That’s different, it’s on the same planet
#lore-and-universe
inner basin
modest marsh
The UK recognizes US passports and has an embassy to manage immigration
humble yacht
UK and US are extremely similar in how they run their governments
Ideals, politics, etc
modest marsh
Is Gao not?
versed helm
I accept your point, Magg
humble yacht
I dunno. Is it?
inner basin
It’s a different structure. UEG is Earth centralised whereas Gao is more planet governed
modest marsh
I don’t understand your reasoning
humble yacht
Well I mean that’s just one thing. The cultures of us and uk are also very similar. What are the cultural similarities between ueg controlled spaces and Gao?
modest marsh
Gao used to be UEG too
inner basin
UEG colonies are Earth centric governing, whereas Gao is standalone planet governing, I hope that helps
modest marsh
We just discussed this
I don’t see how that’s any different from the US being made up of many states when the UK is just one state
stoic hamlet
Not just looking at cultures here.
With the US, other countries helped them gain their independence, other countries existed at the time. Gao and Venezia are basically the first independent colonies, there was no France or Spain to help them, the UEG is literally all there is.
So they can afford to still treat the independent colonies as rebels because no one else will legitimize them aside from themselves
inner basin
UK is made up of 4 countries though, Magg
modest marsh
There were other rebel factions working with them, and we don’t know how many planets successfully rebelled
I’m talking about Pre-Victorian English empire
stoic hamlet
We know Biko was put down by their own forces, Mamore managed to successfully rebel and hen were slaughtered by Spartan III’s, Gao managed it because no one could risk inflaming tensions, and Venezia slipped through the net, so to speak.
inner basin
You said UK, not English Empire, just saying
stoic hamlet
Those are off the top of my head
modest marsh
Tomato tomato
inner basin
They are actually very different
modest marsh
For the purposes of my argument, it’s not
The UK got significantly more lax with its control over territories after the US successfully rebelled
inner basin
Not really. They held to India and Hong Kong for an extensive amount of time
Same with many other areas too
modest marsh
You’re missing my meaning
inner basin
No I’m correcting you actually
strong pelican
Grunts used to be smart
inner basin
They still are
modest marsh
They continued to hold those territories, but overall hold on the world decreased over time
They aren’t controlling other countries anymore
inner basin
Well that’s because of the Commonwealth
strong pelican
They commit suicide
stoic hamlet
They’re fanatical, that doesn’t make them unintelligent
modest marsh
Well the UEG doesn’t use a commonwealth system, so there’s that
inner basin
Besides planet control is very different from country control, there’s more factors to consider
modest marsh
The whole point was to analogize the relationship between a rebelling nation and its previous ruler
The parallels are distinct and very likely deliberate
I don’t think it’s too much to ask of the UEG and Gao to share embassies with one another, even despite their differences
We have embassies with places we consider enemies too
The UEG just doesn’t respect Gao sovereignty outside of Gao
inner basin
Well it’s different when there’s multiple planets under UEG control and then Gao is a standalone planet
modest marsh
Why is it different for this specific issue
stoic hamlet
Because there’s no one to legitimize them
modest marsh
You’re getting caught up in details that I don’t think are important
inner basin
We have multiple Governments on Earth and then in this case it’s a large one and a single standalone planet
There’s a very good reason
modest marsh
Yes, I get that they’re different, they’re also called different things and are from different places
It’s asinine to point it out
stoic hamlet
There’s no other planets independent who have as much a sway as earth who can start the trend.
With the UEG controlling everything they can continue to treat Gao and Venezia and etc as rebelling planets, not independent entities.
However, colonies are seemingly given quite a lot of independence even still allied to he UEG, and seem, at least post war, more like protectorates than true colonies.
modest marsh
Nothing you said here is like, in disagreement with what I’ve been talking about
Yes, we know the UEG doesn’t recognize them as sovereign nations
inner basin
I just don’t understand why Gao doesn’t join the UEG. They’re not giving up anything necessarily and besides we don’t know how planets are governed
Perhaps there is a local government for each planet
inner basin
Not really, it’s more united
inner basin
Kinda like US
modest marsh
Have you been keeping up with how they were formed to begin with?
The current president of Gao is a megalomaniacal tyrant
Also, Gao citizens hate the UNSC
And UEG by extension
inner basin
Well why would the UEG care then? Let them be with themselves
modest marsh
That’s the thing
They do care because the UEG wants to control Gao, which is what I’ve been saying this whole time
inner basin
How do we know that?
modest marsh
The reason they don’t already is because it isn’t worth the trouble
modest marsh
For one, we can infer from the fact they offer a lot of economical advantages as well as livable space
The war saw to reducing the availability of planets as fertile as Gao
inner basin
Well there’s Harvest
modest marsh
Within the UNSC, it’s known to have Forerunner ruins
Harvest isn’t as good as it used to be, and it’s further away
inner basin
If a planet has natural flooding then there is an availability of fertile ground
stoic hamlet
Speaking of harvest, I hope someone finds Mack’s Jotun and gives it the proper burial it deserves D:
That epilogue still makes me sad.
stoic hamlet
It would yes
Pretty sure Harvest is like.....uninhabitable unless someone terraforms it
modest marsh
Vaporized bodies of water and vitrified soil would make the planet essentially worthless
inner basin
I didn’t think Harvest was glassed
inner basin
Well speaking of Harvest, we do know it has/had a Parliament, meaning we can assume that it had a local government (assuming it was part of the UEG)
inner basin
That’s where my idea of planets having governments who all join up under the UEG comes from. It would be a win-win
modest marsh
You’re not necessarily wrong to think that, but we know that’s never going to happen because of the stances each side tend to adhere to
inner basin
Also taxes are generally used for maintenance and upkeep of a governing entity as well as infrastructure so I don’t know why you associate taxes as a bad thing, they generally are good for a civilisation to have
modest marsh
Because the taxes that outer colonists pay don’t appear to them as a fair exchange
Going back to the American revolution analogy
gilded mason
I imagine some outer colony citizens don't feel they see the fruits of those taxes in a fair way.
modest marsh
The UNSC navy isn’t protecting the outer colonies as feverently as the inner colonies
Which is expected
inner basin
That could be possible, but that could perhaps be because other areas need it more so. Infrastructural upkeep is a hard task to maintain
modest marsh
It’s hard to consider that a worthy exchange when the results are only seen tens of light years away
inner basin
Well living in the outer colonies was their choice
gilded mason
Partly why some would want independence, so that they could have greater control over how their resources are spent.
modest marsh
Not always
If you live in a rural area on the fringes of human space, ten generations down, it is unreasonable to expect them to move in order to pursue a higher quality of life
And living there at all would make immigrating expensive and dangerous beyond consideration for most
inner basin
You can treat it as how living away in the countryside can be seen as more unsafe, as you are less protected
modest marsh
Didn’t we just talk about how interplanetary and terrestrial governments are difficult to compare
inner basin
Whereas if you live in the city, you are more protected as you have plenty of people around as well as a quicker response too
modest marsh
In the outer colonies, if you encounter space pirates, there are no emergency responders
You’re on your own
inner basin
This analogy is comparable compared to the one used earlier
modest marsh
How much do you think the UEG spends on the military budget
Percentage wise
Whatever percentage that is, basically none of that really helps the outer colonists that much from where they’re standing
There is the CAA of course, but I think it’s been long established that was a largely ineffectual branch of the UEG that was eventually replaced outright by the UNSC
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure they do
modest marsh
They should yeah
stoic hamlet
At least in the inner colonies
versed helm
Seems like invaluable operational readiness tbh and I've never heard it said they don't in the outer colonies
I thought one of the things about the outer colonies was that they were militarily overbearing out there, if nothing else
modest marsh
In areas where there was dissent over UEG control, yes
American revolution once again comes to mind
versed helm
I'd like a source, personally, since tbh the inner colonies get their resources from the outer colonies
So it's in the UNSC's interests to, y'know, protect trade
With extreme force
stable schooner
I mean once the Created Covenant Remnants are completely gone I could see another War Of Independence or Civil War.
More planets reclaimed equals more independence movements
versed helm
But at least the UNSC ought to be making such an effort that they can't be criticized Magg
modest marsh
I’m sure the British felt that way too 😛
versed helm
I mean it doesn't necessarily.
it's an ideological thing.
Someone, somewhere is influencing colonial populations in such a way as to make the UNSC seem oppressive and immoral.
modest marsh
Absolutely
versed helm
It's the interests of a group of powerful people for this to be happening.
stable schooner
50-100 years in the future another Inner vs Outer Colonies Separatist War.
versed helm
Not if the problem gets removed before then.
modest marsh
It only needs to look bad for it to be considered a justifiable reason to want to reform how government is controlled
stable schooner
Problem removed equals relaxation in allowing it to happen.
modest marsh
There was no doubt escalation of these opposing ideologies that were exacerbated by generations of repeating the same frustrations for years
The people get gradually more hostile until they find it defensible to take up arms in “defense”
The government lawfully retaliates which is viewed as an act of aggression
versed helm
It's very frustrating to think about.
It's like, I just can't see any valid acceptable reason why someone would hold these sentiments
Like, one of the things that facilitated the Spartan program was a massive CAA vaccination program
That doesn't strike me as poor treatment
stable schooner
I don’t care if every Colony spoke the same language, religion, Culture and Skin Color eventually the Outer Colonies will revolt a Galactic Human Empire is not Sustainable.
versed helm
Well then there's genuinely no hope for humanity
Like, in my mind, UNSC vs insurrection = people who care about humanity vs people who care about made up states.
stoic hamlet
Inb4 John’s parents were antivaccers
versed helm
It couldn't be more black and white.
stoic hamlet
Agree
At the time of the early Insurrection they all genuinely needed each other
They literally couldn’t survive on their own
modest marsh
Personally I am deeply concerned with the UEG’s invasiveness with privacy and property ownership
That offhand comment in Sadie’s Story really has me thinking
versed helm
I've always wondered
How good is civilian intersolar transportation in Halo?
Tbh if you're concerned about privacy and property ownership then individualistic, morally loose, likely heavily corporation-controlled backwater planet-nations doesn't seem like the horse to back
We don't get to see much civilian life in Halo, but how small of a ship can you fit a warp drive on
modest marsh
Likely expensive to get anywhere outside the solar system
versed helm
and is it common or still way to expensive for even the above average consumer?
stoic hamlet
*Slipspace drive
modest marsh
The smallest we’ve seen are private jet sized I wanna say
versed helm
You get what I mean.
modest marsh
They’re ludicrously expensive
versed helm
Well, they were at least regular and affordable enough for the CMA to shuffle troops around that way
After they, y'know.
Gave all their ships to terrorists.
modest marsh
As said in Reach, one of the most expensive pieces of technology developed by mankind
Granted, that was in reference to a military issue Slipspace drive
which are undoubtedly much more expensive given they are required to move massive, heavily armored vessels across the galaxy in the shortest amount of time possible
versed helm
And also need to be capable of doing more than following pre-charted stable slipspace routes
modest marsh
The Spirit of Fire’s Slipspace drive was the size of a small building
This goes back to my earlier point
If it takes all that to move people across human space, it’s unmanageably expensive for a farmer on some backwater planet to move somewhere else
versed helm
Well that's true.
Might make an individual feel a bit disconnected, I suppose.
Lobbying for some kind of subsidized relocation deal for those that want it may be a better alternative to blowing people up.
modest marsh
The relocation deal is joining the UNSC
versed helm
Very true.
versed helm
Well, the Romans didn't have it all wrong.
Backwoods farmers were probably moved there for free
state sponsored in order to help colonize the planet
stable schooner
Roman Empire lasted 1200 years I think their polices has some merit. UNSC need to improve their transportation tech.
versed helm
I think they're aware of that lol
stable schooner
Though only landowning Citizens were Soldiers in the Roman Empire.
versed helm
Well that's not right.
The reward for service was land.
And gradually regulations were relaxed regarding who could join.
But the legion's main recruitment pool post-Marian reforms was extremely poor people from urban regions.
In the Roman Republic, pre-Marius, being a citizen and being a soldier were the same thing, but that wasn't the Empire.
That's where you had that military hierarchy of velites, hastatis, principes and stuff based on social class.
stable schooner
Exactly they were landowning Citizens. Only Citizens could join the Army which after the Edict Of Carcella was all free people of the Empire.
modest marsh
@versed helm the thing is, the colonies have existed for generations and the while the first generation may have made that choice willingly, their descendants did not
versed helm
Sounds like a family issue to me lol
stable schooner
You sound like a Imperialist Looters
versed helm
I'm a fanatical humanist.
Probably civilian transports paid for by the government in order to keep the Orion arm's economy stimulated
It's just like an individual country
not everyone leaves their country
specifically poor people
stable schooner
Why would a outer Colony of say all Hungarian Jews for ex would want to work with American Protestants half a Galaxy away.
versed helm
Because they're all humans, and that's an identity that renders national heritage, religious beliefs and whatever trumped-up, superficial, imaginary in-group/out-group values that've been concocted throughout history utterly meaningless.
stable schooner
Literally don’t think that means anything to a majority of the population especially once the Big Threats And increased relations with other species happen.
versed helm
Wouldn't philosophies like that become more apparent once we made contact with external forces?
Puts it all in perspective, really.
modest marsh
Going back to the “outer colonists joining the UNSC to escape their situation” thing
stable schooner
Hey Elites aren’t United Why should us Humans be.
modest marsh
It would make sense why many of them have insurrectionist sensibilities or sympathetic to their cause
versed helm
I mean even cynic would say "because it gives us an advantage".
modest marsh
And in the most extreme cases, betray the UNSC
stable schooner
All Human realm why not a New intergalactic cross Species Republic
versed helm
Good question.
Because half the universe are apparently still crazed religious fanatics
stable schooner
See so many different angles best I can see is a actual democratic Star Wars Republic.
stable schooner
That can end up all Human led
modest marsh
Isn’t it already heavily skewed lol
versed helm
Hey, not in my playthroughs 👍
stable schooner
Neither mine but I’m pretty sure it’s the default In Mass Effect 2
versed helm
In ME2 I always end up with the ol' asari/salarian/turian boyos
Plus either Anderson or d-face
stable schooner
I played and Beat Mass Effect 1 just so I could get a Alien Citadel Council in 2.
versed helm
But y'know, empathy's the most important thing about being alive. Everything good about being a conscious entity stems from it.
The more barriers you imagine between yourself and another person, the less you can empathize with them.
If those barriers stem from horrible reasons - like, y'know, superficial differences in "race" or religion - then that's a truly horrible thing.
In the context of Halo, as it turns out, aliens are people who you can empathize with, for the most part. Same with Mass Effect.
But at present, in reality, the only other entities we can really empathize with are other humans.
And it's pretty foolish of us to prioritize some of the things we do that interfere with this abstract and powerful capability.
stable schooner
I’d argue that’s a more philosophical debate then a Lore one. Troubled Waters I predict from this.
versed helm
Indeed.
modest marsh
What happened to “humans first” smh
versed helm
In real life I'm humans first, 100%
stable schooner
Escaped Convict<my Cat
versed helm
But that extends to people first if we find aliens who are meaningfully like us (by which I mean share our conscious experience of reality and introspective, self-observing capacity. You know. The "watcher".)
Aaaanyway.
Uhh
stable schooner
Nah first Species that we discover turns out already had Spies in our Population but I digress lol. I’ll only co exist with Bungie and H2A Elites
Grunts seem like a problematic species if left unchecked.
Explosive population and their tendency to eat Humans is dangerous.
stoic hamlet
Reminder that only 2/7 of the Covenant species don’t consume human flesh.
Well, 3/7, the Hunters only rarely do
stable schooner
See this is what creates problems
Also imagine race wars caused from interbreeding between San Shyyum and Humans
versed helm
I can't
Like, I've seen some of the freaky stuff online - I know there are humans who can find anthropologically attractive elements of certain Covenant species
But San Shyyuum? In their Covenant-era state of genetic decrepitness?
No
Nope
stable schooner
Depends if the Healthy San Shyyuum still exist on their home world.
Which is only rumored to not exist
versed helm
We should put a pin in this before someone realizes how messed up we are for thinking about this, huh?
SOOOOOO
MA5s, huh?
Pretty good guns
In need of a retcon or two
Y'know
Just a little
Straight-cased ammunition with futuristic propellant
So they can uh fit all the bullets they have in a magazine
stable schooner
It’s interesting though I could see some form of interbreeding between Humans, Brutes and San Shyyuum.
versed helm
If you seriously wanna talk about this there are places
They try and keep this place PG
stable schooner
All the Primate Type Covenant Species. This is lore and Universe. I’m not looking for PG13.
stable schooner
Fair enough how about the fact Anniversary Marines wear Trooper Armor.
stoic hamlet
I mean, I’d probably discuss it as well but yeah, this isn’t the place
versed helm
Thank goodness
stoic hamlet
I consider that non canon tbh
Well, the markings anyways
The armour is canon, but the markings are most definitely not
versed helm
Actually, I'd suggest that the CEA/Reach armour is probably the most commonly encountered body-armour system across all of the UNSC
versed helm
With the other games depicting specialist BDU variations that are primarily used by certain Marine units
stoic hamlet
Mhm, I’d agree with that
stable schooner
Except the Pillar Of Autumn Marines are seen with their own distinct gear from Trooper Armor in Reach.
versed helm
I imagine those Marines were probably fresh from combat on the orbital defences, maybe?
stoic hamlet
grumble should always be vac-sealed grumble
stoic hamlet
I knooooowwwwwww D:
See I’d even be fine if they made how the Marines look in Reach canon overall (by using them in CEA) but had the full helmet be like, an attachment.
stable schooner
It’s a Shame to cause the Reach Marines look beautiful with the full helms and Dark Brown Colors
stoic hamlet
Have that be their fully armour version seen during Silent Cartographer and Truth and Reconciliation
While still having the non-full faced helmets appear in other missions
versed helm
Btw quick PSA - the colour of a UNSC soldier's body armour and uniform doesn't indicate his branch
stable schooner
Ok?
versed helm
Logically they'd have camo tailored to their environment, and then it'd all get muddled as they get into engagements
And go to unexpected environments
stoic hamlet
Yeah it changes. Even in Reach Army troopers appear in green, tan, brown, etc
stable schooner
I mean true but all Reach Marines have the same Gear, the ones in space with a different color.
versed helm
Well you don't see that many Marines.
stable schooner
True. A lot of Marines appear in Pillar Of Autumn though.
stoic hamlet
Though I suppose the ones that come in with Jorge should be marines, though they use the same pilot skin
Yeah, the end of the level is all marines
versed helm
Well there's some troopers early on
stable schooner
This at one point I think you can get them side by side.
versed helm
But y'know, realistically, UNSC troops just use whatever's available.
Or more likely, whatever they prefer.
On a unit, basis though.
stable schooner
All the Marines on CE Anniversary wearing the same Trooper gear was imo the worst reuse of assets.
Or the wrong reuse of assets.
stoic hamlet
They should have made the first group in Truth and Reconciliation ODST’s
Like they were in The Flood
main rivet
Would have been nice, but no way it was going to happen with the amount of time they had to work with.
stable schooner
I won’t lie though I hate having ODSTs being identical statwise to Marines. To be fair It was a remaster Of CE game not the book
versed helm
Personally I'm not that attached to the idea. Like, it's not a big thing.
ODST armour is probably very heavy. I can imagine there being circumstances where ODSTs strip down their gear.
And if The Flood is anything to go by, ODSTs can ditch their pods before they hit the ground and thruster down.
stable schooner
If ODSTS appear they gotta be like Halo 3 and have different stats in my opinion.
versed helm
So y'know. Don't get too strung out about what The Flood tells you.
stable schooner
I enjoyed Halo 3 ODSTs having more health and immunity to headshot weapons
versed helm
Here's what I would like from all friendly human AI in Halo - how about you just have a simple program where they find a place to bunker down and stay there taking potshots until you deal with the situation
I hate watching them run in
stable schooner
Heck nah All Elite missions would be ruined
Imagine that Zealot just chilling instead of being like “ Hahah long have I waited for this”
versed helm
Obviously I was talking about Marines
Who have no business exposing themselves to enemy fire and running around in the ridiculous way they do
stable schooner
Halo 2 And 3 Marines in quality no less thank you very much.
stoic hamlet
Halo 2 marines were godly
versed helm
Except any time explosions were involved
stable schooner
I managed to complete Outskirts on Heroic just being a Gunner. They were Godly
And that’s more of a Anniversary issue they kill themselves a solid 50% more of the time then in Classic.
ODST with Rocket on Delta Halo went from key strategy to never at all costs cause of pathfinding/awareness bugs
Sorry Delta Halo
stoic hamlet
Aww there’s more parhfinding bugs in H2 anniversary?
Like wall invisible bugs in CEA?
RIP
stable schooner
Ever notice how elites in Uprising won’t follow right
Anniversary is sadly more broken then Classic.
stable schooner
I still have nightmares about Elites not Dual wielding anymore only waking up to realize oh wait their real.
inner basin
The only person that can duel wield in H2A is the player. Why, I don’t know? It annoys me even more so because in one of the cutscenes of H2A (I think it’s Heretic), we see the Elites duel wielding, but then when we are given control again, they aren’t
stable schooner
Cause H2A is based on Vista which was a horrible port filled with even more bugs and evidently no dual wielding Elites.
Yes it especially triggers me when the Cutscenes still show the Elites Dual Wielding.
inner basin
It rubs it in your face
stable schooner
People complain about the CE Gearbox port but at least that’s mostly graphics not broken Gameplay. Sadness even the Halo Wars 2 Elites Dual Wield But not Halo 2A.
inner basin
I want duel wielding in Infinite but it seems like it won’t ever come back
stable schooner
I Bet you right now Reach Elites MCC will Dual Wield before H2A is fixed
versed helm
I swear those Elites on Cairo Station who come over the balcony dual-wield plasma pistols
stable schooner
Those Elites and a 25% chance of a Elite guarding the Cairo Bomb will Dual Wield. 95% rest of the game Dual Wield Elites including the poor Heretic Leader only got 1 weapon
Ally Spec Op Elite in opening of Oracle shamed, 2 Ally Spec Op Elites on the Gondola in Quarantine Zone shamed, Dual Needler Spec Op Elite with the Hunter pair on Great Journey shamed! What’s an Elite gonna do with 1 Needler
inner basin
It’s sad, but not the biggest of issues for the Halo franchise
stable schooner
For Halo 2 definitely the biggest in Scale
Let’s all be thankful their couldn’t be inferior ports of Halo 3 and Reach to PC.
inner basin
That’s true. I would like a H3A but that’s very low on the priority list and I will be fine waiting
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure we all would tbh
unique rune
as someone who hardly cares for H3 I really wouldn't care for a H3A
gilded mason
Same
unique rune
just fix the faces and everything will be fine
versed helm
It's so distracting to me how in Halo 3 they never bothered to model any magazines
All the reload animations look so wonky
unique rune
Do we know what color Lifeworker lighting generally is?
versed helm
Aqua-green ish, I feel.
Maybe the colour of the prometheans before the Didact took control?
Just brilliant blue?
Because they were following the librarian's orders before the Didact took them over, right?
unique rune
Yeah, they were. Though I think blue tends to be more associated with Builders, isn't it?
Some sort of green was what I always figured.
tropic sandal
I always pictured a blue-ish aqua like Luke's lightsaber in the OG Star Wars.
versed helm
So whats a good way to get into the lore after i watch halo 1?
I would play them all but i don’t have an xbox one, i have a pc and ps4.
jovial temple
Read The Fall of Reach
Then The Flood, then Contact Harvest
In that order
While you wait for Mcc to drop on pc
gilded mason
Not First Strike?
jovial temple
I was thinking of where to put First Strike. I haven’t read it yet
gilded mason
It takes place right after CE
jovial temple
Then probably read that in between The Flood and Contact Harvest
Contact Harvest is a prequel to all of books I just listed but The Fall of Reach is a good one to start on
Ghost of Onyx is a good one too
versed helm
You would read it directly after The Flood tho
Though I cannot stress this enough
Do not take everything you read in The Flood seriously
gilded mason
First Strike, to clarify?
versed helm
Just to be totally clear I made two separate statements there
"Read First Strike after The Flood"
"When you read The Flood, be careful because many elements of it are canonically extremely dubious."
Though the same can be said for elements of First Strike.
jovial temple
And The Fall of Reach too lol
tropic sandal
Even the updated version has some inaccuracies. Which is a bit of a bummer. But what can you do.
versed helm
Can someone dm me a list order?
jovial temple
Yes
versed helm
Thanks i really appreciate it, wanna get refreshed for lore before outpost comes to my town
jovial temple
Np
versed helm
Okay i finally have the lore in order including comics, movies, anime, games and novels.
clever fable
time is convoluted in Lordran the Haloverse.
versed helm
At a few very specific points, yes
unique cloak
Wouldn't you want to read Contact Harvest before The Flood, since it's based before, @jovial temple ?
jovial temple
you don't have to read the prequels first unless you absolutely want to but the fall of the reach book was printed before contact harvest so some of it's content is more suitable to newer readers.
unique cloak
That's true, and I guess reading Contact Harvest before The Flood would just be the basic in-order story
jovial temple
I think the fall of the reach book was the first halo book published, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
but if you wanted to go chronologically then you would start with the forerunner saga
and that would confuse the heck out of newcomers lol
unique cloak
Oh yeah totally haha
I accidentally read the Kilo-5 trilogy backwards when I first got my hands on all three books
stoic peak
when it comes to the Gen 1 Mark 4 up to the Gen 1 Mark 6 is the techsuit/ bodysuit separate from the outer shell like we see with the Gen 2 or is it one thing ?
clever fable
I always assumed it was separate. At the very least, Cortana's edited Mk 6 shows it being taken off at the end of Halo 4.
foggy basalt
@stoic peak have you seen the Halo 4 spartan ops cutscenes?
@clever fable that’s to you too
clever fable
Yeah, but it's a been a minute since I last saw em.
foggy basalt
It took you only 2mins nice work
carmine sleet
I don't see the relevance of Spartan Ops to the specs of Mjolnir and how they made Mark IV work on Gen 2 platforms, Jason
carmine sleet
You didn't need to tag me
carmine sleet
And no, I haven't seen it. I have read up on the events of the novel it's based on though
foggy basalt
Okay maybe try to find the part where 14yo spartan 2 candidates receiving their mark 4 part
And the end of Halo 4 when Chief is taking off his armour
Since you can clearly see an black under suit
carmine sleet
Just because the undersuit was black doesn't mean that allows for older armour to be used on newer platforms
foggy basalt
Oh you are talking about recycling older gen suits
carmine sleet
The most likely reason why Mark IV and other old sets work on Gen 2 is that they upgraded and modified the old tech to work on the newer platform
foggy basalt
I thought you were talking about if the under suit and armour are separated
carmine sleet
No, because the people were talking about Mark IV being compatible with the gen 2 platform and not being sure why
foggy basalt
Maybe it’s upgraded to modern standard just like the swords of shanghilos upgrading their old ships
Plus I don’t think everything in gameplay is cannon
carmine sleet
They weren't talking gameplay
foggy basalt
Since at the end of Halo Reach when you see master chief that wasn’t cannon
Also I don’t think you need to open all the Halo Novels to find out why the UNSC still uses old tech. Older tech can be more reliable as well,
Plus the gen 4 was designed for spartan 2 operatives, it’s expensive, advanced and increases reaction time. It’s still a very good equipment, no need to grow it away.
carmine sleet
You ignored the part where I talked about them upgrading Gen 1 stuff for use on Gen 2. Also, there's no Gen 4 Mjolnir, the highest we have is Gen 3 but we don't know much about it outside of Chief's new suit in Infinite being Gen 3 and what was said about Gen 3 in the Field Manual
foggy basalt
Oops mark 4 i meant
Gen 1 was still in use during late 2557 by black team
I mean I was prototype gen 1
It
Even mark 5 is still being used by grey team
No equipment used during H/C war is outdated
Gen 3 was covered by Hiddenxpiera already
I think Halo Cannon also covered it
carmine sleet
Black Team were using Mjolnir Black, a prototype suit that had many design elements incorporated into the Mark VI seen in Halo 2 and 3. Grey Team only used Mark V during 2558 because they had been MIA and in Cryo. They had no chance to get a new suit until after they were done on Carrow
foggy basalt
Noble 6 prob still use it
carmine sleet
Six died in 2552, both Bungie and 343i have confirmed this fact
foggy basalt
But you see the possibility is still there
I have Hope
Especially 6 was one of the best Spartan
abstract zealot
Doesn’t stop him from dying.
carmine sleet
There is no possibility of Six being alive, he died on Reach
foggy basalt
No you are wrong you are wrong
abstract zealot
No. I’m ExPo. And that’s Slipstream.
carmine sleet
If I could, I'd post the gif that says Six is still dead
foggy basalt
Not dad jokes
wispy bough
@foggy basalt don’t try to bypass the filter pls
foggy basalt
Oh why is there rules on every big discord servers
carmine sleet
Because they're big Discord servers and so they need to manage the large amount of people
abstract zealot
There are 6000+ people online currently in this server. That doesn’t include people offline. Rules like that make it easier for less than probably 100 mods and admins to manage.
foggy basalt
Okay i am just saying that I don’t use these words often, only use it for extradition
carmine sleet
Who's being extradited?
wispy bough
Yeah well that’s how it is. Back to lore discussion pls.
abstract zealot
^
abstract zealot
I disagree.
main frost
Don't bypass the filter. If you have questions about moderation pm a mod. It isn't allowed to be discussed in chat.
foggy basalt
Ok at least you understand
abstract zealot
I personally feel that Noble Six dying was a must. It added to the importance of the mission and how much of an impact the Fall of Reach was. On top of that, I felt that his death, along with the rest of Noble Team, was in a way symbolic.
Sorry. I’m a slow typer and I’m also in the middle of something.
foggy basalt
I think Noble 6 being alive fits the theme, Cortana said that Noble had luck on him as well
Sure it’s against sacrifice
abstract zealot
I don’t recall her saying he had luck. He was equal in skill and trustworthiness to that of John, but nothing regarding luck if I remember correctly.
carmine sleet
Luck was never mentioned by Cortana in reference to Six. Chief is the only one she used luck when talking about them
abstract zealot
Yeah.
unique rune
I don’t care much for Reach’s campaign, but revealing that B312 survived would be a huge mistake. Screws with the intent of the campaign, and is... pretty nonsensical to boot.
carmine sleet
Aye, agreed Emperor, it would ruin what made the campaign so iconic. The fact that the majority of the characters introduced in the game died added weight to the universe, especially for those who have not read the novels where we see many more Spartans died
somber wave
Well at the end of reach Cortana says that “I wish you could’ve lived to see it” a little in to the cutscene so I would assume he dead
humble yacht
That wasn't Cortana delivering that eulogy. That was Halsey
jovial temple
Six is dead
No doubt
If we wasn’t, Jun woulda brought this up somewhere in the lore
somber wave
It would be interesting if he was alive but it would kinda ruin reach as a whole
Besides jun exists
jovial temple
Another clue is when jun goes to recruit buck into the spartan IV program. Buck mentions six saving him on reach and jun refers to six in past tense saying, “he was a good man.” So if six was still alive then that implies he’s a traitor or went rogue but yeah he’s most definitely dead
Jun exists, indeed
somber wave
Was is a key word in that sentence and six doesn’t sound like the person who would go rogue unlike Mickey
Not to mention you LITERALLY WATCH HIM GET STABBED
jovial temple
Yeah “was” is def the key word here. And well you don’t see it as the camera pans away but I mean yeah he was being overwhelmed by two zealots and a third showed up igniting his blade right before it panned away. Even IF six survived that encounter he would still have to plow his way through army’s of the covenant.
He had every chance to leave when keys offered six in a ride in key’s pelican but six declined
He knew he was going to die on reach
jovial temple
That as well
It woulda made the atmosphere of the what the game built up just irrelevant
The atmosphere of the covenant winning
somber wave
It also shows how desperate humanity is in CE as well
warped nimbus
and the atmosphere of that entire last mission, being just survive
and you fail to end it
stable schooner
I just wish noble team had less dumb or unnecessary deaths.
inner basin
What do you mean, Six is in a cave 😉
^ That’s jokes, but in my personal canon, which slightly alters from actual canon, Six is alive.
weak phoenix
Because now that the spartan IV exists. Would that technically mean that six is the last spartan III
And this is where i remember jun
gilded mason
There are still Spartan 3s around, even besides Jun
carmine sleet
Allot of the Gammas are unaccounted for, Tom and Lucy were on Onyx last we saw them and Jun is now a recruiter for the S-IV program
inner basin
There is also Kevin-A282 and Owen-B096.
There are even more than those two I tend to think of. This may help https://www.halopedia.org/SPARTAN-III_program particularly at the personnel section
carmine sleet
I would like to learn more about Rosenda-A344 at some point. Especially if she survived the war or not
inner basin
That is an interesting one. Considering how she was a rotational member for Noble, I wonder if any of the other Spartan-III Fireteams (Gauntlet, Red and Echo which are the ones we know of) had rotational members
carmine sleet
It's possible but due to the lack of info we have, there isn't much we can look into as to whether or not they do have rotational members
inner basin
Well at least not yet, fingers crossed that’ll change 🤞
carmine sleet
Aye, agreed. I'd love to learn more about them
Doesn't need to be anything too big, just some info released in a Canon Fodder article or something like that and I'd be happy
inner basin
I also recall a fifth Fireteam. We don’t have a name, all we know is that they were at Tribute and died protecting a Pelican or some other evac craft taking civies away from the capital. I wonder if they had rotational personnel how they’d feel upon learning of the team’s demise, maybe how Roseanda may have felt after learning about Noble and Jun being the last alive.
carmine sleet
I feel like she'd want to meet up with Jun and talk about it for certain
inner basin
If we don’t get anything on Cat-2’s then at least give us something on Headhunters. I feel that the Spartan-IIIs are the most unexplored part of the UNSC
stoic hamlet
^^^^^ x 10000
actually i wouldn't say the most unexplored, but IMO the ones needing the most exploration post war
inner basin
I guess me and you are hardcore S-III fans then
inner basin
I can agree on that. Who’s your favourite out of curiosity?
fair hazel
outpost discovery
stoic hamlet
my favourite? I don't think i have one.Gamma is my favourite company though.
inner basin
Erick I wish I could go, but I live over in the UK, and I’m hoping it comes across the pond sometime in the future. Also Gamma is a strong pick, but I do have a few favourites. If I was allowed to, I’d pick the 2 fanmade ones I made, but if not then I’d either go with B312, Owen-B096 or Kevin-A282
jovial temple
B312 is all time fav spartan III for me. The game sets that in stone
The lore needs to explain more about their augmentations and how they really compare to spartan II’s and just post war stuff
inner basin
We know what their augmentations are
humble yacht
The lore is pretty clear about their augmentations
inner basin
@jovial temple It’s called Project Chrysanthemum. This may help you out https://www.halopedia.org/Project_CHRYSANTHEMUM
versed helm
Okay so i just got done learning about the fore runner war, and i just read halo genesis
The fore runnerwar was pretty bad as they created the flood and used the humans to use the advantage while kidnapping more to create a war and use the rings to their own advantage.
unique rune
the summoner war
which anime is this
versed helm
My bad i mistyped it. lol
fair hazel
forerunners did not create humans..
gilded mason
I think you still have some things confused.
versed helm
Wow i don't know what i was typing. lol
gilded mason
Forerunners didn't create the Flood.
versed helm
That's weird that's i got out of a summary and explanation from it.
gilded mason
Where'd you read the summary?
versed helm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPmuX2jd2ZU this is where i mainly tried understanding it.
Also this but this one was very vague
gilded mason
Regardless, you should probably use Halopedia for Halo wiki needs in the future.
versed helm
It just seems it's a lot of information to try and cram in one go
trail willow
Flood=corrupted precursor dust
Precursors we pretty pretty much godly level they made species
sonic plover
the forunners put magic precursor dust on all their dogs to make them fashionable and then said “uh oh!” when their dogs became zombies
gilded mason
Humans and San'Shyuum did that, to clarify.
sonic plover
halo is good because the clarification here is WHO used the magic puppy powder, not the existence of magic puppy powder
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
Honestly we really didn't need to know about the Pheru tbh
I guess it's an interesting-ish backstory for the the species which would become the typical pod infector?
That's what it is, right?
gilded mason
No clue.
versed helm
Pfffsh
Question - so apparently this Flood powder was used over several centuries, to the extent that it just became a common thing to use this powder to influence the behaviour of Pheru
So does that mean that the humans and prophets were actively producing more of the substance?
Just casually, y'know
Making more latent FSC or whatever
Cuz wouldn't that mean a good portion of the Flood genome is like, artificial?
Or was there just such an insane surplus of dust that it lasted generations
And retrieving the dust from the ships that carried it became an industry
Nah, dumb question
They must've made more
They must've found a way to replicate it without fully understanding it
Some cloning-like process
last anchor
Maybe it self replicated
Leave it alone for a bit in a damp environment and there would just be more
full forge
Mona Lisa seems to take some serious liberties with flood infection.
People just start breathing air and dying, get a laceration? Flood.
I get flood spores and all but like
Chief gets cut by an infection form in Halo: The Flood
It nearly reaches his nervous system before Cortana shocks it to death.
versed helm
S'not a big thing, tbh.
Flood forms - especially combat forms - come in a pretty breathtaking array of shapes, sizes and horrific mutations, as TML shows.
versed helm
That particular Marine was sliced open by a form that seemed specifically intended to deposit small infection forms into the target.
Probably a unique adaptation to the organism's circumstances - that outbreak was in the stage where all that mattered was consuming new hosts and getting smart enough to move the ship.
full forge
If all it takes is the Flood supercell to enter the body, Chiefy boi should be a popcorn machine in power assisted armor.
versed helm
There's probably a certain threshold above which the body can't neutralize the threat.
Less an individual cell, more a sufficient mass.
full forge
but this is nylund, and the flood wasn't as fleshed out then.
gilded mason
Nylund didn't write The Flood
versed helm
Plus, Spartan genes. We've already established that Johnson's S-I gene therapy is what momentarily confused the flood that went for him, right?
gilded mason
If that's what you were saying
versed helm
Chief's probably in a similar boat.
full forge
issa "supercell" I don't think the body neutralizes it, it neutralizes and replicates throughout the body.
versed helm
That's a tad reductive, don't you think?
fair hazel
The flood cells in John's body were neutralized
And it doesn't take liberties
It's part of how the flood operate
full forge
How were they neutralized without killing John?
fair hazel
You said you get spores. Now lacerations, yes flood can infect if flood cells get into the host
versed helm
Well part of the how the Flood operate is to be unpredictable and highly circumstantially adaptive too - always worth keeping in mind.
fair hazel
BZZZZZZZ
full forge
Unpredictable? Maybe. Purposefully not infecting someone...? I think that's pushing it.
what does bzzzzz mean
versed helm
Purposefully not infecting someone wasn't so much the point as
Some outbreaks probably reach a higher threshold of virulence and operate differently than others.
full forge
I don't think that's relevant to a collection of flood cells performing a hostile takeover.
versed helm
Plus, I'd have to re-read The Flood but I'm not sure that the pod infector had that much opportunity to infect the Chief.
Yeah, it cut him, but it didn't really slobber a bunch of FSC into him, and it was just a pod infector.
Plus unfortunately, despite the fact that I love the book with all my heart, The Flood should be canonically discounted before any other source.
As an adaptation of Halo CE it does a wonderful job, but not as part of the wider Halo universe.
full forge
It was just a single infection form that plopped on him from above a doorway, sliced through his suit, and was halfway to his nervous system before Cortana zapped it
And made little popcorn flakes.
fair hazel
Zapped
full forge
I don't remember exactly what she did.
versed helm
It's not hard to imagine a circumstance in which minimal material from the pod infector actually made it inside Chief's body.
His suit wasn't heavily breached.
Just a bit of an incision.
full forge
I don't really know how it made it past his shields in the first place though.
versed helm
Weren't they down from the fight beforehand?
He'd just been bashed by a combat form with a wrench or something.
full forge
Not heavily, but that's all it really takes anyways right?
versed helm
To be entirely honest, I'm not sure of the interaction between energy shields and pod infectors anyway
I get the feeling that the instant popping maybe be a game mechanic
Energy shields are just barriers, as far as I know.
full forge
I mean, nobody is immune and nobody can just have their body win against the super cell.
Johnson could have been infected, the forms just took priority over the others because they would make better combat forms and be more responsive.
versed helm
Ehhh, I mean, I don't know a terrible amount about how viruses and the immune system work on a cellular level
But I'm pretty sure that no matter how potent it is, a single cell won't do much
I know that seems to discount the Flood a little as a threat, but it doesn't really.
full forge
I'm assuming the supercell is just that. A completely self-sufficient micro-organism that can replicate within a host.
And I don't know where you get the idea of just one making it in.
WAIT
versed helm
What we can infer, though, is that when the FSC adapts itself into a tool - say, a penetrator spike - it sacrifices its disease-like capabilities.
Bone cells don't work the same way as disease cells.
full forge
Can the flood supercell be killed with disinfectant?
Because biofoam is a disinfectant.
versed helm
Well there's a possibility
But I happen to think that "bone cells don't work the same way as disease cells" is pretty compelling.
I don't think every part of a flood entity is infectious 100% of the time
full forge
I mean, flood cells can change properties.
versed helm
Yeah, but instantly?
full forge
You played Halo 3? Pure forms.
full forge
well it pretty well is instant
versed helm
You're talking to a dude with a profile picture of a UNSC Marine from an obscure Halo comic dude
The heck do you think
unique cloak
I hope they explore a little more in to the Flood in Infinite, if the Flood is in that at all
full forge
Mhm
full forge
Nah, Biofoam.
versed helm
Lay out for me exactly what happened when you think Chief should've been infected
full forge
I'm gonna say it's the biofoam.
versed helm
I mean, I wouldn't buy that.
If sufficient FSC material entered the body to trigger infection, it should've been too late.
You saw how fast those Marines got infected?
It powered through their body instantly.
They got sick fast.
Oh wait, yikes - I actually don't buy it any more.
full forge
I mean, that is after it was already inside of them.
versed helm
A Marine got infected after being bitten on the cheek by a newly infected.
full forge
And their injuries were more severe.
versed helm
Off teeth and saliva.
From someone whose body hadn't even changed fully yet.
Nah, hold on, this is a problem.
But if a better resolution can't be met then The Flood just isn't canon in this instance btw
As I said before
It tends to run afoul of newer canon
full forge
In all those cases it's clearly already in the bloodstream.
unique cloak
I'm not too sure about the augmentations of a Spartan but those could even play a role in this kind of thing?
stable schooner
It takes a lotta of Spores to infect change my mind
full forge
No.
@stable schooner "ONE SINGLE FLOOD SPORE CAN DESTROY A SPECIES."
change my mind
versed helm
More spores = faster, though.
stable schooner
Rtas doesn’t have proof for that statement
full forge
Really? RTAS
stable schooner
He’s only fought the flood since 04
Name me a species that went extinct by the flood during Rtas life time
full forge
Yeah, he only watched as a few ships in his fleet was unnoticably infectes
By his I mean the fleet he's in.
stable schooner
Plus wether he means Infection Form or spore is debatable
unique cloak
I think most species went extinct by The Flood before the rings went off the first time
versed helm
Alright, I'm gonna throw down some quotes from The Flood - 2010 edition
full forge
rtas is handsome and incapable of wrongdoing
stable schooner
Flood infested air clearly doesn’t infect
stable schooner
None of the Marines are infected by air
versed helm
Cuz I gotta re-read the story
full forge
Html?
versed helm
And the story is probably canon
gilded mason
rtas is handsome and incapable of wrongdoing
👌
full forge
Tml?
stable schooner
All the Marines and people were physically infected in Mona Lisa
full forge
Wasn't there one who just drops without any clear causes and starts coughing?
Been a while :/
stable schooner
I’m pretty sure after direct combat with the flood.
full forge
where flood spores were released
stable schooner
But no one is infected by them or turned into flood by them
full forge
They're actually fairly large judging by Halo 2's end cutscene
versed helm
"Without warning, a combat form leaped on his back and smashed a large wrench into his helmet. His shield dropped away from the force of the blow, which allowed an infection form to land on his visor."
stable schooner
One marine is turned by spores from the Combat Form entering his bloodstream
versed helm
Presumably his shield was damaged prior
full forge
hammer boi going hard
stable schooner
No one in any Halo game is infected by Flood air in gameplay or Cutscene and in the books from what I’ve seen it’s inconsistent
versed helm
"Even as he staggered under the impact, and pawed at the form's slick body, a penetrator punched its way through his neck seal, located his bare skin, and sliced it open."
Intense.
versed helm
"The Spartan gave a cry of pain, felt the tentacle slide down toward his spine, and knew it was all over."
Perspective switches to Cortana
stoic hamlet
I don’t believe the spores can outright infect you tbh. I wouldn’t mind if they retconned it to have Orlav(?) get infected via form instead of seemingly spores in his bloodstream.
Make spores able to speed up infection, but not infect outright.
stable schooner
Exactly my thoughts especially when the powder took generations
full forge
I don't see a situation where a body can resist infection.
stoic hamlet
It would explain how in Halo 3 marines turned in seconds where’s in CE they didn’t for several seconds, up to a minute at least.
full forge
The powder was never intended to become the Flood.
versed helm
Orlav got infected because the thing that sliced her open left a little infection form swimming in her wound.
stable schooner
Or how a weak Infection Form in the Flood couldn’t fully control Jenkins
versed helm
Then, uh, Gersten got infected when Orlav bit his cheek after getting infected.
full forge
In CE it took long because they were wea-
stoic hamlet
Ah it was Gersten, right.
stable schooner
Halo 2 flood were 10 Times more powerful then the infestation on 04 and those Spores turned notta
versed helm
Alright so what seems to have happened in The Flood is that the only thing that actually got under Chief's skin was a sharp-tipped tentacle.
stoic hamlet
But yeah have Gersten get hit by a form and infected, not via spores.
versed helm
Well he didn't get infected by spores
He got infected by the saliva of an infected individual
full forge
Precursors:
- Capable of teleportation, star roads, etc
- Instead turn to powder to escape forerunners
stable schooner
Also I don’t see Rtas wearing mouth protection when fighting the flood in Halo 2.
versed helm
Tbh that's an assumption
full forge
@stable schooner I'm just gonna chalk that up to energy shields.
versed helm
We don't know entirely what the specifics are of what transpired
stoic hamlet
Well yeah but I mean, that’s seemingly the exception not the rule to how the Flood infects
stable schooner
What about the Marines Veronam
versed helm
Like, look at the Forerunner trilogy - the Halo array's firing turned out to be way more complicated than we thought it would be
There may not have been spores on The Mona Lisa
full forge
what marines? They're popcorn now.
versed helm
Also, point about Halo 2 - remember that terminal where you see an Arbiter wear breathing gear?
Maybe the Arbiter has a little rebreather he can attach when he needs it.
Just sayin'
full forge
Like, you fight through a lot of infected humans in Quarantine Zone.
stoic hamlet
That was for an EVA op on a moon
stable schooner
We see marines surviving through the flood fog in Halo 2 and 3
versed helm
Btw can we just re-iterate here that Halo 3 is the culprit for the whole spore discussion
The Mona Lisa didn't have any spores
stoic hamlet
It’s possible I suppose they equipped gas masks and the like and gameplay just didn’t show it.
versed helm
^^^
Gameplay doesn't show a lot of things that we now know to be canonical truth
Like variants existing alongside one another
stable schooner
Marines in Floodgate for one survive no masks
stoic hamlet
But gameplay isn’t canon
Marines often aren’t wearing what they should be canonically
stable schooner
They can die but have Dialogue for surviving
full forge
But they're an exception. I don't know how the suicidal marine didn't get infected. I'm gonna chalk that up to Bungie's "Rule of Cool" where they ignore what's more logical in favor of what's more interesting.
stable schooner
Dialogue is though
versed helm
How can you do that though Veronam
The "Rule of Cool" doesn't exist in the Halo universe
How can that satisfy a question
stable schooner
Spores don’t infect. That’s what the evidence presented to me suggests the most.
Speed up Infection sure
full forge
No, but it's Bungie's reasoning for doing some things that aren't necessarily canon.
stoic hamlet
I.E, in the opening of Truth and Reconciliation the marines should be ODST’s, not regular marines, but they are for gameplay, even in CEA.
How something looks in game isn’t always its canon appearance.
versed helm
Personally I think spore production is just a thing that only starts when you have a relatively high-tier outbreak
full forge
Speed up infection makes no sense to me when infection is incredibly fast regardless.
versed helm
Producing them in great numbers may require specific bio-machinery
stable schooner
Why would the Marines in Halo 3 have had masks if they weren’t expecting flood.
versed helm
And I think either breathing gear was used or what we think of as spores in these instances actually isn't spores
But like
Just gunk
Inert gunk
full forge
Those marines canonically died I can guarantee you.
stable schooner
They have Dialogue that suggests otherwise
full forge
I've never heard it.
stable schooner
“We need to the get the hell out of here” ready up Marines”
Second group of marines if they survive
stable schooner
Basically
versed helm
And it's better that way because it doesn't invalidate anyone's playthrough
full forge
Gameplay is always a stretch, let's get back to what we know.
full forge
The Flood managed to replicate so quickly during the Human-Forerunner war that millions would be converted and the planet lost in hours.
stable schooner
Dialogue is Canon. I won’t budge on that
full forge
I don't see how they could do that without being airborne.
versed helm
Well I mean, those instances wouldn't just be a one-spore takeover
It'd be a large invasion
stable schooner
Those were Galactic level flood though with billions of flood already
versed helm
But we know spore-producing biomachines and the like exist just from Halo Wars
full forge
I don't see how a body can just reject the flood.
stable schooner
Johnson
gilded mason
No
full forge
I don't see how the body could manage to kill one cell.
gilded mason
Johnson is not immune
stable schooner
Resistant
full forge
Johnson was
A: Lucky
B: Unprioritized
C: Plot armor
stable schooner
Which is enough against a tiny spore
full forge
According to the books?
versed helm
First Strike, at least.
Where Johnson explains that he survived and how he did becomes a plot point.
full forge
In First Strike he tells Chief "They just went right around me!"
versed helm
FFS dude
Finish the book then
They conclude his survival was down to Boren's syndrome and Chief has this whole moral conundrum
full forge
Because they didn't want none of his nasty spinal responsiveness
versed helm
But as well now know, Boren's syndrome = SI genetic tampering.
full forge
ffs dude lemme finish lmao
stable schooner
We can’t factor in plot armor all events are of equal worth in this discussion
full forge
I disagree, Bungie loves to ignore painfully direct flaws in favor of what's cool.
They tried retconning the fall of reach for crying out loud
stable schooner
But their version is Canon wether we like it or not.
versed helm
The intent of First Strike was for him to have survived because of genetic trickery
But Breaking Quarantine effectively served as a retcon
Apparently he was just too mean and green to die
full forge
Breaking Quarantine?
versed helm
A really cool comic depicting his escape in the Halo Graphic Novel
gilded mason
Comic from the Graphic Novel
versed helm
There's a panel which shows him yanking an infection form off
I assumed that reflected First Strike - his unusual genetic traits somehow stunned the infection form
Turned out he was just actually pulling it off
And being a badass
full forge
Does Johnson's pelican in First Strike have a name?
versed helm
The double entendres there are pretty intense I know
full forge
Because I hear Dustin Echoes would be a pretty good name for a pelican.
stable schooner
Ai and stuff since you said you prefer sit and wait for chief to do his thing Marines.
versed helm
I mean
When they're in dense groups they shoot each other a lot
But they have pretty good grenade placement and they're decent at staying out of trouble.
stable schooner
Them moving sporadically like they just drinked 5 bottles of dew and horrible rate of fire kill them for me. Shame cause their ai is pretty good. But then I look at Halo 2 marines and wonder if theirs a thing called being to OP
versed helm
Halo 2 Marines can be too aggressive tho
full forge
Grenades? Spot on in CE for sure.
versed helm
Like they're strong, but there's that bit on Outskirts with the snipers that they always advance on, down the alley
And just get picked off so fast
And they also always blow one another up with rockets
full forge
And I wouldn't call Halo 2 marines OP in the slightest. I have issues with them just not shooting at enemies.
Give them a sniper rifle and long sightlines and they'll do a good job though.
stable schooner
I’m a pretty good shot so usually it’s just the sword Elite that gets them. Anniversary broke their awareness though sadly. I had a ODST headshot a Shield Jackal as soon as I staggered it
full forge
Oh, did Vista break the marines in MCC?
stable schooner
Their fire rate, Aimbot and decent squad AI is easily puts them at best in the series. Though Halo 3 Marines have better squad Ai. Yeah their ability to register objects in front of them and especially their pathfinding took a big hit cause of Vista.
Playing Halo 2 in the Metropolis tunnel on Classic vs Anniversary you notice a big difference in the rate of rocket Suicides
So it’s important to remember Halo 2 Marines aren’t at their full potential anymore. I wouldn’t mind killable Spartan 4 allies like Halo 4 again @versed helm
But getting back to Lore why are Spartan 3s Smaller?
full forge
Because their augments are meant to be cheaper, above all safer and less intrusive
versed helm
Can someone give me a summary of ghost of onyx?
full forge
So they didn't get the bone grafting the SIIs got.
stoic hamlet
Their augments were purely chemical
They didn’t need the bone grafting as chemicals did the same thing the S-II’s augments did
Hence they’re smaller, usually around high 5-mid 6 feet out of armour.
stable schooner
Blue Team With Halsey And Spartan 3s are trapped on Forunners Shield World Onyx And attacked by Elite Separatists. @versed helm
stoic hamlet
That’s.....that’s a summary of the last bit of the book
But yeah
The ending really
But yeah
full forge
@versed helm
Onyx used to be a planet for training SIIIs, until sentinels emerged from the ground and overwhelmed UNSC forces, forcing them to destroy the sentinels at their source. Covenant invade, forcing the Spartans deeper inside onyx until they go into a sort of slipspace bubble and trap themselves inside.
stuff happens
read
stoic hamlet
You really should read it yourself yeah
feral oyster
I like this Halo Podcast, they have a summary https://www.halopodcastevolved.com/shows/podcast-evolved/episodes/onyx-hbc
full forge
I think Lucy is 5'8 or something?
versed helm
I'll eventually get to reading the books, i've got way to many books on my plate. lol
full forge
B091 Lucy
stoic hamlet
She’s 5’3” IIRC
stable schooner
I won’t lie I haven’t Read Ghosts Of Onyx since 2010.
stoic hamlet
Hav gud slep fren
stable schooner
Don’t let the flood spores infect you
versed helm
This is like my first time diving into halo lore, trying to get as much as i can before i go to outpost.
stoic hamlet
Or do if you’re into that sort of thing
Welcome to the EU then @versed helm
arguably the “true” halo, at least in terms of how things actually work in-universe
stable schooner
Honestly with the number of Spartan 3s alive 343 should have just went with them. Hisssssssssss
versed helm
I made the mistake and chose mass effect EU instead of halo. Realized halo has much better writing, later on.
stoic hamlet
But they might have killed off a bunch @stable schooner so it’s a win loose situation
hoards Gamma’s protectively
stable schooner
Theirs hundreds left though
stoic hamlet
332 yeah
versed helm
It sounds like Onyx is generally spartan training on a planet\
stable schooner
Gamma needs the experience
versed helm
From what i'm gathering from this podcast
stoic hamlet
as far as we know as of 2558, 332 still alive
stable schooner
Heck for a while before the age of Halo YouTubers I remember people thinking Noble were Spartan 2s
stoic hamlet
They still think that
Regular fans think a lot of things.
That aren’t at all accurate
stable schooner
Strange Choice for Bungie to go with Spartan 3s over 2 on Reach of all places
stable schooner
Wait what?
stoic hamlet
They were in charge of the EU since Cole Protocol
And made all the material that mentioned Noble as III’s, brought in Nylund to write Halsey’s Journal and smooth over everything
Bungie never directly states or implies Noble are III’s IIRC, ever
stable schooner
Ahhhhhhhh. Then why not use 2s I know not all the 2s were named yet
inner basin
I didn’t know that 343 had been around for that long
stoic hamlet
It wasn’t technically 343 but it became 343, essentially.
At least as far as I understand it.
inner basin
Ah gotcha
stable schooner
Still Reach should have been a Spartan 2 game of all Games in my opinion
inner basin
I mean Jorge was there in the team, but I agree it should’ve been a full team of S-IIs
stoic hamlet
But there’s a lot to mend fo it
stable schooner
Had Reach been their home would have added character to the whole team
Not just Jorge
inner basin
We did see that parallel with Jorge though in-game, so it’d be interesting how different Spartan-IIs interacted to the invasion.
stable schooner
Indeed but Nobles doesn’t feel like a part of Reach, it’s just another Planet for them
inner basin
Well that’s how it was for all the IIIs in the war tbf. Just another planet.
stable schooner
Exactly missed opportunity for a Reach Game.
gilded mason
And made all the material that mentioned Noble as III’s, brought in Nylund to write Halsey’s Journal and smooth over everything```
Huh, never knew that. You got a source so that I can read more about it?Same for the II’s until Reach as well
I’ll try and find it, I admit it’s highly likely hearsay. @gilded mason
inner basin
Well Reach was a fortress so I guess they didn’t think about it
stoic hamlet
AFAIK that was the situation but I could very well be spreading incorrect info with that.
gilded mason
Ah
stable schooner
Also I love how Regret breaks through to Earth with only 15 ships against 84 UNSC ships plus MAC Platforms
inner basin
But with Reach came more lore on the S-IIIs, so there’s something.
inner basin
That’s why they took out the Athens and the Malta, that was the breach.
stable schooner
Impressive success though nonetheless.
stoic hamlet
Ehh, I suppose
inner basin
Covenant are sometimes intelligent with their strategies
stoic hamlet
It hinges on the boarding teams
stable schooner
He only had 2 Assault Carriers and the bombs were genius.
stoic hamlet
If even one more team failed that’s it, no advance
stable schooner
Well not every platform had a Spartan so his chances were pretty good there
inner basin
Had they took our Cairo, there would’ve been more ships that would’ve breached the perimeter
Unfortunately for them, Cairo had 117
stoic hamlet
All it would have taken was Marines to successfully repel boarders on one other platform to fail.
Not the best odds in truth.
Not great, but not terrible.
stable schooner
All the Elites have to do is get the bomb on board and activate it.