During the raid on Truth and Reconciliation to save Captain Keyes, we come across multiple Marine bodies. Are they part of the strike force and they landed elsewhere/managed to get inside the ship?
#lore-and-universe
vivid dust
I mean they're obviously there for gameplay reasons, so you can reload your Sniper Rifle, but is there a lore background to them?
stable schooner
Yeah I always found it weird theirs multiple sets of dead Marines on the Truth and Reconciliation before Cortana told Foehammer to land directly on the Ship.
carmine sleet
My guess is that they made multiple attempts to free Keyes but surely that would be a waste of time since they wouldn't know the layout of the ship? And we know they couldn't be prisoners since if they were, they'd have been with the rest
Plus Chief is their most skilled soldier so it would've been better to wait for him to lead the op anyway
stable schooner
Yeah definitely the weirdest Marine body placement in the entire game. Should of just give us a Sniper Marine if ammo was an issue. Unless the Covenant took ALOT of prisoners and their was a break out.
copper wigeon
It could be that they were prisoners who managed to escape a short distance after hearing that some force had boarded
vivid dust
That wouldn't explain the bodies outside of the ship
nor why Keyes would still be prisoner
feral perch
I wouldn’t say they only convert high ranking figures into Graveminds. Every sentient being incorporated into the collective consciousness of the Flood contributes to the Gravemind.
Keyes was, however, a good source of knowledge, so putting him in a critical position for the Flood made sense.
The Flood can only directly convert organisms with a central nervous system. I suppose they incorporate the brainwaves of a given host, and that way the collective gains the knowledge and experiences of said host
stoic hamlet
They needed pilots
Keyes was (more or less) a Pilot
So they had him as part of the proto gravemind
copper wigeon
Which is why the has the proto gravemind on the bridge, huh.
stoic hamlet
Yep
copper wigeon
I was pretty sure every bit of the flood was connected to the consciousness, it just takes the various minds to make the more and more complex decisions
versed helm
Keyes was a pretty good Captain
i think his ship experience definitely ticks the pilot box
(drawing the most obvious conclusion xd)
vivid oak
@copper wigeon Captain Keyes also had advanced knowledge on the location of Earth, which he tried keeping away from the Flood, by repeatedly thinking about his UNSC rank and serial number.
So he actually did a darn good job fighting them off.
warm ridge
The cost of Mjolnir was only so expensive at the start of the war due to all the RND being put into it. It took the cost of a full UNSC starship to "make it".
To actually make the full body suit + helmet, it's honestly not that expensive at all by comparison.
By 2552-2558, RND cost went so far down that Security and custom EVA variants were also being made.
rotund lintel
Whats the deal with the weapons used by Omega Team?
abstract zealot
Well. Ones an Energy Sword, the others a Plasma Turret the last is a Rail Gun...
carmine sleet
If anything, I'd be more interested in their armour, like sure, it is Mjolnir, but it's definitely more unique compared to other suits. Shame we're not likely going to learn more about Omega Team though
last anchor
At least not in the near future
carmine sleet
I assume that with the Swords of Sanghelios and UNSC being friendly, they've learnt allot about how Covenant tech functions, including stuff like how to recharge plasma weapons
Obviously in game, we can't do that but within lore, I think it would be something they could do
And obviously, not in the middle of a firefight, that would be the worst time to try and charge a weapon
As Captain America once said "It seems to run on some form of electricity"
From Halopedia
The weapon is powered by a small battery that supplies power to the plasma generation device and magnetic field generators which generate and contain the plasma needed to form the blade
Also, I don't think Elites can keep one running indefinitely
peak fjord
Learning about the Maethrillian, jesus that thing’s just smaller than Saturn
100,000km in diameter
Big numbers
peak fjord
Take that back, Shield World 0006 is 300 times bigger than the sun
stable schooner
So are we gonna talk about how Elite Phantoms in Halo 3 can Camo at will. Where was that before and after.
versed helm
If you had to guess, would you say over or under 50% they’re at least contemplating doing another ancient era novel?
gilded mason
-84%
versed helm
My man, why do you hurt me 😰
stoic hamlet
-99%
versed helm
😰😓😭
limpid kernel
is it canon that elites have motion trackers
versed helm
We don't know what they have
But I imagine they have some of motion tracker
gilded mason
Pretty sure it was stated Elites can wear contacts with HUD elements
And we know Prelates have motion trackers, so it'd make sense that the Elite motion tracker is canon as well.
last anchor
Ye
peak fjord
Ancient era novels, where the ending was already spoiled in Halo: CE
nervous forerunner laugh
feral perch
I’d like an ancient era novella about the ancestor of Hamish Beamish.
He was a janitor aboard Forthencho’s flagship
limpid kernel
i was wondering because you can run st them full speed from behind or around s corner and they're always surprised
limpid kernel
but then again it could be for gameplay purposes
feral perch
ban incoming
gilded mason
but then again it could be for gameplay purposes
When in doubt, that's usually the answer. Sometimes.
sage marten
Yes
last anchor
Gameplays probably the most likely answer
stable schooner
I’ve seen a Knight Battlewagon ambush Spartan 4s, I think gameplay is a fair answer lol
versed helm
Something makes me doubt that Elites wear contacts.
I'd be much more prepared to accept ocular augmentation or mono-directional holographic HUDs.
gilded mason
Whatever works. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
past olive
the elites having infinite battery for energy swords might just be talking about the gameplay
usually whenever you pick up an energy sword after killing an elite it's at 100%, whereas other plasma weapons are less depending on how much they were fired by the enemies
unless it specified if it was talking about halo lore
rotund lintel
A Halo Chronicle's game where you could play as important characters in Key battles during the Human/Covenant war. I mean imagine playing as Johnson during Trebuchet, Or Fred during the generator defense on Reach, Or even playing as Kurt or Will during the Onyx Conflict. In my opinion, would be the greatest thing to exist.
Thoughts?
past olive
as I've been told before (as I had a similar idea in the form of ghosts of onyx being a game), it's probably just better to leave the books as they are and have the games be new and original stories
although if they were to make it, it probably wouldn't work too well as its own game with jumbled up events like that and it is likely too much hassle to make an entirely separate game just for that. If they were to make it, it would probably be better off as DLC content for Halo Infinite
limpid kernel
I've rarely had an elite drop a 100% sword, but i believe covenant weapons are supposed to last a long time
and them lasting a short time is just gameplay
versed helm
For some reason while playing halo 5 EVERY ELITE has a gravity hammer and/or energy sword/plasma caster once I play husky raid.
It’s freaking confusing.
But good weapons tho.
vivid dust
what do you mean?
strong sage
Now that u guys mention it , energy sword do deplete easily in game
By lower however do they last longer?
And are they like recharge able or something
carmine sleet
@versed helm There's no playable Elites in Halo 5 so you can't be facing any armed with grav hammers. Plus, no grav hammers exist in the campaign
versed helm
I’m not joking my things glitched af.
carmine sleet
That's not how glitches work
They said they were fighting Elites armed with grav hammers in Husky Raid, which is impossible in Halo 5 since there's no playable Elites
And even if you had, we wouldn't be able to talk about it here
All we know is he got off Reach, the how is unknown and covered in black ink and red tape, the why was because he was separated from the rest of Noble due to Carter ordering him to escort her to Castle Base
copper wigeon
He went with Halsey as extra muscle initially
Between Reach and First Strike he disappeared off somewhere before being recruited for the next spartan program.
Gotta hit the wiki’s real quick,
Yeah he just disappears and then comes back without explanation
Yeeaah
carmine sleet
Honestly, I wouldn't mind not finding out the details of how he got off Reach, keep it as something mysterious
rotund lintel
All we know is he took halsey to castle base
Then escaped with what was left of the outer colonies fleet
last anchor
Snuck aboard the dropship Chief used to get Blue Team off Reach and sneeki breeki'd his way through the entireny of First Strike. Ascendant Justice is a big ship, no ones going to notice one squating Spartan-III
fair hazel
Jun escaping reach is a story to be told another time... just because something isnt revealedat one time doesnt make it bad somehow
i have no idea what the guy who keeps changing his name is talking about
also no mod discussion
a number of elites seem to have the motion tracker
versed helm
That fan comic of Jun getting off the planet was really good, and the art done in that was amazing
copper wigeon
They could have hinted to more of where jun went to at least give us something
All that aside, his reappearance was interesting
hazy reef
It would be interesting to see an alternative version of First Strike where Jun was present
carmine sleet
Well, if he was there, they'd have an extra sniper with them during the op
Which would mean more targets eliminated
stable schooner
When the only thing Juns character has going for him is surviving Reach
warm ridge
@versed helm It's stated that the Energy sword has no battery, and is a infinite case use weapon. They only made it have a ammo max in H3 and on wards for balance reasons. In Halo 2, it was infinite.
humble yacht
yeah it was
yeah
no battery meter
it lasted as long as you did
or until someone threw it off the map
hence why its spawn points were popular hot zones
multiplayer
lol
missin out
warm ridge
@versed helm Not all Elites wear "contact lenses"
What they wear is a special type of lense that displays a load of information, similar to what Marines wore in Halo CE, except it's directly on there eyes. Not much lore really exist on the subject, but they do indeed show up in-game to help explain why certain Elites eyes don't have pupils what so ever.
In Halo 3 (depending on the type of Elite) they're orange and are probably even part of the armor it-self. tl;dr basically holographic hud's in miniature form. Technology the UNSC doesn't have.
example: http://prntscr.com/p1dvju
humble yacht
google glass on your cornea
warm ridge
pretty much lol
I suspect some of then are even clear and don't have any color at all that basically appear as a contact lense directly on the eye lol. Could help explain why Elites eyes in Halo 1 were black/matched the armor color lore wise.
is that from h3?
either way, we can conclude that the same visual information we get on the spartan visor is identical to the info elites get on these "contact lenses"
last anchor
Makes sense
fair hazel
There’s more to jun.. he appeared in other works you know?
stable schooner
None that make him particularly stand out as a good character. Need a good long book focusing on Noble or any members of the team pre Reach including Jun
versed helm
Would love to find out more about Thom
versed helm
He left with Halsey
fair hazel
He did not leave with Halsey
versed helm
@warm ridge The only problem with that is you're extrapolating it from one specific kind of Elite. Most Elite soldier classifications from most of the games do retain entirely uncovered eyes - wouldn't necessarily be an issue for them given Halo 5's representation of projection sights being a thing, though.
Perhaps Elites only bother with HUDs when they have some form of special equipment to utilize. Perhaps not all of them actually sport motion trackers - after all, not all UNSC soldiers have motion trackers, if The Mona Lisa is to be believed, and they're relatively sophisticated technology.
Though I do believe the basic "tracker" overlay is probably also used for representing contacts that've been pinpointed by battlenet-linked input sources and friendly IFF signals in close proximity. Seems a decent compromise between what we see in certain bits of media and certain classic sources, but I digress.
No reason why a weapon-projected overlay - or a projection from other parts of the armour - couldn't fulfil many of a HUD's functions.
fair hazel
or some sangheili harnesses and equipment do, others dont. just like the variety of covenant equipment, how some have energy daggers and others dont
versed helm
Well the rub is that you'd think HUDs are pretty standard fixtures of a fighting force, y'know?
But then again, not even 100% of UNSC troops seem to bother with 'em so you're probably right.
HUDs are just a really inconsistent part of this universe, really. Like in that H2A terminal when a UNSC soldier picks up a helmet that has no obvious visor, puts it on, and suddenly has a HUD. Or in the gameplay of Halo Wars 2 when Marines run around using the one bloody weapon you think you'd need a HUD for, an MA5, but don't have any kind of eyewear.
That's part of why I'm so insistent on holography being a part of it - preferably of the mono-directionally observable style.
But obviously, such a theory has its various "oofs". Like why the UNSC would even bother with stuff like tactical eyescreens at all - there'll always be justification for a big pair of heavy goggles, but eyescreens don't offer much protection (unless you've got two of them, I suppose) and just seem to fulfil targeting functions.
Perhaps they were only trialling HUD-projecting helmets on the tail-end of the war, and Isabel gave the SoF's Marines the hook-up.
Another "oof" - why certain projection sights are so visible if the capacity to create mono-directionally observable holographic screens exists. Maybe there's some leighway in the notion that a helmet-projected HUD is more or less stationary relative to the eye, contrasting the fact that weapons are constantly being whipped around and looked down at different angles?
warm ridge
@versed helm It's not just one elite, and the one I did screenshot is likely a more advanced version of said eye piece with more technology placed onto it.
In reality, the "contact lenses" work like contact lenses irl. They cover the eye, are clear, and probably work like a Microsoft Hololenses do, but directly on the eye instead.
I already stated this though, I guess you missed it?
In Halo CE for example, the eyes of Elites match the armor color. You're telling me we have Red eye'd elites just roaming about and so happen to be that specific Rank all the time? lol
versed helm
Well, I based my response more off the visual example you gave. Principally because the idea of some kind of tactical contact lens is incredibly impractical. And there's the well-known distinction between gameplay and lore, referring to your latter point - I mean, it's 100% plausible that elites always have an eye colour to match their gear in the same way Chief was surrounded by the same nine or ten Marines for the entirety of 2552.
warm ridge
Sangheli Ultra's in Reach, the eyes also tend to be pretty distinct to. see here: http://prntscr.com/p1ggi7
versed helm
As in, some elements are portrayed in an unrealistic way just because of the way the devs do things. It's neat when they're folded into lore, but oftentimes you gotta let 'em go. And that's pretty evidently lenses for a helmet.
I'm not 100% ruling out the idea of HUD-based contact lenses, but I do think they're not a canonical certainty and it's probably more plausible for Elites just to rely on projection stuff.
I mean, if HUD contacts were the case, you'd be switching them out on the daily because contacts get gross.
warm ridge
tbh not many people really pay attention to the different eye colors of elites, or sometimes how things even cover there eye's entirely. Not sure why though
versed helm
And if you could overcome that, they'd still be really easy to lose for valuable bits of equipment.
warm ridge
also, Elites use futuristic technology. We can't exactly just assume said contact lenses even follow the rules of contact lenses we make.
gilded mason
I also liked that ocular augment idea.
versed helm
I think that'd be a best-case scenario tbh Ostral
I mean, it'd hit both bases too. Who's to say such ocular augmentations don't impact eye colour?
Not that I'm overly concerned with trying to find a canonical basis for Elite eye colouration.
Also one final thing - the idea of an Elite trying to put in a contact lens, the mental image of it, is a little comical.
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
Not saying reality isn't often more than strange enough for stuff like that to be a thing.
Just pointing out that it'd be a real meme.
warm ridge
another thing: Each Halo game is technically a simulation of the event. You're not actually "running" through the actual events, you're running through some simulation of it based off video footage from Master Chief's helmet that runs on the UNSC Infinity according to current lore.
versed helm
That's honestly a really cool notion.
A way of cementing gameplay/canon distinction.
gilded mason
Huh, where was that said?
versed helm
I was just about to ask that.
warm ridge
you can see this from the Halo: Fireteam Raven stuff especially. You're playing as ODST's and all of a sudden you actually see Chief just jumping about, stuff that never happened in CE at all.
It also makes sense if the H2A trailer for MCC is to go off by.
versed helm
🤔
versed helm
Huh.
warm ridge
As opposed to having the users engage in direct, fully simulated combat, the TACSIM employs more abstract mechanics, producing either fully hypothetical scenarios or recreations of historical battles with users assuming the role of soldiers who participated in those engagements.
versed helm
You mean, the Spartan Assault iPad.
versed helm
No, it's your theories maybe running away with you a little 😛
warm ridge
no dude, that's literally how it works lol
versed helm
Dude, following your logic every bit of Halo media could theoretically just be some SIVs iPad game.
gilded mason
Also I'm not sure how this works with the Arbiter's story in Halo 2.
versed helm
I'm not buying into this notion.
warm ridge
versed helm
Links War Games like we don't know what it is
warm ridge
You don't if you think each Halo Campaign is a simulation of the actual event, pretty much everything everywhere implies it.
Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqD2MkOwDcU
^that's what Chief actually did, all recorded video footage during that specific moment. In the game, it's entirely "re-created"
gilded mason
Timestamp?
sharp patio
Bruh hold up
You're saying that everything in the Halo campaigns actually happened
But playing through them are just simulations?
warm ridge
@gilded mason start of the video
warm ridge
@sharp patio pretty much. Judging from both events of Halo: Fireteam Raven of Halo CE, and the H2A announcement, along with the UNSC Tactical Simulator and War games, yes.
sharp patio
I mean that would explain co-op
gilded mason
So...how does your theory square with the Arbiter?
warm ridge
who knows. ONI likely got information on the subject and attempted to recreate it.
after all, the Arbiter practically told them everything after the great schism essentially/ONI got leaks from insiders in his group.
gilded mason
This seems needlessly complicated.
sharp patio
Probably as an attempt to help Marines and other UNSC officials coexist with the new Sanghelian alliance
versed helm
Kinda undermines the intent of the games as they were released, don't you think?
gilded mason
Yeah
warm ridge
As opposed to having the users engage in direct, fully simulated combat, the TACSIM employs more abstract mechanics, producing either fully hypothetical scenarios or recreations of historical battles with users assuming the role of soldiers who participated in those engagements
versed helm
Bit of a barrier between the player and the authenticity of the events.
warm ridge
literally says it right there.
"recreations of historical battles with users assuming the role of soldiers"
versed helm
Which may or may not apply to the context of the mainline game.
versed helm
There's no dead certainty that that goes beyond the bounds of the Spartan Strike experience and other dedicated bits of TACSIM programming.
fair hazel
but in no source is campaign suppsoed to be simulation
sharp patio
Honestly that would really help explain a lot in terms of lore, easter eggs, skulls, coop
warm ridge
judging from both Halo: Fireteam Raven and the H2A video footage, it kinda is heavily implied that they all are.
versed helm
Or just gameplay =/= canon, as we've known it doesn't since like The Flood and Palace Hotel.
fair hazel
NO it doesnt
also gameplay =/= canon but doesnt mean stuff we see in gameplay doesnt have basis
that includes HUDs
warm ridge
alright so explain how we see in Halo Fireteam Raven doing all sorts of cool tricks, and such, along with vehicles which never appeared in Halo 1 at all? I mean, yeah.
sharp patio
I highly doubt that masterchief just picked up a skull and instantly losing the ability to see your HUD and weapons, that's a little- immersion breaking don't ya think?
versed helm
Because Halo CE is an older representation of the Halo universe, and gameplay sequences are not completely to be trusted.
fair hazel
additions to the lore..
versed helm
Whatever way you want to spin it, it's flexible.
warm ridge
@sharp patio It's been long said that gameplay isn't lore related what so ever. Anything that happens in gameplay is just that, not lore centered at all. Cut scenes typically are "confirmed lore" though.
It'd make sense if all the gameplay was, was just a massive simulation instead. Quite a few lore material also implies this.
stable schooner
Skulls are things you have to go out of your way to find I wouldn’t really take those into consideration
sharp patio
Right, but why in the middle of a battle would a super soldier just start crouch jumping onto light posts?
versed helm
Are you joking
gilded mason
Making all the campaigns just a simulation on the Infinity would make some issues in the long term as well.
fair hazel
why are you people even discussing those things as if it was canon? or out of no where talking about it being a simulation without proof or source
warm ridge
I literally just provided proof/sources to it wot
gilded mason
It's not exactly proof.
versed helm
You provided sources for your interpretation.
That may or may not support it.
Depending on a multitude of factors.
fair hazel
you didn't provide a proof to that claim
warm ridge
from Halo: Fireteam Raven, UNSC Tactical Simulator, and the whole War Games aspect.
UNSC tactical simulator was basically made to "recreate" historical battles for anyone to experience and train on.
versed helm
Can =/= did.
sharp patio
There is no hard proof because it's hard to tell and with no direct confirmation all we have to go on is what we're given, I look at everything as speculation at this point
versed helm
I mean, hey, they might of had a Chief on Halo tactical simulation.
But something makes me doubt that the emotionally resonant, gamified story we actually play through has much bearing on it.
warm ridge
judging from my experience in trying to explain gameplay, it's basically a simulation alone of the actual battle that happened.
versed helm
I mean, your logic reduces the universe to just people experiencing everything that happens second-hand. Like, where's the fun in that supposed to be?
fair hazel
dont try to explain it
gilded mason
Sometimes gameplay is just gameplay
versed helm
Frequently gameplay is just gameplay.
gilded mason
I mean, your logic reduces the universe to just people experiencing everything that happens second-hand. Like, where's the fun in that supposed to be?
Indeed.
warm ridge
@versed helm every Halo lore master agrees that gameplay isn't lore lol.
warm ridge
actually I'm pretty sure that pretty much anyone who knows anything about Halo lore would also agree with it.
gilded mason
🤔
fair hazel
what?
warm ridge
?
versed helm
If that's the case, you should recognize that you're using a premise gimmick which was used to build immersion in a mobile game and a trailer which doesn't actually resemble the in-game version to support a rather interesting interpretation.
Not laying down absolutely certain canonical truth.
warm ridge
Cut scenes = Lore
Gameplay (where you can go around and do whatever you want within said game) = not lore related.
@versed helm "premise gimmick" That's not the "only source" I have for it.
versed helm
Yeah, I listed the other.
warm ridge
wot
versed helm
The H2A announcement trailer.
warm ridge
H4 War games simulation stuff (actually helps explain H4's menu's even to)
H5's Multiplayer system (they stopped calling it War games)
The whole "Halo Spartan Strike/Assault" instances.
The few events we got of Chief in Halo: Fireteam Raven.
fair hazel
stuff that happens in gameplay does have holdings in lore, but doesnt necesairly equate it
versed helm
Gameplay (where you can go around and do whatever you want within said game) = not lore related.
Tries to explain Halo 4's menus
fair hazel
ok, so spartans train in wargames which is the premise for multiplayer, and gamesl ike spartan strike and assault
that's simply what that is
warm ridge
halo fireteam raven as well.
fair hazel
fireteam raven isn't stated to be a simulation?
warm ridge
never said it was, I'm focusing on the few events we got of Chief in Fireteam raven, along with vehicles appearing that were previously never seen at all on Fireteam raven.
None of which appeared in Halo 1 at all. Enemies to, and Flood pure forms also appearing, likely broken out of containment cells, we just never saw them, but Chief in Fireteam Raven did see them.
versed helm
Just because it didn't appear in Halo CE, didn't mean it wasn't involved in the Battle of Installation 04.
Once again
Gameplay =/= canon.
warm ridge
I literally just stated that in-game isn't equal to stuff that happens in the Halo Canon universe, but it's easily explained that said in-gameplay events are actually some sort of simulation.
helps explain a lot of stuff, like skulls, easter eggs, the many funny lines you can make Covenant/Marines say, etc.
warm ridge
cut scenes are canon
fair hazel
you somehow think that, but doesn't mean it's true
sharp patio
In terms of the H2A trailer, that was part of the Hunt the Truth marketing campaign so it was supposed to be made to look as if it were being seen from others as a cinematography style to emphasize it being retold as a story as Locke "Hunts for the Truth"
warm ridge
that was Locke exploring the video footage that ONI recovered from Chief's helmet, you know that right? @sharp patio
versed helm
He just said that lmao
I mean, he said a more accurate version of what you corrected him with
warm ridge
based off that, that video footage is what actually happened, but the event we see in H2 is radically different.
fair hazel
the stuff from h2a trailers footage nad stuff doesnt relyl quite happen...
sharp patio
Right, emphasis on the fact it's being seen from someone else's perspective
Not entirely
fair hazel
events of halo 2 different, ok so we go for this on what is canon
warm ridge
we aren't seeing it from "Locke's perspective".
We're seeing it from the video footage that was recovered, and Locke is examining it to hopefully explain the things Chief did in H5, and try to recover him.
sharp patio
The cutscene is fairly similar
warm ridge
similar, but different in quite a few ways.
sharp patio
It's only different because they need to show off new graphics and because it was recreated by a third party company
fair hazel
or that stuff might not have happened either..
sharp patio
Plus marketing
fair hazel
halo 3 trailer =/= halo 3 cutsvcene
sharp patio
Hunt the Truth should not be considered Lore
warm ridge
both cut scenes are different, technically we have 3 different versions of it.
The blur cut scene.in the official release of H2A
The original cut scene.
The 2nd "blur" cut scene that was apparently video footage recovered from Chief's helmet, being what actually happened. @sharp patio
sharp patio
I mean like the Halo 5 ads and trailers that tied into "Hunt the Truth"
I for one loved the podcasts
warm ridge
most Halo 5 "trailers" are also confirmed canon btw.
sharp patio
I'm saying they should not be
sharp patio
Specifically because the entire campaign was significantly changed last minute
fair hazel
spdiviToday at 8:38 PM
Specifically because the entire campaign was significantly changed last minute
credible source
versed helm
Marketing is its own tier of canon that you can trying and integrate into your interpretation if you're an absolute canon maniac.
If you ask me, anyway.
That's the CIA-tier.
fair hazel
not quite no
sharp patio
And while it was an ad for Halo 2 Anniversary it was still part of the Halo 5 Hunt the Truth
versed helm
I've got too much realism in my blood to try.
warm ridge
@versed helm according to what 343 has stated, along with the actual canon it-self, each trailer of Halo 5 (live action ones), H5G, and the Hunt the Truth audio logs are all 100% canon and tie into one another.
versed helm
You hear a lot about what 343 states.
fair hazel
thats not true
warm ridge
the Halo Legends footages is also confirmed canon besides 1 of them.
versed helm
The truth is, 343 said like four things a bunch of years ago and the lore community just runs off precedent
I think 343 would want us to be happy above all else
warm ridge
@versed helm we don't speak of that one
fair hazel
grim even talked about one of the trailers being not actual events but rather shows capability
sharp patio
Except the fact that tying hunt the truth into the actual campaign is a huge stretch
warm ridge
depends on which trailer that shows "capability".
gilded mason
each trailer of Halo 5, H5G, and the Hunt the Truth audio logs are all 100% canon and tie into one another.
...Including things like Locke/John pointing weapons at each other, Blue Team running through some crumbling city, and the H2A prologue and epilogue?
fair hazel
those things are not mutually exclusive...
fair hazel
it depends on the situations and how the damage is inflicted
warm ridge
@gilded mason as far as we know, most of the H5G trailers seem to take place at various different points of the lore I don't really know the whole thing of Locke/John pointing weapons at one another being actual canon as of yet.
But stuff like ONI confirming that "Master Chief is dead" is canon. Blue Team running through a crumbling city was actually meant to show what Blue Team was doing during the stuff at Meridian, and the H2A Prologue is indeed canon to from what we know so far. H2A Epilogue?
pretty much everything shown during Hunt the Truth was canon/video footage.
fair hazel
halo 5 would be the correct version
no..
the pointing guns thing didnt happen
neither did the locke ad
warm ridge
yea was expecting that.
fair hazel
stuff how it happened in game owuld take precedence
warm ridge
oh wait ik what the H2A Epilogue is nvm
gilded mason
Blue Team running through a crumbling city was actually meant to show what Blue Team was doing during the stuff at Meridian
They immediately went from the portal to Genesis, so that's impossible.
and the H2A Prologue is indeed canon to from what we know so far. H2A Epilogue?
The epilogue is the continuation of the prologue. And it doesn't make sense since they don't know things they should already know.
warm ridge
what? Blue Team traveled through Meridian, and got there on a ONI Prowler. They landed on part of the city and searched for the "Guardian" before eventually finding a cave that brought them straight to it.
versed helm
Meanwhile the city was inexplicably falling down
gilded mason
Yeah, and they had no issues getting there
warm ridge
we see parts of the city, but not the entire city it-self.
fair hazel
we don't see a city at all..
warm ridge
at least where they were mining the "glass" is what we got to see.
versed helm
So let me get this straight. Blue Team landed at the mine, hoofed it over the city, had a few buildings fall on them (for no reason since the Guardian hadn't woken up yet), ran back to the mine, then Osiris arrives.
That about right?
warm ridge
Osiris then followed Blue team in there foot steps in the shortest distance possible, before eventually finding them at the Guardian.
gilded mason
Like Looters said, Blue Team landed right at the mine entrance
versed helm
Or did they land at the city and go "there's way too many collapsing buildings here, that one fell on poor John", and then go over to the mine
sharp patio
Sorry I couldn't help myself
gilded mason
lol
sharp patio
I was trying to find the hunt the truth trailer and that showed up
warm ridge
just go to the website https://huntthetruth.tumblr.com/
fair hazel
may be a joke but lets not link to 'leaked' stuff, true or false
yeah that website? what about it
fair hazel
it's like, you're saying. Look at htis thing, and look at that thing
but none of that 'proves' your points
warm ridge
he was asking for the Hunt the Truth trailer so I told him to just go to the website?
versed helm
A familiar criticism
Still listening to the Chief dance btw
OOH yeah the good bit just dropped
The doo-doo-doo doo-doo-doo
warm ridge
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4f673bc7a4cb67ba28fd9bf30bac7c45/tumblr_nm7815HzJY1uokpa1o2_1280.jpg I still like how they decided to release this tbh.
versed helm
doo-do-do-doo-doo-doo
warm ridge
at least we know the cover of Halo 2 is an actual real, in-lore event that did happen.
versed helm
The poor soldier on the left
sharp patio
Hunt the Truth: Guardian is in the middle of a city
Halo 5 Campaign: Guardian is in the middle of a mining operation
versed helm
Alas poor Jimothy
warm ridge
@sharp patio there is more then one guardian, not entirely sure on how many there is but if H5 is to say anything, hundreds of them exist.
versed helm
He tripped over Chief's foot and faceplanted just as the image was taken
sharp patio
Of course but there being more than one on Meridian is a stretch
And yeah, dude needs to watch where he's walking
warm ridge
even touching Chief should be a luxury xd
last anchor
Heh
lilac palm
Are those worms seen in the rig on Meridian?
I’m still looking into it and I’m interested in it now
carmine sleet
You mean the giant worm that swallows one of the mining rigs in the background?
versed helm
Classy reference
last anchor
Little bit of Dune, little bit of Tremors.
copper wigeon
Walk without rhythm, and you won’t attract the meridian worm.
carmine sleet
@versed helm Is that a recruitment document for a clan?
last anchor
Yes...and ita got some interesting lore divergence
carmine sleet
I find the bit about holding people hostage for gold packs to be absolutely horrible
humble yacht
wait so it's not real lore?
carmine sleet
It is not
humble yacht
thanks for the clarification
carmine sleet
No problem
humble yacht
@versed helm clan stuff goes in #484263646843895818 or #471747536441442314
last anchor
It’s hilarious
I’m totally sharing this with the Halopedia guys they’re gonna love it
Maybe Halo Fandom
And it’s gone. Dang
carmine sleet
When I'm not in the middle of a game, I'll share it with you, Orca
last anchor
Thanks bro
carmine sleet
Microfusion reactors are used to power Mjolnir
obsidian thistle
Depends on the version
strong sage
So that means as of Mjolnir GEN 2 uses a different power supply i assume yes?
copper wigeon
The reactor on the Mark V is located on the back, and is pretty small, it can also be set to go nuclear in case of a dying spartan.
Not the biggest explosion but enough to vaporize those close to it
Just to give an idea of the power the little reactors can hold
versed helm
soo we got little little boy in spartan armor yes?
rigid estuary
Lasky or Palmer better not die in Infinite
fair hazel
No..
obsidian thistle
Like most AI. We have no idea.
gilded mason
Tends to, yeah.
copper wigeon
Sometimes they looks nothing like their human donors like with Black Box, one of my favorites https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Box
remote spruce
Blue Box
copper wigeon
Is halopedia the preferred source then?
gilded mason
Ye.
sharp spire
Sup everybody. What are we talking about today?
warm ridge
It's pretty odd when talking about Black Box, as his fate rested in the hands of Serin Osman. The moment she opened said case at all, they'd be contacted by Cortana and would either side with Humanity, or join Cortana instead. Likely how Roland decided to not join Cortana at all.
It's also pretty concerning that if Serin Osman never opened the case, Black Box would've been going rampant inside of it with the other AI's.
@versed helm The creation of AI from of a piece of the host brain doesn't automatically mean they'll copy the original appearance of the host, or have any similarity to them at all. Not only that, apparently the Smart-AI's can change there appearance at will judging from Cortana. Maybe it's only possible with Forerunner tech, who knows.
fair hazel
AI cant change appearance at will
the brain of the donor is vital in creating the AI
experiences lived through help create the AI
warm ridge
While a "smart" AI, Black-Box possesses at his core a set of "dumb" processes, which can be separated from his higher thought processes and function as a "dumb" AI, operating independently of the main AI, but still fully within his awareness; he represents these processes as a battered and weathered version of his normal cube-shaped hologram self. Whether this is a trait unique to Black-Box is unknown.
apparently they can, and Black Box even changes the "dumb-AI copies" of himself to be seen as weathered versions so 🤷
@versed helm Halsey described Cortana's looks as a "younger version of herself" with slight differences despite being made when Halsey was relatively old at the time. Cortana's entire creation was pretty illegal actually.
Cortana also had a "older sister", which looked nothing like Cortana. Keep that in mind as well.
She was destroyed during the battle of Reach, via a fail safe implemented into smart AI's.
like I already stated, Smart AI's don't always look like the "original host brain" and will most likely have entirely different personalities even.
The memories of the previous host can still some-what exist deep within there code that even they're unware of it (Riemann matrix) and as Cortana showed in H4, they can even start relieving exact moments without having any idea what they're doing when going rampant.
the host brain 9 times out of 10 won't really have an impact on it's appearance. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
humble yacht
Black box could have chosen his form after creation
It’s just an avatar. There’s no reason why it wouldn’t be malleable
warm ridge
Aine was also able to change her appearance on board the Infinity so.
Rebecca even had 2 different appearances entirely as well (different ethnicities etc) https://www.halopedia.org/Rebecca
Sloan was also able to make his AI appearance down grade in resolution by a lot, along with changing his voice to a much lower frequency to. This was done to combat rampancy according to H5.
Cortana basically did the same thing, but instead split entire chucks of data off of her in H4 in order to survive long enough to combat the Ur-Didact, and being able to control enough of them in order to stop the Didact from out right killing Chief.
the Cortana we see in H5 even admits to just being a fragment of her former self, one of the data chunks the real Cortana split off in Halo 4 and ended up dying.
"Cortana: "I am a fragment. I am a splinter. The other shards of me have pierced your Domain and explored its reaches. You call me a liar, but you have lied to me. This Domain is made of light. It is glorious to behold. It fills the spaces between space. There is great power here. A power that has let me breach the limits my creators shackled me with.""
The one's that managed to teleport to Genesis did, and managed to survive the entire trip at all did yes. We don't know how many fragments of Cortana managed to make it there, we just know a few fragments of her did.
Remember, not all of the Didact's entire ship was teleported to Genesis, only a section of it was that so happened to have Cortana fragments traveling along on it.
Some of the debris exited over Installation 03 (along with the Ur-Didact himself), others stayed within a debris field around Earth, and some exited over Genesis and likely other Forerunner installations we don't know about yet.
also keep in mind the Ur-Didact's ship wasn't actually destroyed. As long as you have access to the "core seed" and sufficient materials, it can be recreated as many times as you'd want it to be until this core seed is destroyed.
fair hazel
Um. Smart AI appearance permanence isn’t as malleable as people think.
It’s much more fixed and set.
So a smart Ai couldn’t drastically alter what they look like
Some AI are spécial where they have some different forms but. It’s really not that flexible.
In general
I’m sure an AI could spoof but, that’s not a permanent change.
remote spruce
Roland the jet pilot pls
sharp spire
I dig Roland’s design to be honest
humble yacht
Taking BB as an example, it’s said he chose his form because he considers human beneath him and considers himself intellectually beyond the human form. Given that this form is based on his opinion of his creators and how he relates to them, this doesn’t sound like an innate quality but rather a learned one (even if it was learned very quickly). As such, I highly doubt that he was “born” in the form of a black box. That seems to be a conscious choice of representation. Which, if that’s the case, there’s no reason why he couldn’t change that representation drastically if he wanted to. But he has no reason to, so he doesn’t
I think the only reason smart AI forms have been so stable is because the AI’s consider their avatars manifestations of their personality. They become attached to those forms, but that doesn’t mean they are limited to those forms. I bet if Roland wanted to appear more like his brain donor, he could, but chooses not to
last anchor
Doesnt he put a bow on himself in one chapter for Parangsoki's birthday?
fair hazel
: Can a Smart A.I. truly alter or choose it's Avatar? The only example's I've seen were BB and Mack/Loki changing their Avatars.
DragonWarrior24
A: All smart AIs have a holographic avatar that they use for interaction. The image created by the AI to represent itself seem to be drawn from the emotive responses at the base of human behavior, and are almost universally male or female human in various form of costume. However, some do take on abstract forms, with rare examples appearing as geometric objects or silhouettes with perhaps one or two key human features, like a mouth or eyes. These avatars are then customized after achieving full consciousness, but Smart AIs find it extremely difficult to substantially alter their original appearance. The reason that AI systems choose these avatars, are motivated to display them during interactions with humans, and cannot easily change them is not well understood; attempts to eliminate this behavior have resulted in catastrophic failures and personality aberrations.
BB chose not to join Cortana
last anchor
Technically, he let Osman decide if he could get the chance
humble yacht
Where did that A come from?
last anchor
I think it was supposed to be Q: and A:
vivid dust
Didn't Canon Fooders use to have these sorts of questions answered?
humble yacht
it did.
That's why I'm asking where ericky got that answer from
it is his own, or is it from a source
last anchor
Pretty sure its his own, I dont recognize it from Canon Fodder or from Halopeida
balmy turtle
humble yacht
no, but Reach had achievements named after popular quotes from the previous games
warm ridge
I believe the reason Smart AI's find it difficult to change there "appearance" is due to a emotional connection to said appearances.
Like Chimera said already, smart AI's find there appearance a good representation of their personality and how they feel about themselves.
This could also explain Cortana's many different changes over the course of the Halo titles, she went from looking like a smart AI that commands a ship and relatively basic looking, to believing she's the "holder of the mantle" on H5, with the Domain symbol directly on her avatar to, along with what looks like more clothing.
A good example of this is the smart A.I https://www.halopedia.org/Rebecca . She alters her appearance to make humans more comfortable.
feral perch
I knew it!
Someone said that the yellow Elites in CE and 2 weren't Zealots but Field Marshalls or Generals.
But this article tacitly confirms that they are, indeed, Zealots.
carmine sleet
Who said they weren't Zealots?
carmine sleet
DM me
Can I just say, the chapter where the crew of the Ace first meet Spark is really good in Renegades
stable schooner
How does that Article confirm it when that’s the question being asked not the Answer @feral perch
feral perch
I said it was tacit confirmation. It doesn't correct the notion that those Elites are Zealots.
It just says they have various command structures.
stable schooner
I mean Field Marshall And General weren’t even created until Reach so I wonder how that idea got traction
I also Wonder if Gold is Infact tied to higher command positions that Zealots just happen to often have
humble yacht
Even if field marshals were retroactively introduced, they don’t conflict with the zealot class
obsidian thistle
Especially with each Fleet having different structures.
*Which is just a easy way for 343i to change stuff up if they really need it
stoic hamlet
It does make sense though, kind of
The Covenant is very feudal in structure
More like individual petty kingdoms than a genuine united empire
gilded mason
It makes me curious to see what kind of culture/political nonsense goes on in the more fringe systems of the Covenant, compared to the more regularly monitored inner systems.
stable schooner
I hope they stop introducing new ranks though. It’s become far too bloated
stoic hamlet
Only if you assume it’s a connected empire
But it’s not really
So more ranks actually makes sense
stable schooner
Make sense is imo irrelevant it creates inconsistencies and causes unnecessary bloat as an author creates a new rank just for his book
stoic hamlet
I mean.....that’s kind of what a fringe empire made up of feudalistic kingdoms with no real communication between the other would do.
Unnecessary bloat
We see it with like, the HRE and Ancient Rome of our history.
stable schooner
Having 4 Ranks that do the same thing is not good for world building or consistency at all imo. Ancient Rome had organized consistent Ranks and the HRE didn’t even have a set ranking military structure but a relatively organized Fedual structure
gilded mason
as an author creates a new rank just for his book
Has that happened? I honestly don't remember.
stoic hamlet
Rose had an organized ranking structure but depending on where a Legion was based it took up the ranks of the area/changed to fit its garrison.
IIRC the Covenant has done something similar
stable schooner
A Scholae Palatinae was a Scholae Palatinae anywhere in the Roman Empire. Broken Circle created Field Commander if I recall
Though in regards to any media I consider Halo Reach the game the biggest offender in this Regard.
stoic hamlet
Yes, but how a Legion was organized changed, especially as the Empire split into East and West. They may change the name of the rank to be a local pronunciation.
Also, what ranks did reach create?
stable schooner
But it’s still the same rank, ranks evolving over the time as in hundreds of years of time is a whole different thing. And it was consistent throughout anywhere in the Empire even if the ranks significantly increased or decreased in standing as time went on. Halo Reach Introduced the General, Field Marshall, Merged Stealth And Spec Op Elites( glad that got retconned) and changed the roles of Zealots to that of the former Spec Op Elites
stoic hamlet
Wasn’t Field Marshall introduced in The Flood?
humble yacht
😮
stable schooner
Was it? I know HaloPedia doesn’t list it
gilded mason
Close, Field Master.
stable schooner
Thought so
gilded mason
So we got Field Commander, Field Master, and Field Marshall.
stoic hamlet
Could they be the same rank?
gilded mason
Actually, cycling through Broken Circle, "Field Commander" is only stated once, during ancient times. And even then, it was to say Ussa was a "Significant Field Commander". So I don't think it's an actual rank. Or if it was, it's not during the current era.
And then during the Flood, "field commander" was used to refer to a "Field Master" sometimes.
stable schooner
Since Field Masters and Field Marshall’s have both only been encountered as Zealots it’s possible but theirs nothing that states as far as I know that confirms that and Field Masters were Gold vs the Maroon of the Field Marshall
Thanks for clearing up Field Commander Ostral
gilded mason
👍
peak fjord
Color schemes for Halo Reach elites annoyed me, one time I thought I was fighting a Major, it was an angry General who came around and smacked with that heroic melee dmg
split pecan
xD
stable schooner
Biggest tragedy was Reach merging the Spec Op and Stealth Elite Ranks But then that Retcon got Retconned in Anniversary so it’s all good
fair hazel
Biggest tragedy?
stable schooner
That doesn’t involve the huge messing with Fall of Reach With slight exaggeration yes
fair hazel
cause if you were going to go with the mess with the canon that was created your fourth word might have been the last that needed said.
stable schooner
I’m gonna be real Im not following what you just said. ?
copper wigeon
What’s your beef with Reach, besides the Fall of Reach Interference?
stable schooner
For me personally lore wise again not including the Fall of Reach stuff. The Imo Ruining Of Zealots And just making them basically Spec Op Elites, the Merging Of the Stealth and Spec Op Ranks two completely different ranks with non related functions and this isn’t lore related but the overall design of the Reach Elites. Lack of Spartan 2s was also a big missed opportunity for a story about Reach.
stoic hamlet
That’s what I wanna know.
They seem much better now IMO
same with the Spec Ops thing, I don’t see how that’s a bad merger? It makes a lot of sense and gets rid of bloating.......which he had a problem with a well.
humble yacht
I enjoyed the idea of a team of zealots operating opposite to noble team
fair hazel
I enjoy the idea of the same sangheili team doing that
let us remember that rho 'barutamee didn't quite care for the humans
stable schooner
Cause Spec Ops And Stealth Elites served distinct Purposes in lore and Gameplay. Zealots loss their uniqueness in gameplay and lore to basically becoming Spec Op Elites @stoic hamlet
stable schooner
Stealth Elites are scouts and fleet defense that are always invisible
stoic hamlet
Zealots are very much different in gameplay and in lore compared to the Stealth/Spec Ops.
They’re part of their own unique ministry
With their own hierarchy and ranks
stable schooner
Zealots in Reach are literally just reskined Ultras. It’s not just about their ranks it’s about their Honor and Zealotry that isn’t anything like the classic Bungie Era Zealots
I also can’t comprehend your argument when your saying the Stealth Elites are the same as Spec Ops yet call Reach Zealots unique
fair hazel
zealots in reach are part of the Devoted Sentries
during the events of halo reach, they did a lot of artifact tracking
stable schooner
Thanks for the lore Eric but I know their Reach Lore already
long shuttle
From my experience (not much) but zealots (in reach at least) seemed like the ODSTs of the covenant
fair hazel
the zealots are this order.
long shuttle
I don’t have much Halo experience so sorry for not really being able to contribute much
fair hazel
watch, and learn, and ask
long shuttle
Yea, sounds like a plan lol
versed helm
In my book
Trying to draw equivalencies between the military structure and individual units of the UNSC and Covenant is always a little silly
One is a fighting force that's relatively familiar to the typical Western army of modern humanity
fair hazel
Oh not a good idea to try and map covenant
they operate differently
with different ministries and so on
versed helm
The other is a crazy, multi-species amalgamation based on faith, with a military that's structured in a fashion somewhere between Feudal Europe or Japan and something else entirely.
Right.
Would be pretty neat to get the general structure of the Covenant laid out clearly in a source, like the UNSC in the Spartan Field Manual.
fair hazel
I rather not make comparaisons too much to feudral europe or japan because, then people might cling too much to that
versed helm
Fair point.
It's the nearest approximation, though, if you substitute the knightly or samurai class for Elites or late-war Brutes
And Prophets to the Catholic Church
With the bulk of the fighting force beneath that being composed of levied commonfolk, militia soldiers and professional mercenaries
stoic hamlet
^^^
It’s the most similar and describes their military the best.
Zealots and Silent Shadow are best compared to the knightly orders. Hospitallars, Templar’s, Teutonic, etc
spiral jewel
I was watching the end game cutscene to HW2 and got to thinking, what exactly is going to happen with Anders and her Halo Ring, since the Guardian had stopped her and the ring in it's tracks? Is she going to be kidnapped by the created or something?
carmine sleet
We have just gotta wait and see. I do hope that she does play some role in Infinite though since it would make no sense for them to leave her story there
meager delta
Hello and btw what was the covenants version of the spartans
gilded mason
I guess Prelates would fit, since they were augmented.
gilded mason
Yes, San'Shyuum.
fleet wraith
yo just got around to reading silent shadow
rip to crowther
died like a few pages after making my mans john the mc
big f
versed helm
Silent Storm is to ODSTs what First Strike is to SIIs
full forge
How many ODSTs survived Silent Storm?
full forge
I really liked how even the events of First Strike is referenced in Retribution, which takes place around 30 years later.
fleet wraith
Silent shadow was such a breath of fresh air after taking more than a month to read hunter in the dark
I couldn't get myself to read more than a few pages at a time with that book
fleet wraith
Dangit lol
versed helm
It hearkens back to the good 'ol Eric Nylund style
full forge
Oooh, the Silent Shadow were pretty cool.
versed helm
But it has its own identity and voice
full forge
I loved seeing Castor & Orsun.
fleet wraith
Its because the sangheli silent shadows lol
It got in my head
What do you guys think about intrepid eye(forerunner ai found on gao)
I was talking with my other buddy that likes halo and he doesn't really like the books its included in
Im actually really curious whats next for it
I also think its funny how just about all the forerunner AIs have gone off the deep end
full forge
Humanity must be prepared to be worthy of the Mantle of Responsibility.
EXTERMINATE THE UNWORTHY WITH DISEASE
thanks intrepid eye
fleet wraith
I just want someone to find a ai that's like "Yo, what's up Reclaimers! You want this superweapon? All yours, pal"
full forge
Then you'd like Little Bit.
fleet wraith
I guess guilty spark was kinda like that
full forge
Little Bit appears in Halo: Smoke and Shadow
It's a good book, and you'll want to read Renegades as well.
Renegades seems to be a pretty important book.
full forge
Both Smoke and Shadow and Renegades, yes.
Smoke and Shadow comes first chronologically.
fleet wraith
Always get it messed up in my head since in most of the books where the city isn't included they always just say Venezia
full forge
Actually they do visit New Tyne on Venezia, but they also visit other locations.
fleet wraith
I always get excited when I see they include stuff from the kilo-5 trilogy even though it seems a lot of people here dont like it
full forge
I really liked the Kilo-Five trilogy.
fleet wraith
Right?
full forge
I love how Sav Fel glassing the Forerunner ruins as display activated Intrepid Eye.
fleet wraith
I thought it was hilarious how Mike Spenser was basically a museum guide on Trevelyen
full forge
'And here you'll see the giant beast knocking over phantoms and pelicans, searching for you as a snack...'
The novels seem to have a great degree of connection. Really makes it feel as though the world-building done is actually used in other books.
fleet wraith
Yeah nothing really goes wasted
Though i do wish naomi did something more in silent storm
fleet wraith
Yeah good on her
peak fjord
So something that’s been scratching at my curiousity. So within High Charity is the Mausoleum of the Arbiters. Where deceased former Arbiter are pressumably frozen and kept in the sort of caskets like mummies. When the flood invaded and assimilated High Charity. Would the Gravemind utilize the combat skill and knowledge of these deceased Arbiters to his advantage?
full forge
Unlikely, as many of the containers would have certainly been empty; Not all bodies could have been recovered.
peak fjord
Imagine an army of Arbiters, attacking you in Cortana
static basalt
For example, R'tas.
static basalt
His body got vaporized.
full forge
WHAT
static basalt
So...
full forge
R'tas Vadum?
static basalt
Ye
peak fjord
R’tas is a the Halo 2 shipmaster- nvmhe’s the edgelord in HW
full forge
Galaxy's best ship master, beloved friend of Thel 'Vadam?
full forge
Thank god.
static basalt
If I wanted to say half-jaw i would.
full forge
That's Ripa 'Moramee, yeah.
peak fjord
I miss Rtas
fleet wraith
Ripa had a long fall
full forge
Apparently Rtas is getting hunted by ONI or something other?
fleet wraith
Then presumably esploded
gilded mason
He was being spied on, yeah.
peak fjord
Ripa woulda lost if Anders didn’t stop Forge
versed helm
I dunno
full forge
Forge had his hand on the hilt of his knife.
static basalt
It depends.
full forge
Knives are shorter than plasma swords.
versed helm
I think events played out basically as well as they could've for Forge
static basalt
8/10 goes to Ripa.
versed helm
I think Anders intervention probably saved him both in that moment and in the second fight
"There will be no female to save you this time"
static basalt
Roasted.
full forge
Forge goading Ripa is the only reason he won out that fight tbh
versed helm
The only reason Ripa would've let Forge live the first time is because he saw him as totally humiliated and broken
fleet wraith
Esp coming from a sanghelli lol
peak fjord
My face will be the last thing your pathetic eyes ever see. 
versed helm
And therefore underestimated the heck outta him the second fight
fleet wraith
Ripa was a big boy
static basalt
Very big.
peak fjord
Serina was comical relief
static basalt
Ripa was big by brute standards
peak fjord
Along with Forge
peak fjord
And Regret ain’t edgy
full forge
I understand they had different VAs and body actors, but why did Anders just completely change ethnicities from HW1 and HW2?
versed helm
He's a little more villainous mastermind than he was in H2
peak fjord
More of a Saturday night villain
static basalt
Regret was just tired of people's sh*t.
peak fjord
I’ll get you next time! UNSC!
versed helm
"The great journey requires sacrifice" sticks in my head
And then he sorta drums his fingers together
peak fjord
BLASPHEMY
static basalt
BLASPHEMY
fleet wraith
Cryo sleep works in mysterious ways vero
versed helm
My point is that the style of HW in general, even regarding the basic behaviour of characters is a little more edgy.
fleet wraith
That's what im chalking it up to lol
versed helm
HW - especially in the Blur cutscenes - was always going to be a very slick take on the Halo universe
Slick oftentimes translates to a little edgy
full forge
Heresy! Remove this FILTH!
peak fjord
Wasn’t Chief in cryo whenever he wasn’t on mission?
full forge
I don't think so.
static basalt
"Five years..."
peak fjord
Thought I read it somewhere
versed helm
Most UNSC personnel associated with the Navy spend an awful lot of time in cryo
full forge
I mean, almost everyone goes into cryo during slipspace jumps.
versed helm
So they don't need to worry about feeding them and accommodating them
peak fjord
Technically... now Chief is biologically the youngest spartan since he was cryo’d... twice
static basalt
"five long years."
versed helm
They're just into their 20s, I believe.
peak fjord
Ur right
fleet wraith
TECHNICALLY the gammas are the youngest
But yeah out of the 2s chief has been icicled for a while
fleet wraith
Ikr still like 18 during retribution
peak fjord
Chief, a spartan just entering his forties, younger than everyone else.
laughs in Red Team being 20
fleet wraith
They mustve had a hell of a time with that cryo sickness after the spirit of fire finally woke em up
full forge
18 in Retribution?
fleet wraith
Yeah i think so
full forge
Retribution takes place months after Last light.
static basalt
Think about Red Team's freezer burn, man.
full forge
"Oh. You're not even 15 are you?"
versed helm
Cryo sickness is seemingly unpleasant, but not debilitating. A very focused sort of individual seems to be able to ignore it.
static basalt
Jerome was confirmed to have worn his armor in cryo, imagine the freezer burn.
full forge
Naasty.
versed helm
I'm not sure it gets worse the longer you're in cryo though
It probably caps off at some point
full forge
Poor Gray Team, they got quick-thawed in armor.
versed helm
And while it'd be unpleasant I imagine MJOLNIR's gel layer does mitigate it somewhat
Like, freezer burn is described as causing blisters in The Flood, right?
full forge
I can't see how, the cryo has to permeate to the skin in order to function.
versed helm
Freezer burn happens because of the material being frozen to your skin, as I understood it
fleet wraith
Dont they pump you full of some stuff too?
versed helm
You inhale bronchial surfactant to support your lungs
fleet wraith
Id imagine thats where most of the sickness comes from
full forge
I mean, being frozen alive doesn't sound very pleasant in general.
versed helm
And also are injected with cytoprethaline in order to not die
full forge
So how does Lasky deal with his Cryo allergy?
I mean with the new slipspace technology he doesn't really have to anymore but still.
versed helm
Presumably since he's a naval officer he's allowed a moment of reprieve
full forge
Huh, I guess he wouldn't actually need to go into cryo at all in 2558 would he?
versed helm
For the allergy to die down
The thing his allergy seemed to be primarily affecting was the training where he jumped out of his pod and went directly into the fight
Which in actuality is probably more like something Marines would have to do
full forge
True enough.
fleet wraith
i mean coming from a military viewpoint his allergy would effect readiness for the entire ship since hes the commanding officer
versed helm
So after he made it through training he probably just toughed it out
fleet wraith
imagine if they all got pulled from cryo and they immediately engage other ships and lasky is coughing up a lung giving out half orders
full forge
I wonder if Lasky would also take ginger supplements, but for cryo instead of slipspace.
fleet wraith
it wouldnt look good to any of the bridge officers if their co cant perform
versed helm
The crew isn't normally in cryo when you're jumping into combat
In order to take advantage of Lasky's allergy they'd have to ambush his ship when the crew wasn't prepared for battle anyway
static basalt
When you cough up a lung on the flagship of the fleet.
full forge
'Roland, take the WHEEEEEEEL '
fleet wraith
even then im pretty sure they were all awoken before transitioning into normal space
full forge
Mhm
fleet wraith
im sure he takes something to help alleviate the symptoms
just coat the inside of his uniform with anti itch cream
and put on a vapor strip lol
versed helm
Actually, good thought.
Lasky probably gets thawed out before he'd ordinarily be
So if the captain gets thawed a few hours before exiting slipspace he might thaw out a day or so
It'd give you a pretty hardcore reputation
fleet wraith
"Yeah well my CO gets out of cryo a whole DAY before going back into normal space"
Lasky has what it takes to get into the Salty Spitoon
static basalt
Lasky a homie.
fleet wraith
Everyone is a homie when compared to Del Rio
full forge
Who needs recon anymore, Chief? This is a blowthrough op, we're just gonna throw as many resources as we can until we win!
static basalt
No recon armor?😪
full forge
wha
versed helm
Bungo gib reecon
strong sage
By lore , the recon armor is built for oni agents/operators?
carmine sleet
Recon was developed alongside Scout armour after the Materials Group was commissioned to make it, but nothing says it was necessarily developed for ONI Agents only. Yes, it's only seen as armour pieces for Mjolnir suits and Dare's helmet is Recon, but that isn't necessarily evidence it was made only for ONI
stoic hamlet
It seems like no one honours exclusive contracts anyways, if we look at Air Assault.
carmine sleet
Indeed
fair hazel
Several Spartans wear recon
Madsen. I think someone in fireteam Bailey or Jackknife
Hazel
peak fjord
Also remember Spartan-B312 was one of the first individuals to test the helmet during the Battle of Reach. I have an image too.
feral perch
Also I’d like to think she was one of the first individuals to break it, heh...
Needle Rifle joke
peak fjord
Huragok exploding is a major hazard. Do not recommend going near a Huragok if you don’t want your helmet being launched far away into a building
feral perch
Blame bomb-happy Jiralhanae
peak fjord
Blame abusive Sangheili
feral perch
Sangheili weren’t responsible for Jiralhanae behavior.
copper wigeon
I was under the impression it was the Jiralhanae who had "weaponized" the engineers close to the end of the conflict.
feral perch
They treated the Brutes the way they did because of the Brutes’ innate barbarism.
I don’t believe any Sangheili ever weaponized the Huragok. The ones on Ascendant Justice certainly weren’t strapped with explosives.
gilded mason
Maybe not 'innate' barbarism. Perhaps it's simply a result of the cultures that many are raised in. Unless we know of Brutes raised elsewhere that are still really aggressive.
feral perch
I just know that pretty much no effort has been made by any writer to show a different side to the Brutes.
stoic hamlet
The ones on Solemn Penance were weaponized
feral perch
Oh?
stoic hamlet
Wait, no
I’m misremembering names
The initial fleet on Reach had weaponized Hurogok
Long Night of Solace’s fleet
feral perch
Where is that stated?
stoic hamlet
It’s shown
full forge
I mean, it's simple asset denial isn't it? The San'Shyuum probably made up some rule about it.
gilded mason
I just know that pretty much no effort has been made by any writer to show a different side to the Brutes.
Yeah, it's irritating when that kinda thing can happen when writing non-humans.
stoic hamlet
Unless it’s simply for gameplay
feral perch
Where’s it shown?
full forge
I think the Kig-Yar have pretty good diversity, along with the Sangheili in terms of personality.
feral perch
The Huragok on Corvette and New Alexandria don’t explode and damage nearby enemies do they?
I’m pretty sure they just die.
stoic hamlet
They do, IIRC.
feral perch
Hm.
full forge
I don't think there's any engineers in Reach that don't have bomb harnesses.
feral perch
I was under the impression that the kind of explosion effect was like the Yanme’e exploding when you headshot them
just for show
gilded mason
I think the Kig-Yar have pretty good diversity, along with the Sangheili in terms of personality.
Eh, as far I know, Kig-Yar still seem to mostly be this "We're all pirates or mercenaries" thing. As for Sangheili, it's a bit better when it comes to certain writers like Staten, Shirley, and Denning.
full forge
Some that come to mind for me are Nor & Sav Fel
full forge
Smoke and Shadow & Renegades is really good when it comes to other species, I remember there's a scene where a bunch of humans are walking around with a Sangheili bodyguard/companion
gilded mason
I really should get to reading those two at some point.
full forge
Renegades is a really important book in terms of developing events.
tribal knoll
Species name of the Hunters. Go!
humble yacht
leggo my eggo
last anchor
Individual worms are Lekgolo. Gesalt form is Mgalekgolo for the one we know most commontly but there's a couple others depending on the resulting gesalt form.
The ones that pilot Scarabs, Harvesters, and the flesh-pulping "Gears 5 Flock origin" ones from Nightfall are all entirely different subspecies
warm ridge
@stoic hamlet The initial fleet on Reach didn't weaponize the Engineers at all?
They don't explode at all in Reach, but in ODST they do.
stoic hamlet
I definitely remember them exploding
warm ridge
by "exploding" you mean there bodies combusting, leaving the Covenant harness to fall to the ground? Not exactly exploding tbh, more then likely just a fail safe for when the engineer does actually die (probably implemented by the Forerunners so they don't fall in Flood hands or something, possibly it could be remotely activated to by the Forerunners but who knows)
in ODST they exploded and a bunch of explosive pellets went all over the place. This doesn't happen in Reach at all.
carmine sleet
They do explode, but it isn't like in ODST where they have explosives strapped to them by Brutes to ensure they are killed no matter what
warm ridge
read what I just said
fair hazel
Their bodies popping like gas balloons maybe but not kaboooom
warm ridge
Remember, the Engineers aren't a "species", they're biomechanical robots essentially, created by the Forerunners. Wouldn't surprise me that there bodies "pop" in Reach is due to some Forerunner fail safe when the Engineer is close to death.
carmine sleet
So more accurately, they pop opposed to exploding?
I'd say they count as a species. Just because their origins lie with the Forerunners using biomechanics to create them, doesn't make them any less of a species than everything else
warm ridge
in ODST they explode, and it only happens when a Human gets really close to one of them, or the Engineer itself attempts to remove it. Or if the shield surrounding them depletes to 0 I think.
due to Covenant bombs.
in Reach, they just float to the air and "pop".
@carmine sleet
Calling Engineers a "species" would be like calling A.I's a species as well. They're very similar.
"Being mechanical structures rather than organic life forms, they survived the activation and some remained aboard various M-series facilities.[3] Several were left within one of the Forerunners' shield worlds, Shield World 006, and would remain there for the next 100,000 years."
stoic hamlet
We’ve seen engineers that don’t pop when they die
Lighter Than Some and one of the ones in Onyx come to mind.
carmine sleet
AI are completely digital, Engineers aren't and are clearly biological
warm ridge
"After the Great Schism, the now predominantly Jiralhanae-controlled Covenant military placed explosives charges onto the bodies of Huragok, in order to prevent them from falling into the hands of UNSC forces. The Huragok did not initially resist this measure, as they were made to believe that humanity would force them to defile Forerunner relics should they ever be captured. Once they realized it was to make them suicide bombers, however, many Huragok made attempts to resist receiving charges, usually failing. The Huragok were warned that if they disobeyed orders, their attached explosive charges would be detonated. However, some realized that the only chance they had to escape Jiralhanae brutality was to aid humanity in defeating the Covenant. As a result, the Huragok worked to allow a handful of their compatriots escape their commanders."
@carmine sleet "The Huragok are not a natural, biological species at all, but rather an artificial life form created by the Forerunners. While they possess no true tissues or organs, their nanomechanical surrogates so closely mimic their biological analogs that they seem almost indistinguishable to observers."
Calling a Engineer a biological being would be like calling a robot a biological being basically. Like I said, they're very similar to AI's and are even able to absorb A.I's directly into there bodies (see: Virgil from ODST)
carmine sleet
You clearly have never heard of jellyfish. They don't have any organs in the traditional sense, yet are still considered a living creature and a species of fish. Engineers are unique in terms of their origins and biology, that doesn't suddenly mean they cannot be considered a species in the galaxy
warm ridge
"As a result of their biomechanical nature, Huragok possess the ability to interface with electronic forms of data storage, "downloading" data directly into themselves. They appear to be able to "read" biological life-signs as well; during her time within Shield World 006, Lucy-B091 was analyzed by a Huragok, who scanned her brain activity in an attempt to determine the cause of her vocal disarticulation."
Jellyfish are not biomechanical in nature, and do actually possess organs but function very differently.
humble yacht
There’s an easy way to gauge whether Huragok qualify as a life form
carmine sleet
Person, I literally said "They don't have any organs in the traditional sense" That's different to saying they don't have organs as you implied I said
warm ridge
The point is they do have organs lol. Engineers by comparison don't, and at best possess a unique form of breathing. Beyond that, they don't need to eat, sleep, or do much of anything at all beyond fixing and repairing things. Some do have personalities of there own, but so do A.I's. The fact that Engineers can interact, and download digital data should tell you something already.
carmine sleet
Again, I never said they don't have organs
warm ridge
Engineers also were unaffected by the Halo array 100%.
carmine sleet
I just want to note that Halopedia lists Huragok as a client species of the Covenant and describes them as sentient
warm ridge
It states that they weren't, and were found on various Forerunner satellites, so yes, they were unaffected.
warm ridge
stoic hamlet
But where did they specifically get that source from?
warm ridge
Being mechanical structures rather than organic life forms, they survived the activation and some remained aboard various M-series facilities. Several were left within one of the Forerunners' shield worlds, Shield World 006, and would remain there for the next 100,000 years"
stoic hamlet
Isn’t the Beastarium full of retconned stuff?
warm ridge
where do you see Beastarium?
oh wait, that's just an appearance of an M-Series satellite. Not "they were found here"
carmine sleet
Huragok are also listed under the species section on Waypoint https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/species/huragok-engineers
Even using the wording of "are an artificial species created by the Forerunners"
Them being made by the Forerunners doesn't invalidate their status as a species in the galaxy
warm ridge
@stoic hamlet yes dude I already saw that, but Halo 3 Beastarium is an "appearance". Not only that, that's a different M-Series facility then the one described on San'Shyuum's moons.
warm ridge
Onyx is a "shield world" wot
stoic hamlet
Onyx was only hidden because of potential threat.
warm ridge
m-series facilities aren't anywhere near shield world capabilities. We also know very little about them.
stoic hamlet
We don’t know that
To my knowledge anyways
We have no real idea of their capabilities
warm ridge
We do though because the only area we know of them being found on is a moon, not an entire shield world planet.
stoic hamlet
It’s possible they could have been reseeded there
carmine sleet
There is basically nothing on M-Series facilities in the lore, so anything could be possible with them
stoic hamlet
We also don’t know what they actually do. They could have slipspace pockets like Onyx
warm ridge
Engineers are stated to of survived the activation of the array, so that's all we know.
stoic hamlet
We really can’t say
Nothing to my knowledge directly states they survived except in places like Onyx
humble yacht
Do huragok make more huragok?
stoic hamlet
Yes
warm ridge
Yes, they can if they are needed.
warm ridge
They don't "make them" in the traditional sense of a life for mbtw.
humble yacht
Of course
warm ridge
More like putting together another "huragok" in the sense you put a robot together.
humble yacht
But it’s not like an AI can make another AI
In that sense, huragok are more alive than a computer program
warm ridge
They actually can if given remote electronics and a human brain to make one on (as far as we know how A.I's can be made), but I highly doubt any human in the UNSC would allow them to do this lol.
warm ridge
I'd argue they are a form of A.I given they can interact with digital data, save, and store it.
stoic hamlet
Technically we can do that
humble yacht
Technopathy is not an ability necessarily restricted to digital entities
warm ridge
They interact with it in a way that we can't, the way an A.I can.
carmine sleet
Would that mean a cyborg is an AI if they can store digital data?
Because last I checked, cyborgs aren't AI
stoic hamlet
In halo we very much can interact directly with digital data
Keyes getting ship readouts displayed on his retina, for example
warm ridge
BTW, Huragok can essentially bring each other back from the dead as well with just 10 percent of the original mass of said Huragok.
humble yacht
Forerunners could also interact with technology in a direct way
warm ridge
"Huragok are capable of self-repairing all but the most catastrophic physical damages inflicted upon them, as long as the individual has access to a sufficient amount of raw materials. Huragok can also repair each other if they have access to at least ten percent of the damaged individual's original mass"
carmine sleet
Huragok being able to help others of their species that are dead or dying is just a unique trait of their species
warm ridge
This isn't changing the subject, this is stating that Huragok can do things a normal organic being can't do at all without the need of other electronics.
carmine sleet
Spiders can spin webs, that's something many other species can't do
humble yacht
Nobody is saying engineer’s aren’t unique
stoic hamlet
We know of species in the real world that can regrow entire limbs
stoic hamlet
Idek anymore
carmine sleet
That's what Person was trying to argue
Basically saying they can't be counted as a species because they were made by the Forerunners
warm ridge
I'm stating that Engineers are more "mechanical/robotic" rather then functional life forms, similar to digital A.I's rather then a living being.
humble yacht
I think they’re pretty far removed from AI like auntie dot and Cortana
I agree that they’re kind of like robots
Just their composition is different
warm ridge
BTW Huragok reproduction works like this:
"Huragok reproduction is overtly more mechanical than it is biological, though there are still strong similarities to biological reproduction. Huragok reproduce by gathering organic materials from their surroundings to "build" another Huragok. The new Huragok is built with the deft application of their tentacles' cilia. This new offspring's air sacs are then filled with a mixture of lighter-than-air gases
Each Huragok that takes part in this process relays all the information that they have learned to their offspring.
Understandably, it is advantageous to have as many Huragok contribute to this process as possible, raising the "intelligence" of the offspring. Additionally, the Huragok offspring will grow to have a wider range of experience if a third parent was involved in the reproduction."
humble yacht
That’s the biggest distinction
AI don’t reproduce by any mechanism
They are simply produced
The self sustaining aspect of a huragok population make them an actual form of life
If huragok were only able to be resupplied by forerunners actively building them, then I wouldn’t classify them as a life form, but rather just a fancy robot without any metal parts
warm ridge
According to Bestiarum (not entirely sure how lore accurate it is now or whether or not lore has been retconned from it, but you could argue that it's recorded history/info is from third party sources rather then directly from the event itself, or how the A.I managing said system sees these events) Engineers can live to about 10,000 years, but with the addition of other information there life span could more accurately be described as infinite if they can avoid serious injury or disease.
warm ridge
all of this stuff kinda points from Huragok being organic beings to entirely something else, like an A.I that's capable of self reproducing by creating a new body when one is needed. It's even said that Huragok will move all of it's memories and information to the newly built Huragok, and this newly built Huragok will be even smarter when more then 1 Huragok is present.
humble yacht
That’s the difference between AI and life forms
A new engineer is made from contributions from at least 1 engineer
warm ridge
They also seem to have the ability to receive Forerunner transmissions in there minds, such as when one is calling for repairs.
humble yacht
If you give Cortana a human brain and she makes a new AI from it, she didn’t contribute any of her self to the new product
warm ridge
but that Smart A.I will have contributions from the human mind it was made from, with thoughts from the original mind still persisting as well, same with emotions.
humble yacht
Yeah but it’s only propagated for a single generation
copper wigeon
The only problems I see with the Huragok is they don't really have a metabolism do they?
humble yacht
No they don’t need to eat or anything like that
copper wigeon
Other than that they follow the other classifications of life.
stoic hamlet
Technically neither do plants, at least in the same way we do.
They need water sure
humble yacht
Engineers feed off of the joy of working