either in truth or as a lie to make Forerunners feel guilty
#lore-and-universe
humble yacht
warm ridge
in my opinion it's more towards 1.
versed helm
In fact, given what has transpired since the Precursors were beaten - primarily, the immense length of time - I would say that the Precursors probably were all killed or no longer have any interest in our galaxy at all.
warm ridge
The Precursors definitely could've responded, but they wanted to see how far the Forerunners would actually go.
eventually, the Precursors did respond, as the Flood.
versed helm
A likely scenario is that Precursors who were scattered about the galaxy returned, only to be killed by the Forerunners.
humble yacht
to me it's just not very interesting to have a species that can literally sit back and watch things unfold without anyone else being able to touch them
and then they also can choose if/when to interact with no legitimate consequence to themselves
versed helm
And it would kinda take the wind out of the Flood's sails.
"We're going to avenge the precursors!"
"Nvm we're cool they're good"
warm ridge
@versed helm again..Precursors have been to multiple galaxies. Any Precursor who was responsible for the Milky Way galaxy were killed by the Forerunners, suspended animation, or became dust. Other Precursors in other Galaxies simply sat back and watched the events unfold.
humble yacht
it would take the wind out of Halo's sails in general for me
versed helm
I'm not denying that Precursors have been to other galaxies, but you're inferring a lot when you say the Precursors in other galaxies just sat back or were even in other Galaxies at that point in time.
warm ridge
I think what the both of you aren't really realizing is that you can't really kill a Precursor at all. You can kill the organic form yes, but it can come back just as easy.
versed helm
Or had the capacity to return or observe.
Or, y'know, how Precursors functioned at all since all we know is in quite vague terms.
humble yacht
see, I think you (Person) are assuming that they can't be killed
versed helm
I just think you're inferring too much.
warm ridge
I'm stating they exist in a form beyond the Forerunners reach, or really anyone capable of reaching it until more time is invested into Neural physics.
humble yacht
You'd think that the Forerunners, when deciding to go up against their practically omnipotent creators, would have designed something that could actually hurt them before making that decision
warm ridge
They simply used what weapons they had at the time. Remember, the Forerunners still had no idea what the Rings would've even done to any Precursor creation, if anything at all.
versed helm
Person, it is also worth noting that your approach contradicts the impression held by the Primordial itself, who may be considered something of an authority on the Precursors.
I'm not saying you're entirely wrong but I do feel that you're speaking with too much certainty.
humble yacht
reminds me of this one guy on Waypoint
though person isn't as bad
credit where credit due
gloomy condor
The rings were created after the precursor-Forerunner war right?
warm ridge
The Primordial was just another Precursor who was part of the Milky Way galaxy and the seeding of life there. When he was trapped in the Time chamber, and once his organic body finally died, his entire conscious just suddenly appears in the Flood.
what dude on Waypoint?
gilded mason
The rings were created after the precursor-Forerunner war right?
Yes. They were made as a last resort to stop the Flood.
gloomy condor
ok thanks
warm ridge
because as I already stated, the Flood was revenge against the Forerunners primarily.
versed helm
I've heard it theorized that the principles of the rings may have been used against the Precursors in the first place, since they seem to be anathema to all they make.
humble yacht
so then why not separate after revenge was successful?
make another primordial form?
why remain a gravemind?
versed helm
But large-scale usage would've probably taken out all their structures the first time around so it's probably a moot theory.
warm ridge
and because as I already once again stated, secondary objectives were likely things such as testing Humanity for the mantle.
humble yacht
but at that point, the Flood wasn't necessary for the test
warm ridge
They no longer want to interfere with the current creations of the Milky Way galaxy after the Forerunner rebellion.
beyond just testing them through warfare.
humble yacht
they could have performed the same test that they put Ancient Humans through
especially if they weren't restricted to using the Flood as how they interacted with the galaxy
warm ridge
The Flood is still necessary for the test though? No need to just get rid of a biological creation that's already there, which they still control.
versed helm
And it's also worth questioning what exactly the test is meant to prove. Humanity's moral fibre? I mean, true moral soundness would involve stamping on the Mantle's principles altogether.
humble yacht
except it wasn't always in a position to actually perform the test
warm ridge
of course it's not, It doesn't need to be.
humble yacht
when the flood is contained, it can't do anything
versed helm
Our skill as warriors? Man, thanks to the Covenant the whole test has inadvertently unfolded early, so we can't even really be measured in that respect.
warm ridge
when the Flood is contained it can't do anything, but it's still alive, and can escape when given the option as seen in practically every quarantine zone we've seen so far.
humble yacht
the Flood's ability to be a legitimate test requires it first to break free, then gain enough mass to become sentient, then grow to a space-faring stage
versed helm
And allegedly the Precursors had already seen us as fit for the mantle before they were beaten by the Forerunners, so why do another test?
I think the only ones fixating on the Mantle at this point are whatever's left of the Forerunners.
warm ridge
@versed helm The Precursors will only test Humans when they're strong enough, at there best. During the Ancient Humans time, they were.
Not when they're weak from battered wars.
humble yacht
it just seems like a lot of work to use the flood specifically when if true Precursors were still around, they could will into existence any number of tests at a moment's notice
versed helm
Why are they then trying to test us in the 26th century at all, then?
We're yet to even reach the point where we could exercise the mantle.
warm ridge
have you not been paying attention to anything in this conversation? that was answered a long time ago already, and my answer isn't changing
humble yacht
looters came in after that
warm ridge
he was here during the beginning then left.
versed helm
Uh-huh.
Right.
Well, the truth is I don't much care.
The Mantle is a load of nonsense anyway, and the Flood are obviously not a test.
humble yacht
Person says that Flood is testing new humanity because we have forerunner geass in our DNA
where as Ancient humanity didn't
versed helm
They're at best a malformed attempt for the Precursors to return to life, and at worst a bioweapon.
humble yacht
so we're a "different" form of humanity
warm ridge
Forerunner geas and whatever other changes the Forerunners did to Humanity.
Remember, the Ancient Humans were actually an entirely different form of Human, they weren't "homosapiens".
warm ridge
chakas was also not an ancient human. He was one of the many different sub species of Humans the Forerunners created based off the Ancient human DNA.
go to "Early civilization and Forerunner involvement"
you can also go here to "Downfall"
peak fjord
Wasn’t chakas able to telepathically communicate with other “humans”
gilded mason
lol did your post get removed for saying the first part of that word, Looters?
versed helm
Apparently so
peak fjord
F
warm ridge
Looters having a hard time getting his post removed, I've seen like 4 of them get removed already.
versed helm
Anyway apparently we're homosapiens-sapiens these days or something.
And until then that was actually another dude.
peak fjord
Chakas was a Hamamune
versed helm
But, I will say this - when taking part in this discussion, I do have a pretty strong bias towards the focus on the story being more grounded in 26th century people floundering in the aftermath of the Forerunner's time than actually fully continuing those sweeping events.
This is because in my eyes, Halo's military sci-fi is more compelling than its ancient science-fantasy.
So I am naturally quite peeved by the idea of humanity fighting a long, hard victory against the Flood when the times comes only to have some Precursors rock up and go "ay, bois, we knew you could do it, take the Mantle".
humble yacht
me too
gilded mason
Same.
versed helm
As I am peeved by the Librarian's hand being in virtually every cookie jar that exists in the universe ever.
gilded mason
That too
humble yacht
In fact, I want humanity to say "F the Mantle"
versed helm
But it's not entirely irrationality - I do think Person is making certainties of fairly nebulous information that I feel was intended to give different impressions than what he's gleaning.
warm ridge
Well, technically current Humanity never proved themselves to up hold the mantle, so they'll have to fight a long hard battle against the Flood once again to see if they're capable at all.
humble yacht
if
versed helm
I don't care about the Mantle, and I dislike the idea that all humanity has achieved is on the back of the Forerunners
humble yacht
remember when Forerunners could have been the ancient humans?
versed helm
The UNSC is frankly the coolest, most relatable science-fiction faction I can think of and it's the heart of the setting for me
warm ridge
tbh that was an idea Bungie had during Halo 1's development but it was otherwise decided against during Halo 1's production.
humble yacht
I know but still, I loved the ambiguity
warm ridge
ah alright.
humble yacht
good times
warm ridge
@versed helm Most of Humanity's current progress such as space faring and all has actually been the result of reverse engineering Forerunner/Covenant technology. At least Humanity in 2555 and beyond.
versed helm
"Current humanity never proved themselves worthy of the Mantle" - ping off, we don't want it.
It's immoral.
The Flood virtually demonstrated why it's immoral.
Halo 3 terminals speak precisely to that effect.
humble yacht
reverse engineering other people's tech still requires humans to understand and be able to break down that tech
so it's still a legitimate achievement
warm ridge
anything before that was either little additions, like shields being reverse engineered Covenant stuff, which the Covenant also got from the Forerunners lol.
versed helm
And truth-be-told, Chief's immediate negative to reaction to Cortana's Mantle spiel in Halo 5 is one of the things that redeemed that game for me.
warm ridge
but stuff like the slip space drive, massive ships in space, etc, all done by humanity just doing a "guessing game" like we are today in the real world.
gilded mason
And truth-be-told, Chief's immediate negative to reaction to Cortana's Mantle spiel in Halo 5 is one of the things that redeemed that game for me.
Yeah, it was a nice silver lining.
humble yacht
if you gave a caveman an iphone, i doubt they'd all be suit-wearing bluetoothers in a few generations
versed helm
it would take centuries
humble yacht
more than that
versed helm
evolution is the span over millions of years
warm ridge
Chief is only negative towards Cortana's mantle spell because she's following the Forerunners interpretation of the Mantle, rather then what the Mantle actually means.
humble yacht
think about how useless a phone like that would be to someone who doesn't even get electricity
versed helm
they would probably dismiss it
warm ridge
Forerunner society in general is very backwards, it's surprising they got as far as they did at all.
humble yacht
they'd try to eat it and when they couldn't, would maybe use it as a weapon?
versed helm
iphone as a throwing weapon lol
humble yacht
subpar because it breaks after like one toss
warm ridge
they'd use the glass as a weapon rather then the phone itself tbh lmfao
versed helm
the iphone1241312 in 2558
warm ridge
they'd throw it, discover sharp pointy things, and use those as weapons.
versed helm
I mean the Precursor's idea of the Mantle seems to have been creating life
And then letting it do its thing
And then being incredibly undiplomatic and getting yourself wiped out by vengeful creations
the precursors i feel are very vague
humble yacht
the precursor's idea of the mantle was closer to that of the Cenobites from Hellraiser
"can't have pleasure without pain
so let's experience the apex of both"
warm ridge
the Precursors idea of the Mantle is having all life succeed, and anyone who threatens it should be thrown out.
Not exterminated, just thrown out.
whether or not they're capable of joining back is unknown so idk.
versed helm
they are basically, for an example, Odin of the Halo universe? like they have to protect, and defend
warm ridge
pretty much yeah lol. Something like that.
versed helm
its my analogy, idk how exact it is
Excerpt from Halopedia Despite its ultimate ideal to preserve all life, some Forerunners also used the Mantle as a justification for several questionable practices. Forerunner dogma posited that their evolution was more "complete" than that of other species, deriving the entitlement for their rule from this belief.[1] They considered it heretical for any other species, namely ancient humans, to claim to be true inheritors of the Mantle.[15] Because of their perceived superiority, the Forerunners sequestered themselves from other species; allegedly, this was done to protect and preserve all species, including themselves.[16] As the Forerunners viewed themselves to be above all other species, their Warrior-Servants would not hesitate to wipe out those who stood against them, believing that to defy the Forerunners was to show contempt for the Mantle itself.[17] In addition, constructs known as Guardians were used to police subject species where all-out warfare was not deemed necessary.[4]
warm ridge
btw Chimera30 on the subject of how Homosapiens aren't ancient humans (I already know I proved my point about that) but when the Didact met Chakas, even the Didact was disgusted and said he reminded him to much of the Humans who killed his children. While he was more pleased with a different type of human named Riser, who was actually a Florian rather then a Homosapien.
humble yacht
you know, I already read all that
versed helm
Were the ancient humans Tier 1?
humble yacht
you already linked those things
humble yacht
more like Tier Fun
warm ridge
both the Forerunners, and Ancient Humans were Tier 1 societies.
Precursor being Tier 0.
versed helm
It's weird, i don't think present humanity is an evolution form the ancient humans
warm ridge
Flood is anyone's guess, no idea.
humble yacht
not an evolution, but a regression
versed helm
flood is the tier level of what they consume
mossy finch
They where seeded after the halos fired
versed helm
so if they consume covenant, they are tier 2
if they consume forerunner, tier 1
im pretty sure at least
warm ridge
The Covenant in there prime time was Tier 2, and was actually decently close to even becoming Tier 1 before the Prophets ran a genocidal campaign on Humanity.
humble yacht
at the height of their power, they might have been tier 0
versed helm
Halopedia says Tier 7, but that's in it's base form
humble yacht
back when they were using star roads
versed helm
Sangheili are the highest tier out of the covenant im pretty sure
warm ridge
@versed helm The Flood actually still contains the knowledge of anyone who has ever been infected. Where the Flood stores this information is who knows, probably the Domain.
humble yacht
not sure about that
gilded mason
Sangheili are the highest tier out of the covenant im pretty sure
And San'Shyuum. But who knows what many of them are up to these days.
mossy finch
Ya but that doesn't mean they can put it to use
humble yacht
if that were the case then how could the current flood remember the Forerunner-Flood War
versed helm
Isn't the Domain destroyed?
gilded mason
Nope
warm ridge
judging from how the Gravemind in H2 knew things that would've otherwise been impossible to know, yes they do store this info somewhere. Idk of it's the Domain, but they do indeed have it.
humble yacht
it repaired itself over time
gilded mason
Turns out it got rebooted just after the Halos fired.
humble yacht
but we don't know what kind of info is still in it
no
the reboot was manually activated by isodidact and company
versed helm
If we ever do find, that would be a huge step for humanity technology wise
humble yacht
oh
warm ridge
The Domain was heavily damaged after the Halo array fired. The Forerunners who were at Installation 00 repaired it by fighting off the then rampant AI Abandon who was the "protector" of it. Likely going rampant due to the massive amount of damage done to it.
humble yacht
sounded like you suggested the firing was the cause of the reboot
gilded mason
Nope-o
versed helm
I heard that Spartan-IIs would be like a class 2 forerunner or something like that
gilded mason
I think you're mixing up lines, Olive
humble yacht
yeah i think you're thinking back to that Combat Skin classification
warm ridge
I don't think any of the information stored in the Domain actually got erased and probably does exist in another dimension, but in order to access this information you need the Precursor device to function.
versed helm
Yes Chimera
humble yacht
and how 343 GS suggested at least a class 12 combat skin
Well the domain decides what information to keep and how to represent it
warm ridge
support of this theory is how the Gravemind remembered all the events of the Forerunner-Flood war. None of the info was erased at all, but the access point was heavily damaged entirely until the Forerunners who traveled there managed to manually activate the "self repair" option.
humble yacht
so, stands to reason that it could have let go of everything
also we don't know when the Domain was repaired to a point where access was once again possible and how that relates to when the gravemind at Installation 05 was formed
if the Gravemind popped into existence before the Domain had reached a sufficient level of repair, it would suggest the Flood not requiring the Domain in any capacity
mossy finch
The flood remember everything using somekind of nural link it's a science that the precursors used but I can't remember the name of it.
warm ridge
I stated the Gravemind was able to remember things he couldn't have known at all. We don't know if the Flood can access the Domain, but it's highly likely possible. Nothing about it's creation or how it formed.
We do know how the Gravemind did form on Installation 05, it was through a Flood break out in one of the Quarantine zones on the ring itself due to neglect from the rings Monitor.
humble yacht
given that the Domain was made by Precursors, it stands to reason that wherever they kept their "intangible" aspects was not a part of the Domain
otherwise, Precursors wouldn't have been able to go through their numerous lives without the Domain having existed first
versed helm
excerpt form Halopedia the Bornstellar Makes Eternal Lasting, formerly the IsoDidact, viewed a recording from the Librarian relaying the Gravemind's message. He shared the recording with Chant-to-Green and both realized the consequences of the loss of the Domain. Understanding what that the Domain needed to be somehow repaired, Bornstellar, Chant, and a group of other Forerunners journeyed to Maethrillian to accomplish this. Along the way some of the group encountered Abaddon, now active within the Capital and intent on judging the Forerunners for their crimes.
mossy finch
Neural physics. Is how all grave minds remember everything every other gravemind has known.
warm ridge
tbh it's stated that knowledge on how to create a Gravemind, and how to form the Flood is all stored in the Flood cells. They don't need the Domain or any sort of information in order to form infection forms at all.
They only need tactical knowledge and how to handle situations appropriately. It would not surprise me if the Flood eventually learned how to counter the Sentinels attacks the best they could until the Domain was repaired to a certain point and reached there area of existence.
@versed helm They received the transmission remotely I'm pretty sure, not through Domain access I don't think.
versed helm
I thought all the Neural physics structures were destroyed
warm ridge
after the Halo rings firing, most Neural physics structures were destroyed or heavily damaged if judging from how the Domain managed to survive.
the Domain access point that brings it into the Halo universe is a neural physics structure.
versed helm
Well, i believe the forerunner destroyed them because the flood learned how to use them
humble yacht
they destroyed them at the same moment they destroyed the flood
it was a byproduct of the Halo effect
versed helm
"destroyed the flood"
humble yacht
you know what I mean
versed helm
lol
warm ridge
actually the Forerunners didn't want to destroy any Precursor artifacts at all. They only learned that it'd destroy Precursor artifacts through testing with the Halo rings. They had no idea it'd also damage or have the chance to destroy the Domain until the Gravemind warned the Librarian, which then sent a direct transmission to the Iso-Didact about it. Which he ignored btw.
humble yacht
i'm sure they were glad when the star roads got nuked
considering how the Flood was using them against the Forerunners
humble yacht
among other things
warm ridge
after the Halo rings firing, most if not all Star roads got destroyed or may even be in a heavily damaged state as well.
humble yacht
The star roads could also tear through planets and structures like tissue
warm ridge
It wasn't really stopping the Forerunners from using slip space, the Flood was just capable of changing how Slipspace worked. Let's say your heading off into one direction using slipspace, instead the Flood could forcefully change your destination to where the Flood were, trapping you and killing you.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was ways around it, but I highly doubt any Forerunner ever discovered how, and if they did it was to late.
versed helm
AI was probably trying to figure out how
humble yacht
we all know how that turned out
warm ridge
Most Forerunner AI's were part of the Flood at that point.
gilded mason
Nope.
warm ridge
not that we know of, no.
Wanna know what I'm most curious about?
how many Forerunner AI's joined with cortana
humble yacht
OB wasn't as... philosophical as MB
humble yacht
OB would likely hear the logic plague argument and be like "I don't care"
warm ridge
and that was it, that was OB's only goal.
after his goal was finished and done, he imprisoned MB and we don't know what happened to him after that.
humble yacht
OB be on MB like Android 16 on Goku
warm ridge
nope. Never has.
warm ridge
Cortana encountered splintered fragments of MB in H2 from the Keyship yes.
but beyond that no.
humble yacht
MB might have given Cortana some trouble on HC when she was trying to halt the departure of the Keyship
versed helm
That's what i was thinking of
Didn't the covenant know about the flood before humanity
gilded mason
Yes.
warm ridge
Cortana was actually trying to converse and talk to this MB fragment on the Keyship funny enough, but it ignored her demands and explanation, just continued to fight with her
Covenant long knew about the Flood way before Humanity even knew what it was.
versed helm
Are there any San'Shyuum we know about in lore to still be alive
humble yacht
Subject Denver
gilded mason
Yes
warm ridge
In HW1 they're even talking about the potential of releasing the "Infection", stating as if they've encountered it tons of times before on various different Forerunner installations.
versed helm
surprised Covenant didn't just glass the universe since it's their solution to everything
gilded mason
And my boy Zo Resken
humble yacht
that would take too long
versed helm
Twas a joke
warm ridge
The Covenant didn't glass everything, it was rare for the Covenant to glass entire planets.
gloomy condor
Wasnt like every human colony glassed, or are we talking before HC war
warm ridge
They didn't even glass the entirity of Reach. They were going to because they thought it was the Human home world, but stopped after Forerunner artifacts were found.
gloomy condor
oh yeah Im even reading first strike and i forgot
warm ridge
Most of Reach was glassed though irc, you can even see it on one of H3's MP maps.
versed helm
Reach was one of the most important planets they needed to invade
gloomy condor
Yeah and they could have just avoided the orbital defenses
warm ridge
No..?
versed helm
Only reason we won is because of the spartans
warm ridge
no to @gloomy condor
humble yacht
we didn't win on reach though
stable schooner
You mean the Elites Olive
humble yacht
we lost
versed helm
and they destroyed most the ODPs iirc
warm ridge
The Covenant couldn't ignore any of the orbital defenses.
in fact they destroyed them one by one.
gloomy condor
Sorry bypassed
versed helm
No, i mean the Spartans
gilded mason
Only reason we won is because of the spartans
Won what?
versed helm
Human-Covenant war
warm ridge
Not even by pass, they snuck in with small scale fleets before arriving with the much bigger fleet. @gloomy condor
they were figuring out what the best point of attack should be.
versed helm
I'd say if anyone didn't play the part they played we'd have lost.
We were subpar in space
warm ridge
hell even the UNSC originally thought Insurrectionist were on Reach before they figured out it was actually the Covenant.
versed helm
Arguably a disproportionate amount of credit is on Cole and Chief, of all people.
compared to covenant
gloomy condor
In first strike, cortana says that with the covenant slipspace drive they could have jumped in-atmosphere and bypassed the defenses
versed helm
we had a more superior ground force than the covenant
gilded mason
Eh.
versed helm
they destroyed the ODPs
warm ridge
@versed helm no, we didn't. We had superior tactics, but not a superior ground force
In space we had nothing but big MAC gun's lmfao
versed helm
Plasma bolts may be terrifying but a bullet's a bullet.
warm ridge
plasma can instantly kill you if shot in the head
you can survive a bullet if shot in the head, chances are low but possible.
not plasma, confirmed death the moment your hit.
versed helm
It’s so crazy the IIs weren’t even originally for the covenant
I would argue the odds of surviving a 7.62x51 round to the head are very low.
I'd argue the odds of surviving a single plasma rifle bolt to the chest are about the same.
warm ridge
@versed helm people have survived worse in real life lol
versed helm
Plasma bolts tend to be one-shot kills, but bullets are probably near-enough one-shot kills to anything without an energy shield.
warm ridge
with plasma bolts (the one the covenant used), your dead the moment it hits your head.
versed helm
UNSC had good technology to try and make plasma not as efficient
warm ridge
there's literally no surviving it beyond the metal helmet on your head.
versed helm
The big advantage Covenant troops had on the ground was the resiliency of their heavy infantry and the ease with which virtually all their weaponry was able to harm heavy armour.
Elites were extremely useful
But if a Marine manages to take out a Covenant unit's leadership with a well-placed jackhammer, then the fight's fairly even.
humble yacht
against standard infantry, yep
versed helm
Which is presumably why jackhammers seem to have been carried at the fireteam level, going off Halo Wars and CE.
And HW2.
And some other stuff.
gloomy condor
What could be considered the UNSC equivalent to elites
warm ridge
all I can say is, in terms of ground infrantry, the Covenant had better tech and superior numbers.
We had better tactics and knew the environment much, much better then they did. Better tech won't do anything if you don't know the surrounding environment that your fighting in, like large human cities and such.
versed helm
Well, that's the defensive advantage in a nutshell.
Well, Spartans and ODSTs were extremely capable
gilded mason
What could be considered the UNSC equivalent to elites
Does there need to be an equivalent?
feral perch
What’s the difference between a SPNKr and a Jackhammer?
humble yacht
What could be considered the UNSC equivalent to elites
in a 1:1 comparison? spartans
versed helm
And the UNSC don't really have an equivalent to Elites - they don't really have highly resilient shock infantry.
And a SPNKR is a jackhammer
feral perch
I would say Spartans are superior to Elites
versed helm
Like, ODSTs have heavy impact armour but they can't actually tank firepower.
And Spartans aren't regular troops, whereas Elites are.
warm ridge
Spartans are most definitely not superior to Elites. The only thing Spartans are superior to then Elites is training. Spartans are better trained, that's it.
In fact, in any sword engagement with a Spartan, Elites win hands down.
gloomy condor
I mean, like the marine is the average unsc ground troop, while the grunt is the basic Covie unit, But lead by a brute or grunt
stable schooner
No way Humanity Survives past Halo 2 without the Elites. The fleet that destroyed Truths Fleet was literally all Elites. @versed helm
feral perch
I gotta heavily disagree with you there.
versed helm
I would say that a lot of more cinematic interpretations of the lore give Spartans a fairly distinct physical advantage over Elites.
Monsters intensifies
gilded mason
pls no
versed helm
Spartans have better Technology
Silent Storm fight between Chief and Silent Blade McBoi intensifies
feral perch
Chief has beaten Elites of various ranks in hand-to-hand combat three times in the novels.
warm ridge
@versed helm Elites and Spartans are kinda similar in strength, but the strongest Elite will always be stronger then the strongest Spartan.
versed helm
Even Spartan 3s in SPI could
feral perch
He’s not the best Spartan physically, he’s supposedly average.
gloomy condor
luck is his advantage
feral perch
Excuse me, what?
stable schooner
Yeah I’d definitely put Spartans Over Elites Generally no contest
humble yacht
so who's the strongest spartan?
versed helm
unsure
Well, Chief has been reasoned into pulling off some pretty crazy feats, mathematically.
humble yacht
who's the strongest Elite?
feral perch
There’s no way the strongest Spartan is weaker than the strongest Elite.
versed helm
But that's probably not the intent.
gloomy condor
maybe ripa moramee
feral perch
I would call Jorge the strongest Spartan.
warm ridge
@feral perch what fights has Chief beaten an Elite in a hand to hand fight that didn't involve Chief wielding a knife and surprise attacking the Elite to the ground?
humble yacht
if a spartan and an elite both go to a punching machine, who has more force behind their punch?
warm ridge
last time I checked, in a fair hand to hand fight, the Elite wins.
stable schooner
That Arbiter from Halo Legends was pretty Godly
versed helm
I would say that's no longer clear, Person.
Once again, referencing Silent Storm
depends on the spartan and elite
gloomy condor
The one in first strike on the ascendant justice
versed helm
Kelly is extremely fast
John's deflection of the Scorpion missile translates into a hell of a punch.
Probably John thanks to cortana and luck
The kinetic force behind a full-on Spartan punch would be body-pulping.
humble yacht
cortana doesn't buff his strength stat
i'm talking a specific test
punch machine
not a 1-on-1 fight
versed helm
probably elite
warm ridge
@versed helm I still don't know where referencing Silent Storm is coming from.
gilded mason
Not sure I'm comfortable with luck being talked about as an actual 'ability' that John has.
feral perch
DM’d you Person
versed helm
The details are hazy but Chief overcame one of the Elite protagonists of the book in hand-to-hand towards the end.
And by details I mean names.
I'm terrible with Elite names.
gloomy condor
I mean, Will beat hunters in hand to hand combat
versed helm
It may have been a lackey, come to think of it.
jerome faces brutes ands elites on the ship
feral perch
Tel ‘Szatulai @versed helm
versed helm
Much obliged.
feral perch
It was the leader of the Bloodstars, actually
gilded mason
jerome faces brutes ands elites on the ship
Man, that was a bad cutscene.
feral perch
No lackey.
stoic hamlet
Wait wait wait did someone say an Elite v Spartan in a fair fight an Elite would win?!?!?
versed helm
😦 ostral
stoic hamlet
Wut
versed helm
It could be a bad cutscene or Spartans are now widely considered to, in MJOLNIR, be well above Elites in terms of raw physical capacity in most instances.
feral perch
He had an energy sword, and John didn’t. John still won.
versed helm
^
stoic hamlet
Even in SPI they’re stronger
versed helm
just strength @stoic hamlet
stoic hamlet
Or at least faster
gilded mason
It could be a bad cutscene or Spartans are now widely considered to, in MJOLNIR, be well above Elites in terms of raw physical capacity in most instances.
Talkin' about how it was just half-second cuts of action and black screen with disorienting direction.
stable schooner
Fal Chavamee Best Elite. Killed an Entire Covenant detachment.
feral perch
That was cinematic style, Ostral
stoic hamlet
Ghosts Of Onyx describes Beta III’s massacring Elites in close quarters with no issues.
gilded mason
Yeah, and I'm sayin' it was bad.
versed helm
But it was pretty neat seeing that Elite get seemingly punched through the air
I want some of that in the FPS games
feral perch
Fal Chavamee IS sick. Definitely a great warrior.
versed helm
it would if been an expensive cutscene ostral
stoic hamlet
IIRC Tom snapped one’s neck with no issues
feral perch
But he never fought through the Quarantine Zone, so I think Thel can still be the best Arbiter.
versed helm
we are saying vs a punching bag measuring the force, not in a hand to hand combat @stoic hamlet
gilded mason
it would if been an expensive cutscene ostral
Then have different choreography. And would it have been much more expensive than everything else that was done, otherwise?
stoic hamlet
Unless an Elite can punt a mech across a room?
versed helm
Brutes are by far
gloomy condor
brutes swole
versed helm
but it could go either way Elite vs Spartan
versed helm
IVs have way better technology
stoic hamlet
But not as strong
stable schooner
I mean getting through the Quarantine Zone is impressive but he has Spec Op Elites the whole way however getting through the Sentinel Wall single handily in closed flood infested walls is darn impressive so I’m about 50/50 @feral perch
stoic hamlet
They aren’t as strong as a II or III out of armour.
gilded mason
They are equal within armor, though
stoic hamlet
I was assuming we were speaking out of armour?
versed helm
I mean as I'm always yammerin'
stoic hamlet
Also, the mech punt
stoic hamlet
Everyone forgets the mech punt
gilded mason
I was assuming we were speaking out of armour?
Oh. I was assuming the opposite
versed helm
So it's best not to measure energy swords here
Sangheili Combat Harness' enhance the user's Strength and speed - It's not out of the ordinary to think that the higher ranked the Elite is, the further their Combat Harness amplifies their abilities.
I am still interested as to how Sangheili combat harness would do that
gilded mason
Magic.
stoic hamlet
No one else is gonna bring up TFoR Mark II punt?
versed helm
Maybe it's a more primitive form of soft exoskeleton
stoic hamlet
No one?
versed helm
I mean you did
stoic hamlet
I feel that’s really important in this
Like, I don’t think Elites have anything remotely similar to that
humble yacht
we've never had a need to follow the exploits of Elites like that
Halo has largely been a story about humans
versed helm
I think we can all agree that you don't want to be kicked by an Elite though
gloomy condor
Or a brute
versed helm
^^
gilded mason
Depends on how I'm kicked.
humble yacht
we don't really know what kind of training Elites go through or what feats of strength they accomplish
stoic hamlet
I’d rather not be kicked by anyone
versed helm
What’s the span of an Elite? 200 years?
Like you know how in Halo Reach how Elites kinda speed-saunter up to you and then EVISCERATE YOUR REALITY
stoic hamlet
Ye
versed helm
That's what I meant you don't want to happen
stable schooner
Halo 3 Elite then I will just die of laughter. Reach I’ll be splattered on the Wall.
gilded mason
lol
stoic hamlet
But when they kill you by kicking they don’t send you flying.
versed helm
But it is worth noting that they're kicking something that weighs 450 kilos and somehow caving in someone's chest through reinforced layers of titanium metamaterial
humble yacht
Was there ever a cutscene where Ripa and a Spartan fought?
versed helm
Halopedia says Samuel was one of the stronger spartans
humble yacht
like 1-on-1?
stoic hamlet
No
stable schooner
Nope
stoic hamlet
He never fought any of Red Team
humble yacht
lame
versed helm
only Forge
stoic hamlet
He fought Forge though
versed helm
Only reason Ripa lost to forge is because he underestimated him
he was toying with him
humble yacht
pride cometh before the fall
gloomy condor
And plot armor
stable schooner
Plot Armor won Forge the day
versed helm
Elites are pride and honor before anything
mossy finch
Forge would have been a great sparten
versed helm
he was too old i feel
I'd guess Ripa was, to put it in terms an ES Oblivion fan might recognize (in celebration of the Halo book of the same name), "All flash, and no fury!"
It's easy to be a tough guy when you're big
and i don’t think they picked marines to become a spartan
only ODSTS
gloomy condor
Olympia vale was a marine
mossy finch
You can get recruited as well.
versed helm
she was very good with sangheili Culture and language, so that helps
mossy finch
But I think they prefer odsts
gloomy condor
yeah
versed helm
Vale was a kung-fu lady who went to the Ark
Odsts are more experienced
In layman's terms
I don't believe she was a Marine
gloomy condor
and Lock was just an oni agent right?
versed helm
And forge wasn’t even the person who is in charge technically
gilded mason
I don't believe she was a Marine
Correct.
versed helm
Tanaka was an exceptional survivalist and UNSC Army combat engineer though
If that's what you mean
mossy finch
Ya well technically he still is an oni agent
versed helm
Why was Randall allowed to leave?
feral perch
I just wish they had hired professional martial artists to choreograph the Chief v Locke fight
humble yacht
randall wasn't allowed to leave
versed helm
Just gonna scan the universe for an element lmao
gilded mason
An element that only effects humans
versed helm
Shoot, he snuck away, correct?
humble yacht
well, not at first
he went awol for awhile, then ONI found him, then he made a deal to be left alone
versed helm
I heard also that Spartan Joseph was a spartan who tried to run away, but later commited suicide
mossy finch
"suicide"
stoic hamlet
No he actually did kill himself
He was one of the two escapees
Shot himself when he found his clone
versed helm
^
mossy finch
Right I remember that now. It took a second for me to think about what you where talking about.
humble yacht
tmw your flash clone outlives you
stable schooner
That’s just Depressing
stoic hamlet
RIP
versed helm
That was dark Chimera
Though strictly speaking Randall may have been allowed to leave. Like I believe he fell off something high during a mission and disappeared.
But presumably ONI kept tabs on him.
Was Locke surprised to find that he was a Spartan? I totally forget.
humble yacht
i think so
versed helm
IIRC don’t they try and de-augment spartans who want out or something? or am i incorrect?
feral perch
Can we agree that Daisy had a stupid death?
versed helm
Daisy's death is now retroactively terrible because of how great she is in Silent Storm
feral perch
“I was hit by Needles and now I must die”
versed helm
Kat 2.0???
feral perch
tfw Needles don’t bounce off Mjolnir in external media
versed helm
Daisy is like, consistently a high point of entertaining Spartan behaviour in Silent Storm
gilded mason
Good times
versed helm
Legends is such a clusterfrag.
stable schooner
Lol the Ralph part gets me every time
versed helm
Everything good is paralleled by something absolutely ridiculous
stable schooner
I don’t think Elites are ever shown with Shields once in Legends
feral perch
The Package is equal parts awesome and cringe
humble yacht
for me, 60% cringe
versed helm
Elites have always had shields
humble yacht
so slightly more than half
gilded mason
I don’t think Elites are ever shown with Shields once in Legends
I barely recall any visual media that portrays people with shields.
humble yacht
youthful Catherine was the most cringe part for me
stable schooner
Not what I’m saying Olive
versed helm
So sick of looking at still frames of people breathing and going "eh" with dramatic music going on
Aren’t Red Team canonically like 19 by HW2?
Origins is great though
humble yacht
I'm like, did she just get her bachelors?
feral perch
It sucks when Solomon dies because black guys are expendable lol. I know that’s not exactly the reason but still. It’s stupid.
versed helm
what stonewall?
versed helm
Well that's Japanese media for you
stable schooner
Facts dead^
humble yacht
probably because that context doesn't exist to them
to them, it's not a black man dying, it's just a man dying
versed helm
Aren’t Red Team canonically like 19 by HW2?
stoic hamlet
Red Team re biologically 19 by HW2
......wow.....
Some of the Gammas are older than them.
Wtf
humble yacht
thank you cryosleep
feral perch
I just wish no Spartans died in as stupid a way as that.
I hated Joshua’s death for the same reason.
warm ridge
@versed helm No one really knows the life span of Elites, but Thel was considered young despite being about 60-70 years old I think
humble yacht
_>
stable schooner
I wonder if Tartarus had the same setup, my poor Brute you are still missed
feral perch
I’d really like a spin-off game following lesser known Spartans like Li, Anton, Joshua, Cal, etc..
versed helm
I want one with Jai
stoic hamlet
I mean they’re all Strong Sangheili Women who don’t need no manz, but you know, still a concubine
I want books on other Spartans
versed helm
So, Do sangheili lay eggs? if so i want an omlete
stoic hamlet
Oblivion should have been about one of the other teams
gilded mason
Do sangheili lay eggs?
Yes.
stoic hamlet
Ye
feral perch
pretty sure that’s not how Sangheili society operates but sure
stoic hamlet
They lay eggs
Oh it’s not
I’m just joking around
But he does have multiple wives I think
versed helm
I want a sangehili omelet
gilded mason
But he does have multiple wives I think
Yeah.
stoic hamlet
And Swordsmen can mate with whoever they want, I believe.
lucky
feral perch
Wow.
I liked the comment in LoO from Jul’s older son about the Headmistress, how she was a city girl basically.
Gave a fun insight into Sangheili culture
warm ridge
I think it's standard Sangheili society to have multiple wipes.
@stoic hamlet as long as the female Sangheili is willing, yes.
stable schooner
I was gonna make a play of words of Vales Women in his Ranks line but with men, but nah.
feral perch
Buck doesn’t
versed helm
Buck is buck
feral perch
Heh.
stoic hamlet
That’s not standard among all Spartans, even II’s and III’s. It was a side effect IIRC
(One that doesn’t make sense for the III’s I might add, but meh)
gilded mason
Yeah
warm ridge
@versed helm None of the Spartan IV's have depleted "mating" drives from what we know.
Spartan III's, and II's did though and intentionally done.
stoic hamlet
It wasn’t intentional
warm ridge
It actually was.
feral perch
Where is it stated to be intentional?
versed helm
It was a side effect
i mean, it helps when you wanna make killing machines only though
versed helm
spartan 3s didn’t live long enough 🤭
stoic hamlet
In Fractures Olivia wonders if her lack of drive is why she didn’t notice the guy who drugged her.
Bruh
This channel deletes the most simple things
gilded mason
That's really one of the words that can't be used? Huh.
versed helm
it’s not the channel, the server
humble yacht
there's very few situations where it's a topic that can be legitimately discussed
stoic hamlet
Starts with a s, ends with EXhibition @versed helm
humble yacht
😐
versed helm
Aaaaanyways, how about that Mendicant Bias
humble yacht
not an admin
versed helm
Mod*
humble yacht
also, if i'm dead, then you're dead too
stoic hamlet
The passage was:
“Like most Spartan II’s and III’s, Olivia lacked a —- drive, apparently that included a creep detector, to.”
Which seems to be pretty clear evidence that the III’s also don’t have one. Though it could be that Olivia is a rarity and just doesn’t know. Poor dear.
stable schooner
He got murdered by a Stealth Elite. Him dying to the Ark was UNSC propaganda lol
versed helm
who got murdered?
warm ridge
yea 3's never had suppressed mating drives @stoic hamlet
stoic hamlet
Fractures says they did, unfortunately
warm ridge
only 2% of all Spartan II's apparently had suppressed mating drives though.
stoic hamlet
I think it’s dumb and a mistake
warm ridge
possibly a different drug then that wasn't a implant.
stoic hamlet
Where’d you get that number from?
versed helm
They didn’t care about side effects canadian
versed helm
Musa literally was crippled afterwards
warm ridge
in fact not all the augmentation notes are actually there, which is strange.
I thought they'd all be there
I'm looking at the book right now lol.
versed helm
they just put the main augs i think, the most important ones on the halopedia page
warm ridge
because I was pretty sure the suppressed mating drives were intentional, not a side effect
stoic hamlet
The III’s however didn’t have the same thyroid implant as the II’s, which is what caused that side effect.
warm ridge
need to read through this part again to confirm though
versed helm
They used the cheapest, but best Alts to the IIs augmentations
warm ridge
Remember, the III's switched to a more drug based role rather then surgical enhancements.
stoic hamlet
They only used drugs
stoic hamlet
It could just be that Olivia is an outlier but doesn’t realize.
versed helm
Even the S-IIs was drugs mostly yea?
stoic hamlet
They had both drugs and genuine surgery
humble yacht
S-IIIs got some surgery done
warm ridge
S-II's were more surgical, less drugs.
S-III's were more drug based, less surgical.
deft sentinel
What are you guys talking about?
humble yacht
that was a drug for the 3s
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure it was mostly chemical
gilded mason
What are you guys talking about?
Spartan augmentations.
stoic hamlet
Like all of it
warm ridge
S-IV's are the only Spartans that are drugs exclusively.
deft sentinel
Oh okay
stoic hamlet
The III’s had only chemical enhancements.
gilded mason
S-IV's are the only Spartans that are drugs exclusively.
What?
warm ridge
I believe there are some special cases though with S-IV's also being surgical.
but rare cases.
versed helm
It’s a good topic for lore @deft sentinel you should look into it, super amusing
humble yacht
Halopedia says Ghosts of Onyx page 99 says that IIIs get some surgery too
gilded mason
S4s had surgery as well I'm fairly sure
humble yacht
so someone get their copy of ghosts of onyx and check
versed helm
I have one, my high school has a lot of the halo books somehow
Yes, S-IIIs has surgical
warm ridge
@gilded mason S-IV's have some surgical enhancements like organ implantations/replacements but nothing extreme.
versed helm
“nothing extreme”
gilded mason
Ghosts of Onyx:
with chemical cocktails and surgically altered to give them the strength of
three normal soldiers, decrease their neural reaction time, and enhance their
durability.```When he went in to see Holly there was no surgical tools there though
Just chems being pumped into her
warm ridge
@versed helm https://www.halopedia.org/Project_ORCHID
Most of it is gene therapy and drug indused rather then surgical enhancements.
feral perch
Someone told me they replace all of their internal organs just about.
That would involve surgery.
stoic hamlet
....that’s replacing them
warm ridge
stoic hamlet
Which involves surgery
feral perch
^^^^^
warm ridge
they either modify the organs, or replace them with surgery.
again
I already said this, click the link.
surgeries like that are pretty common place though, they aren't extreme.
feral perch
So it’s not purely my chemical
gilded mason
So it's not drugs exclusively, then
stoic hamlet
You initially said they only used chems
feral perch
Someone also said that the Spartan-IIs should have this done to them to “get them up to code.” Which I personally think is a bad idea.
warm ridge
ok pay attention to what I'm saying now:
Spartan IV's have mostly drug induced, gene therapy enhancements.
Small scale surgical enhancements like modifying, or replacing certain organs isn't all that bad.
stoic hamlet
warm ridge
versed helm
Also i’m pretty sure it’s safe to say they had a very good recovery time from injuries, like they have a better healing factor than a regular person
warm ridge
that's also what I said but I looked at the Halopedia page real quick and it says otherwise, which is why I also linked it.
stoic hamlet
Most Spartans have faster healing
warm ridge
@versed helm yes, all Spartans do.
stoic hamlet
I think only the I’s don’t
versed helm
Rip the Is
obsidian thistle
Note to self, improve that page.
fair hazel
chat very active today
versed helm
The TV show will likely take place in 2549 at the earliest (due to Cortana being in the show), so could you see them possibly getting Steve to do the voice while Pablo is in the suit?
fair hazel
id hope so
humble yacht
He didn’t for the last live action representation of Chief
gilded mason
Though wasn't that one supposed to be him at 15 years old?
humble yacht
Whoever was his VA in FuD was not trying to sound like a 15 yo
Steve also didn’t voice Chief in The Package
versed helm
Maybe it was helmet speaker settings xD
humble yacht
warm ridge
"helmet speaker settings"
stoic hamlet
Kelly just has her helmet set to speak UK English
carmine sleet
That's 100% her natural voice and you know it
gilded mason
Then again, she uses only one finger against the sentinels in Ghosts on Onyx instead of more.
versed helm
Would be better to get him to do the voice in this show, as it’ll be 3 years before CE at most
humble yacht
I think we shouldn’t be assuming anything about the timing at this point
versed helm
Well, considering they confirmed Cortana IS in the show, then the show will have to be set at least in 2549
gilded mason
Unless Cortana is part of a flashback framing device.
stoic hamlet
What’s this about Kelly using one finger?
She flipped the sentinel off, that’s a pretty international gesture.
gilded mason
She made an ancient and arcane gesture at the machine with one finger.
stoic hamlet
She gave it the good ole middle finger
humble yacht
Unless Cortana is part of a flashback framing device.
Too... much... open mindedness... DX
gilded mason
Yeah, doesn't the UK and stuff use two fingers or something?
stoic hamlet
.....not to my knowledge
humble yacht
I think the ok symbol means “a hole” in the UK
gilded mason
.....not to my knowledge
Ah. I had been under the impression they don't just use the middle finger.
stoic hamlet
I’m not a Brit so I wouldn’t know
But AFAIK they don’t
IIRC she couldn’t have used more than one hand anyways, I think she was carrying a rifle on the other wasn’t she?
gilded mason
Woulda' been the same hand, just more fingers, I think.
carmine sleet
As a Brit, I can confirm that we do use that gesture
gilded mason
The middle?
carmine sleet
Aye, and two fingers as well. We use both
gilded mason
Ah. Okey-dokey.
carmine sleet
I'd go into more detail but it's late here and it's not all that important to Halo lore anyway
gilded mason
...As far as we know.
last anchor
I think it survived into the future actually
versed helm
1 thing for certain that'll make it into the future is the middle finger 😄
full forge
The Flood will return. When?
versed helm
At large, we have no idea
Though we've had some small outbreaks, most recently on the Ark in Halo Wars 2
versed helm
Halo wars 2 is the most recent game, so
obsidian thistle
*Actually the most recent was Halo: Fireteam Raven. :) Just making sure thst isnt forgotten
humble yacht
Most recent canonically is still HW2
autumn verge
Random question, but can somebody explain the September anomaly to me? I think i've wrapped my head around it, but that would mean that the chief was in 2 places at the same time.
obsidian thistle
Forerunner Crystal bends slipspace. Causes funky stuff to happen.
It is debated if it caused time travel or not. Whatever the case its an anomally regardless.
remote spruce
That old theory about the Ascendent Justice AI being a Cortana fragment
autumn verge
i haven't heard of that theory before
makes sense though since she says it looks familiar
obsidian thistle
Well that theory isnt dead. However Covies do weirdly have a history of repurposing Human AI.
So it wouldnt be out the question for it to be another AI that is similar to Cortana in design.
autumn verge
true
remote spruce
I think it was made for fun, basically the idea is it creates a paradox where Cortana figured out how to make a fragment because she herself already did and it got sent to the beginning of the book
Like the ship was a survivor from the destroyed fleet and picked up one of the many fragments
obsidian thistle
Well here is something I want you to do next time you view the CEA terminals. ;) A fun thing.
- Watch the first part of the first terminal when it boots up.
- Carefully and slowly watch the first part of the Truth and Reconciliation terminal with the Covie AI.
You may notice something familiar with the Boot up screens.
@remote spruce you may like what you see.
As its a curious find I made ages ago.
autumn verge
i currently have both up on a separate monitor, are you talking about the red flash that happens in both?
@obsidian thistle
oh wait, the numbers are the same
obsidian thistle
I am indeed refering about the "red" flash
obsidian thistle
The T&R terminal has the same boot up red flash as UNSC terminals. Which is clearly human despite it running on Covie Hardware.
Not even the Keyes terminal has that red flash.
So with that in mind one "could" say thats one hint of the origin of the Covie AI.
autumn verge
i don't know if it means anything either, but they both had 044657.04.21.21.34.56 during the boot up
im looking around and don't see it on the other terminal openings
obsidian thistle
Oh dont worry about that. Those are "assumed" timestamps for the terminals in CEA.
Though they are not particularly accurate at times.
autumn verge
ah ok, just thought it was odd that the covenant ai terminal had one time stamp, that then changed to the numbers above during the red flash. And it just so happens to be the same numbers from the first terminal
obsidian thistle
Well in a rw perspective the folks behind the animations probs reused stuff.
autumn verge
true lol
strong sage
Anyone remembers the mission on halo reach was it during the Viery campaign i think? That there was a pelican who dropped some troopers and i noticed that they have camp paints on their face could it be that these guys are the Unsc army special force/rangers? Or just regular troopers with camo paints
stoic hamlet
Multiple times you can find guys with camouflage paint
It’s just a random trooper variation
remote spruce
Army Rangers are canon, dunno what they're supposed to look like
But they did participate in the battles of Reach
versed helm
I mean I would imagine that, as with literally all UNSC soldiers save for a few obvious examples
UNSC Army Rangers look like soldiers with fatigues, vests, body plating, tactical helmets and whatever other specialist equipment they may need for their mission
With their colouration being camouflage in whatever pattern is appropriate or, failing that, available
stoic hamlet
I’m still annoyed we haven’t seen Army Airborne yet
versed helm
Possibly a nearby book? 👀
Speaking of UNSC troops, what’s your fav Marine armor across the games?
Mines prolly the H2A/H3 BDU
Reach all the way.
It's at its peak in the specific bit of concept art where you see several variants of UNSC soldier lined up, or in CEA where it's juxtaposed by the MA5Cs the Marines are using.
The Reach design is like the perfect compromise of grounded design and sci-fi flare. It's very faithful to virtually all the classic designs that came before it, it has the green tactical eyepiece that so many Marine styles miss out on, and it has pouches.
Behind that is probably Halo 2 Classic. Also very practical, also very distinctive.
last anchor
It has all the straps and ALL the plates and it is very good
stoic hamlet
And it’s EVA SEALED!
versed helm
Potentially
It is also possible that we're supposed to pretend they're wearing vac suits instead of fatigues xD
stoic hamlet
Aren’t their fatigues bulkier than the Army Troopers?
versed helm
I don't believe so. And they've got the same boot arrangement.
versed helm
Presumably the collars would be part of the EVA gear
But they didn't bother to give them proper vac suits
strong sage
Ah i see i seeee , coz i swear like im really curious about our army counterparts and what their special forces looks like and as well as their airborne counterparts >,<
frigid orchid
can someone explain why we are fighting the prometheans or however you spell their name
versed helm
I think we're fighting them for the oil they stock piled @frigid orchid
frigid orchid
im serious
humble yacht
The UNSC is fighting them because they are controlled by beings who seek to do humanity harm
First, the didact, and now Cortana
last anchor
They're tools. Like the Sentinels before them.
full forge
Before?
stable schooner
Man Reach Troopers And Marines Mechanically are the worst Bungie Soldiers But golly I think their the most Epic and tactical looking of all Standard UNSC Forces in the games. Reach ODSTs are a little eh for me though
carmine sleet
Honestly, I wish that some of the ODSTs had backpacks on like what we see in ODST used by Rookie
stable schooner
Same I love Rookies Backpack.
carmine sleet
Aye, it makes him a little more unique and is practical for carrying equipment like explosives and extra ammo
peak fjord
Here’s something that bothers me.
So I’m reading Halo: Fall of Reach - Invasion Issue 3, the covenant are just arriving at Reach and it’s August 30th but in Halo: Reach, Reach was being largely glassed on August 30th after a month long battle for the planet.
What’s with the inconsistent timeline of dates?
Like I look at some images and Reach is pretty perfectly fine
Aside from a blotch of purple aliens in space
full forge
Bungie happened to the timeline basically.
last anchor
Thats been an issue since Reach was released and the comics only made it worse
stoic hamlet
^^^^
full forge
I love the books though. Personally I haven't gotten into the comics, since I don't feel like I'm getting as much content for the price. And this is coming from someone who listens to the audiobooks, which cost a good 10 dollars or so more.
last anchor
Initiation and Escalation are probably the two most notable ones to read. After that, Lone Wolf.
versed helm
Collateral Damage and Tales from Slipspace are the ones I most actually enjoyed, however.
Followed closely by Rise of Atriox.
gilded mason
Last Voyage of the Infinite Succor is always fun.
versed helm
Oh wait, I forgot about the Halo Graphic Novel
That's at the top of the list
Lone Wolf was pretty cool because Linda's awesome, but the way they jammed Outpost Discovery in at the end left a terrible taste in my mouth.
gilded mason
Yeah, felt a bit heavy-handed
versed helm
I mean, surely the one group of people you don't need to advertise OD to are the people who read Halo comics
We go if we can
And now that's gonna be in there forever
In Linda's big story
Aging terribly
Imagine if there was an ad for Outpost Discovery in the plot of The Fall of Reach
I'm not even sure I like the idea of Outpost Discovery having an in-universe presence in the first place. It just feels so cynical and cheap.
last anchor
Agreed.
It almost felt like th ey were pandering to little kids for it way too hard.
At the very least if they're going to make it an in-universe thing, make it something huge and dramatic...not literally the attraction we see
Like...a mobile Museum of Humanity
But other than that yeah that list sounds good.
IMO Breaking Quarenteine is fantastic cause its written entirely in Japanese
obsidian thistle
Well thankfully I have all the easily recorded lore in a list.
And the stuff that wasnt, I need to push 343i to make public.
A list I am going to slowly add to the wiki.
last anchor
Looks like it goes right into their throat, from what the Heretic Leader has on
feral perch
and they can still make intelligible noises with it on lol
last anchor
I mean you can talk through a gas mask for the most part
meager delta
True
stable schooner
What’s up with the fact the Heretics have rebreathers but Arbiter and the Spec Ops don’t need them, to this day can’t rationalize it.
gilded mason
It's fashion, man. Sesa was ahead of his time. Which is why he had to die.
stable schooner
Covenant didn’t want to live under the oppression of the color brown
versed helm
Personally, that would be the first of two instances in the game where a detachable rebreather would likely have been used by the Arbiter and his allies
But is just a thing that was outside the scope of the game at the time to represent
stable schooner
They could have just given the Spec Ops closed Helmets like in 3 but covering Arbiters face in his debut mission I don’t think would have ever been a good idea.
warm ridge
Maybe they weren't actually needed at all and his group only had them on because the air wasn't tested to be breathable or not yet, so they kept them on anyways.
after all that entire forerunner station definitely had some form of oxygen regeneration surrounding it
versed helm
Something like that. Perhaps Sesa's group simply wore their rebreathers at all times as a precautionary measure.
But trying to adhere to what the games depict visually at all costs is a precedent I'd rather not set.
warm ridge
If the forerunner station had no sort of air circulation, the entire inside would've looked organish.
instead of clear.
so something was filtering the air.
last anchor
Probabaly the station itself
warm ridge
and yes Bungie could've easily made the air look misty/musky, they do just that on Installation 05 when you encounter the Flood lol.
To this day I still don't understand how the Arbiter isn't infected with Flood spores.
Unless he is, but the Flood infection is dormant, like the one with Johnson was.
versed helm
Which in itself probably isn't canon anymore xD
At least from Staten's point of view.
warm ridge
with the Gravemind keeping them alive as potentional spawns for the future rather then infecting them right on the spot.
What part isn't canon?
versed helm
That Johnson resisted the Flood thanks to any aspect of his physiology.
Read up on his Halopedia page.
warm ridge
Johnson never resisted the Flood, the Flood decided not to infect him/that form of infection is very slow.
versed helm
As I said, read up.
last anchor
It was him being an Orion trooper wasn’t it? Or did that get yanked too
warm ridge
I think you need to read up on it because his infection was never resisted lol.
warm ridge
The whole Boren's syndrome was a made up lie by ONI to cover there tracks of the Spartan I program.
versed helm
Nah, he was always part of Orion but Staten hated the idea that the Flood could be inconvenienced when it came to infection.
And rightly so.
last anchor
Fair. So what’s the excuse now?
versed helm
He was just a tough as nails Marine.
last anchor
He was just so good they didn’t touch him? I think Breaking Quarentine is still canon
gilded mason
So what’s the excuse now?
The Flood never got a chance to dig into him.
last anchor
Hmm. He says he got assailted in first strike though
Maybe he was just faster cause he was an Orion trooper
So he outpaced then same as Chief outrunning the ones in the Libraey
versed helm
Yeah. The implication here is that elements of First Strike are either directly non-canon or Johnson's recounting is faulty because of his humility.
last anchor
I can work with that
Breaking quarentine can fit under the lens of artistic impression (See second sunrise over new Mombasa)
A minor note in the grand scheme
versed helm
Halopedia thinks Breaking Quarantine was directly intended to serve as a contradiction of First Strike.
warm ridge
@versed helm @last anchor
" Flood DNA was present in Johnson’s blood, but it was dormant and non-infectious."
as I said
Dormant, waiting for the right time to infect.
" Halsey also confirmed that Johnson had gained some unique regenerative abilities as a side effect from the attempted assimilation back on Halo when they accidentally opened the Flood containment facility."
versed helm
Allegedly, the Boren's Syndrome had an unexpected side effect, as it made him effectively immune to infection by the Flood because the radiation scrambled his nervous system so much that Pod infectors could not force a match. This supposedly rendered the Flood unable to control him. However, the Boren's Syndrome story (referred to as the "Paris/BS Spoof"), was a hoax to cover up Johnson's involvement in the ORION Project,[25][26] and his survival from the Flood was solely due to his ability to fight off the parasite before it could infect him thanks to his augmented physique and superior skill, as opposed to an actual immunity.[27][28][note 1]
warm ridge
Read up,
warm ridge
Yes, the Boren's Syndrome was entirely made up and a complete lie.
versed helm
You are literally wrong.
last anchor
Okay, augmentations I can buy
versed helm
Like, directly at odds with the Halopedia consensus
last anchor
The flood form just couldn’t get to his nervous systems though his muscles
I’ll take that
warm ridge
Dude you aren't reading the file at all.
last anchor
And the FSC without a driving force is just dead
last anchor
Works for me
versed helm
You're just kinda, oblivious to the broader context here Person.
warm ridge
"Halsey placed the decision of which data crystal to give to ONI in the Chief's hands. If he gave them the first crystal, ONI would probably have dissected Johnson in an attempt to figure out how he resisted the Flood, killing the Sergeant. The Chief had thought at first that the first crystal held the better solution, despite it essentially being a death sentence for his friend, but later decided to save Johnson's life by crushing the first crystal. "
versed helm
So there's no real point in me bothering.
The situation is that an interview conducted with Staten
Cast literally all of that into doubt
warm ridge
I just think you're being ignorant to the fact that Johnson was indeed infected,. but the infection appeared dormant to both Halsey and Chief.
versed helm
As in
last anchor
You got a link to that interview? I’m intrigued
versed helm
It's doubtful that Halsey and Chief ever actually did any of that
Literally, it's in the Halopedia article
warm ridge
Except they did, all in Operation First Strike
versed helm
What I'm saying is that Staten's interview casts First Strike itself into doubt as a source
warm ridge
It's literally right there in the book and exactly where it comes from, why are you being ignorant to this?
versed helm
If you were to follow Staten's interpretation
As in, Staten did not like the canonical elements First Strike introduced
And disregarded them when discussing it
last anchor
It always felt kinda weird
versed helm
Johnson's supposed biological immunity to the Flood as a result of Boren's Syndrome was originally presented as factual in the novel Halo: First Strike. As stated by Joseph Staten here, Bungie disliked the notion of a Flood immunity and established the disease as being fictitious on page 122 of the Halo Graphic Novel. As stated in the introduction to Breaking Quarantine, the comic was intended to further cement Bungie's original vision for Johnson's escape from the Flood. The comic indicates that he simply fought his way out of the containment facility and did not suffer lacerations which would expose him to Flood infection in the process.
last anchor
Stuck in there to explain Johnson in 2
warm ridge
Staten is:
A. Not part of 343 (he's just part of MS studios after leaving Bungie)
B. Just because Staten did not like it, does not dismiss it as official lore.
last anchor
Lacerations..:hmmm
So does the form need to break the skin to do it’s work? Cause Chief got sliced in The Flood but he’s okay
Cortana helped yes but there should be Flood cells in him
Is that why he can hear the Gravemknd in 3?
warm ridge
So, according to 343, and even then-current Bungie at the time with the events of Operation First Strike, Johnson was infected.