Population of Earth - 10 billion.
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
Suck it for the cause, y'know?
Then there's Venezia
I wonder how we're gonna deal with that planet if they became a threat
humble yacht
10 billion...
D:
gilded mason
Every time we get to talking about population statistics of colonies I get more and more triggered at the insurrection.
I really wanna know more about particular planets' grievances so that we can get a better handle on why some people would rebel.
versed helm
Absolutely.
terse lava
Given time they likely would have had better populations
versed helm
At an absolutely tiny rate.
There was like one million people on Earth thousands of years ago.
It's a gradual increase.
Didn't it say that some of the Outer Colonies had unregistered births?
Yeah, but it wouldn't represent much of a population disparity.
Just an act of defiance.
Possibly a self-harming one.
terse lava
Well look at the covenant, high charity, 7 billion + , sangheilios8 billion, some colony, 3 billion.
versed helm
Population monitoring is done for a reason.
Earth's population is monitored for obvious reasons.
Same for High Charity.
They could stay static for centuries. Thousands of years.
Colonial populations would be monitored in tandem with how much that colony can support.
was the didacts body ever recovered
If a colony outgrows what it can produce and import, catastrophe will unfold.
if you don't submit to population control, you risk that.
gilded mason
was the didacts body ever recovered
It disintegrated
versed helm
risk me up baby
ah ok cheers
It was composed under very unusual circumstances.
That's the best way of putting it.
gilded mason
Yup
versed helm
Speaking of Earth's population,where did those billions of people go during the Battle of Earth?
Good question.
gilded mason
They vanished through the power of
terse lava
Vaporized
gilded mason
Neural physics
versed helm
Killed, evacuated.
Evacuations would've been happening since the Fist Strike gang got back to Earth.
When Truth got to Earth, anyone still surviving on the surface who wasn't very clever would've copped it.
I'd say that's probably the majority.
gilded mason
Though I wonder how many actually evacuated.
versed helm
Correct if i'm wrong but didn't Serin Osman say that Earth lost like what 2 or 3 billion people during the battle?
terse lava
Sounds familiar
versed helm
The question is
The hell they still doing there like a month after Halo 2
I guess just hiding
flood infected didact would gnarly af
Trying to help the UNSC any way they can
The better question would be,how did the UNSC evacuate those billions of people?
There would be no way they would enough ships for that
I would say a few hundred thousand could've been saved.
The rest died.
they didn't, it got covered up by some big corporation didn't it ?
gilded mason
The rest died.```
AgreedI would imagine those billions could've hid underground
terse lava
@Shaun Eastwood# aready shown in halo 4 via hologram
versed helm
ah i see, I need to replay that, I'm getting rusty on the lore
terse lava
@versed helmyea. When he mutates himself, the hologram of him mutates to a combat form
versed helm
Where the hell would they send those billions of evacuees before the Battle of Earth?
gilded mason
Some colonies that weren't destroyed. But that would also cause massive problems of its own
The colonies would now have to account for millions of new permanent residents.
versed helm
And those colonies might not have enough resources to support them
gilded mason
Exactly
versed helm
Because i'm imaging that at this point in the war,humanity's production capabilities are stretched way beyond their limits
sacred dew
BSG halo edition
terse lava
Wonder what those on the infinity did when earth was invaded
stoic hamlet
Probably lots of praying
The games (and books even) don’t really do the fact that it’s earth Justice.
versed helm
How much ordnance would you need to kill a Guardian?
gilded mason
Unknown at the moment
versed helm
IIRC,didn't they reveal that one of their weaknesses is a Huragok?
gilded mason
Yes. Apparently a Huragok can completely disable them.
versed helm
And how many Huragok are on board the Infinity at the moment?
gilded mason
I dunno, quite a few. Honestly, every faction should have quite a number of them at their disposal
versed helm
True,especially the SOS imho
gilded mason
Would be logical.
terse lava
Bit random, but something I just realized from Oblivion. The sangheili characters show signs of respect to each other by touching their fingers to their brow. A trait shred with forerunner warrior servants
gilded mason
Cute
terse lava
Was just re reading and actually notices that part..it does make me wonder somewhat. The librarian and her life workers chose humanity as their heirs. I wonder, if perhaps some warrior servants in the waning days of the flood war did the same with the sangheili.
versed helm
I also had a thought regarding the Planet of Blue and Red
What if the unknown bipeds that lived on that planet were wiped out by the Sangheili?
terse lava
Doubt it, as the book implies they perished long before the war
versed helm
True
I read that the Sangheili colonized dozens of planets long before their encounter and subsequent war with the San'Shyuum,here's the thing,what if they colonized worlds that were already inhabited
terse lava
Perhaps
versed helm
do you think Spartans listen to music ?
gilded mason
Yes.
versed helm
do they like jazz ? 🐝 
gilded mason
Perhaps some
sacred dew
Johnson likes flip does that count
terse lava
Sure
spiral jewel
In the epilogue for H4, where the Ur-Didact states that "the reclamation has begun and we're hopeless to stop it" I noticed that he sounded incredibly worried when he was saying that line. I'm not sure if it's foreshadowing or it's my imagination
humble yacht
Most likely that wasn’t him talking after the events of halo 4
But rather a voiceover of a speech he gave to the rest of the forerunners back before he was sealed
gilded mason
Nah, that was discredited
humble yacht
By who?
gilded mason
After some people like Haruspis said that the context would make no sense for it, Catalog made a post saying something like “huh, well, we don’t know when that speech was made. Weird!”
humble yacht
Not sure if that’s a full discredit. It sounds like maybe it was just an error but still intended to be a speech from that time period
feral perch
Grim pls tell us
gilded mason
Though MB commanded Flood ships
humble yacht
It held the line until the Halos fired
versed helm
Speaking of Offensive Bias,what became of him after he defeated MB?
gilded mason
He became a farmer.
humble yacht
I wouldn’t be surprised if he prepared himself for final dispensation
fair hazel
Did he become a... unggoy farmer? @gilded mason
gilded mason
O...Oh no. Patient Zero.
carmine sleet
Did someone say... Unggoy Farmer?
rancid delta
@versed helm his pieces were sent to the Forerunners as he had vital knowledge about the flood.
@versed helm oh oops wrong AI
@spiral jewel keep in mind that ancient humans were equal in power to Forerunners
They were a freaking tier 1 species until the freaking Forerunners had to destroy them. As in, the humans had weapons stronger than particle cannons. Just thinking about this blows my mind.
deft gust
In halo ce did we destroy the ship truth and reconciliation?
Before the ring was blown up
carmine sleet
Chief didn't but some ODSTs did to prevent it from leaving the ring with Flood on board
deft gust
Right okay. So what we know of the flood is they run about rabid like when they dont have a gravemind. Correct?
Now Keyes was basically turning into a gravemind and we are unsure if there was a 2nd one being made at this time or after.
Yet the flood had the intelligence to try and repair the pillar of autumn so they could fly away yet. They never decided to take truth and reconciliation a ship which didnt need any repairs.
carmine sleet
They tried, that's why they were creating a Proto-Gravemind on the bridge of the Truth and Reconciliation
deft gust
So a gravemind must have been made on the pillar for the flood to have the mind or intelligence to repair the ship
Unless the flood are just as intelligent without a gravemind
carmine sleet
They were likely trying to build a Proto-Gravemind if they were doing that on the Autumn
deft gust
Yh alright then that's my plot hole Idea gone lol
carmine sleet
To be fair, I don't think Bungie had thought about that when they made CE. They were more focused on giving people a fun game
carmine sleet
There was no Halo comics before CE
grim ginkgo
Ah
So bungie laid the law for the entire universe with CE?
Cause I feel that halo 2 is when we started seeing lore and story come into play.
also was I the only one who noticed that the mountain form the movie croods resembles that of the mountain in reach
humble yacht
No need to post the same thing in multiple channels, @grim ginkgo
terse lava
Now that I think on it, odd how we never see a proto gravemind on the autumn
humble yacht
Why’s that?
versed helm
Not really, the Autumn was in a remote and difficult to access location.
I'd assume the Flood only started mobilising to take it after finding the location from Keyes' memory.
carmine sleet
I'd say that's most likely
versed helm
Not to mention that fact that there were Covenant troops scouring it.
terse lava
True, come to think of it, were we ever told how t by e flood overwhelmed the truth and reconciliation?
last anchor
Probably the same way they did the Pillar of Autumn; sheer unadulterated numbers and the rat-like ability of an Infection Form to squeeze through basically any hole of any size.
versed helm
Funny thing
It's actually not entirely certain that Covenant ship from Keyes is the Truth and Reconciliation.
I know it seems really obvious but no-one calls it that.
versed helm
Oh, fair enough.
last anchor
Cause its the one that the Marines assault becuse chief made a mess
So all those Elites that you left alive sprinting through sections of the rooms and speedrunning? Yeah Silva's Marines killed em XD
last anchor
Haha. On Legendary I did, I was like "you know what, no, Im not killing all of these guys"
(Leaps in banshee at the end and flies off)
stoic hamlet
I’m sure the marines were grateful you left some for them.
versed helm
Is it true that Spartans are mercenaries in the Halo TV series?
versed helm
I think the article I got it from might just be unfamiliar with the universe.
But yeah I saw it on a news site, Comicbook I think.
gilded mason
Ah. Since Soren was augmented (with a load of defects), but had defected to a rebel group soon after.
last anchor
And then crashed into Reach's woods and lived there happily till the Covenant burned it
terse lava
Except ting a short story one of these days of covenant patrols on reach of being attacked by a monster in the woods. Horror style of course
versed helm
343 screwed up once again handing the series off to showtime who already changed the race of captain keyes. If keyes was black in the game, then I want him black in the show. I hope they change nothing else and we have the universe as it is.
coarse scarab
Yeah this new series looks like it won't be cannon
Or it will make it's own tv halo universe
obsidian thistle
Well
Note this "can" still be canon.
Atm lore works. Even if peeps dont like it.
Visuals dont. But we had that scenario a dozen times, were we will deal with it like Halo 5 Arby and Halo Legends.
coarse scarab
I'm also pretty sure that they changed some of the back stories
versed helm
They added to Miranda's backstory in a very unusual way
gilded mason
Apparently Halsey is Keyes' ex-wife now.
versed helm
And yeah TFoR is now even further trashed
obsidian thistle
Additions dont mean stuff have "changed".
versed helm
In relation to Keyes
Then what is the point of making a tv show that the fan base has been waiting on for years if you are not going to make it cannon? Why change anything???
Like if Keyes and Chief meet over the course of the show
TFoR's ogre
obsidian thistle
Again it can still be canon. 🙂
versed helm
Yeah, I mean
Anything that contradicts TFoR isn't even a retcon to me anymore
TFoR is like the Halo Universe's baby clothes
Well I hope the story is great and we forget about whatever changes they do make. 343 is all about bringing the next halo game back to its roots but at the same time is messing with the show we have all been waiting for
coarse scarab
Well idk how much 343 has to do with this
I'm guessing it's more to do with the channel it's hosted on
versed helm
I dunno
343 has seemed to be ramping it up with the lore command and control recently
And I mean, part of why the Halo TV show exists would be to draw people in to the universe
It's not hard to write a script that doesn't contradict the EU if you've got experts on-hand.
obsidian thistle
Well there is usually a lot more bts tbh
versed helm
They handed the series off to showtime and should have been clear about not changing anything. This show was made for HALO FANS and if they want to make more money by being more diverse then go mess with another franchise
coarse scarab
Well yeah but it's going to be weird when you have someone playing a character they don't even look like
obsidian thistle
Well imma show you an example of character not looking like their game versions.
versed helm
That certainly puts it in perspective.
obsidian thistle
That has like every character in Alpha-9 look different.
(Alpha-9 = Halo 3: ODST team for those not in the know)
versed helm
Would the counter-argument not be that those interviews are a comparatively insignificant source next to the high budget TV show?
Like
Bit of a different playing field
obsidian thistle
Then I'd push Halo Legends and Halo 5: Guardians Arbiter.
And character models evolving over time. And so on.
obsidian thistle
Atm I'll just requote my statement
Atm lore works. Even if peeps dont like it.
Visuals dont. But we had that scenario a dozen times, we will deal with it like Halo 5 Arby and Halo Legends.
stoic hamlet
It’s the Meridian Divide issue
obsidian thistle
*If that sticks, well we will see. But that statement holds with everything we have.
stoic hamlet
It can work, but it’s hard to say.
versed helm
Yea I am done venting and will just assume that as long as 343 has Halo that canon wont be important. But hope everything works out
obsidian thistle
343 cares for Protocol 
In a serious note in my experience. 343i actually really cares for Halo lore
stoic hamlet
They care a lot more than Bungie ever did
obsidian thistle
Oh I remember that thread.
The person took it out of context.
That said the actual reason is just more sad than "not caring".
versed helm
Even out of context, they killed off an entire spartan 2 team and off panel
obsidian thistle
With Brian Reed believing killing established characters would be very effective in showing off the Didact.
gilded mason
A very cliche trope
obsidian thistle
I wont say I am the biggest fan of that scenario. But I will say it didnt break lore, nor was it done without any care. (The care however was placed with the Didact)
versed helm
I am ok with anyone dying in the Halo Universe, as long as it makes sense. At least show us how they died and not have us go to the next page in the comic and go oh look they all died
versed helm
But how? Spartan 2s have survived the craziest situations, they adapt and overcome. If they had any hint that the didact was out of their league they would have retreated and come up with a plan.
feral perch
Spartan Team Black are the most like Spartan-IVs imo
versed helm
Spartan 2's are good, but they can be beaten.
feral perch
They weren’t the brightest
versed helm
That is
A statement which cannot be supported in a lore-based manner
Also Spartan 4s have the potential to be on-par with Spartan 2s
And Osiris clearly comes close.
feral perch
Their mannerisms were like IVs
obsidian thistle
There is this spartan 🙂 https://www.halopedia.org/Unidentified_Spartan-II
gilded mason
Thon and Reff's revenge from beyond the grave.
obsidian thistle
Dead before we even got a name for them
feral perch
Grey is leagues smarter than Black imho
versed helm
If your opinion's so humble I don't have to listen to it 😛
But I mean, I can see why you think that.
feral perch
what kind of logic is that?
versed helm
Joke logic.
Poor joke logic.
Weak banter.
But uhhh, I mean fiction is wild and stories are often inconsistent.
feral perch
sadly
versed helm
I don't see a clear lore basis for Black being somehow less competent.
And they don't need to be.
The Didact is a deadly foe.
Chief beat him the first time because a godlike intelligence burned herself out in the heart of an ancient ship of unfathomable power to save him.
And the second time he yeeted him.
Not the brightest? They were hand picked by genetics through Halsey, trained since they were little kids. Don't tell me they all just rushed a giant forerunner without assessing his capabilities
I know the Didact is deadly, just saying they were smart enough to see that
feral perch
I mean, trying to establish how powerful and deadly a character is in the same strip that you toss him out of the story is very... counterintuitive.
versed helm
Nobody's defending anything about The Next 72 Hours
That's what the arc's called innit
versed helm
Or is it 48
gilded mason
72, yeah
versed helm
Nice
The Next 72 Hours is easily the most deplorable bit of Halo fiction ever published
Or a contender for the spot
A close contender.
I can't think of anything worse right now.
You are right. I guess I just hate to see any spartan 2 go out so easy. A lot of them had very heroic deaths and fought tooth and nail before going down. I will get over it
feral perch
Eh, that one Blue Team graphic novel from Tales from Slipspace is pretty dang awful
feral perch
And a lot of uncharacteristic screaming
feral perch
I could see him behaving that way if he were transported to the Gears-verse
versed helm
That comic was an oddity though
But The Next 72 Hours
It like single-handed deflated the Reclaimer Saga.
obsidian thistle
In lighter news. xD I do have some stuff "working" bts you forerunner fans may love ;D Archives of stuff long lost but important to the lore 😄
feral perch
Noice
I’d say that the arc where Halsey is denied access to the Absolute Record is worse
At least the Didact can return as a digitized Promethean.
versed helm
My counter-argument is that the Absolute Record seems to have been set up for a continuing Spartan Ops narrative
But the Didact was gonna be the main attraction, y'know?
Either way Escalation as a whole seemingly exists to curbstomp the Reclaimer Saga.
feral perch
If only SpOps were continued as Halo 5’s campaign
feral perch
Yeah no argument there
versed helm
I see just adding a whole bunch of sandbox encounters on cool maps against varying enemies with varying tools as a great way to provide Halo content.
It was merely a little janky on the 360 and suffered as the rest of H4 did by its design decisions.
carmine sleet
I do hope Spartan Ops returns in some form in the future honestly, even if new episodes are released monthly opposed to weekly. Heck, I'd be fine with a longer wait between episodes if I'm completely honest
gilded mason
Finally found the picture I was looking for regarding the Tales from Slipspace comic
feral perch
It’s so stupid
stoic hamlet
Wow, that looks.......oof
last anchor
The art in that series of comics was pretty funky in some places.
terse lava
Wondering something, outside of fan service, had ripa 'moramee survived the shield world, would he realisticslly
have joined the banished? While he lacked any.real sangheili qualities, he appeared very loyal to the hierarchs
versed helm
I wouldn't describe what we saw as "very loyal to hierarchs".
"Loyal to Regret" is pushing it.
Like he was just doing the job he'd been given.
And you get the feeling that fundamentally he's a pretty cynical, angry individual.
stoic hamlet
I don’t think he’d have joined the Banished
gilded mason
He doesn't seem like the type of guy that would want to serve under another, if he could help it.
stoic hamlet
Aside from the fact that it didn’t exist yet
It just doesn’t seem like his typical outfit
terse lava
He seemed concerned that he be Left Behind on the great journey according to the strategy guide for the game
gilded mason
Though reading his Halopedia page, I didn't realize his appointment to Arbiter actually caused an anti-Truth faction in the Covenant to become higher profile and in need of 'extermination'
stoic hamlet
He still doesn’t seem the “pirate” type
gilded mason
That's because Atriox is a chump. 🙃
gilded mason
And in some cases, even worse.
versed helm
Not exactly.
stoic hamlet
He also isn’t very powerful
versed helm
They didn't lead through religious mass-manipulation.
stoic hamlet
He’s like, utterly irrelevant
versed helm
Uh
Okay then
I mean he obviously has a reputation
And has done a lot of heinous stuff to build what is effectively a large, professional private army.
stoic hamlet
I meant compared to Humanity at the time when both existed during the war, his faction was utterly minuscule.
terse lava
@versed helmhe replaced faith with fear and power
versed helm
I think in making those comparisons you're missing the point, Eternal.
And yeah, Ado, you're right.
terse lava
Look at how the comics show him compared to the end result
stoic hamlet
The point I’m trying to make is that Ripa doesn’t seem the type to join the underdogs.
gilded mason
The comics always felt like the writers of them and the game didn't really interact.
terse lava
@stoic hamlettrue. Other problems would be how long would ripa be an arbiter
versed helm
They're not underdogs, really.
They're just a group of people that circumvents the larger realm to take what's theirs
terse lava
At the beginning they are
versed helm
They're an underdog what? An underdog "faction"? Because that's a fairly meaningless qualifier.
They're not a state, they're effectively a huge gang. The authorities rock up - whatever authorities - and they'd scoot. They pick their battles, and they get rich from them.
It is the very fact that they're not a huge state in the same way as the Covenant or Earth that makes them a threat. You never know where they're gonna pop up or what their angle is, and they have no scruples.
You couldn't just paint their territory on a galactic map like it's some Paradox game, lmao.
And that's the way they want it.
It is entirely possible that an individual like Ripa would be attracted to the Banished to satiate their bloodlust and enrich themselves.
'Course, the story of HW2 very nearly saw that change, thus demonstrating the nature of their threat.
sonic thorn
It is 2562 in halo infinite if I’m correct. We still have 16 years until Halsey’s eulogy for B-312 in 2578. Any chance we will hear anything about Spartan B-312 in infinite maybe?
humble yacht
Probably not
main rivet
Noble's story is done.
fair hazel
we dont know WHEN the eulogy was made. we know when the scene took place, but not the eulogy necesairly
spiral jewel
Was looking to see what year the Believe ad took place, and came to the conclusion that 117 would be knocking on the door step to 100 years ago, since the Museum of Humanity stuff is in 2610, but his time in Cryo probably knocks his age at the time into at least the 80's at best.
But I also noticed that events from the Believe ad don't match up with current events. IIRC the ad was retconned to an extent.
stoic hamlet
I mean, remember Johnson was IIRC 74 when he died in H3.
Cryo can sustain you to absurd degrees depending on how long and how often you used it, so it wouldn’t surprise me if, say, John and the other II’s didn’t really age that much early War. Like, I could conceivably believe they look like they’re in their mid thirties instead of near fifties.
Most Alpha and Beta III’s probably look like late teens still, and the Gammas would be children visually by 2559.
Though with faster ships and slipspace drives its possible Cryo isn’t used as much.
versed helm
It is important to remember that UNSC troops don't typically spend years in cryo at a time.
I imagine it's mostly a few weeks downtime, a few weeks uptime.
I can't see more than like, 1/3 of the average Marine's time being spent as an popsicle
Depending on the nature of their deployments
The other possibilities when it comes to Johnson being like extremely physically capable for his age are ORION shenanigans
And 26th century medicine keeping pace with the ruins of time
The latter of which is my personal favourite cuz it's thematic
We've had loads of organ cloning and stuff
And it theoretically applies to anyone
rancid delta
@versed helm Noble Six. Dr Halsey said that only him and the Master Chief were classified as Hyper-Lethal
Yet he wasn't part of the noble team memorial
gilded mason
Also, I don't think he was well-known to the public
versed helm
I don't see why she wouldn't be commemorated if the rest of NOBLE was.
rancid delta
@versed helm it's a he
@versed helm also, yes hyper lethal doesn't officially matter, but ONI classifies both of them as hyper lethal. And that's saying something.
versed helm
Six can be a he to you
But I would prefer that Six be a she to me
I mean
The fact that you want that to be a thing is the problem
It's dumb and pointless.
I mean for one it's meaningless
What does "hyper lethal" mean? That Spartans are very killy, and nothing but killy?
If Spartans were ordered to go non-lethal
They would be more efficient at it than anyone else
A better term would be like
"Hyper-capable", maybe?
"Hyper-adaptive".
"Hyper-level asset".
But the use of hyper just sounds dumb anyway
Like I can understand lethal
It's a marketing term
Meant to connect Chief to Six
But hyper is just
Not really military terminology
Unless we're talking ballistics
I know, Donk
My point is that it's a terrible way to indicate that effectiveness
And that such indicators of that effectiveness would not be necessary
It's kinda disparaging to a lot of fan-beloved characters too
Well yeah
I mean I know what I can do about it
Call it stupid whenever it rears its malformed head
And yes
Pretend it doesn't exist
stoic hamlet
I mean, they made the term refer to Spartans as a whole to retcon the absurd idea of B-312 and John being special.
I’ll take out of place terms over absolute stupidity any day of the week.
supple salmon
I like some Spartans being better than others, if we say they are all equal its kinda boring. Imagine if every ODST was the exact same skill cap. Its subtle but its definitely there.
I don't believe every Spartan is equal, even with Mjolnir on which in the end balances them- nah.
proud quail
the problem with discussing 'best spartans' is author's bias and screentime
stoic hamlet
Certain Spartans are better at certain things than others, but to say there is a “best” overall is IMO impossible.
proud quail
specialized is one thing, ye
high gorge
hasty locust
I dont see no space elevator there
tawdry galleon
In the game I believe the Space Elevator was built on an artificial island 😄
Kizingo Boulevard
carmine sleet
I checked on google, they are
tawdry galleon
Yep. I didn't take them I've been looking online for the real places
hasty locust
It would be neat to see a modern day first world country halo-ized in a game
Cause if thats what happens to a third world country 500 some pdd years later, what happens to DC or chicago?
tawdry galleon
DC will never get futurized cause of the skyscraper law I live there. Nothing can be taller than the Washington Monument. Of course, in the future who knows what we'd change with population growth.
ONI Alpha Site Bridge
hasty locust
I think weve seen first world country’s in the comics, but in first person would be cooler
And, whoah didnt know that, thats a neat little fun fact
hasty locust
Ha
I feel like it has a similar angular design but then again i cant picture the NMPD HQ in my head perfectly
Now i want to photoshop a mini romeo and buck on the roof
tawdry galleon
Kikowani Station
Minus the flooding lol
Coastal Highway
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/3e/89/b63e89dad91a9f2905e94166d54dd304.jpg
Master Chief Crash Site 😄
hasty locust
Very cool
tawdry galleon
http://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.safaribookings.com/library/kenya/xxl/Tsavo_East_National_Park_014.jpg
Crow's Nest (the mountain)
I can't imagine Tsavo Highway without a CCS-class Battlecruiser flying overhead 😄
hasty locust
Lol, yeah
tawdry galleon
I know this is over Mt. Kilimanjaro but still - THE STORM
https://d3hne3c382ip58.cloudfront.net/resized/750x420/7-days-mount-kilimanjaro-trekking-lemosho-route-tour-2-263413_1510029029.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Voi_Center.JPG
The Storm / Floodgate
Voi minus Flood infestation
carmine sleet
Well, it's safe to say that 500 years changed allot of the area
tawdry galleon
I read on the Halo wiki that they apparently did a huge agricultural project and flooded most of the Savannah near Voi, turning it into an industrial shipping center.
So that shipping could move inland from Mombasa.
carmine sleet
Aye, which would make sense, even if it does mean they'd be disrupting the current ecosystem that's there in the Savannah
sacred dew
Question are the gutas native to reach
carmine sleet
Yes, they refer to it as an indigenous species in game
sacred dew
Cool do we know if they survived into post war
Always saw them as halo versions of ranhcors
carmine sleet
Unknown
sacred dew
Ok thank
hasty locust
I dont think ive ever seen the gúta before
carmine sleet
They only appear on the mission Nightfall in Reach
humble yacht
Tried to run too fast
sacred dew
You think the armor safety locks were what cause him to rip it
versed helm
johns an old man
carmine sleet
He's not old yet. As of Halo 5 is was in his late 40s and he's still capable of many of the feats he's performed when he was younger
carmine sleet
I don't have that power and it's irrelevant to the conversation to know why it was
gilded mason
Oh yeah, way back when, there was talk about Sangheili growing hair. Happened upon that reference in Broken Circle by chance.
Tup’Quk, a Sangheili bent with age, bristling with the odd hairs the very old sometimes sprouted from various crevices, came shuffling slowly, the ceremonial jewelry jingling from his pierced mandibles.
gilded mason
lol
feral perch
Commas are the spice of life
versed helm
I've become highly partial to semicolon usage recently.
As I realized that I've been misusing hyphens for years in their place.
gilded mason
That's a good perspective; I agree.
versed helm
And I've been trying to find ways to structure my sentences in natural ways that avoid comma usage.
Because that makes commas more satisfying when they can be used.
vague scroll
use semicolons to balance two short sentences/fragments/two separate ideas in the same sentence. Use hyphen to extend your sentences, typically as a replacement for "ands" and commas.
vague scroll
heh, you know it
versed helm
Have you no soul bot
grizzled ocean
I’d like to remind everyone Maranda Keys is the only human to duel wielding a shotgun with any weapon and therefore could be assumed more dangerous then a SPARTAN (in that small amount of time)
vague scroll
*Miranda Keyes
versed helm
I am a bit of a Miranda fanboy
vague scroll
also, she didn't actually shoot it
versed helm
Miranda's got fighting spirit
vague scroll
she only shot it when two handed
versed helm
Well she had fighting spirit anyway
vague scroll
she's also a doctor in covenant culture
versed helm
Nice
Man I was almost gonna say
If Truth wasn't obviously speaking English
Maybe that's how she was able to speak with him briefly despite not wearing any kind of obvious translation-capable gear
But nah
He was speaking English
vague scroll
I prefer the idea he was speaking English to let her know she and Johnson were in over their heads
because they were
versed helm
I mean for my theory to be true
Johnson would also have to know the Covenant language
Which I somehow doubt
vague scroll
who attacks a fortified position with only a damaged pelican, a shotgun, and a magnum?
Miranda Keyes apparently
feral perch
she accomplished nothing
versed helm
That's not what it's about
feral perch
It would've been way more effective to just fire rockets and chainguns at Johnson, Truth, and his Brute bodyguards.
feral perch
not confirmed
versed helm
No duh
gilded mason
Or have a phantom go do it
feral perch
Presumably there would be some spare pilots who could've gone in instead of Miranda
versed helm
And the fact that Miranda did it herself is why I think she's a legend
feral perch
I've always found the final battle against the Covenant to be very underwhelming.
versed helm
Also I don't think it was fully established that Pelicans were actually armed to the teeth at that point
Oh wait
In the first level
Nevermind
And Halo 2
feral perch
Two Scarabs and a relatively small contingent of Brutes, Jackals and Grunts? No Hunters? No Keyship, no huge air battle?
versed helm
DARN IT BUNGO
feral perch
What happened to the Anodyne Spirit?
versed helm
Good question
gilded mason
There was a ship battle, we just never got to see it. 😥
versed helm
It really just does disappear from the face of the galaxy
And I think we can assume it was not part of the ship battle
Otherwise uh
gilded mason
Yeah, a bit odd
versed helm
Rip R'tas
gilded mason
He would’ve found a way. Totally. Uh-huh.
feral perch
Halo 3 is full of stupidity
versed helm
Honestly a game playing as R'tas would be good.
I would enjoy that.
And I think it'd probably land well with the entire community too.
I'm pretty sure the lore YouTubers have made very sure everyone knows who he is
carmine sleet
He'd likely have a new VA if he does return
versed helm
Also I'm adding an unneeded apostrophe there aren't I
It's just Rtas
Or is it
Yes
Yes I was
Where was Distant that time
Where you that time Mr Ostral McRtasFanboy
gilded mason
I thought about it. 😋
feral perch
aren't I is grammatically incorrect. It's "Am I not?"
If you happen to be multiple organisms with a collective consciousness, then it would be "Aren't we?"
Also, if R'tas returns, they better get Robert Davi back to voice him
gilded mason
Though I'd be fine if R'ta'''s'' had to get a different voice actor for one reason or another. As long as the voice was still suave, at least.
feral perch
Would you settle for anyone other than Keith David voicing Arbiter?
gilded mason
To be honest, yeah.
feral perch
I wouldn't
warm wigeon
nether would i
versed helm
The only way you could improve the Arbiter's VO
Is to electronically synthesize the way an Elite would actually sound speaking English.
Phyllisssssss intensifies
But of course you nerds would all hate that
Because aliens need to sound sexy to be iconic or some nonsense
Frankly if I were the Arbiter I'd feel oppressed by society's unfair alien VO norms
feral perch
if you were the Arbiter, you wouldn't feel oppressed by anyone else's opinion
You might, however, get tired of having your skin swapped
rancid delta
The dreadnought is probably inactive at the portal at Voi
gilded mason
It flew into the portal.
rancid delta
Oh it did?
gilded mason
Ye
last anchor
You see it do so at the end of the Storm. It goes in, the fleet follows it, then a moment later the Flood ship comes in and crashes.
Considering how long it took to get ships through the portal and the time taken to travel (slipspace of course not being instant) it was already docked with the Ark when the UNSC and Sangheili forces arrived for Operation Far Hope.
A hologram even mentions it being docked there.
feral perch
Why has no other faction tried to get their hands on it?
feral perch
very wishy-washy
Sometimes aliens can use it, sometimes they can't.
Sometimes humans are Reclaimers, sometimes they ain't.
terse lava
@feral perchbanishesd did try, the lekgolo colony...Colony had been exploringnthr keyships on the ark
meager delta
I'm bored rn should I play Minecraft or Halo
carmine sleet
I don't see how that factors into Halo lore, King
versed helm
Hey y'all
What was the problem with the M820 Scorpion again?
Cuz it looks like x20 cooler than M808-pattern Scorps
And actually has some cool sci-fi stuff going on instead of just being a kinda mediocre tank that I have to drive myself up the wall pretending is realistically capable
gilded mason
A silly thing, but it doesn't feel 'blocky' enough for me
gilded mason
😏
carmine sleet
I never had a problem with it. It was logical that the UNSC would manufacture a new model sooner or later. Basically the same reason I don't hate any of the H5 Covie vehicle designs. Heck, I am a big fan of the Banshee design
versed helm
Well
If they're going back to M808s in Infinite
They'd better darn-well give us some more solid lore
I'm talkin', specify that this is like an automated combat system that uses operator oversight to make tactical decisions
And fluff up the gun a bit so people stop laughing at the fact that it's 90mm
gilded mason
Also, man, they made solitary emojis way too big in that recent update. Feels overbearing using one.
versed helm
Oh yeah
And have the secondary machine gun be like a part of a co-operator's compartment
Rather than just a random, exposed MG nest
And I did get a jumpscare the first time I sent a lone emoji and it was unexpectedly large
But it is nice for more detailed emojis
What I mean by the way is that the secondary MG gunner spends most of their time lowered down in the hull
carmine sleet
So long as Hannibal vehicles return in some form, I'll be happy
versed helm
And climbs up the use the MG when necessary
gilded mason
Anyway, regarding Covie designs. Most of the new stuff looks way too...tumorous.
A few neat ship designs, though
carmine sleet
Aye, some of those ships have pretty solid designs, especially the blockade runner
gilded mason
But the Brigantine's design feels kinda boring. Like a thick and blocky thing.
carmine sleet
Aye, not much on it to make it interesting
gilded mason
Blockade Runner's really nice, though. Wouldn't look outta place with previous ships.
carmine sleet
Indeed. Hopefully it returns in the future
wary hazel
Can I ask what exactly is the role of the kraken, is it mainly a troop transport or is it like the scarab?
sacred dew
It's a tier 10 excavation vehicle like the scarab
wary hazel
Ah is see
But how different is it to the scarab? Like does it have disadvantages of advantages over the scarab?
sacred dew
It a bigger target and really slower but it has more firepower and more durable than the scarab
It also carries banshees
wary hazel
Cool I guess a shame it had the same problem in game like Halo 2's scarab
sacred dew
Hey now throwing Spartans at the problem usually solves it
wary hazel
Lol
terse lava
Tell that to harvest
carmine sleet
The Kraken serves more of a forward operating base role opposed to the Scarabs
sacred dew
I still can't believe gek won the harvester from an auction
carmine sleet
I can. It would make logical sense for underground auctions to have that sort of contriband
sacred dew
An underground auction having a planet killing weapon and selling it for a million credits
Seems legit
carmine sleet
Also remember that Halo is in space as well so stuff like that is more believable in that world than it is in ours
sacred dew
I just think it would have been cooler if he got it from raiding a stronghold or something
carmine sleet
I prefer the auction method. It shows that he was willing to obtain stuff through other methods than just killing
umbral junco
Isn't the Harvester built into the corpse of what was a living creature?
carmine sleet
No. It's made out of similar materials as other Covenant vehicles
gilded mason
obsidian thistle
Cant wait to push version 3.43 of that.
Where we add a lot more context to that stuff.
rancid delta
The Kraken also holds a Forerunner Gravitational Core, meaning it can suspend in mid-air
spice hearth
I miss the scarabs
narrow dawn
All i said is that I found out the magnum was chambered in 12.7MM
carmine sleet
Could've had a word that was filtered because of a certain film that comes out next month and they don't want spoilers being put here
versed helm
What film
carmine sleet
The biggest one that comes out next month
narrow dawn
But seriously how does the recoil not launch the thing out of a Marines hands?
terse lava
500 years of advancement in recoil?
narrow dawn
Good point
But they would have to have REAALY good stuff because if I remember correctly 12.7 is used for anti material rifles
carmine sleet
If I recall, allot of the weapons fire rounds that don't quite make sense for them to fire for one reason or another
clever fable
Needler 👀
empty escarp
Sup bois
versed helm
Most of the ammunition makes sense.
They just use generally larger calibre weapons than we do in the modern era, typically, which makes sense on account of presumably better body armour.
The BR's 9.5 ammo is a bit of an oddity because it's a stubby round
Both in terms of the actual bullet and the cartridge
Um, why are Storm Grunts in FoR?
Yet it's got seemingly excellent ballistics
And is the TV show retcon'g character races?
gilded mason
Nah. Their appearance in the show isn't considered canon. Like Legends visuals.
versed helm
First because that style of armour isn't exclusive to the postwar period and visual canon is kinda meaningless in Halo
And the second
Because visual canon is kinda meaningless in Halo
Excepting "iconic" stuff of course
If skin colour is iconic to you you're a bad person, is the chokehold.
Put the concern into a winnable battle.
Well I'm black, so that argument you're probably trying to make doesn't fly
🤷🏿♂️
Nah
It flies.
Spend your energy caring about something less edgy.
F*ck you
Life is so short
Thanks @gilded mason
He's incorrect, btw.
gilded mason
Hm?
versed helm
We don't yet understand the canonicity of the show.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Well when you collect art of certain characters, the changes butchers such
Such as dioramas and displays
Especially if trying to stick to canon
As I said, visual canon is meaningless in Halo.
The appearance of people, equipment, things, all that they've ever cared about is trying to make it look cool.
But I guess you probably love the new Ariel movie and other woke changes 🤷🏿♂️
I despise children's shows and don't respect adults who care about them.
Except for Fantastic Mister Fox
That one was brilliant
Ah
Talking about edgy
🤦🏿♂️
Touche.
@gilded mason stated in the wikis, anything from the original canon that is conflicting with original canon is not canon
Is that stated?
So the changes shouldn't be canon, especially with it being an "adaptation"
Yes
Funny, I've done an awful lot of Halopedia editing.
I could link
Go for it.
Of course, wikis are fan sites, as you know.
"While most of such conflicts are settled on a case-by-case basis, Halopedia additionally employs several unofficial policies of its own to help solve canonical conflicts. For example, adaptations are generally considered secondary to the original work. An example of this are the comic and animated adaptations of Halo: The Fall of Reach, in particular the animated series, which diverges from the source material quite drastically in several instances. Nonetheless, these adaptations are considered canonical where they do not conflict with the original work, but the version of the events, characters, etc. shown in the novel is considered "definitive". The same policy can, in a general sense, be extended to most conflicts between written and visual material."
That kinda proves my point.
Most conflicts are settled on a case-by-case basis.
They use precedent to establish a general ruleset when no information is forthcoming
But for instance, when it comes to TFoR specifically, I know for a fact that 343's internal canon sits between the book, the comic, and the animation.
It's just about displaying information in a sensible way.
Actual canon is kinda unknowable.
Was question of majority believe in Canon continuity and which to take as face value for referencing and visual display of events within the universe. When ask of the race, and appearance of a Storm Grunt without it's gas mask. When depicting, which should I take in consideration, which is why I questioned such.
Look, I just wanna come clean with you. Everything I say about the show is motivated by the fact that I don't appreciate people turning a property that I've loved for my entire life into a battleground about racial issues. It doesn't matter who's the instigator, both sides are as bad as each other.
On the face of it, black Keyes is a bit silly, but it's petty.
Understandable. But you assumed I commented to complain
I suppose I did.
Which why I said I was black
I commented on it for referencing, not to make it a racial issue
Or else I would of never mentioned the grunt
Getting down to the nitty-gritty, when dealing specifically with visual canon (canon of the superficial, canon that you couldn't write down without resorting to visual depictions), Halo has always played fast-and-loose.
What Halopedia normally does in instances of visual canon contradicting other sources is just include images from all of them and label them as a certain source's depiction.
In my experience, there is no such thing as a rock-solid Halo visual canon. It's down to the whims of the creators and the interpretations of the fanbase.
I try to stick as close to the agreed canon source material. Exp: The agreed height of Master Chief 7'2 right?
Vs his varying height within cutscenes
Yeah, I think so.
Mhm.
So if I'm documenting extra details about characters, or displaying historical events in the Halo lore, a racial retcon can conflict with that
Exp: Storm Grunt appearing, or canonically replacing Grunt Minors from back then
Strictly speaking, from what I understand, a Grunt could pop up wearing "Storm" equipment early on in the HCW.
It's just equipment.
It's not necessarily a canonical issue, except for the fact that it contradicts other depictions of that same Grunt.
Actually, I think in other depictions it's not even a Grunt
And this is a case where the policy you linked of the original source is relevant.
What sources say it is an older armor, all sources I seen say it is an upgrade for Covenant Remnants are Halo 3
after*
Generally, 343's Covenant gear aren't meant to be new stuff but older stuff being fished back up by Jul's Covenant.
I assumed that goes for the Grunt's gear.
That is, if you wanted TFoR-A's visuals to be canon.
Whenever 343 answers a lore question, they always seem to emphasize the possibility of everyone's favourite outlooks being canon.
Haha, like Dragon Ball
gilded mason
Based out of the Sanghelios continent of Kaepra, Lodam Armory spent centuries developing components for Covenant combat harnesses. Eventually, Lodam Armory would combine their engineering efforts by creating their first fully in-house armor system, the Storm harness, which – along with a Ranger variant based on the same platform – would be employed by Covenant shock troopers carrying out far-flung missions on frontier worlds, and later produced in even higher supply to be exploited by multiple sides of the Sangheili civil war.
gilded mason
👍
versed helm
so it was a niche armor for expeditions?
Expeditions of the unknown
Another example is the huge visual difference between Chief's Mark V, and that worn by NOBLE team and other "Cat-2" SIIIs.
Like, there's two outlooks.
There's a contrived explanation that keeps Chief's CEA Mark V canon by emphasizing that it's the special-sauce AI-compatible variant (which somehow necessitates an overhaul in plating configuration)
And there's the Loot Crate art that shows Chief on 04 with armour that looks like NOBLE's Mark V.
Why would that art exist if not to make a point about something? Especially considering how faithful Loot Crate art usually is to the universe?
remote spruce
Issac be like "nah i got this"
versed helm
I mean, weren't they Spartan-2s, Jorge and Jun armor look pretty similar to Chief
Unless I'm misunderstanding
(Jorge was Spartan 2
It all relates to the concept of Mark V (B).
I meant they were threes
Ah
Depending on how you look at it, Mark V (B) is either a hugely different platform to standard Mark V
remote spruce
it should be
versed helm
Or it's just a variant that cannot contain smart AI, and is characterized by a unique helmet as its base model.
It looks pretty similar
Brb, gf messaging me
Thanks for letting us know.
Okay, back
@remote spruce Tell me this isn't totally sick tho
Like c'mon
Tell me that doesn't just make more sense
Oooh, I see
But wasn't his armor tailored for him?
remote spruce
as in replacing the look of old Mark V? agree
i like what they did to the Fall of Reach comic for Spartan armor
versed helm
Ye
remote spruce
reach helmets with regular Mark V (and no absurd shoulder pads)
versed helm
Wait, I'm confused
Master Chief had Mark V Halo 1-3 right, which Mark did Noble Team have?
I swore all the Spartan programs had different marks
Chief wore Mark V in CE, and Mark VI in 2 and 3.
Noble wore something called Mark V (B)
Which is like an early version of Mark V
Seemingly one adapted from a line of Mark IV, looking at the Battle Born covers.
remote spruce
yikes?
versed helm
It had shields, but couldn't play host to an AI.
Chief's Mark V, as we know, could.
So being that he was of the Spartan-2s, he should of had the earlier armor?
Mark V (B)
Mark V (B) was field-tested by Spartan III teams for an unknown amount of time
Before full Mark V was issued to Spartan IIs
There is a notion that Spartan IIs had also been using Mark V (B) in some capacity since 2551
A year before they were supposed to get it, during the Fall of Reach.
I disagree with that notion.
gilded mason
Yeah
versed helm
But that's what Halopedia runs with.
stoic hamlet
I don’t think it’s that absurd
There’s nothing in TFoR to indicate the Energy Shielded Mark V was new when John first tested it, just that it was new to him.
(And if there was something that said it was new, they could easily retcon it to say John had heard of prototypes but had never believed they would see widespread use, or something)
Communications during the war sucked, and getting shipments out to frontline units would be hard if not really impossible tbh.
So him not getting it while another group of II’s did isn’t implausible.
versed helm
Actually
I mean, I was gonna contradict you
But then I realized that you qualified new to him
And truth be told, that's fine. Like logically, I suppose it checks out.
But on a subjective basis it still sucks hard in my eyes and undermines a piece of Halo lore that had no reason not to be timeless, even as the rest of TFoR crumbled around it.
stoic hamlet
I can see that, but to give a real life example of how stuff might not get sent out or otherwise take forever to be issued, when I was a Cadet way back when, during my first year, I didn’t receive my dress uniform uniform until the end of January. I was sized and the order put in in early September.
If QM takes that long on Earth in the mid 2000’s to deliver a standard dress uniform I can’t imagine how long it would take to deliver an absurdly expensive suit of armour made in limited numbers in the far future where most transit takes weeks and they’re in the middle of a war for survival..
versed helm
Bit of a difference between a cadet in the 21st century on Earth getting a parade uniform and the rollout of a bleeding-edge suit of battle armour to the scalpel of humanity's military might in the 26th.
And I'm pretty sure the book mentions that the other Spartan IIs recalled for RED FLAG were also outfitted with new Mark V.
stoic hamlet
Yes, it did say that.
but
IIRC it also says John hasn’t seen some of them in years.
Actually I’mma go check right now
Yep. Chapter 26, pg 240 in the original print
obsidian thistle
Oh the dates are something I was careful about @versed helm regarding Mark V (B)
Even had to consult the Encyclopedia for once
Which is canon if nothing contradicts
stoic hamlet
Now that I’m here at that page, a latter scene has John notice the tenseness of the ODST’s on Guard before he tests MJOLNIR. I’ve always assumed it was purely for the test, but with the timeline updated as it is, could they also have been expecting Covenant attack?
versed helm
It's certainly possible.
remote spruce
those poor dudes probably didn't make it off planet
gilded mason
I think you might be saying a bad word, or maybe saying a word in the newest movie involving lazer swords?
polar elm
Can I message a mod and figure out what's wrong?
gilded mason
Hm. Feel free to send me a message and I'll take a quick look-see.
polar elm
I've been reading through First Strike and it's truly better than I had remembered it, but I had missed the time travel anomaly in my previous read. I've tried formulating three hypotheses to fit the canon. I personally agree with the second one with the note. I'd like to know what you guys think.
- The time date is completely erroneous and the events are set sometime after September 22. This would be inconsistent with the initial events at ONI CASTLE base as it would imply that Red Team were holding off a massive Covenant armada for a period of more than 2 weeks.
- They have traveled to the past. This is rather inconsistent as it implies that Operation : FIRST STRIKE takes place before the Battle of Installation 04. This appears paradoxical since Cortana discovered the grouping at Unyielding Hierophant to be after September 22. It also implies that, for a period of time, there were two Master Chiefs in-universe. This, however, is consistent with the events at ONI CASTLE base. [note]
- There is an unexplained phenomena which causes the date time to move backward but at the same time keeps the observers moving forward in the same space time continuum.
Note - The assumption that the rendezvous at Unyielding Hierophant was after September 22 may be wrong as it is implied by Dr Halsey that John was already moving back in the space time continuum to be able to reach the Forerunner Crystal. This would mean that they arrived in the past and Cortana's subsequent intercept of Covenant comms was correctly set in the past. This would lead to the formation of a stable time loop. Note that only John, Johnson, Polaski, Linda and Locklear have time traveled so as long as they do not influence their future self in any way, the time loop would remain stable.
fair hazel
Ah, you figured it out.
polar elm
Good ol' @gilded mason helped out
gilded mason
👋
polar elm
It was annoying to say the least.
gilded mason
Yeah, if you didn't know what to look for, it'd be basically impossible
fair hazel
im able to check
gilded mason
Well, for myself, I don't remember enough about First Strike to offer an opinion. 😋
sacred dew
So did the crystal have a mind of its own or something since it manipulated events so it could be found
polar elm
Unclear. The whole Forerunner installation under ONI CASTLE Base appeared to "wake up" in response to Fred's blood.
spiral jewel
I know that they didn't appear in game due to obvious reasons, but did the POA have BR55's, MA37's and the M392 alongside the MA5B, M6 series , SPNKR and the SRS99-AM during the events of CE/CEA?
versed helm
Not sure about the BR or Reach weapon variants, but the Autumn did have Falcons on board, if we go by Fireteam Raven.
spiral jewel
I'm sure an soft retcon could make it happen if that is the case
obsidian thistle
Well the PoA musta had "some" Reach stuff. I mean it has the Reach AR. If the Reach Cutscene with Keyes in it is any indication.
hasty locust
A ship of the autumn’s size it is not far fetched at all to say somewhere on board was the reach weapons, vehicles etc
stoic hamlet
I definitely had BR55’s and MA5C’s.
We just never saw them
Same as how the MA5 was used in Halo 2, it didn’t disappear from the universes
sacred dew
Didn't it also have Cyclopes
tired river
I mean it definitely did have some reach stuff
We saw falcons in fireteam raven
They also had halo 3 and halo 2 era ODSTs. It’s entirely possible they had battle rifles and other things in the inventory we just didn’t see it
polar elm
There's some inconsistency with Dr. Halsey's statement in FoR saying that in the previous decade, there were 3 KIA and 1 injured. As I'm going through the intro of Ghosts of Onyx, it's clear that Kurt-051 is KIA (if not, no spoilers please) in 2531. This puts the number of Spartans at 31. Now factoring in Halsey's statement of 3 KIA and 1 injured in the previous decade and 3 off system, that puts our total at 24. John counts 24 Spartans in the briefing room excluding himself. There's two ways to resolve this. Either John is erroneous (there should be 23 in the briefing room) or Halsey is. Which one is more appropriate? I seem to prefer retconning Halsey's statement into saying the last two decades instead. While it's not completely accurate, it can be handwaved as close enough as the time difference is merely a year.
Also, Fall of Reach establishes 33 Spartan-IIs surviving augmentation but Halopedia lists way more than that, around 45. What gives?
humble yacht
New Spartans have been added to the fiction over the years
polar elm
So which part is getting retconned?
carmine sleet
Does that 45 include the ones that washed out but were later augmented and then became active Spartans?
obsidian thistle
The TFoR/FS statement was Halsey lying to her Spartans. Just note that
That and she may not know the status of every Spartan. Especially if ONI got their hands on em.
terse lava
If nizat and co return to the setting, what part do you think they would play
gilded mason
Hm...I've no clue. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
polar elm
Does this imply that not all Spartans got Mark V?
Also what about the successfully augmented numbers?
stoic hamlet
No spoilers but yes, not all Spartans got access to Mark V
terse lava
Btw, wasnt there some old lore which stated their armor was equal to that of a major?
versed helm
What old lore
Prelates basically became a thing in their modern form in Shadow of Intent
And haven't got much of a mention since
fair hazel
they were mentioned in halo 2 map gemini
obsidian thistle
Well the Halo 2 Map Pack Manual
Big difference. ;)
But its still for that map
vapid matrix
what halo books do guys recommend for halo lore
gilded mason
For lore? That'd be all of them.
vapid matrix
to be more specific story
gilded mason
Broken Circle, Shadow of Intent, Last Light, Silent Storm, and Oblivion are my currently most enjoyed ones right now.
vapid matrix
ok
feral perch
Halo: The Fall of Reach is the most important for understanding the Spartan-IIs
versed helm
We need to stop recommending TFoR
It will confuse people
@vapid matrix Contact Harvest is by the far the best introduction to the Halo Extended Universe - it gives much needed context for the Human-Covenant War, it has recognizable characters, it has good action, and provides insight from virtually every perspective relevant to modern lore (UNSC, Covenant, AI).
Silent Storm is an amazing narrative that tells you basically everything you need to know about Spartan IIs without subjective to you the many ways The Fall of Reach has been subverted (and continues to be subverted) by newer sources.
stoic hamlet
Why would we stop recommending TFoR?
It’s the foundation of the universe
Arguably the book to read
Yes, it has some outdated/now incorrect lore, but as long as people know that going in, it’s still an exceptional read.
It features the Keyes Loop, which obviously slots it into the top three of best novels. 😆
After Ghosts and Contact Harvest, Of course
(Which also have incorrect lore)
terse lava
Unlike broken circle, which has no such flaws😋
gilded mason
😉
fair hazel
I dont not recommend the fall of reach
stoic hamlet
happy ‘leet noises
gilded mason
There is nothing more precious.
terse lava
Joyous wortimg intensifies
vapid matrix
Ok
terse lava
A pity they never explain what became of the main cast
gilded mason
Maybe someday
terse lava
Maybe, only hint we apparently have was that vil's name became the "ee" suffix
feral perch
Looters I might have to go to war against your war on TFoR
versed helm
The Fall of Reach
Is the Halo universe's training wheels.
it helped guide and shape the universe into what it is.
But the universe has now outgrown it.
When a newbie to the universe reads TFoR they are subjected to a myriad of issues which they are probably not prepared to handle.
It could result in them seeing the Halo universe as inconsistent and lazy, or forming crazy misconceptions which could derail good lore appreciation.
stoic hamlet
You could say the same about First Strike
versed helm
I do say the same about First Strike.
stoic hamlet
Or Contact Harvest or Ghosts of Onyx to some regard
versed helm
Contact Harvest has like a singular inconsistency.
stoic hamlet
But it has inconsistencies.
If you can get past that you can get past TFoR’s.
versed helm
TFoR is becoming an inconsistency at this point
It's impossible to enjoy reading it these days because
You have to consume mountains of junk lore
And accept contrivance after contrivance to make sense of it
There should be an annotated edition for new readers
"Oh hey, ignore what Nylund was obviously trying to tell you here. He/his buddies (none of the ones at Sigma Octanus) actually already had Mark V. This bit where the energy shields are new to him is to be ignored. It's just a field test for Cortana integration."
"Oh guess what, while this is all happening, the other side of Reach is burning. And these highly valuable special operations personnel and Naval officers don't know about this because of reasons."
"This bit where Chief beats up these ODSTs may not be consistent with Hunt The Truth or any other time in the universe it's described"
terse lava
Looter has a point here, though would blame bungie for that rather then the e e book
versed helm
"The Spartans didn't actually all have identical Mark IV armour, they had variants."
terse lava
Think the point has been made looter
versed helm
I mean Contact Harvest's like
It lowballs the number of developed colony worlds
And at one point memes out with "Epsilon Eridanus"
Its issues aren't like, shadows of random complication that hang over vast portions of the novel and contradict the clear intent.
terse lava
Truw
stoic hamlet
Except it isn’t hard to fix all those issues on a revised edition.
And I mean a truly revised edition.
It would be incredibly easy
Absurdly so even
You wouldn’t even need to change much if anything
Literally maybe one or two dates and add a bit about how by Sigma Octanus Spartans has customized their armour.
(Which I still don’t like, but we all know that by now)
An then obviously change the bit about John and co never encountering Elites before
versed helm
I would like that.
But I think there's limits to how much it can actually be re-written
Otherwise it kinda ceases to be Eric Nylund's work, y'know?
I think it might be legally complex
Whereas the fixes that have been made so far can be looked at as oversights
Oh, another thing.
In light of the new TV show
Odds are
Keyes is gonna have met Chief again prior to RED FLAG
That doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on the TV show btw
Chief doesn't recognize Johnson either
stoic hamlet
I’d say it reflects poorly on the TV show IMO
versed helm
And Johnson is now revealed to be one of Chief's oldest friends, a masterful move by Denning
stoic hamlet
Personally I would have preferred another ORION in Johnson’s role in Silent Storm, but it was a cool move.
versed helm
I mean
stoic hamlet
Byrne, perhaps
versed helm
They namecheck it
Oh I getcha
Uh, deal with it. It was still more than we could've asked for.
stoic hamlet
Oh I know
I just would have preferred another ORION.
But I still loved Johnson in it.
versed helm
In effect, Mythos was kinda supposed to serve as your re-write, I think.
stoic hamlet
Ehhh, I suppose.
But at that point they may as well just say TFoR isn’t to be used anymore. But they can’t.
I mean that as the community would freak the heck out.
versed helm
Well that's where I come in
😎
Join the forces of reason
Spread the good word
inb4 Mythos is meant to serve as an intentionally skeletal bible for all the lore released up to its emergence
Because Halo Infinite, as a spiritual reboot, and the lore that follows is probably gonna only adhere to it and not all the individual sources
I mean you can kinda already see it happening
Battle Born and the Master Chief Story stuff
Both take some pretty hefty, very sensible strides with the lore
remote spruce
if that happens can we see like half of the story bible pls
stoic hamlet
but I don’t wanna lose my lore D:
versed helm
The hope is that newer, better lore takes its place
I mean it would be
If I'm on the right track
remote spruce
AKA what Bungie probably said when making Reach
versed helm
I mean Reach would be better lore
If it had the dank space battle
TFoR's version of the Fall of Reach is kinda simplistic
sacred dew
So we can get a new red flag
versed helm
The game turns it into a real sprawling struggle. It just kinda lacks some needed information.
And it also a big Boom
It just fizzles out
versed helm
TFoR just has so many contradictions