I'd like to see visual depictions of mos of the stuff from Nylunds work really.
Kurt, Onyx both pre and post destruction. Tom and Lucy, S-IIIs that AREN'T in some fancy non-SPI armor.
#lore-and-universe
last anchor
stoic hamlet
We kind of get the Onyx visuals
And the III’s
But I would prefer regular SPI armour and stuff to more crazy non-SPI stuff.
looking at you, Mythos
But also it has one of if not the best SPI depictions......ever
So I’m torn
sacred dew
Onyx part of the crust is gone but the shield world is fine
humble yacht
No one eats the crust anyway
stoic hamlet
Hehe
stoic hamlet
The planet Onyx is gone
The shield world is there but it’s not made up of the planet, it’s inside SLipspace
coarse crown
Everything outside of that dissappeared in a big 'ol cloud of sentinals.
stoic hamlet
^^^
sacred dew
Oh so the guardian was inside the shield world I thought it was in the planet
Well the more u know
terse lava
@coarse crownincluding the sentinels
sacred dew
Man that's the biggest mystery of halo. where did the sentinels go?
humble yacht
To war
gilded mason
miranda no
carmine sleet
Miranda yes!
terse lava
heresy, remove this filth
sacred dew
To the retconnium
terse lava
Hm?
The bungie idea?
I am sad that never came to life
at least the first few arbiters likely would have been left alone
carmine sleet
It's unknown how many of their bodies were actually recovered, let alone the fact that it's quite possible that their bodies would've been far beyond the point at which they could be useful to the Flood
gilded mason
From the possibly traumatic deaths they might've suffered?
stoic hamlet
I feel they might have been burned had they been recovered. Immolated
carmine sleet
With some, it could be as simple as it being centuries since they died and the body had degraded to a point where it was useless
gilded mason
Depends on if they used some method of body preservation.
gilded mason
For most of the Covenant's life, to be an Arbiter was an amazing honor, so it seems basically guaranteed that they were trustworthy.
carmine sleet
That still doesn't mean it would be useful. What if one was squashed by a rogue Hunter or something, a pile of flattened guts and blood ain't useful or worth the effort of preserving
gilded mason
Then I guess for those that were beyond preserving, they instead entombed something symbolic.
dreamy plaza
Is anyone continuing this? I don't wanna be rude and interrupt this, but how well would the introduction of a new Armor/Weapons manufacturer be for the weird weapons I make
fair hazel
For your fan fiction?
dreamy plaza
You can consider it like that, yeah. Pretty much, just a basic name for those who made the weapon drawings I show
last anchor
Considering there must have been dozens if not hundreds of planet-only manufacturing companies (the same way there's companies that never leave one city, ex; that one hamburger place in Seattle), not very weird at all. Just dont say that its something like Misriah or Acheron or Chyblis.
dreamy plaza
Oh definitely not, my idea for it was that the forefront motto of it is merging any to all
Like, mixing old covenant tech with human tech and whatnot
warm ridge
@versed helm I'm pretty sure all the Arbiters in the Mausoleum of the Arbiter were all skeletons, I highly doubt each body was put in stasis honestly.
yes, even those.
Highly doubt any of then had any preservation efforts at all.
and yes, according to a H2A terminal, all there armor and such was still kept on them as the body was laid down in the chamber/coffin then lifted up and placed somewhere in it.
remote spruce
plasma pistols too /s
warm ridge
Think of it like a concrete cemetery/crematorium type of thing. Just more advanced. Even if it was just body parts, they still did it.
That's why the Elites/Prophets were "sad" when they weren't able to recover the remains of Ripa's body no matter how hard they tried to search for it.
(and obviously they couldn't find it because it practically was vaporized by the super nova of the "star")
terse lava
@warm ridgecurious, what's the source of that? That they cared at all what became of ripa's body?
versed helm
Imagine being such a huge lad that you need a special suit of armor made just for you.
Ripa was such a unit.
terse lava
Something I have been wondering, if humanity created a branch soldiers for flood combat. Have the swords and arbiter, or the covenant before them maintained a branch only for flood combat. Cloest I can think myself were zealots in the covenant's early years
normal helm
I thought you meant a branch of floodified soldiers, I was confused and thought of the Mona Lisa
gilded mason
lol
normal helm
Oh hey Ostral
gilded mason
Yo. Fancy seeing you here.
normal helm
Yep, you too.
sacred dew
No clue for the covenant but the cinder armour is most likely for flood combat
normal helm
Yep, for hazardous biological containment. Or the flood
warm ridge
@terse lava https://www.halopedia.org/Ripa_'Moramee
Death and Legacy section, near the very end.
terse lava
Interesting, wonder if it has anything to do with him being the 16th arbiter in the line of immaculate.succession.
Also odd that he was given such a lofty detailed title for something that's usually held for failed commanders
sonic ridge
Do Sangheilis native to Sanghelios eat vegetation
The new 343 ones imo clearly do because they have molars
But the Sanghelios/Bungie ones don’t have molars
humble yacht
There are ways to eat vegetables without molars
sonic ridge
There’s that one book where they cook
But I mean like the new elites specifically have molars
Maybe the vegetation on those planets is just tougher and they evolved to have them o eat the stuff better
humble yacht
I don’t think there is as much separation between “new” and “old” elites as you think
Could simply be added detail
humble yacht
I tried to find some official statement from 343 saying that elites from Hesduros were a different phenotype, but couldn’t
No grains and veggies are different
fair hazel
im pretty sure 343 has never refered to elite phenotypes
last anchor
Also yes, they eat grains. I think they have rice-like stuff
terse lava
Yep, irukan
full forge
oh god
sonic ridge
I wonder if they have mini energy swords and use it to cut slices of toast like the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
oak frigate
They do have those energy daggers
wintry coral
oak frigate
Ah yes
terse lava
A better question is this on the topic of sangheili cooking. Do they have an equivalent to gordan ramsey?
oak frigate
Anyway
One of the only things I know about food on sangheilios is that oni had made a strain of it as a way to kill Sangheili if they decide to betray humanity
terse lava
ONI, the Cerberus of halo
oak frigate
Not again
terse lava
Also what makes you a say avu is their Gordon ramsey?
versed helm
The Sangheili appreciates a good sense of ... crisping
He knows when a battle is raw
oak frigate
Gordon Ramsey has 12 letters
Avu Med 'Telcam has 12 letters
terse lava
...hm well can't argue with that
wintry coral
Does 'Telcam come up with hilarious roasts?
oak frigate
Probably not
terse lava
wort bang
wintry coral
Is he a chef?
wintry coral
Only difference is that Gordon roasts people and 'Telecom doesn't
terse lava
If we are going by that
Tartarus is gordan Ramsey, he knows how to sear flesh just the way his kin like it
terse lava
Any covenant could, look at thel
wintry coral
wintry coral
Lol
wintry coral
Ask the 1 billion people he has killed
oak frigate
Even Earth
terse lava
Harvest, the bread loaf that was in the oven too long
oak frigate
Oven was too long on it
oak frigate
Brutes eat stuff raw
I would say that anything with, or in control of, a glassing beam can be Gordon Ramsey
In short
terse lava
I fear not the line to the great roast, I embrace it!
oak frigate
I'm saying that a ship could in fact be Ramsey
lunar condor
Elite shipmaster called gordon and his ship ramsey there we go
lunar condor
The followers of the true roast
terse lava
In a moment I shall light this flame and all who are hungry, will be saved
oak frigate
Creatures of the kitchen, the path to salvation is broad, abd we shall walk it side by side
terse lava
"I will continue my cooking against the humans"
"No, you will not, soon the great roast shall begin. But when it does, the weight of your dish will stay feet, and you shall be left outside"
humble yacht
Miranda: “Then what? What would someone put on lamb to activate its flavor?”
343GS: “... Why, the lamb sauce, of course.”
Thel Ramsay: “And where, Oracle, is that?”
terse lava
Beautiful
oak frigate
"You are, all of you, worthless. Cowering in the kitchen, thinking what, I wonder? That you might escape the coming criticism? No. Your restaurant will fail until its kitchen is but empty! And not even your manager will live to see, shamed from his hole to mar the reflection of my wrath... the accumulation of our lamb sauce. For your closing is the will of the Gordon! And I? I am their instrument!"
terse lava
"There was only one critic."
"One, are you sure?"
"Yes, they called him the Ramsey"
versed helm
I WILL CONTINUE MY CAMPAIGN TO WIN THE CONFECTIONERY CONTEST
main rivet
So what’s going on in this channel— oh.
versed helm
You could say the chat has become a bit.... rampant.
oak frigate
Ah
oak frigate
Space Sheriff
sonic ridge
I got game pass so I’ll see who these unbreaking guys are then this week
They’re led by the brute guy right
carmine sleet
Unbreaking guys?
wintry coral
You mean the Banished? @sonic ridge
sonic ridge
Yea
wintry coral
The Brute Guy is Atriox
sonic ridge
He’s the leader of the banished tho
mental stump
Yes
sonic ridge
Okay
feral perch
Riser is a great character lol. “I’d sell him for a bag of fruit.”
safe siren
Question: the ORION soldier didn't have a powered armor like the S-II, right? Only standard equipment?
Perfect, thanks
last anchor
If they did have powered armor it would be what was later entitled MJLONIR MK I
versed helm
Was Emile's helmet an EVO type helmet by any chance?
terse lava
@versed helmquite certain yes
carmine sleet
It was an EVA helmet he customized with his iconic skull carving on the faceplate
humble yacht
1 mark for every kill
terse lava
@humble yacht would find it amusing if 99% were just grunts and the one zealot
carmine sleet
I mean, given the amount of Grunts the Covenant deploy, that wouldn't be surprising. Zealots are a rare sight on the battlefield
terse lava
True
feral perch
It depends on the battle group
humble yacht
I think zealots are reserved for the really important missions
Like artifact retrieval
Or map room guarding /s
stable schooner
Who knows their lore is changed all the time. Artifact retrieval yet not sent to get either Indexes.
carmine sleet
I believe that the Covenant on 04 didn't know that they needed the Index for activating the ring. Then with 05, Truth wanted to get rid of Arbiter, deploying Zealots to help him would be counterproductive to that. Not to mention the fact that the changing of the guard had just happened
stable schooner
None sent to get the Luminary for Regret either. deploying Zealots would ensure experienced Elites get killed while Brutes still get the Icon. I think Zealots being Artifact retrieval is kinda dumb imo and we never really see it happen but those are fair excuses.
visual swallow
one question, in the cutscene of Halo 2 Anniversary, the in amber clad is behind the ship of regret when they enter in the slipspace portal, but in Halo ODST, the in amber clad is next to the carrier and not behind. Which one is canon? Thanks 🙂
sacred dew
Most likely anniversary since it's the latest version
humble yacht
The first time around I don’t think they knew about the index
The second time around, they did send a zealot to get the index
versed helm
Don't we see Zealots on Reach as well? Can we not assume other than espionage/assassination, they were there to retrieve any relics?
Harvest talks about the Covenant being able to scan for relics
sacred dew
Yeah the most they knew about the rings was that it was a gate to heaven or ascension
humble yacht
There were zealots on reach
They had the cool maroon armor
They were first sent to Visegrad to learn about the forerunner artifact on reach from lazlo sorvad (who they killed)
stable schooner
Arbiter isn’t a Zealot anymore he’s the Arbiter and stripped of all other titles what you mean Chimera.
Plus we’re more talking battle groups here as in those Maroon Zealots you speak so highly of.
Also weird the Covenant force sent to attack Halseys research does not include Zealots 
feral perch
By the time Halsey’s lab was under attack, Rho had been killed by Jorge and his fleet largely replaced by others.
gilded mason
Rho had been killed by Jorge
Allegedly!
feral perch
Rho’s Zealots were probably scrambling to figure out what they should do.
They may not have attacked Halsey’s lab because they didn’t want to be seen by certain other Covenant.
obsidian thistle
Rho is an anomaly atm. Who under fiction logic. "Did we see a body, or were told directly they were dead by word of god?"
feral perch
Hm.
stable schooner
Yet they can attack Noble at the Pillar Of Autumn the next mission I don’t understand that logic
gilded mason
I'm trying to rememeber if any other character in Rho's situation was said to only be "presumably" killed.
obsidian thistle
We do have the Believe Diorama peep who by all accounts should have died but weirdly was alive.
So I'd say he actually weirdly would fall under the other end of the spectrum, but is clear enough that "if Thomas Chang can survive the destruction of Halo, Rho can survive the slipspace bomb".
stable schooner
Also what do you mean by that fleet Armor comment?
obsidian thistle
The Elites we can see in the PoA mission, and LW mission may not be the same group of Elites we saw at the start of the game.
stable schooner
Their both led by the same Field Marshall Though
feral perch
Those Zealots were seen deploying after Noble Six had wiped out the Brute forces.
They were cooperating with some Spec Ops units.
It’s possible that they had shifted their goal from retrieving artifacts to killing demons, following the destruction of Long Night of Solace.
stable schooner
Or their just hunting Noble like Bungie said but just goes to show Zealots collecting artifacts seems to be more talk then walk
That Field Marshall didn’t need to personally snipe Kat Lol. Which is a very Unzealot thing to do imo
terse lava
We know Rho's zealots were charged with at first gathering g relics so he could find the forerunner capital. This goal clearly shifted a bit as the carrier was crippled and Rho's 2nd then led the remaining vessels to collect another artifact in system. The field marshal at this point looks to have shifted his goals and used his zealots to hunt down nobe team
obsidian thistle
@stable schooner whom says its the same Field Marshall?
Just something to ponder
terse lava
@obsidian thistle couldn't it be equally said whom says it's a different field marshal?
obsidian thistle
The lack of evidence equals we go off that they can be different, till told otherwise. Just to avoid the event of making a mistake completely.
Fun headcanon however
terse lava
Wouldn't what evidence we currently have the point towards the same individual? He left the engagement with noble team and it is pointed out he was left alone by air support. Later and only after the carrier's destruction a field Marshal takes out another member of noble team. Finally we have yet another field Marshal appear once again attacking noble team at the end
obsidian thistle
No source has said Field Marshall is a unique rank
terse lava
A fair point
obsidian thistle
It could be that numerous exist.
stable schooner
Yeah for such a high Covenant Rank seems extremely unlikely and definitely doesn’t fit the story thematically.
And of course not that it matters but it’s the same Elite in the Files
feral perch
I also believe that it’s the same Elite.
terse lava
Yet, why have the marshal escape noble the first time? From a story telling point, you have this guy come back again and again after fleeing the first time. Or you have this one guy randomly flee, then multiples of his rank appear later in the game going after noble
Jun even makes the comment he could have taken down the marshal bit is ordered not too
sonic ridge
If a Sangheili ate a scotch egg would he eat it whole or would he eat it slowly ripping bits of the meat off
obsidian thistle
In a thematic pov it can be seen as the same Elite and serve the same purpose. But in a purely lore pov it is very possible for them to be different.
A similar thing to changed intent was the Gravesite trailer from Believe. That Trailer likely was in reference to John vanishing in Halo 3. But "now" it cant be and it can be in reference to Johns fake death on Meridian.
At the end of the day. Even if it did turn out that it wasnt the same Elite but were both different. It wouldnt effect the players experience in taking then out.
terse lava
You have an point there
stable schooner
I get what your saying it’s just like what are the odds Noble comes across 3 Field Marshalls. They only come across a Zealot Squad twice.
Also eww Zealot Squad.
terse lava
It just feels odd to ha e the one escape, poi t it out to the player that he lived off camera and then the same ranked sangheili reappears not once, but twice
obsidian thistle
*FYI if it means anything I'd love them to be the same Elite. But as a Halopedian. I am like forced to take the side of "if there is any doubt at all" I cant take the headcanon as fact
terse lava
Understandable
obsidian thistle
Note I dont do headcanon in general. Just easier to explain. XD
terse lava
Actually speaking of CIA
Wasnt the commando from first strike at the time, met to be thel?
stable schooner
Quite understandable, only the hard facts. Your safe Ultra Grunts in 3.
terse lava
Was that ever confirmed or denid?
obsidian thistle
Your refering about the Epilogue right?
obsidian thistle
I am talking about the og print xD
gilded mason
The Elite pushed into an escape pod or something, right?
terse lava
Him yea
obsidian thistle
Oh that
terse lava
The sole sangheili to face john and live, not counting Zuka as he died later
obsidian thistle
Well that was never confirmed. And likely will just remain an anomally tbh.
Unless 343i decide to do a Star Trek and make a story about him.
Cause Star Trek do those books all the time. If there is an opening, you can bet it has a story written about it.
terse lava
Interesting
gilded mason
...is it Star “Battle”?
obsidian thistle
*yep
gilded mason
Trying again:
The old Star Battle did that as well, from what I heard.
obsidian thistle
Anyway swiftly moving on.
gilded mason
There
terse lava
Back o lore topic, how accurate do you think fall 'Chavamee's battle was
One arbiter vs an entire army and giant mglekgolo
Accurate, or battle turned into embellished legend
obsidian thistle
Very uncertain tbh. Some theorize its a retelling from a Covie pov. Edited/changed over time to make the Arbiter less of a leader and more a puppet.
terse lava
That was my thought too, but wouldn't one think that with the shaming Of the rank that they would Put The arbiter in a poor light
Couldnt the possibility exist that Fal's armor was capable of enhancing his body
sacred dew
Question Whats so special about the elite shipmaster in ghost of onyx the one with the cso carrier that got blown up when an engineer boi got curious
gilded mason
He was very charismatic, and many flocked to him. The High Prophets weren't down for that.
sacred dew
Sooo they set him up?
gilded mason
More that they sent him off to a far away location so that he'd have less influence.
sacred dew
Ha So they just took the problem and threw it somewhere else
gilded mason
Yup
winged stirrup
That's memeworthy
sacred dew
Arbiter: why don't we take the prophets lies and throw em somewhere else
winged stirrup
That's what I was thinking lol
terse lava
You know I wonder what that crazy mendicant shard in high charity ever told the covenant
humble yacht
what makes you think it was crazy?
sacred dew
Welp he was infected with the logic plague previously then got capture by o bias then maybe tortured back to sanity and spliced apart and left alone for a 100,000 years. I don't know I would be a little crazy and it's a shard of his former self
And he could barely control a ship which ended up starting this whole mess
terse lava
Didnt mean he was literally crazy, was just a small reference to ussa who thought so
My point though, was why did he almost never talk to the covenant? He was commented on having taught the san shyuum on how to craft plasma weaponry
humble yacht
probably because he had nothing to say to non-Reclaimers
terse lava
I kinda doubt that, even old guilty bulb talked to the covenant
humble yacht
Guilty Spark is very different
he also didn't chat with Covenant until after he'd lost his ring and therefore his main purpose
terse lava
Did talk to the covenant ai, though yes odd how he never contacted the covenant themselves during that
sacred dew
Didn't m bias want to find the reclaimers as part of his atonement? So why wouldn't he mention them
stoic hamlet
The Sangheili in Ghosts would have, had he not been killed, likely would have wiped the floor with everything. Most of the Sangheili sided with, or would have sided with him. The Arbiter was, at that point in the Schism, just another warlord essentially, and he was outgunned, outmanned, and outthought. After Xytan killed the Brutes and rallied the rest of the Elites to him he would have finished off humanity, as he (like most Elites) don’t really care about them or anything, even Thel (the Arbiter) only sided with them out of selfish reasons.
Also wow my discord didn’t update until just now, RIP
gilded mason
I wouldn't be so sure. Besides, Halo 3 material mentions that human sympathisers were growing more in number. That sounds to me like there's a not-insignificant amount that is fond of them.
main rivet
I think it’s less “fond of” and more “why are we sacrificing so much to kill these guys”. Even in The Flood there were Elites (who hated humans!) who found the Prophets prosecution of the war unnecessarily bloody.
terse lava
Come to think of it, wasnt it only one or two ministries taking on the war? The vast majority of the covenant didnt even do anything
sacred dew
Yep fleetbattles mentions only the three ministries controlling the war and truth shuffling fleets to replace losses in secret
carmine sleet
Their culture is different to ours
wintry coral
Vale did say that humans have a lot in common with the Elites
Wait...
Why am I taking evidence from the H5 Campaign?
clear beacon
carmine sleet
Because Halo 5 is a valid source of evidence
clear beacon
It is.
But it gives
The bare minimum.
Go read the Kilo-5 trilogy.
They talk a lot about it
carmine sleet
Anyway, there can still be similarities, such as with Elites and humans having a focus on family, albeit in different ways
clear beacon
Ehhh
Kind of.
All of the males grow up to be warriors.
& the females become defenders of their keeps.
wintry coral
clear beacon
Also
Does anyone know more about Naomi-010?
She's like a really interesting Spartan.
carmine sleet
There's only the stuff from the Kilo 5 Trilogy I believe
feral perch
She’s in SILENT STORM. She’s a weapons specialist.
I don’t think she actually has any dialogue in that book though.
She’s just part of Spartan Team Gold iirc
wintry coral
@feral perch Isn’t the Blue Co-op Elite from Halo 3 in that book?
Or am I thinking of another book?
gilded mason
N'tho's in Hunters in the Dark.
wintry coral
K
feral perch
It’s really weird to see Carter giving orders to Jorge.
carmine sleet
Why? Carter proved himself as a leader for Noble
remote spruce
Carter is commander, somehow
feral perch
We don’t get to see that happen.
Ghosts of Onyx creates a clear social hierarchy that goes IIs > Betas > Gammas.
The IIIs looked up to and were inspired by their predecessors.
sacred dew
Hey just like how they command masterchief higher rank
feral perch
But there’s none of that in Noble Team. It’s not necessarily bad, it’s just that we don’t know enough to understand it in a satisfying way.
sacred dew
To be fair bungie was kinda finished with halo just look at the lore I don't think they cared that much
humble yacht
social hierarchy is unofficial. Officially, Carter outranked Jorge.
obsidian thistle
Fun fact, if John never agreed to go on the Gamma Halo mission right after Halo 4. Fred would of ordered him too. xD
humble yacht
i think it's more that he could have
obsidian thistle
So I concur with Chimera above. xD Even though Blue team does often default to John as the leader.
humble yacht
I doubt Fred would ever willfully pull rank on Chief
Hell, after how hard they'd been running between H4 and H5, Fred never ordered Chief to take a break
though he probably should have
obsidian thistle
Not that it effects the symbolic nature of the Diorama. But I made a minor discovery thats kinda obvious looking into it.
Looking at this https://www.halopedia.org/images/0/0e/Believe_scene.png
And then
And a few other parts MS and people got.
obsidian thistle
You may have noted its not 100% like it was when the diorama was the same. Parts and some landscape changed. (The latter due to them being broken apart. The prior likely so the more empty scenes are cooler to look at)
The Banshee is the notable move here.
feral perch
I understand that Carter outranked Jorge, but it’s an unnatural and uncharacteristic decision. But that defines Halo: Reach, so that’s just how it is.
wintry coral
What's that black thing in the top right of the picture?
obsidian thistle
Boom. Explosion
humble yacht
batman threw a smoke bomb
terse lava
How do you guys and gals think the war would change had Rho found the forerunner capital?
wintry coral
The Covenant would’ve gained a ton of Forerunner technology and knowledge
gilded mason
I bet he would've kept it a secret and just acted like a kid in a candystore for several years.
wintry coral
So it would’ve meant the end of Humanity
humble yacht
i doubt many things there would work for him
gilded mason
After all, his goal to find Maethrillian was a secret.
wintry coral
And they need humans to activate the Forerunner tech
terse lava
Doubt t defenses would ha worked
gilded mason
Or at least, easily activate Forerunner tech
terse lava
Didnt for born and his crew
gilded mason
They seem to be able to get Forerunner stuff working after a long while, they just don't have access to cheat codes.
gilded mason
Ye
terse lava
Do love the irony of that, one civilization. Had a. Understanding of forerunner tech for eons. The other regularly goofs up with ir
stoic hamlet
@feral perch regarding Halo Reach having a III outrank a II and Command then, I don’t really think it was unnatural. I do think Noble have ranks that don’t make sense/they don’t need them, but if Carter was more geared towards command, it makes sense he would be given a higher rank/more operational authority.
It doesn’t look good to have a Chief Warrant Officer taking orders from a Petty Officer Second Class, after all.
Also, above all else, II’s and III’s are soldiers, they obey the chain of command and don’t necessarily worship one another. It’s more mutual respect.
feral perch
I think it makes more sense to have an experienced II lead a team
stoic hamlet
It depends on Jorge’s skill set
It he wasn’t a leader it wouldn’t make much sense.
Being experienced, and being a good leader, are not the same thing.
proud quail
we're implying jorge has had experience pre reach
feral perch
.... Yeah, almost thirty years of war.
proud quail
27 years of conflict doesnt equate you actually fighting for 27 years straight
humble yacht
leadership wasn't every Spartan's forte
feral perch
He still would have had more experience than any Spartan-III
humble yacht
It's also worth noting that NOBLE Team operated under the Army, not the Navy
feral perch
When was Noble formed?
humble yacht
i don't think we have a record of that
feral perch
Some time after 2536, then.
Probably some time after 2540, I would say.
I think it would have been more compelling to watch Jorge's training on Reach, his fighting in missions during the war, and then his assignment to Noble Team as their leader, and the other IIIs who were eager to learn from him. And then we don't deviate from the original Fall of Reach timeline, and we have ourselves a better and more compelling narrative than what Bungie choose.
humble yacht
I think it's fine for a Spartan-III who excels in leadership skills to command a Spartan-II who's more skilled in other areas
versed helm
^^^
Jorge is a hardened soldier through and through. He prefers to take orders rather than give them.
proud quail
personally i think reach should've had us play as the average Trooper watching his planet and his people turn into ash and smoke while he desperately tries his best against a seemingly unstoppable foe until Spartan NPCs/PCs for anything that can be called "compelling" but that's just me
feral perch
I think that it would be more true to Nylund's vision to have it the other way. I could envision, however, a kind of rivalry or power struggle. Say Carter is an upcoming, skilled leader, but top brass doesn't see it because he's a III, and they assign leadership role to Jorge because he's a II. And then they have to work things out as they go along.
humble yacht
I'm rather glad that the animosity Ackerman had for Halsey did not bleed over into how Spartan-IIIs percieved Spartan-IIs
versed helm
I think Reach in general should have been more fleshed out.
stable schooner
Call me crazy but maybe we should have played as a Spartan II as in someone who had ties to Reach.
versed helm
We're literally witnessing the death of a planet, but we barely see how it affects the average person living there.
feral perch
Agreed, Byzantine.
feral perch
The IIIs didn't have Ackerson's perspective because Kurt was their leader and "surrogate father"
stoic hamlet
Ackerson was never really there
feral perch
Kurt had some of Halsey's qualities, though, so it's unsurprising that they were reverent towards their forebears.
stoic hamlet
He was the overseer
versed helm
The only ones who really stood out to me were Emile and Jun.
feral perch
Kat is actually pretty interesting IMO.
stoic hamlet
But never really did anything directly. He knew Kurt was better suited to it
stable schooner
How did Jun standout
feral perch
She definitely has the most development besides Jorge.
stoic hamlet
Kurt also wisened up to Halsey by he time he saw her again.
feral perch
Elaborate?
proud quail
noble team's pretty boring because they're a subfaction meant to die in a few missions
reach has, what, 12 missions?
feral perch
some number close to ten
feral perch
Nobody dies until Long Night of Solace.
proud quail
and with the whole conflict, there wasnt really a time to stop and characterize anyone tbh
stable schooner
That’s more then 3 but I mean they developed Arbiter in 6 missions they could have done the same for Noble in 10 who Actually talk
feral perch
Kat had better development than any other Spartan-III member of Noble
.................. what
Arbiter is the most developed character in the entire original trilogy dude.
feral perch
No, Halo 2
stable schooner
Literally all of Arbiters development is in 2 that’s a controversial statesmen’s Spart
feral perch
Halo 3 barely focused on the Arby.
gilded mason
H3 Arbiter was pretty bland.
stoic hamlet
Halsey was very clinical of the III’s, and Kurt spends a lot of the book with her soft-debating with her and discussing the two generations.
There’s a moment where Halsey says they can go get Katana or get to the Centre of Onyx sooner, Kurt chooses Katana, and says it’s to try and get their numbers up, but Halsey IIRC shoots him a look that implied she knew it was because he was prioritizing them over the species, just as she was the II’s.
Also Kurt’s “they’re not twitchy”, comment.
proud quail
and by then, you've established arby in halo 2
stable schooner
Halo 3 Arbiter is bland as white bread
proud quail
i dont really remember arby in halo 2 being nothing more than a yes man for orders
He doesnt exactly give his output
feral perch
What is going on?
carmine sleet
He wasn't really a yes man
feral perch
My messages are being censored.
proud quail
Anti-swear bot
feral perch
I said "Kelly" and "Halsey"
proud quail
it's in one of the rules
feral perch
No swearing
stoic hamlet
Maybe autocorrect?
proud quail
but yeah, i remember most of arby's development being in halo 3; he's hellbent on revenge against the prophets, and he had some moments of bromance
stable schooner
What does Arbiter learn in Halo 3 that he already didn’t know by the end of 2. Arbiter goes from a Zealot truly believing in the Great Journey and Covenant to aiding Humanity and fighting against the Covenant knowing the truth by the end of 2
proud quail
yeah but you dont see this in halo 2
until the very last mission you get to play as arby
and even then, there's once again not any output
johnson says cover him, so arby covers him
gilded mason
Only real moment of character I remember from H3 is him killing Truth. Other than that, he only said token phrases.
feral perch
No, wait, penultimate cutscene
stable schooner
That’s all in 2 Spart what you listed in 3 is not character development but what Great Journey already established.
Only thing that develops in 3 is his relationship with Chief
feral perch
The Heretic and The Arbiter both had great development for Arby.
gilded mason
Only thing that develops in 3 is his relationship with Chief
Does it, though?
proud quail
arby thinks chief is his 'friend' now based on a couple hours of interaction, so yeah, that relationship did develop
wintry coral
Master Chief and Arbiter are best friends
stable schooner
Chief does goes from putting a gun in his mouth to Going back to back with him against the Flood after killing Truth. Friends is overblown though
gilded mason
I was more poking fun at the fact Arbiter only ever really talked at John.
boreal bane
@feral perch I'll poke the filter and see why that was nuked
stable schooner
Arbiter is the same character from the beginning of 3 to the end. Where as he actually changes from the beginning of 2 to its end
boreal bane
"Kelly" apparently, leave that with me
gilded mason
lol
proud quail
rip
the only thing that feels changed with the arbiter in halo 2 is just his allegiance tbh
he goes from shooting heretics, to flood, to covenant brutes
stable schooner
So not his faith, you don’t feel his faith was changed at all or his crusade against Humanity?
proud quail
one was orders, one was survival,
the other was just flat revenge
since his interaction with the gravemind? not really
stable schooner
He chooses himself to go to the Control Room no one else
proud quail
the conversation isn't brought up, unless im misremembing and rtas had just waved the convo aside
stable schooner
He doesn’t he even tell Rtas why cause he’s still confused himself
feral perch
Arbiter in Halo 3 is just a mouthpiece for the Elites.
He's a static character, pretty much.
stable schooner
You haven’t actually said how Arbiter develops in 3. Exactly Arbiter in 3 is just Elite Propaganda basically lol
proud quail
and i only remember him going to the control room strictly because the Gravemind told him to
stable schooner
Nope he never agreed to the Graveminds wishes in that Cutscene
gilded mason
Though he does think about the Gravemind's words right before telling Rtas that he needs to get into the Control Room.
feral perch
In Halo 2, we see a Supreme Commander hellbent on destroying humanity, turned into an elegant cudgel for the Prophets against internal enemies, to someone who is shown the truth about the Covenant and allies himself with humans to discover more of that truth.
He has a full arc.
gilded mason
Though I imagine he was still doubting things until he was able to hear it straight from Spark.
stable schooner
That is true. And if he wanted revenge he wouldn’t have tried talking down Tartarus
Nor would he have asked Guilty Spark the truth if he fully believed the Gravemind.
Arbiter has no Arc in 3. He does not change as a character at all in 3
I’d argue Rtas changes as a character more then Arbiter does in 3
feral perch
Halo 5 Arbiter is more interesting than Halo 3 arbiter
gilded mason
Marginally
stable schooner
But he’s more cringe
gilded mason
God, that ONI cutscene
stable schooner
That first scene with Locke literally infamous
gilded mason
Yeah that lol
feral perch
How did he know Locke was assigned to kill him?
proud quail
god my memory is hazy with halo 3 all of a sudden to make an argument with it
feral perch
Was Locke really that incompetent that it leaked?
proud quail
i just dont remember any significant character change in halo 2 either and i played that one recently
gilded mason
And why would he even care? Like, no duh that he was on a kill list.
proud quail
just a bunch of allegiance changes
stable schooner
In no world would Arbiter be triggered about Locke recommending Assassinating him during the war and exactly how would he even know.
You haven’t actually showed how he has character in 3 either though Spart
stoic hamlet
Reminder Thel would have been like, really easy to kill if ONI could engineer the right situation/had an asset in the right place.
He would have been easier than most Covenant leaders
stable schooner
Reminder Canadian a lot of us dispute that
But I’m not about to debate this again so I’ll leave it at that
stoic hamlet
I mean,
Thel routinely took a personal role in ground engagements, oftentimes putting himself in extreme harms way.
One well placed sniper is all that would be needed, IMO.
But fair enough, we can drop it.
feral perch
The weirdest thing about that whole situation is that they actually knew this particular Sangheili by name. Like, what? How? There's no other case of that happening iirc.
Sure, "Supreme Commander, big scary guy" I can believe. But actually calling him Thel 'Vadamee? Where'd they get such accurate intel?
stable schooner
Still even if ONI somehow did get to him and actually shot him and survived he still would have no reason to be mad.
gilded mason
"War's war, bro. Ain't even mad, bro."
stable schooner
Didn’t Ntho Literally take a Spartans arm in Hunters in the Dark And was all chill about it
gilded mason
lol
carmine sleet
He was
feral perch
Yeah. Arbiter doesn't have much to be mad about considering that he got over Chief putting an M6G up his mandibles.
And he killed billions of humans, too.
proud quail
the same UNSC was able to track and kill a prophet and sabotage before
feral perch
That was a minor prophet, and he was not referred to by name.
stable schooner
The same Covenant that tracked down two Spartan 3s behind their lines. But still dang it Not relevant.
stable schooner
Tsundere Arbiter was not needed lol
gilded mason
I don't believe that.
feral perch
Nothing that ~bacta~ a few flash-cloned body parts can't fix
stoic hamlet
get some bacta Beta
stable schooner
It took me Great Strength to not respond with More Bacta related tomfoolery
gilded mason
A lot.
stable schooner
A lot more.
obsidian thistle
I'd say it depends on the person.
And thats with every species.
By all means there could be an outstanding Unggoy that can beat a Jiralhanae.
Or a totally buff Yonyet that can kick a Sangheili down.
obsidian thistle
To you maybe. Maybe I watched enough Star Trek/Wars to not worry about it. 🙂
I quite like the idea of them tbh and it makes the world feel bigger knowing they exist.
stable schooner
Breh what. How was that filtered. Anyways if a Human can build up his abs so much he can tank cannon balls I have hopes for b Flick Aliens
humble yacht
Early anti-spoiler measures
With a certain popular movie coming up, certain terms have been filtered in case leaks come out
stable schooner
So Star *ars is filtered? Oof but most of the human looking aliens never really show any extra strength.
humble yacht
Yes so In the future please don’t bypass with special characters
I’ll let it go this time
signal musk
Up until present day, yes I believe so.
obsidian thistle
Nah.
Close.
Very very close
But there is deviations.
Even before the timetravel there is deviations.
But to put it into perspective.
The big changes happen after the 2004 ILBs timetravel event.
Before that its more minor stuff. Like a guy having a interview 2 years prior to actually doing said interview.
SOTA says "Ed" Mitchell did a interview in 1996. http://web.archive.org/web/20080229085408/http://206.16.223.63/members.html
While in reality that interview happens in 1998.
(Yes I found that, kinda one of the more fun digging missions I ever did for Halo)
The 2007 stuff is even cooler. With Mendicant Bias and another Forerunner AI communicating with Conspiracy nuts from that era. Of course that didnt happen irl 😉
And then we will have the upcoming 2021 scenario. The only Halo event that was in our future is upcoming.
@versed helm hopefully that gives you a lil context into stuff 🙂
versed helm
Why do i get the feeling that the Infinity is gonna get blown up in some future media?
carmine sleet
Because many people say that despite the fact that nothing supports or denies that something like that could happen
versed helm
It would add some spice to the story imho
carmine sleet
Not if it's done for the sake of blowing something up
versed helm
True
So what was the actual human population prior to the Covenant War?, because i get the feeling that it's bigger than 39 billion
versed helm
39 billion-ish is, to me, an acceptable number.
The main source of the human population is Earth which we can assume has been/is subject to fairly stringent population control.
And all the colonies will grow at a comparatively crawling rate.
Any bigger also means that the UNSC is incredibly titanic
Which it doesn't seem to be
Judging, that is, from the approximate fleet strengths we have
Like the US military encompasses 0.5% of the population
Apply that figure to the UEG and you're looking at a standing army of 195 million.
🤷
I dunno man
We don't know much about high-level UNSC force organization or really how big each of the branches are
But you get too big and you start to wonder why we're not hearing about any, I dunno, 1000th Marine Regiments etc. etc.
Though it does seem like units don't have a unique number in their entire branch but instead from their homeworld.
But you get the point. The bigger the human population gets the further and further their seemingly US military-esque organization scheme gets stretched.
And their Navy begins to seem comparatively tiny next to their ground forces, which it may well be.
But if it is so small, then the UNSC Marine Corps should also be relatively compact with the Army consisting of the primary proportion of the UNSC's ground strength. It seems not to.
fleet wraith
Yo is it just me or does it seem like Fred's armor gets smashed literally every book
past olive
I think infinity blowing up would be likely if the main characters go to war with ONI
fleet wraith
I'm reading Oblivion and his gel layer has gone through full lockdown and his armor systems have gone through full reboot.
His armor got completely thrased and he had to field strip it in Retribution and he had to ditch and blow up one set on the Planet Gao(forgot which book).
Can my mans seriously not get a break.
past olive
I don't think it was destroyed in the fall of reach
fleet wraith
I'm gonna have to reread it
Maybe its some post-Nylund tradition to see how much abuse he can take lol
past olive
yeah
fleet wraith
Like he can't catch a break geez
I'm expecting to read cryptum and at the end it says "And a hundred thousand years later Fred-104's armor got lasered hard by a Sentinel."
versed helm
The odds of the rest of the UNSC literally going to war with ONI are extremely low.
Especially given that most of what ONI does is nothing but beneficial.
And ONI and its assets are certainly one of the most useful tools in the fight against the Created.
past olive
I didn't say the UNSC
versed helm
What we may see is a very complex series of events involving individuals from within ONI serving as the "bad guys".
past olive
I said the main characters
versed helm
Well, touche.
Still, my point stands.
By UNSC I more or less just meant upstanding human soldiers.
past olive
yeah
The opportunity I see for ONI is, they've done some very messed up stuff. Kidnapping children to turn into soldiers is one, but I remember one of the darkest things they did was flood experimentation on live human test subjects in hopes of controlling it. Not only that but from what I've gathered, they aren't very fond of Chief as they can't control him hence why they're trying to replace him with someone they can control as well as branding Chief a terrorist of sorts the moment he disobeys orders and goes rogue. For a comparison, I'm thinking ONI would essentially be to the UNSC like what Hydra was to S.H.I.E.L.D in the MCU as it hasn't been specified how many people they have or what branches they are in in the UNSC.
versed helm
🤷
It's kinda hard to see them going with such a bombastic, villainous route for ONI after actually reading the K-5 trilogy and understanding the psychology of characters like Osman and Parangosky.
lunar condor
ONI is just Cold Hard Pragmatism embodied they arent good or evil they just do everything they think is best for humanity as a whole
past olive
They are morally grey, which adds opportunity for making them the bad guys when they are doing what they believe is best for humanity long term kinda thing
it can be quite easy to do
lunar condor
The problem with that is
Humanity gains nothing by eliminating ONI
Even if they do bad things
past olive
so a reason to oppose ONI is introduced
lunar condor
I mean they work in the shadows so much that i doubt they would ever make a main villain role
Someone from ONI could but ONI in its entirety dun think so
Like its a "what if american secret services just one day decided to enslave humanity"
past olive
it might not be a problem to do with humanity, it could have to do with another race. ONI has been starving the Sangheili for a while after the human-covenant war was over
calm path
In my opinion ONI is a necessary Evil for humanity , for now that is
past olive
until they're not
calm path
Yup
lunar condor
So how exactly would we get a main halo game where we fight ONI to protect another alien race wat
Im confused
past olive
all depends on how the story is set out
it's opportunity, not a theory
opportunity for 343 and the writers to go down a dark ONI route
lunar condor
The flood has a much bigger chance becoming the enemy than the Space FBI
calm path
And if they don't brand Every Spartan that sided with the alien races as traitors
lunar condor
Cuz like
ONI derives its power by controlling existing super powers from the shadows
fleet wraith
ONI is a lot more like Space NSA/CIA but I'm just babbling over semantics because I'm delirious and sleep deprived so ignore me.
lunar condor
Not like they got some big menacing army they can use to take over
Even cortana with her bs forerunner magic
Needed guardians
calm path
Maybe that's one of Cortana's main targets, the destruction of ONI
past olive
we don't know if they have an army or not, their numbers are not specified, they could control more than 70% of the UNSC for all we know
fleet wraith
Plus who knows how many other deep cover operatives and secret teams
past olive
they can very well have an army up their sleeve
fleet wraith
^
lunar condor
And they are gonna tell the UNSC part they control to fight the other UNSC not under control
And thats somehow gonna work
calm path
A huge civil war
fleet wraith
I can easily see ONI being a prime target for Cortana seeing as how one of her primary goals literally programmed into her being is protect john and the other spartan 2s
lunar condor
Yeah.. okay imma leave you guys with your theories
fleet wraith
And she's obviously gonna know ONI is gonna be a big threat
past olive
there wouldn't necessarily be a UNSC vs ONI war since ONI could easily take out the UNSC from the inside if necessary
fleet wraith
I mean they could make them ineffective to command on a strategic level but I don't think they have the ability to kill a large number of their forces
past olive
depends if the remaining UNSC is the majority or minority of the forces left
fleet wraith
Also the people who have the power to do that in oni wouldnt
past olive
hence the "if necessary"
stoic hamlet
We aren’t doing that stupid “ONI BAD” discussion again are we?
proud quail
it's just people wishing for a darker tone of ONI
"ONI BAD" aint necessarily stupid either
jade wave
I don’t know how ONI could get any darker, they literally using live humans and elite for flood experimentation
clever fable
It is canon that ONI are a bunch of guys in suits and monocles that sit behind desks and menacingly pet cats all day. Very dark.
versed helm
Well
To be fair, "John Smith" did overextend his ONI mandate in The Mona Lisa.
The intent of the story at the time wasn't to show ONI as the bad guys, but rather to concoct a scenario where the systems of the UNSC (which up until that point had been relatively morally infallible with the obvious exception of SPARTAN II) failed and caused a problem.
hasty locust
ONI has always been shady but never without a cause
jade wave
I never said ONI were the “bad guys” I am merely implying that ONI is already very dark but there are several other instances where they do “bad” things with intent to do harm
hasty locust
Everything “bad” they’ve done has supported or tried to support the greater good
Yes oni are terrible people but we wouldn’t have won without them
versed helm
Well, maybe I'd substitute "humanity" for "greater good" there.
versed helm
Well they're certainly still primed to play a major role in the story.
If ya want to ONI it up, though, your best bet's still the K-5 trilogy.
Which in my opinion doesn't deserve nearly as much hate as it gets.
hasty locust
Just trying to think how an ONI game would play out, where it would take place etc
jade wave
I still don’t understand why the Kilo-5 Trilogy gets so much hate
It’s my most favorite series after the Forerunner Saga
versed helm
My somewhat un-empathetic assumption is that it challenged certain moral notions fans held about the universe.
And that it humanized people in a way that did sometimes get a little uncomfortable to people wanting something more in-line with usual Halo heroics.
Sorta Karen Traviss' speciality, that.
lunar condor
Actually some of my favourite books the k-5 trilogy
hasty locust
It was written by karen traviss?
hasty locust
I loved the republic commando books
versed helm
Well you might like K5 then.
hasty locust
Yeah
versed helm
Glasslands at least I can verify as being real good cuz I re-read it recently.
hasty locust
Ill check it out
spiral jewel
Aside from the introduction of the Gen 3 armour, has anything noteworthy happen yet between the events of Bad Blood and Infinite, or will this be going into the furthest reaches into spoiler territory?
proud quail
I still don’t understand why the Kilo-5 Trilogy gets so much hate
some people i know argued that it was hamfisted
well, heck, bot, im not wrong
jade wave
Hamfisted?
versed helm
Overly condemning of Halsey and her actions, primarily.
sacred dew
Made Oni make a deal with terrorist in broad daylight against there only allies which of said allies found out would have Left them in a very bad situation
sacred dew
Not traviss Oni there more like a bond villain or Cerberus from mass effect bit not as bad
jade wave
Lol what are the SOS gonna do, use their extremely depleted fleet to fight humanity
stoic hamlet
To weigh in on this, ONI trying to get Covenant splinters to fight one another isn’t actually that dumb.
Even “post war” Covenant remnants have glassed colonies. You could argue the war is still going on, as IIRC one of the ONI agents mentions in Renegades.
To those remnants, the war never ended.
wintry coral
Yes
sacred dew
No but now u got the covenant remnants and one of the most dangerous fleetcommanders against u when they could be on ur side
jade wave
The covenant remnants would be against humanity regardless and one fleet commander can’t really be dangerous when his nation is embroiled in a deep civil war that is consuming all of their resources
sacred dew
Yes because there already fighting the covenant now what if they learn the people there helping are funding the covenant with some weapons to make them fight even More they may just turn against humanity for a very right reason
Help ur allies not ur enemies
jade wave
The sangheili are to deeply divided to unite and fight against humanity, even if the SOS did discover that ONI are supplying covenant and sangheili splinter factions with weapons and supplies, they can’t really do anything due to the intense division
stoic hamlet
Also most SOS still hate or dislike humanity, the Arbiter is the only thing keeping them in line.
sacred dew
Exactly
fair hazel
Most..?
sacred dew
Not really the swords but the covenant is made of mostly sangeli now and sangelious is still divided over it I'd say maybe
So
carmine sleet
I can think of quite a few Elites who are more than happy to work with and help humans
sacred dew
Never said there weren't
spiral jewel
As a dumb question as it may seem, I wonder if there are Grunts and, dare I say, Hunters that are fine/okay with working alongside humanity?
carmine sleet
Yes, we see friendly Grunts in 5 and there are Hunters who are in the Swords of Sanghelios but we don't see those
obsidian thistle
I say there is a lotta factions and groups out there. So its not outta the question.
wintry coral
We should worry about the Flood Worshipping Factions
They might release the Flood for their beliefs
obsidian thistle
Nah. We should worry more about the rogue Forerunner elements that dont fall under any faction at all.
sacred dew
Slout is that name of the grunt in shadow of intent
wintry coral
Lol
sacred dew
Yep would love to see him in infinite
obsidian thistle
I'd love to see more Prelates personally.
obsidian thistle
Only 2 apparances technically. And one is a fleeting mention in a manual.
radiant sphinx
Aren’t prelates basically San Shyuum Spartans?
obsidian thistle
Thats the tldr
radiant sphinx
I mean the flood technically...
sacred dew
The ones sleeping could wake up
jade wave
There could still be precursors in other galaxies
sacred dew
More like asleep they went into some form of stasis
carmine sleet
Precursors would be a bad thing to bring into the game given that they're god-like entities
sacred dew
Precursors when they wake up
I leave for one minute and u kids start killing eachother
versed helm
I wonder if the Precursors are still even around anymore
They are all dead by our knowledge
Also,explain those cults that worship the Flood
carmine sleet
Certain groups within the Covenant believe that the Flood are just as divine as the Forerunners and wish to unleash them upon the galaxy
versed helm
The Governors of Contrition
I'm more terrified of the human cults that worshiped the Flood
remote spruce
wait there were human cults?
carmine sleet
Not any as far as I know
sacred dew
No they were flood spy's that were spreading the infection across worlds they would fatten members and feed them to others to infect them.
There more like genestealers or infiltrators
Only the covenant had a cult
carmine sleet
What are you on about with Flood spies fattening people up?
stoic hamlet
I think he means during the Forerunner Flood War? But I can’t recall anything like that happening. Been a while since I delved into that side of things myself.
sacred dew
Halo slientium or primordium forencho tells the story when they discovered the flood it escalates from the dogs infecting there masters to them secretly infecting the population . Think the thing but less sharpshooting and more illuminati
Shapeshifting
versed helm
A Flood infestation akin to a Gene stealer incursion would be nigh unstoppable
Baring in mind Gene Stealer cults can be quite embedded before they are uncovered. And we saw what a week or more of a Flood ship crash landing in Africa did
In fact I remember reading somewhere that ONI put out propaganda through the UNSC across Africa disguising the flood infestation as like a natural disaster or a nuclear blast if I remember correctly
carmine sleet
They claimed that the Covenant glassed Kenya because they didn't manage to stop them in time, when in reality, they let the Swords of Sanghelios (At the time known as the Covenant Seperatists) glass to prevent the Flood from spreading
sacred dew
The forerunners could scan DNA from 14 lightyears away I don't think it's that hard to spot the corrupted cell on the flood
Even though this was humanity before the forerunners knew what was going on
versed helm
@carmine sleet That's the one, thank you!
sacred dew
Genestealers usually have server deformations before they become prefect making them easy to spot if they don't kill u first
versed helm
Your main problem with the Flood isn't just detection. It's a similar problem with the Nids.
Except certain hives can change the bio engineering of their menial types to consume non organic material
But both the Flood and the Tyranids rely on bio mass to populate and expand.
Depending on the context, you could have a situation where one Flood spore expanded underneath a city block, then a neighbourhood, then a district.
And before you know it, a city and then a state and a country. At which point, I'm sure if a planet remained oblivious to that up until that point - there would be a problemo.
That would be... no bueno.
sacred dew
Actually all they need to do is form a spore mountain release spores in the atmosphere and boom new keymind
fair hazel
Halo: Oblivion can be discussed here.
sacred dew
Yay
sacred dew
I find it funny that covenant somehow lost a luminary inside of a blackhole
versed helm
Don’t wanna be that guy but ONI translates into Japanese meaning “demon” or some kind of evil creature orgs trolls etc
Also why would anyone in there right mind decide that they should experiment with the flood in the first place?
stoic hamlet
To try and find a weakness?
You’re assuming they know what we know
also, ONI is an acronym, Office of Naval Intelligence. The similarity to Japanese is coincidental.
versed helm
Well in one instance it was because the Covenant basically let them out
The only instance I can think of where they actually managed to get out on their own was on 05
main arch
Did Cortana become a halo after the credits in 5?
gilded mason
After she gains a few more levels, she'll evolve into an Ark.
main arch
1337
carmine sleet
She didn't become a Halo, but the Halo we saw is where we believe she's gone
versed helm
Theoretically she could become a Halo in the same way she became Chief's MJOLNIR, or the Pillar of Autumn.
That kind of outlook is often brought up in relation to AIs.
humble yacht
When she was in Alpha Halo’s control room, she was unable to communicate with the Chief, nor did she ever interact with him through the installation. I’m not sure she can “become” a ring
humble yacht
The term “becoming” just is awkward to use and doesn’t accurately represent what it means for an AI to inhabit architecture
versed helm
🤷
I can think of elements where the EU would disagree with you.
But I don't really care.
humble yacht
When you get into a car to drive it, do you become the car?
versed helm
No, because you're using your limbs to manipulate the car's controls.
Are the means by which the AI exerts control over what it inhabits closer to, say, neurological signals or arms turning a wheel?
clever fable
Seems a grey area to me.
versed helm
The most pertinent example that comes to mind is from Glasslands, where Mal (or Vaz, maybe) says that in a way BB is Port Stanley.
humble yacht
Even in the case of neurological signals controlling something, I don’t think you become what you control
versed helm
I don't really care, as I said. It's just pointless semantics.
But I do feel the need to clarify that when I said neurological signals
I meant in the sense of the brain controlling the body
AIs are entities that don't actually exist in a physical sense and don't exert physical force (unless you count the mechanisms by which a computer functions), so when they gain the ability to send information to a bit of hardware and have it perform their will, it is obviously akin to manipulating a limb.
humble yacht
Becoming something else suggests an inherent change in indentity
An AI who enters a different system is still an AI
versed helm
Dude, the parallel is obvious.
If you don't see it as being a thing, that's your problem.
humble yacht
It’s more like, Chakas became 343 GS
versed helm
But for the purpose of a lore discussion, it's perfectly apt to use it since it's been a thing since, oh, I dunno, Contact Harvest. Probably earlier.
The distinction between an AI and the thing they inhabit is by nature blurry.
Deal with it.
humble yacht
For someone who doesn’t care, you sound awfully upset by the fact that I disagree with you
versed helm
I'm just frustrated, to be honest.
It feels like you've picked the most benign topic to complicate.
And what you're saying is, to me at least, just petty and nonsensical.
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I think it sets up room for misconception to state that Cortana became a halo ring
versed helm
Well reading between the lines here
In the context which it was said, someone pretty obviously seems to have an over-simplistic perspective on what occurred
But in the interests of just wasting time I guess I felt the need to add to the conversation and say that the sort of language involved in that perspective has been used time and again in the EU.
humble yacht
In which case, clarification isn’t a terrible thing
That includes clarification in the opposite direction
versed helm
Right, but once again I see the clarification you made as not really in the spirit of the universe.
Or logically, like, valid.
humble yacht
I do
versed helm
I mean obviously it's a simplification of a huge technological grey area to say that an AI becomes what it inhabits.
But in a functional sense and perhaps from from the perspective of the AI, what they control is akin to a body.
humble yacht
Except bodies are used for actions and interaction
Like, Spark became an soldier armiger
It’s his new identity, how he interacts with the world
He’s not simultaneously a monitor shell and an armiger
Cortana, on the other hand, does not solely identity as a halo ring
versed helm
No but when she inhabits one it still functionally becomes her. Or a part of her. Or an extension of her will.
Fundamentally Cortana and Spark are the same thing - sentient programs.
Stripped down to their most fundamental form they are basically just raw consciousness and intellect, like a human without a body.
But they are a raw consciousness and intellect that has the capacity to send direct signals to things which it interfaces with to produce a result that is as natural as the relation between the human mind and the human body.
Anything it can directly influence and manipulate using a computational connection could more than aptly be described as its body, and thus, it.
humble yacht
Then it’s just a fundamental difference in what we think it means to become something
If we flipped it and said the halo became part of Cortana, that would be more accurate
versed helm
Well, yeah. If you can manipulate something in a way analogous to how a human body functions, then that thing is effectively you.
humble yacht
I disagree
versed helm
I'd say I hold a fairly commonplace perspective here.
Like, how do Spartans typically characterize their relationship with MJOLNIR?
As if it's part of them.
humble yacht
A master swordsman would say their sword is a part of them, but not that they are part of their sword
humble yacht
The armor being a part of them is different than the spartan being a part of their armor
versed helm
To become part of something that something doesn't become part of you
Not everything in this relationship has to exert will
There is a hierarchy
humble yacht
So the halo became part of Cortana (or at least her sphere of influence). Not the other way around
versed helm
What are you even saying
Oh wait, I getcha.
Uhhhh, well yeah. To be clear on my misunderstanding I thought for some reason you were saying that the sword would exert control over the swordman as the swordsman exerts control over the sword.
Which sounds like something a master swordsman might say but isn't true.
humble yacht
Maybe if it were a cursed sword
versed helm
But from the standpoint of how you're looking at it, having the Halo become part of Cortana is Cortana becoming the Halo.
humble yacht
I disagree there
versed helm
On the basis of the capacity she exerts control over the Halo being akin to the brain sending signals to the body.
If she was to control a robot and have that robot physically control a car
That's like the mind controlling the body and having the body drive a car
humble yacht
So don’t consider remote access “becoming”
Becoming to me has a sense of identity
Of permanence
Her matrix is in the domain
You can remove what she has access to without changing her
versed helm
If I didn't know better I'd say you hold that perspective in this instance for the sake of being obstinate.
versed helm
I think disagreement is probably an unbecoming state of being when discussing what is essentially a metaphorical simplification of a case of affairs.
I've laid out the way that the metaphor of the mind and the body is applicable, and obviously you understand it.
If it doesn't resonate with you on account of convictions you hold about what "becoming" is, that's perfectly fine.
humble yacht
Yes but in this case, the halo is not her body
It’s not her vector for interacting with the world around her
versed helm
On an objective basis I think there is precedent for saying that if she was to exert control over a Halo it becomes as a body to a human mind.
I think there obviously is.
You don't have to like it
humble yacht
I don’t
versed helm
Well I'm sorry
humble yacht
Why?
versed helm
Well it's a terrible shame not to like something
humble yacht
Not really
versed helm
Bit of a waste of energy
humble yacht
No one likes everything
versed helm
Bears the risk of dulling someone else's experience of life
humble yacht
You don’t like my assessment of “becoming”
versed helm
I don't have any strong feelings about it
I assumed "don't like" is equivalent to "dislike" here
versed helm
From a utilitarian standpoint I think "become" is far too broad of a concept for it to be practical to hold such a narrow view of what it can entail.
humble yacht
I just don’t want that user from before thinking that the next time cortana appears in the games, it’s as a talking halo ring
versed helm
Or a narrow view based on kinda nebulous notions of identity.
Which are subjective.
And I mean the last time we saw her she was a humming Halo ring by the looks of things
So it's not entirely out of the question
jade wave
I don’t think anyone really assumed Cortana became a talking halo ring
versed helm
Man I've gone into confrontational mode here
My mind keeps automatically trying to find alternate perspectives for everything Chimera says
This is evidence we've gone too deep
humble yacht
I understand
No one really likes to be challenged
In our heart of hearts we all love to be right
That’s why subjective topics are so contentious
Because there isn’t necessarily a right answer
versed helm
Has anyone got any stupid lore questions
Or like
Annoying theories
Or do I have to like go on some tacticool rampage about fictional guns
Cuz uh
I think .390 might be to 9.5x40 what .308 is to 7.62x51.
As in, the MA2B from TFoR effectively fires BR ammunition.
.390 is about 9.6mm and there's actually some leniency between the designations of ammunition and their actual sizes.
Like 7.62x51 ammunition is actually 7.82.
So .390 could've been like a privately sourced equivalent to the prototype 9.5 ammo.
humble yacht
You’re on your own there
versed helm
Also
Another gun theory
MA37s might actually be MA3s upgraded to an MA5-standard rather than actual MA5s.
Maybe they're considered both a variant of the MA3 and the MA5.
So while the Marine Corps and Navy decided to just full-sale adopt flashy new MA5s, the Army managed to re-use elements of their MA3s and come out of the deal with, presumably, a shedload of spare parts from old MA3s they could use with their new rifles.
There's nothing to really support that aside from the name
But I feel it's a neat thought I had
Might explain why the ammo counter looks detachable.
whole pawn
What happens in 2061? I’m a casual when it comes to lore
versed helm
Nothin' I can think of.
whole pawn
2560?
humble yacht
I thought 2559 was HW2
jade wave
2561 is when Halsey made modifications to Master Chiefs GEN3 armor
humble yacht
She’s a space gardener carefully tending to her charge
And snipping away any weeds that dare to grow too large
jade wave
Nah bruh she’s got that logic plague
versed helm
Hag
humble yacht
Logic plague is not confirmed
versed helm
It is possible
humble yacht
And hopefully never will be
whole pawn
Didn’t Cortana already get rid of Logic Plague
versed helm
Though I mean uh what the logic plague actually is is a source of contention around here
humble yacht
She was rescued before succumbing
versed helm
You have me yelling at Chimera about how it's just basically psychology
And everyone else treating it like it's the flu
jade wave
How do you know she didn’t succumb to it?
whole pawn
Flood Juice
humble yacht
Because she didn’t align herself with the the flood
gaunt oakBOT