There wasn't any ambiguity about it.
#lore-and-universe
gilded mason
storm flume
Jun?
gilded mason
Jun is alive.
storm flume
Yeah he's still around
storm flume
He helped found the Spartan-IV project
gilded mason
He's a Spartan recruiter now
gilded mason
They are Spartan 3s.
hollow elbow
But what makes them so special then the other spartan 3s
stable schooner
Man Jun escorting Halsey was a mistake for the plot
gilded mason
But what makes them so special then the other spartan 3s
Nothing
hollow elbow
BUT THEY WERE JUST INTRODUCED IN THE LORE??
storm flume
Yeah?
gilded mason
Yes, recently-ish
humble yacht
New characters get created all the time
carmine sleet
They just happened not to die in any of their operations, outside of that, they're just run of the mill S-IIIs
storm flume
Spartan-IIIs are much more numerous than IIs
humble yacht
Don’t see why they would be
gilded mason
What?
humble yacht
Infinite isn’t a story about them
hollow elbow
I’m aware
shrewd trout
I mean they could be there
in theory
just unlikely
hollow elbow
Thank you @shrewd trout
shrewd trout
no prob man
hollow elbow
In theory there’s got to be a part where you come across them in the game maybe
Just like venator said unlikely
storm flume
"got to" "unlikely"
humble yacht
There doesn’t have to be a part in the game where you meet them
hollow elbow
True
carmine sleet
Not necessarily. We saw Spartans introduced in Hunters in the Dark, neither of them ended up making an appearance outside of that novel
hollow elbow
In lore they helped found outpost discovery
Or where assigned there
That’s true
But everyone thought that with Jun but he made an appearance in reach
shrewd trout
if you aren't a Frank Kodiak stan then we can't be friends😤
carmine sleet
Jun was introduced in Reach and expanded upon in later media
storm flume
Oh has it been confirmed which ring the Outpost Discovery thing takes place on?
humble yacht
Jun’s appearances after reach have been in comics
stable schooner
Best Reach death in your opinions?
hollow elbow
True
shrewd trout
no just the one comic
inner basin
I thought OD was based on Delta Halo
shrewd trout
Initiation
hollow elbow
None Noble team should have lived they were freaking dope
shrewd trout
NOBLE Team 2 when
hollow elbow
@stable schooner
carmine sleet
Noble Team living wouldn't have made Reach's story as impactful as it was
stable schooner
Carters death gets me every time. The rest I’m ehhh.
shrewd trout
@inner basin Delta is a little glassy right now
hollow elbow
True
humble yacht
Jun is mentioned in new blood and bad blood
inner basin
I don’t think it is @shrewd trout
stable schooner
Jorge their was peace and satisfaction with his death, Kat just got Sniped, Emile went out like a punk. Jun is alive and Noble 6 kinda just wanted to die at that point.
inner basin
The flood were killed and after the war it was fine. There are research bases on Delta Halo too
shrewd trout
yeah
how do you think they killed the Flood?
hollow elbow
I HIGHLY think that the Flood is still alive
inner basin
Do you know what Sentinels are?
hollow elbow
Yes
inner basin
Not you Anthony
hollow elbow
Ooh okie
shrewd trout
bruh I'm telling you that Delta Halo was glassed by the Sangheili
stable schooner
But they couldn’t defeat the flood
hollow elbow
Oh delta oh hell yeah
stable schooner
Sentinel wall ultimately proved a failure
inner basin
Yes and I’m pretty sure it’s repaired or may not even be damaged from the glassing beam
hollow elbow
True
stable schooner
Unless Gravemind took all the Flood with him to High Charity i Imagine the Sentinels are still fighting inside the wall.
storm flume
Isn't Delta Halo supposed to be under strict quarantine by the UNSC and SoS?
shrewd trout
you see animals and foliage on the ring in Outpost Discovery
gilded mason
Isn't Delta Halo supposed to be under strict quarantine by the UNSC and SoS?
Yes
humble yacht
Gravemind took the majority to high charity
Any flood left behind would have reverted to feral stage
Not nearly as dangerous
carmine sleet
But still enough of a threat to warrant quarantine
stable schooner
True so their probably properly contained in the wall now
inner basin
Okay I’m wrong it actually is glassed but is under works of being decommissioned which would mean that it would have to be somewhat habitable
stable schooner
Which makes part of the Ring still a threat if any race tries to go there again.
Heck what happened to the monitor
hollow elbow
Man the monitors were corrupted
inner basin
That’s a good question
stable schooner
I doubt Gravemind destroyed him
humble yacht
In all likelihood, gravemind destroyed penitent tangent or took him along to HC
carmine sleet
05's monitor was likely destroyed during Halo 3 if Gravemind didn't destroy him
hollow elbow
“Him” you mean “it” @stable schooner
stable schooner
Male voice Male bot in my eyes
hollow elbow
Ahhh
inner basin
Assuming genders in 2552
carmine sleet
Outside of Black Box, all known AI we've seen has either a male or female voice
hollow elbow
True
carmine sleet
And even then, Black Box had the guy who voiced Darth Maul originally as his voice during Hunt the Truth so technically, you could say he's a male
inner basin
Doesn’t mean that they have a gender, unless it’s the case of Spark who technically used to be a human male and in Retribution has been given the male designation by the crew I believe
stable schooner
Shame if he’s dead I know he was a incompetent monitor but every monitor death is a loss.
shrewd trout
for the sake of simplicity I refer to Black Box as male
inner basin
Wait wrong book not Retribution, I forget it’s name
carmine sleet
Renegades
inner basin
Yes thank you. I was literally searching Kelly up to find her latest Halo book
hollow elbow
Hmm I’m gonna have to start reading all the halo books
From@the beginning to the end
Commics and all
inner basin
It’ll take a while
hollow elbow
Hey man I’m 20 years old
stable schooner
When it comes to Retcons I would prefer Black Team to be brought back. And honestly Noble 6 dying really didn’t feel significant to me he’s a Spartan 3 with no ties to Reach.
hollow elbow
All I have is time
gilded mason
I think he means the character's history.
inner basin
Would like info on his background but I also like the mystery at the same time
stable schooner
Exactly he has basically no character so him being brought back or dead for ever are equal to me.
storm flume
@hollow elbow Same. I'm on Lone Wolf now and after I finish that up I'm continuing the novels
stable schooner
It’s not like Jorge’s death. Which I felt meant something for his character
gilded mason
But the books and games in chronological order
Say again?
inner basin
Six’s death scene could be left mysterious (unknown) but writing that in would be very difficult after he’s confirmed dead
humble yacht
Jorge and 6 are the same in the sense that they are tied to Reach by being introduced and retired on the planet
storm flume
The Forerunner trilogy first technically. But I would prefer starting with Contact Harvest if I could re-experience it
hollow elbow
Like the books and games in chronological order are in what order?
humble yacht
the difference being that Jorge has one line where he acknowledges Reach
stable schooner
We know Jorge was raised up on Reach It’s not the same.
inner basin
Reach was his home
stable schooner
Jorge also had the big brother character peaceful type it was more fitting.
gilded mason
Like the books and games in chronological order are in what order?
It'd be best to read everything in release order instead of chronological order, if that's where you were going with that.
storm flume
^ that's how I'm doing it
hollow elbow
@gilded mason but I want the whole thing to make sense to me
gilded mason
That'd be release order, then
storm flume
With the novels at least
humble yacht
Then it's probably more appropriate to say that it didn't really matter where 6 died. He could have died anywhere and it would have had the same impact since he didn't have a "home"
stable schooner
That’s what I think
humble yacht
but for him to be brought back would still be bad
hollow elbow
So that would be like Halo the Flood etc. etc.
humble yacht
it's one thing to not matter where you die; it's another to not matter if you die
inner basin
Does anyone else think that Reach (in a way) was an inside job (but not intentional) and rather poorly defended in terms of strategy
gilded mason
Here's all the books in release order:
https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_novels
stable schooner
If it isn’t shown onscreen you can always find a way. Heck they brought back Darth Maul and people love it now.
gilded mason
Does anyone else think that Reach (in a way) was an inside job (but not intentional) and rather poorly defended in terms of strategy
I had heard something about that. Like, ONI or somebody had intentionally led them there. But it's been a long time since I read it so I have no idea of the source of it
humble yacht
Yeah but with Maul, it's a little different
inner basin
It’s a bit of a mess but I read about this supposed conspiracy. I’m very fuzzy on the details but that’s one of the things that stuck with me, the main point of the video, Ostral
humble yacht
the circumstances were more ambiguous
storm flume
The fact that the Spartan-IIs didn't even know Reach was being invaded until the last few days really irks me
humble yacht
and he wasn't eulogized
gilded mason
I felt Maul's return was also contrived.
humble yacht
maybe but it was mitigated by the awesome performance of Sam Witwer
shrewd trout
We've run some numbers based on the Covenant's movement pattern over the last nine months and the results are... well, not good. Epsilon Eridani is at 87.2% probability of intersect within the next five months. Eight-seven percent. It's never been that high.
stable schooner
But it worked and he was cut in Half while falling down a hole
shrewd trout
From Data Drop 3
humble yacht
yeah but we already knew that people in star wars could survive those kind of injuries
inner basin
Holding the Spartan-IIs back for Red Flag and waiting until half the planet had been invaded before rapidly deploying them was a terrible tactic, especially since they couldn’t initiate Red Flag as the level 5 Ship didn’t come to the other side of the planet
gilded mason
yeah but we already knew that people in star wars could survive those kind of injuries
We did?
humble yacht
Vader was a cyborg
stable schooner
This no else in Canon got rekted as bad as Maul did.
inner basin
Vader was rescued relatively quickly
humble yacht
in terms of wreckage
stable schooner
He wasn’t cut in half.
gilded mason
Yeah, he lost his limbs and had to get extensive surgery from the best Sheev had to offer
carmine sleet
Vader was burnt alive and lost more limbs than Maul
humble yacht
he lost all his limbs and was burnt alive
gilded mason
But Maul was cut in half and fell down a really big hole
inner basin
Plus he was made a cyborg, but how was Maul brought back? Was he a cyborg too or some what normal?
stable schooner
But I agree Sith Are known to live through terrible stuff I don’t find Maul surviving that bad
storm flume
When did this become a star wars channel lol
inner basin
It’s a deep comparison
carmine sleet
Falls in Star Wars aren't known to kill people, just look at Luke in Empire, falls for a long time yet suffers no injuries from the fall
humble yacht
The difference between maul and 6 is that as maul fell, he was still alive, and he disappears and is left for dead by Obi wan
6 on the other hand is murdered by elites. the cutaway is done for tastefulness
inner basin
That cutaway has really caused a lot of arguments, probably the most controversy, ever (for Halo).
stable schooner
Right before Sword hand falls On 6 ODST Snipes Zealot. Bam Six Lives begin Halo Reach 2.
humble yacht
it's more ridiculous to assume that he fought off all those elites off screen and escaped Reach than it is to assume that Maul was able to keep his guts in and crawl to a scrap heap and assemble spider legs
not to mention, being a Force user makes anyone much more resilient
none of that meme
carmine sleet
We also already have Reach 2, it's called Combat Evolved
stable schooner
A Halo Reach 2 that is Basically Six being present during First Strike would be cool and acceptable Retcon. Not on Reach
humble yacht
the force is a macguffin to be sure but one that we all understand and accept to be a macguffin
stable schooner
But again 6 isn’t important to me this is just fun scenarios
humble yacht
i think it's important he stay dead
hollow elbow
What?!
inner basin
Imagine if Six was retconned to be on the PoA but takes a Longsword and flies away
humble yacht
retconing his story would require retconning all of of Halo Reach
inner basin
Well not all
humble yacht
too much work for fanservice
inner basin
^ But yeah
stable schooner
Just the very last Optional mission and the cutscene
carmine sleet
Fan service works when it doesn't ruin previous material for the sake of being fan service. Something like bring back Six is not worth it for fan service and would more than likely anger people more than anything else
storm flume
Should I read Forerunner and Kilo-Five books in succession (i.e. Cryptum, Primordium, Silentium), or alternating (like release date)
humble yacht
stick to one arc at a time
inner basin
I always liked the idea of Six’s fate being left up to the player, shame it was confirmed by Bungie and then by 343 when they took Halo’s mantle.
gilded mason
It was even confirmed by the game itself.
inner basin
Well not necessarily. You can be very creative with ideas that aren’t entirely plausible
stable schooner
Jun and a Squad Of Odsts Save Wounded Six. Get Taken to where Halsey is. Shenanigans assume and then 6 dies for Real saving Blue Team. I just don’t think Six was a good enough of a character to me immune to Retcons like Maul before Sam Witwer.
humble yacht
that eulogy is pretty telling
gilded mason
I wish you could have lived to see it. But you belong to Reach. Your body, your armor — all burned and turned to glass. Everything… except your courage.
humble yacht
even if you survive for 3 days on Lone Wolf, that cutscene still plays eventually
gilded mason
This is pretty black and white
inner basin
Well how does Halsey know. That’s an assumption
gilded mason
Uh
humble yacht
she could have found the proof
gilded mason
Eh
humble yacht
it's not realistic
inner basin
Halsey’s assumption isn’t realistic?
humble yacht
no, the assumption he could have survived
inner basin
I think you misinterpreted what I said Chimera. I was saying Halsey’s assumption is realistic
humble yacht
6's helmet is pretty close to the eulogy site
stable schooner
If 6 dies before the Attack on Earth it could still work. I’m just saying their is always a way to circumvent our expectations
humble yacht
she also said his armor was there on Reach
I wouldn't be surprised if they left his helmet and armor where they were as like a grave marker
also because they probably were unsalvagable'
stable schooner
If it improves the story I would be for 6 being back but he’s not a meaningful enough of a character to do that for in my opinion.
inner basin
But I don’t think she saw any of this. In the eulogy she is assuming Six died and his armour was glassed
gilded mason
It's pretty obvious the eulogy is supposed to be definitive
humble yacht
Eulogies are given on site
She's not phoning it in
or talking to herself in a jail cell
inner basin
She may have not been arrested at that time.
What date is the epilogue anyways? I can’t remember
gilded mason
July 7, 2589
stable schooner
Heck I’m surprised she managed to live that long
inner basin
That’s quite a long ways away. How can she tell if anything is there
humble yacht
spartan armor is not bio degradable
inner basin
Surely it would be buried though. I don’t see any holes dug
humble yacht
the glassing probably removed the ability of the wind to move debris for a long time
inner basin
But there was grass in the area of his death
humble yacht
barely
it was a light brush around the helmet
not indicative of longstanding growth
stable schooner
Reaches whole story is a mess but talking about messes do we know if Delta Halo/ Installation 05 would hit Earth.
inner basin
I mean at the time of the eulogy
humble yacht
yes
like i said
not a lot of grass
reterraforming processes had likely not been going on that long
inner basin
You may need to check an image of it. I just searched it an it’s quite a lot
humble yacht
i'm looking at it right now
storm flume
Lol imagine if they went through the trouble of trying to stop it and it wouldn't have even killed any human worlds
stable schooner
Cause how would Truth live if Tartarus activates 05
humble yacht
i see patches of yellowish grass around the helm
inner basin
I see a decent amount of grass for a glassed area
humble yacht
the patch of earth the colony ship is on still looks barren
gilded mason
Lol imagine if they went through the trouble of trying to stop it and it wouldn't have even killed any human worlds
The others follow suit after activation.
inner basin
Well the area surrounding him looks like it hasn’t been glassed as grass wouldn’t grow in a glassed area
Or at least the helmet
humble yacht
If tartarus had been successful, the whole array would have fired
so yes, earth would have got hit
Tactical pulses are not the default setting
the default setting sets off the whole array
stable schooner
Exactly so they would all be dead Truth wouldn’t make it to the ARK
storm flume
Huh. I was under the impression they can only all fire from the Ark.
humble yacht
nope
versed helm
Makes you wonder why Truth felt the need to hit Earth instead of helping Tartarus succeed.
humble yacht
the ark is a backup plan
inner basin
That seems like a lot of power to have on an Installation
versed helm
Okay sure xD
humble yacht
Gravemind did that and look what happened to him
versed helm
But I feel as if you're not quite visualizing that one fully.
stable schooner
Also I’m confused I thought it just put the other Rings on Standby I mean the Ring was extremely close to firing
humble yacht
he could have spread across the galaxy but he got scared and sent all his forces to the Ark
The other rings went on standby because the firing sequence was prematurely halted
inner basin
The Gravemind made a bad tactical decision
stable schooner
Gravemind got the Halo 3 Effect
gilded mason
Gravemind got the Halo 3 Effect
Yup
versed helm
Point about Gravey boy tho - he plays the long game.
In the long run ensuring all life wasn't wiped out may have been more profitable than dithering
humble yacht
in the sense that he assumes eventually he'll come back, yes
inner basin
That’s what the flood do when starting to infect a galaxy. Look at how they disappeared during the Human-Forerunner war
stable schooner
Gravemind caused the Ark to get closer to firing all Rings
versed helm
In the sense that he probably knows he will come back at some point, Chimera.
humble yacht
that's what I said
versed helm
You like taking him down a peg, don't cha?
stable schooner
He smashed the Shadow Of Intent that was about to Glass The Control Room
versed helm
You said assumed lol
humble yacht
it is an assumption
humble yacht
unless he can see the future, it's an assumption
it can be a likely assumption based on precedent but still assumed
stable schooner
Tell me how preventing a Glassing of the Control Room was a good idea.
versed helm
You can be more sure of something that has not yet come to pass than an assumption.
For one, as you alluded, there's premonition.
humble yacht
you can be but to an outside observer (aka the player), it's an assumption
and we've never seen precognative abilities in Halo as of yet
inner basin
It wasn’t. The plot demanded more Johnson so he wasn’t glassed @stable schooner
versed helm
I think it's presumptuous language is all, given the context.
stable schooner
Gravemind killed Miranda and Halo 3 bad writing killed Both.
inner basin
Halo 3’s writing wasn’t the best, but I wouldn’t say it was bad. It’s just to prolong the story and make it more interesting.
stable schooner
Bro Everything until the Ark was filler
humble yacht
eh
inner basin
If the control room was glassed it’d be a horrible ending to the story
versed helm
🤔
humble yacht
the earth levels were a natural continuation off of Halo 2
if we had just started at the ark, people would be like "how did we get here?"
stable schooner
That led no where. Sierra 117 is the most pointless first mission in the entire franchise
versed helm
It's not filler if you're having fun shooting things, either.
stable schooner
That’s not writing Looters
inner basin
I mean we learn of the Ark in Halo 2 so it had to be included by default for H3
versed helm
Whatever you think, dude.
humble yacht
maybe halo 3 could have started at the storm
stable schooner
All the Intelligent characters in 2 were made dumb for Plot. I’m not saying it’s Halo 5 bad but easily worst then Halo 1 and 2.
In regards to story
humble yacht
like have a pelican pick up chief instead of going through the forest
but at the very least we needed establishment that Truth was searching for something on earth that ended up being the portal to the Ark
inner basin
Well Halo 2 was dumbed down. We now know that Delta Halo could’ve been used to light all the rings but it wasn’t
stable schooner
Second mission was defending a base that had became irrelevant anyways.
versed helm
I think you're all missing the big question though.
How would overriding the In Amber Clad's fusion reactor in Halo 2 take out 05?
humble yacht
unclear
versed helm
Mhm.
stable schooner
Detonate High Charity which next to the Ring could probably damage it.
humble yacht
maybe Cortana expected the explosion to cause a chain reaction on high charity that would also damage the ring by proximity
stable schooner
Amber Clad<High Charity<Ring
versed helm
Seems like a stretch.
stable schooner
Detonating a Entire ship damaged Halo 04 in CE. It would utterly demolish High Charity which directly orbited 05.
versed helm
In Halo CE it took the PoA burning away on the surface of the ring, and even then the ring probably only went up because it burned through power-carrying systems and the ring's accumulated energy released.
fading timber
More like Bye Charity.
humble yacht
Maybe she would have timed the detonation for when HC was right next to the ring
Gosh darn it grim
gilded mason
grim no i cri
versed helm
I'm suddenly awed beyond measure
stable schooner
I mean an Astroid the size of High Charity would completely wreck Earth. It blowing up in 05s face would do something.
humble yacht
Grim is a literal pundit
fading timber
humble yacht
Cause he punned it
fading timber
gilded mason
versed helm
Hard to imagine it actually cutting into the ring, though, in the way Cortana alludes to with the PoA when you're leaving the Control Room.
Wouldn't the shrapnel just sorta
Sploosh on the ring's surface?
I dunno maybe it's in Mythos or something
humble yacht
The force of the explosion of PoA essentially cracked installation 04
fading timber
Depends on how fast it was going, size of the debris, what side it hits, etc
humble yacht
But we don’t know how far away that explosion could have been and still have that effect
fading timber
Indeed.
stable schooner
2s only major plotHole ignoring any post lore since it came out is the whole mess in Sacred Icon And Quarantine Zone.
fading timber
?
stable schooner
You Monster
gilded mason
Oh yeah, Grim. Vien sends his regards. 😉
And is sad he can't do it himself.
versed helm
I'd argue Truth's actions were slightly bizarre surrounding 05 but I've long been a Truth conspiracy theorist so it doesn't bother me. @stable schooner - Quarantine Zone is alright in my head now.
After playing it a bit.
stable schooner
Specifically Sacred Icon
humble yacht
I think truth expected Tartarus to fail
fading timber
During the Covenant era? I would imagine so.
humble yacht
😮
gilded mason
Neat
stable schooner
If we’re talking about the Covenant Era why would a Spec Ops Commander who obeys a Zealot Command Zealots Grim.
versed helm
Zealots are useful troops tho
Sometimes they seem organically attached to not particularly zealot-y units
Like on 04
stable schooner
Pssh more like TrollBrotherone. All Zealots in CE are never seen with Spec Ops
versed helm
🤷
stable schooner
Also you Sly Dog Chimera
fading timber
Yeah zealots are a weird thing, there are various roles and orders that can be utilized in a variety of different ways. And I'm saying Rtas likely could have commanded or used them in his employ on various occasions depending on the need or mission.
humble yacht
So theoretically there could have been zealots off screen in rtas’s fleet during halo 3?
stable schooner
I can’t accept that I’m sorry never in the lore or Games is that seen.
humble yacht
Just like there were unseen ultras in his fleet off screen
fading timber
A zealot isnt necessarily exclusively a rank.
gilded mason
Release a Covenant guidebook that includes this kinda stuff, Grim. ❤
stable schooner
Get out of Here Chimera Bungie cut the Zealots out Of Halo 3 Their was no Zealots in Rtas Fleet.
humble yacht
New covenant rank: vindicator
versed helm
I imagine they may have kicked up something of a fuss - or maybe they just thought brutes were a pain so they went along with it.
fading timber
Bouncing to charge my phone, thought I'd pop in to say hey... take care lore liaisons!
gilded mason
Farewell
versed helm
I never got to ask about MA5 bullets noooooo
stable schooner
Farewell that ByeCharity joke was cringley funny to me.
versed helm
Next time
stable schooner
Also you heard it from Grim Zealots are a class take that Zealot Rank Believers
gilded mason
Think that was talked about before
stable schooner
Yeah and someone swore up and down it was a Rank.
versed helm
But field marshals are also zealots so they were wrong
stable schooner
Exactly
stable schooner
Arbiter was a Zealot and Supreme Commander
humble yacht
I feel like you were the one who asserted it being a rank
stable schooner
Also just you wait Chimera when the day comes I’ll give you those Halo 3 Zealots
No I argued up and down that they were a class even in the MCC forum
humble yacht
And therefore why rtas couldn’t have commanded any
versed helm
But rtas is a commander and zealots are soldiers
stable schooner
A extremely prestigious and high ranked Class
humble yacht
You also argued up and down that they would have never listened to rtas
versed helm
They don't just get to say no to him
stable schooner
And I still think they wouldn’t as a measly Spec Ops Commander and Ship Master.
humble yacht
Well I’m gonna go with the guy who literally writes the stuff over you
Enjoy your headcanon
🖐 🎤 ⬇
stable schooner
He didn’t write that lore and was clearly just saying what ever. Hey I wish your Head Canon was true
Good day
stable schooner
Turns out it isn’t
humble yacht
Want some fries with that salt?
stable schooner
I don’t you’ve already given me enough
stable schooner
In a non official casual chat I don’t take it as Canon
versed helm
Well, hard to please.
gilded mason
humble yacht
It’s ok. We know what’s real. You can’t force people to accept things
I can understand wanting to remain in the matrix
versed helm
I mean in the Matrix sure
stable schooner
Unless it Appears in a official Game, Novel, Comic, or Canon Update a mere statement is not Canon. Please no more you’ve already ruined the fries
humble yacht
Grim has made official canon declaration over Twitter, so discord is just as fair game
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe he’ll retcon it just for you
stable schooner
He said imagine so or it’s possible he didn’t say for sure so no means nothing.
You also put him on the spot so get off your high Horse.
humble yacht
Actually it’s a pale horse
versed helm
But legit question
Where does this supposition come from that zealots don't have to listen to military superiors just because they're in zealot club
humble yacht
Dunno
stable schooner
One out of the blue. Because they report to a whole different branch of the Covenant or are given their own high Ranked command positions
versed helm
I mean I have no doubt that the ranks of their order equate to high military ranks.
And it's entirely possible that they're oftentimes given the authority to ignore orders from high ranking sources.
But that'd be special cases.
stable schooner
Name me a time you saw a Covenant Zealot take commands from a Ultra
versed helm
Name me a time you saw an Elite minor take commands from a major.
You're being overly-specific.
stable schooner
Halo CE and Halo 2.
hollow elbow
hmm?
stoic hamlet
I’m guessing it’s because they’re noted as being of a different caste of warrior. Usually when such a distinction is made it generally denotes that they are part of a separate command structure.
I.E, an Inquisitor in 40K
versed helm
They're still part of the Covenant military - field marshals even have an integral role.
hollow elbow
wait wait what are we talking about?
stable schooner
You can see Majors giving commands to Minors and Halo 2 has specific spawns Of Majors leading minors.
humble yacht
I’m fine with that assessment. But after the schism, what does that structure matter?
versed helm
They would follow the orders of someone like Thel if they had no other orders.
stable schooner
Thel is the Arbiter
versed helm
Pre-schism, I mean.
humble yacht
Like any other elite, a zealot would be mad at the prophets and want revenge
versed helm
Evidently they were following his orders on 04.
hollow elbow
ohhh the elites?
stable schooner
Arbiter was a Supereme Commander on 04 and a Zealot
stoic hamlet
Realtalk though, they’d all have bowed to mah boi Xytan.
humble yacht
Theoretically Thel was on his ship floating off the ring the whole time
stable schooner
So those Zealots would have abandoned the fight over High Charity with their ships and go to Earth but they didn’t.
hollow elbow
I thought the arbiter was a field marshal
gilded mason
Nope
stoic hamlet
Which zealots @stable schooner
stable schooner
No Supreme Commander Of The Fleet Of Particular Justice might be wrong.
None that’s my point
stoic hamlet
Which zealots are you referring to?
stable schooner
The ones fighting against the Brutes around High Charity
stoic hamlet
Well quite a few Sangheili left and went to Xytan.....
Despite being at High Charity
stable schooner
You also notice Rtas doesn’t have any Assault Carriers under his command
hollow elbow
that's the one elite that has the ultra armor right @stable schooner
stoic hamlet
I don’t see how Rtas’s command has any relevance?
He captured SoI from the Brutes
hollow elbow
wait wait
gilded mason
What?
hollow elbow
im confused
stable schooner
He specifically says all the Ships under his command when he arrives in Earth.
humble yacht
Not every zealot is a shipmaster
stoic hamlet
He didn’t command every ship
hollow elbow
so the elite in the white armor in halo two in the phantom when we first met the arbiter
who was that?
gilded mason
Rtas
stable schooner
Yes that is Rtas
stoic hamlet
Rtas
hollow elbow
okay I just wanted to make sure
stable schooner
Spec Ops Commander with the messed up Mandible
versed helm
I mean any zealots following the Arbiter's forces at that point aren't really zealots anymore.
hollow elbow
didn't the arbiter and him become like good friends
gilded mason
Yes
humble yacht
Right
hollow elbow
i thought so
humble yacht
Cause zealot was a title awarded by covenant
Which after the schism was meaningless to elites
stoic hamlet
Yeah the distinction of “Zealot” doesn’t really matter post schism
stable schooner
They still follow the Elite Covenant Rank structure though.
humble yacht
Well, the ones who got woke at least
versed helm
So Rtas could easily have been given zealots to command during the era of the Covenant for the purposes of a specific mission, which is what Grim meant
stable schooner
In Halo 3
versed helm
I don't think Grim meant that he had hordes of zealots up his sleeve in Halo 3
humble yacht
But now we know zealot wasn’t a rank
hollow elbow
what about the honor guards? they weren't zealots were they?
gilded mason
No
versed helm
He might have had ex-zealots though
stable schooner
We always knew that
hollow elbow
i thought so
stable schooner
Field Marshall in Reach for ex
hollow elbow
the honor guards were like the top of the top right?
stable schooner
They didn’t hold command positions
humble yacht
So even if they follow rank structure during halo 3, doesn’t mean rtas couldn’t have had zealot equivalents in his fleet doing stuff off screen
gilded mason
They had a specific function, but I don't think I'd say top of the top.
stable schooner
Former non Zealot armor wearing Elites yes that’s fair.
hollow elbow
right but there combat ability was the best amongst the elites correct
humble yacht
Even zealot wearing ones
Just because they aren’t in halo 3’s files doesn’t mean they weren’t there in lore
stoic hamlet
The issue @versed helm (at least from my understanding, joined this convo late) is that Zealot isn’t a rank, it’s a separate caste, akin (IIRC) to another leader’s troops.
Like how armies were made up of various soldiers from different Lord’s Hosts.
I think? Unless I’ve completely messed up the Covenant structure.
stable schooner
I don’t think so. No Honer Guards are good but the best nah
Yes to what you said Canadian
stoic hamlet
So @stable schooner takes issue with the fact that Rtas would have commanded Zealots, who he shouldn’t have been able to command unless they were expressly ordered to follow him.
versed helm
But functionally wouldn't Zealots be more of a holy order though
As I said before
Like Knights Templar
humble yacht
Yes
stable schooner
The fact that Bungie had them but took them out is more lore to me then slim possibly
stoic hamlet
Yeah. But usually said holy orders are separate from the mainline military command.
versed helm
Well that's a very cut-and-dry way of putting it - things were rarely so simple in medieval Europe xD
But uh. I digress.
stoic hamlet
Depend on the order
humble yacht
But we also know that Bungie weren’t exactly super consistent with lore anyway
stable schooner
True
stoic hamlet
Hospitallers couldn’t for example
versed helm
Hey, the inconsistency in this department is coming from us
stable schooner
But they were with Elite Ranks in the Classic Trilogy.
hollow elbow
so then
humble yacht
So them not having zealots in 3 could have been anything from an oversight to a balance decision
hollow elbow
whose was the best of the best for the elites?
versed helm
We're just assuming that because these dudes are in a special order they'd be able to say no to a direct command from a military superior
Situationally that may be the case
stoic hamlet
Well he might not be a superior
We don’t know how they slot in rank wise
IIRC anyways
versed helm
But it's not unfeasible that Rtas at some point could've been direct command of Zealots for operational reasons
stoic hamlet
Aye
stable schooner
They report to a different prophet led branch
versed helm
He more or less had command of the Arbiter, kinda
versed helm
At least at the beginning of the raid over Threshold.
stoic hamlet
That could be how it was done
He didn’t have direct command, but had overall command
stable schooner
He was under Command Of the Arbiter a Zealot and Spec Ops don’t operate with other Covenant Forces. I could see Zealots assisting him but not being commanded by him
versed helm
I dunno. Zealots in general were pretty tough, had their own underlings and had good gear @hollow elbow
So yeah, they are generally pretty effective.
stoic hamlet
Again he had overall command but didn’t directly give Thel orders
stable schooner
Rtas is never shown commanding Zealots in any lore.
humble yacht
Arbiter lost his zealot title before the schism
stoic hamlet
It could be a similar situation regarding the zealots
stable schooner
Not during 04
humble yacht
The only reason rtas followed him after the schism was out of respect for uncovering the truth
stoic hamlet
Yeah no one had any reason to really follow him
stable schooner
Arbiters have been shown to be able to command Zealots its not the same
stoic hamlet
He was, tbh, relatively minor
Until all his competition either died or slinked away
stable schooner
Halo Wars 1
humble yacht
During the pre schism halo 2 missions, Thel was not ordering rtas
If anything, rtas was ordering Thel
stable schooner
Arbiter was assisting.
stoic hamlet
Because he Arbiter doesn’t really have a rank IIRC
versed helm
Question - what rank is "spec-ops commander" equivalent to?
In regular Covenant command structure.
obsidian thistle
Well
stoic hamlet
......Ultra maybe?
obsidian thistle
About that
obsidian thistle
Covie military cant be explained away easy now
stoic hamlet
It seems like it would be an Ultra equivalent.
obsidian thistle
Each fleet is different.
So an Ultra in one Fleet may be the equivalent to a Major in another.
stable schooner
Only similarity is white coloring. He was placed under the Commamd of Thel a Zealot but later Directly reported to the Prophets
stoic hamlet
That.....doesn’t really make sense? @obsidian thistle
There’s no way that would be sustainable
obsidian thistle
Thats kinda how messy it is.
versed helm
Proposition - spec-ops units also exist somewhat outside of normal Covenant command structure.
stoic hamlet
It would be impossible to have a chain of command
hollow elbow
WHAT ABOUT THE SILENT SHADOW????
gilded mason
WHAT ABOUT THE SILENT SHADOW????
What about them.
stable schooner
Problem with Covenant it’s a mixture of Fedual and Modern army Ideas
stoic hamlet
Same deal as Zealots @hollow elbow
hollow elbow
weren't they like the best of the best?
stoic hamlet
They operate outside the chain of command
stable schooner
Covenant has both Spec Ops and Knight Equivalents
stoic hamlet
But often have the ability to lead regular forces
versed helm
Anthony's on his own page - I think he's thinking about how tough they are.
Relatively speaking.
hollow elbow
yeahhhh
stoic hamlet
Unless you mean like rank wise?
stable schooner
Highest Elite Rank Class significance wise would probably be the Councilers
stable schooner
I know for one thing Councilers are the Strongest and most political Elites in Halo 2
obsidian thistle
At somepoint I aim to go over the structure again and make some overall logic to it all.
Get it to make some sense on the wiki
stable schooner
In my opinion it all made sense until Halo Reach
That’s when things got complicated
stable schooner
I mean Who commands who and what’s a Rank or Class or who’s branch is who and what does it Command doesn’t sound complicated to you?
versed helm
Yes, some minor variations exist in the exact nature of seemingly equivalent ranks between fleets, as CIA said
But for the most part there's a general ascending hierarchy
humble yacht
I don’t think it’s the end of the world if rtas was able to give orders to some zealots
versed helm
I mean we know he was from the mouth of Grim himself now
humble yacht
ESP during halo 3
stable schooner
He said a it’s possible not that it did happen
versed helm
Same thing in this context
obsidian thistle
The biggest loss is. We'd of likely gotten a lot of this lore from Ground Command if Spartan Games didnt die... thats where most of our understanding comes from.
versed helm
Spartan Games' death was a blow.
stable schooner
It didn’t happen in Halo 3 so I don’t believe it happened.
versed helm
The games are narrow slice of the universe m'dude
humble yacht
Yep
versed helm
You think only MA5Cs were used during the battle of Earth?
And only in the second bit?
humble yacht
There are a lot of things we don’t see in H3 that still happened
stoic hamlet
^^^^^^^
stable schooner
Doesn’t happen in the books neither from what I can see neither
versed helm
You gotta read between the lines
stoic hamlet
^^^^^^
versed helm
Visualize these things unfolding in a realistic manner
With all variables considered
stoic hamlet
Just because we don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen
stable schooner
No line has Rtas leading Zealots that insulting Looters
gilded mason
Insulting?
versed helm
Except for Grim literally just saying it was possible for him to do so
Man it's weird calling someone else Grim xD
stoic hamlet
Where did he mention it?
humble yacht
Probably because something like that hasn’t been necessary to explicitly showcase in the lore
stoic hamlet
Just wanna see the source
humble yacht
It suffices to be implied
stoic hamlet
Ah
versed helm
Or not scroll up
stable schooner
Here we go again i Guess Rtas Had Elite Combat Forms in his Fleet. That was a casual statement he didn’t say it from a official stance merely his thoughts
versed helm
Do a search
humble yacht
Because overall it’s not critical to anything one way or another
versed helm
Byzantine, that's awful logic
humble yacht
This is why this is a pointless convo
versed helm
There's a huge difference between Covenant religious order members working under a Covenant specialist officer and Flood working under a Covenant officer
It's a false equivalency
stable schooner
Jenkins in Halo the Flood
humble yacht
He wasn’t in service during infection
stable schooner
Either way no minds are gonna be changed so let’s move on this an argument that won’t make no headway
versed helm
Right.
humble yacht
He was in pain and debilitated and ultimately died
versed helm
Ahem.
stable schooner
But with the UNSC
humble yacht
It’s not like Johnson have him a gun while he was infected and sent him back on the front lines
stable schooner
Point is theirs as much lore to support Flood Combat Forms in Rtas Fleet as Zealots.
humble yacht
“Put that tentacle arm to work, marine!”
versed helm
NO
stable schooner
YES
versed helm
Byzantine you're mad if you think that's the case
That's not an argument made in good faith
There is a clear difference here
humble yacht
That’s not been established already?
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
It would be entirely possible in the Haloverse for a bunch of Covenant members to work together in any arrangement
But not for a fully infected Elite to chillax with uninfected Elites
There's you're lore support
I call it common sense lore
stable schooner
Their is a difference but not one that matters to the overall argument but I’m ready to stop it’s clear we won’t change each other’s mind. I bet you Think Rtas has Marines in his fleet to. I don’t thinks it’s possible and that’s that.
versed helm
Obviously I don't think that
humble yacht
(How apropos)
versed helm
You need to take a second and really think about your logic
gilded mason
You keep saying you want to stop but then add in weird things
humble yacht
Lol
versed helm
Sorry for being insulting or whatever, but I'm a little insulted myself at this point
Best if we do move on.
SO assault rifle ammunition!
obsidian thistle
Yes lets move on shall we. This is kinda going nowhere.
stable schooner
As Weird as Zealots in his fleet to me. Which is why I wish we could move on.
No head way is being made here
versed helm
Shut up then 😃
humble yacht
When trying to move on, best to stop trying to have the last word
humble yacht
Sounds like an enemy from Mario
obsidian thistle
If you want a interesting topic. How common do you think animals are on ships?
versed helm
Good question.
gilded mason
I imagine not uncommon
humble yacht
Not very
stable schooner
I agree with Ostral
humble yacht
I don’t see crew being allowed to have pets
versed helm
I was imagining the other day while I was on a run that larger UNSC ships might have almost petting-zoo type things. I dunno, maybe if more sensitive crew members find themselves suffering psychological issues from being away from their families and stuff.
gilded mason
There was at least one cat on the Autumn
versed helm
Just little efficiently run affairs that let lonely soldiers pet cats
Bizarre I know
stable schooner
Isn’t their a poster about a goose on the Autumn to
humble yacht
Maybe a couple people sneak a pet on board but seems like the exception, not the rule
hollow elbow
im at work currently learning more lore about halo lol
versed helm
I dunno. It'd be weird being on a UNSC ship.
There'd at least be counsellors and stuff.
Probably a double-duty thing.
But being in space is in-and-of-itself a psychological strain, y'know?
gilded mason
Indeed
versed helm
There would absolutely need to be allowances to try and retain a sense of normalcy and human warmth.
hollow elbow
hmmm
versed helm
Aaaaanyway.
Two cats and a goose.
Standard issue per ship.
Question answered.
343 retcon UNSC 7.62 ammo into being straight-walled thanx
👍
stable schooner
UNSC Should allow tigers aboard in case of Boarding lol . I’m surprised their isn’t more mind control tech in Halo.
versed helm
Really?
hollow elbow
lmao
versed helm
Mind control is kinda difficult to achieve remotely.
hollow elbow
true
hollow elbow
lmao
i just agreed with someone who knows nothing of the sort
wellll technically no cause in fallout 3 they mind controlled deathclaws
stable schooner
I mean theirs already forms of it in our world today and it’s a common tech in Sci fi
Yes Fallout has a lot of mind control Tech
versed helm
Fallout and Halo tend to have different standards of believability.
stable schooner
Star Wars to has mind control tech but it’s also more Space Fantasy
versed helm
Mass Effect does but it's kinda a specific thing and limited only to extremely highly advanced entities.
Y'know, indoctrination and all that.
hollow elbow
true but still
stable schooner
Alright here’s one do you think Halos lack of Fighter craft is realistic?
hollow elbow
hmmmm
technically yes
because their long sword is a bigger blue print of the F-22 Stealth raptor
versed helm
I mean I don't know exactly what's realistic since we don't make a habit of fighting in space yet
As a species
But there's one sci-fi book series - the Honor Harrington books - which have a pretty crazy sense of scale and self-contained logic to them, and in that universe they don't even bother with fighter craft at all.
they use what they call LACs, Light Attack Craft, which I believe are kinda longsword-esque jumbo-sized fighter thingos but possibly are a lot bigger.
Dogfighting in space - like proper dogfighting - would be pretty unusual, though.
Since range amplifies real hard and aerodynamics don't exist.
humble yacht
Borg sphere would probably be the best design for a pure space fighter. Things like longswords with inspirations from modern vehicles obviously have designs for things that function in atmospheres
versed helm
A borg sphere would be kinda inconvenient to arm and armour tbh
Especially with weapons that require a spinal mount
humble yacht
But I don’t see how you can bank in space like you do with a broadsword or Sabre
hollow elbow
sorry sorry
versed helm
I'd suggest gravitic manoeuvring.
hollow elbow
Sabre are like the F-22 Stealth raptors the USA Navy has
humble yacht
Yeah but the sphere could have propulsion jets all around the circumference allowing for best maneuvering in vacuum
versed helm
I think basically every ship in Halo only has thrusters for getting to travel speeds and probably do fine manoeuvring and orientation by imparting gravitational impulses to their own structures in a way that kinda simulates aerodynamism.
I mean, we don't see any manoeuvring thrusters, do we? Like ever?
humble yacht
Not that I remember
hollow elbow
'well yes kinda of
stable schooner
What about a ship solely designed to Ram
humble yacht
Yeah but we never see side propulsion jets that explain how the Sabre maneuvers
All we see are the rear engine
hollow elbow
IN Call Of Duty infinite warfare their space to space combat jets
humble yacht
That explains forward motion but you can turn, bank, and even roll and flip
hollow elbow
hhave the side jets
i know that's a bad like explaination but it does have space warefare
versed helm
Yeah. I'm thoroughly in the gravitic manoeuvring camp. If they can stick "lift assist" in a pelican they can do something more comprehensive in a space fighter.
humble yacht
Perhaps
versed helm
And they can sure as heck do something large-scale for bigger ships.
humble yacht
But it would be nice to get definitive explanation
versed helm
Though evidently there are limits, as we see with the Autumn at Aszod.
humble yacht
Cause all we can do now is speculate
versed helm
True.
hollow elbow
true
versed helm
it's crazy that Warfleet didn't answer this.
These are fundamental questions about the nature of spacecraft in Halo.
But we got zip, it's mental.
humble yacht
Also if spacecraft used gravitronics for maneuvering then that would present a clear weak point
stable schooner
Need a UNSC at War game
humble yacht
Take out the grav pads, make the ship dead in the water
versed helm
Well I'm envisioning less grav pads
And more field-generating units
Probably highly diffused throughout the hull
humble yacht
That would need to be explained more clearly
versed helm
Theory - anti-grav plates like in GoO were the original concept but the tech got more sophisticated and became CH "anti-grav units".
humble yacht
Because we haven’t seen that level of gravitational manipulation with humans
versed helm
Well what about frigates?
versed helm
They hang in atmosphere without any evident downward thrust.
humble yacht
We only ever see rear engines
versed helm
Kinda essential to the UNSC ground strategy.
What about kids playing grav-ball at school? Gravitic car suspension from Battle Born.
humble yacht
The most realistic thing we saw were the extraneous launch rockets that helped the autumn launch from reach
humble yacht
Covenant tech is largely unexplained so it’s easier to suspend disbelief
humble yacht
we know that covenant have space specific banshee models though
So the atmospheric banshees don’t function in space
hollow elbow
because US (assuming were all for UNSC) knows little about the covenant tech
gilded mason
assuming were all for UNSC
🤔
humble yacht
The seraphs (covenants standard space fighter) can function in atmosphere
versed helm
My personal opinion is that grav-manipulation, even providing manoeuvring thrusters do exist and we just don't see them for whatever reason, is obviously extremely common all across humanity.
For one, widespread inertial compensation.
humble yacht
I’d be more inclined to believe that looters if Reach hadn’t shown the autumn requiring detachable rockets to take off from reach
stable schooner
Snap I didn’t think my question would lead to this much detail
hollow elbow
yeahhhh duhhhh
gilded mason
Maybe more of an SoS supporter, since the Covenant (at large) were kinda jerks.
versed helm
Yeah. In space you'd probably encounter far stronger gravitational impulses than Earth gravity.
hollow elbow
brb going to the bathroom
versed helm
Unless in those situations they'd rely on gravitically orientating themselves away from what they're being pulled towards and then full-blast their thrusters.
stable schooner
@gilded mason but the SOS lack those Slick multi Color Ranks
humble yacht
For that we’d need to investigate the specifics of how Infinity escaped requiem falling into a star
versed helm
Well Infinity can float in-atmo, so y'know.
humble yacht
Well so could the Dawn
gilded mason
@stable schooner
Perhaps we just haven't seen 'em in-game. For I want to believe. ™
humble yacht
But never explained how
versed helm
Proposition - the wartime UNSC had the capability to overcome the mass of a frigate in atmosphere but not a light cruiser, fully.
That capability developed postwar.
stable schooner
The Ones in the Halo 5 teaser for H2A Elites with their white and Red were amazing
versed helm
True.
gilded mason
Bah, blue and black is the most ~aesthetic~ harness color.
humble yacht
It’s just handwavy enough to not require full explanation like other human tech
Which naturally is more based in real science
And easier to connect to modern physics
Or rather, more requiring explanation through modern physics because of the fact that it is human tech
versed helm
Although point - the thrusters on the Autumn fall away, and the engines fire, but it still sweeps upwards on its own after they've detached.
It just kinda used the thrusters to get off the ground.
humble yacht
Yeah it does
Again begging the question of how it’s getting that lift
Because it’s not from actual lift
Because the autumn is not aerodynamic
versed helm
My theory would be that it's partially mitigating its mass and orientating itself upwards gravitically so the engines can do the work needed to go starside.
But if it's not gravitic, it's small manouvering thrusters that just aren't visible so 🤷
humble yacht
In the halo 4 Infinity trailer, when requiem starts pulling in Infinity, del rio shouts “reverse thrust!”, suggesting that there is a capacity to change direction of the ship based on engine or some other propulsion
You wouldn’t say reverse thrust if it was gravity tech
versed helm
Very true.
As it happens, I think I've identified potentially a few forward-facing thrusters on a few UNSC ships.
But not side-on ones or top/bottom ones.
As usual, though, the best assumption is that it's probably a combination of all factors.
There's probably thrusters of some kind and a gravitic element and whatever else.
humble yacht
I also feel like if it were gravity tech, it would be more obvious
Examples of gravity tech in halo have always been depicted like an aura
versed helm
In certain capacities, yeah. Covenant ones.
humble yacht
You can see gravitational fields like a distortion on the air
Yet when the Dawn stops above you in halo 3, you see none of that
It’s just sitting there
versed helm
But Covenant ships also float - almost certainly through gravity manipulation, since everything they do is based on gravitic impulse - and they don't give off an evident aura.
So personally, I'm not sold on that counter-argument.
Probably slightly different tech. Grav-lifts tend to have a specific aura - it might just be to indicate to users where the grav-lift's boundaries are, or serve as some kind of safety field.
humble yacht
I feel like every time we’ve seen a covenant ship in atmosphere, it’s been moving
Moving slowly sometimes, but still moving
versed helm
Wouldn't stop it from plummeting if its thrust is rearwards.
humble yacht
Unless it’s size allows it to maintain flight with minimal forward thrust
versed helm
Seems like a stretch.
humble yacht
I mean, that’s all we can do
versed helm
I mean, I think of it this way - we've been seeing ships just hanging there stationary in atmosphere since the Truth and Reconciliation.
Since In Amber Clad if you want to get human-specific.
Even if they're not spilling their guts for whatever reason, the fact that they never addressed it means that there's some internal logic here.
humble yacht
With truth and reconciliation, since halos don’t have normal gravity or atmospheres, it’s easier to ignore
well, at least when you aren’t right on the surface
The Truth and Reconciliation was pretty far above the ring
versed helm
But point - Reach was the game which stuck take-off thrusters on the PoA, but it was also the game which made the UNSC using floating frigates as gun-platforms a thing.
versed helm
A little mission called Tip of the Spear my friend.
It's my favourite part of the game.
versed helm
You knock out the AA towers, and frigates come in and start raining hell down below.
They're pretty still, possibly moving forward slightly, but you've yet to convince me there's any logical reason for that to make a difference.
These are not ships with a lot of light surface area. They're dense.
versed helm
Alright, sorry, I'll rephrase - I don't see that possibility as valid. It makes no sense.
humble yacht
And I personally don’t buy the grav tech possibility as much as some others
It would most easily explain things but there’s also little evidence suggesting the ships have that convenience
versed helm
What I could maybe accept (assuming in-game portrayals are fully canon) is that we're not looking at lift-assist but sheer weight-mitigation.
humble yacht
All we have to go on are floating cars and a sports game
versed helm
Sorta like a Mass Effect field.
And it's just making the ship light enough for lots of very small thrusters to do the work.
humble yacht
And with the cars, there are pads producing the grav effects
Not like a single generator producing a field that can be manipulated
versed helm
Well nah it's not floating cars
It's just gravitic suspension
That could mean anything
But I will draw your attention back to the Pelican's gravitic lift assist
humble yacht
I envision that to mean cars that hover just off the ground due to anti grav effects
versed helm
Not exactly what I envision, but hey.
Feel like the UNSC might have more ghost-alikes if that was the case though.
But in conclusion - shame on Warfleet for this question still being up in the air
And uh
It's probably a robust combination of everything. All different kinds of grav-tech and thruster arrangements and stuff.
Just like how the MA5 probably has pop-up ironsights and projection sights and you can aim through the screen and it's got electronic targeting
hollow elbow
back
versed helm
And that electronic targeting probably works from HUD-based algorithms and weapon-based sensors (which are probably concealed in the flashlight and other places) and even battlenet uplink stuff.
Its the 26th century, y'know, you gotta give em some credit.
Yeah I do gotta bring everything back to MA5s, it's what I do
hollow elbow
hmmm
okay what about the weapons that the UNSC used
why was the battle rifle burst and not automatic?
versed helm
Oh, it can be fired on full auto.
It's just always set to burst in-game.
But you can see it being fired on full auto in Landfall, the trailer for Halo 3.
stoic hamlet
Also single shot in Day at the Bexh
hollow elbow
why were the elites removed from the honor guards and replaced with the brutes?
versed helm
Oh god
Figuring that out would require getting into Truth's head
Which is a really daunting task
hollow elbow
im intrigued
stoic hamlet
Because they failed to keep Regret safe.
Because Truth wanted more “loyal” guards.
Because they smelled better. (/s)
We really don’t know, it could be a number of reasons
gilded mason
Basically, Truth's a jerk.
hollow elbow
the prophets are the reason why the covenant failed in the first place
gilded mason
But yeah, Truth wanted the more loyal Brutes as his troops, not the elites who began to question things
versed helm
Well to be honest, the three high prophets were the reason it stuck around after they discovered the Reclaimer problem.
Which is that the Forerunners intended humanity to follow on from them, and only humans were intended to be able to use Forerunner tech.
versed helm
Truth, Regret and Mercy decided to keep it to themselves, and apparently all handled it in different ways.
gilded mason
Which is that the Forerunners intended humanity to follow on from them
Wasn't that more the Librarian's project, not the Forerunners at large?
versed helm
Regret went into full zealotry, as we can see in Halo Wars and Halo 2
And yeah, sure, but the it makes no difference to the Covenant Ostral
gilded mason
True
versed helm
Mercy became... Either senile, or best buds with Truth, hard to tell.
gilded mason
Though his last line is a bit odd
versed helm
And Truth... I think maybe developed an understanding of what the Halo rings did but maintained the idea that the Forerunners ended up becoming gods and aspired to it himself?
gilded mason
"This time, none of you will be left behind."
stable schooner
Mercy for all
I think he knows the Ark will activate all rings bringing everyone to godhood
versed helm
He knew that the rings would kill him, hence why he fled from Installation 05 and wanted to fire the array from the Ark (where their pulse couldn't get him, by-the-by). Perhaps he felt that wiping the galaxy clean would allow him to restart civilization in his own image or whatever.
Become a god to the people of the future.
Well that's my theory anyway.
gilded mason
Perhaps. I wonder what Staten originally intended.
hollow elbow
“Dear Humanity; we regret being alien bast4rds. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-a$$ fleet!”
versed helm
His actions in Halo 2 only make sense if you presume he's manipulating Tartarus to sacrifice himself to deal with the Flood/Elite problem at High Charity, and he knows the rings will kill him.
Halo 2's dialogue with him and Mercy hints heavily that he's not as pious as he seems.
And then something of a backflip happened in that respect in Halo 3.
gilded mason
Yeah
versed helm
My headcanon? Holding onto the truth of the rings and the reclaimer problem for so long turned him paranoid against the Elites, causing the schism, and after Mercy's death that paranoia turned into full-blown delusion.
Why'd he let Mercy die?
Nobody knows. Maybe he wanted to tie up loose ends.
Mercy might have also been in on what Truth knew about the rings, and they were both hiding what they knew from Regret since he was young and fanatical.
Hence, when Truth saw the Schism go bad and decided to use the Ark to clean the slate, he didn't want anyone who could blackmail him or contest power afterwards.
Throughout Halo 3 with humanity, half the Covenant and the Flood all bearing down on him and nowhere to turn, he gradually slips further and further, taking over the spiritual voice role that the other two prophets used to inhabit and clinging to it irrationally, spending most of his time screaming derangedly at his holo-recorder, always paranoid that the faith of his followers is waning.
By the time he's cornered at the Ark control room, while he knows the truth about the Halo rings and what they do, he's somehow managed to convince himself that firing them will result in godhood. Basically, he's gone fully off the deep end, as we can deduce from his delirious ranting while he's being infected.
stable schooner
Mercies last line to me says he knows about the Ark and its effect, thinks humans are Foreunner and that everyone will ascend to godhood.
versed helm
But his words to Johnson are a pretty stark reminder that he knows more than he seems to.
stable schooner
Cause we should remember humans being Foreunners was the idea back then
versed helm
Absolutely.
I think it's more or less canonical fact that, at minimum, the High Prophets believed humans are Forerunners, even with modern lore.
Evidently they were mistaken.
gilded mason
Doesn't help when Mendicant Bias sure made it sound like they were Forerunners.
versed helm
I mean, you can explain away those incongruities by saying that the Librarian basically made humans into Forerunners, from a Forerunner perspective, by ceding them the mantle and giving them control of the tech.
So from a Forerunner's perspective (who's not the Didact), humanity are effectively who they were, biological differences being inconsequential.
Besides, most Forerunner biology seems to be a product of extensive gradual bio-engineering anyway so I doubt biological distinctions means much to them.
They can turn into basically whatever they want once they're psychological prepared, or whatever.