#lore-and-universe | Halo | Page 220

rigid ferry Aug 12, 2019, 8:01 PM

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So has there ever been a grunt to escape slipspace?

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Because that'd be a amazing story i think

humble yacht Aug 12, 2019, 8:02 PM

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Slipspace radiation would kill them, even if they could survive in a vacuum.

rigid ferry Aug 12, 2019, 8:03 PM

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They can, it's just that they need a mask.

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Just a mask

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i mean balaho was a hellscape

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so theres like a tiny chance a grunt survived it

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and the story would just be about how he got there and what it's like

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and then he just dies

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kek

stable schooner Aug 13, 2019, 1:29 AM

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Waiting for that Book on Miranda’s and the UNSCs actions during Halo 2 in the Quarantine Zone.

gilded mason Aug 13, 2019, 1:47 AM

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"Okay, Ensign Jimmy, after my team heads down to secure the Index, make sure to take the ship somewhere secure and be vigilant of any attacks."
Unbeknownst to Miranda, Jimmy had airpods in the whole time

stable schooner Aug 13, 2019, 1:55 AM

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Also after watching that whole commentary it sounds like Arbiter and Chief were gonna be betrayed together

last anchor Aug 13, 2019, 2:27 AM

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Would make sense

remote spruce Aug 13, 2019, 2:55 AM

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dang 343i strapping a bomb to chief in halo 4

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:56 AM

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Chief mag clamped the bomb to himself

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Spartans doing stuff with nukes is kinda a trope in the Haloverse

quaint drum Aug 13, 2019, 3:37 AM

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i still don’t understand something about halo 4

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what was that cortana did with her multiplying or something?

gilded mason Aug 13, 2019, 3:38 AM

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Fragmenting herself.

agile lotus Aug 13, 2019, 4:30 AM

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Literally broke herself into pieces.

unique rune Aug 13, 2019, 5:54 AM

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cut my life into pieces
this is my last resort

brisk current Aug 13, 2019, 1:42 PM

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We are all asking the wrong questions you need to ask, why is yapyap the destroyer not canon

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Ill make a religious server if he is put in canon

unique rune Aug 13, 2019, 1:45 PM

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I mean.
He is canon.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 1:45 PM

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Kinda

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He's kinda canon

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Don't get any funny ideas

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Though if you ask me, Halo's at its worst when it's playing for cheap laughs with grunt "humour" and silly semi-canon gags.

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Hurts the tone. Doesn't feel like Halo.

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There's a certain threshold of stupidity that a fictional universe should stay away from if it doesn't want to render itself stale, and Halo straddles that line dangerously. In my opinion, at least.

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If it gets too stupid, when you start doing things like making big high-budget TV shows, it can get really hard for a mainstream audience to take it seriously.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 1:53 PM

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Funny grunts have been a part of halo since CE

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 1:54 PM

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Hey, I ain't begrudging a little bit of grunty goodness.

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But when that grunty goodness occupies an entire leader slot in Halo Wars 2, it's less grunty goodness and more... grunty grating.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 1:55 PM

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Lucky for you then that HW2 multiplayer isn’t canon

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 1:56 PM

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I still like multiplayer to be thematically linked with the universe - I'm not discussing canon here so much as tone.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 1:56 PM

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Tone of mp has never been that serious

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It’s always been playful

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 1:57 PM

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It's evoked familiar emotions, and RTS is a somewhat different playing field.

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The nature of RTS gameplay will intrinsically mean it's tied in with the universe in a much more tangible way.

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Every unit brings a certain personality with it that, I feel, should be grounded for the sake of the experience.

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Otherwise it gets confused and, as I said, stale.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 1:58 PM

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I think units being funny in RTS doesn’t detract from the overall narrative tone

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Warcraft 3 is my fave rts

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You got so many funny units there

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 1:59 PM

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What, like goblin mercenaries?

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 1:59 PM

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Yet the narrative is still about betrayal, redemption, saving the world, etc

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 1:59 PM

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You're still kinda tying in my discussion of tone with canon and narrative points.

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I'll just make it super clear - over the last few weeks I've undergone a beautiful metamorphosis

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I've gone from being canon gestapo to, like, a canon hippie

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I go with the flow, and every interpretation is valid

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:00 PM

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So if tone is all that concerns you with this then just don’t use that hero or unit

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:00 PM

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But I do think there's a certain, nebulous core of emotionality that binds the franchise together like glue

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I don't mean to be condescending

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But that's a bit of an amateur argument, don't you think?

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Kinda

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Reeks of pointless contrarianism

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Anyway, at the end of the day my point is that if you normalize too much goofy stuff it starts to twist that nebulous Halo goodness into something it's not meant to be

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It's honestly a similar argument in my mind to the art style debate

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:02 PM

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No more pointless than saying such things shouldn’t exist simply because you don’t like them

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What about the people who do love grunt humor?

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:03 PM

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I'd generally suggest that it wasn't the thing that drew them to Halo in the first place

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And they're the sort of people who're probably accepting of anything and just happy to be part of the community 🤷

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Good lads

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:03 PM

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Halo’s tone has always had levity sprinkled in throuought

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It’s not always been Doom and gloom

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That would get tiring

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:04 PM

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I'm not denying that in the slightest, Chimera - I think you may be sort of adding more gravitas and scope to what I'm saying in your head.

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What I'm saying is that while every fictional property is multi-faceted and caters to a wide range of emotional experiences

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And that levity has certainly always been a part of Halo

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:05 PM

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It sounds like you’re saying that there is too much grunt humor and levity in halo

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:05 PM

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As Halo seeks to expand the base of people that follow the universe, it should be careful about how it dilutes the central tone

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Lest it loses the appeal it has

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I'm not saying it's already gone over that boundary

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:05 PM

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I don’t think it’s even come close to that

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:06 PM

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Well, great for you, fellow haver of opinions.

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We can agree to disagree.

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But YapYap is... I mean, there's so much you could do with a Halo RTS.

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It just seems wasteful, frivolous, and poorly considered.

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But nothing's perfect.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:07 PM

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So what would you have done with yap yap?

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Make him super grim and serious?

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:08 PM

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Probably like... ground him a little more? Channel some Stolt vibes?

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:08 PM

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When have grunts ever been all that grounded?

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Especially when you have other inherently more grounded people surrounding them

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:09 PM

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Well, what do you mean by grounded?

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I mean, like.

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More a concrete part of the universe.

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More fun and tonally involved and unique.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:09 PM

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I mean a leader who takes war seriously and realisitcally

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Like shipmaster

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:10 PM

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Well I mean

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If you don't see grunts as ever having been "grounded"

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You're not the type of person who I'd ordinarily bother having a lore discussion with because you've clearly not read any Halo book or fought them in-game

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:10 PM

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Grunts have always been there for comedic effect

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:10 PM

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But you're not that kind of person

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You're just being contrarian

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:11 PM

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The whole premise of them being cowardly in battle after losing their leader is to evoke a laugh and feelings of superiority

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:12 PM

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Well the latter I can relate to, but I'm not in hysterics every time I see them run away.

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Otherwise the mission 343 Guilty Spark would lack a bit of its effect

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Wouldn't you say?

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:12 PM

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And I’m not being contrary for the hell of it. I’m questioning why halo is in danger of going down some unpleasant road

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I’m not saying grunts have to be hysterical

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:12 PM

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Once again, you're drastically overstating the gravitas of my point.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:13 PM

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But then I don’t consider yap yap hysterical

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:13 PM

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I'm not saying YapYap will be the downfall of Halo

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He's just not, in my opinion, optimal

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Or what I expect from Halo

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:14 PM

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I find playing up the ridiculousness of grunts was a natural evolution of their role in the games

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The grunt mech was a fun addition

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:14 PM

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Yeah, the goblin's pretty cool.

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Brute riders, on the other hand.

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Methane wagons.

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Big "ehhhhhh"

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:15 PM

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Grunts getting arrogant and loud when in positions of power is very in line with their origins as part of the universe

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:15 PM

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Uh-huh.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:15 PM

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I suppose a way to subvert expectations while still playing on that would be to make a grunt character who is super serious as a parody

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Like the Batman of grunts

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:16 PM

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Whatever dude, great talk.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:16 PM

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But only as a parody; if it wasn’t satirical it wouldn’t work

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:18 PM

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I think you've just been dismissed

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:18 PM

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One of the most celebrated moments of halo is CE’s legendary ending when Johnson and the Elite hug. Obviously non canon but it was a moment that everyone loves

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You can call it a cheap laugh but it’s been a part of the series from the get go

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It didn’t take away from the rest of the tone of the franchise

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:19 PM

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Alright, one more time because I'm terrible at letting things go.

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I absolutely agree with all that

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But you can take these things too far

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:19 PM

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You’re the one who said halo is worse off for having these moments

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:19 PM

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Yeah, I absolutely said that.

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100%

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My words, precisely.

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:20 PM

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I think he means it's getting worse when there are too much of those moments

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No that they should'nt be there

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Yeah but is it really too much currently?

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:20 PM

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No

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Imo, no

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Is it even in danger of being too much?

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Just being the middleman here lol

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:21 PM

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Are we so close to the line where this should even be a worry?

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:21 PM

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I would say Yapyap sets a precedent I find a little troubling.

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It's just creatively stale and really un-funny.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:22 PM

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Ok, you don’t like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s making halo worse

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Can’t you just say “I don’t like it” without trying to make your argument sound altruistic for the greater sake of halo as a whole?

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:23 PM

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Well, Halo's goodness and badness is measured by the broad strokes of popular opinion.

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Objectivity born of subjectivity and all that.

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If I hold this opinion, and I consider this opinion to be well thought-out and reasonable, it's likely that others feel the same way.

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Given what was being discussed at the time, I felt it apt to bring it up

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:24 PM

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I get not liking aspects of the franchise. I’m right there with you

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But I just find it annoying when people try to promote their personal likes/dislikes as something the entire franchise should follow

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:26 PM

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I hate to continue to find ways to disagree with you here, and prove myself to be the contrarian

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:26 PM

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Isn't it normal that people want their favorite franchise to evolve in a way which seems the best to them ?

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:26 PM

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I think people can be better about how the word things

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:27 PM

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But uh

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C'mon man

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Discussing stuff is what we do

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:27 PM

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“I don’t like this about halo” is better than “halo sucks because of this”

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:27 PM

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Ah yep, I agree

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:27 PM

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I say a thing, you hold me accountable for that thing and see if it's reasonable

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Or we talk about bits of lore

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:27 PM

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The difference between being critic and being toxic

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:28 PM

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Not saying anyone is toxic here

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:28 PM

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Neither did I lol

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:28 PM

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I mean, I literally cannot think of a clearer definition of the former than what I just expressed

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But I do empathize

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:28 PM

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I just think you both have opposed opinion and that you are a bit overinterpreting each other 😉

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:29 PM

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If you had more “I think’s” or “I feel’s” in your statements then I probably would have just been like “mhmm, i see”

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Ay, we're passionate

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I once had an illuminating discussion with a man in the YouTube comments

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He was saying something outspoken with which I disagreed

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And I said to him

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:29 PM

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It was when you said halo was at its worst with cheap laughs that I was like “who are you to decide?”

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:29 PM

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"Don't state your opinions as fact"

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And he replied to me and said

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"Is it not self-evident that the things I say are my opinion?"

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:30 PM

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It really isn’t

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:30 PM

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Well I'm a little disturbed to find that such a formative moment in how I look at discourse was potentially faulty

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:30 PM

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There are many who promote their opinions as fact either out of ignorance or because they try to get a rise out of people

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:30 PM

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My approach would be, everything's an opinion until proven to be factual

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:31 PM

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That’s good to hear

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:31 PM

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Not, everything's factual unless specified as an opinion

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:31 PM

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Can’t be said for everyone though

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:31 PM

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Well that's a good point

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I mean, I didn't realize that everything everyone says is their opinion until it was pointed out to me

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:32 PM

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I find that there are enough people on the internet who actually think like that that it comes up often enough to be mentioned

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:33 PM

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My biggest gripe with the latter sort of phrasing you gave as an example would be the sort of un-empathetic and inconsiderate wording, as well as the obviously unfounded reaching of conclusions.

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:33 PM

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Look in flat earther's direction

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:33 PM

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Its something us wiki folks have to stamp down a lot. People try hard to get their opinions on the wiki, yet have no source to back it up. Its kinda heartbreaking at times cause most times they just wanna help out.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:33 PM

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Good for you for recognizing your opinions are just opinions though

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I mean, I think that kind phrasing is simply accurate

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:34 PM

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Well there's never any reason to try and be hurtful

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:34 PM

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While the other kind of phrasing is drawing conclusions and generalizations that just aren’t true

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I mean, if we are all hear expressing our opinions, then makin them sound more like opinions shouldn’t hurt their validity

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Because no opinion is more valid than another

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But if you make your opinion sound more than just that, then it changes things

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:36 PM

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Well now you say it that way, being careful to specify that an opinion is an opinion would be the considerate thing to do

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:37 PM

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So that’s why I’m like, it’s one thing to say that you think grunt humor is becoming too prevalent in halo for your tastes. It’s another thing to suggest that grunt humor elevation is ruining halo’s overall tone

vivid dust Aug 13, 2019, 2:37 PM

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I mean, is YapYap even canon

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:38 PM

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Well my personal concern is that if we go all-in on grunt funny hijinks, when the general public is exposed to the Halo TV show or the next big game they'll wonder where YapYap is

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And suddenly a terrible, terrible precedent will have been set

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:38 PM

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I don’t think that’s any more a risk than a newcomer to halo asking where Johnson is

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Well, assuming they enter the timeline after his death

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And question his presence in Hw2

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:39 PM

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+1

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:39 PM

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“Hey he’s in this game and it’s after his death, why isn’t he in other things?!”

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:39 PM

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I'm also personally a little bitter about them resorting to Johnson and Ripa in HW2

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:39 PM

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At that point said newcomer will just need a minor correction

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:40 PM

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I feel like they could've done something more interesting there

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:40 PM

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It fits with HW2 mp being not canon

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:40 PM

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Like don't get me wrong, Johnson will forever be one of Halo's steadfast pillars

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But I kinda want to know more about the SoF's crew and the Banished

hardy goblet Aug 13, 2019, 2:40 PM

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They just release themed / known characters which will be enjoyable to play

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Instead of creating flavorless champions which come out of nowhere

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:41 PM

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Maybe your overall gripe is with hw2 mp being non canon like the mp in the FPS titles?

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:41 PM

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Well it depends. Not every piece of media will go down on Grunt humor and so on.

Some may decide to focus on the Stolt, and "The Fall of Reach" depiction. It really depends on the scenario. 343i has been alright with showing both sides here and there. (Halo Wars 2 actually hints at both in the Phoenix logs and minor dialogue)

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:41 PM

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I mean, if I'm really gonna let loose

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My biggest gripe with Halo Wars is that it's not like Wargame but with orbital stuff xD

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:42 PM

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I think we’ve turned a corner

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:42 PM

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But failing that, I'd like it to have a bit more identity

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:42 PM

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This is like a therapy session

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:43 PM

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Well its not the end of the world HW2 MP not being canon. I mean its exactly like how Gameplay isnt canon.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:43 PM

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But imagine if it was

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:43 PM

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I dont need to imagine. ;)

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Less stressful tbh.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:44 PM

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Or Company of Heroes

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:44 PM

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Hw2 leaders have enough of a mix of new characters that don’t break canon that I’m fine with some fan service showing up

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:44 PM

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Company of Heroes but Halo

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Would be literal gaming perfection

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:44 PM

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A little fan service is ok now and then

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Too much can be bad, yes

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And Johnson being in Hw2 mp is 100% only fanservice

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Ripa too

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:45 PM

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That said the canon comes from Phoenix Logs in HW2 MP. While sure there is some oddities. (Grim clarified that stuff) Most stuff is safe.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:46 PM

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So yes, they could have gone with more entirely new leader units like kisano, but i don’t think it’s the end of the world that they didn’t

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I think their hearts were in the right place

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:47 PM

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Kinsano is awesome

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Tho

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:47 PM

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I’m sure there were a lot of fans who really appreciated Johnson’s appearance

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:48 PM

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And hey doesnt anyone remember Bungie doing the same thing in ODST with Johnson in Firefight. That was clearly fan service.

Oh and Reachs firefight having well a lotta characters also

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:48 PM

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Why couldn't we get Vaughan as a leader

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:48 PM

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lol

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Johnson in ODST FF was my jam

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That commercial

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:49 PM

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~~The difference between Johnson in ODST and in HW2 for me is that Johnson in firefight was genuinely sick and the trailer was boss~~

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Anyway, I've said my bit

vivid dust Aug 13, 2019, 2:49 PM

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Also David Scully didn’t reprise his role for HW2

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:49 PM

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RT’s reimagining of that trailer was also really good

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:49 PM

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Well I do admit I'd love to be able to use Sunray in HW2 MP again (outside the Yappening)

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:50 PM

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If more stupid YapYap stuff or pizza skin stuff invades Halo Infinite in increasing quantities

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Don't say I didn't warn you

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That is, if you happen to also tire of it

vivid dust Aug 13, 2019, 2:50 PM

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The pizza skin is canon right?

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:51 PM

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It's... a metamaterial coating

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:51 PM

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Tbh I dont really mind it. (And yes its canon in Wargames sims atm)

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:51 PM

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to help with vacuum

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:51 PM

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If flossing shows up in halo then I’ll join your camp, loot

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:51 PM

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And stuff

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Well that's good to know, Chimera.

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:51 PM

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Wargames sims are however the big barrier from being used on the field xD

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Its kinda funny.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:52 PM

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In my book, cool trumps funny any day

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Funny is low effort

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Unless it's actually funny

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:53 PM

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I think too much cool gets stale

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:53 PM

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Never

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:53 PM

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It’s trying too hard after a certain point

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Besides, cool and funny aren’t mutually exclusive

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:54 PM

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Well, I was saying for when they are.

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If it's a choice between "durrrrr, pizzza" and some kind of actual camo or aesthetic variant

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I'll go for the latter every time

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:55 PM

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I mean, in a crappy world where you can’t be funny and cool at the same time, and one must be chosen over the other for all time

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I’d probably choose funny

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:55 PM

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Well that's it then

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I'm going back to StarCraft

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:55 PM

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At least it would be fun

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A 100% cool reality would be like everyone is Horatio from CSI Miami

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:56 PM

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It's just a reality where everyone takes themselves seriously and has some level of dignity

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:57 PM

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Oh yeah, that would get on my nerves after awhile

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:57 PM

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I mean, Spartans are the first line of defence for humanity against all kinds of terrible stuff

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They're all lifelong professional soldiers

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:57 PM

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Yeah but luckily Spartans don’t represent all of humanity

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:57 PM

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They're 100% of the sample space of pizza-skin users rn

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:58 PM

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If all of humanity were Spartans then the world would be bleak and boring

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:58 PM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjN1eWhzPeA

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:58 PM

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Well, unless they became Spartans after living relatively normal lives

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:58 PM

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That

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That's cool

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I just want big battles

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Serious plot lines

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Cool visual designs

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That's what Halo's always been about

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM

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We still have all that

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM

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Oh shut up

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM

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No

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM

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I'm not criticising anything

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM

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Well... you know Halo has had a mix of stuff. I mean for everything serious, there has been a thirsty grunt.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM

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I'm explaining what I like

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM

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I prefer the cutter vs atriox promotional material

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Car salesman was best

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:00 PM

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I'm beginning to feel really bitter

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Ngl

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:00 PM

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I’m cogniscent enough to recognize that commercial didn’t represent the actual tone of the game; it just parodied itself in a creative way

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:01 PM

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Well unfortunately, I'm not on your level of abstract parody enjoyment

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I just want cool stuff

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:01 PM

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The existence of those commercials didn’t suddenly make cutter and atriox incompetent

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

Though those commercials were genuinely funny

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

Atriox is still a fearsome character even though there is a non canon version of him wearing a tie

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

And I think they overall were amazing

#

I'm just saying that I like cool stuff - I literally just like self-serious, action-orientated tones and themes with a gritty bent to them

#

I like rational behaviour, and good aesthetics

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:02 PM

#

I mean, they are cool

#

But I think they pop more when juxtaposed with humorous ones

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

As a little kid, I fell in love with Halo because of what I saw as unfailingly badass sci-fi action

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

If it was all cool all the time then it would get lost in the never ending sea of cool seriousness

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

And that's what's always kept me coming back

#

You can't object to that

#

It's a totally fair preference that I think many people hold

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

Well I can’t object to what you like about halo because it’s what you like

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

I mean

#

You seem to be trying incredibly hard to

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

I’m not saying you shouldn’t like cool stuff

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

It's beginning to feel that way

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

I just think it’s unreasonable that you seem to only like cool stuff

#

Especially when the funny stuff is mostly ancillary

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

I mean, let's return to your earlier point - funny stuff and cool stuff aren't always mutually exclusive.

#

You can make humour cool.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

And you can make coolness funny

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

I don't think, however, that's possible with the pizza skin

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

Well do note there is a wide sea of fans. :) Many like different things. While many in this channel are lore focused, there is many aspects of lore people love. I love the obscure, some love the funny, some love the serious, some love the weird, some love the civilian stuff, so on.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

This is all, need I remind you, about the pizza skin

#

It's an abomination

#

It looks terrible

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

I thought it was about yap yap

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

It's not funny

#

Screw YapYap, we're done with him

#

We moved onto the pizza skin some time ago

#

It's an atrocity

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

Pizza skin is low brow to me because I think all of meme culture is low brow

#

Some people love by meme culture

#

Which sucks

#

But it’s the reality we live in

#

We gotta share the world with them

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

You're a living contradiction of a man

#

You know that right

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

I know a few folks that love both YapYap and the Pizza Skin. So it does appeal with folks.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

I’m just able to Stand on the middle of the fence

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

By defining where the middle lies

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

Centrism ftw

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

I'd say the best compromise is have jokes, but ensure that they're good ones.

#

ODST Johnson

#

Atriox vs Cutter

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

Well naturally

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

These are good things

#

YapYap occupying a multiplayer slot that could've been something cool

#

The pizza skin

#

No no no

#

These things are silly

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

I recognize though that what I find funny is subjective so if a joke misses the mark with me, it’s not like it just shouldn’t exist

#

Aka pizza skin

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

I just want to like nuke it

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

I can very easily ignore pizza skin

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

Every time I see it

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

At the end of the day. 343i has to accommodate a lotta fans. If they just accommodated one group, they'd lose a lot.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

It’s existent doesn’t ruin anything for me

#

It’s like a very faint stain on the back of a shirt

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

Whoever is responsible for that pizza skin is, while I'm sure a very talented and good individual, a heinous villain

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:10 PM

#

Yeah I can’t tell if your serious or not anymore

#

If you are then I feel you’re blowing it a bit out of proportion

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:10 PM

#

Hey and plot twist... I actually used the Pizza skin for awhile.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:10 PM

#

Nor can I - I've grown paranoid of making well thought out statements tonight because I feel they might be interpreted as doomsday prophecies

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

Well I’m sure you got some tasty kills

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

So now I'm just kinda meming

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

Oh

#

Well

#

No memes

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

Dont meme here plz.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

As ericky would say

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

But it is trash though, they should work on making more tasteful skins.

#

I roll with default

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

Gold trimmed weapon skins

#

Awesome

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

Whenever I feel like subjecting myself to the gold grind again

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:12 PM

#

Gold standard, landgrave

#

I don’t care if gold weapons aren’t fiscally responsible

#

They look great

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:12 PM

#

Why wouldn't you care about that

#

This is the point where empathy fails me

#

I've always been astounded at the things which don't ruin other people's immersion

#

I feel like I've inherited some kind of disorder from the Arma community

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

By which I mean the dudes who play OPTRE

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

Can’t attest to that

#

If immersion breaking causes that much legitimate distress then maybe you are taking it too seriously

#

Serious question: does Grunt Birthday Party break immersion for you?

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:17 PM

#

Yep.

#

Never play with it on if I can avoid it.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:17 PM

#

Oof

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:17 PM

#

My brother always complains.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

Yeah then it’s an inherent difference in how we approach fictional realms

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

Wonder what the source of that is

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

Myriad of things, probably

vivid dust Aug 13, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

In my headcanon IWHBYD is always on thanks

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

I just know its impossible to play 100% to canon in each game no matter how hard you try.

#

Halo: The Flood has a ton of impossible stuff in it.

vivid dust Aug 13, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

I kinda wish we had more ways to customize the campaign difficulty to get closer to that 100%

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

That's a given.

#

There's too many practicalities which are overlooked for smooth gameplay.

#

Which is fair enough.

#

Though I do feel that one of the main reasons I'm fixated on practicalities is that the EU likes the emphasize them

#

Most of the Halo books are written in a very detail orientated way - or the ones that resonate with me, at least.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:25 PM

#

Books naturally lend themselves to detail

#

Best way to flesh out an idea and world build

#

Is with a book

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:25 PM

#

There's many types of detail, though.

#

You can be descriptive without having to describe practicalities.

#

Nylund liked things to be grounded, and it kinda stuck.

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

Regardless, here is a fun thing, you can believe whatever canon you want. All I can do is show ye what 343i counts as canon (for better or worse)

Many things are contained in areas that will never (in a major way) be expanded upon, thus can be ignored really easy by folks that dislike it.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

Very true.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:28 PM

#

Well from how much you value immersion, I think your fixation on practicalities stems from your desire to frame a fictional world by the rules of reality so that the fictional world is more acceptable as “true”

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:28 PM

#

Sounds about right.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:28 PM

#

I.e. the more practically defined the world is, the more you’re able to accept it as another “reality”, so to speak

#

Then if something comes along and breaks that reality, it shocks your system

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

I may be compelled to justify fiction to myself and others.

#

Maybe in an effort to dispel the notion that it's silly or demeaning.

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

You do hate my Halo universe is not 1 to 1 to ours speal so I wont go into it. But thats how I view it in general.

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

Man, deep dive.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:30 PM

#

Fiction has never been silly nor demeaning

#

Our culture as a species is built on fiction, when you think about it

#

What would we be without the Iliad

#

Or Beowulf

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:30 PM

#

Or King Arthur.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:30 PM

#

Or Shakespeare’s stories

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

I think I get the point xD

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

Do you think cavemen made fiction?

#

thinkingchief

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

It's probably more a reflexive thing anyway. I just ought to chillax.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:33 PM

#

If there is someone out there who denounces all fiction as silly or demeaning then I pity them

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:33 PM

#

Well it wouldn't be all fiction.

#

It'd be sort of competitive thing - my interests are more valid than yours, etc.

#

You're gullable and easily pleased for buying into this.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

Sounds like a terrible interaction to have

fair hazel Aug 13, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

Hi memes

#

No*

#

Autocorrect

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

Thanks for clarifying.

#

Well this has been illuminating.

#

Anyone hyped for Oblivion?

#

S'gonna be a juicy read.

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:37 PM

#

I am hyped to finally have plenty info to get stuff on the wiki about HOD. I have ship names, character names, and other stuff thats rad to get onto the wiki this and next week.

#

Have to thank @limpid meadow for his work cause a lot of this is due to him recording stuff we needed.

#

Like the bare minimum is required now. (Stuff thats situational or impossible)

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 3:39 PM

#

A true hero

#

As ever

#

The soldier we needed him to be

fair hazel Aug 13, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

I like the floss... you guys have been talking for a while.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:42 PM

#

The only floss in my life is for dental hygiene

fair hazel Aug 13, 2019, 3:43 PM

#

Speaking of outpost discovery, I literally dreamt that outpost discovery was being held at my local park and bravo, greenskull and others were at the stage and me too and we were doing some custom game. So there’s that.

#

Oblivion is before meridian divide right?

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

I don't think I've ever had a Halo dream

#

i've had a batman dream

#

but not a Halo one that I can recall

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

If anyone wants the instructor names for HOD.
Sergeant Latourette = Training grounds instructor.
Lieutentant Wilson = Pelican training instructor.
Sergeant Cruz = Combat Deck instructor
Major Narain = Covenant Escape instructor

#

Nice to see a wide range of ranks tbh.

#

Great for my research xD

fair hazel Aug 13, 2019, 3:48 PM

#

I’m still a bit disappointed we didn’t get any summer reads or comic book lines

#

Oblivion September 24th. Well I’ll be reading that one shot, and meridian divide too later.

#

Preview is available for meridian divide but discuss that In #485883236430512168

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

The Pelican training is for a D77 Pelican. The specifics are its linked to Cruiser "Fifth Winter" going to groundside Station Bravo-Lima. And the Captain of the pelican is B. Wallace.

Which makes me wonder if Wallace from The Fall of Reach got a downgrade lol.

stoic hamlet Aug 13, 2019, 4:16 PM

#

Pretty sure he died

#

Oh no wait, I’m thinking of the pilot from First Strike

brisk current Aug 13, 2019, 5:27 PM

#

Yap yap isn’t canon he is just in halo wars 2 for laughs im guessing, but on the halo waypoint yap yap post they said he isn’t canon

remote spruce Aug 13, 2019, 5:45 PM

#

both

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 6:13 PM

#

YayYap is canon.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

but not everything about him. Like his twitter account and the Yappening

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

Ok yes that is correct

alpine nova Aug 13, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

Here's one thing that has been confusing me for a while: Is the Gravemind that the Master Chief & the Arbiter encountered under the library the same Gravemind that was present in High Charity?

gilded mason Aug 13, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

Yes.

alpine nova Aug 13, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

Brilliant. That clears up some things.

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

Technically all Graveminds are the same due to some very complex stuff.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

Maybe a better question would be whether it was the same biomass on High Charity that was under Installation 05

#

or was it a new formation of biomass created on High Charity

alpine nova Aug 13, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

Yes ^^ much better question.

obsidian thistle Aug 13, 2019, 10:06 PM

#

The likely scenario is it just built a body on High Charity and abandoned the one on Delta Halo.

humble yacht Aug 13, 2019, 10:07 PM

#

But it doesn’t need to abandon bodies

devout compass Aug 13, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

Have the Forerunners been shown to use slipspace bombs?

stoic hamlet Aug 13, 2019, 11:55 PM

#

Slipspace bombs?

#

You mean like bombs launched from slipspace? Or bombs that detonate in slipspace?

#

@devout compass

versed helm Aug 13, 2019, 11:56 PM

#

no. slipspace bombs are slipspace engines used as bombs. its the same type of bomb used in halo reach by jorge

stoic hamlet Aug 13, 2019, 11:56 PM

#

I mean, I can’t imagine why they would

#

It was only used in Halo Reach because they had no other ships with nuclear missiles in orbit, every other ship was in-system or had used up their missiles.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 12:17 AM

#

halo 2 original gravemind: a giant venus fly trap

#

halo 2 anniversary gravemind: oh god what the hell is that

#

343i's flood is pure nightmare fuel and i love it

tropic sandal Aug 14, 2019, 12:19 AM

#

The idea of the flood has always been horrifying, so it's cool that their visual style has finally on par

devout compass Aug 14, 2019, 12:20 AM

#

The thing is, it is not too crazy to think that the Forerunners can just look on a map grid and press a coordinate and have slipspace rupture there.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 12:20 AM

#

yeah. i honestly dont like how bungie handled the flood. bungie's flood never scared me. 343i's flood is how they are described to be: absolutely terrifying

#

bungie's flood were just a bunch of weird looking plants. 343i's flood are mounds of flesh and bone twisted into disgusting shapes. its pure art lol

fair hazel Aug 14, 2019, 12:43 AM

#

[00:H 00:M 01:S]
Of my ships that had been captured,
11.3 percent of them are close
enough to Mendicant's core fleet
that they can be used offensively -
either by initiating their
self-destruct sequences, or by
opening unrestricted ruptures into
[slipstream space].

last anchor Aug 14, 2019, 1:05 AM

#

The first mention of lethal slip termination

devout compass Aug 14, 2019, 1:41 AM

#

@fair hazel Is that a quote of slipspace ruptures being used offensively?

fair hazel Aug 14, 2019, 2:11 AM

#

by the forerunners

#

@devout compass

devout compass Aug 14, 2019, 2:12 AM

#

thanks

#

I swore there was quote on it, good thing it wasn't just my mind

#

I wish Forerunners had CTC processing systems in their shipboard ancilla

#

It would make sense for them to have it

#

but IDK

stable schooner Aug 14, 2019, 3:24 AM

#

@versed helm Nah the Flood in CE scare me more then anything else Bungie or 343wise

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 3:31 AM

#

I mean, the reason for that is that the Flood in CE were exceptionally well handled

#

You didn't expect them going in

#

So the sudden influx of disturbing imagery and unexplainable events in 343 Guilty Spark (paired with Cortana's erratic behaviour) was really quite chilling

#

Plus the WTF moment of actually being attacked by them for the first time

#

thats what made them scary in ce, yeah. ^

#

And then there's the non-stop, endless fight through the library - people say that mission is boring, and maybe if you've played it a bunch it is.

#

but playing anniversary graphics, to be honest, was far more terrifying than classic

#

But in the wake of 343 Guilty Spark, the Library is actually a really tense experience that's just genuinely unpleasant because of the tone and unexpected direction of the game

#

Personally, I'm an advocate of playing CE with classic graphics. Anniversary, while superficially pretty, doesn't always capture the right vibes.

#

Though I do absolutely adore how the Marines look. Reach battle dress + MA5Cs? Perfection.

#

i guess im more of a sucker for 343 if anything, though. so take what i say with a grain of salt

#

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that while 343's visual designs are absolutely great, especially in HW2 and H2A with the Flood, the PG, kinda grit-less approach they've taken means that those designs aren't used effectively as a horror tool.

#

A dream scenario for me would be a Halo Infinite where the Flood pop up

#

It's unexpected and startling

#

And you've got new Flood designs except for the combat forms, which should certainly take 100% of their influence from The Mona Lisa

#

the mona lisa was great

#

Plus a bunch of new emphasis on pure forms.

#

In the long term, I think pure forms would be exceedingly vital to the Flood's life cycle and war effort

#

And they totally need to find ways to make pure forms both satisfying to fight and more horrific than just lumps of goo

#

Though I should also say that the Flood kinda lost their effect by Halo 3

#

So it's not really a 343 thing

#

Their re-introduction in Halo 2 was 👌

#

Even if it's kinda inexplicable without obscure EU knowledge

stable schooner Aug 14, 2019, 4:27 AM

#

The idea of your common infection growing intelligence by absorbing bodies freaked me the heck out. That’s not even mentioning the godly atmosphere of CEs Flood missions or the Flood themselves playing dead which still pains me when I see it.

#

Them being a intergalactic super intelligent more philosophical corrupted god’s Kinda just ruined the vibe

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 4:29 AM

#

At the moment I'm very in on the idea of the whole "infection" part of the Flood's scheme just being to increase intelligence

#

I think it's probably most likely right now that they can, to some extent, generate their own raw biomass once they have the intelligence to coordinate production

#

Hence, why I was saying that I think pure forms should be emphasized more

#

So your general outbreak flowchart would be

Combat forms used as shock troops ---> Combat forms assimilate captured neuro-nervous systems into keymind forms ---> keymind forms coordinate production of pure forms

#

By that logic, you'd want to have pure forms that could fulfil a combat form-like role.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 4:50 AM

#

As far as the flood, no ones seen the real threat of the flood since the firing of the halo rings that killed the forerunners.

#

I wanna know what happened to the librarian, 343 guilty spark, and the different forerunner technologies. If they fired the rings knowing they’d die after using every other attempt possible to stop the flood then did their real big bad toys get destroyed? Also where are their contender class ais...
Also...who is the warden, is it an ai or a forerunner remotely using it...or a composed forerunner...

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 4:53 AM

#

who is the warden
Nobody knows.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 4:54 AM

#

Just a guy

#

Tim

#

His name's Tim

alpine nova Aug 14, 2019, 4:55 AM

#

I know!

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 4:55 AM

#

What are the odds

alpine nova Aug 14, 2019, 4:56 AM

#

There's a graphic novel which explains his origins and his past with Cortana

#

It's from Tales From Slipspace in a substory called Dominion Splinter.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

Still doesn't touch on his origins, or what he is.

alpine nova Aug 14, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

I guess not. I actually wouldn't know, since I haven't read it, but it does have some valuable info.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

I’d argue ai

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

It's just him meming out with Cortana

#

It's exactly what you'd imagine

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

Maybe offensive bias???!

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

I doubt it

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 4:59 AM

#

Reincarnated

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 4:59 AM

#

It'd be pretty left field

#

I think they'd want to spend some time building these characters up within the central storyline

#

Before having them get reincarnated and play a major role and whatnot

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:00 AM

#

Or just like the ai on genesis just another forerunner system to keep things in order.

#

So many options for things as the halo universe is so expansive

#

Is the primordial more gravemind than precursor?

#

Or the opposite?

#

Cause it almost dooms life by trying to get revenge on the forerunners.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:03 AM

#

I think it's best described as, like, a Precursor agent.

#

I don't know if you've ever played Brood War, but he'd be to the Precursors as Duran is to the Xel 'Naga

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:04 AM

#

Can’t remember Duran lol

#

Been awhile

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:04 AM

#

He's the lad who was trying to make Hybrids

#

Worked for the UED a bit, then Kerrigan

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:04 AM

#

Ohhhhhh yeah yeah

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:05 AM

#

He's not really a full-on Xel 'Naga, but he's like a dude who works for them. I think, anyway, I'm not sure how his storyline got resolved in StarCraft II

#

That's how I see the Promordial. A dude who works for the Precursors and is perhaps responsible for engineering their revenge, failing their return.

#

He willingly let himself be assimilated into the abstract Gravemind consciousness to further that goal.

#

But the thing that always worries me about the Forerunner books - and I honestly have the same grievance with First Strike - is that they're such major universe events that are almost inaccessible to anyone who doesn't read the EU.

#

These are enormous, pivotal moments and characters, and the odds are they probably can't be used 'cuz people got lost in Halo 4.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:08 AM

#

EU?

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:08 AM

#

I think it's probably very important for 343 going forwards to be aware of what kind of events should be explored in mainstream media primarily and what's fitting for the EU, cuz it's a bit of a mishmash right now.

#

Extended Universe.

#

Halo content other than what is mainstream.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:08 AM

#

They’d be hero’s to settle it a bit

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:10 AM

#

Like, First Strike. In First Strike, not only is it explained how Johnson and Chief returned to Earth, but they bring back a load of Spartan IIs for a huge final battle to conclude the Reach story arc and prevent an enormous invasion of Earth by wiping out a 500-strong Covenant fleet and a huge space station.

#

Arguably, the events portrayed are just as pivotal as the events of, like, Halo Wars. Or Reach.

#

it was a huge thing that's honestly kinda central to understanding what the heck happened in the final days of the Covenant War.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:11 AM

#

Sounds like Microsoft should license some of the side but just as important stories for ODST like games.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:11 AM

#

I just think it highlights the importance of trying to vet the kinds of stories that authors add to the universe in a non-game format.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:11 AM

#

Idk what happened with the end of the war besides the prophet’s death and elites alliance

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:12 AM

#

Nylund is absolutely heavily responsible for much of the story and tone of the Halo universe as we know it, but he could go overboard in pretty big ways from time to time.

#

Looking at this, there are quite a bit of inconsistencies across the fiction https://www.halopedia.org/List_of_inconsistencies_in_the_Halo_series
Do you think it's possible that they could potentially fix up these inconsistencies some day?

#

There's no more or less inconsistencies than any other fictional universe of equivalent size.

#

All of those inconsistencies are the result of clashing interpretations of the universe or production errors.

#

No universe really has one, solid, true canon - what is canon is fluid, and oftentimes subjective.

#

Frankly, making a list like that in the first place is immature.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:14 AM

#

I like the ability to have loose canon cause it creates a dream of what it could be besides chiefs main involvement

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:15 AM

#

Would be nice if they could do another reprint of the books to rectify of the books or official forum posts or website explanations

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:15 AM

#

If they cut it dry halo would easily die, it’s made halo capable of years of content just to close the gaps if they want to

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:15 AM

#

As fans of the universe, it's best for us to be discerning about what we take seriously and what we do not.

#

And not follow the word of Halopedia to the letter.

#

Though we should always be receptive to grounded, well-made statements regarding what is and is not a valid interpretation.

#

Especially if backed by justifiably relevant sources.

#

That's my little paragraph-long guide to enjoying fiction, anyways.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:17 AM

#

Halopedia is about as reliable as wiki if it’s changeable, where Microsoft isn’t macroing the content.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:17 AM

#

Halopedia is best seen as a collection of sourced information than a definitive encyclopedia of canon.

wraith geode Aug 14, 2019, 5:17 AM

#

Anyone else think the operation the UNSC planned for sending a spartan team to capture a High ranking Prophet would not have worked even if they managed to hold one in captivity

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:18 AM

#

Depends which one.

#

If they got Truth it might've had a shot.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:18 AM

#

If they got truth

#

It’s gg

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:18 AM

#

Would be cool if the authors and story team checked the wiki when writing a book. Making sure it all lines up

wraith geode Aug 14, 2019, 5:18 AM

#

I feel like even if they got Truth, regret or mercy would have just taken over

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:18 AM

#

They often do.

#

Although some of them check Halo Nation, or Halo Alpha

#

Which is a terrible mistake

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:19 AM

#

In the books truth is the reason the three rose to power

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:19 AM

#

Would be cool if the authors and story team checked the wiki when writing a book.
No thanks

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:19 AM

#

He was the influence that drove the covenant-human war

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:19 AM

#

I'd personally prefer it if authors all actually familiarized themselves with all relevant media and took notes as part of their planning process.

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:19 AM

#

👆

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:20 AM

#

That would be sufficient, but it's also a hell of an ask.

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:20 AM

#

Cause they couldn’t accept humanity being the next guardians of the mantle

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:20 AM

#

That wasn't it

wraith geode Aug 14, 2019, 5:21 AM

#

But I feel like truth would just have them carry on the task of eliminating the humans even if he was executed or kept hostage

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:21 AM

#

Well the one thing that I really love about Halo 5's story is that humanity seems to reject the principle of the Mantle out-of-hand

#

Which is great

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:21 AM

#

Yeah

#

The Mantle only deserves to rot in the trash

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:21 AM

#

Wasn’t the mantle twisted by the forerunners though

#

The precursors has a hands off approach

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:21 AM

#

Well we don't really know how the Precursors actually looked at it

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:22 AM

#

Where the forerunners made it an empire

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:22 AM

#

Or how they actually manifested their will

lament bloom Aug 14, 2019, 5:22 AM

#

We did get hints because they were wiped out by the forerunners despite being much more capable

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:22 AM

#

@versed helm Agreed
If they are tying into other parts of the fiction, at least the story team should check up on that area so it lines up just right

#

I've got pretty mad respect for Denning though

#

That man seems to live and breathe Halo fiction

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:23 AM

#

I enjoy how Denning writes aliens so far.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:23 AM

#

Yeah, can't wait till Oblivion

#

So hyped

#

Would've much preferred him to have written the Kilo-Five trilogy

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:24 AM

#

I wonder how Sean Bean and Patrick Stewart will be involved in the story

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:26 AM

#

Man, it sucks that we didn't get Denning back when it was being thought up. Would've been so much better

#

Feels like the modern Eric Nylund

remote spruce Aug 14, 2019, 5:32 AM

#

Star Wars EU died for this to happen

#

~~worth it?~~

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:33 AM

#

star wars lore kinda died when Disney said the entire expanded universe is no longer canon

#

so I'd say it's worth it

remote spruce Aug 14, 2019, 5:35 AM

#

A year after that announcement Troy Denning wrote Last Light

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:36 AM

#

Probably decided that he didn't want to keep writing for people who just invalidated half of his works.

remote spruce Aug 14, 2019, 5:37 AM

#

That's my assumption too lol

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:42 AM

#

Did Denning ever write for Star Wars?

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:42 AM

#

Yes.

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:42 AM

#

14 books

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:43 AM

#

Oh wow, were they good?

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:43 AM

#

all of them made non-canon by Disney unfortunately, I never read them though

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:43 AM

#

Not a star wars fan, just looked at his bibliography

#

Seems they were pretty good though, at least a few of them made NY Times best-sellers

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:46 AM

#

I've been really slack in going through the expanded halo lore

#

I don't read enough

#

I've only ever read fall of reach and the flood

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:47 AM

#

Same, I'm still on the second chapter of The Flood lol

#

I just read all the comics about a month ago

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:47 AM

#

I didn't find the flood worth it after reading it, considering it's just Halo Combat Evolved in book form

#

I have First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx and Last Light but I have yet to read any of them

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:48 AM

#

Well it's got a bunch of new, really quite interesting side stories.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:48 AM

#

yeah, also Yayap's side story kinda bored me to death tbh

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:48 AM

#

But half of it - The Flood - is also pretty dubious as a lore source.

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:48 AM

#

I'm liking it so far honestly, yeah the parts that are just retelling the game are very bland, but the parts that focus on other characters, especially the covenant ones, are really neat

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:50 AM

#

well, they didn't bore me to death, it was enlightening reading up on it but they basically made a backstory out of the covenant who ambush you on the elevator just before the final warthog section in Halo CE

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:50 AM

#

I do like how it shows that John is actually scared of the Flood, makes him more developed

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:51 AM

#

The books do show a more humane side to John, which is why Halo 4 was considered the most accurate representation of him from the lore standpoint

#

although I regret not reading First Strike and Last Light before Halo 5 came out because I was confused as hell when I saw Kelly, Frederick and Linda were joining Chief

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:56 AM

#

Oh lol you didn't know they survived?

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:57 AM

#

nope

#

especially not Linda

#

since I had read the fall of reach, and thought she was supposed to be dead from her injuries

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:57 AM

#

Well technically she was

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:58 AM

#

but then through the power of writing and some bs magic they pulled, she "pulled through"?

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:58 AM

#

Nah, resuscitation

#

Like

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 5:58 AM

#

Can’t people be clinically dead and actually be resuscitated after being dead

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 5:58 AM

#

From death kind

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 5:59 AM

#

And organ cloning

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 5:59 AM

#

but thing is, didn't she die from severe plasma burns?

#

how can resuscitation fix that?

#

I guess I'd have to read the book, or at least the section where they explain it

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:00 AM

#

Yeah, haven't gotten that far, but I don't imagine it's impossible

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:00 AM

#

it's basically like with Harry in Kingsmen

#

from the sounds of it

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:01 AM

#

It feels impossible to grasp the limitations of medicine in the Halo universe

#

To me at the moment anyways

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:02 AM

#

What I find unclear is just what is the normal life expectancy of Humans in the Halo Universe?

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:03 AM

#

about our age, Spartans on the other hand...

#

Chief is about, in his 50's or so during Halo 4?

#

I'd have to re check

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:03 AM

#

Pretty much when I read about how Halsey froze the bodies of the Spartans that failed augmentation, in hopes of resuscitation and rehabilitation, any limit on medical science kinda went out the window for me

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:04 AM

#

Chief is about, in his 50's or so during Halo 4?
46 chronologically.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:04 AM

#

In Halo 4 he is around only 42 max due to cryo

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:05 AM

#

see, I can see that as a possible plausible reasoning, except the fall of reach book basically says she dies in Chief's arms after he plasma burns

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:05 AM

#

Probably closer to early-mid 30s considering he was constantly going around during the war

#

And it usually takes multiple weeks of slipspace travel to get places

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:06 AM

#

Biologically speaking, compared to an ordinary human, it'd be hard to get a fix on exactly how old he functionally is.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:07 AM

#

it doesn't specify how linda came back, only that she was "revived"

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:07 AM

#

Well, I don't remember First Strike very well, but I think she was quite obviously thawed at some point and then operated on.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:08 AM

#

hmmm

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:08 AM

#

It was Halsey's doing.

#

Flash cloned organs were involved.

#

I think.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:08 AM

#

that makes sense

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:08 AM

#

Did like the easter egg to Linda in CEA

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:08 AM

#

her armour probably locked down after boarding the pelican until she was able to be moved to cryo

#

I never found that easter egg

#

then again I've only played through CEA once

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:09 AM

#

Isn't it just the screens saying that she's in there

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:09 AM

#

Yup

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:11 AM

#

for a while I thought Chief was 120, since I misread the time stamps in fall of reach and thought the gap between the start and end of the book was like 100 years

#

then again I was about 13 at the time

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:12 AM

#

I mean

#

Yeah that is funny but

#

I watched a video where someone pointed out that Spartan-IV's were expected to have a service lifespan of like 90 years or something

#

Don't remember where it was from

#

But if Spartan-IIs are supposed to be even better than that, who even knows

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:15 AM

#

is the word "d" "a" "m" + an n banned or something?

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:15 AM

#

Yeah, bot-censored

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:15 AM

#

ok

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:15 AM

#

Along with almost anything remotely curse-y

#

Except crap for some reason

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:17 AM

#

well I was just pointing out that Spartan-II's had a lot more augmentation done compared to IV's and at a much younger age as well, so it's not that far of a stretch to see their service lifespans of more than 120 years

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:17 AM

#

Yeah the guy came to the same conclusion

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:17 AM

#

if the 90 year IV service lifespan is true that is

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:17 AM

#

That it could be centuries. Plural

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:18 AM

#

ha Chief can't die, he'll live for generations to come! literally

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:20 AM

#

In particular, the telomere augmentation would be the prime cause for their extremely extended lifespans

#

The intention was for the Spartans to have speedy natural healing, and be able to sustain many injuries over their life without worry of their healing factor losing its juice

#

But as a side-effect, it could most definitely extend their life expectancy to uncharted ages

#

Was the gist of the video

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:24 AM

#

I wonder if Chief will get bored

#

I mean, he isn't like DOOM guy where he can just going around killing things for the rest of his life

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:25 AM

#

That's what the trilogy tries to portray him as lol

#

Maybe one day when the galaxy isn't in danger of extermination or totalitarian dictatorship

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:27 AM

#

yeah

#

well this confirms it, Chief cannot die in Halo Infinite

#

because the only other way he could die is if something killed him, and we all know that's impossible hehe

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:28 AM

#

DOOM has "Man too angry to die" we have "Man too lucky to die"

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:30 AM

#

I actually hope that John gets to retire and finally be able to live in peace with the rest of Blue Team

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:30 AM

#

even if Chief is held at point blank range while being held down and no feasible way to escape, his luck will probably cause the weapon aimed at him to be empty

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:31 AM

#

I was gonna say "You know the UNSC wouldn't allow that" but then I'm like "Wait can the UNSC even stop them?"

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:31 AM

#

Would be cool if the UNSC gave it the go--ahead, finally allowing them to walk away from the fighting

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:31 AM

#

Especially after 5 I'm certain they have 0 control over our favorite Spartan-IIs lol

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:33 AM

#

UNSC:"Do This"
Chief:"No"
Captain America: Civil War

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:33 AM

#

Actually I remember one part of Escalation where Hood basically told Chief he could retire or ask for promotion to Admiral rank and no one would bat an eye

#

Because he's the savior of humanity

#

And then Chief is just like "But Master Chief sounds better"

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:34 AM

#

that makes sense, Chief is basically just going out there and fighting cause he wants to at this point

#

that just makes me think back to Blue Teams opening in Halo 5 and how much more it makes sense now

#

Chief isn't doing mission after mission cause of grief over Cortana, he's just bored outta his mind

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:35 AM

#

No I think it's because he doesn't know how to relax

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:35 AM

#

oh yeah

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:36 AM

#

He's literally been on mission after mission since Mendez trained them

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:36 AM

#

Thought about this, and wonder what you guys think. If Halsey was on her death bed, with Blue Team by her side. Her final wish for all of them is to be able to leave the fighting behind, and finally able to live the lives they deserve. They wouldn't be comfortable and wouldn't be 100% confident, but they would do it to honor their mentor/mother figure's dying wish.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:37 AM

#

hmm

#

while I can see that they would try to stop fighting, I wouldn't find a request like that from Halsey to be likely

#

still, that's kind of interesting

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:39 AM

#

I wanna see my boy just go get a massage one day. He's earned it lol

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:39 AM

#

how could he get a massage though his armour though

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:39 AM

#

Very precisely

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:40 AM

#

Would be down to see John's full adult face in his final game, possibly his very last scene

#

Not everyone likes massages

#

Chief strikes me as almost... too dignified?

#

Is that a thing? Can you be too dignified for a massage?

#

If Blue Team was to retire, which planet would you like to see them retire on?

#

Only one choice

#

🌍 🌎 🌏

#

Or

#

Resettled Reach

#

Would be cool to see them come back to Reach

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:43 AM

#

They'd most certainly go to Reach

#

As soon as that became an option

#

They'd be on the first colony ship there if they had retired by then

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:44 AM

#

this is Chiefs real face https://66.media.tumblr.com/e9a94d1ac9e2fd54ae55462e1306a050/tumblr_nyyhibMUK41v0fcf9o1_400.gif

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:44 AM

#

Pulled a Kakashi lol

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:44 AM

#

Though do you think they'd wait until 2589 to retire on Reach?

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:44 AM

#

reach is a glassed over wasteland though

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:45 AM

#

At the moment anyways

#

Give it a few decades it'll return to habitable.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:46 AM

#

Do you think Forerunner tech was involved to help re-terraform it?

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:46 AM

#

Probably.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:47 AM

#

Do you think we'll ever go to the 27th century in the games?

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:48 AM

#

I don't think we will. At this rate we'll be in the 22nd century IRL when it gets to that point

#

Although, it has been moving faster since 343 took over so who knows

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:49 AM

#

Hope after the last game with Chief there's a time jump like that. Opens up many possibilities

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:50 AM

#

they could make that jump with chief anyway

#

going back to the whole "he could live for centuries"

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:50 AM

#

Halo kinda needs to go beyond John, so I'd rather he not.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:51 AM

#

it does but at the same time it doesn't

#

it can easily go beyond John without removing him entirely

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:52 AM

#

We can definitely move away from John as the focus of the franchise

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:52 AM

#

they could do something like what they've done with one punch man

#

the series hardly ever centres around saitama yet he's still the "main character"

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:53 AM

#

As proven by the reception of ODST and Reach's campaigns

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:54 AM

#

the whole "remove chief" idea is a contender for the main thing people disliked about Halo 5

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:54 AM

#

Though I imagine a lot of that was because it was unexpected

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:54 AM

#

yeah

#

and of course the way they went about doing it

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:55 AM

#

Think they should do it more naturally. Like giving him the full-star treatment for his final game. Giving him a fitting and satisfying end

#

He can't be the lead character forever, the franchise has to move beyond him

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

Next game would be very fitting to do it

#

7 main installments of the Halo series

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

the series also has to be passed along to someone people like

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

So Thel.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

Jerome?

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

Not another Spartan please

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

the other part about the "remove chief" idea with 5 is not many people liked Locke

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

Maybe N'tho.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:59 AM

#

why not another Spartan?

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:59 AM

#

Or no 'main' character.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 6:59 AM

#

so, more games like ODST?

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 6:59 AM

#

yes

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:59 AM

#

We have had enough Spartans.

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 6:59 AM

#

Having no single main character after Chief would be pretty cool

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 6:59 AM

#

Yes.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

Sadly I think Spartans will always be the lead character of the main games

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

That way things can branch out more

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

maybe a complete Covenant game

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

Yes please

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

after Halo 2 we have yet to have "covenant" like levels

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

Honestly

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

all Halo 3 had was your coop partner could be Arbiter

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

I think having a game where you play as a Covenant soldier and at some point fight humans

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:00 AM

#

yes

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:01 AM

#

Would be not only excellent as a Halo 2-esque change of pace

#

But also a really neat way to further explore human military stuff

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 7:01 AM

#

Ye

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:02 AM

#

Would you also like to play as an Outer Colonist in a game?

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:02 AM

#

I jokingly had the idea of what if Halo 7 was you fight the UNSC amongst my friends, but it got me thinking, we haven't actually full on fought UNSC

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:02 AM

#

What sort of enemy variety dynamic would you have for fighting UNSC?

#

You'd have regular rifle dude

#

I think a drone-controlling dude is an obvious choice

#

Maybe you could find a compelling way to have a heavy dude that's not just more health

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:03 AM

#

Marines as the grunt types, Heavy Marines as the elite types, Spartans would probably be the Brute Chieftain or Hunter like enemies

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:03 AM

#

A cyclops.

#

Have a cyclops fill the hunter role.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:03 AM

#

Cyclops for hunter would make more sense

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:03 AM

#

Wonder if a game focused on a Marine between 5 & Infinite could work

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:04 AM

#

a game about the marine from the trailer

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:04 AM

#

You think it'd be too tropey to have like a riot shield dude?

#

For the UNSC?

#

Seems a bit too played out. A little unrealistic.

#

Unless it had a really good lore justification.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:05 AM

#

seeing as they haven't had them before, probably not

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:05 AM

#

Well the UNSC is always getting a bunch of new stuff

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:05 AM

#

only problem with UNSC as an enemy is the hit-scan weaponry

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:05 AM

#

Hope the UEG and Outer Colonies actually come closer together through and after this conflict

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:05 AM

#

Scorpions would be a lot tougher to beat than a Wraith

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:06 AM

#

It'd force you to re-examine a lot of basic stuff to give it fair mechanics, yeah.

#

I've always thought a good way to flesh out human soldiers in Halo would be to give them different armour types.

#

You'd have guys with ballistic armour that protects them from things like needlers, conventional firearms, carbines

#

You'd have guys with heavy impact plating as generally tough to kill but also immune to explosions type thing

#

And you'd have guys with special anti-plasma ablative armour, maybe

#

The impact armour would probably be, like, ODST armour.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:08 AM

#

that could work, and it would force you to have to take on each enemy in a different way much like how Halo CE, 2 and 3 were

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:08 AM

#

Judging from how it's described in Contact Harvest.

#

Though I'm not entirely sure the "impact plating" in Contact Harvest isn't just regular Marine armour plating.

#

there's arguments for it being both special bomb gear and just regular heavy battle dress.

#

Though I'm still collecting book sources on UNSC body armour to do an overhaul of the Halopedia pages on UNSC battle dress

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 7:10 AM

#

I still think it's hilarious that everything I've seen about the Covenant picture them as an unbeatable, overwhelming and technologically superior force, but then I started reading the novels and their tacticians are low key scared of ground engagments with humans

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:10 AM

#

Well, situationally they are.

#

Whenever Spartans are involved, or ODSTs.

#

It can be pretty darn difficult to crack a defensive enemy.

#

If they're willing to throw away their lives, that is - if you don't offer mercy, as the Covenant don't, you make that decision for them.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:12 AM

#

they lose a lot of troops with each encounter

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:12 AM

#

Humans get a buff from being desperate and reckless

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:12 AM

#

they may have bigger brunt force, but if a single human can kill at least 5 of them before dying, they're numbers might not mean much

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:13 AM

#

Well the numbers game isn't that in humanity's favour.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 7:13 AM

#

also to count in grunts are the primary ground troop force, and they run scared as soon as the chain of command is broken

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:13 AM

#

In fact, I imagine that if the Covenant fought on their own terms all the time they could probably blitz human soldiers.

#

Their weapons have unparalleled stopping power and their use of energy shielding puts their survivability off the chart.

#

Thinking about it realistically, a UNSC infantryman will likely be put out of the fight by a single plasma bolt.

#

Meanwhile, an Elite soldier may well take several seconds of continuous automatic fire to kill - time during which he can fire back.

#

And I imagine Covenant infantry are probably trained to advance with jackals bearing shields for cover and grunts acting as an overwhelming base of suppressing fire.

#

That'd be the sensible thing to do, at least.

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 7:15 AM

#

Sounds agreeable to me

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:16 AM

#

And personally, I think grunts are most fun when they're being vicious and tenacious.

#

I know "Hahah cowardly grunts lmao" are a bit of a Halo thing, but it's cooler when they're scary.

#

They could maul a human with those claws

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 7:17 AM

#

Humans get a buff from being desperate and reckless
Sun Tzu warned to not pressure a cornered enemy smh did they not read his work? /s

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:17 AM

#

But obviously having them retreat is a staple game mechanic

#

I think it'd be cool if a grunt could try and sort of desperately flail at you and do a bit of damage if you corner it

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Or if they could all bum-rush you if they've got a significant numerical advantage

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 7:19 AM

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To be honest, the funny, cowardly grunt shtick is kinda wearing out. Especially considering the kinds of things they have to put up with.

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:20 AM

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I'd agree with that

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 7:20 AM

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Grunts are very analogous to Goblins from the fantasy genre, I love when goblins get scary

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:22 AM

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Yeah, you can only do it for so long. Would like to see them in more dramatic roles, like how some are in the books

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S T O L T

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ahem

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 7:23 AM

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Like good ol-

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Yeah him

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 7:23 AM

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I think the more ridiculous side will always be there in some capacity but it would definitely be awesome to see them get serious

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:23 AM

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Well, I'm sure it's possible to make everyone happy.

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If those people are willing to be discerning, anyways.

stoic hamlet Aug 14, 2019, 7:49 AM

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Unrelated: ONI has a gun that kills with sound

versed helm Aug 14, 2019, 7:58 AM

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Take that Forerunners

carmine sleet Aug 14, 2019, 7:59 AM

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Well, it is a perfect weapon for assassinations for sure

storm flume Aug 14, 2019, 8:10 AM

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Isn't that something that we know is possible IRL?

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I know there's conspiracy theories and stuff about how it actually already exists but I definitely remember a documentary or something about how the US tried to develop a sound-based weapon.

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Like, as a Cold War project

rain token Aug 14, 2019, 11:57 AM

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I think they are called Sonic weapons

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I don't think they necessarily kill but are enough to incapacitate people.

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 11:59 AM

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in WWII one of Hitlers super weapon designs was a sonic cannon that at a close enough range would emit a frequency high enough to liquify the internal organs of enemy human soldiers

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problem was is it was more fragile than a glass pane

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so every iteration of it broke before proper use

jade lantern Aug 14, 2019, 12:01 PM

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but how did it distinguish from friend and foe? was it some kind of tight beem? or was it across a wide angle?

rain token Aug 14, 2019, 12:01 PM

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'Sonic and ultrasonic weapons (USW) are weapons of various types that use sound to injure, incapacitate, or kill an opponent. Some sonic weapons are currently in limited use or in research and development by military and police forces.'

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 12:02 PM

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since this was WWII, they didn't have a way

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standing behind it was safe however

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so the only german soldiers who would be affected were the idiots who didn't get the memo it was being fired

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it was a wide area of effect kind of weapon

jade lantern Aug 14, 2019, 12:02 PM

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so if there was a cqb situation then it would not be feasable

rain token Aug 14, 2019, 12:04 PM

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oh

jade lantern Aug 14, 2019, 12:04 PM

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also say this was in the halo universe do you think there would be any counter measures in any of the spartans armour

past olive Aug 14, 2019, 12:05 PM

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possibly

jade lantern Aug 14, 2019, 12:05 PM

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perhaps the heavy explosives disposal armour would have some kind of jell

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i honestly wish they kept the master chiefs armour from halo 4 and 5 it was so tanky and looked really cool

rain token Aug 14, 2019, 12:06 PM

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wasnt this mentioned in one of the books?

jade lantern Aug 14, 2019, 12:07 PM

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perhaps the spartan field manual

rain token Aug 14, 2019, 12:09 PM

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I was wrong

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What i was talking about was when innies used antigrav plates to fool blue teams sensors.

last anchor Aug 14, 2019, 7:58 PM

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Late to the party but I think Grunts only run if they're being assaulted by an overwhelming force if their leader dies.
As in, say, a Spartan-II is bearing down on them gun out. I'd run from that too.

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Against normal humans they probably hold their ground.

feral perch Aug 14, 2019, 9:30 PM

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All except Stolt

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Well, it could have been a Spartan-III that he defeated

peak fjord Aug 14, 2019, 9:38 PM

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So how did Bungie Elites and 343 Elites change. I mean there’s a reason for jackal appearance change(different race) but why has Thel Vadam gone from eyes well above the mandibles to Halo 5 where his eyes are just barely above the mandibles.

gilded mason Aug 14, 2019, 9:40 PM

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343's current explanation is that there are simply a large variety of Sangheili phenotypes, with 4 and 5 showing off the one they first designed. As for Thel looking like that, 343 said they simply didn't have the time/resources to make a new head model underneath that helmet.

agile lotus Aug 14, 2019, 10:26 PM

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points to H2A

fallow quest Aug 14, 2019, 10:44 PM

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Points to the time and resources wasted to port H2A elite model into the engine H5 uses, get it to work in engine and then animate that separate model from the rest of the elites. Plus H2A Arbiter in his Kaidon armor is in an animated cgi cutscene and not in engine.

Since we know the H2A elites in engine have borked faces where their right mandibles are being stretched to the tearing point.

remote spruce Aug 14, 2019, 11:20 PM

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points to random thing

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 12:55 AM

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@fallow quest well that’s what makes a good game in my eyes. Bungie cut half of Halo 2 and they still managed to Make the Sentinels different based on the Rings. I prey to the Forerunners for a proper looking Arbiter back

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:07 AM

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Sentinels don't have facial bones to animate. The sentinels in Halo 2 (other then enforcers) were only 2. The normal aggressor and the gold version with blue beams.

Heck even the H2A Cutscene team didn't place the Kaidon armor mandible guard on his face.

It also has to do with identification. The same reason why in the Fall of Reach animation (should be called the Fall of Sam.) Their Mark IV armors are designed to look similar to their Halo 5 armors. Same reason why the grunts and jackals in that animation are halo 4/5 grunts and jackals. Also why they use the BR85 model when technically it shouldn't exist and even the BR55 was still in prototype at that time.

It saves time on work flow, it helps identify the product as their own and not Bungie era.

In the perfect Halo game, where they were given infinite time and resources (I mean they kinda have the latter with rumors being that Halo Infinite has a $500m budget.) There would be all phenotypes for all the races, different armors from different eras, Correct Forerunner architecture, etc... Best bet is to claim Headcanon and just picture them in how you truly see them.

Its how I do calm my annoyances with some of the choices made for any of the games and properties.

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:09 AM

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Heck even the H2A Cutscene team didn't place the Kaidon armor mandible guard on his face.
A better look, to be honest.

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:09 AM

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Nope the Sentinels on the Gas mine called CE Sentinels didn’t light up when they shoot, lacked the Sentinel float trail and didn’t have bottom lights on their model. By the logic your presenting they shouldn’t have been able to redesign the Elites in Halo 4

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:09 AM

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How is that?

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:10 AM

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And instead just used Reach Elites. As 4 is just designed off Reach as 5 is to 4

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:10 AM

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They had the resources to redesign elites in H4 because that was a main enemy so of course it got a full project for their designs. While other things like certain weapons and vehicles didn't (multiple things are reskinned Reach models.)

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Same with the sentinels in H2, they're a prevalent enemy in H2, so of course they get a new slightly upgrade model and texturing.

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Porting a model not made by them, not for their version of their game engine and reworking a completely new face rig and skeleton rig for 1 character like the arbiter when they have a perfectly fine sangheili model to go off of is a waste of resources.

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:13 AM

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And the Sword Of Sanghelios Elites were a major ally in 5 so they deserved the same attention and redesigning the Elites in 4 was work not required but they did it so they can clearly choose on what they budget on

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:15 AM

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Nah, like I said, saves time and resources to just rework the model of elites they have and reskin them to be red. Done and done. No need to waste so many hours for allies that you really only see in the camp and The Battle of Sunaion.

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:17 AM

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And also fight with you on the first Sanghelios mission for an entire part of the mission. Even the Cops in ODST were given unique designs.

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:17 AM

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Crunch is a horrible thing, but I understand the choices they make. I may not like it but I understand. Choosing the path of least resistance when you have resources to circumvent it.

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:17 AM

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Well that’s a shame cause that doesn’t make good games imo but good thing that seems to be a changing with Infinite so new designs here we go

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:18 AM

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Huh? Doesn't make good games? The entirety of Majora's Mask was just that. One big Crunch done under 1 year, using the resources created for Ocarina of Time.

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Or even New Vegas.

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But thats off topic.

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:19 AM

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I’ve met very few people that said Majoras mask was as good or better then Ocarina of time

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And New Vegas I also have an argument for that but your right this is off topic

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:25 AM

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Also changing the subject. What is your "headcanon" for Forerunner sclera (eye) color? In game their eyes are completely black with their Iris being colored. But in the CGI cutscenes and terminals they are white eyes. I actually like the black, but I understand them being white. Since Forerunners (Ghibalbians hehehe) are related to Humans.

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:26 AM

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Oof you asked the wrong guy for that. Foreunner lore is my weakest subject @gilded mason what’s your head Canon for this?

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I’m all about the Covenant myself

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:27 AM

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Guess you could have both, for at least Ur-Didact. His mutations that he gave himself might have done that, since most forerunners and Prometheans don't have the vampire fangs on the outside of their lips.

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:28 AM

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Foreunner lore is my weakest subject @Ostral what’s your head Canon for this?
I don't care about Forerunners, either. lol

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:29 AM

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Okay, easier one then. Hooves or Toes for Sangheili?

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:29 AM

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Hm. I'm good with either, I guess.

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Was mainly only for hooves until I saw some good art of them with toes

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:30 AM

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To be fair Gear Ostral has on record said he would accept Halo Wars Elite in Halo 4 Armor

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:31 AM

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lol

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Only in the context of finally getting to play as one again

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:31 AM

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I look at it evolutionarily. If Sangheili are predators (Most likely omnivores but more carnivore focused.) Then I would think they would have toes. For stealth and being silent while hunting prey.

The same reason why cats, wolves other mammalian predators have toe beans. While herbivores don't.

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:31 AM

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Good point.

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:32 AM

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Also why I actually like some bits of the 343 sangheili head, if they are omnivores they need molars. Which 343's versions do. Instead of all sharp canine teeth.

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:32 AM

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Molars don't really make much sense with their head shape, though.

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:33 AM

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True, I guess they could some how chew with some thing in their throat. Otherwise they're gonna have to swallow things whole like most reptiles.

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:33 AM

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nice

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:34 AM

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I also think they can mostly speak with their tongue in their throat.

stable schooner Aug 15, 2019, 1:34 AM

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Well Halo 3 started the feet trend and honestly I Actually like the feet despite Classic 2 being my Favorite Design

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:35 AM

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Perhaps those are just boots that really crush their feet haha.

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It is interesting that they were modelled with a Tongue to. https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--_uLwhw4e--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/184ipziuuvac1jpg.jpg

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:37 AM

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They really liked to show off that tongue in concept art.

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:37 AM

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I dunno would explain how they chew. Tongue acts as a bottom "jaw" to hold the food

versed helm Aug 15, 2019, 1:38 AM

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This is definitely the type of conversation I should try to avoid at all costs

compact yacht Aug 15, 2019, 1:38 AM

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Do Spartan 4s have numbers like the last 2 versions or is that unnecessary because they tend to have surnames?

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:38 AM

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You know you love it, Looters.

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:38 AM

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They don't.

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Just their surnames and maybe callsigns

versed helm Aug 15, 2019, 1:39 AM

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I mean for one, Sangheili jaws evolved that way because they used to carry their young like that in their mouth

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So there's your basis for that

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By the head, specifically, it's really weird

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I'll get the source real quick

fallow quest Aug 15, 2019, 1:40 AM

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The only "SPARTAN IVs" with numbers were the SPARTAN IIIs who were integrated into the IV Program.

versed helm Aug 15, 2019, 1:41 AM

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Man, the Sangheili page of Halopedia is all kinds of weird

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That is definitely a committed portion of the fanbase

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:42 AM

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lol

versed helm Aug 15, 2019, 1:42 AM

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Committed beyond dignity, one might say

gilded mason Aug 15, 2019, 1:42 AM

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Why's that?

versed helm Aug 15, 2019, 1:43 AM

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You probably saw enough of that to get the idea

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Anyway

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It's from Shadow of Intent

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The bit of lore I brought up

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Which I think is a pretty compelling basis for their weird mouths

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So I'd totally be in support of the retractable tongue serving as a bottom jaw idea

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Though maybe there's also some kind of retractable membrane as well