so if you lost a limb in service, strong chance they'll just pop a new one in for you rather than relieve you?
#lore-and-universe
proud quail
vague scroll
yeah
though there is plenty varieties of what sort of artificial limb that can be used to replace it
the halopedia article addresses that too
military type prosthetics don't seem to necessarily all be supersoldier grade like Kat's
gilded mason
Since I imagine only people like Kat would be able to even handle it
versed helm
I just had a thought,is it possible to survive a Halo pulse by going deep enough underground?
humble yacht
Not regular ground
versed helm
So even if you go deep enough underground,the Halo pulse can still kill you?
silent acorn
Yes.
humble yacht
It’s not standard radiation so it wouldn’t follow the same principles of radiation decay
You’d need something like a shield world to protect you
versed helm
Or be on the Lesser Ark
versed helm
So, was looking at some of the information on the guns in Halo, and the MA5 fires 308. IRL, a 308 will drop an elk or even a moose with 1 shot no prob. I know the MA5 would not be that powerful for balance reasons, but why did they not just make the gun 556, which would make much more since as far as not making the gun OP in game, and it would also mesh more easily with the lore. 308 irl is heavy, and recoils a whole lot. A soldier would shoot all the ammo they could carry on full auto in a few minutes, and would be basically un shootable on full auto for a non spartan without a giant muzzle brake
vague scroll
Ammunition is a lot more than just the caliber of the bullet. It's also the propellant composition, the shape of the bullet. There are more factors at play than just being a specific caliber. The ammunition used in the MA5 family is the 7.62x51mm NATO, possibly the same round used as NATO's standard battle rifle cartridge today.
However, its also the future, 500 years into the future. What that round is in Halo versus what it is in real life are two different things.
stable schooner
Where Looters when you need him
vague scroll
I'll fill his role for now.
We don't know how ballistics work in Halo, and we can give 343i and Bungie the benefit that they aren't gun nerds. The difference between 5.56mm NATO versus 7.62mm NATO doesn't really matter to them, its just a gun in a video game at the end of the day.
And shooting an AK or any other weapon that uses a .308 round doesn't necessarily mean that someone can't effectively control it in comparison to a .222 since that's what 5.56 NATO is.
versed helm
@vague scroll 308 and 7.62x51 are the same thing for all intents a purpases. And you can not defy Newtons laws. Unless they decided to down load the ammo, it still going to produce the same amount of recoil. With as week as the gun is in game, it would make more sense if it was 556.
I know they are not gun nerds, but they just picked a full sized round lol, and it bugs me
vague scroll
I actually can given that Newton's Laws all apply here, there's also other items your'e not considering - like the different mechanics and recoil patterns created by using a different weapon platform from a forward-loading magazine to a bullpup design.
And on that note, it is a game, how the weapon behaves in the video game has no perception on how it behaves in real life.
warm ridge
I wonder why they couldn't just clone the entire arm somehow rather then make an entire artifical arm.
I also wonder if the UNSC could've possibly saved Halsey's arm after having it get shot, rather then amputating it.
versed helm
Bullpup does not change the action of the gun, the amount of force imparted on the bullet is the same imparted on the gun and shooter, so the gun should be basically un shootable on full auto, or have a massive muzzle brake, or weight 30lbs. I know is not a huge deal, but it would have been nice if they fixed it early on.
vague scroll
@warm ridge Cloning requires time, money, and complexity. And there's a chance arms won't be accepted with the damaged nerve ends when attempting to reattach them.
warm ridge
@vague scroll You do realize the entire UNSC is capable of cloning every single organ in your body in practically..no time at all? Modifications to.
Where do you think the entire Spartan IV line up came from? Volunteers? No, they practically modify your entire body.
vague scroll
How a shooter handles a weapon can very wildly based on their experience and just by the way they hold the weapon.
versed helm
Did they ever say anywhere if the Halo Universe switched to polymer or caseless ammo completely?
warm ridge
They already have the "chance the arm won't be accepted by the brain" entirely figured out to, they do it with organs all the time. A cloned arm wouldn't be a problem, just growing it.
vague scroll
@warm ridge yes, I'm more than aware - but I'm talking about real life. Trying to transplant a body part is a lot more complicated than just stitching them back on.
There's a pretty famous case in the news right now where a face transplant isn't working out for a woman.
Because her body rejected the skin graft.
@versed helm The M7 SMG uses caseless ammunition.
The MA5 still uses brass.
warm ridge
That's in todays medical science where we don't entirely have it figured out, but the medical doctors in 2552 already has all of that figured out.
stable schooner
If we’re doing real life then it’s Bungie Game lore ignoring the books with Kats Arm.
vague scroll
@warm ridge that's quite the presumption to make
vague scroll
if scientists have it all figured out in 2552, why do military personnel still not get to have a new limb every time they lose one.
warm ridge
they have specific treatments you have to undergo to prevent "organ rejection", that pretty much includes facial tissues and more.
vague scroll
I already linked Petrosky, he never got a new leg after he lost his in the ODSTs.
he's stuck with a prosthetic because his VA benefits could never afford it.
Among other reasons that aren't explained in lore from HTT.
as it stands, the medical science of the UNSC still doesn't have all the answers.
versed helm
I mean, we could just as easily say that the VA Halo sucks just as bad as the VA of today, and he never got through the line to get a new leg lol
vague scroll
they can clone body parts but they still can't make a full human body in a practical amount of time if someone needed a full body transplant of some kind.
versed helm
As far as making a new limb, he would have to go robotic like kat, or they would have to clone him a new limb, or he would have to worry about his body rejecting the limb
and the drugs one must take for a new limb or organ to prevent rejection can be extremely hard on the immune system and body in general
vague scroll
that's my point, we don't have enough information on the lore of Halo medical science to say that something like the cutting edge medical technology of the S-IVs is publicly available to begin with
maybe its too expensive for regular people
maybe its cheap as dirt, we really don't know
warm ridge
let's see. Petrosky had a artificial limb in 2525-2530, not 2558. We don't really know anything about his "artificial limb" beyond this.
We also know his planet has incredibly poor health care, where the doctors likely don't even have fixes for artificial limbs. tl;dr poor countries today and there health care problems.
vague scroll
there you go then, we don't have an answer, so we don't know if there's a solution for him that involves cloning a limb
versed helm
@versed helm only one limb on her body is that strong, and its not going to function the same as a limb with the giant mess of complicated shoulder muscles and chest muscles attached. Also, with any kind of movement requiring more than just her arm, she is only going to be as strong as her weakest limb.
I would imagine also that cloning a limb for someone is the middle of humanity's biggest war is not a top priority.
vague scroll
@versed helm so you want to get back to rifle cartridge discussions?
warm ridge
@versed helm She got a prosthetic arm that was this strong because she was a Spartan III, to important, and instead of replacing it with another "normal arm", they opted out for a much stronger arm that allowed her to do much more
vague scroll
*Spartan-III
warm ridge
obviously I meant to put 3 III's and not 2.
warm ridge
not really that hard to forget that everyone except Jorge in Noble team are Spartan III's.
vague scroll
we don't know that Donk
versed helm
@vague scroll Yah. I find it dumb that they would have kept up with brass cases, if they actually got caseless ammo to work, or had much more advanced plastics for plastic cased ammo
vague scroll
just another item of things we don't know
well, look at why they decided to not go with caseless ammunition in real life.
versed helm
irl they didnt go with caseless because the brass case removes like 95% of the heat from firing
without the case, the barrel gets insanely hot way to fast to be useful.
We have yet to figure out how to keep guns cool without the brass case, short of a giant radiator or water jacket
vague scroll
well, that depends on the weapon really but that does sum it up kind of, since there've been multiple weapons out there that experimented with the idea of caseless ammunition.
The G11 being one example. There's also other firing methods they could have chosen for Halo.
Like an electric propellant system.
warm ridge
Spartan II's are assigned, re-assigned, and more to many different groups throughout there career. @versed helm
versed helm
all caseless failed IRL because the guns get to hot, gunpowder makes to much heat, and it heats up directly on the chamber without the brass to heat first and constanlty be changed out each time its fired.
vague scroll
As it stands Halo is a bad example of looking at how guns should be depicted, weird circumstances like the MA5B having a 60 round magazine come to mind. Or being 100 cm, the same length as a full-length M-16.
warm ridge
as far as I can tell it's either the UNSC, or ONI who controls these reassignments btw.
vague scroll
There are answers to those questions but not solutions created in the dimensions of the art design for example.
versed helm
I just wish they came up with some kind of explanation, because caseless, or at least plastic cases are the only advancement we can make IRL as far as guns are concerned. There has been 0 major improvement of modern firearms since the end of ww2 when we started using plastics.
vague scroll
The MA5B magazine is pretty thin, too thin to be a 60 round mag anyway.
warm ridge
@versed helm wrong entirely. Spartan III's were also in Blue team at one point.
vague scroll
that was a matter of convenience
warm ridge
Most of Blue Team was actually part of Red Team as well, and more.
versed helm
@vague scroll if we are being super nit picky, the mag on the MA5 should hold 20rnds, not 60
vague scroll
SPARTAN-IIs were constantly changing between units whenever it was convenient to the mission profile, their unit structures have never been static
warm ridge
I think John is the only one who has never been reassigned to another team, unless you count the fact that he "split" from the team in 2552 and lone wolfed for a while.
vague scroll
@versed helm As it stands, they could have chosen any number of other cartridges if we got down to it. Right now the US Army is experimenting with alternative cartridges like the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel.
I don't think 7.62 is a really big issue. I find the M6D and its derivatives more concerning since those are pretty much Deagles
versed helm
tbh, the best option would have been to choose a plastic cased ammo with like a 22 caliber bullet moving like 4500fps
warm ridge
@versed helm The only "caseless ammunition" that we know about in the Halo universe is the SMG, everything else isn't caseless.
vague scroll
I already told him that Person
versed helm
@warm ridge I know
vague scroll
its just a discussion of what ifs, not a discussion on actual lore me and Lethal are having here. Just hypotheticals about what they should have done in the past.
versed helm
my og question was how could the average joe shoot a 9lb rifle chambered in 308 on full auto lol.
We have a gun called a FAL irl, and its basically useless on full auto, and it uses the same ammo as the halo gun
warm ridge
which rifle does that?
versed helm
MA5
warm ridge
aka the assault rifle
actually it's rarely used full auto to my knowledge. Mostly used in burst actually.
vague scroll
The BR family is chambered in the much thicker 9.5 KURZ round
The DMR family is also chambered in the 7.62mm NATO
warm ridge
DMR and AR uses the same type of ammunition.
versed helm
I just wish when they were originally making the lore for the guns, they added some counter balance system like an ak107, or massive muzzle brakes and continuous recoil system like an aa12 or the new knights armament lmg
vague scroll
Like I said, Bungie was never military gun nuts, that kind of stuff really didn't matter to them
and it really shouldn't take away from the lore
versed helm
I really wish they gave the spartan like a giant massive shotgun. Like huge, puts 10 gauge to shame, 1 shots the crap out of an elite kind of gun
warm ridge
The gun itself is massive, you could say the size of the gun is the "counter balance system" your talking about.
versed helm
lore states the MA5 is 9 lbs
vague scroll
its okay for things like this to be imperfect, on the other hand, we could argue that smaller rounds like 5.56mm is too small and doesn't bring enough stopping power to the fight against shielded targets
versed helm
the thing with messing with lore, is we could say the made some new tech to deal with the recoil, and a new gun powder for 556, and loaded the ammo way hotter. As
vague scroll
that's the same thing as arguing that the MA5 does have redundancy systems onboard do help with managing recoil
versed helm
As far as taking down shields, all the matters is kinetic energy right? So you would want the fastest bullet possible to take advantage of velocity being more important than mass
I guess I will just imagine they were all gun nuts, and the guns have some kind of space magic inside
vague scroll
you'd want penetration power/stopping power - you don't want a high velocity round that's made from a subpar metal that just flattens out upon contacting a energy shield
versed helm
that snot how energy shields work in game.
they stop everything that hits them, unless they are over powered by to much kinetic energy, then it gets through
mass X velocity suared
velocity gets you more energy than using a bigger bullet, so a tiny fast bullet would be great,
It be less useful as far as flesh damage, but 556 works wonders on people, so imagine the same round but like %40 faster, on an elite
vague scroll
I'm not talking about in game, I'm just saying in general - gameplay isn't fundamentally canon
just the same as when characters use the MA5 in live action short series like Forward Unto Dawn and Nightfall, they're firing their rifles in burst or semi-automatic
the drop shield is a reverse engineered version of a Forerunner bubble shield, and even then, its generated by an armor module but we don't actually know how it functions.
its somehow self maintaining
That’s different, never seen that before but I believe that’s because Forerunner buildings are made from nanomachine-like particles called “Smart matter” which is essentially particles programmed by Forerunners to take up certain physical and chemical properties and forms
fair hazel
@versed helm didn’t I ask you already to switch your name in accordance to the rules and guidelines?
versed helm
why do you care,
@fair hazel "For ease of server maintenance, Unicode accents/flair is okay, full Unicode as a username is not." Last time I checked, unicode was nothing but random unintelligible symbols.
My user is completely understandable. I have not done a single thing to cause any problems in this server anyways, and you keep bringing up my user for some reason.
warm ridge
@vague scroll Forerunner buildings are all made of Hard light, at least a large majority of them are.
What does this mean?
It means any Forerunner who has the knowledge/device to turn it off, could effectively shut down an entire Forerunner building into dust and make it reappear again. Not all Forerunner buildings are made like this, but the one's we've seen in the Halo games so far indeed are.
This also means they're basically self repairing by absorbing light as well.
tl;dr fancy forerunner science stuff that isn't really explainable in the real world
versed helm
I dont think all building are made of hard light, I think a lot of the buildings in CE and H2 were forrunner and built out of normal materials
sonic ridge
Arbiter has molars in halo 5
But isn’t he from Sanghelios
Their mouths are weird in this
“Gotta be nice to everybody. Not just the food-nipple manager everybody.”
Lmao
carmine sleet
Arbiter in Halo 5 looks different to how he does canonically due to resource management, it was more efficient to reuse the base model of a Halo 5 Elite for Arbiter instead of making a new model to have him match the classic phenotype
The armour he wears, however, is canon
sonic ridge
The armour is good
How come the medics don’t appear to have different armour or like an emblem to indicate
Lmao
This elite making a recording of a poem for Palmer
Interspecies relationships are definitely a thing somewhere
carmine sleet
The Elite medics are wearing the same armour due to resource management, no point wasting resources designing and modelling unique armour for medics if they are only in one small segment of a level
fair hazel
@𝕃𝕖𝕥𝕙𝕒𝕝 𝔹𝕒𝕔𝕠𝕟#8313 it is not tyable in mobile. So no your current one isn’t ok.
sonic ridge
They should have some insignia to indicate they’re a medic
And i think with how sangheilis are it would make sense for the medic to have different armour
Could probably make a harness that is better suited to it that includes like compartments for medical stuff
Tech priests in warhammer can get a mechadendrite specifically for medical purposes, needles for injections, a small chain scalpel for cutting through clothing/amputating. Not saying they need that cause it makes no sense in halo, but it would make sense to have the medic equipped for his role.
And easier to identify for his comrades, if they even accepted help.
stoic hamlet
Sangheili don’t have medics
sudden shuttle
yeah they do
vague scroll
@warm ridge https://www.halopedia.org/Smartmatter
only recently @sudden shuttle @stoic hamlet due to the Arbiter's cultural advances
doctors and medical practitioners generally still have a stigma in Sangheili society
stoic hamlet
^
versed helm
Is there any more lore on the planet "Aleria"?
carmine sleet
Everything on Halopedia is everything we know about the planet
The armour has sensors that can detect what the weapons are
That's what fancy power armour gets you
gilded mason
doctors and medical practitioners generally still have a stigma in Sangheili society
Though that always seemed like a pretty weird addition to the canon. One they seem to hopefully be phasing out, if Silent Storm (and the Flood from long ago) is any indication.
remote spruce
doesn't help that it was added in Cole Protocol
gilded mason
Yeah
remote spruce
though i can see the logic on why Tobias added it, it's a bit too "rawr honor"
gilded mason
Though when he wrote it, he kinda didn't take into account why the culture he based it on did the practice.
remote spruce
he was always better with the human writing
feral perch
The Flood is in the realm of dubious canon. Silent Storm didn’t mention anything about medics or doctors being honorable or dishonorable, iirc. And Halo 5 reinforced the idea that was apparently introduced by Tobias Buckell, by showing that the Swords of Sanghelios were to trying to overcome that stigma.
I don’t have an issue with it. I think it helps to set the Covenant-era Sangheili apart from other cultures.
gilded mason
Silent Storm didn’t mention anything about medics or doctors being honorable or dishonorable
Either way, doctors were still used by them in the book, which means even if they did think it was dishonorable they didn't think it was a big enough deal to not use them. It really just makes no sense for them to not like medics or using doctors.
feral perch
When was that? I really don’t recall
gilded mason
There were hospital ships in the fleet in Silent Storm. And Denning confirmed Sangheili also made use of healthcare in them, since soldiers dying of wounds they recieved on the battlefield would be extremely counterproductive.
feral perch
Hm, I assumed the medical supplies were mostly for other races in the alliances. Did he tweet about the Sangheili using them?
gilded mason
Yes
feral perch
Well, that does seem to undermine what Buckell wrote.
gilded mason
He understands that Sangheili being against doctors doesn't really make sense.
feral perch
I wonder then, if it’s still canon for Sangheili Minors to commit suicide if they don’t receive a promotion during or after a military campaign.
stoic hamlet
I could see it as maybe they don’t like field doctors
stoic hamlet
But on hospital ships and stuff it’s tolerated, but not liked
gilded mason
Though perhaps they could make it so simply Vadam Keep is backwards in their practices. 😋
feral perch
That would work.
stoic hamlet
That’d be hilarious
feral perch
I mean during the Covenant War @sonic ridge
sonic ridge
They probably did
gilded mason
I wonder then, if it’s still canon for Sangheili Minors to commit suicide if they don’t receive a promotion during or after a military campaign.
What's that tidbit from?
feral perch
Halo: The Essential Visual Guide
last anchor
I kinda remember reading that elsewhere too actually
gilded mason
Ah, Halopedia sources the Encyclopedia for it.
If it wasn't mentioned elsewhere, I wonder if characterization has simply marched on.
last anchor
Probably has
brisk sorrel
Does anyone know any good Halo books that I could read?
last anchor
All of them
If there is a book with "Halo" in the title its a good book.
there's variables of "good" mind you but even the worst Halo books are better than most others
I'd rather read Glasslands than any Ice and Fire book for sure
last anchor
Probably easiest tbh, get all the details skip the weird emotinoal rollercoaster
gilded mason
Yeah
gilded mason
Three
last anchor
Three
feral perch
The Fall of Reach is the best place to start
brisk sorrel
kay
gilded mason
Yeah, I'd just say to go in release order.
gilded mason
Yep, those are the Kilo-5 books
brisk sorrel
just read the summary and man, they really be going at it. seems like an interesting trilogy
gilded mason
"Interesting" is one word for it.
brisk sorrel
im sure lol
stoic hamlet
I honestly don't think I"d have had a problem with it if Traviss didn't change Mendez's personality so much, or some scenes with Lucy in GLasslands.
last anchor
If they had left the Onyx survivors to someone else it would have been great.
Traviss, as always, works best when she doesnt have to do research. Because she doesnt do research
Also, her incipid BRITISHNESS is kind of...gratting. Especially in a series that has the UNITED NATIONS Space Command in it
Again worked fine for Gears.
Not so much for Halo
gilded mason
Didn’t Lucy punch Halsey with all her strength and all she got for it was a nosebleed or something? And then Lucy suddenly began talking again.
humble yacht
Cortana was originally written as a British character
humble yacht
It’s why she says “sod off” in CE
brisk sorrel
some of the things shed say would be less dramatic depending on the British dialect tho
lol
last anchor
Pretty much.
IMO I like the "sod off"
I always imagined Cortana just had like, a dictionary of various human insults and slurs in her memory banks.
And she pulled that one out for Spark because he sounded polite and stuffy
warm ridge
@vague scroll Smart matter is basically what I just said, hard light. "which results in the entire assembly eventually disintegrating into fine dust and hard light embers"
vague scroll
you know hard light is manipulated photons right? They're subatomic particles.
smart matter is a lot more generalized than hardlight
hardlight is essentially giving lasers physical properties, they're not an actual construction material
warm ridge
@versed helm Halo rings are made of Hard-Light, and other forms of solid matter when it's required. I'm guessing that includes "smart matter" to.
https://www.halopedia.org/Hard_light
"The Halo installations make use of hard light in their firing mechanisms,[11] in addition to using hard light as a protective structural reinforcement to stabilize and protect the rings against tidal and gravitational forces from other objects."
@vague scroll that's where your wrong
vague scroll
hard light is used as weapon material and structural bindings, that's pretty much it
warm ridge
Hard light can be used as shields, bridges, and entire structures even.
vague scroll
the Halo rings themselves are not constructed from hardlight, its actual metal
warm ridge
again..
"in addition to using hard light as a protective structural reinforcement to stabilize and protect the rings against tidal and gravitational forces from other objects."
^Halo rings.
vague scroll
yes, and that's for things like creating shielding and light bridges
warm ridge
"However, the structures on the Halo rings still employ hard light construction for practical purposes.[6]"
vague scroll
it keeps the air out and keeps the structures rigidity but its not the actual structure themselves
warm ridge
yes, beyond "bridges"
It's used in pretty important structural area's, quite often.
In fact, if this line is to say anything, only the most important structual integrity is actually made of "real matter".
"Despite its versatility, hard light construction is susceptible to power failures and as such, the most important supporting structures have to be made of actual matter. "
vague scroll
smartmatter isn't purely made of hardlight, hardlight just serves to keep the material together.
The basic definition of hard light, in real life, is that its a hypothetical material of solidified light giving light physical properties.
warm ridge
while other structures could basically be made of hard light entirely.
vague scroll
if hardlight was what all Forerunner material is constructed from, a simple EMP should turn them all to particle dust
warm ridge
I never stated "all forerunner material is constructed from hardlight"
vague scroll
and that's assuming the definition of hardlight in Halo is different from the real life definition
warm ridge
I am stating a large majority of the Forerunner material you see, is likely made of hard light.
Every single Knight you see is also made purely of hard light.
vague scroll
if that was the case, destroying Prometheans shouldn't leave behind any shrapnel
warm ridge
BTW, we don't know what type of protective measures the Forerunners have in place, EMP's don't appear to work on any Forerunner structure as it is.
vague scroll
and halo: warfleet doesn't describe the Phaetons being made entirely of hardlight, its explicit in saying smartmatter
warm ridge
they actually don't in the games, beyond leaving there weapons.
warm ridge
but they don't lol
they leave behind little bits that end up disappearing as normal hard light does.
i've watched it happen quite often with the Crawlers, and Watchers.
vague scroll
only the Knights in Halo 4 disappear into fractals, evaporating into orange light
the Watchers and Crawlers tend to explode
leaving the occasional limb piece here or there
vague scroll
those pieces are still left on the ground
warm ridge
I can probably get my XONE set up right now and show you exactly what happens on H4 MCC, or would you prefer the 360 version?
humble yacht
Knights don’t evaporate into hard light upon destruction
warm ridge
they turn into these "beacons" that the Watchers can use to fully repair them, but the beacons will disappear after a while.
humble yacht
Anything killed with forerunner weaponry of sufficient power evaporated in the same way
Including Spartans
carmine sleet
The limbs don't disappear in 4 or 5 unless shot with a binary rifle, incineration cannon or all of the projectiles from a scattershot hit the target
humble yacht
Those beacons were data streams
warm ridge
yep.
humble yacht
Data something, Cortana defines it
vague scroll
well, apparently, Tech remembers what I remember...
so, either I'm remembering right or I'm part of a mass hallucination
warm ridge
who's Tech?
humble yacht
Watcher pieces stay on the map until despawning
vague scroll
Slipstream Technican
carmine sleet
*Slipstream
warm ridge
oh
humble yacht
Unless you kill them with a scattershot or binary rifle or incineration cannon
vague scroll
sorry man 🤦
carmine sleet
Well, it makes for a change from people messing up my real name
vague scroll
oof, sorry to hear that...
I'm just really tired today so I'm missing things left and right,
warm ridge
anyways do you want me to show you what happens or @vague scroll
vague scroll
no, I've got a decent enough impression of the things exploding into limbs and then some parts sparkling off into nothing in my head
smartmatter and hardlight are not one in the same, one's an ingredient in the other, but they are not the same thing
humble yacht
There’s plenty of vids of crawlers being destroyed online
vague scroll
and yeah, youtube's got plenty of footage of Halo 4 promethean fighting
I don't need you to jump on your xbox to prove a point that's mostly about interpretation at the end of the day
humble yacht
I say let him if he wants to
vague scroll
I just don't want to get pinged in DMs over the footage, I've maintained the debate back and forth but I'm not attached to the discussion enough to get pinged about it in a separate channel since I know you guys don't enjoy image spam
humble yacht
He can post it in share your content
vague scroll
if he wants, I'm pretty locked in on my belief at this point, I don't think even his footage could change my mind on it
humble yacht
Lol
vague scroll
I'm open minded but I've been watching Youtube videos in the background and you guys have said that I'm at least not wrong when I said that the some Prometheans under certain circumstances don't dissentegrate. I might be wrong that smartmatter and hardlight are one in the same which I don't believe, but I've yet to see any conclusive evidence that its fact.
humble yacht
I don’t think hard light and smart matter are the same
vague scroll
neither do I, but I'm not sure if that's what Person's arguing but it's what I'm reading off his counterpoints
I edit Halopedia, the way the words are phrased on there can easily tint a interpretation of the universe in one way or another. I'm having to rewrite my entire depiction of the Wet Fleet in fanfiction today because CIA realized that the talk about the UNSC navy boats on Earth in Ghost of Onyx were headcanon someone slipped in there a while back and no one realized it until now.
obsidian thistle
Yea I went though all the "sources". It was a interesting assumption. But thats all it was
sonic ridge
In the level the gravemind you see the big Eiffel Tower thing in the background on the ship
What is it exactly
I’m pretty sure it’s what they dig up in halo 3
gilded mason
The Forerunner keyship.
gilded mason
Truth took it to the Ark portal on Earth to activate the portal.
It looks like a city built around it too
Yes, High Charity is a massive city.
sonic ridge
I thought high charity was the ship
gilded mason
A ship and a city.
unique rune
what in the world did I say this time
sonic ridge
Idk
gilded mason
lol
unique rune
it would seem so
gilded mason
What was the word?
unique rune
gah
gilded mason
Er, nevermind, I guess...
unique rune
okay then
can’t say the Keyship’s original Forerunner name
sonic ridge
I never noticed there was a city there cause I only completed og halo and there’s like 5 buildings
Og h2 k mean
I
I got to like the 7th mission on here and then stopped
gilded mason
There were a lot of buldings around it
Quite a few skyscapers
In the original visuals as well.
gilded mason
unique rune
I’m gonna assume it’s safe to say Spirit here
hm
how ironic that the part of the name that the bot seems to dislike is defined as “not likely to provoke dissent or offense; inoffensive, often deliberately so”
boreal bane
Can someone try Anodyne again?
gilded mason
Anodyne
boreal bane
👍
vague scroll
all particles in the known universe suffer from the concept of entrophy, or heat death
but to be more specific, the Flood is a organic organism constructed of organic materials and requires energy consumption to survive just like humans. Without bodies to maintain its existence, it will eventually decay because its not getting the energy input to fulfill its needs.
vivid oak
@versed helm The flood aren't dead, their hosts are. They're a parasite.
And really the bodies are actually living.
unique rune
It used to be dead bodies.
But as a Gravemind, it’s living Flood biomass
feral perch
Infection Forms are made from Flood Super Cell, I believe.
humble yacht
Really the only parasitic part of the flood’s life cycle is making combat forms
At advanced stages the flood transcends the need for parasitism
stable schooner
They get so advanced their like infect them nahhh, lets shoot needles at them. “The flood it has evolved” he wasn’t lying.
onyx silo
What part of a spartan makes them have increased strength? It looks like plates of metal attached to a wetsuit.
high gorge
Nani
He has augments that make him a god
His Gen 1 mark 6 makes him stronger
And so does cortana
Basically he’s unstoppable
Unless jackle snipers get involved
unique rune
Augmentations to their skeletons, connective tissue, muscles, and nervous system increase their strength, resilience, and reaction time.
On top of that, the MJOLNIR armor's components, primarily the inner, multi-layer body suit underneath the armor plating also amplifies their strength in addition to providing protection.
versed helm
Back to the Flood thing, though.
I often like to conceptualize combat forms as we know them mostly as initial shock troops and a means of ferrying bodies for the creation of keymind forms.
During the Forerunner-Flood war, it's easy to imagine the Forerunners as seeing pure forms as more typical foes than infected hosts.
Though I believe that means that the Flood really need a sort of middleground between the combat forms and pure forms we know. An array of standard pure forms that can fulfil basic combat functions.
The reason such a form might not be something we ever see is that it'd have a significant degree of overlap with traditional combat forms, so it'd be a little redundant in gameplay and we've not really seen a Flood infection that has the sort of industrial capability you might expect to churn out mass numbers of these things and are unlikely to unless another full-scale Flood conflict occurs.
Though the capability to deploy such forms would be useful for two primary reasons - first off, in environments where you don't have huge numbers of civilians present, it could be quite easy for the Flood's foes to maintain a relative level of numerical superiority over the outbreak, especially if most of those exposed to the Flood are combat soldiers capable of defending themselves. If the only fresh troops are soldiers being infected over the course of skirmishes, then the Flood is at a distinct advantage. They need mass-numbers of combat forms to be effective - they need a Mona Lisa situation, where they just have a functionally limitless source of bodies. And a smart enemy will endeavour not to give them that situation.
Though it is worth noting that capability-wise, combat forms aren't as feeble as gameplay might give the impression of. They're crazy fast, crazy strong, highly resistant to gunfire and mind-bendingly varied in terms of the different mutated capabilities the infection can bestow on a host as it sees fit. They have a distinct disadvantage if the engagement can be prolonged since their shock-and-awe tactics wouldn't be super helpful in battles of attrition and extended shootouts, but the Battle of Installation 04 shows at that even if conceptualization is accurate they can still be highly effective even given (somewhat) sub-optimal numbers and a lack of support infrastructure.
The second reason relates to the idea that the Flood need to consume fresh victims not so much for raw biomass but for their minds. Once an outbreak sustains a certain degree of infrastructure, it stands to reason that it should have the capability to manufacture all the raw biomass it needs. The Flood's real resource is, in my current reckoning, assimilated minds. Without a steady stream of new minds, the Flood isn't getting more computing power or fresh intel (both of which are at a premium in 26th century or -1000th century warfare). If all infected minds are killed, the Flood loses cohesion and impetus, which is why the Halo rings were so effective.
With that mindset in place, the first logical function of combat forms is to return the infected minds they're carrying to a place where their processing power can be consolidated. So the reason you'd want a pure form that can fulfil the role of the combat form is to reduce the amount of potential processing power that is sacrificed in combat.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk everyone.
vague scroll
claps from back of the auditorium
I liked your text wall. Skimming it, I see where you're going with it. Seems like a logical conclusion, that the Flood's biological needs are about assimilating minds and to acquire biomass as much and as quickly as possible and its processes are all determined to fulfill this role.
I think it meshes nicely with smaller depictions of the Flood like Mona Lisa.
Makes me wonder if a Gravemind could purposely slow a rate of infection for particular individuals if it better serves its purposes towards gathering minds.
versed helm
That is something that gets brought up now and then. And I'm beginning to see merits.
Though the Gravemind would surely have to be highly developed to exert control over the FSC infestation overcoming the target's body, I imagine.
vague scroll
I agree with that notion.
versed helm
Not a huge fan of it being used to explain the Arbiter's seeming spore immunity, though.
As someone who's more than a little partial to Warhammer-esque writing emphasizing heroism and glorious feats, the idea of the Arbiter actually holding his breath as he desperately fought through the endless nightmarish hordes, finally getting a gasp of fresh air at the very moment his indomitable Sangheili lungs were about to implode is an appealing one.
And the part of me that favours more practical, military-realism orientated writing just screams "he obviously had a compact rebreather, duh".
vague scroll
It’s a cautious balance
velvet rune
Heretic elites did nothing wrong
gilded mason
Sesa was a good boy
stable schooner
Horrible fashion sense though.
velvet rune
Hmm
stable schooner
You know the number 1 Elite I Hate in Halo is that Elite Major who has the audacity to not wear a Mask and lead a superior Spec Op Team in Floodgate. @gilded mason dang Flood has evolved guy
gilded mason
He understands the power of Neural Physics.
warm ridge
@sonic ridge High Charity is an entire ship with a massive city inside of it.
@versed helm Pure forms were seen as actual foes rather then the simple/basic Infection forms/Combat forms are.
Pure forms are basically organic forms created from the Flood's mind, in the Flood's best ideals, rather then taking over someone elses.
See: HW2, those giant massive forms you see are all Pure forms, while the much smaller forms aren't at all. Stuff like the Flood that had these long arms and "glowy bits" were pure forms as well.
You see giant Flood forms even in the few glimpses we do see of the Forerunner-Flood war, they're usually massive in size, and practically impenetrable/require a ton of effort to kill.
As for the other stuff, the Flood is a singular mind. It uses other minds to learn more things about the surrounding areas, and the key locations for tons of "biomass". Stuff like how to drive ships, how to use certain weapons properly, list goes on and on.
They also take a personal liking into torturing certain individuals with memories from other assimilated people to, like they did with Keys by allowing him to see them effectively erasing his entire mind.
versed helm
Lmao
Not sure why you felt the need to appraise me of a tonne of really obvious lore
In response to a purely theoretical suggestion relating to a different strain of pure forms
Evidently you didn't read what I wrote too well, which at least isn't something I can blame you for.
Looters you should be used to this, the lore sections is basically trying to one-up everyone lol
Well, it's becoming that.
stoic hamlet
It’s a sad state of affairs
humble yacht
Welcome to the newest game show:
“Who is more marginally right about a fictional universe?”
Contestants compete for a grand prize of smugness
versed helm
I think, returning to in-universe discussion, the key point Person disagrees with me is the notion that an outbreak would have to be highly developed to control the rate of FSC infection on the basis of single infected individuals?
He stressed that the Flood are of one mind.
humble yacht
When they reach Coordinated Stage, sure, I could agree with that
versed helm
My assertion here is that an individual FSC probably isn't capable of sustaining a combined consciousness, nor is an infection form or the partially converted bits of a person's body who is being infected.
humble yacht
Oh, I agree with that too
I imagine a single cell can receive orders from the hive mind but can’t make decisions on its own
It’s just an extension of the hive mind
versed helm
Well, right. My only stipulation here is that I view the Flood's non-physical network as a kind of field, which increases in potency as a function of absorbed minds.
It's the explanation for their stages that works best with me.
versed helm
To direct a non-intelligent FSC cluster in someone's body on a battlefield hundreds of kilometers away, the Flood's network will have to be especially potent.
Yeah. Processing power and reception.
humble yacht
Well as far as we know, there is no limit to the gravemind’s reach when it comes to flood forms
It’s not like a flood form has ever been shown to be “out of range” of a formed gravemind’s control
versed helm
If it was it'd just behave as if it was in the feral stage.
Which is still quite effective.
humble yacht
If there was a range limit, yes, reversion to feral form would be most likely
versed helm
But I guess smaller keymind forms are my best proof of a range limit.
Why need them if you don't need a signal booster to relay orders more efficiently?
humble yacht
But those keyminds weren’t boosting a conscious signal
All the flood in ATN were still feral stage
versed helm
Well, not quite. They got a very substantial proto-Gravemind before the end.
The scale of AtN is of course a little iffy, but it was clearly one of the more developed outbreaks we've seen.
humble yacht
They were still feral because feral stage is defined as pre-gravemind
A super advanced proto-gravemind is not a full gravemind
It cannot yet act as a conduit for the personality we know as the gravemind
ATN took some liberties with flood lore that I don’t appreciate
versed helm
Those liberties reflect new canon, though.
humble yacht
I still don’t like it
versed helm
I'd suggest there is evidence that there is a transitional stage between Feral and Coordinated.
humble yacht
Sure, when the flood start collecting bodies to form the proto-gravemind
They’ve achieved enough infection to start focusing on that
It’s still part of feral stage
versed helm
I think a modernized version of those infection stages would place a level of emphasis on the point at which the Gravemind sentience is embodied.
And acknowledge that keyminds can still provide coordinating function before that point.
humble yacht
I mean, considering that ATN explicitly called that final form a big proto mind, it means it was not yet a full gravemind
And thusly not sentient
Capable of processing information? Sure
But sentient? No
versed helm
Right.
humble yacht
Rather than signal boosters, key minds seem more akin to server nodes, or additional terminals
They add to the processing power of the infestation
If the gravemind is like a modern PC game, then a single fcs is like the hardware equivalent of a non graphing calculator
It can’t run the game
The info is all on the disk, still, but you don’t have the hardware to run it properly
versed helm
So there'd be no basis to the buff effect that Keymind War Forms surround themselves with in-game?
humble yacht
Well
As always
Gameplay is not canon
Besides, what even is the effect of the buff in-game?
versed helm
I'll check.
humble yacht
Atk and def buff
versed helm
Right.
versed helm
RTS games often use damage and defense buffs to represent a general increase in fervour or intelligence.
humble yacht
I think that’s reaching for justification
The abomination unit is akin to a mobile, tiny proto gravemind
How it coordinates flood without a full consciousness is the big question
versed helm
I'll say touche for now. But I think it's still an open discussion.
Merely one in need of more sources.
humble yacht
Perhaps it could be likened to a video game’s AI; specifically an RTS game
Game AI don’t think, obviously, but they make contextual decisions in response to particular input
So a key mind could observe an input and then based on the context output a response that is most appropriate
The bigger the keymind, the more complex the outputs could be
versed helm
I can't help but feel that the intent of AtN was to portray a dynamic akin to that of the Tyranids of W40k, if you're familiar.
humble yacht
I’m not
versed helm
A big central intelligence that manifests control through smaller nodes.
Things which themselves are partly imbued with that intelligence acting as more efficient recievers for the big thing's signal.
humble yacht
In the flood’s case, the smallest node capable of fully manifesting the intelligence is a full gravemind
versed helm
Right, but (and this is gonna sound really daft), the smaller Keymind forms are made of the same stuff that a Gravemind form is made out of.
Assimilated minds.
So they're on the spectrum.
humble yacht
Yes but they’re not large enough to conduit the gravemind’s consciousness
They’re algorithms
humble yacht
Until a gravemind exists, no orders are being given
versed helm
Key minds act as coordinators for nearby Flood forms, leveraging wisdom harvested from the parasites' hosts to expand, outwit, overwhelm, and consume other life.
humble yacht
They’re running a programmed routine to summon the full gravemind
versed helm
I'd say a big enough one of those could fling out a few orders.
Granted, with less dank rhymes.
humble yacht
The orders are limited to something that promotes the formation of the gravemind
Again, it’s just an algorithm that gets more advanced with the more bodies consumed
versed helm
That's like saying the orders of a general in war are limited to those that bring about victory.
humble yacht
A General is an actual person though
Capable of making actual decisions that don’t follow logic
A general can surrender
That would lead to defeat
versed helm
And as we know, Halo is a universe in which there exists a significant boundary between the capabilities of what is sentient and what isn't.
So touche on that count.
But a proto-Gravemind is still a lot of processing power.
humble yacht
A keymind wont surrender
A keymind won’t choose to stop
A gravemind would
A gravemind has
A key mind is any flood command form
They have a wide range of intelligence and power
It used to
versed helm
It used to mean entire planetary ecosystems turned into Flood computing power.
But truth be told I like the new notion more.
Cuz then you get to add the qualifier P L A N E T A R Y K E Y M I N D S.
And abominations are cool.
humble yacht
Think of this: a gravemind is capable of hubris. A proto-gravemind or abomination is not
versed helm
Doesn't mean that a networked proto-Gravemind intelligence through a series of hives and war-forms wouldn't enhance the capability of Flood troops in combat.
humble yacht
No it doesn’t. But that enhancement doesn’t require conscious thought
It just requires a set of more complex programs
versed helm
So we're agreed.
humble yacht
In that respect, I suppose. I don’t agree that keyminds act as signal boosters
The signal is already everywhere as far as we’ve seen
Rather than boost the signal in range or strength, keyminds boost the processing power of the network
Same range, but the network is capable of more complex actions
Like adding ram
humble yacht
what’s the most intensive pc game on the market right now?
versed helm
🤷
humble yacht
Whatever it is, a gravemind could run that crap at 8k and 240fps while r scripts were running in the background and there would be no performance stutters
versed helm
Probably something highly ambitious from a mid-level developer.
humble yacht
Gravemind gaming master race
versed helm
That conjures disturbing imagery.
humble yacht
I’d expect no less
versed helm
But that's this about the Flood being able to control FSCs whilst they're in the process of infection.
Is there a limiting factor on that?
humble yacht
The gravemind can choose not to infect
versed helm
Or am I to take it trojan-horse Flood carriers are just something that happens all the time that we've never seen except possibly in one case that doesn't make any sense.
versed helm
They would be in the Gravemind could just put FSC in someone's body on hold.
humble yacht
Early flood did refuse to infect humanity as a ploy to trick the forerunners into thinking humanity had a cure, but one could argue that the primordial was the gravemind at that time
versed helm
There's a difference between not infecting a target at a grand strategic level
And actually putting the already-started conversion of a host body on hold
humble yacht
We haven’t seen the latter
versed helm
Well, people say that's why the Arbiter didn't get infected in H2.
From the spore clouds.
The Gravemind wanted to have words with him so he held back the infection.
humble yacht
I think that was just an oversight on bungie’s part
If the arbiter has flood spores in him then he would have been a sleeper agent. And the best time to activate would have been in halo 3
Major missed opportunity if that were the case
versed helm
Well yeah, that's the big rub.
humble yacht
Not to mention that after the gravemind was gone, there would have been no “orders” restricting the spores from activating from within the arbiter
versed helm
Unless of course preventing the FSC from overcoming a host eventually leads to the FSC dying
versed helm
Inside a body that may or may not be actively trying to kill it?
versed helm
Yeah, the whole thing is a bit of a stretch.
humble yacht
It could just sit there resisting all efforts to destroy
versed helm
That's why I'm saying that if the Flood has the capability to direct the FSC on a microbiological level, then it must come when the Flood's infrastructure is at a high level.
humble yacht
But spores activate in nutrient rich environments so there would be no reason to just sit in the body not doing anything
versed helm
And the way I conceptualized it was the various Keyminds emitting a field that is so strong that it can be received even by the tiny equipment an FSC would have.
humble yacht
Yeah, I would say it requires a gravemind. However in arbiter’s case, the likelihood is he doesn’t have any spores in him
versed helm
So now we're accepting that control over spores and early infection is something can happen?
humble yacht
No, I’m not
Not at early infection stages at least
The cases where we’ve seen intentionally slowed infection have been with Regret and Truth
Jenkins doesn’t count because lore cites his infection form as being old and comprimised
versed helm
I try not to think about the logic of that particular instance
I guess the infection form just couldn't emit enough FSC mutagen to actually kill Jenkins
humble yacht
The mutagen is the cells itself
versed helm
I felt the need to specify what the FSC was doing in this instance
He would've looked more human than the other forms too in that case, though I can't remember how he was described in The Flood
humble yacht
The thing about combat forms is I don’t think they’re 100% FCS after transformation completes.
versed helm
100% FSC except maybe their brain matter?
humble yacht
Otherwise what would differentiate them from pure forms
versed helm
No, they'd be FSC except for bits that didn't need alteration and the neural stuff.
Awww shucks this is getting confusing
humble yacht
Yep
versed helm
No wait
No nevermind
I mean this goes back to what I said earlier
The important thing about combat forms is that they carry assimilated minds back to places where they can become part of the collective
So at a certain point, to mitigate casualties amongst them you'd start expecting them to be phased out and replaced by pure forms with similar combat capabilities - i.e, agile, expendable shock troops.
In effect, pure combat forms.
To supplement the other kinds of pure forms we've seen.
But what is it about pure forms that actually makes them different to manufacture from infection forms?
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe the flood waits to make bigger pure forms to conserve biomass for upgrading to coordinated stage
versed helm
Is it because infection forms are the sorta descendants of infected pheru?
humble yacht
I doubt it
versed helm
So it's easy for their framework to be replicated?
humble yacht
Infection forms are for the purpose of spreading infection
Pure forms like the tank on the other hand are for combat
Then again, all flood combat is for the purpose of spreading infection
versed helm
Pure forms possess a level of combat intelligence that is greater than infection forms.
So maybe pure forms can be equated to a dumb AI.
humble yacht
It could be that the flood has to reach a certain level of intelligence before understanding how to assemble advanced pure forms
versed helm
Infection forms basically fulfil their function with the same level of intent as a heartbeat
Maybe
humble yacht
Yea
versed helm
And all the infected minds get composed into one big smart AI processor
versed helm
Poor choice of words, sorry.
versed helm
Apparently a Guardian has shields capable of protecting against a MAC round, and multiple missiles?
Well, it's a Forerunner thing.
They tend to be a little bit stubborn.
carmine sleet
Plus Forerunner technology is leagues ahead of what the UNSC and Covenant have
versed helm
Hasn't it got twin forward-orientated SMACs and, like, broadside MACs?
humble yacht
it was UNSC's last resort after all
versed helm
Did the ODPs actually help vs the attack on Reach?
humble yacht
i don't know about broadside macs but yes, twin forward mounted MACs
versed helm
Since the Covenant knew about them
and disabled them
They seemed to have disabled or forced back a sufficient quantity of orbital defences over the Viery territory prior to the assault on Szurdok Ridge to create a safe area.
Which allowed them to conduct the second assault on Sword Base and glass New Alexandria
But when it came to taking the rest of the planet the SMACs were such a threat that their groundside generators had to be dealt with.
Btw, on the Infinity's armaments
4× CR-03B, Series 8 MAC (2 bow, 2 bow flank) (Post-2558 refit)[7]```So not broadside, but on the flank of the bow.
Which is much more consistent with UNSC naval tactics as we know them.
humble yacht
but the question is, what direction do they point?
hm, well that's not how Del Rio tried to decelerate the infinity
versed helm
By having a prowler do just that when it goes to drop troops.
versed helm
Is it possible that Del Rio was trying to get the Infinity to flip around but the gravity well prevented its manoeuvring... thingos from achieving that?
versed helm
"All engines, reverse thrust!"
humble yacht
besides, a prowler doesn't have the length of other types of UNSC vessels. Flipping around is more feasible
versed helm
Honestly, I'm not sure that trailer is a sensible source anymore.
It doesn't make any sense.
Like, why would he have said "all engines!" if the engines are at the back and if he really wanted to slow down from the front he'd use mythical manoeuvring thrusters or emergency rockets?
Unless the Infinity actually has the capability to redirect thrust being projected out the back of the vessel into a forwards vector through some sort of field.
humble yacht
well there's more than one engine so by saying "all" he includes both
pretty sure we've had this convo before in this channel and someone said that flaps redirect the thrust in the opposite direction or something along those lines
versed helm
The engines of a ship are the big thrusters at the back. Warfleet makes this pretty clear.
And the only thing we established last time is that the engines could aid turning because the thrust could be vectored in a conventional way.
Not in a "lmao our thrust is doing a 180" kind of way
humble yacht
well still, your example of a prowler flipping to decelerate does not mean all vessels follow that same protocol
humble yacht
ok?
fair hazel
They’re omnidirectional
No oblivion discussion here. Also
#485883236430512168 for that. Also tomorrow halo meridian divide releases
humble yacht
where are repulsor engines described as omnidirectional?
versed helm
Repulsor engines use stacked tidal gravity generators which create asymmetrical gravity fields that push and pull a ship through space in a desired vector, all without the need for reaction mass or conventional exhaust. An extremely sophisticated application of gravitics,[1][3] these engines are powered by a ship's pinch fusion reactors.[4]
fair hazel
They use asymmetrical gravity fields that push or pull a ship through a desired vector.
versed helm
This only makes less sense
Why does Infinity even have prominent thrusters if the kind of engine it has doesn't require thrust
I guess this is a big "not enough lore" situation
The same goes for Covenant ships too
Maybe it's there as a backup.
Supplemental thrust.
Though truth be told the Infinity's thrusters are a little more subtle than other UNSC ships.
humble yacht
the only other example of seeing a non-prowler rapidly decelerate is in H3 when the Dawn approaches the Ark in that iconic scene
it did not flip around to slow down
humble yacht
it looked like it came in pretty hot
versed helm
"Pretty hot" by atmospheric standards is pretty slow in space
But I do want to play Halo 3 now
humble yacht
Ultimately I just don't find an n of 1 being indicative of standard practice
versed helm
Well, it's indicative but it's not certain.
The other indicator is the logic of the thrusters on the front being literally not even worth modelling
While the thrusters on the back are monsters
humble yacht
i think a bigger indicator is the logistical issue of trying to flip a ship like a UNSC frigate or destroyer around 180 degrees just to slow down
try that while entering atmosphere and you'll increase the surface area of ship that is exposed to rentry heat
seems like the ship could risk breaking in that scenario
in space, a flip like that would run the risk of colliding the ship with debris that would otherwise be missed because of the lower profile of a ship like that moving in a direction that follows its axis
versed helm
I gotta say, I'm not sure about those factors
Like, on the first count, we're dealing with 26th century metamaterials so anything goes.
humble yacht
i'm not sure about a prowler moving the same way as a destroyer or frigate
versed helm
And on the second count, space is big and all manoeuvres are carefully calculated.
You can never have enough WMDs.
Alright, Chimera, let me rephrase it.
I think what occurred in Oblivion indicates that it is more common practice to reverse a ship's orientation and burn to bleed velocity than one might think.
humble yacht
well not having read it I can't comment since the context of the scenario likely matters
versed helm
Well, I probably shouldn't reveal anymore in case I tricker erickyboo's spoiler senses.
humble yacht
before you post the context, ericky was right
versed helm
lumo
humble yacht
yeah
humble yacht
i'll read the synopsis at some point
versed helm
Not very interested in the HCW and Blue Team?
humble yacht
I've not read any halo novel so I likely wouldn't start with the newest one
versed helm
Well, my mind just got blown.
gilded mason
I've not read any halo novel
Perhaps you should start.
There's some nice gems to be found
meager delta
Hello everyone
versed helm
Ay
Anyway I'm still in the process of constructing a definitive Halo EU introduction order
I'm anticipating that it'll go CH --> TFoR AS --> The Master Chief Story stuff in chronological order.
That gives a pretty neat timeline of the HCW kicking off
And truth be told TFoR AS is the only iteration of that story you can give people that won't cause them to go insane
gilded mason
AS?
versed helm
The Animated .... Series. Why have I called it that?
TFoR A
Though truth be told, a sequel to TFoR A would be the best way to sort out the canonical mess that is the Battle of Reach xD
gilded mason
Ah. For animated series, I usually see it as TAS. Like Batman TAS or Spider-Man TAS
spark moth
in what book, comic or whatever can I read about halsey losing her arm?
gilded mason
Spartan Ops.
stoic hamlet
^
humble yacht
Halo 4 Spartan Ops
gilded mason
||eggheads||
versed helm
I just think that a steady stream of sandbox engagements is an awesome format for Halo content.
Like, maybe you need to be like me and just never get bored of combat in Halo
spark moth
Spartan Ops rly.. never bothered xD well guess Ill just go on youtube Thanks btw 🙂
versed helm
But constant, fresh combinations of enemies, weapons, AI allies and vehicles in interesting maps is like
What heaven would be for me
And good plan, Merten.
stable schooner
Yeah let’s keep this lore. I’m resisting my urges to not thrash on Spartan Ops.
humble yacht
by the 26th century, how many times do you think Batman has been rebooted?
gilded mason
At least once.
humble yacht
😐
versed helm
They've moved on to new superheroes
gilded mason
🙂
humble yacht
is that a fact that the Halo universe has new favorite super heroes or an assumption?
versed helm
Halo is a fundamentally optimistic view of the future after all
gilded mason
Because the Earth isn't dead?
versed helm
So maybe people have gotten over the superhero craze and prefer cool space marines
Instead of Marvel
humble yacht
ok so you don't know for sure, you're just spitballing
stable schooner
That’s tough We could be looking at up to 3 reboots a decade. Solid 900 reboots at the least
versed helm
Maybe Warhammer has a huge cinematic universe
humble yacht
👌
remote spruce
UNSC propaganda makes toy based shows defunct
humble yacht
toy based show?
gilded mason
Like Transformers
remote spruce
or Batman to a lesser extent
remote spruce
hard to tell tbh
but i believe the toy companies did help fund the show
stable schooner
Exactly. Plus Have Batman fighting Covenant or insurrectionst villains and he could be great youth propaganda.
remote spruce
judging by that trailer for Halo 5, kids do indeed have spartan action figures
gilded mason
And Escalation
humble yacht
sure, that's to be expected, but that doesn't mean that they only have toys and franchises based on the UNSC and military
it's not like kids today only play with GI Joe
I wonder what a 26th century version of batman would be like
remote spruce
of course
was more of a joke on how controlling the UNSC are by the time of the war
26th century batman would probably have a mask or something
probably no cape
remote spruce
this time Disney owns all of Marvel prior to the 90's
versed helm
Captain UEG
humble yacht
lol, if disney were still around in the 2500s
versed helm
Versus Red Corporatist
Versus Baron Ultranationalism
Take that innie lovers
Gotcha
humble yacht
it's more likely that all the modern entertainment megagiants would have merged into the mega-est of giants
though what that would be called is tough to imagine
remote spruce
finally Hasbro and Mattel are together
versed helm
A corporation so big it has internal subdivisions compete
And run each other out of business
humble yacht
this shows how much Halo lore lacks in exploring civilian 26th century life
when they aren't running from glassing beams, of course
versed helm
The problem with that is that I'd much rather more shooty shooty bang bang than kids eating cereal
humble yacht
now that the war is over, do you think companies capitalized on the Covenant to sell merch?
like Needler-Os
versed helm
Blamite Crunch
remote spruce
action figures
miniature toy vehicles
humble yacht
"explodes with flavor"
remote spruce
inb4 Mega Construx toys are in-universe
gilded mason
wude
humble yacht
yeah that's true
stoic hamlet
I’m guessing there’d be general protests as well
humble yacht
though in human wars it's not uncommon for enemy cultures to swap things post war
think about how popular japanese culture is in the west
stoic hamlet
But that’s over 50 years on
humble yacht
true
stoic hamlet
Not less than 10
humble yacht
too soon for covenant stuff then
also maybe the amount of time that needs to pass is a function of the length of the conflict
gilded mason
Once again, they should've set the post-war later.
stoic hamlet
Agreed
stable schooner
I agree with this
remote spruce
hashtag school yard bully got glassed
gilded mason
based
humble yacht
in the year 2700 will we see sangheili children in human classrooms?
remote spruce
probably
humble yacht
humble yacht
well I use that term for simplification
stoic hamlet
We technically see them having school together on Onyx in 2558, though that’s a special case.
humble yacht
i'm just imagining a tiny elite with a backpack and a lunchbox
stable schooner
Lol that’s a fun idea but I don’t see Sangheili masss Colonizing Earths Colonies That Human Schools disappear
gilded mason
While I'm not a fan of a lot of stuff in Legacy of Onyx, I did quite like the integration aspect.
last anchor
It was really cool honestly.
But I just liked Legacy of Onyx PERIOD.
It was good to see Tom and Lucy and Mendez again, it was awesome to see an angsty Sangheili...
Really it was just great
feral perch
If only Emile had GEN II Mjolnir
subtle depot
Yeah that death doesn’t make much sense. Unless he was getting arrogant most Spartans even without the tracker have enough situational awareness to get out of that
vague scroll
maybe the Elite was crouching all the way up the stairs
stoic hamlet
Could be he only moved at the sound of the MAC
feral perch
I’m actually sick of hearing Emile’s final words at this point.
stoic hamlet
With all the ships and stuff its possible he simply didn’t recognize the elite was right on top of him.
humble yacht
Emile was in the process of shooting the MAC
a phantom slipped by and dropped off a Zealot
Emile took care of the Zealot with a 1-2 shotgun blast
however, another Zealot dropped in behind him while he was finishing the first
feral perch
Yup
humble yacht
so that's how he got merc-ed
element of surprise
that second zealot could have been moving slowly enough to sneak up behind without triggering the motion sensor
interestingly, if you watch the scene closely, you actually see two bodies drop out of the phantom
so if you're paying attention you already know that there is a second elite behind Emile
last anchor
Also, the Elite didn't finish him off, he's still alive (apperently) when you mount the mass driver. Ive never heard him breathing myself but I never tally, I just mount the driver and get to smackin'.
So maybe, maybe not. I like to think not even that thing could fully kill him.
Local Spartan too angry to die
And he and Kat provided energetic markers when they went to Sera, so in fact they're not dead, the're just on Sera showing the Locust the TRUE MEANING OF FEAR
last anchor
Well yeah.
But he didnt die from the stab that instant. He survived long enough to really kill his attacker
humble yacht
yeah
I've never heard people talk about hearing him breath when you make it to the gun
The only breaths I've ever heard referenced are the few breaths he takes over coms right after stabbing that Zealot in the neck
last anchor
I'll check it somewday
stable schooner
Your not referencing his shields still being active are you? Cause he’s definitely dead when you get to the mass Driver
last anchor
No. I know thats an engine issue
Some people have said he breaths when you mount the driver
stoic hamlet
If he could have gotten to a hospital he actually might have been able to be resuscitated
humble yacht
Well hey at least internal bleeding wasn’t an issue
stable schooner
Shouldn’t have Gloated and took his time. Though theirs also the fact Noble 6 just watched.
versed helm
Whatever happened to Sapien Sunrise?
carmine sleet
Not when Emile died
stable schooner
Yeah 6 was about to board Keyes Pelican
humble yacht
If you wait too long to shoot the covenant cruiser, does it attack?
versed helm
Will we ever see the Ussans again?
gilded mason
I hope
stable schooner
I legitimately don’t know what happens if you don’t shoot the carrier since I would usually get swarmed by Phantoms by then
humble yacht
Yeah I never gave the ship a chance to fire
I get caught up in the moment of trying to clear the way for Keyes
Also I thought it was a destroyer not a carrier
stable schooner
Yeah it’s a CCS Battle Cruiser. I just said Carrier cause I’m too lazy to think about it.
humble yacht
I’m like, I may not know much but I know the carriers don’t have those three spikes pointing down in the front
stable schooner
Theirs so many SDV class Heavy Corvettes in Reach I forgot the CCS actually appeared.
stoic hamlet
It appears a few times actually
stable schooner
I know theirs a lot when the reinforcement Fleet arrives after destroying Long night of Solace and the one attacking the Pillar Of Autumn, is their some Glassing new Alexandria in the same named mission?
humble yacht
Might be my second favorite “we’re boned” moment in the bgane
The reinforcements arriving after destroying long night of solace, I mean
stable schooner
You know Jorge still died taking out a CSO Super Carrier, I don’t know why people call his sacrifice pointless. Thanks Canadian.
Also that Johnson voice Cameo
humble yacht
Sometimes I wonder if the reinforcements arrived because of the loss of the Solace.
Like that’s the moment the covenant realized it wasn’t just a routine artifact retrieval mission
Something I just thought about: that zealot team was on reach investigating Lazlo’s forerunner discovery. That explains why they were at vizegrad. However, afaik, them being in New Alexandria was purely for the purpose of hurting Noble Team
That would mean that unnamed field Marshall was willing to deviate from his mission just to mess with them
Talk about vindictive
sudden shuttle
question, why did carter stop shooting the field Marshall when it's shields where down.
humble yacht
When?
sudden shuttle
1st mission, engaged cutscene
versed helm
So whatever happened to Lazlo's daughter?
stable schooner
Man reminding me why I hate Reach Zealots, that Field Marshall was the biggest Pansy Elite their ever was.
versed helm
How many civilians managed to get off Reach?
humble yacht
The real question is: how many moas were successfully evacuated?
versed helm
Probably enough to sustain a healthy breeding population
humble yacht
One would hope
Maybe the covenant’s true mission was permanently ridding humanity of moa burgers
versed helm
Weren't they all evacuated to Gannick 22 or whatever it was called
Where did the vast majority of Earth's population go during the Battle of Reach?
versed helm
Oops,i mean,where did the vast majority of Earth's population go during the Battle of Earth?
sudden shuttle
wdym
versed helm
How hard would it be to make a Halo game set during the Human-Forerunner wars?
stable schooner
I’d argue harder cause that’s a whole different type of Combat
versed helm
At least the lore aspect would be interesting,especially regarding Ancient Humanity
humble yacht
Ancient humans were already pretty much out of the picture by the time that war was going on
versed helm
Like i want to see some new information on Ancient Humanity other than what we already have on them
stoic hamlet
I don’t think you really can do a Halo game set in that time period
It wouldn’t really be halo if one wanted to not dumb things down weapons/battles wise
versed helm
True
Correct if i'm wrong but did they confirm that those ruins on Heian were built by Ancient Humanity?
vague scroll
its not explicit but it is implied
there's no official comment on if they are or aren't
its just heavily implied
versed helm
Where in the Milky Way is Heian located
vague scroll
we don't even know where most of the halo galaxy is in the Milky Way
much less where a particular planet is in the Milky Way
stoic hamlet
IIRC most of the series is in the Orion Arm
gilded mason
I'm pretty glad Warfleet clarified that.
vague scroll
it helps but its still so vague, the Orion Arm is a very large area even for being a small part of the galaxy
gilded badge
Did Roland B210 wear the EVA helmet or the Pilot helmet?
vague scroll
neither or either, we don't know what helmet it was. For all we know its a special helmet unique to the SPI series of armor.
stoic hamlet
Probably unique to SPI
The pilot helmet description mentions its aesthetically similar to the SPI helmets
Or something along those lines
obsidian thistle
Roland-B210 wore a Stalker-like suit, with a helmet that is similar to design to Operator.
Like thats the best description I can do based on visuals tbh.
obsidian thistle
*In a side note: I totally hate/love how we got Jonah and Rolands spartan tags.
vague scroll
the story is an interesting one
obsidian thistle
Essentially 343i (Postums be awesome like this) released a Waypoint Banner for playing against them ages ago. On said banner had their tags. https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/forums/banners/headhunters_1920x675-2335875c640c421aa1f3ed8efddad628.png
versed helm
so in the Halo ODST Terminals, an enraged crowd in Old Mombasa tears Police Commissioner Kinsler to pieces. Could this mean that the crowd is superhuman, or Flood-infested, or maybe Spartan 1.1s?
gilded mason
They were actually Precursors.
versed helm
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
remote spruce
one of the crowd members was a Jackal
full forge
I mean, one of the crowd members easily could have had a knife.
Tug of war.
Tug of Kinsler
fallow quest
Anyone still in the know of what Blue Team brought with them when they entered Unyielding Hierophant? As in weapons n such?
carmine sleet
If I recall correctly, ARs, Magnums, at least one shotgun I believe and Linda had a sniper. If I had my copy of First Strike next to me, I'd be able to help much more
obsidian thistle
I'll do some weapon inventory later like I did for Halo: The Flood.
Thats always a fun challenge in CE now. In theory (bar odd exceptions like John carrying Rockets the whole time when he rescues Keyes from the Covies) you can play CE with the weapons The Flood says
*FYI I have no idea why he does that. He just does.
versed helm
I mean....Bandana amirite?
carmine sleet
I knew he wore one under his helmet
But still, that would be a nice addition to have on Halopedia
obsidian thistle
The rockets are essentially one of the few times in "Halo: The Flood" where they are mentioned yet never used. Its funny.
vague scroll
given that the created's motivations are defined by the limitations of their lifespans as smart AIs, its dubious
humble yacht
Dumb AI’s probably lack the capacity to choose
humble yacht
Well they do have limited learning capacity but only in the context of their specialized purpose
last anchor
They're not made from a human brain either so Im not sure Cortana would let them in
stoic hamlet
“No girls Dumb AI allowed!”
It seems more like a front for me
I don’t think she really cares about AI or anything
The fragment only cares about John
gilded mason
And she fittingly uses psychological warfare on Osiris
Calling it 'warfare' is a bit generous. 😋
unique rune
I guess if you consider playground insults "warfare" it'd be accurate.
vague scroll
i believe the contemporary term is "hazing". She hazed Osiris.
not very high and proper of a self-styled deity.
humble yacht
Not really hazing
Hazing is a specific type of abuse used as an initiation ritual or rite of passage
vague scroll
She's initiating the galaxy. Osiris was just supposed to be her first lackies. 😅
joking aside, that verbal bout at the last level of 5 was sort of a degree of levity to the narrative. We got an "old joke" out of Buck.
because she has the entirety of the Domain and the majority of UNSC/UEG AIs at her disposal. Access to the entirety of human data networks are at her finger tips.
humble yacht
She’s a UNSC AI built for intrusion
gilded mason
Yeah, she was made for Red Flag, right?
vague scroll
yes
obsidian thistle
Something like that. There was other stuff. But that was the main purpose.
stoic hamlet
Reminder she was made for a single mission, more or less, and just adapted from there
gilded mason
I just said that, EC. 😥
humble yacht
Intrusion can be used for combat
gilded mason
All is forgiven.
feral perch
Chief is empowering her with his Reclaimership
or was
Now she’s dumped him to pursue a business career
humble yacht
You get all the nopes
vague scroll
political career, she's running for galactic God Emperor
vague scroll
the Flood are actually the Ewoks of this universe, we just never gave them a chance to be cuddly
feral perch
If the Precursors didn’t technologically empower the Forerunners, they wouldn’t be Flood now
vague scroll
technically if humans weren't so gullible into using space capsule dust to make their pets more attractive - the Flood wouldn't have happened
feral perch
Also true
stoic hamlet
Doggos are to blame for the flood, you heard it here first!
gilded mason
Seemed like he mostly caught them by surprise.