I don't think the monitors are rampant, just crazy from isolation and immortality
#lore-and-universe
warped nimbus
versed helm
I do wonder why Zeta Halo looked so damaged
hardy goblet
Space popcorn poped too much
modest marsh
Probably incurred during whatever battle transpired
limpid meadow
Yes, but the real question is why there was a battle
What is the importance of Installation 07, especially in relation to Cortana's plans?
vagrant pollen
Halo infinite should have mission where we punch cortana like how we punched prophet of regret in halo 2
limpid meadow
I'd rather punch myself
vagrant pollen
Hi halo canon
limpid meadow
Hey
carmine sleet
Aye, that's something that has me really curious. I can't think of anything, outside of Zeta being the oldest of the Halos, that could make it a good place for Cortana to go to the ring. Especially since it's not because it is a Halo, we know 05 is also one that she could've easily gone instead so there has to be something we don't know yet that 07 has that all the others don't have
lunar spruce
Installation 07 is a halo ring, it could have been destroyed by any faction simply to remove it from the area
a intact Halo is a massive threat to anyone in the area
limpid meadow
There's got to be something more to it
modest marsh
Halo has defense systems that would trigger if attacked
limpid meadow
Why does Cortana want a Halo at all?
vagrant pollen
Because it has less pollution
modest marsh
?
lunar spruce
Halos have massive sentinel production facilities, defenses, and are essentially unbreachable fortresses
carmine sleet
My guess is that it's some sort of Forerunner mu-guffin that's only on 07 that will likely be either the key to her plan, or the thing that can stop her. She's not likely to fire it since that goes against her plans to rule the galaxy
modest marsh
She could be trying to modify them to do something other than kill everyone
carmine sleet
If she was after Sentinel Production Facilities, she could've just as easily gone to 05, same with modifying a ring
modest marsh
Like the Didact
limpid meadow
Why would Cortana want Sentinels when she has the Prometheans, and clearly has a means to mass produce them?
vagrant pollen
It might be same as in halo cryptum where Faber has reduced the halos firing range to inflict damage in small scale to contain any revolt
limpid meadow
Any Sentinel she could get on Halo could be gotten at other locations, and there are larger production facilities than those on a Halo.
modest marsh
Is Cortana not after rings in general?
vagrant pollen
What if she just encountered it
limpid meadow
They aren't really a threat, not to her
modest marsh
We have no reason to think Zeta is unique to her plans, it’s just the one we see
vagrant pollen
Domain ?
limpid meadow
Ah, that's true
modest marsh
What about the domain
vagrant pollen
Because halo ring could damage domain
limpid meadow
^^^
vagrant pollen
As it is an neural physics
modest marsh
Cortana seems to want to use the rings however
vagrant pollen
We dont know for sure
modest marsh
She could easily destroy them
vagrant pollen
We are assuming it
modest marsh
But she hasn’t
limpid meadow
Assuming she wasn't responsible for the damage to Zeta
modest marsh
The amount of damage done to it is minuscule
Remember when a single halcyon class cruiser blew one to pieces
If Cortana wanted them destroyed, that should be completely within her means to do so without issue
vagrant pollen
I had noticed one thing in e3 2018 trailer there halo monuments which destroyed same as e3 2019 teailer. E3 2018 trailer takes place at 2561 and e3 2019 takes place at 2562
So the ring has to be destroyed during 2561 or before that
modest marsh
We don’t know how much of the 2018 trailer is canon
stoic hamlet
The 218 trailer takes place in May 2560
modest marsh
It’s expressly just a tech showcase
stoic hamlet
And the destroyed “rings” could be anything
vagrant pollen
But there were hints of other stuff
stoic hamlet
^^^
carmine sleet
The destroyed rings could've just been added as a cool detail in the tech demo for all we know
vagrant pollen
@limpid meadow might help us
stoic hamlet
Mhm
modest marsh
We still have over 12 months before the game is finalized
stoic hamlet
He doesn’t know any more than us
low idol
could it be possible a ship jumping through a portal too close to the ring did the damage, kinda like the ship jumping in to halo 2
modest marsh
Too big
vagrant pollen
No they mentioned that halo infinite will start during universe in middle of war
So all this year they have been fighting it.
modest marsh
We’ve never seen a slipspace portal that large besides the one generated by the Ark
stoic hamlet
It’s not a very long time to have been fighting Cortana, tbh
modest marsh
The next biggest was the Mantle’s Approach
vagrant pollen
2559 - 2562 at least 3 years
limpid meadow
*2561
vagrant pollen
It might be infinity colliding with guardian and damaging the ring with it
modest marsh
Still too big
stoic hamlet
There’s no indication Infinity is there
limpid meadow
Maybe. I'm not convinced they'd be able to damaged a Halo enough
stoic hamlet
No debris that vaguely appear to be it
modest marsh
That chunk of the halo that’s missing is the size of a small country
stoic hamlet
Unless it was evaporated entirely
limpid meadow
The additional damage is likely from the movement of the ring.
vagrant pollen
But i still think e3 2018 trailer is canon it first perfectly univer middle at war theory
stoic hamlet
Which I don’t buy because no one would risk Infinity on a suicide run
limpid meadow
Initial damage, the ring moves, causing further damage
modest marsh
No ship could cause that amount of destruction just from a head on collision
stoic hamlet
^^^
low idol
unless it was a really big ship
stoic hamlet
Nah not even then
modest marsh
It would have to be even bigger than the largest ship we’ve ever seen
vagrant pollen
What if the damage has been minimal but due to ring movement it started to break apart slowly
modest marsh
Zeta is 318km wide
vagrant pollen
But why are we so sure that cortana is on zeta
humble yacht
Like the height of the cylinder is 318km?
vagrant pollen
She could be on any guardian as seen in halo 5
warped nimbus
because cortana is talking while chief approaches a bunch of blue hologram stuff and pulls out a AI chip
vagrant pollen
It could be some other place
warped nimbus
plus she can really be anywhere tbh
vagrant pollen
It could be a prologue
carmine sleet
Could just be voice over added over the footage
vagrant pollen
It could be before Halo ring got damaged
limpid meadow
All signs point to Zeta
warped nimbus
a prologue to what? the hologram shows the ring being damaged
and that is technically true Slip, but then it doesn't make much sense to pull the chip out
humble yacht
Rim to rim and the cylindrical height are the same afaik
limpid meadow
The Morse code in the 2018 trailer, and "local ref Zeta" in this year's trailer
modest marsh
Then yes
lunar spruce
plot twist
low idol
"Structural information
Diameter:
10,000 kilometers (formerly 30,000 kilometers)[3]
Surface width:
318 kilometers[4]"
lunar spruce
it is actually Installation 04 coming back for revenge
modest marsh
The only ship big enough to do substantial enough damage to penetrate it would be Mantle’s approach, which has a few spare kilometers on it in height
limpid meadow
Someone could have shot at the ring
vagrant pollen
Mantles approach 2
modest marsh
We’ve seen what Infinity’s MAC did to the Mantle’s Approach
limpid meadow
We see sustained Covenant plasma beams are strong enough to penetrate the Ark. Something similar could happen at Zeta
vagrant pollen
What if monitor of the installation and cortana have fight
limpid meadow
Assuming the Monitor is present
modest marsh
Penetrate, yes, but sever segments entirely?
lunar spruce
UNSC has a large amount of nuclear weapons that could do that
limpid meadow
It was missing in 2555
warped nimbus
I mean, with what the autumn did to Alpha halo, could be that Infinity did the same, or the spirit of fire, might not destroy it, but it would do decent damage
Plus, looking at the hologram in the end, it looks like it was a small bit of damage that then sent ripples through it with the compromised structural integrity and fast spinning
modest marsh
Nova, consider this
limpid meadow
@modest marsh The severed segments likely happened later, after the initial damage
modest marsh
What weapon does the UNSC have that is the size of the Autumn’s reactor?
warped nimbus
?
vagrant pollen
What if chief tried to pull pilliar of autumn thing from ce and cortana tried to detach the module like how anders did in halo wars 2
modest marsh
Short of a NOVA bomb, which would obliterate the ring entirely
vagrant pollen
Timing didn't suit and it damaged the ring
lunar spruce
multiple nuclear charges/some currently unknown weapon
modest marsh
UNSC ships don’t have a delivery method to reliably replicate the damage that the pillar of autumn did
warped nimbus
I'm talking the infinity, way bigger than the autumn, with a very different reactor, who knows how much damage it could do
modest marsh
Nukes can’t break open countries
warped nimbus
not their weapons, but the ships themself pulling an autumn
vagrant pollen
Yeah and cortana tried to remove the segment
modest marsh
Huh?
warped nimbus
that could make sense, but again, looking at the hologram in the end of the trailer, it looks like some small damage sent ripples through the ring
vagrant pollen
But it failed from both sides neither infinity successfully destroyed zeta and also cortana didn't save zeta properly
stoic hamlet
Why would they risk Infinity like that?
Actually though, someone answer this, because it makes no sense
vagrant pollen
To stop cortana
lunar spruce
maybe Cortana was trying to destroy Zeta, and the UNSC was defending it
stoic hamlet
But they wouldn’t suicide their best ship
warped nimbus
EMPed it, whatever
stoic hamlet
That’s absurd
modest marsh
Then it would drift
warped nimbus
alright, think of it this way
vagrant pollen
Yeah my wordings are not accurate but sort of
warped nimbus
All of the galaxy is being policed by a megalomaniacal AI
she then threatens to fire a galactic superweapon
Do you
A Let her restart the galaxy
or
B Send your ship into it so it can't fire
That's just one scenario
stoic hamlet
I mean, by that logic the UNSC and SoS are a new Covenant
modest marsh
Cortana has no reason to use Halo for its intended purpose
stoic hamlet
Because the only similarity is that multiple races are fighting together
modest marsh
She already has an effective policing tool
vagrant pollen
What if flood comes into picture considering history with zeta
warped nimbus
could also be that, in their random jumps, they come across Zeta, and Cortana has her forces defending it, of which damage the Infinity, which then crashes into the Halo ring
Being beyond repair, Chief decides to destroy the ring with the infinity
vagrant pollen
Both cortana and unsc try to fend it off
stoic hamlet
They already had bases on Zeta for years
warped nimbus
we really can't be assuming what the story even is yet
vagrant pollen
Ok
modest marsh
I don’t think that’s a good way to start the game
stoic hamlet
The UNAC has had outposts on Zeta for a while
warped nimbus
it's how H1 started dude
modest marsh
And the 2019 trailer is confirmed to be the opening cutscene
warped nimbus
that doesn't mean nothing happened before it?
modest marsh
You’re suggesting Master Chief does a bunch of important stuff onscreen including go on the ring itself?
warped nimbus
what I said is basically CE, so it might be that stuff happened before, so the game isn't a glorified remake
modest marsh
That seems at odds with what they’re going for
vagrant pollen
It could be a walking simulator game also
modest marsh
A halo game has never begun with Master Chief having blown up something and we didn’t even get to see it
vagrant pollen
Exploring halo ring
stoic hamlet
You know how many people would riot if it was literally just a walking sim, lol
vagrant pollen
Lol
warped nimbus
doesn't mean this one won't?
Or that it could be a prologue cutscene
carmine sleet
Depends what the best way of walking is
modest marsh
What if
vagrant pollen
What if
warped nimbus
H4 had a Prologue scene before the game
Reach had one
5 didn't even start with the stated "Opening cutscene
modest marsh
It did
modest marsh
All games have an opening cutscene, which the e3 trailer is stated to be
warped nimbus
that doesn't mean it's the First cutscene
modest marsh
So in your version of events
warped nimbus
I'm not saying what I said is what will happen or even that i think it will happen, i'm just saying it's a possibility
modest marsh
Anything is a possibility but we should be talking towards feasibility
warped nimbus
They're still gonna need a prologue to explain what happened before that opening cutscene
warped nimbus
how are they going to explain it then? Chief has amnesia suddenly?
modest marsh
Explain what
modest marsh
We already know what happened within the scene more or less, the details can come later
vagrant pollen
Novel
vagrant pollen
We lost
warped nimbus
okay? that still doesn't say if the infinity ran, blew up, or crashed into the Halo
modest marsh
What more do you absolutely need to understand what’s happening
warped nimbus
or why Chief is out there
modest marsh
That can be shown like two seconds after the cutscene ends
warped nimbus
what?
modest marsh
It’s more efficient to put those elements of storytelling within the game itself
It will presumably start with Chief jumping out of the Pelican, and then we’ll have a wider grasp of what happened
Our view within the cutscene is very deliberately restrained
Once you’re in gameplay, the interactive element will evoke a sense of discovery when you can control the rate at which you discover pertinent information, which 343 has stated to be a goal of theirs
Unnecessarily overexplaining convoluted narrative details is what got people annoyed with their stories
warped nimbus
I don't see how they could explain the disappearance on the infinity, because it's clearly not there, or at least not functional in any sense, because the pilot would've been saved
lunar spruce
simply
Infinity had to retreat, and the Pelican had been hit by a EMP
they didn't have time to search for it
obsidian thistle
The Pelican was bashed up
warped nimbus
he was strapped in, probably unconscious
obsidian thistle
I mean the pilot had to fix stuff
modest marsh
Also consider this Nova
fair hazel
The pilot did not have huragok to fix pelican
modest marsh
The pilot still has access to comms
He can talk to chief during gameplay
So there’s plenty of opportunity for verbal exposition
warped nimbus
I guess? I just feel like that would be a really crappy way to send off the infinity
modest marsh
I just think it’s unimportant or useful considering the circumstances
You also have to consider this game is meant to be an entry point for people unfamiliar with halo
low idol
must have been a couple MREs in the back too
gilded mason
A man can dream.
warped nimbus
I doubt they really would just run without chief
warped nimbus
and regardless of who's playing it, it's called Infinite, and a leak said it could've been called Infinity, it sounds like the ship would have a big role, or at least be shown, it makes no sense to destroy it offscrean
I guess they could leave him for that reason, but I'm pretty sure they would have good tracking on him, sure the pelican only got his signal when he got close, but it was on really low power, and even, again, if they had to run, they would know where chief is operating in and send a pelican close to then pick him up proper
feral perch
The Infinity seems far too important
vagrant pollen
@feral perch it must be destroyed
feral perch
no
fair hazel
No
warped nimbus
no?
vagrant pollen
I am afraid for lasky
gilded mason
Yes
warped nimbus
It could be destroyed, but it doesn't need to be
then again, Autumn and Dawn both were destroyed so
vagrant pollen
Ok @feral perch your idea will be taken into consideration and infinity won't be destroyed
warped nimbus
but both were onscreen
low idol
“Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force chief's luck"
feral perch
The Infinity is far more powerful than the Autumn or Dawn.
It's basically a lifeboat for humanity as a species.
vagrant pollen
Yeah its so powerful that it ran away
feral perch
It won't go down like those other ships, I'm sure.
warped nimbus
it could be destroyed, but it could also survive
we have no reason to think one or the other, nothing solid
vagrant pollen
Infinitys only strength is fleeing from battle
warped nimbus
no?
vagrant pollen
Even cortana has hard time catching it
feral perch
Infinity rammed through a Covenant ship without suffering a scratch
warped nimbus
It's got four MACs and nukes and mini frigates, it's tough af, it just can't survive EMPs so
feral perch
She punched a hole in the Mantle's Approach
vagrant pollen
Yeah and it ran from a guardian
warped nimbus
that's irrelevant, it would still shutdown the ship
feral perch
Guardians are silly deus ex machina for the Created imo
They did not exist in any media before Halo 5.
warped nimbus
they've been canon for a long time
vagrant pollen
Yeah and infinity is not?
warped nimbus
they have been though?
fair hazel
A lot of stuff doesn't exist before, and it will be brought up
warped nimbus
not in that form I don't think, but they've been around for a bit
feral perch
The Infinity isn't because we got some decent backstory for it.
warped nimbus
the idea of them
feral perch
There was nothing about the Guardians in the original trilogy or the Forerunner trilogy.
warped nimbus
we got backstory for the guardians too though?
fair hazel
Not much
feral perch
You'd think something so crucial to the Forerunner empire, something so monumentally powerful, would be mentioned once.
modest marsh
Mind you, every Halo game has had its “main ship” destroyed or critically damaged, H5 being the exception which did have concept art and a trailer that depicts it as having sustained heavy damage
warped nimbus
I think they were originally just another forerunner ship
fair hazel
But the idea that it wasn't in ce-3 or forerunner trilogy so it shouldnt exist is...
Like, no. The universe is much bigger than that. Lots of opportunities for creativity
feral perch
It's such an important part of the way they upheld the Mantle, that it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't have appeared in any previous media.
fair hazel
There's the guardian sentinel which is not the guardian custode
warped nimbus
and just because they have them, doesn't mean they deployed them massively
feral perch
But they did.
vagrant pollen
Yeah infinity is so strong that forerunners want to learn from it
feral perch
Exuberant Witness said so.
vagrant pollen
Epitaph
feral perch
Not the Guardians from Halo 5.
modest marsh
Not specifically no
vagrant pollen
They are just redesign
warped nimbus
It's still a version of the guardians
feral perch
You're talking about the ones on Sandbox?
modest marsh
That’s narrow minded to think
warped nimbus
chief's armor was redesigned, the Dawn was redesigned
pretty much everything was for 343
vagrant pollen
Elites
feral perch
No, the two Guardians are distinct. The ones on Sandbox did not serve the same purpose.
modest marsh
No, Guardians conceptually were a Forerunner construct that were ever used
vagrant pollen
Stonewall did you write the lore
wispy bough
FYI the Dawn wasn't actually redesigned canonically. The one seen in H4 is purely for gameplay. The canon look is still Halo 3's Dawn
modest marsh
They got reused for a different purpose
wispy bough
Kinda relevant but not really.
warped nimbus
that's what i meant though?
feral perch
What? The Guardians were used by the Forerunners extensively, to police solar systems and enforce "peace."
And yet we heard nothing about them until 5.
modest marsh
Alright but like
fair hazel
modest marsh
Those are ideas which were meant to be explored earlier on
feral perch
You can take your smart mouth somewhere else bruh @vagrant pollen
vagrant pollen
Sorry
modest marsh
The majority of 343i’s “novel ideas” are just scrapped Bungie ideas that got reused
feral perch
How do we know that 343i was inspired by this specifically? There's just anecdotal evidence from some of the other plot points they've used.
modest marsh
Cortana turning evil is a big one
fair hazel
modest marsh
That’s not important
vagrant pollen
@fair hazel thats actually great
feral perch
That's important to my underlying point - Halo 5 had plot holes, and the Guardians are a big one.
vagrant pollen
I never noticed
modest marsh
What’s plot hole-y about the guardians themselves?
fair hazel
Guardians are not a plot hole. There is a lot we dont know about how the forerunners did things
modest marsh
They don’t seem to be intrinsically flawed inclusions
fair hazel
A LOTTTTTTTTTTT
And they're used for certain species at a certain treshold
like, UNSC has APCs, but we dont tend to see them much, they appeared in halo wars 2 finally
feral perch
They were never mentioned in previous media despite being crucial to their empire, and they give the Created almost unlimited power very quickly (deus ex machina)
modest marsh
Why did it have to be overtly mentioned when we know next to nothing about the Forerunners anyway
We already knew the Forerunners were powerful
feral perch
We have the Forerunner trilogy?
Plus terminals across Halo 3 and Halo 4, short stories, etc...
modest marsh
What’s talked about in the book that would influence anything concerned here
Especially in the games
feral perch
I haven't read them heh
feral perch
It should matter.
fair hazel
crucial to the empire?
modest marsh
You aren’t invested enough to look at the material anyway
How does it affect your enjoyment
fair hazel
guardians in cryptum
feral perch
Wow, we're using insults now?
modest marsh
I’m not insulting you
fair hazel
don't see where they'd fit other than maybe on primitive earth?
modest marsh
I’m stating a fact
fair hazel
What insults? please calm down
feral perch
As someone who is invested in the lore, I take that as an insult.
modest marsh
You didn’t read the material so you don’t have anyway of knowing whether or not putting guardians into the story would’ve been suitable
fair hazel
I am pretty sure he read the material maggruber
feral perch
The mythos is massive, and because I don't know about one section of it, I'm not invested in the whole of it?
modest marsh
Eric he just said he didn’t
fair hazel
Unless he said he didn't.
feral perch
Halopedia has helped me understand a lot of what the trilogy contains.
fair hazel
Ah I see.
Stonewall, guardians don't fit in those books
neither do they really fit in the terminals
modest marsh
Stonewall you basically said you wanted guardians in Greg Bear’s novels
fair hazel
The forerunner trilogy aren't an overview to the empire.
feral perch
One sentence mentioning them would be nice. Nothing else.
fair hazel
They're focused stories
modest marsh
What I am saying is that those stories do not lend themselves to addressing elements of the Forerunner society that aren’t concerned with them
The author was very clear with what his goal was with his novels
fair hazel
And stonewall, not everything about the forerunners is going to be figured out when writing those. A lot of times you have to open yourself up to adding new things. Not everything can be thought up at the moment.
They're stories, not lore guides.
modest marsh
It wasn’t about explaining everything there is to know about Forerunners
We still know very little
feral perch
I didn't say that, but something so large and obvious does seem important. Apparently they were a solid concept by 2013.
Judging by the E3 2013 trailer.
modest marsh
And?
fair hazel
There are so many forerunner ships and things we don't know about, that are important.
modest marsh
Guardians were mentioned before halo 5 came out if you want to get technical
Hunt the Truth is a big one
feral perch
I still think they could've been handled better.
modest marsh
Nobody is denying that
The notion that they’re innately contradictory to the established universe is what I take issue with
feral perch
Why weren't they used to render the Flood's vessels ineffective?
gilded mason
They had a blurb regarding that in Warfleet, it seems.
Apparently it was ineffective for some reason.
gilded mason
The Flood doesn’t need ships
What?
feral perch
For space battles, and to escape a planet, they surely do.
modest marsh
Star roads
feral perch
That was the whole point of Defender of the Storm
I'm wondering why the Guardians weren't created with the ability to target pulses. It seems odd that they can't actually direct the charge so as not to harm allied ships.
modest marsh
If the Forerunners trade all of their mechanically based equipment and vessels to match that of the Flood, they will lose
They are outnumbered significantly
And the Flood have several esoteric abilities the Forerunners do not that further reduce the amount of room they have to breathe
Remember when the Gravemind was able to open a functional slipspace portal to the Ark without using the Voi portal in High Charity, which lacked its primary power source and heavily damaged?
feral perch
Why not send in a Guardian alone to neutralize the threat in space? Why does it need support ships?
fair hazel
Guardians would be obliverated by actual forerunner military ships
modest marsh
That’s not how battles work
fair hazel
It's like sending a police car against a tank
feral perch
I see. Although, an entire solar system doesn't seem to be a small range...
modest marsh
They aren’t solar system range, they just police a solar system
A beat cop can cover a few blocks but not all at the same time
feral perch
Do we know the limits of a pulse?
modest marsh
Yes
Legacy of Onyx suggests they can only cover maybe a few thousand kilometers
The pulse weapon is outranged even by UNSC and Covenant weapons, which is why it has other supplementary weapons as well to handle enemy ships
feral perch
I see.
So, are Guardians immune to the pulses of other Guardians?
Why not send in a legion of them to deal with a Flood infestation?
modest marsh
It seems to be effectively rendered inert with each pulse
It needs several minutes to recover
In that time, a local force could overwhelm it if it were outside of its range
feral perch
Right, so if you had a staggered line of pulses from maybe ten or so, that might be quite effective.
modest marsh
There’s also not really that many
feral perch
Insufficient numbers seemed to be a problem with every solution the Forerunners tried on the Flood
but there were plenty gathered on Genesis by the time Cortana was done.
modest marsh
More guardians does not seem like an effective plan
What, like a few dozen?
Hundred?
That’s paltry
modest marsh
That’s still inefficient
feral perch
If they exit slipspace within range and with significant numbers
feral perch
I suppose.
modest marsh
Exit slipspace in the gap between pulses and eliminate them
They take a long time to charge
feral perch
That's an interesting solution.
modest marsh
It’s an inefficient weapon outside of population control
I will admit a lot of this is clarified in Bad Blood and Legacy of Onyx
The limitations that is
In general, the Forerunners and their technology as we see them in the game seem to be used suboptimally because their limits and capabilities aren’t well defined
feral perch
Perhaps I was wrong to be so harsh in judgment against the Guardians.
modest marsh
I think your grievances are justified, but placing them on the guardians themselves is perhaps a bit misguided
stable schooner
So how come 343 Guilty Spark never though it prudent to interact with the Humans before the Flood broke out?
stable schooner
Wasn’t that just him letting them on the Ring. I don’t recall him physically floating up to them
obsidian thistle
The Covies then took Sparks interest till the Flood were released.
stable schooner
Seems like most other Monitors/ custodians tried contacting humans quicker
And it also seems like just like the 05 caretaker he was skimping in his duties like why not deny access to nonreclaimer Aliens and AI to the Control Room.
obsidian thistle
Really? We havent seen I03, nor I07s. I00s just ignored us till we damaged the ark.
Nope. Red 15 is an anomally atm
versed helm
Stinks
stable schooner
Wasn’t the Arks cause of Bias though. Their was the Monitor in Halo 5 and in the comic with the Didact who sought out Humans.
05s Monitor strikes me as the worst though
carmine sleet
The Monitor of the Ark appeared during Hunters in the Dark where they were killed. The Monitors in Halo 5 and Escalation were for different installations
obsidian thistle
I still wonder what caused the 05 flood outbreak. Hints suggest meddling aliens.
2401 PT was lax in prevention. But wasnt the cause.
inner basin
00s Monitor is definitely the worst. They had a timer to activate the rings to draw humanity to the Ark.
stable schooner
What aliens could have released the Flood on 05 so long ago though.
carmine sleet
Could've been anything
inner basin
I believe it was Meddlers. I really can’t see it being anything else. I saw a speculation video on it a while back, bringing up plausible points.
carmine sleet
The Meddlers aren't necessarily just a single race though. That said, it would be nice to learn more about their race/races and what sets them apart from other races in Halo
inner basin
Oh I know they are multiple races. The term is used to define any unknowns in the Halo universe. It’s typically describing races outside of our galaxy though.
stable schooner
I wonder how Guilty Spark felt being on another installation. 05 itself is definitely an Oddity.
I wonder if the Gravemind Kept poor old 2401 around
obsidian thistle
I still love how the meddlers became something more than something I kept pointing out to folks for years
modest marsh
jump jet brutes in spartan assault also use them
i'd say specifically the mines used in halo 3 are brute weapons
stable schooner
I agree with this^
tropic sandal
We've got a ton of info on the manufacturers of all the UNSC weapons and armour, but not for equipment. At least not from Halo 3
Halo Fandom page quotes "While most of the equipment is Covenant-manufactured, some are human-made, such as the Trip Mine. Others, such as the Automated Turret, were made by the Forerunners."
I'd love to see some sources for that
modest marsh
i think that's entirely inferred
which to be fair
the construction of the tripmine looks somewhat ambiguous, perhaps leaning towards human
i'd still bet more heavily on it being considered a brute weapon in the long term
tropic sandal
Yeah I think based on the fact that jump brutes always have them and marine and ODST npcs don't ever use them I'd lean toward it being a Brute device
modest marsh
well also
- we've seen the tripmines supposedly used by the UNSC in forge, so as far as the games are concerned we already have an established look for them which the h3 equipment certainly doesn't fulfill
- LOTUS mines and the like exist in lore, which are nothing like either
stable schooner
Exactly it’s only ever used by Brutes. However to be fair Brutes use Human Shotguns in 2.
modest marsh
they explicitly got their hands on human weapons
stable schooner
Yeah I know Brutes aren’t above using human equipment
modest marsh
halopedia conjectures the brutes did the same with the mines, but i have my doubts
obsidian thistle
I need to fix up the equipment pages.
stable schooner
However the Mine has the General aesthetic of Brute Weaponry
obsidian thistle
And the "Halo Fandom" pages are really iffy as most of the Halo 3 era pages still have assumptions from 2009 in them.
tropic sandal
Yeah I wasn't sure about the reliability of the info there
The lack of sources on a lot of stuff isn't compelling
stable schooner
Alright here’s a question that always spawns debate. Do you think the Sentinels helped or opposed the Humans in Halo 2?
storm flume
Helped. It baffled me for a while that Arbiter had to trek through the entire containment zone to get the Library while Miranda could just park her ship directly above the place
stable schooner
@storm flume I say Opposed. 1. Sentinels are seen attacking the Marines. 2. Sentinels didn’t let Miranda through the wall. 3. Theirs dead Sentinels all around the Index when Miranda tries to get it. 4. 2401 didn’t know Humans were on the Ring.
Arbiter lowered the Shield Wall 5. Marines were sent into the wall. 6. Sentinels were programmed to defend the wall at all costs.
storm flume
I don't recall seeing the sentinels attack marines, nor do I know of when the sentinels tried to stop Miranda. 3 is fair, it comes back to me now that you mention it, and as for the thing about 2401, I would've thought it'd be in the sentinels' prime directive to assist humans unless overridden by their native moniter.
mellow agate
Programs don't have emotions therefore they were just doing their job, so they are in the gray area for me
tropic sandal
Their unbiased actions can still produce a positive or negative outcome for one group
stable schooner
When The Title Friendly Competition shows up A marine driven Pelican is seen flying ahead shooting at Sentinels and Flood. The second group of Marines seen in sacred Icon when Stacker says “They are not Covenant” are being attacked by the Sentinels.
Sentinels also attacked the Humans in Halo Wars in the Shield World
storm flume
These are details I must've missed last decade when I last played Halo 2 lol
mellow agate
I know nothing bout lore, if it makes noises imma kill it
storm flume
Oh yeah I do remember Halo wars a bit though, even though I only played through the campaign once lol
noble urchin
hello men
void haven
strong sage
What was the name of the MA series weapon that uses 10mm rounds
Was it the MA5K or MA5B or uhhhh i forgot
obsidian thistle
MA2B
strong sage
Ah yes thank you fam ^^
Did they still use it till postwar conflicts
Or even now fam?
Woops sorry about the last part xd
obsidian thistle
All we have is that it was used "sparsely across the UNSC Special Force" tbh.
And its only been seen once
sly birch
Yo
Can y’all 343 dudes
Expose more Spartan 3 names please
Cause I would love some more
versed helm
Well there were a lot of them
So I'm reasonably confident in saying that at least one of them was named Jim
Jim the Spartan
sly birch
I dunno
They got some wack names
Plus you gotta get the #s right
Cause if you get a gt that’s perfect like name company-### you can make some good money
fair hazel
Pretty sure selling gamer tags is against terms of service, so don’t discuss that here.
abstract zealot
Xbox terms of conditions.
strong sage
I think its best to talk about that on general or somewhere fam as this is fore lore xd
abstract zealot
^
versed helm
Can I just say that that's probably a terrible way to make money
And you're probably taking advantage of someone with serious issues if you actually sell them a gamertag
Besides, finding a unique tag that's not taken was sort of a rite of passage for gamers - and it's going away soon, so 🤷
Xbox live's getting the username numerical tag system like on here.
obsidian thistle
Regardless lets not discuss this. I'd rather talk cool laser and stuff. Oh wait lets discuss the Spartan Laser. A weapon so cool it has Spartan and Laser in its name. :)
inner basin
Ah yes, the Weapon/Anti Vehicle Model 6 Grindell/Galilean Nonlinear Rifle. Is this what you want to discuss, CIA? (Also I had to just search up on Halopedia to find it’s full name).
obsidian thistle
I find it interesting how each game is a different model of the thing.
inner basin
Halo 5 introduced us to a few other models/variants like Endgame and Selene’s Lance.
strong sage
Isnt Gungnier Mjolnir armor is made with spartan laser program
inner basin
“It was developed as a part of the GUNGNIR Program by a separate but parallel team, as a modification of existing Mjolnir variants optimized for the use of the M6 Spartan Laser.” This is from Halopedia under the Development History of the armour @strong sage
strong sage
Noiceeeee , i always found that gungnir armor set is interesting. I wanna see it Mjolnir GEN 3 form as well
inner basin
I would prefer the GEN1 look for Gungnir GEN3 (if it is to happen) instead of the GEN2 look as the GEN1 looks more realistic and something humanity would design and create.
versed helm
Does anybody ever wonder how the MA5B can hold 60 rounds?
I've heard a theory that it uses a quad-stacked magazine, and I think that's plausible.
autumn urchin
Magic
strong sage
Ayeee i like the GEN 1 looks as well fam , it holds the appearance of a supersoldier + robotic looking thingy especially with the one eye
inner basin
It’s actually a camera sort of thing that displays the view on the inside of the helmet on like a visor behind the front of the helmet
storm flume
I love putting Gungnir helmet on my Reach spartan when I want him to look like an absolute tank
inner basin
The Gungnir set looks so awesome and it was unique too.
autumn urchin
no u
versed helm
I still wonder whatever became of that Sarcophagus that was built around that unknown ship after Installation 04 blew up
storm flume
No way to know, it hasn't come up again since the terminals, not even mentioned afaik
There's roughly an equal possibility it's been destroyed as there is that it is intact I think
stable schooner
Flood Infecting High Charity yay or nay?
warped nimbus
it happened so, what's the question?
stable schooner
Good or bad.
lunar spruce
bad?
gilded mason
I miss High Charity. And reading about its intricacies in Warfleet makes me wish we could go back to it in its heyday.
stable schooner
@lunar spruce what ever you think I won’t spam paragraphs to sway any one to any side this time.
storm flume
It could have ended a lot worse
lunar spruce
I am not sure, it knocked High Charity out of the fight but risked a unstoppable flood infestation
storm flume
The gravemind had every opportunity to start taking over the galaxy once High Charity was under his control, but it was an idiot
stable schooner
Well he’d rather not see all life wiped out again.
Personally I say bad cause it granted the Flood millions of hosts, a way to the Ark and the ruining of my favorite piece of tech in Halo
But of course it blinded the Covenant with a major distraction and destroyed their Capital
storm flume
Was there only one functioning ship on the entirety of High Charity after the takeover?
stable schooner
It also begs the question would Rtas arrive to Earth in time to stop Truth if he didn’t chase the Flood to Earth.
storm flume
Surely it would not have been such a huge deal to spread the infection to more places than Earth before he warped High Charity to the Ark
stable schooner
Pretty funny when you realize the Flood were the ones who give Truth time to activate the Rings
tribal meadow
Excuse me I have a question the first contact is on harvest in 2525 ?
tribal meadow
Ok thx
Sorry I have an another question because someone thinks I lie : what we have in 2518 ?
modest marsh
Hmm?
tribal meadow
The guy said (the first contact in this year)
storm flume
The only thing known to happen in 2518 was the selection of leaders among the SPARTAN-IIs
According to halopedia anyways
tribal meadow
Ok thanks
hallow willow
is there a reason why the halo 4 hunters are so much quicker than others
fair hazel
gameplay
stable schooner
@hallow willow Cause their Reach Hunters just with worst AI
hallow willow
they kill me more than any other game lol
stable schooner
And Reach Hunters are Second only to Halo 5s demigod Hunters
fossil eagle
#MakeHuntersScaryAgain
warped nimbus
Idk, they were kinda spooky in H5, just not in warzone, could use an AI update, and probably a better arena, too many places to hide
versed helm
I mean, in Warzone they weren't very fun to fight
Tbh in campaign they weren't very fun to fight, but at least you could draw their fire and have your buddies hit them from behind
But like basically every boss enemy in Warzone, the only options are like Nova said hide somewhere and plonk away at them with heavy weapons or just get instakilled
There's really no fun in that for me
stable schooner
You know what upon taking a detailed look at all 4 343 Marine designs. I think their all worst then the Reach and H2A Marines. All their armor is multi colored, isn’t consistent with other Marine types, and some look like they their lacking in protection.
warped nimbus
agreed
versed helm
I think the general idea behind them is fantastic - creating a sort of base layer (the ballistic vest) over which all sorts of supplemental plating and doodads are worn.
You could do something similar to sort of unify all the old designs. Create a standard ballistic vest type thing, then have Marines variants with configurations of plating from all across the games. Plus, certain variants of Halo 4 Marine gear - namely the ones without the goofy oversized helmets - were actually pretty cool.
I agree, though, that the lack of uniform colouring is silly. I guess they fixed that in Halo 5 warzone, right xD 😛
That is, if you like your eyes bleeding
But to tie this discussion back to lore, you can see that most designs of UNSC infantry body armour are arrayed over an underlying vest of some kind. The exceptions are the H2A and H2 classic armour, which you could rationalize as like a lightweight protective solution designed to be easy to move in and quick to get into - if you follow that assumption, it can tie in pretty well with Halo Encyclopedia lore regarding UNSC infantry types (y'know, light, heavy, space and such, all of which are likely organized into battalions like Army recon battalions or the Black Daggers).
Most of the Marines in H2A could be from a Marine light infantry battalion, with Marines from Halo 3 either being from a heavy unit or using some kind of prototype armour first seen before the battle of Algolis.
stable schooner
Marines in H2A look more armored then the Marines in Halo 2 and 3 though. Like they literally have more Thicker Plating and more of it then then Halo 2 and 3/ODST Marines
versed helm
Actually, not exactly.
The H2A Marines have very prominent armoured boots, but their chestplates are very compact and their midsections are left relatively uncovered below them.
The helmets are very minimal too.
I think if you get a Halo 3 Marine and an H2A Marine side-by-side, they're probably mostly even in terms of raw protective coverage (if you factor in the vest), but I think the H2A armour is easier to move in but less protective of the centre of mass.
Also, critically, there's less places to store gear on it.
A big part of the hypothetical difference between heavy and light infantry in this context would be the gear that they carry.
According to the encyclopedia, light infantry are general-purpose riflemen, for the most part, and heavy infantry are about assaulting positions in close quarters and defending them with heavy weapons.
So a light infantry fireteam would more or less just need magazines for their rifles and maybe a few SPNKR tubes.
Meanwhile heavy infantry need to carry shotguns, grenade launchers, extra ammo, equipment for position reinforcement and weapon emplacement, much more heavy firepower to deal with energy-shielded Covenant infantry and hunters. It goes on.
humble bobcat
Hi! So is Halo Reach consistent with the Fall of Reach Novel by Eric Nylund? Is it just a different perspective from a different group of Spartans?
versed helm
They're a little tricky to reconcile but technically they can work together.
Halo Canon did a video on it - he's a little off, but the errors have been fixed
Maybe Halopedia has a timeline.
Just read that xD
fossil eagle
You'll need to suspend your disbelief by a lot, though. 343 tried to fill in the holes, but Bungie screwed the pooch with the portrayal of Reach's fall. Especially with the dates.
humble bobcat
Thanks. I never played Reach as at the time I had to sell my Xbox for rent money. XD I’m excited to play it when it comes to the MCC as I’ve heard it’s very good, but as a fan of the books, I often wonder how much of the Halo EU is canon, truly.
versed helm
Honestly, we're looking pretty good on most of it being canon.
Bits of The Flood and First Strike are dicey after recent developments (Fireteam Raven and Silent Storm)
Actually, The Flood's just dicey in general. Written as a game adaptation, not EU, and before a lot of lore came out. Still an awesome read with a gritty and violent military tone.
fossil eagle
Pretty much all of it, though there are some inconsistencies throughout books such as the Kilo-Five Trilogy that should receive a retcon if they haven't already.
But that's what Canon Fodder is for, isn't it?
versed helm
I think a few selective re-prints would do those books good - just give it the ol TFoR definitive-edition once over.
The story in them is worth keeping around.
fossil eagle
Hell, if 343 really felt like it, they could maybe add a "canon-accurate" option for the Reach Campaign that trims off areas that violate the canon while editing the dates between missions down from a month to a few days, maybe a week.
humble bobcat
So the early works are the trickier to reconcile? That makes sense though I do love Fall of Reach. I’m working through Silent Storm atm.
fossil eagle
But that would be pretty superfluous, honestly. Probably a "gross misallocation of valuable resources." if you ask a few people.
I disagree.
versed helm
Enjoy Silent Storm, my man. It's a lovely read - it feels like the earlier works, but it's all 100% canonically indisputable.
And it's a great story on its own.
fossil eagle
Careful not to say the darn-with-an-M-instead-of-an-R word.
This server has achieved peak Christianity.
fossil eagle
Too deep.
fossil eagle
Oh. Ohhhhhh.
Yeah I get it now,
It's still technically wrong though. His aunt was an Evangelical Promessic
versed helm
But, y'know, Silent Storm is good. It has all that lovely Staten-esque game-supportiveness, but it ties it in with a great deal of Nylund-y technical fun. Plus just a dash of that Dietzian brutality.
stable schooner
Honestly Looters I’m not seeing it while the Halo 2 Classic Marines has more protection on his stomach and bottom Back he has less protection on his Hands, Arms and his Legs. @versed helm
versed helm
It helps if you look at all the individual pieces as modular, and likely often mixed-and-matched between units.
humble bobcat
Thanks. Have fun discussing lore. I’ll have to drop in again. This thread seems fun.
versed helm
It's a little silly to picture UNSC body armour as just these complete sets that are always worn together.
Focusing on the chestplate, it's extremely lightweight - analogous to a modern day "bikini plate carrier".
fossil eagle
Halo 2 Anniversary armour is also quite reminiscent of Halo Wars marine gear. One thing to note is the severe lack of groin protection on both of the suits.
versed helm
Easily the most lightweight of any torso-based UNSC body armour.
stable schooner
Which to be fair the classic Halo 2 Infantry Lack
versed helm
Halo 2 Classic have a fully plated two-segment armoured vest.
With chest and abdominal segments.
And inwards-facing padding.
It's extremely practical.
stable schooner
Chest while Covers less looks slightly thicker in the Front.
versed helm
Trust me, I spend a lot of time looking at H2 Marines. They're good.
They also carry a lot of ammunition.
Some of them are covered in ridiculous amounts of pouches.
Halo needs more ammunition being carried.
fossil eagle
cough cough Halo Reach Infantry cough cough
stable schooner
Actually H2A has decently Thicker Chests. I agree Classic has more carry weight
versed helm
Yeah, the chestplate is thicker, that's for sure.
But the abdomen is left totally uncovered.
Getting shot in the gut is, as I understand it, incredibly un-fun.
It's not a place to sacrifice coverage, both for the sake of safety and dignity.
stable schooner
Halo 2 Classic Marines also lack Gauntlets and to be fair Covenant tend to aim for the Chest.
versed helm
The Covenant would logically aim for wherever they can hit you.
stable schooner
Other then the gut I honestly see more protection on the Marine with H2A
versed helm
And I often work with the assumption that nothing the UNSC has that's not titanium-ceramic alloy or energy-shielded will really stop plasma.
So lightweight nanocomposite body armour is probably mainly worn for protection against shrapnel - probably helpful against needlers and carbines, to an extent.
fossil eagle
Limbs are expendable in war. They're not vital and they can be replaced with advanced prosthetics. One hit of superheated plasma to your stomach and you're done for. You'd be lucky to be alive after that, and since the core is a much bigger target than the limbs, I'd argue they should have much less armour on their forearms and forelegs.
versed helm
Right. It's the optimal trade-off between mobility and safety.
If by safety you mean "having a chance".
fossil eagle
Reach's infantry didn't appear to have hard armour plating on the ends of their limbs, but their sleeves and pantlegs had a lot of surface area, so the plasma could just catch onto that and melt it onto their arms and legs instead. Still not a good alternative.
versed helm
Point, though - NMPD police jackets have woven-in fibrous armour of some kind, according to Sadie's Story.
fossil eagle
But then again, Reach is cold and nobody expected a Covenant attack there, so their PDF seems well-equipped for the role they were intended to fill.
versed helm
UNSC combat uniforms are in all likelihood the same way.
Different uniform thickness maybe constitute differing fibrous characteristics. Not necessarily armoured, but other uses.
stable schooner
Also the Classic H2 Marines has about a 50% thinner strip then the chest protecting the Stomach. Most Covenant Weapons cut threw Marines anyway I would prefer gear that cushions the amount of debris hitting me like the H2A Marines
versed helm
While leaving some parts of you completely exposed.
Important parts, I should say.
Hey, well, luckily we won't ever have to make this choice in real life.
I also like H2 Classic Marines because of their sorta gulf war GI vibes.
Which you can see in my pfp, which is from Uprising.
stable schooner
Lack of Groin and Stomach protection with the H2A Marines. Lack of Thighs, hands, Arms, Groin and minimal stomach protection with the H2 Classic Marines
fossil eagle
Quick question: where's the love for armoured chops on marine helmets?
versed helm
Well, they seem to be back in Infinite in some way, judging from the CH252-alike helmet on one of the pelican's chairs.
Personally I'm not the biggest fan.
Reach has the best helmets.
stable schooner
Halo 3 Marines are definitely less armored then both though lol all the protection is on the chest and Shoulders. Reach definitely had the best Helms so nicely protected and rounded.
fossil eagle
I can't imagine how much nicer the Halo games could look if the original textures were recovered and used to generate higher-resolution textures for the game itself.
versed helm
Halo 3 Marines have really heavy vests and unique chestplates.
See, that's the oddity here. Some Marines designs have heavily armoured limbs and very concentrated torso protection, and others are the reverse.
it is important, however, to take into account the fact that each Halo game handles proportions differently.
It's hard to be completely scientific about this until we see them all depicted in a single style.
Which is why I have a lot of hope for 343's philosophy with the Halo 4 Marines.
stable schooner
Yet they leave their Stomachs and Legs completely open definitely less overall protected then both Halo 2 Versions.
versed helm
Their stomachs aren't open.
They're wearing a very bulky vest.
Though extra plating would always be good.
Their pauldrons are an abomination though.
stable schooner
That gives in around the stomach with a far lesser layer and a belt
versed helm
The stomach and groin have a raised segment of brown material.
More coverage, it seems.
stable schooner
Looking right at it you could add a whole other Plate right there
versed helm
Also a discoloured green lower back pad or plate of some kind.
stable schooner
Nothing compared to the extremely thick Chest though.
versed helm
Honestly, the general difference in coverage between H3 and H2 is that the H3 Marines have less protective pauldrons, no thigh plates, nothing on their forearm and also a very prominent vest.
I think what's on the torso is obviously a lot heavier, and what's lost is mainly ancillary.
stable schooner
That and a lighter Camo that looks basically white
versed helm
Thigh plates are nice, and the H3 Marines have some kind of padding there (probably for stowage), but they're not the be-all-end-all.
And forearm armour wouldn't be super useful in the first place. Maybe as protected housing for backup electronics.
But overall, you can't really armour the arm up too much without it getting cumbersome.
From that logic, the forearm plates aren't really armour, imo, so the Halo 3 Marines are still heavier.
And if that's not the case, it's likely they're wearing armour that was designed during the HCW.
So who knows what the story is.
stable schooner
A Plasma Rifle would still tear through that Stomach though and kill the Marine if it hit their Artery in their extremely uh protected Legs
versed helm
We see plasma bolts burning straight through the chestplates used on the H2A armour in the HW intro.
No body armour's stopping that.
stable schooner
Exactly so more Armor on the Chest isn’t a overall gain.
versed helm
But it's still heavier.
But on the other hand, why bother with so much armour at all?
stable schooner
I would rather Wear the equipment both versions the H2 Marines wear.
versed helm
Concentrate what you need to make a difference where it can make a difference, and leave the rest free and easy.
That's why I like H2 Classic and Reach. Same pragmatic philosophy.
But I gotta go now - awesome talk.
stable schooner
Agreed great conversation not enough love given to the Marines.
supple field
I assume it still gives minor protection apart from direct burnout. I mean. 5cm of thick stuffing against plasma is better then direct skin contact
After-all marine aren’t just dealing with Cov. They are still dealing with rebel that could use ballistic weapon.
versed helm
Very true.
Maybe that's why the H2A Marines concentrated armour on their limbs instead of inwardly.
They're experienced light infantry - they know they need to move fast, but they also know that a graze which their armour might actually diffuse will be on an extremity.
So over time that unit (and others like it) have adopted that slightly unusual armour configuration.
strong sage
Soooo , what if instead of the covvies invading earth can unsc manage to beat Scrin from tiberium wars invasion?
versed helm
Well if the GDI managed to handle them
Then I imagine the UNSC probably can too
Similar tech, really, except the UNSC had to get there the long way round because they didn't get a boost from tiberium and also has more naval assets.
strong sage
Oooo yeah i forgot about Naval assets , but supposedly with the appearance of GDI Kodiak at tiberium twilight which one is much more a better ship unsc frigate or Kodiak?
vivid dust
So uh it just occured to me that there are no sleeping Grunts in Halo 4 except in maybe one Spartan Ops mission, but I can't remember which one
does anyone know by any chance?
versed helm
Maybe they put something in their tanks to keep em up xD
feral perch
I suppose that the player never encounters Grunts at a time when they are sleeping.
last anchor
It seemed like a very Bungie style gameplay thing
feral perch
Halo 5 has sleeping grunts.
modest marsh
There seems to be less emphasis on stealth and subversion in 4 and 5
carmine sleet
I would've loved it if there was one mission in Halo 5 where you used stealth against Covenant forces. Like, imagine if they set Enemy Lines at night and you had suppressed weapons and could actually sneak about about
frank coyote
That would be great
carmine sleet
Maybe even have it where you can avoid Phantom spotlights
frank coyote
But the thing I want most s a capital shipp multiplaye battle
Like a special ability is the infinity
lunar spruce
WoWs but Halo
inner basin
I’ve always wanted a stealth Headhunter game. That’s something I think would be cool. Where you have two campaigns that start off as stealth then merge into one later. It’s kinda like the Headhunters short story with there being two teams deployed who each have different missions then they join together near the end and have to exfil before they die. It’d be rich for lore fans as we don’t have much on Headhunters right now.
It would also give us an idea of how Headhunters interact as we know they have a deep bond, and on top of that we’d also know what their armour configuration/customisation would be like, as all we know is that Jonah and Roland were deployed in experimental SPI armour.
abstract zealot
I’ve actually been working on a game concept for something similar for Headhunters after the Human-Covenant War.
inner basin
Is it a story or art or... something else completely?
abstract zealot
Story as well as gameplay.
Well, gameplay features.
Haven’t worked on it in a bit though. Been busy with other stuff.
storm flume
Maybe you can make it a mod when mod tools happen for MCC
abstract zealot
Maybe. I suck at programming though so it would have to be something I’d need a partner with.
inner basin
Sounds cool ExPo. Every since I’ve heard about Headhunters, I’ve just had a fascination with what missions they do as well as what equipment they utilise. Also we do know there are still some Spartan-IIIs in the program, as we know ONI and the Spartan branch retain a “select list of Spartan-III and Spartan-IV” personnel after the Headhunter program went through re-organisation after the creation of the Spartan Operation branch. My quote is off Halopedia btw.
abstract zealot
Yeah. The story that I’m working on follows the story of two Headhunter teams, as the missions both teams go on tie into each other.
inner basin
Yeah that sounds similar to what I was describing on here, and a post I made on Waypoint about a couple of weeks ago.
abstract zealot
My general idea for this story is like a 3 part campaign. There’s the initial campaign that comes with the game and then the next two episodes are like campaign DLCs. This is just the beginning idea of course as this is meant to be the ground work to build off of.
inner basin
I’d rather not have campaign DLC. It ruins the story telling that Halo is usually great with. It ruins the lore that people can get to experience.
tidal junco
Do you guys think that like the story of infinate will be set up in such a way that it could act as a sequel to 3 or a sequel to 5? Because they're saying they want old fans to feel right at home.
gilded mason
I don't see any way that it could ignore what happened in 5, if that's what you're sayin'.
storm flume
It's already confirmed to be a sequel to 5
The thing about appealing to old fans is mostly the art direction I think
Hopefully gameplay and story as well, but that's yet to really be seen
stoic hamlet
I hope story doesn’t go back to H1-3, because those “stories” weren’t stories at all, nor was John a compelling character
gilded mason
Eh, I thought Halo 2 was really good for everything but John.
And I enjoyed his characterization in CE, though 2 and 3 left a lot to be desired on that front.
storm flume
I'm kind of glad they've been fleshing his character out in the games, but some part of me wants good Chief one-liners again.
unique rune
Somehow I never picked up on the (what I assume is intentional) parallel between Chief crashing a Banshee into the Pillar of Autumn and Cortana crashing a Lich into Ivanoff in 4 until my last playthrough of 4's campaign.
storm flume
Oh that's right, that did happen didn't it
warped nimbus
"We're not gonna make it!"
unreal plover
I fee the same Eternal, John’s character is more developed in Halo 4 and on compared to 1-3. Bungle seems to lack at story in game, even looking at Destiny
storm flume
God remember how you had to go onto their website to access the lore cards?
warped nimbus
they do world story, not character story
storm flume
Yeah they do pretty well at world development, characters they rarely focus on
warped nimbus
so it'll be neat seeing 343 focus on characters now, especially after seeing the pilot
scarlet imp
Guys do you think that since the grunts obey cortana, there's gonna be more grunt goblins and grunts with hyper advanced tech
storm flume
There's a possibility but personally I doubt the Created will be incorperating them into their ranks
When they have a galaxy's worth of Sentinels and who knows how many Prometheans
Not to mention all the forerunner tech in the universe to create more
(although I also doubt they'll be composing anybody, it's more likely than conscripting their biological subjects)
versed helm
How long is spartan schlong on average? Is that something that gets altered by the intense training? How about circumcision?
gilded mason
🤔
modest marsh
Please leave
modest marsh
This isn’t appropriate subject matter
modest marsh
That isn’t an aspect explored by or relevant to the program
versed helm
And? Kids are normally circumcised near birth
modest marsh
Why is that of your concern
versed helm
Good trivia and general knowledge about spartan breeding, genetics, and small tidbits of lore
I get it, you dont care that much about halo lore, you dont want to really go in depth, but I'd like theories and lore on spartans
modest marsh
...what?
versed helm
Some people actually care about the lore, some people actually care about trivia, some people actually care about the universe and world building. Others dont. Fine by me
But let's discuss the lore in the lore discussion channel, eh?
last anchor
Speaking of that...
Anyone else notice that Meridian is ~400km less in diameter than Luna, yet somehow has ~1G pull?
Shouldn't it have like, 1/8th Earths, and Spartans should go flying across the landscape?
gilded mason
Really dense or something, I guess? Though I'm not much of a physics guy.
versed helm
Holy sh t yeah man, never really thought of that
storm flume
Yeah that would indicate high density
The core maybe contains rarer elements in much higher numbers
last anchor
I mean they did find a Forerunner Luminary under it. Perhaps the core isn't even fully natrual...
storm flume
Possibly
versed helm
I'd wager that there is more tech than atmospheric physics behind it
last anchor
Its an intriguing thought none the less.
Something to ask Canon Fodder if it ever returns
versed helm
Is minecraft still a thing in the 26th century?
modest marsh
Harvest is similar
last anchor
True enough
versed helm
Tbh, you don't really need to involve any Forerunner tech here
It is entirely, 100% within the realms of possibility for a much smaller planet to have comparative gravity to Earth
Let's not inject more Forerunner wizardry that the UNSC should've been aware of - like the huge amounts of ruins that were always just a little below the surface of wherever they go.
Thank you, @jovial temple, just curious
storm flume
There are some really weird exoplanets IRL
jovial temple
In fact the reason the forerunner - human war started is because a human exploded the the didacts house with TNT in Minecraft
jovial temple
2557.2.15
versed helm
Yeet
Probably depends where you are. Interstellar communications lag and all that.
That is true
I imagine vintage versions of Minecraft are much sought after as antique software
Yeah
The time between the 26th century and now would take us back to the medieval period, and medieval European artifacts are valued.
jovial temple
Interesting to think about
versed helm
Well all medieval artifacts are valued. Not just European ones.
But knights are the coolest so shaddup
jovial temple
I wonder if there are any 21st century era cars or just stuff in general in the 26th century
versed helm
Would apple still be selling the same garbage while lying about build quality and performance?
versed helm
Datapads boi
Well the trucks seen in halo reach on winter contingency seem pretty 21st century
I assume that we've sort of reached the technological endpoint of trucks
I mean warthogs can effectively run off water so there's that
jovial temple
Didn’t know that. They must be incredibly light
versed helm
Also some 26th century cars have suspension that involves grav manipulation tech
According to Battleborn
Oh, no - they strip the hydrogen for fuel.
I'm sure all vehicles are 21st century but with new materials and fuel methods
So theres no point in fixin what ain't broke, if people like the designs we have today
That seems to be the UNSC's approach at large.
jovial temple
Grav manipulation tech can definitely stop the earths core. Surprised no ones attempted that yet
versed helm
Considering what we know about grav manipulation in Halo - at least, the UNSC's tech - you'd need to surround the core.
With whatever it is that generates the field.
It'd be an enormous project.
storm flume
Unsurprisingly, there aren't many people with the knowledge, resources, and willingness
jovial temple
Hmm even if it’s only in the unsc hands that’s incredibly dangerous 🤔
Insurrectionists would be my only guess at attempting such a feat
versed helm
It doesn't seem more feasible than just bombing places
storm flume
I doubt they're coming anywhere near Earth with a project so conspicuous
versed helm
Like, it's an interesting idea but I assume it'd take a huuuuuge, concerted, industrial effort that may or may not involve digging down into the core.
Which may or may not actually be possible for 26th century humans
If you want to terrorize Earth, fling space rocks at it
Or space ships
jovial temple
Considering the covenant preferred glassing planets over that than I guess it must take wayy too much effort and resources
dreamy tulip
What's the topic tonight
storm flume
How to terrorize a planet cost-effectively, I guess
jovial temple
Since there’s grav manipulation tech I had a thought about someone trying to stop the earths core with that tech
dreamy tulip
Emp then take out all the resources then kill families one by one
jovial temple
Flinging rocks seems more effective though
But I’m sure the unsc has something to defend against that
storm flume
I think if we had that kind of technology, the Covenant would not have posed any threat
jovial temple
I was jw but even if they did it wouldn’t be more advanced than the covenants
storm flume
UNSC is barely figuring out ship-sized shields
jovial temple
I was thinking of something that can like deflect space debris or solar flares
Lol true
storm flume
Yeah if you're not describing a giant shielding mechanism, I don't know what you're looking for
modest marsh
The sheer scale makes that unworkable
storm flume
Even Forerunners and Ancient humans didn't have it, otherwise the Flood would have been a much more containable problem
jovial temple
That is indeed true. Theory debunked
Can flood spores survive the vacuums of space?
storm flume
We don't really know if they need sustinence, but in-orbit around a star would expose them to extremely high doses of radiation
Which would slowly break down the bonds inside the cell, I don't care what kind of neural magic they might be made of.
Molecule by molecule would get ripped apart
jovial temple
They always seem to travel by ship (which of course is faster than just floating in space) or via teleporting and I still have some books to read so sorry the noob question lol. Just wondered if they need oxygen or something etc
versed helm
Not that they'd have much to do, though, besides trying to infiltrate an airlock or something
jovial temple
They did originate from precursors so it would be highly likely
storm flume
It's likely they behave like viruses. Minimal activity until contact with living cells
jovial temple
Except they have a single conscience that is capable of learning and communication and has one goal: to consume everything
It’s probably almost always thinking of different solutions to infect living cells
storm flume
Spores probably don't think, they just exist. Their only job is to contact living cells and transform them into flood cells
And then converted neural systems are the ones that do the thinking
jovial temple
But even if you exterminate the gravemind and leave just one spore left. Another one will take its place overtime. It prob doesn’t think but it’s still linked to that conscience
There’s still a precursor left right? What would be really interesting to see is the flood coming into contact with it
My memory is vague but I remember talk of a precursor still around and whoever talks to it becomes insane with madness and kills themselves
storm flume
It could act more like DNA to flood, carrying information from previous generations, doesn't necessarily have to mean a Flood consciousness always exists
In fact if the ancient flood from 100,000 years retained all its knowledge, it wouldn't have appeared to be getting smarter in the outbreak on 04, because it would already be as smart as Ancient humanity and the Forerunners.
Also that precursor you're talking about was the first Gravemind
jovial temple
Oh I see
That’s also what I was thinking about the spores
Like if the gravemind knows it’s coming to an end. It could implement some sort of genetic code into the spore that’s like “go here do this etc”
last anchor
Thats...kind of how it works anyway. If a specific Gravemind is destroyed, a new one forms from raw biomass and it sort of...reincarnates basically
versed helm
I don't see a feasible way for a Gravemind to retain its knowledge without some form of existential continuity.
I'm always pushing the cthulu angle, but it makes sense.
I feel as if there's certain practicalities that would need to be addressed if the continuation of the Gravemind persona and knowledge base was purely rooted somehow in genetics.
Like - is there an explanation for how FSC genes can interpret and store data in such a way that it can be retrieved by a conscious entity? How would the necessary genetic alterations spread remotely between flood organisms?
The assumption is that it's fundamentally rooted in the principles of neural physics (whatever they may actually be), but how those principles work exactly is another unknown and I think it'd be better if they were to be handled in the most grounded way possible.
Playing with ideas about consciousness and existential dimensions is I think more compelling than trying to throw in true psychic stuff, unless it's some kind biological quantum entanglement mumbo jumbo like the rachni from Mass Effect.
storm flume
The way I understand it, neural physics is like another field of the universe, if you understand anything about physics
humble yacht
neural physics could just be the scientific explanation for psychic abilities in the Halo universe
storm flume
It basically is
And also an explanation for how the Halo Array only affects sentient lifeforms
versed helm
Well, yeah. It basically is, though the way I meant psychic was more a directly supernatural thing.
Neural physics is supposed to be rooted in nature, in the Halo universe.
It's there in the name.
humble yacht
if you think of the Gravemind as a type of living computer, then it's ability to be self aware is predicated on its processing power
aka mass
once it reaches a critical mass it becomes self aware, becomes conscious
versed helm
I think in light of recent interpretations raw mass might not be the important part.
I think assimilated intelligence is the key to the Flood's growth.
storm flume
^
humble yacht
as for the information storage, well, the lore has already suggested that precursors live outside normal space time, so it stands to reason that could be the case with the Flood too
versed helm
More or less my point exactly.
humble yacht
and that the Gravemind is simply an avatar for the manifestation of the Flood's will
versed helm
My theory is that a gravemind "form" is a form that's achieved sufficient "computing power" to link up with some kind of existential entity.
storm flume
It could consume an entire planet of animals but if there's no intelligent life, it can't become spacefaring
versed helm
Which, of course, would be the real form of the Gravemind.
humble yacht
I don't think that's the case anymore, whitepaw
if the flood retains its memories from previous iterations of the Gravemind, then the moment a new gravemind is formed, it should still have the knowledge to be spacefaring
it would need access to technology to become spacefaring again, but the knowledge of how to do it is theoretically in every FSC already.
This does seem to be at odds with the original description of flood stages (feral, coordinated, interstellar, etc)
versed helm
I think if the existing outbreak had sufficient intelligence it could become spacefaring in its own fashion. I don't think purely biological ship constructs are entirely out of the question.
modest marsh
What he’s saying is that access to that knowledge is unavailable without intelligence
versed helm
Or something akin to the Klendathu bug's strategy of firing infected space rocks around.
modest marsh
To use halo wars as an example
They need a sufficient tech level before using Gravemind science
storm flume
Btw where exactly did the idea that the Gravemind retains memories from previous outbreaks come from? The Forerunner Saga?
humble yacht
traditionally flood has reached those levels by stealing the tech of others, rather than making it themselves