imagine if the UNSC didn't cheap out and gave all the III's Mjolnir
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
stoic hamlet
In the roles the III’s found themselves in
Ehhh
MJOLNIR without shields isn’t as durable as people think
Linda died to two plasma pistol bolts, remember
Sam has his suit breached by one
stoic hamlet
SPI, similarly, can take one or two bolts before the suit is breached.
versed helm
The stealth aspect was arguably the best thing about the suit
stoic hamlet
It still is.
IIRC no MJOLNIR suit is as stealthy
Even the dedicated ones
At least as far as I know
stoic hamlet
Cloaking isn’t what I’m referring to
They give off absurd amounts of heat
Anyone with thermal or infrared would be able to see them with no problem, no matter how well visually camo’d they were
versed helm
but the shields make them so much more durable, and they get more enhanced with MJOLNIR
versed helm
SPI was basically inexpensive, and quick to produce
stoic hamlet
MJOLNIR is more durable
versed helm
Could anyone wear SPI?
stoic hamlet
But SPI is basically impossible to detect
Yes
But a Spartan would still get the most out of the suit
versed helm
I know it slightly improved the users abilities, so i was unsure
stoic hamlet
Mostly the feet and hands.
So a regular person could run faster and lift s but more
versed helm
again, stealth aspects
stoic hamlet
But a Spartan doesn’t really need that anyways.
versed helm
need what? the stealth?
stoic hamlet
The strength
versed helm
and with Beta Company, the Covenant already knew the III's were there before they got to the place
Or so i think
stoic hamlet
They did.
versed helm
So they didn't get the stealth advantage necessarily
stoic hamlet
But the factory garrison panicked and ran at the sight of them.
They had the advantage of looking like ghosts and mirages
Like they were incorporeal
warm ridge
@versed helm S-IV's are inferior to S-II's.
An S-II in a MJONILR Gen2 variant will always be stronger/more experienced then a S-IV in a MJONILR Gen 2 variant.
This is all because of the muscle/bone/etc enhancements, generally surgically made. It's also why Halsey see's the S-II's as the perfect Spartans over the S-III's or even the new S-IV's.
stoic hamlet
Halsey is incredibly biased and should not have her opinions be taken 100%. She’s not a reliable judge of Spartan abilities
stable schooner
Oh boy here we go again, it was nice knowing you all I’ll be back when this debate is over in 3hrs lol
stoic hamlet
Heh.
carmine sleet
What was it that Halsey said to Thorne in Spartan Ops, something like some of the S-IVs were more worthy than others to be Spartans
stoic hamlet
Something like that yeah
carmine sleet
Thought so. Obviously that doesn't translate to those people being the same strength as an S-II but still
stable schooner
Yeah she says some are closer then others though I don’t know if that was shade for or against Thorne
stoic hamlet
Bias clouds everyone
gilded mason
though I don’t know if that was shade for or against Thorne
Definitely looked like she was approving of him
stable schooner
You know watching those trailers I’m once again confused on ODST colors. Are they unit, rank or speciality based. Seems really inconsistent
humble yacht
Halsey was dismissive of thorne at first but then he said or did something that made her see him in a more positive light
So I don't think her comment about Thorne being more Spartan was frivolous
versed helm
I would say that if you asked a 343 employee if SIIs or SIVs were "better".
It is blindingly obvious that the answer you'd get is that they're different but equal.
If you're like me and want to take an approach to the universe that is at lest semi-realistic and empathetic, then it's a meaningless question with little point answering since circumstances dictate victors 100% of the time assuming every is at a base level of competency, which they are.
If you want try and puzzle out an answer based on sources, then the conclusion you invariably reach is that GEN 2 MJOLNIR overcomes any physical gap between SII and SIVs and leaves them on a relatively even playing field as far as physical output regardless of user input. SIIs may have more experience as Spartans, but SIVs will almost always be exceptional individuals and hardened combat veterans.
All that I can unequivocally state based on the millions of times this has been gone through.
stoic hamlet
| but SIVs will almost always be exceptional individuals and hardened combat veterans.
Madsen leaves the chat
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
Presumably the fact that Madsen got a shot represents his mother's input.
But I assume no matter what she did, if he didn't demonstrate some level of exceptionality he couldn't be an SIV without the nepotism clearly agitating those around him.
Which it doesn't. He seems to have Majestic's respect, for the most part.
But I will admit to trying very hard to ignore his seeming lack of knowledge as to what active camo - a very basic fixture of 26th century combat in Halo - is.
stoic hamlet
He’s just a sheltered boi
versed helm
The obvious out-of-universe answer is an instance of poorly thought-out dialogue. Presumably, in-universe, it was just an awkward moment for everyone involved.
And Madsen later cringed out about it before perhaps bringing it up with Majestic to clarify that he did in fact know what active camo was and just misspoke.
To which they responded "yeah, don't worry, we'd already forgotten about it".
But secretly were all actually quite relieved.
stable schooner
So if Arbiter died would the Swords Of Sanghelios Actually lose?
gilded mason
I would assume he has people at his side that would carry on without him
It'd be silly for him not to.
But that does remind me: I really hope we actually get a rundown on the SoS's whole deal at some point.
carmine sleet
That would be nice to see
stable schooner
I want to learn what happend to the surviving Elite Councilors
gilded mason
We've got a whole lot about the UNSC, but basically nothin' for the Swords. 😥
carmine sleet
My guess is some Councilors joined the SoS and others, who likely didn't believe in Arby's vision for the Elites after the end of the war, went off to do their own thing
stable schooner
Gotta imagine having Councilors on his side would contribute greatly to his Legitimacy
Exact details like this though would be amazing. How many Colonies does the Swords controls, what’s their fleet size, what’s their race composition do they control non Sangheili planets, hows their Economy anything really
gilded mason
And have they ever considered maaaybe changing their name?
stable schooner
Lol true anything with just Sanghelios isn’t very inclusive
gilded mason
Yeah
stable schooner
Man Covenant were Genocidal caste based Monsters but Covenant was a real good name for it
gilded mason
I dunno. Some poetic-soundin’ thing. But I ain’t no writer.
carmine sleet
Maybe they could adopt the name of a Sanghelios native animal or something like that?
stable schooner
How much do the Swords Of Sanghelios plan to expand anyway. Like just being Elite Worlds lost its luster when you have Grunt and Hunter Members
carmine sleet
It's likely Arbiter isn't so much about simply having control over colonies but moreso about making alliances with various colonies as a coalition of sorts
gilded mason
“Guidebook to the Cultures of the Halo Galaxy”
stable schooner
Are they a new Covenant in a matter of speaking
stable schooner
Alliances sounds like Equality Based Covenant Lol Basically
stable schooner
Lights of the Covenant, Swords of Truth, Swords Of Certainty, that’s all I got without using complicated big words for names
gilded mason
Hm... The Principled Blades?
dawn veldt
"Covenant" kind of has a religious connotation to it. Does anyone know if the Swords of Sanghelios has a religious component? I'm pretty sure the Arbiter basically became an atheist after he learned the truth.
gilded mason
Probably not officially. But I imagine there are members that are still religious.
carmine sleet
Swords of Truth wouldn't be a good name considering that they ended the Covenant by killing a guy called Truth
gilded mason
lol
carmine sleet
If anything, Swords of Truth would more likely be a group loyal to Truth's ideals
stable schooner
True which is why I also suggested Swords of Certainty as their not blinded from the truth like the old Covenant. I’d imagine Foreunner worship would be allowed as long as it doesn’t include the rings
gilded mason
The Rectitude Expanse
versed helm
What do you think is the status of Offensive Bias?
gilded mason
Status: Bored
fair hazel
what are we discussing about madsen not knowing?
tropic sandal
lol ostral
full forge
What about Mendicant? He believed he would be destroyed on the Ark correct? But the Ark wasn't actually destroyed by the firing of the replacement Halo because of Tragic Solitude.
humble yacht
MB was on the ring
versed helm
Would be cool if in a future game we release MB, and when the lead character travels to its facility, and that's Epitaph
warm ridge
a S-II wearing GEN 2 MJOLNIR means it creates a physical gap between the S-II's and S-IV's.
pretty sure partial fragments MB was on the Ark locked way, not on Installation 08.
humble yacht
MB was reconstituted when truth arrived at the Ark with the missing fragment
The reformed MB later tells Chief “you don’t know the contortions I had to go through to follow you here, Reclaimer”
MB didn’t follow Chief to the ark; Chief followed MB
(Indirectly by following truth)
So “follow you here” refers to MB moving to the ring itself in order to assist Chief
It’s implied that MB is the reason the ring holds together long enough for chief to escape
And possibly why it falls apart in a way that leaves a convenient path to the Dawn
stable schooner
That’s sad now I’m depressed for Bias
last anchor
He did kinda deserve it tho
She didn’t reactivate them after putting her helmet on. Not sure why.
humble yacht
Glassing beam functioned as an emp and probably shorted her shields
Blamite is tough
Regularly pierces armor at slow speeds
From the rifle it’s kinetic energy was much higher
last anchor
Size and mass
feral perch
Sometimes Needler rounds are depicted as bouncing off Mjolnir in the books iirc.
Blamite is an oddity, for sure.
last anchor
It’s weird stuff. Omniusful it seems
versed helm
I guess incidents of needles bouncing off armour would occur when they impact at unfavourable angles.
last anchor
I mean, the needler's kind of useless unless you get the red-reticle tracking in 5, I assume its the same in canon
strong sage
Could it be needler rifles can have settings for their firing speed?
versed helm
I don't see why that would need to be the case in this situation.
But it's certainly feasible, especially if the firing mechanism is gravitic in nature.
woeful dune
So if needles have been known to bounce off armor, would it cause shield to decrease slightly? Kat took a needle straight through her helmet but its unknown whether or not her shields were active. (Most likely down due to the glassing)
stoic hamlet
It could also be the type of helmet
stoic hamlet
Air Assault isn’t a MJOLNIR helmet, not originally. It’s likely the only real changes to the helmet were internal, but the actual helmet remained the same as its Airborne version, and we know Marine armour isn’t as durable.
obsidian thistle
There is "debates" if the "-class" part of the armor variants in the games means that every variant is "multi-platform".
obsidian thistle
Well here is a good way to imagine it.
Needle based weapons (not the crystal) are glorified crossbows. They launch the crystal at a high speed that is able to pierce armor.
stoic hamlet
Crossbows have trouble piercing armour though
Even heavy arbalests
But I’m just being pedantic
obsidian thistle
Well I am comparing it to a human weapon. When there is alien stuff involved.
stoic hamlet
It could have been a modified Needle Rifle for Zealot use. Harder hitting, more accurate.
obsidian thistle
Needle based weaponry is interesting.
Once the Needles are charged they become attracted to excited materials.
Hmmm I wonder what a magnetic round would be like if it was fired out a crossbow at a metal substance it would stick too.
Thats the closest comparison I can legit imagine in real life.
Blamite is unreactive on its own. Its when it gets charged is when it becomes reactive.
And we have no idea on its properties beyond that
humble yacht
Perhaps the “excited material” the blamite detects is the shielding
For marine armor, doesn’t the UNSC coat it in a material to help heat dispersion as a measure against plasma weaponry?
carmine sleet
I believe they do in the later years of the war
humble yacht
If that’s the case then that material could also attract activated blamite
copper wigeon
But activated blamite attracted to humans before they implemented proper countermeasures against the covenant, I believe the material that activates and attracts blamite is organic tissue
stoic hamlet
Gameplay
Alternatively it recognizes the heat signature and gets a lock on
Or something
humble yacht
do needlers home in on Moa?
obsidian thistle
I'll test that :O
Seems like a interesting thing. Even though friendly/neutral units are a weird case
strong sage
Is it possible Assault rifles uses blamite rounds? Heh
humble yacht
there must be some way the covenant designates a suitable target for blamite
humble yacht
But if blamite was just attracted to heat, then even in lore, the needles would just seek out hot things
but that's not how they work; they go for a single target. there must be some targeting mechanism
obsidian thistle
Well Biological material would be "excited".
humble yacht
what if there is something like a infrared beam that the gun projects, marking a target with whatever signal that attracts/excites blamite?
copper wigeon
something like that would explain why it's so easy to switch targets
like a soft lock on when the target is painted with the laser
humble yacht
exactly
could have been a separate discovery the Covenant made that allowed weaponization of blamite
then if you tie that to the Covenant's "friend or foe" system, even if you look at an ally it won't mark them as a target
obsidian thistle
Well just tested. Friendies and neutral targets do not attract blamite in gameplay.
That said Moa dont even appear as "anything" at all.
They aint red or green. Which means all weapons dont work on em like normal targets.
humble yacht
no aim assist
obsidian thistle
Yep. Zero of that.
Like anything that makes the game slightly easier is not there.
humble yacht
how is blamite described in the books? do needlers retain their homing function?
are there ever descriptions of blamite scorch marks on walls or ceilings or something like that?
stoic hamlet
I don’t think they’re ever described as homing
obsidian thistle
Brb checking the visual guides
humble yacht
you've got this image from Forward Unto Dawn on halopedia were a unarmored woman is pierced by several needles, but an armored marine just to her right isn't targeted
stoic hamlet
At least not to my memory
IIRC in the lore the Needles don’t home in but there’s more of them and they’re faster..
obsidian thistle
Ah got it
The first visual guide says
"The shards launch toward a targeted heat signature, tracking and impaling it."
The second (ie the Halo 4 one) says
"When launched, these shards home in on targets with astonishing speed and persistence, usually impaling the target."
The needles need to be charged however. Otherwise they are indeed unreactive.
Yea maybe I was wrong on the targeting end to a degree.
@humble yacht ;) You beat me there.
humble yacht
i like to think that some poor sangheili accidentally discovered the combination of factors that would mark a target for blamite while innocently mining crystals on Suban one day
obsidian thistle
There is a "theory" that the crystal is Forerunner building blocks essentially.
humble yacht
i.e. he pointed a laser pen at his friend as a joke and then a bunch of crystal shards swarmed his friend
days since workplace accident: 0
obsidian thistle
Shame most of the useful Subanese crystal info was with High Charity.
last anchor
Well at least they figured out how to integrate them into Carbines now
I've always had a headcanon that blamite was first used as a jewlery accessory (cause its pretty and glows and would make some killer looking stuff, hehe) and then someone accidentally blew themselves up putting their chains on and someone went "hey wait."
feral perch
I’ve heard they’ve switched to synthetic Blamite in some places
You would think Suban would be looking like the DreamWorks moon by now.
last anchor
Depends on how big it is.
Also I think someone else once said blamite like...REGROWS?
Self-replicating crystal.
Thats why you reload the needler by flicking it so the needles pop up out of the top
Actually, for Infinite; can we see the character shoving new crystals into the weapon finally?
obsidian thistle
Well actually if First Strike is to be head to a standard. John never reloaded a Needler till then xD
And even then it was a Engineer that did it
last anchor
I dont even think it reloaded it, it just sort of poked it and twisted something and it went from being broken to working again all of a sudden.
Cause John got it and a sweet "Combat Evolved!" medal by getting it flung to him by a grenade blast so
stoic hamlet
It doesn’t really seem odd that John had never reloaded a Needler until then tbh
He wouldn’t be using the weapon often, if at all, and any time he grabbed it he wouldn’t want to use it, he’d want to keep it intact for ONI.
stoic hamlet
Bravo (unsurprisingly) got Oblivion early. I’ve gotta check my local bookstore and see if they’ll break the date.
obsidian thistle
Tip: Keep Oblivion discussions in #485883236430512168. And ensure that we "allow" said discussions first.
Thankies.
last anchor
I mean, its Bravo
stoic hamlet
True
full forge
So how do y'all think Spark reacts to Cortana's Cortanage?
carmine sleet
What?
gilded mason
As in, what he thinks of the current Created situation?
humble yacht
not sure that Spark recognizes other AI as Reclaimers, so
he's probably against it
also, Cortana gave him lip back in the day
versed helm
I wouldn't be surprised if guilty spark didnt care
carmine sleet
Spark would likely care about what's happening, especially considering that Cortana is taking over the galaxy by force
full forge
Y'all are gonna wanna read Renegades so you're 100% up to speed.
versed helm
Fair, I just always saw him as someone who really doesn't care who wins in the end, he just helps you if you ask nicely.
full forge
He definitely has opinions and goals.
gilded mason
Yeah, Renegades gives some development, so I've heard. (Still gotta read it at some point, myself)
carmine sleet
I'm currently reading Renegades so you know
full forge
Are you liking it Slip?
carmine sleet
I am very much enjoying it
Already ranking high so far in terms of my favourite Halo novels
full forge
The audiobook reader for this one isn't Scott Brick for once ;)
And she does a really good job.
No offense to Scott Brick ofc, I think he does an alright job. But changing up narrators is amazing.
You can listen to I think 10% of it for free on Google Play iirc
last anchor
It fires shards of crystal and charges them as they exit, exciting the material
How so?
Needler's a big weapon
Because they're "safe" until they exit the barrel and probably require a couple seconds to charge in-flight
Yes, actually, I think thats exactly what it does
obsidian thistle
They dont explode because, if any analysis is certain, 1 needle wont blow up harshly and can contain the energy for a small amount of time.
But the more needles in 1 surface, the energy cant discharge fast enough and gets all reactive and blows up.
last anchor
And they sort of...unite, right? The combined explosions feed off each other like a fuel/air bomb.
A single needle will still cause serious issue though especially if it hits soft flesh
obsidian thistle
Something like that.
woeful dune
Why do the needles explode when there are so many that have punctured armor/a body?
Is it explained anywhere?
humble yacht
those are ammo cartridges for the needlers
i think
the large chunks are just a casing
and inside are the needle shards
either that or it's just a large whole chunk of crystal that the gun turns into shards
but no, i doubt they could function as a grenade of sorts realistically
humble yacht
mines as in the crystal mines, or a mine explosive device?
a blamite grenade would be an interesting weapon but it would have to be explained differently or designed differently than those ammo casings
I could see a blamite grenade functioning in similar design to a spike grenade
last anchor
It looks so silly
humble yacht
I’d like to see an explosive blamite device that retains tracking characteristics of the needler
Like the needles all come out at once and chase a target
An of course, a secondary explosion if a bunch managed to catch you
last anchor
Seeker grenade
versed helm
Would be dope to see an antimatter charge again
obsidian thistle
Actually @humble yacht gamplay (which may be simulation only) has the shards chase you
versed helm
how is Blamite able to seek targets?
copper wigeon
That has never been explained really
woeful dune
Did the Sangheili have an commendations/awards given to them from the Covenant?
gilded mason
Like, individual Sangheili having their service/actions rewarded?
woeful dune
Yes
gilded mason
Yeah
woeful dune
Like what?
gilded mason
At the very least, I suppose things like ship postings, promotions, and other privileges, like having custom weapons made for example.
woeful dune
Were there any specific titles?
gilded mason
For fairly unique titles, Arbiter was considered very prestigious for a long time.
versed helm
Also Honor Guard was pretty prestigious.
full forge
There were many different special forces in the Covenant it seems. Zealots, Silent Shadow, etc
How come the Spirit of Fire crew doesn't reopen the portal to Voi? Surely Isabel would know of it right?
feral perch
That’s the only known way of accessing the Ark, so yeah
The point is that the portal was shut down and can’t be reopened currently
full forge
Wasn't it shut down by the Banished?
feral perch
We don’t know.
There’s a lot left unexplained by the end of HW2
and odds are we won’t get a third game any time soon
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure the Created shut it down
Or MB
It shut down, then a month prior to HW2 the Banished showed up, but it’s not said how long the portal was out for.
feral perch
Oh yeah, you’re right
The Ark’s failsafe measures cut the Created off from using the portal
by turning off the portal
According to Halopedia, anyway
stoic hamlet
Mhm
warm ridge
@full forge Because they don't know how to open it. Isabel likely knew of the portal (she was the one that told the Sprit of Fire) but has no idea how to activate it again on the Ark or where it's controls even are on the Ark.
last anchor
Maybe, maybe not.
warm ridge
@feral perch @stoic hamlet
Actually the original Portal that was created due to events of Halo 3, shut down due to massive damage to the Ark.
It was then re-activated by a Engineer from Earth that was borrowed from the Swords of Sanghelios named Drifts Randomly, that actually worked on the Keyship which activated the Portal at all, so they could get back to the Ark and stop this false "count down" that 00 Tragic Solitude did in order to trick the UNSC so 00 could further repair the Ark with materials from the Sol system.
As far as we know from this point, the Portal was shut down again immediately after the Created took over Earth during the end of Halo 5. The Ark's failsafe measures did this to keep Cortana from accessing the Ark.
stoic hamlet
That’s......what I said.
warm ridge
not really though.
feral perch
I already knew all of this.
warm ridge
then why was the question asked
stoic hamlet
| As far as we know from this point, the Portal was shut down again immediately after the Created took over Earth during the end of Halo 5. The Ark's failsafe measures did this to keep Cortana from accessing the Ark.
This is basically what I said.
feral perch
Did you read everything?
warm ridge
I read it all but it didn't really match the actual lore entirely, so I said it from the exact point.
no need to start a argument over it, just read and move along.
stoic hamlet
....then why correct us For something that didn’t need to be corrected?
That’s very much starting an argument
warm ridge
I read it all but it didn't really match the actual lore entirely
feral perch
There’s no point in making a distinction between the portal pre- and post- Hunters in the Dark
none
warm ridge
there is though lol
feral perch
why?
stoic hamlet
You’re being unnecessarily pedantic
warm ridge
because a lot of people don't actually realize the original portal shut down and have no idea about the events in Hunters in the Dark
so again, I explained the entire thing from then the portal was activated, shut down, activated again, and shut down again.
I don't see why your starting a argument over this
gilded mason
Probably because you were trying to make it sound like they said something incorrect.
feral perch
but... it has nothing to do with the events in 2558.
ah forget it
I hope we get COG Gear and SPI armor sets in Halo Infinite
gilded mason
SPI
That'd be nice.
versed helm
I mean the problem is
If we got Gear plates
CIA would start trying to make them canon at all costs
And that would be weird
last anchor
Well, we could have something like Venator
last anchor
Which is plainly inspired by Dead Space, but isnt actually dead space
TBH Gears plates wouldnt seem too out of place in Halo.
versed helm
They're quite distinctive, though.
last anchor
Never said they weren't, just you could make something inspired by them fairly easily
versed helm
But then again, so is DS Engineering gear, so point taken.
feral perch
They got Emile and Kat. It’s only fair.
last anchor
Bingo
versed helm
I mean as long as it's not actually COG armour plates
And is done like Venator
I'd be content to have it be canon
last anchor
If I have to take one though, I'll take SPI.
Or "Ghost-class MJLONIR" which is basically a fanversion of what a GEN 2 SPI set would look like
humble yacht
There are other ways gears could cameo in Infinite beyond armor
Weapon skins, for instance
obsidian thistle
I was mentioned? :O
last anchor
Easter eggs will probably be inevitable
Also yes, give me a Crimson Omen AR skin plx
feral perch
My fondest memory of Halo 4 MP is grinding assassinations for Venator
last anchor
You too Stone?
Man, I still have my last one saved. Stabbed a dude with a flag for it
feral perch
It’s such a sick armor set, and the Dead Space appeal was there for me too
obsidian thistle
In general I prefer not to worry about stuff unless they happen. So if COG armor happens we will see how 343i, flavor text, and so on deal with it.
last anchor
Easy
obsidian thistle
Exactly
feral perch
Flagssassination composes/disintegrates the victim, right?
obsidian thistle
I like how we dealt with FOTUS on Halopedia. We put a note stating "Fotus throughout this source continues the joke of "acquiring coffee." Therefore, this is not a reliable source. However, as the only source available it should be taken as canon until a more official source gives the Armor its information."
Could do with an update
last anchor
To be entirely honest with you CIA; with the less jokey version in 5 describing "shadow wars" in Seattle, we might actually have reason to see the jokey stuff as more canon than before
I would assume since it sounds more official its not a joke anymore right?
last anchor
At least in War Games.
Im pretty sure theres an actual helmet somewhere, cause the description reads to me like the helmet is a physical thing
Interpretation is avalible, yes, but thats just me
obsidian thistle
Well the "only" odd helmet atm is OLIVE
last anchor
Actually on the subject of the Timmy helmet, anyone else think it kinda looks like the SPI helmet?
I know Pilots closer but
stoic hamlet
I’d need to look again
Also, SPI was retroactively made to look like Pilot
But it’s nowhere near that depiction on the initial cover art
last anchor
Agreed
Then again theres probably variations of SPI same as every other suit of power armor in the UNSC.
But the Timmy helmet defininetly looks more like SPI than the pilot helmet
last anchor
And the lack of the side panels the pilot helme thas
obsidian thistle
Well there is a theory the numerous "classes" of armor like EVA and so on can be used on the SPI platform
stoic hamlet
(Also not a fan of variations of SPI, grumble grumble)
last anchor
I mean modularity.
Ex; the Headhunters armor
stoic hamlet
It seems like most MJOLNIR armour wasn’t developed for MJOLNIR initially so it seems likely the case would be the same with SPI
Yeah I know what you mean. I just prefer them all being the same.
last anchor
That was kind of how Nylund made it seem
stoic hamlet
It was like, our last hold over from before “Everyone looks unique for reasons!”
Because that’s how it should be
The entire point of it is that it’s supposed to be cost effective and cheaper, granted it seems this cheapness comes from lacking many of MJOLNIR’s systems, but the armour should have a dozen different looks.
It should have one look, IMO, with Spartans customizing the armour but retaining the look.
obsidian thistle
Well there was enough leeway to allow variants
last anchor
The UNSC does like its modularity
stoic hamlet
Like that one Spartan that put the Aquila on their visor
last anchor
Oh yeah from Mythos. That madman
stoic hamlet
Small touches that show individuality while still keeping the “its the same armour”
obsidian thistle
Oh yea that Aquila on the visor is essentially another SPI variant
feral perch
The visor is different
obsidian thistle
The Mirage and Rift variant appears on the same art
stoic hamlet
By that logic Kelly having a rabbit on her chest plate instead of her number on the cover of (was it a comic?) is a different variant.
feral perch
It’s shaped differently from standard SPI visors
stoic hamlet
It’s the pilot like helmet
feral perch
I see
stoic hamlet
You can see an EVA one on a dead Spartan
But it seems more artistic interpretation
Because they’re all wearing the same body armour
obsidian thistle
Actually the full art has 2 different bodys if I recall
stoic hamlet
It seems like there is two different types actually yeah
One kind of like descending/ascending plates, and another more flat against the mid section
Olivia on the cover of Last Light is wearing the plates one
While Veta on Retribution is wearing the flatter one
It could be a removed armour piece though?
obsidian thistle
Here is the normal SPI with the Mirage-class helmet.
That be from the same art.
stoic hamlet
Second image hasn’t loaded for me
obsidian thistle
The undersuit (or underpinnings) of SPI seem to be the constant part.
Semi-Powered after all.
stoic hamlet
Yeah.
If the second image is the one I think, (the Aquila or the EVA) the Aquila has the same armour as the jumper, minus the helmet
But the EVA has a different but similar body armour
feral perch
the first image is our beloved GoO cover-esque variant
stoic hamlet
Oh it just loaded for me
obsidian thistle
Um I'd argue the Aquila one has a different suit.
feral perch
the second one is some harsh, angular imposter
feral perch
probably
obsidian thistle
Well I'd say they all are different variants.
feral perch
I guess.
obsidian thistle
Well different parts
stoic hamlet
But like, Roland’s variant or “the Mark armour” are too different for me
obsidian thistle
The normal suit itself is a mix-and-mash.
feral perch
Am I the only one who misses when you couldn’t tell what gender a Spartan was until they spoke or removed their helmet?
stoic hamlet
For SPI it makes sense that you can
obsidian thistle
Having both a Mirage-class helmet and Rift-class gauntlets.
stoic hamlet
For MJOLNIR it’s different.
feral perch
I know, but I meant for Spartan-IIs
stoic hamlet
Like Red Team is still like that
But everyone else isn’t
And you aren’t the only one to dislike it
obsidian thistle
Makes sense for armor to evolve as time went on and experiments to be done.
feral perch
Red Team is great
stoic hamlet
Even if it means we’d lose that Spartan booty, I wouldn’t mind keeping that unknown
feral perch
oh goodness, Linda and Kelly in H5G
stoic hamlet
They were beautiful, shush.
feral perch
I didn't say they weren't. Also I gotta give Collateral Damage credit for making Blue seem varied but agender.
feral perch
I've accepted it. :/ I actually liked the mecha thing the artist had going.
The Fall of Reach 2010 edition cover art will always be my ideal Spartan depiction.
feral perch
The comic adaptation was neat, but it did irk me a tad seeing Reach variant helmets on them. It's cool, but the way Nylund wrote those first books made it seem like the UNSC just didn't have the resources for all that.
feral perch
Hm. I like what Silent Storm and Collat did for exploring the early war, but it does seem like the early-war UNSC has retroactively become more powerful.
feral perch
Alrighty.
stoic hamlet
I can say they’re more powerful in different ways than you might think
feral perch
Is it a worthy sequel, though? Or more of a cash grab?
obsidian thistle
Well you could interpret the same armor thing as same armor platform.
stoic hamlet
That’s what I’ve done
obsidian thistle
I mean most cases bar a few the Spartans wear the same "GEN1" base.
stoic hamlet
https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/d45rzt/no_spoilers_my_thoughts_on_oblivion/ @feral perch my non-spoiler thoughts
feral perch
oooh cool
obsidian thistle
Be it Mark IV, or V.
Exception being John wearing the Legends armor when Kelly and Fred wore Mark IV (b) in FUD.
feral perch
I think Mark V is the odd-man out in Mjolnir. The other generations/marks more closely mimic human musculature, but Mark V is just thick.
gilded mason
The perfect-est armor.
feral perch
Am I alone in preferring the original Bungie Mark V to the 343i Anniversary makeover?
gilded mason
No, I and many others feel the same
feral perch
CEA Chief has such tiny hands
obsidian thistle
I prefer the Halo 4 Mark V tbh.
That be my fav iteration of the armor
Has a handle on the back and I just find it so visually appealing
*FYI I have no idea why it has a handle on its back.
feral perch
it's so you can carry your Master Chief as you go!
last anchor
I always figured it was part of the holstering system
obsidian thistle
Real shame the visual guide never went into detail on the DLC armor of Halo 4
Seeing as they werent out at the time. I know I know
full forge
The shape of the Halo 4 Mk IV seems interesting. I'd like to see it holding a BR55, and with a gold visor.
carmine sleet
Mark IV wasn't in Halo 4, only Mark V and VI
versed helm
Is there a reason why Halsey in Halo Legends looks so young?
Or is it just artistic license?
gilded mason
The latter
obsidian thistle
Best to not assume it was all. And that its limited to Cobalt atm.
One could think that
full forge
Mjolnir is vacuum rated, so it's without a doubt waterproof no? What happened in Collateral Damage?
stoic hamlet
We know there’s MJOLNIR purpose built for underwater combat now, a GEN2 variant
Oceanic. An apt name
humble yacht
Isn’t Mako also suitable for aquatic ops?
stoic hamlet
It isn’t Scout and reconnaissance. It’s a test bed for new technology
It has no specific role
obsidian thistle
Fun fact that font is used on Covie Terminal screens in Halo 4s campaign
If you want a small challenge. See if you can see it. And the small typo.
https://www.halopedia.org/images/5/50/Control_Pannel_Halo_4_Spartan_Ops.png
versed helm
not looking for a specific year but if yall have it thats cool but when did the marine/army armor system change in the halo universe? always thought halo 3 combat armor looked superior to 4/5
remote spruce
generally based on eras
there's the Halo 2 Anniversary marine armor, which is also in Halo Wars
that one is before the Covenant War
the Reach version is somewhere right before and during the war
Same with the Halo 3 one
versed helm
My answer would be that they never really changed at all.
The UNSC just has an absolutely bewildering variety of equipment that is all constantly in circulation.
I think there's ways in which you can convincingly divide up different bits of UNSC body armour through headcanon, but the amount we actually know about UNSC body armour is punishingly small and there's no real lore precedent for any kind of absolutely rock-solid interpretation.
The interpretation the relevant Halopedia page has gone with, by-the-by, is practically headcanon.
But there's no real clear logic to the appearance and equipment of regular UNSC soldiers in the field, and there never has been. It's impossible to even say if any design is supposed to be a retcon of any other - some might say that the Halo 3 design is a retcon of the Halo 2 design because of the Encyclopedia calling the Halo 3 armour M52B, right? Yet Halo Uprising features both Marines in Halo 2 battle dress and Halo 3 battle dress, and crates with Halo 2 body armour designated M52B appear in Halo 3 and Halo 3 ODST.
Plus a few other things on top of that.
So basically, you can think whatever you want when it comes to UNSC body armour because there isn't any truly official answer to any question you might ask. I tend to just let myself believe in the moment that whatever design of Marine body armour I'm currently looking at is canon unto itself, with designs outside of which being dubious. If I'm not currently trying to immerse myself in a bit of media I tend to favour the Reach style of UNSC armour being the definitive interpretation of the UNSC soldier, with the exception of postwar when the 4 and 5 designs come into play.
Any interpretation is valid.
Are the armour sets that appear in Halo Online being tested at Anvil Station canon?
Oh yeah, and before you say anything the precedent is that designs seen in anniversary games are supplemental, and not retcons unless it's a unique object like a city building or a Halo ring itself. So on Installation 04, UNSC Marines used CE classic, CEA and Fireteam Raven BDU designs. And both MA5B and MA5C rifles (the latter using 60 round mags like how MA5Ds can use 32, 36 and 54 rounds mags) - though some people would inexplicably disagree with me on the MA5 point.
carmine sleet
Magazine sizes for specific weapons differ in the real world, don't see why someone would complain at the MA5D appearing with different mag sizes in Halo 4 and 5
versed helm
Oh, the point of disagreement is that what is depicted in CEA is a canon depiction of an MA5C taking 60 round mags and not a non-canon depiction of an MA5B.
versed helm
Might be as simple as different regional manufacturers.
But I think the most obviously plausible interpretation is that near enough any MA5 can receive any magazine that is intended for usage with an MA5. So you could load an MA5B with a 36 round mag, or an MA5D with a 60 round mag.
Otherwise the logistical clusterfrag would be extreme.
And to hell with the old b-net lore about the MA5C and MA5B.
Oh?
DM me.
Right now.
stoic hamlet
Will do.
fair hazel
NO oblivion spoilers here
versed helm
Regarding magazine size.
I like to think the MA5B is an automatic rifle variant of the MA5 series. Like the real-life M27 and RPK.
Perhaps it uses quad stacked magazines? Which could be a logical explanation for the 60 round capacity?
last anchor
Maybe, but the mag looks pretty small and thin.
vague scroll
what's a quad-stacked magazine?
You mean like a drum mag or a H&K C-mag?
ah, you mean quad stack as in quad stack ammo, okay. I got it.
last anchor
Magazine with four rows of rounds packed side by side.
vague scroll
yeah, the lingo caught me as odd.
last anchor
Its possible but with 7.62mm rounds the magazine would be THICK
Like, .50 Beowulf thicc
vague scroll
if it was something like a bulletstorm or a caseless ammunition concept, I would say it were probable.
But unfortunately we do know the dimensions of the MA5B and the casing it uses.
so, most likely not.
versed helm
Are the MA5B’s magazines ever seen in-game?
frozen lagoon
Wait I always forget which gun is used in the game but I’d assume it’s seen during the reload animation. Never up close I think but you could probably check in theater
If he gun used in the games is the MA5B
versed helm
The MA5B is the Assault Rifle in Halo CE.
frozen lagoon
Got it
fair hazel
versed helm
That’s an ammo pack not a magazine unfortunately.
If it was the actual magazine it would jut out of the gun a lot more.
Kind of off-topic by the way but have you guys seen the concept art for the MA5B? lol
The influence of Aliens can definitely be seen in it.
idle ether
From what i remember they did kinda say they got some inspiration from Aliens I think for a number of things
From guns to characters and their lines
This was way back in the first game if i remember correctly
versed helm
I know, you can take from yourself from an artistic standpoint.
humble yacht
usually people don't cite their own previous work as an inspiration
versed helm
They don’t, but it’s fair to say that Marathon was a sort of proto-Halo in a lot of ways.
It was the first game to have Oddball, fun fact.
remote spruce
Though wouldn't that be better than saying they yoinked some stuff from other franchises?
humble yacht
it's the same thing phrased differently
versed helm
In Marathon though it was named, “Kill the Man With the Ball”
humble yacht
if you're a glass half empty kind of person, you take it negatively
call it "copying"
but that's just people trying to frame it as a bad thing
frozen lagoon
Homage =/= copying
versed helm
Personally I don’t see it as a negative if you use your own work as a basis.
frozen lagoon
Yeah no it’s definitely not wrong to build in your previous work
humble yacht
i was responding to penguin's point
versed helm
There’s nothing wrong with being inspired by other people’s work either. I think anybody who truly thinks that is kind of being silly.
frozen lagoon
So was I but then Jon responded to mine so I responded to him and yada yada bam
versed helm
Ker blam.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Predator, was also an inspiration for Bungie when it came to Halo.
The Sangheili are based on the Yautja.
frozen lagoon
Changing the subject a bit, but Grunt Birthday Party is 100% canon, right?
versed helm
Hopefully
frozen lagoon
I thought Sangheli were more xenomorph samurai dudes
versed helm
Nah, they’re more derivative of the Yautja.
fair hazel
Making comparaison too much ot other stuff can lead to false perceptions
versed helm
Both are noble alien warriors who use bladed weapons and invisibility cloaks, and have similar jaw shapes too.
frozen lagoon
Ah I see
versed helm
Sangheili are a lot less fair though. At least a Yautja will spare you if you’re unarmed. lol
Also for some people that’s definitely true Erickyboo, but personally I think it’s cool to see what makes up a lot of Halo’s DNA.
frozen lagoon
Actually in one of the H2A terminals exactly that happened.
Covenant was attacking some human colony or whatever but the UNSC wasn’t prepared for the attack at all. Vadamee led his forces to the planet surface and found a military base. When he got in there, however, none of the soldiers were armed — the attack had started too quickly for them to even get their weapons equipped. Vadamee ordered his elites to allow the soldiers to arm themselves before slaughtering them all.
Although I’m pretty sure it was stated that that kind of courtesy wasn’t commonly shown to humans
versed helm
It definitely wasn’t lol. The innocent civilians who died on Reach could vouch for that.
dusty siren
Wasn't it because humanity was an affront to their gods?
frozen lagoon
Yes I believe so
Humanity was seen as the devil to the gods that were the forerunners
idle ether
Weren't they also "low key" jealous of the fact humans could easily activate forerunner stuff as well?
humble yacht
Only Spartans were considered demons
gilded mason
I don't think so, as far as I can recall. Maybe the Hierarchs were, by virtue of "knowing" they were the ones left behind.
frozen lagoon
Okay — Spartans were demons, but humans were definitely unholy affronts to their gods
dusty siren
@humble yacht you got confused
frozen lagoon
No it was only Spartans that were demons he’s right
humble yacht
Spartans were considered demons because they were actually a threat
like on an individual level
frozen lagoon
Yes
dusty siren
He said Devils as in an unholy affront
severe bone
I wonder if the prophets really believe the Great Journey was real
And if they knew the truth, why did they continue leading everyone to their doom
feral perch
They didn’t know what the Halo rings actually did. They just knew the humans would mess everything up.
gilded mason
Because from what they could tell, humans still being here meant ascension wasn't a for sure thing.
vague scroll
ODSTs were referred to as imps, the designation Demon is a uniquely Spartan phenomenon.
humble yacht
The covenant religion was built on the idea that they were the chosen ones
Humanity’s existence as reclaimers (which only the high prophets knew) was bad for their PR for two reasons:
- it meant that the covenant weren’t actually the chosen ones
- it meant that the great journey wouldn’t grant godhood to everyone
If either news got out, the prophets would have lost all credibility
severe bone
Ah i see, thanks!
last anchor
Im pretty sure at least some of the Covenant called ODSTs "Blacksuits"
strong sage
Ehhhhhh thats new? Weren’t they called imps as well?
last anchor
It is new, it was introduced in the most recently released Halo novel
(Wait, did Silent storm come out first or Renegades?)
Also I do NOT remember them being called imps
stable schooner
Brutes call ODSTs in Halo 3 ODST Imps
last anchor
Must have missed that
vague scroll
@last anchor Silent Storm came out before Renegades, followed by Oblivion.
last anchor
which isnt officiall out yet where I am (mumbles) Curse you bookstores and your dedication to proper release dates, let me have my lore!
last anchor
Please do
I mean it doesnt matter too much, Imma check the rest of the stores this week but go righta head
obsidian thistle
I still wanna see the end of the Last Light trilogy. If there was an idea for one
stoic hamlet
^^
versed helm
So, in Ghost of Onyx, when Halsey and Kelly are in the Beatrice getting attacked, who were they being attacked by?
carmine sleet
Onyx Sentinels
dusty siren
Is that book the follow-up of first strike? But with Halsey and Kelly?
feral perch
Yes.
versed helm
It's about them, and the Spartan III's
carmine sleet
Ghosts Of Onyx is a follow up to First Strike, but doesn't just follow Halsey and Kelly. It mainly focuses on the S-IIIs as well as what happens to Blue Team right after the beginning of Halo 2
feral perch
Kelly and Halsey don’t appear until you’re around halfway through the novel
carmine sleet
Indeed
dusty siren
Oh
carmine sleet
Honestly though, Ghosts of Onyx is well worth the read
dusty siren
Well all I've read are fall of reach, the flood and first strike
feral perch
That’s the right order to start with.
Although some say that The Flood is skippable if you just play CE.
dusty siren
But the book gives a little more lore about Keyes
feral perch
Yes. I think it’s worth at least one read.
Even if Dietz’ MC is uncharacteristically vocal.
stoic hamlet
MC is terrible in the flood but everything else is great
vivid dust
I don't remember much about Flood MC
outside of a joke to Echo 419 at the beginning of 343GS and him emptying a whole mag on Spark at the beginning of The Library
stoic hamlet
His comments to Mobuto are particularly OOC.
vivid dust
what were they?
humble yacht
"out of character" based on what characterization?
because if you base that on his characterization in the OG trilogy, then that characterization was purposefully blank because of bungie's philosophy on inserting the player into the character
which means any deviation from how you feel Chief should be based on the games is only out of character for you, not for the Chief
stoic hamlet
Out of character based on how Nylund had written him previously
Oh, I actually can’t say the quote because the server won’t allow cursing, lol
He said, in reference to Mobuto:
“I didn’t know you sarge, but you must have been one tough son of a _______”
Which is very much not how John speaks in any other media
Written, visual, audio or otherwise
fair hazel
He didn’t write the flood...
feral perch
William C. Dietz wrote the Flood. iirc, he was former military.
Which is likely why Chief has the kind of characterization he does.
humble yacht
oh that makes more sense
stoic hamlet
It’s kind of why I wish other authors wouldn’t write other established characters, because often they change the character’s personality or characterization.
Traviss comes to mind.
Even Denning has done this.
Forbeck as well
humble yacht
yeah but for long standing series, and for characters who authors don't own, that's kind of an unrealistic expectation
Chief wasn't Nylund's character, Nylund was contracted and given characters to work with
stoic hamlet
Oh I understand that.
Doesn’t make it any less annoying.
humble yacht
Would be better for people closest to the creator of the character to review any work by contractors and render an opinion on the portrayal
but even then, when a character is owned by a company and not a person, that's hard to do
as the character can outlive the original creator
stoic hamlet
Yeah
humble yacht
imagine if Batman died with Bob Kane
feral perch
Batman has the luxury of multiple reboots/alternate universes
humble yacht
point is, current batman is other authors' imagining of the character. and we got some really good stuff out of that
feral perch
True.
last anchor
Deizt was former military, yes, and he basically took Bungies suggestion of Chief being a "space marine" to literally have him be a Marine.
This is awkward with Chief, yes, but every other character (who are all actually Marines) that he writes are absolutely spot-on.
Albiet its weird to hear "semper fi" used by a soldier in the 26th century but again, thats probably him writing himself.
All the rest, McKay and Silva and the minor ones, its all solid.
last anchor
Mostly because its canonically in between two books written by Nylund and Chief's personality stays the same throughout both.
He even stays solid during the one scene he's in Ghosts of Onyx
stoic hamlet
Yep
versed helm
Is SPI used outside the Spartan-III's
versed helm
apparently they use it for special operations
last anchor
Veta Lopis wears a suit in Retribution
stoic hamlet
Here’s a question for you all, do you prefer S-III’s to be smol/regular sized and have them grow into the heights of the II’s, or do you prefer them being 6’0”+ right out of the gate?
last anchor
Smol. Though I Think them being taller than most humans after augmentation is still canon.
stoic hamlet
I suppose taller for their ages, yeah, but it might depend on the individual
IIRC they still look like regular kids
Just more athletic/muscular
versed helm
Dietz was a corpsman, if I'm not mistaken.
Just for total clearness. That is functionally a Marine, but y'know.
stoic hamlet
I’m surprised we haven’t seen a corpsman POV until Benti, in the Mona Lisa
versed helm
Benti was a badass.
fleet wraith
Greenside Corpsmen are NOT functionally Marines for one specific reason: They can get away without shaving their moostache
last anchor
All of the Mona Lisa crew was badass
remote spruce
*Flood bait
stable schooner
I mean didn’t one guy escape in a panic
versed helm
A very justifiable panic.
McCraw had acquitted himself well throughout the story and frankly the situation he was faced with was one where there were no right answers.
strong sage
Wait seriously odst use SPI , but isnt that dangerous for non augmented personnals?
unique rune
SPI is safe for unaugmented individuals.
It's not quite as reactive as MJOLNIR is.
Nor is it as powerful.
stoic hamlet
A Spartan is still going to be able to get the most out of it however.
But yeah a regular person can wear it no problem
strong sage
Woah thats new to me , but the SPI is more durable than the standard odst bdu yes?
versed helm
ONI field agents use SPI
last anchor
Its tougher than most UNSC battle-gear, yes, second only to MJLONIR
Not as much as ODST gear I dont think
strong sage
Its about time odst gets new gear and more durable bdus
gleaming granite
I wonder, were 343 happy with halo 5s campaign
carmine sleet
They know of the opinions of the fans and are using what they have learnt from that to help with creating Infinite's campaign
gleaming granite
Yeah but were they happy with the campaign in general
Like not the fans opinions on halo 5 what were 343's
vivid dust
I highly doubt this is what they wanted to end up with
I mean, this is probably true with every game to a degree, but probably even more in this case
gleaming granite
i thought so
vivid dust
Keep in mind I have nothing to back this up lol, it's just my thoughts
gleaming granite
thats why i said i thought so
versed helm
SPI is pretty cheap, and it's why they used it instead of hooking everyone with MJOLNIR
stoic hamlet
Cost as much as a destroyer
Though MJOLNIR’s protectiveness and cost isn’t because of the armour, but the undersuit and internal computer/neural interface.
SPI’s armour is arguably more advanced due to the photo-reactive panels, and the two suits actual armoured plates provide the same amount of protectiveness.
humble yacht
because mjolnir is better
MJOLNIR was specifically designed for use with Spartans to make them the ultimate warriors
SPI was a cost-effective lesser version
stoic hamlet
SPI’s only redeeming factor is its stealth which is IIRC still unparalleled by MJOLNIR, in every other scenario MJOLNIR is better.
sharp pilot
There is a massive gap between SPI and Mjolnir.
Mjolnir turns a spartan into a stealth jet on legs
stoic hamlet
It may make them fast, aye, but SPI is still vastly superior at actual stealth. We’ve seen before all one has to do to spot MJOLNIR is use infrared or thermal.
SPI is nigh undetectable, you need to see it with the naked eye pretty much.
But thats all it has going for it over MJOLNIR
stoic hamlet
Yes, but you still need to see SPI first to know it’s there to use said Plasma or flashbangs.
humble yacht
Flashbang has an AoE so you wouldn’t need to see SPI first
As long as SPI was in that area of effect and not behind cover, it would be revealed
stoic hamlet
Yeah, but no one would throw a flashbang out of nowhere. You need to first know there’s a Spartan wearing SPI, know where they are, and then converge on their position or otherwise line up a killshot, but SPI visors polarize so the flash and bang wouldn’t effect the Spartans themselves, and their insane reaction times make hitting them incredibly difficult.
Obviously it’s not as armoured as MJOLNIR, but a Spartan would be moving like everyone else is moving in slow mo while they’re moving at regular speeds.
Basically (and shameless plug because I recently remember the game existed) it’d be like fighting the Replica in F.E.A.R tactics wise, with the Spartans able to move as fast as the Replica Assassin’s, and have the bullet-time of the Pointman.
Except you wouldn’t be able to fight them as effectively as the Replica because they’d have their tactics, but not their callouts or noises, they’d be silent because they’re speaking on TEAMCOM or with hand signals, so you’re fighting an enemy that can:
Move faster and react faster than you
Isn’t effected by the flashbangs you need to use to see them, and their armour is only visible for a few seconds before it resets
Are nearly silent
Operate as a team, always
Are also stronger than you.
The only examples I can think of where Spartans (in general) have died is either in ambush, out in the open, or via explosives.
.....man, that’d be a great horror sequence
versed helm
An SPI-armoured S-III might well try to bait you out by getting you to waste flashbangs too.
That'd be a spicy meme.
stoic hamlet
sees you reaching for a Flashbang
“Do it, I dare you.”
I could see one intentionally let themselves be revealed allowing the other members of their team a chance to close in.
Space themselves so only one gets hit by the flash, then the other 2/3/4 (depending on Company) can rush in.
versed helm
you'd be able to tell the difference
stoic hamlet
The suits worn at the end of the war were basically true invisibility. Like, you could still see them, but you really needed to concentrate, and it looks more like a trick of the light than anything else. IIRC
versed helm
exceptions being outliers in normal marine's height
stoic hamlet
And yeah, you’d know
versed helm
Kat was over 7ft
stoic hamlet
In armour she was 6’9
Most are around 6 feet, I think, out of armour. And SPI doesn’t greatly increase height.
versed helm
mjolnir only increases by about 2-3 inches depending on model
stoic hamlet
Isn’t it an increase of like 4 inches?
stoic hamlet
I think unless specified it’s always in armour
A lot of heights wouldn’t make sense otherwise
When they were adults yeah
When they were younger most were under 6 feet
IIRC most still are just at 6ft
versed helm
it's the same really.
stoic hamlet
With outliers
versed helm
just depends on specific genetics
stoic hamlet
Mhm
Like Lucy is still 5’5” I think, even at nearly 30 years old
There’s a lot more outliers
versed helm
Lucy's the shortest spartan indeed
stoic hamlet
She’s the shortest we know of
versed helm
but she was classified as "only slightly caller than Veta Lopis"
stoic hamlet
But IIRC not the shortest
versed helm
never given an actual height
stoic hamlet
And yes, they would. @versed helm
Easily
Mhm
Orion’s aren’t that augmented though
They’re like peak human
While III’s are superhuman
It’s not about badassery
versed helm
Johnson didn't really do anything crazy on account of exhibiting astounding levels of physical aptitude.
Johnson's just a dang fine marine
In fact, I'd say virtually everything Johnson did was a factor of psychological fortitude.
stoic hamlet
You could be the most badass person around, but if you literally can’t react fast enough to see or fight your opponent effectively there’s nothing you can do.
We don’t know
We know the least about Orion out of all classes
IIRC we know of only Johnson was one, Forge’s dad, and it’s theorized maybe the Marines in the opening of Contact Harvest.
But there were obviously more than that
versed helm
And the Marines in the opening of Contact Harvest, by-the-by, didn't exactly exhibit any superhuman qualities.
stoic hamlet
Neither does Johnson really
versed helm
In fact, they're all stated to be breathing heavily after exertion at one point.
stoic hamlet
At any point in the book
versed helm
Well it's known to have produced effective soldiers.
Just not cost-efficiently.
And also half the soldiers it produced suffered psychological issues.
stoic hamlet
IIRC it was flawed in several ways.
Incredibly costly
Innie sympathizers among the ranks.
Psych issues.
The II’s used kids, so indoctrinated, had better augs, and didn’t have any really noteworthy psychological issues.
The III’s a step up from the II’s, were primarily made to fight aliens, and no one really cared if the kids were craving to commit war crimes, they’d be fighting aliens mostly, and aliens aren’t people 🙂
III’s were also child soldiers, often sent into combat younger than the II’s.
Child soldier druggies, the best kind of druggie.
And the final batch of them are the “Literally too angry to die!” Company.
Basically looks, AFAIK
But nothing really else
stoic hamlet
I’ve accepted unique armour. IMO Halo’s problem now is that Spartans now have gaudy colours on their armour.
Fireteam Majestic is I think the best looking team out of H4/5 because they’re all the same colour and this visually consistent. Blue Team should have been the same green as John. It would have been a great connection for visual styles. Keep Osiris multicoloured to show their ad-hoc nature.
fair hazel
I serously don't see spartans having their own armours and colours as a problem at alllllllll
fleet wraith
The only 3's that were druggies were the Gammas
versed helm
it's hybrid with Forerunner tech
fleet wraith
Alpha and Beta had no need for drugs to maintain stability
See I thought you guys' meant druggie as in having a dependence on drugs, which the Alphas and Betas did not have.
not by how they were augmented
nah my b
Honestly Gamma's smoother dependence isn't that big of a deal either as long as they have the subdermal implant that Ash, Mark, and Olivia got
Also I don't remember where I read it but IIRC the Spartan-4s need regular drug doses to maintain their augmentations
versed helm
@fair hazel The problem with the armour colours is a thematic one, particularly relating to their EU depictions.
All of the writers who I (and many others) would argue have provided us with the definitive take of Spartans depict them universally as highly efficient, in all ways. They are supremely-trained special forces to whom camouflage and concealment would mean a lot. The same should be even more true of Spartan IVs, whose time as non-augmented infantry and special forces would give them an appreciation for practicality that might surpass even SIIs.
They are absolutely not the kind of people who would ever be interested in painting their armour in gaudy heraldry if it even had the smallest chance of reducing their operational efficiency.
There are definitely those within the community who feel that the focus on Spartans canonically having outlandish armour colorations is out of touch with authentic Spartan depictions, and overall makes Halo feel less Halo (if you subscribe to the notion that media like The Fall of Reach and Silent Storm is quintessentially Halo, as I do). Notice the emphasis on canonically - whatever happens in wargames or non-canon multiplayer stuff is none of my concern.
But there is also the issue of making Spartan characters easily distinguishable for the sort of people who complain when lots of characters in games have similar appearances, so this truly is a question with no right answers.
The Covenant's gaudy armour is obviously not an issue, it should be said, because of their cultural differences as well as their broad usage of active camouflage when stealth is required. But it hasn't really been established that the UNSC's postwar usage of active camouflage would be sufficient to overcome the shortfalls of looking like a clown.
And even if the UNSC did begin to make heavy usage of active camo, we know that most experienced UNSC soldiers would follow Mendez's mantra of technology being fallible. Relying on soldier over machine wherever possible is a bit of a theme for them, so I doubt they'd expose themselves to the possibility of a critical mission failure if their camo shorted out when they could just have coloured their armour a sensible shade of olive drab, grey or whatever's appropriate for their environment.
Basically, it's just a believability thing.
Though MJOLNIR will always look best in green 🤷
Thanks for coming to my TED talk everyone.
stoic hamlet
dark green, like how chief's looked in 5
Heck, even some 40K Space Marines camouflage their armour
If the warrior priests/monks who constantly jerk themselves off about how invincible they are think camo is needed, you’d think the super soldiers trained since they were children would.
That’s what I mean
feral perch
I’d like to see Khaki Mjolnir
stoic hamlet
same tbh
Honestly if they just used more earthy tones it'd be fine. Blacks, greys, greens, tans, browns, etc.
Have the II's and III's in those kind of tones, then have the IV's with te more gaudy colours to showcase their newness, pass it off as like "with their newfound abilities and armour, many IV's have forgone their infantry roots to 'live it up' as super soldiers."
vague scroll
@stoic hamlet if we had the excuse that Halo 4 started 30 years after Halo 3, I would have confidently suggested that the stylistic and mannerism choices of the "honor-bound" Sangheili warriors may have rubbed off on SPARTAN-IV internal culture and it was a sort of sign of unity between species who had made up on their differences. Evidently, that really isn't the case. Or rather, its a lackluster explanation at this point since we're working with 5 years, not 30.
fair hazel
Green =/= concealment on every planet/scenario btw. not every battle field is like that and they might stand out in some, so yeah.
It also helps easily distinguish characters
and spartans, even IIs, have personalities
yes they do take the time to do things like paint their guns
stoic hamlet
the gun paint is definitely a newer (relative) addition.
fair hazel
stoic hamlet
also, that's not a style Nylund, or even Denning Linda or Kelly would ever choose.
vague scroll
not to discourage your point ericky, but there are more than a few lore fans that despise those colorations to a big degree
stoic hamlet
no one's saying you aren't
vague scroll
^
fair hazel
All part of the character
feral perch
The yellow really sticks out like a sore thumb on Linda’s rifle
vague scroll
its just that there are a lot that disagree with the assessment that painting guns, especially in that matter, don't make sense to the characters they represent, or, they don't follow an internal logic of being a hard-boiled military faction
it just puts others off
i know a fair few that don't enjoy those art directions
feral perch
I could see Kelly written by Nylund putting a rabbit on her shotty
But maybe that’s just me
vague scroll
but I do agree, when you're trying to distinguish your characters from an art design stand point, the choices of Halo 5 are understandable and very much practical
fair hazel
They do make sense to the characters that they represent because that's a trait of the characters.
vague scroll
it's just that from the point of view of someone looking at it with a military outlook, it brings about a lot of raised eyebrows
fair hazel
Halo's not all military stereotypes to the max
vague scroll
its not but I think people that have complained that Halo has distanced itself from its military sci fi shooter roots over the years have some merit, these are examples that they use to support their conclusion
fair hazel
SPARTAN-II’s are drilled to be clinical, efficient, and detached from the chaos of battle. Weapons are simply tools to be used and discarded as the tactical and logistical equation changes, without any sentimentality or emotion. Spartans are expected to use their extensive experience and the resources available to them through NAVSPECWARCOM to personalize their weapons only enough to maximize lethality and ergonomics, with no wasted time or materials.
At least for the first few years of the Covenant War this attitude prevailed, but it was not long before Spartans began to pay more personal attention to their wargear, making small, unapproved modifications and adding charms that reflected the idiosyncrasies of their personality and mementos dedicated to dead comrades and burning worlds. Subtle at first, these were the first signs that the horrors of the Covenant War were eroding the supposedly unbreakable indoctrination that had forged the SPARTAN-II candidates into super-soldiers who strode the battlefields of the 26th century like war-born demigods.
vague scroll
I personally think that's a bit reaching in the head canon department, its a fair explanation for why, just not one I'd back up either ¯_(ツ)_/¯
vague scroll
is it?
fair hazel
yes......
vague scroll
where'd you pull that blurb from?
vague scroll
ah, i see it
so, do you at least understand what I mean by that? that there is a small section of the Halo lore community that doesn't necessarily like that perspective? It's not that they haven't accepted they're in the wrong, or that canon disputes their points, but they just don't really enjoy the explanation or direction of it.
vague scroll
Back in Halo Fanon's Halo 3 days, it took a long time for anyone to allow things like changed visor colors, or armor color palettes that weren't brown, green, or black - then Halo Reach came around and opinions suddenly didn't matter anymore because canon dictated that its allowed.
vague scroll
I'm a site patroller for that wiki, I'm not saying you do or don't. I'm just giving a historical example.
That I can point out from experience anyway.
fair hazel
ah, the site thing
vague scroll
regulations for the wiki used to be a lot more stringent back in the pre-2011 days
versed helm
I mean, here's something that really annoys me about Nornfang.
Linda painted her magazine yellow.
Like, I know magazines aren't something you just throw away. You keep them and reload them.
But they also get bashed up and replaced fairly often.
And it's things like that which relate to this armour and weapon coloration stuff that really bug me.
You gave quite a compelling explanation with that blurb, @fair hazel, but when it's so clear that 343 is just throwing decoration on these weapons to make them visually distinct and not following any particular rhyme or reason when it comes to the decorations themselves, I can't accept your explanation.
it's all so cartoonish and the contrast with what a well-read fan's mental image of Spartans will likely be is beyond stark.
stoic hamlet
that explanation is still IMO, really dumb
usually, subtlety is better than up front in your face stuff.
versed helm
Basically, what I'm in favour of are tasteful, logical colour choices and adornments.
Not this in-your-face nonsense.
stoic hamlet
^^^
stoic hamlet
A Spartan who carries a beat up metal tin on their armour filled with the dirt of their Glassed homeworld is much more compelling than a Spartan with sky blue armour and a yellow gun.
fair hazel
that's not MY explaination
stoic hamlet
or a Spartan that gives their armour a subdued shade of blue or red or yellow, or maybe paints a decal on their armour to honour a ship they served on.
etc
there are tasteful ways of showing individuality.
versed helm
I think NOBLE team and Majestic are at the very edge of what I'd accept in an ideal world.
fair hazel
the colours are more than fine
also a bright pink armour colour might blend well in some worlds you know?
stoic hamlet
I disagree, myself.
fair hazel
it doesn't bother me one single drop.
versed helm
You've made that clear enough.
fair hazel
and I do like the shades that are used
versed helm
Though the considerate thing to do would be to be empathetic towards an area of the community who are amongst some of the franchise's most diehard fans.
As we so frequently are to others.
But since we're not gonna make any headway here, let's dive into a proper lore discussion.
How do you reckon the UNSC actually colours all their gear (regular infantry stuff included). Reckon it's related to the metamaterial coating that provides the basis for H5 weapon skins?
fair hazel
i'm hardcore. but i dont think theres a one single material that is the coating colour
it might be nanoprismatic paint though
versed helm
M6 sidearms issued to Spartan personnel have customized grips and metamaterial film coatings for improved performance in vacuum and corrosive atmospheres. The coating can be altered to "skin" the weapon with custom camouflage patterns and imagery.
From the Field Manual
rancid lily
ok
versed helm
That tells me that it might be that the coating itself responds to some stimuli and changes colour.
Rather than each colour change being a new application - as I think ericky was saying.
I googled nanoprismatic paint and didn't get anything of note.
rancid lily
entry from Noble 5's diary - I want to have an elite friend
fair hazel
no roleplay @rancid lily
it might be nanoprimsatic paint as usd on the warthogs
or something reltated
versed helm
My headcanon is that the process of changing armour colour UNSC-wide might be a matter of like, waving a wand over the armour piece in question after programming a design into the wand's mechanism
And then letting the armour sit for a bit
Something like that
And obviously you'd need to touch up the film coating after battle damage
fair hazel
nanopriosmatic paint is nanobot paint hting
to change colours
on warthog it is electronically locked to avoid misuse
i feelbad for having forgotten that small part
about coating
although i am trying to focus on gears right now
versed helm
That sounds really interesting.
Do you know where it's from?
I checked on Halopedia and couldn't find anything.
fair hazel
cortana talks about int in forza
versed helm
Shame nobody ever added that to the wiki.
fair hazel
the assault rifle has it, likely the other weapons too when issued to spartans
so it probably costs more but allwos spartans more, freedom to maintain their gear
as well as the added stresses a spartan puts its weapons in combat
subtle depot
Outside of gameplay how much punishment could the shields/physical armor of a spartan wearing gen2 take. I know gen 2 can vary so we can use recruit as a baseline
fair hazel
very so much?
it can take some plasma fire
at least a beam rifle shot
or was it two i frogot
lots of assalt rifle bullets, lots of unsc bullets
rancid lily
omegalul a lot
versed helm
Energy shields are, generally speaking, strong enough as they're needed to be for the plot. At the time Chief used them first in TFoR, they were able to sustain significant punishment from heavy-calibre autocannons.
versed helm
I suspect the armour plating of MJOLNIR may be a similar grade to the titanium-ceramic armour used on UNSC tanks, given the prodigious weight of GEN 1 MJOLNIR.
versed helm
Which would make them functionally impervious to typical-calibre small arms and very resilient to plasma.
The Field Manual says of GEN 2 MJOLNIR armour plating describes them as "Inert, but highly resilient plates of metal-matrix composite and Titanium-A".
Apparently they provide "substantial" protection against kinetic and plasma damage but (obviously) erode under fire.
Interesting side-note, they're very expensive to manufacture primarily because they incorporate energy shield "waveguides", which shape the shield around the user. So that's cool.
On the other hand, the Field Manual doesn't indicate that the techsuit includes any kind of armouring at all.
But the old (and much reviled) Encyclopedia indicates that the outer layer of the techsuit of Chief's model of GEN 1 Mark VI is at the very least made of a titanium-based nanocomposite material that is seen as vital to the wearer's survivability, serving a clear function as secondary armour.
That's probably the best general overview I can give, @subtle depot
subtle depot
Alright thanks. It’s kind of a shame it’s not covered in further detail in lore/standardized to be the same throughout books. Another thing that bugs me is I can’t find a canonical explanation for how revive in halo 5 works
fair hazel
undersuit is titanium nanocbomposite
versed helm
there’s also the gel layer, they say helped john in halo 3 absorb most the impact of the fall
strong sage
Now that you guys mention about the colouring thingy, can odst as well like custom pain their armor colours as the case like mickey, dutch, and romeo
stable schooner
Those weren’t custom paints but colors assigned to their Roles.
versed helm
probably a polycount thing
In the books energy shields are always described as adhering to the user's body shape.
When they are discussed in detail.
Maybe the energy shield flaring effect wasn't intended to be congruous with the shape of the shield itself?
More just general distortion as a result of the shield's presence.
last anchor
I always remember it being near-body but that might just be me
versed helm
It was
strong sage
How would a longsword fare against a gdi kodiak? Or a frigate is much better matchup
last anchor
Longswords the size of a 747 and carries enough ordinance to flatten a country.
My money's on the Longsword.
A Frigate would just be oblitorative.