The outcome of the fight, in my eyes, makes the physical disparity between them extremely evident.
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
snow void
There isn't much you can do, once again, against a fully armored Elite of one of the highest ranking in full armor that weighs almost twice your body weight while it's holding you up off the ground
versed helm
It is also worth noting from an out-of-universe perspective that this fight predates any indication in the lore that Johnson was anything other than a normal Marine.
When the original fight in H2 was animated, he was considered to merely be an un-augmented human.
And I would suggest that fact probably shaped the capabilities of the ORIONs when they became a part of the lore.
snow void
Also note that this is a remaster
versed helm
So you believe that the H2A cutscene was designed to reflect Johnson exhibiting superhuman strength.
snow void
No, but you're using action to reflex lore
versed helm
Architect, please. Don't tell me you don't see what you just did.
You made a statement implying that what we see in this cutscene has no bearing on the lore.
Then, I said that was not true, and that the cutscene does.
snow void
No, it literally made all the bearing
I was watching the cutscene before you brought it up
versed helm
The cutscene having bearing on the lore is an intrinsic property of the cutscene.
What you say or when you viewed it has no bearing on that.
snow void
So does that in the book
So you're saying that has no bearing
You realize I brought up cutscenes because you brought up a scene in a book
versed helm
I'm saying you're talking gibberish.
snow void
My point was that scenes for action have little bearing on lore
So, I decided to play at your game
versed helm
And I pointed out that there was no basis for that.
I mean if there is, I'd love to hear it.
snow void
Basis for what? You've changed sides 3 times in the past minute
versed helm
That's ironic for you to say, considering that you first said that the action has no basis on the lore, then accepted that the cutscene did have a basis in the lore and asked what I was trying to say when I indicated the same thing, then swapped back again, and then told me you were just "playing my game".
snow void
No, I played at your game to try to convince you, using your own idea
versed helm
My perspective is and always has been that the cutscene does have a basis in the lore, and that it doesn't show that Johnson's strength is equivalent to an Elite's.
Furthermore, if Johnson's body prevents him from effectively fighting against an Elite, I don't see how he can be as strong as one.
snow void
Except it does, it shows Johnson put up a fight against one of the best Elites in the Covenant, and overpower one of his attacks
While you claim that he can't even overpower a Jackal
versed helm
Except it doesn't, because he fends off one blow and is defeated.
snow void
That goes in line with what I said
I said he's definitely not stronger than a high ranking Elite like the Arbiter
versed helm
That one blow - a one handed blow, met with a BR55 held in two hands - does not indicate that Johnson's strength is comparable to the Arbiter's in any remote sense.
snow void
That initial blow didn't knock his gun out of his hands, then the second blow he didn't only block, you keep ignoring the next part, where he literally pushes up against the Arbiter's hand coming down and moves it aside to push his BR into the Arbiter's gut
versed helm
I indicated to you that the Arbiter's raw strength is not notably exceptional by Elite standards, but that his mind is.
The blow wouldn't knock the gun out of Johnson's hand, because the blow drove the BR55 back into his palms.
snow void
Where does anything ever say that the Arbiter is not exceptionally strong?
snow void
The fact that he reached such a high ranked, the fact he's lived so long in battle and won so many fights
versed helm
I would argue that is explained by a keen mind.
Which he certainly is demonstrated to have.
snow void
You know how Sangheili culture works, right?
versed helm
A warrior's sole tool is not his ability to win arm wrestles.
It is far more important to out-think a foe than out-muscle them.
snow void
But physical strenght is a great tool
Especially in Sangheili style combat
There's no reason for them not to strive for strength, only benefit, so it's ideal for them to strive for strength
versed helm
I'm not saying that the Arbiter lacks it, I'm just saying that in my mind he's fairly representative of Sangheili warriors, so your distinction of him being considerably elevated beyond the capabilities of another Elite doesn't hold water to me.
snow void
Soooo, in your unbacked opinion, you're just gonna write this off
versed helm
I'm afraid so.
snow void
So, I'm gonna say the Jackal Johnson was grappled by was actually a buff asf Jackal super weight champion
~in my opinion~
versed helm
Architect, your interpretation may work for you, but it is not an interpretation that is directly supported by the lore, and it doesn't work for me.
Fiction is partially subjective, and fictional discussion works by trying to understand other people's interpretations.
snow void
You see what I'm saying? Lore and just real life logic supports the Arbiter being more than an average Elite
versed helm
I have not found your interpretation to be particularly convincing. It puts the burden of proof on showing that Johnson is not superhumanly strong, as I originally indicated, and the very premise of Johnson's strength is shaky to me as your definition of strength seems to involve some intrinsic property with little practical bearing.
That Johnson can somehow be as strong as an Elite, yet never be able to exercise that strength in an identifiable way.
snow void
According to you, sure, but he overpowers an attack by a strong Elite
versed helm
Beyond absorbing a one-handed hit from an Elite with a weapon held in two hands, and gradually wrestle a gun into position to shoot a Jackal, both feats being things I would expect a regular Marine to achieve.
Would this idea of strength you hold account for Johnson being incapacitated after being hurled across the room by the Arbiter?
Check that your message contains no curses.
Sometimes this server's bot is also randomly programmed to filter out words it doesn't make sense to.
You've gotta zero in on them and work around it.
Still is, lmao.
K-e-l-l-y
snow void
If it helps the discussion, I'm clearly referring to an Elite and not the armor an Elite wears
As Sgt Johnson clearly doesn't wear power armor
snow void
Which is likely roughly the same as a Spartan II or unarmored Elite
versed helm
I do not subscribe to the notion that a Sangheili's armour provides a meaningful increase in strength, in the manner of an exoskeleton or MJOLNIR.
I am aware that it was mentioned in the Halo Encyclopedia, but it is slightly difficult to fathom as an idea for me.
snow void
I mean, it's supposed to provide similar boosts as Mjolnir armor
versed helm
In this instance, the onus is on me.
I don't see much of the information from the Halo Encyclopedia to be canon. Much of it is inconsistent with the EU, and is in some case line-for-line copied off Halopedia. Halopedia, at the time, was not a reliable source.
If you wish to take it as canon, I can't blame you.
But that is a crucial point of differentiation in our interpretations.
I see all of a Sangheili's strength as accounted for by their own bodies, not by their armour.
I don't really see how their armour could improve their physical strength given its structure, unless it uses similar mechanisms to MJOLNIR.
snow void
Well, I reckon not as much comes from the armor, but it's also worth noting how much the armor absorbs incoming attacks, i.e. Johnson's blow to the Arbiter's gut
versed helm
You might expect any ballistic armour to be able to absorb such a blow, especially the heavy plates worn by an Elite.
And given an Elite's size.
I think we're at the point where the only practical path forwards is to agree to disagree about what the H2A fight between Johnson and the Arbiter actually demonstrates.
snow void
I still disagree with the Contact Harvest scene having any bearing on lore, and just to serve as an action scene, same for the H2A fight
versed helm
In light of the total absence of Johnson demonstrating elevated physical strength during his POV segments in Contact Harvest and Silent Storm, I feel vindicated in maintaining the perspective that ORION enhancements were not significant enough to allow a human to be, in any practical way, "as strong as an average elite."
And I will caution you that holding the perspective that a scene being an action scene precludes it from having any bearing on the lore is not a sustainable one.
Halo is a franchise in which combat is very central to its themes and lore.
snow void
Not "any bearing" but a lot has to be done for an action scene to look good.
A lot of that can include missing accuracy to lore
versed helm
I think you've got to maintain a balanced perspective on the matter. In all things, it's a balance - you can allow for some flare, but you must accept the intent of the action.
I would also point out that without the H2A scene, you don't really have any evidence for how significant an ORION's augmentations are.
And therefore, no basis of comparison to an elite.
The Spartan Field Manual tells you in general terms what the augmentations are, but not what they could achieve.
snow void
I have the modification description you gave, which is the most that exists
snow void
You can see Johnson's achievements fighting side by side with Chief very well throughout the original trilogy
versed helm
Statements like that are, in my eyes, too general to be applicable.
They skip over practicality.
snow void
Apart from that, the augmentations were so invasive it killed most of them, and so far there's been a steady stream of Spartan augmentations since the Orion project getting weaker and weaker
versed helm
I don't believe it killed most of them on the operating table. Wasn't it more a gradual failure over time situation?
snow void
Kinda gotta use context, but imo there's no reason to assume that the Orion project did nothing but make him less tasty to Flood
I think it did kill a lot over time, but that could still be evidence of it's effectiveness on whichever survive
versed helm
I don't even accept that as true, in light of Staten's comments on the issue and what we see in Breaking Quarantine.
I think ORION's effectiveness would lie in allowing soldiers to operate in high-stress situations for longer periods of time.
To stave off fatigue.
snow void
Except it killed them all and only worked for Spartan II's
versed helm
It seems to me that it is about taking a soldier as we know it and improving them, rather than redefining what it is to be a soldier, as Spartan II did.
snow void
I still believe Sgt Johnson's as strong as the average Spartan II outside of armor, just far less skilled, and could appear weaker due to inexperience
versed helm
That's like, the reverse of what's intuitive for me.
He certainly wouldn't be as strong. He lacks even the physical dimensions.
But he could account for it with skill and experience.
As he does in Silent Storm, actually.
A book you really ought to read.
He and a bunch of ODSTs end up getting the best of armoured Spartan IIs in a training exercise consistently thanks to his experience.
snow void
Well Spartan II's were near perfect Humans before augmentation, so of course they'd be in near pefect physical shape
I know augmentation made them taller, but the augmentation process was likely very different
The way I think of the Orion project is attempting to make the body do a lot more of the work in improving
That's just how I view it though, obviously very little information regarding it
My main topic is regarding the Precursors and Flood/Gravemind
versed helm
I think a reading of Contact Harvest and Silent Storm - which happen to be my two all-time favourite Halo books - would alter your perspective on Johnson's capabilities.
At the very least
snow void
Trust me it won't
versed helm
I don't think you could finish them and still believe him to be as strong as an un-armoured SPARTAN II
snow void
I believe in strength i.e. energy exerted, that he is
versed helm
Architect, if you could read through sources that straight-up disprove your sentiment via omission in circumstances where it would be obvious
That was the source of my earlier frustration at you
That's not a fair and balanced way of being a Halo fan
That's kinda... selfish, I guess, if you bring it into a public space like that.
snow void
Just because he's been tackled by Jackals and Grunts doesn't mean he's not capable of outputting as much power as an unarmored Spartan II
versed helm
And quite irrational.
Well, I've not got much more to say to you, really.
I still cannot fathom this odd notion you have
This notion that you can clearly be physically outmatched by someone
And be as strong as them
It's just
snow void
You believe that because a Jackal can touch him, that he must be a normal weak Human, that's a notion I cannot understand
versed helm
That's not really what I'm saying.
snow void
And the fact I can't afford to get all the Halo books back after a house fire quite long ago, and I'm not 100% up on lore and don't know about a single fight scene, I'm somehow "inconsiderate"
versed helm
It's inconsiderate to conduct yourself as if you have a complete understanding when you don't.
And I'm very sorry to say that.
snow void
You're arguing over a single fight scene
radiant sphinx
You’re not inconsiderate, just a bit close-minded. It’s pretty ballsy to say reading up on extensive lore absolutely wont change your perspective
snow void
Not once did I say I know everything about that fight scene
versed helm
If you don't know everything, the reasonable thing to do would be to assume that your mind could be changed.
And it's not just a fight scene
It's an entire book
snow void
I'm not close-minded, I know what I believe, and I know a scene where a Jackal tackles him isn't going to change my mind, we literaly just talked about the scene
versed helm
Avery gets into a scuffle with another Marine, Staff Sergeant Byrne
He is very nearly overpowered
Avery fornicates with an ONI officer
snow void
Yes, my mind can change, but the best evidence you gave to support the idea that the book can change my mind, was that a Jackal grapples him
versed helm
It is not evident to this officer that he is stronger than she'd expect him to be
snow void
What's that from?
versed helm
Avery is in combat many times, and not once does he do anything that a regular Marine with his experience and training wouldn't be able to do
Contact Harvest
snow void
Except for wrestle an Elite
versed helm
In CEA?
versed helm
He briefly
Uses two hands and a weapon
To briefly
Push back
Against one hand
At a difficult angle for the Arbiter
On what planet
Does that mean that they're in any way comparable, given that the follow-up is him getting completely wrecked
snow void
You can still push someone without needing to be able to overpower them
versed helm
That's what I'm saying
Johnson didn't overpower the Arbiter
Like at all
He survived against one hand
For a moment
snow void
However you use a scene in a book where he's pushed as evidence that he's being overpowered by another marine?
How do you think Spartans hold against Brutes without being able to overpower them?
versed helm
After recovering from his injuries, Byrne was reassigned, along with Johnson, to train the Colonial Militia on Harvest. He had felt great resentment at Johnson's hesitation on Tribute, and picked a fight with him as soon as he arrived on Harvest. Byrne had almost killed Johnson if Captain Ponder had not intervened.
snow void
That doesn't show him being overpowered
The reason I point that out is because I'm on that page of the book right now
I believe it's quite reasonable that Johnson could be beaten and almost or even killed by someone far weaker in physical strength than him
snow void
versed helm
Are you able to join chat?
I can read it to you, if you'd like.
Byrne throws him around.
He holds him in place
Johnson is able to fight back by being crafty
BYRNE ENDS THE SCENE THROTTLING HIM
Well, Ponder intervenes, that ends the scene.
But Ponder intervenes as Johnson is being throttled.
snow void
Is there another fight scene you're referring to?
snow void
"throttle" isn't in the book here
versed helm
So it's smaller and doesn't line up with the standalone.
He blinked his eyes against the pain, giving Byrne an opening. The other staff sergeant quickly throttled him around the neck. "They taught you to be a killer, Avery. They taught us both." Byrne slid him up the wall until his boots were twitching half a meter off the floor.
Previews are incomplete, you poor bloody fool.
This has gone on long enough.
If you can't see how ridiculous your perspective is, I can't help you.
I'm truly sorry
Take care now
snow void
This book doesn't cut off mid fight
So, choking someone isn't overpowering them especially after a beating
You're not correct there, nice try mr condescending
spring fulcrum
What's the topic, lads?
snow void
Yeah, nothing in this fight shows Johnson being actually overpowered physically, the closest is when he's being bear hugged, which he got out of with a headbutt
@spring fulcrum Johnson's strength from Orion augmentation
spring fulcrum
Uh...ORION augs aren't actually that huge, you know?
snow void
It's never specified, that's only the general idea
They were at least strong enough to kill most of the subjects
spring fulcrum
I honestly don't get you
snow void
This book came out in 2007
I'm sure you know @versed helm which book first establishes that Sgt Johnson's a Spartan I? I can't find one earlier apart from a mention in 2003's The Flood, but the google book doesn't go further, only links it to the Spartan program, nothing to do with Johnson in it's mention but might be cut out
Is it mentioned in Contact Harvest?
If it is I'm an idiot
Ok good it isn't
spring fulcrum
ORION was barely successful in augmenting humans efficiently: the whole project was shut down because it was unsuccessful..
versed helm
I believe it's in the Halo Graphic Novel.
The intent was to establish an alternate reason for Johnson's Flood escape.
snow void
Well actually it is mentioned in Contact Harvest, but not about Spartans or anything
versed helm
Bungie hated what Nylund had done in First Strike, with Boren's Syndrome.
So they seem to have used ORION as a way of preserving the Flood's lethality (they'll infect anyone on the spot), as well as using the opportunity to make some more interesting backstory for Johnson.
snow void
Is that when it was established?
versed helm
Breaking Quarantine is supposed to show Johnson fighting his way out, as opposed to First Strike's notion of him being momentarily left alone.
In my understanding, yes.
snow void
Oh, welp the google book version of it doesn't work
Lets you search but I assume that doesn't work, shows 2 results for Johnson but no text
versed helm
It's a fairly widely circulated page. A few ORION bullet points, and a photograph of Johnson operating an M99 stanchion, related to the assassination of a rebel leader.
snow void
Yeah, think I found it
versed helm
Paired with Breaking Quarantine, it's meant to show Johnson's exceptional soldiery and quick-thinking saving him from the Flood, not any weird rejection.
Also I promise you
That if you thoroughly read the Johnson/Byrne fight in CH all the way through
It will be pretty clear that Byrne is much stronger than him
snow void
It's not in depth and it's all cryptic and very small text on a very low quality image, RIP
versed helm
I can confirm that it was taken by the community, possibly in relation to a statement by Bungie, that Johnson was at that point part of ORION.
Like, for years that's been the case.
Well before Silent Storm or the Spartan Field Manual were overt about it.
snow void
I mean, it's very specific that Avery didn't want to hunt Byrne, just wanted him knocked out. Also specifies that Avery only threw a "half-speed" punch that didn't land, then later, he collapsed Byrne in 2(sorta) hits, "countered with a power, right-handed swipe. As Byrne's head snapped sideways, Avery brought a knee up into his kidneys. But Byrne collapsed against the blow." that's not the end, but it shows how much only really one hit did
versed helm
I will admit that's strong, naturally.
But is it Spartan II out of armour strong?
Or Elite strong?
Really?
Spartan IIs out of armour needed to train with instructors in exosuits for the latter's safety.
snow void
Well Byrne's described as a very large man
I know Spartan II's could beat multiple marines in combat without armor
But that's still while trying to do that to be fair
Avery didn't want to hurt Byrne
versed helm
As the fight progressed, Avery got more and more full-on as Byrne showed how vicious he was.
And actually
If I'm not mistaken~
snow void
A Spartan II also has much better training and experience, not just winning from raw physical strength
versed helm
After Ponder breaks up the fight, he gives the Marines a chance to get one final lick in.
snow void
Oh, they fight again?
versed helm
Well it's like a "have you got anything else to get out of your system" type thing.
Johnson refuses to hit Byrne, Byrne smashes Johnson, and then Johnson finally smashed Byrne, and they call it quits.
Johnson knocks out one of Byrne's teeth.
A powerful hit.
But not that powerful.
'Course, you're just gonna make the argument that Johnson was still holding back
And this is gonna go nowhere
versed helm
I just don't see any room in that fight for Johnson having anything approaching Spartan or Elite strength.
snow void
Pretty good for being an inch from death a few seconds ago
versed helm
Especially in the moments where Byrne's trying to end him.
Like, if Johnson had such a tremendous amount of strength
Could he not have peeled off Byrne's arms?
Or kicked him?
snow void
Well, without trying to really hurt Byrne until the end, he still collapsed the guy in pretty much one hit
versed helm
It was a vicious hit
You don't need to be a Spartan to collapse a guy
A Spartan (or Elite hit) is like, major damage.
snow void
He did try to kick him while being strangled, but likely couldn't reach
snow void
Still though he didn't really wanna hurt him
A Spartan or Elite, that's likely intentionally trying to kill someone
versed helm
You're arguing from the perspective of "just because it doesn't say he isn't"
Not
"There's evidence that he is this strong"
snow void
Isn't? He says that he didn't want to kill the man
versed helm
"Just because it doesn't say he isn't as strong as an Elite or Spartan II"
snow void
So you're arguing that because Johnson doesn't want to kill his fellow soldiers, he must be physically weak?
versed helm
You're intent on grasping at straws to show that in all these situations, your theory could still hold true.
But you have no evidence to the affirmative.
Just excuses.
snow void
I get a feeling because of earlier you're still thinking of armored Spartans and Elites
snow void
Johnson collapsed the dude while not trying to hurt him, in a punch, that's very similar to Spartans outside of armor
versed helm
No.
snow void
And it's a buff dude
versed helm
Honestly, the only thing this is proving is my lack of self control.
I should not be humouring you by now.
This is absurd.
I'm shutting down Discord now.
snow void
So, you're so outraged that your opinion has no proof, and because I have more evidence for my opinion, you every time claim me to be absurd.
Proved your lack of self control 
Welcome back
versed helm
Spartans outside of armour were deemed so dangerous that instructors had to be sealed away in power armour for their own safety.
Johnson getting in a few well-placed slugs is NOT REMOTELY EQUIVALENT TO THAT
snow void
Yup, you can also see John beat up some ODST's in The Fall of Reach
versed helm
Elites heft Marines off the ground, hurl them around like playthings.
They could tear them limb from limb.
Johnson does not have that strength.
if he had that kind of strength
snow void
He hit the guy once and collapsed him, just like John did, didn't knock him out with the one punch
versed helm
He'd never have been allowed back into the pool of regular Marines
People would begin to ask
"Why is this man stronger than it should be possible for a human to be"
snow void
Well we don't see unarmored Elites fighting Humans, not that I recall
Yeah, maybe if Johnson went around beating up other marines and stood 7 feet tall
snow void
Why would he go around beating up marines???
versed helm
There's no such thing as "potential strength".
Your entire argument is based on this ludicrous, pathetic logical fallacy
snow void
You're assuming that for someone to be strong, they have to want to kill their co-workers
versed helm
This idea of some absurd "he's as strong as a Spartan or an Elite but nowhere as big"
"And he can rarely use his strength is an obvious way"
"Because he has short arms"
snow void
You're saying that knocking someone to the ground while severely holding back isn't that strong
versed helm
Like, how are you not cognisant of how ABSURD you sound?
Everything you say is just grasping at straws
Everything you say is unfounded
snow void
He can't push a Jackal further than his arms can reach, can you not visualize that?
I've used all of your sources
snow void
It's exact quotes
keen canopy
Go home Architect, you're drunk
versed helm
There is no basis for Johnson having the same strength as an Elite or SII
Armour or not
snow void
Man I've been quoting him his own stuff what do you mean
versed helm
It just isn't happening
snow void
He collapsed a buff marine with one hit while holding back
versed helm
You've been stretching and contorting quotes 'till they serve your own end
subtle jewel
I didnt read but Im for Architect
snow void
He parried the Arbiter's attacks, despite losing at a huge disadvantage anyways
versed helm
You've been sucking the soul out of every bit of info I've given you
snow void
Your claim is that because a Jackal tackled him, he's super weak
versed helm
And twisting it
keen canopy
And a Spartan II could pierce his index through a marine's torso if he wanted sir
snow void
@keen canopy We're talking outside of armor
snow void
Then that's just exaggeration that adds nothing
keen canopy
Keyes describes Spartans sparring as too fast to follow with the naked eye
snow void
I'm not arguing speed
keen canopy
I mean go read the exact augmentations listed in the fall of reach
snow void
Johnson has nothing on Spartan speed
keen canopy
yo
versed helm
You idiot
keen canopy
you done physics?
snow void
You mad boyos
versed helm
Speed is strength when it comes to hits.
keen canopy
F= MA
snow void
Speed isn't all the strength, and speed can refer to reaction and such which is the main thing
snow void
Spartan II's have near instant reaction time
You're mad because I took all of your sources and turned them on you with quotes from your own sources
versed helm
I have disproved everything you've said every step of the way.
snow void
You provided a cite
versed helm
You just haven't realized it.
snow void
I showed where that cite supports me
versed helm
Because you're too dumb.
snow void
Simply stating that I'm wrong goes nowhere
keen canopy
I'm out, have fun with that theory man
snow void
Now you resort to petty insults with nothing to add
versed helm
You're too dumb to realize that the faster a punch is thrown, the more kinetic energy it has.
keen canopy
😂
snow void
That's not my argument however
subtle jewel
it's so distracting
fair hazel
Calm down
snow void
I'm arguing raw strength output
versed helm
You're too dumb to realize that Johnson having any kind of strength parallel with a Spartan II or Elite would change the very nature of the fights he's in.
He wouldn't allow himself to be thrown around.
snow void
Except what I said follows the whole scenario of the fights
versed helm
You're too dumb to understand what I just said
fair hazel
Looters no name calling
snow void
And it follows how Spartan II's outside of armor are depicted fighting, and their capabilities
fair hazel
And Johnson or Orion are no where near spartan 2s
snow void
That's just the generally accepted idea cause it's not explicitly said
fair hazel
No it’s not
snow void
Will do
snow void
This chat's for lore discussion, not petty insults
versed helm
"I'll vector two heavies for starside intercept"
spring fulcrum
Wow this is still going on
snow void
If Spartan II's outside of armor are so much stronger than Johnson, then The Fall of Reach is false, as well as alot of other depictions, and either way Johnson's still depicted being quite strong for just a normal Human marine being able to collapse a big buff staff sergeant while near death and not wanting to fight back
versed helm
He wasn't near death, nor was he holding back at the time he delivered those hits.
But that's okay
You just lie about that
fair hazel
What you believe in your head does not dictate what canon is.
What canon is, is something fans don’t decide.
Now if we could actually move on to something worthwhile to discuss
fair hazel
I’d really really like to.
But would they go down that path? It would be cool seeing too as he has personal history with zeta halo
keen canopy
Would be a nice throwback to CE, which is what they're going for
keen canopy
And connects with the EU like you say
fair hazel
I don’t like that term
snow void
Here, some quotes from your source material: "about to pass out" "The barrack's flourescent lights seemed to dim, and Avery saw stars" "tasted blood in his mouth" "Avery wasn't trying to kill his fellow marine" "countered with a powerful, right-handed swipe." "Byrne collapsed against the blow", etc. etc. this takes forever to quote laying down
fair hazel
But would they really do it?
The direction infinite is taking I don’t know if they’d take the opportunity to add spark as a main element
We might see some chakas stuff on the ring. Maybe some type of terminal type stuff.
keen canopy
Yea I see everything as a universal canon also, but for discussing the games, 343 kinda have to prioritize catering towards the majority, who only know the games
spring fulcrum
Lemme get this straight: you're just assuming that since he wasn't putting his full strength in whatever encounter you're quoting (sorry too lazy to read all the stuff), he has the capability to be stronger than S-IIs and Sangheili?
snow void
Btw what's generally accepted isn't always what's actually canon, it's evident he's way stronger than the average marine, nothing says Orion augmentation was weak, it only killed a lot of subjects and because of that, was very unsuccessful.
fair hazel
It’d be interesting if we saw the village and structures from primordium
snow void
I never said he's stronger than a Spartan II or Sangheili
fair hazel
Move on.
fair hazel
Spark would be excellent. I hope they do. If they do, well honestly just explain things well. P
keen canopy
woah, the lightbulb has a body now? cool
fair hazel
John wouldn’t know, so you have a moment where John gets explained. And you tie that to explaining to new players/not knowledgeable playefs
snow void
Idk, I've heard a lot of complaints about how Spark shouldn't come back and shouldn't have come back in a book either due to the importance of his death
Wouldn't mind him though since he's back in canon anyways
keen canopy
That's kinda the whole direction they're taking with Infinite
Chief is waking up not knowing wtf happened
And with the time skip... so are we 😃
So having some little expositional Spark dialogue to explain his revival and body etc would fit right in IMO
fair hazel
We know there will be connections with material. But to what extent.
Honestly the problem was never that they tied to the other median
Media. The problem was that they didn’t explain it well for people not in the know
keen canopy
Ye so so many amazing ideas and plans, just poor execution
But I like every single thing I've heard about Infinite so far
2020 is the first year of the second age of Halo ladies and gentleman, Spartans and Elites
Goodnight and godspeed
terse lava
I wouldn't mind seeing the game finally showing why humanity was chosen for the mantle over every other race
humble yacht
Cause humans are especiale
terse lava
but why? For a their faults, the forerunners at least made a shelter for other races when fighting the flood. Never saw ancient humans gathering other races for safety, never saw them develop a plan for if they failed
sand tiger
anyone know why the stealth elites where light brown in halo 2?
terse lava
Likely as just new color variant, and a backup for I'd the camo goes down. They wear.pure grey too
sand tiger
gray armor i can understand since it's an easy color to overlook
light brown is just noticeable
terse lava
Not fully, look at environment they are in. Brown/ dark yellow buildings and tunnels.
sand tiger
true
wintry coral
I guess robots are Humans/Forerunners that are digitized by a Forerunner weapon and are placed into a metal body
Yes
I'll be honest, I used to think that Crawlers were composed Dogs/Cats
But they aren't
No idea
Faber may have
fair hazel
Prometheans are the elite rate of forerunner warrior servants.🤨
wintry coral
But I'm not sure
fair hazel
The composed entities of forerunners and humans became the prométhéen knights
wintry coral
^
fair hazel
The didact created watchers and crawlers too to supplement his knights
Forerunners made use of armigers , such as the soldier.
dim imp
Are there other armigers that the soldiers ?
I don't see why they would feel pain, adding "pain" captors on the knight would be pointless I think
dim imp
Yes but when damage doesn't really harm you because of your thick armour, does it matter ?
fair hazel
Damage does harm you..
fair hazel
It is damage
The composed essences seems to feel stuff.
It lets it out.
From its carapace
dim imp
But like, if you spray with an SMG on a knight, it won't react
Yes, so they probably don't have pain captors
Composing a human makes it an AI, doesn't it ?
fair hazel
Pain would be different for a composed essence
dim imp
But like, even if you capture all of the human consciousness, if the body doesn't have pain captors, the composed one shouldn't feel pain
dark scroll
The new body may have pain receptors.
dim imp
But at the same time, they act weird when you destroy the orange bulbs in their arm pits, like if they feel pain
Is that a reflex or real pain ?
I guess we can only speculate but will never know
dark scroll
Both.
Pain receptors would be vital for the essence to assess damage, especially with the damage the Composer causes to consciousness.
dim imp
When you kill one, it poses like if it convulsed of pain or something
After all, they may feel pain 😮
But do you feel the body disintegrateing ? Like, you can't feel something that just vanished
Yeah... Poor guys, we are bringing pains to older humans and forerunners that asked for nothing
humble yacht
What is pain really? It’s electrical signals
A composed essence can still be sent a signal that it interprets as pain
It doesn’t even need a body for that
sacred dew
Well the composers forge does have a wall of souls and look like there in pain
Essences,souls,spirits,same difference
pulsar ore
pixelator
sacred dew
Digimon
tired river
So how did elites view brute weapons? Like did they ever compare their plasma rifle to the brute one?
humble yacht
I wouldn’t call a Brute Plasma Rifle a true “brute” weapon. More likely, brute technicians played with the settings on some Plasma Rifles to make them more suitable for jiralhanae
sacred dew
Probably saw them as primitive but effective
humble yacht
But for actual brute weapons, I imagine sangheili would look at them and think “so uncivilized”
You never see elites using those weapons.
sacred dew
The Brute shot saids it all
tall moat
Oh no, I’m not brave enough for politics
tired river
Technically brute plasma rifles were designed to be brute weapons
humble yacht
I think in H3, even if you hand an elite a hammer, they can’t use it
sacred dew
Excerpt the player
tall moat
Why has no one created an Elite with Brute tendencies?
I wanna see some custom drawings, figures, renders anything!
tired river
The modifications tailored specifically to brutes would have been seen as heretical if truth himself didn’t bless them
humble yacht
That would be for #471727324895641651
sacred dew
Ripa does kinda act like a brute
humble yacht
Any species can be capable of cruelty
tall moat
@humble yacht Just realising that Elites donning Brute weaponry and armor is non-existent in my experience
humble yacht
Banished huragok are not cruel
tall moat
The Banished are aesthethicc I hope they’re the main antagonist faction of Infinite
humble yacht
Banished huragok are just treated cruelly
tired river
Banished Huragok are treated so poorly they turned aggressive
They’re not inherently cruel but they just picked up aggressive tendencies
sacred dew
Voridus one are mutated and act different and can sabotage u if u mess with them or they don't like u
tall moat
Infusion
sacred dew
They were exposed to science!!!
tall moat
And the power of anime
humble yacht
They may have become slightly more aggressive but they still aren’t cruel
sacred dew
Cruel no
Little rascals that may get u killed yes
terse lava
Think the Covenant have any proper holidays?
sand tiger
i've always wondered this, do the brutes have their own version of percission weapons?
humble yacht
Hm
remote spruce
i imagine a good deal of religious holidays
terse lava
@sand tigerlikely some.form we have not seen yet
carmine sleet
If they had one, it would likely be a weapon with lots of recoil
remote spruce
spikers could be modified
humble yacht
It would probably be a weapon that could OHK anywhere on the body
Like the binary rifle
Except it would be explosive and have a knife attached somewhere
sand tiger
like i'm picturing a brute with a small railgun type sniper rifle with a blade along the barrel
terse lava
Sangheili precision: hitting an enemy in the head from miles away
Brute precision: hitting the enemy, his team, and the entire battlefield
humble yacht
Explosive dart gun!
slow crag
Nice
sand tiger
i'm also just picturing like a brute hunting rifle as their version of the dmr or carbine
terse lava
Maybe the stalker uniform was modified civilian hunting clothes
sand tiger
it differently gives a hunting vibe
terse lava
And works for a world that was pretty much Fallout: brute edition
sand tiger
i would pay good money for that to be a mod for fallout 4
terse lava
Actually come to think of it, I wonder how much time passed between their nuclear war and the covenant's arrivals
sand tiger
most likely a good i'm gonna guess 10 years
remote spruce
long enough for them to start recovering
terse lava
Yea, they got radio andv rockets back by t hff e time
Wouldbactially think longer then 10 though
A century perhaps?
sacred dew
U what I find funny that brute pilots are better than elite pilots due to there pack like mentally
carmine sleet
I never found Brutes to be better pilots
tired river
They never were
They were just bad strategists in general. The elites were outnumbered 3 to 1 at the ark and still won
sand tiger
they at least stay together
carmine sleet
Staying together is not always the good option
wintry coral
Yeah
sand tiger
true
wintry coral
A group of Brutes gets shot by a SPNKR or one of them gets stuck and it's over
It can get worse than that
sand tiger
i was more talking about the brutes as pilots
wintry coral
Elites are still better imo
sacred dew
Um am talking sepra pilota in warfleet it saids there pack like mentally makes them work together better than the elites who usually seek personal glory
sand tiger
i can see that yea
slow crag
I heard the elites had better ships and cruisers than the brutes thats why they still won at the ark
Idk if its true
Still the elites are better strategist
stoic shale
Elites were better in everyway. The brutes most likely had less ships, or they were just worse.
gilded mason
I think it might have been the opposite regarding ships. Think there was something about Truth secretly supplying Brutes with more advanced ships in the lead up to the Schism.
sand tiger
i think the elites won the ark space battle mainly cause the brutes weren't used to ship to ship combat
dim imp
I think that may be due to the "brutality" of the brutes (no pun intended)
You have to open parts of the ship shield to fire, exposing yourself for a short time. The brute may have abused that and exposed themselves way more than needed and the elite would except that
In addition to that, I think there were more Elite shipmasters that Brute ones before in the Covenant, thus better experience
sacred dew
How did the grunts eat people on ceti if they needed mask to breath?
humble yacht
Dangerously
jaunty latch
I do think grunts do unless they are given small portions
And especially not on a human world
Do to them only able to breath methane
past wave
I kinda feel bad for grunts
jaunty latch
I don’t *
Grunts are interesting and so are jackals
Grunts can be theoretically be advanced race if they didn’t plumped it their planet
stoic hamlet
They were known to rip people apart on Draco III and Sigma Octanus
past wave
Jackals are just non extinct dinos
stoic hamlet
Jericho VII a well
past wave
That have plasma pistols and shields
jaunty latch
Jackals are very similar to humans in terms of government and business
Maybe not as close to human government
But close in business aspect
past wave
Are elites similar to humans? I mean they have like a different belief and structure
jaunty latch
Not really unless I’m warrior aspect
gilded mason
I imagine some Elite cultures will be more similar to humans' than others
jaunty latch
In*
past wave
Also I thinks its weird how they talk
jaunty latch
Like Spartans
past wave
They dont have jaws or tongues
gilded mason
They got tongues
jaunty latch
Yeah
past wave
Really?
gilded mason
Ye
dim imp
An elite sticking out the tongue would be ultra scary
jaunty latch
I kinda want see a female elite
past wave
Those exist?
jaunty latch
Or a cilivain clothed one
gilded mason
They look the same as males.
jaunty latch
But in game though
humble yacht
You hear one in 5
jaunty latch
But not see her in action
gilded mason
Imagine one of the Elites you see in the Arbiter's camp as female, and there ya go.
past wave
I thought elites are uhh G cause well no females and the conversations in halo 3 are weird
humble yacht
You see female elites in Halo Legends
past wave
Halo what now?
humble yacht
Legends
past wave
Whats that?
jaunty latch
But I want to see them in a halo game fighting though
humble yacht
It’s an animated anthology
past wave
Uuuuu
gilded mason
I thought elites are uhh G cause well no females and the conversations in halo 3 are weird
I imagine there's a certain amount of Sangheili that prefer the company of their own gender.
jaunty latch
I liked homecoming
gilded mason
Just remember that the visuals in Legends aren't nessessarily true.
jaunty latch
Do you guys consider homecoming canon
obsidian thistle
Yes
humble yacht
Yes
jaunty latch
In halo legends
gilded mason
It is canon, so.
humble yacht
Events are canon
past wave
Idk what that is
humble yacht
Odd one out is the only non-canon story in legends
jaunty latch
But I wondered why she didn’t have shields?
obsidian thistle
Well even Daisys not-CQB can be canon now. Thanks Animated (plus outside stuff backing it up) Fall of Reach.
jaunty latch
That part confused me
carmine sleet
Mark IV didn't have shields
gilded mason
Yup
jaunty latch
Really?
obsidian thistle
7 if you only count Mjolnir GEN1
past wave
Woah woah there are generations?
gilded mason
How many marks there are?
Exoskeleton stuff, Mark 4, Mark 5, Mark 6, Mark 7, GEN2, GEN3
past wave
Man I should read a book sometime
obsidian thistle
Or a wiki ;)
gilded mason
jaunty latch
I wonder how supier gen 3 is to 2
obsidian thistle
Uncertain
We havent seen it in action outside of minor glimpses in Trailers. And concept ideas in a book.
past wave
You guys know red vs blue right? Are they even canon?
gilded mason
No
past wave
Cause I remember in halo reach there was an easter egg where you go to halsey's lab and there are some files that mention rvb
obsidian thistle
Red Vs Blue cant be canon. Unless you count the easter egg in Halo 3 where the voice actors from it voice unnamed characters at a door.
Its just too messy otherwise with canon
past wave
Yeah your right
humble yacht
RvB is not canon. Easter eggs in halo are generally not canon
obsidian thistle
*And trust me I tried as a fun experinent to make it work. Its broken via episode 1 with the location. XD Even ignoring locations its still messy via timeline, and weapons.
past wave
You ever wonder why were here?
humble yacht
To talk about halo. Duh
past wave
Yeah
obsidian thistle
But yea the "only" RvB egg that "can" be canon in any form is the nameless Door marines in Crows Nest. And thats cause it doesnt break any 4th wall, can be viewed as not Red Vs Blue, and fits in normally. That said its not fitting anything of RvB into canon bar the voice actors lol
humble yacht
Except the dialogue changes depending on difficulty
So even if their presence is canon
The actual convo is not
obsidian thistle
Or 1 convo is canon. And the other 3 isnt. Regardless 343i wont ever reveal that xD
Plus its not important
past wave
Anyone knows what are hunters made out of?
obsidian thistle
Lekgolo colonies
past wave
Bugs?
obsidian thistle
Aka Eel like aliens that are really really smart
past wave
Oh its a group of snakes
past wave
Or Assembly of snakes
obsidian thistle
That will help
feral perch
Hot take: TFoR = Manga; FoR = Anime, FoR Animated = Netflix Adaptation
past wave
Thanks
obsidian thistle
@feral perch only thing to consider is.
If a part of the adaptions dont conflict. Its canon.
feral perch
Right
obsidian thistle
So for example. While the book doesnt go over a lil backstory of Colonel Robert Watts. The comic does. And to this day. Zero media has contradicted it. Infact later and then-concurrent media decided to support it.
obsidian thistle
However here is an example of a contradiction. The Comic goes over how "Red team" during the fall of Reach stays together and fights off covenant together. This contradicts First Strike as they split up before any major fighting happens. Later media also supports the book version.
*Granted this is an issue probably born from the fact the book and First Strike still dont aline 100% thanks to what some may call an oversight on Eric Nylunds part.
terse lava
You know, I wonder if the halo fleet battles will ever make a return. Not as the tabletop they were trying, but collectables
versed helm
they should make a HW game with space battles also
versed helm
That would be awesome
sacred dew
There was concept art for one
halcyon remnant
gilded mason
A Contender-class AI that the Forerunners used to combat the Flood, before it later defected.
obsidian thistle
Still kinda sad he murdered a Forerunner AI who was willing to talk to us in 2007, to send us a message that kinda amounted to nothing being done.
He essentially stopped us progressing to send us the "Meet me at the Ark" message.
gilded mason
pretty rude tbh
obsidian thistle
Funny thing. We actually have no idea what Adjutant Reflex was trying to tell us before Mendicant Bias got near (somehow), attacked it, killed, and hijacked its body.
That said we got a rad ARG outta that story. But it in theory still stopped us progressing as fast.
terse lava
Heh I remember that, dont forget we also had.living forerunners watching humanity all this time too.
obsidian thistle
If you are refering about the odd Catalog unit thats been doing its thing
Thats been active since around the Great Schism in 2552.
Spark was looking for it
But he never got it it
And last we heard. It was trying to uncover the mystery at the Edom Terminal/Juricidal facility in 2558.
(FYI thats still a loose end)
terse lava
No no, I was referring to the pre- halo 3 stuff
sacred dew
@CIA391Is that same catalog guilty spark speaks to in renegades
obsidian thistle
One could say that. It is the only Catalog unit we know is kicking around.
versed helm
yes
unique rune
They might have had some type of Smart AI equivalent, but Covenant mandates would have severely limited their capabilities.
Cortana encountered a Covenant AI that she suspected had been repeatedly copied from a captured human AI, IIRC.
But for the most part the Covenant didn’t trust artificial intelligences enough because of the trouble Mendicant Bias caused for the Forerunners.
unique rune
I don’t remember if they specifically knew about Mendicant Bias, but they were able to translate and interpret Forerunner records that talked about his betrayal, if I remember correctly.
snow void
The Covenant AI interested me because it seemed to know what the rings did, at least to an extent
terse lava
Yea, though curiously, I think this may have been later in Covenant history. Broken Circle, no one covenant talks bad of ai, and even mentions robots were helping build high charity. Closest we get to negative was ussa and his group, commenting on the ai in high charity being crazy, and two thinking Bias of the shield world being a dark angel
tame crystal
i just had a realisation about halo 2. you know how at the start they sorta juxtapose chief and arbiter, with chief receiving medals and arbiter being branded a heretic?
they sorta continue that in the game's music! chief's levels tend to have upbeat music filled with wonder, while arbiter's levels have more quiet and foreboding music
remote spruce
i mean when your allies carry a beam rifle in close quarters combat i would be sad too
carmine sleet
Or a fuel rod with no regard of who or where they're pointing it as they fire
remote spruce
in that case i'll take the beam rifle elite
carmine sleet
Same here
polar elm
Two questions:
- What are the blue pulses we see fired towards the center of the ring in Halo CE? I could only find a 2012 Halo Waypoint post without a definite answer.
- Whatever happened to the plot thread of Cortana examining Covenant AI onboard Ascendant Justice? She said it looked extremely familiar. Is this picked up on somewhere?
If it is, just tell me where to look, not the answer outright.
remote spruce
i can't remember the second one other than theories
the first one may also be speculation
polar elm
Cool. Can't find the answers to everything I suppose.
versed helm
+~)) {
+~)) {
#@>& +~)) {
^+@[) @;-<@-~ & {] {<] # #} ~@(
Looks like we got a crazy AI up in here
slow crag
Somebody get cortana out of his head
sand tiger
what ever happened to the spectre in lore?
versed helm
Same thing that happened to every vehicle and weapon that popped up in a game and disappeared later on.
It was still used in the universe, but the games provide a narrow slice which isn't always entirely accurate when it comes to the minutiae of arms, armour and gear.
More than likely it was less common during the events of the games in which you don't see it than the events of Halo 2, but it's still certainly a part of the universe that you'd see from time to time in use with the Covenant (and the Covenant's splinter factions).
Another example would be the assault rifle during Halo 2. Just because it wasn't seen in that game, doesn't mean the UNSC temporarily phased them out of service, but it might mean that the Marine contingents assigned to Earth's defensive elements tended to favour the BR55 over the MA5 during the earlier stages of the Battle of Earth, bleeding into the Battle of Installation 05.
sand tiger
ah ok
tbh when i first played halo 2 i thought that the cario station and in amber clad just didn't have the MA5 in their armory
versed helm
That's basically what I meant.
sand tiger
ah yea
keen canopy
It's possible that Spectres were mostly used by Covenant Spec-Ops teams, as in Halo 2 we only ever saw them where Spec-Ops forces were present
It's interesting to me that Bungie didn't put any Spectres in the vehicle-heavy UNSC missions. They're only in The Arbiter's missions.
feral perch
Brutes used Spectres on The Great Journey
versed helm
Indeed.
But it is also interesting that Chief never encountered them.
It is highly possible that the Brutes took them from elements of Rtas' unit which they killed, assuming Rtas' unit were those to which these vehicles were assigned.
I could almost see them being the alien equivalent of the kind of hardy, lightweight jeeps and buggies human special forces have been so fond of since WW2.
polar elm
Civilians lost on Harvest seems a little wonky. TFoR and all other media apart from CH establish 3m inhabitants but er, in CH they manage to save ~250k. So that would put the casualties at over 2.5m. But Halopedia quotes from the Halo Encyclopedia that there were 23k casualties during the first Battle of Harvest. Can anyone clarify?
versed helm
I would like to preface any theorizing here with the idea that life can often be made easier if you ignore the Halo Encyclopedia.
It is a little bit of a farce.
In your mind, would there be room for that number to encompass only military casualties?
Given the context, I mean.
Possibly relating to the UNSC's attempts to retake the planet, or some stage of them.
polar elm
I haven't made it through Cole Protocol yet and I assume that's covered in the page Second Battle of Harvest.
versed helm
And I would also suggest that Contact Harvest would be the authority on the size of Harvest's population.
polar elm
So I assume that number couldn't possibly encompass military casualties only. Additionally, I think there was little to no military presence on the planet as the Governor was against it.
versed helm
Over any other source, basically. Especially TFoR.
polar elm
Aye we all get the idea that you don't like TFoR.
versed helm
I love TFoR.
It's one of my favourite books of all time.
Might be some of the best sci-fi ever published. Certainly better than any other video game EU material.
polar elm
Alright alright my bad.
versed helm
But, as I said with the Encyclopedia, from a modern lore-lover standpoint, life is often simpler if you ignore it, should it contradict anything.
Contact Harvest provides a very in-depth look at the planet and people of Harvest.
polar elm
Well I kinda liked the 3m established in TFoR cause it really drives home how extensive the genocide is.
versed helm
Do you have what it says the planet's population to be handy?
polar elm
Nope
versed helm
300,000, allegedly.
So if you say that 250,000 made it offworld, the Encyclopedia number begins to make more sense.
But, as I said before, life is often easier if you ignore the Encyclopedia.
I would not hold an interpretation that says 3 million people lived on Harvest and most died to be faulty, given the sources.
I think it's perfectly reasonable.
Up to you, really.
polar elm
Erm, okay. Thanks!
One more
The Luminary aboard er, whatever the second ship was, claimed to have detected an Oracle. I assume that was erroneous?
versed helm
Forgive me
I'm not really prepared to delve into that rn
I'm only about halfway through re-reading CH as is
versed helm
I'm sure someone else'll pop along to answer your questions before then xD
clear beacon
polar elm
Heh yeah
radiant sphinx
Halo: Rheumatoid Arthritis
polar elm
Old Man Chief rollin around and killin bad guys with a cigar in his mouth
I came across a Reddit thread mentioning how Blue Team and the rest of the surviving Spartan-IIs didn't get medals before Battle of Earth. Man now that that dude pointed that out, I feel disappointed.
versed helm
Where does Halo W*rs 2 take place?
humble yacht
The Ark
versed helm
No no, I meant in the timeline
gilded mason
2559 is the "when"
versed helm
Ugh, in relation to other Halo games
versed helm
Halo W*rs 2 take place after Halo 5?
Oh, oki
Thanks
Master chief ain’t 50. He was 6 during hw1, which took place in 2531. Which means by CE Master Chief was 26
deep pewter
John was 15 in 2526
remote spruce
who told you this and why
humble yacht
If Infinite takes place in 2561 as some people have theorized, then Chief will be chronologically 50 years old
versed helm
isnt he a few years younger due to cryosleep?
I think he's abt 6 or 7 years younger biologically?
Plus he is a spartan, which would mean he's still physically stronger than ever
Are there any spartans who retired from active duty? I just assumed they either died or kept fighting until they died
I know Jun escaped reach and help start the Spartan IV program, but I assumed he was still in active combat
remote spruce
Jun is sort of retired
versed helm
interesting lol. Imagine working in oni and having a colleague who's 7 and a half feet tall LOL
deep pewter
Is Jun that tall?
remote spruce
very few Spartans have actually retired, but yes augmentations + cryo make Chief biologically younger than his age
versed helm
I would assume so. He was a spartan III so he did undergo very similar augmentations to the Spartan II's
deep pewter
He’s 6’10, most SIIIs didn’t hit above 7
versed helm
ahh, didnt know that. thanks for the info
deep pewter
SIIIs didn’t receive the thyroid aug that caused such massive growth in IIs to my knowledge
versed helm
ok. thanks
remote spruce
Jun in a tux is still one of the weirdest design choices in Halo
humble yacht
it opened a slipspace portal in the middle of the ship, instead of in front of it
then it closed, taking only the middle section into slipspace
similar principle to what happened to the Forward Unto Dawn in H3
yep
no, he didn't
¯_(ツ)_/¯
it probably is still in slipspace
that portal was just for entering
there was no exit portal
Anyways, what happens when a non slipspace rated object is unprotected and enters slipspace?
high levels of radiation exposure
it's doubtful any MJOLNIR armor would be slipspace rated
even if the helmet were on
you'd need armor plating several inches thick, at least, to keep out the radiation
maybe
but humanity in the 26th century has effectively cured cancer
gilded mason
That was a fake excerpt
humble yacht
yeah someone doctored a page to make it look like and actual excerpt from the book
the lengths people go through to troll
because trolls
gilded mason
As a prank.
obsidian thistle
Yep. It ranks among the top 5 things I get queried on regarding why its missing from the wiki. XD
Number 1 is the Storm Covenant thing. Folks really love that name.
Despite it being non-canon.
gilded mason
To be fair, it is a nice name. And less confusing for differentiation than everyone simply saying "The Covenant" in-universe.
obsidian thistle
I cant quote 343i on this. But it seems like it was an attempt to not alienate fans.
gilded mason
I can't speak for all those fans, but I never knew about the Kilo-5 trilogy or anything when I started Halo 4, so I was very confused as to why something called "The Covenant" was suddenly back and we were suddenly facing Sangheili enemies.
obsidian thistle
Tbf Halo 4 (Campaign) lacking Jul in a "major" capacity was the issue there tbh
gilded mason
And I don't think they ever explained why we were facing these guys. Outside of the terminals, maybe?
remote spruce
not alienate fans?
obsidian thistle
The 1 "Prologue" terminal that 343i released explains why they are there at Requiem. But not why we are fighting them.
gilded mason
If anything, I'd think fans would be more alienated that we were fighting "The Covenant" again, since the previous game had us defeating them.
obsidian thistle
Just "Oh human ship, better attack them".
stoic hamlet
Does anyone have that quote by Grim where he says games and books are equal canon?
I have the one where he says books and games trump animated stuff
But that’s not the quote I need at the moment
remote spruce
any quote on 343i saying novels and games are equal?
stoic hamlet
Probably
gilded mason
obsidian thistle
Ok the canon is like this
Everything be canon.
BUT
Marketing and Toy Lore can be retconned if 343i choose it to be.
(I still need to add in the Toy caveat to Halopedia but it has a source)
gilded mason
Marketing and Toy Lore can be retconned if 343i choose it to be.```
I mean, *anything* can be retconned if 343 chooses to do so.*Extra note: This doesnt mean Toy lore and marketing is treated any less than Books and so on. Its just the thing 343i is more likely to let go first in the event of a contradiction.
Joyride lore actually has very solid lore if you look back at the blisters 😉
stoic hamlet
You beautiful ‘leet lover you, thank you. @gilded mason
gilded mason
😉
obsidian thistle
*It was listed on Halopedias canon policy 😉
terse lava
An odd question perhaps, but wondering,. Had Regret not retreated to delta halo, how do you think the plot.would go?
gilded mason
As in, he jumped to another location?
terse lava
No
obsidian thistle
He would of tried to recover the Conduit longer. And maybe would of actually legit recovered it and opened the Ark portal
terse lava
As in he stayed put and the reinforcements arrived
obsidian thistle
As its a popular theory that Regret fled Earth cause he lost the Conduit.
(and not cause John-117 got near)
terse lava
Huh, never heard that theory before
gilded mason
Me neither. Never even heard of it until just now.
obsidian thistle
In Spartan Strike, the Conduit is shown to be able to open portals.
terse lava
Figured he left sue to just finally getting delta hall's location found
gilded mason
In Spartan Strike
Oh that's why. 😋
obsidian thistle
And Regret did bring the Conduit to Earth.
terse lava
True
obsidian thistle
(Spartan Strike is odd about that, but Halo 2As terminals prove that)
terse lava
I can go with that, but was Wondering how things when change if he had not retreated and maintain and the Conduit in this case
obsidian thistle
So one could with any reason assume Regret hoped to open the Ark Portal with the "Conduit". And him losing it to human forces kinda forced him to flee. (The Conduit only "fled" once it reacted to Regrets slipspace jump)
So if he never fled the Conduit would of stayed in human hands.
terse lava
Hm
gilded mason
...Would've. Sorry, buggin' me. 😋
obsidian thistle
And Regret would of likely fought to recover it. Assuming he stayed and fought.
terse lava
Would have been interesting if regret had made it to the ark
dim imp
Uh... What is the Conduit ?
obsidian thistle
terse lava
A forerunner device capable of opening portals
dim imp
Thanks ><
gilded mason
Seems like its only purpose was to be a McGuffin, looking at that page.
terse lava
Pretty much
obsidian thistle
Yea but at the very least it gives one reason for the Regret leaving earth plothole.
terse lava
But so were the luminal beacons
obsidian thistle
I also love Spartan Strike for it filling up a Halo 4 plothole.
versed helm
what was the plot hole?
obsidian thistle
The "where was the Covies during the Midnight mission" plothole.
dim imp
I never saw it as a plothole, I just assumed he left Earth because they were losing with only one super carrier versus humanity
dim imp
Yeah, I will never remember the ship classification
terse lava
shrug
terse lava
Then again, had he not retreated, feel he would have won
terse lava
Really?
obsidian thistle
He would of lost
But then Humanity would of fallen at the hands of Truth shortly after as the whole "Delta Halo" scenario never happened making High Charity still be a thing.
gilded mason
I guess it'd depend on whether Truth still makes his power play
terse lava
Well mythos did say the brutes were rebelling on the ground shortly before regret fled
Had he not left, would have been a 3 way battle there
gilded mason
I believe that is his character's name.
I'd make myself Orta 'Rakom if this server allowed the use of nicknames.
limpid sky
Who is left of NOBLE team? I only remember 3 oth the team dying
gilded mason
Only Jun is still alive.
limpid sky
I thought 2 were still alive?
gilded mason
Six, Kat, Emile, Jorge, and Carter all perished.
limpid sky
Huh, thought Carter survived
gilded mason
Nope, rammed his pelican into a Scarab, I think?
limpid sky
Oh yah
terse lava
@versed helm my own thing as Ostral said
versed helm
cool thx
terse lava
Yep, although lore wise there was an Ado 'Mortumee in halo the flood...and oddly Ardo Moretumee, the commander of the Corvette you board in Reach
Lazy writing there
@gilded masoncant you just change your name to that?
gilded mason
Too much effort. 'Cause then I'd have to make a nickname for all my other servers to go back to "Ostral"
terse lava
Lovely
versed helm
Welp
It looks like scientists are beginning to hone in on definitively proving the existence of dark matter, or rather finding it
And thus
General relativity being a thing in the way Einstein envisioned
Wonder if that means 343 might be comfortable giving us some technical basis for grav-tech in Halo sometime
Not that it really matters, of course
It's just interesting
Come to think of it, it's a lot to ask to expect game devs to look into quantum theory nonsense just to come up with some semi-grounded sci-fi gobbledygook.
That only very few people will care about
But video game sci-fi is a great vector for getting into a casual interest in real life science
I just want more Warfleet type stuff lmao
terse lava
Would be kind of interesting, though thought black holes counted as dark matter already
gilded mason
They can take more than one punch from a toddler.
remote spruce
So an Unggoy
gilded mason
Stolt would find offense to that.
fair hazel
unggoy can be very strong..
remote spruce
Anyone know how much damage a grunt melee is on Halo 5 Legendary?
autumn urchin
why arent there any hornets in reach? and no falcons outside of it? (ignoring that nightshade from hw2)
sand tiger
i think maybe the factory falcons were made at was on reach