Uh yeah and what did he say that you think make him right now ?
#lore-and-universe
dim imp
tepid lynx
wait have you read it?
tepid lynx
ok never mind then
carmine sleet
I highly recommend looking into Orwell
carmine sleet
In the Grunty shaped hole
tepid lynx
running away
carmine sleet
Seriously though, YapYap's just a Grunt that rebelled against Atriox on the Ark who has exaggerated allot of his own exploits
tepid lynx
Little people first!
cerulean timber
carmine sleet
You didn't give them a chance to respond to what you wanted to talk about
pulsar ore
that's a quick way to describe 'em š
slow crag
Lol
carmine sleet
There's also two ranks, Honour Guard and Lights of Sanghelios
carmine sleet
Basically, it's the official name for the Honour Guard Ultras
slow crag
Mhm
polar elm
Does anyone know if I can find any first hand experiences from the ARG players? They seem fascinating in the way they tie in to the games but it's hard to get a feel for them just by reading the Halopedia pages.
I had another topic of discussion in mind as well. I'm very behind on the lore so I hope you understand the context of my question. Basically, pre 343, we didn't know much about the Forerunners apart from the lore tidbits we got in expanded media. They mostly invented the plot devices for the Halo universe in the form of the Installations. They were shrouded in an air of mystery and whatever bits and pieces we were fed, like Shield Worlds and Crystals and other artifacts, their reveals added a lot of excitement and more mystery into the mix which gave us lots of room to speculate. I am thoroughly enjoying this phase and certainly looking to dive deeper into the lore and learning about the mystery about the Forerunners starting from the MCC. What I want to know is more along the lines of personal opinions of y'all and I've tried breaking down my questions.
- Did you guys enjoy that era more or the current era?
- Has the way the lore expanded post Bungie been good, better or worse than you expected/hoped for?
- Did you prefer the Forerunners being an unsolved mystery rather than their goals and motives being laid out in subsequent media?
Sorry about the wall of text š
Also, if possible, avoid spoilers Halo 3 onwards. I've been waiting more than a decade to Finish the Fightā¢
tepid lynx
A DECADE WHAT!! HOW?
feral perch
Now that Iāve listened to Halo: Cryptum, I definitely know that I prefer the era of exposition on Forerunner culture and general motivation.
It would perhaps be lazy to keep going forward with no thought given to these very important pieces of the grand game.
polar elm
@tepid lynx : I believe H3 was 2007? And I'm playing it next year so yep, more than a decade.
tepid lynx
... did you play halo 4
feral perch
He probably does not have a console.
polar elm
Nope. Going through the whole thing sequentially.
@feral perch, pretty obvious I suppose.
humble yacht
When H3 gets closer to coming out on PC, we'll probably ask people to refrain from recounting specific story elements, but until then, it's unrealistic to ask people not to talk about Halo 3
or any of the halos, for that matter
tepid lynx
I totally forgot about Halo:MC coming out on pc.
polar elm
I'm specifically asking to refrain for the context of "this discussion" only. Of course I know it's unrealistic.
I do have a passing familiarity with other elements of the lore but I try to avoid any depth.
feral perch
Have you read The Fall of Reach?
tepid lynx
yup
polar elm
I'm up at Cole Protocol.
feral perch
I see.
polar elm
The Reddit wiki suggested reading Contact Harvest and Cole Protocol prior to Halo 3 so here I am.
tepid lynx
i'd read first strike as well.
polar elm
And well, I'll admit, this stuff is brilliant.
I should clarify, I'm going through everything in release order so I've read First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.
tepid lynx
ok
polar elm
Hence the long and detailed question
tepid lynx
ah
polar elm
Your thoughts?
tepid lynx
to be honest I miss Bungie
feral perch
I donāt. Bungieās way of handling lore was awful.
polar elm
Also, brilliant is an understatement. To quote Sam-034, "I think I'm in love."
tepid lynx
Halo 2 was good.
feral perch
You know that Halo: Reach screws up the titular fall of Reach established by the book, right?
tepid lynx
also what was S034 referring to?
polar elm
Yes, well aware. I'll be looking into that next month.
feral perch
Bungie did that because their policy was game canon > everything else.
Which is absolute garbage.
He was referring to Mjolnir, @tepid lynx
polar elm
Err well, I can understand that from a creative standpoint.
tepid lynx
well at least they didn't almost kill the franchise.
polar elm
IIRC, it was Mark IV.
feral perch
343i have never almost killed the franchise.
deep pewter
Neither has almost killed the franchise, but canon should be canon
tepid lynx
cough Halo 5 cough
deep pewter
Halo cough 5 cough didnāt cough so cough badly cough
feral perch
Halo 5 singlehandedly revived the competitive scene
tepid lynx
?
feral perch
It has the best competitive multiplayer imo
tepid lynx
fine I just miss splitscreen
feral perch
Me too. Halo Infinite has that covered, though.
deep pewter
Having everything be canon is a better system though, varying levels of canon is just confusing
tepid lynx
Thank god
polar elm
The major difference I've noted is that fans seem to be split on the direction of the story.
feral perch
343i got the split screen message loud and clear
tepid lynx
also Halo 5 barely focused on the Chief.
deep pewter
They spent years on revitalizing the engine to make it possible, so they definitely got the message
feral perch
Halo 5 had a very mediocre story. I donāt like it. But we can only move forward from here.
tepid lynx
3 missions!
polar elm
From what I've played so far, Bungie has done a decent job handling the story.
tepid lynx
3!
deep pewter
So?
tepid lynx
main character!
humble yacht
H4 turned Chief into an actual character as far as game depictions go
which was nice
tepid lynx
point
dim imp
I found the change a bit too quick
polar elm
That was an issue that existed outside the extended media. In the books, he had decent characterisation.
tepid lynx
also a good point
deep pewter
John is a character, not necessarily a main one
polar elm
Just a little off course in The Flood, but otherwise it seemed okay.
tepid lynx
WHAT! @deep pewter
dim imp
Not a main character in Reach š
gilded mason
Nathan is correct.
feral perch
While technically true, he is expected to be the main character in mainline Halo games.
tepid lynx
THANK YOU!
polar elm
I can understand other characters being focused on, but I agree with Stonewall's stance.
tepid lynx
ditto
polar elm
It started with his journey.
tepid lynx
point
deep pewter
The baggage that is the expectation for John to head all mainline Halo games will have to be shed at some point
feral perch
Is that a good thing? Well, who am I to say?
dim imp
MC is a second character in H5 š
gilded mason
The baggage that is the expectation for John to head all mainline Halo games will have to be shed at some point
Indeed
feral perch
There are plenty of good characters in Halo.
dim imp
Like Johnson
polar elm
Oh dear. Not the filter again.
tepid lynx
true!
dim imp
343 Guilty Spark is still alive
gilded mason
No Spartan.
polar elm
ODST and HW are pretty good by the looks of it too.
feral perch
Or Halo 5ās version of- shut the frick up ostral u Sangheili lover
tepid lynx
@dim imp Can he just die already
dim imp
Plot disagrees
feral perch
pouts in Spartan
deep pewter
Vale or Locke wouldnāt be bad playable characters
polar elm
Halo has an abundance of characters and it's enjoyable.
dim imp
I liked Yayap
feral perch
We need playable Moa
gilded mason
Definitely not Vale, please.
dim imp
But Yayap died š¦
deep pewter
I donāt see anything wrong with her
tepid lynx
same
polar elm
I liked Lighter Than Some and Dadab a lot too.
tepid lynx
ditto
gilded mason
Not really a fan of her backstory, and I don't like the implications of her use.
tepid lynx
point
dim imp
The problem with her ? I don't like her (don't dislike her neither) because we don't really learn much about her or at least in a poor way in H5 campaign
And I don't want to read the books to understand what's going on in the game
tepid lynx
point
humble yacht
But when we played CE for the first time, what did we learn about Chief as a character aside from heās good at killing aliens?
polar elm
BTW guys, are there any other places I could/should ask that long question to get some more discussion? Chat doesn't seem like the right medium.
deep pewter
Iāll never understand why people take such issue with having to read the books with 5s characters and no one else
humble yacht
Waypoint forums, @polar elm
polar elm
Thanks!
humble yacht
There is a section on Universe
gilded mason
Or r/halostory, I guess.
dim imp
As I see it, MC was supposed to just be a badass machine with no real character back in the first games
polar elm
But when we played CE for the first time, what did we learn about Chief as a character aside from heās good at killing aliens?
Scant little, but the world building was good.
As I see it, MC was supposed to just be a badass machine with no real character back in the first games
And thank God this changed.
tepid lynx
ditto
agile dragon
^^
deep pewter
Johns character being ignored by Bungie is a travesty
gilded mason
But when we played CE for the first time, what did we learn about Chief as a character aside from heās good at killing aliens?
I enjoyed his sassiness.
feral perch
Vale was put into a position where she was hunting four of the most popular characters. Of course sheās going to be disliked.
tepid lynx
true
polar elm
Er, this H5?
feral perch
No Ostral, you enjoyed the sassiness of Mark V Mjolnir with a voice lol
tepid lynx
dude I don't know anymore
gilded mason
No Ostral, you enjoyed the sassiness of Mark V Mjolnir with a voice lol
tepid lynx
hah!
gilded mason
Er, this H5?
Yes
polar elm
Let's be honest, he had a few but good one liners delivered nonetheless by Steve Downes
tepid lynx
I think we got sidetracked
polar elm
So okay you win that round
stoic hamlet
Reminder John did have a personality in TFoR which did release before CE.
Bungie were just........wrong in their understanding and implementation of the wider EU
humble yacht
So okay you win that round
Itās not a contest
polar elm
I think H2 added some nuance to his character which was nice.
feral perch
Halo 2 subtracted from his character if anything, IMO
polar elm
@humble yacht , just jest
gilded mason
John-wise on the personality aspect
feral perch
Arbiter singlehandedly delivers the best character arc in the entire trilogy though. So itās okay.
stoic hamlet
Better than H3 though
gilded mason
Yeah
dim imp
In H2 I didn't see added anything to his personality as I remember, except "Sir, permission to leave the station ?"
stoic hamlet
2 and 3 really are not great
polar elm
Arbiter was amazing. Hands down added a whole new dimension to the lore.
stoic hamlet
Looking back
feral perch
Chief was a vehicle for epic cutscenes.
polar elm
Well now that you guys mention it, it's understandable.
humble yacht
It worked at the time but when we actually got Chief as a character, it made the past depiction lacking by comparison
feral perch
Halo 3 had a better Chief, actually, I thought.
polar elm
Ah okay. Maybe I'll notice that in a rerun.
dim imp
I agree
feral perch
When compared to Halo 2.
stoic hamlet
Reminder that the wider community thinks John and Thel are BFFās despite John saying.......one word to him in the entirety of Halo 3, lol
polar elm
Whoa, for real?
gilded mason
"Worse"
feral perch
Spoilers
dim imp
Hey, he nodded to Arby in that last cutscene haha
deep pewter
The amount of people complaining about Halsey talking to him when sheās literally the one person heās known the longest was so annoying
polar elm
I haven't seen them interact yet apart from the Gravemind interaction.
stoic hamlet
@deep pewter what are you referring to specifically?
dim imp
What about the little nod between them when the tank nearly splattered arby
polar elm
@deep pewter where's that from?
feral perch
It doesnāt get much better lololol
polar elm
You guys talking about Arby and the Chief?
deep pewter
H5s ending cutscene
feral perch
Yes
stoic hamlet
Oh
polar elm
Welp, another item goes on the list.
humble yacht
Thatās actually a good point
In H2A arby is like āin time I learned to call him ally, even friendā
But they knew each other for like, days?
stoic hamlet
Yeah people are dumb.
90% of the Halo community doesnāt actually care about the story, tbh.
And I stand by that number.
dim imp
Dunno what they did in that carrier when going through the portal
feral perch
Careful, weāre venturing close to No True Scotsman territory, Eternal.
stoic hamlet
I donāt think Iām the only one who wishes they didnāt have the majority of a voice in 343ās ear
I know
deep pewter
The community will ruin anything good about a Halo games story, 100% of the time
feral perch
Unless, of course....
dim imp
A part of the community you mean
feral perch
Itās iconic.
polar elm
It's odd though. I don't think such a fleshed out sci-fi universe exists. It would be good to be proven wrong though.
The only other universe I particularly like is Mass Effect.
feral perch
But people complained that Silent Storm was too iconic. Meh.
deep pewter
A very vocal part of the community
polar elm
So you'd think more people would care about the story
dim imp
There is always this part of the community that is silent
deep pewter
There definitely is
agile dragon
We were this close to a Halo movie which may have brought attention to the books.
polar elm
You talking about the Peter Jackson thing?
dim imp
Well we will have this... show
polar elm
Yes we do.
dim imp
Ngl I'm not excited about it
feral perch
I fear no man. But that show? It scares me.
stoic hamlet
I donāt think anyone actually is
polar elm
I'm just a little skeptical. Can't judge something I haven't seen.
stoic hamlet
People are either pessimist or reserving judgement
polar elm
I think most people are at least a little satisfied for the adaptation to a new medium.
tepid lynx
@stoic hamlet so true
deep pewter
The pessimism surrounding the show is over the top
polar elm
Yeah, it's sad to pronounce it DOA.
agile dragon
Its a good read if you haven't seen it yet:
https://www.wired.com/2012/04/halo-movie-generation-xbox/
polar elm
They might just pull off a decent redemption arc š¤·
dim imp
MCC on PC is already the redemption I was waiting for
polar elm
Decade long redemption
deep pewter
They only ever really needed redemption for 4
dim imp
I dunno if it is still lore related now
feral perch
MCC should only have been H2A + CE Legacy multiplayer
feral perch
Halo 3 should only be getting a PC release now.
Not any of the other titles.
Unpopular opinion but itās my stance
polar elm
Your stance is fine, but 343 can keep my money.
dim imp
Won't hurt anyone if all Halo FPS (except H5 campaign) go on PC
polar elm
People have been clamoring for this for years.
deep pewter
Hopefully 5 will launch later on
dim imp
Also I like how it can introduce Halo to people that don't own Xbox
polar elm
Yep
feral perch
I donāt like that tbh. I went from CE PC to Xbox because of the atrocious Halo 2 Vista port. I donāt think Halo should go back to PC in a significant way outside of āfinishing the fight.ā
gilded mason
As in, you don't think any more Halo games should be made for PC, or...?
polar elm
Oh so you mean to say it shouldn't be the primary platform?
dim imp
That's quite selfish imo
feral perch
I donāt like that Halo is abandoning its platform exclusivity.
gilded mason
wut
polar elm
Well the CE port was atrocious and H2V wasn't the best either.
gilded mason
Abandoning the exclusivity is absolutely a good thing.
feral perch
There are great fixes for both.
polar elm
I'm aware.
feral perch
Unfortunately off-limits for discussion.
dim imp
No coop in H2V hurts
polar elm
Well even timed exclusivity would be okay with me.
feral perch
I see the PC masterrace folks as entitled and haughty. I donāt like that some of them may not appreciate Halo just because it may not run consistently above 60fps.
Cry me a river.
but this is off topic so apologies
gilded mason
dim imp
Well they said Reach will have uncapped FPS
feral perch
I really enjoyed Reachās take on the Jiralhanae.
dim imp
I find them weird without their hair, also applies to H3
feral perch
They were a good balance between the broken apes of Halo 2 and the Elite imitators of Halo 3
polar elm
Brutes in H2 seemed more accurate to their supposedly savage nature.
feral perch
I would like to finally have a sympathetic Jiralhanae protagonist
polar elm
I'll check out the rest.
dim imp
There are some but not in games :Ā°
feral perch
No, there arenāt.
Jiralhanae have literally only been depicted as villains.
Except in one comic, where the Chieftain was a minor character.
deep pewter
Why is Halo coming to PC bad?
dim imp
I read that there was a meeting between elite, humans and brutes to make a peace treaty but ONI stopped it
Or was it other elites
polar elm
I think at least between Contact Harvest and H2, their characterisation seemed consistent.
Are there discrepancies I haven't picked up on?
gilded mason
I read that there was a meeting between elite, humans and brutes to make a peace treaty but ONI stopped it
Some other faction stopped it. Involving mercs and double agent SIVs.
agile dragon
Oni wants all non humans to have reduced military capacity in case another war starts up.
feral perch
Pretty much.
dim imp
They even made GMO of the cereals of the elites or something that is inedible
gilded mason
Though what it wants and what it's capable of are two different things.
polar elm
Now that's beyond paranoid
polar elm
These small tidbits are fine.
feral perch
and you donāt know what awaits you 
polar elm
I'm aware the war has ended. It ain't like I've been under a rock.
agile dragon
Oni is like the CIA, doing the dirty work to keep humanity (Oni, not the cia) safe.
(Not an american)
dim imp
Weeeeell
gilded mason
CIA is a good comparison in that aspect, in that they tend to make things worse. š
dim imp
It also controls the population and does crazy and inhuman experiments
deep pewter
Iām excited to read Kilo V
gilded mason
Do not. I am the arbiter of all things lore. And I decree that series: Silly
dim imp
Funny to think that the flood, so common to us, is unknown to the lambda human because ONI is hiding its existence
agile dragon
I remember they were using propaganda to keep up the belief that humanity was winning the war =9
And Spartans made that so much easier
polar elm
Lambda human?
dim imp
The random human that you pick in the street
polar elm
The oh uh...ok
agile dragon
Not humans from the Lambda Serpentis system?
polar elm
ONI really has a crazy amount of power.
dim imp
Eh no
Lambda, I mean, any human with no particularity š forget tha t word
Actually it can be used like that in French but I don't know in English
agile dragon
lambda function
polar elm
You talking about layman?
dim imp
x)
polar elm
Oh no
dim imp
Thanks to translate it for the lazy human that is me
agile dragon
Sucka tried to play me, didn't wanna pay me...
Has no1 in here heard this song? D:
polar elm
So anyhow, aren't there audits or stuff to keep ONI in check? How could they let a branch like that run around playing God?
agile dragon
Humanity was losing the war
dim imp
The only thing that checks ONI is ONI
polar elm
Especially playing God with an entire species
agile dragon
Humanity was losing the war. ANYTHING goes in that situation
agile dragon
And they were the intelligence gathering office. Information is power.
past olive
Remember ONI covered up the flood attack on New Mombasa, the rest of Earth still has no idea of the floods existence thanks to them
past olive
It's not hard for them to cover stuff up
polar elm
Er I assume that's H3?
past olive
Yes
keen canopy
Remember the Brutes we saw in Halo 2 were likely all Tartarus' Pack
agile dragon
https://www.halopedia.org/Office_of_Naval_Intelligence
"ONI exerts virtually complete control over the flow of information across the territories under UEG control."
polar elm
Yep. Mostly seemed to be that way.
agile dragon
"In order to prevent information from leaking to the public, ONI is capable of initiating system-wide data purges which erase all information on a given subject."
past olive
And then they pass off the events like "oh it was just a massive covenant invasion" or something
polar elm
That's..... terrifying
dim imp
Also isn't ONI tracking chief to kill him or something ?
past olive
No, with chief they can't control him so they fear/dislike him
polar elm
But doesn't he take orders from ONI?
agile dragon
He's the UNSC's knuckle in the hole.
past olive
So as soon as he disobeyed orders they branded him as a terrorist
polar elm
He is a Section III project after all
agile dragon
"Section Three is the top-secret projects division of ONI that oversees the various groups responsible for creating new innovations through the use of advanced alien technology.[1] It is responsible for the SPARTAN-II and SPARTAN-III programs and many other black operations."
dim imp
Unfortunately for them, Locke fights pretty badly
agile dragon
Didn't they send a spy to kill a spartan?
past olive
Actually he held his own against chief pretty well, say what you will about the fight but it is what it is
agile dragon
Run awaaay
past olive
I don't remember a spy killing a spartan
dim imp
However a "spy" trying to kill the Arbiter... Locke...
wintry coral
past olive
I do know that after the human covenant war ended there was a reporter who wanted to gain info on chiefs backstory for an article but discovered the truth and ran on the run for a while from ONI following a conspiracy before finally being found and detained with no one elses knowledge by ONI
agile dragon
I have only seen the cutscenes, don't own the console that has the halo game with locke in it =[
past olive
You mean an Xbox One?
agile dragon
yes
past olive
But the thing is, all of that I wouldn't even consoder the worst from ONI
agile dragon
Original Xbox and 360 ftw (because we owned those)
dim imp
Worst of ONI ? Mona Lisa ?
polar elm
I think that reporter appeared in the Adjunct of Flood or First Strike.
wintry coral
Yes
polar elm
First Strike it is
past olive
The worst thing that ONI did imo was take a prison ship with human and covenant prisoners to a halo ring, extracted flood samples and experimented using the prisoners as live test subjects in hopes of somehow turning the flood into a biological weapon they could control.
dim imp
Yep, Mona Lisa
polar elm
Ah jeez why did I come back
past olive
Yeah
polar elm
But yeah that's horrible
past olive
Mona Lisa was the name of the ship you're right, I just wanted to explain it
agile dragon
jesus, reading about it now
the flood is airborne, how would they dream of containing that
dim imp
You should see Mona Lisa, it is quite... special
past olive
It's not it's spread by the flood creatures
dim imp
Can also be spread by the spores
agile dragon
^
dim imp
Flood creatures are called flood pods by the way
polar elm
All in the name of research?
past olive
Yes
gilded mason
Ah dang it filters.
past olive
ONI was prepared to do whatever no matter how imoral to gain an advantage in the war
agile dragon
All you need is 1 flood spore to start an infestation
polar elm
Well desperation at the brink of endangerment is understandable, but it takes special people to stomach this.
wintry coral
One single Flood Spore can destroy a species
dim imp
Pod infectors, my bad*
gilded mason
Though apparently the more...disgusting elements of the Mona Lisa were the result of one agent lacking authorization.
polar elm
Would public opinion have turned against them had they pulled it off successfully?
wintry coral
Who do you think won the fight at the end, Lopez or Henry the Elite?
dim imp
No, because no one would have known about it
gilded mason
Henry would obviously win. But would it have been enough to escape?
wintry coral
Probably not
polar elm
Well fair enough
past olive
Even after the war ONI took the main source of food the covenant ate (a grain grown by Jackals) and introduced a new biological strain to it that would turn all of it poisonous to the covenant in the way that attempting to eat it made them throw it back up. ONI to make sure in the event of another war, to ensure they would win is literally starving what remains of the covenant, the people they supposedly made peace with.
wintry coral
Those escape pods are 100% not fast enough to escape the nukeās blast radius
past olive
People like Arbiter suspect ONI for this but with no proof they can't accuse them of it either cause ONI made sure to not leave a trace
agile dragon
no witnesses: never happened
dim imp
And accusing ONI would probably make you dead anyway
past olive
Exactly
agile dragon
All of their problems just disappear.
past olive
ONI sounds like an antagonist but everything they have done has been for the sake of humanity one way or another
dim imp
Well, ONI made the Spartans
versed helm
Reminds me of Cerberus to a degree.
gilded mason
the main source of food the covenant ate
Where was it said that one species of grain found on Sanghelios is the main source of food for the entire Covenant?
dim imp
Without spartans, humanity would not have won, no Great Schism
agile dragon
Technically the Covenant had no winning route either...
past olive
Idk I just went off a summary video so I should probably say don't take me word for word
dim imp
Yeah...Everyone dying
agile dragon
Their "victory" was galaxy wide extermination.
dim imp
At least they would have survived on the Ark
keen canopy
They would never have made it there
past olive
They already were there
keen canopy
Spartans are the ones who saved the artifact on Sigma Octanus IV
dim imp
Hum yeah they would have just activated Installation 04
Oh nevermind they can't as they are not Reclaimers
keen canopy
What? Humanity wasn't on the Ark until Halo 3 though?
past olive
Oh you meant humanity I was thinking covenant
dim imp
Same but he changed subject apparently
keen canopy
Oh I thought you guys were talking about a HCU with no Spartans
keen canopy
In my opinion, Covenant could easily have won, in that, they would have wiped out Humanity 100% before activating the rings.
past olive
Bapt was referring to at least some covenant would have survived on the ark with the extermination and 2EEZY took that as talking about Humanity surviving on the Ark
That's what I think happened
keen canopy
They also would have wiped out Humanity before discovering the Ark, for that matter
dim imp
Fun fact is
Covenant just can't make the Great Journey if the humanity doesn't interfere
keen canopy
At the beginning of the war, ONI estimated that Humanity could last 7 years
past olive
They lasted decades
dim imp
They would have never make the Great Journey by exterminating the humans
gilded mason
Covenant just can't make the Great Journey if the humanity doesn't interfere
Unless they eventually find a good way to bypass the Reclaimer lock.
versed helm
Would firing Installation 04 have triggered the other 6?
I know the others went on standby during H2 but I'm a bit rusty on the details
past olive
Then why didn't the covenant just fire them from one of the rings
Instead of going to the ark
keen canopy
The Covenant didn't discover Installation 04 until 27 years into the war.
agile dragon
Keep in mind, without spartans, they would have gotten the tech from Reach/Onyx, whatever
dim imp
Each Installation is monitored by... a monitor following a really strict protocol
I guess they wouldn't have been able to bypass the "reclaimer lock"
past olive
The one chief can access I see
agile dragon
The gravity bending crystal artifact, etc
dim imp
Without spartan, they wouldn't have been the Great Schism
keen canopy
@past olive After Installation 05 was set to fire and then cancelled, the entire Installation went on Standby mode, and could only be fired from the Ark.
dim imp
It happened because MC killed Regret
agile dragon
Brutes clearly didn't want to work under the elites any more
gilded mason
It happened beforehand
dim imp
Oh yes, H3 ODST
versed helm
I thought the Schism was only accelerated by Chief killing Regret.
The Elites on Earth were already being slaughtered by that point
carmine sleet
You are correct
keen canopy
That was Truth's secret, nobody else in the Covenant knew aside from his personal fleet
Regret dying was his excuse to remove the Elites from the duties of patrolling High Charity
agile dragon
^
dim imp
Truth's real secret is that he needed a human for the Great Journey
"But that secret dies with all the rest."
He even knew about the fact that it will kill them all
Weird
past olive
Truth was an assimilation maniac, he believed everything ending meant salvation
keen canopy
Wouldn't have killed him or his forces on the Ark though, if his entire fleet wasn't destroyed, it was almost a sane plan.
gilded mason
if his entire fleet wasn't destroyed
Thanks, Rtas.
versed helm
So, is it explained why humanity have an inherent link to seemingly all Forerunner technology despite their hatred of one another?
agile dragon
Nepotism.
dim imp
At the end of the War, I think that the forerunner acknowledged of their mistakes by treating humanity like bullpoop and made them able to interact with stuff
past olive
Also because humanity and forerunners are one in the same essentially
agile dragon
Floodbait!
past olive
Forerunners are humanity but existed thousands of millennia before humans, due to being wiped out by the flood they placed the seeds to humanity on earth in hopes of preventing extinction, not all Forerunners liked this idea however (such as the Didact)
dim imp
I wonder what happened to the flood on 05
gilded mason
Forerunners are humanity
That ain't canon.
keen canopy
@past olive that's just straight not true
dim imp
I don't think that they all went on High Charity
gilded mason
I wonder what happened to the flood on 05
Elites enacted quarantine measures
versed helm
See that's the reason I thought got retconned.
'You are Forerunner', etc.
past olive
Boi Chief literally said "The forerunners, they're human" in 4
dim imp
That's 343 mistaking
gilded mason
No, he said the Prometheans are humans
dim imp
He thought that Chief was a forerunner
gilded mason
Because the Prometheans we were fighting used human essences
carmine sleet
Spark was rampant when he said Chief was Forerunner, it's quite possible he thought Chief was someone else in that moment
keen canopy
The Status of Reclaimer was conferred upon humanity as an emergency directive on the authority of the remains of the New Council during the events surrounding the firing the of Halo Array.
past olive
Well Prometheans are forerunners aren't they? What's the different I thought it was just a factional thing or something
dim imp
He also though that Chief was someone else in CE
gilded mason
Well Prometheans are forerunners aren't they? What's the different I thought it was just a factional thing or something
Some were Forerunner, some were human
past olive
Chief has the Geass of a forerunner and so to Spark his signature was the same
dim imp
Knights in H4 are humans, while knights in H5 are forerunners
gilded mason
Chief has the Geass of a forerunner
He does not
gilded mason
Nope.
keen canopy
He doesn't
past olive
Well then like a few thousand people got that wrong
gilded mason
People should not listen to HaloFollower
past olive
But the librarian awakened his Geass in 4
That was like the whole thing that happened
Made him immune to that pulse bomb thing
keen canopy
"Geass of a Forerunner" is a misconception
past olive
That I can't remember the name of
dim imp
That pulse bomb thing is the Composer
past olive
Yeah that
keen canopy
He has a two Geasa
gilded mason
Where'd you hear that he has two?
keen canopy
One: the one that all Reclaimers have, allowing them to interface with *Forerunner technology
Two: the one that the Librarian gave him in Halo 4.
past olive
No she awakened his existing one, didn't she?
gilded mason
From what I remember, she simply accelerated the effects of his existing one. Or something like that
dim imp
That's the most confusing cutscene in all of Halo history imo, so much going on in there
versed helm
Is this the 'Gene Song' because I don't recall the term Geass being used
tepid lynx
ditto
gilded mason
Is this the 'Gene Song' because I don't recall the term Geass being used```
SynonymsThis community is messing my head up I got people saying one thing and othersvsaying other things, I need to read one of those summary books or something, is this explained in mythos?
keen canopy
Just go to Halopedia
dim imp
Well you wouldn't need to come here if you only used Halopedia to begin with
tepid lynx
yup
keen canopy
It's semantics whether she modified his existing geas or added a new one, the main point is that all Reclaimers already have a geas
dim imp
Sharing knowledge with everyone is a more interesting way to learn that just reading a wiki, imo
keen canopy
Fred operating the Wraith in TFoR for example
past olive
Isn't Halopedia incorrect sometimes though? I've heard people say that too
keen canopy
Hell, even 343 is incorrect sometimes
tepid lynx
lol
versed helm
inb4 Nanomachines
keen canopy
You can check the sources themselves if you're unsure about something
dim imp
Halopedia always gives its sources, you can check them to see if something seems wrong to you
keen canopy
On another note, it's awesome that a tiny plot thread from the very first piece of Halo material ever (some humans just instinctively feeling familiar with Forerunner/Covenant tech) was picked up and expanded upon years later
terse lava
It wasn't really so much expanded upon as it was changed. Originally The plot was that humanity were forerunners. Eventually though again Halo 3 it was changed to where humanity and the forerunners Were2 separate species.
keen canopy
The intention was changed, sure, but that^ was never actually established in the lore by any pre-Halo 3 content, only hinted at.
And by Halo 3, it was decided that Humanity and the Forerunners were separate races.
dim imp
Were the precursors a thing in the beginning ?
deep pewter
The issue comes from Bungie not being sure on which way they wanted to go
There was 2 camps in Bungie regarding what exactly Forerunners were, and neither won out by the time 343i took over, so a choice had to be made
keen canopy
343i didn't have much of a choice, confirming them to be different retcons nothing from 3, but confirming them to be the same does.
dim imp
How so ?
keen canopy
The stuff that suggests they are the same can easily be interpreted as referring to Humanity as their successors nowadays, and even back then.
deep pewter
There comes a time when mysticism has to be lifted, it becomes boring when certain aspects of a series are left completely unexplained for decades
tepid lynx
point
keen canopy
Indeed
tepid lynx
Thel' Vadmee was a scapegoat
terse lava
Well 343 did combine both camps, a good idea imo
keen canopy
Truth's plans for the Great Schism didn't really have anything to do with the Prophets disgracing Thel and making him Arbiter.
tepid lynx
i mean for 03s destruction
dim imp
04 you mean
tepid lynx
right sorry
keen canopy
Oh right, well either way the Hierarchs wanted Thel gone regardless
tepid lynx
true
keen canopy
They have a very long history of removing Sangheili power figures, and Thel was one of the most successful and exceptional in the history of the Covenant. If 04 didn't happen, they would've pinned something on him sooner or later.
tepid lynx
true
dim imp
If 04 didn't happen, they would have all died anyway
keen canopy
What for haha
tepid lynx
EVERYTHING
dim imp
I mean
04 would have fired and every being in this galaxy arm would have been exterminated
tepid lynx
oh right
keen canopy
Oh RVB... for some reason I thought you meant Grim
tepid lynx
heh still funny
keen canopy
@dim imp That kinda goes without saying, I was moreso saying if Cortana never lead them there in the first place.
tepid lynx
I just realized that post Halo 4 Cortana became the AI version of A psychotic girlfriend.
That and Bond villan.
keen canopy
I didn't really like the execution either, but that's oversimplifying a little bit haha.
In TFoR, before she's even met him, Cortana hacks into John's classified file and is horrified by what she sees. She vows that short of compromising her mission - she will always place taking care of John above all else.
So after Cortana literally sacrificed her life to complete the mission and save John, and then a fragment of her damaged, Rampant self managed to enter the domain... it's not that unreasonable for it to decide she wants to end all conflict, so that John never has to fight ever again. She even believes taking the lives of billions is justified if she ends all conflict and establishes a peaceful future for the entire galaxy, John, and his family. AI's think differently, especially rampant AI fragments.
dim imp
"His family"
Have to describe what you mean by family
keen canopy
Blue team
dim imp
Oh makes sense
deep pewter
I know, they would obviously use Diesel
humble yacht
No
Nuclear power is the only energy source capable of the output necessary to make mjolnir work
Also it has the benefit of being clean energy
rancid delta
@humble yacht they use a compact fusion reactor
humble yacht
Nuclear fusion
rancid delta
Yeah, but compact
rancid delta
The size of the reactors changed overtine
humble yacht
Itās also the future so a tiny reactor in the 26th century could be as powerful as a big reactor in modern times
rancid delta
Mark 2 armour had like energy shielding and stuff but it required you to be tethered to a stationary power source, they were only useful for defense against insurrection
@versed helm yeah it's like a safety feature
It'll incinerate anything in a 10-metre radius
To protect it in case it was ever about to be captures
Like they have this protocol called CORRUPTER
So basically it means a Spartan has been infected by the flood, weapons of mass destruction have been authorised like orbital bombardment and stuff. And all Spartans must retreat
@versed helm like it's only 1 spartan
gilded mason
Mark 2 armour had like energy shielding and stuff
Where'd you hear that?
rancid delta
@gilded mason I read the spartan field manual
@versed helm it did
Lemme check when I get home
@versed helm idk really know
gilded mason
You might've seen something say GEN2 and misread it.
gilded mason
Ah, read through the manual. Think this is what he saw, perhaps:
Several Mark II advancements were incorporated into later models, such as energy-dispersing refractive coating on its plating...
Though that seems to be modified metal for dispersing heat, if I'm reading that right.
unique rune
Yeah, thatās not energy shielding, thatās just specially treated armor plating.
stoic hamlet
^^^
terse lava
Would the covenant have been energized or had their faith shaken if alpha halo, for whatever reason, was already destroyed by the time they arrived. Not caused by humanity in any way, just unlucky chance the first found galo would already be gone
remote spruce
The Prophets would find some way to spin it in their favor
warped gust
can we please get a pre-Fall of Reach Noble Team book 
versed helm
That would be nice
keen smelt
One with a hell of a lot more info on thom?
Heck yeh
The dude was supposed to be in reach, but it was decided that he would be only in a noble performance report and was cut
Besides the setup for b312, the dudes only mentioned in 1 other place in cannon from what I have
subtle wasp
Who would win?
Forerunners - Very advanced species with powerful technology and lots of knowledge
Or...
Some Popcorn
radiant sphinx
@subtle wasp such an original joke, tell another.
sacred dew
Who would win?
An highly advanced coalition of aliens with plasma and shields
Or
One green boi
gilded mason
The former.
carmine sleet
Depends on who the person in green is for how long they'll last
Like, if we're putting Link from Legend of Zelda against the whole Covenant, he'd be dead before he has the chance to draw his sword
sacred dew
Now I wonder if doomslayer could do it
humble yacht
link tends to reincarnate in a form that suits the world around him
if there was a Link in the Halo universe, i think his gear would be suited for that setting
sacred dew
Wait link reincarnates?
carmine sleet
Each Link is a new incarnation of the legendary hero of Hyrule
They have the same spirit and resolve but not memories
carmine sleet
Aye, and the one in BotW 2 is obviously the Hero of the Wild from BotW
obsidian thistle
Its a very complex timeline that is. I am so thankful Halo doesnt follow that sorta logic xD
gilded mason
And ALttP -> Oracle Games -> Link's Awakening, right?
gilded mason
I mean, the Oracle games end with him getting on the same raft he was on at the start of Awakening
carmine sleet
I believe it does. Granted, my knowledge of the Zelda timeline is from videos opposed to actually playing them
humble yacht
looked up the timeline and it says Oracle games come after Link's Awakening
gilded mason
The heck
humble yacht
ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
carmine sleet
He could've gotten back to land and then had those adventures
obsidian thistle
Tbh the timeline is mainly loosely based
humble yacht
if chief is the new link then who is the new zelda?
gilded mason
Arbiter
gilded mason
yes
carmine sleet
Cortana maybe?
humble yacht
no she's navi
carmine sleet
True
sacred dew
I have no idea what u guys are talking aboutš
obsidian thistle
Well not every adventure has a Zelda in it
humble yacht
what would be Chief's master sword?
sacred dew
The energy sword of course
humble yacht
nah he doesn't use it often enough
gilded mason
I guess the iconic thing might be the assault rifle?
humble yacht
i was thinking that
though one could argue that the Halos serve the role of a weapon that "seals the darkness"
gilded mason
My weapon seals the darkness by killing everyone. š
humble yacht
you know it's odd that botw Guardians don't have melee attacks
sacred dew
Doomguy vs masterchief?
gilded mason
Doomguy.
sacred dew
Why
gilded mason
Because.
humble yacht
Chief
feral perch
If itās Chief with Cortana? Absolutely Chief would win.
Solo Chief versus Doomguy? I dunno.
quick spear
Doomguy? Chief stomps no arguments
Doomslayer?
mf took down a skyscraper demon
with his angry fists
chief is massively superior to doomslayer technologically and id say the latter wins only because of some more powerful weapons and brute strength
humble yacht
you could say that about MJOLNIR too
quick spear
MJOLNIR has a helluvalot more systems
and has been shown to take a lot of beating as well
wtf
message gets blocked
Seriously this is the word that gets filtered?
in a halo server??
carmine sleet
Blame the film that comes out next month they don't want people spoiling here
quick spear
anyways, chief fell from space and lived
ate like tons of bullets and plasma
this thing holds
wispy bough
Don't bypass the filter pls.
quick spear
even if its justified?
wispy bough
Breaking the rules ain't justified lol. I get it's annoying but you can work around it.
quick spear
am i supposed to find an alternative word for something essential even if its irrelevant to whats filtered?
carmine sleet
Conflict is a good word to use
humble yacht
the potential energy behind an Energy Sword is vast
no wonder it cuts through MJOLNIR
with MJOLNIR, only some of its power goes to shields
quick spear
anyways doomslayer's armor has the bare essentials for the typical sci fi suit
humble yacht
but for an energy sword, all of its power goes into the blade
quick spear
hud, shields, tough hull
argent energy yes, but where?
in what systems?
good... point
great point actually
doesnt mjolnir repair itself as well or is that like not a thing
humble yacht
argent energy is even more hand wavy than vacuum energy
quick spear
yeah, i remember it was mentioned
unique rune
Depends on the iteration of MJOLNIR.
humble yacht
GEN3 self repairs
quick spear
it also has nanomacheens on the inside
humble yacht
so did GEN1 Mark VII
quick spear
gen 2 dont?
humble yacht
gen2 does not have onboard nanomachines, iirc
quick spear
not in space tho
unique rune
Yeah, unless it's fitted with nanomachines it can't self-repair.
humble yacht
Chief's visor didn't repair after getting cracked by Locke
unique rune
Infinite takes place at least two or three years after 5.
He's got a new suit of armor by then.
Between 4 and 5, he was.
And then the whole thing with the Argent Moon happened...
quick spear
oh ffs chief wears mark iv armor not ii
humble yacht
whut
humble yacht
Chief wears Mark VI armor for most of the games
he hasn't worn Mark IV since before Reach
carmine sleet
In Halo 5 he wears Gen 2 Mark VI Mod (I believe that's the name anyway) and in Infinite, he's in a brand new, Gen 3 suit
humble yacht
well i guess they failed then
he sported that cracked visor for the rest of the game
quick spear
mark iv has nanocomposite bodysuit
id assume this isnt nanomachines
since its nanocomposite material, essentially some space magic cnt
unique rune
Nah, nanocomposite and nanomachines are very different things.
quick spear
hate to apply the dragon ball logic here but i think they should just buff chief just a teeny tiny bit so his ''chiefness'' is justified
carmine sleet
Chief doesn't need a buff to be more "Chiefy"
quick spear
yeah but that results to people calling him extremely lucky and having plot armor
and to an extent
theyre not completely wrong
carmine sleet
That's not a problem
quick spear
in the comics he's more exaggerated
unique rune
Would "buffing" him make that any different?
Then his traits would be even more pointlessly exaggerated.
carmine sleet
Being new armour mainly
quick spear
didnt mean like making him go through planets
but cmon locke duking him once breaking his lens
i thought that was a bit stupid
yeah but chief is strong man spartan
carmine sleet
All Spartans are strong
unique rune
The visor's always been the weakest external component of MJOLNIR. A good hit from another Spartan would do some work on it.
carmine sleet
They could kill you in a single punch to the chest
slow crag
Of course they are strong
carmine sleet
A what to a what now?
slow crag
Ye what's a primarch.
quick spear
its a 40k reference
unique rune
I mean.
Just because Chief is strong doesn't mean he makes his own armor more resilient
quick spear
good point
slow crag
Fireteam Osiris
quick spear
osiris is like very new
slow crag
Lol aight
unique rune
Pretty much.
unique rune
Not necessarily fanatics.
Some still believe in the religion, others just scrambling to pick up whatever power they can.
slow crag
Nice
quick spear
some are fanatics, the intellectual sangheili alpha male chads are more down to earth
humble yacht
who said Chief single handedly beat the covenant?
because he totes didn't
when you really think about it, Rtas beat the Covenant
slow crag
What if the elites didn't allied with humans
We would've definitely lose right
Or no idk
tepid lynx
@slow crag yup
unique rune
If the Covenant hadn't started breaking itself apart, humanity would've been screwed.
quick spear
i didnt mean it literally, but you cant argue chief doing what he did himself isnt analogically more impressive than other efforts
humble yacht
they'd have been more screwed than Samus when she jumps
tepid lynx
@humble yacht nice one!
merry shale
@quick spear so noble 6 fighting off a small covenant unit to defend masterchief isnt impressive?
humble yacht
it is but he had a big gun
merry shale
i dont think he would be able to do it without said gun
quick spear
you saw that series of letters that spell ''analogically'' which i made sure to place in my sentence?
merry shale
3 days
merry shale
didnt the shields of his armor only start failing cause he took off his helmet?
quick spear
wait is that how it works?
slow crag
I heard weeks but that would be exaggerating
humble yacht
Rtas beat a fleet 3x his size and effectively ended the Covenant
merry shale
i remember hearing that if the spartans dont affix their helmets the shields stop working
humble yacht
Arby and Chief just killed the leader
merry shale
kinda why Kat died
humble yacht
no kat died because her shields were down
humble yacht
down because the glassing beam EMP'd everything
quick spear
she got pubg'd
merry shale
nah that wasnt why
Kat didnt charge her shields
the emp thing is a little shaky cause just after the blast one of the other noble's shields startet to regen
rewatch the cutscene
i think it was 6 himself
quick spear
arent spartan suits like very resistant to emps
merry shale
yeah
formal hare
As somebody that's hopping into Halo due to the MCC coming to pc is there any lore i need to learn that isn't explained that happens before Reach? I've only played Halo 2 on OG XBOX, and i don't remember anything from it at all.
merry shale
but for the shields to charge like i stated the helmets need to be fixed to the armor
@formal hare noble team is one of the only teams of spartan 3's to actually get Mjolnir armor
the other spartan 3's get SPI armor
which isnt as cool or as strong
slow crag
Wait you serious?
merry shale
yes
formal hare
How come they get it?
unique rune
Most Spartan-IIIs got SPI for cost reasons.
gilded mason
Though SPI's stealth systems are apparently pretty good.
merry shale
Most spartan 3s were designed for suicide missions
formal hare
So Reach as about this elite squadron?
merry shale
prepared to die and such
unique rune
S-IIIs were deployed en masse in high risk missions.
No point in spending all that on MJOLNIR that'd largely be wasted.
slow crag
I know they were suiciders but didn't expect to get sp1 armors
merry shale
SPI not spartan 1
merry shale
semi powered infiltration
quick spear
one is pristine, the other a chinese bootleg
gilded mason
SPI is s-p-i
merry shale
spartan 1 armor is clunky and slow looking at the concept art
carmine sleet
S-Is were just wearing standard combat BDUs
quick spear
spartan 2 armor is like the first iron man suit
quick spear
they would fire mark 3's from artillery cannons and embed them to enemy ships
quick spear
mark 3s are bulky enough to be fired from a mac cannon
unique rune
The gap between Spartan-II and Spartan-IV performance is far exaggerated.
quick spear
they're definetly not equal
merry shale
^
quick spear
this is made a point in the games even
gilded mason
Gen2 closes the gap between SIIs and SIVs.
unique rune
They're weaker, but the gap isn't well defined.
merry shale
But if they are both wearing GEN 2
quick spear
spartan 4s are mass produced variants
merry shale
then there isnt any leverage for LOCKE
gilded mason
But if they are both wearing GEN 2
Diminishing returns
unique rune
Spartan-IVs in GEN2 are supposed to be as effective as Spartan-IIs in GEN1 armor.
quick spear
while 2s are massively self dependant
merry shale
But Chief also was wearing GEN 2
quick spear
like one to one its not even a competition
slow crag
chief operates alone for about 4 games
quick spear
they are 600% more self dependant than ivs
merry shale
But MC has way more experience in combat scenarios and what not
quick spear
i said more not entirely
merry shale
There is no way Locke shouldve one thats bs
tepid lynx
@slow crag minus Cortana yes.
unique rune
I mean.
Locke didn't win.
merry shale
Shouldve gotten the upperhand
slow crag
He only cracked chiefs visor
merry shale
rephrase
quick spear
''The SPARTAN-IIs underwent more intense surgical augmentations than the SPARTAN-IVs did, and there was also the fact that every single one of them were indoctrinated and mentally conditioned from eleven years old to be the perfect soldiers. In terms of the hardware that they used while they were still in active service prior to the SPARTAN-III program, the MJOLNIR Mk. IV-VI suits were still not as advanced as the MJOLNIR GEN-2 suits that the S-IVs used, but their sheer efficiency and their more intense augmentations give them an edge that the S-IVs sorely lack.''
stole this
but makes the point
btw locke didnt win the fight
humble yacht
where's that quote from
unique rune
I'm... not seeing what the point is you're trying to make.
quick spear
he had his spartan 4 behind handed over to him
unique rune
Sure, but we don't know how big that gap is to begin with.
tepid lynx
@merry shale has a good point
quick spear
we definetly know it exists
tepid lynx
no doubt there
unique rune
Yes, there is a gap, but it's certainly not nearly as exaggerated as people make it out to be.
tepid lynx
point
quick spear
spartan 2s are literally based on greek spartans, trained from an extremely young age and given insane augmentations that would kill most
spartan 4s are just not that
they're even smaller
tepid lynx
lol
quick spear
avg sp2 is 220cm while sp4s are 2m
merry shale
And wasnt stated to be as skilled as him either
unique rune
B312 still would have had a fair bit of field experience.
merry shale
Bro commercials
regal brook
god this is all blowing my mind
quick spear
dd you guys read what i wrote
tepid lynx
yup
merry shale
and Noble 6 actually did mostly solo missions
gilded mason
By labeling him the only hyper lethal vector aside from Chief
aaaaaaaaaa
unique rune
OC DONUT STEEL
tepid lynx
@merry shale true
quick spear
turbo spess cocaine
merry shale
also spartan 4s need regular check ups or else they die sooooooooooo
slow crag
Nice conclusion
merry shale
no it could tho
carmine sleet
Frost, I don't think any of the Spartans have a problem with coke
tepid lynx
with coke
humble yacht
that's enough, Frost
merry shale
Buck compared the Spartan 2s to Titans the 3s to Gods and the 4s to demi gods
unique rune
I'm still waiting for some piece of fiction to depict a Spartan-IV eating an entire tree.
unique rune
Buck's comparison... really isn't that accurate.
tepid lynx
ditto
humble yacht
Buck's "analysis" is full of personal bias
slow crag
Coming from someone with buck as his pfp loll
tepid lynx
buck and vale sitting in a tree...
slow crag
Jk
quick spear
''any spartan can be equal to chief'' If they're a 220cm army destroying trained-since birth kind of killing machine then i guess
tepid lynx
1234
unique rune
I'm slowly starting to convince myself that SPARTAN-IV should have just been called ORION-IV.
tepid lynx
sounds cooler... Jk
slow crag
Nice
humble yacht
Nah, ORION gave little benefit at great expense
quick spear
my point still is that IIs are better than IVs
slow crag
I mean just look at fireteam Osiris its like bunch of civilians became spartans
Except for buck and locke
quick spear
why
unique rune
No one is disagreeing that Spartan-IIs are better than -IVs.
quick spear
i provided endless arguments
carmine sleet
Vale and Tanaka aren't civilians, ee, they were just from different parts of the UNSC to Buck and Locke
quick spear
he's also Really really good?
merry shale
Samuel is probably equal to chief
gilded mason
Who are they before they became a spartan anyway
Tanaka: Army engineer
Vale: ONI liason, or something
merry shale
just not as lucky
quick spear
yeah but he's very much really exceptionally good
carmine sleet
Tanaka was an engineer with the UNSC army and Vale was a Liason for ONI who worked with the Swords of Sanghelios
slow crag
Army engineer woahh
merry shale
also samuel-034 was stated to be stronger then chief
gilded mason
He had enough strength to deadlift an ant.