Heh
#lore-and-universe
terse lava
stoic hamlet
@astral dust on the Spartan V Elite thing not hard for a Spartan at all.
There’s a few examples of Elites holding their own but they’re extreme outliers.
terse lava
Heresy made him weak
terse lava
I wonder the last time sangheili had old fashioned ballistic weapons
topaz iron
Ancient slingshots
astral dust
So, do all the Spartans from the kidnapped programs think of Halsey as a mother? Or no?
Also, is Jorge from Reach her biological son?
gilded mason
Also, is Jorge from Reach her biological son?
No, she only has a daughter
Jorge said "ma'am" in the scene, not "mom".
astral dust
Gotcha.
What about “Been all hers, half my life”?
gilded mason
Because she was like a mother to many of the SIIs.
astral dust
Gotcha. So Jorge is a SII.
gilded mason
Yes.
astral dust
And the rest of Noble are III right?
gilded mason
Yup
gilded mason
Nah.
S3s are also about the same, if they also wear mjolnir
And S4s' GEN2 armor makes up for their augments.
astral dust
S4 have less training too right because they volunteered as adults?
gilded mason
Not the same type of training, yes.
astral dust
Okay, understood
I do like the S4G2 armor, but it is hard to beat Reach customization. 😂
Reading “The Fall of Reach”, that’s why so many questions
gilded mason
Ah
astral dust
New to the book side of Halo. Read a lot off the fandom, but that isn’t always reliable.
gilded mason
lol
terse lava
Halopedianis definitely the most reliable one out there
astral dust
I see, well I will definitely start using that more now
inner basin
A few people who chat in here are Halopedians editing the articles, I believe 2eezy said he was one. I myself just enjoy reading the articles and refreshing my memory
astral dust
I love reading Halo Lore so its good for me😁. I just bought The fall of Reach and Contact Harvest to get into the book side of Halo to actually learn the lore more
inner basin
Glad to hear it! I love when more people get invested in the lore. It means this channel is more viable to those people. It also means we get more ideas posted in here and generally a greater overall interest than before.
astral dust
Absolutely!
Now my main problem is choosing what side I like more 😂. Don’t mind my name, it’s biased🤣 I do like those fancy Zealots the covenant has
inner basin
...But the UNSC has Headhunters and ODSTs... Also Spartan-IIIs are pretty neat too...
Also Spartans are typically superior to Elites in combat... That’s all I’m saying
^ Actually that’s a lie... I have one more thing to add. It took the Covenant 7 Cruisers in orbit to essentially demolish Beta Company, but even then, two still survived, the mission was accomplished, and it’s possible that the refinery killed survivors from the cruiser’s bombardment (so the Covenant may’ve not even been rewarded for a number of the deaths)
astral dust
Welp. There goes that, I’m sold.
gilded mason
Counterpoint: Elites are cute
astral dust
You know what ISNT cute. High taxed Moa milk
That stuff has been taking my credits forever
gilded mason
A cause we can all get behind
inner basin
Ostral, I don’t think that counterpoint was very strong for a big Elite advocate lol
astral dust
Haha 😂
gilded mason
I really don't feel like makin' big arguments.
So I just cut straight to the heart of things
inner basin
Fair enough I guess
inner basin
Yikes 😱
gilded mason
And remember what that one Elite said:
"Jaws are not the only thing we have four of. tap tap"
astral dust
Ohh you 👋
gilded mason
lol
astral dust
You know what they say.
Roses are red
Violets are Blue
Emile is ready
How bout’ you?
Now I shall proceed to roast my main man.
You could say Emile forgot to watch his Six... da da
inner basin
He has issues...
astral dust
I miss Emile..
inner basin
I still don’t know how he didn’t see that Elite coming... I mean Spartans have a radar for something
inner basin
lol
astral dust
I remember when people thought the Zealot we met in Reach followed us throughout the Reach Story..killing Noble etc., I love those theory videos
Same with Zaku or Zako.. can’t remember
inner basin
Well people refer to that Elite (in Reach) more as a Field Marshall than a Zealot as that narrows it down a bit
astral dust
Okay, gotcha
inner basin
You’re thinking of Zoro who follows us in CE, but dies in the end, a horrible death
astral dust
Yes! That’s him.. I miss him too
inner basin
Never mind it’s not Zoro, I can’t remember his name
gilded mason
Zuka
astral dust
Didn’t he die in the explosion of the ship?
astral dust
You could say his name was BA-Zu—-oh
inner basin
Not a good crossover imo
I’d prefer the flood
They’re enriched lore, and how long they’ve been around, the ego the Gravemind in H2/H3 adopted far outweighs anything else to replace them
astral dust
What are the “Unclean” ones referred by the Hierarchs? “It is known the Kig-Yar ship Pitiless has brought forth an Unclean Being's corpse. “
gilded mason
Which book?
inner basin
I’d imagine it’s a flood infected corpse
astral dust
It is from Halopedia but “Twenty-Ninth Age of Doubt
"It is known the Kig-Yar ship Pitiless has brought forth an Unclean Being's corpse. Hear now, all Kig-Yar vessels are to be searched. Let faithful Sangheili lead teams of Unggoy to all Kig-Yar ships and seek further evidence of the Unclean. It is done."
— High Prophet of Restraint
astral dust
Well I never knew the Prophets made and had their own laws..
inner basin
Prophet of Truth is deceitful, Prophet of Mercy shows no mercy, Prophet of Regret doesn’t sound regretful when being killed
Sounds about right
astral dust
Prophet of Restraint. Yeah he led with Prophets Tolerance and Prophetess Obligation
Never knew female prophets
Worse thing to happen to the covenant was the Jiralhanae and Chief.
inner basin
^ Yeah he essentially held a gun to the head of the Covenant
astral dust
Welp. I need to read more
gilded mason
Stuff
astral dust
Adult fun time
inner basin
Yeah, but also merely used as canon fodder due to how fast they can reproduce
Before their uprising, they were not treated well
astral dust
True^
inner basin
But after they proved themselves they would serve alongside the other species as near enough equals (but obviously not)
stoic hamlet
They’re good bois
astral dust
The Covenant Law even says “Sangheili and San'Shyuum are first class citizens above all other species.”
gilded mason
Also that Unclean Being thing from earlier
I looked up the context, and yeah, talkin' about humans
inner basin
That’s what drove the Grunt rebellion, Donk
It was because of how the Kig-Yar were treating them (more so than the Elites)
astral dust
Grunts don’t have high morale too. Which make them seen worse
astral dust
Warhammer 40k Astarte
astral dust
Astartes are over 9ft tall and have enhanced mutations. But I can’t remember all of it, 40k was a long time ago
gilded mason
Ackchually it's about 40000 years in the future
astral dust
I meant in my life 😂 Ost
gilded mason
lol
gilded mason
he ded
gilded mason
Let's not do that silly thing
gilded mason
Plasma+Wave = shoot everything forever
astral dust
The man, the myth the lagoon
inner basin
...And Doom Guy
gilded mason
Samus would win
astral dust
Plus you have Comm Shepard.
inner basin
I don’t think she would, Ostral
astral dust
Flipping KRATOS
gilded mason
She definitely would. She best
inner basin
Idk
astral dust
Oh yeah... name one
inner basin
I mean Doom Guy went through hell
gilded mason
Hell's overrated. 😋
astral dust
Frieza survived a Planet exploding TWICE
Nope
Thought we were just saying dumb characters
gilded mason
Ye
golden belfry
Samus would obliterate almost everything in the halo universe
astral dust
Holy moly where are all these Samus shills coming from 😂
golden belfry
the only 2 chrarcters I can think of that would actually kill her are doom guy and kirby
and we're not shills, youre just objectively wrong
astral dust
Nope you both work for Nintendo
Nice try
Anyway. Back to Halo lore. Is Ultra Honor guard the highest Elite rank
golden belfry
Plasma would be the closest thing that could damage her reliably
gilded mason
Anyway. Back to Halo lore. Is Ultra Honor guard the highest Elite rank```
I guess for Honor Guards, suredepending on her suit ballistics would vary
eh, remember some of the boss weapons she fights against
spartan laser would be comparable to metroid primes laser or motherbrains super laser
and she can survive a fair few of those hits
gilded mason
@versed helm
No idea
golden belfry
How many sank shells till they die?
Remember that halo tanks use pretty pathetic ww2 shells
so you could do the math based on that
a guy did a video on it
lemme find it
Well its more size of the shell, the fact theyre powdered munitions and its mentioned in lore that they only have a 90mm cannon
90mm is a joke against todays tanks, let alone 500 years in the future
heres the video
he does a few
thats on the grizzly
this is on the wraith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU_VV6xGbjo
and this is a general one
I think he recoveres the Scorpion in this last video
and thats where he mentions the shells iirc
inner basin
Phantoms aren’t unbreakable except in WZ itself, we destroy them in Long Night of Solace, in H3 with 4 tank shells, and in Halo 4 with a Mantis... I could go on, but those are at the top of my head
golden belfry
is the 4 tank shells in 3 vs the engines or the armour?
inner basin
Think it’s the armour I believe. I haven’t played that mission in a while. It’s “The Ark” if you want to check it out on YT
golden belfry
I know which mission it is 😉
inner basin
I mean I could be completely wrong, but that’s at the top of my head
fair hazel
90mm is shell. We don’t know the velocity of it though
golden belfry
In the video the guy calculates it
Apparently its 5x slower than current tank shell velocities
fair hazel
Game play == canon
golden belfry
Yeah, but until canon states otherwise gamplay = canon
fair hazel
No
That’s not how that works
Gameplay and stuff can help us sort of think about canon but that’s not a 1;1
golden belfry
I disagree.
When you have no existing information or extra lore context for a media and you only have the property itself then all you can do is judge the property off what you are provided.
Then afterwards the more lore and context you add to a property then the meaning and interactions within the original property change.
Thats why every multimedia franchise has differing levels of cannonivity.
Yes, I am aware that in terms of halo's story the games events are canon what we see and experience are very much not, BUT, when you have a consistent representation of something within that experience then you can generally make a rule that unless something in the 'higher' levels of more accurate lore says otherwise, then what you see is accurate (in this case give or take for game balance) to what the canon interactions are
There is no lore that says "hey the scorpion shoots a shell 10 billion mph" and there is nothing in the lore that contradicts what what we see in the games
so therefore we can make an educated guess that the scorpion we see and use in the games is generally canonically accurate to the scorpion in the lore
this is all subject to change ofc as more lore is created, but so far theres nothing about this niche
fair hazel
You saying multimedia franchise has differing levels of canonicity makes it seem like you don’t know how the halo canon works very well.
Scorpion tank velocity is inconsistent in all@games anyways so that would render it already moot if we followed by the frame of thinking , which is false.
So even if you were right. It’d already have contradictions and wouldn’t be usable anyways.
But you’re not right on that anyways. Gameplay == canon.
==
=/=
versed helm
In all fairness, because Halo doesn't have those levels of canonicity, it can be a real clusterfrag sometimes.
I'm quite fond of saying Halo has no canon, only lore.
fair hazel
I gladly take it over tired canons
The stories in halo too aren’t just. Liscencing for just more money and merchandising
But they’re meaningful additions to the universe. Exploring these stories.
astral dust
Books are canon though right?
versed helm
Everything is, equally. More or less.
Personally I'm of the opinion that when you're managing a fictional universe that's contributed to by so many authors, occasionally you need to trim the fat and rework certain concepts, and be clear when you're actually doing it.
And the lack of that is one of Halo's weaknesses.
fair hazel
Sure. There’s moments when there will be some ncessessdu fefcons. @
But if you can avoid the retcons, or nothing too big. Good.
versed helm
My gripes are usually technical stuff, which is different to story stuff.
So I'm quite open to retcons and exclusionary clarifications, mostly.
But I can see why retcons may be unappealing.
Every bit is someone's favourite bit, right?
astral dust
Retcons can ruin organic story. WH 40k knows that part hard... but they’ve been around for almost 40 years
golden belfry
nope
versed helm
The filter is
golden belfry
fml, i hate the strict bot on this server so much lol
versed helm
It's somethin' else.
golden belfry
it's takin some getting used too
versed helm
There are other servers which dabble in Halo lore if you prefer to be free of these restrictions.
But this is the most immediate and varied environment
obsidian thistle
Well gameplay isnt canon. Halo: The Flood kinda dictates mostly the canon way to play CEA. Sure there is stuff that is impossible (that adds to my point) but stuff like "John" not taking a Covie weapon in the first mission kinda says a lot. ;)
golden belfry
ill basically condense what i wrote anyway
astral dust
Don’t talk about ⭐️ wars. Bot will execute you
golden belfry
That seems... overkill
versed helm
That's because it is.
carmine sleet
A small price to pay for salvation from spoilers
versed helm
Btw, I've become less fond of the notion "gameplay =/= canon" recently.
golden belfry
considering its the closest mainstream sci-fi franchise in terms of lore and multimedia approach to halo, it seems a bit harsh to nuke it entirely
but yeah, i get it
versed helm
I think Zoup from the SoTP sever put it best the other day. "Gameplay is an abstraction".
There's more leniency in that.
golden belfry
the way I see it is the lore is extrapolated out from the gameplay
the game sets the framework for what the things are
obsidian thistle
Well Gameplay isnt nuked completely. But its very much X is there, Mechanics are not. (Unless stated)
golden belfry
and then extra material is made outside of that to explain the gameplay in depth
often for the sake of story this renders what we see and experience within the gameplay moot
and merely a 'representation of events'
hence (to bring it back to the original point) why there are levels of canonicity with elements being relevant within the current lore and elements that are not
astral dust
Well since 90% of fanbase does not read books or comics most get their lore from the game.
Which is why H5 got bad wrap and you needed to read the books to understand that game well.
golden belfry
and things that go against the current lore are less accurate or canon than otherwise
aka, why books are re-released and all that
tbh imo h5 got the wrap it deserved because it failed to engage off the interesting threads that h4 set up
obsidian thistle
Well here is a fun example I like to use. The Bloodfuel Grunts in Halo Wars 2. In gameplay they can steal health from units. But in reality they dont. But the unit itself exists.
golden belfry
but thats another story for another day
versed helm
Imo, Halo 4 was the one that was brilliant if you read the books.
golden belfry
agreed
astral dust
Ehh. Fans care about everything and they care about nothing.
versed helm
"Oh, people didn't like that"
"Let's overcompensate"
And they proceeded to step in every possible pile of excrement they possibly could
I still kinda like it, though
astral dust
H5 was good
versed helm
Just because I've got that Halo indoctrination. Got into it when I was 6, ironically.
golden belfry
Anyway to bring it back to the scorpion, there is no lore or definitive explanation to individual specifics of the tank for the sake of the argument we're in
all we have is the general 'feel' of the tank in game
versed helm
Agreed.
golden belfry
we know what its meant to do, be capable of, and work like
but we dont know the specifics
versed helm
We know some specifics. But in capability arguments, if that's what's going on here, they're pitifully insufficient.
golden belfry
and because there is nothing that says otherwise in the wider lore we can generally assume that what we see in the games, the "feel"; is what therye meant to be like in lore
Scorpion tank velocity is inconsistent in all@games anyways so that would render it already moot if we followed by the frame of thinking , which is false.
So even if you were right. It’d already have contradictions and wouldn’t be usable anyways.```
So i think this isnt really an accurate commentWHO
obsidian thistle
Well there is the "numerous variant" clause I guess you could use.
versed helm
WHO SAID M118
astral dust
Haha
versed helm
Does somebody need the M118 7.62x51mm FMJ-AP rundown?
astral dust
I knew that would get someone. 😂
versed helm
Dude
I have spent
An unhealthy amount of time thinking about the MA5-series and the cartridges they fire
astral dust
That’s good!
golden belfry
tldr halo tanks are cool but pretty bad compared to irl tanks and I think thats sad as it wouldnt be hard to make some extra lore to justify that
versed helm
I mean, I just assume that they've got stronger armour and more powerful guns.
The UNSC has made many advances in material science.
They tend to result in linear improvements.
astral dust
I mean Covenant wins in everything technologically. Except our front line game, we gotta step up our Defense
golden belfry
You would think that, but theres nothing that actually shows that or makes it feel like that
versed helm
And don't tell me that just because the cannon is 90mm it's a bad cannon, projectile calibre is nothing next to velocity and materials.
Plus if it's a KEP it barely matters anyway.
golden belfry
granted the tank has gotten better each game, but like, its still nothing compared to irl tanks we have
golden belfry
anyway, i get you, dont worry 😉
versed helm
To use your own argument against you, have you used an Abrams in a Halo game?
Do you know how it feels comparatively?
golden belfry
quickly looks for a ce mod that adds an abrams
obsidian thistle
Well there is a lotta Scorpion tanks in the Series. Halo 2 holds the record for most variants in 1 game lol. With each Scorpion essentially being a tad different in the lore (not that you'd ever notice cause gameplay only has the differences be a graphic change in classic graphics)
versed helm
I think these things are best not to think about.
golden belfry
Have now 😜
versed helm
The Scorp is a sick tank that can be airlifted by a spaceplane, only requires one or two operators because of intelligent automation, and puts the hurt on most things.
All that matters.
astral dust
More of a Elephant fan
gaunt oakBOT
versed helm
The whole M820 line is awesome.
Kinda wish the M808 got some lore additions to be more in-line with it. Some kinda special gun instead of a bog standard 90mm SBHV, y'know?
carmine sleet
There's allot of S-IVs about, so they aren't going to run out of Spartans any time soon
tardy merlin
if you think about it, master chief is the biggest simp in the universe. chasing after cortana like that. smh.
carmine sleet
What?
tardy merlin
Yes.
versed helm
Hey. He's loyal to his comrades.
Slash uh, suffering from multiple overlapping mommy issues that she embodies.
terse lava
You had me excited for a moment that it was a new territory one
Quite beautiful though
spiral jewel
stupid question... between the events of Forward unto Dawn (2526) and Halo 4(2557), did Blue Team ever reencounter Lasky and the other survivors or was the time between H4 and H5 when the groups reunited...? i do apologize if i worded this oddly
terse lava
As far as we know, those were the only times they met
carmine sleet
It's not impossible for them to have met again during that time but I'd say it's unlikely
terse lava
At best would think it would just be in the same system during a battle
runic bluff
I wonder if there's a higher res version of it
gilded mason
terse lava
I recall asking this before but sadly cant remember what the answer was. Do we know what galaxg bungie used to represent the milky way?
carmine sleet
The Milky Way. Like what was used for the Cartographer in Halo 3
terse lava
Out of universe, they didnt take an already existing galaxy as a representation?
terse lava
Elephant 😋
feral perch
Press RB to flip...
agile tangle
Chief really do be the biggest simp 😔
carmine sleet
What's that supposed to mean, PP Gang
terse lava
Confused myself too
versed helm
Noun. simp (plural simps) (slang) A man who foolishly overvalues a woman and puts her on a pedestal. (slang) A simple person lacking common sense; a fool or simpleton.
some newer slang the kids use
carmine sleet
Had a feeling it was short for simpleton
versed helm
lol
carmine sleet
Still, not a word I'd describe Chief as
gilded mason
What about "Dork"?
pure acorn
terse lava
Seriously? Worthless filter
As for chief, in a nutshell, cortana was the closest he had gotten to a woman. Losing her was different for him then losing linda as she could be revived. Such a thing was lacking with Cortana
gilded mason
cortana was the closest he for to a woman
Hm?
terse lava
Fixed
terse lava
More emotional, look at his life when it comes to women
gilded mason
Everyone always forgets about K
terse lava
Oh so that's what filterd me
I hadn't forgotten. Her
He had feelings for that girl in his childhood, was nabbed. Obvlion implies he had feeling for K, he couldn't act on those
carmine sleet
087 was always more of a sister to Chief
terse lava
Cortana was the closest he got to an emotional relationship with an woman
gilded mason
Eh.
terse lava
Always saw linda as that
that little rebel girl in Ovlivion stated it was obvious chief was.keeping K safe
I only give that credit purely due to the author putting it in
gilded mason
Not to mention, Kelly's Waypoint article notes that she's John's closest friend
terse lava
shrug I guess.my point just boils down too he has no real clue on how to handle losing a woman.
carmine sleet
That's not answer we'll ever get, Donk
I don't think Chief has any issues with losing to women. That's not something that they would have taught to the S-IIs
terse lava
Not losing to them, just losing the ones.close to him
carmine sleet
My point still stands, he would have no issue losing to a woman, whether they be someone close to him or not
terse lava
Never said he did
carmine sleet
I guess.my point just boils down too he has no real clue on how to handle losing a woman.
If he has no idea how to handle it, that would mean he would have issues with losing
terse lava
Yes, the way you were wording it made it seem you thought unsaid he couldnt handle losing to a woman, like fighting against her
carmine sleet
That is basically what you said
carmine sleet
Ah, I see
carmine sleet
You mean Linda living, right? I doubt he hoped for her to die
versed helm
is Zeta Halo still active?
carmine sleet
As in able to be fired?
versed helm
yes
stoic hamlet
Wait, what’s this about losing a woman?
terse lava
Person earlierbsaying saying chief went foolishly after cortana, went into a short talk of me commenting that the reason for that was likely that Cortana was the closest a woman managed to get to him and he coulsnt handle her loss well as he had no prior experience with it
inner basin
...Sounds all too familiar
terse lava
Btw, would there be a reason for the plasma rifle being rather powerful in halo 1 but lacked that in the following games?
versed helm
neural physics
gilded mason
that too
inner basin
Probably gameplay more so because Bungie did give a canon reason for changing things
terse lava
Well met lore😋 I know the game reason
gilded mason
Nothing lore-wise as far as I know
inner basin
^^
Maybe Elites were hurting their hands and were more susceptible to cramps so eased off? Idk...
versed helm
lol
terse lava
I chuckled more at that then I should have.
Although speaking of halo 1, while they were rather small, how far do you think the ranges of those proto graveminds went?
inner basin
Wdym? Their range of influence?
terse lava
Yes
topaz iron
Not sure but sounds like being apart of one would be hell
inner basin
It is... Eternal misery is the best way to describe it... Poor Jenkins. He deserved better. As for their influence, I’d imagine it’s rather large, but then when they convert to a Gravemind, it only increases.
I can’t really give an estimate of how big their influence is unfortunately, Ado, but on I-04, the PG controlled all the Flood forces
terse lava
Yet there were 2
terse lava
One on truth and rec, the other on infinite succor
terse lava
And flood loves you
inner basin
Oh yeah, wasn’t that second one with the flood Half Jaw encountered
terse lava
Yep @inner basin
gilded mason
Yeah
jolly furnace
How does one send an invite to another. I wanna invite a friend here
inner basin
In terms of influence then, I’d assume Truth and Rec PG controlled flood on the ring, then the other with the flood in orbit above the ring
gilded mason
@jolly furnace
Right click your friend's name and select "Invite to server"
versed helm
Nasty business.
jolly furnace
I suspect proto-gravemind influence goes far enough to command a sizable army of flood
terse lava
Yes
jolly furnace
based on HW and CE
terse lava
I was curious on how much influence the proto had over the flood on alpha halo
jolly furnace
Yeah large enough to command the ones on the covie ship anyway
terse lava
Well yes
jolly furnace
we dont have much to go on regarding it
inner basin
Well I’d beg to argue that it’s got influence over all the areas we see them at. As for how that is geographically, idk, but it’s influence is large nonetheless. We see the Flood co-ordinated everywhere we go, even on the PoA. That’s all I have left to contribute to this conversation
terse lava
I know the real reason was that bungie hadn't made it yet, but lore wise I am kinda surprised on the black of flood biomass anywhere
inner basin
Ado, they were starting to collect bodies in the corners of the Truth and Rec (during our second time being there). This could be leading up to that, but they didn’t have enough time
terse lava
That's what brought this up
jolly furnace
mainly cos hardware for infecting wasnt possible i guess
U could put it down to that particular batch of flood's age
or as u said gathering bodies for biomass conversion
terse lava
They didnt have time, yet high charity within minutes had biomass everywhere. I at first chalked this up to the presence of a gravemind over a protogravemind. Thus the question of influence range came in
jolly furnace
who knows
inner basin
Maybe because bodies were scattered everywhere on HC, where as there was sufficiently less on Truth and Rec
jolly furnace
maybe
inner basin
Remember on HC a three way war was being fought (even before the Flood came in)
terse lava
Yes
inner basin
(That being Chief vs Elites vs Brutes if you were wondering)
jolly furnace
Aye
inner basin
But we don’t really have any official answers afaik
inner basin
I would shoehorn a Spartan-III topic in here but that’s already too saturated with the amount of discussion we’ve had with them lately (and that’s coming from someone who loves discussing Spartan-III lore)
terse lava
Hardlight body
gilded mason
Yeah
terse lava
Yes, apparantly, except guilt😋
gilded mason
You can still see digital-ness on her in that final Blue Team scene with her
Maybe the real mass-murder was the friends we made along the way.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
That was where the Composer was sending its stuff
jolly furnace
didact was transporting composed essences to composers abyss to store them in new promethean knight bodies
gilded mason
Yeah, and then that really silly Cortana Fairy thing happened
jolly furnace
I mean realistically he couldnt take didact in a straight fight
the grenade's are sticky
they stuck to stuff if i remembr right
probably dont
maybe it got inserted in a gap in his armor plating
i dont know
there's bigger lore issues or stuff to debate
terse lava
How about this, what if the brutes rebelled against the covenant and allied with humans
jolly furnace
Cos to his knowledge he was i think
terse lava
Because at the time he was
jolly furnace
Also so the player could feel unique i guess
terse lava
Halo 1 was met to be a single game
terse lava
Neither did i
gilded mason
What about Linda?
She was clinically dead.
terse lava
I thought I had been gifted the 2nd game in a series
gilded mason
Halsey
terse lava
Yep
jolly furnace
jun
gilded mason
She's so good, she can hack a Contender-class AI from a console in a couple minutes
terse lava
No, she was rescued
jolly furnace
we dont talk about that Ostral
terse lava
@gilded masoni hate that to this day
gilded mason
lol
jolly furnace
We ignore that
jolly furnace
plot
terse lava
PRECURSORS
gilded mason
Neural
jolly furnace
That's not how Neural Physics works!!
jolly furnace
Cortana never even did that
in 5
yeah i know
She hasnt shown the ability period
fair hazel
Okay hang on wait what?
jolly furnace
Yeah i still wanna know the Domain suddenly lets her control forerunner tech
fair hazel
What does womanhood have to do with John and dealing with loss?
jolly furnace
Since when is the Domain cyberspace or the Grid?
gilded mason
Past that, Erick
fair hazel
What did I just read earlier?
jolly furnace
It's a Precursor immaterial transcendent resevoir of information and essences
which are apparently all gone now
thanks to halo firing
gilded mason
big rip
jolly furnace
so BS on 5's version of it
fair hazel
Cortana being 'female' and stuff, that's just, no, not having to do with loss.
And now for the domain
gilded mason
Iso and pals were able to reboot it, at least
jolly furnace
Also if Cortana is able to match or defeat Abaddon at some point then i'm done
fair hazel
Well, the domain was damaged in some way but I dont think we know for sure the full effects of the halo array firing and all of that.
gilded mason
No
fair hazel
No, the warden is a protector of the domain
gilded mason
Who we never heard of before 5 for some reason
terse lava
Yea, as for his backstory...nada
terse lava
Or just gone
fair hazel
there are a lot of things about the domain or forerunners we dont know about
jolly furnace
The Domain can't protect itself Donk
It's an incorporeal entity
a realm
dimension, realm, whatever
same thing
in halo verse really
gilded mason
She was always digital
terse lava
Think he means transcend
jolly furnace
Abaddon is the Overseer of the Domain. Warden is it' Protector
gilded mason
Eh, she's just an AI that hoodwinked Warden
jolly furnace
The Domain transcends ordinary spacetime
it's non linear
due to having the impressions of forerunner desecendents in it from after the Halo firing
Cortana reprogrammed him during dominion splinter comic
maybe its him fighting the programming
gilded mason
She always had the power to stop it
gilded mason
Some speculate she might've just wanted John and didn't want the rest of Blue Team around
terse lava
Actually come to think of it, would all those in the domain have ceased to exist when the halos fired, or "saved" by abbdon?
jolly furnace
possibly
gilded mason
So she’s willing to let Warden kill johns closest friends and battle buddies
It wouldn't surprise me.
jolly furnace
I mean the domain is essentially an afterlife for mortals at least
yeah
GM muses on the afterlife at one point
gilded mason
She's already a mass-murdering possessive creep, this ain't a large step up
terse lava
Just shows the covenant were right on not advancing ai too far
gilded mason
Yup. Poor Iona
sharp adder
True
terse lava
Way to bring down the mood ostral
gilded mason
lol
jolly furnace
Well no one could seen Precursor space magic coming when it came to AI's gettin flood corrupted
gilded mason
The rampant parts
feral perch
bruh she's a megalomaniac
gilded mason
That's why she wanted to go about it with "Golly, those dang Prometheans killed them! What a shame, huh. Aaanyway..." I imagine
"He'll get over it once he sees how great I made the galaxy."
feral perch
It's like when the typical obsessed girlfriend tries to cut her SO off from everyone else in his life
gilded mason
Yeah
jolly furnace
I mean she's not exactly sane
feral perch
You're only judging the surface actions of these characters.
Their intrinsic motivations may be as irrational as humans' motivations can be, given the general theme of AI-human equivalency.
astral dust
Why did the brutes join the Covenant. They don’t seem the religious pious type. Were the offered something
feral perch
They are the religious, pious type. They were fiercely devoted to Truth and the Great Journey.
astral dust
Seem more of a brute
feral perch
Exceptions, of course, there are, such as Atriox.
jolly furnace
Lydus
feral perch
But many, like Castor, Orsun, Tartarus, and others, were quite devoted.
gilded mason
Broken Circle talked about how many had been searching for theological meaning in their lives.
feral perch
However, the Jiralhanae had nuked their own civilization back to a primitive state, so they couldn't do much to resist the Covenant.
astral dust
If their armor is still Titanium, don’t think so since Titanium is low magnetic pull
carmine sleet
Those are electro magnets in the boots so that they can stick to any magnetic surfaces if they need to
gilded mason
I like Covie stuff.
jolly furnace
Nice
versed helm
I like everything
carmine sleet
I wouldn't really say I have an area of expertise but I do know more about Spartans and Covenant weapons than I do things like Forerunners (Granted, I do retain allot of random bits of info quite easily)
jolly furnace
Yeah
Most of my interest is on ancient halo era
But i do retain random stuff
Cool
terse lava
Covenant and sangheili here
jolly furnace
4's are a natural progression
carmine sleet
Finally! Someone else who realises that the IVs were the natural next step in the Spartans
jolly furnace
its implied the ultimate goal of augmentation is for all humans to be spartan like eventually
exactyl
carmine sleet
I believe that's Halsey's own personal hope. Less something that anyone hopes
unique rune
I mean I never would have argued that they aren't the next step but the methane breathing bit is a bit daft
jolly furnace
and those 2 may have spartan like naturally before augmentation
astral dust
Need more characters that are like Xytan.
jolly furnace
Why is methane breathing bad?
unique rune
Because it straight up just doesn't make sense
jolly furnace
why?
carmine sleet
It doesn't make sense from a biological stand point basically
carmine sleet
It's similar to why inhaling helium is dangerous. It replaces the oxygen in your blood and will cause you to suffocate if you do it too much
jolly furnace
I get ya
unique rune
Unless they can someone run entirely on anaerobic respiration for extended periods of time it's just kinda
silly
It's odd, but at least it's not completely ignoring how biological function works
jolly furnace
It's not like humans can use neural physics to defy physics so yah
hmm
I mean unless Precursor magic is involved then yeah
Cos we all know Precursor magic handwaves science and logic away
in some areas more
in other no
i never played them so i cant say
thats sounds like a fun 2 years
lovely
terse lava
Gore? Thought there was some type of body left
versed helm
An incredibly burned, charred corpse.
jolly furnace
So plot hole
versed helm
Not really.
jolly furnace
cloning?
carmine sleet
Space magic Does the magic hand thingy
jolly furnace
extreme plastic surgery
versed helm
They explain that Shepard's hardsuit helmet managed to protect vital parts of their brain.
jolly furnace
skin grafting
versed helm
And that was really all they needed.
Well, presumably Shepard didn't make impact with the ground.
I mean you being pretty sure doesn't change the fact that we don't see it.
terse lava
Just to keep this halo lore friendly, how well do you think the covenant and citadel races would get along?
versed helm
I mean
Probably not
Since engineers and keepers are beings of a similar nature with masters of very different intent.
jolly furnace
Covies exterminate or incorporate citadel
versed helm
There's a YouTube video about that, Donk.
jolly furnace
forerunners stomp reapers
astral dust
^
jolly furnace
its not a contest
versed helm
It illustrates the comparative scale of Halo and mass effect.
astral dust
Almost all games copy one another now
jolly furnace
and the only thing they have over forerunners is the abiity to create an entire new species
Forerunners only made nano based huragok
jolly furnace
Jardann made organic sapient life like Precursors
jolly furnace
I have a theory humans created a sapient species and thats why Precursors chose them for Mantle.
And that maybe it was the Sangheili
astral dust
Almost all as sci-fi copies either WH 40k or ⭐️ Wars...
jolly furnace
alien predates WH i think
terse lava
The forerunner books said though that the precursors created life
astral dust
Precursors are the most advanced race as a Tier 0 civilization, I bet on that.
They created life
terse lava
Yep, only other ones capable of doing that were the forerunners
jolly furnace
well their domain contains 100 billion years of knowledge
most of it from before the stars existed
so its very possible
and Warfleet describes them as having infinite forms and transcending realms
forging dimensions
etc
Odds are they predate this universe
terse lava
At best I would say they entered it from.another
I wouldn't give them credit for making the universe. They themselves saw the universe as a living being
jolly furnace
yeah
possibly cos they made it
ultimately we dont know yet
but its a possiblity
regardless they did create life all over the universe
terse lava
Well we arent told that either, only various galaxies. How far their influence reached is unknown
jolly furnace
we were
several times
in mythos
in warfleet
they've explored and seeded galaxies
and its implied in the FS
terse lava
But we are never told how many
jolly furnace
no but we know they have
and given their age
it would be easy to explore them all
the universe was far smaller once upon a time
terse lava
The universe also expanded very, very fast
Either way, I doubt the precursoes are the top dog anyway. Warfleet does mention that there were threats they couldnt kill
carmine sleet
There's always a bigger fish
terse lava
Normally yes
The threats could have been anything. Rebel precursors, quelled rebellions from other creations, Other tier 0 races.
There was. Clearly something that could challenge precursors, otherwise they would not have had things like "fortresses."
jolly furnace
Iexactly Ado
My guess is we wont find out
cos any such threats would be impossible for modern halo to fight
if the precursors coundnt kill them
my guess is different precusor factions, they did exist in inifnite forms and specis
terse lava
Honestly for all we know, the threats could be portals to every other fictional universe
jolly furnace
species
or lovecraftian entities like them
it could be a Lensemen thing
Eddorians vs Artisans
Or various interdimensional species
like Marvel
terse lava
Maybe
jolly furnace
speakin of Eddorians, they were an inspiration for greg bear when he wrote for the precrsors
terse lava
I like the idea of precursors, as.maybe they had a proper mentality rather then the " erase your creations thing"
jolly furnace
physica formless beings from another spacetime continuum who entered the physical universe
terse lava
Fun
jolly furnace
I wanna know where the races prior to foreurnners and AH are
did the precursors kill them?
did they just go extinct
did the forerunners kill them
Are we all Precurosrs?
DId they seed their own DNA on worlds
?
terse lava
My personal theory is that the precursors at one point went through a rebellion of some sort. Some were sealed away, while the rest became the ones who love and hate
Or perhaps they will just to off the reapers
"We control evolution, you get to become us"
Maybe the previous races who failed the mantle were "erased" in the sense they had all sense of self wiped away
jolly furnace
well thats what the forerunners said anyway
how true it is unlear given its the forerunners sayin it
and with what they did
terse lava
I will take their word over the gravemind
jolly furnace
I wonder if the Flood's original purpose was to merge humans and forerunners back together into a new species which the precursors would transfer their essences into
astral dust
Zealots are tasked with reclaiming Holy Artifacts right?
terse lava
@astral dustyes
jolly furnace
i dont beleive forerunners for their bias and histroy
and i dont fully believe GM for obvious reasons
terse lava
And yet the gravemind itself tells half truths and clearly is evil
astral dust
So are they the only Sangheili Caste that has a special purpose? Do other ranks do anything specific other then war?
terse lava
You mean the military ranks?
astral dust
I see, Ultra’s are crazy right, like they want to kill and die in battle
For “honor” they do it
terse lava
The osasuna rank, a temporary rank given to chosen major, will only record and study things in a combat setting but not figh themselves
terse lava
Yep, appeared in halo: the flood
Their use active camo to stay safe, but lack shields
astral dust
That is cool
terse lava
The councilors should count as well as they are no longer ground warriors
And even a normal major or even a minor may end up in a non combat role
astral dust
So it is almost like assignments?
terse lava
Major Thel 'Lodamee was a second to his fleetmaster
As was Tam 'Lakosee to fleetmaster Nizat
And a minor in "The Flood" was an assistant to the prophet of stewardship"
terse lava
Eh
gilded mason
Xytan was a jerk
terse lava
He was not the best minor
astral dust
Xytan stood up to prophets and still led his own covenant to their original purpose
May have died along way, but hey
What are you gonna do.
When you’re almost 12ft tall and have never lost ever. You may be a jerk a little
gilded mason
I see, Ultra’s are crazy right, like they want to kill and die in battle
This is what Ground Command had to say about Ultras:
Few remain as [Ultras] for long, and Sangheili promoted to Ultra are expected to take up honorable posts as seneschals, tread the path of political warfare as a Councillor, or return to their ministry to train the next generation of warriors.
terse lava
Its implied he wasnt truly 12ft tall
terse lava
Mmmm, that sangheili lore so tasty
gilded mason
Ye
gilded mason
5 feet
astral dust
Oof
terse lava
Hes joking
astral dust
Oof
gilded mason
Yeah, he's actually 4 feet
terse lava
Dang it ostral XD
astral dust
You guys are just pushing my motives to never trust Sangheili
gilded mason
😏
terse lava
No in truth xytan was indeed taller then most
astral dust
Taller than a Brute?
terse lava
But used holograms and his own armor to appear larger
I would believe so
Not certainly not as tall as a full mgalekgolo
And not trust sangheili? They are pretty trustworthy to me
astral dust
Well Ostral isn’t.
gilded mason
lol
astral dust
🤣
feral perch
Kekistan
gilded mason
Good ol Orta 'Rakom will never steer you wrong, my good sir.
feral perch
Home of the Kekheili
astral dust
Kwords of Kekheilios
Hey Sangheili aren’t as bad as those players who reached Inheritor rank on Reach and still would use the Recon helmet.
terse lava
Fun
astral dust
All Inheritor players either wanted to copy Jun or Chief.
astral dust
About 3ft. Ost would know
astral dust
You mean Stolt?
gilded mason
Anyway, I imagine he's around the 7 foot range, I guess?
jolly furnace
I got the impression he was lager and taller than ur average grunt since he injured a spartan
and took on elites in sparring
cos grunts are 5-6 fott average i think
terse lava
He was high enough for his head to reach a sangheili's shoulder
Average grunt only goes waist high
jolly furnace
then he's tall alirght
average grunt is the size of a grown man
5-6 foot
i think
astral dust
A 6ft tall methane breathing turtle thing
jolly furnace
with extremely tough skin
gilded mason
Average is 4'6" to 5'6" for Grunts
terse lava
Yep so avg human height
gilded mason
based
jolly furnace
games dont give u proper perspcective of some covie species height or sizes
astral dust
One of the best Covenant moments was in Halo2 when you go to the Shrine and prophet speaks the covenant tongue loved that
gilded mason
Shrine?
terse lava
Shrine?
jolly furnace
regret's chanting?
astral dust
Where the Sangheili Honor guard are in
terse lava
High. Charity?
gilded mason
Oh, the Delta Halo lake temple
jolly furnace
yeah that
terse lava
Oh
jolly furnace
i loved that level
astral dust
I wish Halo would make more Covenant perspective missions. Like when you play as Arby in 2
gilded mason
Indeed
terse lava
I like this guy
jolly furnace
Yeah
gilded mason
ODST was almost a Sangheili squad game
gilded mason
Indeed
astral dust
I just don’t want another ten yrs of a guy in a suit blowing up the galaxy. I like more team oriented halo’s.. ODST, H5, Reach etc.,
jolly furnace
nor i
terse lava
Yep playing chief got boring fast
terse lava
Never really had any love for him anyway
astral dust
I respect Chief but I am not a huge fan of him.
Halo5 was very misleading but I did like the voice acting and art style.
gilded mason
I want future games to feature more unconventional protagonists. Sangheili, Kig-Yar, Grunts, all that jazz.
astral dust
Yes^
terse lava
Including a jazz playing brute
gilded mason
Yes
terse lava
Or better yet
astral dust
Bring back Grav Ham Unggoys
gaunt oakBOT
astral dust
Oh no
terse lava
Who was that?
jolly furnace
I want to see more deleted concepts for aliens used
astral dust
No idea XD
terse lava
Agreed
jolly furnace
like the Sigma from the Halo MMO
terse lava
Even just the cut covenant races
jolly furnace
yeah
astral dust
I still have hope for 343, I think they learned their lesson from H5
jolly furnace
hopefully
astral dust
Now I have another question
terse lava
Ok
astral dust
When were books starting to be made? Was Bungie making them and 343 took over
Or did 343 push for more books needed to be made
terse lava
Several books were made under bungie
gilded mason
Though they were quite against it at first.
terse lava
I suggest reading broken circle
gilded mason
Of course. 😉
terse lava
Best halo book ever
humble yacht
Fall of Reach was written in a period of like 3 months . Bungie didn’t want the book but Microsoft did
astral dust
Ahhh. Well isn’t considered one of the best? Or no?
astral dust
I feel like a lot of publishers do that to Developers
humble yacht
343 is much more open to trans media than Bungie
astral dust
That’s good
jolly furnace
bungie kept its games as seperate as possible from the books
but did throw in references here and there
astral dust
That kinda stinks too, I wanted to see more of Noble in the books
fair hazel
Well it’s 343 philosophy in general by conception
terse lava
Yep
astral dust
Well I will always have faith in Halo no matter who owns it..except maybe another company that starts with E, ends in another letter of the alphabet
terse lava
Do we have an "A"?
"Yes one A"
astral dust
Haha 😂
terse lava
As for that earlier precursor topic I wonder if we will ever get the truth
deep pewter
Bungie’s philosophy really irked me at times, it almost felt like completely different series’ at times when they were at the helm
terse lava
That's because they couldnt decide what to do
astral dust
@terse lava somethings are left unanswered
For the better
Precursors scare me
Like where are they? They waiting around a corner? They waiting for Halo rings again
shy cedar
“343 is more open to trans media” oh, you have my attention 🏳️🌈
jolly furnace
I doubt it Ado
Given the sheer scope of their age and scale of their power
and reach
i doubt it
its too big to grasp properly
remote spruce
so what do ultra grunts do if ultra elites are more or less temporary
astral dust
They command the other unggoys I guess
They still have a job
Do Spartans still make modifications to their equipment like in Reach or H5? In Halo Wars 2(which is latest game in chronological order) they all look the same and like Chief
deep pewter
Red team wouldn’t have had access to the modifications to MJOLNIR, presumably
feral perch
Red Team did not have access to a full suite of Mjolnir tech, either onboard the Spirit of Fire or on the Ark. They did, however, make use of spare GEN2 Mjolnir parts that were on the Ark for any visiting Spartan-IVs
That’s how Douglas’s armor was fixed after Atriox did a number on it
astral dust
Ahh, I see
Is Kat from Noble Team from a planet that has a accent?
She sounds like she has a European accent
Also does the UNSC use the Metric system or Imperial System?
remote spruce
metric
feral perch
Kat probably shouldn’t have an accent, but yeah, she was from a region where they had that accent
astral dust
Understood.
undone hearth
Is there a possibility of James still being alive
terse lava
His last comment was being surrounded by rangers so doubtful
undone hearth
Rip
last anchor
Also out of control, in SPACE...over REACH...yeah.
astral dust
So, why did the Hierarchs replace the Sangheili? Also why did they send Tartarus to kill Arby
terse lava
They didnt trust them anymore
humble yacht
So, why did the Hierarchs replace the Sangheili?
Regret died under their watch, so the prophets lost confidence in the elites. At least, that's what Truth argued to the high council
Also why did they send Tartarus to kill Arby
Well they always planned for him to die, they just sent Tartarus to make it happen faster after the arbiter wasn't useful to them anymore
last anchor
Well, Truth didn't. He wanted a full power play.
terse lava
Well mercy didnt help things being an "old guard" san shyuuum who voiced it was a mistake to decommission the keyship
astral dust
Also why did they show Locke and Arbiter at the end of Halo 2 but didn’t do anything with it till H5
versed helm
@astral dust That a joke, man?
Locke was only introduced in H2A as part of the MCC, which came out like a year before H5. It was meant to lead into H5.
Classic H2 came out in 2004, and I can assure you Locke was not in it.
deep pewter
Hopefully we get to see more or Locke in the future
versed helm
I personally hope Osiris aren't quite done after Halo 5.
I do think they had their moments.
But Bad Blood didn't exactly bode well.
astral dust
Ahh, didn’t know Halo 2 anniversary was different from H2
spiral jewel
I'm sure someone will replace Buck when it comes to Osiris, since Buck went and got the band back together.
terse lava
Or Rtas
...maybe Nizat
Btw, are the halo war 1 logs properly canon? I ask due to we have edicts from the previous batch of hierarchs which appear to give orders on dealing with "unclean beings." Searching kig-yar vessels and having 500 covenant teams learn the "unclean" language
gilded mason
Have the Covenant called humans "Unclean" anywhere other than HW1?
remote spruce
they probably found some library books in mud
terse lava
Ah, have some quotes by chance?
gilded mason
Doing a word search on the PDF yields nothing for "unclean" in that book.
astral dust
Well there are only two quotes that mentioned unclean.. I thought it was harvest but maybe it’s Halo wars..
Twenty-Ninth Age of Doubt
"It is known the Kig-Yar ship Pitiless has brought forth an Unclean Being's corpse. Hear now, all Kig-Yar vessels are to be searched. Let faithful Sangheili lead teams of Unggoy to all Kig-Yar ships and seek further evidence of the Unclean. It is done."
— High Prophet of Restraint
gilded mason
That's from HW1, yeah
astral dust
Hear now that 500 teams are to be formed to study the language of the Unclean. Each team to consist of the most clever and most educated Unggoy and Sangheili. These teams to speak only the Unclean language among themselves. The Unclean language to be taught to all military strike teams, that the foe shall be vulnerable."
— High Prophet of Tolerance
terse lava
Yes those are the 2 I was looking at
astral dust
Guess Halo Wars is only thing to mention unclean
versed helm
Not exactly notable.
terse lava
Well not the problem really. The problem was those are fron the hierarchs before regret, truth, and mercy