And ground all his bones back down and added normal bone again
#lore-and-universe
sinful quartz
proud quail
i mean
if they can do it once
why not do it again
although it really does sound weird
sinful quartz
Well it should have killed him the first time.
versed helm
I think we can assume the nervous system stuff is probably still in there
versed helm
Uh I guess they like got rid of the bone stuff
sinful quartz
So why did Randall get the special treatment.
feral perch
Maria-062?
sinful quartz
Ye
feral perch
She is weird
versed helm
At some point Maria's gotta get back to kicking butt
feral perch
ONI let her leave? like wat
versed helm
The case of affairs as-is cannot stand
proud quail
to be honest
versed helm
Though they did keep her to test out MJOLNIR on
proud quail
what is ONI going to tell you
sinful quartz
Nah. Maria retired from active front line duty.
But served to help test MJolnir armor
versed helm
Like Randall wanted to just get outta dodge
humble yacht
Randall got special treatment because he kept giving ONI a hard time when they tried to bring him back
proud quail
"you signed our contract, you can't leave"?
versed helm
But Maria's still UNSC-aligned
humble yacht
So they offered a deal
proud quail
or better yet
"you want to leave, so we'll attempt to kill you, in which you will escape us because of the training we gave you"
sinful quartz
Like when ONI tried to steal a Spartan 1's daughter, and he killed everyone who tried to?
proud quail
and that one just sounds like a cliche
proud quail
may as well let spartans leave when they want to leave
sinful quartz
Imagine a Spartan 1.1 who became a spartan 4
feral perch
More like, "The UNSC needs you on the front lines to fight this alien menace"
sinful quartz
Spartan 5.1?
proud quail
yeah but SIIs weren't created for the alien menace aylmao
or asked for their opinion
versed helm
Ay I mean whichever way you spin it
carmine sleet
If a Spartan 1.1 ended up in the S-IV program, they'd likely just be classed as a S-IV, not S-5.1
proud quail
yeah i fixed it
versed helm
SIIs were like a bunch of kids sacrificed to save kids
feral perch
"transhuman"
sinful quartz
Its why ONI is so desperate to keep their nature a secret.
feral perch
what do you mean by that exactly?
versed helm
If the Outer Colonies got their way I just cannot see things going well for humanity.
sinful quartz
Spartans are augmented beyond human norms.
And have their minds augmented due to all the improved nerves and brain enhancements.
feral perch
they're advanced humans
sinful quartz
They trans-cended normal human limits.
gilded mason
a transhuman is a being that resembles a human in most respects but who has powers and abilities beyond those of standard humans.
sinful quartz
its a sci-fi term.
versed helm
By definition in fact
feral perch
Oh, transcended. I thought it was trans-ition
proud quail
what
sinful quartz
Space marines are posthuman.
humble yacht
More like posthumous
proud quail
oof
versed helm
gottem
gilded mason
eyy
sinful quartz
Posthuman is when a human is no longer of the same species and incapable of interbreeding, as well as having a mind that no longer thinks like a human.
feral perch
Posthuman. Wasn't that applied to Prophet and the soldiers in the Nanosuits?
sinful quartz
Posthuman is a nice way to put "No longer a human"
sinful quartz
What a wasted potential for a franchise
feral perch
I liked Crysis 3
sinful quartz
Oh the games were good
feral perch
It had a tear-jerker of an ending
sinful quartz
But the Expanded Universe material for Crysis was a profound failure
proud quail
the games were fine, the franchise was just
feral perch
Oh?
proud quail
💤
feral perch
what was the EU for Crysis?
sinful quartz
Think of how Fall of Reach set up the halo EU
proud quail
there were two books and a comic book
sinful quartz
How it was -more- than the game, and set up this huge universe we wanted more of
proud quail
they killed off a main character in the comic
proud quail
and the other two books were hilariously forgettable because it's just prophet going through stages of bureaucracy and insanity
sinful quartz
They didnt add much, weren't really listened to by the game writers, and didnt expand meaningfully upon the universe
versed helm
"We can be Halo too!"
sinful quartz
A good way to test how good a game novel is.
proud quail
that's literally what it was, looters
sinful quartz
"Does the book feel like the game was inspired by it instead"
proud quail
crytek was trying VERY hard to see if they can make a halo franchise out of crysis
sinful quartz
Fall of Reach was so good, you couldnt be blamed for thinking they made CE based upon it
feral perch
Aye
sinful quartz
Because it wasnt just dedicated to setting up CE
proud quail
but that flopped very quickly and the franchise is pretty much ended despite a little cliffhanger for a side plot
sinful quartz
It was setting up a UNIVERSE
feral perch
Crysis is like a marriage between CoD and Halo, with very light RPG elements
sinful quartz
A setting with interconnected components, characters, and stories inside of it
Which future games and novels could connect to
versed helm
You can't really manufacture that
sinful quartz
Whereas the Crysis novels were made just so they could go "we have a novel"
sinful quartz
Thats the big differnece in my opinion.
Crytech wanted a franchise, but just did it wrong.
proud quail
the plot went from generic special forces man on an island with spooky aliens to a soul searching journey on what makes a man a man
oh
wait
hm
sinful quartz
It was also made by a nihilist
A writer known for making stories that come down to\
proud quail
maybe not too different beats
sinful quartz
""Why being a human sucks and we should abandond our humanity to become machines"
feral perch
It's got the feel of CoD unhindered by a linear gameplay style, and Halo's sci-fi feel, in a very different way
sinful quartz
That is as muhc a mortal sin as
"Why humans are da cool, and aliens da stupidest"
versed helm
Naww man
sinful quartz
Good future mil sci-fi is in the middle
versed helm
That's my favourite kind of story
gilded mason
Which kind?
versed helm
"Aliens be dumb, humans have big guns"
gilded mason
looters no
versed helm
I'm doin it
gilded mason
nooo
versed helm
I'm going full Heinlein up in this biarch
sinful quartz
halo isnt the second one, but its "A story about humans."
gilded mason
Looters, I thought you were better than that. 😥
sinful quartz
Human marines, human navy, and human supersoldiers.
It is Humanity Hell Yeah, but not intentionally
Its just that way because its a well written story
versed helm
The humanity hell yeah moments are earned, typically.
sinful quartz
Its the difference between trying to be a badass, and being a badass
You can't -try- to be badass, because being a badass means you don't -try-, you just DO
versed helm
And honestly, they're pretty subtle. Like Halo is a universe where multi-faceted things happen
And then it just leaves you to interpret it
sinful quartz
Yeah, halo does it well
Its why I doint like Halo 4-5's UNSC
because the danger is gone
The fight against overwhelming odds
versed helm
4-5's UNSC are a guilty pleasure to me
sinful quartz
The way the novels put the 4-5 UNSC are decent.
versed helm
My own beliefs in real life cause me to just derive a great deal of pleasure from seeing humanity just being strong
sinful quartz
its the game version I don't like.
sinful quartz
I would have greatly preferred a halo 4-5 that showed a recovering humanity.
Not a -recovered- one
versed helm
Well that's why I love Glasslands tbh
sinful quartz
Glasslands was -this- close to being amazing.
feral perch
In-fin-i-tee, heck y e a h
feral perch
Let's ram a Covenant cruiser
gilded mason
Argh, the Kilo-5 trilogy.
sacred dew
The created the didact the covenant remnants yep no danger here
feral perch
bash its hull into oblivion
feral perch
Halo 4 soundtrack is beautiful
carmine sleet
Looters, I won't fight you, but I will absolutely agree with you
sinful quartz
I just don't like all the tech increases
versed helm
Awww yeee
sinful quartz
And how so many worlds survived
versed helm
I really wanna hear 117 in-game again
feral perch
Requiem and Legacy are so atmospheric and haunting
sinful quartz
Halo 3 had Earth be the last world
The last bastion
and now there are suddenly loads of worlds left
feral perch
That's not strictly true
versed helm
Well, there's some worlds left
feral perch
there were plenty of worlds "behind" Earth
sinful quartz
Except, the Covenant went for those too
-all- the outer colonies were gone by 2535
not just the ones in one direction
sinful quartz
COle Protocol
versed helm
When I read a statement like "all of something's gone", in my head I always have a little leniency for exceptions.
feral perch
fine
sacred dew
Earth was almost lost in 4 as well
sinful quartz
It talks about how most if not all of the Outer Colonies are lost.
feral perch
I haven't read Evolutions
versed helm
Most if not all are lost
sinful quartz
Which is good
versed helm
At least, lost to the UEG
feral perch
I want to hear Immaterial play in Infinite
versed helm
How many exactly is that tho?
sinful quartz
Did you know that in Halo 3 they added a list that showed how many humans were still alive at the end of the war?
Guess how many
feral perch
imagine exploring the Palace of Pain with that track playing
versed helm
How's that
sacred dew
A few dozen at most
sinful quartz
356 million
sinful quartz
Halo 3 ended with 356 million humans alive.
because Earth got hit -hard- by the Covenant
feral perch
Don't take Bungie's lore with too much credibility
versed helm
Bungie kinda just said whatever was cool
And I've never heard the 356 million figure so it doesn't bother me
Can't really have been a lore cornerstone
sinful quartz
Oh yeah, im just saying. I feel halo 4-5 dont feel like the war has been kinda shrugged of
It shoudl be earth, maybe 2-3 inner colonies, and a handful of outer colony remnants.
versed helm
I'm not sure about that.
sinful quartz
Not a superpower.
versed helm
Like we see one real powerful fleet
sacred dew
And somehow 4 years later earth has a population in the billions
sinful quartz
Making the UNSC a post-war superpower was a mistake IMO
versed helm
And a nice looking city on Earth
gilded mason
As always, if only Halo 4 took place a decade or so down the timeline.
sinful quartz
Or what Ostral said
versed helm
Well Legacy of Onyx goes into how Earth was repopulated...
spiral coral
Do the books coincide with the lore??
versed helm
Mostly
feral perch
uh what
gilded mason
They try.
feral perch
yeah
sacred dew
Cloning?
sinful quartz
I know, Looters. 343 and the writers -did- put efforts into eplaining that stuff
spiral coral
hmmm nice
versed helm
You gotta be discerning
sinful quartz
Whcih is nice.
spiral coral
yeah
feral perch
Spartan Clone training facility lol
versed helm
Like if you take everything at face value it can get in its own way
sinful quartz
I just feel that the UNSC in 4-5 was shown as too strong, and that the leftovers of the war were not strong enough.
versed helm
But if you're reasonable you shouldn't have a problem
sinful quartz
its like why i dont like the S-IV programme
Things get boring when you got so many Spartans
versed helm
Some bits of lore are certainly closer to canon than others, at least in the fan conception
Like you've got your Silent Storms and you've got your Nightfalls
feral perch
There's really not that many Spartans
gilded mason
I think it'd be neat if every Spartan died. 🙃
feral perch
ostral, go sit in the corner
versed helm
You're just jelly
sacred dew
The infinity there most powerful ship almost got yanked in a comic
sinful quartz
I feel the Spartan IV programme shoudl at least be dangerous
And not have a perfect success rate
spiral coral
they will need to do an order 66 when the spartans get too prosperous
feral perch
why?
versed helm
I'm on Mayto's page a little bit here
gilded mason
You're just jelly
Correct. I don't like how saturated they are. 😋
feral perch
They've had three programs to perfect Spartanization
versed helm
It is a tad jarring
sinful quartz
Cause then you don't have the awkward question of ""Why don't they just have nothing -but- spartans"
Think of it like this
sacred dew
Higher chances if rogue Spartans
versed helm
Well that's easy to answer
sinful quartz
One ninja fighting ten guys is awesome
versed helm
Cost
sinful quartz
ten ninjas fighting ten guys is boring
feral perch
No, not really - becoming a Spartan is a huge personal commitment
Not everybody wants that
spiral coral
like why we still have infantry when there is special forces
versed helm
And honestly sorta shifting up the scale of humanity's holdings makes Spartans even more scarce
sinful quartz
Thats the thing.
feral perch
Plus, not everybody is qualified to be a Spartan
sinful quartz
Spartans should be special forces
gilded mason
I do like that SIVs now have to get tune-ups or risk falling apart, at least.
sinful quartz
Not the standard troops, like it feels so much.
versed helm
But I did some maths and like, even postwar the UNSC military as a whole is tens of millions, minimum.
sinful quartz
@gilded mason That is an excellent addition tbf
versed helm
And it's high tooth-to-tail
So we're talking triple digit Spartans in a sea of quite a lot of regular soldiers
sinful quartz
Its why in halo Infinite, we can have all the Spartan IV's gone if we're lucky.
versed helm
And that sea is still fairly modest by Halo's standards
feral perch
that's very unlikely
versed helm
Lmao, that's an unreasonable thing to expect
sinful quartz
No ONI labs, all the spartan IV's die from their organs shutting down.
versed helm
And I'm attached to some SIV characters
sinful quartz
I'm being facetious.
versed helm
Whew
gilded mason
lol
feral perch
I want another full-on Jun storyline
versed helm
Look at this shifty hinge-head
sinful quartz
Just saying, its very specific for 343 to say that Spartan IV's die if they dont get new organs every few years.
sacred dew
And some of the Spartan 4 are 3s
versed helm
You just know Ostral was about to agree
gilded mason
😉
feral perch
Give that man some Mjolnir and have him fight with Chief on Zeta Halo
sinful quartz
As Kaidon of a keep, he basically has a Harem
carmine sleet
They didn't turn any S-IIIs into S-IVs, Richard
feral perch
They integrated them into the Spartan-IV branch
sacred dew
No they got absorbed into the Spartan 4 program
gilded mason
Yup
sinful quartz
In cole protocol, the first thing the Arbiter does when having a success is talking about bringing in many women to the keep so "the common rooms shall swell"
Elites do marry.
Its just succesfull elites are expected to have kids with more than their wives
versed helm
Oh, well, it's been too long since I've read The Cole Protocol then
carmine sleet
They didn't turn them into S-IVs, they are still S-IIIs
feral perch
with Keith David's voice, he's got no problem lol
sinful quartz
Yeah, the novel ends with the implication the Arbiter was going to celebrate his mission by sleeping with the women of his keep.
As many as possible.
versed helm
Cheeky bugger
gilded mason
How straight of him.
sinful quartz
Its not even treated as a thing worht mentioning just
deep pewter
I like arbiter more now
versed helm
And here I thought Staten was the gratuitous one when it came to alien cooties
feral perch
oh boi
sinful quartz
"Okay, time to have lots of kids with all the women in the keep. gotta do my job as Kaidon"
gilded mason
"It's a sacrifice I am willing to make"
sinful quartz
"were it so easy"
feral perch
I want someone to mod Halo 3 with Sgt. Foley's voice lines. Imagine playing a level and hearing Arby say, "Ramirez, take out that chopper gunner with your throwing knife!"
versed helm
YES
sacred dew
I know I was saying there are Spartan 3 in the 4 program not that they get there agumentation
sinful quartz
So, I'd like to see a child of the Arbiter
carmine sleet
They aren't in the program, they're just part of the Spartan branch
gilded mason
Maybe they and Asum can be friends.
sinful quartz
Named John'ee
feral perch
^^^^^^^^
feral perch
yesyesyes
sinful quartz
(Elites add 'ee to their names for military service)
Arbiter just naming all hids kids after the Master Chief
gilded mason
They add "ee" to their last names to denote Covenant military service
feral perch
Oooooooh, this would make the Halo purists so mad, if Arby says to Chief,
"You gotta aim down your sights."
gilded mason
lol
sinful quartz
Only elite I wanna see more, is the elite who designed helioskrill armor
versed helm
Honestly
gilded mason
Oh yeah, she sounds neato.
sinful quartz
Because of how damn ballsy she was
Stole Mjolnir Armor
Hacked it
Made her own version
feral perch
"Aim down your s i g h t s."
gilded mason
Ye
sinful quartz
sold it back
versed helm
My favourite bit in Halo 5
gilded mason
Cheeky stuff. 👌
feral perch
I want to see Mahkee in person
versed helm
But you make yourself more accurate by having your gun conjure a hologram
And using that
Like wut
sinful quartz
@gilded mason She'd be awesome if she did tech support with Chief in Infinite
Imagine her and Halsey bickering over upgrades to Mjolnir
""
feral perch
That'd be brilliant
sinful quartz
"I'm telling you, Nanocomposite Alloys are better than Titanium A"
"You don't know what you're talking about!"
"I made a Mjolnir better than yours from scraps in my workshop!"
gilded mason
lol
feral perch
sshhh, sci-fi noobs don't know that
gilded mason
Though mostly, I want to see Ayit, N'tho, Rtas, Nizat, and Tam more. Oh, and the lesser known Tul: The Sangheili engineer from Broken Circle.
sinful quartz
Its the way Elites call that super strong metal they make their stuff from.
@gilded mason Brosk the Grunt
versed helm
You're thinking of nanolaminate
feral perch
Not Brosk
versed helm
Stolt
gilded mason
Stolt, ya mean?
feral perch
Ayit 'Sevi?
versed helm
The UNSC uses laminate materials too
sinful quartz
Stolt the legend
versed helm
SPI armour plating
feral perch
The uh, human Sangheili?
sinful quartz
What I meant
gilded mason
Ayit 'Sevi?
Yeah, he cute.
feral perch
please
sinful quartz
nanolaminate
gilded mason
The uh, human Sangheili?
Ugh, that description.
feral perch
contain your fluids
feral perch
you'll have to pay reparations in weapon designation lore to Looters, Mayto
gilded mason
"Sangheili only act one way, so this guy is super special for not acting the same way as the rest of his species."
proud quail
sounds kinda
versed helm
The UNSC has Titanium-A which can be called Titanium Nanocomposite or Molecularly-Reinforced Titanium, as well as Laminate and Titanium-Ceramic Composite Armour
gilded mason
Yes.
sinful quartz
ehh. more like
versed helm
The Covenant have Metal-Matrix Materials and Nanolaminate
sinful quartz
"This elite isnt honorable and likes it"
One tning I wish we got in Halo Wars 2, would have been humans working with the Banished.
Imagine how cool that woulda been
feral perch
I don't wish for that
sinful quartz
Banished with Insurrectionists with them
versed helm
I approve
gilded mason
Though the comic described it like an aberration, which was stupid.
versed helm
If only cuz I never waste an opportunity to waste an innie
sinful quartz
Halo Escalation is trash.
versed helm
If ya know what I'm sayin
proud quail
dont humans canonically work with banished or am i misremembering fanfiction again
sinful quartz
They do
feral perch
they don't
sinful quartz
anyone can join the Banished
And the Spartan Field Manual mentions the Banished working with human crime syndicates
feral perch
Atriox lets his people hunt humans for sport
gilded mason
Apparently there's some connection between the Banished and human pirates, but I think that's the most we've heard so far?
feral perch
The exact wording doesn't lend itself to that specific interpretation, Mayto
it could be multiple things
versed helm
I mean Atriox tried to make a deal with Cutter so clearly he's open
sinful quartz
It also says anyone who submist to Atriox can join
Its just few humans are physically formiddable enough
versed helm
Even if human soldiers do not make up any real Banished military force
feral perch
A deal where Cutter would leave, not join, Looters.
sinful quartz
Like. I love how the Banished show what the Covenant and Brutes can do with some real time, effort, and no Prophets banning technological improvements.
versed helm
That said UNSC infantry are like now canonically superior in a fight to Covenant infantry, at least by Chief's reckoning
Thanks Oblivion 👍
Tactics and jackhammers
That's the name of the game
versed helm
Nah
feral perch
SPNKr launchers can solve any problem
sinful quartz
And then he is outmanouvered by an elite General, and beaten
proud quail
oof
sinful quartz
He said it in the context of humans winning on the ground.
versed helm
That's what infantry is
feral perch
Superior because of tactical preferences, I think. And yeah, on the ground.
versed helm
Ground troops
sinful quartz
Right before the Elites won due to better strategy
proud quail
do elites have generals or admirals
proud quail
im confused on their ranking structure
versed helm
Well the Covenant won due to overwhelming force and doing something unexpected
sinful quartz
It has Ministries
Each of which is its own quasi-government
Which have vassals in the forms of traders/keeps/whatever
versed helm
Chief's statement indicates to me that given relatively fair force dispositions UNSC infantry, if they play their cards right, can expect to come out on top.
sinful quartz
And each Ministry has its own armed forces
feral perch
Elites like to charge into battle and disregard safety given the chance. Grunts are canon fodder. Jackals present probably the most consistently dangerous threat to human infantry, I'd say. shudders in Outskirts
gilded mason
John noted that the ground advantage was going away.
But if they were starting to field leaders capable of anticipating UNSC tactics—and then turning those tactics to the Covenant’s advantage—the UNSC was in danger of losing the only edge it did have.
The admission shook John more than he expected — not because the mission had failed, but because of the reason it had failed. Humanity’s one advantage over the Covenant — its superior infantry and better ground tactics — appeared to be slipping away.
gilded mason
Oh you
sinful quartz
@proud quail basically, the Covenant isnt a government like we'd recognize it
Its more like...
versed helm
I mean I hold Covenant ground troops in fairly high esteem
sinful quartz
You have High Charity
versed helm
You know this
stoic hamlet
Well they are, yes @sinful quartz
stoic hamlet
They’re like the HRE
sinful quartz
with an overarching government
versed helm
Plasma weapons are one hit kills on unshielded troops, an Elite could easily mangle an entire Marine squad in point blank range
But UNSC soldiers fight dirty and use hella big guns
sinful quartz
It also has loads of warlords and rebellions all the time
Its not uncommon for a ministry to fight another one
stoic hamlet
Like the HRE
sinful quartz
HRE is a good way to put it actually
gilded mason
HRE?
sinful quartz
But in Sci Fi terms
versed helm
Holy Roman Empire
stoic hamlet
Holy Roman Empire
sinful quartz
@gilded mason Holy Roman Empire
versed helm
Hah
gilded mason
Ah.
sinful quartz
I beat ya
stoic hamlet
Darn
sinful quartz
But the Covenant actually feels inspired by the Imperium of Man of all things.
With its system of Tithe fleets
stoic hamlet
Oh wait no I was first, yay!
sinful quartz
A weak central government
feral perch
wellllll, how weak was it really?
proud quail
@sinful quartz bladerunnerscream.jpeg
sinful quartz
and a series of instritutions/quasi governments that all share fuedal oaths and tithes
stoic hamlet
It’s definitely closer to HRE I think
proud quail
nothing you've said made sense to me
sinful quartz
It has Tithe fleets.
gilded mason
A lot of the descriptions of Covenant stuff in Warfleet felt pretty Warhammer-y, yeah.
stoic hamlet
Not necessarily Imperium
versed helm
Which isn't a bad thing
sinful quartz
Its just the best sci-fi comparison.
stoic hamlet
True enough
versed helm
I mean like I personally am a big fan of how it like reverse the Imperium of Man
You've got the good guys mowing down the hapless crusaders
Instead of vice-versa
Putting it real simplistically
stoic hamlet
Mhm
versed helm
It's satisfying to me when reason and morality prevail
proud quail
heretic
sinful quartz
@proud quail basically. The Hierarchs and the High Council rules the Covenant.
The high council is composed of a mixture of military leaders, and the leaders of Ministries.
Ministries are like if you took, say, the Department of Agriculture, and gave it its own army, navy, and government.
versed helm
To the extent that they can in the UNSC's case
Which in my eyes is a pretty good extent
proud quail
i'd argue that there is morale and reason in 40k but this aint the server for it
feral perch
I've been listening to Halo: Cryptum recently, for the first time. It's really given me a new perspective and appreciation for the Didact in Halo 4
versed helm
Yeah
stoic hamlet
Just look up the Holy Roman Empire. That’s basically the Covenant.
sinful quartz
So. imagine the american government, and the FDA, DEA, Navy, army, Air Force, Coast Guard, and every other department of state have their own internal power strucutre, army, navy, and fueds with each other
And these feuds often result in war
Thats about how effective the Covenant government is at times.
stoic hamlet
Yeah
proud quail
whack
stoic hamlet
Pretty much
versed helm
I mean the Covenant isn't racked by civil war
sinful quartz
Well no, thats because its too big
versed helm
It seems generally speaking more stable in the long term than the pre-HCW human sphere
stoic hamlet
It’s more like small skirmishes occasionally
sinful quartz
But internal fighting is quite common.
Its just that High Charity is violence-free
spiral coral
sounds like Klingons
sinful quartz
Until the Grunts get angry
versed helm
Well you're kinda reducing the Covenant down to a few cherry-picked examples by saying that
feral perch
I really want a novel with exposition on Doisac and the integration of the Brutes. And, for once, a sympathetic and relatable Jiralhanae character.
versed helm
It's a conglomerate of civilizations with an imposed common goal
Some places will be quite peaceful
Others will not
stoic hamlet
Yep
sinful quartz
Its actually a bit understated, but Truth, Mercy, and Regret, were actually breaking a lot of rules that were supposed to -avoid- something like the Human Covenant war.
versed helm
It's not really conflict-wracked, though, in a comparable way to the incessant squabbling of the Electors
sinful quartz
The Covenant had laws that were specifically to avoid violence with new species unless they refused to join
proud quail
doesnt sound like they did a good job
oh wait i read the sentence wrong
they did do a good job
sinful quartz
Refusing to inform the Covenant of discovering a new species was punishable by castration.
proud quail
that's...one way to punish someone
versed helm
That's how we roll mang
sinful quartz
Well, that was Truth, Regret, and Mercy panicking a bit tbf
versed helm
🤘
proud quail
tell us of the new kids or we CBT
feral perch
Breaking stuff to look tuff
sinful quartz
They just didnt know the full details
They thought humanity only had Harvest (because of bad intel)
And thought a quick glassing would nip the problem in the bud
sinful quartz
Its why they were -really- unhappy when they learned the full extent
sinful quartz
And Truth spent most of the war trying to avoid the Covenant learning how big the war was
proud quail
it's amazing the lot of bad decisions they made for the whole 27 years
feral perch
Hahah!
sinful quartz
This is how it went
sinful quartz
Elite General sent to fight the humans
versed helm
I read that in the laugh from the Johnson CE promo, StoneWall
Was I wrong
After he shotguns the Grunt
sinful quartz
Elite general notices the humans aint some kind of beasty demonic race, and are actually quite normal
feral perch
No, you were so, so right
sinful quartz
Elite general asks questions
versed helm
✊
feral perch
✊
versed helm
Imagine what Thel was thinking when he was asking to just continue his campaign
sinful quartz
Its why they replaced the elites with brutes. Because the Elites weren't the type to commit genocide without a damn good reason
And they were quick to figure out something was wrong
Which is why Truth assasinated leaders
Kept the most violent and psychopathic around
versed helm
He was basically just asking for a little time and a quick death instead of what he got
sinful quartz
And tended to move people around a lot
versed helm
Which was humiliation
gilded mason
poor thel
versed helm
That's my take on H2 now anyway
gilded mason
Sounds reasonable
feral perch
The Hierarch Triumvirate was apparently afraid that Mjolnir would expose the truth about humanity, or lead to it.
sinful quartz
More that is disproved the whole "they are dumb ignorant heretical beasts"
Seeing Mjolnir makes you go "Wait. That armor is actually really good."
versed helm
Lmao
sinful quartz
"How did dumb heretics make that?"
versed helm
Coulda disproved the first bit when Cole was kicking their butts across the stars in the first bit of the War
feral perch
Was that actually propaganda? That humans were stupid?
versed helm
True hero
sinful quartz
More that the humans weren't "people"
but half beast/immoral demons
For each battle Cole won, the UNSC lost another tbf
feral perch
Not the same thing, though. Most Sangheili figured out that humans had tactical ingenuity, and some even believed they had honor.
sinful quartz
Yeah. Which they often had trouble rationalizing
feral perch
Demon was a label only applied to Spartans, though.
feral perch
semantics
sinful quartz
The Covenant is an ecclesiastichal bureaucratic oligarchy
Semantics are important for them 😛
gilded mason
Gesundheit
sinful quartz
When you are raised from birht to treat the word of Prophets as the word of the gods, and infalliable
Seeing them wrong just
Doesnt work
You can't rationalize it
404's your brain
gilded mason
Gotta detox
versed helm
Gotta deprogram
feral perch
Eh, not entirely true. Thel dealt with the Prophets contradicting each other by just focusing on the war effort.
versed helm
It's like the cult stuff mentality you hear about these days
gilded mason
I did like how Nizat and Tam treated the Prophet that was with them in Silent Storm.
feral perch
Lol yeah.
sinful quartz
How they slowly got more and more sick of him
gilded mason
Ye
sinful quartz
Until they just killed him
If truth's actions had been revealed in full, he would have been nailed to the wall by the Covenant.
gilded mason
Good stuff
feral perch
Nizat understood that Prophets were fallible, but he still wanted to please the Triumvirate.
sinful quartz
By the elites for lying to them
gilded mason
Yeah
sinful quartz
and by the other prophets for going around them.
What truth did was actually really heretical.
gilded mason
Indeed.
feral perch
Are we talking Michael Wincott Truth or Terence Stamp Truth? kek
feral perch
I'll say Michael Wincott
sinful quartz
Contact harvest had a beer drinking, concubine-loving, truth who just wanted to enjoy being a prophet.
If not for him hearing from the Oracle, he would probably have been a semi-decent Prophet just following ceremony and keeping things running along as normal
Mercy would have remained an old priest in the dreadnought.
gilded mason
Truly tragic.
main rivet
Yep, FUD wrote a piece a while back about how if you view the Halo franchise from the Covenant perspective, Truth is basically Halo's tragic hero. http://www.forwarduntodawn.com/the-shroud/
sinful quartz
He was actually always packing heat, and didnt hesitate to shoot anyone who got in his way.
gilded mason
||hidden smg||
main rivet
(It's also a way to reconcile the Terrence Stamp and Wincott Truths into a single character arc.)
sinful quartz
tbf, I think it makes sense for Truth to just snap after all those years
main rivet
I think he sort of did.
sinful quartz
We are talking of spending 27 years playing a constant political game that can get you and your whole race killed
feral perch
Truth has a legendary -redacted-
sinful quartz
No shit he went mad
main rivet
Not in a "went crazy" way, but that he ran into dwindling options and basically decided to sacfice everything at his shot at godhood, and failed.
(I don't think he realized the Halos would nuke everybody, his line in Halo 3 notwithstanding.)
main rivet
Yeah, but before that.
There's no sense in sending Tartarus to activate Delta Halo
if he knew it was going to kill them.
There's no way he could be sure it wouldn't activate (after all, even with Arby showing up it nearly did!)
main rivet
And his actions of leisurely making his way to the Ark doesn't square with foreknowledge.
sinful quartz
Spartan vs Prelate duel
Just a spartan attacking a prophet on his chair, and the prophet jumps off, and begins beating the spartan to death
feral perch
Prelates are just barely comparable to a III.
sinful quartz
Actually,the writer of the story came out in an interview to explain it
He said Prelates -are- the equivalent of Spartans
"The idea behind my store was. What if there was a Prophet able to defeat a Spartan?"
Its just
feral perch
If you read Shadow of Intent and study the way he fights against Elites, it's not difficult to see a Spartan taking out a Prelate in battle.
sinful quartz
They are different in another way.
Spartans are strong, and enduring
Prelates are fast and beyond agile
feral perch
Spartans have Spartan-time
sinful quartz
Not that kinda fast
feral perch
Yes.
sinful quartz
Like.
feral perch
Spartan-IIs are just as fast as Prelates, at least.
sinful quartz
Different kinda movement
feral perch
It's still maneuverability
sinful quartz
Yes, excellent for zero g stuff
Not "I just jumped over this guy, landed behind him, and cut off his head before he had time to respond"
Spartans are Marathon runners, Prelates are sprinters
feral perch
The Prelate had trouble killing Rtas 'Vadum.
sinful quartz
So?
feral perch
That doesn't inspire confidence in their ability to kill Spartans.
gilded mason
Rtas is an extremely skilled guy
sinful quartz
In Hunters in the dark, there are elites who make spartans look slow
feral perch
Spartans are stronger than Elites.
sinful quartz
Elites who are weaker than Rtas
gilded mason
Some are
feral perch
That's Spartan-IVs, not IIs or even IIIs.
versed helm
In MJOLNIR, that is.
sinful quartz
spartan IV's in MK2 are as strong as S-II's
versed helm
One Spartan in MJOLNIR is much the same as another.
feral perch
As a general rule for the first two Spartan generations, yes, in Mjolnir.
gilded mason
There's gonna be a lot of variation in such a large population.
sinful quartz
Elite Minors are untrained and overeager
versed helm
Elites do seem to have a sorta greater range of physical dimensions and capabilities than humans.
sinful quartz
Then you got those spec ops from hunters in the darkwho deflect the blasts from Prometheans
With their sword
feral perch
how'd you bypass the censor?
gilded mason
...lol
sinful quartz
@versed helm Ever heard of Xytan?
versed helm
I have.
sinful quartz
3.5 meter tall elite
versed helm
That's part of what I'm saying.
sinful quartz
jfc
feral perch
N'tho and Uzse are what I call "hero" Elites.
versed helm
But I do also, on average, think a Spartan can be expected to physically outmatch an Elite.
Though obviously it's the whims of the story.
Slash the whims of the universe if you wanna get all in-canon about it.
feral perch
Spartans IIIs were said to move so fast that Elites couldn't follow their motions, in SPI armor.
versed helm
Like Jerome smacked one across the room when he was boarding the Enduring
Not only do I wanna do that in game
feral perch
I think that they could surely handle a Prelate.
versed helm
It's a pretty good yardstick
gilded mason
Spartans IIIs were said to move so fast that Elites couldn't follow their motions, in SPI armor.
To be honest, I always rolled my eyes when I read that part in Ghosts.
sinful quartz
Elites vary a lot depending on their armor, training or even breeding
Remember. Some Sangheili works have incredibly intense eugenics programmes
And had for 3000 years
sinful quartz
I think that helps explain it a bit tbf
gilded mason
ur a piffle
sinful quartz
Some elites are the warhorses to the other elite’s pony’s
versed helm
I'd say the inbreeding would account for any genetic benefit.
But combat's about luck, equipment and will to win.
Generally speaking Spartans have all three.
sinful quartz
Well the elites do their damnedest to avoid inbreeding tho
feral perch
Spartan-time would allow a Spartan to avoid a Prelate's attacks until they tired out, and then the Spartan would just destroy the poor San'Shyuum
versed helm
Eugenics = inbreeding, if you give it enough time.
gilded mason
Ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
Fifteen percent concentrated power of will
Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name
versed helm
Ye ye
sinful quartz
So like. I’d say a prelate prolly wouldn’t win a straight up brawl
But they’d win an ambush
Or at least a fight they started
versed helm
How about a gunfight on even terms?
feral perch
That could be the case.
sinful quartz
Whoever had the better gun @versed helm
feral perch
Give the Spartan an M6D
versed helm
Armour also plays a role.
sinful quartz
Prelate armor is the closest thing to a combat skin since the time of the forerunners
feral perch
um what
sinful quartz
In terms of design
Not capabilities
Closest is -relative-
It’s still nowhere near even a basic combat skin
versed helm
I think much is made about Prelates
But they're an oddity more than a force to be reckoned with
feral perch
Agreed.
sinful quartz
I’d say that if you look at the part of Reach where the three elites drop down into a room
If those had been prelates, there woulda been dead Spartans
sinful quartz
But again. Different uses
feral perch
Zealots are tried and true. Prelates have some distinct downsides.
sinful quartz
Prelates don’t have a melee obsession like elites
They’d shoot an enemy where an elite would draw an energy sword and get in close
feral perch
Tem worked specially with a melee weapon tho
sacred dew
A preset is the covenant version of Spartan
feral perch
Elites use ranged weapons where it's appropriate. Kat's head is evidence of that XD
sinful quartz
(Which 9/10 is a gun)
stable schooner
Those Zealots got beaten I don’t know what you folks are talking about.
sinful quartz
Look, all I’m saying, is that the writers said Prelates can match Spartans. And I don’t see a reason to go against that
feral perch
We have one story and one fight scene to go off, Mayto.
sinful quartz
And an interview to elaborate upon them
sinful quartz
Lemme get home to my PC
feral perch
k
sinful quartz
]
sacred dew
And a zealot has never beaten a Spartan
stable schooner
A problem with Prelates is theirs not really enough material to properly judge their skills. When Some Actual Spartan Prelate Combat happens then we can judge
That second Zealot fairly beat Emile though. My man had a radar and decided to Gloat
feral perch
What the writers say can be helpful, but it doesn't always fit with the lore. For instance, with Halo 4, in the scene where Del Rio has a tantrum, Chris Schlerf said that he originally wrote the dialogue "Lieutenant, arrest that man!" to be referencing Palmer. That's been retconned to someone off-screen, because Palmer wasn't a Lieutenant.
gilded mason
Think I found it for ya, @sinful quartz
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/books-browsers-and-big-team
After I combined this idea with another that’s been kicking around my head for years—What if there was a San’Shyuum powerful enough to best a Spartan in single combat?
gilded mason
Hm?
sinful quartz
... Are you on Spacebattles.com?
gilded mason
I go there, yeah
stable schooner
Of course it seems when ever a energy Sword is involved suddenly any Elite and their Sangheili mother has a chance to win
feral perch
lololol
sinful quartz
I liked the bit in Oblivion where the Covenant had bridging vehicles
Such a tiny but nice tidbit
feral perch
Same!
versed helm
That kind of stuff is just 😩 👌
sacred dew
Wait mayo ur the writer of united we stand right
sinful quartz
A 1km telescope bridge.
versed helm
Always a big fan of seeing practical combat capabilities.
sinful quartz
Yes. but pls dont talk about it here, haha. @sacred dew
@versed helm Or the Covenant having APC's
sacred dew
Awww fine
sinful quartz
Oooh! And mentions of Wraiths having pinpint 2km range to their mortars, how deadly they are.
And stuff like the Covenant actually having some measure of a bootcamp for elites.
With a lot of luck.
it survives the heat
feral perch
because it’s cool
sinful quartz
That's pretty much it
sacred dew
They have a 20meter vaporization radius and the blast radius is larger
sinful quartz
Actually the real issue is that when something goes down in orbit
It burns up
If it doesn't, it impacts
Chief survived Halo 3's fall by using the door of a Covenant ship as a heatshield
gilded mason
Luck
gilded mason
Somehow his organs didn't break like eggs from luck.
sacred dew
Metal bones go a long way
versed helm
The actual factors at play are some combination of the angle of impact and MJOLNIR's impact absorption capabilities.
sinful quartz
Ever heard of Liquid shock absorption?
versed helm
Plus Spartan physiology, of course.
sinful quartz
Basically. Mjolnir actually has a layer of gel in the armor
In the middle of it.
That Gel layer is pumped up to extreme, and put under pressure
Upon impact, the shockwave hits the gel layer, and stops there
Its why in Sci Fi you sometimes see humans sitting inside water tanks while undergoing high acceleration
The water absorbs the shock and protects the squishy human.
gilded mason
Though how much water was used?
sinful quartz
A more macabre example. A scientist once shot a pregnant mouse out of a hydraulic cannon.
the babies were fine
gilded mason
Huh.
sinful quartz
Just cut the mother open, and out they went. Kept them as pets iirc
So if you had a thick enough gel layers
Yeah,m that would definitely help you survive an impact
So long the suit maintains integrity
On reach a couple spartans died when the pressure seals on their armor broke, and the gel failed
Then you turn into confetti
stable schooner
That’s kinda messed up and Pg13
versed helm
Halo's always at its best when it's mature and dark.
sacred dew
Like in oblivion when the nuke went off and the shockwave hit Fred so the suit harden the gel layer
stable schooner
I meant the Mouse thing, in Halo I agree
versed helm
Hard to tell a human story without authentic and gritty adversity.
feral perch
I actually like when everything goes well and people get a happy ending.
that might be boring, but I like it.
stable schooner
Halo Wars 2 Lol
feral perch
Anders didn't get a happy ending
stable schooner
Any ending that isn’t confirmed death or being chained to a wall is decent enough for a Human ending when they live in a universe with Flood
feral perch
I s'pose
versed helm
30.5 meters (100 ft)
Troop Bay: 6.19 meters (20.3 ft)[2]
Width:
Wingspan: 23.3 meters (76 ft)
Troop Bay: 4.65 meters (15.3 ft)
Height:
10 meters (33 ft)
10.5 meters (34 ft) with landing gear
Troop Bay: 3.23 meters (10.6 ft)```
analog anchor
Thanks
sacred dew
Anyone think the mantles approach will make a return in the future because even though i was destroyed it's design seed is on the genesis
gilded mason
Nope
carmine sleet
I don't think the design seed for it is on Genesis either
And even if a design seed was used to make a ship to the same specs, it wouldn't be the Mantle's Approach
It could be called the Mantle's Approach II but I don't think we'll see that happen in Halo
sacred dew
No the warfleet section said it ejected it core and it needs sufficient resources to rebuild itself
obsidian thistle
Reminder that I need to split the D77 page into two pages xD
The normal D77-TC. And the Reach version the D77-TAL
sinful quartz
@obsidian thistle Are you the guy running the halo wiki 😮 ?
sacred dew
How fast can a Spartan run
scenic garnet
"Only a few months after augmentation procedures, the SPARTAN-IIs were capable of running at speeds exceeding 55 km/h or 34.2 mph. Kelly-087 was noted as capable of running even faster.
From: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/so-i-m-a-bit-confused-on-how-fast-spartans-are/e591a76b-e023-48bf-b938-bd4f563989a5/posts
Faster than Usain Bolt
Bolt made a world record of 9.58 seconds for the 100m race, with a top speed clocking in at 27.8 miles per hour (44.72 kilometers per hour)
stoic hamlet
the fastest a Spartan has ran has been over 100Km, but that was an unsustainable speed.
past olive
in The Fall of Reach, Kelly was able to move so fast she weaved in and out of direct live machine gun fire
sacred dew
Masterchief ran a km in Half a minute or was it half a km in a minute
past olive
I think it was the former
sacred dew
It was the training scene when ackerson tried to assassinate him was it tfor or first strike?
feral perch
Training scene
versed helm
TFoR
And it wasn't training
It was the MJOLNIR Mark V test
Though I s'pose Halopedia's current standpoint is that it was the test of the specific variant of Mark V which could house an AI
And in fact the SIIs had already been using Mark V for a year
Despite the fact that the test was clearly intended to run through Mark V's combat capabilities and Chief has obviously never used Mark V before because everything about it is new to him
But whatever
gilded mason
And in fact the SIIs had already been using Mark V for a year
Wait what?
versed helm
Read this
It's part of like an effort to reconcile at obvious retcon attempt by Bungie circa-Reach relating the Mark V with the book
gilded mason
😬
versed helm
I think it's from a Canon Fodder
Whatever it is it's poorly thought out and my interpretation of the universe ignores it
gilded mason
Sounds good.
versed helm
Oh wait
gilded mason
The mention of the field test reminds me, I thought it was kinda weird that John was giving all those marines debilitating injures along with Cortana mentioning "Golly, I'm surprised you haven't decided to kill any of them yet."
versed helm
I think it might have actually been Halo Encyclopedia info
Well, debilitating isn't necessarily debilitating in the 26th century
Just clone some new ribs for them or something lmao
Give em robot ribs
Slash spines
Slash everything
Oh yeah and nanites
That's like the three wheels of 26th century medicine
Nanites, cloned organs, cybernetics
Preferred in that order it seems
And in the field you've got sorta all-in-one substances like medigel and biofoam
gilded mason
Still...
Before the soldier could react, the Master Chief sidestepped and slammed his own rifle down—hard. The trooper screamed as his leg gave out. A jagged spoke of bone burst through the wounded man’s fatigues. The Master chief finished him with a rifle butt to his helmeted head.
versed helm
EZ fix
sacred dew
Ever Wonder if the clone meat
gilded mason
Probably
versed helm
Honestly the application of easily cloning organs and tissue and stuff could be awesome
Like if the UNSC can easily reconstruct its soldiers it can keep experienced NCOs in the field for longer
sacred dew
OK chief really likes overkill
versed helm
And experienced NCOs are the lifeblood of any fighting force
remote spruce
I do prefer Mark V being a thing in 2551 but it obviously was a F U to Fall of Reach's training section
versed helm
WHY THO
Like alright
NOBLE and other SIII teams I can understand
Obviously that makes sense
But just have them do the field testing, y'know?
No need to extend it to SIIs
And further invalidate TFoR
remote spruce
Wait it extended beyond IIIs?
versed helm
The Mark V's initial [B] variant as it was issued to SPARTAN-IIs on November 24, 2551. The helmet of the set is an upgraded version of the Mark IV helmet; the Mark V[B]'s dedicated helmet was issued exclusively to SPECWAR Group Three.
Scroll down
Appears to be from Halsey's Journal and the Encyclopedia
remote spruce
Is the Halo 3 description a typo?
gilded mason
Yeah...
remote spruce
I'm dead serious when I say I've never read or heard of that before today
`The Mk. V armor was the first of the line to be equipped with energy shields (based, in part, on captured Covenant matériel). S-117 was not the first Spartan to receive the Mk. V armor, as he had been in the field when it entered service on 24 Nov 2551. The most obvious indication of this is how familiar the Marines on the UNSC Pillar of Autumn (C-709) were with the armor.
So, what was so special about 29 Aug 2552? This was the very first time a "smart" AI had "piggy-backed" in the Mjolnir Mk. V powered assault armor during "live-fire" simulated combat conditions.
And while it’s true that the typical Spartan-III soldier was outfitted with the cheaper SPI armor, the members of Noble Team are anything but your typical `
stoic hamlet
I honestly don’t have a problem with it
John mentions he hasn’t seen some of the RED FLAG Spartans in years, IIRC.
And we know how travel is finicky.
remote spruce
Mark V helmet in 2542?
stoic hamlet
Oh yeah that’s odd
remote spruce
Like, aside from the fact that hasn't been mentioned since that armor description
Just why
stoic hamlet
Well, actually
The Mark V is just the Mark IV with shields, maybe that design of helmet was introduced in 2542?
remote spruce
Was I from a universe where that description didn't exist because I have no recollection of it at all
`Which companies did each member of Noble Team originally belong to?
That should already be evident by each member’s age.`
Ah yes Carter from Pre-Alpha Company
Of course
stoic hamlet
I really wish that was just a fluke
But then they made Hazel the same age.....for some reason.
feral perch
where are you reading this? lol
stoic hamlet
I’ve read that before myself, but I can’t recall where its from.
stoic hamlet
I genuinely don’t understand why Carter and Hazel are as old as they are. It doesn’t make sense
remote spruce
Genuinely confused about the whole 2542 thing, though I guess I never unlocked the armor
gilded mason
Maybe Carter and Hazel hacked into their profiles and edited it. As a prank. But nobody ever caught it.
stoic hamlet
Like mentioning Hazel’s age in the context that it was just seems odd as well.
It’s added in unnecessarily
It doesn’t need to be there
remote spruce
I think it's just there to make Carter not look like the only big boy
stoic hamlet
Just change his age
That’s all they had to do
Literally no one would negatively care if he was de-aged by five years.
It wouldn’t affect anything
remote spruce
If only Reach was released before the Encyclopedia
That way the Encyclopedia would have the "ah screw it" attitude
stoic hamlet
I still don’t understand why they made him that old in the first place.