lore-and-universe

[versed helm]

And presumably, hits somewhat harder.

[half apex]

i have a question

[hasty locust]

Real question is though

[half apex]

concerning locke and chief's fight

[hasty locust]

Why are they using almost 500 year old rounds?

[half apex]

so towards the end we see chief take an assualt rifle and put its back on his back

[versed helm]

~If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Is the rationale we get mostly.

[half apex]

when did he ever take out his ar?

[versed helm]

There's some evidence that they're merely rounds that work on the same principle

@half apex I dunno. Continuity error. Who cares.

[half apex]

me

[versed helm]

Maybe it was knocked off in the fight.

[hasty locust]

Isn’t the warthog like 300 years old

[astral dust]

@hasty locust Well the MA5 rifle shoots 15 rounds per second.. so a 500yr old bullet will do the job

[versed helm]

Anyway, what I was gonna say is that UNSC ammunition likely makes use of the UNSC's myriad materials advances to have superior traits to modern ammo in a number of aspects.

[hasty locust]

True dat

[versed helm]

And if my theory is true that the 7.62 is a different cartridge, that would support that.

[astral dust]

You see Ivan. This 762.

[versed helm]

Well, 7.62x51 is 7.62 NATO.

7.62 Soviet is like 7.62x39.

When the UNSC's usage of deflagration-powered projectile-throwers - aka, normal guns - has been rationalized in lore, the terms "reliability" and "simplicity" are often thrown around.

On the DMR page in the old Essential Visual Guide, it straight-up says that the UNSC prefers conventional firearms because they are reliable.

[hasty locust]

Well, I’ve gotta run, nice talkin to y’all

[versed helm]

The primary alternate, plasma weapons, also have the critical flaw of being pretty inaccurate on account of their relatively low muzzle velocity.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, they have a .50 cal as a standard sidearm

[versed helm]

Which means enemies at long ranges have an easier time avoiding incoming fire.

@stoic hamlet Not exactly .50 BMG, though. It is a specially designed .50 handgun cartridge that exists in the modern era.

[stoic hamlet]

Still impressive

[versed helm]

But that is true. All the UNSC's firearms are upscaled like, two notches over what you expect today.

Like, when you look at the modern 5.56, the next step above that in terms of armour-penetrating power and long-range momentum is something in the 6mm ballpark. I think the US military is looking at adopting 6.8 right now.

7.62 is a return to the old-school very hard-hitting battle rifles of the early Cold War.

[terse lava]

Joy

[versed helm]

The emphasis on modern war's close-range firefights (in which smaller ammunition can match larger ammunition's terminal ballistics), as well as the need to maximise the amount of ammunition carried for automatic weapons, has brought about a certain case of affairs.

But in the 26th century, they may well have needed a platform with more robust capabilities at long range, as well as a platform which is more suited to specialist ammunition types, the UNSC's chief AP ammo being among them (as well as their hollowpoint "shredder" rounds, the nickname being a nice giveaway as to their effect on target, and the delightful APHE used by The Answer in H5G).

The 7.62x51, just through sheer balance of volume, is a very suitable platform if you want to do funky things to a bullet.

And if you say that the UNSC has managed to take that 7.62x51 projectile, push it out the barrel faster than you can today, and cut down its weight and bulk (meaning you can carry more and fit more in a magazine), then theoretically you've got a perfectly balanced cartridge.

Assuming you can mitigate the recoil impulse for automatic fire. Which, we know the UNSC has done, because the MA2B is stated to have a recoil reduction system in TFoR.

There is a reason later versions of the FN FAL had their automatic setting removed, though.

7.62 has a kick.

It's good to be back, lads

[terse lava]

Good to have you back

[terse lava]

Think the covenant ever found anything on the precursors?

Closest I know of was inner conviction in broken circle, whom considered the forerunners were an avatar of a god

[obsidian thistle]

Well Cryptum and Silentium would suggest humanity knows about em.

[terse lava]

Well yea

But interested if the covenant ever found anything

[obsidian thistle]

Yea looking at all the available records. Nada atm. But if anything was known it was either lost with High Charity, kept Secret, or something we just havent seen be public knowledge yet

[terse lava]

Well came up because last I saw, halopedia said the precursors were mentioned in broken circle

Looks like that was changed though

[obsidian thistle]

Hasnt been on the Article for years if it was xD

[terse lava]

In my defense it had been a long time

They ate fruits, nuts, and veggies

[topaz iron]

Jerome is a baaaad man

Finally getting through HW2 for the first time

[terse lava]

Ok?

@versed helmbut yea Forerunners had not eaten meat in millions of years

[topaz iron]

Were they vegetarian?

[terse lava]

@topaz ironyes @versed helm a tenant of the mantle said to not eat "the flesh of unfortunates."

[topaz iron]

Agreed

[terse lava]

Kind of i guess

[versed helm]

Makes sense.

They could probably completely simulate meat anyway.

[terse lava]

However, the forerunners in path kethola did eat meat

[versed helm]

Hell, humanity probably eats more artificial meat than grown meat.

It's just more efficient once you have the infrastructure.

[terse lava]

The future of hotdogs

I don't see the forerunners eatingbeven fake meat. Plenty of nutrients from the fruits, nuts and veggies they would make

[versed helm]

Taste is taste.

[topaz iron]

Wonder if they had any deserts

[hasty locust]

My god

Beyond meat burgers at A&W have taken over the future

[topaz iron]

Don’t forget the impossible whopper

[stoic hamlet]

I really should try one of those burgers.

[terse lava]

I would be concerned When vegetables taste like meat

[stoic hamlet]

I have eaten at a place that was vegetarian.

I had what was essentially a chicken bacon club but with something else in place of the chicken and bacon. It was years ago though, like 2016.

[terse lava]

Although maybe tempted to try it

[stoic hamlet]

I wanna try it ye.

[terse lava]

Hm, makes me wonder if brutes are true carnivores, or just lean more towards meat over other food

[topaz iron]

I feel like a brute would not particularly prefer a salad

[terse lava]

True, but I dont recall any accounts of them growing grain or anything like that.

Outside of sangheili keeps

[topaz iron]

@terse lava you must be very well versed on the lore

[terse lava]

Plenty of us are

Just depends on the topic

[topaz iron]

Good point

I’m trying to expand my knowledge lol

[terse lava]

Well good place to be then

If you have any sangheili or covenant questions I could likly answer them

[topaz iron]

Thanks @terse lava

Is there an in universe explanation why the sangheili look different in the original trilogy compared to 4 and 5? I know for the Kig Yar there is

[terse lava]

They are a different phenotype

[gilded mason]

In-universe, it's simply that there's a multitude of phenotypes all across Sangheili space and we only see one in a game at a time

[terse lava]

Yep

[topaz iron]

I see, thanks. I like that

[terse lava]

Yep, think the only time we've had the same sangheili between 2 games was halo 1&2 and 4&5

[topaz iron]

I like how in Halo Wars 2 they look similar to 1 and 2 as well

[terse lava]

They were still somewhat different then the originals

[topaz iron]

I hope in Infinite they look more like their slimmer versions

[terse lava]

Agreed

Too animalistic in 4&5

[deep pewter]

Bungie elites were rail thin until 3/Reach, I don’t want to go back to that

[gilded mason]

CE was best. 👌

[deep pewter]

Reach elites were the pinnacle of Bungie elite designs

[terse lava]

@gilded masonnot halo 2?

[gilded mason]

Close second

[terse lava]

Why not first?

[gilded mason]

CE ones felt sleeker

[terse lava]

Fair point

Although hated that wnd armor type from ce

[clever dew]

i like how you can tell elites by their color in Halo CE

[terse lava]

You can in 2 and 3 as well

[topaz iron]

I think reach has the perfect balance as far as design goes

[gilded mason]

Reach's designs got way too gaudy for me

[terse lava]

Although reach gave them that odd toe thing

@gilded masonexcept the minor armor...right?

[gilded mason]

Yeah

[topaz iron]

Yeah the zealots were kind of over the top

Feel like they would strive for more sleek designs

[versed helm]

Elites had chicken feet in reach

[terse lava]

Halo 3 had that too

To this day idk why

[topaz iron]

I really liked the pilot armor in 3

[terse lava]

That one was pretty good looking

[versed helm]

The assault armour looks good too imo, I think it's because the pilot and assault helmets are so similar

[topaz iron]

I think I just like seeing Sangheili with closed helmets

[terse lava]

Full helmet, H2A ranger

Although idk why they chose green

[gilded mason]

For me, I like seeing humans in fully-enclosed helmets, while aliens are the opposite

[versed helm]

I'm the kinda guy who thinks both sides should have enclosed helmets

The Brutes look 1000% better with helmets

[topaz iron]

The spec ops armor from reach is pretty cool

[terse lava]

I dont mind closed helmets, but some I have trouble picturing. Like a brute in ranger uniforms

[topaz iron]

Brute stalkers are a nice mix

[terse lava]

Kinda

Had their helmet been closed in that case, would have been better

Also am I the only one intrigued that when Nizat went to see the hierarchs, he wore blue armor?

[topaz iron]

I actually can’t think of any brute armors with totally closed helmets

I mean there’s the captains in 3 but they’re not totally closed

[terse lava]

Just a ranger one

[versed helm]

Why would Nizat go to the Hierarchs dressed in blue armour? Wasn't he a shipmaster?

[terse lava]

Fleetmaster

But yes, I assume it's a callback to early covenant commanders, who rather then yellow, wore armor that was silver with blue

Kinda reverse minor

[gilded mason]

Nizat knows true fashion, the power of Blue

[terse lava]

Heh

Actually, come to think of rank, appears that at least one is a major, they learn to command a ship.

Always found that interesting

[versed helm]

Like what happened with Voro Nar 'Mantakree in Ghosts of Onyx? His circumstances were unique though

[terse lava]

Yes

But he, a lowly major, was fully capable of commanding a vessel within minutes

Although I admit we never learn his age

He could have been a major for decades

[versed helm]

This is true

[terse lava]

We know he served with tano through 8 campaigns though

[astral dust]

Do Spartans have a magnet holster on their back?

[stoic hamlet]

They have a few

[versed helm]

Everyone has a few. They're called mag-clamps.

Typically they're worked into hard armour plates.

[topaz iron]

Marines as well?

[versed helm]

Yeah. You can see it in H2A.

When Johnson pulls his BR55 off his back before facing Thel.

https://youtu.be/bEimMBS04Bk?t=7

Though Marine gear seems to be heavily down to preference.

[topaz iron]

Ah that’s right

[versed helm]

I mean regular Marines. Regular Marines and Troopers. Some of them use regular slings, some of them use mag holsters.

Some of them use full HUD goggles, some wear tactical eyepieces, some have no HUDs at all and rely on analogue screens and weapon-based sights for their battlefield information and targeting.

[astral dust]

What MJOLNIR armor does Osiris team use?

[gilded mason]

Hunter, Copperhead, Engineer, and...something

[versed helm]

Helljumper.

[gilded mason]

Ah yes

[inner basin]

Are you including combat knifes as a weapon?

[versed helm]

It really depends on the weapon.

And how much ammo they're carrying as well.

You gotta assume, thinking realistically, that Spartans carry their ammo in a variety of temporary pouches and satchels mag-clamped, strapped or buckled to their armour.

[gilded mason]

All of them are Spartan Lasers and Rocket Launchers.

[versed helm]

Well, every tube for a SPNKR might as well be a rifle in its own right.

Because the UNSC loves blasting aliens with 102mm SHAPED CHARGES

[potent cargo]

But let's be honest

who doesn't like watching some covies getting blown away

[gilded mason]

😥

[potent cargo]

well uh besides the covenant 😅

[gilded mason]

lol

[potent cargo]

idk why but my notifications for this specific chat are broken

[gilded mason]

Odd

[versed helm]

What are your settings?

[potent cargo]

oh i tried to fix them following up with discord support and it's still broken so I have given up

[versed helm]

Huh, that is odd

[potent cargo]

very

Just cant get through

like the domain

[versed helm]

That's the problem with trying to access the domain on these primitive third-galaxy planets

[terse lava]

Good going Faber

Actually, find it funny that thus far, the covenant knew of the librarian, but not faber

[versed helm]

I'd always suspected it was because of the Keyship, given it was part of the Conservation Measure

and that was the Librarian's focus

[terse lava]

Likly, yet Faber attacked their world, made the halos and the ark, yet gets no credit

[inner basin]

Did the Covenant not only learn of the Librarian when on Requiem?

I could be very wrong btw (and I’m aware)

[terse lava]

The covenant were never in requiem

[inner basin]

Well Jul’s Covenant

[terse lava]

Oh wait, jul's band

[inner basin]

I thought you would know what I meant lol

[terse lava]

Brain fart

Tis late

[inner basin]

Maybe for you, tis early for me

[terse lava]

Fun

[versed helm]

Yay time zones

[inner basin]

I wish...

[terse lava]

Anyway no, the Covenant, at least the san shyuum knew of her

Thought she was a symbol of rebirth

[inner basin]

Ahh okay 👌

[terse lava]

The prophet of inner conviction knew she was a forerunner, but also thought she may have been a myth

[versed helm]

Inner Conviction may have been the smartest of the prophets, at least he recognised Halo was a superweapon, instead of some sort of portal to godhood

Then again, that's a theme for the Covenant isn't it?

[terse lava]

He only thought so

He never knew for certain

And his faith felt restored in seeing the ark/halo hologram

[versed helm]

Hmm, true

[terse lava]

Dont think we see hin doubt it again

[unique hornet]

So I'm gonna be running an ODST RPG on Sunday to run my players through; would anyone be willing to help me brainstorm a couple of mission scenarios to put them through?

[stoic hamlet]

raises hand

[terse lava]

Timel period?

[stoic hamlet]

How familiar with the lore are they?

[unique hornet]

oh hi! You helped me last time

[stoic hamlet]

I did?

[terse lava]

Guess so

[unique hornet]

pretty sure, like a month ago

[stoic hamlet]

Ahhh, yes I did!

How’d that go?

[unique hornet]

research was invaluable, got me in a position to pretty much build the rest of the weapons of the universe since I had a benchmark to work off of. Sunday is gonna be our first session, very excited

couple of them have read the older books, couple of then have almost played a bit of MCC

[stoic hamlet]

“Almost played”?

[unique hornet]

And the current goal is to set the campaign starting right at the fall of reach and then run them through the battle of installation 04, under Silva's command

we keep trying to get one of us into our play sessions but he has "responsibilities"

[terse lava]

Interesting, a fire team ravan like thing

[unique hornet]

yeah, exactly

though I came up with this idea like 4 years ago

[terse lava]

All good

[inner basin]

So what type of lore things do you need help with?

[terse lava]

Intrigued myself

[unique hornet]

so atm we have a couple main goals for session 1: first, obviously, have covenant contact and get a couple of fights in, because duh. secondly, we have to get them onto the Pillar of Autumn before they leave for Alpha Halo. I was hoping to have them under Silva's command since he had a battalion aboard the PoA, but if they start on the Autumn then they'll only have a 6 hour window between the Autumn landing at Asźod and Keyes getting the Package and boogeying out of there

I think that 6-hour window is doable (one of the fireteam members has family on Reach so I want to give him the opportunity to react to finding out his homeworld has been getting glassed for the last couple weeks), but I'm going nuts trying to figure out what objective might warrant pulling assets off the PoA

I was originally thinking maybe they could be going after civilians that were still trapped somewhere in the area, but that puts civvies on the PoA during the events of Halo, which is... dark. Then I considered ONI scientists, but if anyone was gonna have an ODST fireteam sent to help them evacuate Reach why would someone be trying to save anyone other than Halsey?

[inner basin]

Defending the PoA as it’s docked in Aszod, unless it’s before that you need him pulled. Could be for ground support. As it’s ODSTs, they could of had an orbital drop prior to the ship landing

[terse lava]

It could be in route to the autumn rathervthen being taken off the vessel

[inner basin]

^ That works too

[terse lava]

They do their mission, then get sent in to the autumn as it's the closest vessel

[unique hornet]

I was considering that as well, though that'd be more of a last ditch effort for me

[terse lava]

Does make sense

[inner basin]

We know of ODSTs on the PoA who were fighting on the ground at Reach

[unique hornet]

we do?

[inner basin]

Actually some under Silva and others under Melissa

[unique hornet]

I couldn't find anything about Silva seeing action on Reach's surface

[inner basin]

Not Silva himself, but members of his battalion

I was reading through ODST profiles on Halopedia yesterday so it’s somewhat fresh in my head

[terse lava]

👍

[unique hornet]

do you remember any names? I'd love to see something about that

[inner basin]

I’m afraid not. There is too many. I could link you the list though

But you’ll have to dig through it

[unique hornet]

yes please, that could be useful

[inner basin]

https://www.halopedia.org/Category:Orbital_Drop_Shock_Troopers

Just scroll down once you’re on there

[unique hornet]

thanks, I'll give the page a look in the morning

[inner basin]

No problem

[unique hornet]

but yeah—any ideas on objectives that get ODSTs off the Autumn and then back on in that 6-hour window? Civilians are a hard maybe for me, as they'd need to be evac'd to a ship other than the Autumn, trying to wrack my brain for any other ideas that are feasible

maybe a demolitions mission? important site that the previous team wasn't able to complete and needs to get taken care of asap?

[terse lava]

Could work

Oni site, forerunner relics

Or help defend a mac generator station

[unique hornet]

oh, that's not a bad one

really cuts down to the wire on extraction

[terse lava]

Get overwhelmed, fall back

Heck have it be a double whammy, right as they leave, the remains if a covenant frigate plummet and crash into the station

[unique hornet]

I always like having like 7 different points of stress to juggle at once, makes things really feel tense and fast-paced

[terse lava]

Hm

Covenant army falls back in the moment if winning

All happy cheers blush blah

Covenant vessel descends from the sky with a glassing beam charging

Get to decide if you A. Use the nearby cannon to pull a noble 6. B. Evac the area to avoid glassing. C. Prepare to take on the returning covenant army and a glassing at once

And if course D.

"Local human vessel under attack by covenant, it's our only way off this rock and they need more men"

[unique hornet]

this is a lot of stuff; thanks a lot, I'll comb through it all to figure out how exactly to fit everything together

but I think this is a great place to start building from

Sunday or Monday evening I'll post whatever juicy story bits come from these encounters—if people are interested we can have ODST story time every week after my game wraps

[versed helm]

That sounds fun, I for one look forward to seeing what comes from your game

[unique hornet]

it's been so long since I've run a game like this so I'm a bit rusty

gotta get tokens and maps and lots of things to shoot at, they're very excited to die horrible nasty deaths because plasma is really g*ddamn scary

[terse lava]

Indeed, maybe as an amusing cliff hanger for them, as they get off the pelican, they fail to notice the air shimmer nearby

[unique hornet]

I may not do that on Reach but I’ll definitely do that at some point on Alpha Halo

[terse lava]

Eh your story, doesnt have to be perfect canon

[unique hornet]

It doesn’t, but I like the challenge of sticking as close as I can

I ran a superheroes game for this group many years ago, and one of my favorite sessions ended with two players engaging a regenerating mutated alien hybrid in an undersea base while a third wired the base up with explosives, detonating early to make sure the alien didn’t disrupt the demo op and having those three scramble to make their way into the escape vessel and seal the hatch as the pilot wrestled with the controls to decouple from the station as it collapsed in the Marianas trench.

Goal for this campaign is to have a session ending top that somehow

[versed helm]

Well, good luck to ya.

Happy GMing.

[unique hornet]

Thank you!

[versed helm]

Ooh, and I should say, it's worth checking for a relevant Halopedia page for anything you want ideas about.

Understanding the (sometimes pretty intricate) structure of these events would definitely be a creativity booster.

It can get a little contrived though, with Halopedia's "everything is canon" policy kinda getting choked up with the sheer volume of sources and tiny contradictions. So be wary.

[potent cargo]

The council bids you luck @unique hornet

[unique hornet]

Halopedia’s been a great help so far, helped me stat out all the enemy races and get good stats on a majority of the ranks/variant enemy types too

I’ve just finished rereading Fall of Reach and I’m hoping to knockout The Flood by next week, so hopefully total immersion keeps those juices flowing

[versed helm]

Reading The Flood should totally have you covered.

[potent cargo]

Great book btw and very in depth

[versed helm]

It's got a great, practical tone that's clearly inspired by the writer's own military experience.

[unique hornet]

I also watched a Fireteam Raven playthrough to see what all that added to the events, which is quite entertaining

[potent cargo]

Woah he has military experience?

[versed helm]

I think he was a US Navy Corpsman.

Dietz.

[potent cargo]

That's dope

[versed helm]

That's why there's so many little practicalities and bits of military logic.

[unique hornet]

Oh yeah, I was reading a bit of the early chapters of Flood earlier today, there’s a line that says something along the lines of “Chief saw two dead marines at the feet of the elites about 20 yards away. Definitely in range, he thought”

[potent cargo]

ahh makes sense

[unique hornet]

Like d@mn that’s cold

[versed helm]

Oh, @unique hornet - Fireteam Raven doesn't make this very obvious, but before you read The Flood, you should realize that it took Raven some time to trek to the Autumn's crash site.

[potent cargo]

ooo careful @unique hornet playing with fire

[versed helm]

You'll understand when you see how the supply raid on the Autumn plays out in the book.

The game, like, doesn't indicate that at all.

[potent cargo]

That's bc the game was very linear on chief himself

[versed helm]

I meant Fireteam Raven.

The battle of the crash site that happens in that game.

[potent cargo]

whoops

[unique hornet]

(It’s so silly, there’s far worse words in the games and books and the cursing policy is still strict here)

[versed helm]

I know. I know.

The actual Halopedia server is a good place to be. The link is on the main page.

You don't need to be an editor or anything, they love answering questions

[unique hornet]

I’ll keep that in mind, thank you! I should probably sync the Raven playthrough with my reading of Flood to give me an idea of the progression of events

Thank you again, I’ll make sure to join up!

[versed helm]

Any time.

[unique hornet]

Gotta get some sleep now, classes tomorrow mornin. Thanks for all your help folks!

[potent cargo]

Np comrade

[violet raven]

John is a forrerunner

[terse lava]

No

[versed helm]

Or What if he is the reincarnation of the Iso Didact

👀

[gilded mason]

Jcrrz pls

[versed helm]

Indeed

𝕀𝕋 𝕄𝕌𝕊𝕋 𝔹𝔼 𝕊𝔸𝕀𝔻

[terse lava]

Blood, why Jcrrz?

[versed helm]

Because

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c4/87/f7/c487f744eb8ed5381ef307d219d9733c.jpg

[astral dust]

I have a pretty basic question.
Do Spartans indulge on beer? In H5 Buck says “you buy first drinks when we get back?”
Also is Coffee still around 500 years later?

[versed helm]

SIV's probably do

And Im pretty sure coffee is still a thing

I think the UNSC even packs coffee in their MRE's

[carmine sleet]

Bad Blood features Buck and other Spartans going to a bar on the Infinity and coffee isn't going to disappear in 500 years. Humanity needs it too much @astral dust

[versed helm]

Coffee is Life

[astral dust]

True that!

[versed helm]

Coffee pops up an awful lot in the EU.

[sharp adder]

I don't really like coffee

[inner basin]

^ Same

[versed helm]

^^^ Same

Only drink coffee if I need to stay up

Though when you're out on a weekend camp, you tire quickly, so you need it

[sharp adder]

Coffee gives me gas

[versed helm]

Fair enough

Same for me and onions

[wintry pollen]

yo so what happened to the flood outbreak on delta halo? the game sort of just didnt tie up that end aye

[versed helm]

The Sangheili placed a quarantine over Installation 05. Given the Gravemind had already relocated himself to High Charity, what Flood remained that he didn't bring with him to the Ark were caught on the surface when the Sangheili glassed the ring's surface.

The Elites basically glassed Delta Halo. This destroyed basically everything on the ring, but also killed the Flood.

[wintry pollen]

oh sick ty, where do you learn that?

[versed helm]

Hunters in the Dark, it's one of the newer Halo novels

It was also referenced in the old Halo Encyclopedia

And to a minor extent in Ghosts of Onyx, where Voro Nar 'Mantakree manages to get the Brutes and Elites to work together in the middle of their civil war to stop Flood ships from escaping

[wintry pollen]

ty. wheres the best place to start getting into the halo EU?

[versed helm]

I started with the early novels. The original Halo novel trilogy are pretty good imo.

Start with Fall of Reach, it tells you all about Blue Team, the origins of the Master Chief, the fall of Reach

The new version clears up some inconsistencies caused by Halo Reach, so I'd recommend that

The Flood is a novelisation of Halo Combat Evolved

First Strike is, imo, the best of the three. Without spoiling much, Chief and the Spartans blow up a shitton of Covies and basically saves the day.

Ghosts of Onyx is really good too. It explains to a degree why Noble Team exists, by way of the Spartan-III program.

For reference books, I'd recommend Warfleet if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of how space warfare works in Halo

Apart from Hunters in the Dark, I'm not too sure about the new books, I haven't gotten to them all yet, so someone else might be of help

Warfleet is

Unbelievably excellent

Though it is definitely a separate conceptualization of how space combat works from much of the EU.

I've had that issue too

I think it's probably a needed retcon more than anything

True

What do you think of the plasma torpedo thing though?

From what I've read, Plasma Torpedoes are partially a physical object now, kind of like a massive plasma grenade

I think it's cool.

It differentiates them from plasma bolts

And aligns a bit with the UNSC's rhino tank

Which seems to produce a plasma effect from a physical shell

One of the best changes is that it allows UNSC PDGs to "disrupt" them

Which opens a lot of possibilities for stuff to play out in a more interesting way

Yeah that's a cool change

Like, imagine a UNSC-held city with a bunch of onagers and gun batteries withstanding plasma bombardment and forcing the Covenant to deploy ground troops to fight block-by-block and take out the defences.

I think that narrative is incredibly fun for producing ground combat situations and doesn't require any forerunner input to make happen

As in, the Covenant don't need to be searching for forerunner ruins or whatever

Just pure human vs Covenant action

I'd like to see that in a book sometime, or better yet, in a game

Mhm.

Definitely seems to have slowed down MAC slugs

Warfleet, I mean.

Been a bit of a contentious change in some of the circles I frequent

I like it because it lines up better with the games

And it accounts for the slugs travelling slower by saying that MACs can also be used to launch guided projectiles

Yes, I think that's a welcome addition to the canon

Firing a MAC at the ranges we're told in the EU would require so much planning and forethought it hurts my mind

Guided munitions make sense because then they can adjust their trajectory to counter evasive action

I mean, it requires planning in the instances where the MAC rounds don't travel half the Earth's diameter in a single second.

Glares at TFoR's SMACs

Hence, theoretically impacting with an energy output 1,000 times greater than the Tsar Bomba, the most powerful atomic weapon ever detonated on Earth in the real world.

No wait, it's not half the Earth's diameter. It is literally the Earth's diameter.

4% light speed = 12,000 kmp/s. Earth's diameter is 12,742 km.

That's preposterous!

That completely skipped my mind the last time I read TFoR

It's a real meme. It's towards the start of Chapter 31.

Left out an important digit there lmao

Is that the one where Chief is thinking about the planetary power stations for the SMACs?

And he thinks that 'Reach won't fall'?

It's Petty Officer McRobb just musing on how it's impossible for Reach to fall.

That's it

It's been five years since I last read TFoR

They could accelerate a three-thousand-ton projectile to point four-tenths the speed of light.

The wording is confusing. "Point four-tenths".

Point four-tenths? As in 0.4/10?

Yeah, which would be 4%.

But because a proportion lightspeed is displayed as 0.whatever c

The Encyclopedia and some Halopedia editors thought it meant 40% of light speed.

In fact, the Encyclopedia says they fire at 50% light speed.

That's why we ignore the Encyclopedia 👍

Yeah, I've seen some silly things come out of the encyclopedia

Like the alleged rank structure of the UNSC

Mhm. There's some memes for sure.

Anyway, point is, Warfleet is clearly not set in that universe, so we can be thankful for that.

Warfleet is set in the same universe as the games xD

Clearly the Encyclopedia comes from the alternate reality Red Vs Blue takes place in

The thing that bothers me a little - and don't take this as Nylund bashing, because he's an awesome writer responsible for huge chunks of the Halo mythos - is that Bungie clearly had a pretty coherent internal understanding of how MACs work.

Like, the battleclusters close to the Cairo in geosync orbit weren't in-range of the Cairo itself, hence why Regret was able to break through. This implies that their range isn't thousands of kilometers.

And the onager was capable of providing close defence for UNSC troops on the ground, as you see in Reach.

That's, like, a coherent scaling.

Agreed

Your smallest guns still serve a function, but your biggest guns aren't absolutely godlike.

Nylund did go overboard with the numbers imo

Anyway, I could rant about this all day.

But clearly I'm preaching to the converted, in Carter's words.

So how about this - you ever walk through the Cairo and just really appreciate the crazy detail they put into that station?

I've only just noticed it recently.

It is an absolutely beautiful map.

The whole mission tells an awesome and surprisingly sensible narrative.

It is, the mission gives off a great ambience

The map itself is amazingly detailed for what is ostensibly a giant gun

The part with Athens and Malta Station probably hit the nail on the head for me

Mhm. And the best part is, Regret's strategy makes perfect sense.

He dispatches his boarding craft to take out the stations before exposing his ships to fire from the guns.

He only tries to break through when it's only the Cairo left

And that's when the Cairo actually starts firing

Absolutely, Regret may have jumped the gun, but he wasn't an idiot

He was the most militaristic of the three, so it makes sense that he was tactically adept

Then again, he spent too much time with the Elites and kept jumping into things without backup

If Chief wasn't on the Cairo by near enough blind chance, things would've been terrible for the UNSC.

Though I suppose the Covenant could've identified that the Cairo was acting as the command station.

Monitoring outgoing levels of comm traffic and such.

True

Which brings up a question, how good is Covenant SIGINT?

Hm.

I have no clue.

They do love their jammers, though.

True

That's more EW though, electronic attack

It does indicate that they're on the board in the communications warfare game.

True

I'd suspect that they did have a branch working on SIGINT, probably monitoring human communications to try and find inner colonies and Earth

In The Impossible Life and Possible Death of Preston J. Cole, Cole got paranoid that the Covenant could triangulate Earth simply by sticking some antennae into space. He had ONI run operations to prevent that.

He wouldn't be wrong

Certainly ammunition for the theory of Truth knowing about Earth potentially very early on.

And going to great lengths to suppress knowledge of it.

Feeds into the larger theory that after Contact Harvest Truth proceeded to learn as much as he could and found out everything.

And was doing his best to prevent the Covenant from finding any rings.

And then, when they did, trying his hardest not to be in their firing range when they got lit.

Not to be, I mean.

Occasionally I just leave out very important bits of grammar

I was about to say that sounds self-contradictory, your edit makes much more sense

[grand lintel]

I thought Truth didn't expect us to be at Earth? How didn't bring much support

[versed helm]

That was Regret

[grand lintel]

Oh my b

My lore knowledge is just from the games

[versed helm]

Truth actually, mysteriously, knew the location of Earth before Regret.

[grand lintel]

I'd like to read all the books some day though

[versed helm]

In First Strike, the book that bridges CE and 2, a whole Covenant fleet preparing to attack Earth gets blown up.

And it's just like

Never really been addressed

Kinda triggering

[grand lintel]

mm

[versed helm]

It hasn't been addressed, that's for certain, like Looters said, a popular theory is that Truth knew about Earth and was holding back for some reason

Regret found Earth because he didn't realise that Erde-Tyrene, the Forerunner name for Earth, was the human homeworld

Truth accused him of jumping the gun, and probably ruining his plans

Though Chief probably did enough of that on his own

His plans, some might speculate, to secure Earth and bury the secret to the Ark.

[grand lintel]

A

[versed helm]

But when the secret got out towards the end of Halo 2

he was forced to go along with it to keep the Covenant together

Knowing that if he fired the rings from the Ark he wouldn't be harmed

[grand lintel]

Yeah I though he didn't realise

[versed helm]

Either way, he went a little bit crazy in Halo 3.

But it's just a theory. Part of Halo's charm is that it sets out to be mysterious.

And by "keep the Covenant together" I meant "not have all his Brute cronies tear him apart".

Or abandon him, etc.

He needed to use their faith to control them.

[grand lintel]

Wait he expected to live on the arc?

[versed helm]

I suppose.

If you buy into the theory.

Bit of a Thanos ending, y'know?

[grand lintel]

So he doesn't even believe in his Journey

[versed helm]

In theory.

Not for certain.

[grand lintel]

I don't see why the arc could survive

[versed helm]

It's outside the galaxy. The rings are designed to kill everything in the galaxy.

[grand lintel]

Travel far away from the rings?

Also just one Galaxy?

Many?

[versed helm]

Just the one. The Milky Way.

That's where all Halo takes place.

[grand lintel]

Okay

Thanks

The forerunners didn't branch out

[versed helm]

There were Forerunners who moved to Path Kethona, which if I remember correctly was the Large Magellanic Cloud

[grand lintel]

Oh wow

[versed helm]

They didn't branch out significantly, though.

[grand lintel]

So they are still about then?

[versed helm]

Some might be.

[grand lintel]

That's kinda cool

[versed helm]

I think they were cut off during the Forerunner Flood War.

The Precursors, the beings that ultimately sorta became the Flood however, did expand beyond the reaches of the Milky Way.

[grand lintel]

Lmao and they didn't look back

[versed helm]

So it doesn't really bode well for them.

Didn't Faber fire Omega Halo at Path Kethona to wipe them out?

I actually don't know. My Forerunner Trilogy knowledge is hazy at best.

I'm operating on second-hand knowledge as well, but I swear that all of the Forerunners are physically dead at the very least

Dead or a nonfactor.

Bornstellar and his lover supposedly survived and went natural.

[grand lintel]

'Natural'?

[versed helm]

Left their technology behind.

[grand lintel]

Hm

[versed helm]

Started a simple existence someplace unknown.

[grand lintel]

They might have the best life then

[hasty locust]

Didn’t some dip to another galaxy

[humble yacht]

yes, Iso-Didact and the others that were on the Ark during the firing

they went back to Maethrillian, reset the Domain, and then peaced out of the galaxy

[hasty locust]

So they could be just chillin out there today?

[terse lava]

No Only their descendants

Born and chant at least gave up their technology and lived as farmers

The others could be though

[humble yacht]

that assumes they didn't take vows to be the last of their lines

[terse lava]

I am only counting born and chant in that

[hasty locust]

Is a forerunner physically a lot tougher then a brute?

Like if they were to box

[humble yacht]

yes

[terse lava]

Depends on rate

[hasty locust]

Their like 3M tall right

[humble yacht]

forerunners have millenia of evolution on their side

i wouldn't be surprised if Librarian was super-strong by human standards

[hasty locust]

now picturing the librarian at the gym benching like 400 pounds

[humble yacht]

they could be like kryptonians

unassuming appearance packing massive power

[amber valley]

Isn't the personal forerunner armor also a source of physical enhancements, like mjolnir?

[humble yacht]

i'm sure it is

[terse lava]

Yes

[hasty locust]

Like 6X better then mk V

[amber valley]

i know it sustains them and lets them live for long

[terse lava]

Also can fix massive radiation poisoning

[hasty locust]

How is the didact 100 000 years old or more

Was he in some form of stasis

[terse lava]

Because he was in the cryptuym?

Yea

[hasty locust]

Ok thanks

[terse lava]

However he likely could have lived that long too without it

[hasty locust]

Lastly how are the flood in containment on the halos alive

[terse lava]

That theoretical from silentium was implied to be 1 million years old

[hasty locust]

Do they feed them live goats like in jurrasic park

Imagine that, some forerunner tries to open a zoo where you can see the flood

Lol

[humble yacht]

sporulation allows a flood cell to survive practically indefinitely until encountering a nutrient-rich source

[hasty locust]

But wasnt the whole point of the halos to starve them

So if they cant starve

[terse lava]

They needed samples to study

[humble yacht]

that line from CE is outdated

halos kill higher flood forms as well

[hasty locust]

Yeah i never got if they killed all life wouldnt the flood be life so its dead too

[humble yacht]

it was the first game

[terse lava]

After halos fire, the only thing left would be infection forms

[humble yacht]

I imagine bungie were still finding their feet with the lore and world building

[hasty locust]

Yeah thanks for clearing that up with me

I should read the forerunner trilogy

Idk, i prefer “modern” halo more then the ancient stuff

[terse lava]

This was further built on in the temple wraith, which comments that early zealots had to wipe out tainted relics

[hasty locust]

Temple is the yellow one right

[terse lava]

Yes

[humble yacht]

ultra > temple

[hasty locust]

Yes

[terse lava]

Eh I just love that bio

Anything covenant or sangheili related, give me

[hasty locust]

Halo 5 seems to have a lot of hidden lore in descriptions and such

Why did the sangheli not make a plasma shotgun

Like whats up with that

I guess the rifle was good enough for CQC

[carmine sleet]

Swords

[hasty locust]

Those too

Is there explanations as to some guns are only in one game

Like why didn’t the covenant use the sticky grenade rocket launcher thing after reach

Plasma launcher was it

Or is it canonically they did in 2, CE and 3 we just dont see them

[carmine sleet]

It wasn't thought up by Bungie in the games made before Reach and in the games after, it's just a weapon that was cut because 343i wanted to bring us other weapons

[hasty locust]

Yeah i know that but i meant in Holy lore

[humble yacht]

there is no explicit lore as why some weapons only appear in one game

[hasty locust]

Is it just one of those things where they did indeed use them on alpha halo etc we just dont see it

[carmine sleet]

It's quite possible that weapons that did only exist in one game were around during the other games but like what Chimera said, nothing states that those weapons only appeared during that one event and then suddenly never appear again

[safe siren]

Like the Falcon in Fireteam Raven

[terse lava]

Nope

[carmine sleet]

The Spirit of Fire brought them to the Ark, we just don't know who brought them

[lilac oasis]

@hasty locust maybe they thought the fuel rod cannon and regular nades were more cost effective. The covenant did have an economy after all

[hasty locust]

True

I wonder what said currency is called

[restive sage]

Wait I just realized what is in the life as covenant citizens

[carmine sleet]

Most likely they get up, have breakfast, go to work

[stoic hamlet]

Obviously they desecrate human homes and rip families apart, the children screaming as they’re ripped apart by Jackals while their parents are helpless to do anything except watch.

Don’t believe Covie lies

[versed helm]

i wonder how strong a jackals bite is

[hasty locust]

Strong

[versed helm]

Does anyone want fried Chicken?

From New Alexandria?

Moa Nuggets

But I hear Skirmishers and Jackals taste like chicken

ye but they taste like chicken that hasnt been cleaned properly before frying

[topaz iron]

Make grilled moa, more healthy

[terse lava]

@stoic hamletdude...

I have heard kig-yar actually taste like fish

[hollow meadow]

343's Kig-Yar kinda look like fish too. Am I the only one who thought their heads resembled pirahnas?

[dire moth]

they look more like Velociraptors to me

[astral dust]

Can ONI agents become Spartans.. I know Locke is one but is that against jurisdiction to something...also can a civilian become a Spartan like Olympia Vale..wasn’t she a linguist?

[carmine sleet]

If an ONI Agent proves themself, they would be allowed to becoming an S-IV, such as Locke

[inner basin]

@astral dust No, I don’t think any regular grown-up civilian can become a Spartan-IV (civilian children did become Spartan-IIs and IIIs but I don’t think that’s what you meant) as they haven’t really proved them self as such, and there is no way of telling their true allegiances, such as Innie sympathies and all that stuff. Vale was actually with ONI before becoming a Spartan too so...

[astral dust]

Ahhh. Didn’t know

[versed helm]

The baby pigeon Kig Yar taste like filthy chicken

The velociraptor Kig Yar taste like gators

[hollow meadow]

What do gators (Elites) taste like?

[versed helm]

Like a combination of chicken and fish

[hollow meadow]

Interesting

I can use their meat as onigiri filling

[versed helm]

ᴵⁿᵈᵉᵉᵈ

[stray holly]

are grunts edible

[versed helm]

Yes

They taste like lobster

[topaz iron]

How about drones

[safe siren]

Probably like earth insects, i guess

[versed helm]

How do you guys know what the covies taste like?

[safe siren]

I don't think anyone know for sure

But drones are Insects, and Grunts are crustacean, in a way, so it's possible that the tase is similar too.

Also, for elites i think the taste would be more similar to Horse meat, maybe Horse + Ostrich

[topaz iron]

We use our deductive reasoning

[still wadi]

unfortunate that we cant ask brutes, they know how covies and human taste

[fair hazel]

Musa saw that as a good thing. About allegiances etc. @inner basin

[gilded mason]

A great comfort for Spartans murdered during training exercises in New Blood.

[full forge]

also there are definitely people with insurrectionist ties who've made it to SIV

[safe siren]

Not Spartan, but KInsano was a Rebel leader

[humble yacht]

I mean, Isla Zane became a rebel after becoming a spartan

And so did Mickey, iirc

[carmine sleet]

He did, but Mickey also had family who had ties to the Innies too

[humble yacht]

I’ve never heard of a rebel/insurrectionist infiltrating the UNSC and getting spartan augs

[gilded mason]

That's literally part of the plot of New Blood, Chimera

[carmine sleet]

Aye, Rudolf Schein

[full forge]

And then Mickey decided to turncoat...

[obsidian thistle]

Which if I may add has ties to older media

https://youtu.be/VZYEey8PIDE

That specific thing to be exact

[gilded mason]

Oh yeah, CIA-

Where was it said that the Elite in Another Day at the Beach is SpecOps?

[obsidian thistle]

Oh still looking into that. Got to many people swearing by it for me to ignore it.

If I dont find anything by Sunday. Boof it be killed from the wiki.

[gilded mason]

Sounds good. 👍

[carmine sleet]

Isn't that Elite wearing a Minor's armour

[gilded mason]

Reminds me, actually. Heard anything on that "Elites' contact lenses" front, or is the trail cold for now?

Isn't that Elite wearing a Minor's armour
Yeah. Which is why I'm confused about people saying he's SpecOps

[obsidian thistle]

Still need to find Halo 3 evidence. But HUDs are a thing. Even if we remove the contact lenses those will deffo replace it outright.

[gilded mason]

Yeah.

[carmine sleet]

Like, I remember the Elite using active camo but that's not a tool exclusively used by Spec Ops, as we've seen Zealots and Stealth Elites use it. It's most likely the Elite Minor could've been granted access to active camo from a superior during the Battle of Earth

[hasty locust]

Or he snagged it off a corpse

[obsidian thistle]

But alas I still need to research "every" possible source

[terse lava]

I have heard that for years too. I assumed it was not a minor due to the sword and active camo. At the time the game was released, minors were not allowed swords if I recall. You never see a minor. Consistently wield a sword in-game outside of the dying one in uprising

Which....I am unsure if that can be used seeing as every dead body is a minor

[hasty locust]

He must’ve upgraded his carry weight and looted every body he could find

[terse lava]

But did he have enough room to carry his sweetroll?

[hasty locust]

Dang

He used to be a soldier like you...

[topaz iron]

Then he took a fuel rod to the knee

[light igloo]

maybe arbiter traded a low ammo energy sword for the minor's plasma rifle or something

[terse lava]

Well to pass the time a fun question

What did you consider the biggest twist with halo so far? ( not Cortana returning)

[hasty locust]

Hmm

When the gravemind set to chief: no, I am your father

Oh wait, wrong franchise

Great question though

Books too or just games

[gilded mason]

I...guess the whole situation with the Thel's faction allying with humans at the end of Halo 2? I thought that was a surprising aspect.

[hasty locust]

Yeah

Cause wth books it’d be when I figured out chief wasn’t the last spartan back when first strike was new

[terse lava]

Good point, first time playing that I was puzzled on by the marines lefg us alone

[hasty locust]

What about most predictable “twist”

[terse lava]

Having a covenant campaign..and no human killing, Just heretics and flood, and brutes

Or the old " humans are forerunner" thing

Though for the first one now that I give it some proper thought...biggest twist was being allowed to play as the covenant

[gilded mason]

Actually, yeah, I agree there.

[hollow meadow]

So... why couldn't the Elite get into the bar?

[versed helm]

How about this

Radical idea

We have a Covenant campaign which actually addresses the whole thing about, y'know. Truth knowing about Earth prior to Regret .

Getting real tired of that whole massive plot point just not ever being addressed by anything.

[gilded mason]

You had me at "Covenant campaign" 😏

[hollow meadow]

That sounds like it could be a good spin off

Perhaps have a campaign where you play as Thel Vad'amee prior to Halo 2

[gilded mason]

Eh, I feel it'd be a bit too restrictive. I dunno

Maybe a different Covie

[versed helm]

I've always felt it'd be pretty sick to explore the Covenant's struggle to contain the Flood on Installation 04

Might be the best option for a Halo horror game actually

[gilded mason]

👌

[hollow meadow]

Or perhaps playing as a lone Marine or civilian during the Flood outbreak on Voi

[gilded mason]

Or maybe a game detailing the Covenant's very first encounter with the Flood

[versed helm]

It's always been kinda ill-defined, but I've always imagined a sprawling battle being fought throughout the ring's substructure that sucked hideous amounts of resources away from Thel's fleet, allowing Alpha Base to survive for longer.

The Last Voyage of the Infinite Succour seems to contradict that.

But 🤷‍♂️ who knows.

343 loves playing around with information control to handle inconsistencies.

[gilded mason]

Indeed

[hollow meadow]

To be honest, Bungie never had much consistency with Halo lore to begin with. They just did whatever looked cool to emphasize that power fantasy

[versed helm]

I think that's a little unfair.

Bungie had their own conceptualization of things that wasn't influenced by the EU.

But they did think it through. Generally.

[hollow meadow]

How did the Flood infect the In Amber Clad and managed to reach High Charity? I dunno. But it made for a good plot beat

[versed helm]

They got aboard the In Amber Clad because it was literally parked next to the Quarantine Zone.

Not a stretch to imagine an infection form under the Gravemind's influence stowing itself on a pelican.

lol

[gilded mason]

Could the Gravemind have teleported a Flood form or two right onto In Amber Clad?

[hollow meadow]

Nah, that's a poor example I'll admit

[versed helm]

@gilded mason That is a very good point.

[hollow meadow]

I think High Charity was still near Delta Halo at the time Gravemind took place

[gilded mason]

Yeah

[versed helm]

Id go with teleportation or a hijacked pelican

[hollow meadow]

Probably the biggest plot hole-ish thing was Sergeant Johnson surviving Halo CE. The last time you saw him was near the crashed Pillar of Autumn as it exploded and being so close to it would have killed him.

[versed helm]

He also just uh, hugged an elite.

And patted it on the butt.

[gilded mason]

goals

[versed helm]

Johnson has his ways

[hollow meadow]

He knows what the ladies like

[versed helm]

😏

Point being, Bungie liked their jokes.

It's not canon.

[gilded mason]

Anyway, yeah, for all we know, the crew onboard were very vigilant for any aircraft trying to gain access to the ship, and IAC's fall was simply the result of them not knowing Flood could literally teleport.

[versed helm]

I want something set during the Human-Forerunner wars,maybe have ancient man get fleshed out more

[gilded mason]

Eh, I'd rather leave the ancient era behind.

[versed helm]

True

I wanna see what a servitor even looks like

Im wondering if 343 will Take the Story to the 2600s at some point

As to why

I think that's unlikely.

Like they've just gone back to a more OG aesthetic style, y'know?

It is but if they did maybe they could introduce a new threat

Going forwards again would probably mean that they'd have to switch it up even more to, like, indicate advancement.

True, but it wouldnt neccesarily have to look radically different, either way its just a random thought

An un likely one

But a thought

So the first time that mankind achieved space travel was in 1,100,000 BC,how did they even achieve space faring technology in that time?,Precursor influence?

[hollow meadow]

Possibly.

Though looking at human evolution, this does not line up with anything within that timeline

Either ancient humans were not really humans or this was just an odd method of trying to make humans interrelated with the Prometheans and Forerunners.

Honestly, I just thought the Forerunners resembled humans given how Guilty Spark referred to Chief a reclaimer, being a race that resembled their former masters though not quite like them and being like a Tier 10 on the civilization scale at the time

[versed helm]

Also,what planet is Solace set on?

[topaz iron]

Wait how can the flood teleport

[boreal bane]

@hollow meadow Handled that warning for you, saw in the logs what your message was supposed to be

[gilded mason]

@topaz iron
Gravemind can use the ring’s teleportation grid thanks to his capture of Tangent.

[terse lava]

Thought they used a dropship to enter amber clad?

[hollow meadow]

It's various theories

[terse lava]

Hm

Well humans and forerunners werenoncw one race, I wonder what they looked like

[hollow meadow]

I mean we saw what Forerunners looked like in Halo 4. It's probably not too dissimilar from each other

[terse lava]

Maybe, and while modern forerunners had usually six fingers, the path keotha forerunners had 5, and were shorter then even a forerunner manipular

[hollow meadow]

"Modern." Forerunners went extinct when the Halos were fired but I get what you mean

[terse lava]

They didnt die off

Survivors left the galaxy, of those ones, we know of at.least 2 who went primitive, leaving behind their advanced technology

[hollow meadow]

Most did. A few survived like the Didact on a shield world

[terse lava]

Speaking of the didact, he did comment to the librarian that while in the domain, not only did he listen to the forerunner ancestors, he did the same with their descendants too

[hollow meadow]

Maybe those lights on the surface of Zeta Halo might be Forerunner cities post ring-firing

[terse lava]

Well halos did have forerunner structures

No forerunner would really choose to live on a halo if it could be helped

[hollow meadow]

Depends. At the end of the day, Halo canon is determined by the hand of Frank O' Connor

Doesn't stop us from pondering on it though. 😛

[terse lava]

True

Though seeing the conversation above, would love a covenant campaign. A shame we never get one

[hollow meadow]

I mean we did with Halo 2 but that was never a true Covenant campaign

[terse lava]

First few were

But something with better plot would be nice

I guess one aet during the war works too

Though, think it would be too easy

[hollow meadow]

You know what would be cool? Am Elite campaign that takes place during the Blooding Years

[terse lava]

Wouldn't just be though a repeat of halo 2? Fighting other sangheili

[versed helm]

^^

[terse lava]

Hm?

[gilded mason]

He's saying he agrees with you

[terse lava]

Ah

Got used to just a single arrow for that

[hollow meadow]

What about a fistful of arrows?

[terse lava]

How would design a covenant campaign? @gilded mason

What about it?

[hollow meadow]

Honestly... the more I think about it, a Covenant campaign would be a terrible idea. What made the Covenant so fun to fight against is because you have massive enemy variety to tackle and overcome. If you flip that formula to where you are the Covenant, the gameplay loop would get dull as it boils down to fighting against guy with guy, tougher guy with gun, and the occasional tank guy with gun

[gilded mason]

@terse lava
I dunno lol
I ain't no game designer

[hasty locust]

How about this idea... you point and then wait for it you shoot

[gilded mason]

Though I think an RPG on ancient Sanghelios would be neato.

[hasty locust]

In all seriousness I think one of the best ways to have a covenant protagonist game would be as a fleet battle type game

Tons of enemy variations, something new and interesting

[terse lava]

Not a bad idea

[feral perch]

It could be more like Assassin’s Creed. Imagine you play as the Silent Shadow, hunting down humans, heretics, and failed warriors within the Covenant.

[hasty locust]

Also would be a power fantasy as you shoot, melt and glass your way to glory!

[gilded mason]

It could be more like Assassin’s Creed. Imagine you play as the Silent Shadow, hunting down humans, heretics, and failed warriors within the Covenant.
Sounds cool.

[hasty locust]

Yeah

[hollow meadow]

Yeah, a fleet game would work better as you get ship variety from both the UNSC and the Covenant

[hasty locust]

Then you could have some team mechanics cause didn’t they usually work in squads

[hollow meadow]

To some degree, yes

Imagine the squad mechanic in a Halo gane done right

Basically everything Halo 5 failed at

[terse lava]

I am now imagining a silent shadow game with republic commando style battle

[hasty locust]

^^

I was literally about to say that

[hollow meadow]

Me too

[hasty locust]

It’s odd cause halo 5 and RC had the same creative director but one worked and is one of the best FPS I’ve played even to this day and the others is... meh, I’ll let you sort out which is which

[terse lava]

The other is heresy?

[hasty locust]

Indeed

[hollow meadow]

Halo 5's squad mechanics fell apart in a lot of aspects. One might argue due to the nature of ally AI in Halo not being the best in general (Never let your friends take the wheel). Another argument can be made is that Spartan Abilities and enhanced movement ruined any sense of tactical gameplay which stunted the development of squad mechanics

[hasty locust]

Interesting take

[fair hazel]

i dont see the connection there

for abilities

one of the annoying things is that in the game, they do some annoying stuff, like walking slowly are your dying

nothing to do with spartan abilities, yet when they use them, its pretty cool.

although the gameplay didnt help people fall in love with the characters

[hollow meadow]

In previous Halo games, you never had the ability to quickly dodge or scale up walls with ease, meaning that you had to use positioning and cover to your advantage. This thrives well with squad-style gameplay and Republic Commando was using that same gameplay philosophy too

[fair hazel]

on higher difficulties you defeinitly have to use cover and so on... and abilities dont do thaat much there, not really no to your point

you point at an enemy for the mto focus fire, and they take their sweet time to start shooting it then attacking it then killing it

nothing to do with abilities right there

[hollow meadow]

With Halo 5's movement system, this throws everything out the window as your allies have to calculate for every possible variable with movement and position which leads them to acting slow and clumsy

[terse lava]

In halo 5's defense, human ai always sucks because they cant be too competent

[fair hazel]

yeah i dont think so trev

[hasty locust]

Also if I may add

RC was mostly cqc and not much vertical action going on

[fair hazel]

RC had contextual actions a lot too

[hasty locust]

Whereas H5 was a lot more open so having people hold positions in certain spots wouldn’t create chokepoint s etc

[fair hazel]

well halo in general, the levels in general

[hasty locust]

Yes

[hollow meadow]

I don't think you are quite getting the point here

[hasty locust]

Like squad mechanics would work better in like a halo CQC spin-off

[hollow meadow]

It's not that Halo's level design is bad, is that Halo 5 tried to hire a creative lead who primarily worked on a game with condensed levels and limited mobility

Squad mechanics in Halo 5 was already facing an uphill battle

[terse lava]

True

[hasty locust]

Let’s hope they either don’t come back or are adjusted to a more open environments

[fair hazel]

i think you guys severly understimate people's abilities to do varied games.

Big issue is responsiveness and effectiveness of AI

[hasty locust]

YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER

[fair hazel]

if they were more responsive and effective, it would be better.

[terse lava]

A pity it rarely is like that

[fair hazel]

actually go where they're told in a timely manner , dont take ten seconds to kill one grunt.

[hasty locust]

Take m I n u t e s

[fair hazel]

people would have enjoyed the characters more by gameplay effectiveness association

[hasty locust]

“Get yourself some bacta soldier”

^thats all we needed

[fair hazel]

too bad we didnt get to see super cool linda action for instance

yes the gameplay stuff for each character was nice but

[hasty locust]

Like having unique strengths and weaknesses for each character

[fair hazel]

imagine if each character had gotten at leaest one moment to shine

[hollow meadow]

They did

[hasty locust]

Imagine if blue team was actually not side lined 😆

[hollow meadow]

It was outside the game though

Big oof

[fair hazel]

we're talking about in game..?

[hasty locust]

Then why are we chatting in #lore-and-universe

Oh yeah no 30 sec slow mode 😎

[terse lava]

That's the problem, they had chances during the games and just didnt

[fair hazel]

because we are ? and, linda having a moment wher she just goes crazy with sniper, would have been amazing.

[hollow meadow]

They expected outside lore to do the magic form them

[fair hazel]

another one where we see linda's speed

[terse lava]

Even via cutsence it would have been nice

[fair hazel]

Kels

during cutscene would have probably been more effective

[hasty locust]

When chips Dubbo got more screen time in H3 then chief did in H5

[fair hazel]

Not really true spy

[hasty locust]

well gameplay time

[hollow meadow]

Halo 5 pulled an MGS 2

[hasty locust]

Also I’m all for some blue team uniqueness in cutscenes

[hollow meadow]

Except the story wasn't as engaging

[fair hazel]

fred is a pretty good marsksperson

he's got some charisma too, good with civilians i'd say, and his sense of humor, not a bad leader himself and 343 seems to have made him good with knives i guess

even on osiris

[terse lava]

Wasnt he already a knife guy?

[hollow meadow]

Hey, I need scissors. 61.

[fair hazel]

would have been nice to see in a cutscene vale interact more with the sangheili

tanaka, would have been nice if we saw her mechanical engineering skills on full display

[terse lava]

And of course, more sangheili interaction with thel

[hasty locust]

^^^^^
^^^^^

[fair hazel]

Imagine if Tanaka had to jump out of the pelican, grab on to it and perform some rapid repairs to allow it to fly.

while it's falling from the sky.

[terse lava]

A cool idea

[hasty locust]

Wouldn’t she fall out?

[terse lava]

Nah

[stoic hamlet]

That’s be dumb

[gilded mason]

That sounds a bit too ridiculous

[hasty locust]

Must have tough fingers

[stoic hamlet]

Way too ridiculous

[hasty locust]

Mission impossible levels of silliness

[fair hazel]

Ridiculous like being dead only earlier and hanging from a celing cable and sniping targets so fast you dont know who died first from a distance?

[hasty locust]

Well then you’ve got the opening halo 5 cutscene

[stoic hamlet]

You’re confusing two scenes

[hasty locust]

So nothings off the table

[fair hazel]

The opening halo 5 cutscene was awesome

[terse lava]

Let's not forget the bullcrap sniper shot which killed a banshee pilot

[hollow meadow]

I wanna play as an Elite named Tel Chadameme

[terse lava]

........?

[fair hazel]

Tanaka using her specialized armour in a high-stakes situation and showing off her skillset seems like a good idea

[stoic hamlet]

The “he didn’t know who died first” was from Ghosts of Onyx and referred to two guards standing beside each other.

The cable thing is kinda ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as mid-air flight repairs while outside the ship.

[terse lava]

Each one should have been allowed a chance to shine

[hasty locust]

But a pelican in free fall

[stoic hamlet]

You can do that but not be utterly absurd about it.

[fair hazel]

What makes it ridiculous?

A spartan of the calliber as tanaka should be able to do it, assuming it's not a MAJOR repair

[stoic hamlet]

No Spartan has ever attempted that

Even remotely

[hasty locust]

A pelican in free fall tumble

And tanaka opens the hatch shimmies her way across the side pulls out a wrench and fixes a fuel leak or something

[stoic hamlet]

But why not land and repair? Why present undue risk?

There’s no point to it.

[hasty locust]

Why is that getting censored?

[stoic hamlet]

What?

[hasty locust]

Or just ba il out

[gilded mason]

Yeah, I feel a better showcase for Tanaka would be a more drawn-out repair job that isn't under quite so much pressure, where a dialogue can be said while she works.

[fair hazel]

the perfect set up is there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0j51zmWHjs

[stoic hamlet]

I agree with Ostral

[fair hazel]

that realy doesnt have the same kind of impact

[stoic hamlet]

Adding pressure to a scene doesn’t add impact either unless done well

[hasty locust]

Erick do you know why ba il would be censored?

[gaunt oak]

There is an extensive Star Wars filter in place right now to prevent spoilers for the upcoming film, which includes some commonly used words and Halo terms. It will be removed in time after the film has released

[stoic hamlet]

You could do something with timelines and the like. They need to get somewhere important

Or something

[terse lava]

Why not both? Dialogue telling what she can do, Then later the repair scene

[hasty locust]

How is that wars? Oh wait nvm

[gilded mason]

The twin sister's adoptive father.

[stoic hamlet]

Have everyone else be like “I can fix it but it’ll take time”

Then have Tanaka repair it.

[gilded mason]

👍

[fair hazel]

show dont tell?

[stoic hamlet]

You don’t need absurd hijinks to make a character look good

[fair hazel]

worked for linda, and not absurd

[stoic hamlet]

But what do you get by adding the free-falling Pelican

Yes it is, that’s absolutely absurd

[gilded mason]

Agreed

[hasty locust]

Other then spartan paste

[fair hazel]

tension and continuation of the scene i linked

[hasty locust]

How would she stay attached to the pelican?

[fair hazel]

are you guys forgetting what mjolnir can do..?

how to move around freefall, we already see the opening cutscene of halo 5

[terse lava]

How about this, place the pelican in the middle of combat between larger vessels, similar to the repairs done during first strike

[fair hazel]

how to stay on it... guardian climb down scene

[terse lava]

That was an odd yet nice one

[fair hazel]

that was one of the coolest halo 5 moments

[terse lava]

Outside of traveling sangheilios I agree

[hasty locust]

How come when you jump you don’t go flying down though?

[fair hazel]

?

[hasty locust]

Like as soon as my feet leave the ground shouldn’t Locke go tumbling down

[fair hazel]

I dont get it

[hasty locust]

If you are using some sort of magnetism or what not to stay straight up while walking vertically

And you jump off said surface, wouldn’t you go tumbling down to the planet below

Cause you are no longer being held up by your boots

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, it can be done I suppose.

But just because something theoretically can doesn’t mean it should. There are other ways of showing something, IMO better ways. (No offence)

[fair hazel]

strong magnetism

[terse lava]

Also could say "forerunner tech prevents it"

[fair hazel]

free fall repair would be pretty cool to see.

[terse lava]

Prevents forerunners from falling off

[hasty locust]

Maybe

[astral dust]

How hard is it to kill an Elite for a Spartan? In the game lore they seem like not even challenging to Spartans. Are Spartans really better in 1v1? Or a Sangheili just portrayed bad?

[terse lava]

Depends on who

[astral dust]

The Sangheili or the Spartan?

[gilded mason]

Both

[versed helm]

I’m kind of curious. Haka from the short the Duel, appears to be wearing samurai-like armor.

Is that for stylistic reasons, or is there actually lore behind his armor?

[terse lava]

Chief had been beaten by a major, a commando, and was even with a ranger

[gilded mason]

Haka from the short the Duel, appears to be wearing samurai-like armor.
Artistic license from the Japanese studio that made the film

[astral dust]

@terse lava never knew that, that in the books or comics or something?

[versed helm]

That’s neat, I always thought it was like, very ancient Sangheili armor.

[gilded mason]

never knew that, that in the books or comics or something?
Books and The Package short from Legends

[astral dust]

Understood

[hasty locust]

What do you think would’ve happened if Zuka assaulted alpha base while chief was there

[terse lava]

Same result likely

With Zuka possibly killed

[hasty locust]

What if he won

[versed helm]

So is Haka as a character canon, but his design isn’t?

[gilded mason]

Yes

[terse lava]

@hasty locusthad he captured chief? He would have been heavily rewarded

And the covenant could focus on containing the flood

[versed helm]

I’m curious how Haka would actually look in the Halo universe, with like real Sangheili armor.

[hasty locust]

And humanity would be royaly screwed

[terse lava]

Actually

In regards to haka

He retained the outfit in the h2A terminals

So seems 343 made it canon

[gilded mason]

Sesa was feeling particularly weeb when telling the story