Or the "Storm Covenant" thing
#lore-and-universe
last anchor
limpid meadow
I was just gonna say
last anchor
You know I still hear people calling them the Storm Covenant.
Someone forgot their WWI history
limpid meadow
I kind of wish 343 would just canonize it as a UNSC designation
humble yacht
That's why I'm saying you address the fact that the info in the article is outdated but don't erase it entirely
obsidian thistle
Storm Covenant. A thing that Halo Follower kept spreading even after 343i clarified.
limpid meadow
Yikes
last anchor
It makes sense for it to be a nickname in the field.
I mean the other possible title is "Jul Mdama's Covenant" and thats kind of a mouthful.
humble yacht
like, current superman can fly but you can still find his pre-flight golden age info on his wiki
last anchor
On that I wonder what the Covenant calls the Storm Rifle, since that seems like a human designation based on our existing history.
Probably related to its intended usage
stable schooner
I say Storm Covenant cause it’s easier. And people know who your talking about.
limpid meadow
It's a human designation in the same way "Plasma Rifle" is a Human designation
@stable schooner But "Storm Covenant" is entirely incorrect
There is no 'Storm Covenant".
It shouldn't be used
It perpetuates false information.
humble yacht
the closest thing to an actual rifle that the Covenant has is the Carbine
but I don't know if it applies spin to the projectile
trail flame
Probably not
humble yacht
maybe the spin on plasma bolts is based on electron spin
last anchor
No rifling that we know of.
stable schooner
I know but people know who it refers to. Typing Jul Madama Covenant every time is a hassle. Or what ever Planet the Halo 4/5 Elites come from. Is it wrong just like 04B yes but it makes life easier.
last anchor
Also its not technically a carbine either as a carbine is a shortened version of an existing weapon.
Coming from German I think.
limpid meadow
So it should really be the "Covenant Musket" or something
last anchor
^
limpid meadow
And the "Needle Musket"
humble yacht
I liked 04b as a designation
gilded mason
Call it the Jovenant. Or Julvenant.
humble yacht
really sold the idea that the ring was a replacement
as opposed to Installation 08 or 09
gilded mason
Ye
limpid meadow
Replacement parts will have different serial numbers
humble yacht
which could easily occupy a new position in the galaxy instead of being a replacement
limpid meadow
The Installation number is a serial number
stable schooner
I won’t stop using 04B it just makes more sense to me. Un negotiable
humble yacht
yeah but
limpid meadow
The name of the ring is what denotes it's a replacement, and 08 and 09 are still "Alpha Halo"
last anchor
I use them interchangabley depending on how Im refuring to it.
humble yacht
isn't Installation 07 the only remaining of the original Halos?
humble yacht
so how did Installations 01-06 get earlier serial numbers
limpid meadow
So it was re-designated as 07
obsidian thistle
I prefer I08.
The Alpha/Delta/Gamma is the ring classification.
The Installation number is the serial number of when its added to the array.
last anchor
Alpha/Delta/Gamma is the rings position in the array
Whereas the Instillation number is its production code
obsidian thistle
So I07 was the last ring added to the array
humble yacht
serial numbers are traditionally assigned at the time of completion, not when the item is applied to whatever its being used for
last anchor
If I remember right the Greek designation was firing sequence.
04 (Alpha) kicked it off, then the rest fired in sequence
limpid meadow
@humble yacht It's a metaphor to get the point across
humble yacht
if you fire any other installation first, though, how does 04 fire first?
limpid meadow
It doesn't
If you're firing the array from another Halo, they will fire in sequence from the first one fired
But if you first from the Ark, the rings will fire in the Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta, etc sequence
humble yacht
wouldn't that sequence be determined by position of the rings?
humble yacht
also, what's the point of the array going into standby to be fired from the Ark if one could always fire the whole array from the Ark?
last anchor
04 was chosen by the Iso-didact to lead the firing sequence
Unneccary shutdown probably meant that the Flood had access to it
So it locked the system, like a phone with too many password wrongs
limpid meadow
The array going on standby meant it could ONLY be fired from the Ark after that
last anchor
Least thats how I always figured it to be
limpid meadow
That's correct
last anchor
So the Flood couldn't use the Array
last anchor
Why they would want too I dont know, but this is th e Flood. They're remnants of the Precursors. If anyone could mess with nerual phystics, it would be them.
humble yacht
but at the time it was written, I don't see the Flood wanting to use the rings for anything
limpid meadow
The Flood wouldn't be the ones firing, but stopping it
stable schooner
So I’ll ask this again would Delta Halo hit Earth?
limpid meadow
Stopping the firing of Delta Halo was what put it in standby
@stable schooner I can't say for sure from memory, but it might
humble yacht
Depends on if Earth is within 25000 light years of Delta Halo
or whatever the radius of effect was
limpid meadow
That's correct
stable schooner
Cause if it couldn’t Truths plan makes more sense
last anchor
Truth had a plan?
limpid meadow
Okay, I'm fairly confident Delta Halo on its own wouldn't hit Earth
humble yacht
The way GS phrased the array going into standby sounded like remote activation was not the norm
limpid meadow
That said, firing it would activate the rest of the array
last anchor
As was intended.
humble yacht
Terminal 7 in H3 states that Didact fired the array from the Ark, and its unlikely that he did that because they tried to fire it from another installation beforehand. Yet in H2 GS makes it sound like remote activation only becomes possible in the event of unexpected shutdown. It's not a major incongruity but it's shaky enough that it makes me think about it
limpid meadow
The IsoDidact was the one to first the Array, and he did do so from the Ark.
As for any inconsistency, I would chalk that up to changes in the story between Halo 2 and 3 (such as the Ark originally being on Earth).
obsidian thistle
IRIS if I recall went into detail about the actual firing. Its actually quite chilling.
limpid meadow
Indeed
obsidian thistle
"It's done. By my hands. The pyrrhic solution is ignited. All I have left is the quiet of space to lull me to sleep. I will dream of you."
humble yacht
but he didn't actually end up going to sleep
unless he literally meant going to sleep and not a metaphor for death
obsidian thistle
Its a metaphor for the galaxy being silenced by his hand.
Thats the only way to imagine it tbh with the Forerunner trilogy around.
humble yacht
It sounds like a metaphor for him allowing the silence to guide him to death
limpid meadow
That may have been the original intent, but things have changed since Halo 3
humble yacht
with the context of the forerunner trilogy, it sounds like he actually took a nap before the trial of Mendicant Bias
limpid meadow
The original context of H3 and IRIS imply the Didact alone survived the firing of the Halos
obsidian thistle
IRIS is essentially part one of the H3 terminals. The H3 terminals are sadly incomplete without IRIS. Its actually quite sad that the og sites died in 2010.
last anchor
I mean Silentium ends with that word.
Everythings quiet. No broadcasts. No life.
Everything dust
Dust and echos
inner basin
That dust and echos phrase may be a call back for Halo fans with how CE ended with Cortana saying the exact same phrase
humble yacht
i imagine that's why Bear used those words
last anchor
Thats totally why
remote spruce
I swear Toa was green at one point
versed helm
Too nice, probably
obsidian thistle
Dont worry about it Jungle. Nothing bad happened if you are worried.
limpid meadow
I was. I requested I be removed as a mod
obsidian thistle
We be cool though :) Us lore peeps stick together!
last anchor
Hes got a life, cant rightfully blame him
limpid meadow
YES
versed helm
Always.
obsidian thistle
We have a new Windows Operating System. Aloha 1.0. And other stuff. (Toa you seen this) xD
limpid meadow
Yep.
versed helm
Well, I guess I can tell people Windows is definitely still around in Halo.
limpid meadow
Can't wait to attend Outpost again in a couple weeks and gather everything I missed out on!
versed helm
I wonder how long that version of windows has been around.
I mean, the UNSC keeps assault rifles for 200 years - it's a fair guess that they'd have perfected something like an operating system at that point in the future and just keep the same basic bit of software with no need to update it.
Windows perfected. Compatible with everything from civilian holoscreens to military supercomputers.
versed helm
'Course
limpid meadow
Yep
humble yacht
maybe an OS lasts longer in the 26th century than now but I don't think they'd ever reach a "perfect" OS
versed helm
But once everything starts getting scrutinized by dynamic intelligences, you gotta think the game's gonna be up soon.
They'll find and anticipate things human coders probably wouldn't even dream of until it pops up several versions down the line, y'know?
limpid meadow
Fair point.
humble yacht
yeah but they could just keep doing that.
so they'd develop an OS equivalent to 2-3 iterations ahead of what a human could create and then continue improving from that point
stable schooner
I can now say with Certainty that Stealth Majors are the Brown Stealth Elites.
remote spruce
what game?
fair hazel
that from outpost?
fluid vapor
Due to Halo’s love to remember real battles and military leaders throughout the books, it made me wonder if they had any units that were named to honor past militaries’ nicknames, as they do with some ships being named after battles. I’m sure there’s absolutely no information about this, but what are the chances that there would be a UNSC Marine Division named The Devil Dogs.
I’m also asking because knowing the USMC the nickname isn’t something they would easily give up when they would have been pulled into the UEG
vague scroll
they've used nicknames older than Devil Dog for Marines, like Leather Necks. Also, they named a high school on Earth after Admiral Harper who got mentioned during the Battle of Earth in Halo 2. @fluid vapor ¯_(ツ)_/¯
fluid vapor
So, you’re saying there’s a chance
versed helm
It would not surprise me if UNSC Marines refer to themselves as devil dogs on occasion.
Also, lemme guess - @fluid vapor - this question was prompted by the recent Sabaton album, wasn't it?
I mean, it's just as likely that you just have an interest in US Marine Corps tradition or you were just using a random example, but the coincidence was too much to ignore
stable schooner
So Guilty Spark is a good guy again?
versed helm
An unpredictable entity with its own interests that has some sense of compassion and a whole lot of angsty empathy.
Is how I'd describe him, that is.
stable schooner
I’ve always maintained the stance Johnson Provoked Spark.
remote spruce
yess
fluid vapor
@versed helm I’d be lying if I said i haven’t been listening to that album since it was released, but it’s not the sole reason I was wondering.
sharp pilot
Paris class frigates only have 8 archer pods right
stoic hamlet
Rather unnecessarily rude, no?
versed helm
I legitimately don't think so
stoic hamlet
You could have phrased it better, is all
stable schooner
So are we gonna talk about how the Ship Rtas says he’s gonna take back on Great Journey is the wrong class of Ship.
stoic hamlet
.....what does he say he’ll take?
stable schooner
He’s say he’s gonna Guard the exit and then take the cruiser back. The one floating in the sky assumedly.
stable schooner
Yeah I guess they decided a CSS wasn’t good enough so they gave him a CAS in Halo 3.
Pssh still waiting for that Stealth Major page on HaloPedia.
Also I take back what I said Spec Ops and Stealth Elites can both Co Exist.
sharp pilot
@versed helm it’s says 40 pods, when there’s actually only 8
5 tubes / pod = 40 tubes
versed helm
Not all pods are ready to fire at the same time.
Yes, pods = tubes
So not all pods are visually represented on the exterior of the vessel
sharp pilot
There aren’t going to be 40 5tube pods on a frigate though
That’s over a thousand missiles
versed helm
Each pod carries two-dozen, typically, though it varies.
sharp pilot
I think it just was incorrectly worded
For the M24 archer system yes, 24 missiles per pod, each tube loads 6 missiles
Cause of you read up on The autumn class, it states it has 32 archer pods
A frigate obviously doesn’t carry more pods than a cruiser
So it was just worded wrong
That’s why I was confused
versed helm
So we've established that the number of missiles per pod can vary greatly, right?
The M58 pods, which are favoured my larger ships, are known to carry quite a few.
Oh, I see - it's 24 as well, according to Halopedia.
sharp pilot
Well, there are 2 variants of the archer deliver system. The M42 pods are 4 tubes a pod, each tube carries 6 missiles, so that’s 24.
Per pod
Then the m58 is 30 per pod of 5 tubes rather than 4
So that’s still 6 per tube
Those are the only two variants I know of
versed helm
Are you certain that the pods are made up of tubes?
I was under the impression that the tubes were the launching apparatus
sharp pilot
Yeah if you look closely at the launch hulls the pods themselves are segmented into 5 tubes
Or batteries if you’d rather call them that
Each “tube” opens independently of one another
versed helm
So your perspective is that instead of pods being split up and their contents moved into a launcher
The pods actually are the launchers and are switched out?
I'm genuinely asking, I've been a little unclear on this for a while.
Like a jackhammer tube!
That's pretty interesting.
sharp pilot
That would make for easier loading of missile pods. If you had what basically amounted to a magazine of missiles in 1 block of 5 tubes that could fire independently of one another, you could get out a lot of missiles very fast, as well as being able to quickly swap out damaged pods on a ship quickly
They could be magnetically launched or guided out of the tubes as well, or even gravitationally
Wouldn’t require much energy to do so, and might be safer than having the missile guide itself out
versed helm
Hm - interesting. And yeah, I 'spose according to Halopedia the paris does have an abnormally great amount of tubes.
Especially if each pod consists of 30 missiles, like what TFoR claims of the Commonwealth.
I wonder what the source is on that.
sharp pilot
*pods. It actually has the amount of tubes it’s show to have in game, but whoever wrote down “40 pods” actually meant 40 tubes, which would be equivalent to 8 pods
versed helm
That wouldn't be an easy error to make for someone with an interest in the ship.
It's repeated on the charon-class page
sharp pilot
I think it could actually be a huge misnomer in the lore generally. Maybe some writers mistake tubes for pods as well and that’s why some numbers may be inconsistent from how many pods you actually see on a ship
versed helm
Stalwarts have 16 pods, apparently, which seems reasonable.
I think it may possibly come down to deviation from TFoR.
Like, a lot of things Nylund wrote have been incorporated yet warped in later lore.
His version of a frigate might had actually had 50 pods
And his cruisers might have had, y'know, two hundred.
At least, I assume TFoR is the source here.
sharp pilot
Which would be insane cause that’s literally thousands of missiles
sharp pilot
A Paris having 160 archer missiles in total sounds but more reasonable than 1200 if it actually had 40 whole 5tube pods on it
versed helm
It's what I do
sharp pilot
Phatass lore junkie hours
sharp pilot
Lol
versed helm
What people don't realize about Halopedia is that it's actually falling apart
And constantly being patched up
Especially as online sources change and disappear
I've not got the foggiest clue where this 50 pods thing came from
Not TFoR, apparently.
I hope this isn't another instance of ruddy headcanon persisting
Halopedia is surprisingly rife with stuff that people just made up back in the OG days
sharp pilot
i thinks its at least done better than halo nation for the most part
regardless its always been inconsistent because of the overlapping narratives in halo generally that contradict each other, particularly with UNSC ships and spartans
versed helm
Mhm.
If it gets much more contrived on the front of MJOLNIR armour I am going to start eliminating things from my own canonical interpretation
sharp pilot
i feel obligated to breakdown or deduce stuff that doesnt add up until it does
versed helm
Anyway considering the paris' status as a heavy frigate next to the stalwart as a light one
And the paris' more direct focus on space combat instead of ground operations
I'd suggest maybe 16-20 something pods?
I mean, if the stalwart has 16, that's gotta be accurate.
sharp pilot
from all the paris illustrations i've seen, both canon and fanmade, its had somewhere between 8-14 pods along its hull. any more than that and you start running out of space. I think what the Stalart has is actually 4 of the M42 archer pods, which would equal 16 tubes, thus the 16 number. That's still a fair amount of antiship missiles for a vessel of it's size
plus it has additional streak pods against fighters, so i dont think's require archer's on mass to fulfill its role
versed helm
Well Warfleet directly says that the In Amber Clad had 16 M58 archer missile pods
Considering Warfleet's status as fairly authoritative and the usage of tubes in this context being a fairly homegrown term on your part, I'm afraid I can't quite accept your perspective on this and Halopedia certainly can't.
🤷
sharp pilot
geometrically the pods that appear on warfleet with the stalwart are incredibly small
i dont know why that it
versed helm
Warfleet is the definitive source, more or less. If it wants to scale down archer pods I'm fine with that.
sharp pilot
would be easier to actually illustrate exactly what im talking about
I've managed to count all 32 M58 pods located on the pillar of autumn. That confirms in my mind that each pod is indeed split into 5 tubes each containing 6 missiles, giving the autumn 960 total archers at it;s disposal
going over the stalwart there's some inconsistency
vague scroll
For the record, there are also various depictions of the same starship classes over Halo media. The Halcyon class has like 3 or 4 different iterations as it is. Expecting things to line up or be specific and consistent and all perfect is a fool’s errand.
Ships can be shifted and changed and edit to serve different roles and mission profiles. Just because it looks like something doesn’t mean it’s so.
sharp pilot
Warfleet's is the one i just used for reference
i am aware
the autumn class had been retrofitted with varying amounts of archer pods from what i remember
vague scroll
Autumn is different from Halcyon.
sharp pilot
PoA i meant my bad
vague scroll
Different mission, different basic loadout. Ah never mind
versed helm
^^^^
Excellent point Distant
There is no way all this stuff isn't immensely modular
But you can't just put that on Halopedia
And people still want info so we ought to give them accurate info
vague scroll
Not arguing anyone should.
versed helm
I mean, I think I'm trying to convince myself more than anything xD
vague scroll
That said, whatever numbers Warfleet gives, I’d recommend taking it at its word.
sharp pilot
exactly
versed helm
Warfleet doesn't give numbers on the paris or the charon
Both of which are wonky bois
sharp pilot
Just the stalwart page confuses me, like why would a light frigate boast even half as many missiles as a cruiser
vague scroll
Ah wonk
sharp pilot
i guess it's kinda pointless trynna figure it out
versed helm
Well I mean, archer missiles aren't total missiles
There's a bunch of different types of missiles that UNSC ships use
vague scroll
Aren’t there like three versions of the Archer family anyway?
sharp pilot
no, there are variants of caliber similar to the archer like howler or rapier, but archer is a staple line
vague scroll
I must be thinking of CIWS then
sharp pilot
both of which are different sizes though
vague scroll
There was a ship grade CIWS that has several different variants of the same name
sharp pilot
Scythe?
sharp pilot
Dual point, stacked version and then the M910s which where the ones on the paris
sharp pilot
yeah idk why they did that. the M66 Sentry dual point coilgun is of the exact same design to that of the M910 but larger, yet isnt the namesake rampart
versed helm
Anyway, to give a final answer
I just consulted the 2019 version of TFoR
And the answer is that the Commonwealth carries twenty-six pods, each of which is filled with 30 missiles.
When engaging the Covenant ship at Chi Ceti, it expended 180 missiles when it depleted pods A through J.
Halopedia will now reflect that.
obsidian thistle
The 2019 version is identical to the 2011 version apparently.
versed helm
Good to know
It's especially canon
Also marathon-class heavy cruisers have 60-75 archer pods apparently
Which is pretty neato
More than an orion
I actually love marathons they're great
Oh wait
That number of missiles is sourced to page 261 of the Encyclopedia
And the Encyclopedia doesn't mention it
🤔
remote spruce
Situation normal
obsidian thistle
Maybe its tied to specific version
versed helm
As in, it mentions the marathon but not the archers
Yeah, I hope CIA
I hope there's a version of the Halo encyclopedia that has all this
And all the info on the M52B page that was sourced to it
But something makes me doubt it
I am going off 2011 btw
And also for the love of everything saintly
remote spruce
There's the cool new info the encyclopedia mentions
Then there's random new stuff that doesn't add up
versed helm
Can somebody PLEASE
PLEASE tell me what a fusion rocket is
Where it comes from
And why I've never heard of it yet half the ship pages on the Halo encyclopedia say UNSC ships have em
remote spruce
Archer Missiles IV?
versed helm
Har har
remote spruce
If Warfleet doesn't mention it, someone forgot it was a thing
remote spruce
Looks like it's new encyclopedia info
New as in only mentioned there and never again
versed helm
Hey jungle
Want a surprise
Do you want me to surprise and delight you
And make us both laugh most merrily
remote spruce
Sure
versed helm
remote spruce
What could go wrong
versed helm
This page.
I want you to tell me
What page and edition of the Halo Encyclopedia it references
Go on friend
It won't bite
versed helm
Yeah. It's there.
I've gone mad.
One third of human vessels carry a fusion rocket
So someone took that bit of info
Waltzed into Halopedia
And started deciding that this ship has 3 fusion rockets
This ship has 5 fusion rockets
How fun
remote spruce
"time to guess the amount"
remote spruce
3 kinds of incorrect wiki edits:
Making up stuff on purpose to troll/insert fanon
Guessing something and it's just wrong
Got it wrong and didn't know
jovial temple
Wait where does halo reach directly contradict things in fall of reach
I’m a lil over half way through the book and I don’t see anything in particular unless I missed something
Or just not read it yet
versed helm
I mean it's fine
As long as you accept that a lot of the huge engagements in Reach are occurring while RED FLAG preparations are occurring on the other side of the planet
versed helm
Specifically that Covenant threat was entirely contained until Thel's final assault in the book
So even after the Long Night goes down and the backup fleet arrives
That fleet is still contained above a certain area of the planet which infiltration forces based on Szurdock had cleared of ODPs.
And isn't the final assault fleet, as many believe.
Basically, the entire book Battle of Reach is occurring in the last two levels of Reach, not counting Lone Wolf
jovial temple
So in other words, Halsey and Mendez are just casually watching them play ctf while on the other side of the planet reach is being invaded?
Or was that before
i should more carefully read these dates
versed helm
Not quite
You know the bit when all the Spartans are recalled and Keyes gets the Autumn?
That.
versed helm
One of those three
versed helm
Bit of a meme for y'all
As the true purpose of the "Holy Rings" was revealed to him in the wake of the High Prophet of Regret's death, the High Prophet of Truth became more and more paranoid, consolidating his power on High Charity. Suddenly confronted with the reality of the Halos and the Flood, Truth saw his only path as moving forward to activate the Halo Array, destroying the Flood and all sentient life in the galaxy with it.
Halo Encyclopedia
2011 edition
Page 211
I know there's some of you out there who don't hold the Encyclopedia on a particularly high pedestal simply as a source - I know cuz I'm one of them
But that's, uh, that's pretty crazy stuff
versed helm
I still wonder..how will the Precursors make their return?
carmine sleet
You say that as though that's a certainty. I doubt we will see them return honestly
inner basin
I think they will return in some form of media, it’s got potential
versed helm
I wonder if the UNSC even knows about the Precursors
And i still wonder,what other races fought the Forerunners besides ancient humanity and the ancient San'Shyuum?
limpid meadow
ONI knows.
fair hazel
It was nice seeing serin osman in halo 4
inner basin
That was a neat little cameo
obsidian thistle
I wonder if ONI knows of the 2004 AI anomaly and the 2007 Forerunner AI activity.
stable schooner
I Wonder if ONI knows Stealth Elite Majors still don’t have a page or Mention on HaloPedia. Do ONI know about the Ancient San Shyuum-Human Alliance?
obsidian thistle
Stealth Elite Majors havent been mentioned as a rank.
vivid dust
are you referring to the brown Stealth Elites?
stable schooner
But they are a Rank in Halo 2. Might as well not call Ultras in Halo 2 Ultras then.
obsidian thistle
There is a difference.
We have zero idea what "Brown" equals at all.
We can mention the alt colors
Infact thats real easy
stable schooner
I mean Silver is only used by Stealth Elites so I don’t understand what you mean.
obsidian thistle
Well if you can nab the alt color in a Screenshot. That would help me add it to the wiki. :)
limpid meadow
"Do ONI know about the Ancient San Shyuum-Human Alliance?"
Yes
Anything in the Forerunner Saga, ONI knows about (on some level)
scarlet hinge
they also have that one aincient human ship they found in space
humble yacht
where would they have gotten the terminal info?
gilded mason
Though would they know of what was learned on the Rubicon?
limpid meadow
Halo 3 terminals would have to have come from direct exploration of the Ark, or Chief wasn't the only one who accessed the terminals in Halo 3.
@gilded mason Yes. Apparently Spark made a recording of his talk with the Rubicon crew and it was eventually recovered by ONI.
That's revealed in Halo: Renegades
humble yacht
well when you look at Terminal 7, for instance, only 3 people were on that ring: Chief, Johsnon, and Arbiter. Johnson died and Arbiter probably wouldn't sit down with ONI for a debrief
so if it didn't come from Chief or Cortana, it couldn't have come from anyone
limpid meadow
So it must have come from direct exploration
humble yacht
and considering that Cortana never made it back to Earth for a debrief, that would mean if ONI knows about Halo 3 terminal info, it would have had to come from Chief
humble yacht
nobody directly explored Installation 08 other than Chief
limpid meadow
The wreckage was all over the Ark
gilded mason
The terminal somehow still worked after the ring exploded?
humble yacht
that's pretty far fetched that someone would happen upon a still-functioning terminal after the ring exploded into bits and pieces
limpid meadow
Maybe, but Forerunner systems are pretty tough
humble yacht
where is it stated in the lore that ONI knows about info from the various terminals in the games?
limpid meadow
Primordium and Renegades
gilded mason
Couldn't even have fully functioning light bridges in the 343 guilty spark swamps. 😋
stable schooner
That’s a tough Challenge CIA391. Theirs only 2 missions with them in daylight and both require being on Legendary 😨. And use of Thunderstorm for accuracy.
limpid meadow
And when I think about it, it's possible Cortana could have put a copy of the terminal data and Chief's helmet-cam footage into the section of the Dawn that made it back to Earth
Basically, there are ways that ONI could have discovered the terminals.
humble yacht
seems awfully convenient
limpid meadow
That Cortana would think ahead like that? Doesn't seem far-fetched for her.
humble yacht
that cortana would even consider it necessary
limpid meadow
I'm sure she would once the ship started tearing itself apart.
Hell, she wasn't even sure they'd make it.
So leaving records in case they didn't seems logical
humble yacht
wouldn't that be predicated on the assumption that locating each and every terminal is a canonical event?
humble yacht
Well, given the nature of them as easter eggs, especially how far off the beaten path Terminal 7 was, I don't see Chief canonically exploring for Terminals like players tend to do when inhabiting him
limpid meadow
Could have been any number of reasons to explore
But at the moment it doesn't really matter.
Canonically, Chief found the terminals (or the terminal data, whichever), and ONI got their hands on that.
humble yacht
How do we know it was the data in every terminal?
or rather, how do we know that every terminal's data has been seen by ONI?
I could see ONI knowing about the info from some of them
like the ones on the Ark, for instance.
fair hazel
im trying to remember which source talks about the terminals being explored by john
humble yacht
it seems to me the canonical explanation would have to be that the terminals share information and that finding one means you could get all the info found from them within a single game
or the alternative would be that ONI doesn't have info from every terminal
limpid meadow
Both make sense to me
humble yacht
It would make sense if the terminals on a single installation were all canonically connected, and the terminal locations in the games were simply access points
but then there are some terminals, like the Keyes terminal in CE:A, which make no canonical sense how the Forerunners would have recorded that info
limpid meadow
From Primodrium:
“The terminal dialogs may themselves be questionable
Note "terminal", singular. So the single terminal theory could be correct.
humble yacht
how do we know that phrase is in reference to the game terminals and not just some other general terminal within the context of the novel?
I know that as halo fans, we hear "terminal" and immediately think of the game easter eggs, but the term is also just a common word for computer access point
limpid meadow
There are no other terminals in the novel
SCIENCE TEAM LEADER: “The terminal dialogs may themselves be questionable, in the light of this testimony.”
ONI COMMANDER: “Only if there was more than one Didact, and we have no evidence of that.”```is 343 GS the one stating that sentence?
limpid meadow
Context posted
obsidian thistle
I love the modern day parts from that novel.
scarlet hinge
you post em, I'll upload them
stable schooner
Actually let me try again with Blind. Since I notice HUD is definitely a no no.
agile lotus
Would be much easier with Theater.
empty hornet
here is some lore:
carmine sleet
And that lore is?
limpid meadow
Albert Einstein
stable schooner
Is actually a lost Forerunner AI in disguise
limpid meadow
Chips is an easter egg character
versed helm
Well he did apparently survive an upbringing in the continent of Australia
limpid meadow
My (legit) theory: Momma Dubbo had septuplets and named them all "Chips". Most joined the Marines, one joined the Army, and one joined the NMPD.
versed helm
Seems oddly coincidental that an Australian would end up as a New Mombasa police officer
But then again, that's what the game show us huh
limpid meadow
He's there in ODST, so...
Ultimately it's all an easter egg, but my septuplet theory is my current headcanon
versed helm
Well they're all UEG citizens, right?
limpid meadow
Yup
vague scroll
Essentially this is a Private Carmine conondrum?
limpid meadow
Not officially.
The Carmines were each individuals with their own names and (minimal) backstory. Chips is a marine (or soldier, or cop) who shows up across the Bungie Halo titles.
versed helm
I mean, I personally think he's just a generic personality and more of a gameplay element than anything else.
limpid meadow
He is
versed helm
He actually represents a large amount of canonical individuals rather than being an actual character.
But y'know.
Everyone likes being able to name the Marines, I guess.
Makes em look like real lore nerds.
limpid meadow
I don't know about that
I see more enthusiasm around Chips in the more casually story engage than the lore nerds.
versed helm
I mean in my current cynical mood
I am implying that people who actually don't know a terrible amount about Halo latch onto things like that
And think it's super deep lore or something
Despite the enormous plotholes such a fixation creates surrounding 04
And potentially 05
And for me personally, it's also a thing like the Reach conundrum
As someone who has a good deal of respect for universe continuity, I don't appreciate how I now feel a little invalidated when I play a female noble Six because 343's gone in on having a male Six.
In the same way, when Chips Dubbo or whoever dies, and assuming he is actually a person, it's unsatisfying because that's an individual who shouldn't
Even in scenarios where he's impossible to save
S'too stressful, man. I already beat myself up about Marine deaths cuz I feel like it's un-Chiefly to let it happen.
Though I do accept that this is all incredibly self-indulgent preferential pedantics.
obsidian thistle
Well... about that
It was always a Bungie thing the Male Default Noble Six.
343i just kept it up.
versed helm
Huh - I don't actually remember definitive Bungie sources specifying that Six was male.
limpid meadow
Unfortunately 😦
versed helm
I remember plenty of male images
But they've got to represent Six somehow in marketing, right?
But it's very pointed to me that Six wasn't on the cover, or in that special edition statue.
limpid meadow
They still had a canon version of him in mind, though.
And that unfortunately was kept intact by 343.
versed helm
Sadness.
limpid meadow
Indeed.
versed helm
To be honest, I think they missed a trick in Warfleet when they gave us a cutaway of the Amber and not the Dawn.
limpid meadow
Concerning the hyperion missile?
versed helm
I mean, the FuD is very iconic and it could've acted as a kind of final solidification of its classic design.
And yeah, partially concerning that.
And also the apparent 50 archer pods that an old Waypoint bulletin cites.
Compared to a paris-class's 26
gilded mason
In Amber Clad is bae though
versed helm
And a stalwart's 16
stoic hamlet
Oversized or regular pods?
versed helm
I think it depends on the configuration of the delivery system.
Which I'm not sure about
But paris-class vessels have five tubes per launcher, which feed from 30-missile pods.
So presumably if we can discern what configuration a Charon's launchers are in from the model we can discern what pods it takes
Halopedia thinks 30, though.
stoic hamlet
Hmm
versed helm
Though granted
This info does all come from a source which treats the FuD in Halo 4 as a retcon of the charon-class
An old Halo Bulletin
Specifically that one, if the link works for you.
Personally, here's my take.
Gimme a sec.
stoic hamlet
Take your time
versed helm
On page 259 of the 2011 ed Halo Encyclopedia, there's an article on "frigates". It treats all frigates as the same thing, and collectively states that they possess 480 archer missiles. Now, 30 missiles per pod there gives you 16, and 24 gives you 20.
16 is the same number of archer pods (of the M58 variety) as the In Amber Clad carries, according to Warfleet.
The illustration given in the Encyclopedia is of a paris-class vessel, which we know from TFoR can carry 26 30-missile pods.
But ignoring that, I think it's a decent interpretation that both light frigates carry 16 pods of 30.
And 30-missile M58 pods are universally used in UNSC frigates.
That's my personal interpretation. Though I would like it to be corroborated from an earlier version of the Encyclopedia, before the paris-class was a thing.
Because I'd like to know if 480 archer missiles was thought up with the charon-class in mind.
Or more specifically, the charon and the stalwart with the at-the-time assumption that the charon was a retcon of the stalwart, I presume, just as the 2011 edition sees the paris as a retcon of both.
stable schooner
I just want to bring up the fact that the Grunts are Allied to the Brutes on the mission High Charity. I think Grunts as Enemies in Halo 3 was fair even back then.
remote spruce
wat
versed helm
My personal interpretation would be that it's inaccurate to say that "the Grunts were allied to the Brutes". It's more accurate to look at things on an individual basis - units of Grunts that had been assigned to Brute officers likely had no clear reason (from their perspective) not to follow orders, especially under threat from their large and intimidating commanders.
The same almost certainly goes for Grunts under Elites.
On the other hand, if they didn't have a clear chain of command they probably would've buggered off.
gilded mason
It's more accurate to look at things on an individual basis
Ye. Generalization of species ain't no fun.
gilded mason
lol
stable schooner
No I mean even in Halo 2 you seen Grunts following Brute orders. So assuming all Grunts would be on our side in Halo 3 would be unfounded .
Though Uprising shows their was Grunts who refused to Follow the Brutes and hid/ Cowered instead on the opposite side of the Spectrum.
stoic hamlet
Assuming they wouldn’t have some on our side in Halo 3 is also dumb, to be fair
stable schooner
Of course
stable schooner
@stoic hamlet In your opinion do you think any Elite Councilor would have still been on High Charity and didn’t or choose not to go to the rings surface? Not counting that glitched out Elite
stoic hamlet
Uhh....idk, maybe? I suppose it depends on the particular Elite.
gilded mason
Halopedia says, at least, Duru 'Scoahamee wasn't on Delta Halo at the time.
stable schooner
Thanks Ostral I feel more confident in my plans now.
scenic garnet
Grunts are elites friends, and are not power hungry or viscous like everyone who continues following the prophets once they declare holy war against all life across the Universe
Thus they stay with elites who themselves realign with the humans, because of the great betrayal by the prophets
teal knot
Not really friends, more of a respect
stable schooner
Elites and Hunters are friends. Grunts serve anyone who take care of them. Only Grunts I respect are the Spec Op Grunts.
versed helm
I mean, I don't think hunters really engage with that level of social thought.
And that's kinda messed-up to say about grunts, considering their history.
teal knot
Unggoy aren't always the weaker race though
Just look at <I forget the name> from Shadow of Intent, the one commanding a troop of Sangheili rangers
stable schooner
Well of course but they do form Bonds and understand loyalty. I mean it’s true though.
versed helm
I killed an awful lot of hunters in Halo 3 for the statement "Elites and Hunters are friends" to be universally true.
stable schooner
Stolt has my Respect as a true warrior.
sonic prawn
stable schooner
You killed double the number of Elite Allied Hunters Though.
versed helm
The simple truth is that both Elites and Brutes were surrounded by complete military apparatuses consisting of all other races of the former Covenant.
stable schooner
Halo 3 had the least amount of Hunters by Far just saying
versed helm
The soldiers of those races were not there by choice.
stable schooner
Yeah but the lore says Hunters mostly sided with Elites
versed helm
Granted, there was the hunter pair in Halo 2 who fight alongside the Arbiter.
stable schooner
And the pair trapped with the Councilors
versed helm
Also, what lore might I ask?
That says that Hunters primarily sided with the Elites.
stable schooner
Bucks line in New Blood for one.
We had this whole discussion about it a few days ago involving Toa Freak and the majority of Post War lore Supports Hunters mostly siding with the Elites. I think the fact we never fight any Brute Allied Hunters in Halo 2 is evidence enough.
versed helm
We do as Chief though, don't we?
stable schooner
Not in Halo 2
versed helm
Isn't there a pair in one of the steps leading up to a balcony which are allied with Brutes?
Not the Mausoleum, of course.
One of the early on pairs.
Before you use a grav-lift the first time.
stable schooner
Every Pair is Allied to the Elites. Gravemind is Elites, Hunters and Grunts vs Brutes, Jackals, Drones And Grunts.
versed helm
I'll take your word for it
Really, I'm just being pedantic because of my usual stance on species-generic statements, particularly when it comes to motivation
Also the statement "Only Grunts I respect are the Spec Op Grunts" is pretty 😔
stable schooner
Once the Schism begins we encounter 11 Hunters in Halo 2 as Arbiter and Master Chief. All are Allied to the Elites.
buoyant sigil
Off topic but Do we know an estimate for covenant casualties during the invasion the new Mombasa/ earth? I haven’t seen any sources and am just really curious.
versed helm
Their casualties were pretty catastrophic in the early stages.
versed helm
Their fleet was torn up by ODPs, boarding parties were repelled off the cairo, Chief and the Marines regrouped and blitzed them in the city and took down a scarab.
CAS-class ships have a compliment of about 40,000, according to Halopedia
buoyant sigil
I mean obv during the opening space battle we see the covenant and UNSC space fleet just going at it during halo 2
versed helm
So uh, I'm guessing a few thousand, plus the losses from the fleet.
And then in Truth's second wave things got nasty for the UNSC and fighting was attrition-orientated with lots of orbital bombardment, so it's hard to say.
buoyant sigil
And in ODST we saw the grueling covenant campaign in new Mombasa until the city was glassed
stable schooner
That’s more Hunters then we encounter in all of Halo 3 which is 8. Yeah Romeo just needs to shut his mouth.
I mean what even were the UNSC casualties against Regrets fleet. Pretty minimal it seems.
versed helm
Quite a few frigates and 2 ODPs 🤷
Plus a lot of groundside defenders in the initial assault.
buoyant sigil
Seems like the UNSC got totally destroyed after the initial stages
I mean the home fleet was totally smashed
stable schooner
Yeah but Apparently Truth had a way bigger Fleet. Let’s not forget Regret lost 14 of his 15 ships plus the only other CAS Class Assault Ship
buoyant sigil
But do we know of any ODPs on mars? And did they contribute resources and manpower during the battles on earth?
I’m curious about the ODPs because of high charity flying so close to it when gravemind was traveling to the Ark
gilded mason
Aparently Mars was able to delay the Earth invasion with their forces, but the UNSC presence on the planet ultimately got destroyed
stable schooner
This is actually making me wonder why Truths Fleet was so much Larger then Regrets.
gilded mason
Because Regret wasn't expecting any resistance
He had no idea he was gonna encounter humans
stable schooner
I know that So why not call the rest of his forces.
fair hazel
truth had a planned out attack on earth
Blue team and crew destroyed hundreds of covenatn ships
Regret had his personal fleet jump as soon as they discoevered the location of erde-tyrene and more on the ark
stable schooner
But that was Truths fleet destroyed in First Strike wasn’t it? How did Truth get a Fleet soooooo much larger then all of Regrets Ships. For that matter how are Covenant forces even divided among the Prophets?
gilded mason
Because the Covenant is really big
stable schooner
Breh
gilded mason
It's the truth. 😋
fair hazel
Covenant did not have a unified military
they had different ministries
That was not "truth"s fleet
it was a fleet truth gathered there
stable schooner
I don’t get why Regret wouldn’t call the rest of his fleet to Delta Halo and not Truth and Mercy forces.
buoyant sigil
Do we know the full scale of the covenant military? like it seems as if they just had a never ending supply of manpower and ships
gilded mason
Do we know the full scale of the covenant military?
Not really. Though they've had thousands of years to expand their reach. They're gonna have a huge amount of resources at their disposal.
stable schooner
I’m just saying it feels like Saitama compared to the Pillarmen in regards to Regret compared to the other Prophets.
buoyant sigil
thicc
versed helm
Well strictly speaking, Regret didn't expect resistance when he came to Earth.
buoyant sigil
How could he not have known?
versed helm
There's nothing to say he couldn't have marshalled a fleet of epic proportions.
stable schooner
I know that I mean once he got to Delta Halo
versed helm
Because he found out from a Forerunner luminary, @buoyant sigil.
About Earth's location, specifically.
It did not have data on humanity, at least that they could access.
Only Earth, the portal to the Ark and the Halo array.
buoyant sigil
But didn’t the prophets know that the forerunners had plans for modern humanity?
Like passing the mantle and all?
versed helm
In a fit of fervour, Regret took all the ships he had to hand - including multiple CAS-class vessels, it should be said - and jumped to what he expected to be a random uninhabited planet.
And no, they only knew about the reclamation/reclaimer error.
buoyant sigil
Ah
versed helm
Some Prophets seem to have figured out more than others.
buoyant sigil
My bad
stable schooner
They thought Humans were Foreunners Left behind basically but not about Earth.
versed helm
Regret was absolutely completely ignorant.
buoyant sigil
Go sit in ur floaty chair
versed helm
The old Encyclopedia explicitly said he did.
Like, I posted that the other day
it was a pretty big source
Halo Encyclopedia, 2011 version
fair hazel
It’s high charity that came to delta halo
buoyant sigil
Yep but didn’t all three high prophets know?
stable schooner
I don’t get what you mean Erick
versed helm
As the true purpose of the "Holy Rings" was revealed to him in the wake of the High Prophet of Regret's death, the High Prophet of Truth became more and more paranoid, consolidating his power on High Charity. Suddenly confronted with the reality of the Halos and the Flood, Truth saw his only path as moving forward to activate the Halo Array, destroying the Flood and all sentient life in the galaxy with it.
Halo Encyclopedia
2011 edition
Page 211
fair hazel
Someone said why didn’t regret call hisdleet
versed helm
And Patricc, I don't know if you're cottoning on here
All the prophets knew was the simple reclamation/reclaimer mistranslation
fair hazel
The prophets kept things from each other
versed helm
Some prophets may have known more but Regret totally did not
Because he was zealous and foolish
But a good bloke to Elites
fair hazel
Regret was the youngest and most impulsive. He likes to be in the action
stable schooner
Yeah but Cortana says Regret calls for aid from the other Prophets. If he had more fleets to Spare why would he call for their help.
buoyant sigil
Regret just jumped the gun
versed helm
And I think he dealt with the reclamation/reclaimer revelation by more or less burying his head in the sand
Pretending like it was all part of the Forerunner's plan
A test
versed helm
Hell, they all probably thought that.
Or tried to think it.
But I am a pretty adamant Truth truth truther
fair hazel
Something as big as a halo should be called to the rest of the covenant
stable schooner
But the whole point was to be sneaky about it.
buoyant sigil
sneak
versed helm
He probably planned to message the rest of the Covenant as soon as he dropped in at Earth.
Which he did, except he was calling for help instead cuz super MACs
fair hazel
More like it was to act quickly
versed helm
Simple oversight would not be a plot hole in this context
stable schooner
He didn’t want the other Prophets knowing. I don’t think he would have informed the whole Covenant for help if he had extra Fleets sitting around. I think after Halo Wars he was just that much weaker then the rest of the Prophets
versed helm
I mean, it's 21 years on
And he had multiple assault carriers
Just very few escort vessels
Like, he had the core of quite a scary fleet, really
stable schooner
2 Assault Carriers
buoyant sigil
Still terrifying
His fleet would have been extremely powerful if he had a number of smaller ships like corvettes
stable schooner
I wouldn’t call 15 Ships with 2 only being Assault Carriers terrifying in regards to Earth Home Fleet.
versed helm
He also had 13 CCS class battlecruisers.
buoyant sigil
Like looters said he had a good foundation for a fleet
versed helm
Which can obliterate a marathon
Like, what he had wasn't a fleet so much as a guard detail
stable schooner
I mean The Autumn shows a UNSC vessel can thrash CSS Battle Cruisers
versed helm
"Thrash?"
With a lot of plot armour
And Cortana
And her plot armour
And Keyes and Chief with all their plot armour
stable schooner
Still happened though
buoyant sigil
Well in regrets defense I don’t think much of anything could have truly gotten through the ODP array around earth
gilded mason
Wasn't the Autumn specially fitted or something, and had exceptional personnel?
buoyant sigil
Yep
versed helm
I mean did she actually get four kills
Or was she anticipating that she'd be able to
buoyant sigil
I thought it was like one of the most advanced ships at reach
versed helm
Before the MAC gun was destroyed
buoyant sigil
Cause you know, operation red flag and all
versed helm
Besides, the Covenant weren't trying to destroy the Autumn so much as capture her
Like, if it was just one CCS vs the Autumn, that's GG
With intent to kill, that is.
buoyant sigil
Carrying a large group of spartan II’s is kinda a big deal
stable schooner
I’m just saying theirs no way Regrets fleet could take on the Earth Home Fleet and Win. I stand by the Belief Regret was just a Trash Panda.
versed helm
But the Autumn was primarily evasively manoeuvring and fighting off boarders
buoyant sigil
So it would make sense for the autumn to have the best tech
versed helm
Byzantine, you're the trash panda
Because you don't seem to realize that Regret didn't know Earth was defended
And also didn't know a man would fly into one of his ships with an antimatter charge
buoyant sigil
Well even if they knew getting through earths ODP array takes a lot of fire power
stable schooner
Oh so that’s how it is. I have repeatedly said I knew Regret jumped the gun.
buoyant sigil
How many ODPs did earth have? Like 400???
versed helm
After totally ruining his really quite tactically astute plan to have all the ODPs in a cluster boarded
Like if the most dangerous entity in the known universe was not on Cairo
He'd probably have been fine
stable schooner
Not ReallyWithout Chief killing his 1 other Assault carrier he only had a total of 2 Ships left.
buoyant sigil
I don’t know man, the UNSC would have beat the first fleet regardless of if chief was there or not IMO I understand the UNSC only like 67 ships but the covenant didn’t have that many either
I think the biggest difference would be the destruction of Cairo station
stable schooner
Which would Hurt the UNSC chain of command but Regret still loses.
buoyant sigil
But the UNSC must have had experience with covenant boarding ODPs before
So once a hole was torn I’m sure they wouldn’t just leave the hole there
versed helm
I mean, potentially you're underestimating just how much firepower a CAS has
I mean, did you see it obliterate the poor marathon?
strong pelican
?
versed helm
The UNSC did not have many marathons left at that point in the war
A second CAS could easily have changed the ground game
strong pelican
Mmmmhmmm
versed helm
That's 40,000 more troops
stable schooner
And darn it until I see evidence otherwise Regret was by far the weakest Prophet. Your underestimating the Fact we know he already lost 13 of his 15 Ships
buoyant sigil
we’ve all run the simulations they’re tough, but they ain’t invincible
versed helm
Several objections
First, "weakest". Why must we use adjectives that belong in some kind of DragonBalls versus scale.
Second
You remember Mercy?
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
I mean, Regret had a pretty small personal fleet I guess
But Mercy had 1 ship
His chair
buoyant sigil
Lmao
stable schooner
Mercy was tied in with Truths dealings he doesn’t count.
gilded mason
He's hard-headed.
strong pelican
😂😂😂
buoyant sigil
Like how did his skull not just implode on impact
versed helm
There was a crazy Russian man here not so long ago who thought that Prophets were naturally stronger than Spartans
stable schooner
That’s pure Gameplay as the number changes on Difficulty. If your not joking that is.
versed helm
My headcanon is that the first punch probably ended it
gilded mason
Anyway, I'm guessing Regret's energy shield helped absorb some impact.
buoyant sigil
Well didn’t the sanshyuum have a special group in the covenant military?
versed helm
Follow up strikes were just confirming the kill
buoyant sigil
I know we don’t have any info at all on them but still
stable schooner
He takes like 3 punches on Easy.
versed helm
I mean, you also might as well have asked why Chief was punching so slowly
buoyant sigil
He was going easy
strong pelican
Ye
versed helm
Chief smacked an ODST like seven times in the face before the dude had a chance to feel it
In TFoR
Without armour
gilded mason
I mean, you also might as well have asked why Chief was punching so slowly
The weight of his existance was catching up to him and he was having a crisis.
versed helm
Why don't we all pretend that Chief was actually punching him extremely fast
buoyant sigil
He wanted regret to suffer
gilded mason
wude
versed helm
And he delivered those impacts in quick succession before the Prophet's head evaporated
buoyant sigil
Thanos snapped his head away
gilded mason
Well didn’t the sanshyuum have a special group in the covenant military?
Ya mean the Prelates?
buoyant sigil
Yesss
stable schooner
So tell me Looters how could Regret have destroyed Earths 300 plus defense Platforms.
buoyant sigil
Even tho we don’t know anything about them other than their existence
strong pelican
🤦🏽♂️
gilded mason
Ye, punched straight through.
stable schooner
You disputed me saying he had no chance of destroying Earths Fleet so please enlighten me.
versed helm
Oh, with the moncton-class (which aren't the Reach ones) the ODPs don't use ground-based generators.
versed helm
They have stacked power cells and I suspect that they might be a less powerful iteration of SMAC
strong pelican
Mmmmhmmmm
simple portal
did someone say reach?
buoyant sigil
Y tf would earth use a less powerful SMAC for their orbital defense?
gilded mason
Oh, with the moncton-class (which aren't the Reach ones) the ODPs don't use ground-based generators.
This page implies otherwise
https://www.halopedia.org/Orbital_defense_generator
buoyant sigil
Jesus Christ y’all are fast af at finding this stuff
spiral jewel
Is it safe to assume that the UNSC Say My Name (a marathon class heavy Cruiser) was either still in active service during the events of 4 and 5 or was decommissioned sometime between 2552 and 2557
buoyant sigil
Was probably decommissioned but idk
versed helm
@stable schooner I'll be absolutely clear in my stance - I take back anything I said previously that doesn't fall in line with this.
I believe that the forces Regret had on hand were sufficient to fend off the fleet - specifically Admiral Harper's fleet. In order to make landfall and dig in until reinforcements could arrive, all he would have to do - and attempted to do - is clear a path through the ODP grid, blow through, set up over the city. At that point, the fleet engagement is effectively over, unless the UNSC wanted to lob SMACs at one of their own cities, if the Earth defence grid even works that way.
buoyant sigil
Marathons weren’t exactly the best especially during post war
stable schooner
See Now that makes sense Looters
versed helm
I believe the last carrier was spared direct engagement from orbital assets because it was being held for Chief to board - that said, the second CAS could easily have dealt more damage to the defence grid and deployed any number of additional troops before a gun got a shot on it.
If Chief hadn't neutralized the second CAS when he did, it's likely Regret might have had the resources to prolong the ground game until his reinforcements arrived.
buoyant sigil
Certainly a possibility
versed helm
Which they did pretty rapidly after his ship departed.
buoyant sigil
But at the beginning of ODST wasn’t the ODST squad gonna land on regrets ship? Couldn’t they have done the same with the other CAS?
stable schooner
Now what’s to stop the reinforcement fleet from wiping out Regret and his forces.
buoyant sigil
Time
remote spruce
Ran out of nukes /s
stable schooner
What does that even mean Patricc. That fleet has enough power to stomp Regrets two Carriers.
I mean the Reinforcement fleet from Truth
stable schooner
As we know in ODST Truths secret fleet arrived immediately after and wiped Regrets remaining forces in the city. It can definitely take outs Regrets 2 partially depleted Carriers.
buoyant sigil
Yea definitely
stable schooner
Regret is done for either way imo.
buoyant sigil
Yep
stable schooner
Infact the only way I see Regret Surviving is if somehow the Amber Clad doesn’t make its way to Delta Halo.
buoyant sigil
Well if chiefs drop pod was just a little bit more back then regret would have been ok
gilded mason
Truth probably would've had him meet an 'accident' soon enough.
buoyant sigil
Chief would have been in with the fishies
stable schooner
Yeah honestly I think Regret was done for as soon as he decided to go to Earth accidentally unprepared. Though Chief being stuck in New Mombasa during ODST is an interesting alternative.
versed helm
Yep.
Contact Harvest is the best Halo book.
As soon as the story gets to the Minister of Fortitude it kicks well off
Everything's sorta becoming clear to me now
remote spruce
I like to think Jenkins got promotions then lost all of them when he transferred to UNSC
versed helm
Or he continually busted himself down so he could stay in Johnson's unit.
I mean, I haven't finished my re-read yet but he certainly seems to have a passion for being a sharpshooter and presumably any life he had outside the military got glassed with Harvest.
There's a lot that could be going on inside his head.
versed helm
UNSC Fleet Marine.
That's what Johnson calls himself in Chapter Ten.
Fleet Marine.
A relic from a pre-UNSC Army era, methinks.
Staten probably believed the UNSC would have a structure like the ME Alliance Navy, with the Marines being a subset of the Fleet and not a distinct branch.
I wonder if the term "Fleet Marine" can be assigned any canonical meaning these days
Or if it's another "United Earth Space Corps".
Which may have been someone severely goofing the UNSC's name, come to think of it.
stoic hamlet
Could be that “Fleet Marine” refers to those expressly trained and geared towards naval actions. The 21st Black Daggers, and the marines in the final level of Reach, for example.
At least if we wanted to give it a canonical latch on now.
versed helm
What is the United Earth Space Corps anyways?
versed helm
What are those weird things that shoot beams of light into the air in Halo CE?
Those so called "Beam emitters?"
Anyone?
feral perch
They’re pylons that probably form the firing of the Halo array. I think, anyway.
Don’t quote me on that
limpid meadow
They're generally known as beam emitters, but their functions aren't known.
buoyant sigil
Didn’t we see at the end of halo 2 one of them emit a thiccer beam into the middle of the ring?
Which somehow had a correlation with the remote activation of the entire array?
So perhaps it’s used as a sort of communication with the other halo rings Incase they are destroyed or damaged
But idk just a theory
limpid meadow
We saw the Control Room shoot a beam into the giant energy ball, but not a beam emitter.
buoyant sigil
Maybe the beam emitters are used as communication for flood containment?
Like each one has a sort of radius and if it detects flood life forms it communicates with the monitor?
versed helm
Or maybe they're part of the Halo's teleportation grid
buoyant sigil
Again completely unfounded theory but still
stoic hamlet
that or they’re like, siphoning power somewhere
buoyant sigil
Did we see any beam emitters in the flood containment zone on delta halo?
I mean I know the control room is there in the containment zone which could explain that
versed helm
IIRC..aren't all Forerunner technology powered by vacuum energy
buoyant sigil
I believe so
versed helm
Speaking of Delta Halo,i still wonder,who built those stone ruins that we see in Halo 2?
buoyant sigil
I think the forerunners just had a fascination with ancient architecture but I’m not certain
versed helm
I'm betting that they were built by a species that was housed on the Halo during the Conservation Measure
buoyant sigil
Perhaps it was a species after the reseeding had occurred
limpid meadow
It's most likely ancient Forerunner ruins that were moved to the planet
Or Forerunner constructions of some kind moved there
buoyant sigil
I mean idk if there are any sources that go in depth about those ruins on delta halo or even talk about it
stoic hamlet
Could be another species entirely as well
Some unknown species survived by their structures alone.
limpid meadow
I doubt that
Cortana notes that the ruins where built around, as if revered
Let me see if I can find the exact quote
buoyant sigil
Well we don’t know exactly how many sentient species were conserved
versed helm
IIRC..didn't it say that at least 123 technologically capable races were indexed
limpid meadow
You know, I think the Forerunners built these new structures around the old, to protect them, to honor them. Pure speculation, mind you. I'd need to make a thorough survey to be sure.
buoyant sigil
However we have no idea if any of them have gone extinct
limpid meadow
I wish I had more time to decipher these inscriptions. The Forerunners revere this place, that much is clear. But was it a temple, or a university... I can't say.
buoyant sigil
Either by covenant holy war or other things
stoic hamlet
Forerunners don’t seem the type to revere anything, at least from what I recall.
Cortana’s comment isn’t hard fact, as well, it’s as she says, speculation.
limpid meadow
So I don't think they were made by another species
limpid meadow
It is
buoyant sigil
Goes back to my point earlier I made about how they had a thing with old architecture
limpid meadow
I still wish Installation 07 had been Installation 05. Making the ruins Human
versed helm
If i recall correctly..didn't GS describe a number of space-faring races visiting Alpha Halo prior to the arrival of the Covenant and the UNSC
buoyant sigil
Yes I think he did
versed helm
So maybe something like that happened to Delta Halo
buoyant sigil
Halo 2s conversations of the universe Manual thing had a quote about that
buoyant sigil
About meddlers on installation 04? Yea there was
limpid meadow
God I hate that term
limpid meadow
Meddlers, yeah
The name implies they are a single entity, and that they are purposefully doing something
versed helm
I still wonder who the so called "meddlers" are...because that to me is the biggest mystery in the Halo universe in the last 8 years
limpid meadow
Regarding Delta Halo: new structures were build around the ruins, meaning they were there since the Halo was made, implying the ruins aren't even native to the ring, but were moved there.
buoyant sigil
Probably just another technologically capable species we haven’t encountered
limpid meadow
There are no "meddlers"
versed helm
I also wonder if they're still even around
limpid meadow
There are just other species out there that we haven't encounters that have happened to encounter Forerunner constructs
buoyant sigil
Well does the covenant have any notes about species we haven’t seen?
versed helm
The Covenant fringe
buoyant sigil
Other than that
Like has the covenant had any brief encounters with other species or even another multi-species organization?
limpid meadow
Not that we know
versed helm
I also wonder if the Covenant were fighting another enemy besides the UNSC
buoyant sigil
I’m sure they have
limpid meadow
But this is the exact problem I have with "meddlers". It gets people thinking that there are species out there with some kind of agenda.
buoyant sigil
But the UNSC was by far the biggest “threat” they had encountered
Well the covenant had an agenda as much as the UNSC did
It’s not that surprising to say that another zealous group exists in the halo galaxy
Perhaps one even larger than the covenant
limpid meadow
That's beyond speculation though. That's basically "what if" territory.
The evidence for other aliens just points to there being other aliens advanced enough to be space faring, and happening upon Forerunner relics
buoyant sigil
Now we don’t know this, and considering the created kinda sorta took over everything we know about and still concentrated their forced around the Orion belt
Meaning maybe there just isn’t one
All speculation tho but it seems as if Cortana knew of bigger fish to fry she would fry em.
stable schooner
You know since I see a lot of confusion around this I just want to say just because the Honor Guards stoped protecting the High Prophets doesn’t mean they were disbanded.
humble yacht
Honor Guard is a title. When the Brutes were given the title, the former Elite Honor Guards were, as an organization, disbanded, and probably went back to whatever organization they were in before being selected for the Honor Guard
stable schooner
Then why are the Elite Councilors guarded by Elite Honor Guards in Broken Circle and why do we encounter Multiple Honor Guards on Gravemind. I see no proof they were disbanded as a unit but merely loss their role of protecting the High Prophets
humble yacht
because some may have decided to say "screw the prophets" and stay together to guard Elite Councilors
the prophets even called it an exchange of hats
stable schooner
We only see the Guards of the High Prophets replaced that isn’t evidence that the Honor Guards were fully disbanded to me. The fact all the Elite Councilors had Elite Honor Guards still before they were ambushed by the Brutes suggests otherwise.
humble yacht
That requires assumptions that the same Elites were always guarding the prophets, and that there was no shifts in who an Honor Guard would be guarding at any given moment
which wouldn't really make sense, as the prophets would be under 24-hr protection but a single Honor Guard cannot physically stay up forever with no time for rest or break
so there had to be shifts
all we saw was the current shift of Elites getting replaced by Brutes
stable schooner
The Prophets would have their own units of Guards that would take shifts of course. Those are the ones we saw get replaced in Sacred Icon.
humble yacht
any honor guard Elite you saw after the change of guard lacked the helmet
like the light of sanghelios
but that unit wasn't present in the scene with the exchange
stable schooner
Not on Grave mind and that’s only the ones guarding the Prophets
A Light Of Sanghelios is shown losing his helmet to Brutes in that Cutscene.
stable schooner
I’m just saying we can only say for sure the Elites protecting the High Prophets got replaced. Not the ones guarding the Elite Councilors and all other Prophets
humble yacht
As for the Honor Guard Elite you encounter with his helmet on during Gravemind, at this point in time, the Schism had already begun, with Brutes, Drones, and Jackals attacked Elites
So that could have just been a case of Honor Guards who hadn't been personally relieved running away before their helmets/dressings got taken
remote spruce
I'm glad Honor Guards aren't just Elites that protect Prophets
stable schooner
Their was a significant amount of time though between the Changing of the Guard and Arbiter and the Elites getting betrayed.
humble yacht
The only issue I'd see with Brutes replacing all Elites throughout the entire Honor Guard would be in the case of an Elite Councilor, who'd probably refuse to be guarded by Brutes on principle
but then, they'd also threatened to resign from the High Council, and could have very well lost their right to an official Honor Guard
stable schooner
Broken Circle Confirmed the Elite Councilor we’re still guarded by the Elite Honor Guards And they never got that chance to resign cause they got betrayed by the Brutes while waiting for the ring to be fired. We also know their was still at least 1 Councilor on High Charity at the same time.
humble yacht
Isn't that part of Broken Circle told from the point of view of a Sangheli sympathist?
stable schooner
yeah, Prophet Of Clarity If I’m not mistaken.
gilded mason
Broken Circle Confirmed the Elite Councilor we’re still guarded by the Elite Honor Guards
Do you know the quote?
humble yacht
Who actually befriended some Elites and refused to hurt them