Wha?
#lore-and-universe
tawny salmon
vague scroll
Since it was written originally in 2001
inner basin
There are only 4 confirmed Spartan-IIIs who died and those are the members of Noble Team
But that is about the overall battle, not in the book.
vague scroll
Bungie didn’t like the novels during their management of the Halo franchise
That was why Reach was made, to tell their own version of it
Since 2011, 343i has done an admirable job filling in the gaps and canon splits
inner basin
The game is still controversial as many highly regard the book
vague scroll
Well, that’s more to do with the fact that Nylund’s writing is still considered among if not the best of the entire franchise
tawny salmon
Then halo 2
inner basin
The book did have a reprint though, which was an effort by 343i who try to stay true to the canon (ty 343)
vague scroll
I seriously got into halo through Reach so it has a special place in my heart
inner basin
Right there with you guys on that one
vague scroll
But I still consider my favorite piece of Halo storytelling is Hunt the Truth
inner basin
My favourite piece is probably GoO
vague scroll
Even if it failed to really capture what Halo 5 was about
gilded mason
Though it still has odd implications like John doing training exercises all while the planet has been under invasion for an entire month, none the wiser.
vague scroll
It’s a really weird hole that may never get fixed
inner basin
Anything that has Spartan-IIIs is what I’m a sucker for.
I liked Battle Born too if I’m going tbh
vague scroll
Even with the reprints of TFOR, I think 343i doesn’t want to or aren’t allowed to do massive changes to the novel to fix all the bigger plot holes
I liked BB more so for the development of Meridian as a setting, the characters and actual story telling wasn’t really a big kick for me
inner basin
Every franchise has plot holes so I guess it’s not too big of a deal. I mean Halo 4 had some plot holes too
vague scroll
I’m still annoyed having found out recently that Meridian has the same mass as our moon
And some how they act as if they live on Meridian like it’s planet earth
It’s a weird oversight
inner basin
Well Meridian is hollow is it not? At least part hollow with all the caves and the Forerunner structures buried beneath the planet
vague scroll
Probably could be fixed though if 343i wants to just go on Waypoint and on Halo 5 and tweak the stats on the location
@inner basin not sure, we know it has a lot of subterranean structures but that’s about it
inner basin
I mean there was that big Forerunner structure that we saw with the Luminary going and scanning out all the tunnels etc. I forget where that was shown but I think it’s related to the Halo 2 terminals
vague scroll
It could be like a world like Naboo in SW and is hollow down the the core but that would be a little strange
Still wouldn’t explain the gravity dichotomy but it could be Forerunner gravity manipulation of some kind so idk
inner basin
I don’t think it’s completely hollow, I think there’s only parts hollow. It could help explain the mass to a degree
vague scroll
It was in the H2A terminals
inner basin
I thought it was the terminals
vague scroll
Well, a hollow world would actually make the mass and gravity weaker
Depends more on the materials that make up a planet
inner basin
The gravity situation I can’t explain but for the mass and why it would be similar to that of our moon is what I was meaning
vague scroll
Well the mass is more inferred through the worlds diameter, I should have clarified Meridian itself is similar in size of our moon
inner basin
It’s a weird dilemma nonetheless
vague scroll
9000 km I think if I remember correctly
inner basin
Isn’t Meridian a moon anyways? If IIRC I think it’s a moon
vague scroll
Yeah, a gas giant moon
You could still have an Earth sized moon around a gas giant and that would be a better explanation
But yeah, it’s something we probably won’t be able to understand till much later
inner basin
Well I guess you can’t keep everything perfect in the lore so it’s probably just an oversight
vague scroll
It’s a big universe with a lot of different authors developing it so definitely
And 343i has been known to give a lot of leeway to Halo authors when writing novels so that’s another factor
Not every one is always on the same page
Star Wars legends have had the same problem
inner basin
Still hope one author decides to pick up the writing for the S-III program or Cat 2 personnel and give us more named Cat 2 personnel as it’s something we kinda need. If not that then at least the Headhunter program as they are also underdeveloped, but that’s just my hopes anyways.
vague scroll
It seems Halo Outpost Discovery will at least cover some S-IIIs so maybe we’ll see that soon
vague scroll
Your S-III senses were right, Spartan-Man
fleet wraith
would love to see more spartan 3s in action
last book was like 2(3?) years ago i think
just lucy and tom though
i think out of all the 3s though olivia has to be my favorite
even though shes a gamma she had a good grip over the instability associated with it in last light
vague scroll
Got to have those Smoothers
fleet wraith
i always remember em as smoothies lol
i was super tired when i first read it years back and read it as smoothies
mark is okay too
went straight up rambo lol
vague scroll
Lol, that’s awesome
fleet wraith
i like to think i have more fun than others when i think about the gammas injecting smoothies into their thighs lol
the best part of last light really was when veta lopis said once they got out of the cave she was going to turn the gammas into child services lol
i had a real good kick out of that
vague scroll
I haven't read Last Light, I probably owe myself that
fleet wraith
Oof idk if its just because im coming from a military stand point but prepare yourself for inspector veta lopis
One of the most infuriating characters in halo for me
Have you read glasslands?
vague scroll
Glasslands and Thursday War
skipped Mortal Dictata though I know the gist of it from second-hand sources
Thursday War is kind of boring, Glasslands was at its best when focusing on those stuck in Trevelyan and probably when exploring all the political maneuverings of the Spartan legacies in ONI and the activities in Kilo-5, I didn't much care for
'Telcam's introduction or 'Mdama's origins
as much as they were important, I found them somewhat boring
fleet wraith
Yeah karen traviss focused a lot less on raw action and more on the actual people involved which i get why people didnt like that
I really liked the kilofive trilogy though and am pretty bummed that it'll probably never see thw light of day again
But yeah last light is good, its a bit slow in the first half but picks up really quick in the second
vague scroll
I love political drama and noir so I can really get through a lot of dry exposition, it really just depends on how its delivered.
inner basin
I see we have something in common EternalCanadian. I too do like my Spartan-III discussions.
feral perch
I have decided that a Prelate would barely be a match for a Spartan-III, let alone a Gamma without smoothers.
versed helm
im a bit confused. are humans remaining forerunners?
gilded mason
Humans are not Forerunners.
versed helm
jovial temple
It’s heavily implied that humans were a product of forerunners in some parts of the lore
versed helm
someone linked me this and said that they were
jovial temple
But I never understood it that well
gilded mason
They eventually went with humans being separate from Forerunners.
versed helm
ah so its been retconned. thats understandable
abstract zealot
It’s not retconned.
versed helm
i was just hearing a mix of different things and from both parties both seemed to have evidence supporting each side
abstract zealot
Forerunners and humans are completely different species. The reason some say they are Forerunner is because the Librarian (who is a Forerunner) implanted a genetic marker within humans to practically assist them (that is simplified). Humans are also the only species that we are aware of that can active Forerunner artifacts like the Halo rings.
Hopefully that clears things up.
versed helm
i see. but what about what was said in contact harvest that i linked? it seems pretty literal.
abstract zealot
What the link is referring to is the few Forerunners that were left behind in the Milky Way are few to none. The easiest example is the Didact.
Sorry if my words don’t make sense. I’m recovery from a head surgery and so my heads hurting a bit lol
carmine sleet
ExPo, I recommend you go get some rest if your head is hurting
abstract zealot
Lol I know. I just woke up not too long again. I use Halo lore to help get my mind off of stuff.
carmine sleet
Ah, I see
versed helm
that makes sense.
but at the time of its release. and halo 3 being told to be the final chapter in the trilogy. with the amount of information that we had then. wouldnt the evidence suggest humans were intended to be leftover forerunner?
i know now that new information has changed that. but im wondering if there was any implication of the contrary at the time of its original release
i heard the terminals suggested otherwise. that humans and forerunner were indeed different species.
but its kind of left me confused
thanks for all your answers so far. its been a great help to me. this has always been something i felt was important to the story but was never quite sure of
carmine sleet
I believe at some point early on in the development of Halo, it was intended that humanity was going to be the Forerunners but I'm glad that they decided against that, would've been a trope that's been overused in sci-fi and raise more questions than answers
abstract zealot
Agreed. I prefer Forerunners being their own species.
stoic peak
343 made a post on instagram calling Linda "Lone Wolf" and a bunch of people got offended saying Nobel 6 is the only "Lone Wolf" and that Nobel 6 is better compared to Linda because he has the "Hyper Lethal" rating.
So i spent most of last night trying to explain to people that Linda has been called "Lone Wolf" since 2001 in the first novel and has been ever since, i also tried to explain that she would be more skilled compared to Nobel 6 and probably better overall and that the "Hyper Lethal" thing was only ever mentioned once in a trailer, but no one would listen and they kept trying to argue Nobel 6 is better and the true "Lone Wolf" and that the games are the true Lore and take priority over the books.
carmine sleet
Lone Wolf is more of a term used to refer to soldiers who work better alone. Sure, Linda is great in Blue Team but she is so good as a sniper that they don't bother deploying her with a spotter, hence why she is considered a lone wolf. Six is similar in that they didn't need anyone backing them up during their time before joining NOBLE Team. Neither of them are the "True Lone Wolf" however
jovial temple
Can master chief be considered a “lone wolf”?
As he stated before he works better alone
From one of the games
gilded mason
I don't recall that.
Though there was one time in Halo 4 that he said he'd be able run to some location faster without having to wait for the other marines or something.
But outside of the 343 Guilty Spark level, it feels like he's usually had comrades with him. Unless I've forgotten some moments.
versed helm
I would say yes and no
carmine sleet
Second to last level of Halo 2, he's solo
gilded mason
He's got Cortana.
carmine sleet
True
stoic peak
In Halo Thr Flood Chief Mentions its been a long time since he has worked with out other SPARTANS and that working with Marines would be diffrent
jovial temple
Maybe I’m misremembering
I thought it was from that scene in infinity where he’s reunited with the spartan 4’s and they offer to tag with but he’s like “I work better alone” but I think I totally misremembered that scene lol
stoic peak
@jovial temple i think you are thinking about the part on The Mammoth when Lasky offers to have Marines tag along but chief pretty much says they will slow him down
jovial temple
Yeah I just re watched. None of the cutscenes does that ever happen. Welp
Hmm maybe
stoic peak
I dont think its a cutscene, you are running around on the Mamoth
vivid dust
it's during gameplay
stoic peak
So was what i said to the people on insta right?
stoic peak
@fleet wraith343 made a post on instagram calling Linda "Lone Wolf" and a bunch of people got offended saying Nobel 6 is the only "Lone Wolf" and that Nobel 6 is better compared to Linda because he has the "Hyper Lethal" rating.
So i spent most of last night trying to explain to people that Linda has been called "Lone Wolf" since 2001 in the first novel and has been ever since, i also tried to explain that she would be more skilled compared to Nobel 6 and probably better overall and that the "Hyper Lethal" thing was only ever mentioned once in a trailer, but no one would listen and they kept trying to argue Nobel 6 is better and the true "Lone Wolf" and that the games are the true Lore and take priority over the books.
fleet wraith
so yeah youre kinda right with saying linda has been called lone wolf since 2001
even the other 2s have said if anyone in the 2s is a lone wolf that she'd be it
but if you look at the stuff shes done(which most of it really is in some form of media) shes usually worked in a team
i think the reason most people argued that shes a lone wolf is peoples misconceptions on how snipers operate and theyre projecting that on how they see linda
Also as for her being better than 6, maybe? I have no doubt she's a better sniper than 6, she's done insane stuff and even the 2's have remarked extremely positively on her abilities.
its kinda really hard to compare the 2
linda is far more fleshed out than 6
we dont really know what 6's skillset and service record is
pseudo ether
the difference being i think is that 90% of the community gets their info from the games only. plus they probably defend N6 more because he's a selfinsert
fleet wraith
yeah i mean thats how most game communities are with extended universes
the majority dont know much beyond what the game tells them
they dont know linda for jack really
Like they don't know Linda has engaged covenant completely concealed from them and her team while hanging upside down on a rope with one leg while headshotting them lol
pseudo ether
i couldn't care less tbh 😄 i have no interest in defending N6 because of a title or anything for that mattter. N6 is a bit of a watered down MC
stoic hamlet
B-312 could be an interesting character but he likely will never be fleshed out.
versed helm
It annoys me that it's certainly a he.
versed helm
I feel a little snubbed as a Halo fan
stoic hamlet
Fem Six best Six
pseudo ether
wait wat, you could pick the gender. watchu talking bout willis?
stoic hamlet
Yah
versed helm
Six was canonically a male now, apparently.
stoic hamlet
Yep
versed helm
Six is always referred to as male when mentioned in outside sources.
pseudo ether
🤷
stoic hamlet
In one source IIRC
And the few sentences literally only need a single word changed from “he” to “they”
That’s it, no change in punctuation, or tense, just a single word
carmine sleet
It's been done before in other franchises
pseudo ether
doesn't make it sound less stupid though 😄
i can get it if they refer to a group of spartans but a single spartan. 🤷
or just use his call sign N6 or something
sonic plover
singular they has been used for a while now
if you’re not familiar with it that’s kinda on you
pseudo ether
🤷 i kind of don't have a problem with noble 6 being a guy.
versed helm
Well, good for you.
inner basin
I always played N6 as a guy because of the self-insert, but I don’t see why you guys have a problem with 6 being a guy? They’re also canonically confirmed dead (unless 343 retcons that if the demand is there).
stable schooner
Its kinda pointless though to be honest it’s not like they played a future role or had a character outside the player.
versed helm
halo reach had the 2nd best campaign, other than 3 imo
had more flavortext and SPARTAN-III’s are cooler than II
solar hatch
yes
inner basin
I agree with you about the Spartan-III point. They definitely are more interesting as IIs, but that doesn’t mean the IIs aren’t cool, I mean we have MC, the rest of Blue Team, we have Grey Team, we have Team Omega, we have Red Team. There is still a selection of Spartan-IIs to pick from (that’s not all of them either).
stable schooner
I don’t see how S-llls are more interesting but Reach Campaign 2nd place is a Nah from me. 5th for me.
inner basin
Well there is so much mystery surrounding the IIIs as we really do not know much about them at this point in time, it’s also an opinion.
versed helm
Well I mean I just have an aggressive preference for female protagonists - not saying N6 should've been confirmed as a woman, but I just would've preferred if it were left open.
I feel like that choice is sort of devalued now. It's just a little harder for me to enjoy playing Halo Reach the way I want, on account of how much of a canon nerd I am.
It'd be a little like if Bioware ever came out and said that Shepard was ever conclusively one gender.
Except, obviously not as impactful.
inner basin
Well H4 Spartan Ops can have a female protagonist if you so desire. They’re are also other places to fill that desire
versed helm
And one of those places was Halo Reach until they did something unnecessary. That's the point.
I accept that this is a mild criticism at best.
It irks me, it doesn't cause me to fault Halo in any meaningful way.
Just something I know could've been handled better.
inner basin
I still don’t see it being that bad but maybe it’s because I prefer to self-insert myself in any faceless character I play as.
versed helm
I've always been more inclined to treat fictional characters as distinct from myself.
Appreciation over immersion.
stable schooner
I won’t lie the Kotor 2 protagonist being confirmed a woman triggered me so I can understand people being disappointed by Noble the player Character being confirmed Male
versed helm
Exactly.
Though I do confess I wouldn't be complaining if N6 was canonically confirmed as a woman. But that's just because the issue wouldn't have come to my attention individually xD
But on the whole, I'm not even entirely sure how I feel about stories which let you choose your character's gender. I'd honestly just prefer it if the writers made the call.
pseudo ether
I don't have a preference for either female or male protagonist. As long as the character is written well. Good writing > gender
inner basin
For me I actually prefer faceless templates as they allow mw to immerse myself in the universe, but then again this issue can be completely avoided if the writers designate a gender to that character you play as.
versed helm
Well, that's my point Klumsy.
I don't really think there's any reason to go to the effort of having a male or female choice if you're confident in the writing itself.
And as I said, I prefer characters to be defined and distinctive, but it's frustrating when it happens after the fact.
pseudo ether
Indeed when there is a choice usually the interactions with the rest of the world are pretty generic look at skyrim or the mass effect games. When there is a predetermined set of parameters the writing is usually better. And it kinda let's you experience being someone else.
For instance how is a woman treated in this world or how is it to be an alien in a world where there is only few of them etc. Seeing the other perspective is nice
fair hazel
They is singlar neutral..
Some stories, where the canon is more set it's like, ok you give the player choice but... there is one canon to be made so..
obsidian thistle
Funny thing, Halo Canon has John find the CEA and Halo 3 and 4 terminals. It has the Rookie find the Audio logs (meaning the the bad police guy dies at the Rookies hand) and Noble Six finds the Data Pads.
That already removes a lotta player choice outta canon 😉
clever fable
Don't tell me they took away my hotrod pink team crimson spartan outta canon too
carmine sleet
So that would mean that during The Covenant, Chief took a detour from the flight to the third tower to go check out what Terminal 5 has, right?
clever fable
today is just the worst 😢
carmine sleet
I would love to learn more about Crimson but at the same time, I feel like if we did, it might potentially ruin them in the perception of certain fans
vivid dust
The Halo 3 terminals varied depending on the difficulty right? Do we know which terminals Chief got access to?
obsidian thistle
Funny thing that Emblem first appeared in that Mega toy. And Halo 5 later confirmed it 100%.
Oh assume that Johns suit archived a lot of stuff and that saves you wondering stuff.
The main stuff is MB communicated with John-117 however.
vivid dust
Yeah I was thinking of that one specifically
that's a Legendary only Terminal isn't it? The other difficulties show something else
I think
carmine sleet
It is, not that I've seen it in person though, may play through Halo 3 on legendary to go see it
obsidian thistle
Halo CEA doesnt have John see the terminals
His suit just records the data.
It wasnt till sometime in 2553 when ONI was able to read the data
The source is the Section 3 ARG
carmine sleet
That makes sense, he wouldn't have had time in some cases to have viewed them all
carmine sleet
And likely the same with H2A as well. Although, with Arbiter, how would that work? His armour lacks allot of features that standard Covenant Harnesses have and I don't recall anything saying it has storage for anything like data
obsidian thistle
We have no idea about the H2A terminals. Bar 117 at one time looked up the Locke ones
carmine sleet
Ah, I see
gilded mason
His armour lacks allot of features that standard Covenant Harnesses have and I don't recall anything saying it has storage for anything like data
Wasn't the only outright stated thing it didn't have going for it in regards to newer armor the camo time?
vivid dust
In Halo 4 John sees the Terminals?
carmine sleet
His suit recorded the data, which was then seen at a later date by ONI
vivid dust
neat
polar olive
I got a question was Master Chief on the fight to save Reach or was he in another planet doing another mission?
gilded mason
He was on Reach during the fall of Reach, yes.
polar olive
Oh I see 
I was not sure since he didn't show up in the game, Thank you for the help
fair hazel
You should read the fall of reach
feral perch
^^^^^^
gilded mason
Indeed
feral perch
every Halo fan should
polar olive
I'm going too start reading it this weekend, I'm so excited about it
feral perch
cool
versed helm
@polar olive there was an easter egg of him in cryo aboard the pillar o’ autumn in reach
just gotta move ur joystick during the cutscene
polar olive
I dont have my xbox anymore but i remember it 😥
Hope they keep it when the pc version releases
carmine sleet
They're not going to remove Easter Eggs like that
versed helm
They probably should in the case of that one
It makes things a little overcomplicated
carmine sleet
The only time 343i changed Easter Eggs in a game that was added into MCC was when they changed the posters in ODST that made reference to Destiny
versed helm
Actually hold on nvm it doesn't overcomplicate things
There's no way it could be canon cuz Chief's not in the right armour
I can't believe I forgot that
Take that stupid Bungie easter egg
humble yacht
I don't think easter eggs are canon as a rule of thumb
versed helm
That is true
humble yacht
You think Fireteam Osiris canonically stopped hunting Blue Team on Meridian for a round of soccer?
humble yacht
i can't think of any Halo easter egg that would fit into canon
even the monkey people in H3
pseudo ether
we're all monkeys though
modest marsh
Tbh I could buy the giant soccer ball in New Mombasa
inner basin
What about the grunt easter eggs in CE (on The Maw), in Halo 2 (can’t remember which level but it’s an Arby one), and in Halo 3 (on Halo during the Warthog Run).
humble yacht
Those would have required Chief to get out of the warthog during a time-sensitive escape to go find a lone grunt and listen to his final thoughts
does that sound very Chief?
gilded mason
Yes
humble yacht
Easter eggs only have significance to the player. To the narrative they don't add anything; sometimes they can even break the narrative if one tries to consider them canon
left depot
Yeah but they taste great
I did also come here with a question. What exactly do the standard neural implants... Do? Are they just tracking beacons, or do they enhance people in some way? Open up utilities?
humble yacht
they can be used for a myriad of reasons
at the most basic level, neural implants serve as a form of identification and as a tracking mechanism
more advanced implants can serve greater purposes, like allowing humans to operate technology more efficiently (i.e. spartans and their armor)
Because neural implants are surgically implanted, they're a much more secure form of information storage for VIPs than badges or cards
like how the Autumn's command codes were on Keyes' implant
left depot
Just seems odd to have a neural implant just for tracking. A chip in the wrist or somewhere less intrusive would do the job, so I wondered if they had some higher purpose as standard.
VIP thing makes a lot of sense, thanks
modest marsh
They presumably can monitor brain signals, such as to report vital signs
left depot
Yeah, you'd think so, otherwise it's just an overpriced and ridiculously intrusive GPS
modest marsh
Well
The intrusiveness might be intentional as well
Harder for you to go rogue when you’re chipped in a delicate place
vague scroll
by 2558, surgically implanting a neural implant is a fairly easy out-patient procedure
so just about any civilian can have them
also given how much Earth has developed into an Orwellian state, with the existence of the Grid, if you don't have a neural implant or whatever official citizen registering tool, you're completely blocked out from using basic utilities.
can't own a car, can't go to school, hold a job, get medical care, buy groceries, etc.
left depot
Didn't know any of that about earth
versed helm
Would you rather be infected by the flood or be glassed?
vague scroll
Glassed easy
versed helm
Same
I ain't gonna be no distorted zombie anytime soon
Funny how the forerunners couldn't handle the flood, while the humans and covenant were just fine
vague scroll
We were lucky
gilded mason
The UNSC and Covenant only had to really deal with an outbreak from Delta Halo
vague scroll
Small outbreak
gilded mason
Nope
vague scroll
Forerunner was the entire galaxy
versed helm
The forerunners suffered a huge outbreak
vague scroll
Unfathomably
versed helm
But the flood is basically the precursors, right?
gilded mason
Yeah.
versed helm
So did they come for revenge as the flood after the forerunners wiped them out?
humble yacht
pretty much
gilded mason
So they say
versed helm
It makes sense if it is
gilded mason
And they want everyone else to feel their misery, or something
vague scroll
The Precursors are poorly understood
versed helm
They don't even have a true physical form
They say their just a sort of consciousness
vague scroll
Best way to describe them is more like “immortal shapeshifters”
vague scroll
Yes
prime cargo
basically
versed helm
Then did the forerunners wipe them out
versed helm
Oh wait they came back as the flood
prime cargo
i mean
its complicated
but pretty much
by activating the rings
they came back tho obvs and tried to do the same thing again
vague scroll
They could bend the laws of the universe with their minds
Aka called neural physics
versed helm
Imagine if they actually fought back against the forerunners
vague scroll
There is a conspiracy that the Precursors let themselves die
Sorry Precursors
My bad
vague scroll
That the Precursors literally let the Forerunners kill them
vague scroll
It doesn’t make sense for them to want to take revenge as the Flood however if that was all part of the plan
versed helm
Yet the forerunners would fight there creators
vague scroll
It’s why we don’t understand the Precursors or the Flood
What they truly are or what they want is really unknown
versed helm
True
Most people think the flood is just some intergalactic biologic parasite
But it originates from an intelligence that transcends the laws of the universe
Lol I'm a nerd
rigid owl
after reading the books I totally agree with you, @Epicweeb149 :)
the timeless stuff wasn't it?
versed helm
The timeless one?
versed helm
He's a precursor/flood hybrid or something
versed helm
Same
Halo lore is so diverse and deep
There's so many different parts to it
That's why the books exist
plucky gulch
@versed helm True true. I mark my calender for the books
jovial temple
I just wrote down all the books I could find and I already bought like 10 but there are an estimating 30 still on my list
Didn’t know there was this many lol
Does it explore the precursors in the forerunner saga?
gilded mason
A bit, from what Forerunners once knew of them, and the bit that the Flood talk about.
inner basin
A lot of the stuff we know on the Precursors is in the Forerunner trilogy.
jovial temple
That’ll be my next read
after I get finished with these ten books first
I got new blood, bad blood, the fall of reach, contact harvest, first strike, the flood, smoke and shadows, ghosts of onyx, shadow of intent, and saints testimony
“The fall of reach” and “fall of reach” are two separate books right?
gilded mason
There's only one Fall of Reach book, though there is a comic adaption and an animated series adaption (that does not include the actual fall of Reach.)
I got new blood, bad blood, the fall of reach, contact harvest, first strike, the flood, smoke and shadows, ghosts of onyx, shadow of intent, and saints testimony
Also get Broken Circle and Last Light if you haven't already.
stoic peak
So with Cryo Sleep you are meant to be naked because of how cold your body gets, but in HW2 and some other media we see people fully dressed.
So in HW2 when everyone comes out of Cryo should i assume they are actually naked?
carmine sleet
The reason why most visual media doesn't show characters as naked during scenes where they get in and out of cryo pods is due to how it would force the rating to go up if they showed it like that
stoic peak
@carmine sleet oh yeah i get that, but i guess they could show them wearing some type of special Under Wear designed for Cryp Sleep.
But in HW2 would they all have been naked ?
carmine sleet
Maybe but I don't really see that as something that's important to know about
stoic peak
@carmine sleet yeah its just one of them things that kinda annoy me lol.
versed helm
Are you saying space diapers are unimportant?
carmine sleet
You don't need to tag me every time
stoic peak
Didnt notice i was lol
jovial temple
what about space diapers?
trail willow
I mean cryo sleep isn’t even possible everyone would die cause the water in you would freeze
modest marsh
They inject a substance into the body that prevents the water from completely freezing
humble yacht
Yeah, we already have ways to prevent ice crystal formation in cells in modern day cryonics
modest marsh
Halo also has nanobot wizardry so there’s that
humble yacht
By the 26th century I’m sure freezing tech has been expanded and is safe and easy
feral perch
yeah, it had better be a better solution than replacing blood with antifreeze
inner basin
I’m pretty sure some people have tried to freeze themselves, but with our current technology we can’t bring them back and they are dead
jovial temple
Walt Disney did this
inner basin
I think I read it somewhere.
humble yacht
Modern cryonics don’t let you freeze live people
You have to be clinically dead before getting frozen
modest marsh
For one, it’s intrinsically harmful to suppress someone’s vitals to that extent and therefore violates the Hippocratic oath
obsidian thistle
Hmm I just asked this to a science friend of mine. They dont recommend it atm. XD
Science isnt far enough atm
which is obvious tbh
humble yacht
Big difference between freezing a collection of cells or an organ and freezing an entire organism
vague scroll
Being frozen alive is already being clinically dead, what we’re starting to see also as technology and science has progressed is that death isn’t inherently definite
For example, water camels that go into states of extended hibernation that might as well be clinically dead when water dries out
humble yacht
The difference is that if you’re alive when being cryonically preserved, the process kills you
Resuscitation is not possible at this time
And while science is discovering more states of suspended animation, death is still death
vague scroll
The real big issue is resuscitation as you pointed out
How do we retain brain matter without destroying what makes us who we are
Our gray matter - memories, processing power, conscience, mental health, personality, etc.
versed helm
Also it’s 500 years in the future
versed helm
I mean, it's probably got to do with cytoprethaline and the process by which they actually freeze us. Which is I guess where the science fiction comes in.
It's handwavium but it's decent handwavium because we have rules
agile lotus
What are all the capabilities of the Spartan II Mjolnir suit, both in combat and for extra long deployments?
versed helm
Well for the most part you'll probably have to extrapolate
Halo has a way of not being quite as detail orientated as we'd like
So y'know
Here's a good place for you to start
inner basin
I read through that Halopedia page. Feel bad for you CIA but surely you could get/got others to help? Also about the freezing yourself thing, I swear I heard that someone did freeze themselves and said they want to be woke up in the future, as they didn’t like this generation. I don’t know if they actually did freeze themselves, but they said they would, and they did seem to have the money to get themselves frozen. The thing I don’t get is that they would be clinically dead and would unable to be resuscitated. Maybe in the future they’ll be found and we would have the technology to bring them back after them having froze themselves, if they did actually do it. It kinda reminds me of what happened at the start of the movie Jason X (it’s based on Jason Voorhees from Friday the 13th).
storm flume
@agile lotus An hour late but this guy does very decent breakdowns on tech in Halo, starting with MJOLNIR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnwJMVYZr_M&list=PLLasqfX0uirNW-pBzpuK_No377zpaO6hJ&index=2&t=0s
versed helm
Man that is sick
versed helm
Something really neat I just noted about the Mark IV pauldrons in Halo Wars' cutscenes is that they actually shift and move in interesting ways so as not to inhibit movement
Like when Jerome reaches for his shotgun in monsters
You can see how it moves forwards to allow him access behind his back
I feel that's a more realistic and compelling solution to the pauldrons inhibiting movement than the random disappearing we see in the Infinite trailer
Though obviously the architecture of this Mark IV model and the GEN 3 model from Infinite aren't the same to animate, it's just cool to see little details like that which emphasize the raw functionality and tech of these suits.
Holy Christ tho
Those most detailed videos are something else
I'm actually astounded
Surely some of it's headcanon, though - like, really good headcanon, but it's far too specific for anything that Bungie or 343 have put out
storm flume
Yeah, I can't even tell what among it is confirmed canon and what is speculative
Because it all fits so perfectly
He sounds like he has a physics background
A deep understanding of how real life works would transition pretty well into figuring out how sci-fi stuff could work, I imagine
obsidian thistle
Yea... tbh thats my biggest critism of his vids. He adds headcanon in and while they are interesting they do deviate from actual canon a lot of the time.
tiny yarrow
Hey I have a question what purpose to garages and airpads and barracks serve in Halo Wars 2? If you watch the core building of a base after you start training a unit, a pelican drops off troops (barracks), delivers a box (Garage), or the unit drops in from the sky(airpad/condor). I know game balancing is a factor but what do they do if they unit comes directly from the Spirit of Fire?
obsidian thistle
They make the actual equipment? And so on. I'd need to check over stuff again however
storm flume
Planetside maintenence and repair, my guess
tiny yarrow
Ok thanks CIA
fair hazel
I really really like that aspect of the unsc tech
Deploy fire bases. Easy deployment. Easy logistics. It’s just so cool.
I’m sitting in this huge long park. The thought that the unexpected could just come in an open space like this. Then quickly set up a base and fortified area is woah
inner basin
I wish we get to see bases being set up in Infinite. Although they’ll be different from the bases set up on the Ark by the SoF, it’d be cool for Infinity to do that. It would kinda be like Alpha Base that we saw on Installation-04 but in a more efficient manner (speculatively).
strong sage
Isnt that showing how mobile unsc are like they can deploy based and set up fort anywhere and anytime? Btw speaking of which do unsc still retain those firebases during post war conflicts or it was only during human covenant war only?
And also firebases can only deployed by phoenix class ships or it can be any ships?
tardy zodiac
are U.N.S.C Infinity and Battlegroup Dakota keep running from Cortana's Guardians?
fair hazel
We don’t know what other ships escaped.
I don’t think all ships can deploy fire base. But carriers and so on. Or specialized ships
And I think there may be newer firebase models and so on
inner basin
@strong sage I’d imagine it would he more than just the Phoenix-Class ships. Why would they create deployable firebases for just one ship class, especially if it’s one of the older ships in the Navy.
warped nimbus
ded
carmine sleet
Didn't the Infinity get damaged badly by a glassing beam during Esclation?
inner basin
Well due to the UNSC’s greater knowledge on Covenant weaponry (post-war), I doubt they would avoid flying above or below the Covenant glassing beam.
tardy zodiac
Infinity would get some damage, But infinity could eliminate Covi Energy Projector base
But hood did not.
modest marsh
What?
tardy zodiac
Because Hood was First Mate of James Cutter, Cpt of Spirit of Fire.
modest marsh
That happened independently of his personal history or decisions
carmine sleet
It was a surprise attack from a station they did not know had such weaponry if I recall correctly, not much Hood could've done to move the Infinity out the way when he didn't know it was there
modest marsh
He blamed himself for it but that was irrational
tardy zodiac
There was a son of james cutter
So Hood did not have any reaction to the enemy fire.
modest marsh
????
tardy zodiac
He didn't want to hurt his old boss's son
inner basin
It wasn’t Hoods fault. He just didn’t collect the log buoy and Cutter did have a son (both a legitimate and illegitimate)
carmine sleet
That's not how it played out at all, Racon
tardy zodiac
Then
Infinity with no shield VS covi super energy projector base
But
Infinity knew that there was covi super energy projector base
Who wins?
inner basin
Why would the Infinity not have shields in the first place?
tardy zodiac
Let's make up the story
Let's think infinity's shield was disabled because of some idiot scientist
modest marsh
We already know the Infinity could withstand multiple pulses, however it’s possible they were deliberately targeted at non-vital structures
carmine sleet
Unless there's a good reason to limit the Infinity in a vs situation, there's no point taking away the shields
Also, if it was because of some "idiot scientist" that they had no shields, I don't think they'd be on the Infinity in the first place
tardy zodiac
Covi won't have any chance to stand if Infinity got her shield XD
inner basin
Well one charge of it’s MAC guns and Infinity wins
modest marsh
With that said, the Infinity is a warship with countless dedicated defense systems in place including multiple broadside MACs
tardy zodiac
So
modest marsh
Any angle of attack and it shoots the station before it can attack infinity
tardy zodiac
Reason that infinity was disabled is
Reason that infinity was disabled is because the covi super energy projector base attacked it secretly?
modest marsh
More or less, yes
inner basin
Well they probably still would’ve maintained range and sent a Spartan boarding team
carmine sleet
With the Infinity, attacking it head on would be suicide, you have to do something to catch them by surprise and take out key systems before they have a chance to react
modest marsh
Infinity outguns, out ranges, and can fire quicker than a station which isn’t designed for direct combat
tardy zodiac
Battlegroup Dakota VS Covenant Sangheili's Main Fleet
inner basin
Why are you asking all these random questions? Is there any point to them?
inner basin
A game?
tardy zodiac
Halo ship to ship game
Quality sucks, But it'd be enough for Halo fans
kind of Fan-made game
inner basin
You can’t make a game based on Halo without having the license by MS to do so (I believe)
tardy zodiac
It's ok if it is not released on public
inner basin
Is it not still unlawful?
tardy zodiac
Nvm then
@modest marsh @carmine sleet lol infinity wins so easily
It's so powerful..
modest marsh
I mean
I would think a frigate could take the station for the same reasons
Being a dedicated warship offers a lot of advantages in combat not afforded to something never designed to engage in the frontlines
tardy zodiac
kk
inner basin
The Covenant Energy Projector would be similar to the ODPs, except UNSC ships can outrange the Energy Projector whereas the Covenant can’t fight the ODPs even if they are out of range. Also if Covenant ships get hit by one of the ODPs they’ll be damaged pretty badly whereas UNSC ships can dodge the Energy Projector
carmine sleet
@inner basin So long as the game isn't monetised or using assets straight from an already released Halo game and falls within the guidelines Microsoft have, fan-made games are fine. So I could, for example, make a game based off of moving resources between different systems for the UNSC if I wanted to, so long as the assets used were my own
inner basin
Ah okay I gotcha. I’ve just never seen a fan-made Halo game that hasn’t been taken down. I’ll not bring those games up however, and I just assumed it form the onward that it was any game with the Halo name attached to it.
stoic hamlet
Sins of the Prompts, OPTRE, are two examples.
modest marsh
SPV3
gilded mason
The Covenant Energy Projector would be similar to the ODPs, except UNSC ships can outrange the Energy Projector whereas the Covenant can’t fight the ODPs even if they are out of range. Also if Covenant ships get hit by one of the ODPs they’ll be damaged pretty badly whereas UNSC ships can dodge the Energy Projector
Hm? Ain't energy projectors faster than SMACs? And as we already know, one projector shot can cripple the Infinity. I can't find a MAC gun's effective range anywhere, though.
Here's a couple paragraphs from Fall of Reach talking about an energy projector vs an SMAC as well.
“Christ,” Ensign Lovell whispered.
A salvo of orbital gun rounds fired at this new target . . . but it was too far away.```
dreamy terrace
It took some pretty crazy manuevers from Cortana for the Pillar of Autumn to avoid a similiar fate too. With the Infinity you have a far larger and heavier ship to steer; I doubt you'd get away with such manuevers as easily.
warped nimbus
Pretty sure a MAC has no "Effective range" it's a space gun
fair hazel
Infinity can take on a few shots from an energy projector
gilded mason
Infinity can take on a few shots from an energy projector
All that matters is if it gets crippled by one.
fair hazel
Theee cripples it but doesn’t destroy it
dreamy terrace
Total destruction of an asset is basically irrelevant.
gilded mason
Yeah
dreamy terrace
Reducing its effectieness to zero is far more important.
versed helm
A MACs maximum effective range is the range at which it becomes too easy for the target to avoid the projectile
Lasers don't really have that problem until they start to defocus
fair hazel
Mac range depends on the target too
versed helm
Yeah, absolutely.
gilded mason
Yup, and projectors are about 300,000 km/s, while SMACs are 12,000 km/s, according to Halopedia
fair hazel
Speed of causality
versed helm
But I think it's a fair bet that for most military vessels it'll be fairly uniform since I imagine they all have quite potent manoeuvring speed.
Be it, y'know, gravitational impulse or thrusters or whatever.
fair hazel
30gs of accélération unsc
versed helm
Speaking of, are there identifiable manoeuvring thrusters on UNSC ships or are we to assume they orientate themselves some other way?
They must be quite compact
fair hazel
There are many Erving thrusters
The main push comes from the fusion drive engines
Many manhcwrinf thrusters
versed helm
I mean, that's obvious enough - the big thrusters are to achieve travel velocities
But y'know, looking at say the H2A marathon
It's hard to see where those manoeuvring thrusters might be
fair hazel
Depends on the render
versed helm
Anyway, the assumption I was working my way up to was either that a) the thrusters might be concealed beneath armoured panelling until needed or b) manoeuvring is actually achieved by gravitational impulse in a similar capacity to how frigates float or a pelican's lift assist functions.
fair hazel
A. But they’re not that concealed I think
Covenant systems using gravitic based navigation allow for more flexibility
The unsc indinity should have that capability
As with any other potential ubac ships which employ the use of répulsor engines rather than strictly fusion drives
versed helm
The reason why I'm suggesting the gravitic impulse thing is that Halo lore has recently been pretty dead-set on affirming that the UNSC's actually got a lot more of a handle on grav tech than we thought.
fair hazel
The technology has bee. Wide spread enough to be employed in grab ball
versed helm
See Battle Born's gravitational car suspension.
versed helm
Right, or the lift assist on pelicans.
I think it's probably a fair guess that the only reason they don't use it for firearms is because chemical-based propellant or magnetics are logistically more efficient.
fair hazel
And energy efficient
Like take the rail gun. One of the reasons it’s efficient. The modern one. Is because if I recall correctly when you load in the round. It also has its own energy source you load in.
versed helm
But so far, at minimum we've identified that the UNSC has inertial compensation (which is nearly universal) and anti-grav (which has a weird rationale for use). Maybe lift assist and frigate floating could also take the form more of mass reduction than it does actual antigrav too.
I wonder if those are distinct technologies.
fair hazel
Likely anti gravity.
versed helm
Anyway, I'm keeping an open mind towards the prospect of gravitational manouvering until we start getting more explicit mention or visual ID of manouvering thrusters (I think TFoR brought them up but TFoR can be a little divorced from visual canon sometimes).
I think maybe a ship has an inertial compensation field generator which isolates a zone from external gravitational impulses, some kind of internal environmental gravitic control system, and then some kind of anti-grav manouvering unit which doesn't directly exert force in the same way an anti-grav plate does but instead generates a "manouvering field".
Obviously we can't be too concerned with the science here since we don't even fully understand gravity substantively in real life rn
But I think that's a good array of handwavium that could be given rules.
modest marsh
TFoR seemed pretty leaned into the idea artificial gravity was still highly experimental as late as 2552
versed helm
Contact Harvest sort of destroys that idea though
modest marsh
Not surprising
I don’t think we’ve seen ships that don’t have active gravity controls since then
In any media, regardless of timeframe
versed helm
The logical conclusion is that 100% robust grav control tech is just an accepted part of Halo's universe
I think it'd certainly need to be, given the way their ships actually function. They're fast enough to be practical.
modest marsh
Y’all ever wonder what the environmental controls are set to in Covenant ships?
Or really any of their naval installations
versed helm
Probably optimised for elites.
modest marsh
See, you’d think right?
But that sounds potentially dangerous for other crew members
And what about Prophets?
versed helm
Well it's sort of accepted in Halo that all oxygen breathers evolved in generally very similar conditions.
gilded mason
Poor Unggoy
modest marsh
I guess they may have their own localized gravitic fields
versed helm
More likely it's attuned to whoever onboard is the most important
And everyone else has to either be grunts
Or mildly uncomfortable
But maybe I'm not giving the Covenant enough credit so who knows
modest marsh
That’s what troubles me about Brute vessels
strong sage
Mammoth and Elephants both of these vehicles have the same role right? Like being a command base vehicle or some sort
modest marsh
Theoretically their optimized environment is potentially fatal to lesser species, including elites
versed helm
Mammoths also have the benefit of enormous effing guns
gilded mason
But maybe I'm not giving the Covenant enough credit so who knows
Tends to happen. 😏
versed helm
They're like ultra heavy artillery too
modest marsh
Perhaps individual crew quarters are optimized on a species basis?
versed helm
^
strong sage
Wait are those artillery thingy on mammoths the same like the collossus’s railgun?
versed helm
Heavier.
versed helm
It's a miniaturized MAC that fires 35cm projectiles
strong sage
Ahhhh
modest marsh
The MAC on the Mammoth is capable of destroying a Forerunner particle cannon spanning a few hundred meters across
Which doesn’t sound right
But
The level doesn’t lie
gilded mason
I thought that was kinda silly as well, but I'm no physicist.
strong sage
So that means Mammoth can have a role of an Anti capital ships i assume?
modest marsh
No
strong sage
Owh i see
modest marsh
Not unless they’re within atmosphere anyway
versed helm
Also btw apparently the UNSC definition of a rail gun is "a weapon with sort of rail like appendages which exist for the purpose of generating energy coils of some kind which then propel the projectile".
So I'd be surprised if the colossus railgun is also actually a railgun.
modest marsh
https://streamable.com/jqkof I doubt 343 broke out their calculators for this one
versed helm
Alternately, the ARC-railgun actually is a railgun and the "coils" are some kind of recoil reduction tech, maybe gravitic in nature, but that seems silly.
strong sage
I really like the mammoth idk why maybe its coz i having thing for big gigantic vehicles lol
versed helm
And btw, when in doubt - 35cm projectile.
Could be packed with some very heavy ordnance.
strong sage
Isn’t 35cm a bit too small?
versed helm
It's larger than a ruler's length
modest marsh
35cm accelerated to a few dozen kilometers per second outta make some hurt happen
versed helm
Also can I just point out that the UNSC has nuclear warheads smaller in diameter than 35cm
strong sage
I guess that explains why stanchion’s rounds if they miss it is still considered lethal
Even thou their rounds are small
modest marsh
Well
They sort of
“Explode” for some reason
Not like, a literal munition detonates
They just conveniently disperse most or all of its kinetic energy once it hits an intended target
strong sage
Im amazed how unsc can create nukes at size of football balls lol
Ooooo i see
But they stopped using stanchions right?
modest marsh
Stopped manufacturing them
versed helm
Sorry, stanchion rounds don't explode
If that's what we're saying here
Anyone remember Contact Harvest?
versed helm
Johnson was explicitly concerned of the rounds overpenetrating
It's why he didn't take out the bomber
strong sage
God dayyum rail guns lol
versed helm
Every time he fires the thing
The book describes how it followed through the target and embeds somewhere
Also there's a difference between railguns and coilguns that's kinda important
MACs and stanchions and gauss cannons are coilguns
Railguns work differently
modest marsh
Yes, it decelerated from 15km/s to 0 right after going through a guy by ripping him to shreds
strong sage
Wait since it is a powerfull rifle should the recoil somehow can injured or break johnson’s arm/shoulder? Unless they have a way to mitigate that
versed helm
That's the crafty thing about coilguns
Because they use coils to incrementally accelerate the projectile
strong sage
Ahhh sorry i thought both r the same
versed helm
The recoil impulse is dispersed
modest marsh
It embedded into the parking lot when realistically the 5mm penetrator should have just kept going like it did before
It widened outward like a meteor impact
versed helm
I'll have to re-read the portion in question then
But your interpretation is striking me as a little odd
Like, what's the functional difference between "embedded in the parking lot"
And "went through the parking lot and into the ground even deeper"
The ground beneath the parking lot is still technically the parking lot
modest marsh
Nah hold on
The Stanchion’s slug exited the barrel with a muffled crack and punched through two of the office building’s steel-reinforced, polycrete floors with no adverse effect on its trajectory. Traveling at fifteen thousand meters per second, the round whistled over the highway and hit the target at the apex of his sternum. The man flew to pieces as the round buried itself in a rooster tail of pulverized asphalt.
modest marsh
Why did it not just put a tiny hole in him and keep going
versed helm
Well it did keep going
I guess Staten was just trying to emphasize how thoroughly the man was killed
modest marsh
It already penetrated two steel reinforced walls that did nothing to affect its trajectory
versed helm
And the man didn't either
It's the reaction of the man's body that's in question here
You think he shouldn't have exploded
modest marsh
I mean, the text also implies the round had stopped inside the parking lot after kicking up a wide area of asphalt
Which suggests it tumbled or decelerated suddenly somehow
versed helm
Well potentially after going through several walls and a man it had decelerated enough
And do extremely fast projectiles really leave such neat impacts?
I thought that even if the transmission of energy to the target was relatively inefficient
modest marsh
The two walls are stated to have unaffected its trajectory
versed helm
At certain speeds it could still be enough to mangle it
The trajectory never gets altered the entire time
Look, we're conceptualizing it differently here
What I'm saying is that either the round is travelling so fast that its effect on what it penetrates is severe and it still doesn't decelerate
Or the walls did change the velocity but not meaningfully enough to affect its functional trajectory, only its effect on its target
Though it's worth noting that it's never said that it neatly punched through the building
Just that it went through it
So the building may have been just as devastated as the man
modest marsh
You’d think Staten would’ve described that then
versed helm
I think you, my friend, are suffering from a severe case of paralysis through analysis
modest marsh
This isn’t the first time the Stanchion has basically stopped in its tracks after penetrating its target
Its first depiction in the Graphic Novel for instance
versed helm
"Stopped in its tracks" is hyperbolic language in this instance
It went through the man, continued on its path, and buried some way into the asphalt
Possibly even ending up below it
modest marsh
On the scale we’re talking about, a Mach 40 projectile, if it stopped 50 meters away from hitting a guy then there’s some weirdness going on there
versed helm
"Buried itself in a rooster tail of pulverized asphalt"
Nothing in that really implies, I don't think, that it only penetrated shallowly
It could've gone some distance through the asphalt before it actually stopped
modest marsh
It could, but again, look at the other examples it’s been used
I’m leaning against it and the intent to me suggests it stopped in the parking lot
As you said, Johnson was not too keen on the over penetration concern
I don’t think he’d want to risk shooting through a building in a populated area if the round wasn’t able to contain itself reliably
versed helm
Was he not implicitly aware that the building was vacant?
modest marsh
But you’re saying it went through the building
versed helm
Yes
And that nobody was in the building
So that wasn't a concern for him
Stopping the terrorist was
So between him and the terrorist he has a vacant building and on the other side of the terrorist is the ground
No risk
modest marsh
If it’s a populated area and the round goes through the building, there is inherent risk
versed helm
Your assumption is that he didn't know the building was vacant for sure
But he was effectively aiming his weapon via drone
modest marsh
Forget the building
Don’t even think about the building anymore
What happens if the round keeps going
versed helm
It buries itself in the ground
Like it did
Do you know what asphalt is and what it's used for?
He was firing from a raised position
Looking down at the target
It passed through the target, and buried in the asphalt floor of the parking lot
Below which was the earth
modest marsh
I may be remembering the scene differently
versed helm
We've probably visualized it differently
modest marsh
I imagined it as a multitiered complex
Because he’s shooting over a highway
Through another building
versed helm
Gimme some time to type a quote
versed helm
I have a physical copy
Okay then!
Read backwards a bit
The last paragraph
Starting with "Avery refocused"
modest marsh
What about it?
versed helm
Nothing about "parking lot" in that describes it as a multi-tiered complex
And whatever tech he's using to track the shot trajectory indicated to him that the shot would be harmless
That same tech later on indicates to him that the shot would not be, which is why he was concerned
modest marsh
Loot, who was he at risk of shooting?
versed helm
The boy that the bomber was holding
modest marsh
A kid right next to the bomber right?
Exactly
It would be farfetched to assume this same technology could predict whether someone would be hit a block away or something
versed helm
Magg, at this point your argument hinges on "Avery had no way of knowing that the building he fired through was vacant", and that "It's never explicitly stated that the parking lot isn't a multi-tiered building". First point - the fact that he was prepared to fire through the building indicates that he did. Second point - you're assuming something which the text doesn't indicate and speaking as if that assumption ruins the realism of the scene.
Like I said, paralysis through analysis. I do not accept these critiques.
Were there any other instances you wish to discuss?
modest marsh
You’re misrepresenting my side of the discussion
I said multiple times to ignore the building itself
You’re right that nothing within the text suggests it was a stacked parking garage, that was an assumption on my part due to the verticality of the scene and how it was described and realized within my head
If Avery fired at a shallow angle, thus causing the asphalt to rooster tail (which would require it to be somewhat parallel to the ground) it seems conceivable that whatever structure the target was inside of would be penetrated and pose risk to bystanders if the round failed to stop
versed helm
Didn't he leave the structure?
He held the door open for a bunch of kids to go inside and walked into the car park
Which is where he died
Or was on his way there at least.
modest marsh
Parking lot counts as a structure
versed helm
Maybe it's just because I live rurally in Australia but to me a parking lot is just a flat, cleared bit of paved-over ground that's conveniently placed near a place where the occupants of those cars would want to go
It's basically a field
With an asphalt ground
modest marsh
Well it’s also right next to a highway
I pictured dense cityscape
An open, ground level parking lot is uncommon
Not impossible mind you, but how many parking lots do you see in halo?
versed helm
Sometimes cities can be less dense. Open ground level parking isn't entirely uncommon in some larger towns I know.
There's even a few areas I can think of in Brisbane, my state capital.
At least one of them outside a McDonalds
Since it's a colony, the city might not be as dense as you're thinking
modest marsh
Anyway, can you at least agree that perhaps the more flowery descriptions of what the Stanchion does to a person’s body is a tad exotic?
modest marsh
versed helm
I actually imagined the setting as a little more of a built-up rural town because they're described as travelling for an hour over "volcanic plain" to get there
And petrified chunks of forest
modest marsh
What good is bombings in rural areas though
versed helm
They landed in an outskirts area and they had to hurdle a chain link fence xD
They landed on "frost covered pumice"
carmine sleet
Knock out a potential source of food maybe? If a colonies' main source of food is lost, then they'd have to have food imported from elsewhere
Or just supplies in general
modest marsh
More effective ways to do that than an IED in some farmer’s field
versed helm
Well don't forget they were there to take out a bomb shop
Lemme read up to the bit where they chase after the bombers
I think they may have been trying to transport the explosives, actually
And the Marines were tracking them down?
"Autosynthesizers" are a thing
Cool
Wait so it seems like what happened
Was that the Marines rocket up, took out the bomb shop, were like "where the heck are the bombs!"
The innie dude's like "in the tires" so they figure out a new way to get their drones to detect the bomb mixture from the tyres
Which then leads them to immediately take out one dude who's covered in the bomb mixture
versed helm
Well, 26th century computers and scanning tech I guess
So they go to grab the chick as well
And then she grabs a hostage
And the kid's dad panics and she explodes the restaurant
So I guess they were going to explode the restaurant?
modest marsh
I was thinking more so they had some plan involving more delicate targets than killing civilians
versed helm
No the tires were still on the truck that the innies were driving in
modest marsh
A truck makes a good explosive-delivery system
versed helm
It seems to me that they didn't know what the innies' plan was
But decided that they needed to take them out of the picture as quickly as possible
And by "they" I man the supervising officers
The ones the Marines are on comms with
They even consider blowing up the hauler in the parking lot with lancet micro missiles
Which can apparently gut a tank
Just to dab on jackhammers I guess
Whatever, I guess there's a logical order of events here
Reading this has re-iterated to me that Staten is an awesome writer, though. A lot of very fun sentences to read here.
stable schooner
@versed helm hey what’s your opinion on the H2A ODSTs vs Classic?
versed helm
I don't reckon they're as different as people say tbh
The H2A ODSTs have a more defined look that eliminates the similarities with the regular Marines while keeping the basic themes of the H2 design.
But it's got an almost identical layout and very similar shapes
stable schooner
Agreed their more faithful then the Marines are to Classic
The ODSTs in Classic kinda look weird though I can’t tell what armor they where compared to Anniversary
versed helm
Absolutely. Though I will say this - the one big similarity between H2A Marines and H2 Classic Marines is that both have a design of torso protection which doesn't feature an underlying vest.
Otherwise yeah, the shapes couldn't be more different.
stable schooner
I’d like to see some hand protection on the ODSTs but Classic didn’t have it neither. People forget ODSTs got a major redesign in 3.
Though H2A made them silver
versed helm
I think the design was optimised, considering the role of ODSTs
vivid dust
I don't think we've gotten a single bad ODST design so far
gilded mason
People forget ODSTs got a major redesign in 3.
Though H2A/H2 is definitely my favorite variant at the moment, looks-wise.
versed helm
I like the mantra that "UNSC soldiers wear body armour in case they get shot, ODSTs wear battle armour because they expect to be shot" .
vivid dust
except maybe the ODST helmet in Halo 4 lol this one is weird
versed helm
Halo 3 ODSTs are fully covered with heavy plating. It's sick.
stable schooner
@gilded mason agreed I have fell in love with the design
versed helm
But you can still rationalize the Halo 2 style as one that exists for when they need to travel light.
stable schooner
But the Armored look of the Halo 3/ODST ODSTS has to be admired.
They all look great without a doubt. ODSTS have always had great lore and design into them.
inner basin
ODSTs are i c o n i c if you ask me. I want to see them back in Infinite, and I believe the Infinity has a complement of around 200 ODSTs iirc.
versed helm
It'd have to be more than that
inner basin
Lemme check
versed helm
Heavy cruisers carry that many, don't they?
stable schooner
Lol true they are ICONIC. Stripe yay or nay?
inner basin
Okay it’s actually 750, I misread the 200 pilots as ODSTs.
stable schooner
ODSTS with stripe or without your preference?
versed helm
I like a bit of colour
inner basin
I think the number of ODSTs is less significant (than during the HCW) due to the Spartan-IV complement of 300-500 on Infinity
versed helm
Personally I kind of object to the idea that ODSTs are a thing that be considered a "regular ship compliment"
Seems like a potential logistical nightmare to always have 220 of them on an Autumn-class
stable schooner
I feel the H2A ones are too camoed to get a stripe but it looks really good on the Halo 3 ones. Reach ODSTS were too like Marines equipment-wise for me.
inner basin
I don’t think they are a regular ship complement, I think the ODSTs post war are complemented like Spartans during the HCW on ships.
versed helm
Well Warfleet says that Autumn-class heavy cruisers have a compliment of 220 ODSTs
Though I guess we can assume the word "potential" there?
A "potential" compliment of 220 drop-pod borne infantry?
inner basin
Oh really? Surely that’s not for every single Autumn-class ship though, right? Unless there’s like 10
versed helm
Honestly they should never have gotten so specific about compliment personnel branches and types
That's not the way it would feasibly work
stable schooner
How many ODSTs where on the Amberclad would you think?
inner basin
I think compliment estimates would work better if they felt they were necessary
versed helm
64 ODSTs, per Warfleet
inner basin
It says on Halopedia that there were 64
stable schooner
Another example of Miranda’s ineptitude sends like 16 pods to the Halo only 3 Survive Landing plus the Chief.
modest marsh
Did they all land in the area though?
versed helm
Miranda's not inept
inner basin
Yeah well not all the ODSTs were launched either, that just seems like a terrible tactical decision
stable schooner
Saying as how we never see anymore I think so. She launched them right on a Fortified Covenant position”Hard Drop”
versed helm
And the bays would need to reload first
modest marsh
Miranda’s claim to fame prior to the events of Halo 2 was ramming her unarmed support ship into a Covenant vessel
Lol
versed helm
If she was really that tactically inept Chief or Johnson would've said something
stable schooner
Lol quality skills right there
versed helm
Besides, ODSTs are meant for attacking fortified positions
modest marsh
The worst part is that it worked
inner basin
Well we know that she was the daughter of the legendary Captain Keyes so she may have inherited his capabilities as a Captain
versed helm
Their entire method of deployment exists so they minimize casualties on a drop
stable schooner
She parked her Ship right next to the flood infested Library.
modest marsh
Leadership skills aren’t inheritable
versed helm
You guys take waayy to much glee for this
stable schooner
Crashed a Pelican right into Truths room by herself
modest marsh
It’s funny
versed helm
It's wrong
stable schooner
Couldn’t even get to her Ship by herself in Cairo or the Index
modest marsh
Nothing she does really makes her seem like a capable leader though
Perhaps not intentional, but she’s dealt a bad hand
Lasky has a far better track record than she does
versed helm
Not everyone's a tactical genius, but she was extremely courageous and decisive. At least she knew enough to get the Chief in the right place to do his job.
inner basin
Do you guys think the Elites saved humans on Installation-05? It’s supposedly how Chips Dubbo and Stacker survived (but their canon status is up the air).
stable schooner
I like Miranda but letting your entire crew plus ship die is a unacceptable no from me
versed helm
And the situations she was put into were always terrible.
"Letting your entire crew plus ship die" is a horrible misrepresentation of what actually occurred, in all likelihood
And I say that because we don't exactly know
inner basin
^
stable schooner
She got caught by Brutes, whole ship infected by flood not much else to tell
versed helm
You're oversimplifying it because it's fun to call a character who's treated as a hero a dummy
inner basin
It’s possible that the Elites helped the humans on 05 well at least some of them
stable schooner
Sent Marines aimlessly throughout the Quarantine Zone
versed helm
"Aimlessly"
These criticisms are turning from "arguably valid" to "literally moronic"
inner basin
The Marines likely volunteered to go
versed helm
They needed to get the index. That's why they were there.
stable schooner
Their literally found scattered throughout the wall and Qurantine Zone
modest marsh
It is a bit bizarre there are UNSC vehicles just scattered all around
inner basin
Besides they didn’t know the flood was released in the Quarantine Zone
versed helm
Because they died fighting their way through, duh.
Because of H2's perspective-switching nature there's a lot of specifics we don't know.
And you're just filling them in with the maximum possible incompetency
stable schooner
She failed plain and Simple. Their was no organized structure to UNSC deployment throughout the Qurantine Zone that can be seen.
versed helm
Like, why not attribute any of this to Johnson?
He's an experienced Marine.
If her calls were that bad, he should've been able to talk her out of them.
modest marsh
Johnson doesn’t determine troop deployment procedures
versed helm
But nah, it's all gotta be on Maranda, innit?
modest marsh
He manages the troops themselves
versed helm
That's a very silly distinction to make.
modest marsh
Is it?
stable schooner
Johnson’s flaw is going with what ever Miranda does and to be fair “ Your father never asked for much help neither”
versed helm
As a sergeant major he's basically there as an advisor.
And logically, he'd have a deep understanding of all facets of Marine deployment
Because he's been a Marine for like 50 years and he has combat experience on a prior Halo ring and he's obviously well respected.
You guys just think it's fun to paint Miranda in a certain light
stable schooner
I mean sure he failed his job to the Covenant just destroyed the UNSC in the race to the Icon.
modest marsh
Doesn’t Johnson literally tell Miranda she doesn’t listen to him
stable schooner
He does
versed helm
But truth be told it's a perspective which devalues the story and it comes off as quite chauvinist.
inner basin
When does he say that?
modest marsh
When they are getting the index
stable schooner
When she’s getting the Icon
modest marsh
Hmmm
versed helm
"You're incompetent and got a bunch of my Marines killed when I tried to advise you otherwise"
"As is my job"
See, you're grasping at straws not to incriminate Johnson
But picking on Miranda is so easy and fun
🤔
modest marsh
Johnson has proven himself
inner basin
To know the lore, one must question the lore
versed helm
Or how about this
modest marsh
Miranda has done what exactly to paint herself as an exceptional leader
versed helm
Maybe war is hell
modest marsh
Not even an average one
versed helm
And it's almost impossible to accurately anticipate your enemy and always make the right call
That's why so many people always die
stable schooner
Exactly she’s an average at best. She’s not her father.
modest marsh
That’s not what I said
versed helm
Well your prior language did not allude to "average at best"
You can't deny that your intent was "hilariously incompetent"
stable schooner
Del Rio Quality
modest marsh
Her actions would seem that way
inner basin
I think had she lived longer, she would’ve been just as good as her father. She sacrificed herself to try and save Johnson
versed helm
The difference there was that Chief actually saw a problem and questioned Del Rio.
Like he has a tendency to do in the face of commanders he sees as incompetent.
And also Del Rio was a coward.
modest marsh
Eehhh...