Just concerned confusion
#lore-and-universe
warm ridge
@versed helm According to Halo lore, all Precursor creations in the Milky Way galaxy were created from the fact that the actual Universe is a "living" thing. Not bound by time, physics, space, or anything of the sort at all. It can do whatever it wants, and has a limited life span like every living creature (in fact this actually has some truth even to our current universe based off current scientific theories, the universe will die off some day).
Based off this logic, all Precursor artifacts could actually have there source be in another dimension (or at least some of them were) and it could explain how the Domain still exist, and how it's slowly repairing itself.
Precursors for example also live in another dimension entirely, they preceded there biological forms and have died thousands of times, living through many wars, many fights, everything you could imagine. The Flood is one of these many forms.
versed helm
Would make sense all their artifacts and other devices are spread across multiple dimensions, as the star roads are
Crazy that they’re more than likely 5th dimensional at least
last anchor
Higher I would say, considering the only way to destroy them is to use neural physics, like a Halo
versed helm
Yeah, this reddit post is great https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/crxw67/respect_the_precursors_halo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app shows just how powerful they truly are. Makes a great argument that they’re probably 11-th dimensional
last anchor
Beyond even Forerunner comprehension
Its like the Celestials from Star Wars but more grounded, once again
humble yacht
The Celestials as in the Father, Daughter, and Son?
versed helm
Yeah, those 3 were nuts
humble yacht
I think they were more grounded than the Precursors, as far as fictional characters go
gloomy condor
don't forget about abeloth
limpid meadow
@humble yacht How so?
humble yacht
They had singular forms (they could transform, yes, but they didn't have multiple bodies) and could be killed (albeit very specifically). They were powerful but not to the point where they couldn't be affected by lesser beings
versed helm
Thank God they decanonized Abeloth tbh
last anchor
Nah, the OG Celestials, the ones that built the Maw, Centerpoint, couple other things.
The ones the Rakata stole tech from which let them build the Star Forge
humble yacht
that sounds like Legends stuff
last anchor
It very much is Legends.
IMO, Centerpoint is totally a Forerunner creation. A space station that shoots GRAVITY?
humble yacht
Sci fi has been weaponizing gravity long before Halo
versed helm
Something that I would love to see is a full novel from the Insurrectionist perspective. I love me some UNSC/UEG, but I would love to get even more Insurrectionist stuff
last anchor
Cole Protocol got pretty close
warm ridge
jackal shield discussion let's continue
last anchor
I dont remember any instance of the Covenant retreiving shields and turning them back on. Then again maybe the UNSC never saw it happen since a Covenant victory left few survivors
That being said S-IIIs used them so
Hmm
limpid meadow
Spartan-IIs used them during Sigma Octanus IV, didn't they?
They did, just confirmed
last anchor
Yeah, I think they did.
Why the hell did I think you couldnt turn them back on...
limpid meadow
Probably got that mixed up with the Fuel Rod Gun
Side note: I had how, over time, Fuel Rod Cannon and Fuel Rod Gun have basically become interchangeable.
last anchor
Its funny, the Cannon makes more sense on the Banshee, but the Gun makes more sense on a person...
But it was the other way around back in the day
limpid meadow
The Fuel Rod Gun was the weapon carried by infantry, and the Fuel Rod Cannon (also known as an Assault Cannon) was what Hunters had.
last anchor
What did the Banshee have then?
I swore it was the Gun on teh Banshee and the Cannon on the shoulder.
stable schooner
What is the Banshee bomb actually?
limpid meadow
It's a fuel rod cannon
CE Game Manual refers to the Banshee's armament as a Fuel Rod Cannon.
CE for PC manual refers to the infantry weapon as a Fuel Rod Gun
last anchor
Thank you.
The term "Banshee bomb" came from Halo 2 if I remember right, during the tutorial on how to fly them.
Its not REALLY a bomb obviously, operates more like an unguided missile or rocket
limpid meadow
It is canonically guided, that feature is just disabled for players for the sake of balance.
last anchor
Or its being flown by a 152 with 100+ days playing XD
I hatttteeeeeee Temple Banshees in Warzone so much.
Either way, still more like a missile than a bomb
last anchor
It was used in pro games Im fairly certain
fair hazel
hi @last anchor
last anchor
Ay
static trench
The UNSC should develop a gravity weapon similar to the Gravitational Beam Emitter from Blame! and Knights of Sideonia
The weapon could literally punch holes through enter planets
gilded mason
That sounds just a bit overpowered.
static trench
well, when you consider that the gun is literally the size of a pistol (the one Killy uses), it is overpowered
matter of fact, in Knights of Sidonia, the weapon couldn't be made for the most part, they had to use the Placenta of an alien called Guana to grow the weapon because it was thought to be impossible to make
but the weapon itself can punch through the nigh indestructible matter called Megastructure
anyway, overpowered isnt really a thing in the Halo Universe
Look at what the Precursors and Forerunners could do
using gravity to punch holes in planets isn't really more impressive than Star Roads when you think about it
its thought to use a stream of gravitons to push matter out of the way OR it condenses everything within range of the beam into a volume less than 0
Blame! is a good manga. I recommend it 100/10
gilded mason
All that stuff was from dead/abandoned civilizations. You were talkin' about the UNSC doin' it.
static trench
well, you called it overpowered
how is it overpowered?
whats punching a hole in a planet to making a star go supernova?
doesnt the UNSC have a bomb that can do that? iirc
versed helm
It's not really thematic for the UNSC
that sounds more like a Forerunner bit of kit.
static trench
true
versed helm
The UNSC is all about nukes and coilguns.
static trench
but thats the next step, right?
versed helm
I suppose.
Though I do think more gravity based weapons should certainly be on the cards.
Like gravity manipulation is fundamental to basically every part of the Halo universe. Humanity even uses it for child's games in the form of grav ball and in car suspension for high-end civilian models.
static trench
true
versed helm
It wouldn't surprise me if the firing operation for Covenant carbines and needlers is gravitic in nature.
Some sort of gravitic catapult instead of magnetic coils.
Humanity likely still sees magnetic weapons as more efficient, though.
But you could have some interesting prototype stuff going on.
static trench
very interesting stuff indeed
static trench
Lasers is more of a starwars thing xD
Though
I would love to see a UNSC ship equipped with a Ship sized Spartan Laser
or a small hand held version of a Mac Cannon
versed helm
The anlance-class frigate apparently has energy weapons.
static trench
oh?
stoic hamlet
Actually Star Wars uses plasma
versed helm
The hand-held version of the MAC cannon, by-the-by, is called the stanchion.
static trench
You know the name of the frigate?
versed helm
Yeah, it's what Infinity carries in its sub-bays after its post-Halo 4 refit.
it's got a tiny little turreted MAC and lasers, apparently.
But the stanchion we only see in HW2
stoic hamlet
And an energy projector, I think
versed helm
But it plays a big role in other media
Like Contact Harvest and Silent Storm
It's like MAC gun principles used in a sniper rifle
stoic hamlet
It’s has been a thing for years.
versed helm
Different variants fire either tiny ball-bearings or penetrator flachettes
stoic hamlet
A lot of stuff exists in there EU that’s never mentioned in the games
MA5K when? D:
Or the M6J
Or the Warthog APC
or the Skyhawk
Etc
static trench
I wonder if we'll ever know more about the PRecursors that went to another galaxy
stoic hamlet
Yis, gib moar dronez pls
static trench
Or if Humanity will go to another galaxy
versed helm
Though I mean I know you like the MA5K
But why not dab on the tryhard BR55 with an extra 0.1mm of spank
stoic hamlet
I was just using that as the example, tbf.
versed helm
With the MA2B and its 9.6mm ammunition
stoic hamlet
Like I wouldn’t mind seeing a Skyhawk or something
Or one of the Mark II’s
MA2B would be cool as well
It’d probably fire like a beast
versed helm
Question though
Y'know the intro to Contact Harvest, how Avery the bois are wearing "impact plating" over their fatigues
Do you reckon impact plating is actually a specialized thing, or just another way of referring to standard UNSC ballistic armour or body armour?
stoic hamlet
Presumably it’s just Marine body armour.
Though it could e an ORION/NAVSPEC thing.
versed helm
I have a theory that it might be something akin to ODST armour
versed helm
I mean, the dudes he was doing the Tribute op with were referred to simply as NavSpecWar Marines later on
So there's no guarantees on Byrne
versed helm
It would
static trench
im still reading that precursor link
stoic hamlet
There’s no reason to assign him together with Johnson otherwise
static trench
they are so interesting yet scary xD
versed helm
They're spooky bois for sure
stoic hamlet
Very lovecraftian in some ways yeah
static trench
I hope they bring Greg Bear back to work on more lore and books
versed helm
That's actually a unique opinion
A lot of people struggled with the Forerunner trilogy
It makes my head hurt but they're certainly a fun aspect
static trench
Nothing like deep lore
versed helm
True enough.
Though I will admit, my kind of "deep lore" is collecting sources on the durability of standard UNSC infantry body armour
static trench
I want to see Combat Skins put to use honestly
versed helm
Or working out if the UNSC's M118 7.62 ammo is the same as the modern one or a futuristic derivation of it
static trench
i get people like MC's iconic suit, but i'd love to see him obtain a combat skin
like 343 guilty spark told him about
versed helm
Well the odds of that are pretty slim I'd guess, from an out-of-universe perspective.
He just got shiny new crowd-pleasing armour
At some point, maybe he will.
It'd be cool from a story standpoint but Halo has always had to grapple with its contingent of meathead fans.
static trench
Would love to see Humanity obtain the Janus Key pieces again
hopefully we see them in the next game
gilded mason
I can't see much good coming from a faction gaining control of what the Janus Key promised.
versed helm
Spartan Ops is unironically one of my favourite parts of Halo 4
vivid dust
the cutscenes were cool
versed helm
I think they were going to bring it over to Halo 5 with the Janus Key story line but cost/benefit early on dictated that it wasn't gonna happen
So we got the Escalation shenanigan
gilded mason
Zappity-zoop
obsidian thistle
More on indefinate hiatus.
The plotline is still technically active till the Absolute Record is dealt with.
vivid oak
Hey guys how do you think Infinite's story is gonna go
fair hazel
very well i hope
versed helm
what the drug used for cry sleep? the one used to prevent ice crystals form forming?
gilded mason
Cytoprethaline
versed helm
isn't there something they have to ingest?
It's some kind of fluid for the lungs or something
gilded mason
According to the wiki, just the injection, and this:
During the first four minutes anesthetic gas causes the subject to become drowsy. Then another gas reacts to form a bronchial surfactant when inhaled, coating the passages of the lungs to help ensure a smooth wake cycle.
versed helm
It's true that UNSC are not to their full combat potential or "groggy" after waking up from cryo correct? besides spartans
gilded mason
Not sure about normally, but quick-thawing can make people disoriented, even Spartans.
versed helm
I think i was thinking about quick-thawing, but i read somewhere that S-IIs aren't affected because of a drug they were augmented with
gilded mason
As far as I know, they're effected, if only because of that one line.
Sorry for the quick thaw, Master Chief. Things are a little hectic right now. The disorientation should pass quickly.
versed helm
either i misread what i did read, or possibly they get over the side effects quicker than others
stoic hamlet
They’re definitely still effected.
A quick thaw means troops can be combat ready much quicker than by going through the full wake up cycle, but there’s a massive risk of death, as shown in Dirt.
strong sage
Woah cyro sleep can cause death? I mean like uh the awakening process
last anchor
Cryosleep itself can cause death if you arent careful too. Without the drug you can suffer irriparable tissue damage
strong sage
I see i seee so thats why I remembered that lasky always hurting when he went out for combat training
carmine sleet
Lasky was suffering from an allergic reaction to the drug they injected into him, he wasn't suffering from tissue damage
nimble hawk
Then why is it that in the movie forward unto dawn lasky looked older than in Halo 4
versed helm
It's called "the difference between being able to animate exactly whoever you want and having to cast some guy for a very minor role in live action".
Think about it.
vivid oak
@versed helm Master Chief actually felt a freezer burn like pain from being thawed out so quickly, at least that's how things go in Halo: The Flood
strong sage
Is it possible that unsc marines manpower pre-covenant around 10 millions or it could be way way more than that? Im trying to estimate whats the unsc marines number
versed helm
@versed helm I wouldn't say it is. That window Blue Team managed to shoot through in their first mission of Halo 5 was around 4 3/4 inches of plate glass
If 7.62 can feasibly penetrate that enough to soften resistance of the sheer body momentum 4 600KG Spartans would bring otherwise, then that's far beyond any small-arms today
Then there's the whole quote of the SRS99 penetrating 4-5 times as much ballistics gel-equivalent to modern 14.5x114
Uh, what are you responding to?
Oh yeah
The M118 thingo
Yeah, total agreement
lofty hollow
Way more then 10 million marines
Also we gonna talk about how the spirit of fire can wage a ground war with the banished, where is all this manpower coming from
versed helm
Ground war may be overstating it.
"Operations" is probably a more accurate term.
Halo Wars gameplay is not to be taken seriously.
balmy turtle
How come GS doesn't teleport MC in front of the Index in the Library?
versed helm
I think he might say in the mission.
Containment protocol stuff.
Alternately the Flood Chief cleared out were preventing the local teleport systems from functioning, and as Chief progressed they were reclaiming the Library from the Flood.
By preventing I mean, had disabled with brute force.
carmine sleet
Don't the lifts act as some sort of security protocol? Like, each time he took a lift, it unlocked the Index until he was able to reach it and take it? Or is that something I am getting from nowhere?
limpid meadow
Something like that, yeah.
The energy barrier that protects the Index needs to be deactivated before it can be retrieved.
stoic hamlet
If I recall, the Covenant deactivated the barrier during Halo 2, allowing the UNSC to slip right in and nab the index.
vivid dust
I think we as the Arbiter do yeah
but even before that didn't the In Amber Clad find a way around?
lofty hollow
Yeah then the flood jumped on her
strong sage
So does that mean possible more than 100 million i assume as well? As seeing reach alone has 500 mil+ of personal if im not mistaken right? ^^
limpid meadow
100 million what?
stoic hamlet
Beat me to it Toa, lol
Oh, total manpower
Way more than 100 million
At least a few billion
limpid meadow
Man power in relation to what?
limpid meadow
Ah. That would probably be in the billions
strong sage
100 millions for unsc marines xd
Sorry for not being clearer
But still thou for post war i wonder how they still have personnal afterall the devastation and casualties caused by the covenant war
stoic hamlet
Everyone’s gotta do their part.
And they have plenty of recruiting drives.
Outpost Discovery, for example
strong sage
Ehhh outpost discovery? What do you mean fam? O.o
Is that like uhh recruitment center or something?
lofty hollow
I would argue the UNSC military would be atleast 1 billion strong if not 2 billion
That’s still an ABSURD number
1,000,000,000 Human beings
1,000,000 is quite large in our time
Outpost discovery was that live event that went on for a bit, it was themed as a recruitment drive
limpid meadow
If we assume around 10% Humans are in the military in some form (not dissimilar from the modern US) , and assume at least 40 billion humans pre-Covenant war, that would be around 4 billion service men & women.
lofty hollow
You could easily have 400+ million marines
Now a bigger question is UNSC ship numbers, obvi many marines aboard those
limpid meadow
Currently, about 14% of US service people are marines, so at least 400 million, I'd say
As for ships, well, we know 150 were present at reach, and Home Fleet was over 100 ships.
strong sage
Woah woahh that makes much more sense 👍
last anchor
And Cole had...300+ at Psi Serpentus?
limpid meadow
fair hazel
interesting seeing how bungie wasn't sure how to handle the lore early on
I honestly think a lot of halo's success early on derives a lot from luck, and circumstances which brought certain important aspects to fruition. Certain key efforts too and certain visions.
last anchor
Right things, right place, right time.
Truly though is that so different from any other series?
fair hazel
Gameplay decisions and stuff, a lot of them still fit with what i said
remote spruce
The everything else is presented well enough to make it special
fair hazel
honestly i think bungie got lucky when making halo
take the way halo 2 multiplayer was developped
max hoberman, and at some points how little importance they placed but it finally ended up happening
remote spruce
Bungie got lucky with limitations?
fair hazel
or how the fall of reach nearly didn't happen
last anchor
Which would have been a true disaster IMO. In this case, I gotta hand it to microsoft for making them go through with it
hearty dust
That thing where it slows the cursor down ever so slightly when you hover over the enemies was pretty innovative to be fair
remote spruce
Gameplay loop
The best part of Halo CE
remote spruce
That didn't really affect the series success though
fair hazel
the terminals in halo 3 and IRIS campaign I think are amongst the most pivotal pieces of lore that affected the way it turns out
Halo's story was also really important
remote spruce
If anything the vagueness allowed more lore to be added without issue by Halo 2
fair hazel
I don't think bonnie ross would have continued halo and founded 343 industries without all those story things going right.
remote spruce
From a pure normal player standpoint, the story only needs to be presented well
fair hazel
Doubt it without the fall of reach. Which nearly didn't happen.
And let's remember how she was one of the first people to read it.
remote spruce
Halo's initial transmedia attempt was pivotal to Halo's current media standing (a whole bunch of books and stuff)
But the main thing was always the games
last anchor
Which have stood well enough on their own
hearty dust
I haven't actually played anything after reach yet. I remember the story was a little...all over the place. Then again my concentration span was too lol
If you read the books based on the halo series do they actually tie in much with the games?
remote spruce
Somewhat
last anchor
Reach was kind of a mess because Bungie didnt really try too hard to make it fit with Fall of Reach's canon
remote spruce
Read: they didn't try at all
fair hazel
The story has always been a super important part of the game
last anchor
Oh they did, otherwise they would have made Noble all S-IIs
fair hazel
And without bonnie ross, no 343 industries
No fall of reach, i dont think bonnie ross would have stepped up for halo and been that much in.
remote spruce
Yes but Bungie showed unintentionally that a very good story isn't needed for game success
fair hazel
halo CE had an interesting story for what it was
hearty dust
I just replayed halo CE yesterday for the first time in years. Looking back on the original xbox days, that was one hell of an adventure tbh
remote spruce
Halo's story wasn't thought up fully in advanced, or heck even the 1 game wasn't really thought out completely (Flood, Forerunners, etc.)
The presentation saves all of that
The gameplay is what drives it together
fair hazel
i like fireteam raven, complements it well
hearty dust
It reminds me of the alien vs predator movies a lot
last anchor
They took heavy insperation from Aliens.
remote spruce
The only luck part is that Bungie had good sound people, and the gameplay was more due to the limitations they had
hearty dust
I thought they might of but I don't blame them it worked out well. Steve downes did a great job imo
Never heard of the halo fireteam raven game
fair hazel
When you see untrue statements and speculation that was marked as facts, be passed on and now random people think it’s true... oh no. That is not good.
carmine sleet
What were the untrue statements, if you don't mind me asking?
fair hazel
I guess I have to be specific. Installation’s 00 vidéo on pillar of autumn.
It talks about Armour composition. Which is totally made up. We don’t know the composition of the titanium-A is used. But it’s presented as fact.
carmine sleet
Ah, I see
Yeah, if I was to put speculation into something like that, I'd make it clear it's speculation
fair hazel
But now people are believing t. So that’s not good. Got to fix up my reddit account to dispel the untrue statement stuff.
carmine sleet
Good luck
stoic hamlet
He's still making false claims?
Didn't a few Halopedia guys talk with him about that?
gilded mason
I think I remember him also pushing that "John has the Iso-Didact's geas, and Halsey/Cortana has the Librarian's" theory.
stoic hamlet
He pushed that BS "theory" That John and B-312 were both equal and the only Hyper Lethal rated out of all Spartans.
Which immediately put me off of him.
gilded mason
He pushed that BS "theory" That John and B-312 were both equal and the only Hyper Lethal rated out of all Spartans.
Oh boy.
stoic hamlet
I don't necessarily have a problem with him, but he doesn't fact check, and he purports outdated, incorrect lore, and even his own ideas as 100% confirmed canon.
if he fact checked, and specified what was his own theories and canon I wouldn't have much of an issue with him.
fair hazel
I don’t know about new stuff.
I like lore ppl and videos. But I do r like when there’s innaxueaxies or unfacts
stable schooner
Oof watches HiddenXperias The Sentinels designed to destroy the Flood video and hears Gold Sentinels have stronger Shields when they don’t. Apparently the Captain name use is more wide spread then I thought.
versed helm
So, he's saying it's not made out of Titanium-A?
fair hazel
not that it's not mamde out of titanium-A, but giving the composition, which is unknown
humble yacht
Titanium-A is just some unknown titanium alloy
whether it's 10% nickel & 90% titanium, or some other blend is what's unknown
versed helm
Why make it an Alloy? Titanium is perfectly fine by itself
humble yacht
actually
pure titanium is quite brittle and very difficult to forge
it's abrasion resistant and naturally non-rust, but not the easiest metal to work with
versed helm
Titanium is extremely tough though, the same durability as steel, it is true that it's very difficult to work with
humble yacht
actually not the same durability as steel
versed helm
it's not?
humble yacht
like I said, it's brittle compared to steel
versed helm
Is it used more just because it's drastically lighter?
humble yacht
titanium is popular due to it's lightness compared to steel, as well as its resistance to abrasion
but if you made, let's say, a sword out of pure titanium, it would actually be subpar
in terms of edge retention
i guess that means it's technically soft compared to steel, unless you heat-treat and temper it
versed helm
Then how come it's used in tanks, and chiefs armor is made out of titanium? if it's brittle and subpar
What part of alloy do you not understand
The armour of UNSC tanks is a form of titanium-ceramic blend.
It's all meant to be intentionally vague so people don't freak out about the metallurgy.
All we know is that the UNSC favours nanocomposite materials with a large titanium component.
From that, you literally cannot make any assumptions or critiques given the sci-fi setting.
And frankly, you're not supposed to. Just accept that the UNSC uses titanium-based molecularly-reinforced metamaterials.
nimble hawk
I think the armour is made of titanium dibordie. It is as hard as diamond
last anchor
How brittle is it though? Hardness and britality dont always mesh well.
You can smash a diamond with a hammer Im pretty sure
carmine sleet
You can slice diamonds if you cut at the right angle
lunar condor
Afaik even the best material works better as an alloy, maximizing the positive nature of the materials and minimizing the negative
last anchor
Thats just how chemistry works
lunar condor
Materials have a limit anyway, the only real way of protection is force fields like energy shields etc that are scaleable on energy
No matter how much material quality and composition is refined stuffs gonna get blasted to pieces anyway
Or melted or vaporized
versed helm
Astute observation.
Halo's universe has reached the point where matter has reached the endpoint of its usefulness as personal protection.
Even primitive human weaponry is more than sufficient to blast holes in Covenant nanolaminate.
lunar condor
I remember when i first read ghosts of onyx and i was so floored by the idea behind the shield world. I always thought what would be the most efficient way to protect a solar system from anything. And then they just go like "just merge the solar system in a dyson sphere and put it into slipspace 4head"
last anchor
Thats a lot of protection
fair hazel
and luck
humble yacht
Well I don’t think luck qualifies as an expertise
It’s more an attribute
You can’t be trained or proficient in luck
last anchor
Technically in previous lore, Chief was the leader and Fred was CQB/knives
You can actually kind of see that in the Babysitter where when facing two Sangheili he dual weilds combat knives
343 seemed to want him to be a CO though. Not many knife comments since then.
fair hazel
honestly that seems more like the fans giving him the attribute
humble yacht
I had heard somewhere that Fred was best at hand to hand combat
fair hazel
im pretty sure that didnt come from the lore
remote spruce
Thankfully he gets the trusty DMR instead of a knife
humble yacht
Well he still has a knife on his person
last anchor
That was Nylund. Specifically First Strike.
He balances a knife on his finger while inside the Pelican taking them to Reach.
Something something "hes the best with knives and even other Spartans are awed by his work"
fair hazel
balancing a knife didnt quite indicate that
and he's second best sniper
and spartans all have their knives
thin imp
So does anyone else think that Kat and Emile's new lore could have implications that humans are finding out about the precursors? I've been thinking about it. idk, but i would really like to see more on them, i know their mysteriousness is part of what makes them so great, but i just want mroe
gilded mason
So does anyone else think that Kat and Emile's new lore could have implications that humans are finding out about the precursors?
What makes you say that?
thin imp
well in the text, they were talking about whatever it is that they were supposed to go and investigate, but they don't know what it is. they ask if it could be forerunner, but they don't know for sure. in my opinion i think the researchers have seen plenty of forerunner technology to decide if it was.
some people think it's locus from gears invading halo universe but i deisagree, and honestly hope not
gilded mason
this is not to be recorded on Halopedia as core canon.
versed helm
kat and emile both died before the forerunner were named
gilded mason
It's just a thing to facilitate them crossing to another game universe.
versed helm
@versed helm Not so.
Forerunners were named some time well prior to the Meridian conflict.
Cortana would have contained that information
Thank BB. The fact that the Covenant worship something called "Forerunners" is taught in schools.
By BB I mean Battle Born.
And by the way, Cortana never has revelations in CE about the Forerunners existing.
She just uses their name out of the blue.
"The Forerunners built this place..."
only after being inserted into the control room and analyzing
Well, your problem is with the canon now, not me.
🤷
Personally I think it's fair enough that the human public would learn the basics of Covenant culture over 27 years of conflict.
And CE's various information dumps are vague enough to be re-interpreted.
For example, did Keyes create the translation of the respective Covenant word to Halo on the T&R, or was the term "Halo" coined by ONI experts analysing the Covenant religion? A term Keyes or Cortana encountered by reading up on intel, perhaps.
I mean, the ring is labelled "Halo" on the Autumn's bridge, so you can make the argument that when he says "they call it Halo", he's introducing the concept to Chief and the Marines while simultaneously communicating to Cortana that their suspicions have been verified by overhearing the guards.
CE is nice and vague, oftentimes.
warm ridge
@last anchor Actually to the UNSC, Fred was always the leader of "blue team", in Bungie lore or 343.
Fred just let John take the role of leader instead because he always saw John as the true leader rather then himself, and it's definitely paid off for him.
warm ridge
@versed helm Technically it goes like this:
Kelly is the fastest, speed type. This is why she's equipped with a shotgun in H5.
Linda is the best sniper, shooting and killing enemies from afar. This is why she's equipped with a Sniper in H5.
Fred is the best Marksman, while being excellent at CQB combat as well. This is why he's equipped with a DMR in H5.
John is basically the "jack of all trades" type of guy. Most notably he's really good at close/mid quarters combat with things like assault rifles, battle rifles, pistols and so on.
@versed helm the name "forerunner" has been known by the humans for years, you know that..right? Decades, even before HW1 apparently.
versed helm
there was no correlation with who they were though
warm ridge
in halo wars 1 there is most certainly a correlation with what and who the "forerunners" are, and hw1 takes place in 2525 (the covenant themselves even call them "gods" while Professor Anders listens to the entire thing before escaping)
so what are you going on about
you do realize forerunner tech isn't a "new" thing to the UNSC, right..? new locations and discoveries sure, but the UNSC have known about them for decades.
even ONI secretly knows the truth about ancient humanity vs forerunners vs flood and all that.
strong sage
But isnt like uh spartan trained and good with all weapons fam?
trail wyvern
@strong sage
Well, yeah but people have a specialty normally. Don't you have something yourself that you're better at then others with?
trail wyvern
I'd say so. I've viewed them like that myself considering their training.
balmy turtle
What prevents a Spartan rebellion?
humble yacht
Indoctrination
balmy turtle
And that's enough? No Spartan minds going hay wire?
carmine sleet
There's nothing to cause their minds to go hay wire
humble yacht
Most are completely loyal to the UNSC. A few instances of defection have occurred
carmine sleet
Indeed, they're just using standard brainwashing and indoctrination techniques
Indeed
feral perch
Some as young as four years old, in the Spartan-III program
balmy turtle
What was stopping them from killing their abductors? That had to have happened at least once.
feral perch
Their abductors were grown men and they were scared children.
They weren't abducted in groups.
You mean the Spartan-IIs, right? The Spartan-IIIs were recruited more than abducted
carmine sleet
They didn't kill any, and by the time they could've easily killed their trainers, they weren't going to as they were fully indoctrinated at that point
balmy turtle
I guess they no better not to capture disobedient kids.
carmine sleet
Many of them were disobedient at the beginning. Imagine if you were taken by a shady government agency, last thing you'd want to do is become a soldier for them
balmy turtle
You'd probably want to shank one of them in the neck when their backs were turned but then again they know where your family lives.
humble yacht
When they were abducted, they were normal kids.
The idea of "shanking" someone probably wasn't really in their head
balmy turtle
I guess some of the more troubled kids would end up as marines in the long run.
humble yacht
Not necessarily
balmy turtle
Hm?
humble yacht
Childhood hardship is not a prerequisite for military service
balmy turtle
Even ODSTs?
humble yacht
I’m sure there are plenty of ODSTs who had normal, happy childhoods who just wanted to serve their government
balmy turtle
You have to have at least a couple screws loose to volunteer as ODST.
humble yacht
Buck, for instance
Typically, having a “screw loose” would prevent you from getting into the military
balmy turtle
I imagine an alien invasion would drop standards quite a bit.
Or a looming possibility of one.
carmine sleet
The Covenant weren't known to humanity until 2525, which was after the S-II program began
balmy turtle
Weren't they made to be space robo cops?
carmine sleet
S-IIs were meant to be deployed as special forces, not for policing people
balmy turtle
And to quell any rebellion against the UNSC till the Covies tossed a wrench in that plan.
carmine sleet
Yes, but not by going in and policing them, they use tactics such as small team infiltration ops, which are commonly done by special forces
It's much better to destabilise the leadership instead of waging open warfare against the innies
balmy turtle
In other words cut the head off the snake.
carmine sleet
Basically
humble yacht
They were simply the best when it came to humanity's response
besides, guerrilla warfare tends to be most effective on large regimes that are spread wide
the bigger you are, the more weak points you have, or something like that
gameplay is not representative of canon
gameplay is how it is because of balance. It has to be playable
if your shields were too strong in the game, there'd be no challenge
According to the book "Halo The Flood", they don't
an Infection Form got on Chief and started to reach into his armor; he would have been toast had Cortana not shocked the infector
¯_(ツ)_/¯
vivid dust
wasn't his shield depleted?
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
stoic hamlet
Shields are a lot stronger in lore when dealing with projectile weapons
But not as strong when dealing with Plasma
Half the weapon sandbox would be like, useless if they were using their lore stats.
last anchor
And the other half would take your head off from 60 paces with one shot.
gloomy condor
Imlevelzer0 yeah his shield was depleted because a combat form hit him with a wrench
fair hazel
energy shield are pretty strong
for spartans
so many instances of spartans tanking bullet fire too
remember too how big infection forms are
gloomy condor
Aren't they like as big as an AR
last anchor
Bigger.
Take a look at the ones in the Beachhead cutscene in Halo Wars 1. Those are pretty accurately sized
last anchor
Can I just comment on how weird its description is?
Like, whos idea was it to preserve a Flood form and put it on display in front of a bunch of civilians?
Yeah they got two Spartans on standby but at the same time that seems...really really really dangerous.
From a lore perspective, anyway
Actually on that how do you preserve a Flood form without immersing it in a statis tank like the Forerunners did
copper wigeon
From the description at outpost and Gabriella all the cells on the infection form were frozen
buy frozen I meant dead
and then frozen for taxidermy
humble yacht
probably treated it with a fixative, like formaldehyde
copper wigeon
Yeah, If I could upload a picture of it here I would
last anchor
I've seen pictures, its more just...everything we know about the Flood says they're stupid good at escaping contaiment if you aren't incredibly careful.
I probably would have felt better if there was like, a warning sticker around the bottom of the case reading "Warning: Explosive Charges" or something
So in case it wasnt as dead as they thought the whole case blows up
humble yacht
if the sample was fixed, it's dead
last anchor
Fair enough I guess.
copper wigeon
the case seemed pretty secure,
last anchor
Might just be me remembering the Mona Lisa
humble yacht
not much info on what crosslinking does to Flood dna, though
stable schooner
@stoic hamlet what do you mean by this? Plasma weapons Do do more damage against shields in game. I hope flood popping on shields isn’t considered non Canon
gilded mason
That's what he said.
vivid dust
TIL there was a Covenant version of the manual in Halo 2's box
gilded mason
He said shields were less effective against plasma weapons, from what I read.
vivid dust
I can't believe I'm still finding out about Halo 2 stuff
stable schooner
Yeah from lore which to me suggested they weren’t in game. Was a little confused
copper wigeon
bruh the halo 2 manual is so sick
last anchor
No kidding
vivid dust
Where could you get that Covenant manual?
copper wigeon
collectors edition
stable schooner
Does it say anything about Ranks?
vivid dust
I always try and use none of the UNSC weapons during Sacred Icon and QZ
nothing about ranks no
copper wigeon
Not really, but talks about the weapons and a bit on Thel's trial
stable schooner
Darn. I think only the mission matters to Thel. He uses Camo despite being a former Zealot
vivid dust
On Uprising though I end up using the Rocket Launcher because I have to save my Elites okay
last anchor
I mean its not like he can be any more disgraced than he already is
gilded mason
Indeed
stable schooner
And Elites get annoyed but it doesn’t stop them from using the weapons lol
last anchor
The Prophets dont care what the Arbiter does to get the job done, hes going to die anyway
Also at that point, considering how things were going, I think their idea of honor had been shattered pretty heavily
They just wanted the Jiralhanne to pay. And if that ment using heretical human weapons, well, they knew what they could do to flesh
I have no doubt a Sangheili relished the feeling of a human shotgun obliterating a Brute's face
stable schooner
Zealots have my mad respect though. If their given any other weapon then a Sword they will only Melee with it and refuse to drive Vehicles
stoic hamlet
I said the human weapons would be near worthless if they used their lore stats.
Plasma would be absurdly powerful
stable schooner
Fun fact In ODST Human Weapons Actually do 50% less damage against shields
copper wigeon
nice
vivid dust
which doesn't make sense but whatever
gilded mason
If their given any other weapon then a Sword they will only Melee with it and refuse to drive Vehicles
I dunno if I'd quite respect them for that. lol
vivid dust
Here's something I'm wondering
Should Arby actually be using human weapons while going for Delta Halo's Index, as his honor is already shattered anyway?
stoic hamlet
I’d say no
stable schooner
They have Real Honor, no Stealth and only Holy Weapons like a real Holy Warrior.
stoic hamlet
Or ever, actually
gilded mason
lol
stoic hamlet
Lol
stable schooner
I think yes he would
stoic hamlet
Holy Warriors in history were not honourable
humble yacht
If he didn't, then the alternative would be he didn't get the index
vivid dust
I do use frags but that's it
humble yacht
which would be worse than death; it would be failure
stable schooner
He uses a flamethrower in 3
vivid dust
He's allies with humanity in 3 though
humble yacht
yeah because to not ally with humanity would likely have resulted in the Covenant winning
gilded mason
yeah because to not ally with humanity would likely have resulted in the Covenant winning
As in, them activating the Ark?
stable schooner
Still Elites still care about their honor in 3 and not all Elites we’re willing to chill with humans no problem. I think once Thel became Arbiter doing his holy mission was the only priority
vivid dust
also, he realized he'd been fighting the wrong enemy his whole life
so I'm sure that by H3 he doesn't actually mind using them
last anchor
The Gravemind helped with that ironically, and then you can see his soul shatter in the mid-level cutscene for Great Journey when he hears Spark tell the truth of the Rings
vivid dust
I mean he even grows out to respect humanity
stable schooner
Thel is realistic imo and I think he would use Human Weapons if it helps him start the Great Journey
vivid dust
ye
stable schooner
Of course not before he’s Arbiter but by that point his own honor and life is irrelevant to him
Also I don’t care what y’all say. Halo 2 Zealots are HOT
gilded mason
Bah, blue is better than gold.
humble yacht
Maroon ftw
stable schooner
Lol coming from the Minor over here. You can talk when you can afford a Sword
gilded mason
wow words hurt u know
stable schooner
I’m sorry I’ll buy you a new Combat Harness as an apology
gilded mason
You insult me further. To just replace a harness with so many memories, unthinkable.
carmine sleet
What if I just happened to give Ostral a sword?
gilded mason
thank
stable schooner
Bah! I bet your Harness is shiny and new just like you as you hid behind your Major squad leader
gilded mason
I'll have you know it took quite the thrashing ~~and basically total power failure ~~ on Alpha Halo.
stable schooner
Please, we both know you didn’t survive no Demon Magnum on the Holy Ring
humble yacht
K guys, enough role play
gilded mason
I'd continue, though I think- yeah that
stable schooner
Lol sorry fair enough
vivid dust
I just heard the Fillion ODST say out loud "you know, they are more fun to fight than Elites"
in front of literally five Elites and the Arbiter
copper wigeon
Rip
stable schooner
He got bribed by Bungie. Bungie propaganda
Also that darn ODST makes it hard for me to accept Buck wasn’t in Halo 3.
vivid dust
I like that they got Halo 3 voice actors to voice Alpha-Nine
helps grounding them, making them look like more "regular" soldiers
not that ODSTs are regular by any means, but they're obviously less unique than Spartans
stable schooner
Especially tough when I get The voices of Buck, Dutch and Mickey as the 3 ODSTs on Covenant.
obsidian thistle
A part of me is kinda sad the old "ODST" Pre-mission interviews didnt use the same actors.
carmine sleet
Aye, but then again, I wouldn't exactly say Romeo's VA looks like him
obsidian thistle
Yea. But that said I wouldnt of minded Nathan Fillion himself to of been there.
carmine sleet
Aye, agreed
obsidian thistle
Still a shame the only video/audio record (not behind a fans locked videos) is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBhXn29_wnc
*And yes I very much regret missing my time to record that fully by 1 day
carmine sleet
Aye, that is indeed a shame
versed helm
What do you think is the canonical appearance of the exterior of Installation 04, the CEA & Fireteam Raven look or H2A?
obsidian thistle
Least be said. The CEA/FR version seems to keep popping up.
versed helm
Speaking of Fireteam Raven, how were there Pure Forms on the ring when it was in the feral stage during this conflict?
feral perch
They thought it would be cool. Same for Keyminds on the Ark.
The distinctions between feral and Gravemind have been blurred somewhat.
obsidian thistle
Halos store Flood forms.
feral perch
That too.
obsidian thistle
You see this on Delta Halo with the Map Cold Storage in Halo 3.
So least be said the same can occur in Alpha Halo.
feral perch
But the fact that they function without a Gravemind would have been questionable with older canon.
carmine sleet
I'd say it's almost certain that each facility that was used to research the Flood had pure forms inside them
feral perch
that would make sense. Why limit yourself to just spores and pod infectors?
If you’re going to keep samples of the deadliest threat in the galaxy, might as well go full stop
versed helm
I guess they'd have these forms stored on all the rings, but would the Flood at the feral stage really think about breaking other forms out of some containment?
I'd guess so.
carmine sleet
Indeed, there's only so much you can learn from spores
versed helm
That seems more like how it'd be in it's coordinated stage
I think there'd be some instinctive decision-making processes going on in each infected mind that tells them to take actions which further the outbreak.
Personally, my headcanon is that for the most part the specimens were locked away pretty effectively but on 04 the Covenant were just absolutely ruthless in trying to discover the secrets of the rings, burning through deadlocks and ignoring warning after warning.
There was probably a Prophet involved.
gilded mason
Seems likely
carmine sleet
You mean a Prophet being all like "Open all the doors, we must know everything we can, even if it kills us!"
versed helm
But on 05, the situation was handled quite well even with the monitor out of commission. Once again, we can blame interfering modern races and interests for the eventual escape.
obsidian thistle
Actually there is a "small" debate on the release of the Flood.
It all falls down to.
What was the full extent of the security systems John-117 shut down near the Cartographer.
gilded mason
Oh dear.
versed helm
Bah. Nonsense. Though it would be compelling if there was any official basis for it besides Chief shutting down some security systems at one point.
I doubt the Forerunners would make it so that shutting down the security systems for a door to a map room would also release all the Flood specimens, so it must be a point of compromise.
If it's anything like that, Chief inadvertently disabled secondary security systems that were being used to block off the outbreak, maybe in the ring's substructure.
It wouldn't be initial containment, though. That's too improbable.
obsidian thistle
I believe 343i/Bungie never actually confirmed it. The Flood release actually happens around that period of time.
feral perch
Does “Hunger” shed any light on the feral Flood’s decision making capabilities?
it’s creepy for sure
versed helm
But regardless, I still think there's always an argument to made for preserving Flood specimens.
There's no way the Sentinels managed to get every bastion of surviving Flood matter with the solvent.
Better to encounter an outbreak in a relatively controlled environment, I suppose, then have a new colony go dark and any ships start randomly depositing more Flood across known space.
If you're not living in a society that's literally founded on fundamental misunderstandings, the odds are you'll learn something from all the information on the ring and be ready when you inevitably encounter them on your own.
There's info in the Field Manual about Spartans IVs fighting Flood vestiges postwar, so clearly the events of 2552 were fortuitous.
And I have heard some pretty compelling theories about Far Isle...
Halo array pulses don't kill infection forms, do they?
My current understanding is that they probably only kill Flood forms with assimilated neural matter - infected beings and keyminds, which debilitates and stalls an outbreak but the uncoordinated forms just wait it out.
carmine sleet
"Halo doesn't kill Flood, it kills their food." I'd say that answers your question
versed helm
Right.
So scattered across the galaxy there are probably treasure troves of waiting infectors ready to pounce.
Like that jar room from Aliens.
carmine sleet
If there is, they're more than likely dead, not gonna last long without food
versed helm
I'm not sure Flood need food to sustain themselves, actually.
They need it to become a real threat and expand, but 05 is pretty strong evidence that they might just be able to enter a hibernating state.
Like the Necromorphs in Dead Space 3
My whole model of the Flood is that they're not so much about mass, which they generate themselves at a certain point, but it's all about consuming and utilizing neuro-nervous networks. Smart bits, which they use to coordinate.
So if I were to make the Flood in an RTS, their primary resource would be "minds", and they'd be able to spawn pod infectors for free, y'know?
I guess they'd accumulate that resource by infecting bodies and piling them into their proto gravemind
From which they can spawn keymind warforms and other useful pure forms
obsidian thistle
Well do y'all want some great news.
gilded mason
Y-Yes.
obsidian thistle
Something I just found. 😄 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exPfSdUF90o
One of the ODST interview clips was recovered.
(Well found)
prisma oasis
By the way, if there’s ever another Halo book where the Flood has their appearance, I do hope that the Tank and Juggernaut Forms appears in that book.
last anchor
Holy hells no way! I thought that thing was buried?!
remote spruce
Inb4 no flood
versed helm
I give it a good 50/50
warm ridge
@versed helm @carmine sleet The Flood can go into hibernation for long, long periods of time. 100,000 years though is way to long.
versed helm
I dunno how you figure that, exactly.
warm ridge
Installation 05 is a good example of the Flood gathering biomass of all living creatures on the ring.
versed helm
Sorry, were they not relatively well contained on 05?
Until the library was breached, that is.
warm ridge
In every ring, containment procedures are exactly the same.
versed helm
Not what I was saying but okay.
warm ridge
They were very well contained but after so many years of the Monitor not maintaining anything, the Flood broke out.
versed helm
I mean, how did they gather the biomass of all living creatures on the ring
When Chief saw living creatures while hunting Regret
Do you mean after they escaped?
warm ridge
That question was already answered lol
The Flood on Installation 05 was really old, you know that..right? The out break happened thousands of years ago.
versed helm
I am aware.
This conversation is encountering difficulties because we're having communication breakdowns from both angles.
warm ridge
and within that time they gathered biomass on the ring. Lots of it.
That's how a Gravemind was formed at all.
versed helm
They gathered all available biomass within the quarantine zone.
warm ridge
Tree's, grass, living creatures, it's all biomass for the Flood.
Plants, whatever.
If it's organic, it counts as biomass.
versed helm
Thanks for that information that I didn't give any indication I was not aware of
Christ
Anyway, if the Flood can't hibernate practically indefinitely, then there's no reason for the Forerunners to have left samples for study on the rings.
Unless the Forerunners feared more Flood emerging from outside the galaxy which to me wouldn't be worth the risk.
warm ridge
You do realize the Forerunners put them in stasis chambers..right?
Basically a more advanced version of cryo sleep.
versed helm
Oh my god, try and read for a second.
warm ridge
I'm reading but you aren't making any sense.
versed helm
Now, you're saying that Flood who weren't on the ring would die from old age, right?
Outside of stasis, they can't hibernate for 100,000 years.
warm ridge
Where are you getting that from lool
versed helm
You
You mentioned me to say that
Remember?
So if there was no way Flood could have possibly survived outside a ring
Then why put Flood in stasis on a ring
If they could've just wiped them out and be done with it
warm ridge
No. I stated the Flood can't last for 100,000 years without biomass.
If they're in stasis chambers/cryo chambers, then yes, they can.
Read what I said properly next time bro.
versed helm
This is literally the peak of irony.
You continue to completely misunderstand me
While insisting that I'm misunderstanding you
warm ridge
Around the year 97,227 BCE, the Flood on Installation 05 escaped and evaded containment due to negligence on the part of the installation's monitor, 2401 Penitent Tangent. It is believed that the Flood's escape was either the result of a system malfunction that was not properly addressed by Penitent Tangent or due to the meddling of visiting species. The Flood quickly grew out of control around the area of the installation's Library; the Flood were kept contained by a Sentinel wall built around the Library. Somehow, the Flood on the ring were able to amass enough biomass to create a Gravemind. 2401 Penitent Tangent attempted to control the situation, but he was captured by the recently formed Gravemind. Without the monitor, the Sentinels of the Halo lacked a controlling intelligence and so many of the structures around Installation 05 fell into disrepair, and most of the installation came to look like a jungle strewn with ruins.
Read that.
versed helm
I am literally not contesting any of that.
warm ridge
Explains every question you had.
versed helm
No, it doesn't.
I'm not examining the outbreak on 05, I'm examining why the Forerunners kept samples at all.
warm ridge
To study, to find a cure. Do you even know anything about Life workers?
They kept the samples in hopes the next species that finds them would also do the same.
versed helm
But why would you need to study them and find a cure if no Flood could have survived outside of stasis.
warm ridge
Also, Not all Forerunners agreed with that plan.
the majority did though.
because the majority were Life workers at that point in time.
versed helm
Right. I'll start from the beginning.
warm ridge
All the Flood were in stasis chambers..what?
They can break out if the systems Monitor neglects it.
stable schooner
Actually if the flood were able to survive thousands of years in the Quarantine Zone without more Biomass. Seems they can live without for a long time but then how we’re all the galactic wide Infection Forms mopped up.
versed helm
My supposition is that there must have been a risk of other civilizations happening on Flood who had been crippled by the array firing but not killed by the solvent - waiting infection forms and the like - for the Forerunners to even take the risk of keeping samples.
Those samples would only be useful if another uncontrolled outbreak happened.
warm ridge
Also, it is technically theorized that the Gravemind did indeed extend beyond the Quarantine zone. Which is also how he was able to gather more biomass.
otherwise Idk how he managed to grab Chief in the water.
versed helm
That is an interesting point.
But I mean, it doesn't answer my question. Just look at what happened on 05.
Keeping the Flood around was a huge risk.
If there were no other surviving Flood outside of the samples on the rings, it would be really silly to do so.
Thankfully, Halo Wars and the Field Manual have set a precedent - the Flood on the rings were not the only surviving Flood in the galaxy.
Hence, justifying the Forerunner's decision to increase the overall risk of the Flood but providing those who happened on the rings a chance to understand them.
warm ridge
What happened on 05 was due to negligence by the systems monitor. If another species encountered the ring, it'd be given a warning, then be destroyed by the rings defenses (the monitor engaging these defenses), or the Monitor would greet them, but keep them away from any quarantine zones or Flood containment area's with Sentinels and Enforcers etc.
versed helm
Not denying that. Totally understood it beforehand.
warm ridge
Not only that, the Monitor could explain it all to said individuals, unless said monitor was going rampant (343 guilty spark)
You can even see in Halo CEA's terminals that he was about to destroy every single ship in the sky due to all the gun fire, until he scanned the Pillar of Autumn and was misdiagnosing Chief as a Forerunner for some odd reason.
versed helm
The fact that the Flood got out on 05 shows that it was a risk. That risk would not have been worth taking if there were not more Flood out in the galaxy who posed a risk. For those Flood out in the galaxy to have survived, they would need to demonstrate the longevity to survive indefinitely.
Literally my only point.
You said the Flood wouldn't be able to hibernate for 100,000 years.
I think you're provably wrong.
That's all I was trying to say.
stable schooner
His Tentacles can stretch past the walls definitely reinforced by the developer commentary but I doubt that would sustain such a large infection constantly being attacked by Sentinels if they needed Biomass or hosts to survive.
warm ridge
The Flood aren't capable of hibernating for 100,000 years without biomass, yes. This is proven logic judging from the fact that any Flood we do encounter is around Forerunner objects due to breaking out of containment.
warm ridge
A lot of Forerunner structures that we don't know about also had Flood containment area's, you know that right? It wasn't just exclusive to the Halo rings.
versed helm
Plus, the Spartan Field Manual makes direct reference to SIVS engaging new Flood threats postwar.
Unless those Flood threats were also all on a Halo ring, they must have been separate outbreaks.
warm ridge
Yes, around Forerunner containment area's
versed helm
But those Forerunner containment areas have no reason to exist if there was no further Flood threat outside the Flood in the containment area.
It's a circular logical fallacy.
You don't need to the cure the Flood if the Flood are all gone.
warm ridge
There was no further Flood threat outside those containment area's, where said Flood were able to break out and roam the area, yes.
versed helm
The entirety of the Flood outbreaks in the 26th century are therefore on the conscience of the Forerunners.
Through incompetent long-term decision making, they almost brought galactic civilization to an end.
The Librarian is, through incompetence, more of a threat to humanity than the Didact was.
warm ridge
Again, the Forerunners decided to keep the Flood in containment in order to study them, find a cure, whatever it was. They did this because they thought the Ancient humans once found a cure, but in reality they didn't at all and only passed the Flood's responsibility of the mantle test.
You do realize the Flood = One of the many forms of the precursors, right?
versed helm
Now you're getting into deep theoretical territory.
warm ridge
I literally just told you how it works and honestly have no idea what your going on about.
versed helm
Conventional understanding dictates that the Flood and the Primordial were all that remained of the Precursors.
warm ridge
versed helm
There could be other "waves" of testing but...
Actually, y'know what?
Why am I even bothering.
versed helm
I uh, I'm a Halopedia contributor my dude.
I've done work on several pages relating to UNSC gear.
I know my stuff.
You're being patronizing and it's only because you're treating your own assumptions as fact, failing to demonstrate any form of empathy, and not really making an attempt to work within a context here.
warm ridge
Based off what your saying right now, it seems like you really don't tbh.
versed helm
I keep making statements which you keep randomly connecting with random elements of what you're talking about.
It's immensely frustrating and I think if you were to do some introspection you'd probably realise I'm right.
Not that I don't get heated myself, but this is next level.
warm ridge
All you've made are questions, that I answered, which you then questioned even more and I answered them again lol.
versed helm
Take care, now.
warm ridge
I've already done all the studying of Halo's lore that I need, it doesn't seem like you know much of it especially regarding your constantly changing topic of each question. Like, you're all over the place dude.
wispy bough
warm ridge
^
versed helm
On the face of it, I still don't think it's entirely inconceivable that the Flood might have the ability to hibernate for exceptionally long periods of time.
After all, they are noted to be a threat that is extraordinarily adaptable and tenacious.
But at minimum it's fairly obvious that there's some Flood threat still in play in the Halo universe that is not contained within a Halo ring, or at an accounted-for location.
Which is the obvious logical basis for the Librarian's decisions.
warm ridge
"As a result of the firing of the seven Halo installations, the surviving Flood were successfully contained and eventually died out. The only surviving specimens were contained in state-of-the-art, high-security Forerunner research facilities, such as the Halo installations, certain Shield Worlds, and the Threshold gas mine."
They could've also survived being frozen outside of the galaxy, outside of the Rings range. As far as we know, the Flood = one of the many forms of the Precursors.
Of course, without being frozen, or in some sort of stasis chambers, the hibernation efforts of the Flood wouldn't of lasted, and they did indeed die out without consuming more available biomass.
versed helm
Well, no disagreement there.
versed helm
But it's kinda debatable there to me whether or not a hypothetical return of the Flood from outside the galaxy is justification for the lives taken during the 04 or 05 outbreaks.
Outbreaks which were 100% preventable by simply not keeping any more Flood around. But we've been over this territory.
There hasn't yet - I don't think - been a dead certain cap put on Flood longevity. And the truth is, it just makes sense to me that a dis-unified, uncoordinated group of Flood fresh off the firing of the Halo array who manage to wait out and survive the solvent decontamination would do something to preserve themselves, and become functionally a kind of galactic landmine for future races to hit.
I mean, the Flood were all over the place - it's unlikely to me that they could've all been wiped out by the solvent.
And whatever way you spin it, 05 is a clear demonstration of Flood longevity. Alongside Etran Harbourage, and potentially other as-yet unaddressed outbreaks that Spartan IVs have been dealing with.
And, to be clear, there is no solid indication that the outbreak on Etran Harbourage was brought on by specimens in stasis.
So if even the risk of a future race encountering one of these galactic flood "landmines" exists, the notion of getting an early introduction to the Flood out of the way on one of the rings is comparatively reasonable, even next to "oh, the Flood might come back from outside the galaxy", and certainly next to "we need to cure this because we just have to".
Though cure is a grossly inaccurate turn of phrase in the context of the Flood.
You can't cure something that's already had the life twisted out of it. A cure for the Flood is a way of selectively destroying or disabling the FSC, or taking out its non-linear over-arching intelligence.
warm ridge
The Librarian and the rest of the Life workers knew the risk. They decided to keep them in stasis chambers for whoever the future species to find them would study them, and the monitors around each ring would've helped them out as well. The Librarian was playing a huge gamble on the Humans to do just this for example. 343 Guilty Spark even allows the Humans to land in Installation 04 and for him to confirm the presence and pitch of there geas before allowing full access. Whatever remote transmission he was sending obviously never got sent to the Pillar of Autumn though, or it was just never heard.
As far as we know, there is no confirmed role as to how long the Flood can survive in hibernation without being frozen, or in stasis chambers. We can immediately assume it's far less then 100,000 years though, judging from the fact that no Flood has been seen outside of the few out breaks of each containment chamber on Forerunner facilities.
05 is a clear demonstration of the Flood surviving off a constant supply of fresh biomass being created by whatever systems were on the ring. Not "flood longevity/hibernation".
The out break that happened on Etran Harbourage is unknown as to how it happened, but it can be assumed it was also the cause of containment stasis chambers being breached (likely by the Covenant). It was also a relatively recent infestation if judging from the fact that not even a Gravemind was fully formed, only a Proto-Gravemind that duplicated the Anders signal. Likely attempting to take control of any ships in order to get off the planet (shield world).
versed helm
Well, I can't really say anything other than "I disagree". The truth is, if we weren't well entrenched in speculative territory, I wouldn't have brought this point up.
But surely you see how much of what you're saying is based on assumption just as much as what I'm saying.
You're making assumptions about the outbreak on Etran harbourage which, while circumstantially justified, do not have any direct evidence to back them.
warm ridge
None of what I said is based off assumption other then how the out break of Flood happened on Etran Harbourage (the shield world seen in HW1). Practically everything else is confirmed Halo lore based off what has been said.
versed helm
Same for 05. Yes, Gravemind got Chief. But there are circumstances in which Gravemind could've done so without having had the capability to strategically siphon off Installation 05 wildlife for thousands of years.
I mean, in this circumstance you might have waited for me to type my follow-up xD
We're obviously at an impasse, though.
warm ridge
I'm just replying to things the more I see them, if you're wanting to make a direct reply to everything just make it in one reply instead of multiple lol.
versed helm
Perhaps the best course of action is to let it go and see if anything either of us see as decisive crops up in the lore down the track, huh?
There's plenty of other things to discuss.
warm ridge
Well this is the Halo lore and universe channel 😛
versed helm
Well, we can keep making the same points in this discussion at one another over-and-over, if you want.
Or we could find something else to discuss in this extremely broad and fascinating fictional universe 🤷
copper wigeon
What a rollercoaster
warm ridge
definitely.
last anchor
Bruh stepped in Looter's tripwires.
Lore claymores everywhere
spiral jewel
It presumably won't happen for quite some time, but lore Wise, is even it possible for Alice, Jerome and Douglas (Red Team) to reunite with John , Fred, Linda and Kelly (Blue Team) sometime after the events of Infinite?
last anchor
Probably
spiral jewel
Perhaps in HW3 or H7 but I feel like it's a wait and see type situation
fair hazel
I was sleeping I think
When the argument happened
I couldn’t interject so I missed it
gilded mason
Okay.
worldly nimbus
@versed helm here too, apparently
versed helm
Thank you
worldly nimbus
No problem. The nerve of these people...
stable schooner
You know after Infinite I wonder where the series can really go with lore. I mean I wonder if it means we will go back to More Covenant war era stories or will their be a even bigger threat then a Foreunner.
copper wigeon
Hope they flesh out more stuff before the Human-Covenant war
Like the insurrection
carmine sleet
I hope they give us a new threat, unrelated to the Covenant or Forerunners
gilded mason
Maybe some smaller-scale stories in the mean-time. Perhaps with non-human protagonists...?
I am, of course, talking about the glorious Yonhet.
carmine sleet
What about a game focused on Stolt?
gilded mason
That'd be neat.
copper wigeon
Spinoff game with a grunt protagonist
carmine sleet
That's what a Stolt focused game would be
I'd say he's the best grunt but YapYap exists
stable schooner
That’s pretty funny but wouldn’t the enemies just be more Covenant remnants
gilded mason
Spy-thriller with Ayit 'Sevi, too.
carmine sleet
And we're contractually obligated to say YapYap is the best
carmine sleet
Goblins are canon, they show up in Bad Blood
gilded mason
They may not extensively know the physics of it, but that doesn't preclude them from making modifications. After all, the base needler itself was made before fully understanding it.
obsidian thistle
There is also the Banished version which in my opinion is the superior model. It has 2 hands.
stoic hamlet
We in the Banished call that model “two hands Hanz”.
last anchor
And it can sprint
agile lotus
We’re not Orks.
drowsy bluff
Did anyone notice even dead Sessa reffume acomplish his goal?, maybe he was a lit bit more arbiter than Vadame
versed helm
🤔 🤔 🤔
drowsy bluff
Sooo
warm ridge
@versed helm No human understands it, but Grunts, Elites, etc (whoever makes the weapons) has a far better understanding of how the weapons work.
The Covenant remnants (the few groups that we know about) isn't exactly keen on giving up information as to how there weapons do work to the UNSC after all.
trail flame
Needlers are black magic but plasma weapons don't seem so complicated
Noble gas + extremely high voltage = plasma gun
Though how exactly they work is still weird
safe siren
I think that even the Covenant didn't have that much of knowledge about their own weapons, the Prophets were the only one with the capabilities to modify them, right?
carmine sleet
The Prophets weren't the only ones but during the time of the Covenant, you would need the blessing of a Prophet to modify weapons
They were sometimes used for that but the Engineers served that role mainly
safe siren
Oh right, the heresy in Cole Protocol was for the modification without their blessing, my bad.
strong sage
Is it possible that for Mac rounds fires high velocity plasma rounds rather than their usual rounds?
trail flame
I don't see a magnetic cannon firing plasma
Maybe a hollowed out round filled with plasma inside
Who knows
carmine sleet
Plasma rounds aren't really "rounds", they're super-heated gas shaped by magnetic fields, can't really fire that from stuff like a MAC cannon
warm ridge
@safe siren Elites created there own weapons, Prophets studied Forerunner artifacts and passed any advantages down to the Elites and so on. Anything not useful just got stored away or left behind.
@carmine sleet Uh..You didn't need the blessing of a Prophet to modify weapons. Anyone could do it, it's just modifying weapons was typically looked down upon unless it specifically meant a purpose for just that 1 single person to use, or the modification matched said person's personality better.
" Occasionally, influential clients and heroes of the Covenant—who were considered to be above Ministry sanction—were able to commission Sangheili artisan-armorers to produce custom variants of the plasma rifle to suit their needs."
copper wigeon
Makes sense
warm ridge
basically we don't really know a whole lot about Covenant weapons or how the Covenant really even used them. Much less reloaded them or anything else at all.
Information regarding how they're made is largely unknown, we just know there made in manufacturing plants somewhere
https://www.halopedia.org/Iruiru_Armory
https://www.halopedia.org/Sacred_Promissory
https://www.halopedia.org/Lodam_Armory
With the fall of the Covenant, pretty much anyone is allowed to create modifications of all there weapons.
copper wigeon
Without the prophets to police them
safe siren
I was convinced that they were provided only by the prophets.
Eh, TIL.
stable schooner
Brute Plasma Rifles are still Schism and beyond though.
trail flame
Reloading can't be too complicated, just charge the batteries right?
Maybe fill them up with whatever gas they use, if they require a special gas
young mortar
I'm wondering, does chief have pockets if not how does he carry all his stuff
carmine sleet
And if that storage isn't enough, they can always add pouches onto their armour, like how we can in Reach for the customisation
fair hazel
Halo CE
carmine sleet
That's also a great example
gilded mason
Another reason why Mark V is best.
carmine sleet
Great in terms of looks for sure. I will always love the Mark V Delta helmet
Functionality-wise, not so much since the features of later Mjolnir suits are just much better
gilded mason
Yeah, it's the visual design that I'm in love with.
feral perch
Ahem, Halo Wars Mark IV is the prettiest
gilded mason
u lie
feral perch
this is fact not opinion
carmine sleet
It's why I remade the Mark V as a personal project earlier this year
gilded mason
Oh?
carmine sleet
I'll stick it in #471727324895641651
gilded mason
Kay
feral perch
Frank O’Connor will back me up on this
carmine sleet
Anyway, Mark IV, sure it is cool but it's not Mark V Delta cool
feral perch
Mark V from Reach is superior
vivid dust
As I started with Halo 2, I'm going with Mark VI
warm ridge
Mark IV is probably the most realistic and functionality type of helmet we might be close to achieving in the near future
Anything beyond that probably not.
versed helm
Reach Mk V is far from the best imo
Far removed from its established sleekness
H3 did Mk V the best
feral perch
I felt like Halo 3 Mark V had too many details and made it look just slightly clunky, if not fat. Reach streamlined everything into a simplistic, effective design.
Maybe I just think that because I associate Halo 3 Mark V with Caboose more so than other variants.
stable schooner
Mark IV is hot, I’m a sucker for the Mark V/Vi combo look it’s got going on.
warm ridge
@versed helm
@feral perch
Halo 4 Mark V:
http://prntscr.com/p06ay6
Halo 3 Mark V:
http://prntscr.com/p069kc
Halo Reach Mark V:
http://prntscr.com/p06a5r
Honestly, I think I prefer the Halo 3/4 design of Mark V over Reach's any day in my opinion.
Reach's design of Mark V just looks..weird to me. Like something's off.
feral perch
I see what you’re saying. Personally, I think the visor lines on Halo 3’s Mark V clash with the original design philosophy, which is my biggest gripe with it. The chin is also a little bit too prominent. Halo 4’s feels too stylized.
warm ridge
btw if you haven't noticed the over-all design of H4's Mark V helmet took direct inspiration from H3's lol
feral perch
Reach gets the proportions of the front down nicely, and removes the open space between the two awning/visor rims of previous models. There is something I don’t like about it, though. The back of the head is a little bit too curved. It should be more angular and blocky.
warm ridge
If you want I can make them all the same color to.
Also these were all taken on my 360 via a capture card. Elgato HD 60 Pro at 1080p
warm ridge
out of all the Halo's on the 360, H4 is the only one where I actually like the black color. Black in H3 felt more like dark gray rather then actual black, and HR's black just felt more gray and just, dull looking.
feral perch
Halo CE is the only Halo game to have straight up black as a selectable color.
warm ridge
It's also the only Halo game to have a pure white color lol.
feral perch
Pepper in Halo 5 is close but not quite as dark as CE
I thought Halo 2 had pure white
warm ridge
don't have H2 except on MCC so I can't really say, but I can show you OG H1 on my 360 lol
feral perch
Hm
cloud stone
Im pretty sure it had white
I remember Washington being white in H2 Red vs Blue
Also you could get pure black in H3...in certain custom games. Dont know why it wasnt a selectable option
warm ridge
I might be getting H2 and H1 white confused though Idk. In-game HCE's white is extremely white, but in menu's it just looks dull.
young mortar
Ello Ello ello
balmy turtle
Has there been Halo anime yet? I'd love to see what the Japanese can do with the franchise.
gilded mason
Halo Legends.
balmy turtle
Thanks
stable schooner
Yeah Halo Legends had Japanese studios working on it so it’s 100% a Anime.
last anchor
Didnt they have one of the Gundam studios doing stuff
stable schooner
I know Pluton was ready to shoot a Kamehameha
last anchor
Well Odd One Out is just OBVIOUS
IMO they should do it again, but this time get the JoJo's Bizzare Adventure people to make a short
I am entirely down for "rapid fist punching Spartans"
unique rune
Sunrise didn't work on Legends IIRC
but one of the studios made of staff that were originally Sunrise did
last anchor
I was gonna say if Prototype is anything but a Gundam omage
unique rune
yeah so
Bones was responsible for The Prototype
and it was founded by former Sunrise staff
fair hazel
you said pluton and i thought you meant bonnie ross
last anchor
Oh yeah, thats her Twitter tag isnt it? Or something related to her.
No, we're talking about DBZ Brute
fair hazel
yep her twitter
stable schooner
Can the Legendary Master Chief, The Great Saiyaman And the Daughter Of the Earths Savior Hercule along with some Caveman defeat this Gorilla monstrosity of the Prophets? Next Time on Halo Ball Z! Odd One Out summarized.
stable schooner
And The Cavemen didn’t actually fight But you gotta get hyped for the next Episode.
Also I’m not very informed about Noble why was Jorge a Older Spartan 2 placed under the command of Spartan 3 Carter in Noble?
last anchor
Too expensive, too complicated to maintain most likely.
More effeicent material usage was out there.
Probably too expensive to keep replacing after each battle most likely
last anchor
Same deal most likely. Though we do see one in Spartan Assault
feral perch
Too bad they can’t get something like Jack from Gears of War. He could cloak to shield himself from danger.
feral perch
smart AIs are a liability now though :/
last anchor
Some are, some arent
Depends on how close to rampancy they are
Ex; Rolands still loyal cause hes less than two years old
feral perch
It would appear.
last anchor
I mean, can you really blame them though?
If you were offered a chance at immortality...
feral perch
At the obvious cost of countless lives? I might give it a second thought
I mean, Sloan was a sketchy guy but he pretty much sold out his people to slaughter
I am sad that BB is most likely dead by Infinite, barring some miracle
last anchor
You didnt read Rosbeck's world did you?
stoic hamlet
grumble grumble itconflictswiththepasthumanAIrelationships grumble grumble
feral perch
Interesting idea
warm ridge
@versed helm tl;dr
Mjolnir can be equipped with just about anything imaginable. Most Mjolnir helmets are already fully compatible with using drones even do right on the Spartan's UI.
@last anchor Drones aren't to expensive or to complicated to maintain at all. They can be seen even being used by security forces and other area's do.
The problem is, we just haven't seen a whole lot of uses with it yet.
Sword arms though, I can kinda agree with you. It'd be a waste unless it was purely a stealth mission when a gun is just as effective.
@feral perch Sloan actually only left on one condition that all his people could make it to evacuation ships before Cortana started activating the Guardian.
Turns out not "everyone" could make it, but I guess that was a risk Sloan was willing to take in order to defeat rampancy.
last anchor
I meant in terms of MJLONIR equipment. The whole suit costs as much as a battleship. Which would you rather have more of; the battleship, or MJLONIR?
obsidian thistle
I'd rather have a ship
versed helm
MJLONIR.
stoic hamlet
Ship
feral perch
It depends on who’s going to wear the MJOLNIR
feral perch
If it’s a Linda or John, I’d pick the MJOLNIR. If it’s a Solomon or Daisy? I’d pick the ship
stoic hamlet
ODST Buck or H5G Buck?
cerulean sand
Buck would just prefer a shotgun let's face it
stoic hamlet
Good choice
pure pagoda
He’s funnier in ODST.
stoic hamlet
He’s also not massively OOC
pure pagoda
laff
last anchor
They had enough suits for the most part though especially at the start of the war.
Also its possible the data was burned to prevent it falling into Covenant hands, like the Prototype on Algolis
cerulean sand
In actual honesty if ODST Buck had to choose ship or MJOLNIR he'd probably choose MJOLNIR so he could still work with his team which he does but poor Mickey
stoic hamlet
ODST Buck would choose ship
I don’t mean because he’s an ODST, btw. He’s not the one to prioritize personal feelings over the greater good.
cerulean sand
That's true, Buck in an alt universe driving a ship now that's a concept I'd like to see
last anchor
(sarcastic clapping) subtle
fair hazel
The cost of mjolnir goes down
Isn’t it as costly as a dropsjip now?
According to one of the helmets description.
Air assault@maybe
Body description: AIR ASSAULT spin-offs were considered for adoption by unaugmented Delta-Six operators, but each suit costs as much as a dropship
versed helm
I think it's only specific variants
fair hazel
The cost is definitely lower.
last anchor
That was the point of GEN 2 yes. But we're talking about the Collateral Damage upgrades
stoic hamlet
For reference, Air Assault didn’t start out as a MJOLNIR suit, it was Army Airborne first. (Supposed to be exclusive to them)