That’s not going to.....
#lore-and-universe
terse lava
....yes, how?
inner raft
yeah i still say i liked the plot for 4, but man 5 rubbed me the wrong way
quiet umbra
a potential story change is make Cortana logic plagued by a gravemind
inner raft
i just didnt want cortana reintroduced the game right after she "died"
terse lava
That's been talked to death though
quiet umbra
using Cortana as a puppet to commandeer forerunner tech is absolutely something The Flood would and can do
so making it all a plot for the floods return is a pretty good angle
gaunt oakBOT
quiet umbra
what did I do
unique rune
I'll be disappointed if we get Logic Plague Cortana
inner raft
no idea
stoic hamlet
Ah, there it is. Filter was just slow
gilded mason
@quiet umbra
F-word, my dude
humble yacht
don't use profanity, @quiet umbra
quiet umbra
well how else do you fix the stry in infinite
terse lava
We dont use such heresy here. We are better then that
Well...343 likely has ideas. I belive currently thr most popular theory was the rampant cortana shard one
quiet umbra
Flood return plz
stoic hamlet
No.
humble yacht
plz no flood, thx
stoic hamlet
Flood returning would be dumb
quiet umbra
dude it's been 12 years
stoic hamlet
It’s not the right time
quiet umbra
I'm ready for flood it's been 12 years since they last appeared!
humble yacht
actually it's been like 2 or 3 years, tops
inner raft
i am also in favor of no flood
stoic hamlet
^^^
humble yacht
flood were in HW2
stoic hamlet
^ yup
quiet umbra
yeah a spinoff, not even the same genre
humble yacht
go play ATN if you jonesing for flood
stoic hamlet
It’s not the time to bring the wider flood back in
quiet umbra
but when tho
safe siren
Whenever it's useful to bring them back
quiet umbra
exactly no one has an answer just "not now"
inner raft
also feel like it could easily cause a feeling of retreading
stoic hamlet
^^^
Because it would
Bringing them back has no purpose
There’s no good reason for them right now
terse lava
Yea, if they want to add flood, just have it be a firefight gametype
stoic hamlet
Just not part of the story
terse lava
Yea
safe siren
We don't know how the story will evolve.
For now, it could be a bad decision to bring them back, but maybe during the campaign they will be able to create the conditions for a coherent return
terse lava
Perhaps, but I dont see them adding them in as active combatants
A flashback to forerunner or ancient human times, or an early covenant encounter sure
safe siren
Or maybe hint at their return in the galaxy, but not directly in the game
Like, near the end of the game intercept a random trasmission that say that the Flood has breached containment or something else
terse lava
We have already done the outbreak thing with the original trilogy
Best thing would be sort of like mass effect, have some reminder of the primordial's words of the flood one day returning in force
humble yacht
sure
carmine sleet
Each Halo has a containment facility, but no one would want to release them so I doubt we'll see that type of Flood return since it would be too similar to CE
They're not just giant hula hoops?
humble yacht
no, they're God's own anti-sonuva… machines
carmine sleet
I mean, they could be both
lyric pecan
I have a question, In halo wars 1 we pass thru an unknown location, that was infested by the flood. U know, its probably a dumb question, but is that place located in the shield world? (that is something that i always questioned myself)
lyric pecan
yeah, i ended up searching, but anyways, thanks for the answer
but still, a huge infestation for a forunner planet, supposed to contain the lifeforms from the flood
humble yacht
the outside was largely infested
some flood managed to find their way inside through vents and such
terse lava
A battle happened around the world, you can see crashed forerunner ships on the surface
lyric pecan
@terse lava indeed, u can see thru the cutscenes
fair hazel
You know? i've seen people complain about the unsc infinity's name but... it just fits.
carmine sleet
It's a big ship and infinity is big so the name makes perfect sense
fair hazel
More than just being a big ship
carmine sleet
Like sure, they could have called it something else, like Keyes but the UNSC Keyes doesn't have the same ring to it and doesn't really fit with what Infinity is
fair hazel
But what kind of ship it is, what it represents.
humble yacht
UNSC Last Stand may have worked better
lyric pecan
@fair hazel i dont think its a bad name
fair hazel
Last stand, is like, a bit more of a gloomy name, for a ship that represents hope and the future.
carmine sleet
Last thing you'd want to name a ship that's potentially humanity's last hope is something like that. It wouldn't inspire confidence
gilded mason
I think he means what Infinity was back when they were building it
humble yacht
Now they are but the original intent of the ship was to be the final bastion of humanity if earth fell
gilded mason
Yeah
lyric pecan
@carmine sleet more desperation
humble yacht
UNSC 8 on its side
lyric pecan
UNSC savannah 2.0 or some random names a like
carmine sleet
Savannah isn't all that notable of a ship, all things considered
lyric pecan
just a joke
versed helm
UNSC Dawn Under Heaven 2.0
humble yacht
UNSC Get Off My Lawn
carmine sleet
UNSC Entropy maybe?
lyric pecan
UNSC dont Try It
carmine sleet
Since there's the whole connotation of time
fair hazel
UNSC Everlasting? Unending, Perpetuity, Aeon, Forever.
versed helm
UNSC To Infinity and Beyond
fair hazel
Huh, UNSC Forever
humble yacht
Ew
fair hazel
that sounds very unsc-patriotic type
humble yacht
That sounds like a draft propaganda
carmine sleet
UNSC Infinity War
lyric pecan
@fair hazel ||insurrectionist intensifies ||
fair hazel
UNSC Far Isle Fate
humble yacht
UNSC Lamb Sauce
lyric pecan
UNSC Mustard
fair hazel
UNSC Robert Watts Stinks
terse lava
UNSC light year? Captained by Buzz
humble yacht
UNSC It’s Also A Gun
carmine sleet
UNSC Now That's a Katana
humble yacht
UNSC Why Are We Here?
terse lava
Captained by Capt "church"?
lyric pecan
UNSC Just To Suffer?
carmine sleet
UNSC That's One of Life's Great Mystries
gilded mason
UNSC Team-killing Jerktard
carmine sleet
Also, I feel like that would be Grif's ship... But it would always be stopped at a place with lots of food, Ado
gilded mason
lol
humble yacht
@lyric pecan UNSC The Body I’ve Lost... The Comrades I’ve Lost
lyric pecan
UNSC Won't Stop Hurting
humble yacht
UNSC Kept You Waiting Huh
terse lava
Unsc thought you'd be taller
humble yacht
Or
UNSC You’re Pretty Good
gilded mason
UNSC Love Can Bloom
carmine sleet
UNSC Nanomachines Son
terse lava
@gilded mason...40k?
gilded mason
Hm?
carmine sleet
Well, I think we've achieved a perfect name, guess we can stop brainstorming ship names and just call the next UNSC ship the UNSC Nanomachines Son
lyric pecan
UNSC Captain got tilted By an ''Old'' AI
gilded mason
@terse lava
Nah. "Snake, I want to ask you...do you think love can bloom, even on a battlefield?"
humble yacht
CSO Played College Ball Ya’know
lyric pecan
i cant think of CSO names XD
gilded mason
Oh no
terse lava
Hm?
gilded mason
The name
terse lava
Yep, blame chim
humble yacht
Shouldn’t it be Senator’s Contrition
humble yacht
😉
gilded mason
Oh, I thought it was a reference to the Flood-worshipping cult
terse lava
Was to be both
gilded mason
Ah
terse lava
Was thinking he wa Gov for a moment
humble yacht
CSO Moon Wizard
Oh
Oh!
CSO I don’t have time to explain why I don’t have time to explain
stoic hamlet
Maccabus: “That was pretty Wizard, wasn’t it nephew?”
Tartarus: “wot?”
Maccabus: “I’M BRINING IT BACK!”
😛
carmine sleet
CSO We've Woken the Hive
humble yacht
Another gem
I know I said we found the perfect UNSC name already but
UNSC Jill Sandwich
hasty locust
Wot?
fair hazel
watching reaction of halo legends and
cortana being like, "There will always be warriors, and there will always be war"
Halo 5 Cortana mentality reaction type.
humble yacht
Halo 5 Cortana continues that thought with “... unless....”
spiral jewel
I'm not seeing anything on the wiki, but I wonder what Serin's reaction was, when S-117 was reunited with the UNSC via the Infinity.
hasty locust
Haven’t you asked that before donk?
spiral jewel
As far as I know, no.
hasty locust
I was referring to the message above, by: donk2339
spiral jewel
Oh
terse lava
She likely just gave a quiet "yay" golf clap, and went back to sipping tea
hasty locust
Then someone else did
Ah, cause then I remember thinking those guys were the dudes from bioshock
But now I know the bioshock bois are the bigdaddies?
Something
fair hazel
i wonder if we'll see gravemind give john cortana somehow one day
light igloo
why can't 343 just make a spinter cell like game with grey team
hasty locust
In the future
stoic peak
Why was Operation: RED FLAG aborted if the idea was to use Reach as a decoy anyway ?
light igloo
did it, they still tried to get it done even after the event of halo CE
but first strike took priority, and with fall of human fortress world that was reach, the plan was scrapped
stoic peak
Yeah but i am talking about when it got kinda aborted during reach lol
light igloo
he done goofed up trying to bring infected ship back
light igloo
john got ascendent justice tho that got destroyed during first strike
wait, really?
he got a prophet?
wasn't the prophet of the fleet already infected and killed by r'tas vadamee?
light igloo
oh
hasty locust
This one was on the truth and reconciliation and was the one who kept threatening Zuka
hasty locust
Yes
rare axle
Imagine being the arbiter and finding out you killed millions of people for no reason
terse lava
@fair hazelperhaps once the Created and eventual flood return are taken care of, gravy will reveal he managed to retain Cortana's mind somehow and give it to chief as a " you pass." The gravemind from legends did seem on the small side when giving the cortana chip to him
Perhaps a very weakened state? If that visual would be to taken literally
fair hazel
im thinking a moment in infinite maybe and tying in into CTN 0453-0
terse lava
dont believe I am familiar with that
Although, one could also see the gravemind giving chief the cortana chip as a "logic plague" thing
light igloo
there is a very high chance that librarian made a copy of cortana, or probably kept the original and gave chief the most stable rampart copy in halo 4
just a theory tho
terse lava
Fair enough I guess
gilded mason
or probably kept the original and gave chief the most stable rampart copy in halo 4
Why?
unique rune
a very high chance that librarian made a copy of cortana
And you say that because...?
light igloo
the forerunners had the ability to save a rampart AI or even defragmented human personalities,
like chakas
hasty locust
What if the cortana chip is cortana’s older sister ai thing 😮
light igloo
cortana's older sister was already 'killed' by halsey
terse lava
Yep
light igloo
the procedure for preserving a defragmenting personality, be it human or AI resulted in creation of 'Ancilla'
and seeing how chief and cortana are both result of eons of planning, there is a chance librarian would do everything in her power to protect them
gilded mason
Not them exactly, in case that's what you think
Just augmented humans and AI in general
terse lava
come to think of it? Have we ever been told how forerunners created their ancilla?
light igloo
yes
i think it was in the last book of forerunner saga
where a human chakas , is converted into 343 guilty sparks in order to save him
terse lava
That was the 2nd book
And that was only him, or at best a few monitors. Not how the ancilla every forerunner appeared to get
light igloo
true
could be something similar to how humans did it
they never revealed how the others were formed
light igloo
human AI were made by copying neural pathways of brain 'donated' by deceased
but again , forerunners used mantle and all that without understanding they were using precursor tech
so who knows
versed helm
halo is a trilogy
light igloo
mantle was the forerunner internet, was it not?
terse lava
No
terse lava
It was a knowledge base created by the precursors
gilded mason
Called the Domain by the Forerunners, though also called the Organon
terse lava
The storage of all of life's experiences the precursors had lived through
terse lava
Its ok
I wonder what started that old sangheili tale from their pre-forerunner worshipping days
light igloo
which one
terse lava
Was mentioned in Shadow of Intent, Vadumee was commenting on a Hercules-like ancient sangheili who was either stained through the chest attempting to save his uncle, or through the back by said uncle
gilded mason
Ah yes, Kel Darsam
terse lava
Yes, thank you
light igloo
i remember reading that, wasn't that the one where a prophet flees high charity with some remaining sangheili to find some pre covenant sangheili society?
terse lava
That's broken circle
gilded mason
Nah, that's Broken Circle
light igloo
oh
terse lava
cough best novel cough
gilded mason
Ye
light igloo
time to start reading everything all over again
terse lava
Huh, that's filtered
gilded mason
Yeah, actress' real name
terse lava
Wonder if kel truly existed
gilded mason
When is this filter gonna be gone
light igloo
i am still confused over multiple arcs, there were just 2 , right?
greater and lesser?
gilded mason
Yes, two Arks
terse lava
Yep, greater was attacked by a million vessel strong flood fleet. Most of the remaining forerunner population was sent there and died
Which still makes no sense....
light igloo
and the arc from Halo 3, halo wars 2 are greater arc?
terse lava
Mhm
gilded mason
What do you mean?
terse lava
Well tragic solitude was able to monitor the galaxy
light igloo
i remember something like iso didact retreating with the rest of survivors to one of the arcs just before the order to fire the rings came
gilded mason
Yes, Iso went to the Lesser Ark.
light igloo
oh
terse lava
In between thentome of the halos firing and halo 3, there was.no known contact between the ark and othenr forerunner areas
gilded mason
Wasn't the Ark checking in on some places?
Like 05 and 03
Kept asking for status updates
terse lava
Hm I am not sure
light igloo
so, installation 00 was lesser arc?
terse lava
Yes
gilded mason
Yes. The Lesser Ark
light igloo
the one used to make the orignal halo rings?
terse lava
No
light igloo
the one that was hijacked by primodial
light igloo
oh
terse lava
The primordial jacked zeta halo, last of the 30,000 km rings from the first batch of 12
gilded mason
...lol
terse lava
Plus never did anything anyway
gilded mason
Yeah
terse lava
When in the old lore
light igloo
retconned? when
terse lava
During the 2nd forerunner novel I'd say
When its revealed thr flood could choose to infect beings or not
light igloo
that's different
johnson was immune due to a neural disorder with stopped the infection forms from accessing his neural network
gilded mason
First Staten talked about how any sort of immunity or cure was contrary to how they wanted the Flood and took away from their power, then they had the comic "Breaking Quarantine" made, with the foreward saying that this is how they imagine his escape from the Flood going, with it showing him being able to make sure no Infection forms were able to have the chance to attach to him, and the Primordial saying there was no such thing as an immunity to the Flood.
light igloo
sure, he wouldn't be immune to flood spores, but he was immune to infection forms just because the way they transmitted infection didn't work on johnson
gilded mason
And then the Catalog, in an out-of-universe manner, stated that there was no way to impede the efficacy of Flood infection.
terse lava
Was not aware of staten saying anything, interestinf
gilded mason
Ye
light igloo
there was something like this in halsey's research in first strike
terse lava
Fun question, what life would you want in halo?
gilded mason
A Sangheili something-something
Oh, I know. A Sangheili that participates in human sports. Totally dominating the competition.
No way that could go wrong.
light igloo
i suppose they would excel at basketball
celest palm
Seams a little unfair.
gilded mason
Seams a little unfair.
Naaaaaah, they'll totally allow it
But...which sport?
Beach volleyball
terse lava
"Ostral! Didnt we warn you about you spiking the ball like that??"
" I apologize human, she claimed she was the best here and I wished to test her might."
gilded mason
lol
hasty locust
Wait, correct me if I’m wrong, humanity discovered the flood first right?
Waaaaaaaay back in the day
terse lava
Yes
hasty locust
What if the forerunners discovered the flood first?
Do you think things would go the same?
terse lava
Likely, seeing as that was the case before the forerunner books
maiden crest
Hey guys
rare axle
It probably wouldn't go the same because the flood basically started the human and forerunner war
If humans didn't get pushed into forerunner territories tensions wouldn'tve been so high.
maiden crest
Who is narrator in silentium
terse lava
@maiden crest the mainn forerunner characters who were recorded and the records were found by modern humans
maiden crest
Oh
terse lava
@rare axle well seeing as they were the first to encounter them in the bungie era, I dont see.much change really
cloud trellis
Hwy does anyone know the order i should read the books? I am interested in the lore. Also where can you "find" them
gilded mason
Read 'em in release order
terse lava
Would think most libraries would have them, and recommend release order
cloud trellis
no pdf's in the internet?
terse lava
What's wrong with good old books?
cloud trellis
Those credits are rare at war time 😏
terse lava
Ah, well dont have that problem.on sangheilios. But yes, most barns&noble book stores have them too
If there are any online, no clue
cloud trellis
Is amazon the best place to buy new copies?
potent cargo
Shame some of us live in a country where we cant enjoy free knowledge
fair hazel
let's not talk about pirating shall we?
You can buy eBooks on various places, mine is Kobo
cloud trellis
I like an the idea of a book collection
Might just order them from amazon. Not that fond of ebooks
terse lava
👍
cloud trellis
oh while i am here. Halo reach gives me the idea Noble 6 might be a ||headhunter||
Since he does tons of solo operations
Is that true, or is his career just a mystery
terse lava
Think before joining noble, he was used by oni as their personal toy to take care f problems
cloud trellis
not with insurectionists?
terse lava
Could have been used against them, and he did test out the sabre fighters
inner basin
Well Halsey did say he made entire Militia groups disappear (reading off his file), so I think that would suggest that he did indeed deal with Insurrectionists. We are however only using that one Vidoc (“A Spartan Will Rise”), so it doesn’t lend much credibility.
quiet umbra
You guys think prometheans will be in infinite?
It seems obvious that they will at first but you gotta remember both how unpopular they are and how much the game is being advertised as a return to form and a spiritual reboot (not an actual one)
humble yacht
They probably will be
quiet umbra
Best case scenario they keep them but massively overhaul the design
I think all their floating pieces leads to a cluttered, incoherent appearance
I don’t know how to make them look more visually in line with old forerunner tech but drastically reducing the number of moving pieces would help dramatically
Forerunner sentinels are quite bulky and obtuse, as is their architecture
keen canopy
I think they might be but hopefully just as a spice things up enemy akin to Brutes in Halo 2 and Reach, not a mainline foe.
hasty locust
Does anyone know what the tiny T-rex arms are on the knight
humble yacht
The Knights' main arms are attached to weapons. i.e. don't have hands. The vestigial arms would allow them to perform non-battle related tasks
press a button, pick something up
etc
hasty locust
Cool
Ive also always been confused at the watchers face
Like if its a robot why does it got a face
Crawler dont got a face
If knights were blue and a lighter grey with less lights and small floaty bits, and still a few floaty chuncks i think they would look more “forerunner” as many people have requested
They don’t really need a huge overhall
But it should also be important to look apart from the sentinels
Similar but not too the same
Thats my two cents if they were to redesign
sharp adder
Ok
hasty locust
Ok
carmine sleet
Crawlers do have "faces". They're just more dog-like in nature
carmine sleet
Intimidation tactic
hasty locust
Maybe
But weren’t they designed to combat the flood who you cant really scare
Ive photoshopped it before and replaced the face with like an orb eye as seen on the prefix? Armor and the monitors
Didnt look half bad, but yeah leas scary and more mysterious
carmine sleet
Remember their creator wasn't the most sane. Plus, you don't need to be in combat to be intimidating someone
hasty locust
True dat
terse lava
Well it was never said when he created the watchers
The crawlers were already in existence before he went insane
hasty locust
Whats the stand of robots in the halo universe
Like humanity has true AI but no robot soldiers?
That doesn’t seem right
humble yacht
probably because humanity will always believe that humans soldiers are better than robots
inner basin
Well at least during the time Halo is set
hasty locust
looks for a quote about robots to butcher
I got nuthin
Im glad there are no robots
inner basin
In the future they may try for further advancements so human life can be preserved and these robots are used instead, but I don’t think humanity has the technology to do that, and won’t for a while in Halo
hasty locust
I dont think they’d fit
You think if they beat cortana they might try to take control of the promeatheans some how
humble yacht
no
inner basin
I do wonder what will happen to the Prometheans though. I assume they’ll naturally continue to act hostile if they don’t have anyone like Warden or Cortana controlling them as such. Hope we get some answers to these types of questions in Infinite, which I genuinely do believe we will, but it’s fun to think about in the meantime 
humble yacht
i'd set them back to Guard Mode and lock them up in a shield world
we don't know for sure
but given his position, he seems to predate the Composers
Also he expressed disdain for other Composed beings, so that would be kinda weird if he were also composed
Comic/graphic novel
Monitors too
At least some of them
Like guilty spark
¯_(ツ)_/¯
inner basin
How would the UNSC go about setting the Prometheans to “Guard Mode”? I thought that could only be done by Forerunners as I know the Librarian did when she put the Didact in the Cryptum in Requiem
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
inner basin
Could you hazard a guess at least?
humble yacht
The alternative is to destroy them all which seems less realistic an option
Given that they’re not all likely to be in one place at a given moment
umbral citrus
i mean the knights probably don’t talk coherently as iirc they were submitted to decades of mega torture
humble yacht
Knights appear to have their own language
They were able to direct covenant forces well enough
inner basin
Darn. Got filtered
What movie filter word was it this time?
Meh, it doesn’t matter I guess. My point wasn’t important enough to worry
versed helm
Why did the Prophets move up the Brutes? They knew the Elites would act out; they had the best relationship between one another for quite literally the longest time, and the Prophets didn't want to ruin such relationship since they were already being blindly led by the Prophets.
humble yacht
Because the brutes were easier to control and asked less questions
inner basin
To elaborate on Chimera’s point, the Elites were also starting to have a bit more sympathy to the humans, wondering why they weren’t being folded into the Covenant considering how they were putting up such a strong fight (whilst being technologically disadvantaged too). I’m glad Elites did fair a bit better in the end over the Brutes though
As well as Elites (well SoS mainly) having an allegiance with the UNSC
It’s nice and wholesome in the end (imo)
hasty locust
I hope humanity doesn’t try to meddle with the prometheans but with an organization like ONI i don’t think they would pass up the chance for a free efficient powerful army
inner basin
Yeah my bad. The team name from CoD MW 2019 slipped into my head and I typed that out subconsciously lol
hasty locust
Ha
Didn’t humanity try to make peace with the brutes too?
I vaguely remember a comic with a meeting with humans brutes and elites or something
inner basin
Yes that was on Biko. There were a cultist Insurrectionist group that attacked it but Chief intervened (killing 3 guards I believe who were in disguise from this cult). ONI covered up painting the Chief as a traitor after that too
inner basin
Yes. I believe it was. I’ll link the Halopedia page too for reference as my memory isn’t the best - https://www.halopedia.org/Raid_on_Biko_peace_talks
There was another incident at peace talks on Ealen IV, where a traitor in the UNSC leaked the peace conference which happened before the peace talk mentioned above. I’ll link it in this message - https://www.halopedia.org/Battle_of_Ealen_IV
hasty locust
Thanks
I assume chief being framed makes more sense as to him being hunted so suddenly in H5
inner basin
I actually want to go back and correct myself. It was Ealen IV where the Brutes, Elites and Humans had peace talks, where on Biko, it was only between Elites and Humans
hasty locust
Oh, ok
inner basin
After a brief overview of the Halopedia pages I saw I got them mixed up
hasty locust
We havent gotten anything with chief that takes place after H5
Don’t worry about it, its fine
inner basin
I don’t think so
I had to correct myself before someone else did. Some people can be harsh in here if you make mistakes so I corrected myself first
hasty locust
Ah, ok thanks
Also, beast im usually fine with people making mistakes, its like a second nature for me XD
umbral citrus
bad blood - taylor swift ft. master chief
inner basin
Please don’t, stepper
hasty locust
Yea
inner basin
Unlike that Bad Blood, I actually like Halo’s Bad Blood. It’s a nice enjoyable story
humble yacht
Or maybe they were good and you’re just salty that they didn’t reflect the game as much as you hoped
inner basin
^ I can understand that viewpoint
humble yacht
Neither were canon because both could not exist at the same time
feral perch
One could have been canon
humble yacht
It was to represent the “what is the truth”
They played up the “who is the bad guy” theme of the marketing
inner basin
Turns out neither were bad in the end ofc. I assume if anyone played Halo 5 through, they would discover that truth per say at the end
humble yacht
It was all rather predictable in that regard
Of course Chief isn’t going to be bad
And of course the other guy was just misunderstanding the situation
gilded mason
Yeah
gaunt oakBOT
terse lava
A pity it couldnt br more interesting
lilac oasis
@humble yacht personally they shoulda stayed with the traitor vibe from hunt the truth as long as they changed ||the fact that they cleared him of suspicion||
I mean just imagine ||seeing the video of mc shooting up a human covenant peace talk|| and then playing lock n ||discovering the real footage on the glass planet|| not only would it hav been better portrayed than the bs in halo 5, it would also allow us to visit a glassed planet and discover ||that oni is worse than just kidnapping children||
Sorry for making it look like a classified document but theres some spoilers for hunt the truth
feral perch
There's no need to censor yourself for something five years old.
It's long past the time for spoilers.
noble fjord
Every time I play halo I'm just like "If the UNSC Infinity ever gets heavily damaged or knocked out... the UNSC is going to be screwed financially"
gilded mason
They've been having to take apart its sister ship because of all the damage Infinity has been taking.
noble fjord
Sounds like the UNSC's banks are having fun
terse lava
Meanwhile the covenant was capable of having many assault carriers.
quiet umbra
imagine if ONI was an enemy faction in Halo Infinite
100% plausible
I'm pretty sure in Infinite there is no UNSC anymore
lilac oasis
I doubt it. Theres no way the human race would forgo their defense force thats so useful on the ground
Its like the us dropping their naval force because no one uses ships for direct combat
quiet umbra
thats the thing though Infinite appears to be post-apocalyptic in a sense
Halo 6's big climactic final battle with Cortana happened at Installation 07, and they lost
in a sense we're skipping what was planned in 6
though it still will have happened canonically, 343 is forgoing the old script in favor of a drastic course correction with Infinite
humble yacht
Or the “we” that lost was just the small contingent of forces the UNSC left at I07
UNSC has been occupying that ring for awhile
quiet umbra
then how did Master Chief get there? It's pretty obvious he was in a gigantic battle
humble yacht
We’ll have to wait and see
quiet umbra
I'm fairly certain humanity had a big last ditch attack on I07 to stop Cortana and it flopped
humble yacht
Maybe. Maybe not
quiet umbra
also the date on Master Chief's boot up screen certifies that his armor was last updates several years after Halo 5
though I don't remember the exact date
humble yacht
So?
quiet umbra
and thats just when it was last updated, he's been floating for who knows how long
unique rune
Last updated in 2561
Not that long after 5
quiet umbra
I'm saying a gigantic length of time has passed from Halo 5, Infinite is far, far in the future
humble yacht
MJOLNIR has a limited oxygen supply, around 1.5 hours
unique rune
He was floating in space in the Dawn for like 5 years
quiet umbra
Halo 4 is 2556 right
unique rune
57
humble yacht
If we are generous and assume low power mode extends that time by 3x, he’ll still have been floating in space for less than a day
quiet umbra
and 5 is a year later?
unique rune
5 is 2558
HW2 is 2559
quiet umbra
so yeah it's been 3 years since 5 and thats just last firmware update on MJOLNIR
judging by brohammer's beard that he grew Chief has been out for a long time
that beard would take at least a month or two to grow minimum
humble yacht
The amount of time echo 216 spent in space is not necessarily the same as the amount of time chief spent
quiet umbra
more than two months tbh it's pretty thick
humble yacht
Especially if Chief was just floating in his suit
quiet umbra
yes but we can infer that the same event that stranding brohammer in space likely also left Chief adrift
unique rune
At the latest I suspect we're looking at early '62 in Infinite
quiet umbra
IE the battle
humble yacht
There is no reason to infer that
quiet umbra
we have plenty of reason to infer that
humble yacht
Brohammer wouldn’t hear the sounds of battle because space
A battle could occur miles from him and he’d never know unless he went to the window and looked out
gilded mason
Why would he just morosely float in space then if the battle wasn't lost yet?
quiet umbra
It's very clearly the aftermath of a battle from which brohammer is stranded with minimal power
yeah
humble yacht
Good for you I guess
I have my doubts
Given the limitations of how long Chief could float in space and survive
quiet umbra
why would there be two battles we have no evidence for that
humble yacht
We technically don’t have evidence for one battle
quiet umbra
it was very clearly a giant battle orbiting the ring
from which clearly cortana was the victor
or whoever they were fighting
humble yacht
Thing is
quiet umbra
I guess Brohammer was talking about the ongoing UNSC Infinity Hockey Match when he said "We lost, we lost everything."
humble yacht
When you look out into space in the trailer
The only debris you see is that from the ring
versed helm
Could he have been drifting in space for two months and stumble upon I07? We don’t know, I’m gonna go with him being a part of the battle of I07, but we can only speculate.
humble yacht
There aren’t broken ships floating around
quiet umbra
I mean it's space you don't stumble into anything in space
inner basin
But do we know how long Chief can last in Mjolnir GEN3 in space? It may be even longer than 1.5 hours of an oxygen supply (and Survival Mode may extend that duration even more again)
quiet umbra
for all we know GEN3 has some kind of build in cryo freezing technology
lunar condor
i wonder if survival mode is like cryosleep but in Mjolnir
quiet umbra
or some way to recycle oxygen like a rebreather
humble yacht
Like I said, even if we get generous with how long he could survive in low power mode, it’s unlikely it would be that much more than a day
quiet umbra
We're operating on asusmptions for tech we've never seen before
We have no reason to beleive 1.5 hours is some hard limit
keen canopy
Well we do
inner basin
That’s the main issue atm
lunar condor
considering ive seen halo 5 trailers imma just say theres nothing else to do but assume
inner basin
We have to wait until Infinite really
keen canopy
Because you can't breathe without oxygen
lunar condor
because you might see a trailer and infer 3000 things and then learn that the trailer had absolutely nothing to do with the game
versed helm
Maybe survival mode works similarly or exactly like cryosleep
quiet umbra
they've confirmed discover hope is the opening 5 minutes of the game
humble yacht
Well this particular trailer has been stated to be the opening cinematic
inner basin
I thought Discover Hope was the opening cinematic for Infinite
quiet umbra
it is
inner basin
So Phoenix’s point doesn’t really make sense
keen canopy
Cyryosleep requires a LOT of technology in Halo
humble yacht
That being said, it provides 0 context so speculation about what led to that point is all that can be done
keen canopy
It would be incredibly inefficient to place it all in a suit of Mjolnir
humble yacht
And I personally don’t buy that Chief could have been floating around for 1-2 months and then be revived
Gen3 or no
quiet umbra
Well brohammers been there for that long at least
humble yacht
Brohammer was in a pelican
quiet umbra
why would chief be stranded monthes after everything else happened
humble yacht
The amount of o2 he has for one person is much greater
humble yacht
Not to mention food and water storage capability
inner basin
I don’t think he’s been in space longer than Echo-216’s been nearby the ring. If we’re to go off when the tag designation lit up, he may’ve not been in space for any longer than an hour though
lunar condor
Heck im not even sure pelicans have like 2 months worth of provisions and oxygen, afaik they are not exactly made to operate in space indefinitely.
keen canopy
Lets do an experiment for fun, lets say gen3 finds a way to store triple the oxygen. 4.5 hours. And lets say survival mode triples that again, thats still less than half a day of oxygen @quiet umbra
humble yacht
Well the trailer suggests echo 216 is on its last legs of life support
quiet umbra
what we're presented with is that Brohammer has been stranded for so long that he's visibly lost weight and has grown a pretty thick beard
lunar condor
but well anyway they can just magic up whatever they want as to why the opening cinematic makes sense so its eh whatever
humble yacht
True
But I personally doubt that the UNSC is completely defeated at the time of the trailer
quiet umbra
it'd be cool if they were
I like stories with the guts to upend their own status quo
lunar condor
Cant say the underdog story isnt cool that we had going for the whole covenant human war
humble yacht
I like stories that make sense and have a logical flow
quiet umbra
thats part of why I'm real excited for the eventual Dishonored 3
Dishonored's last installment just killed god
lunar condor
but idk if i need halo to always be that story
quiet umbra
like, the heck's gonna happen now
humble yacht
If the UNSC were completely defeated before the start of infinite, then I don’t see how Chief would get anything done
lunar condor
chief is gonna go to sleep for 6 years near a planet and hes gonna wake up above a precursor shield world and then the precursors are gonna return obviously
quiet umbra
He's chief is that a serious question?
keen canopy
We already had a "Chief does things on his own " game
humble yacht
Chief has never done anything completely alone
quiet umbra
He's space jesus he can do anything
humble yacht
He’s always had backup to get him from A to B
keen canopy
I'm tired of Halo games without multifaction interaction and sandbox gameplay
quiet umbra
he spends the second half of combat evolved completely alone for almost the whole time
He's alone large parts of every halo game tbh
humble yacht
He gets teleported around by guilty spark for important bits
quiet umbra
except 5 and for the most part 3
humble yacht
And then Keyes plays an important role in the climax, where Chief was just barely too late to save him
lunar condor
yeah i remember that time where he left the first halo ring after its destruction and got back to earth all alone
quiet umbra
by word of 343 themselves Halo Infinite is largely hearkening back to combat evolved
and large swaths of combat evolve are very uhh
lonely
keen canopy
I wish you'd stop 0-100ing lol
humble yacht
Sure but for the story flow, Chief gets plenty of assistance throughout
quiet umbra
He'll get assistance in Infinite we've seen the marines already
humble yacht
Without echo 419, Chief would have gotten nowhere
quiet umbra
I'm not saying theres no friendly NPCS in Infinite
but broad strokes chief and the other marines are probably stranded
which is a very similar situation to CE
keen canopy
Yea we all saw the trailers dude
humble yacht
They can be stranded and the remaining UNSC can still be elsewhere
quiet umbra
again what they're drawing from
lunar condor
Fairly sure if chief was alone in CE he would be very dead very fast
keen canopy
And the interviews where they literally stated they want to evoke CE
lunar condor
the crap ton of ODSTs helped at least divert covenant forces if anything
quiet umbra
ODST's didn't even exist when CE came out thats EU
humble yacht
Yeah, forgot to mention that Fireteam Raven kind of craps on that whole “Chief was alone in CE” feeling
quiet umbra
again, thats all expanded material
humble yacht
But it’s canon
keen canopy
That's not a valid argument X
versed helm
Uh oh
humble yacht
And something to keep in mind about the potential for things to be going on around Chief that the player doesn’t notice
Maybe Chief Feels like he’s alone a bunch in infinite but off screen lasky is still flying infinity around the galaxy running from cortana
Or coordinating different events on the same ring in the trailer
Or maybe he ran and joined Lord Hood and Serin Osman
keen canopy
Anyway John is heroic enough without needing to solo the entire galaxy. Halo is always at it's best with large battles IMO.
lunar condor
I like that everyone has a role to play, adds to the depth.
versed helm
I might be wrong but aren’t the marines in the truth and reconciliation ODSTs with marine equipment?
keen canopy
Yeah that's the conclusion we kinda have to come to
lunar condor
afaik there were probably more ODSTs than marines on the Autumn considering its original mission
das what id think anyway
keen canopy
For now. (prays for Halo CEA Anniversary)
gilded mason
faik there were probably more ODSTs than marines on the Autumn considering its original mission
Nah. 800 marines, 400 ODSTs
lunar condor
ah i see
cloud trellis
why was chief picked for cortana?
gilded mason
She liked him
cloud trellis
Is that all? you were liked and that makes you a legendary badass 🤔
keen canopy
The Spartans are all legendary badasses
cloud trellis
Where does the lucky thijng come from?
humble yacht
Fall of Reach
keen canopy
Cortana and Halsey call it luck
cloud trellis
Not buck. i wouldn't say he is a badass
keen canopy
What it really is is determination and tenacity
gilded mason
Also, pretty sure it's really just a nod to the fact he's the player character
remote spruce
John is lucky but can't hide behind cover too well, crouching only
cloud trellis
that is his quirk
gilded mason
Yeah
cloud trellis
which game?
humble yacht
Halo 3 is the first game where Chief is described as lucky
But the Fall of Reach novel explains that way earlier
cloud trellis
I better get reading then!!!
Wait why is he called chief
and not by his number or name
cloud trellis
petty 🤣
keen canopy
He's also called John and Spartan-117 in the games quite often
cloud trellis
i actually don't know anything he did before having his beauty sleep
keen canopy
Have fun reading TFoR then! You're in for a ride.
cloud trellis
he is a hire rank then everyone in noble team
humble yacht
False
cloud trellis
what?
humble yacht
Carter was a Commander
cloud trellis
i am currently am and it looks confusing
It looks like 2 lists
but there is no indication if there are the same or diffrent list
so is cadet higher then master chief petty officer
cloud trellis
wow literally everyone on noble team outranks chief
Interesting
since he is a spartan 2
cloud trellis
but he glassed 😦
stoic hamlet
There are quite a few times in the games where Chief is he highest rank present simply by circumstance but in the books he more often interacts with Officers.
stoic hamlet
Fred-104 outranks him, as did Kurt-051.
Jerome-092 might, but it’s just as possible his promotion to Commander is an unofficial ad-hoc thing. Also it’s a little high, IMO
Though I feel the same about Noble Team as well.
quiet umbra
Chief is treated as a quasi-religious figure
you don't tell him what to do you suggest it
umbral citrus
I... AM ORDERING YOU.... TO SURRENDER THAT AI
stoic hamlet
He can’t disobey unless he has orders that supersede your own or the order is unlawful
Technically Del Rio was right to give that order. John was in the wrong there.
humble yacht
John put a friend before duty
safe siren
Yep.
I think he laughed a lot after the facts of 5.
"SEE? I tried to save us!"
stoic hamlet
He put a friend before the lives of thousands.
humble yacht
But without her he wouldn’t have been able to stop Shadow of Sundered -bleep-
gilded mason
Though he did say something like "Not while the Didact is still a threat." when he disobeyed.
umbral citrus
post-requiem: "i've had enough of military service the covenant was one thing but now we've got ancient gods and robots and lasers that put people into floppy disks it's time for me to retire"
gilded mason
He became a senator before Halo 5
humble yacht
I feel like the ends justified the means
safe siren
And he tried to frame Chief
umbral citrus
don't need to fight evil robots as a senator to be fair
humble yacht
Yeah well that’s what makes him human
safe siren
Remember that Cortana also killed the Infinity' AI.
She was dangerous
fair hazel
i like fireteam raven giving more feeling for CE
err, like, where there are other allies
terse lava
A thought just occurred to me. Oblivion shows that the hierarchs had several massive fleets prepared to go after humanity. They were led by super carriers yet we never once see one attack until reach. What became of the others?
hasty locust
Searching for the rings?
gilded mason
They were led by super carriers yet we never once see one attack until reach.
It could be that in most previous encounters, nobody survived to report their presence.
hasty locust
That’s smart answer to
Maybe they just never saw enough opposition to use one before that
terse lava
@gilded mason That was my original thought to come yet to me it seems they stopped being used. Otherwise there should not have been a single human victory
@versed helmif she was a target, yes
hasty locust
Doesn’t even acknowledge my answer ☹️, my thought was they probably did recon or something and saw how guarded reach was and sent one in, you wouldn’t use an M16 to kill a termite
terse lava
@hasty locustwhoops sorry man, a possibility, and perhaps a need after loosing the beacons. Larger vessel for such a long journey does make sense
terse lava
That's Oddly specific
hasty locust
Took me 8 tries to write “Ostral” cause of stupid autocorrect
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
So uh
Bit of quick maths for you all
By my calculations
The Cairo of Warfleet
Is about
gilded mason
Oh yeah, welcome back Looters
versed helm
1800000000-times less powerful than the ODPs of TFoR
Good to be back man
Anyways
So what I'm thinking is that when it comes to Halo's Naval combat
You gotta canonically divide it into two distinct interpretations.
The one encapsulate in the games, Warfleet and Mythos
And the one from most of the books
Just some food for thought
hasty locust
My brain has been fed
versed helm
I assume that when Warfleet said the Cairo fired a "multi-ton" slug at "several kilometres per second", it means a 5 metric-ton slug at 7 kilometres per second.
As opposed to TFoR's 3,000 ton slug at 12,000 kilometers per second.
But uh, even if you make the Cairo's slug 3,000 metric tones it's still 2938775 times less powerful.
hasty locust
I guess Cairo is just junky
versed helm
Well, put it this way.
hasty locust
Do you have the numbers for say, a destroyer’s Mac gun?
versed helm
Nah
versed helm
But I do know a Nylundian frigate shoves a 300-ton slug at 30 km/s
Which I can plug into a KE calculator
But here's something else to think about
According to the Halo EVG, an onager battery hits with 1.1 gigajoule of force.
This is enough to cause significant harm to an unshielded Covenant battlecruiser.
The Cairo from Warfleet, per my estimate, hits with about 120 gigajoules.
Is that not a fair scaling?
You can account for range by taking notes from Warfleet and knowing that long-range coilgun rounds actually have self-guiding capabilities.
In fact, the slug in H2A has thrusters on the back. You can see it beneath the armoury.
Chew on that
versed helm
It's become a fixation in the last few days
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
About 135000 gigajoules for a Nylund frigate MAC, apparently.
Now
I needn't tell y'all that this is
Wildly overpowered
Like, a single shot from one the SMACs over Reach, according to TFoR, is 1,032 times more powerful than the biggest atomic bomb ever dropped on Earth, the Tsar Bomba.
gilded mason
Gawrsh
versed helm
The Tsar Bomba was 50 megatons, the SMAC is 51625 megatons.
This, ladies and gentlemen
Is why you should ignore every bit of Naval lore prior to Warfleet and Mythos
At all costs
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
Well, everything related to weapon scaling
feral perch
I think won’t
unique rune
Those numbers seem a little overkill.
supple field
Well. Consider they are fighting the Cov . And weapon performance aren’t always at optimal. I think is a big number. But not overkiller
U never complain about hitting ur enemy too hard eh?
versed helm
I'm complaining about the fact
That the UNSC has superweapons that wouldn't be out of place for the forerunners.
At least, did.
Warfleet is an obvious retcon of the way Naval combat in Halo works. It's far superior in every facet.
supple field
🤔 I see
versed helm
If you want big numbers, sub 7 km/s and 5 tons for 25,200 km/h and 5,000 kg.
Sounds better, right? xD
sharp adder
well a super mac could 1 hit any cove or unsc ship i thik nit sure about a supr carrier though
supple field
Halo lore does takes a lot of effort to understand. Ever since fall of reach and the game. It has been difficult to pin a exact answer for a reasonable explain
sharp adder
ok
supple field
Emmm. Here is a question Thoe. Maybe. Just maybe. Mac round power can be adjusted or fire prematurely?
sharp adder
yes they can be half charged and stil be fired
supple field
Like Mac authorized on surface
Maybe that could be part of the reason the numbers are super super off?
versed helm
The problem is
The Cairo can also one-shot a Covenant capital ship. Johnsons says so.
sharp adder
true
versed helm
So why build a weapon anywhere from 2938775 to a whopping 1800000000 times more powerful?
OR more pertinently
meager delta
Which arbiter caused the arbiter rank to be a mark of shame ? @me if you have the answer
versed helm
Why would a force that can build the weapon that's 2938775 to 1800000000 times more powerful build the Cairo
And the answer is
It probably didn't
hence, we have two separate conceptualizations.
One where a concentrated 51625 megatons is sufficient for an ODP expected to kill Covenant capital ships
And one where a comparatively paltry 100 to at most 73500 gigajoules (if you assume that the Cairo's slug is ridiculously, unbelievably dense for its size) is sufficient.
73500 gigajoules is 0.017566922 megatons, by the way.
So even though it seems way bigger than 100 gigajoules, and it is, it's still tiny compared to what Nylund said of the Reach ODPs.
copper wigeon
Marvelous
humble yacht
mark of shame and Arbiter position are two separate things
copper wigeon
@meager delta (btw Fal 'Chavamee is the name of that arbiter, his story is shown in The Duel in halo legends.)
humble yacht
not necessarily related
meager delta
Thanks
terse lava
Something I've found puzzling about assault carriers due to war fleet. The living quarters for the perminent crew Are extremely close to the main excavation Beam. Can anyone think on why that would be?
hasty locust
Don’t have to pay for heat?
versed helm
@terse lava Think of the excavation beam less like a weapons system, and more like a utility system.
When it's in operation, the ship isn't supposed to be in seriously dangerous circumstances.
Only the placement of the actual weapons really matters for combat stresses (heat, in this instance). Everything else can just fit in neatly.
terse lava
Maybe
fair hazel
why would it be a problem?
versed helm
Yeah.
I don't imagine heat management being much of a worry for the Covenant at all
It barely is for humans
terse lava
I simply found it an odd curiosity
I guess just the location on such a large vessel felt odd
Of all places you put the living quarters on the bottom tip of the nose next to the excavation beam
versed helm
Out of curiosity,where did the artists for ODST get the inspiration for the Coastal Highway in New Mombasa?
Because i love the design of it
keen canopy
Can't find anything on it @versed helm , you could try watching the ODST Vidocs and see if they mention it but I don't recall anything.
terse lava
Could have just been highway coastlines from around the world
versed helm
True
versed helm
I ain't gonna lie,i'm surprised that the Elites didn't just take a fleet to Doisac and just glass the planet during the Great Schism
terse lava
Likely couldn't, either not enough vessels, or the san shyuum gave the brutes their own fleet
Though yes, the planet's populace appears to be fine according to warfleet. 12 billion
tacit helm
I’m surprised the brute ships did not immediately start glassing planets when they got to them
They are a very aggressive species and the immediate destruction from the glassing beam would bring instant victory
inner basin
I feel like the Brutes like taking ground assaults. They like going planet side and battering their enemies. They aren’t cowards per say and just glass from orbit where they’re more safe, but they also aren’t very intelligent (compared to the Elites).
remote spruce
they like trophies and goodies too
inner basin
That could also be it, considering how the Brutes and Elites were locked in war with each other. We saw this kinda incident happen over Tribute. The civilians and military personnel alike just watched on as the Covenant blockade took more interest in killing each other than glassing the planet, and even took so little interest in destroying human ships that were trying to slip past their blockade and escape the planet, I assume some did because the Covenant were so distracted trying to kill each other
terse lava
True, although halo had just been found after 3400 years of looking. Glassing a human world seems pretty trivial at that point. Figured the reason the covenant above tribute were doing their duty so lackluster was likly due to them doing prayers, preaching, etc
sharp adder
I found that brutes actually admire the craft man's ship of human weapons some elites did to
quiet umbra
Brute weapons are largely just a brutalist exaggeration of human weapons
intellectually however humans are arguably smarter than elites so naturally they run circles around the brutes
versed helm
I don't really think that's true.
I think humans certainly have a more academically-orientated culture
But that's primarily because the prophets more or less took on all those responsibilities in the Covenant
And left the elites to focus on nothing but the art of warfare
The truth about firearms design is really that, no matter how sophisticated you are beyond a certain point, everything's a trade-off.
At least in the Halo universe.
gilded mason
I think the best option is to simply fire arms
versed helm
Every weapon in Halo is a balance of reliability, simplicity, range, accuracy, ammunition, power consumption, and terminal effect.
Human and brute weapons tend to prioritize simplicity and reliability, with a steady balance over the others.
Most Covenant weapons dive all-in on terminal effect.
A plasma rifle's accuracy and range are limited by its lower muzzle velocity, but the bolts are unbelievably lethal.
On the other hand, an MA5 has very good accuracy and range (yes, MA5s are supposed to have long range), but it's simplistic and it doesn't use plasma bolts so it lacks terminal effect.
Brute weapons are somewhere between, mostly.
It befits their station and role.
fair hazel
Well. Forerunner weapons a trade off?
quiet umbra
I remember Cortana in the EU saying that while in theory covenant tech is undeniably more advanced in practice human technology is more desirable
I beleive her exact words for covenant technology was "imitative, not innovative"
gilded mason
God, that thing
versed helm
Right. The Covenant learned off Forerunner ruins.
They were propelled to extreme technological heights over a relatively short span of time.
quiet umbra
they have very stunted and incongruous tech development because it's been entirely reverse engineered from forerunner tech they largely don't understand
fair hazel
I really don’t like it being referred to as EU.
versed helm
Their mentality was very much "don't mess with it! It works!"
Plus, lack of AI means extremely complex bits of tech were sometimes un-optimised on the software end.
quiet umbra
every piece of human technology by comparison was the result of unassisted labor and precision crafted to serve a maximum tactical and utilitarian purpose
fair hazel
Well, not every piece.
versed helm
But there's only so many things you can actually stick on an infantry soldier.
fair hazel
Especially in recent times.
quiet umbra
simply put humanity has full control and full proficiency over every piece of tech they have because it's their tech
versed helm
If you want a real representation of technological disparity, look at the ships.
quiet umbra
I mean they closed the gap enough to actually win the war
so obv they were in fact preferable
fair hazel
Also post war humanity are sorta being careful with advancing tech and so on, because they want to understand things.
versed helm
The thing that "won the war" was a cascade of immense events set into motion at the end of the Forerunner Flood war xD
gilded mason
Funny thing, Spartan Field Manual notes that the whole "imitative, not innovative" thing is a bit of a misnomer, and that they've actually improved on Forerunner designs in some areas.
quiet umbra
I mean yeah humanity's survival was more or less a deus ex machina
space jesus saved us
versed helm
I often say the Battle of Installation 04 could've been cut out of the story and nothing much would change in Halo 2
But I was dumb
And forgot that Vadam's disgrace is one of the most important plot points in the setting
Oops
quiet umbra
prophet of regret would have still plunged the covenant into civil war with his death
so kind of yeah
assuming master cheif still kills him
versed helm
Thel was the centrepoint of the Schism, though. It anchored around him.
versed helm
If he wasn't present, it could've gone very differently.
quiet umbra
but it would likely still happen
it's like forgive my comparison
WW2 without hitler
war was largely inevitable
outcome totally different without him
versed helm
I think the fact that the Schism panned out with humanity still alive and the rings not fired is largely down to Thel
You do have a point, though
fair hazel
I’m not sure that qualifies as deux ex machins.
quiet umbra
I mean for lack of a better term Master Chief is akin to divine intervention
a legendary hero quantifiable only by religious myth
fair hazel
Also which page ostral??
gilded mason
Also which page ostral??
193
versed helm
The catalyst of WW2 was Germany's desperation. Another demagogue could've instilled a different ideology and a conflict would've occurred, but not the same conflict.
Is that what you're saying, X?
fair hazel
Uh, that seems to be your interpretation of it.. but doesn’t mean that’s quite how it is
quiet umbra
The context of the conflict could have ben radically different, perhaps even different factions
versed helm
I think they're an indication.
quiet umbra
made a rematch inevitable
versed helm
I think it's fair to say that the Covenant would've refined plasma weapons
versed helm
Even if it's just because the forerunners were more preoccupied with systems of greater overall potential.
It does that sometimes
Watch your language
And other key phrases get filtered too
fair hazel
Read the passage. I think there’s ways of reading into it.
quiet umbra
"Versailles simultaneous humiliation of the German state and it's inability to properly defang it made a rematch inevitable"
there
gaunt oakBOT
versed helm
SIGH
gilded mason
When is that going to be, Erick.
fair hazel
As in, just straight up better than sentinel beam and what forerunners could make?
versed helm
B u t t w a l k e r
fair hazel
When is whay going to be.
quiet umbra
it both humilated germany, gave them an ethnic scapegoat, and also didn't place enough restrictions to prevent WW2
gilded mason
When is that incredibly silly filter going away
versed helm
Didn't even get a gottem
fair hazel
Or, innovations as in, it took sentinel beam and innovated by adding things?
quiet umbra
so yeah imo WW2 was a forgone conclusion due to versailles just being a bad treaty
fair hazel
I don’t know.
versed helm
Clearly it's been too long, Ostral
gilded mason
lol
fair hazel
Sort of pushing things past what they’re originally meant to?
quiet umbra
WW1 was kind of a foregone conclusion too sad to say
Ferdinand's assassination was the catalyst not the root cause
fair hazel
That I do not know.