#lore-and-universe
vague scroll
versed helm
You learn something new every day
versed helm
Would the Covenant use like... persuasion or just hack and steal them?
vague scroll
neither
they just capture them and break into them, modify their code to fulfill their needs, and strip them of their sentience
often they're rapidly copied causing them to deteriorate/succumb mentally, faster
vague scroll
its a galaxy encompassing construct believed to be created by the Precursors long before the Forerunner Ecunume came to power, its beyond the concept of time and is the sum total of all experienced knowledge of advanced civilizations in the galaxy
its essentially the very science magic-like Forerunner Internet
versed helm
Well that's the way it's sorta been used.
But it's deeply enigmatic.
And quite possibly alive.
vague scroll
It is indeed a very enigmatic construct that is poorly understood.
And yeah, we have reason to believe it has its own concept of sentience.
I've not read it so I've relied entirely on people telling me the way I describe it is right or wrong and developing my general explanation through pop culture osmosis.
aka, read Halopedia for more information
or read the actual books pertaining to it: the Bornstellar Trilogy
obsidian thistle
My Halopedia top tip 531: Read sources if you wanna be 100% on the loop. Some things/stuff just cant be described on a wiki 100% right, or just cant be if they are just so vague.
terse lava
True, which makes me wonder, a race that is chosen for the mantle and actually passes. Would they eventually join the precursor civilization
vague scroll
we don't actually know what the mantle entails
to the Forerunners, it was galactic supremacy
to the Precursors, it was a test of some sort
for Humanity, well, its its birthright some would say
obsidian thistle
We know the Forerunner interpretation. And thats the version that kinda stuck in terms of the mantle.
If the idea of the "mantle" returns in the future, it may go under a different name with a different interpretation.
remote spruce
source is defunct
obsidian thistle
Defunct sources hurt me :/
One reason for [Secret project] Halopedia is working on. đ
terse lava
CIA's going on the Great Journey without the us!
warm wigeon
guess we will just have to "follow in flight"
terse lava
Heh
obsidian thistle
Well not all secrets are kept for long.
terse lava
Wonder if the Covenant knew of the domain, could be the idea of where they for the whole godhood part of the great journey
warm ridge
Isn't the AI 343 Guilty Spark talking to in the HCEA terminals the same AI that Cortana managed to capture in Halo: First Strike? along with her mentioning it having similarities to her in many different ways but she couldn't remember where it came from.
carmine sleet
Different AI. The one in First Strike was never on the Truth and Reconciliation
warm ridge
Either way both AI's represented very similar characteristics, the AI 343 interrogated didn't even seem to know how to answer questions correctly and almost seems as if it was "forced" to believe in the Great Journey hence why it wanted to be "free".
clever fable
On that whole source thing, is something being done about the old links that went to Catalog's forum posts? I don't think they've worked in awhile.
terse lava
Halopedia likely has them archived
I admit I didn't miss that bit of roleplay lore telling they did for us
main rivet
If Halopedia doesnât, archive.org probably has them.
At the very least they probably have transcripts of Catalogs stuff the same way as the Data Drops.
versed helm
The mantle is a really weird concept
I've chucked it out here before, but I'm 90% sure that the Precursors decided that humanity should be tested to inherit the mantle after the Librarian put her plans into effect. In fact I'm even more sure that the Flood events we see from 1-3 are just that, a challenge against humanity's ability to honour its role as a steward of the galaxy while not simultaneously messing everything up in the process
The flood weren't made to test humanity
humble yacht
Thatâs one of my least liked fan theories
versed helm
i agree
Well you can say that the Flood weren't but that isn't objectively true by any standard. If you read the Forerunner series, there's a huge indication that the origins of the Flood may be tied to the displeasing of the Precursors at how the Forerunners managed their handling of the mantle
As a side note, instead of being like 'no u', lay out your points, explain why the other person's theory may be whack.
The 40k lot are better behaved than some of you here and that's saying something.
feral perch
The Flood exists to exact vengeance on the Forerunners for their betrayal.
hasty locust
Mhm
feral perch
Whether the Flood care about the Mantle or not is secondary at best, to their goal of absorbing all life, either in one mind of peace, or everlasting torment. Whichever interpretation you prefer, Halo 3âs or Greg Bearâs.
hasty locust
To me the flood is one OF the best written hive minds/space zombies in sci fi
versed helm
Definitely agree! And I don't think the purpose of the Flood is limited to testing humanity, but I think it is an expectation that the Precursors have. But again, that's just going off of the crumbs of detail we get in the Forerunner books.
hasty locust
Yeah didnât they grind themselves ip to preserve themselves and that dust became the flood right?
feral perch
They didnât intend to become the Flood, I donât think.
hasty locust
Yeah it got corrupted or something?
feral perch
They preserved themselves in jars of dust, meant to be reconverted to some other form later on.
But their bitterness and negative emotions corrupted the dust.
feral perch
Yeah.
hasty locust
Yay i wasnât wrong lol
Im gonna try to reread all the halo books at some point in the near future
versed helm
@feral perch I don't know if it would be accurate to say that the Precursors are the Flood. Given that it is detailed that the Precursors have the ability to fade in and out of existence in material dimensions.
So whose to say that there aren't Precursors lurking around still in the picture
But one Precursor, I forget its name now, most definitely kicked off the birth of the Flood by converting himself into a Flood form
The Primordial is it?
feral perch
Thatâs possible, but we havenât seen them. Why havenât they reappeared to help correct things?
And yeah.
versed helm
Which is why I'm sticking to my guns about this whole test thingy. I reckon they're sitting back to see if things pan out, given that their last attempts to communicate with the Forerunners were thrown back in their faces
Does that make sense?
feral perch
But the Flood were Precursors. The Precursors became jars of dust, the dust became the Flood, and the Primordial was connected to the Flood.
I donât think the Precursors care anymore, if any of them still exist beyond the Flood consciousness.
versed helm
I definitely see your point regarding the dust/spawning of the Flood, but I was under the impression that the Flood were spawned from the entity that the Primordial being evolved into? Is that an oversimplification?
But disagree on the point of them not being interested. I think the Precursors have the potential to be interested given that they have had a significant influence in building/influencing things in the galaxy, but conversley they could just be really pissed off and disinterested
humble yacht
No
The dust existed separate from the primordial
The pre-Flood evolved without direction from the primordial
When the primordial finally died at the hands of the didact, it sent its consciousness into the flood and joined them
The flood was already around by that time
It was separate
It was not made of flood tissue in life, Iâd thatâs what you mean
The primordial knew about the flood and may have had some psychic connection to it
mellow swallow
Y'all talk ing about the flood
versed helm
the Primordial claimed that the Flood and the Precursors were synonymous, though despite the Didact's queries, it did not disclose the precise nature of their relationship. The Primordial provided further clarification on the subject of the Mantle, the purpose of the Flood, and the role of the humans in its ancient plan: the Forerunners were never meant to inherit the Mantle, and that humanity would succeed them in order to be tested for inheriting the Mantle.
clever fable
I always find the different representations of the Forerunner-Flood war between different stories interesting.
In the Halo 3 terminals, the last battle isn't made out to be "that" big, but in the trilogy the numbers are beefed up something huge. Planets are getting torn apart just because star roads get a little too friendly, ect.
Then there's Defender of Storm which has a Forerunner freaking out because "but if the Flood gets the space birds WE'RE ALL GONNA DIEEEE!!!!"
humble yacht
the last battle isn't made out to be "that" big
whut
OB says that MB had almost 5 million ships in his fleet
for that one battle
- Million.
versed helm
in the modern military for the U.S to put into perspective, there are 1.3 million active duty military, and more than 800,000 reserve forces as of September 2017, according to Defense Department personnel data.
so, that's pretty insane, big for forerunner though?
steep kernel
Nah
feral perch
People â starships
versed helm
Ok well we don't have starships sadly
maybe area 51 does, but we will never know that
terse lava
Yea the final few battlea.of the flood war were huge. Although wasnt mendicant's 5 million fleet mainly composed of civilian vessels? Like 1/10 were military and trendiest wave lacked a single warship
feral perch
I think so. He was trying to... flood Offensive Bias
terse lava
.....
versed helm
Offensive Bias was literally made to beat MB
terse lava
throws tomato
versed helm
so, didn't work out well
terse lava
Yea
versed helm
cries in corrupted AI
terse lava
I did find it heart warming he comments his loyalties are still with bornsteller and co
versed helm
explain pls
terse lava
In silentium, near the end, bornstellar and the other forerunners are preparing the halos to fire. It is commented that offensive is running ahead with his "small" fleet to meet mendicant at the line. While final preparations are made, comments that mendicant has sent a request for his fellow anvils to surrender and join him. Bornsteller asks why offensive tella him this. Offensive replies to show hr is still.loyal to the forerunners
versed helm
Ohhh, i knew that somewhat
terse lava
Yep
humble yacht
MB's fleet outnumbered OB's 436.1:1, or something like that
clever fable
When I say "that" big specifically, I'm talking about the core components of the fleets.
Though the weight numbers are definitely wonky too.
terse lava
I do remember he had his 1000 core vessels still
clever fable
It's not super outlandish since these are said to be big force multipliers, but stacked against battles that take place not too long before this it's almost paltry tbh.
Like 1,000 Sojourners in one spot could be considered to be a big deal for example, despite "millions" of them being in existence.
humble yacht
oh it was 2% of 2%
terse lava
2% of 2% of five million?
humble yacht
so 90000 warships, and of those, 2160 were capital ships
the remaining ships in MB's fleet were other things, like civilian vessels
terse lava
Sounds right
Then again, some civilian vessels were commented on being larger then even Mantle's Approach
humble yacht
MB's opening move was to send out 1.7 million leisure crafts against OB's fleet
OB commented that there were no warships among that first wave
it was a diss move
clever fable
BMing in a high stakes match smh
clever fable
I found a quote to give some context against what the old description is compared to in later releases. From Silentium
Warrior-Servants stand ready across nineteen systems formerly linked by star roads. Engaged in the clench: twelve fully capable Fortress-class battle stations, of limited mobility due to space-time debt, which will act as apex control for seven hundred thousand more nimble Harrier-class vessels.
Harriers are likewise capital ships. But not too far out of the old scope, in the next line, it mentions the Flood only brough four hundred dreadnoughts to bolster its own forces.
This was at the 78th thema.
terse lava
Also the harriers are implied to be tiny ones
clever fable
Couldn't find anything on them being tiny. Just a short explanation that they were more nimble than Fortress vessels which is... kinda expect for anything that isn't a Fortress vessel I guess.
fair hazel
The forerunner battles. Ahh I like Greg bearâs descripfion p
warm ridge
@feral perch We've argued over this before, but the Precursors never went insane. They simply hated the Forerunners due to the Forerunners turning against them entirely, and destroying there then organic bodies located in the Milky Way galaxy. The Precursors wanted revenge, hence came the Flood. They then used the Flood to test humanity so they know they won't suddenly "turn on them/imprison all life" like the Forerunners previously did.
It's never said the emotions or anything corrupted the dust, the dust corrupted over time, and the theory I have is that it was fully intended for this dust to corrupt itself (after all, the Precursors don't need the organic body to keep existing, apparently they have already lived thousands of lives already),
.
The one thing I'm the most curious about is apparently there's still Flood existing, and star roads as well in the Boomerang Nebula (also known as the Smith Cloud, it's just right outside of the Milky Way galaxy but in 30 million years estimated it'll be absorbed back into it) according to the Catalog.
barren niche
So, some of the flood did leave the Milky Way Galaxy?
feral perch
But the Flood were going to absorb all life anyway; why bother testing humanity?
Halopedia says, âThe few Precursors that escaped from (or were spared by) the Forerunners either went into suspended animation or transmuted themselves into dust that would regenerate into their past forms at a later time. However, over time the dust became defective, creating sickness, disease and biological mutations in other organisms that came into contact with it. With this new form â the earliest stage of the Flood â the Precursors vowed that none of their creations would rise against them again.â
became defective
terse lava
@warm ridge If the precursors did not go insane, then they are just incredibly Evil creatures. Their goal as the flood now is just simply to consume all life to prevent any creation from rebelling again and to make life suffer
feral perch
It states that their vendetta against the Forerunners came after this corruption.
versed helm
I mean
Like that's all well and good
But I still have serious questions about how we went from "evil dust" to "put evil dust on dogs".
Like, what gives?
How much dust even was there?
Why would you... I mean I guess it was discovered to be a mutagen that produced positive results, and since they didn't have any other use for it they used it on dogs.
Slash pheru
But y'know
feral perch
Millions of glass containers of it, on a fleet of automated starships
versed helm
It's a little undignified as a beginning for the Flood
My personal weak point of the Forerunner Trilogy
I think it shows that Greg Bear thinks grand-scale, but he thinks grand-scale in a way that's as practical as possible
Without any 40k-esque flare for the dramatic
feral perch
Itâs quite insidious. Halopediaâs description of the way it was transmitted between humans and SanâShyuum gives me Dead Space vibes.
feral perch
Extreme animal testing yo
humble yacht
Blue that on ancient humans and their tiny minds
But I can see how a farmer would maybe think that it was some fertilizer or animal feed at first glance
terse lava
The books said humans found nothing wrong with it and that it produces positive results when added to the pets. In other words, beauty contests doomed the galaxy
feral perch
The dust helped them to domesticate these pheru; it induced more docile behavior in said animals.
terse lava
True
Always humanity dooming the galaxy
Ancient humans eat pets, begin flood invasion, captain keyes opens doors to flood facility, dooms alpha halo. His daughter brings a freaking frigate over a zone with flood and dropships, dooms delta halo, high charity, voi, and somenod those on the ark
barren niche
Deja Vu
Yeah, the Precursors basically condone the actions of the flood because the Forerunners threw a collective tempter tantrum and nearly wiped the Precursors out.
gilded mason
His daughter brings a freaking frigate over a zone with flood and dropships
Would love to see just what exactly happened there at some point.
terse lava
@gilded masonlikely used that. Crashed pelican an to.pull.an infinite succor
warm ridge
@feral perch If the test failed on Humanity (not entirely sure how this "test" is honestly, precursors are/were very strange in there motives and how they operate) then all life would obviously be absorbed into "one" aka a singular living being in the Milky Way galaxy that controls all and fulfills this "grand experiment" the Precursors are doing on the universe itself. I wouldn't say they had any intentions on infecting other galaxies they planted life on unless these other galaxies also rebelled against them.
Yea, the dust became defective over time, aka the dust was literally "rotting" and full of bacteria, which when exposed to other living creatures it'd obviously change how they function, and with the Precursors intense knowledge, (theory part) they likely knew exactly how long it'd take for this dust of there organic bodies to become defective at all.
@terse lava The best way to describe the Precursors is from Halopedia itself: "The Precursors were not strictly benevolent, considering strife, pain and indeed evil an inherent part of the universe. The struggles of good and evil, the pleasures and pains of life, added to the 'sweetness', a sensation or emotional state that seemed to not have a human-analogue. "
They're simply beings that created the life as we know it in the Milky Way galaxy, and will destroy it if they deem it necessary of being rebellious against them.
In fact, to the Precursors both Humans, Forerunners, and more are just "tools and companions" to aid the Precursors grand experiment.
terse lava
@warm ridgei question that last part as we have no clue what humanity was too them. We only know the forerunner nature with their creators as playing the part of adjuncts
warm ridge
https://www.halopedia.org/Precursor
Background
2nd paragraph, 1st sentence.
that includes all life forms in the Milky way itself, the Forerunners were just a species that were "close to them" as companions. Currently, we don't know Ancient Humanities relationship with them, but obviously Humanity also played another role with the Precursors somehow otherwise I have no idea how ancient humanity managed to gather so much Precursor technology, even on what they considered to be the capital at the time. If anything, I'm willing to bet Ancient Humanity had a better understanding how most Precursor tech worked over what the Forerunners understood at all.
terse lava
If I had to guess
Humanity played the part of researchers and scientists while the forerunners acted as a "military", using what humanity provided and save guarding other, younger races
Or perhaps were charged with wiping them out
Warrior servants were the dominant rate at the time if the rebellion, thus my thought on the forerunner purpose at the time, where humanity is always being depicted as quickly reverse engineering technology
warm ridge
(theory)
Could be why they always had a strained relationship according to what we know, but it wasn't until the Forerunners decided to jump the gun in all out war when they discovered the Humans were glassing some of there planets, obviously ignoring the part that Flood existed on these planets.
because Humanity possibly didn't want the Precursors to be "killed" off, but the Forerunners did. Who knows what happened really.
terse lava
I have been under the impression that the forerunners were used as living weapons by the precursors to wipe out other races. The forerunners went with this at 1st for who knows how long along with humanity before they Became simply sick of it and thought they could do a better job at holding the mantle. Humanity apparently disagreed with this on some form and And a schism of some sort formed. Eventually humanity was chosen And forerunners knowing what be fell other races did not wish to suffer the same fate.
Thus they decided to rebel not only save themselves but any future life. Eventually driving their creators from the Galaxy,they started seeing themselves as Little better and started to invoke the mantle as a way to preserve what few Precursorss remained
warm ridge
That's not what the Precursors saw the Forerunners as at all, they weren't "living weapons" what so ever. They were simply assistants for the Precursors, we don't really know much else beyond this or what the Forerunners really "assisted" the Precursors in.
The whole "enslaving other races" (not entirely enslavement, more so the race would agree to be "protected" by the Forerunners although if a race sought war against the Forerunners of course they'd be enslaved) didn't exactly start until after the Precursors were killed off I'm pretty sure, or it could've just of always been a thing.
hasty locust
Person. Youâve probably wrote more here then my high school English exam lol
warm ridge
Forerunners interpretation of the Mantle and the Precursors interpretation of the Mantle were very different by the time the Flood attacked them.
The Mantle was/is about preserving life and letting it thrive, not policing life and keeping it from making advancements, even if it's beyond you.
terse lava
@warm ridgewe are told by warfleet the forerunners served as adjuncts, I am under the idea of the military variety as the warriors were in charge at this time. Now if that means they simply guarded life or else we dont know
It's only a theory anyway
warm ridge
This is another reason why the Forerunners act of the Halo rings by effectively "killing all life in the Milky Way galaxy" is the biggest crime against the Mantle as we know it. (thousands of species that weren't documented by the Forerunners never made it into the Ark, being killed off permanently. Wasn't there even a civilization that managed to achieve radio technology right before the Halo rings were fired, and weren't documented?)
The Flood on the other hand you could technically say is still abiding by Mantle rules, it's just now all under a singular mind or "multiple different precursors" if you'd call it that.
@terse lava definition of adjuncts - optional, assistant, etc. Not an essential part, but supplementary.
terse lava
Sound like a juridical there
warm ridge
terse lava
I am aware, there other versions of it
Can also mean an officer who assists a. Commanding officer with administration and management of human resources
warm ridge
point is the Forerunners weren't "needed" by the Precursors to achieve the goal and could be discarded at any time, hence why the Precursors were so easily able to make the decision to strictly say the Forerunners weren't worthy of the Mantle but Humanity (at the time) was.
@hasty locust I type a lot when it's something I know about and can answer, but ask me to do a writing exam and I'll have no idea what to put down.
terse lava
There is one thing I have wondered about ancient humanity. We never once see them try and save other races during their war of the flood like The forerunnerss did. I assume it's purely just because they were a smaller civilization but I wonder if there might be another reason
warm ridge
best case you could see the Precursors view is that "life" is disposable tools which are only created to aid them in there grand experiment on the universe, whatever this experiment might actually be.
terse lava
Not really helping their case
warm ridge
not sure what you mean.
terse lava
What I mean is I find it suspicious that the forerunners or apparently the 1st race to ever rebel against the precursor. The pre cursors in turn, some at least, end up as the flood and use it to bring eternal suffering to an entire galaxy
warm ridge
I'm pretty sure that's been said before but tl;dr we don't know if the Forerunners were the 1st race or not. The Precursors seeded many galaxies with life, and beyond that no one knows.
terse lava
Yet then why were they so surprised by the forerunner rebellion? Something had to have happened besides just a " you dont get the mantle"
warm ridge
It's never stated they were surprised at all, the Precursors just left it happen, some escaped some didn't. They never fought back even though they clearly had the means to do so.
terse lava
It was said they were shocked by the utter destruction their creations were capable of, oddly noting the forerunners were their most violent creation
warm ridge
Some Forerunners who later learned of how the Precursors were truely killed off state the Precursors had plans to "kill the Forerunners off 1st" while others state otherwise. We don't know what happened beyond the Forerunners being angry about not being able to hold the Mantle because it was such a big part of there culture.
By that you could say they were surprised by the violence the Forerunners showed, but not surprised of how they rebelled.
terse lava
Perhaps, perhaps, will agree to that
warm ridge
The Precursors in turn later appeared again as the Flood, and showed the Forerunners the same exact violence the Forerunners did to the Precursors all those millions of years ago.
terse lava
Yet isn't that kinda pointless? Sure from the precursor point it works but from the forerunners? None knew outside of a handful what the flood truly was, and thought the precursors left in peace. Wouldn't it have made sense for them to show the forerunners it was the precursors bringing down this ruin?
warm ridge
The point of the matter is, the Forerunners never truely learned, and were still doing the exact same things the Precursors originally deemed them to not be worthy of the Mantle at all. Precursors already took the calm approach, and got shot. Might as well take the violent approach instead.
terse lava
Hm
hasty locust
Ha, lol person. Me too
warm ridge
I'm curious if other Precursors which were responsible for seeding the Milky way galaxy with life may still exist in there original biological forms in "suspended animation". After all, the Primordial never claimed to the be "last living precursor" he only claimed to be one of the last ones.
terse lava
Makes me wonder, the precursors commented they brought the forerunner rebellion on themselves and the pain that followed. Sounds as if they liked the young forerunner race and encouraged them to obtain the mantle.
@warm ridgei would assume they still exist out there somewhere, or perhaps they woke up and continued creation elsewhere
warm ridge
Obviously it shouldn't take a Halo lore master to have the idea that many other Precursors probably still exist out there in the universe seeding more galaxies with life. It's the Precursors that decided to stay near/in the Milky Way galaxy is what interest most people.
terse lava
I was talking on those ones, as we have seen nothing of them in an active presence, they are either still hibernating, or have just been watching the goings on in the galaxy.
humble yacht
Iâd prefer if they were all gone
terse lava
True, when you think about it they would serve no real purpose in the narrative. Could see at best one pop up at the end of halo and giving everyone a " good job" talk
warm ridge
When you say they'd serve no purpose but obviously having had played a major role in the creation of life in the milky way galaxy entirely is like saying living Forerunners also play no role in the current narrative yet here we are.
terse lava
They would be too far of a game changer, if you were to introduce the precursors as a physical presence to the narrative, how would you?
humble yacht
Forerunners were interesting because they were powerful but not infallible. They were also bound by clear rules of life and death
Precursors are just... like Superman, kind of
Too powerful to be interesting
terse lava
Agreed
warm ridge
People like really powerful creatures, even if they don't obey the rules of "life/death" as we know it. It's why Super man is really popular at all even before we knew Kryptonite was his "weakness".
terse lava
The last time I saw a near immortal precursor race be flushed out in a game they ended up being Fuzz balls
humble yacht
With the forerunners you had this duality of mythololzation by the covenant, but then the forerunnerâs own records revealed them to make mistakes and be just as capable of fear as humans
I liked that
stable schooner
Superman is at least a American looking Human Male who canât bend reality as we know it though lol
terse lava
@warm ridge But the question is how would you personally bring them into the lore if you had the ability to
terse lava
cough went back in time cough
stable schooner
Well Iâm pretty sure he hasnât created all life in the universe yet lol or thatâs an Oof
terse lava
Held anblack hole in his hand, etc
I think there was one where he created a universe but not Life itself
warm ridge
@terse lava Welp look at Cortana doing the exact same things the Forerunners did, Humanity is once again appeared to be "on the run" totally with no escape. Flood may pop up again and perhaps a Precursor will tell Chief the secreta to defeat cortana lol I'm not a story writer dude
feral perch
Pls no
terse lava
@warm ridgemy point was though at best they would be given ing a good job talk at the end, or be.nothing more then a deux machina
feral perch
I hope Infinite only has traces and records of ancient races, and no living individuals
warm ridge
I just made up that last part as a complete joke btw
terse lava
@warm ridgei am aware, but realistically its closest we would get
warm ridge
what
feral perch
Precursors are still too weird for mainstream Halo.
warm ridge
no dude just no
terse lava
Hm?
warm ridge
that's by far not the "closest" we would get
Precursors could pop up in a variety of ways, even without us expecting it or seeing it
feral perch
I would prefer it if they did not, tbh
humble yacht
So would I
warm ridge
@feral perch I highly expect Infinite to talk about Forerunners and possibly even have a living Forerunner in it talk, maybe even retrace the steps. Along with more records of the events that happebed in the past on the ring.
feral perch
Forerunner, okay, sure
terse lava
Forerunners I am fine with
warm ridge
Maybe not the Precursors but Forerunner stuff definitely.
feral perch
Get to know who the Didact was addressing in Halo 4âs prologue
terse lava
Precursors...that's like a human talking to an ant
warm ridge
That prologue was made by the Ur-Didact before the Halo rings fired afaik.
feral perch
Itâs not very clear.
warm ridge
no one knows when it was made though
humble yacht
It was a little unclear but after like the second to me I understood
terse lava
Catalog oddly claimed that, greatly annoying
feral perch
That makes more sense, but the placement is bizarre
warm ridge
we just know it was before the rings ever fired
humble yacht
I imagine it was a speech to the other high ranking members of the ecumene
terse lava
@humble yachtcould you kindly elaborate?
humble yacht
Likely before his disgrace
I imagine it was one of his speeches in response to the ecumene wanting to use the halos to defeat the flood
feral perch
But the language is so odd.
warm ridge
@terse lava Catalog also claimed the Flood still exist in the Smith cloud just outside of the Milky way galaxy and only 5,000 light years from Earth.
so
terse lava
@warm ridgewasnt it argued that could have been catalog being confused
warm ridge
where?
feral perch
Who is Catalog, by the way?
terse lava
@feral perch In this particular case it was a 343 employee that would answered lore Q&A years back. It was as forerunner juridical, a forerunner rate charged with legal duties, who had survived the halos and awoken in the modern era
@warm ridgei think back during those sessions
feral perch
Oh, thatâs pretty cool
terse lava
Yea, halopedia has them archived I thinking you want to read them
dreamy plaza
Would it be very practical to make halo armor that uses powerful solar panels to power itself?
Because I have this weird idea of making Tech marine to Spartan armor that uses solar panels to help power itself
feral perch
Mjolnir is powered by a micro fusion generator, so probably not...
warm ridge
That's in the Halo universe, not the real world.
dreamy plaza
Ah, well there's a possibility that it could be used for Marines, but even if we do manage to make Mjolnir work, it'll probably take some, if not most-all of the armor to become one generating battery
warm ridge
Although using solar panels to "power" the armor wouldn't be practical at all, even if the efficiencies were near 100% (they aren't anywhere near that today)
unless you can make the armor out of nothing but super strong bullet proof up to armor piercing type of solar panel, not happening.
dreamy plaza
Yeah, that's what I've thought too. Even if you make the armor for even an Marine or an ODST, you still gotta make the armor just as strong and just as light as a regular one
Which could work, but then there would be the problem of it not shocking or cooking the wearer alive when damaged..
Not to mention, usage of forerunner tech of that would probably make the armor itself be spend more cash being researched/built than saving money being a power source
fair hazel
there isnt enough energy recieved in the surface area for solar power to be efficient to power something like that
warm ridge
that's why I literally stated near 100% efficiency (no solar panel in existence right now is capable of that) and the entire suit itself would have to be made of solar panels.
Let's not also forget the special types of batteries which would have to store massive amounts of energy for it to function viably, especially during night.
fair hazel
Batterie would likely be more efficient.
But, itâs yeah what you said. And itâs fusion. Fusion is great.
If only we could unlock its secrets In real life
versed helm
When it comes to Marine and ODST armour, it'd probably be more practical to have batteries that can be removed, replaced and recharged in a variety of ways than actually turning their armour into a mobile solar panel.
I mean, the only electronics they really have are in their helmets (slash goggles or whatever HUD eyewear they might have) and the smart-link stuff and ammo counters in their weapons, though their weapons may be more electronic than it seems - who knows, we don't exactly have in-depth technical specifics on them. Still, not exactly energy gobblers as we understand it. Potentially their body armour has temperature-control systems, but that'd only be because that was a piece of headcanon that was allowed to exist on Halopedia for a long time (though it would make sense). Different story if we're talking a rare instance where some kind of exoskeleton is at play (like in Nightfall), but that's not exactly standard kit.
And (as Rizzy said) given that their armour is light in weight, you want to do whatever you can to maximise the durability. The only circumstance you'd want to make the plates themselves some kind of solar power collector is if the material that you'd use to do so is the most beneficial one available for the sake of protection. And thinking about it from a realistic standpoint, the outermost layer of standard UNSC body armour systems would probably be some kind of spall-catching layer meant to catch the little dangerous fragments that bullets throw off when they're stopped (or full ricochets, come to think of it). Such a layer would be expected to warp and change as it absorbs more fire, so it's probably not super fitting for solar energy collection.
But you wouldn't want them to be reliant on solar energy, cuz y'know. Different environments. Different suns. But solar chargers could easily be a thing where they're useful.
On a side-note, TFoR mentioned Marines carrying what it called "battery sacks", when discussing the miniaturized fusion reactor of MJOLNIR. Wonder what they could be. My bet is probably that it's terminology associated with some kind of standardized battery system used for powering all kinds of heavy equipment groundside.
We don't really see anything that they could be on Marines which could be powering any of their immediate equipment. Nothing that'd be smaller than a MJOLNIR suit's fusion reactor anyway.
past olive
So I always thought that Spartan-B312 (noble 6) was apart of Operation Torpedo in the Ghosts of Onyx book (I hadn't read it at the time) but I just now found out that it was the other Noble 6, Spartan Thom who was apart of Operation Torpedo. Spartan-B312 was going to be apart of the operation but was pulled off of it last minute. The puzzling thing for me is I thought the reason he survived (when I thought he was the one on the operation and not Thom) was the whole reason behind his records being blacked out and him being sent on top secret missions that sound a lot like headhunter work and basically the entire reason he was described as oni's personal "Grim Reaper". Since B312 actually had nothing to do with Operation Torpedo, why did all of that top secret stuff happen to him? Was it just cause he was skilled? Is it even explained on the lore or not?
carmine sleet
The operations Six went on were top secret due to the nature of them, likely killing people ONI needed dead but couldn't just deploy an ONI team to kill
past olive
Yeah but I'm not asking what they were, I'm asking why him, what made him special if it wasn't surviving Operation Torpedo and if a reason is even specified or not.
humble yacht
He just presented himself as extra special during training and got selected to be part of the spartan-III âgifted and talented (and lethal)â program
But at the end of the day, itâs because heâs a player character
carmine sleet
Indeed, he was basically "Insert yourself here" and you're not meant to know much about him other than what you want to think is what he's done
past olive
I know, but I kinda wish it was him that was apart of operation torpedo cause that made him so much cooler to me
Your playing a character who has survived one of the worst Spartan massacres, has most records classified and blacked out as well as enough unspecified stuff to insert yourself into.
That's what I thought at least
carmine sleet
Just imagine he accidentally got sent back in time or something before Halo Reach began
past olive
XD
deep pewter
The previous Noble Six wasnât Tom
carmine sleet
I think they meant to put Thom, but I understood what they meant
past olive
Oh was his name spelt Thom? Huh I thought it was spelt Tom, lemme fix that
carmine sleet
Honestly, it is a little confusing as there's Thom and Tom, sure in text it's not an issue, but in spoken conversation, it would be easy to confuse them
versed helm
love fiction friday
obsidian thistle
Spartan-A293 works đ
carmine sleet
Very true but if you're speaking to someone who isn't as familiar with the novels, it's easier to say their first names
meager torrent
Are Spartan IIâs capable of reproducing?
Well that got deleted but basically augmentation at the start of teenhood should not allow them to
carmine sleet
Yes, Randall had a daughter and she was healthy until the attack on Sedra
carmine sleet
Nothing in the augmentation procedures removed their ability to reproduce
meager torrent
A Spartan II with augments would thoerically have all that extar âenergyâ channeled into other stuff rather than reproduction
carmine sleet
And not everything could be removed from Randall
humble yacht
Randall had his daughter while he was still augmented
He didnât get those removed until after sheâd already been born
The whole âdiminished libidoâ thing was a side effect of the Spartan II augments and not on purpose
obsidian thistle
Yea only thing we legit don't know is if Randall's wife died of Complications due to his daughters unique origins, or just natural stuff.
proud quail
i mean
if maria had kids, albeit maria was a spartan and nobody knows who's the dad,
what's the worse that can possibly happen
carmine sleet
Spartan 2.1s. Not like they'd be a problem given that ONI was fine with Orion Is having kids
proud quail
Didnt she retire with kids?
proud quail
Oh
obsidian thistle
And even then it could be the "Adoption" route.
carmine sleet
That is also true
terse lava
@obsidian thistlewasnt randall the one who died during the harvest campaign in halo legends as a marine?
gilded mason
Yer thinkin' of Ralph.
terse lava
Ah thanks
gilded mason
Though I don't think it was ever specified that it was Harvest.
terse lava
Actually speaking of halo, has it ever been said why the sangheili in Shadownof Intent simply vanished when then proto halo was tested on them?
gilded mason
I guess it's just that the prototype did its thing in a different manner than the production model.
terse lava
Which was weird, as that was the best when dealing with flood. The newest ones. Needed the solute to pull that off. And if the reason was it required too much power that can't be true either as the forerunners had borderline infinite power
carmine sleet
Could be that it was highly inefficient to have it destroy the bodies on the scale at which a Halo would operate
Which I realise sounds weird to say but it could be that it would be using way too much power to do that, thus, making it inefficient at its job
gilded mason
John used to have ammo pouches surrounding his ~đ Mark Vđ ~.
full forge
I know that
That's why I'm asking; Nobody wears Mark V anymore as far as I'm aware, and the vast majority of Spartans do not.
gilded mason
neural physics
gilded mason
I guess the armor has openable compartments.
deep pewter
I think some of the chest pieces definitely do if Iâm remembering correctly
sonic ridge
You gotta have a compartment for additional snack
hasty locust
Lol
sonic ridge
The higher ranks have bigger helmets because more snack storage
full forge
That's big brain.
hasty locust
Yeah those horns in reach are twinckie compartments!
versed helm
if i hear Neural Physics one more time, i'm activating a halo ring
carmine sleet
Would you like to hear about Neural Physics?
versed helm
you mean magic?
carmine sleet
I mean Neural Physics
gilded mason
Potato, potahto.
versed helm
what do you know about neural physics? i know that it was able to make Precursor artifacts last for billions of years potentially, did they die when the precursors did?
fair hazel
Halo legends in Armour storage
versed helm
Apparently Atriox has parts of UNSC armor on him?
carmine sleet
He has an ODST's chest armour as part of his suit
versed helm
never really knew that, kinda interesting
remote spruce
tummy armor
obsidian thistle
TIL of the effort Falcons Creative Group went into creative a realistic Halo ring. https://falconscreativegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/worldCreatorBKD.v004.mp4
Like that just blows my mind.
terse lava
Were you blinded by its majesty?
terse lava
An odd question for everyone here. The covenant fell apart thanks to the great schism, with the San shyuum promoting brutes due to various reasons. One main o e though was the sangheili wondering why humanity was not let in to the covenant. Thus my question would be this:
if the brutes had never been let in, would the hierarchs,lacking another warrior race to use over the sangheili, eventually be forced to bend to the high council as the war drags on and mores sangheili question it?
proud quail
bent to do what, accept the humans?
terse lava
Eh if not that then a cease fire. No brutes to replace the military commanders here, it made me curious if he would do it to preseve the Covenant here.
sonic ridge
Contact harvest good so far
terse lava
Indeed
proud quail
gotta remember that humans as a species are an anti-thesis to the covenant's beliefs
which began their eradication in the first place
terse lava
I know, but members of the covenant did start wondering why humans were not let in.
gilded mason
I guess it'd happen once Truth and company felt the Sangheili's possible revolt was a greater threat than the possible discovery of humanity's status partially ruining one of the core tenets of the Covenant. So it'd probably have to be really bad before they reconsider.
terse lava
That's what made me consider the idea, and if he would relent and let humans in, as some grunt level client, or just leave them be
versed helm
Maybe because we had the mantle?
humble yacht
Did the covenant even know of the mantle?
Doesn't seem like they really cared about the idea of the mantle if they did know of it
stoic hamlet
The Covenant didnât fall apart because the Sangheili were curious about the humans. It was primarily because of the changing of the guard and the truth about Halo.
But most Sangheili were still totally willing to kill humanity as they still believed they were heathens.
versed helm
Well, the san' shyuum know about the mantle i presume
terse lava
@stoic hamletyet truth decided they were no longer worthy as they began questioning the need for the war. They didint find.the great journey was a lie until a.bit of time after the betrayal
terse lava
Well Technically it may not be blood
versed helm
Considering that their design closely mimics biology
One can assume that it does so in function as well as form
Otherwise what would be the purpose
So presumably their blood fulfils a role akin to our blood.
But it is worth noting that innumerable sci-fi robotic entities have liquid substances within them.
From the Geth to the androids of the Alien universe.
So it's just a trope, really.
@stoic hamlet I'd genuinely be keen to see Ado's reference for the Elites questioning the war effort. I only know of one or two Shipmasters who questioned the war, but the Changing of the Guard was certainly the main catalyst to the Sangheili leaving the Covenant. It's been a while since I delved into the lore, but I could have sworn that the Prophets also broke a major tenant of the Writ of Union through the changing of the Guard.
@terse lava Well, I speculate that the Hierarchs would have either looked to exploit the numbers of Kig-Yar/Unggoy and streamline their service more to compensate for Sangheili skill with numbers. If that did not work, then they would certainly start looking for a race to incorporate. But I doubt humanity would ever be considered because of the truth of their right to reclaim and the fact that the Prophets resented that.
But as I understand it, not all Sangheili left the Covenant after the Changing of the Guard. Some remained through devout loyalty/hatred of the humans and fell under Jilharanae command. Some even left for the Banished if I'm not mistaken!
carmine sleet
It's complicated, many Elites disagreed with the decision for the Brutes to replace them as the heads of the military, especially given how long the Elites had been within the Covenant compared to the Brutes. But the changing of the guard didn't make Elites leave the Covenant, it was the fact that Truth ordered the Brutes to kill the Elites that caused them to turn on the Covenant. That combined with things like Spark telling Arbiter the truth about the rings meant the Elites, as a species was in a strange place
versed helm
And just to build up on Slipstream's last point, how hard it must have been to reconcile the Sangheili concept of honour with those revelations
stoic hamlet
It really had nothing to do with humanity.
terse lava
@versed helm The origin of the question in the war 1st popped up in a booklet that came with the limited edition of Halo 2 In a conversation between two sangheili. More later appeared in a bungie Q&A when odst came out and they had to explain why brutes were on earth
main rivet
Yeah the whole H2 -> H3 transition is remarkably weird, especially considering Bungie originally intended it to be one game.
ODST was them backporting an explanation into not having enemy elites probably due to resource issues, but it never was a very good one.
stoic hamlet
Ehhh, it kind of works
Mind I think ODST should have taken place maybe a few days after Metropolis.
To give the Brutes time to appear
obsidian thistle
Fun fact, Elites in Halo 3: ODST have their first frame still in the game. You can trigger it by exploding enough grenades around them triggering it.
hasty locust
First frame?
obsidian thistle
Like when you spawn in. Your character has a standing animation.
hasty locust
Oh, ok sorry
obsidian thistle
That animation is like frames.
So in theory if Bungie had more time, I almost bet you they could have had enemy elites to face.
hasty locust
That wouldâve been cool, seeing the great schism happening up close
obsidian thistle
It just may not have been that fun. As the H3 Elites were not designed to look threatening to you in campaign.
hasty locust
True
obsidian thistle
Say what you will about Halo 3 Elites, thats their biggest pro and con design wise.
past olive
the brutes got all the glory in 3
obsidian thistle
I did miss my hairy gorillas. xD
past olive
they didn't feel much different compared to the elites apart from them being really buff
hasty locust
Arenât all gorillas hairy?
past olive
what would an elites reaction be upon meeting a lizard
main rivet
Still throws me that Bungie totally redid the look of the Brutes in Reach despite them barely appearing in the game overall.
past olive
brutes were thrown under the bus real hard in reach
hasty locust
Brutes werenât even supposed to be on reach, correct?
main rivet
Nope. But I think they spun it as "basically everyone who saw them died" or whatever.
But that's the least of Reach's retcons.
main rivet
And to be fair, they sort of rewrote when and how humanity encountered all the Covenant pretty hard even before Reach came out.
Remember that TFOR didn't have Chief meet Hunters until Sigma Octanus, and Elites until literally the Fall of Reach.
past olive
iirc the fall of reach described the invasion taking place over several hours or a day or 2, but the game runs across almost an entire month
main rivet
Which reminds me, kind of annoyed me how they had Chief basically name all the Covenant in Silent Storm. "We'll call those ones Elites, and those ones Drones".
main rivet
Yeah, but Chief coming up with the exact name off the cuff for more than one bugged me.
hasty locust
Well I think itâs like the solo movie where they felt the need to explain things that didnât need to be explained
past olive
Chief met elites when he first encountered the covenant when he was 14
main rivet
Nope.
past olive
Sam died fighting elites
main rivet
Only Jackals and Grunts.
past olive
it describes a large figure with energy shields
terse lava
Its not horribly bad, early covenant went did the exact sane
past olive
they do mention grunts and jackles but elites were there as well
hasty locust
Yeah a spartan dying to a jackal or grunt is kind of weak granted he was 14
carmine sleet
Having it be Chief using those as designations for each of the different species during the operation allowed for the S-IIs to make calls without it being "Hey, that large alien with the sword is running towards you". That would be wasted breath whereas calling out "Hey, Elite with sword is running towards you" is much faster to say
hasty locust
Yeah but a designation on an op was then spread to the whole UNSC navy is kind of idk odd
But meh đ¤ˇââď¸
main rivet
True, but the fact that it's coincidentally what they ended up being called that bugs me. It's one of those "makes the universe smaller" things.
Certainly a small quibble, but one nonetheless.
terse lava
Agreed
hasty locust
Like youâd also think they would be tactical names or something idk not just nicknames
main rivet
Yeah so where are people getting these Elites on Chi Ceti? Even in the 2010 version it's clearly a Jackal.
main rivet
While I understand why they had to change the timeline of the war for more stories, I do miss some of what TFOR did in that even later in the war humanity didn't really know what the hell the Covenant were up to. Makes them feel more alien and threatening.
hasty locust
Like drones have 3 names i think? No just 2 bugger and drone
main rivet
In that sense I do give Silent Storma nd Oblivion credit because they spend a lot more time focusing on how you couldn't really predict what the Covenant were going to do because they didn't understand their culture and thus their military values.
terse lava
Yea but the idea that the covenant sent nothing but grunts and jackals for 27 years?
main rivet
Oh yeah definitely, that's kind of ridiculous.
hasty locust
Well wars kind of retconned that in the opening cut scene with obvious elites on harvest
main rivet
But given that they wrote TFOR in weeks and Bungie hadn't even firmed up the story that heavily you can forgive the impulse.
Bungie started the retcon train with Brutes and Contact Harvest, then Reach, Halo Wars just continued the trend.
main rivet
I'd actually have to check, but the only thing I don't think they've changed particularly is humanity encountering Engineers until late in the war.
They're in Halo Wars but that could just be a gameplay thing.
Same way the Spartans have shields despite being Mark IV.
hasty locust
Yeah, I donât think they are in the campaign however
past olive
ok I admit, I was wrong I could not find mention of an elite description, but between then and reach is 27 years, I doubt Chief would have gone that long not seeing an elite face to face
main rivet
Definitely.
And with Silent Storm particularly they've retconned that into oblivion.
Really they need to do another TFOR edition where they adjust it further đ
terse lava
Eh
I think the worst retcon was nerfing the covenant
Went from.controlling a.large chunk of the galaxy and turning a.planet to a marble to an unknown amount of star systems under thei control and only. nbombarding planets
past olive
which retcon
terse lava
Hm?
past olive
was the covenant retconned in the books or are you talking about in the games
obsidian thistle
Actually I dont recall a source saying the Covenant controlled a lot of the galaxy. That was more a fan interpretation. They do however control a lotta star systems.
main rivet
the choice to redefine glassing in Reach is kind of weird though.
As in I'm not sure why they decided that was necessary.
The idea that they'd spend time turning most everything to glass was part of what made them so dogmatic and powerful.
obsidian thistle
Reach was a odd time tbh. I am still thankful 343i managed to keep TFOR as canon.
terse lava
@obsidian thistlefair enough, but the glassing retcon still there
past olive
aside from gameplay changes, it makes sense for the covenant to be weaker at the time of Halo 4 and 5 because they are no longer as strong as they used to be
hasty locust
Like a fraction of what they used to be
main rivet
Yeah, and I'm not sure "okay so we decided to lie to Spartans and let the planet get invaded for a month" is a great retcon
terse lava
Talking of the actual covenant though, not those branches hes.post halo 3
main rivet
Considering they could have just changed three time stamps and two lines in Halo Reach and solved 90% of the continuity issues (aside from Cortana and the Autumn).
(Which is certainly Bungie's fault first and foremost.)
I wonder whose idea it was to have Nylund back to write Halsey's Journal.
past olive
although a month makes more sense, invasions on earth can take days and even weeks, and those were just cities and countries. Reach is a whole planet
obsidian thistle
Actually the Reach Space Radio actually oddly hints that the events of First Strike were happening during the Sabre mission. (If you tie the other radios around it where suitable) So it legit seems something changed.
main rivet
Because it always felt like a garbage move to have the guy whose book you trashed write explanations for why you trashed it.
obsidian thistle
Regardless its still a odd time Reach.
main rivet
Reach: "An Odd Time" describes a lot of it đ
hasty locust
Ha
main rivet
On the plus side, 343's probably-excessive permissive attitude towards including Reach did not extend to the Datapads đ
terse lava
I think bungie did it in purpose to mess with Microsoft
main rivet
I really have no clue. I'd have loved to ask.
Was bummed out that a while back I reached out to Bungie about getting some interviews for a Hindsight: Reach article at Forward Unto Dawn and they had some people who were really interested, but then they just got sucked into the Destiny crunch maw and nothing came of it.
Compared to the other games, the Vice "History of Halo" article really didn't get into a lot about Reach's changes too. It's pretty clear it went through some pretty big shifts.
barren niche
I am hoping Infinite doesn't absolutely bombs because I want another ODST game in the same Noir Feel as the first one
humble yacht
The chances of it bombing are slim to none
barren niche
Yeah, and I am hyped because there is gonna be more lore when it drops and hopefully an explosion of players.
fair hazel
Invasions can take a long@time on earth. Except weâre talking about a more advanced and numerous alien@civilization bent on anihilating everyone
remote spruce
Wait the radio stuff implied events from First Strike being concurrent with Long Night of Solace?
last anchor
Cant be, Long Night was almost a month before the fall ended. First Strike happened in early November I think.
obsidian thistle
During the mission "Long Night of Solace" in the first Sabre segment, there is radio segments that play during the mission.
These reference stuff in the other Radios.
"Which is kinda hard to do if they were not linked"
So the logical explaination is. The radio transmission is not canon at that point in time.
But happen later
Its not in the right order but here is the audio for those sceptical. https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/cia391/video/20887038
sacred dew
The combine invasion in half life lasted for several hours for example
last anchor
Yeah, but thats the Combine.
Remember Gordon Freeman wasnt there to stop them. If he had been the invasion would have lasted about two minutes before Freeman came in and, with angry Seattlite MIT-fueled nerd stregth, beat every single Combine leader ot death with his crowbar
He has a lot of repressed anger about having to leave Seattle to go first to Massachusets (which sucks) and then to NEVADA (which sucks even MORE).
And also about having to wear ties
Why do you think he survived Black Mesa so handily? He's basically Doomguy, but in a civic enviroment
sacred dew
No wonder the covenant almost won where are all the angry space men when u need em ?
terse lava
In 40k
sacred dew
In the 41 millennium there is only ANGER
last anchor
Well yes more or less
sonic ridge
batul bruvas! Sphess mahreens!
sacred dew
Ahaha guess ripa must be timetraveller
terse lava
Why
sacred dew
Because the guys so angry 40k,the future full of angry people come on
last anchor
I dont think 40k and Halo can exist in the same universe unfortunatly.
Mostly because slipspace is quite obviously NOT the Warp.
gilded mason
unfortunatly
last anchor
I like both universes. A man can dream of them together theoretically, right?
Its the same reason I LOVE that Kat and Emile are in Gears 5.
Fortunatly for me most of my other series interests can mesh well with Halo since the majority of them dont involve any kind of space travel
sacred dew
Slipspace and the warp do have somethings in common like they both are ftl, they both have time travel ,they both have time manipulation and they both have demons
past olive
He
sacred dew
I think
past olive
What was it I said
gilded mason
and they both have demons
Where was that said about slipspace?
carmine sleet
I think they mean Spartans
sacred dew
Helseys journal mention ais hearing voices in slipspace
past olive
But 40ks demons are literal demons
carmine sleet
That doesn't equate to demons existing in Halo, Richard
sacred dew
I was joking about the demon part it's most likely a precursor related thing
terse lava
Well with how the precursors behave... not inaccurate
last anchor
Fair, but you dont need a Gellar Field to run through Slipspace.
It is kinda dangerous though, but not to the point of the Warp.
sacred dew
I think u some form of Protection for slipspace for the covenant it's energy shields for humans it's something called quantum fields it's mentioned in helseys journal or halo fall of reach I think am gonna be I read it some where I just don't remember
And a certain amount of mass if you don't have that u get erased from existence
hasty locust
Yeah because who knows wtf gonna happpen in the year 40,000
sacred dew
The precursors are from the 40k galaxy when they were just the old ones they saw the galaxy going to hell so they made there own instead
Completely legit precursor origin story
humble yacht
False
sacred dew
The guy/girl above me is a heretic
sonic ridge
Space pirate getting aroused at the thought of enuf money
fair hazel
Yeah not really.
versed helm
So having finished the MW campaign, I have some advice for Halo. And it relates to the universe as well.
Magazines. God, the reload animations in MW are so satisfying. They add tremendously to the experience of a FPS.
It'd be cool to have the realism and functionality of reload animations step up a notch. And it'd be a good opportunity to canonically nail down the visual and technical nuances of various weapons.
hasty locust
Didnât it come out yesterday
versed helm
Ye
sudden shuttle
yeah, it did.
hasty locust
And there is a campaign in this one? Cause I donât know if Iâm the only one whoâs played COD games for the campaigns
remote spruce
I hear some of the reloads are incorrect or something
versed helm
CoD never gets it 100% right.
hasty locust
Well if elites are reptilian then yes they would shed
versed helm
But it's the weight and the aesthetics and the rhythm that make a reload.
Gratuitous, weighty magazine insertions.
Clunk-click
Then you either just have a bolt release or a proper charging handle
Halo charging handles always have the user pull them and them push them
A satisfying charging handle is one you just pull back and it thunks forwards
đ
hasty locust
But the more interesting part would be the heating gear or cooling gear they would have to wear in cold or hot climate because if they are reptiles they would be cold blooded so they would need to support that heat with external sources, that would actually make for a fun mechanic in a stealth game where you can like shut down the heaters around an elite and they yâknow, shut down
I liked the CE reloads
sonic ridge
Theyâre not cold blooded
Either that or they have the most amazing heating systems ever conceived
Which I doubt
The arbiters armour is antiquated and he goes to many frozen places
They can even take the cold better than humans
hasty locust
Yeah but then they are a complete new class of animal never seen before unless they are yâknow birds đ¤
sonic ridge
Theyâre alien
hasty locust
Grunts are bugs I think jackals are birds, drones are also bugs
gilded mason
Theyâre alien
Yup, the big thing here.
hasty locust
Brutes are mammals
humble yacht
Grunts are closer to crustaceans
hasty locust
So our prophets
sonic ridge
Brutes are stoopid apes
sacred dew
Grunts are crustaceans that's how it's spelt
sonic ridge
Boi I sure could do with some surf n turf rn
sonic ridge
Elites are both reptilian and mammalian based
gilded mason
They might look similar but they are not able to be classified as Earth animals. Because they're not.
sacred dew
What about the yonhet
sonic ridge
The hell is that
hasty locust
Is it that Star Trek looking guy in nightfall?
sacred dew
Star trek alien
gilded mason
Yes.
sacred dew
There like evil bankers
humble yacht
Worms are neither amphibian nor reptilian
hasty locust
No I meant yohnet are reptilian or amphibian
And hunters are simply W O R M S
Invertebrates
sonic ridge
Thatâs why you die if you step on them
sacred dew
I thought they were more eels but humans called them worms as insults
hasty locust
Maybe
gilded mason
Both terms tend to be used.
hasty locust
Eels are fish so they would need water đ¤ so I think worm would be closer
sacred dew
Now that u mention it can they swim
sudden shuttle
their skin kinda looks, rubbery.
hasty locust
Yes because snake have noses and eyes
Just like how a legless lizard is not a snake because lizards have ears and snakes do not
sudden shuttle
don't snakes use sense and their eyes, but their eyes aren't really that good.
sonic ridge
Snakes have ears wot
sudden shuttle
what the.
hasty locust
Itâs not a lizard that got its legs cut off, it literally looks like a snake with a lizard head
sudden shuttle
that looks so weird.
hasty locust
Mhm
hasty locust
But itâs not a snake because ears
Yeah snakes have vibrational sensors inside theyâre noggins
sudden shuttle
snakes and lizards act differently
sonic ridge
Snakes are lizards tho
They act differently cause they gotta slither about
Snakes used to have legs but they evolved without them
hasty locust
Yeah OG snakes however were different from OG lizards
Just like how a snake is different from a turtle even though they are both reptiles
And I think I figured out what hunters are:
sudden shuttle
nightfall makes the worms if you want to call them that, like the flood
sonic ridge
Like how we are mammals but nothing like skunks
humble yacht
Theyâre not
sonic ridge
The place in nightfall is too dry iirc
sudden shuttle
there is some water.
humble yacht
Not all amphibians require moisture
hasty locust
Yeah itâs a halo ring
sonic ridge
Most do
humble yacht
Desert toads
hasty locust
They just drink through their skins
And breath
Hence my theory on why the worms in the middle of the pile can still live because it goes through their skin
hasty locust
Look up the desert rain frog
sudden shuttle
since we are on the topic of hunters, imagine if in infinite, they add assassinations to hunters like in FUD, but they gotta be in very low health like the warden
hasty locust
Yeah that would be neat
sonic ridge
Habitat is sandy shores
hasty locust
But would it make hunter fights too easy đ¤
hasty locust
Yes but not high, high levels
versed helm
Maybe you you add a really tight timing element to the hunter assassinations
sonic ridge
Just some
versed helm
You gotta like, bait out a big shield attack
sacred dew
Better yet imagine fighting a galith in first person
humble yacht
Ok sure some minimal amount
sonic ridge
Varies per species
sacred dew
Do we know how those look ?
hasty locust
Gross, gross and gross and lol, chimera
Drones can like live inside of her
And to think in lore there was probably one under new Mombasa in that level where you fight through the hive canât remember the name
sonic ridge
That video of someone splatting a spider and hundreds of babies running out
But drone
sonic ridge
What can I say except youâre welcome
hasty locust
Lol
So what we figured out of this conversation: grunts are long lost methane addicted lobsters
sonic ridge
No cause lobsters are immortal
humble yacht
Well, not exactly
hasty locust
Well have we seen a grunt die of age?
Hmmm
And grunts forearms look like lobster claws đ¤
THE CITIZENS OF NEW MOMBASA SHOULD CRETAE A RESTAURANT CALLED THE PURPLE LOBSTER WHERE THEY SELL GRUNT MEAT!
Well a Big Mac has about 567 calories which is like 2500 kilojoules of power which converted is about 694 watts so.... I have no clue where Iâm going with this joke đ
hasty locust
But a Mac cannon can fire a tungsten round what was it 12,000 kmâs a second
sacred dew
One book got Macs that move at 30km a second and another got light speed Macs
Actually it's one fourth light speed but tomato tamato is that how it's said
hasty locust
Well technically tomato tomato would be spelt the same but thatâs just confusing
And sorry the 12,000 a second weâre for the super macs found on orbital defense platforms etc, because a Mac is not one specific thing itâs any mass accelerated canon so one on a frigate would be a lot more powerful then one one a mammoth etc
sacred dew
Thanks skeleton in my closet đ
hasty locust
Or was it magnetic accelerator cannon, I donât even know anymore and, no problem
sonic ridge
Lobsters donât die of age but can die from being too old to get out of their shell
sonic ridge
The high councillors: kill Thel
Also the high councillors: Thel has saved us
carmine sleet
I mean, between them wanting his head and them being happy he saved them, Thel had become the Arbiter, found Guilty Spark, got betrayed by the Brutes over the Activation Index, his whole species got betrayed by the Brutes and a civil war had broken out within the Covenant. The Councillors were prisoners, they didn't care who was saving them
sonic ridge
I bet itâs cause they didnât have any snacks during the trial
carmine sleet
Sure... Whatever you say...
sonic ridge
The councillors have giant helmets to store food and you canât change my mind
sonic ridge
Theyâre certainly mammalian
humble yacht
No. But their physiology is likely close to that of terrestrial mammals
sonic ridge
Theyâre closer in biology to humans than any other species it seems
Inb4 they have 4 lungs and 3 hearts
supple salmon
I was just wondering can anybody tell me when the Grunt Mech- Goblin was first created or by whom?
humble yacht
Designed by grunts for grunts
The first time the UNSC saw them was in 2558. Itâs suggested that when Bahalo bowed to the Created, they got boons like technological advancements
fair hazel
Goblin had been used prior to created
carmine sleet
They were used during Halo Envoy if I recall correctly
gilded mason
Yup.
carmine sleet
Glad that I remembered that
gilded mason
What about them?
humble yacht
HW2 takes place after halo 5
gilded mason
Also the Created didn't lead to Goblins being manufactured. They were being made before all that happened, as said by Tech.
humble yacht
Given that their first reported sightings was right around the time of the created uprising, I canât imagine the Goblin saw widespread use beforehand
Perhaps the created gave Bahalo the push it needed to produce Goblins on a larger scale
gilded mason
Perhaps the created gave Bahalo the push it needed to produce Goblins on a larger scale
Would make sense.
sacred dew
Question Whats yield of an archer missle because a single frigate holds almost a thousand
feral perch
Itâs Balaho
last anchor
Against non-armored or shielded targets, pretty good. More than enough to obliterate armored forces on the ground and shatter buildings.
Against Covenant vessels? Not enough.
They're really FREAKING big missiles thats for sure
obsidian thistle
Actually the Goblin hasnt gotten a "Type" classification yet to even give us an idea on when it was first recorded.
remote spruce
Grim pls
obsidian thistle
So tbf that means it can appear at any time if 343i wanted.
wintry coral
Were Goblins used in the Human-Covenant War used or have they not been made at that time?
last anchor
Probably were a post HCW thing if I had to guess.
humble yacht
No records of goblins in the war so at this point, saying they were there would be a retcon
last anchor
The Grunts werent given that much freedom to do ANYTHING under the Covenant
obsidian thistle
We dont even know if the Goblins in Halo 5 are Created Goblins actually xD Thats a fun fact I recently found.
last anchor
I mean it took the Grunt Uprising to even let them carry GUNS...you think the Covenant would just say "yes lets let them pilot giant armored versions of themselves?"
sacred dew
Well they do pilot locust which is technically the same thing
carmine sleet
Locusts are very different to Goblins
obsidian thistle
Well Goblins were used in September 2558. Before the Created was a public thing. Suggesting they existed before the Created.
And well...
humble yacht
The wiki says elites and brutes piloted locusts
carmine sleet
In Halo Wars 2, the Banished use Grunts as their Locust pilots
humble yacht
Ah but thatâs post covenant
sacred dew
Slip ur right one pillages plants the other pillages people
remote spruce
brutes?
hasty locust
In the first halo wars the locustâs lines did not sound like a grunt
carmine sleet
Richard, I'm taking about the vehicles in Halo
remote spruce
did brutes drive them in HW1?
humble yacht
Halopedia says yes
obsidian thistle
The Banished had Banished modified Goblins. And they vanished before they left to the Ark around 03.15.2558.
Leading to Goblins having to existed before that point for them to even be modified by them.
sacred dew
Well that's one career gone
carmine sleet
How I see it, the Goblin was made a few years before the events of Halo 4, they ended up becoming widespread enough that the Banished, some Covenant splinter groups and the Grunts on Balaho have them as of late 2558
obsidian thistle
Well it isnt impossible for the Goblin to be an ancient design pattern. Or seldomly used during the War.
sacred dew
U know thinking about the covenant do love walkers locust , scarabs,harvesters,there a ground version of the banshee but its super rare and used for under water missions and am sure theres more
Ahh the kraken
remote spruce
though the grunts never reached a super technological stage
carmine sleet
You know, just had this come into my head, what if the Goblin was created by a Grunt who saw a Mantis wipe out their squad and as revenge, built the first Goblin out of scrap from damaged vehicles?
Also, Richard, there isn't a ground version of the Banshee
gilded mason
Think he's referring to amphibious banshees sometimes used for underwater missions.
carmine sleet
That still doesn't make it a ground vehicle
remote spruce
UNSC Dolphin when
sacred dew
Yep that's the one sorry mistaked it being able to travel underwater with also being able move on the ground
hasty locust
I think the UNSC âgreat whiteâ sounds cooler
Nvm
Actually that sounds terrible
sacred dew
The unsc leviathan
sacred dew
Those sound more like drones
sacred dew
The unsc whale
hasty locust
Unsc orca
remote spruce
UNSC Jellyfish
versed helm
That'd be the Uneven Elephant.
hasty locust
Unsc tortoise
severe lodge
UNSC Giant Oyster
hasty locust
Unsc urchin
versed helm
UNSC Do You Feel Lucky?
UNSC Two Hits For One
The UNSC Savannah was such a bro
Sacrificing its Shaw Fujikawa for the mission
last anchor
Dolphin amphibious assault craft...stolen anti-grav tech from the Covenant lets it "jump" out of the water and float above it like a Ghost would.
Okay thats a cool idea
hasty locust
Sounds cool I just donât like dolphin however đ¤ not very intimidating
fair hazel
does a pelican or warthog sound intimidating to you
humble yacht
Warthogs are low key very dangerous
hasty locust
^
versed helm
When I think of a pelican
I think of the relief of air support after a hard day of clanging covenant heads
hasty locust
Mhm
hasty locust
Then what would it be?
terse lava
Anything else, a phantom likely
hasty locust
Ride on down on a warthog like in halo wars 2
terse lava
Well thought we were only including dropships
terse lava
No. As that can't go from the orbiting vessel to ground
hasty locust
True
remote spruce
I forget if the Hornet can
versed helm
I'm going in a Vulture if anything
Those things are armoured to the tee and pack a solid armament
Pelicans, I observe, are good for speed and maneuverability
hasty locust
Comidor or whatever itâs called
versed helm
Also, Spirits/Spectres seem incredibly flawed and easy to shoot down
carmine sleet
Condor, Settlingspy
versed helm
Keep the UNSC ship names coming, I need five more for this Stellaris game
Just found the UNSC name 'Peas in a Pod'
remote spruce
Spectres are ground vehicles
feral perch
Whaddya mean? Spirit dropships are invulnerable in CE /s
terse lava
Not in halo wars 1 and 2
carmine sleet
The gameplay of Halo Wars 1 and 2 isn't the best to go off of for canonical info on how resilient a vehicle is
terse lava
A rocket from the novel of ce took one down, as did mounted turrets taken from the autumn
They are resilient sure but not invincible
feral perch
Super Spirits can be knocked out by a couple of SPNKr rockets
last anchor
So can normal Spirits. The whole "dropships aren't tough" doesnt really bring in the fact that flying is NOT an easy thing and hitting something with a large explody thing tends to make it even HARDER.
hasty locust
Lol
sacred dew
Most times spirit ares blowup by getting shot inside where there more vulnerable
ancient perch
marvin mobuto is a homie
sacred dew
Who
ancient perch
he was in sight of the index
hasty locust
Rip
sacred dew
Ahh so close yet so far
hasty locust
Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades
subtle depot
And the target locater in reach
sacred dew
And energy swords
median burrow
I love Halo lore
last anchor
As do we all
versed helm
Well
With the spirit, I was just referencing it's odd t-design and exposed hangars
When I say exposed, I oddly mean the shielded sections
I mean you could pulverize the shield
Take out one of the arms and then bang, down it goes
Or alternatively, you could hit the central cockpit (which isn't shielded if I remember correctly) and just bring it down
Not saying the Phantom or Pelican are any tougher
But the Spirit does seem awkward
obsidian thistle
Just realised. We can discuss Oblivion now here!
stoic hamlet
\o/
obsidian thistle
Oh hey I just noted something odd. Likely born of a mistake. But is really cool with the small implications it makes.
Using Luminarys the Covies discovered Te (The Lekgolos homeworld) in 789 BCE. Source (even though there is a few for both): https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/lekgolo-mgalekgolo-hunter
However they didnt make first contact till 784 BCE. (5 years later essentially) Source: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/catalog-interaction/4c3e1c6f-6519-4ee0-83a4-4bac13bf07a3/posts?page=37#post732
This means early on in the Covies history they spent around 5 years to respond to some Forerunner relic calls for one reason or another.
wintry coral
Was the Arbiter who went to Te for the Lekgolo ever had his name revealed?
obsidian thistle
Nope
wintry coral
K
terse lava
Maybe it took them that long to sift through the ring to find enough material to realize what it was.
Also makes me wonder if any of the covenant characters from broken circle were still alive during this time
humble yacht
I imagine it has a parachute
subtle depot
And probably some form of extendable heat shield. Itâs very possible six had a limp because a spartan in mjolnir could exceed the parachuteâs weight limit
lunar condor
Would think reentry packs are prolly made for space assault ODSTs since i doubt they made them for spartans at the time
But that just speculation
versed helm
They were for sabre pilots, seems like.
lunar condor
Oh
versed helm
But Spartans have plenty of custom gear.
lunar condor
Cant wait for that mjolnir jumpdrive so they dont even need spaceships anymore
đ
versed helm
The re-entry pack also seems to be a form of thruster pack as well.
Going off concept art.
carmine sleet
Reentry packs are specifically meant for Saber pilots and are thruster packs
versed helm
Thruster pack/survival kit I guess.
lunar condor
So a de-orbit pack i guess
versed helm
Well yeah
That's what re-entry is
It could have a parachute too, though.
But the thrusters would probably be a necessity in carefully controlling velocity in the upper atmosphere to avoid burning up.
lunar condor
I mean unless it can bleed off all of the orbital velocity with the thruster pack it would definitely need a parachute
versed helm
Plus fuel concerns.
lunar condor
Yeah id doubt it has enough fuel to land the person on thrusters alone
Granted its a small mass that it needs to slow down but it would also be a waste of resources
last anchor
Its probably a parafoil pack like in the Graphic Novel comic in Sognam, the name escapes mea t the moment.
The one with Maria testing MK VI
sacred dew
Armour testing?
neat bough
Does anyone think we'll ever see an actual Key Mind in the Halo universe serving as an antagonist similar to how the Gravemind of Installation 05 did for Halos 2-3?
humble yacht
Keyminds are just local processing nodes for the flood
They can range in size of a combat form to a whole planet
Itâs really just an umbrella term for flood thinking units
Technically a gravemind is a keymind
So is a proto-gravemind
I wonder if keyminds were used as signal boosters for the gravemind during the war
I find it odd that the flood outbreak on alpha halo was in feral stage when there was a gravemind on delta halo; seems to suggest there is a max range of influence the gravemind has over the flood
humble yacht
Not in the sense that they have consciousness or personality
Only a full fledged gravemind is capable of that
A proto gravemind can drastically improve the intelligence of a flood outbreak, though
versed helm
Does anybody else think humans being Forerunners or rivals to Forerunners undermines the innate themes and stories present about humanity throughout the Halo series?
carmine sleet
Well, humanity aren't Forerunner
gilded mason
He said "rivals to Forerunners" right afterwards.
versed helm
I know they arenât. Although before new material arose there were allusions being made about humans being Forerunners. Now though they were rivals to Forerunners that were practically identical to Forerunners technologically.
humble yacht
Well technically
Bungie themselves eventually decided that forerunners and humanity were separate species
They revealed as much in at least one interview
The loss of that ambiguity doesnât really undermine the themes
Humans are still Reclaimers
Itâs just that humanity are metaphorically the same as Forerunners instead of literally
neat bough
Ah, that's interesting.
sacred dew
What class is the unrelenting because I've seen it as a frigate,battlecruiser and a nameless class
stable schooner
Better handled then Mass Effect did with its godly species Iâd say.
obsidian thistle
Nameless class atm @sacred dew
sacred dew
Thank you
Bummer
obsidian thistle
All visual depictions of it have been said to be non-canon.
So that kinda kills that sorta thing.
humble yacht
I want a visual depiction of the Point of No Return
versed helm
Point of No Return needs that
obsidian thistle
It is a unique ship after all. (One maybe not 100% unique in what it can do, but unique all the same)
versed helm
The name is my favorite part
the name of structures, and ships in the Halo universe excite me
humble yacht
I want to go into Odinâs Eye and spout my deepest darkest secrets
They should capture Cortana and throw her matrix into that room
And seal it
She could still be useful
feral perch
crush her, make her suffer
terse lava
Do we have to share the rock?
humble yacht
Hard light avatar
sacred dew
Can I talk about oblivion
gilded mason
Seems so, according to CIA.
sacred dew
OK
Well then do we know the origins for the spider Mechs