If it had stone instead of metal
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
It sounds as if your question might also be answerable by finding out the reasons why modern militaries use the materials they do in body armour, Beast.
There's a reason the UNSC doesn't use Tungsten
Despite being very heat resistant
inner basin
Well we don’t have plasma being fired at us. It was just a thought that came up on 2 hours of sleep, like relax
versed helm
You want something that can bend instead of shattering under pressure
They probably use all sorts of things - they just alloy everything with titanium.
Oh, Beast, I'm perfectly relaxed.
Everything is alloy of course
It'd be ridiculous if they didn't
jovial temple
Even the warthogs?
versed helm
Alloys are stronger than the pure metal
violet vine
You did not understand the question.
versed helm
They have alloy frames and some sort of lightweight composite armouring.
violet vine
Spike autocannon is a ship's kinetic weapon capable of destroying a building.
inner basin
As for the ships they are an alloy too with at least Titanium, right?
versed helm
yes
inner basin
Titanium-A to be exact
versed helm
Primarily titanium, evidently.
jovial temple
Is alloy bullet proof
versed helm
It depends on the alloy.
violet vine
It was about the types of starship weapons such as a vampire or spacecraft like CAS.
versed helm
But like a good steel-titanium alloy would be very bulletproof.
inner basin
Wouldn’t say proof, maybe resistant (bullet resistant)
versed helm
titanium-A is lightweight(something that is crucial for building, strong and high tolerant to heat
violet vine
Which are not known in the wide lore.
versed helm
Which is something you need in space
Titanium-A probably refers to an absolutely vast variety of materials.
If the material you're using it too heavy you'll need more fuel to start and stop the ship
it drastically reduces speed and turning
jovial temple
Yeah not many know bullet resistant and bullet proof are two separate terms. But steel-titanium is prob bullet proof
versed helm
It's like calling all Covenant materials "nanolaminate". It sounds specific, but it's really not.
violet vine
(Energy projector • Plasma bombardment mortar • Plasma torpedo • Plasma cannon • Pulse laser turret)
And also antimatter charges.
versed helm
legionbro, I think you may be on your own page about what's happening here
Why don't we move back to that discussion once the current one dies down
inner basin
There’s no telling him. Just let him talk on as he won’t listen
versed helm
Nobody's denying that ship-based weaponry that work on similar principles to spike weaponry may well be a thing.
jovial temple
Is mjolnir completely bullet proof
versed helm
I think they'd be effectively the same as MACs, though.
jovial temple
Without shields
versed helm
I mean nothing's completely bulletproof - you smack something enough with hard, high-velocity projectiles and eventually its structural integrity will start to diminish.
But for the most part MJOLNIR armour is very resilient.
violet vine
The discussion has grown out of a misunderstanding of my question. I think the discussion may continue, but if it is not the answer.
versed helm
jovial temple
It’s the future. I thought maybe since it was made for insurrectionists, they found an entirely bullet proof material that won’t diminish
But makes sense though
versed helm
Are you talking about those things, legionbro?
But @jovial temple if you want a sick example of bulletproof materials - are you familiar with The Mona Lisa?
jovial temple
The painting?
versed helm
Spooky Evolutions story that was adapted into a motion comic?
versed helm
inner basin
It’s a cool story. Should definitely at least watch the motion comic ^
versed helm
Worth a watch.
jovial temple
Will do
versed helm
In that, you can see a regular Marine's chestplate absorb multiple hits from an MA5's ammunition - presumably armour-piercing - at close range.
inner basin
Don’t read this gegnar. Do we know who actually survived at the end. Avoiding the spoiler bits as much as possible
versed helm
MJOLNIR's titanium plating seems to be much denser and higher-grade than what Marines wear.
More akin to the armour of a Scorpion tank, potentially.
So if a Marine's chestplate can withstand that, it's a good bet that MJOLNIR can take a hell of a lot more punishment.
inner basin
I believe Mjolnir is made up of the Titanium-A alloy
inner basin
I didn’t think marine armour was a Titanium-A alloy
versed helm
Well, in Smoke and Shadows, Rion's pressure helmet is made from Titanium nanocomposite.
If a metal is a nanocomposite, it's most likely an alloy.
violet vine
https://www.halopedia.org/35mm_autocannon
This is did not spike autocannon
carmine sleet
You also have to remember that Mjolnir also was constantly being worked on to make it even better, it's very likely that the later versions of Mark IV had much better armour plating compared to the older ones, in part due to the Human-Covenant War forcing them to make armour that's better against the Covenant's weapons
versed helm
@violet vine Lay it out for me, bud - are you coming up with the idea of a spike autocannon on ships, or are you saying it is something that already exists in the Halo universe?
I've actually never heard of a ship-mounted spike autocannon.
carmine sleet
Honestly, Looters, allot of what they have said in the past 24 days has confused me
Like, they claimed that Hunter worms were used to devour a planet
inner basin
And that San Shyumm are stronger than Spartans
Or something ridiculous along those lines
violet vine
"Grave-makers" are rugged, nest-shaped gun platforms that are capable of carrying groups of individuals for surface deployment. They consist of a main body and arms. "Grave-makers" are crudely fused together flying craft that are plated over with heavy armor shielding. Downward-facing engines lift them into the air in sputtering and roaring bursts, which can sometimes be a struggle due to the ships' weight. They are equipped with heavy-grade spike autocannons that provide substantial firepower.[1]
versed helm
Do you mean... Blisterbacks?
obsidian thistle
Grave-makers are a thing
violet vine
versed helm
No, sorry, poor wording - I meant, is that a reference to blisterbacks?
I forget.
It's from, uh, Envoy right?
obsidian thistle
inner basin
They are used by Hekabe’s pack
violet vine
This is a bombardment range weapon, and therefore a ship's weapon.
Apparently these are the consequences of its use.
inner basin
He sourced that right of Halopedia too from the looks of it
violet vine
versed helm
It's more or less expected that a brute ship would have spike-esque weapons.
And yes, they are certainly ship weapons.
versed helm
Well, I'm glad we resolved that. Good work!
violet vine
inner basin
Don’t really know what it has to do with anything unless this was an earlier discussion
versed helm
Is he... still trying to prove that spike cannons are a thing?
violet vine
It is superior in power to the scarab.
inner basin
Is that what the discussion was, Looters?
violet vine
This is definitely a heavy gun.
And also the ship itself using it is described as a heavily armored ship.
versed helm
Well, you'd expect that a weapon mounted on a ship would be capable of wreaking some serious terrestrial havok.
As I was saying, it's probably similar in nature to a UNSC coilgun - or rather, in function.
Just something that throws dense projectiles at hypervelocity. Perhaps the spike autocannon also superheats its ammunition, as do regular spikers.
inner basin
I’d say it’d be more powerful than a singular coilgun, but not on the level of MACs, the next step up from the coilguns
versed helm
Well, yeah. I guess the thing that defines a MAC is that it's a huge, spinally-mounted coilgun in a ship, or a static emplacement on land.
inner basin
I very TL;DR on MACs
violet vine
Prophet of truth stronger spartan 1: https://youtu.be/X9sdwpbL4kc?t=116
versed helm
He was injured xD
inner basin
How does that proof that Truth is stronger than Johnson? Johnson’s been beaten up severely
jovial temple
he’s not stronger than spartan 2’s no sir
versed helm
And also, you try resisting having someone move your hand around from the back of the wrist.
jovial temple
Or spartan 3’s
versed helm
If they've got an angle on you it can be very difficult.
violet vine
"And that San Shyumm are stronger than Spartans
Or something ridiculous along those lines"
inner basin
Well yeah I defend my point
It’s completely ridiculous that you are using an in-game cutscene as your only basis to proof your point.
carmine sleet
That cutscene doesn't prove Truth is stronger than Johnson. If you look, you can clearly see a Brute holding Johnson. Not to mention the fact that Miranda had just died and Johnson was in shock
versed helm
Well not completely ridiculous, but I do think it's kinda a pointless debate.
jovial temple
Brute is stronger than Johnson but not that old bag of a prophet
violet vine
The Prophet of Truth shot a brute's weapon.
inner basin
So?
jovial temple
Marines can do that lol
inner basin
A Brute Spiker isn’t that heavy
versed helm
He held it one hand, though - a former UNSC soldier in Believe had a hard time lifting one.
Likely adrenaline, though.
jovial temple
Yeah marines have to use two hands
violet vine
inner basin
He dropped it using one hand, not holding it to shoot (as we don’t see that part).
versed helm
I am personally of the belief that prophets are probably a little stronger than we'd expect.
And Truth is a madman, too.
He might as well be on bath salts.
It really doesn't matter, though.
jovial temple
They did overpower the Sangheli somehow
carmine sleet
It's more than likely that Truth used both hands to shoot it but due to it's weight, he dropped it with one hand
inner basin
Technology is how gegnar
versed helm
With the Forerunner dreadnought.
The Sangheili couldn't win in space, gengar.
And space battles win wars in Halo.
violet vine
versed helm
Unless Halo arrays and great schisms are involved of course xD
inner basin
It’s how the Covies won when Spartans were deployed ground side, space battles
violet vine
inner basin
But they made a difference on the ground, a huge difference.
versed helm
I will just go ahead and say that the Chief vs Locke fight is possibly the worst demonstration of Spartan capabilities ever.
And Chief punching Regret was just... bizarre.
violet vine
versed helm
The low point of that game, really.
violet vine
inner basin
If it was a little faster, then maybe the Chief vs Locke fight would be plausible
Make that a lot faster
versed helm
legionbro, why don't you take a bit of time to write your exact point into a few sentences instead of sporadically throwing sources at us?
violet vine
The Prophet of Truth is stronger than Master Chief.
inner basin
But not true
violet vine
This was featured in one of the comics.
inner basin
What was?
violet vine
When he attacked him from above in his chair and forced him to retreat.
violet vine
He attacked him from behind the wall and punched mjölnir.
inner basin
I’m gonna need a source
violet vine
Ok.
versed helm
Alright, cool down for a sec lads - legionbro, what you're doing is cherrypicking specific sources instead of trying to gauge the intent of what's happening
Chief is obviously much stronger than Truth.
You can more or less take that for granted. Can you imagine Truth punching through the exterior plating of a tank?
jovial temple
Truth sits In a floating chair. Without the chair he is nothing, without him his chair is nothing
versed helm
And also, if Regret was stronger than Chief, why didn't he just hurl him off his chair?
violet vine
versed helm
If Prophets are so strong, why was Mercy so easily overcome by an infection form?
violet vine
This comics
jovial temple
Lol if he’s truly that strong then why do they need protectors and shouldn’t he be on the front lines
violet vine
i find page
carmine sleet
Not to mention that if Prophets were stronger than Spartans, why would they have any need for the Elites or Brutes outside of filling out their armies. Plus there would be no need for things like Prelates if Prophets were stronger
inner basin
If Prophets were strong then why was Chief able to beat Regret to death basically?
violet vine
The prophets are few. The prophets degraded at the time of the war with the elites.
inner basin
That’s just sounds convenient to try make your point true
versed helm
legionbro, there's still a few questions you haven't answered.
violet vine
At the time of the events of halo, they are still weaker than the elites, but the elites are much stronger than the people.
versed helm
Like why Regret wasn't able to physically beat Chief in Halo 2 if Chief was weaker than his species?
jovial temple
Elites are not stronger than Spartans thought they do give each other a good fight
violet vine
versed helm
Like, it took a little bit, but Chief did end up killing him.
inner basin
Why did Mercy tap out to a single infection form?
jovial temple
^
inner basin
How was he? He’s just weak
versed helm
Well that's a sudden turnaround.
violet vine
He could shove Chief with himself.
versed helm
He was weak and until Chief engaged him in hand-to-hand, protected from ranged fire and fighting alongside hardened Elite bodyguards.
jovial temple
And I’m pretty sure Shan shyuum are still alive on their home world unless they glassed it or something
inner basin
He can take hits, but doesn’t proof he’s stronger
jovial temple
Prob some on high charity
versed helm
I think potentially that his "resistance" to Chief's punching was just a fluke.
A bit of Bungie humour, probably.
violet vine
"He was weak and until Chief engaged him in hand-to-hand, protected from ranged fire and fighting alongside hardened Elite bodyguards.
"
Nope.
https://youtu.be/RWnB_o2_5dY
carmine sleet
It's more than likely just for gameplay that Regret was able to take so many hits from Chief's fist
jovial temple
Yeah
jovial temple
Imagine if you showed up and he insta died
inner basin
I mean that’s true. The first rule of lore is don’t use gameplay as a basis of your argument cough cough
jovial temple
^
versed helm
@violet vine So are you telling me that Regret wasn't being protected by bodyguards and didn't have an energy shield and a flying chair with huge guns?
That's why Chief wasn't able to kill him quicker.
And as soon as Chief got on the throne, it was over.
If what your saying is true, Regret should have thrown Chief off his chair. Simple as that.
violet vine
"I mean that’s true. The first rule of lore is don’t use gameplay as a basis of your argument cough cough"
Nope. This is animation.
inner basin
🤦♂️
versed helm
You're extremely deluded.
inner basin
I give up, honestly
jovial temple
This is quite funny
violet vine
inner basin
For the love of all that’s holy please stop
carmine sleet
Chief punching Regret is still gameplay
inner basin
If we could move on that’d be great
But something tells me that won’t happen from this guy’s “historical tendencies” is what we’ll call it
jovial temple
The San shyuum are great manipulators
versed helm
Since I've got a captive audience - did you guys know that if 343 retconned an MA5's ammunition into having a straightcased cartridge with a width that doesn't exceed 8mm (unlike 7.62 NATO's 12mm) then the magazines we see used with the weapon could actually be plausible?
In fact, providing some kinda crazy electronic feeding system which facilitates a neat triple-stack, you could even make the Halo CE mag kinda almost plausible.
As in, it'd still fit mostly in the grip.
Aaaaaand everyone's gone 😦
remote spruce
I'm ded
violet vine
inner basin
I’m not much of a “gun guy” in terms of knowing the dimensions etc.
jovial temple
Posting so many links like people are gonna click on those ._.
remote spruce
Also I have to go, probably for the best considering the topic of whatever argument occurred here
versed helm
Basically, I'm talking about the dimensions of the part of the round that gets ejected. The brass.
If the cartridge the MA5 fires is 7.62x51 NATO, that means the width of the casing - not the bullet, but the casing - is 12mm.
The bullet would be waaaayyy to large to fit 32 or 36 in the magazines we see.
inner basin
Okay, I’m following
versed helm
But if you pulled the sci-fi card and said "oh, they can get away with a smaller case that's basically only as wide as the bullet because they have stronger propellant", then you could make it work.
You'd just have to ignore some of casings you see ejected in-game. Which shouldn't be too hard.
inner basin
Right.
jovial temple
Then how did the og mag fit 60 bullets
versed helm
In Halo 4 the AR ejects BR casings which are totally different xD
jovial temple
If the casing is too big
inner basin
Visual glitch or re-used resources is probably why the AR in H4 ejected BR casings
versed helm
But if it was an ammunition with a straight casing, you could divide the bullets up into three stacks of 20, side-by-side.
Slightly thicker magazine, not too bad.
And you'd need a mechanism to have it actually feed properly since that's the trick with thicker mags. But I'm sure they could figure that out.
jovial temple
Sci-fi card
versed helm
Yeah!
Say that they've developed a propellant that's just more powerful than what we use today.
Some kinda mixture that produces a denser cloud of gas that expands even faster than that of modern propellant.
Cuz that's what shoots the bullet - the cloud of gas from the combustion of the propellant expanding and pushing the bullet down the barrel with a wave of dense pressure.
Some of that gas is siphoned off, and it pushes the bolt back to go grab a new bullet.
That's what gas-operated guns do - use the gas to cycle the bolt.
inner basin
Gun mechanisms is where this discussion is headed, yikes. For me I just care about the look of the gun and it’s origins.
jovial temple
Is the ar insanely Accurate? I mean I love the classic ar models as much as the next halo fan but I never understood why it doesn’t have iron sights
versed helm
Well it doesn't really need iron sights.
inner basin
HUD
versed helm
It's got electronic targeting - yeah.
jovial temple
Even the marines have hud?
violet vine
"So are you telling me that Regret wasn't being protected by bodyguards and didn't have an energy shield and a flying chair with huge guns?"
His shield was filed.
versed helm
Most of the time - clearly the AR was designed in conjunction with the Halo CE Marines who had those eyepieces.
Which could probably be used for targeting.
inner basin
That’s why it doesn’t need em. Every UNSC service member has a neural implant which projects the hud into their vision
versed helm
But the UNSC sticks HUDs in basically all its eyewear and visors so yeah, Marines have HUDs.
Unless they're not wearing anything on their eyes.
inner basin
Bring back CE Marines
jovial temple
^
inner basin
Their hud was the coolest
versed helm
In which case that ammo counter can probably turn into a little camera optic.
I imagine the input for such a system - and the HUD-linked targeting in general - is hidden in the flashlight.
Or somehow goes through the cowling, I dunno.
The MA37 actually has a little optic module on cowling.
Wonder where that went in successive models.
inner basin
Do we really want to know where it went?
jovial temple
In that case why do they need a scope for anything if they got a hud? I’m sure it can zoom
versed helm
Different scopes can do different things, really.
inner basin
HUDs don’t zoom unless it’s a Mjolnir hud iirc.
versed helm
A dedicated scope can probably easily zoom a lot further than a magnified HUD.
Plus, some scopes do really neat things.
Sniper rifle oracle-N scopes have neutron detection. Whatever the heck that is.
versed helm
And if you've got a separate smart-linked scope on your weapon, you can stick it around a corner and shoot accurately without exposing yourself.
It'd look funny but you could do it.
Plus, can you ever really have too many tacticool optics?
jovial temple
Haha I guess not
inner basin
The small bits of UNSC technology is sometimes the most impressive stuff
versed helm
But I imagine electronic targeting isn't such a straightforward system - it's probably a sorta combined instantaneously-updating data-link between a soldier and his weapon that draws on all available information (weapon mounted sensors and camera optics, impact-predictive algorithms based on the user's visual field, battlenet monitoring and terrain databases, etc) to collate the most accurate possible impact point.
And then you can pair that point with your own HUD's zooming capabilities if present for accurate long-range shooting.
inner basin
I know that Mjolnir armour is linked to the Spartan’s neural lace, so all those things listed above aren’t out of the question
versed helm
And anyway, that impact point is of course displayed in the simple, quickly-readable, user-friendly form of a nice little reticle.
With additional information quickly accessible, if needed.
inner basin
The reticle is just as iconic as the energy shield recharge
Glad it’s returning just as a side note
versed helm
Heck yeah dude
Good to see 343's following the UNSC's equipment philosophy.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But y'know. About sound effects and visual design instead xD
inner basin
We also really get a feel for how heavy the suit is. Yes we’ve heard how heavy it is (well at least other suits) but we see it in the trailer. Of course judging by in-game isn’t the best source but I feel this is an out liar to that when we see the whole Pelican literally shake. Everything about that trailer felt great
versed helm
Yeah. Reminds me a little of Chief's chestplate falling like an anvil in the Halo 4 epilogue.
Such a cool cutscene tbh.
inner basin
Shame that right after he’s back in the fight again in that comic we don’t speak of for obvious reasons
versed helm
I don't mind it so much
inner basin
Kinda ruins what Halo 4 had set up too let alone the other things that it did
versed helm
But I mainly liked Escalation for the Infinity's adventures.
I mean, I'll say this - there certainly wasn't any need for what Escalation did with the Didact, and it heavily overcomplicated the matter of ever using him again.
inner basin
Yeah Infinity’s adventures were cool. Gives us a better feel for the ship’s day-to-day life after playing through Spartan Ops it feels quite great
The Didact should of been the second trilogy’s main villain. I say second trilogy assuming that Infinite is the third and final, if not then I’ll say second half of the Saga
versed helm
But you could potentially write around it, though - if you speak in general terms, you could explain the Didact's return in-game in a way that makes the casual fan think that the Halo 4 ending is being discussed, but is actually about the Composer's Forge shenanigans.
And yeah, probably.
Though that said, I'm not entirely down on the Created either - I like a little bit of AI shenanigans, a little consciousness-philosophy. It's always fun to ponder.
inner basin
That comic still upsets me greatly
versed helm
Just hope they're well represented.
inner basin
RIP Black Team
versed helm
RIP
violet vine
I apologize, but can anyone recall any other examples of the weapons of the Covenant starships?
inner basin
Can we retcon that? It was some Spec Ops Spartan-IVs instead lol
versed helm
Well, legionbro, the only things I can think of are the energy ones. Y'know, plasma torps, plasma lances, excavation beams, pulse lasers and smaller plasma cannons.
There have been some heavy needle munitions brought up in the past, though. Not on capital ships, but it's a potential avenue.
inner basin
As for the Didact reappearing in-game, it shouldn’t happen. After the Cortana and Created Arc became a thing, it’s too late for him to make a second appearance.
versed helm
The Covenant like using needle-cannons for anti-aircraft - mounted on vampires and in turret format and such.
inner basin
The Covies really like their AA guns. It’s because the UNSC generally use Longswords as guidance (for MACs obviously)
versed helm
And personally I'm quite interested in the idea of more weaponry with utilizes grav-control tech.
Like a mass driver, maybe, but with gravity fields.
inner basin
How would that work?
versed helm
Like what I was talking about earlier with how carbines and fuel rod guns and needlers and spikers might work.
Well, maybe the same way a coilgun does?
violet vine
"Like a mass driver, maybe, but with gravity fields."
Me two.
versed helm
You generate a series of successive gravitational fields very quickly and very precisely to accelerate a projectile at very high speeds.
inner basin
Grav-control tech. Okay give me more context on this
violet vine
But the biggest thing I found was a gun capable of destroying a building.
versed helm
Well y'know. Grav-control tech in Halo's gotta be advanced. Not only do their ships have total inertial compensation (believe it or not, if a spaceship was to go as fast as they do in most sci-fi it'd kill everyone aboard), even the humans have stuff like gravitational lift-assist in pelicans, and even usages as benile as integrating grav-tech into sports like grav-ball, or working it into car suspension system.
versed helm
The UNSC's whole strategy for offensive ground operations is to have frigates just hanging there above the ground raining death with the coilguns. Gotta be some serious antigrav or weight-mitigation stuff going on there.
inner basin
Oh no, I know that stuff. I’m talking about the grav-tech for weaponry
versed helm
Well, if you can control the direction and impulse of gravity, you could presumably generate powerful, localized, directional fields.
violet vine
Where do I write 343 to add it? Weapons can be done with the capabilities of the Covenant.
versed helm
Which could be used to violently accelerate a projectile.
inner basin
Controlling gravity does sound a bit impossible and op too
violet vine
Or a bypass weapon in the slip space. This is possible. Even, seraphim can get into the space of sliding.
😄
versed helm
I mean, in real life we don't even know what gravity is, really.
We just know its rules.
violet vine
The Covenant has too few weapons on the background of the quotation from the “endless arsenal” from Keys.
versed helm
We don't know if we can control it - but in Halo it's super obvious that they know exactly what gravity is or at least, how they can manipulate it.
inner basin
We just know it is a force based around spherical objects (centripetal force). What if we had a Minecraft world lol
versed helm
Very precisely.
But just a side-note on the "bottomless arsenal" comment from Keyes, legionbro. That comes from The Flood, does it not?
violet vine
A projectile shot of a specific matter with its subsequent effect on its atomic bonds allows the armor to be broken and force directed to certain particles in order to break the damaged parts of the hull.
Yes.
inner basin
Let’s just say that the UNSC can control gravity due to space magic and call it a day, that’s fine with me, just give us expo later
Still waiting on some Spartan-III expo btw Halo...
violet vine
The gun fires a projectile, which then explodes with a controlled explosion.
The needle-based gun.
Only fixes the maximum damage at the atomic level creating a nuclear reaction (?) Or destroying the fragile points of the object.
versed helm
Oh, no, grav-guns might not be the best idea for the UNSC
inner basin
I thought needle-based weapons required multiple impacts before they created an explosion
obsidian thistle
Oh
versed helm
But for the Covenant I think they're pretty grounded since they have all those impulse engines and grav lifts and stuff.
obsidian thistle
Halo Rings Gravity is weird
violet vine
For example, arm it with small defensive monitors.
obsidian thistle
The way we think of it by science isnt how it works.
inner basin
Halo Rings? I only know Hula Hoops
obsidian thistle
Its thought that the rings use "Buffer fields". A sorta gravity manipulation the Forerunners used.
violet vine
Detonation occurs due to the reverse impact. The crystal is programmed to a certain frequency. If there is no impact, the crystal remains in the ship until it is disturbed.
inner basin
But isn’t the gravity of the ring artificial so in a way it’s fine that it’s not like the natural gravity we know the rules of
obsidian thistle
No source linking the two together. But its better than having an earth-like gravity caused by spinning. Cause that would be... well insane
violet vine
That is, the weapon does not explode in a vacuum and is not destroyed by its own frequency.
versed helm
I mean, gravitic manipulation is obviously uber-commonplace in Halo.
inner basin
I’d at least expect so for the Forerunners
violet vine
Bomb space slip. Rather, it simply opens up access to the core of the planet aboard the ship. Works like a seraph.
Opening access to radiation or the core of the planet.
You can make such a bomb out of antimatter. Teleportation rocket.
Well, or just a bomb opening the passage for:
Atmospheres.
Radiation.
Etc.
Creations of a ball from superdense substance. Teleporting him aboard UNSC.
Particles existing simultaneously in the reality and space of sliding ...
The bomb detonates in the sliding space and snatches all the particles out.
versed helm
I mean, truly, it's not just a Forerunner thing.
Your average human ship can A) reach decent speeds without pulping everyone aboard thanks to inertia, B) maintain a stable, Earth-like internal gravitational environment without any need for a centrifuge-like system, and C) float in planetary gravity without any obvious downwards thrust.
Now that I mention it, heck, most human ships don't even seem to have any kind of obvious manoeuvring thrusters. Once again, maybe they use thrusters to gain travelling speed but actually orientate themselves and manoeuvre with precision via gravitational impulse.
But a final time, the fact that they've got gravitic lift assist in pelicans, gravitic suspension for high-end civilian cars, and their kids are playing a ball game that involves some kind of grav-tech in schoolyards indicates that the secrets of gravitational manipulation are pretty trivial to them.
It'd be a big discovery, really - easily up there with slipspace travel. I'm surprised more isn't made of it.
My whole point is, it would not surprise me in the slightest to find that Covenant projectile weapons operate using precise, highly violent gravitational fields to fire their projectiles. It seems very likely and plausible given the rules of the universe, and I'm surprised we haven't gotten more grav-tech in weapons already.
Though personally, I'm hoping that we actually get a few more rules regarding gravitic manipulation in the Halo universe. What we have from the EU is an absolute mess of seemingly disparate bits of tech, at least on the human end - anti-grav units from Contact Harvest, anti-grav plates from Ghosts of Onyx, inertial compensators and gravitic lift assist from Warfleet, probably more than a few other things I can't think of. I kinda want to know what is specifically used for what, and what the limitations and capabilities of the tech actually are. Obviously specifying how they function would involve taking some kind of stance on modern-day scientific conundrums to which we don't have the foggiest clue, so that's not what I'm asking.
McGuffins are fine, but their capabilities have to be clearly defined, y'know?
If I had to guess, if we take a regular UNSC frigate... Well, starting with the obvious, the inertial compensator is clearly what counters the effects of inertia. It probably generates some kind of field which isolates the ship somehow from the forces acting upon it - simple enough. Disabling inertial compensation might be a decent objective for a boarding party trying to hamstring an enemy ship.
It seems evident that the pelican's gravitic lift-assist is related to how things like UNSC frigates float handily in-atmosphere. Potentially it functions by mitigating mass, sorta like Mass Effect, so the ship's manoeuvring thrusters or whatever can hold it in place on low power. Or alternately by creating a field which simulates a gravitational pull upwards and away from the planet, cancelling out the impetus to fall. A theory I personally like to favour is that most ships, once again, don't actually have manoeuvring thrusters and impart gravitational pull on themselves for fine manoeuvring - though clearly, this tech has limits, as we can see when the Pillar of Autumn takes off from the Aszod Shipyards.
And finally, I haven't checked it for myself, but CH apparently alludes to "anti-gravity units" being the thing responsible for gravity on human ships. Once again, maybe they generate some kind of field - or maybe they provide power to a system of things akin to the GoO anti-gravity plates which, on a level-by-level basis, either push or pull inhabitants down to the floor. If the ship really is isolated from outside gravitational effects, this would probably be fairly trivial.
Sorry for the, uh, absolutely ridiculous wall of text. I got carried away.
stable schooner
Why is the Earth Defense Fleet so small?
real grove
are there any longform lore video series that are 30-60+ minutes? I've check out xperia and halo canon but most are around 6-15 minutes
obsidian thistle
There is that I00 dude. But I can debate why his videos do go into theory and assumptions and so on.
stable schooner
I mean why did the UNSC waste time defending trash Planets once Earth was compromised.
obsidian thistle
They stopped sending Spartan-IIs to the outter colonies in 2535.
limpid kernel
is it possible to be allergic to covenant species
humble yacht
I'm sure it is.
stoic hamlet
They also flat out abandoned worlds (and everyone on them) if they lost orbital support post 2535.
storm oasis
Why do the scarabs on reach lack any sort of significant weaponry like the ones on the scarab in Halo 3?
carmine sleet
What do you mean? They have their AA gun on top and their scarab beams like the ones seen in Halo 3
fair hazel
They don’t?
humble yacht
The Scarabs on Reach are the same models that appear in Halo 3, and therefore have the same armaments
storm oasis
Really? Huh
They never utilized them in the campaign which is probably why I ignored them
humble yacht
That's because the scenes in which they appear are heavily scripted
stoic hamlet
Arguably the most scripted in the game perhaps.
last anchor
I've run close to one hoping to board it and gone bouncing off before. Its scripted like nothing you would believe
The first thing I thought when I saw them landing in that section at the end was "IM GOING TO STEAL IT"
I couldnt
storm oasis
Sad
warm wigeon
Scarab theft has never been a thing in FPS halo titles
limpid kernel
@storm oasis there is a cutscene where a scarab is about to use its main beam on noble 6 and emile, but thats when carter crashes his pelican in it to save them
also twitchy i dont think he meant driving the scarab
or maybe he did, not sure
storm oasis
So it was
hot dune
nerds
inner basin
There has been Scarab thievery... in Halo Wars 2 @stoic hamlet
stoic hamlet
I was responding to Twitchy
inner basin
Ahh okay, I missed that part
stoic hamlet
No worries
hot dune
shoes are the greatest tool for those flying bug things
inner basin
Drones?
storm oasis
Btw what ever happened to drones and engineers after the schism?
I know that brutes fragmented and for the most part faded back into obscurity after the schism, but what of the other obscure alien races we don’t see in the remnants?
gilded mason
what ever happened to drones
https://www.halopedia.org/Yanme'e#Post-war
engineers
Acording to one source, many up and vanished. Which really didn't make much sense. At the moment, they're with several different factions, for example the UNSC, Swords of Sanghelios, and Banished.
Though really rotten luck for any winding up with that last group mentioned.
gilded mason
lol
storm oasis
“Everybody gets protection...except for those guys”
gilded mason
Gotta sting when even the Yonhet get named.
storm oasis
Also I HATE how they retconned Skirmishers. Didn’t they basically say that “so many were deployed on Reach, they basically went extinct”
gilded mason
So are you saying you preferred them going extinct, or...?
fair hazel
the skirmisher did not go extinct... at all...
trail willow
No they were down to incredibly low numbers after reach though
versed helm
Where does that info come from?
obsidian thistle
Actually that info came from a misunderstanding in a old interview
One fans stopped sourcing and spreading without context.
Happens a lot. And is one reason I am so strict with sources on Halopedia.
gilded mason
Why's it infamous?
versed helm
Part of the reason I'd prefer to ignore it is because it's the one source that truly specifies the ammunition as NATO.
And if it's NATO ammunition, the rounds could never fit in the magazine.
gilded mason
Ah
versed helm
They'd be wayyyy too large.
Also it calls an MA37 and MA5C Mark IV which CIA's always trying to wrap his head around
gilded mason
lol
obsidian thistle
Lore be weird yo.
versed helm
Ain't that the truth.
storm flume
it how it be
obsidian thistle
Be how it may
versed helm
I dunno, maybe for some demented reason if the label is canon then NATO just somehow refers to the 7.62x51 projectile itself
But that designation is typically attributed to a whole cartridge
Cuz the shape of a cartridge as a whole is kinda important to weapon function
And needs to be standardized - but like, NATO cartridges have a shoulder width of 1.2cm. I'd say MA5 magazines at most are about 15cm tall.
Do the math, y'know?
obsidian thistle
Remember reality doesnt equal lore.
versed helm
Need to cut that shoulder width down to I'd say just under 8mm.
obsidian thistle
There is like differences between our reality and Halos.
gilded mason
Does that mean there might not be an MCU in Halo's history?!
versed helm
That may be true, but something so basic is not something I can stomach.
Like, it's a simple proposition of volume.
obsidian thistle
Yea there may not be a MCU in the Halo Universe.
versed helm
Sure, space physics and ballistics and whatever may be a little different.
But the idea that you can take something that can't fit in a box in our reality and just have it magically fit in that box in Halo's reality is... nah. Not 'avin not. That for a second.
And you can tell 343's onto it too because in Halo 4 and H2A multiplayer, they redesigned the cartridge into something more in-line with what would fit!
The only problem is, they also forgot that an MA5's magazine is also well over-length for 7.62 ammunition
storm oasis
What’s all this about?
versed helm
So they stretched the cartridge out and made it look absurdly huge.
inner basin
How the bullet cartridges don’t fit in the magazine, according to an image.
storm oasis
Bruh
versed helm
How the bullet cartridges don't fit in the magazine xD
If they're the modern version of those bullets.
Which I hope they aren't.
obsidian thistle
Looters dislikes something that I want something to be canon. XD Thats the tldr.
inner basin
Okay I don’t know my guns, don’t judge
versed helm
But one dubious image says they might be.
storm oasis
You know what would make an awesome spin-off game? Discussing this here because it involves the lore
versed helm
Go for it
storm oasis
Playing as a Kig-Yar space pirate
gilded mason
That'd be neato.
inner basin
Headhunter game or ODST game are mine or playing as a Spartan-III Cat-2 team
versed helm
Honestly whipping out an energy cutlass would be neat
storm flume
There's a lot of potential for spin-offs in the Halo universe
gilded mason
Indeed.
storm flume
Too much to ever be realized
gilded mason
A lot of untapped potential.
inner basin
We could be here all day going back and forth about ideas
versed helm
All the, uh, indiscriminate defecation and eating of other intelligent species tho
That might get weird
storm oasis
True
inner basin
They don’t have to put it in the game though
gilded mason
Maybe it could be a pirate crew that likes cleanliness.
versed helm
Remember that time in Palace Hotel where Chief killed a jackal by stabbing it in the brain
With his finger
gilded mason
A bit rude.
gilded mason
"Mind if I poke your brain for a moment?"
inner basin
What’s more legendary is John’s Covenant ship kill count
storm oasis
Oof is that a slight at Emile @versed helm
versed helm
The Keyes manoeuvre is where you form a spade-like shape with your MJOLNIR-reinforced fingers and stab someone in the face
storm oasis
What’s more legendary is how he never seems to be able to land a ship, he must always do an awesome crash
versed helm
It's what Chief did to Keyes xD
inner basin
Well he flew that Pelican in Blue Team pretty well
gilded mason
Little do you know, it crashed afterwards offscreen.
versed helm
Naturally
storm oasis
Real talk why does the UNSC lack a parallel to Banshees? Is it the Hornet?
storm flume
They didn't take the same pelican after did they?
gilded mason
They didn't take the same pelican after did they?
They took an ONI ship
inner basin
No it was a Prowler
storm flume
I don't remember the details of H5
versed helm
This new introduction of Brohammer is a good way to begin turning the bad rep around though
Have him fly in on a Pelican
Full combat load
Rockets
Missiles
Chin cannon
storm flume
So yeah it certainly never landed aanywhere lol
versed helm
Wing machine guns like in SPV3
Save the day
Show how beastly these ships really are
inner basin
Wish we would see Halo Wars air vehicles in a Halo FPS, also a Banshee parallel would be either a Sabre or Broadsword
storm oasis
Falcons suck Pelicans are the only way to fly
versed helm
You do know pelicans can come equipped with a 70mm autocannon right
storm flume
This is probably why Chief isn't allowed to fly Pelicans in-game. He can't land them.
storm oasis
Sabres are a bit chunkier than Banshees though
versed helm
70mm
Y'know Shermans?
The main battle tank of the US in WW2?
Their primary gun was 76mm
And Pelicans can be hooked up with a gun that fires slugs only 6mm smaller
On automatic
That's true advancement
Look how far we've come as a species
inner basin
Well it’s the only parallel I can think of @storm oasis
versed helm
Probably because the Covenant got jealous of how much swag UNSC vehicles have
inner basin
Well not at all true, there are definitely some that don’t have parallels
versed helm
They saw the Warthog and were like "this is literally the manliest combat vehicle we've ever seen."
storm oasis
The ones most commonly encountered in combat at the very least
inner basin
And instead make a vehicle that has gravity repulsers for one person only
storm oasis
Um hey Warthog is not the manliest
versed helm
"High speed, flips on a dime, huge gun with zero protection for the gunner..."
storm oasis
Real men drive Revenants
versed helm
I'm just saying
gilded mason
Real men drive Revenants
👌
versed helm
The Sangheili love suicidal vehicles
inner basin
Nah real men drive Mongooses
versed helm
They probably are jealous they didn't invent the warthog
inner basin
Come on get with it guys yeesh
versed helm
Even though the warthog's not suicidal it's tactical
storm oasis
We’re probably just jealous that we didn’t invent the needler
gilded mason
Sure, Looters. 😉
storm oasis
If you made a much larger version of the needler that fired more needles en masse, that’d be terrifying
Like a giant drivable needler
versed helm
But y'know - the Covenant wish their dropships could kick as much butt as Pelicans
Remember the ending of Siera 117?
Oh no, we're getting ganked by load of Phantoms
Or should I say
Sissy-mobiles
gilded mason
Bah, revisionist history from war vets.
versed helm
Time to whip out the rocket pods baby
inner basin
You know what’s better than Pelicans, the many AV- vehicles the UNSC has
storm oasis
Guys just put wings on a warthog trust me
inner basin
Okay gimme a minute
storm flume
Wasn't there actually a picture of that on the reddit once
versed helm
Oh, wait, forgot something about the Pelican.
Door guns
Let me repeat that for you
Door.
Guns.
"Anyone who runs is a hinge-head!"
"Anyone who stands is a well-disciplined hinge-head!"
Actually lemme rephrase that
inner basin
D20 Herons, carries plenty of stuff, Looters
versed helm
"Anyone who runs is Covenant!"
"Anyone who stands is... Probably not a grunt!"
C'mon surely you guys have seen Full Metal Jacket
Door guns man
They're great
Yikes, tough crowd
inner basin
Well the AC-220 Vulture has gunners. They’re not door gunners but they’re similar
You should really read up on some of the Halo Wars vehicles as they are rather interesting. Not just the air vehicles but also the ones on the ground.
versed helm
Nah, I can appreciate the Vulture - they're like AC-130s I guess.
But spaceborne.
And with even more guns, presumably - I dunno a lot about AC-130s.
But I do know they don't typically carry pheonix missiles or... lots of smaller missiles.
Cobras are sick.
The first real artillery the UNSC got, even if, y'know. They'd more or less only be able to fire horizontally or at extreme range.
So uh.
More field guns then
inner basin
I like AV-22 Sparrowhawks. They are my favourite of the lot
inner basin
As for the ground vehicles I probably got to give it to Grizzlies, something I want to see in an FPS title
versed helm
An SkyHawks would've been deep lore.
They're in SPV3
And also terrible
Impossible to aim
Maybe they fixed it in 3.2 dunno
inner basin
Oh Sparrowhawks. Yeah they’re my favourite air vehicle due to the aesthetic
vague scroll
That said, Skyhawks are an aircraft in the UNSC arsenal. I just dislike their design
inner basin
They don’t look that bad...
vague scroll
I prefer Sparrowhawks
versed helm
Distant, that's what I meant
inner basin
Well how can you not? It looks sick
versed helm
I said SkyHawks would've been deeper lore than Sparrowhawks
Would've been cool to see em in a game
inner basin
If we had the Halo Wars game’s vehicles in an FPS title, that would be mind blowing 🤯
inner basin
It would be a deep sandbox that’s for sure
versed helm
I feel like a cobra would be a pretty mechanics-driven vehicle
A bit like a Scorpion, but faster and easier to damage
With a rapid-firing high-damage gun with little splash damage. Sort of like, maybe trying to fire a sniper rifle unscoped but with two reticles, switching between them each time you fire
And then you setup and become immobile but, obviously, your gun becomes the hammer of God
So y'know
Good trade-off
Also tbh Scorpions need a zoom function for their main cannons
And the return of the co-ax in addition to the hull gun
Just to bring their cool factor up
inner basin
I loved when all of the Scorpions guns were controlled by the driver only. That was what made them feel awesome
versed helm
Well I mean, my current understanding of how a Scorpion functions is this - primarily, it's actually an automated vehicle. It's architecture isn't that different to what you'd find in a fully automated combat drone - the only difference is, at all times there is at least one operator present. This operator has two primary functions - he provides tactical oversight to aid the vehicle's automated execution, and presumably he has the ability to take direct control of subsystems as-needed.
So when you're driving a Scorpion, you're not actually controlling your own character as much as your playing as the tank itself. Or rather, it's dumb-AI driven systems, responding to the intent of the driver.
But while a Scorpion can operate in this manner with only one operator, I think traditionally they're deployed with an operator and a co-operator, for the same reasons as why a plane has a pilot and co-pilot. The co-operator is the dude on the hull MG gun - personally, I think it's most believable the dude on the hull MG probably actually would spend most of their time in a compartment underneath it, buttoned up and manually overseeing systems while the driver provides tactical oversight and handles communications. The hull MG is probably just a tool for emergencies.
The reason why I think that is because even B models of the M808, without the hull MG, still pretty clearly have a secondary hatch for another crew member. The Classic Halo CE and 2 scorpions are all-but notorious for this, but in most variations you can see something fairly obvious if you look and potential hatch-like apparatuses even where it's not super obvious.
inner basin
Okay then why not have a hull MG and integrated MGs for the driver to use as well as the main canon?
versed helm
The only M808C that doesn't have that on the model is the Halo 3 one.
All the rest have a modelled co-ax.
You just can't use it.
Reach and 4, specifically.
strong sage
Guys is the M808S scorpion only available for spirit of fire or it was used on other branches as well?
remote spruce
Seems to be a custom version Serina made
inner basin
@strong sage It’s only the SoF that used them (as far as we know). They are modified Scorpions that Serina herself modded in 2537. Isabel did however see possibilities for specialised versions of them as well.
strong sage
Ahhhh i seeeee
And the one on the discovery hope trailer that an MA37? Or probably a newer version of AR
versed helm
Well, there's a few theories regarding that.
Some people believe it's an MA5E, or even an MA6 - potentially it's an MA5A, the weapon which bridges the gap between the MA37/MA5 and MA5B (It could be similar to the M16, which started out as a basic M16 and then the second version became M16A1, which you'd think is the first version).
It could be a case where the MA37 and original MA5, which are ostensibly the same weapon just in different branches of service, actually have minute functional differences which matter logistically. Hence, why they have separate designations in the first place. What we're looking at could just be the Navy version of the MA37.
However, that theory has also been used to explain the small differences between the assault rifle seen in-game in Halo Wars 2 and the classic MA37. Though everything in Halo Wars 2 could easily just be specialist custom gear whipped up by Serina or Isabel, so nothing's really certain that department.
It might also be a similar deal as the situation with the Halo 4 MA5D and Halo 5 MA5D - just varying production models from different facilities or points in time. Except what we're looking at in this instance would be a newer production model MA37.
It's probably one of those things.
tropic sandal
I love just how varied such simple things are in this universe. All this speculation and theorizing with actual in-universe sources and backing. And then the game comes out and it could be entirely different to what anyone suspected.
last anchor
The wonders of new data, how we love it so
inner basin
It’s particularly welcomed in this channel unless it doesn’t canonically make sense
jovial temple
I’m super late to this topic but the vulture is by far my fav aircraft the unsc has
It’s design looks sick
And although the covenant didn’t invent the warthog they did invent the type-46
Which is essentially the same thing
It just floats
It’s like a ghost but beefed up
Unsc called it the spectre
tropic sandal
Yeah had to look that up 😛
Turns out there are multiple weapons/vehicles designated type-46.
Oh, only 2. Spectre and Halo 2 turret.
Oh that's the turret on the Spectre
jovial temple
It’s mounted turret and driver requiring two operators mirrors the warthog
The revenant is similar in size to it but that vehicle is like a smaller wraith
tropic sandal
I miss the Spectre.
jovial temple
Me too
I wish we could drive a scarab lol
Like in halo infinite multiplayer
That might be too op
tropic sandal
That'd be nutty
versed helm
I think it'd be a good campaign segment.
Like Infinite's version of the Pelican bit from Halo 4, y'know?
deft prawn
Wym?
obsidian thistle
Covies dont call the Type-31 Seraph the Type-31. Its the Morsam-pattern Seraph.
tropic sandal
👌 still getting used to that distinction
trail flame
Isn't the Type-xx classification a way to categorize Covenant equipment based on what year it was discovered?
tropic sandal
Woah really? That would make mad sense and would make tracking tech changes so much easier
trail flame
I remember reading somewhere that's how it worked
Like, a Type-33 Guided Munitions Launcher (the Needler) would have been discovered or first seen in 2533
Or, at least I think that's how it works
tropic sandal
That would make a lot of sense
trail flame
Also the needler is confusing af
Supposedly it has no moving parts inside but how that #%&# work??
tropic sandal
Magnets lol
trail flame
There doesn't even appear to be a space large enough for the needles to come out of the front
Or for them to travel between the top housing and the "barrel"
Unless they can deform significantly, and they stiffen when fired?
tropic sandal
I assume that's the case. Either that or a tiny self-contained matter deforming field
trail flame
Dang
tropic sandal
Thhat's based on nothing but imagination. I really have no idea
trail flame
You know I'd love to take apart a covenant weapon
Though I'm guessing they don't exactly use Philips screws
tropic sandal
lol dat Nintendo tri-wing toolset
trail flame
I bet they don't even have fasteners
Just get a Huragok to put its magical tentacles through the casing
And it's fixed
It's really cool aswell how you can see the way their stuff is based on Forerunner tech
tropic sandal
What would a Covenant weapons production line even look like? Just a row of Huragok in a chain-gang doing the hot potato
tropic sandal
I'm assuming grav fields.
trail flame
They probably just have a bunch of Lekgolo literally doing the worm to move the parts along
tropic sandal
That is my own personal canon now
trail flame
kek
I was looking at a photo of a Kai Pattern Seraph yesterday (The one in Halo 2) and I also noted how cool it is to see the Forerunner tech under the more alien shells for their vehicles and weapons
They could probably disguise it better, but my guess is that they leave it exposed purposely as a sort of "tribute" to the Forerunners, considering they consider them to be their daddies basically
tropic sandal
I seem to remember that tampering with forerunner tech was considered borderline heresy. I love how the Prophets justified using it themselves by doing some crazy mental gymnastics and calling it all ok in the name of the greater good
tropic sandal
Well since we know that the whole Covenants' religious basis was a load of rubbish all along, just pushed by the 3 Prophets looking to use it as a form of control, they spun it to that they had essentially interpreted "the will of the Forerunners" that they would be the custodians and inheritors of the ancient tech, to use as they needed in their holy crusade. Humanity using Forerunner tech was seen as blasphemous and punishable by extermination. Covenant usage was seen as acceptable because they were righteous.
but any modification without Prophet consent was heresy. All just another method of control, to prevent the lesser castes from modifying and using it without their control and consent.
To prevent uprisings using their own technology, as a kind of deterrent
tropic sandal
I'm super duper mashing that together, but its essentially the way it went.
trail flame
What even started the Covenant I wonder?
versed helm
The end of a war between the Elites and Prophets, over differences on how Forerunner tech should be treated ironically.
versed helm
The Prophets won because they had the Forerunner dreadnought, the keyship.
Yeah - both their homeworlds were rich with Forerunner tech.
I believe the Elites wanted to exploit Forerunner tech in general, and the Prophets held... y'know. Less rational beliefs.
The beliefs that the Covenant would go on to follow after the Prophets used the keyship to beat the Elites into submission.
tropic sandal
they then went on to search for more Forerunner tech on other worlds and beat the species already there into submission the same way. Under the guise of following the path of The Great Journey
versed helm
Presumably the Prophet's beliefs eventually became entangled with deeper philosophies regarding the universe itself to the extent that all their fanatic nonsense seemed sensible.
I would like to know a little more about precise Covenant beliefs and philosophies, though.
tropic sandal
Same
versed helm
Just to get a better understanding of why it meant so much to them.
And why they accepted notions like the Great Journey and the godliness of the Forerunners.
There must be some compelling rationale behind it.
tropic sandal
I thought basically they got high on their own supply?
trail flame
Wait, so did they know of the rings even before the Covenant was formed?
tropic sandal
they believed it at first, then lost faith when they found out it was humanity who were the inheritors, but in keeping the rest of the Covenant under their beliefs they kinda fell back into believing it themselves
?
versed helm
Yes, Slammington. To some extent.
And I don't actually think the three Prophets were all on the some page about their religion being incorrect, though.
Like, Regret and Mercy seem to be driven by raw zealotry.
trail flame
What did the prophets believe about Forerunner tech before they beat the Elites?
Surely they didn't already want to wipe out all life in the galaxy at that point
versed helm
The same thing the Covenant does. That it's sacred and shouldn't be cannibalized.
Understand it without damaging it, y'know?
Anyway, it sees evident to me that Regret and Mercy both believed almost whole-heartedly about the Great Journey.
Regret went off in a craze after Earth the moment he learned that a portal to the Ark was there.
Got his fleet minced by MACs he didn't know were there.
And Mercy - well, Mercy didn't stop babbling about the Great Journey like... ever.
He was probably senile.
Truth, though. Truth is complicated.
tropic sandal
You can see in one of the Halo 2 cutscenes where Mercy is getting right into his fire and brimstone rants over finding the Delta Halo Index, and Truth subtly waves him off, like "yeha yeah cool it off ya crackpot"
versed helm
Interestingly enough, somehow Truth found out about Earth before Mercy did, hence the fleet he amassed which was destroyed during FIRST STRIKE. Presumably through a breach in the Cole Protocol or by finding a different Forerunner luminary.
trail flame
Which cutscene is this btw?
versed helm
Any Arbiter pre-mission cutscene more or less.
tropic sandal
Also when they're making Thel the Arbiter. "The loss of one of the sacred rings racked our hearts with grief" and Truth waves him off saying "putting aside our sorrow.." like to say getting back to the point.
versed helm
But the thing about Truth is that the one thing he did know for sure is that Earth was humanity's homeworld. Regret found a luminary which didn't tell him anything about humanity being there. So most likely, when Truth was preparing to attack Earth, he had no idea Earth was connected to the Halos or the Ark.
He only found that out when Regret blasted it to the whole Covenant and had High Charity brought to Installation 05.
tropic sandal
Wasn't aware of that
versed helm
That's just a theory by the way.
I'm only deducing that Truth didn't know by assuming he learned about Earth from humans, not from a Forerunner luminary.
I think Truth was only going to Earth at first to finish off humanity.
whats a luminary rq
I think while Regret and Mercy who were weak-willed retreated deeper into fanaticism after discovering the Reclaimer problem, Truth became a skeptic of their religion.
not those engineers right
A Forerunner map, basically.
oh
Tend to point to Halo-related things.
but werent engineers like spawns of the forerunners
Yes
kinda like sentient organic sentinels
tropic sandal
Pretty much
versed helm
dope
trail flame
The Huragok?
tropic sandal
Yep
versed helm
ye
But anyway, the theory I'm drifting towards is that Truth knew the truth about the Halo rings all along.
At least he found out a little bit after Harvest.
iirc the high prophets knew that humanity were the reclaimers sometime during like halo wars
And he was trying to steer the Covenant away from Halo rings, so he could both keep his power and not have to die for it.
since only the humans could open forerunner stuff
and since this contradicted what the covenant stood for
they decided not to bring light to it
tropic sandal
I'm curious to see how he would have ogne about dealing with that if they had beaten humanity. Like what now? You know the rings will kill everything, but the whole Covenant expects you to fire them
versed helm
But eventually, he went paranoid and turned on the Elites - when the Schism went bad, he went mad and decided the only option to survive was to beeline for the Ark and nuke the galaxy.
@tropic sandal or was it that the prophets thought only they can achieve salvation or something
tropic sandal
that's why he was ok with letting Mercy get flooded. He can't make trouble when he's dead.
tropic sandal
The only other 2 prophets in power believed the lie which would get him in trouble eventually, one was conveniently flooded and the Chief killed the other. Both would no longer have to be gotten rid of later, his hands were clean, and he even had the added bonus of the Demon to blame it on. Win win for Truth. From there he can spin whatever he wants.
Truth might be one of, if not my favorite character. That dude is complex.
trail flame
Oh wow
Also
I just saw on Halopedia that it was the Sangheili who believed that Forerunner technology was sacred and shouldn't be messed with
And the San'Shyuum were okay with modifying it etc.
"The San'Shyuum believed that incorporating Forerunner technology was allowed by their religion. To the Sangheili, such a thing would have been unthinkable heresy."
But later on in the war, Sangheili scientists secretly developed equipment that incorporated Forerunner technology, so they could stand a chance in their war with the San'Shyuum
And I guess the Sangheili sorta stopped caring so much about "heresy", so that they could actually survive (?)
tropic sandal
I'm guessing that's about the gist of it. In the face of annihilation you'll do whatever it takes to survive.
trail flame
That makes sense
This is all super interesting
Oh wow
There's also a really interesting bit on the Great Journey
"In time, the Sangheili learned of the San'Shyuum's belief in the Great Journey, where the Forerunners used the Halo Array to ascend to a god-like state, and wished to repeat this process on themselves."
tropic sandal
They saw the Prophets using the holy tech without any apparent consequences and they were getting their faces beat with it, so why not use it too?
trail flame
They thought the Forerunners wiping themselves out was an "ascention"
Aye that's also true
tropic sandal
What the Covenant was driving toward the entire time. The Great Journey, the ascent to godhood was their promise. Pretty much only Truth knew that wasn't gonna happen.
trail flame
What did Truth do after the events of Halo 2? Clearly he knew that activating the rings would just kill everyone right?
tropic sandal
Then of course in Halo 2 we see the heretics who found out the lie, and the Prophets attempt to have the Arbiter wipe them out before anyone else started believing them
trail flame
Oh yeah
It's a shame that the Heretic leader was so aggressive
In his last cutscene he totally had a good moment to talk to the Arbiter and convince him, but instead he just started firing at him like an idiot
tropic sandal
In the face of blind faith he had no choice but to escape to spread the truth. He tried explaining to the Arbiter but he wasn't having it. So he had to get away
trail flame
It seemed that the Arbiter was starting to be convinced though
tropic sandal
Didn't go so well
trail flame
In the last part of the Arbiter mission, he doesn't even attack Sesa at the end of the chase
tropic sandal
this is true
tropic sandal
Actually yeah you're right. Why did he insist on shooting Thel? He had his attention, and even had Spark there to convince him
A holy Oracle was right there. Maybe he decided that the Arbiter was too dangerous to keep alive right then?
trail flame
Who knows
"More questions? Splendid, I would be happy to assist you!"
Huh, I change my mind, time to shoot this guy
The Arbiter even puts his gun down when Spark turns to him
tropic sandal
I guess for narrative sake that guy was there to plant the seed of doubt, but not convince him entirely right there.
trail flame
I guess so
I went back to watch some cutscenes starting at that point
It seems that Truth at that point is utterly convinced in the Great Journey
At least he seems pretty adamant about firing the rings, even sending the Arbiter out to retrieve the "Icon"
tropic sandal
Not to discredit your opinion, but I always thought that was a smoke screen. Like he's putting on a show for the Arbiter and Mercy. Playing the part of the religious leader while working out how to wipe out his enemies.
trail flame
That's probably more reasonable to be honest
Would he have planned to stop the rings from firing at the last minute somehow though?
tropic sandal
I really have no idea. In Halo 3 he has Miranda start the ring sequence, knowing full well what they would actually do. But he was going along with it. So OI'm confused.
humble yacht
It wasn't a smokescreen
after Thel had defected and the other prophets died, he was still moving forward with the plan. He had selfish motives behind it for sure; he wanted godhood, he didn't really care about anyone else
but he still believed in the Great Journey
tropic sandal
So he did still believe. Ok yeah fair enough
humble yacht
he was totally fine getting rid of Mercy and Regret though because he wanted to be the only prophet to transcend
tropic sandal
That makes sense
hexed depot
I have a question if a halo movie was being made, would it focus on the Spartans like chief or like something smaller. And where would it take place in the timeline
humble yacht
Also in Halo 3, he used Johnson to start the firing sequence, not Miranda
Tartarus used Miranda to start a Halo in Halo 2
trail flame
Tartarus killed Miranda?
I was under the impression she was alive in Halo 3
Also @hexed depot they could make movies about absolutely anything in the Halo universe
There's a lot to cover
There is already a Halo movie though, right?
Halo Nightfall
tropic sandal
Truth killed Miranda in Halo 3
hexed depot
I meant in theaters
tropic sandal
I would hope that a movie would have nothing to do with the Chief. Focus on something else.
hexed depot
@tropic sandal like ODSTs
tropic sandal
Exactly. They're badass soldiers who also saw most of the big events. Tell their stories
Much less likely to go messing with timelines or get such a well known character wrong that way.
tropic sandal
Chips Dubbo? A personal favourite
rustic canyon
I don't know if here was a movie... I'd want to see Avery Johnson return
special feature for the blu-ray is him giving several lines for the morebadass scenes
tropic sandal
The director's cut would have to be called the legendary edition, with extra scenes and dialogue
rustic canyon
nods
tropic sandal
As an Aussie it's always a hoot to find Chips in game and listen to his dialogue. It was also refreshing to find out that ONI is based in Sydney, just a few blocks from my place.
Hearing our goofy accent among all these other American characters is fun
Really helps sell the idea of a one world government having key places be in recognisable locations all over the world
trail flame
That's so cool
Chips Dubbo had a super distinctive voice
You could always tell it was him
tropic sandal
It's a very distinct accent. I remember playing Halo CE when it first came out, I was 12. You've just woken up from cryo, been told you're under attack and need to get to the bridge, and who meets you in the hallway to guide you? Some burly American soldier like you see in the movies? Nope. Chips, with his fantastic bogan accent. Immediately made the Halo universe feel familiar for me. Was awesome. Been in love with it ever since.
trail flame
"Sir! The Captain needs you on the bridge ASAP, you better follow me!"
That scene is buried in my mind forever
tropic sandal
What a champ
trail flame
So many cool memories from this game honestly
tropic sandal
My heart sank when Bungie said they were moving away from Halo. I grew up on Halo, I was so sad when I thought the series was done. But then 343 came along and kept it going. I'm looking forward to what comes next. I'm not ready to leave this universe
trail flame
Hahaha same
Though I stopped playing Halo after I played reach at the time, I only recently got back into the series
I played through CE one or two times in 2015-2016, and I played 2 in 2016
I haven't played anything since, since I'm on PC, but I'm waiting for MCC
I did play the first couple missions of Halo 3 in 2016 but I stopped playing it early in the campaign at the time
tropic sandal
MCC is going to revive the series.
trail flame
Oh yeah no doubt
I'm really looking forward to playing games like 3 and Reach on PC
But what I'm most excited for is 2 Anniversary
Halo 2 was my favorite campaign easily
I've got a lot of fond memories of it
trail flame
I know right??
When I saw the graphics in Halo 2 Anniversary I thought it was exactly what nostalgia would have made the game look like after a few years
It's wonderful
tropic sandal
It's exactly that. Playing classic games from 15 years ago means accepting that they're going to look dated to an extent and not how nostalgia makes you think they did. But not any more
I'm excited for you. I wish I could relive my first time playing Halo 3. Replaying it is great, don't get me wrong. But nothing is as good as seeing it unfold for the first time.
trail flame
Oh yeah
Having forgotten most of the Campaign, I'm really looking forward to playing again
The feeling of playing through an old game you'd mostly forgotten and seeing all the memories of it coming back to you is beautiful
tropic sandal
Well now I need to go play it again. Getting all nostalgic
trail flame
Hahahaha
I have to say though
Halo 2 Anniversary is how all remasters should be done
They stayed faithful to the art style unlike in CE
My only gripe is that it was a bit dark, but maybe they were trying to play it safe after things like 343 Guilty Spark in CEA
tropic sandal
The problem with CEA was that it wasn't a remaster of the Xbox game. It was a remaster of the existing PC port by Gearbox from like 2002. So it was down on detail. Lighting issues were everywhere.
Halo 2A was perfect
tropic sandal
It was. But I still enjoyed it
humble yacht
You guys know this is lore chat, right?
tropic sandal
Sorry, got sidetracked
trail flame
I guess we can continue this in #general-chat if need be
stiff cove
I heard something about Johnson surviving Halo 3?
gilded mason
Whoever said that would be wrong.
humble yacht
johnson did not survive halo 3
fair hazel
Went the way of the dodo?
fair hazel
Also #BlueTeamWeek
last anchor
Good.
Let the unworthy be singed by the lore. Those strong enough to withstand it will know. Those not will be removed.
shrewd trout
yeah that was a Halo Follower video that popped up today
Did not have the strength to watch it
gilded mason
Halo Follower
...Of course it was him.
spiral lily
Is it Chris? Ron?
Same guy?
Different guys?
So many questions.
So few answers.
storm flume
It's just clickbait. His whole video is about what Frank said on twitter, which is already well established as the only possibility, remotely, that Johnson could survive. There is no hint that they will actually bring him back, but the possibility is technically open should 343 have the want.
I for one want more Johnson stories from before Installation 08, and non-canon appearances like Halo Wars 2
obsidian thistle
Only non-canon or Simulations can bring him back in modern lore.
Outside of flashbacks or reports saying Johnson did x. Like what Halo: Legacy of Onyx did.
storm flume
Yeah Johnson's death is the only impactful thing left from Halo 3's ending, it would be a shame to null that too.
Covenant didn't go away, Flood is back, Spark is technically back, the Ark has been repaired, and there's another ring already.
inner basin
Chief’s ending on the Dawn should’ve ended his story.
hollow elbow
What about
humble yacht
Would have been fine with that
hollow elbow
Noble6
humble yacht
It was a good ending
gilded mason
And then they could move on with other characters.
hollow elbow
Okay soo in reach do you think Noble 6 survived or?
storm flume
No.
gilded mason
He's as dead as a doornail, man
carmine sleet
Six was confirmed dead by both Bungie and 343i
hollow elbow
Wait what????
gilded mason
We saw him die.
hollow elbow
How did I not know about this
humble yacht
Because you didn’t look up the info
hollow elbow
Man noble 6 was a savage