damage to a CAS?
noble fjord
(I'm unaware what weapons Spirit would even be carrying considering isn't it's main focus to support a ground assault?)
terse lava
It's a repurposed colony vessel
Was then filled with all kinds of goodies before departing to harvest, thus why it uas such a large cache of materials
noble fjord
And also a Mac Cannon... Because why not strap that.on a colony vehicle
Sometimes I feel Halo is inconsistent at is showing the size of some of their vehicles.
Like obviously the CSO in Halo Reach looked huge
But sometimes the ships size isn't as clear to us, like Spirit of Fire I used to.think was small but NOPE... It's a decent size for a ship
terse lava
3km I think
versed helm
2,500m. Respectable for a UNSC warship.
And the thing to remember about MACs is that they're useful for more than just ship-to-ship combat.
They don't just launch kinetic slugs. They're huge mass drivers, and can be used to launch anything from probes to supply packages to missiles.
But yeah, it didn't have the armaments when it was just a colony ship. Obviously when it was repurposed it was also refit.
terse lava
Makes me wonder how the assault carrier came to be then
Or, and I think Chim will be irritated, why the entirety of the ark defenses didn't t come down on the flood when only a single area was deactivated
versed helm
Forerunner stuff is just
Incomprehensible
Though to be fair the Ark doesn't seem that well defended
terse lava
It sent millions of sentinels to take out a single carrier
versed helm
By crashing into it
I mean, I won't lie, there's definitely momentous power at play there
But if the Forerunners had meant the Ark to be defended they'd probably have installed something that could just knock it out of the sky in a blast. That is, unless some incomprehensible shenanigan is at play.
gilded mason
By crashing into it```
Eurghhow powerful would the pillar of autumn explosion be to destroy alpha halo
versed helm
Pretty darn powerful.
Personally, I think the reason the explosion destroyed it was because the PoA just managed to compromise the ring's power systems
Since the ring was preparing to fire there must've been insane quantities of energy stored up
The PoA was like the pin that popped the balloon
Cortana herself says the PoA's explosion would "cut through several key subsystems" or something to that effect.
gilded mason
Seems like a reasonable explanation to my non-physics-educated self.
torpid flare
it was about 4.7 petatons of tnt
versed helm
👀
torpid flare
compare to the largest nuke ever created, the Tsar Bomba which is about 50 Megatons
terse lava
Although the ring was.not getting ready to fire
versed helm
Where are you getting that from?
Where you getting that from?
Remember Two Betrayals?
terse lava
Yes, and the systems were damaged. There's nothing showing a monitor can activate a ring without a human
versed helm
Cortana and Chief only managed to delay the firing.
The ring was clearly in some kind of ready state.
terse lava
Proof?
versed helm
Cortana's insistence on the course of action that was ultimately undertaken.
gilded mason
Actually, I only remember Cortana being worried Spark would activate the ring without the index, not that he was currently doing so.
versed helm
Same
terse lava
That's because Cortana thought Guilty could activate it, he could not
What Ostral said too
versed helm
The things you're saying don't indicate to me that the ring wasn't prepared to fire in some way.
Unless he found some poor foolish marine and EVEN then he wouldnt have the index
Well, yeah, finding a human is no trouble. The index was.
terse lava
" we need to hurry, before the monitor or his sentinels find a way to activate halo's final weapon, without the index"
versed helm
Exactly, the index was the difficult part
terse lava
Point being, the ring wasn't getting ready to fire
versed helm
Yes, and what I'm proposing is that the ring was in the process of amassing the insane amounts of energy it would require to execute its firing operation and that the thing preventing it from firing was the lack of the index.
terse lava
There nothing showingnit was gathering the needed energy
torpid flare
and i also wonder how powerful the rings are compared to supernovas/hypernovas
versed helm
For one, I don't know how you can conceptualize the ring's destruction without finding some way for the ring to have contributed to its own demise.
terse lava
The POA did so much damage be sure it was like dropping a small star on the ring world surface
It did contribute to it's own downfall thanks to the spinning it was doing
That caused it to tear itself apart
versed helm
The ring is 10,000 kilometers in diameter, made of incredibly-resilient forerunner materials. There is no chance that a human-made fusion reactor caused the damage we see in CE and all successive interpretations.
versed helm
is it?
Yeah, and I'm saying - as usual - that "what happened" needs to be explored further because, to be frank, the lore sucks.
||jk i just wanted to throw in an arby line||
terse lava
The POA became a tiny star on the ring, that carved out a massive crater in the surface. This weakened area caused further damage as the halo kept spinning and tore itself apart due to the stress
versed helm
And yet, there's no reason for the ring to be spinning
We've already established that the forerunners had the capacity to manipulate gravity to an unknowable degree
terse lava
2 ways to look at it
- Good old " it spins for gravity" 2. It spins for gravity, and the day/night cycle without the need to add another device to replicate such a thing
noble fjord
A friend of mine who Id consider to be more well versed in Halo lore said Ripa Moramee was "unnatural" for an elite or something along.those lines
versed helm
I like the 2nd one
terse lava
Remember the halos were made by the builders
noble fjord
Is that true (I'm aware he's pretty big)
terse lava
They would want to save a buck
gilded mason
Ripa isn't really that big, from what I remember
terse lava
They wernt even wanting to add biomes until the lifeworkers intervened
gilded mason
Just on the upper end
versed helm
Hes bigger than Thel from What I remember, hes also a thicc boi
gilded mason
I remember several Sangheili that had some height on him
terse lava
Ripa was tall for a sangheili, but its more he had great strength and was ruthless and loyal enough to work for Regret
limpid kernel
fun fact: marines can hold spartan lasers
versed helm
But do they have more Thiccness Ostral?
gilded mason
He has thiccness in the wrong places. >:(
versed helm
He has thiccness in all of the Right places 😏
terse lava
Ugh
noble fjord
Does the Spartan Laser fire plasma?
Where is the line drawn between laser and plasma in fiction
humble yacht
Same place it’s drawn in science
versed helm
Well, in Halo, plasma weapons fire a blob of superheated plasma encased in a self-sustaining magnetic stabilization field of some kind
The Spartan Laser literally is just a big solid-state laser
noble fjord
Pretty hard hitting Photon beam Sips coffee
gilded mason
Though Frankie says calling the Covenant stuff 'plasma' is a misnomer. (But, really, who can tell with Frankie)
noble fjord
Isn't UNSC plasma like... Really low quality compared to Covenant stuff
versed helm
So I mean, if this form of plasma can stabilize itself into a relatively coherent blob, it ain't plasma as we know it.
And yeah, that's part of the point.
I think some of the Blasters in star wars are actually Plasma and not lasers
gilded mason
He said it wasn't "plasma as we know it", right?
The good news is that the use of the word "Plasma" is a semantic employed by 26th century troops to describe the appearance of the weapons rather than their true scientific attribution. The actual technology is not plasma as we know it, but something far more dangerous, arcane and destructive.
versed helm
The technological disparity between UNSC and Covenant characterized much of the universe's central conflict.
noble fjord
@versed helm indeed a lot of blasters fire plasma not lasers
versed helm
They work like lasers though, don't they?
Somehow
I guessed so since Plasma has more "stopping" power
They're technically particle beams, SW blasters
That comes from gas
A blaster,[1] also called a gun,[2] was any type of ranged weapon that fired bolts of intense plasma energy, often mistaken as lasers. Operating under the same principles as laser weaponry, blasters converted energy-rich gas to a glowing particle beam that could melt through targets.[1]
Yep
Nice
Comes from different qualities of gas
Red gas is low quality
And green is high quality
Alright
Enough SW-talk
Well
What I take away from Frankie's statement
Is that it's probably pretty weird stuff
But I don't see why it can't technically be any substance where there is an ionic charge separation.
noble fjord
Where is the UNSC when it comes to plasma development? Based on things like the Rhino they can obviously make it, but not at any mass scale like the Covenant
versed helm
I guess they just find bullets more reliable
Well, when it comes to plasma, the UNSC's reticence to use it probably extends further than production.
Yeah. I mean the thing about plasma is that, while it has incredibly great stopping power, its muzzle velocity isn't that fast.
So plasma small arms are pretty close-range.
Ye
humble yacht
Until the UNSC can figure out how to encase plasma in its own electromagnetic field that’s not tied to any power source, they’ll be behind on plasma tech
noble fjord
I mean in a universe with more and more shielded enemies, plasma weapons are pretty nice to have
versed helm
For now they rely on bullets
I think by 2558 the UNSC ought to have picked up on some notion of how the Covenant do that tho
Like, sure, during the Covenant war I can buy that it's a mystery
But there's a lot of un-aligned agents and a lot of plasma weapons floating around in the Postwar environment
gilded mason
Like, say, the SoS helpin' them figure it out?
humble yacht
Maybe the UNSC decided to skip plasma stuff and go straight to hard light
terse lava
Not that it did them much good
versed helm
Another route might be to make UNSC weapons a little more advanced.
Make it so that the guns are more "different but equal" whereas the true tech differences manifest in larger scale equipment
noble fjord
Soooo Hardlight > Plasma? (Or is it not that cut and dry)
versed helm
I've floated the idea in the past that many UNSC weapons might passively integrate gravitic tech to account for recoil, recoil brought about by immensely great amounts of muzzle energy
And probably not that cut and dry
But hardlight should be more advanced in principle
Did ancient humanity use Hardlight like the forerunners?
Or did they use plasma
Halopedia says they have "particle rifles"
Which uh, obviously could mean a lot of things
noble fjord
I have a gun rifle
versed helm
I think the takeaway is that they had some kind of directed energy weapon that was competitive to some extent with what the Forerunners had
noble fjord
Covenant plasma doesn't seem to have many problems against forerunner tech.
But that could just be because gameplay
humble yacht
My particle rifle shoots dust particles at 30 m/s
gilded mason
Covies probably found a way to make it competitive, if it would be a problem otherwise.
versed helm
The UNSC use regular-old guns to take down Promethean Knights and Sangheili
So I mean
Halo definitely works off the "a gun is a gun" convention
gilded mason
The UNSC use regular-old guns to take down Promethean Knights
Like the pistol Palmer uses. 😎
terse lava
...shots fired?😆
versed helm
I ain't gonna pretend it's well thought-out
torpid flare
why did the UNSC use bullets
versed helm
Nothing about UNSC firearms has made any sense since Halo 2
gilded mason
Because it works
noble fjord
Alright ignoring the ridiculous weapons like the Halo Arrays. How ridiculous is a Covenant glassing beam in the grand scheme of the Halo universe
terse lava
Not really
versed helm
Honestly, as much as I love it, the MA5 is the greatest offender
The thing ruins everything
I can see why it was dropped in Halo 2
terse lava
snickers
humble yacht
Glassing beam is a pretty inoffensive use of plasma
versed helm
It's such a cool rifle
humble yacht
Constant stream generated from a single source
versed helm
The MA5Bs Mag is also beautiful
But then they chamber it in 7.62 and call it a day
Just like
Why couldn't be spacebullets
Lil flachette bullets
terse lava
Because bungie didnt think things through
noble fjord
Do the Covenant have to debate before glassing similar to us when deciding to use a WMD? (Considering the long term damage it causes to a planet)
terse lava
This reminds me of that rant you had a while back towards me and Ostral, Looter
humble yacht
The covenant were much more liberal with glassing
gilded mason
Do the Covenant have to debate before glassing
Probably in some manner. Don't wanna accidently fry Forerunner relics.
humble yacht
Glassing planets is like salting the earth in the days of Hannibal
terse lava
@noble fjordno, closest they get is if the planet should have a holy symbol grafted into it
versed helm
The debate the Covenant had before glassing was "do we just glass all the humans and call it a day, or invest the time and energy it would take to glass the entire planet?"
"What ecological disasters can we cause with our glassing to expediate the process?"
The covenant doesnt Glass every square inch of a planet as far as im aware, they just Glass Key points that will have a devastating effect on the planets ecosystem, like oceans, forests etc.
terse lava
...they used too😢
gilded mason
"What ecological disasters can we cause with our glassing to expediate the process?"
That prophet was a jerk.
noble fjord
Ah so legit they were like
"No holy relic on here? Fire away!"
gilded mason
Glad Tam did the deed.
terse lava
Indeed, hated that vice minister
versed helm
And using orbital firepower is the most efficient way to make that happen
noble fjord
How does glassing an ocean even work? Does it glass the sea floor and disintegrate all the water?
versed helm
If your firepower isn't restricted by, y'know, relics, a need for intel or copious ground defences.
humble yacht
Vaporizes water
versed helm
It boils it causing it to vaporize
Most of the time, when a planet is glassed, it is not entirely glassed.
Yep
Just all the bits that humans lived.
It would Take way too long to Glass the whole planet
humble yacht
Think of all the salt left behind if you vaporize an ocean
terse lava
True
versed helm
So they probably wouldn't bother with the oceans, mostly. That said, when you do pour that much energy into a planet, it can cause cascading ecological collapse.
I think.
So you could have a nuclear winter type scenario
Like we see on Harvest in HW
noble fjord
Indiscriminate use of plasma...
versed helm
The covenant currency is salt
noble fjord
Every time I look at a glassing beam I wonder the sheer amount of plasma that consumes
Answer - a bit
versed helm
I just think "thats cool!"
terse lava
"Cleansing flame"
humble yacht
So that's how the covenent keep the war machine going..they trade.in salt
In the Covenant, no steak goes unseasoned
versed helm
Elites are great chefs
When a Covenant ship glasses it's basically converting 100% of the output of its reactor into energy.
terse lava
Need pepper to Chim
noble fjord
Ok so in the Halo Wars games we see different types of "orbital beam attacks" is that just gameplay or in actuality can a glassing beam be "customized" (for lack of a better term)
versed helm
Salt pepper and everglades
terse lava
Not 100%, shields stay up
terse lava
HERESY
versed helm
U need pepper
@terse lava Alright
What source tho
PEPPER IS A MUST BOI!!!!!!
I think it would probably be really good world building if the shields did go down
noble fjord
BRB let's glass an opposing ship •<•
versed helm
Because that creates more of a precedent for needing to clear ground defences before glassing can occur
noble fjord
Let's see what your shields do then
versed helm
Which I think is a good precedent to set
terse lava
Believe either fall of reach or first strike, where it's commented the shields drop around the area the plasma would be coming out. Shields would stay active around the rest of the vessel
noble fjord
Shields cannot stop MAC rounds correct? If yes (how)
terse lava
Would be pretty bad if you had to drop your shields just to fire a.weapon
versed helm
The thing is, Ado, an excavation beam is more than just a weapon
Its a cleansing flame
It's a channelling of an enormous amount of energy
Sufficient to level cities
There should be rules associated with the use of such a weapon
terse lava
Should be yes, but not necessarily
noble fjord
Imagine if just one of the people in charge of the beam when excavating the portal on Earth were to let it go for too long and end up damaging the ship
Yikes
terse lava
No just turrets
noble fjord
Doesn't the CPV have a glassing beam?
versed helm
They're powerful but there's no reason something designed to stop kinetic attacks wouldn't stop them
terse lava
It does
terse lava
The CPV destroyers are just a floating glassing beam
versed helm
Flying at several kilometers per second
That's a MAC round
Destroyers are pretty cool
noble fjord
That seems to destroy the idea of a destroyer I had in my mind from years of naval study...
Considering destroyers are usually small, mobile, and strapped with an unnecessarily excessive amount of firepower...
Not just a glassing beam and some defense cannons
versed helm
Nah they're pretty well armed
One Infernus-pattern superheavy excavation beam[1][2]
Two Aljordan-pattern plasma beam emitters[1]
Twenty four Melusean-pattern plasma cannons[1][2][3]
Six Jaet-pattern plasma torpedo silos[1]
Twenty Gon-pattern pulse laser turrets[1][2]
Forty Carnax Et-pattern plasma bombardment mortars[1]```._. I retract my previous statement
terse lava
The covenant destroyers are pretty much crewed by covenant proven to be unstable, unreliable or without honor too
versed helm
They are, it should be noted, designed with attacking ground targets in mind
terse lava
Yep
versed helm
Why's that?
But they're still potent attack vessels and relatively small by Covenant ship standards
noble fjord
thats a decent amount of fire power for such a "small" vesael
I mean in Halo Wars it's shown ones what slightly shorter than Spirit of Fire?
terse lava
Yea
There are however
Smaller destroyers
That would fit in a classic "destroyer" vessel idea
noble fjord
I have been reminded of a question I had for you guys
terse lava
Hm?
versed helm
But why were CPVs given to unstable covies?
Because the Covenant was, actually, a little remorseful about the whole genocide thing
Or rather
They found it distasteful
gilded mason
Because most other Covenant ships were general purpose. destroyers could only be used for battle, which they thought was unseemly
terse lava
Because it was seen as a way to keep them useful. Glassing was seen as work with little ho or involved
That too ^
noble fjord
In a debate between a massive group of nerds in my school, we were fighting over if the Galactic Republic could out fight the Covenant.
And the main point they had was the fighters a Venator could deploy would be the biggest advantage because Covenant ships aren't great at hitting small fast targets...
Uhhhhhhhhhh I wanted to see the Halo community's opinion in the matter
terse lava
Uh...
noble fjord
I love both equally so I held no opinion
versed helm
Also I wouldn't be surprised if there's a certain amount of risk-analysis involved in how a CPV crew is formed
It would be probably a little bit dangerous
terse lava
Covenant vessels can hit small targets easily when plot stays out
versed helm
Or rather, more dangerous than being in a more general-purpose ship
Not only that but covie ships are more powerful
Covenant vessels can hit small targets when it's not anime
Or Halo Reach
terse lava
I did say without plot
versed helm
There are plenty of instances in plot of Covenant ships being deadly to anything and everything
The one offensive time they couldn't handle a small vessel that I can think of was The Package
noble fjord
I find Star Wars vs Halo confusing because the Covenant ship durability is absurd... But legit everything in the Galactic Empire/Republic/CIS fires either plasma or ion lasers . _ .
versed helm
And that's because The Package is a canonical nightmare
@noble fjord Honestly, the notion of universe vs universe on some kind of objective basis is real dumb
First off
thin patrol
Star Wars vs. Halo? I never thought this day would come.
versed helm
There's no real point to it as an exercise for fun because it like, only creates salt
And second
The nature of fiction is to be inconsistent
noble fjord
Dude I have friends in both universes so I hear it every day
versed helm
Forerunners could Colonize the Star Wars galaxy
thin patrol
I mean, I like both the Star Wars saga and the Halo franchise
versed helm
I promise you that the vast majority of calculations that are taken as gospel in places like the Space Battles forums are canonical nonsense
It's a fool's errand to apply that kind of logic to expansive fictional universes
thin patrol
Both universes are like the best fiction known to man
versed helm
With as much technical inconsistency is there is in Star Wars and Halo
terse lava
Lets... avoid going down the vs debate road
thin patrol
We're not debating
terse lava
Didnt say you were
versed helm
We should just accept that the Forerunners could Colonize the Star Wars galaxy
thin patrol
It didn't look like we were about to debate either
versed helm
Like here's the thing
terse lava
shrug guess I misread
versed helm
One of the calcs from Halo people love to throw around is the SMAC velocity given in TFoR
Firing a 3,000-ton slug at, basically, 4% of lightspeed.
And yet
In Warfleet, you have the Cairo's MAC which fires at "several kilometers per second".
thin patrol
I'm not one of those people that would say who would win between the two
versed helm
The reason for that is that early on (as in, before Halo 2), Halo was a universe in which ground combat only ever occurred on the Covenant's terms.
Space warfare dominated the rest of the universe
thin patrol
Even though both franchises could destroy any other video game series/saga
noble fjord
Does the Cairo's MAC gun ever get upgraded between Halo 2 - Halo 5?
versed helm
And the only time you fought on the ground was when you couldn't fight in orbit and the Covenant wanted something on the ground
But in Halo 2
Bungie brought the universe's spaceship power-scaling more in-line with conventional Star Wars-esque space battles
noble fjord
What even is the progression for MAC weapons... How far can you upgrade "Make solid hunk of metal go fast"
versed helm
Because doing it Nylund's way is too restrictive for storytelling
That's why when the Covenant assault the Cairo's battlecluster
thin patrol
Anyways boys I got to go
noble fjord
(And I understand that's a gross oversimplification)
thin patrol
Good night to you guys
versed helm
Only Cairo's battlecluster engages in the battle
Because the other clusters aren't powerful enough to effectively engage a target from one cluster to the other
It's outside their effective range, which is dictated in space combat by the time the enemy has to react and the means at their disposal to do so
So you have these two clearly separate conceptualizations with radically different scaling competing
And versus forums don't take any of that into account or even realize it because they're so obsessed with hunting down numbers
noble fjord
Looter I sense you've been trying to get that out of your system for a while
versed helm
Just making a very intense sort of point
noble fjord
Let's shift that brain towards the topic of the ol MAC guns
versed helm
Well, I guess you upgrade MAC guns with more powerful coils, better recoil absorbing technologies and more sophisticated ammunition.
noble fjord
But not much you can do outside of the basic concept of a MAC gun.
Can't get too fancy
versed helm
It's a pretty simple concept
Big mass driver
Stick a thing in the mass driver
It'll make it go fast
The choice of what you put in the mass driver is yours, as long as it's magnetic
There are linear things you can do to improve the mass driver but nothing which will radically change its nature
noble fjord
Alright so one thing I have a minor "problem" with in Halo 4.
The guns the Infinity Fires at the Mantle's Approach are indeed her MAC guns correct?
noble fjord
Why does it look like more of a beam as opposed to a projectile . _ .
noble fjord
Well that's just fun - _ -
versed helm
Mhm.
If you really want an explanation
Maybe it was firing a round with a thrust mechanism
A guided round
And the beam was its thrust trail
Because it was going so fast
noble fjord
Well I try to find ways to bypass "Artistic Liberty"
An example is the MAC rounds in Halo Wars 1, they look like massive balls of fire and I just went "well since it's entering the atmosphere it's gonna look that way"
versed helm
Yeah. Sure.
Some things just won't ever add up though.
But you can't get down on that
Because inconsistency is one of fiction's most common traits
Every universe the scale of Halo has its problems
versed helm
What do you mean specifically?
terse lava
Guessing the Enduring Conviction been shown as a ccs cruiser?
noble fjord
^
versed helm
Yikes
noble fjord
I think the widely accepted idea is "oh they just had a CCS as well as the Enduring Conviction and the CCS just somehow lost a 1v1 against Spirit of Fire
and got destroyed at the exact same point"
terse lava
Yea just a visual error nothing more
noble fjord
Hey I give 343 some pretty decent credit for making HW2 probably their best game in terms of story so far between Halo 4,5, and Wars
so I try to ignore the very obvious holes in plot... but mostly can't
versed helm
Coming up with explanations is fine
But mistakes should be treated as mistakes
Most of the time anyway
Obviously only Sith deal in absolutes
noble fjord
Me still wondering why they didn't just bring the Conviction into close quarters combat with the Spirit... as opposed to relying on Banshees
The Plot waving at me in the background
versed helm
Probably because Atriox didn't want to destroy the Spirit
Just like how he didn't kill the Spartans
noble fjord
Actually I just reminded myself of yet another thing in Halo that seems really inconsistent
the Enduring Conviction was sending regular banshees at the Spirit
But in Halo Reach we were "Introduced" to the much faster space banshee
(which is visually different)
versed helm
I noticed that earlier today, ironically enough
I don't know if space banshees are supposed to be faster in a significant capacity
But they are up-gunned
noble fjord
Like the inconsistency just grows the closer you look
Like why do some Vehicles just seem to disappear without a trace from the Halo Universe
Vampire
Seraph
Cobra
Hawk
versed helm
I don't think normal banshees are incapable of operating in space, just sub-optimal
In those instances
They are still being used
Games just tend to give you a limited slice of events
If you're still around later I can explain some things a bit better
But I gotta blast rn
noble fjord
Alright, enjoy what ever you're about to go do
remote spruce
Hawk is gone because uhh, the some of the parts weren't reliable
yea i rather no explanation than some weird "well it's outdated now bye"
noble fjord
UNSC air Vehicles have a hard time lasting more than 1 game
Like the Falcon is a technical 1 off
The wasp is a one off
The Sabre is a one off
The Hawk is a one off
Wait... I need someone's brain
Broadsword vs Sabre
@gilded mason . _ . you're smart, I need the assistance
gilded mason
I don't really care too much for weapon comparisons for the most part, especially UNSC systems. 😋
noble fjord
Dang
but I was wondering which ship was overall more advanced, granted I think the Sabre was more for defense
terse lava
Heh
Looter does tend to be the library of knowledge when it comes to human stuff in halo
versed helm
So there’s only two hyperlethal spartans as of now?
versed helm
So the planet that the Primordial was imprisoned on,how did Yprin and her team find it?
versed helm
Also,what do we know about this planet?
noble fjord
Do the Swords of Sanghelios have a Silent Shadow team?
gilded mason
Do the Swords of Sanghelios have a Silent Shadow team?```
Unknown. But it might have a different name if they do.The only team I honestly know of that's "Active" is under Banished leadership as of right now
. _ .
versed helm
So what makes the Chief and Six special from the bunch now aside from chiefs luck?
gilded mason
So what makes the Chief and Six special from the bunch now aside from chiefs luck?```
NothingMain Characters in the story gives them more plot cred
terse lava
Nothing
versed helm
Well that’s kinda sad
gilded mason
Not really
versed helm
I guess Six was nothing after all 😔
Wasn't the planetoid that the Primordial was imprisoned on described as being damaged?
noble fjord
Tbh I can never decide if the strength of Spartans in game is underplayed or if Chief is over hyped by the game itself
I was going to say "or if the covenant's nerfed in game" but I think we can agree that plasma weapons in game are nerfed to high heck
gilded mason
I mean, he delivered (part of) Cortana. That was pretty important.
terse lava
Wouldn't say fully nothing, he did save humanity
versed helm
Prior to that I mean.
terse lava
@versed helmdont think so but I dont fully remember
versed helm
If all Spartans are hyperlethal he could’ve easily been replaced multiple times
In the past
terse lava
As can chief
versed helm
But chief has luck...
noble fjord
Chief has gags "Luck"
gilded mason
That's plot armor
noble fjord
whatever that bs is
noble fjord
I mean he's one of the only remaining Spartan-II's so he's pretty special among the IV's in a sense
actually how many II's are left?
terse lava
Look at it like this, N6 was the player, so you get to make his backstory
Cant do that with chief
versed helm
But you have 500 hyperlethal Spartans compared to one lucky spartan
So is he really?
gilded mason
actually how many II's are left?
Blue Team
Red Team
Gray Team
Some amount of Omega Team
Naomi
versed helm
We don’t know about the other half of Omega as of now
terse lava
Rip black team
noble fjord
I hear the story where black team died was a mess
terse lava
....yea
noble fjord
on a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst
versed helm
I still don’t get why it had to be black team 😔
Is it possible that Forthencho's imprint is still out there somewhere?
noble fjord
Better Black than Red team . _ .
versed helm
It could’ve been some SIV team but NEIN
terse lava
Should have had sangheili around, would gave helped
versed helm
The didactic would’ve had him for lunch
terse lava
@versed helma copy sure, but not the one that went with Chakas
versed helm
What about Yprin's imprint?
terse lava
Same answer
noble fjord
ngl I love Halo I really do
But the games should wrap up Master Chiefs story line at some point in the nearish future...
Idc if they kill him or have him go on vacation or something... I've had Master Chief in my life since 2001, now he feels like a relative that wont go away
gilded mason
Indeed
noble fjord
We have plenty of other fairly charismatic spartans and Elites to focus on
gilded mason
I'd rather we move to game-to-game protagonists
That way we aren't pigeon-holed to a single "main" character for years upon years
versed helm
I mean he is the face of Halo and Xbox even, only reason why I could see them replacing chief is if Steve retires, and if that happens then I’d like to see Jerome be the main guy
gilded mason
and if that happens then I’d like to see Jerome be the main guy
Not another SII
versed helm
Locke maybe?
terse lava
"We trade one boring guy for another"
gilded mason
Way too derivative
Locke maybe?
Nah, unless they change his character up, he's too flat for me
versed helm
Maybe boring to you Ado.
noble fjord
Jerome is fine as a once per game protag
Halo Wars 2 did a great job scratching the Itch I had for Red Team
for now at least
gilded mason
And anyway, as I said, no main protagonist please. Too limiting
remote spruce
too late : (
versed helm
I wish they bring back Fireteam Majestic because we never see them in H5,not even a mention
They can always have spin offs...
noble fjord
I kind of wish the Halo Games would take off the gloves they put on the covenant and plasma...
but at the same time
no
versed helm
There can be both Main line games and spin offs with different protagonists
noble fjord
It isn't a case of there not having spin offs
but halo is now 19 years old and the same dude has been in the spotlight for almost all 19 of those years . _ .
versed helm
Maybe a game set during the Imterplanetary Wars
noble fjord
I think Mister Chef is the longest surviving main character in video games (in terms of how many games he is present in combined with sheer time he's existed)
like not his age but he's been around 19 years! Kill him please!
versed helm
Why? Just because he’s been around for so long?
noble fjord
- Because he's been around for way too long
- The constant focus on him limits story telling to only focus on HIM
- There is plenty of other characters that could see some spotlight but it gets taken by HIM
- The Spin-Off games don't come out frequently enough to make any of the previous statements justifiable
gilded mason
Agreed
versed helm
How would a Halo game set during the Interplanetary Wars work?
They can always take a break of the main line games and focus on other characters with different settings
remote spruce
i'm starting to realize i prefer more separate things than closely connected
versed helm
Like ostral suggested in a sense
noble fjord
Yeah but if after 19 years and 14 games (Including Spartan Assault and Fireteam Rave) and with half of them focusing on Chief . _ .
The old man is losing his charm in my eyes
versed helm
Don’t ya think this would create an eternal cycle with Halo that way? New guy gets introduced, becomes the face of Halo for 14 years, KILL HIM, and vice versa, I think they should just take a break from main line games instead.
And release games with different settings and characters
Heck maybe even give those their own sequels
noble fjord
We're not asking to introduce a new guy that's the whole point
we're asking to at most focus on 1 guy per game and not stick to a character for 14 years
versed helm
So... what I just typed?
noble fjord
No you are saying "introduce a new face and have him stick for 14 years to die" we're saying, just completely detach from having 1 face of a franchise who's story is extremely expansive outside of that one guys actions
gilded mason
He's just sayin' that he and I had been saying we wanted that, not a cycle thing, since it sounded like you thought that at first.
noble fjord
I will admit, Halo 1-3's stories are VERY important, but after a while Chief is gonna get boring (he's already boring to me)
versed helm
Yeah I understand, but I literally just typed they should take a break from main line and focuse on different characters and settings, I’m sorry for the confusion I guess, sometimes I can’t really express my point right away which is something I have to work on
I typed they should take a break and focus on different characters and settings, it really seemed to me like you just read the first half...
noble fjord
Nope I read the whole thing, but they shouldn't "take a break" they honestly should separate from the singular character focus while still focusing on the main story
Reach was a Main Line game but we haven't had Noble 6 haunting us for years (because he's dead)
versed helm
I personally think they should just take a break from main line, I respect your opinion but I still think they should have a main line title after a while.
noble fjord
... I just said they don't have to cut away from the main storyline... I'm just saying stop focusing on only one person in the ridiculously absurd and expansive line that is the main story
versed helm
That’s... what I meant by main line title, have the main line titles focus on master chief or some other guy and other title with different characters and settings
But take a break from said main title
Focus on other settings for a while
noble fjord
The issue isn't that Chief is a part of the story, the problem is that as the games progress it feels more and more like the games revolve around Chief as opposed to having some focus that could be more interacted with.
Halo 1-3 focused on the frontline main fight in the Human Covenant War's end
But Halo 4 and 5 feel like they revolve around chief as opposed to revolve around an outside major factor...
Focusing on 1 guy for too long can cause issues in story telling in the future
versed helm
Which is why I think they should take a break from that for a while
Have some time to focus on other stories, settings characters etc
And after a BIG while have a main line title with chief again
Or whoever replaces him idk
noble fjord
There is just so much Halo Universe that hasn't been touched by the games and it's honestly disappointing...
versed helm
Which is why I like the idea of having other games focusing on said sides of the halo universe
noble fjord
part of my annoyance with chief honestly is the fact that after 19 years with the old man I feel there is characters with limited/no screen time in games with more personality and appeal than the big brick
versed helm
I wanna see more of the Human-Forerunner wars
Ok that’s fine, we could have a big while focusing on other stories, I would personally love a Johnson game myself.
I just don’t see the need to get rid of him or completely ditch having main line titles focusing on one guy the whole way, we can just take a break from that and focus on other stories and settings in the meantime.
noble fjord
Because as time goes by in the halo games, the games focus less on the franchise and more on the individual which is just... not good for storytelling in a long run. Especially when the one individual is nothing more than a single piece of a much larger whole that would get neglected as a result
versed helm
Like a video game adaptation of Contact Harvest?
noble fjord
if the entire MCU focused on Iron Man alone it would be terrible, the same thing is true for Halo, if it starts being more a story of his (regardless of a break between) as opposed to a story about the whole, then it becomes bad writing
versed helm
Ok I’m saying we should take a break from that but not completely ditch that.
noble fjord
Taking a break doesn't take away the problem it just puts a minor gap in the way
versed helm
So what would having different stories with no main line title be? Would they all collide in one title after a while like the MCU is what you’re suggesting?
noble fjord
I don't think you're understanding.
The game can have master chief as the player character, the story just shouldn't revolve around him.
versed helm
I don’t think you’re understanding me either tbh, I’m saying the main titles should focus on HIM and have different titles focusing on other characters and making those games revolve around them.
Kinda what the MCU does in a sense... kinda
noble fjord
I'm understanding that clearly, but focusing a massively expansive universe on one individual is just bad storytelling.
The MCU does not focus on one sole character, it focuses on the universe as a whole.
Halo games are starting to focus on the individual, not the universe as a whole, which is the issue.
and characters that are focused on for too long have an ending arch, which Chief should just get.
versed helm
Ok, so you’d prefer a Halo 3 type of story telling, and not a more personal type of story telling like Halo 4? Because by that point you’d still be playing as chief, which is something I thought you were getting bored of.
noble fjord
yes
versed helm
But you would still be playing as Chief
Which is something I thought you were getting bored of
noble fjord
Halo 1 - 3 story telling is fine
Yes playing as chief get's boring but they can shift player character on occasion (albeit make it more consistent)
but ever since halo 4 (and I doubt infinite will change this trend) it's been Chief centered as opposed to universe centered
versed helm
So kinda like H2 with arby and Chief?
noble fjord
I wouldn't hate chief as much if his impact on the last 2 games he's been in wasn't so gross
versed helm
Where you see two different perspectives?
Id be down for that
So long as it’s spread evenly
And not like halo 5
noble fjord
Personal story telling isn't bad... just don't drag it on like jesus cripes
I'm tired, I need sleep
goodnight
versed helm
Goodnight boi
sharp adder
mabey focus on a squad of mares or mabey a chrcter from the spirit of fire becase they culd be in infinte
carmine sleet
Mares?
versed helm
Maybe he meant marines? Idk tbh
fair hazel
carmine sleet
If they meant mares, that would be an interesting game to say the least
carmine sleet
They've got turrets mounted on their backs with AI controlling where they fire
versed helm
What kind of armor would they use tho?
carmine sleet
Horse armour. What else would they wear?
versed helm
Idk I imagined something funny like Forerunner armored Horses with turrets mounted on their backs
sharp adder
That would be awesome and I ment marines
jade axle
horses in minecraft halo mashup horse armour with AI-controlled splinter turrets on their back
carmine sleet
I was thinking more along the lines of miniguns
jade axle
horses in minecraft halo mashup horse armour with AI-controlled chaingun turrets on their back
safe siren
I'd see those with an increased modding scene
terse lava
Has it ever been said why the covenant had a taboo on advancing their tech to forerunner levels?
sharp adder
Because they could not accesse. It properly
terse lava
Hm, I doubt that's the sole reason. We see forerunner relics used in covenant technology and other times covenant tech could be upgraded yet they chose not to due to it becoming to close to forerunner effectiveness