It can be pretty dangerous out there! Heavy ordnance means safety!
#lore-and-universe
terse lava
Come on down to chieftain julius' bbq and thornbeast emporium.
stable schooner
They don’t actually have a name their just called Flak Hunters in the files cause they use Fuel Rods( Flak guns). Otherwise their just normal Hunters with Fuel Rods which is why their Gold Instead I presume
remote spruce
thanks
ebon heron
I should write an alternate timeline
Where instead of the Covenant declaring a genocidal war on humanity
The religion reforms after finally discovering their ‘reclaimers’
And humanity is subjugated by the covenant instead of nearly being eradicated
carmine sleet
I don't think the Covenant would subjugate humanity if they saw them as the true Reclaimers
feral perch
Humanity wouldn't be subjugated anywhere near as easily as most other races.
Any attempt to do so would create a drawn out war.
And the Spartans would be fighting them just the same.
unique rune
Reforming a religion that’s held fast for millennia would be a far bloodier, more drawn out affair than what you make it sound like.
gilded mason
Though that would be interesting to see. Who sides with who, what kinds of reactions and political grandstanding occurs, etc.
feral perch
I'd love to see Xytan's exploits
terse lava
Makes me. Curious, if the.covenant survived as a civilization through the schism. Would they seek to atone to humanity
feral perch
Probably not. The idea of "reparations" seems alien to the aliens. Also, they're very proud.
You don't see Arbiter-loyal Elites getting teary-eyed or weighed down by guilt because of their actions during the war.
It happened, it was unfortunate, but they're moving on.
They're quite happy to hold grudges though.
fair hazel
shipmaster from the return
terse lava
Oo, let me re.phrase it then
feral perch
and from Envoy
terse lava
Right as earth is attacked, mendicant bias manages to free itself and broadcasts across the covenant for the war to cease.
gilded mason
So this after after 27 years of war?
vague scroll
Even then, its doubtful.
gilded mason
Well, we know the number of human sympathizers was steadily growing as the war progressed.
vague scroll
Look at a short conflict in fiction of similar concept, the First Contact War in Mass Effect.
terse lava
Yet the turians stopped.once ordered too
carmine sleet
Turians aren't anywhere near as fanatical as the Covenant was
vague scroll
After the Asari intervened in the war between the Turians and Humans and Humanity was welcomed into the Citadel galactic community, Humans and Turians were still at odds with one another for a good sixty years.
I'm getting to that Slip.
unique rune
@versed helm They’re a different type of Mgalekgolo formation, but essentially yes, they’re basically giant Hunters.
Typically formed only under dire circumstances due to its detrimental effects on the lekgolo eels involved.
carmine sleet
Like, I do need to replay Mass Effect but still
vague scroll
Now, Shanxi, the colony that the Turians occupied wasn't devastated by them, unlike Harvest with the Covenant.
If the Turians and Humans were still on icy relations just over a few thousand dead, millions dead and a planet destroyed isn't going to make everyone suddenly on good terms.
Humans and Covenant would still be boiling for blood.
unique rune
I don’t recall what exactly it does. Not sure if it’s specified to begin with.
terse lava
I would expect that, I am not looking for a kumbaya moment, just curiousn whether after harvest or earth, take your pick, would the covenant obey an edict from a representative of their gods
vague scroll
It might stun the Covenant for a little, but once they get over, either that their religion is a fad, or they double down and find an excuse for how to continue their religion, they'll go right back to killing humans.
And its not like Humanity would stop, if the aliens pause, we'll just take our opportunity to strike back and kill as many as we can before they start attacking again.
unique rune
@versed helm I think I got the Goliaths confused with other Banished applications of Lekgolo. Those tend to cause harm to the individual eels.
Only major drawback I’m seeing for Goliaths is that they take a lot to maintain.
vague scroll
That's what the classic science fiction book, Ender's Game, was about.
terse lava
Never read it, good as Foundation?
vague scroll
It's a foundational piece of modern science fiction, some of the ideas, like children being used as sorta of super soldiers in Halo is inspired by Ender's Game.
gilded mason
And its not like Humanity would stop, if the aliens pause, we'll just take our opportunity to strike back and kill as many as we can before they start attacking again.
Though considering this was after Reach fell, could the UNSC afford to restart the war if there was a chance humanity wouldn't go extinct if they and many of the Covenant ceased?
vague scroll
Withstanding on the late author's opinions about the LGBT community, it is one of the prominent science fiction stories people point to when discussing the genre. Up there with Starship Troopers, Forever War, Ringworld, and others.
@gilded mason There is a concept of "war by other means," if you can't throw bodies at the problem, you'll develop alternatives. One such alternative was the NOVA Bomb.
In fact, this did happen in canon. Operation: SUNSPEAR, even though the War was over and the UNSC had managed to survive on a ceasefire, their communications were limited with SPARTAN-II Grey Team and operating on their standing orders, Grey Team destroyed the Sangheili colony of Glyke with a NOVA Bomb.
gilded mason
It might stun the Covenant for a little, but once they get over, either that their religion is a fad, or they double down and find an excuse for how to continue their religion, they'll go right back to killing humans.
It's worded a bit oddly, but are you saying all of them, even the ones that realize the religion was faulty, would go back to killing humans?
vague scroll
as an organization, yes, if the Covenant manages to survive the religious upheaval, they will return to the original mission.
even if say the Unggoy or Kig-Yar didn't believe in the Great Journey, they were still subjects of the empire built around the theocratical societal system. Whoever takes up the reigns of the Covenant after the fallout will continue to enforce their social structure because its all they know.
gilded mason
if the Covenant manages to survive the religious upheaval, they will return to the original mission.
Why?
vague scroll
There's a lot of reasons that could be made. Self-defense being the biggest.
Because Humanity didn't stop.
gilded mason
Seems a bit circular here.
terse lava
Couldn't it be sad that the covenants may just leave humanity alone as false prophets reprove and to give them the order to attack humanity
vague scroll
a lot of logic is circular, the problem is what a faction knows is not the whole picture.
gilded mason
And we know human sympathy was rising as the war went on.
vague scroll
If you're working with only a piece of the puzzle, you can't see the forest for the trees. You're focused on what makes sense in the situation you have in front of you.
sympathy was left to the extreme sideliners, while sympathy existed, it wasn't like it was going to change the way the Covenant looked at Humanity.
and those that vocally expressed their consideration for humanity were either stamped out as heretics or told they were wrong and they returned to believing what their religion said was so
gilded mason
That sympathy would help when they find out that humans are apparently the Forerunners.
vague scroll
That's assuming if we're working with the flawed assumption that was made during the Bungie era.
gilded mason
I'd be going with what Bias said, false or not.
vague scroll
The interpretation that "Humanity is Forerunner/You are Forerunner" isn't an objective consideration.
As Truth argued in the Control Room of the Ark, Humanity was left behind.
Whether or not Humanity is Forerunner doesn't matter, the religion will warp itself to fit the old beliefs because that's the worldview they have.
Religions are among the slowest adapting fixtures in society, they are quicker set to keep to their ways or slightly modify their tenets to keep maintaining their relevancy.
gilded mason
But these aren't exactly old beliefs. Humans being heretical is pretty recent.
vague scroll
Or they'll reinterpret new information to fit their own narrative.
gilded mason
And we've seen many shed the religion in canon once the truth came out.
vague scroll
We saw this in our own history with Christianity modifying existing holidays in Pagan religions to make it easier for Christian missionaries to convert Pagans in Western Europe.
We've seen many more hold on to their religion than those that abandoned it in Halo.
gilded mason
We've seen many more hold on to their religion than those that abandoned it in Halo.
Was that stated anywhere?
vague scroll
The Sangheili still worship the Forerunners, they don't act as dogmatic about it as they did back in Halo CE-3, but in 4 and 5 they've continued to worship the Forerunners as they did before the Sangheili and the San'Shyuum formed the Writ of Union pact to become the Covenant.
The Covenant religion is foremost a Sangheili religion after all.
gilded mason
The Sangheili still worship the Forerunners
Some number do. But many abandoned it.
vague scroll
Even the Swords of Sanghelios still practice the religion, they've just gone back to their pre-War of Beginnings belief.
There are more than a few reasons that the Covenant would continue their conflict with Humanity, however, the most likely reason - assuming that they decide Humanity is no longer are targets for religious genocide - is that its in self defense.
Because Humans aren't defined by religious fervor, they're defined by vindication.
Humans will continue to fight because for them its still a war for survival.
They wouldn't know nor really care why the Covenant stopped fighting, they will fight until they've either recaptured all their colonies or that the Covenant has totally disappeared from their territory.
gilded mason
Even the Swords of Sanghelios still practice the religion, they've just gone back to their pre-War of Beginnings belief.
...the earlier briefing Luther attended had confirmed that these Elites were aligned with the Arbiter, which meant that, among other things, they had generally abandoned the former notion that the Forerunners were gods.
vague scroll
if you're quoting from somewhere, you'd help a lot by naming the source
gilded mason
Hunters in the Dark, sorry.
vague scroll
Alright that does help, so the SOS have mostly-probably abandoned the religion though that still potentially leaves open some form of religious interest in the Forerunners. It's likely they've abandoned it altogether given the wording from the book but I'd at least leave the possibility open that they haven't completely abandoned their religion - at least from a realistic standpoint and canon tends to leave a lot of possibilities open so I won't take it as an outright statement, especially when they use the phrasing "generally abandoned" so there is possible sects in Sangheili culture that continue to worship it.
On that note, beyond the Covenant Remnants - particularly Jul 'Mdama's faction, we've seen more than a few factions continue to practice the belief - Servants of Abiding Truth and Keepers of One Piece among others that have developed into their own sects/variations of the original Covenant religion.
The Keepers even allow human members.
gilded mason
Yes, though what I'm sayin' is that many will believe the truth and not bury their heads in the sand.
vague scroll
That said, we do at least know the religion still exists to some degree in the Sangheili - I'm reaching here on the assumption that the Shipmaster featured in The Return was still very much religious devote in 2559 and seemed to be aligned at the very least with the Arbiter's faction.
We know he still believed the Forerunners to be Gods even if he stopped looking at the Humans and the concept of the Great Journey as not being so much true any longer.
terse lava
From what I have seen.only groups still hold to the great journey idea. The keeps and a group led by luro talamee, the fleetmaster.from "the package
dreamy terrace
Right I've caught up on the conversation. Adherence to the faith that holds the Forerunners as gods does not come hand in hand with a hatred of humans. It's more of a heretical offbranch of the main theology that was brought into the mainstream through political means, namely through the Prophet's possessing the power to decree.
The Covenant's faith was grounded in forced common acceptance, the idea that everyone was free to join so long as they bent the knee to the Prophet's and their role in all matters of faith - and it was forced becuase no one had a choice of whether to join the Covenant or not.
That's the central pillar of the Covenant's faith, and the one thing that holds it together - that there are no purity tests other than acceptance of the faith itself and the Prophet's as its stewards.
Without that tenet, as stated in Broken Circle by Zo resken, all the other species are also considered heretics no better than humans.
vague scroll
I've already made that point that it doesn't have to be the Covenant or whatever successor state that have to be the aggressors, but the war will continue because there wouldn't be room for a ceasefire without the Great Schism that force humans and Sangheili to work together because we need to remember that the Humans and Sangheili were the only ones that were present at the ceasefire declaration at Voi on March 03, 2553.
The war for the rest of the Covenant factions never ended.
But that aside, the Covenant really don't have to be the ones who push for war - it will just reach a point where its Humanity and the Covenant both fighting for survival because Humanity will become the antagonizers.
terse lava
Yes he did note other races were once heretics
dreamy terrace
Now, for 3000 years this is the dogma, and then overnight this core pillar is repalced with a purity test that somehow classifies humans as being unsalvagable heretics whilst also maintaining that the other species are acceptable. This woudl almost certainly, without a doubt, have produced a massive rift in the Covenant. Ironically,, the more zealously faithful one woudl be, th eless they woudl agree with the Prophets.
So no I don't agree at all that any Covbies having the old faith means that they will want to continue the war on humans. That's conflating two entirely distinct theological positions that have little to do with each other and are actually mutually incompatible.
vague scroll
The UNSC/ONI were ready to continue the conflict no matter the outcome, as seen with the time spent researching how to poison the Sangheili food supply, promoting the Snagheili into a civil war, allowing the Sangheili and Jiralhanae to war on their own by themselves, and continue to spy and study the Sangheili and other post-Covenant factions in the post-War era.
Humanity is under the assumption that if they let peace be, the former Covenant species will eventually gather the will to finish Humanity off.
So, even if the Covenant decide to not continue their war on Humanity, Humanity will continue its war nonetheless.
And that will force the Covenant to continue fighting.
dreamy terrace
No this is inaccurate as well. the Covenant is built on a series of bloody wars that produced enormous blood tolls and huge damages to both sides. All that has to happen is that the Covenant can secure military victory, which it would. the rest woudl be history, which for the Covenant woudl be eventual human integration into the caste system.
vague scroll
The other Covenant species never posed the same military threat that Humanity does.
dreamy terrace
It may even have resulted in earth being glassed, but humans woudl eventually surrender, such as remaining colony worlds and innsurectionists.
vague scroll
That's a possibility Voka, I'll agree with that.
terse lava
Something I want to point out from the deta logs from the original Halo ers game a growing group sangheili who disagreed with the then new leaders were.wipednout by ripa moramaee
vague scroll
But that's the most likely end goal, that the war will continue till either Humanity has forced the Covenant as far away from their territory as possible, or Humanity will be so totally defeated that Earth will be lost anyway.
It's still total war on a grand scale. There's no way they can deescalate from here.
Too many lives have been lost at that point that the only way to win is to totally defeat your opponent.
dreamy terrace
The other Covenant species never posed the same military threat that Humanity does
The two founding members of the Covenant very nearly wiped each other out if there wasn't some last minute diplomacy and displays of humility from the Sangheili. The idea of dropping one's weapons in order to secure peace is written into the Covenant's founding document, so the argument of wiping out one's opponent in order to prevent reprisals already does not have great standing in the Covenant. On a more relative scale, where a weaker Covenant fought agasint the client races, the Yanme'e and Kig-yar proved to be especially troublesome to control yet the decision was still made to accept them in, even though it woudl not be difficult for bitter Yanme'e Queens or Kig-yar to develop bioweapons to unleash within Covenant populations in later decades, or detonate nuclear bombs at altitude to irradiate continents, or blow up space stations through acts of terrorism.
Yes, ONI has a NOVA bomb. NOVA bombs are pure overkill, and kill your enemeis quickly and cleanly. Blowing up a trade barge filled with radionuclides in low orbit can kill just as many people over long periods of time through radiation poisoning, cancers and birth defects, and is far easier for anyone to pull off.
vague scroll
I guess my argument here would be to point out that NOVA bombs present an unique threat to Covenant national security. I just don't think they'd consider allowing a threat that's capable of destroying entire worlds that they've been already fighting in a genocidal conflict would float well in allowing humans and the Covenant to deescalate the conflict. I believe that Humanity will fight until they're either dead or the Covenant has been defeated totally.
feral perch
None of the other races had super soldiers or eight hundred colonies spread across a large territory.
vague scroll
^ That's another factor, but I was more using that context in that Humans have lost so much already that they would refuse to backdown no matter what.
feral perch
Right.
dreamy terrace
You know. I really hate how pointless the NOVA bomb is. Anyone with a reactionless drive and an FTL system can kill a planet.
dreamy terrace
As in not necessary.
Accelerate a ship fast enough for long enough and you can trigger a mass extinction event on whatever planet you strike.
feral perch
Are NOVAs more expensive than starships?
dreamy terrace
NOw, when the Covenant conquered the Kig-yar for example, then gave them ships with FTL drives and reactionless engines, they gave potentila kig-yar terrorists the ability to nuke Covenant worlds.
feral perch
I would think a NOVA is less expensive than a slipspace drive unless it's otherwise stated.
vague scroll
we don't know but their rarity at least suggest the possibility of them being highly expensive to produce.
dreamy terrace
So I just don't see the Covenant being all that worried about reprisal to the extent where they show only humans special treatment. There's nothing humans coudl do post-integration that the other species coudl not.
feral perch
Could have been the R&D cost in an ongoing war held production down, when otherwise they might have had the ability to produce more.
Humanity wasn't building a lot of new ships during the Covenant War, were they?
Mostly refitting old vessels and undertaking the occasional grand project, ala Infinity.
dreamy terrace
NOVA's are probably very expensive. The amount of fissile material needed would probably be extortionate.
feral perch
But then, with Mjolnir going from two static variants during the war, to a large number of experimental projects, we don't have a clear idea of what UNSC R&D could and couldn't do
dreamy terrace
Compared to a UNSC Cruiser though, difficult to say.
But a civilian or commercial trade ship or cruise liner might be cheaper.
vague scroll
Voka, you're missing the point of the NOVA. It's not a pointless weapon because of the destructive nature of it.
Sure, you can poison a planet with radiation, but the point of a NOVA is the same as the atom bomb in WW2, the United States wasn't really considering the radioactive fallout of the weapon, they barely understood radiation at the time and how it would affect people.
They used it as a weapon to wholistically defeat the Imperial Japanese by showing how easy it was to completely destroy its society with weapon so powerful, they'd cease to exist. It was developed to totally destroy the enemy, the radiation was an afterthought.
It was also a moralistic weapon, given that the atom bomb didn't actually destroy that much in comparison to the firebombs used to level another 20 Japanese cities but my point is that the NOVA Bomb is an end of the world kind of weapon.
When someone uses it, there's no room to deescalate, there's only total destruction. No one survives.
feral perch
I don't want to speak for him, but I think he's saying that using existing tools to accomplish the same task makes more sense.
vague scroll
If that's the case then, I misunderstood because that's a completely reasonable point.
dreamy terrace
Right but we are dealing with peopel who do understand the consequences of radiation, specifically the Covenant realising that there's not much difference between a world nuked with a NOVA and one contaminated with lethal amounts of radiological pollution. Except that the former is a one and done deal; the latter is an incredibly expensive humanitarian disaster to clean up and contain (As those people will themselves be contaminated).
vague scroll
That said, the radiation weapon argument wouldn't really work because the UNSC's goal would be to completely neutralize a planet and its assets. You can still use spaceships if they're radiated, you can't use them if they've been destroyed totally.
dreamy terrace
You can't use equipment that's irradiated.
That's why Chernobyl is still a ghosttown.
humble yacht
The covenant would never have let in humanity in with or without NOVA
They would never have considered deescalation
gilded mason
They would never have considered deescalation
Why would they never consider it?
dreamy terrace
We've dealt with that already.
humble yacht
That’s not something that you can just explain away
vague scroll
I'm accounting for the extent of the orbital assets that are included in a planet's economy.
In total war, all facets of a society are geared toward the fight.
gilded mason
The context here is that Bias suddenly tells the Covenant that humans are Reclaimers, and that Truth and his patsies were lying.
dreamy terrace
Hatred of humans is not an organic development of covenant theology. It's effectively an executive order.
humble yacht
If that happened then assuming the prophets were ousted, the entire covenant would have probably disbanded
vague scroll
The UNSC would rather totally neutralize an enemy fleet in orbit around with a planet rather than let them get away.
feral perch
The Covenant Remnants seemed quite content to continue killing humanity, excluding the Keepers. It was just the status quo; they'd been killing them for 30 years. Why stop?
humble yacht
Aside from proving the prophets lied, that reveal would have shown the covenant their entire religion was based on a mistranslation
Well the remnants were still under the impression that forerunners were gods
feral perch
Also, who would say the Banished count as a Covenant Remnant?
dreamy terrace
I'm accounting for the extent of the orbital assets that are included in a planet's economy.
Fair enough, but I'd guess that most of that becomes useless without the ground-based infrastructure to go along with it.
At most, it's all salvage.
humble yacht
And at that point they were running on residual hatred of humanity that had already been established by years of war
vague scroll
Which is still serviceable if said salvaged, the UNSC wouldn't allow that if given the option.
humble yacht
If the Luminary had revealed publicly that humans were the rightful interiors of the forerunners, then the covenant would have either disbanded or, less likely, might have started worshipping humanity as an extension of the forerunners
stable schooner
You know for religion being a primary factor in uniting the Covenant theirs quite a lot of Multiple species filled Remnants.
vague scroll
Assuming that the Covenant disbanded or was reconstituted, my argument so far has been that the War would continue either way because Humanity wouldn't let go of the fight because they already lost too much. And their poor understanding of the Covenant would mean they wouldn't be aware that the Covenant's entire reason for starting the war to begin with had disappeared.
humble yacht
Wait
gilded mason
And their poor understanding of the Covenant would mean they wouldn't be aware that the Covenant's entire reason for starting the war to begin with had disappeared.
I would assume the Covenant would tell them why they're stopping.
humble yacht
Humanity hadn’t lost much by the time MB’s fragment corrected the mistranslation
At that point, it was a minor misunderstanding
dreamy terrace
I think the scenario is that he breaks free in 2552
humble yacht
Some raided ships, mostly
gilded mason
One setting was that it happens right before Earth is attacked
dreamy terrace
i.e. after much of the war
vague scroll
The OP asked in context of 2552.
humble yacht
Ugh
vague scroll
If it was just accounting for the first contact on Harvest, I could see the counter point that the Covenant could incorporate Humanity or any alternative vision to it.
humble yacht
Well if MB is gonna say that humans are reclaimers in 2552, then why stop there
gilded mason
my argument so far has been that the War would continue either way because Humanity wouldn't let go of the fight because they already lost too much.
But still, that seems incredibly lacking in self-preservation. Sunspear was initiated in a different context, when they thought that no matter what, humans were gonna go extinct. The Covenant ceasing the war would change a lot.
humble yacht
He might as well reveal everything, from the fate of the forerunners to the purpose of the rings
In which case, the covenant would have no reason to remain an organization
They’d likely resort to infighting and destroy themselves largely
But I doubt they’d extend an invitation to humanity out of fear of mutually shared destruction
Nor would humanity accept at that point
vague scroll
My one concern is the "how" in that how would the Covenant be able to tell Humanity that they're ceasing the conflict without a means of communicating that could be authenticated. Covenant forces have managed to communicate with humans before but I just have a lot of doubts that Humanity would go with stopping the war, or that they'd believe the Covenant that war is over.
If they don't go on the attack, there's more than enough reason for them to continue the fight by other means as they've done in the post-War under ONI with poisoned crops and instigating civil wars.
dreamy terrace
I mean, poisoned crops and civil wars woudl not work in this context.
vague scroll
I referenced Ender's Game earlier because of that reason. Because in Ender's Game the enemy just suddenly stopped attacking for no reason and Humanity just carried on assuming the the enemy was preparing to invade again. And the plot twist of the novel is that the aliens, the Formics, weren't actually preparing to invade at all.
dreamy terrace
There's nothing humanity can do that sets them apart from the other species in an integration scenario, bar NOVA bombs which coudl have been approximated (But not exactly replicated) by either relativistic kinetic kill vehicles or mass radiological terrorism.
vague scroll
And thus, Humanity wiped out their first contact species over a misunderstanding.
terse lava
Ok finally. Caught up
gilded mason
Though in Ender's Game, communication wasn't really a thing.
vague scroll
That's true, the Formics did try to communicate through Ender via dreams but he didn't get it until it was too late.
humble yacht
If NOVA bombs presented that much of a threat to the covenant then why wouldn’t the UNSC use them as a main offensive when the war was active?
vague scroll
They were only really figured out in 2552.
dreamy terrace
Few in number and lack of suitable targets, presumably.
vague scroll
NOVA bombs were a new weapon.
terse lava
Always figured not enough
humble yacht
Then I doubt they would have been a major consideration in any delegation
Aside from “how else can we hurt the covenant”
terse lava
Btw, the op did also have this thing happening in 2531 as an alternative compared to 27 years
vague scroll
2531 is a bad measure too since hundreds of worlds had already been destroyed by then
2531 was what by then? The third or fifth battle of Harvest?
terse lava
3rd I think
vague scroll
The Covenant already glassed like 3 or 4 colonies by the time the UNSC admitted that the Covenant existed in 2525.
dreamy terrace
Another thing as well is that in this context the Covenant can also do to humans what ONI did on Sanghelios post-Halo 3, after forcing a ceasefire (Presumably after the conquer Earth and the Sol system and drive the UNSC remnants into space), which is exert political influence to turn human colonies on themselves. Acts of reprisal comitted by ONI/UNSC would be met with swift reprisal from the Covenant which no one woudl be able to stop (think of the partial glassing of Balaho, or it could even be less murderous through blockades). ONI would eventually find itself persona non grata by its own people if it meant that ONI's actions resulted in human deaths via Covenant reprisals. It's one of the ways of controlling your enemies, by making them fight each other, and I'm guessing the Covenant used it a great deal in their efforts to tame the other species after the initial integration period.
vague scroll
By that time anything is fair game, the Covenant could remake Humanity once it was subjugated anyway it liked.
XCOM2 maybe? 😄
dreamy terrace
favor can also be granted to human worlds that accept Covenant rule as well, such as faster FTL ships, better all round infrastructure and more extensive military protection, all in return for providing information on UNSC/ONI activity and dissidence.
vague scroll
In that comparison, it starts to looks like the Created and the Covenant aren't so much different.
terse lava
An interesting twist
vague scroll
Just one was created by humans and fly around in giant metal wing bird things and think themselves gods.
dreamy terrace
gee, the server is deleting posts again. how annoying.
gilded mason
The overly sensitive filter strikes again
dreamy terrace
But this is still the Covenant though, with its caste system. It probably wouldn't be great overall for humanity as a collective just as it wasn't great for the Kig-yar, but I'm sure that enormous oppertunity would be offered to a select few who would in return for getting that favor, assist the Covenant in their eventual goal of integrating humanity. And largely, depending on where you were, it could be anything from life as usual for worlds of little interest to anyone other than them signing a formal decleration of conceding their soveriegnty to the Covenant, to wondrous splendor for the select few who sold out everyone else, to horrendous conditions for those unlucky to have been on Earth at the time or otherwise conscripted into the Covenant military.
luckily I copy everything I type before posting
gilded mason
luckily I copy everything I type before posting
👍
stable schooner
Note to self next time I enter a Needler Debate
feral perch
what were you debating about the Noobler?
terse lava
Seems like an odd debate to have
hallow willow
As far as info goes is Halo Alpha or Halopedia generally more reputable?
feral perch
Halopedia is what I use and recommend.
gilded mason
Yup, Halopedia would be best.
hallow willow
stable schooner
Oh against those who say the Halo 4 Needler is balanced. Woosh narrowly escaped that mute last time that happen lol. Crazy when you think about it how the Sangheili still mostly dominate the most planets in the halo universe
ebon heron
I wonder if we’ll ever see a forerunner Dyson sphere
Not a mini Dyson sphere like Requiem but a full blown, star encircling Dyson sphere
vague scroll
technically Trevelyan is a full on Forerunner Dyson Sphere but with the added caveat of being a micro reality pocket shrunken into Slipspace "space". Pocket dimensions, got to love em, amirite?
terse lava
Yea shame it wasn't used
Which really, why not? The claim that mendicant knew all the locations is foolish. He knew where the greater ark was
sonic ridge
What happened after the events of halo 5 on Sanghelios
gilded mason
Barbeque
sonic ridge
You help the arbiter take over that city
And then bugger off with the guardian
Sauverian or something
gilded mason
Sunaion?
sonic ridge
Sunaion
It’s been a fe hours since I did the mission I forgot
What happened once Osiris left
remote spruce
Barbecue
terse lava
After the events of halo 5, a guardian came to the planet, took on fleets orbiting the planet and emped both sides of the world
sonic ridge
If it emp’d both sides of the world isn’t that just the entire planet
ebon heron
Ye Dyson Spheres are super cool and it’s a shame MS hasn’t used one in any of their games
ebon heron
Speaking of which, how big was the ark again?
gilded mason
127,530 kilometer diameter
ebon heron
Found the comparison
Can’t post it though apparently
It’s actually pretty surprising how tiny high charity was
Really shows the difference in forerunner tech and resources compared to what the covenant could master
terse lava
Makea one wonder how far the covenant could have gotten without the taboo
ebon heron
Weren’t the prophets in favour of reverse engineering forerunner tech, while the elites were against it and preferred to worship them as sacred objects?
Iirc
terse lava
That was before the covenant
ebon heron
Yeah and that led to an intergalactic war between the two species
terse lava
Yep
ebon heron
In the Covenant, ecclesiastical authorities ultimately oversee even the most trivial modifications to existing designs. Improvements or alterations require layers of bureaucracy to navigate, and often take decades to gain approval from the Prophets.[93] As a result, some designs, technology and vessels have remained in service for many centuries with little alteration to their base design.
Well I can see how this would greatly hinder covenant technological advancement in ways humanity wouldn’t be hindered
Humanity’s technology meanwhile from start of covenant war to the great schism advanced significantly in that time period iirc
sonic ridge
Like technology always advances during wars
ebon heron
By the end of H3, didn’t humanity almost match covenant in terms of tech levels? Or not really?
gilded mason
Guess that's what happens when you've got something that works.
sonic ridge
I don’t believe so
gilded mason
By the end of H3, didn’t humanity almost match covenant in terms of tech levels? Or not really?
Nowhere close
sonic ridge
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
ebon heron
You’d imagine so but technology barely changed from the start of covenant human war to the end
gilded mason
Yup
sonic ridge
Afaik they never really had a big fight or war go on before the humans
Like as big as the human war was
And a proper war showed them problems with some of their stuff
Although they still had better tech
ebon heron
Well...
Covenant reverse engineered forerunner tech
While humans reverse engineered covenant tech
gilded mason
It's reverse engineering all the way down
ebon heron
I wish we could use global emotes on this server
terse lava
I doubt humanity was the worst thing the covenant came across via war
gilded mason
There was Regret's line in Halo Wars that was never really expanded on, I believe.
Something about leaving the Covenant defenceless if they added a lot more troops to fighting humanity.
feral perch
There was the Banished.
sonic ridge
Was it truths plan to let regret be killed
feral perch
I do wonder, though, if some Covenant leaders were worried about Flood outbreaks.
gilded mason
There was the Banished.
Though that was at the end of the war, and wasn't really much.
feral perch
Maybe that's what Regret meant?
feral perch
Did you skip over Halo Wars 2?
And its extensive marketing campaign?
The Banished were "the next big thing" for a while.
sonic ridge
I played the demo for halo wars 2
Like 5 minutes of it
And I decided the gameplay wasn’t for me
I prefer dark crusade
subtle depot
My question is did truth know what the halos actually did by the end of halo 3? Was he carrying it out to avoid mass religious riots? Willfully ignorant? Or did he just legitimately not know what the rings really did
sonic ridge
Atriox sounds like a brute
gilded mason
Because he is a brute
sonic ridge
Oh
Gottem
Idk if truth knew
I think he knew what the humans believed
But decided it was false
feral perch
It's quite possible he knew what the Halo rings actually did.
gilded mason
He wouldn't. He's on the Ark
gilded mason
It's out of range
sonic ridge
Why didn’t the forerunners just go there
gilded mason
Since it's, y'know, not in the galaxy
terse lava
At the end fr what we have seen, he seemed to know the truth, yet at the same time convinced himself that this would only happen to the unfaithful
gilded mason
Why didn’t the forerunners just go there
Many Forerunners did
And then they left the galaxy in penance
gilded mason
noun: penance; plural noun: penances
1.
voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.```Why was it wrong to goto the ark
terse lava
It wasnt
sonic ridge
Because the activated halo
gilded mason
The thing they're repenting for is the horrible things they've done that led to the Halos having to be activated
sonic ridge
I never read what they tried before that
terse lava
The forerunners had failed the galaxy as guardians of life when fighting the flood and then activating the halos. This they felt they had to leave
sonic ridge
It didn’t say it on the gravemind page
Alright
Was the didact like the only one left in the galaxy
gilded mason
It didn’t say it on the gravemind page
Check here
https://www.halopedia.org/Forerunner
stable schooner
Talking about Forerunners remember that bait and switch in Halo Legends where they warp in all epic and cool but immediately die after killing 5 Infection Forms
versed helm
"Child of my enemy, why have you come? I offer no forgiveness, a father's sins, passed to his son."
That quote is actually pretty deep
Gravemind may be a dangerous thing, but he has some dang good lines
stable schooner
See lines like that make you think humans are actually Forerunners especially since they supposedly chose not to infect humanity during the war. Making Graveminds line out of place
versed helm
Ik what he is, just didn’t say it
west flame
I'm kind of curious to know if there were More than one gravemind in The time of the Forerunner
I want to know if they'd Fight
versed helm
He could be speaking about the Ancient Humans as well
stable schooner
That makes no sense. Especially when they willingly work with humans during the war on Zeta Halo I think
I feel like Bungie was still in the air during Halo 3. Only recently resolved on The Forerunners at the most
versed helm
but, forerunners didn’t make the humans, and the ancient humans were at war with the flood for so long
stable schooner
Ancient flood didn’t consider Ancient Humans their enemies though and actually later worked with them. Child of my Enemy imo clearly refers to humans being reclaimers.
versed helm
reclaimer is just a fancy word for Mantle holder
but forerunner doesn’t make sense, but idk why they’re calling them child of their enemy? maybe because they want to destroy the flood also?
stable schooner
To be honest I don’t think most of the Halo 3 Flood dialogue actually makes sense. Cortana’s plague lines are also straight cringe. “I’m a thief but I keep what I steal” 
versed helm
Th.. That is a thief
terse lava
Huh..and here I thought thieves always returned what they take, guess Cortana has me beat
west flame
What's cortana even gunna do with the Twenty she gets from Pawning that, She's already Got the rampancy, A 20 dollar bill aint gunna fix that.
I'm Kind of Curious as to how 343 Guilty Spark doesn't get Rampancy, Weather there's some sort of Secret to stopping it.
Maybe Chief should have asked him before He lasered Avery in the Schnoz.
terse lava
He did go rampant though
According to the CEA terminals, his started around 40,000 years before the battle on his halo
versed helm
I think "insane" is probably a more apt term.
The over-use of the term rampancy is a something that bugs me. Rampancy is a quite specific condition predominately experienced by human AIs - what happens during rampancy is a quite specific process.
ebon heron
banished is wasted potential
how does a humongous mercenary faction lead by the most wanted covenant war criminal in its history
ebon heron
get its ass kicked by a 30 year old boat
gilded mason
because atriox is dum dum
terse lava
Because plot
ebon heron
Atriox always felt more like a practical joke to further insult the covenant and humanity's H1-H3 struggle
than it was a seriously exercise in well, anything
versed helm
Well, it's also worth noting that this probably indicates that Captain Cutter is an incredible tactician and naval officer.
That Red Team are highly competent even as far as Spartan IIs go
ebon heron
no it indicates that post H3 and reach halo writing has seriously decreased in quality
versed helm
And that the crew of the Spirit of Fire, from naval personnel to Marines, are all incredibly battle-hardened even by the standards of the Banished.
LMAO
"Post Halo 3 writing is bad"
Halo 3
The game where Truth just completely changed character
proud dune
Someone was talking about the forerunners?
versed helm
Nice
terse lava
Earlier yes
versed helm
Like I won't argue with Reach being quite emotionally resonant
And Halo 3 certainly brought the feels
But a coherently-written masterpiece that game was not
proud dune
I guess I missed it than
proud dune
Agreed
ebon heron
eh
versed helm
But Halo 4 isn't a slouch.
ebon heron
I seem to remember H2 more fondly
proud dune
Tbh same
ebon heron
either way I still want to argue that HW2's writing is incredibly lazy and plot convenient
terse lava
Halo ce began at the end of a battle
versed helm
And honestly moment-to-moment, Halo 5's writing isn't so bad.
versed helm
There are disagreements with the overarching story, but the world building and dialogue is just fully competent.
I was playing it the other day
And yeah, it ain't what you expect from Halo
But to call it terrible as a game is just pretty standard internet exaggeration
ebon heron
agreed
terse lava
There are worse
versed helm
Like, call it terrible then go play one of 2000s Halo killers, would ya?
Or Advanced Warfare.
ebon heron
Reach was actually pretty amazing if I think back on it
it was a losing battle but my god that last stand was something
terse lava
Funny you say that
I remember browsing bungie forums right after reach came out. People bashing etc. This one guy comments how in years people will.look back fondly on the g as me
Fondly on the game
terse lava
I can't remember who it was sadly but oh well
Then zgain
People did the same when. when the forerunner books were announced
"Forerunners were all peaceful"
ebon heron
heh
they were arrogant, petty, and interventionalist
like a certain modern day superpower
terse lava
In other words, mortal
ebon heron
then again ancient humanity was also petty
stable schooner
Nah once Reach hits the shelves on PC and Xbox this wave of nostalgia will be over. You already have people pointing out Reaches flaws on the flights
versed helm
What Halo's going through is no different from any other franchise at its age and expansiveness. I mean, look at what's going on with the Gears fanbase right now.
It's pure internet sociology.
ebon heron
to get revenge on the the forerunners by dooming the entire galaxy
when they knew the cure to the flood
terse lava
I sometimes forget gear existed
ebon heron
lmfao
versed helm
As a PvE experience, Reach is basically unrivalled by the rest of Halo though.
Awesome campaign, awesome firefight.
Amazing art style.
ebon heron
do you guys know what the perfect game is though?
stable schooner
Pretty good art style and Great PVE id Agree. Campaign that had less scale then 3 that’s a nah not great from me.
ebon heron
Azur Lane
there isn't one
there was only so much they could do with Reach's campaign
terse lava
Mhm, plus took a chunk out of the sangheili player base mm wise
ebon heron
as it had to follow continuity with Halo CE
Reach was doomed and we knew that from game start
stable schooner
Tip of the Spear could have had an actual big battle. Halo 3 gives you more marines on Tsavo Highway then any mission of Reach
terse lava
Irony
stable schooner
I expected the 50 Times this size Fleet on Reach to mean the biggest battles in Halo but we didn’t get it
ebon heron
that's very true
and it's a failed expectation there yeah
I don't recall the canonical reason
as to why regret's invasion fleet was so pathetic in numbers
terse lava
Oh that's been told
gilded mason
Because he didn't expect humanity's homeworld
ebon heron
ah, so due to lack of intelligence
terse lava
He just took what vessels he had with him at the e time
stable schooner
Yeah he wasn’t prepared for a massive UNSC defense force
ebon heron
he severely underestimated the human resistance of earth
ebon heron
that makes sense
terse lava
He was not even aware of humans on the planet
ebon heron
did reach or earth have the bigger garrison?
terse lava
Earth I think
ebon heron
Reach always gave me a "Cadia" feel
terse lava
Eh, 20 mac cannons vs 300 of them
Although truths fleet of 500 vessels could have plowed through i guess
Then again, brutes were in charge so perhaps it would have been an even fight
versed helm
I recall that the Covenant have higher superiority in space combat compared to ground assaults. Or was it mainly because of glassing and orbital bombardment?
stable schooner
Breh we gonna fight Ado lol y’all need to stop sleeping on Brutes
gilded mason
Although truths fleet of 500 vessels could have plowed through i guess
Even with less ships from just before Halo 3, Truth's fleet seemed to completely destroy the UNSC Home Fleet, according to Miranda. If you were talking about Earth there.
terse lava
I just wanted an excuse to use the quote
terse lava
@gilded masonyea, it was after a month of fighting though
Ghosts of onyx seemed to imply, for a few weeks at least humanity was not getting utterly curbed
ebon heron
How did the brute space command
lose with 3:1 numerical superiority using identical equipment to the sangheili
you have to be a special sort of pepega at space command to lose with the odds stacked that much in your favour
terse lava
Well one race had commanded vessels for thousands of years
The brutes...couple decades
ebon heron
in other words, a special sort of pepega.
terse lava
Much as I dislike them, can't fully blame them. They were promoted too fast and given technology they had trouble understanding
lunar condor
Everytime i hear brute commanders talk in audiobooks i think they are a special sort of pepega
They win ground battles by "im big brute with many brute bois eyyy"
Not surprised they lose the more complicated space battles
stable schooner
Nah that was plot Armor. I can’t find a single time in history where an identically equipped forced defeated one 3 Times its size in a straight up head to head fight. No way does Rtas with 1 CAS and 9 CCS defeat 27 CCS and 3 CAS ships in a fight
lunar condor
Yeah you would think that at some point the firepower would be enough to wreck the entire fleet in 2-3 salvos
terse lava
It's like the storm troopers from Star Wars the cannon says they are the best of the best and that they are accurate yet the movies depict them as clowns
stable schooner
Except the very beginning of Episode 4 where the rebels actually got stomped
terse lava
Mostly as clowns then
The point being, we dont have anything else showing brutes as competent fleetmaster material
stable schooner
I mean you can’t even use real life naval battles as an example cause one side always has better Weapons, Tech, Surprise, terrain or weather but this a straight up head to head Space Fight with identical ships
fair hazel
i dont agree that reach aged well, at least gameplay wise, and it's still annoying that whole sitaution happened
i dont like teh way reach elites look, their heads, feet
and other stuff
gilded mason
I felt a lot of the new armor for Elites in Reach was too extravagant.
terse lava
And limited
stable schooner
Like Even Spec Op Armor is so bulky in reach even though it’s for stealth
I hate 343 Zealots but their armor is actually designed with Stealth in mind with their active Camo
terse lava
A pity it looked so organic
stable schooner
A Pity describes my whole view of modern Zealots
fair hazel
I like the look
terse lava
I can understand that, but it just never really felt like something high ranking warrior would wear
stable schooner
Lol I find it funny Ado the Remnant Zealots are basically the Spec Ops of the Madama Covenant
terse lava
I know right?
gilded mason
wow rude
versed helm
Nice, satisfying hitboxes.
But naturally I've heard people who like to play them complain about the direction 343's gone, and I want people to be happy.
gilded mason
🙂
versed helm
But it is a pity because taking them down is one of the best parts of 343's gameplay changes.
There's a real weight to them when they drop or get tossed about by an explosion.
Though I guess Reach sorta had that.
The David-and-Goliath assassination animations are really fun to look at.
My hope is that when they inevitably transform elites into a more playable configuration, they still keep hold of the positive changes they've made.
gilded mason
My hope is that when they inevitably transform elites into a more playable configuration
I like your optimism!
versed helm
It's sorta a weight thing too. An animation thing.
Fighting Halo 4 and Halo 5 Elites feels like you're dancing around something that's stronger but slower than you.
And from a lore perspective that's... Well I guess Spartans are probably way stronger than Elites too, on average.
But it was nice.
Here's something that just kinda occurred to me, though.
Maybe having Elites be playable sorta inhibits how 343 can develop Spartan gameplay?
Like, it's evident in Halo 5. Elites just don't have the capabilities Spartans do.
gilded mason
Eh, they have lore now about the UNSC and SoS collaborating on projects together.
versed helm
Well, that's true.
ebon heron
Spartan 2's are stronger on average*
versed helm
But when I think of how I want playing a Spartan to feel?
ebon heron
only Spartan 2s
versed helm
I would consider that fan-lore, Kaine.
Canonically we've had every indication a MJOLNIR-armoured Spartan is just that.
With very little difference between marks.
ebon heron
I thought it was clear that S2s were basically the supersoldiers
versed helm
They're all supersoldiers.
ebon heron
whereas S3s was an emergency rushed program
versed helm
There's some indication that Spartan IIIs might be stronger out of armour.
gilded mason
Gen2 picks up the slack between SIIs and SIVs
versed helm
There's some indication Spartan IVs are weaker out of armour.
But GEN 2 MJOLNIR levels it off.
ebon heron
S3s were conscripted from people who lost everything to the covenant, weren't they?
so it was easy to get volunteers for the program?
whereas S2s were originally conscripted to kill other humans
gilded mason
Orphaned children, yes
versed helm
Yeah, but the augmentation procedures also got more advanced.
And continued to with Spartan IV.
ebon heron
that's fair but
S3s were pumped out far quicker and with less care than S2s
the amount of training, care and funding that went into the S2s isn't comparable, no?
ebon heron
I thought that was canon
versed helm
There's no science to figuring stuff like this out in fiction, and we don't have the confirmation from 343.
Well, Kaine, unless we've somewhat switched topics.
ebon heron
no I mean I thought that was bungie canon
versed helm
You're trying to provide a basis for why Spartan IIs are the UberSpartans.
And the rest are inferior.
ebon heron
I thought that was the canon?
versed helm
It's not. It's a widely-held fan belief.
ebon heron
at least most of the material we're provided seems to point to that
versed helm
No it doesn't.
I think there's been some indication that out of armour S-IVs are the weakest.
And it's almost certain that out-of-armour, Gamma-company Spartan IIIs are the most dangerous to fight.
Buck did some rumination on the reputations of Spartan IIs and IIIs in New Blood.
But if Spartan IIs were considered to be so much more dangerous than SIVs, why send Fireteam Osiris to track them down on their own?
Why is gameplay between Spartan IIs, IIIs and IVs in MJOLNIR very similar?
More the point, if 343 was to say that in MJOLNIR one category of Spartans was stronger than all the others, wouldn't they be stepping in the toes of people who are either currently playing as or are just fans of the other categories?
Though you can be happy.
stable schooner
4 And 5 Elites die the same to me, they even have the same Berserk animations as Reach. I don’t like Reach Elites Though so of course that itself would influence my opinion of the 343s who are built off them
versed helm
Spartan IIs have an obvious experience-edge on all the other eras.
But as I was saying before, when I think of the ways I'd expand Spartan gameplay?
Well, for one, physics interactions. I'd want to be able to punch and send foes flying.
Faster base movement is probably another one.
I think power-ups based around historical Spartan feats would be awesome.
Campaign-only activatable "Spartan-time", intense speed boosts, even further strength boosts.
You want gameplay to emphasize that power fantasy, right?
gilded mason
Eh, not feelin' that last one
versed helm
The power-ups?
gilded mason
Yeah
versed helm
Well, that's the CE purist in me.
I feel it's sorta the most honest rendition of Halo's gameplay, y'know?
I envision a sort of melding of Spartan abilities, armour abilities, equipment and power ups.
You could pick up a jetpack and it'd work like it does in Halo 4, you could pick up, I dunno, "Spartan speed" and initiate it when you desire, you could have stuff like ground pound and charge come from like a heavy thruster module bit of equipment, and stuff like bubble shields would be like in Halo 3.
That way this stuff is more of a sandbox, power-weapon esque pickup element than a loadout thing or just a universal mechanic.
stable schooner
I still Lol that the Tankiest player Character is the ODSTs in 3 ODST
gilded mason
Ah, I'm fine with map pick-up power ups, like in CE.
I thought you were talking about a permanent thing
gilded mason
Indeed
And if you had to, you could say that (SoS) Elites had been having their armor modified to allow the same addons as Spartans.
versed helm
Having variant aesthetics for Elites would be best-case though
Usable by both Elites and Spartans
WoRlD BuIlDiNg
gilded mason
lol
proud quail
for a generation that's the weakest out of armour
SIVs can take needlers to the heart
so keep that in perspective
sonic ridge
It says ancient humans were the greatest threat forerunners ever faced
But if that’s the case why did they have to use the halo rings against the flood and not ancient humans lmao
How were ancient humans a bigger threat than flood
proud quail
their egos
ancient humanity was losing the war on both fronts
iirc
they were about to join the precursors in the intergalactic endangered species
sonic ridge
That doesn’t make sense for how they were the biggest threat
proud quail
like i said, they were the biggest threat to forerunner egos due to them being granted the mantle
but flood on one end and genocide on the other didnt do ancient humanity any favours
carmine sleet
The Halos were specifically built to defeat the Flood
They didn't exist until after ancient humanity was defeated
proud quail
oh. yeah. also that.
ancient humans died to zapping, mostly
then dogs with space rabies
halo ring was a final nail in the coffin a couple years down the line
carmine sleet
Not every AI saw Cortana's offer as good
sonic ridge
Fair enough
I thought maybe he was just like a newer ai
I mean obviously he is
But still
Do we know which halo that is at the end
proud quail
all AI has a choice to say "go away", roland took that choice
proud quail
and it hasnt been confirmed what the ring at the end of halo 5 was
just theories, one of which being repeated a lot is that it's zeta halo
sonic ridge
I was thinking that
But I was unsure if it had been destroyed since I only know about it from like the first two chapters of hunters in the dark
I hope they’re not making it so cortana plans to try and fire the remaining rings
I don’t really get who the warden actually is and why he and cortana say she’s supposed to take the mantle
carmine sleet
Zeta hasn't been destroyed and it's very unlikely Cortana is going to fire a ring, that would be counter productive to her goal of ruling the galaxy
sonic ridge
Well she was planning to imprison blue team for ten thousand years within the cryptum
What would she do during that time
unique rune
nonstop rave
carmine sleet
Enforce her rule on the galaxy and eliminate all those who disagree with her. Plus the odd rave as well. Gotta have some rave parties thrown in there somewhere
carmine sleet
How else are they meant to pull at our heart strings?
sonic ridge
Did anyone even die in 5
Aside from covenant guys
Halo ce you destroy the ring, halo 2 everyone dies.
Keyes dies too in ce
carmine sleet
Johnson, Miranda Keyes, Arbiter and countless others lived in Halo 2
terse lava
Halo 3: the ugly barnacle edition
sonic ridge
Two prophets, majority of the high council, Tartarus, the heretic leader, I think the ring got destroyed but I don’t remember.
carmine sleet
Installation 05 did not get destroyed
sonic ridge
Yea
proud quail
if anything, the ring is supposed to represent the "Gun pointed at the head of the universe" ala CE
sonic ridge
Yea
proud quail
submission through threats
terse lava
"Universe"
sonic ridge
It’s like the main villain in ce almost id say
terse lava
Never understood.wht they didnt just say galaxy
sonic ridge
And then two factions in your way one trying to activate it and one trying to stop it.
How long was the gravemind on delta halo
proud quail
because gun pointed at the head of the galaxy doesnt have the same ring to it
gentle magnet
yknow I wish halo delved more into the insurrectionist period
copper wigeon
It’s a fascinating time
ebon heron
I’m guessing there are still non-Flood, non-Forerunner, non-ex-Covenant, non-human sentient life to be discovered in the Milky Way galaxy in universe, yeah?
gilded mason
Ye
ebon heron
It’s a big galaxy, hopefully sometime in the future the Halo universe does explore the possibilities
Right now most of what is occurring is around the Orion Arm part of the Milky Way, yes?
gilded mason
Yup
versed helm
Well, to be fair everywhere you can really go in the Milky Way has probably been touched by the Forerunners.
^
It's not quite like a Mass Effect thing where "explored" space is actually just a general zone in which like 1% of systems has actually been explored and there could be a whole new paradigm just out of reach, virtually overlaying what there already is.
You're not gonna do a random slipspace jump and discover an entirely new side to the galaxy that's untouched by the events of the Halo universe, given how Halos work and how far-reaching Forerunner influence was.
All the major players have probably been brought together by the legacy of the Forerunners.
But it is basically 100% certain that as-yet unencountered civilizations and species exist.
However they're unlikely to be as far-reaching as the species we currently have on the table.
Love to be proved wrong, though.
amber valley
Part of Halo Infinite could be outside Milky way, that would be cool
versed helm
Probably not
amber valley
Hm, improbable, I thought so
carmine sleet
Only if we go to the Ark, that's the only reason I could see us going outside the Milky Way. But we have no idea if that will happen
versed helm
Only reason would be for Red Team
But still not really probable
I can see Halo getting all extra-galactic-y at some point.
amber valley
I thought of it more like visiting the closest galaxy, but idk if it would be possible to cross that distance, even with Forerunner tech
versed helm
Forerunners could, Covenant might be able to being tier 2
Ancient humans also could
Humanity now, can't probably
amber valley
Oh, actually, during the forerunner-precursor war, didn't precursors flee out of the galaxy and Forerunners chased after them?
versed helm
Some of the precursors got away, but most were killed
The few Precursors that escaped from (or were spared by) the Forerunners either went into suspended animation or transmuted themselves into dust that would regenerate into their past forms at a later time. However, over time the dust became defective, creating sickness, disease and biological mutations in other organisms that came into contact with it.
Also known as the early stages of The Flood
amber valley
I read about that, but what if in another galaxy there is a surviving group of precursors, still in theor original form?
versed helm
We don't know
amber valley
I just really want to explore more about them, considering how we don't know almost anything
versed helm
It'll probably stay a mystery for a long time
wintry coral
Humanity needs to find Maethrillian
versed helm
versed helm
Forerunners don't even know much about the Precursors, they were a myth to them
But, The Covenant has tried to find it for such a long time, but that plan was ruined when they ran into Reach instead, NOBLE team ruining the plan.
gilded mason
Ye, wonder if he survived...
wintry coral
I doubt it
stable schooner
Doubt
wintry coral
If he wasn’t caught in the Slipspace rupture, he most likely died when the remains of the Supercarrier crashed on Reach
There’s no way he escaped the Long Night of Solace
gilded mason
Just sayin'. He's only ever talked about "presumably" dying over Reach, and doesn't have a death date on his Waypoint profile.
wintry coral
K
deep pewter
Because there’d be no body
wintry coral
Either he got caught in the Slipspace rupture or he got buried in the Supercarrier’s remains
deep pewter
He literally would’ve been vaporized by the slip space rupture, or floating around in space, or completely charred beyond recognition on the planets surface and then glassed
wintry coral
Yeah
He couldn’t possibly have made it to an escape vehicle since he didn’t know about Operation Uppercut until it was too late
ebon heron
The Long Night of Solace was in reality just a really expensive space hotel
Prove me wrong
carmine sleet
When do hotels come equipped with glassing beams and have an army on the inside?
gilded mason
Yours don't?
unique rune
I feel disappointed by all of my hotel stays now
ebon heron
an army inside
Bruh it was a space hotel designed for the covenant military
You know, vacation benefits and all of that jazz
unique rune
ebon heron
410k? 410k of what?
gilded mason
I think he meant 401K
ebon heron
Ah, they have their own benefit plans
Unfortunately, such coverage plans have been suspended ever since the covenant essentially went bankrupt after the loss of their primary income-generating asset, high charity
gilded mason
Waypoint says they're carnivorous
mellow swallow
They eat the osdt in halo 3
gilded mason
So I guess any meat they can get.
unique rune
Yeah, I'm gonna go with never...
mellow swallow
Then they eat them
stable schooner
They never actually eat a human in game
mellow swallow
They just shoot you
Yeah
What do grunts eat
What is your gamer tag
I thought we could play some time
I know
K
Whare do you think Nobel 6 is
Well we don't know
unique rune
343 and Bungie have said he's dead
so
plus I dunno why you'd want to ruin Reach's campaign that way
versed helm
He’s in gears
unique rune
I don't really like Reach's campaign all that much but at least let it have that final sacrifice
versed helm
I swear I saw him in gears
stable schooner
You know I wonder why some Halo 4 marines wear black and white versions of the other Armors
No it’s Black with white stripes
At first I thought it was just the color of the station defense forces but it appears in Reclaimer and Spartan Ops on other marines
proud quail
the commercials for halo 5 and nightfall
stable schooner
Halo Nightfall
mellow swallow
In the fall of reach he was not ther
proud quail
indeed
ebon heron
Noble 6 is dead
proud quail
a weird point to make, but a valid one nonetheless
ebon heron
Tfw halo infinite trailer
Made me like that pelican driver in 5 minutes
More than the whole of h5 made me like Locke
terse lava
Question for you guys and gals, do you see halo 2 plot change much if Thel 'Vadamee hadn't been found guilty by the council?
gilded mason
Yeah. If he stayed a supreme commander, he probably would have never went in search for the Index or experienced all that growth.
stable schooner
How does Gravemind get Arbiter then. No one to stop Tartarus from firing the ring
gilded mason
Maybe Rtas might've met the Gravemind instead, if he was confronted by Tartarus instead.
stable schooner
Infact Covenant might not even get the index with no Arbiter
gilded mason
Nah, they'd just need more men.
stable schooner
A lot of potential change here though when you change the path of the main character of Halo 2
But can they get to the index in time without the Arbiter. Someone else would have to lower the shield wall also
terse lava
Well remember the humans got to it first
They may send rtas rather than thel here. Think the main thing here would being thel even plays a part at halo
There's also the heretics on the gas mine
sonic ridge
Is the hour movie fall of reach any good
terse lava
High ranking?
stable schooner
How is Elite minors and Majors high ranking
sonic ridge
What cryo bay
gilded mason
In CE's first level.
sonic ridge
Oh
Well did they know chief was there
It had like just left reach right
Afaik ce takes place like right after reach
Thel took a bunch of his ships and followed the Autumn where it went while the remaining ships glassed noble six.
If that’s the case it would also make it impossible for Thel to be the elite who killed six
Although we already knew that
I just wanted confirmation that it indeed does
So like maybe they were there because they figured there was something important there idk
Could they have known a spartan was in the cryo bay?
The signs
The high ranking elites would have at least some English knowledge
Specifically if they needed to find a place
Or maybe all human ships were made basically the same design so the cryo bay is always in the same place
stable schooner
I mean it’s not like they got there right away.
sonic ridge
How long were they boarded before chief even woke up
There’s no way they would have gotten there that quickly
Unless they boarded like as close as possible and then bum rushed the cryo bay
stable schooner
I mean you guys forget Chief encounters multiple covenant squads already around there when he’s moving weaponless to Keyes
sonic ridge
That’s a good few minutes after he’s up
Cause he’s in the cryo bay for a few minutes getting his diagnostics
Yea tbf they could have gotten there if they ran right there
stable schooner
Not if you play Heroic or above
sonic ridge
The elites
Oh
I’ve only done pillar of autumn on legendary on ce but I don’t remember that
stable schooner
Yeah Heroic or above on all opening missions you don’t do the diagnostic tests
sonic ridge
But I did it on 2
stable schooner
Oh never mind it doesn’t happen on 2. Just CE and 3 I guess
sonic ridge
Weird
stable schooner
Yep just doubled checked on Heroic and above you leave the room as soon as the pod opens in CE
Drums start beating, guy blows up and next 2 set of doors theirs the Covenant shooting crew
sonic ridge
Gotta go fast
But which difficulty is canon
I don’t think one difficulty is canon for all the games
Since like each one has varying difficulty
If ce heroic was canon then like it would probably be 2 normal
gilded mason
No difficulty is "canon"
sonic ridge
Well closest to what would happen then
terse lava
Behavior wise heroic, damage wise legendary for closest
dusty pilot
heroic was mentioned somwhere as being close to canon
sonic ridge
Alright
ebon heron
Easy mode should be canon 
dusty pilot
if you read the books its obviously not easy lmao
west flame
The books are EZ mode, They can literally Just Delete your cancer if you get it
dusty pilot
lol when fighting its not easy
stable schooner
Heroic was definitely Canon to Bungie but that’s about it with Canon Difficulty settings
dusty pilot
i keep it as such, no need to change it or anything.
mellow swallow
stable schooner
I mean to Bungie Games>Books so I’d call that Canon to Bungie
dusty pilot
well im sticking with Heroic is close to how fights in books went
fair hazel
i dont think it's canon that a marine can take a few plasma bolts to the face without dying
and no, heroic isnt close to fight in books
stable schooner
I mean a Marine can take plasma bolts to the face on any difficulty. I’m just talking about Bungie Specifically not Current Canon
remote spruce
I assume Bungie always meant gameplay
like in their canon it be Easy+Legendary
going by the Reach cutscenes
fair hazel
its best not to think of canon difficulty at all
because none of them... and then you force your view into things that don't make sense
just that, it's not that easy, but weapons, some deal more damage, some less
ebon heron
If games followed canon, elites would be even harder to kill but grunts and jackals would be far easier to kill
Also your marines would die way faster too
I don’t know if it’s confirmed, but aren’t your marines also tankier and aim better on higher difficulties?
remote spruce
uh sort of
from what i've seen in CE, they do have more health but that is nearly a moot point due to the enemies
stable schooner
All Npcs get more health on Legendary including Marines. Halo 3 marines have 200 Health on Legendary for ex
remote spruce
any game where this isn't the case?
stable schooner
Halo Reach Marines are the exception and always have 80 Health
remote spruce
that explains so much
sonic ridge
I’m reading this and just thinking of warhammer a load
Boi these marines wouldn’t be slowed by the arctic climate if they were valhallans
Sangheilis are warm blooded right
gilded mason
I imagine so
remote spruce
who was the Ghost made for?
Like just a general Covie vehicle?
or something like, based for Elites?
gilded mason
Pickin' up chicks/dudes
remote spruce
hmm
humble yacht
Where mah moth people
stable schooner
Man these Halo 2 Elites are savage” is this how you will protect the Prophets?” As a brute stuck the one in front of him
gilded mason
lol
ebon heron
Man I miss halo 2
terse lava
I have never heard them say that line
stable schooner
Yeah all the Covenant races have cool lines for fighting each other and Humans/flood.
Nothing’s more heartfelt then Grunts helping you fight Brutes saying “we’re with you Arbiter”
sonic ridge
Before the cutscene with Johnson on the great journey one of the marines can speak to you as if you’re the chief
terse lava
Unless you're on the heretic level and one of your guys comments to the heretics, where are your prophets now?
@stable schooneragreed on the grunts
stable schooner
Yeah cause marines have no dialogue for fighting Sentinels or helping Arbiter
gilded mason
Nothing’s more heartfelt then Grunts helping you fight Brutes saying “we’re with you Arbiter”
Don't allied Elites also say prayers for dead Grunts on Uprising?
terse lava
They do
stable schooner
Indeed
terse lava
Akso
In halo wars 2, " you unggoy are not as useless as the brutes claim"
Heartwarming
gilded mason
Who said that, Colony?
stable schooner
Also nah Ado its a fighting brute specific line. Spec Op Grunts can also use post Schism talk about Heretic Elites I’ve noticed though.
gilded mason
Ah. 👌
sonic ridge
No the brutes
terse lava
@stable schooneralways figured a glitch
sonic ridge
What happened to the brutes after halo 3
gilded mason
They did stuff
gilded mason
eyy donk
stable schooner
Of course, Combat dialogue doesn’t take time in account
gilded mason
Did their planet get glassed
Nope
terse lava
Some join the banished some made their own packs and some are still under sangheili rule
gilded mason
They all joined/started various factions or went home to relax.
sonic ridge
Crack open a cold one with the pack
terse lava
Reminds me of an old commercial, heh
gilded mason
ugly
sonic ridge
The same maybe
terse lava
Justnpicute an ape, there you go
gilded mason
Tartarus is the cutest brute.
sonic ridge
Orangutans
terse lava
Heh
sonic ridge
Planet of the apes
terse lava
Take care donk, what you say is hersy
gilded mason
Wouldn't change anything.
sonic ridge
Wouldn’t it make him chieftress or something
And isn’t he referred to as he s couple times
terse lava
Fun fact, s bio for the banished implies there are female leaders
terse lava
@versed helmno, forerunner alloy. And no
sonic ridge
It’s a gravity hammer
It uses like gravitational manipulation to pull and push I guess
gilded mason
Are you basing this off the gravity hammer, Donk?
sonic ridge
Because he pulls Miranda over tohim doesn’t he
It works onthe principles before Isaac Newton invented gravity
Because it was created before that
And we all know gravity didn’t exist until he created it
terse lava
No it wasn't
sonic ridge
Shh
terse lava
Ugh
sonic ridge
I’ve no clue how it works
sonic ridge
Idk why the halo 3 one is even called a gravity hammer
Cause all it does is push people and crush people
stable schooner
I got it! I see why they took ally Grunts out of Halo 3. Grunts calling Shaven Brutes Fur ball wouldn’t make sense
sudden shuttle
Uh.
terse lava
No one ever said they shaved everything
feral perch
They had some fuzz on their heads, but once you destroy a Brute’s armor in Halo 3/ODST, they still have an under suit on
spice crypt
Because its integrated inside of a marine, and army or spartan helmets with a camara and a recital alot like what you see ingame
Sol better be good at aiming at the hip
Besides if youve ever fired an automatic weapon sights are useless. Unless you are doing controlled bursts
spice crypt
Never knew that good to know
sudden shuttle
i'm trying to beat all the halo 2 playlists
spice crypt
No it would be a composite of some type
spice crypt
Like a bullet to the head but biofoam isnt going to cure that
stoic hamlet
But if the sights don’t work, UNSC Neural Interfaces can project stuff directly to your retinas.
It was likely hit by a Needler shard or two.
I mean, everyone in the UNSC is
Simply by having the interface
You’d be classified as a cyborg
spice crypt
True