I think its technically a multi-role since there's like, 8+ variants of it designed for different jobs.
Interceptor, bomber, ground attack, what have you
#lore-and-universe
last anchor
warm ridge
@strong sage Longsword would easily win. A Frigate is massive, wot?
last anchor
Someone forgot the size difference between the GDI tech and the UNSCs
warm ridge
Someone forgets the fact that Frigates usually carry MAC guns capable of obliterating half a continent at full power.
warm ridge
F
last anchor
Dust to dust...
TBH I dont think a FRIGATES could do that, specifically.
Their MACs are powerful but not that much so.
Something bigger like a Destroyer probably.
DEFINENTLY something like a Carrier tho.
warm ridge
MAC guns being used in atmosphere is extremely rare for a reason lol.
last anchor
Shockwaves, mainly.
Rather than any sort of impact.
Remember how small Grafton was in relation to the Spire.
They're big, but they're not THAT big.
Someone find me the math for how kinetic rods work again?
humble yacht
it's not like we saw a lined up comparison
orientation and perspective kind of prevents a direct size comparison between Grafton and the Spire
strong sage
Aren’t uhh gdi kodiak the size of like frigates and should have decent firepower/defences?
last anchor
No
Not that I remember. Hang on.
HAHAHAHAHA WAIT THAT thing?
OH NO. NO WAY.
That things closer to a UNSC Mammoth.
Frigates are half a klick long and carry 70mm autocannons for close-in defense
warm ridge
Yeah, I was just looking it up and it's practically the size of a Mammoth/slightly longer.
last anchor
Its more of a land battleship, really
So yeah, a Longsword would be a good answer to it because longswords can carry havok nuclear ordinance
Anyway on the frigates MAC being powerful enough to shatter half a continnent...nah. Like I said, they're big but not THAT big
The ship itself is only ~500 meters long
strong sage
Oooooo i thought kodiaks are that big coz been reading the cnc wiki about it, the way it describe the thing was big
My bad sorz
But hey at least u had a good laugh fam xd
warm ridge
Not all MAC's are capable of doing it no, but MAC's on Frigates definitely can.
gilded mason
thank
fading timber
welc
last anchor
Good, lore. NOM
warm ridge
something like Australia or Europe yeah, or a relatively big area of Africa, but not half of north america or half of Asia.
last anchor
Again, depends on the round size mainly.
Like I said, frigate MACs aren't that big.
Im gonna go look up how kinetic rods were supposed to work again
humble yacht
if you're going off of info from the Halo Encyclopedia then maybe MAC rounds could shatter half a continent
but apparently that info is wrong
warm ridge
"The standard frigate-based MAC fires a 600-ton slug around 30 kilometers per second. The high muzzle velocity provides the slug the kinetic energy and momentum necessary to damage a target and partially mitigates its unguided nature and its lack of maneuverability."
last anchor
I dont trust the Encyclopedia entirely.
Especially after the sudden existance of a united innie group
The Halopedia guys are pretty sure the writers of the encyclopedia literally took stuff from Halopedia for the book
warm ridge
that lore is sourced from Halo: The fall of Reach btw.
When we're going to much more bigger, and powerful MAC's such as the ones on Orbital defense platforms, or "Super MAC's" or even the Mac guns aboard the much larger ships like Destroyers which usually contain 2 of them, or even the UNSC Infinity, yeaahh.. Might as well kiss some continents good bye if they ever get fired at Earth at full power.
also one of the reasons why the UNSC/ONI is terrified of Insurrectionist getting ahold of MAC capable weapons, and always attempts to disable them whenever possible even if that means destroying the entire ship by self destruction.
humble yacht
a MAC fired from a frigate would impact the ground with about as much force as a small nuclear weapon
warm ridge
I'd say it'd do a much larger impact then that at full power.
humble yacht
that doesn't sound like half a continent
a super MAC could destroy half a continent, but not a frigate
warm ridge
MAC guns being fired at a planet are practically like asteroids falling down to the planet, just at much higher speeds and with far more force.
humble yacht
the largest nuke in history detonated with the equivalent of 50,000 kilotons of TNT
a frigate mac round would be more like 1.9 kilotons
warm ridge
I don't think it's ever even said how big an explosion a MAC gun can even do.
humble yacht
a 600 ton round fired at 1 km/s equals ~65 tons of TNT
if a MAC round travels at 30 km/s, then bad math would put the energy around 30x that yield
last anchor
Sounds about right to me so far.
warm ridge
"It can fire a 600-ton ferric-tungsten projectile with a depleted uranium core at 30,000 meters per second, and takes several minutes to recharge to full capacity between shots"
last anchor
Yeah I was gonna say
humble yacht
not 30000 km/s
last anchor
METRIC SYSTEM
last anchor
All hail thee and your ability to be base ten!
Anyway yeah, theres just not enough mass to shake a continent in a frigate's MAC.
That said, wiping a city off the face of a planet or making a new lake, triggering a mountain...all possibilities
humble yacht
by comparison, the meteor that killed the dinosaurs had energy equivalent to about 100 teratons of TNT
last anchor
Still cant match that via artificial means juuuusttttt yet.
Also the new Canon Fodder made me smile cause I remember a tiktok my friend sent me from him inside the Covenant Ship Escape saying "okay, who brought the det-tape? Anyone?"
warm ridge
Something I'm really curious about is if the UNSC Pillar of Autumn's ship yard was ever glassed by the Covenant.
BTW, Super Mac's are apparently capable of: "being capable of firing a 3,000-ton ferric-tungsten rounds at .04c or 4% of the speed of light, "
humble yacht
that's the part that is apparently erroneous
last anchor
And still debated to this day.
last anchor
But yes, the Shipyard in Azod was most likely glassed along with about 80% of Reach's surface, if First Strike is to be believed
humble yacht
that impact would still be <2 teratons of TNT
last anchor
They call them "The Big Stick" for a reason.
Seriously, Super MACs are SCARY
warm ridge
It's stated in Halo: The Fall of Reach book, so Idk how exactly it'd be "debated"
last anchor
Especially considering most other universes dont have orbital defenses of similar style.
strong sage
Im under impression that if unsc wants a land to be cleared for other military purposes they can just mac the land 😂
last anchor
Excessive, perhaps. But plausable.
Course, then your sitting in a crater, so
strong sage
Exactly fam xD
warm ridge
According to the note attached to it on Halopedia:
"The Halo Encyclopedia claims that a Super MAC slug is fired at .5c (50% the speed of light), and that its explosive yield is around 9.98 teratons. This would result in an explosion with around 184,815 more energy than the aforementioned Tsar Bomba, or roughly one tenth of the energy released by the Chicxulub impactor which wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago."
humble yacht
read the note above that note
warm ridge
way higher then 2 teratons of TNT.
there is no note above that one? http://prntscr.com/p7v93b
last anchor
.4c seems kind of ridiculous for magnetic acceleration IMO...
humble yacht
scroll down to the bottom of the wiki page, Person
last anchor
But then again this is the same universe that has a car-sized bomb that can do what the Death Star required multiple giant crystals and a caged star to do so
humble yacht
read Note 2
warm ridge
note 2 is describing typical ship board MAC's, not Super Mac's.
humble yacht
ok, but it does say "erroneously"
warm ridge
aka the one's aboard frigates/destroyers.
humble yacht
for ship MACs
so, ship macs can't destroy half a continent
and even if the note about Super MACs is correct
if the dinosaur meteor didn't destroy half a continent
then a Super MAC with 1/10 the energy can't either
warm ridge
@last anchor Death Star was more so for targeting ships via long range and destroying planets by blowing them up 100%. A Nova bomb can't destroy a planet at all, just destroy it's surface and possibly any moon's near by if detonated in a Oxygen rich atmosphere.
last anchor
You haven't read Envoy, have you?
Grey Team literally blew Glyke into an asteroid field, same as the Death Star did to Alderaan
"Shattered" it
Also, no. The Death Star is and always was meant to pulverize planets. Hell, the original one couldnt even target smaller ships. That was something they added in the DS II
warm ridge
We don't exactly know how big Glyke even was, but judging from what the NOVA bomb did to it, I wouldn't be surprised if it was any bigger then probably our own moon, or around the size of Mercury.
last anchor
Its big enough to have gravity and have a sizable Sangheili population so.
Maybe not Earth size, but still. Thats a big bomb
warm ridge
Small sized planets can still have a pretty strong gravitational force depending on what the core is mostly made up of.
last anchor
Ehhh.
Im still pretty sure it was a good-sized planet, it was technically a military target.
So it must have had something there.
I think...
warm ridge
It was a military target due to being one of the many Covenant worlds where a sizeable military force was.
Glyke just so happened to of been destroyed after the war ended all because some ONI personal forgot to update Grey team that the bomb was no longer needed
last anchor
Or, you know, couldn't considering the madness going on at the time.
main rivet
Yeah not exactly would have been easy to recall them.
stoic hamlet
sigh
Well, we know Hazel was born in 2520, making her 11 when she was inducted into Alpha Company.
That’s......really annoying
humble yacht
Why?
stoic hamlet
I am not a fan of them aging up Spartans
humble yacht
Is that too old for a spartan 3?
stoic hamlet
It should be, IMO
.....wait
Why was that deleted
Ghosts of Onyx states that the children were between 4-6 when they were inducted, we have outliers like Emile and Jun who were 7 and 8 which is fine, I guess
But Hazel, like Carter, was 11
last anchor
Older lore said 4-6 years old.
So her being 11 is...odd.
But perhaps she was set off to the side like Carter was
stoic hamlet
Which is really dumb
There’s no reason to age her up.
I wanna know why they made her so unnecessarily old
IIRC she and carter should have been told old for the Augmentations
humble yacht
could ask the same about Carter
last anchor
Maybe they were both Cat-IIs so they got put in anyway cause they were too valuable.
And then both of them got pulled off for important stuff and weren't thrown at the meatgrinder of Promethus
Hazel was a Headhunter and didn't DIE for example
stoic hamlet
She was pulled from the company at New Constantinople
From the newest canon fodder
It’s still super odd and I don’t like it, even if they handwave an explanation
The issue isn’t her skill or whatever
It’s her age
Remember Halsey didn’t take candidates because they were too old, they wouldn’t have survived the procedures, so even two outliers like Carter and Hazel don’t make sense.
humble yacht
but Spartan 3 augs and Spartan 2 augs were different
humble yacht
halopedia says
stoic hamlet
They still had to make sure they were compatible
humble yacht
and too young kids were incompatible with the augs
stoic hamlet
But they should be too old
humble yacht
so even if a 4-6 yo was inducted into the program, they didn't get augs at that age
humble yacht
Halopedia says most S-IIIs were augmented at age 12
humble yacht
so
humble yacht
ok, but still
stoic hamlet
Lucy and Tom would have been 11 or maybe 10
Assuming that Beta deployed in Fall/Autumn 2544
humble yacht
Hazel being inducted at 11 still gives her a year of training before getting augs
plus the post-aug training
stoic hamlet
But it’s totally unnecessary
humble yacht
plenty of time to become a powerful warrior
stoic hamlet
That’s my issue
humble yacht
i don't see the issue
stoic hamlet
She didn’t need to be this old
humble yacht
she didn't need to be super young, either
humble yacht
she could have been any age 11 or younger and it would work with the canon
in the real world we have outliers
humble yacht
maybe she was special in some way
humble yacht
obviously not from natural causes
humble yacht
might be better to call it life expectancy
stoic hamlet
At any rate
humble yacht
yes
humble yacht
they're theorized to have natural lifespans well into the supercentenarian
more like mad science
stoic hamlet
Joined ONI
stoic hamlet
Fhjad
humble yacht
they can, but it's not easy
gilded mason
There's Maria and Randall, right?
humble yacht
Randall managed to adopt a relatively normal life, though not without some difficulty
and he wasn't exactly civilian
Randall had some of his augments removed, yes
it was the only way ONI would agree to leave him alone
gilded mason
remove augmentations
ₐₐₐₐₐₐₐ
stoic hamlet
God don’t get me started, lol
I already have one Halo thing to not be happy about today
humble yacht
i might agree if there wasn't precedent
stoic hamlet
One other character does not equal precedent, IMO
gilded mason
From the Aster page on Halopedia, I can't really see how any of the augments listed could be removed.
stoic hamlet
and it’s not been explained either
Like, at least explain things
Don’t just contradict prior lore without an explanation
It comes off as contrived and half-baked.
humble yacht
i imagine they removed the bone grafts
gilded mason
But those merged with the bones, apparently.
humble yacht
hence why removal would be "excruciating"
they probably also took out the thyroid implant
gilded mason
That wouldn't really matter regarding the implant, since it was a temporary implant that went away as the hormones got released into the body.
gilded mason
this pellet contains a human growth hormone that is released into the body to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues. As the hormone is released into the body the pellet dissolves and is absorbed. The hormone targets and stimulates the growth of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers, effectively producing significant gains in muscle mass.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
humble yacht
yeah i know
i just don't agree with that
seems like someone just chose platinum cause it sounded cool without thinking about its chemical properties
gilded mason
Even if it wasn't absorbed, it already did its job long, long ago.
humble yacht
sure
last anchor
Platinums non-reactive Im pretty sure, thats why it sthere
Least...that makes sense.
Maybe its like, weakened platinum or something.
NANITES!
versed helm
Wat
humble yacht
and that's assuming the pellet is placed in a part of the thyroid where blood flows directly past it
versed helm
Blood is carbonic acid
versed helm
Yes blood has two levels depending on oxygen/co2 levels
last anchor
Still not enough to melt platinum Im pretty sure.
Honestly it would make more sense if the pelet was made of something like biodegradable
(Shrug)
versed helm
Oh. No. But it has a decent acidity at times
It just requires a lot to be particularly effective
last anchor
Thats fair I guess.
humble yacht
carbonic acid in the blood exists as a buffer to keep the pH tightly regulated
a pH of 7.3-7.4 is not gonna dissolve a transition metal
last anchor
Thats like...0.3 past water so...yeah. Not likely XD
humble yacht
yeah, to reactive compounds
if it was a sodium pellet or something, I'd be like "oh yeah, that's getting dissolved/absorbed"
versed helm
I don’t mean a reaction. I’m just referring to the erosive properties of water on things
Different things I know
humble yacht
sure, like a rock or something
humble yacht
metals like in group 1 and 2
last anchor
Platinums pretty unreactive like I said earlier.
Same with gold to a certain extent
humble yacht
platinum is pretty soft (like gold) but if you leave gold under running water for... years... I don't think it dissolves
last anchor
Im pretty sure thats how panning for gold works...
It just sits there, unmoving, in the stream, and then some human comes along and swirls it around and it comes out cause its heavier than most everything else
humble yacht
i thought that dissolved the things around the gold
thus revealing the gold and making it collectable
last anchor
Thats how it starts for the most part, yes.
But gold panning works because gold that ends up in a riverbed tends to just stay there, unmoving.
So, yes, gold doesnt tend to get disolved by water XD
last anchor
Ye
humble yacht
of similar strength to MJOLNIR, I expect
gilded mason
Where was it said his armor is weaker?
versed helm
It's just older.
Presumably, the craftsmanship and available funds/resources in its manufacture account for any technological shortcomings.
gilded mason
I assume perpetual camo is a newer tech, but we don't know about other technology at the time of the armor's creation.
humble yacht
it was largely ceremonial but that doesn't mean it didn't function like a standard combat harness
versed helm
Engravings don't grant a tactical advantage, that is true.
humble yacht
Thank you, Revolver Ocelot
versed helm
But we do know that there is a fairly great deal of variance in the armour quality of one Elite to another, right?
humble yacht
sure, higher ranked elites get better harnesses
versed helm
Right, but it wouldn't make sense to manufacture tonnes of different harnesses with incrementally higher levels of protection, right?
You'd maybe have three or four tiers, depending on cost-benefit.
That tells me that most Elite armour probably isn't munitions manufactured.
As in, the variances in quality are a result of different craftsmen.
fair hazel
MJOLNIR was said to be stronger than sangheili shielding
versed helm
With higher ranked Elites likely getting access too (or perhaps being able to afford) higher quality armour items from more renowned manufacturers.
humble yacht
yeah but what kind of Elite?
fair hazel
arbiters certainly are not numerous at all to be compared to the III program
versed helm
The dynamic of which I speak is something that has been directly alluded to by Halo 5 REQ items.
humble yacht
they probably compared MJOLNIR to a Minor's harness
fair hazel
also arbiters were there first
versed helm
So you'd assume that, whenever it was commissioned, the suit (or suits) of armour issued to the Arbiter would have been created by armourers of the highest prestige.
fair hazel
900 or so spartan-IIIs
versed helm
Since the armour is basically being made for the scions of the Hierarchs themselves.
humble yacht
one could say that a single arbiter was worth at least a whole team (or multiple teams) of S-IIIs, in terms of accomplishing suicide missions
gilded mason
MJOLNIR was said to be stronger than sangheili shielding
Where was that said? Just to have a source around.
fair hazel
fall of reach probably
versed helm
So in that way, without delving into technical bases, if it seems likely that if craftsmanship can mean the difference between a major's and a field marshal's shielding and protection, then incredible craftsmanship could logically mean that a suit that is hundreds or even thousands of years old could stand up relatively well in relation to modern standards.
Especially given the Covenant's plateaued technological advancement.
gilded mason
fall of reach probably
I remember Halsey saying this:
“First,” she told him, “we have replicated, and I might add, improved upon the energy shield the Covenant Jackals have been using against us to great effect.”
but I've no idea if there's something else that specifies Elites as well.
humble yacht
😮
gilded mason
Perhaps, perhaps.
Never cross-checked how much a Minor can take versus a Spartan against the same weapons, myself.
versed helm
The strength of MJOLNIR shields presumably increase in a relatively linear way generationally, though.
The initial shields of Mark V may well have been quite poor by Covenant standards.
Whereas the shields of GEN 2 may be better than nearly anything the postwar factions can muster.
Not that there's a basis for that but it's an example, y'know?
feral perch
And ODST
versed helm
The health bar is probably a stand-in for every biometric readout in the suit doing a checkup on the occupant and providing a simple easy-to-read summary of their operational health.
Medikits are exactly what they are, though presumably applying them would be a more involved process them walking up to them.
Actually applying them would likely involve removing segments of the suit.
Which The Flood directly states you can do.
Right.
Not to get too armchair general here either, btw.
But when we look at energy shields.
feral perch
Has the Master Chief ever canonically been at red bar health?
versed helm
It's also worth noting that there are likely more variables to quality than just shield strength.
And yes, numerous times in The Flood Stonewall.
feral perch
Like slipperiness.
versed helm
One time when he got mauled by a hunter, and another time when he was nearly infected.
feral perch
Oh yeah. It’s been a long time since I read The Flood
versed helm
Well, I was thinking more energy efficiency and long-term reliability when it came to shields.
humble yacht
different kind of armor lock, but yeah
versed helm
Is there an indication that Reach armour lock is actually canon outside the game manual and the Encyclopedia?
Same for invulnerability.
stoic hamlet
Yeah
versed helm
I personally feel as if both those concepts could be represented in a cool way as facets of energy shield usage as Donk said.
But as actually bits of equipment it's a little mnyeh
And sprint is 100% absurd
Imagine if Kelly had safety locks
lmao
humble yacht
maybe
versed helm
Needed to source hardware from Kat
feral perch
It would be nice if Spartan Charge were explained as an armor lock bash
versed helm
In order to go fast
humble yacht
kelly is the only one who doesn't need safety locks
stoic hamlet
It’d be like how in Mafia you have a speed limiter
They don’t need to do that though
gilded mason
"Forgive me, Master. I must go all out just this once..."
feral perch
Is the obnoxious Reach panting canon? heh
stoic hamlet
In MJOLNIR.
humble yacht
i love how in Gears 5, when Kat goes down, she screams "I'm out of biofoam!"
nice touch
humble yacht
but his tendon snapped
versed helm
I just ignore armour ability/equipment lore.
stoic hamlet
We’re using the same model
versed helm
Too many inconsistencies with the EU.
stoic hamlet
Mark V
humble yacht
Chief's first mjolnir was Mark IV
stoic hamlet
Yes
stoic hamlet
But the suit he wore when he tore his tendon was V
stoic hamlet
From TFoR
humble yacht
by the time he got Mark V, he should have been used to MJOLNIR
stoic hamlet
He was
humble yacht
especially, if Mark V was just Mark IV + shields
stoic hamlet
It’s the practice test with Cortana
versed helm
It wasn't a matter of being used to it.
stoic hamlet
He had to go over his usual speed
versed helm
It was a matter of "if I don't go fast I'm gonna die lmao"
humble yacht
maybe she disabled his safety locks
stoic hamlet
I mean, there’s no precedent for a safety lock anyways
versed helm
I mean, even if the safety locks are a thing and so is disabling them
stoic hamlet
Also, V is just IV with shields
versed helm
You wouldn't do so by plugging an oversized USB into your butt
versed helm
Donk, I feel as if in your time here you've grown as a nerd
Since that is actually a really good headcanon
stoic hamlet
It’s a beautiful thing to see
versed helm
And you used to only say dumb stuff
gilded mason
lol
stable schooner
I mean going by Cutscenes Arbiter tanked a short point blank Dual Plasma Rifle Blasts But got shredded by Miranda’s prolonged single or dual Smgs depending on the version.
gilded mason
But got shredded by Miranda’s prolonged single or dual Smgs
He did?
versed helm
So sad Blur didn't give her the dual SMGs
stable schooner
His shields were down and he’s shown wounded
humble yacht
I remember his shields popping against Heretic leader whatshisname
gilded mason
Sesa!
stable schooner
Classic And Anniversary Arbiter looks Beat up after getting blasted by her.
gilded mason
Checking the anniversary scene, doesn't look like it ever fully removed his shields.
Though he does clutch his side for some reason during one shot afterwards while talking to Tartarus.
Maybe he got a cramp.
do they just keep getting sent on hard and harder missions
Probably this one
feral perch
Why waste a good thing, right?
It’s not like it was weighing on their conscience lol
stable schooner
@gilded mason I can insure you though in Classic after watching that darn Cutscene 70 times due to testing Miranda pulls out Dual Smgs, Breaks his Shields, Arbiter stomps Johnson in one hit and holds his arm in a injured stance.
I feel the Anniversary scene disconnects things now cause Miranda still Dual wields a Magnum and Shotgun in Halo 3 Lol
versed helm
There's a disconnect between gameplay and cutscenes in H2A, too.
it's really jarring going from Blur's realistic cinematic style to the bouncy gameplay of Halo 2.
But it's not really a problem so much as a sidenote.
The price you pay for ultra-realistic depictions of the Halo universe.
Well, that and a few reverse-flying phantoms.
stable schooner
When Chief has a SMG in the Delta Halo Blur Cinematic But a Beam Rifle in Classic and Gameplay.
fair hazel
Zuka says that John’s Armour is superior
Also if it is an improvement to jackals Shields. And jackal Shields are said to be stronger than elite ones..
gilded mason
Zuka says that John’s Armour is superior
Ah. Got a quote, for reference?
fair hazel
In the book over there.
Then the monkr@prophet is like. Careful that’s blasphemy or something.
Cause theirs is derived from forerunners
gilded mason
In the book over there.
?
gilded mason
Ah, I found it.
...
“Still, what ’Zamamee says is true,” ’Rolamee put in. “The files are full of reports which, though contradictory in some cases, all make mention of one or more humans clad in reactive special armor. Assuming that the eyewitness accounts are accurate, it appears that this individual or group of individuals can absorb a great deal of punishment without suffering personal injury..."```
copper wigeon
awesome
fair hazel
Momie sheikds did get better as further iterations came
Over the years
Normal Shields not rated for tank fire though sadly
I recommend overshoes
versed helm
erickyboo typos 2
gilded mason
Electric Boogaloo
versed helm
I got 'chu
gilded mason
👌
fair hazel
I should sleep..
gilded mason
Yeah.
versed helm
Though strictly speaking the events therein may have played out a little differently to the in-game representation.
That goes for anything, obviously, but a little more for the Spartan games.
Given their simplistic nature.
gilded mason
Since the entire game is actually somebody playing it on their handheld? 😋
versed helm
It's a genuine 26th century iPad game
gilded mason
I wonder if there were any microtransactions we weren't aware of.
versed helm
Realtalk, though, it's probably some education tool.
Of a nature we cannot comprehend.
Neural implant-facilitated, cloud computing skullduggery.
Holographic stuff.
Very advanced.
gilded mason
Actually, that reminds me. With Dumb/Smart AI around, what in the world does the entertainment industry look like in the 26th century?
versed helm
Weird, I'll bet.
Though smart AI are potentially reserved only for serious matters for moral reasons.
gilded mason
Like, they'd be able to create a whole lotta stuff in a relatively very short amount of time
Though smart AI are potentially reserved only for serious matters for moral reasons.
Good point there. Though seems like Dumb AI would be able to fill the gap well enough.
versed helm
Well, dumb AI encapsulate the entirety of the AI progression we've made to date (and all AI functions which don't require sentience).
So all that modern machine learning stuff is within the purview of dumb AI.
And that's only gonna get more powerful, which I think is what you were saying.
gilded mason
Well that, and the dumb AI in Halo seemed fairly intelligent as well. Able to carry on a conversation well enough.
From what I can remember, at least.
versed helm
They certainly can.
Presumably they draw on enormous databases of interactional anecdotes and such.
Though I'm guessing they're frequently designed to come off as not quite human.
Though it may be yet entirely feasible that the things which appeal to us about stories and fictional universes are something that an entity that is not sentient could never grasp.
Speaking for myself, what I like about Halo is a very indistinct and fuzzy cloud of mismatched emotions and satisfactions.
At its base level.
How do you get something that doesn't have an inner observer to appeal to that?
vivid dust
so uh I was wondering something and I'm not sure it's the place to ask, but I've seen people criticizing Karen Traviss' work on Halo and more precisely her depiction of Halsey, and as I haven't read her books I'd like to know what people think she did wrong
obsidian thistle
Well thats a complex question. I personally recommend reading Kilo-5 to get an idea first. :)
vivid dust
I'm going to lack time for reading in the coming months, sadly
clever fable
Some feel like she demonized Halsey too much, made her out to be a slightly less competent version of Halsey who's just forced to take hits on the chin too often in those books.
Didn't really think it was as bad as some people suggested imo, but that's most of the flak I see thrown in that direction.
vague scroll
Commonly held argument has been that she used authoritative voice to use other characters around Halsey to demonize her. Particularly characters that previously didn’t fit that M.O. such as Mendez and Lucy amongst others, that said, the majority of characters in Kilo-5 come from a background that wouldn’t make Halsey very popular, so the belief that Traviss intended to “bash” Halsey is mostly based on conclusions made by readers, rather than anything concrete. It’s a commonly held opinion but I recommend you read the books as CIA did to make your own opinion. Specifically Glasslands since that’s the main story that really focuses on that nature.
I personally enjoyed Glasslands though there were times I had to put the book down to consider whether Traviss’s writing made sense to me. But I’ve had that experience with recent Halo novels as well. I feel it’s more a matter that I’ve begun to shape a particular expectation for the Halo myth is that doesn’t quite fit the framework and reading Halo novels more has helped me reconstruct that framework, sort of a reality check. I still have about a quarter of the franchise novels and short stories that I have not yet read.
fair hazel
I like huragok
vague scroll
@gilded mason @versed helm if I might bring up last nights topic on 26th century AI in the private market, would it be much of a stretch to say that Smart AI didn’t yet play a pervasive role in human society due to societal inhibitions? Given we don’t see Smart AI beyond very massive tasks like planetary biosphere maintenance or military and scientific ventures. We haven’t yet seen private sector AI in smaller roles and I’d imagine that it hasn’t been until the Post-War era that we’ve begun to see transitions.
strong sage
Lel ericky 😂👍
vague scroll
There’s little items in the lore here and there that at least suggest such a phenomenon. Things like starship captains being against the use of shipboard AI even given their indispensable role during the Covenant War, only recent adoption and easy acquirement neural lace technology in the private sector as of 2558 which has often been treated as a integral part in the evolution of Human-AI relations, and the still surprised behavior characters get around Smart AI as seen with select characters in Hunt the Truth.
It doesn’t look like Smart AIs, or even Dumb AIs have reached a stark point in integrating into human society just yet, still playing more sideline roles.
So, it seems AI don’t run the media industry quite yet.
strong sage
Anyways i was reading spacebattles forum that, do you guys agree that while in terms of ground warfare for the unsc side that their ground vehicles isnt that uhhh good enough but what makes them stronger is their aerial and naval assets?
vague scroll
That’s the opposite conclusion that’s held in the novels tbh, the UNSC has usually been described as a equal to the Covenant on the ground but never a match for them in space.
Sure, the vehicle designs of the UNSC aren’t particularly the most realistic or safest options, but generally, they’ve been described as formidable enough
stoic hamlet
It’s pretty much a given the UNSC has sacrificed armour for speed
And considering what they go up against it makes sense why
Two tons of armour isn’t going to help you when it melts from a plasma strike and either locks the crew inside to burn like a human oven.
humble yacht
too bad the Covenant is still faster
stoic hamlet
Aye, but in terms of firepower, if the UNSC can outmaneuver a Wraith plasma mortar, which has quite the splash and impact range, they’re golden
Even regular Banshee plasma repeaters near missing have been known to score kills or wounds.
full forge
Why are the Flood bad shots in the games?
humble yacht
to account for there numbers, maybe
and to further differentiate them from the Covenant
carmine sleet
They're basically space zombies and while they do inherit the memories of their host, that doesn't nesecaily mean they'd be good shots. Plus gameplay would be horrible if they were good shots
humble yacht
lore-based reasoning could be that combat forms lack fine control over motor functions (aiming, precisely squeezing trigger, etc)
full forge
Rocket Flood are great shots.
And I don't think they'd be a threat to the Forerunners if they couldn't aim.
carmine sleet
Overwhelming numbers would be
humble yacht
as well as the virulency and the die-hard nature
full forge
Did you notice in Halo 3 that the gravemind isn't using all of his resources to stop the Chief?
humble yacht
That’s one way of thinking
full forge
You know how he knocks the Chief and Arbiter off Johnson's pelican in the Citadel with his big strong tentacles? He does that, and just retracts them after he's done with his show of force.
humble yacht
Another is simply gameplay
When does chief use johnson’s pelican?
Oh now I remember
full forge
I'd have expected a flood hive like High Charity to just be covered in combat forms. The first room entered doesn't even have one.
humble yacht
One very likely reason is because the gravemind is prideful
Arrogant
And likes to toy with his prey
No fun in a quick death
carmine sleet
Having a level begin with us being swarmed by combat forms would've been horrible. Almost every level with Flood on gives the player a small amount of time before you start fighting them
full forge
Wasn't that how Mendicant Bias lost? He was arrogant and assumed Offensive Bias was making a last stand
full forge
The level could of began outside High Charity, where Chief lands.
nocturne wyvern
Really
carmine sleet
That would mean they'd have do designs for the exterior, which they didn't want for the level as it was meant to feel clostrofobic, something that can't be achieved on the outside of High Charity
full forge
I mean, they had to do at least most of that work for the cutscene anyways.
humble yacht
The background of that cutscene wasn’t a 3d environment
It was 2d art as the backdrop
full forge
Still. It doesn't feel like the gravemind is using all his resources.
humble yacht
Pride cometh before the fall
full forge
Like, it's his home and the only forces he uses against the Chief are combat forms/pure forms
humble yacht
What else would he use?
Tentacles aren’t exactly suited for grabbing small, quick targets in confined areas
full forge
His tentacles, vehicles, something that Chief can't just slap with one strike
They come in different sizes.
humble yacht
How you gonna drive a vehicle inside high charity?
carmine sleet
Aye, vehicles would be highly impractical inside where Chief was
humble yacht
Save for maybe a banshee in the really open areas, but that’s a stretch
A combat form can pilot a ghost but piloting a banshee is a whole different thing
carmine sleet
Maybe for chasing the Pelican, but if I recall, there's no way a Banshee could get into the open areas Chief got into
full forge
Anything would've been better than the fight he put up tbh
carmine sleet
I'm guessing that you're never tried flying a vehicle indoors
humble yacht
Maybe a book adaptation of that level would depict the kind of fight you’d expect to see
humble yacht
lack of ambient particle effects in that level were due to game limitations, I bet
vivid dust
oh my I'd forgotten the wrench thing
full forge
never trust a wrench
fair hazel
I like huragok and thenkoko five trilogy has lots of fun huragok
That’s why I said that
full forge
This is a fact.
versed helm
It's possible that they are one of the races that are not able to be infected due to the way they are. Hunters are like that as well I believe.
They don't have a central nervous system
Biomass isn't infected, anything can be turned into biomass
vague scroll
Flood don’t need a central nervous system to infect you, it’s just necessary to make a combat form.
If you’re biological, you’re infectable.
We see this in both Halo Wars and Halo Wars 2
The very environment becomes corrupted by Flood
Infected engineers are briefly seen in Halo legends
versed helm
They probably couldn't do much anyways
vague scroll
Huragok are more susceptible to the Flood technically because of threat of logic plague
More so than organics
Either way, anything biological is infectable because of the Flood supercell which is infectious animal cells capable of absorbing, converting and replicating itself on a mass scale in a very short period of time
We see this when one of the Marines in The Mona Lisa suddenly become infected after being stabbed by a Infection form, but it takes a while
Minutes to an hour
versed helm
Artificial
vague scroll
They’re mostly made from nanomachine-like particles though their bodies behave very reminiscent of biological creatures
versed helm
Mostly were used for suicide bombers, and keeping their machines nice and tidy
yes
I don't think they could be logic plagued since they are only focused on their own work, nothing else
They have no attack, they're extremely docile, i'm unsure I've ever heard that before
vague scroll
Docile doesn’t mean they can’t turn aggressive or violent or commit deadly acts
versed helm
I've never heard of a huragok being aggresive
vague scroll
They’re capable of suicide by their own volition if it means one of theirs escapes enslavement (Virgil)
Under orders or individual loyalty, they’ll willing fire you out the airlock
stoic hamlet
And they can kill people with rocks :3
strong sage
As of post war created conflict is Code Corrupter still in effect?
carmine sleet
Code Corrupter?
vague scroll
Flood infection of Spartan personnel, it’s only in effect if the UNSC is still following it’s own laws.
And a code corruptor doesn’t remain in effect, it’s called when the event happens and they respond with nuclear hellfire and that’s it.
gilded mason
Who?
carmine sleet
They want Arby
ripe lichen
Arbiter
gilded mason
Ah.
vague scroll
We know nothing of that possibility
There’s no reason that he needs to be there
But there’s no reason that say he can’t be there either
vague scroll
Other than that he’s the Arbiter and leader of the Swords of Sanghelios and needs to help defend his besieged planet against the Created
ripe lichen
Who knows jappa
gilded mason
Hopefully there's at least one important Elite character in the game.
vague scroll
I think it was said he was of Scandinavian descent.
It’s all conjecture most likely. Just call him Echo 216 pilot.
ripe lichen
awwww i can remember Echo 419s voice makes me fry
vague scroll
Foehammer
ripe lichen
Im gonna cry
gilded mason
Dustin E. Chos
vague scroll
Sumwhan frmonee
ripe lichen
So Cortana is more or less a flood contaminated AI ?
feral perch
No.
humble yacht
no
humble yacht
someone told you their personal theory
feral perch
There’s no real evidence to conclude that Cortana is doing anything under the influence of the Flood.
ripe lichen
So why is she doing all this
feral perch
No Gravemind is known to exist at this time, so it would be very unlikely.
Because she’s a rampant fragment.
ripe lichen
Explain
gilded mason
So why is she doing all this
Could simply be because her Rampancy is corrupting her previous values.
humble yacht
Remember in H4 when Cortana ejected rampant personality spikes into the Didact's ship?
some of those fragments made it to the Domain
(this is for @ripe lichen )
feral perch
The fragment that arrived at the Domain following the events of Halo 4 was cured of its rampancy, but not the personality changes caused by rampancy.
feral perch
In a manner of speaking.
copper wigeon
but the domain couldn't fix her already shattered personality.
humble yacht
apparently not
clever fable
"I'm a doctor galactic hard drive, not a psychiatrist. "
gilded mason
As StoneWall said, she may not technically be rampant at the moment, based on her own words, but her personality is still warped.
humble yacht
she's not rampant in the sense that she's deteriorating
versed helm
She is definitely rampant, or getting there
humble yacht
Rampancy in Halo (for human AI) is a terminal condition
symptoms include personality changes
She's no longer terminal, so she's not rampant in that respect
humble yacht
Serena chose to decommission herself as soon as she noticed her deterioration was a danger to others
she didn't let it progress to the point where she was drastically changing emotionally
metastability is no longer an aspect of rampancy in Halo
versed helm
I was meaning with the Flood outbreak, Chimera
humble yacht
that old Rampancy definition from Marathon no longer applies
I know, Olive
once she noticed she was a danger to the crew, she decommissioned herself
versed helm
True
humble yacht
it took a death but she never let it progress to the point that Cortana reached
If Chief weren't so lucky, Cortana probably would have gotten him killed back at Ivanoff Station
versed helm
He was killing flood with a chair, it was beautiful
gilded mason
Hm?
versed helm
what is it you're asking?
gilded mason
I think the Cryptum would've taken care of that detail
versed helm
It was forerunner technology, very well could of stopped aging completely if that's what you're meaning
he probably wouldn't be physically able to fight at that age
not unbreakable
to regular humans, and probably everything but per se a Brute, hunter or something with a lot of strength and force
humble yacht
there's no talking in the cryptum
versed helm
She wanted to try to change his mind after it was done, whether it would of convinced him is all guess
humble yacht
only thinking
Cortana in Halo 5 saw Chief as more an object to own than a friend
that wasn't full stasis
the cryptum hadn't closed yet
versed helm
It's been some time since i played the campaign, Cortana was communicating with Chief throughout the campaign, though. if that's what you mean
humble yacht
technically
in H3, the Gravemind was telepathically broadcasting cortana messages to the Chief
in H5, she contacts Chief through the Domain
versed helm
The Gravemind was logic Plaguing her
versed helm
Almost worked
well, she almost did, but Chief got to her before he was able to complete it
Remember, in H3, cortana was lost
Only certain AIs can not be Logic Plagued
Offensive Bias wasn't able to because of how he was made
He was designed to only destroy MB, so he just dismissed the Gravemind
vague scroll
OB never encounters the Gravemind
vague scroll
Your point doesn’t stand because there has never been a pretense that shows he has resistant to logic plague
Because he never encountered the grave mind
humble yacht
at the time that OB was created to counter MB, the logic plague had evolved to the point where it could convert other AI just by contact
vague scroll
The only way for logic plague to occur is to have a proper encounter
humble yacht
it was quite advanced
But MB, unlike OB, was created with the potential to defect to the Flood, because of how he thought
OB was cruder, less creative, and singular in purpose
there was no room to consider the Flood's argument
versed helm
But how would the gravemind be able to speak to the AI when he only had one sole purpose
vague scroll
It’s the difference of a Smart AI and a Dumb AI
humble yacht
no
OB would still be a Smart AI by human standards
just a soulless, boring Smart AI who's not much fun
and probably couldn't hold a convo
vague scroll
By human standards, right. But the issue, is logic plague occurs through rewriting thinking process through communication at a basic level
humble yacht
early stage logic plague, yes
advanced stage doesn't require the communication part
vague scroll
OB should be infectable by that measure either way
versed helm
So, would OB be able to possibly defend against the earlier part of the Logic plague?
humble yacht
unless he lacked to ability to even consider the argument within the plague
it's also possible that he never contacted MB or any other AI infected by it and instead just attacked
vague scroll
I’d argue he just never encountered them
The issue with logic plague as a concept is that if you’re able to “think”, you’re susceptible
versed helm
I thought so
vague scroll
Then it sounds like my point about the dumb AI, I’m not saying he is a dumb Ai, I’m saying he falls under the same category
He’s singularly focused
humble yacht
then after, OB told IsoDidact that he was still loyal to the Forerunners and not infected by the logic plague
vague scroll
He is limited by his programming
humble yacht
who says Dumb AI can't be affected by the plague?
vague scroll
They can be, but the point of logic plague is that it’s a mind game, a series of questions and considerations. Dumb Ai would be susceptible but that’s only because they’re just really advanced computers
They don’t actually have free will
Only the illusion of one produced in their programming
It would be easier to simply rewrite the AIs code rather than bother with logic plague
Logic plague is better intended for so-called “volitional AI”
AIs with self awareness
The way you describe OB, sounds fundamentally that he has no free will. He only has his programmed parameters. Finish the mission no matter what.
humble yacht
Or, you could think of MB having the mindset of a philosopher/scientist, while OB has the mindset of a soldier
soldiers have free will
they choose to follow orders
they choose to follow orders
vague scroll
They still have to think and make decisions however for themselves, that’s a fundamental necessity for any good military personnel. Doesn’t really make sense that AIs can just get off Scott free with some explanation like a “Lalalala I’m not listening” switch
humble yacht
We can
vague scroll
So there is something going on there that greatly lowered OB’s mental processes to the point of resistance. He really shouldn’t have that unless something more behind the scenes we don’t know about is going on. It’s not as simple as he refuses to listen. Cause that could be argued other AI could replicate said process.
Or.... weird thought all of a sudden, they simply removed his capacity for curiosity.
humble yacht
That’s another way of saying he didn’t have the capacity to follow the flood
Which is what I said to begin with
Which is how MB describes it
vague scroll
Alright, my point is something is inherently different about OB that makes him different from other AIs. I’m not saying he’s a dumb Ai, but the equivocal behavior of simply doing as he’s told and nothing more sounds a lot like one.
Curiosity is one aspect I think that could work but that in itself makes him like a dumb AI since a factor that separates real life expert systems and human intelligence is the the conception of self-awareness, which were not even sure exists. And then that robots don’t have the capacity for curiosity without it being a learned trait rather than a born trait.
This is in the scope of neural networks anyway with all computer programs being built on a risk/reward learning curve.
But yeah, I read your point wrong earlier. I was trying to reach the same conclusion from a different angle. That OB is equipped with something inherently different from some magical “anti-logic plague” technology. Something was done to him that fundamentally made him resistant, but when you water down what logic plague is supposed to be... it means anything that thinks should be susceptible.
If the Gravemind wanted to convince a fox it’s a dolphin, in theory, he could do that.
humble yacht
OB could think though
The only difference between how OB and MB thought is really what they thought about
vague scroll
It’s why I offered up curiosity as a alternative I guess? I think removing an individual’s ability to be curious removes something that also makes them inherently human.
The ability to ask questions, the ability to process problems in ways not already patterned into the brain processes, a lack of empathy or relation.
humble yacht
Humans aren’t the only kind of sentience in Halo, though
vague scroll
They’re not but our definition of sentience defines the series.
All the alien and AI archetypes are human archetypes at the end of the day.
sacred dew
Actually in the last book it was stated any AI got infected once there were sufficient amount of keyminds as in being in the area was enough
to get infected
vague scroll
Keyminds refer to any variation of Gravemind in its lifecycle
It used to mean a specific type of Gravemind but HW2 made it a general term
clever fable
Kinda hope they stop doing that.
The capital G Gravemind, graveminds, Keyminds, Key mind planets, w/e
vague scroll
when you have a lot of different writers working on a very big project, retroactive rewrites and retcons will expectantly take place, and they can be both good and bad
there's nothing inherently wrong about these kinds of changes though they do bring people confusion
clever fable
I'd say the confusion is reason enough to not do it.
sacred dew
It varies from a mobile command form to a planetary reality warping gravremind
vague scroll
Best way I can recommend you understand the term Keymind, it refers to the Gravemind life cycle.
everything under the sun that is a Gravemind, is a key mind
clever fable
I know what they are, I'm just saying that I hope they clear up their naming conventions, or reasons behind those decisions. Having an overarching naming scheme is fine, taking a generalized term that was already used for something else, and then fitting that into the overarching slot will cause confusion though, and shoulnd't be done. There's any number of new names that could be used there. It's not a big deal, I just hope they don't keep doing it.
warm ridge
I wonder if OB is still even active to this day, or in hibernation.
humble yacht
Wouldn’t be surprised if OB terminated itself after bringing MB to the ark
carmine sleet
No
humble yacht
You probably thinking of the monitor of the Absolute Record
humble yacht
Trial, imprisoned, a fragment escaped,
Got found by covenant, eventually fragment made it back to the ark, MB reformed, helped Chief by keeping Installation 08 stable while he escaped
Commented that he expected to die on the ring so that’s currently the working theory
last anchor
Its in a short story found in audio logs at some point I think?
Its called the Trial of Medicant Bias
humble yacht
OB split him into pieces to weaken him, then took the pieces to the ark
The IsoDidact presided over the trial
The goal was to imprison MB there for all eternity so he could reflect on his guilt
full forge
imagine trying to kill all life in the galaxy, and then someone else does it first so you can't win
sacred dew
Ok thanks
unique rune
That sounds... vaguely correct?
Memory is a bit fuzzy on its history.
gilded mason
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/weapons/prophets’-bane
It's an old ancestral sword from his keep's vault, but when upgrading it, Thel had components from the sword he used to kill Truth installed on it.
gilded mason
But wasn’t the sword he used to kill truth just a normal energy sword...?
Yes. Which is why components, not the entire thing, are part of the other sword.
Yes.
While the weapon was repaired and regrown in the traditional manner in his clan’s forge, the Arbiter insisted on incorporating components of the energy sword that took the lifeblood of the Prophet of Truth on the Ark.
unique rune
The sword he used to kill Truth would have likely been manufactured at one of High Charity’s many assembly forges, but the End of Night would likely have been constructed before the Covenant was formed.
gilded mason
Yes
unique rune
The unique elements of the handle and blade shape are just personal modifications made to the sword.
gilded mason
Yep.
unique rune
Make it more recognizable and uniquely his.
gilded mason
Carefully.
unique rune
Varies by temperature, I’d imagine.
gilded mason
No?
stoic hamlet
It’s pure energy
It’s not really possible to be less effective
(Well technically it’s plasma, but you know)
unique rune
IIRC ‘Mdama remnant swords supposedly don’t burn as hot as old Covenant swords, so they’re don’t cauterize as effectively.
But I dunno how that really factors into the Prophets’ Bane.
gilded mason
Well, it ain't exactly real plasma, from what I've heard. Just stuff that's called plasma
versed helm
It's a thing that is in the state of matter we call plasma.
If it's not
Then I don't know what I'll do with myself frankly
gilded mason
Ah, this is where I remember it from:
https://www.halopedia.org/Plasma
Frank O'Connor, during his tenure as Bungie's head of public relations, stated that the plasma used by the Covenant is not plasma as current science knows it, but something "far more dangerous, arcane, and destructive."
gilded mason
lol
stoic hamlet
Ah, Frankie, never change
gilded mason
True
stoic hamlet
I wonder if he knows what he just described it as, lol
remote spruce
Probably covering for why Broot plasma is red
stoic hamlet
He called it dangerous, old, and dangerous again, essentially
stoic hamlet
All sentient life
gilded mason
Anything using a nervous system, or something
stoic hamlet
Ye
? It is.
It definitely kills the flood
But not their cells......or something
versed helm
Isn't the current interpretation that it kills smart flood
gilded mason
Flood Supercell?
versed helm
but not things like infection forms
unique rune
don’t think about it too hard
the rings work on confusing plot space magic
stoic hamlet
I honestly can’t recall.
gilded mason
but not things like infection forms
That's what I've been goin' with.
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure it kills enough that infection isn’t possible from anything that was inside the pulse.
Even if it’s still “alive”.
Well the gravemind isn’t one entity.
versed helm
"It doesn't kill the Flood, it kills their food."
The raw interpretation there is that the Flood are just chillin' and if they don't get new biomass they die.
But we know from newer lore that the firing of the array disrupted the Flood, right?
versed helm
It affected MB and OB's own little battle
gilded mason
Yeah
versed helm
Well strictly speaking there's multiple Keyminds.
Which are all parts of the Gravemind.
I think?
Like there aren't literally multiple Gravemind sentiences.
Nah, Keyminds are any Flood form that can coordinate other forms.
They used to be what you said
But Awakening the Nightmare sorta clarified the term
They still exist
And are Keyminds
But they probably have their own unique term
gilded mason
"Very bad thing"
versed helm
Depends how and why they show up really
carmine sleet
At most, I'd accept the Flood existing within a Firefight-like mode as one of the enemy types you can face, but I don't want them in the story
versed helm
Well, as we know, Halo Installations tend to have captive Flood on them.
And for whatever reason those Flood tend not to stay captive for long.
Evidently one of the last things the Forerunners did was underestimate the Flood xD
humble yacht
On installation 04, flood broke out because of humans
On installation 05, flood broke out because of a abstentee monitor
But installation 03 and 07 have reported no flood outbreaks
I think flood outbreaks are a rare occurrence among all forerunner installations
vivid dust
There's also the Halo Wars shield world
sacred dew
The found that shield world during the war but we're unable to enter until the humans let them in
versed helm
I feel the flood in halo wars 2 were kinda forced
humble yacht
Me too
versed helm
still love the game, but i feel they forced it in there just to show them.
obsidian thistle
I04 actually can be debated if it was Covies or Humans.
That released the Flood that is
Its a close call regardless
humble yacht
Sure. It seems more likely that it wasn’t the covenant tho, since they were familiar with the flood
While humanity had no idea and therefore no caution
obsidian thistle
The Covies legit believed it was a weapons cache.
Halo: The Flood goes into that.
And the Flood were already going about when Keyes and company arrived.
Thats the case for the Covies releasing the Flood.
The case for Humans (or more John and Cortana) is when Keyes and co were heading to the facility. John turned off a security system. We have no idea on the full effects of that bar what we experienced.
One could infer that it had the extended effect of turning off the security at the Flood Research facility.
So really its a coin flip. Or a mix of both.
Yea I looked too much into this when someone asked me about this. It actually lead to me realising that revelation.
carmine sleet
Depends on what they're most skilled in, for example, the most skilful sniper is Linda by a long shot
lunar condor
I dont think we know nearly enough of what 6 has done to actually say that though
and what we did on halo reach as 6 is impressive for human standards, but spartans prolly do that kinda stuff pretty often
at least in the covenant/human war era
humble yacht
6 was described as being “hyper lethal” to draw parallels between him and Chief since both are player characters
lunar condor
I think they just wanted to portray the main character as also badass even tho hes not the Chief
so they put that in there
humble yacht
Exactly
lunar condor
Im not even sure what that term really means tho
hmm cuz if we are going by confirmed kills
the crew of a starship that survived the war
prolly has more kills than any spartan
humble yacht
Well
lunar condor
if we count how many enemies they kill by blowing up 1 enemy ship so i find it a pretty weird term in general
humble yacht
Chief did give the covenant back their bomb
versed helm
It's a reason 6 isn't really in lore at all, besides in game
lunar condor
the individuals with the highest K/D ratio were prolly the admiral in Halo First Strike
humble yacht
The original Noble 6 also got an entire ship’s worth of kills on his own
versed helm
true
humble yacht
He still got the kill credit
stoic hamlet
Please tell me we aren’t talking about “hyper lethal” again, please.
lunar condor
I mean if we just go by kills didnt Admiral Whitcomb blow up a fleet of allegedly 500 covenant ships with the space station?
XD
carmine sleet
Someone did bring that up, Elternal
stoic hamlet
noooooooo
He shattered a moon and killed all life on the nearby planet as well @lunar condor
versed helm
it's more of a marketing plot to make him seem more badass
lunar condor
oh yeah he did also give the covenant a bomb
versed helm
Red Team is technically physically like 19 years old during HW2
stoic hamlet
I swear to god, lol
versed helm
They have a Gel layer that also helps absorb impact Donk
lunar condor
I would guess a combination of a heat shield a drag creating structure and a parachute?
and well once you reach terminal velocity while dropping it really doesnt matter how high you are dropping from
versed helm
Also, he's Spartan-III in MJOLNIR armor
stoic hamlet
Spartan III’s are as strong , fast and durable as a Spartan II, Gammas are stronger and more durable when under stress.
versed helm
They have the drug Ceramic Carbide Ossification that makes their bones nearly unbreakable
stoic hamlet
You just said up above they were weaker? @versed helm
humble yacht
Effectively the same result as the bone grafts the S-IIs got
Except without painful surgery
lunar condor
Like it doesnt even matter if its Spartan 2 or 3 or 4s, if you see a team of spartans raiding your position
you are all kinds of dead anyway
humble yacht
Yeah, I think people get too hung up on which generation of Spartans is “best”
versed helm
IVs with the new MJOLNIR armor make them on-par with IIs and IIIs
lunar condor
If some gigantic 7 foot tall saurian monster creature is scared of a mean green boi then i think squishy 6 foot human should be terrified
stoic hamlet
They all do different things, some things better than others
versed helm
Mostly, IIs have way more experience
stoic hamlet
Aye, but it’s been said that’s the only thing making them “better” than the III’s
humble yacht
There are different kinds of skill so you have to narrow your query
versed helm
Buck is probably the most skilled IV
stoic hamlet
Ehhh, maybe out of the ones we know of
versed helm
But yea, saying most skilled is very vague
stoic hamlet
But it’s possible there’s more skilled ones
Maybe the most veteran would be a better word
versed helm
there's not one spartan who is better in everything than another
humble yacht
Well that’s not true
lunar condor
I wonder how long spartans can actually operate in combat like to what age
versed helm
I mean, MOST of the IIs are around their 40s physically except red team
stoic hamlet
Nah, probably actually mid thirties biologically, cause of cryo. @versed helm
carmine sleet
Didn't Jun say something along the lines of "No Spartan is likely to die of old age" to Buck in New Blood?
stoic hamlet
Ye
lunar condor
Someone analyzing the augmentations on a scientific level was saying that age wise they are probably "Immortal"
versed helm
Red team is biologically like 19 Eternal
lunar condor
like not that they cant die, but that they kinda stop the "bad part" of aging like until the day they die of old age they are supposed to be in their prime
versed helm
They are still humans, i think of it like captain america, He is able to live to be around 150 due to his insane healthy physique and high metabolism
humble yacht
That’s not how aging works.
lunar condor
Tho obviously these are like sci-fi augmentations so no idea what they did
humble yacht
We do have an idea of what they did tho
lunar condor
if they wanted to make spartans immortal they could always pull up some forerunner augmentation outta nowhere
humble yacht
Please no
stoic hamlet
Upgrade seeds amirite?
humble yacht
Even forerunners weren’t fully immortal
lunar condor
I hope not as well XD but i think about it the more halo games we get that we cant be the master chief forever
especially with all the time skips
in his 40s biologically id think?
stoic hamlet
I say less
lunar condor
hard to say exactly with all the time dilation and cryo
stoic hamlet
Mid 30’s
stoic hamlet
Mhm
lunar condor
Also still wondering what the things chief received from the librarian are
except the immunity to the composer
humble yacht
Connection to the domain
versed helm
All spartans are
humble yacht
Which would explain how he could hear the Didact’s psychic message and see Cortana’s message
versed helm
not the way you're thinking of
lunar condor
I mean hes still human id think or what passes as a human when you are a spartan
lunar condor
struggling to see it is what id say yeah
versed helm
it's what made kurt so special, he knew they were humans
he was far more "emotional" than others
humble yacht
Chief’s struggle with his humanity isn’t because of the forerunner geas
lunar condor
most emotional spartans ive seen are probably Naomi and Kurt yeah
versed helm
I know, chimera, i was responding to Phoenix
lunar condor
I mean theres probably nothing "wrong" with their mental state, but they only know what being a spartan is and what being a soldier is
seems abnormal to people that are not those things
but a spartan would prolly think spartans are normal
humble yacht
A spartan 2 or 3, for sure
versed helm
There's this one scene in H4, where lasky is on the ship after john just lost cortana, and Chief says "as soldiers, it is our duty to protect humanity" and then lasky says "You say that like humanity and soldiers are two different things, i mean, we're just people" and then chief just quickly looks at lasky
humble yacht
Spartans like Jorge were outliers
versed helm
I mean, it didn't really work well
I don't think we have any examples of a Spartan-I being stronger than a regular human
Johnson for example
humble yacht
If spartan IIs are like Capt America, then Spartan Is are like batman