They're a little brutal
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
humble yacht
You can read up on exactly what content leads to ratings by searching the games up on the ESRB website
carmine sleet
I don't see why you care so much about the rating, Looters, it's not like Halo suddenly having a different rating makes the game better or worse all of a sudden
remote spruce
and sometimes those descriptions forget to mention Halo has some mild language
versed helm
But in Australia, Halo 4 is M-rated, which is actually less than MA15+
It's like
The ESRB was literally a concession the games industry gave to the federal government at the time during the whole violence in videogames debate.
A weird PG+ really.
Like this is for kids who are together, emotionally speaking.
“Regulate yourselves or we’ll regulate you.” Was essentially what kickstarted the ESRB as a thing.
stable schooner
I liked Halo 2s level of Blood, each body can potentially have the same blood as CE but you have to really go at it with anything not a Hunter.
versed helm
The ESRB has always been private and they don’t adhere to any government, therefore they themselves can choose how they rate games.
I'd say the splatter off bullet impacts is actually greater in Halo 2
But explosions are less mental
stable schooner
Hmm true fair point
versed helm
Like you can really paint the ground if you're shooting at enemies from above
I’m not sure how the PEGI system or how Australia’s rating system works tho
humble yacht
they're different. Australia tends to be more strict with its ratings and what it lets into the country
versed helm
Not anymore, necessarily, since we got R18+
I actually really like our rating system now
G, PG, M, MA, R - M is weird, but it allows things that are fully-focused on violence to be accepted as long as there's no gore or nothing too horrific
Like Halo 1 and 2 were MA, but Halo 3 is M
I mean, my parents never cared much, but I had friends who were allowed to jump in at 3 because it was M and not MA
Though I mean I could be talking nonsense - I was under the impression that in the US it went G, PG, M and then R though
And the US's M is like our MA and PG is a little more lenient
humble yacht
G, PG, PG-13, and R are movie ratings
games have a separate system
E, E10+, T, M, AO
humble yacht
movie rating system is older
versed helm
Everyone, Everyone who is above 10, Teens, Mature, Adults only
Actually it's fine
Ours is probably less straightforward
humble yacht
movie ratings also have the rare NC-17
versed helm
Why is that a thing
Which distinguish between 17 and 18
What difference will one year make
humble yacht
An R rated movie will allow in children with a parent
NC-17 will not allow in children under any circumstance
versed helm
Oh I get it
The most confusing thing about our rating system is that nobody has any idea what MA stands for
Mature, obviously
But is it audiences or adults
The first is ridiculous and the second is obvious
It's probably audiences
But then the implication is that they're recommending that you only consume the media in audiences
storm flume
audults
versed helm
In case you need to hold hands with someone
But I mean, since we actually got the R rating which is our adult rating it must be audiences, right?
And you're not an adult at 15
Huh, maybe it wasn't so confusing
OH WAIT LOL
It's Mature Accompanied xD
See, it is confusing!
versed helm
I assume so
stable schooner
Not to interrupt this enlightening conversation but back to my original question clearly the answer is Corporeal Lovik is a DramaQueen.
versed helm
He's probably dead and Dietz was wrong
But if you really want as much of The Flood as possible to be canon
Which I wouldn't in your shoes because it really messes with your idea about canonical Marine personalities
Then yes, he was a drama queen
Unless... It wasn't Lovik on the radio?
But another corporal?
stable schooner
I mean this is the same situation as Johnson in Attack Of the Control Room cause ingame it’s clearly different Marines but the Flood says otherwise.
Voiced by two different people and the Dubbo voiced Marine never calls himself Lovik in CE
versed helm
Well Halopedia thinks that Dubbo is the one that spoke
And Lovik was standing around somewhere
versed helm
Let's just say Lovik's a goner then, huh?
Halopedia ain't always right
I'm working on correcting a bunch of errors right now actually.
On the ODST BDU page
And I've ironed out severe problems on the M52B body armour, 90mm SBHV and S1 canister shell pages before
stable schooner
Personally I think so but Flood establishes them as the same Marine and everyone finds the Flood as the undebateable Canon Version Of things.
versed helm
Oh yeah and on the M118 page
Oh god no
The Flood is not undebatable canon
Anyone who tells you that is absolutely mad
The Flood has been completely ruined by successive lore
I suspect my own version might be out of date but there's references to ODSTs jettisoning from their pods before landing
There's Scorpions being noted as having 105mm guns
Fireteam Raven basically confirmed a kinda streamlined interpretation of what happened at Alpha Base
It's madness
Oh yeah, there's ODSTs needing to use thermal goggles
I'm sure other stuff would come to mind if I gave it a bit
I mean just to be clear, I absolutely adore The Flood. I read it before I read TFoR, and I love the military tone - really informed by Dietz's own military experience.
But some stuff just doesn't gel with modern Halo.
stable schooner
I swear one of these days someone’s gonna come up on this channel and tell me the Zealot on Uprising isn’t Canon.
versed helm
I mean I don't see why he wouldn't be
At that point he's just a skilled Elite warrior, protecting his comrades from a vicious betrayal
If he survived, whatever happened after relating to his beliefs and his status as a zealot could easily be made to fit
remote spruce
"step aside bro i'm taking this pod"
stable schooner
Nah someone will be like it’s just Gameplay man it’s not Canon that could have been any Elite. Dialogue set pieces don’t count
versed helm
I mean obviously you've got to be discerning if you don't want to go insane
But there's no reason to question any of that
stable schooner
I once saw someone say the Spec Op Elite doesn’t know what’s he talking about.
remote spruce
as in?
stable schooner
That he doesn’t know what a Zealot is
versed helm
I mean, on what basis do these people question that a Zealot was there?
stable schooner
I guess Ingame Cutscenes aren’t good enough for some people. He’s even called a Zealot in the files.
humble yacht
well
versed helm
But like why don't they want him to be a zealot
humble yacht
sometimes cutscenes are wrong
stable schooner
Cause as I said before some think Zealot is a Rank not a Class
versed helm
Doesn't matter how strong his faith in the Great Journey is - all the Elites probably think the Brutes are filthy heretics at that point.
stable schooner
Yeah it should be reminded that Elites still believe in the Great Journey at this point, the Spec Op Elite even says by the Prophets
stable schooner
Heck Some Elites don’t even know the Prophets betrayed them evidenced by the Elite dialogue and Rtas saying the Prophets were fools to trust the Brutes for murdering the Councilors
versed helm
Exactly.
If there's any reason zealots shouldn't be there, it comes into play after Halo 2.
humble yacht
well even thel didn't think it was the prophets at first
Tartarus had to tell him that they ordered him to do it
stable schooner
Exactly ^ and ^^
versed helm
And by "there", I mean y'know
On the Arbiter's side
But either way, zealots aren't gonna let themselves be killed by Brutes
And they're probably not gonna start murdering their own kind on sight
stable schooner
What Chimera said I hate when people say the Gravemind is why Arbiter stoped believing in the Great Journey
humble yacht
The seeds were planted by Tartarus, though Thel hadn't not yet accepted it
he was a stubborn zealot
stable schooner
Exactly his betrayed face says it all.
trail flame
Wasn't it really Sesa 'Refumee who planted the seeds of doubt in the Arbiter?
humble yacht
maybe
but they way their conversation with, Thel seemed to completely reject Sesa's statements
stable schooner
I don’t know honestly. He did shoot at him and Tartarus interrupted him while talking to Spark
trail flame
And he might have been convinced if that idiot Sesa hadn't just randomly shot the Arbiter the very moment he finally let his guard down and started listening to Guilty Spark
humble yacht
I think after the fact, Thel probably thought back to Sesa and was like "oh crap, he was right. kind of feel bad for killing him now"
gilded mason
To be fair, they were literally in freefall and Sesa knew there was basically no time left.
He wanted to get out while he could and maybe start over.
trail flame
That's a good point
What would happen had they fallen longer anyway? What even lies at the core of a gas giant like Threshold?
gilded mason
Crushing pressure?
humble yacht
lack of oxygen?
trail flame
True
humble yacht
though maybe sesa could survive that with his rebreather
trail flame
Also those two messages sound like the beginning of a TV infomercial
trail flame
Crushing pressure? Lack of Oxygen? Bertrayed by your Prophets? Call 1800-555-555 now!
gilded mason
lol
humble yacht
Order your Flood Super Cells now, limited time price of $19.99
trail flame
I did always wonder what was going through Sesa's mind in that scene though, I guess it makes sense with that taken into account
humble yacht
these cells eat everything!
trail flame
Oh man, I've been buying my Flood Super Cells at like 60 bucks a packet
And the biomass in my yard hasn't even started talking yet :/
stable schooner
Hah literally dead, It was at that moment Thel realized” he done messed up” and his faith was restored until 4 missions later.
I wonder how things would have played out with Bungies original idea of all Hunter Heretics
trail flame
How would they even communicate with the Sangheili?
versed helm
And the biomass in my yard hasn't even started talking yet :/```That's uh
That's gg
We've reached the peak of existence now
trail flame
All it does is tell me about how "this isn't my grave" and "the people who built this place knew what they wrought". Like chill dude, no need to criticize my gardening 😔
versed helm
Not entirely.
He's judging it by modern standards - any assumption about the power of the Scorpion's gun is incorrect, and he's dead wrong about its ammunition being APHE.
It's clearly a tungsten kinetic energy penetrator of some kind, maybe with a follow-on charge.
The fact that he also thinks it doesn't have any kind of optical zoom or enhanced targeting and is inaccurate means he's got no idea about canon/gameplay separation.
And his concern about it chiefly having only one operator is because he doesn't understand that the operator provides tactical oversight for a variety of dumb-AI driven subsystems.
rain token
thanks, i just wasnt too sure as anything thats to do with the vehicles of the UNSC i just dont know.
versed helm
His nitpicky stuff about un-augmented humans not being able to lift the hatch is probably something that can be overcome even today, with a bit of hydraulic assistance.
His stuff about the tracks might be somewhere on track (no pun intended), but I tend to doubt that "breaking down" is much of an issue 26th century tankers have to worry about unless they're being shot at.
But then again, one of the big rules of modern warfare is that stuff always finds a way to break down.
So who knows. At least the UNSC will frequently have repair drones and assistance on station.
His point about the suspension system specifically may be valid, though, but I've really no clue on that part.
But in general, the notion that just because the scorpion's gun is 90mm it's underpowered is ridiculous.
it's a fairly decent assumption that, thanks to futuristic materials and propellants, that 90mm gun can reach muzzle velocities well above a typical modern tank.
So, at the end of the day, don't worry too hard - it makes perfect sense in Halo's context.
unique rune
It's pretty much just that if you built a Scorpion with modern, real-world tech, it'd be kinda dumb, but 500 years of advancements can offset that.
rain token
wow, this is definitely the place to go for lore.
versed helm
I mean, just think about it - the chief thing that limits the muzzle velocity of tank cannons in real life is materials.
The barrel and firing system of any weapon can only sustain so much pressure before they fail.
But when you've got molecularly-reinforced nanocomposite materials to play around with, you can start experimenting with some much crazier propellants.
'Course higher muzzle velocity means more recoil, so you gotta find ways to offset that too.
But that's well within the realms of probability for the UNSC.
But y'know, at the end of the day what we really need is Warfleet for guns and vehicles.
You could probably dispense with the cross-sections (a bit of a waste to do them for guns), but keep the style of presentation and information level.
Though that said I've love to see the internals of an MA5
Or a plasma weapon
Or carbine
rain token
honestly i would like to see the insides of covenant weapons
but i don't think that would be coming any time soon
versed helm
Yeah. Unfortunately you're right about that.
The hope is that Infinite will usher in a new era of encyclopedia-style books tho
gilded mason
Hopefully Infinite is a success...
versed helm
More profitable to release them around the time a game's coming out
carmine sleet
Isn't there an animation in one of the older games where we see inside either the Plasma Rifle or Plasma Pistol?
gilded mason
Isn't there an animation in one of the older games where we see inside either the Plasma Rifle or Plasma Pistol?
I think the top hood of the pistol pops open or something?
carmine sleet
Better than nothing, Looters
rain token
so another question, is this halo encyclopedia worth getting? i pretty much have every other book with mythos but whats the difference?
versed helm
It's... it's good. It's got some good info.
But all that, it's kinda of an ugly book.
Very squished in, a lot of bad images.
And unfortunately, it pilfered a lot of info off OG Halopedia.
And the thing about OG Halopedia is that it was filled with headcanon and terrible assumptions.
Which have been turned into very unfortunate elements of canon now.
feral perch
Such as?
gilded mason
I know of at least Halopedia mentioning a "united rebel front" then that got turned into "The United Rebel Front"
versed helm
Mythos is more narrative-orientated, less details.
But it has absolutely beautiful art and lays out the entire narrative in a digestible, plothole-free way.
My biggest gripes with the Enyclopedia's lore is stuff like the way it treats armour abilities
Or the way later editions just squished Reach stuff in randomly in a really haphazard way
The old little visual guide is a better version of the Encyclopedia, really.
But I do favour some of the Encyclopedia's lore regarding the UNSC's military structure.
Even if as a whole it's confusing and terrible.
Some of the Enyclopedia's gems are stuff like the BR having a shorter effective range than the AR
It's like 300m for the AR and 200-something for the BR. Both of which are probably ridiculous.
rain token
wait, what?
versed helm
Yeah.
rain token
'Effective'
versed helm
Yeah, that's the distinction I roll with too.
Accurate range and effective range being two more distinct concepts in Halo on account of better body armour.
But like, realistically speaking, the MA5 is chambered in a calibre of round that's used by sniper rifles today. It propels that weapon down a barrel in excess of 30", given the weapon's length and extremely bullpup configuration, and it's got electronic targeting systems that seemingly work alongside HUD-based impact-point predictive targeting systems.
Odds are, with a setup like that you can reach out and touch someone at four or five times that range if you put your mind to it.
And not to mention the BR literally being portrayed as the long-ranged one in-game.
Though strictly speaking its ammo might actually be less suited because it's much wider and a bit shorter, but the BR's 9.5x40 and the AR's 7.62x51 are separated by anywhere between 150-500 years of development so who knows.
versed helm
I frequent SoTP, Halopedia, Article 2 and here, yeah.
rain token
yeah it was about maneuvering plates i think.
versed helm
Oh yeah, about UNSC ship manouvering thrusters?
My current stance on that is that manouvering thrusters might just be retracted or covered until they're needed.
And that engine thrust vectoring on its own could account for a good portion of manouverability.
rain token
well, without it being confirmed i guess that your reasoning seems the most sensible.
versed helm
My alternate theory if the mentions of those types of thrusters in stuff in Nylund sources ever end up being seen as non-canon (in the same way many instances of carousel gravity are) is that UNSC ships can bleed their momentum via gravitic control, through similar principles to gravitic pull resistance and inertial compensation.
It may be a mixture of both but Warfleet didn't mention it when it discussed gravitic control systems so I'm a bit doubtful as-yet.
rain token
In Halo i particularly like the warships and the science behind them and it mildly bothers me how not everything was covered in Warfleet but it would be asking for WAY too much.
are there any more books like Mythos and Warfleet planned or is it just novels for now?
versed helm
Just novels - the only novel currently planned is Oblivion
The sequel to Silent Storm
To my knowledge, at least.
The Spartan Field Manual was pretty cool though.
rain token
Guess it's time to play the waiting game then.
versed helm
You know it
Though Oblivion should be great - Denning certainly has what it takes as a Halo writer.
rain token
I must say i have enjoyed reading Silent Storm and Retribution.
versed helm
They're excellent.
rain token
isn't there supposed to be a 'battle born series'?
rain token
didnt read it yet
rain token
Time to order another book then.
versed helm
Certainly adds some interesting perspective to the universe.
A few slightly oddball canon elements.
And there is a pretty cringey scene involving prototype weapons, at least from the perspective of someone who's deeply involved with Halo weapon lore.
But there's also a few really badass moments and really neat, uh, things.
versed helm
I won't spoil anything.
But oddly enough it gives an odd amount of understanding involving the typical cycle of Covenant ground operations during the war.
The way the conflict on Meridian went, even if only tangentially depicted, gels really well with other bits of canon.
rain token
Good to know.
feral perch
Legacy of Onyx was good IMO.
versed helm
It progressed the story of Onyx in an interesting way
But as a narrative on its own I found it a little tedious and childish
gilded mason
Yeah
versed helm
Like I always say, I like detailed writing, and Forbeck moved away from detail a bit after New Blood.
Not that he was ever a Staten to begin with
lunar condor
I wonder if humanity is gonna start using all the forerunner tech cortana is using now once they defeat the created
versed helm
Well, they have been using it a bit.
The Infinity's engines, a few prototype weapon mods.
gilded mason
Yeah, it'd continue their current path of using Forerunner stuff straight-up
lunar condor
If they managed to control guardians and stuff tho, nobody would really pose a threat to them anymore
Nobody we know about at least
gilded mason
It's a bit funny, considering what Cortana had previously said about how "innovative" humanity was. 😋
versed helm
Well I can think of a few Halo fans who don't like the idea of humans being supreme in that universe.
gilded mason
Well I can think of a few Halo fans who don't like the idea of humans being supreme in that universe.
😉
lunar condor
It be pretty weird tbh
Like i dont feel like they can go somewhere with the story if theres no important conflict going on
versed helm
Me as well - I mean, where am I supposed to get my horribly outmatched Marines vs Aliens carnage if the humans are all getting around in class 69 combat skins and blasting off lightrifles
gilded mason
Indeed
lunar condor
Its just a what are they even gonna fight with all that power later
versed helm
I mean, an out-of-control Flood invasion, maybe?
The Created xD
But that just becomes weird Forerunner shenanigans
Basically a repeat of the original Human/Forerunner/Flood conflict
lunar condor
Only thing that could pose a real threat that i can think of is some weird flood invasion out of nowhere, some random.mad foreruners or some precursor stuff
versed helm
And I mean, I got into Halo because of all the space marines running around with enormous rifles
And all the big, grounded looking ships
And it is preferable to me that those rifles go "rat-tat-tat" instead of "pew".
lunar condor
The problem i see with flood as the main antagonist is how long it would effectively take for them to be that powerful
versed helm
They can snowball pretty quick when they're not spawncamped 🤷
lunar condor
Like how many years was that forerunner-flood war
lunar condor
I dont even know how they would get off if people didnt bring ships there
versed helm
Your boy R'tas was on its butt so bad it actually had to drive High Charity to its destination instead of sending individual ships there
lunar condor
Like a flood outbreak could technically be contained by glassing a planet if the planet has no spaceships on it
versed helm
Yeah, that is true.
Unless a planet's worth of biomass would give them the means to create biological vessels
Zerg-style
lunar condor
Yeah i wondered if they could do that since they sorta dont die in space normally
versed helm
I don't believe so?
I can imagine slipspace travel potentially posing an issue for a biological ship though
But you never know
The Flood can do some freaky stuff
lunar condor
I mean if they could go into suspended animation at will they could just send out sleeper ships
Cruising space for millions of years
Just to arrive somewhere and continur that cycle
versed helm
True, true. Pretty high concept.
lunar condor
Tho considering how smart the flood is supposed to become im more surprised they cant just create tech like humans do
versed helm
I reckon they can, tbh, but they've never really needed to.
I think it'd be most compelling if all their tech was FSC-based, though.
Just to make it nice and thematic.
Though different kinds aren't out of the equation.
lunar condor
I wonder what the end level of flood evolution looks like
Like what happens if they win and if their goal would ever change if they gain enough intelligence to question it
Need me a flood trilogy of books
Like the forerunner one
storm flume
Written from the perspective of the gravemind
That would take some real badass story writing skills
remote spruce
so a poem book
agile lotus
That was Halo 2’s Gravemind specifically, if I remember correctly.
I think all of the Graveminds were very verbose, but not all of them were poetic like ours was.
craggy tusk
heres something ive been wondering
how did johnson and arbiter make it to earth before chief in halo 3
craggy tusk
if they were still on delta halo when chief was on the keyship
its a forerunner ship i think its pretty fast
remote spruce
oh i mean that like, the ship didn't go full throttle to Earth
it slowed down due to various reasons (Chief trying to kill Truth being one)
craggy tusk
also why did truth flee the battle? wouldnt he want to go with tartarus to activate the ring?
it doesnt make sense why he would just run away with the ring right there
fossil eagle
It took five days for Truth to get to Earth from High Charity.
unique rune
oh screw off what did I say this time
fossil eagle
Interesting question. Truth likely sent Tartarus to either maximise the possibility that a ring would be fired or as a distraction for the Sangheili Separatists as Truth knew the location of the Ark and it's significance in his Great Journey. If Tartarus failed, it would not matter, as all six/seven remaining rings could be fired in tandem if Truth could make it to the Ark.
One thing I have a problem with is that Truth only abducted one person only when he was already on the Ark in order to fire the Array. If mankind hadn't followed him through to the Ark, his plan would've failed completely since there are zero Reclaimers present to initiate the activation sequence.
unique rune
I think poorly thought-out plans is a problem with 2 and 3 in general.
Like Chief's ridiculous "give them back their bomb" thing.
It looks and sounds cool, but it just kinda falls apart if you think about it for a couple seconds.
gilded mason
I liked that scene back when I was a kid, but that changed as I got older.
craggy tusk
exactly "what if you miss"?
"I won't"
yeah but what if the covenant ship moves
lol
also the covenant were on earth for a while before truth arrived
youd think they would capture some humans
versed helm
Tbh I don't think the "give their Covenant back their bomb thing" is so bad if you accept that the Covenant ship's shields were down
And that there were no other ships in position to MAC it
The marathon, of course, being in the process of trying to book it
But y'know, I guess it's just a matter of Chief assuming the cruiser would maintain a fairly consistent beeline trajectory towards Earth's atmosphere
And having Cortana angle the station so that the depressurization would carry him at the right trajectory
If he missed, he'd probably have been picked up by a UNSC ship
And probably would have felt really silly
craggy tusk
okay so the gravemind could have made a fatal mistake in halo 2
what if arbitor fails to stop tartarus from activating the ring?
versed helm
Then I suppose the Gravemind entity has to wait for another thousand years
No biggie
craggy tusk
The gravemind should have sent flood to the control room instead of focusing on high charity
i mean unless he has a bs see into the future thing
versed helm
I mean if he had used the In Amber Clad to get Flood to the control room
stable schooner
Maybe Gravemind was like hey this Elite who just tore through my waves of Combat Forms is a better idea.
versed helm
He'd probably have been stuck on the ring afterwards
craggy tusk
no matter how small theres always the chance tartarus kills arbitor
versed helm
Sure there is
But there's also the chance every Marine will cop a plasma bolt to the face the moment they jump out of their Pelican
War is full of calculated risks
And even though he can't see into the future, the Gravemind is a very smart boy.
stable schooner
More chance he holds off the Flood, activates the Ring and kills any reclaimers who can shut it off which the flood can’t do.
Johnson and Arbiter stalled Tartarus with their whole blowing open the door with a Scarab and entire world view shaking debate
I can’t see the flood doing better
Miranda dies so does the flood.
craggy tusk
The flood did make some stupid mistakes in halo 3.
logically we can assume that high charity has many ships to infect in it
stable schooner
Halo 3 their mistakes are beyond stupid no doubt
craggy tusk
so why did they only send one flood cruiser to earth
versed helm
I mean, High Charity was blockaded.
stable schooner
Gravemind straight up prevented Rtas from glassing the Control Room.
versed helm
It probably took a concerted assault to break through Rtas' defensive cordon.
One Flood ship escapes, Rtas takes half his fleet to follow it, presumably leaving a few other watchdogs but knowing there weren't many vessels left in High Charity at that point
Then, randomly, the Gravemind figures out how to get High Charity to jump, makes it jump, and leaves the fleet behind.
stable schooner
He took his entire Fleet. Rtas wasn’t the only Elite orbiting High Charity just saying.
versed helm
He jumps straight to Earth because he doesn't want to take the risk of the array being fired
Which it well might have been if he didn't arrive when he did
I assume Rtas left some portions of his fleet behind when he followed the cruiser to Earth
Which prevented any more Flood from leaving High Charity
But of course, the rest of that fleet would've gotten the slip when HC jumped to Earth
stable schooner
Couldn’t have been many ships if he only went to the Arc with 8 escort vessels
versed helm
Well that's because he left a few ships at HC, innit?
craggy tusk
if you think about it the flood could have gotten to earth way sooner if they had simply gotten onboard the keyship before it left high charity
versed helm
But they didn't.
This is what we call constructing plotholes.
I would imagine it wasn't by chance that Truth booked it from High Charity before any Flood could get on the Keyship.
stable schooner
Rtas wasn’t the sole fleet orbiting High Charity, as Arbiter says they had a fleet of Hundreds orbiting High Charity . I say Rtas took all the Ships under his command.
versed helm
Truth took his ships to Earth
All the ships that were with the Elites stayed to blockade HC
UntiI that cruiser escaped
stable schooner
And the Elite Major doesn’t say that Fleet was destroyed. Exactly so Rtas and what ships he commanded went to Earth
versed helm
Many of the ships around HC were destroyed in the opening battles of the Schism
Many of the ones taken over by the Flood were zapped
Or most, I guess.
All but one.
stable schooner
Aye but their was still at least Two hundred left when Arbiter left which is after Truth Left
stable schooner
That Rtas only took the Ships he commanded.
versed helm
But there were two hundred there
And he took a pretty small fleet
According to you
stable schooner
Their was probably a hundred other Zealots and Ultras maintaing the blockade
Let alone the surviving Councilors
versed helm
Which is exactly what I'm saying
And they were given the slip when HC jumped to Earth
stable schooner
Exactly I’m saying Rtas took his fleet not the Elite Fleet to Earth
stable schooner
Exactly
craggy tusk
I want your opinion on this what would happen if the great schism never happened
versed helm
I mean what are the conditions for the Schism never happening
Truth never turned on the Elites?
craggy tusk
The elites never leave the covenant and truth keeps them around
versed helm
Cuz I guess... that means either installation 05 gets fired
unique rune
everybody dies wooooo
gilded mason
Basically
versed helm
Or his paranoia comes to fruition and the Elites end up betraying him and being like nah
Hold on
craggy tusk
okay for context
craggy tusk
the story of halo 2 is still the same with everything about the arbitor
but truth never betrays the elite species and the overall majority of elites are still with the covenant
versed helm
Well that means the Flood probably manage to escape High Charity, unless Truth leaves some bois there to contain them.
But then again, Truth may never have felt the need to leave High Charity and just focused on firing 05
Since the schism is kinda what made HC such easy prey
And forced him to try and make the Ark play
craggy tusk
The flood most likely would have been contained
versed helm
So I mean, I guess the Arbiter's only recourse for stopping Halo from firing is to kill Miranda and Johnson?
And then all Truth has to do is find another human
Which means that the final battle would end up being a climactic battle for 05
Probably facilitated by Chief and Cortana wreaking havok in HC
But y'know
gilded mason
Wait, why would Arbiter try to stop Halo in this scenario?
craggy tusk
wait why would he kill miranda and johnson
he never gets the chance
okay this scenario is pretty confusing
versed helm
No because if he doesn't have his Elite bois to back him up
But he still wants to stop Halo from firing
He'd need to eliminate all the reclaimers
But if it weren't for Tartarus trying to kill him he'd have never met the Gravemind
gilded mason
But he still wants to stop Halo from firing
Why would he?
versed helm
Yeah, without the schism it's kinda impossible for the Arbiter's plot to stay the same
I think more likely the story would be balanced by other Elites dissenting as the ring is about to be fired
Proving Truth's suspicions correct
gilded mason
Maybe Zo Resken does something
versed helm
Yes
He can do a thing
Maybe the Gravemind finds another way to relay information to the Elites
Causing a bunch of them to freak out
And assassinate the prophets as they go to fire 05
And then the brutes go ape
As well as the rest of the Elites
Maybe suspicions are raised by the need to have humans fire the rings
Actually my optimal alternate reality here is based on the idea that Truth knew what was actually going on with the rings and never wanted one to be fired (while he was in range, at least).
His attempt to fire them from the Ark was like a final play to get rid of all his enemies
Possibly
So uh, maybe he'd be the one to foil the firing of 05 somehow and keep the story going
stable schooner
Should be noted This means Regret still dies by which that point Truth has already killed the Elites on Earth
craggy tusk
Heres another what if chief was unable to kill the prophet of regret?
in this scenario chief is unable to get to regret before covenant reinforcements arrive
stable schooner
Carrier Glasses temple anyways. Arbiter stops Delta halo from Firing but Truth gets to Earth uninposed. Maybe Gravemind recovers Cortana and gives her to Arbiter.
versed helm
He dies no matter what Eaither arby or flood kills him
craggy tusk
yeah but glassing the temple he was in would make members of the covenant question him
stable schooner
Remember truth called back the Phantoms in the normal timeline. He was already questioned
versed helm
^
stable schooner
Infact this is probably the best scenario Chief can die with Humanity still surviving
Chief also can’t serve as a diversion for Amber Clad to warp in unimpeded.
strong sage
How fast can pelican travel especially from space/orbit to planetside like uhh when they are delivering marines etc does it take like hours for them to arrive?
strong sage
I seee but if we are using like cutscenes that is considered not realistic right?
stable schooner
@versed helm I just wanted to say after realizing something important I have shifted my view from Zealots not being in Rtas Fleet to making no sense appearing in his ground forces as they would be commanding the other Carriers. So them not being in Halo 3 still makes sense.
versed helm
Well, that's good to know.
stable schooner
I forgot since it hasn’t happened in lore often Since that Zealots also Command as Shipmasters Of CCS Class Battlecruisers in CE and hence could be under the command of a CAS Class Assault Carrier Shipmaster.
stiff trail
Has it been stated what Chief's armour in Halo 5 is? Is it his upgraded Mark VI from Halo 4 with some repairs, or is it a new Gen 2 set that closely resembles his upgraded Mark VI?
fossil eagle
It's Gen III Mjolnir.
EDIT: No it isn't.
wild cypress
I thought it was Gen 2
carmine sleet
It's not Gen 3 in Halo 5. It's Gen 2
wild cypress
We're getting Gen 3 with Infinite
fossil eagle
Oh sheet I thought he said infinite.
It's was originally Gen I Mjolnir Mark VI that was modified by Cortana using nanomachines aboard the Forward Unto Dawn while John was under ice. It's visually modelled after an older variant of Mark IV Mjolnir but has numerous small upgrades as per Cortana's design.
It was replaced some time after the defense of Earth against the Didact with a Gen 2 suit with exterior plating inspired by Chief's modded armour.
stiff trail
Cool, thanks guys. Just a random question that popped up in my head.
Also, it's written in the books that the prophets drink tea and smoke tobacco. Could this be because of the alliance between the San'Shyuum and Humanity before the Human/Forerunner war leading to both species trading things like tea and tobacco? That's pretty cool.
fossil eagle
Tobacco and tea leaves would've all been eradicated following the activation of the Halo Array. Tobacco could've been planted on multiple planets across the galaxy once the reseeding effort began, either for the sake of fulfilling a niche in plantlife diversity or for Auld Lang Syne, as the ancient human and San'Shyuum empires were at one point friendly towards each other. It could've originated from a planet conquered by the Covenant Empire that were seeded with Tobacco plants, or it may also simply refer to a nicotine-rich plant in Halo: Contact Harvest.
Tea leaves, however, are pretty universal. I would wager that most, if not all advanced species in the Milky Way Galaxy, have cultivated their own varieties of tea from native flora.
stiff trail
I still think it would be really cool if their use of tea and tobacco really did stem from their ancient empire's friendliness with Humanity.
main rivet
Realistically seems like a given that animals given the means try to get high 😃
versed helm
I'm still curious about the planet Heian
How old are the ruins on that planet?
Also,where in the galaxy is Heian located
Anyone?
carmine sleet
Unknown
versed helm
Remember the H2A map Warlord
versed helm
I know it says that it's located in some Forerunner arena,but where is this arena located
carmine sleet
Unknown
versed helm
What are some of the strangest Halo locations in your honest opinion
trail flame
Area 51, Earth
I tought the place where the Office of Naval Intelligence found a prehistoric human ship was odd, but it's hardly a proper location
It's just an old ship lying around in space
versed helm
I'd say either the System of Miasmic Giants or the Planet of Blue and Red
versed helm
Does anyone have any assumptions to what that unknown alien ship was that crashed on installation 04?
fair hazel
MJOLNIR GEN 2 MARK VI[MOD]
vivid dust
that's a fair assumption
nah seriously I think there's an entity the community has called "The Meddlers" that could maybe have a connection to this ship, but I can't find anything about them on Halopedia?
I know HiddenXperia made a vid on that topic a while back
obsidian thistle
"The Meddlers" are a fan term (dubbed by me) for any mysterious aliens that pop up.
Better than the long term Halopedia will use xD
But that said the Meddling Aliens and the crashed Aliens are different.
@vivid dust
agile lotus
So there is evidence of aliens external to the Milky Way, or at least residing in other regions outside what Humanity and the Covenant explored.
agile lotus
I have a feeling that we’ll get to meet some of them, sooner or later.
obsidian thistle
Hopefully
Its in my top 5 things I hope Halo does eventually.
- Go passed the year 2610.
- Bring the mysterious aliens back.
- Get more lore for Spock.
- Explain what happened to Keiichi-047.
- Get pattern names for all the Covie weapons.
feral perch
- Bring back James-005
carmine sleet
Well, we're at least getting number 1
Also, I would love to see them give us new aliens in the future. Give us a threat that isn't Covenant or Forerunner in origin in a game and I would be so happy
buoyant sigil
Ok I have a question, first off I’m not super knowledgeable on halo lore so give me some grace. why did the didact ever think that composing humanity was a good idea, considering he knew the impending threat of the flood it would seem to me like warning humanity and equipping them properly would be the logical thing to do. But idk
carmine sleet
The Didact was going to use the composed humans to fight the Flood
He also composed the majority of the Prometheans as well to make the Promethean Knights
buoyant sigil
The didact fought humanity in the human-forerunner war right?
obsidian thistle
Yep. Lost his kids to the War also
vivid dust
Pretty sure humanity was already reduced to the prehistorical stage when the Forerunners encountered the Flood, so idk what good equipping them would've done
buoyant sigil
The flood was around during the human-forerunner war
They just “left” after
Which raises the question of how many other galaxies have they consumed?
carmine sleet
My guess is none since the stage at which they could do that is only theoretical
obsidian thistle
Assuming they did of course.
There is also the possibility the Flood hid in a way we dont yet know
A Gravemind can cause funky stuff if it has the right tools.
gilded mason
Which raises the question of how many other galaxies have they consumed?
I guess we have Forthencho's statement at the very least, but I've no idea of the accuracy of it:
This we were told by the Gravemind, the greatest of them, who has consumed ten thousand planets and brought entire galaxies to an end. This we were told...
carmine sleet
Could easily be the Gravemind saying that to scare them even more
gilded mason
I think he was only talking to the Librarian there
obsidian thistle
The Gravemind however commonly says half-truths and possibilities to scare folks.
Or make them do stuff
carmine sleet
If you make your enemy believe you're more formidable than you actually are, their morale will go down much faster
obsidian thistle
Or you can make them do stuff drastic or form plans that go your way.
carmine sleet
Indeed
gilded mason
True, though this was on Earth right before the rings fired. So not exactly much time to change plans.
obsidian thistle
I mean one could say that the Gravemind planned his grand return when he learned he had zero way to stop the array firing. And once he got all the pieces in place he just taunted the person who like planned the Array reseeding.
stable schooner
So how strong are Promeatheans actually?
obsidian thistle
Hard to say
fair hazel
Physically? Very. They are very strong. Effortlessly toss people around
Knights can toss warthogs
stable schooner
Ok I guess how Powerful would be the more correct term. I mean does Promeatheans suggest the Foreunners could lose to Spartans?
feral perch
The Master Chief killed probably thousands of Flood forms single-handedly, where legions of Prometheans were required for the same level of effectiveness.
He's like a very condensed Promethean warrior.
Also, there's geas, as much as I'm not a fan of it, it's canon.
versed helm
I mean the thing that people that thing forget is that Chief is actually pretty sneaky
Even when he's going all-out.
feral perch
True.
Something the Fall of Reach left me with was just how much Spartan-IIs relied upon and valued stealth.
Mjolnir was great, but hordes of Covenant could still melt through it and vaporize the contents.
fair hazel
A true warrior servant would wreck john easily
versed helm
I still like to know what species attacked Crecka in the System of Miasmic Giants
Any ideas?
gilded mason
¯_(ツ)_/¯
versed helm
Is it possible that it might've been the same species that crash landed on Installation 04
spare goblet
Okay, i'm a confuzzled boi. i was just playing the OG Xbox version of Halo 2 and encountered an Elite Minor with an Energy Sword. pretty sure that contradicts canon?
like, isn't it illegal?
humble yacht
Probably a spec ops elite
humble yacht
Was it an arbiter level?
spare goblet
no, it was a Chief Level, Delta Halo to be exact.
stable schooner
Yeah theirs an Leveled Elite in Delta Halo and Regret that carry an Energy Sword. Chief never fights Spec Ops until he’s on High Charity.
humble yacht
Halopedia says minors can wield energy swords on the battlefield
stable schooner
Cause the Elite is a Leveled, he can be a Minor, Major or Ultra.
stable schooner
I thought the same thing but I’m pretty sure later lore said Elites from Noble families can always carry swords even as Minors. I don’t know why Bungie put sword Elite encounters there that are random.
humble yacht
Aristocrat elites can wield swords on or off the battlefield
spare goblet
probably didn't have the lore thought out to that point yet in 2004
most of Bungie's lore dumps for The Covenant seems to come from the Halo 3 and Reach days.
stable schooner
What’s up with the Elite Counciler on Great Journey with a Beam Rifle, real questions right there.
spare goblet
i haven't seen him before, but now i need to seek him out
we also need him to be a canon character now
stable schooner
Nah I’m pretty sure Tartarus already stomped him into the ground. It was a joke though it’s clear the Elite Councilors after being freed took any weapons they could find.
spare goblet
probably
wait, if he had a Beam Rifle then surely he would've stayed up on the platform with Johnson?
stable schooner
He actually does at first , all Elites with long ranged weapons shoot with Johnson but eventually go on the platform.
spare goblet
yea i remember making the Tartarus boss fight much easier on Legendary by finagling some Carbines and Beam Rifles for the Elites
though the Zealots are kinda useless. they just go in and get stomped.
stable schooner
Cause Zealots are honorable they only fight with Sword and Holy Flares.
gilded mason
'Cause they ain't zealous.
stable schooner
Well I mean their not Zealous Warriors but Politicians.
stable schooner
Ultras don’t have a honor weapon ban.
spare goblet
you have a point
stable schooner
They just get mad when you get in their face and Berserk
spare goblet
i hope that for Halo Infinite if we get Playable Elites we can use High Councilor armor
gilded mason
most of them are former Zealots and Ultras
Where was that said?
spare goblet
and Honor Guard armor
stable schooner
I know Halopedia says most were former Ultras but I haven’t heard about Zealots
gilded mason
i hope that for Halo Infinite if we get Playable Elites we can use High Councilor armor
At this point, I'm just hopin' for playable Elites at all. 😋
spare goblet
hold on, i'm double checking Halopedia
stable schooner
No H2A Multiplayer Elites thank you very much Ostral.
gilded mason
I'm too starved to care very much. (Though I doubt 4/5 elites will be front and center in Infinite anyway)
versed helm
I mean, my argument against playable Elites has always been that it's kinda rare to find an Elite who's on-par with a Spartan as a warrior
Like, not trying to be disparaging
Elites are phenomenal soldiers
gilded mason
Then the elites we play as are ones that are on par.
spare goblet
or MP should just be kept non-canon
gilded mason
They're exceptional, which is why we play as 'em.
versed helm
But I remember playing Halo 2 and being like "why can I play as an Elite in multiplayer if Chief guns them down by the dozen in campaign."
And Silent Storm's Spartan vs Elite action leaves you with no illusions as to who's got the moves.
But fair enough, Ostral.
Maybe if the rationale is that they're all absolutely hardcore spec ops.
Maybe from a particular spec ops group or zealot order.
spare goblet
when it comes to multiplayer, i don't care about the context of campaign, it's just a multiplayer mode and the Elites are a form or player choice
versed helm
Good for you.
gilded mason
Maybe from a particular spec ops group or zealot order.
The former tickles my fancy more than the latter.
Or maybe they could be the SoS soldiers we know are part of the Infinity crew.
versed helm
It's a good bet that the representatives the Arbiter sends to the UNSC are chosen for a reason.
stable schooner
Ultras > Spec Ops. But fair point rationalizing as Spec Ops, Ultras, Zealots, Generals any Veteran high ranking Elite.
versed helm
Well I mean, that statement is a little like saying Colonels > Corporals in the UNSC
spare goblet
i also kinda like the 4/5 design. and some armor sets like Hesudoros Zealot armor and Commander just wouldn't work on the Reach or 2/3 phenotype's bodies.
stable schooner
Except Zealots are given stronger equipment. Covenant isn’t like our Military it definitely has bits of feudalism in it
versed helm
That is true.
stable schooner
It’s like Knights Vs Special forces
versed helm
But it's also not unforeseeable that a Minor or Major from a stock infantry unit could leave a Zealot Field Marshal on his backside.
People can be unpredictable, you know?
stable schooner
If out of armor sure
versed helm
Well, energy swords are a bit of an equalizer.
My point is, Ultras are a military officer rank, spec ops units are capability-focused Elite troops.
In a realistic conceptualization you can't ignore that distinction.
stable schooner
I mean different Elite Armors can take different amounts of damage I wouldn’t call them equalizers. Ultras are prompted to that rank based on Combat experience though
versed helm
I should've said Colonels vs ODSTs, really.
stable schooner
Elites have a Direct Combat related ranking structure though unlike our Militaries.
versed helm
It is also entirely possible that an Elite who shows greater leadership is more likely to become an Ultra, an Elite who's a better raw killer goes to spec ops.
That seems practical to me.
Of course, on the battlefield shield strength and equipment leads to the dynamic we see in-game.
But blanket this > that statements aren't super helpful from a grounded perspective.
stable schooner
Ultras have more health to though. Clearly it’s not just equipment.
versed helm
Well Ultras and spec-ops as we see in game play quite distinct sandbox roles.
Sandbox roles which would become less pronounced in a realistic context.
It's a gameplay =/= canon thing.
I mean, raw in-game health isn't even a particularly useful representative of in-universe durability, except where shield strength is concerned.
stable schooner
I’m just saying in every game in the original trilogy Spec Ops are just Majors with more skills and The ability to throw Grenades. They have more skill sets compared to the Ultra who is a better front line warrior.
versed helm
Well, however you want to conceptualize it.
stable schooner
I’m not saying a Spec Op couldn’t defeat a Ultra but in a straight Sword fight the Ultra is the most likely winner.
versed helm
I mean, personally I'd say that raw swordfighting skills are something that's dictated on an individual basis.
I'd bet that a spec-ops Elite probably overall has more skills related to the raw act of killing people, while an Ultra is a little more concerned with intermediate unit tactics and leadership.
The ethos of a Covenant spec-ops unit is probably a little closer to that of Spartans.
stable schooner
In a physical combat based society like the Elites i would disagree. I would instead say the Spec Op Elite is more clever and Innovative while the Ultra is stronger and the better leader.
versed helm
I mean, we have had some pretty hardcore spec-ops characters.
spare goblet
hence why N'tho and Usze worked well with Chief in H3
stable schooner
Spec Ops care less about Honor compared to an Ultra.
spare goblet
the way Chief handled things was pretty similar to the way they handled things i imagine.
versed helm
You're very categorical in the way you look at soldiers, Byzantine.
stable schooner
In Terms Of pure Combat Strength Of The Elites i would go Zealots>Lights Of Sanghelios> Ultras>Spec Ops> Honor Guards> Elite Majors.
gilded mason
lol
stable schooner
Rtas is the Spec Ops Commander he doesn’t count.
Your idea Ostral?
Honor Guards don’t often see direct Combat, have the same shields as Majors and have weak feats.
gilded mason
I just thought the visual of Looters saying that followed immediately by your ranking was humorous.
versed helm
I mean, for not often seeing direct combat
stable schooner
I consider Elite Spec Ops the most Versatile Elites but the strongest Nah.
versed helm
Honour Guards certainly see direct combat a lot
stable schooner
How often are Prophets on the front lines I’d disagree.
versed helm
I mean especially Regret's lot
Regret liked to lead from the front
They're his unique unit in HW
I'm guessing his lot at least are some of the best crack troops in the Covenant
spare goblet
yea gotta give Regret credit for that
stable schooner
Yet in Halo 2 they never left his General vicinity.
teal knot
What about the Prelates in terms of combat?
gilded mason
Pretty powerful
teal knot
Surely they'd be on the front a lot
stable schooner
This was solely about Elites but I would put them over a lot of Elite Ranks.
Also the Halo Wars 1 Cutscene showed those Honor Guards get destroyed
teal knot
It was related to you mentioning Prophets but alright
stable schooner
Well that’s cause the Honor Guards Guard The Prophets But I’m not saying you can’t participate.
@versed helm I’m just saying Looters the Covenant is a Modern Military Fedual Mix led by a Martial based society to directly compare them using our modern Military with less physical based standards isn’t a fair comparison.
feral perch
Prelates likely did not serve on the front lines, because they were usually sent to obscure locations to train their Jiralhanae charges. They existed primarily to jumpstart the Great Schism.
They were powerful warriors, yes, but I think a Spartan-III could handle one with moderate difficulty.
stable schooner
@gilded mason hey since you said you would take anything how about Halo Wars 1 Elites in Halo 4 Armor for Playable Elites in Infinite?
spare goblet
ew
gilded mason
O-Oh.
feral perch
Halo Wars Elites were the most clumsy Sangheili ever
vivid dust
woah
spare goblet
the Halo Wars 1 Elites are the only ones i dislike
gilded mason
But I would swallow my disgust.
versed helm
ostral imy
spare goblet
they have such a massive torso and this tiny waist
stable schooner
“Oh my Godddddddd!!!”Ostral.
gilded mason
lol
spare goblet
now here's a question: why didn't we fight any Elites in ODST?
gilded mason
Truth already had his Brutes murderize them.
feral perch
Somehow
stable schooner
Which doesn’t make sense in Bucks first mission but that is the Canon answer
vivid dust
but Truth being Truth
gilded mason
Truth planned on the upheaval no matter what
spare goblet
weird
stable schooner
Out of lore Supposedly Bungie couldn’t make the Elites function as Enemies but who knows.
gilded mason
Huh. Remember where ya heard that?
spare goblet
not a dev, but i feel like Bungie could've just re-used some AI assets from Halo 2.
stable schooner
It’s something I hear on every forum or reddit when the topic is brought up but I can’t source any definite proof.
spare goblet
they also already had Elite AI from the base version of Halo 3, so a simply putting the Elites on the Covenant team really couldn't have been that hard.
stable schooner
Elite AI in Halo 3 is too Aggressive. They always charge for Melee. But true they could have copied Halo 2s AI which would have taken more time then copying Brutes
stable schooner
Welp will just see when Halo 3 ODST hits PC
spare goblet
yea
fair hazel
@spare goblet No modding discussion
spare goblet
noted
fossil eagle
Not of consoles or console games without official support, anyway.
versed helm
I always wondered
fossil eagle
What, I wonder?
trail flame
Does anyone else think that Sangheili sounds a bit like a mixture between an African language, Japanese, and a little bit of Latin?
It certainly fits their exotic homeworld
buoyant sigil
Aaaaaaaahwubadaugh
inner basin
Wort wort wort sounds like a mix between African, Japanese and Latin to me
trail flame
Well I was thinking more along the lines of "Dieduckt gahkaboonoh Liebuh-Rahrian musuyano. Kaboonzaywah wohchitah kneekohsoh woorumahtwo."
From this page: https://www.halopedia.org/Sangheili_(language)
There's also an audio clip at the end of the page that is pretty cool
buoyant sigil
I mean idk I just think sangheili are a bunch of space weebs
fair hazel
Sangheili is sangheili. They’re not one human thing. And that transcription is like, what the sounds are like.
Seemeelar too sa-eeng th-iss
buoyant sigil
Nah 🅱️ they just weebs
fair hazel
No.
trail flame
lmao
Yeah I get that it's a purely phonetic transcription
In fact they have their own alphabet
It just sorta reminds me of that mix of human languages
storm flume
I'm going through the vocabulary section on the page and I can definitely see it too
I'm not sure I see the Latin, but a lot of it definitely seems like something you'd find in subsaharan Africa
trail flame
Aye
I mostly get the tiny bit of latin from the names
Though those sound pretty African too
tribal folio
Why is the halo ring viewed as bad and should be disabled destroyed when it's just the promethians choices which were bad fighting without question and trying to wipe the precursors which lead to them needing to use it
Like is it really so bad to wipe out and preserve all life so life doesnt end forever
And it's probably better than being taken over and molded into the flood
carmine sleet
You realise that firing the Halos is mass genocide, right?
tribal folio
Slip
You would prefer to become flood?
And have life everywhere only be the flood then the flood die off from no food
carmine sleet
No. I just don't approve of mass genocide
tribal folio
Ok so
A quick wipe is better than death of all sentient life forever
With a repopulation
unique rune
Killing everything in the galaxy isn't exactly an ideal situation, even if it is to stop something like the Flood.
It is entirely a last resort type of weapon.
unique rune
It's... it's still bad.
The fact that you'd even end up in a situation where the Halo Array is your only remaining option is especially bad.
tribal folio
The promethians were stupid though for keeping the flood alive vs wiping it out as they did their race
In the case where they arent the cause
But its last resort
unique rune
The Forerunners kept Flood samples alive in order to study them. It makes perfect sense. In the event that the Flood were to return, possibly from some extragalactic source, knowing more about your enemy is... pretty dang important.
humble yacht
The flood originally came from outside the galaxy. Even if all flood in the Milky Way had been destroyed, more flood could have come from outside the galaxy again. If that had happened, not studying the flood when they had the chance would have been bad for the forerunners.
tribal folio
So you think the flood can move at light speed to potential sentient planets we havent been to and survive by the time it reaches?
humble yacht
Doesn’t need to move at light speed
carmine sleet
How did you get the idea of the Flood moving at FTL speeds from what Chimera said?
tribal folio
I mean dont they starve
humble yacht
Can just send canisters of dust or spores like it originally did
tribal folio
Hence the wiping all life
So it's not like they go into hibernation mode then one day be reawakened otherwise it would of been pointless wiping out all life
humble yacht
Well flood super cells can become spores which is kind of like hibernation
stable schooner
I’m just saying what did 100000 years of research actually yield about the flood.
humble yacht
Spores don’t need food like active cells do
Spores can sit in nutrient deficient environments for a long time
tribal folio
Do they have a set life span though?
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
tribal folio
I would think so with all the species being as advanced as they were I'm sure the promethians would know this hence the waiting for a very long time to repopulate
And aside the flood would of spread out and still be a threat with spores
humble yacht
They didn’t wait to begin reintroduction of species
They started soon after the firing. It was just a big project so it took centuries
They also spread Solute across the galaxy before firing the rings so that all the dead bodies would disappear instead of sitting there and ruining environments
stable schooner
Forerunners took too many Flood Samples imo. One Shield World at max would have been enough.
stable schooner
Obligatory “Ah snap here we go again” also why do you keep saying Promeatheans Ethical and not Forerunners
feral perch
Prometheans were not responsible for constructing the Halo array
versed helm
Guys, Prometheans are just the warrior class of the forerunners. They had little-to-no say in what happened within the forerunner ecumene. It was the Librarian, a Lifeworker who decided it best to preserve some flood samples. The forerunners found out during the human-forerunner war why humanity was fighting and still wiped them back to the stone age. The forerunners ONLY chance of survival would have been to ally with humanity.
feral perch
That belonged to the Builders iirc
versed helm
I say that last sentence that way due to the fact that most forerunners that are still alive are thought to exist outside the galaxy in a small satellite galaxy.
feral perch
Really though, the Forerunners have only themselves to blame for the Flood. Don't commit genocide against your creator race out of jealousy.
It came back to bite them in the rear.
gilded mason
Ain't there conflicting views on that in-universe?
feral perch
I'm not sure.
versed helm
@gilded mason conflicting views of what? The Forerunner rebellion against the Precursors?
gilded mason
Like, there were some that tried to justify it, saying that the Precursors planned on wiping them all out.
feral perch
Is there reason to actually believe that?
It sounds like a typical excuse for preventative action
gilded mason
Probably
versed helm
Yes, in-lore they explained it by saying the Precursors intended to wipe them out, however, theres no evidence of that. The Precursors are usually shown to be caring and compassionate aliens. They created life, then wanted to appoint a species to protect the others. They were going to choose humanity, forerunners got butthurt, and killed them, and now we have the flood.
I have to get book 3 of the forerunner trilogy because its explained a lot of this very well.
feral perch
That's what I thought anyway.
stable schooner
What about that Precursor the humans found. He was a jerk, who’s to say the originals weren’t either.
versed helm
@stable schooner let me wipe out the rest of humanity and lock you in a cage for mellinnea. @feral perch and no, he states hes the last true Precursor.
@stable schooner youd be a jerk too
stable schooner
Well i wouldn’t take it out on Humanity my chosen successors
feral perch
He could have been lying, or insane.
versed helm
@stable schooner after this all happened they decided the Flood would be the last test to the successor of the mantle. The species that could defeat the flood at their strongest without defiling the mantle would claim it. But if the flood win, then everyone is one.
@feral perch I agree. But since everyone who knows is dead we just have to agree cause he had the only say in the matter.
feral perch
I don't think so, but he's the best candidate by default.
stable schooner
I’m starting to see why Chimera prefers the old Flood. I don’t think the Precursors were good but merely creators playing with their toys.
versed helm
@stable schooner in a sense yes. But ultimately they crave to make everyone unified. But if a species can best them, theyve accomplished their goal of showing the true inheritor of the mantle.
Overall it has a very Reaper from Mass Effect kinda feel to it I think.
stable schooner
Was in the back of my mind the whole conversation
versed helm
The old Flood probably never existed
feral perch
???
versed helm
@feral perch what lol
feral perch
The old Flood probably never existed?
versed helm
As in, while we experienced the Flood before they were elaborated on, the overall concept for what they were probably dated back internally to well beyond the point we knew about it.
stable schooner
I doubt back to CE Though
feral perch
Oh, so you're saying that a lot of what's in the Forerunner trilogy was already in concept years prior?
versed helm
I reckon they had some basis for what the Flood were and where they came from that wasn't too dissimilar to what Greg Bear wrote.
Probably at about the time the concept of the Gravemind came into being.
After all, the Precursors popped up in Halo 3-related material first.
stable schooner
I’d say Halo 3 Era at the earliest as you can tell a lot of ideas are only forming with it.
versed helm
The thing about the relationship between the games and the book is they both end up being canon. Some studios (Bungie) didnt care much about the books and wanted to focus on games. Then 343 comes along and says everything is canon, which is hard, since now you have lore discrepancies such as the fall of reach and halo reach. Now we have to decipher everything to make sense of it. Which is why 343 is branding all the new books as official lore to give us more knowledge of current and prior events in the halo universe
stable schooner
Wasn’t Bungie against ODSTs for a while.
unique rune
Bungie was initially opposed to adding them in Halo 2, yeah.
Took some convincing.
Bungie in general was opposed to other people/studios working on Halo, if I remember correctly. They didn't want The Fall of Reach to get published, but Microsoft said no. Pretty sure they weren't big on Halo Wars either.
stable schooner
Yet they had the gall to make Halo 3 ODST, the nerve I swear lol.
versed helm
They warmed to the idea once they put their own spin on it, I don't doubt.
It's actually just like the idea of the "old Flood".
Before Halo 2, it'd be very easy to interpret ODSTs like Starship Trooper MI more than anything else.
Especially given Dietz's take on them.
agile lotus
Bungie certainly had their fears realized with 4 and 5, but considering Infinite, I believe we might be better off than the series dying at 3/Reach
versed helm
Helljumpers as we know them are quite distinct - their black body armour, their SOEIVs.
Originally, if I recall correctly, the idea was that their HEVs were a heck of a lot like MI capsules.
About the only thing that they really retained in Halo 2 is the fact that they're part of the Marine Corps and elements of their hardcore ethos.
stable schooner
Man Imagine Delta Halo just being Silent Cartographer 2.0 instead. The Horror. ODSTs made the mission.
last anchor
They've learned since then I think.
TBH, the idea of ODSTs as Mobile Infantry is pretty darn cool.
(Imagines ODSTs flying over Covenant firing mini-nukes from powered armor)
"Live forever, apes!"
remote spruce
I don't think they ever learned
One could argue there's nothing to learn and they were justified
warped gust
Cryptum was good, didn't like the cliffhanger ending, also the last chapter seemed a little rushed
Onto book two
fair hazel
I saw online some debate about a Hannibal scorpion against 3 droid tanks. At one kilometer distance.
The responses are a bit ugh. At what certain people seem to say.
It’s clear to me that the Hannibal takes it.
last anchor
Wait really. What...
Okay lets try this again...
In Star Wars terms, its armed with a scaled down turbolaser.
Considering AATs are not proof against those (since defensive ones can knock them out) I think a Hannibal would be more than capable of handling all three with ease.
Im more curious about how the gauss machine gun would fair.
fair hazel
I also doubt the accuracy of the AAT at long range
So many people kept doubting AI assist in tank, and stuff...
last anchor
Last I checked, they're piloted by B-1s.
No AI aiming, just the raw targeting of the droid pilots.
B1s are notoirously inaccurate.
Also, Im pretty sure you can't go hull-down in an ATT. Might not on a Scorpion, sure, but you can still kind of get it.
fair hazel
Hannibal is quite the tank.
last anchor
To be entirely honest Im pretty sure a baseline Scorpion could handle itself well. Repulsorlift vehicles do not handle sudden shifts in momentum well.
Such as, say, getting hit in the forward armor with a 90mm tungston round.
versed helm
Oohrah
simple portal
"How does 90mm of tungsten strike ya?"
limpid meadow
Pretty hard, I imagine
Which reminds me: I wonder why Bungie decided to make the Scorpion a 90mm tank?
limpid meadow
Oh, if it's come up before, then ignore me
modest marsh
Well it’s not really something that bothers me really it’s just seems like a prevalent topic
The Doylist reason is obviously aesthetics
limpid meadow
What's more aesthetic about 90mm over 120mm?
modest marsh
I mean, they chose what the Scorp looks like first before saying “yeah it shoots x type of munition”
limpid meadow
I get that. The aesthetic argument just doesn't make sense to me though.
modest marsh
The barrel width probably just worked better with a smaller shell after they already made the model
They made the cannon small to fit a specific profile they had in mind and added the detail of its armament ad hoc
The original scorpion design had a much bigger cannon with a more realistic art style
buoyant sigil
We need the grizzly tank in halo infinite
simple portal
Cobra is my absolute favorite ground vehicle
rustic canyon
Iwouldn't mind being able to get Kisano's cyclops to roam around in
simple portal
Many HW1 vehicles should come back
buoyant sigil
I want to commandeer a scarab in Infinite
storm oasis
I want to play as a scarab in Infinite
buoyant sigil
Same
buoyant sigil
Gravemind tentacles vs scarab scene
storm oasis
It’d be awesome to be able to play as any member of the Covenant as a separate class in a new firefight mode vs. the UNSC
They could incorporate some features that we don’t see in the actual game
stoic hamlet
They’d probably all die super easily
I wouldn’t mind seeing stuff they use incorporated into gameplay though. Like, in the lore Spartans routinely used Jackal Energy Shields even after they got their MJOLNIR Mark V’s.
simple portal
thats sick
limpid meadow
That would be an absolute dream
carmine sleet
If they add the Jackal shield as a usable object in Infinite, I would be very happy
carmine sleet
That would be nice. I know that after Reach, their numbers were vastly reduced but it would be nice to see some appear
simple portal
What happened after reach?
remote spruce
Halo CE?
Oh Skirmishers
Basically most of them were killed during Reach
Not after
carmine sleet
I meant that after Reach, there were allot less than there were before. I should've worded what I said better
ebon lynx
Helloooo
gilded mason
Yes?
stable schooner
I don’t get it where the entire Skrimisher population deployed on Reach. Just how big were Covenant casualties on Reach. Substantial if it endangered a sub species.
gilded mason
I know, right? That sounds really weird.
stable schooner
Right it makes no sense. Only 1 month of fighting and we don’t even see Skirmishers in every engagement. We’re talking about an entire race here.
humble yacht
what if it turned out that 80% of all skirmishers were chilling out on the Long Night of Solace before the... incident.
gilded mason
Why would 80% of all Skirmishers be on one ship?
carmine sleet
Because they were having a gathering of their species to celebrate how many of them there was?
gilded mason
Oh okay. 😋
humble yacht
Species-wide holiday
stable schooner
Lol had to be a killer party
humble yacht
oh it was killer alright
carmine sleet
Aye, I hear their parties are to die for
humble yacht
When you party with Skirmishers, it's like you're taken to another plane of existence
carmine sleet
Sometimes literally
humble yacht
the event horizon of the year
limpid meadow
I think 343 just needs to retcon that whole "tons of Skirmishers were killed on Reach" nonsense.
gilded mason
Indeed
humble yacht
it largely was
limpid meadow
Yep. The basics are pretty much all set in stone now.
It's only the details that need ironing out
gilded mason
Though it's just a bit weird that John and the others had no idea that the planet was under seige for an entire month while they did their training exercises and stuff, none the wiser.
obsidian thistle
Oh the Skirmishers nonsense isnt even canon. XD @limpid meadow It was a interviewer taking a Bungie statement outta context lol.
limpid meadow
Okay. Might want to put a note about that on Halopedia (if it's not there already). That still makes its way around
@gilded mason Mainly because the fighting was kept to the North-Eastern end of Vierry, far away from CASTLE Base
humble yacht
I think halopedia does mention that already
limpid meadow
They saw extensive action during the Fall of Reach, and as a result of catastrophically high casualties, the Skirmisher ranks were utterly exhausted
humble yacht
though the subspecies as a whole did survive
obsidian thistle
Note to self fix that asap
humble yacht
right after
obsidian thistle
When I get home.
humble yacht
next section:
Despite the amount of T'vaoans that died in the Human-Covenant War, many still remain.
obsidian thistle
I hate that its this "Bungie tells us they are relatives of the Jackals and that the race went extinct during the battles that took place on Reach."
Like I'd prefer the actual quote. XD
obsidian thistle
"Bungie tells us" is like me saying "343i told me I am canon." XD
humble yacht
is it a translated article?
obsidian thistle
obsidian thistle
But yea I have to remove that article as a source as its not a source. Its hearsay essentially that the wiki didnt help. Oops
humble yacht
I don't know about removing the article. It's still a source, just not one that does a good job explaining
limpid meadow
Well, the article says all the Skirmishers perished, which they clearly didn't.
humble yacht
might be better to alter the halopedia text to say that there have been suggestions that Skirmishers lost many of their numbers
limpid meadow
Plus it's a piss-poor explanation that doesn't explain anything
The Kilo-5 trilogy depicted numerous Skirmishers post-war with no mention of any significant loss during the war.
humble yacht
yeah but that's also a post-bungie piece of fiction. At the time of that article, Bungie could have very well intended for Skirmishers to be made extinct on Reach
Which, if that were the case, would make the reappearance of Skirmishers in later fiction a retcon
which is fine, but you don't erase preretcon sources, you just disclaim that they no longer represent the current canon
humble yacht
the game reactor article is closer to being a source
obsidian thistle
Its "Bungie told us" which is very hard to prove.
humble yacht
yeah but there's no reason to believe it's a fake article
obsidian thistle
Regardless the wiki team kinda agree both sources are "Not the best".
humble yacht
it's just not a well done article
well, ultimately, halopedia is a fan curated source of info, so you do what you gotta do. i just don't believe in erasing sources simply because they're not written the best
obsidian thistle
What if the news article was wrong or recorded the info wrong. Thats the doubt here.
Due to that. Is it really a reliable source if the info was never right at all.
humble yacht
if it were me, i'd first seek to prove that the info in the article was, in fact, erroneous or incorrectly reported
Given the changing of the guard with Halo, I can see how the article is now outdated but could have been right at the time
obsidian thistle
The major issue here is. We cant prove a lot of stuff from that period. Interviews and tours came and went back then
Its kinda sad :(
last anchor
This kinda reminds me of the "Brute Ghost" mistake about the Chopper back in the day
limpid meadow
Well, the article say Skirmishers were wiped out. New-lore proves otherwise. I think it's pretty open and closed.