they could have added so manny things in halo 5
#lore-and-universe
brittle trellis
tough fulcrum
h3 era atleast
tough fulcrum
i don't think many casual players are to invested in the lore anyways, so once people realize that cough frankie cough
brittle trellis
yah
i wish they were halo would be soo cool
if it was more lore based
like being the precursors and fighting the forerunners
or the forerunner human wars
tough fulcrum
well ima be honest
halo might have deep lore but we won't see a forerunner - human war game
ever
brittle trellis
i know. its sad
tough fulcrum
like, halo is aliens vs humans, and in my opinion should stay like that
brittle trellis
yes but i meant that more in the if everyone new the lore and liked it type idea
tough fulcrum
excuse my french
brittle trellis
if it did happen 343 would make it terrible
tough fulcrum
well the problem is not everyone reads lore, you have to understand at first halo was like, so different. it was more MLG based i'd think then anything.
brittle trellis
yes. the lore didnt even come out till after combat evolved
stoic hamlet
Yes it did
tough fulcrum
like i remember back duri- even then no one read it.
brittle trellis
well thats when it was added
stoic hamlet
Fall of Reach was release a month prior
tough fulcrum
i certaintly didn't care about lore till like 2015
brittle trellis
i just found out this year. i love it its so cool
tough fulcrum
yeah the books are a good example of first gen lore
brittle trellis
yup
tough fulcrum
i read the books
but the like original series compared to the current books, is like.
i don't like the new books
too much weird forerunner stuff, ya know?
stoic hamlet
Which ones specifically?
stoic hamlet
Have you read Last Light, Retribution Battle Born, and Silent Storm? Those are all really great
Well they’re part of the Forerunner trilogy, that’s their job, to be about Forerunners
tough fulcrum
i've read the first four halo books
which were like chief and blue team
but it was during a whole new erea
brittle trellis
i havent read any but i understand the lore a lot
tough fulcrum
they released around the time of CE i think
stoic hamlet
Fall of Reach released before CE, The Flood released in 2002, First Strike released just before Halo 2, Ghosts of Onyx released just before Halo 3 was announced
A whole new era? @tough fulcrum I’m not sure what you mean
tough fulcrum
the books back then are way different and less complex as they are now
feral perch
I disagree. Give First Strike, or The Flood, a good read. They have a definite depth to them.
stoic hamlet
Ghosts of Onyx and Fall of Reach as well
fossil eagle
I'm eager to read Greg Bear's Forerunner Trilogy, which I've heard is one of the greatest pieces of media in the Halo Universe. Eric Nylund's Trilogy and William C. Dietz's The Flood are definite recommendations from me, especially with Nylund's attention to detail and understanding of military procedure. Contact Harvest is a good read too, but Jason Jones gets a little heavy on the details in a decent bit of the book.
Then you have the Kilo Five Trilogy. Initially enjoyed the first two books, but my opinion on it soured quickly in retrospect. Lots of problems in those books.
unique rune
too much weird Forerunner stuff
mentions two of the three books in the Forerunner Trilogy
well
you don’t say
Forerunner books
talk about
Forerunners?
tough fulcrum
i wonder why i mentioned those books
really, just read the chat once in a while before you jump on a conversation.
unique rune
I did read it
and I don’t think it’s particularly fair to pick Forerunner-focused literature as examples in that context
stoic hamlet
^^^^
supple field
hmm here i come again for more Question.
It seems that during gameplay. Spartan can hijack Cov Vechicles.
During the ODST game. One of the ODST in Bucks group also has training of using Phantom.
So, should i assume most of the UNSC army has basic Knowledge of operation some COV craft. Or does it just conisder gameplay setting??
Or is it a very Rare trait that only very little UNSC army knows?
storm flume
ODSTs are the elite troopers in the Marine Corps
And Spartans are literal supersoldiers
It'd be more surprising if they didn't have this sort of training
I'd wager a majority of troops don't have this training, but ODSTs and Spartans are like the top 1%
unique rune
ODST also takes place towards the tail end of the war, so I don't think it'd be too out of place for some UNSC troops to have some degree of familiarity with Covenant vehicle operation at that point.
supple field
I see. But if the timeline is around Fall or Reach and battle of harvest. will it be too odd for people other than spartan and ODST to have knowledge about it?
like the level of actullay can try to Run them , not how to blow them up
unique rune
The Fall of Reach was also towards the tail end of the war.
storm flume
Well Fall of Reach covered before, the beginning and near the end of the war, and I think there was one or two bits from the middle as well
But Harvest was the very beginning
No one knew anything about the Covenant
Unless you mean later during Halo Wars
unique rune
When BG said "Fall of Reach" I assumed he/she was referring to the actual battle, not the novel.
storm flume
Yeah I thought that for a slight moment as well but adding "and battle of harvest" made me second guess
unique rune
Huh. So apparently Warfleet mentions something under ONI jurisdiction known as "AZURE MOON"...
Think it might be a research station similar to Argent Moon?
storm flume
Sister station maybe?
I wouldn't think ONI would be so predictable to name multiple stations [color] Moon
But also meta-wise I wouldn't put it past 343 or whoever is in charge of the lore
unique rune
Hm. Would make sense.
Though something that's always bothered me a little is that the UNSC doesn't seem to follow any sort of vessel naming conventions.
storm flume
UNSC just names ships by "oh this sounds poetic"
Lol
For that matter so does the Covenant, but for them it's more scripture-ish
unique rune
It's not even, that, it's just all over the place.
Just look at frigate names.
Some named after battles, some with poetry-like names, others with names that just sound like the writer was thinking "man this sounds so friggin' cool".
Oh, wait, scratch that about anlace not being an actual word...
Apparently it refers to a type of dagger. Interesting.
Guess you learn something new every day.
fossil eagle
Say My Name, Gettysburg, Forward Unto Dawn, Infinity, Iroquois, Savannah, Grafton - and those are just the military vessels.
storm flume
I think it's actually quite fitting that they're all over
A display of humanity's wide interests
Conversely to the Covenant, who are all about their religious symbolism
unique rune
Hm. That is a good point.
stoic hamlet
UNSC Two For Flinching is the best name, change my mind
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure it’s a Marathon or a Destroyer, so yeah it would.
storm flume
Amazing
storm flume
Probably got trashed at Harvest anyways
stoic hamlet
It should have been a destroyer at least
fossil eagle
Oh boy I can't wait to see what comes next for Mendicant Bias. All he's done thus far is be a real downer before he sent John and Cortana to Requiem.
carmine sleet
It's not confirmed that Mendicant sent Chief and Cortana to Requiem, plus, considering they were drifting for just over four and a half years, if he was intentionally sending them there, surely he would put them closer so that they would arrive much sooner
regal belfry
Yeah. I feel like if he wanted them to go to Requiem he did a really crappy job planning
- Have them pull a narrow escape with arbiter to where the ship is damaged
- Have chief on the half without the engine
- Have them drift in space for literal years
- Have them be picked up, analyzed, and sucked into the forerunner gravity well unable to escape
- Profit....?
Lex Luthor's plan in Batman V. Superman would have been more straightforward, less convulted, and have less variables than Mendicant's
carmine sleet
Chief was on the half with the engines, just the engines were useless without the front half of the ship
versed helm
makes you wonder, if the FORERUNNER Slipspace portal from Earth to the Ark was a 1-month trip...imagine how long it took the Arbiter on the Forward of the ship using human tech.
that and....with no engines/reactors, how did the Forward section of the ship even survive transit in Slipspace without being demolished?
the ship was critically compromised after all
carmine sleet
I think it still took a month for Arbiter due to how he managed to get through just before the portal tore the Dawn in half
Obviously, it wasn't a safe trip though
inner basin
I mean surely the Arbiter had some electronic systems online, I mean Chief was able to enter Cryo on the other half.
versed helm
but in 2553 was Human slipspace not slower than covenant and Forerunner Slipspace? It states that many times in the books.
inner basin
The portal wasn’t Human or Covenant slipspace, it was Forerunner. He was likely on that ship for a month with limited electronics to allow him to survive the trip back to Earth
versed helm
I don't recall the final portal being Forerunner
Forward Unto Dawn jumped back to Earth during the destruction of that section of the Ark and Halo Installation, there was no other Slispace portal opened
inner basin
Well it wasn’t the Dawn’s slipspace portal as as the ship was split into half going through the portal. It wouldn’t make sense to be the Dawn’s
It could be an oversight perhaps
versed helm
the dawn could have initiated it prior
that's what it's seeming.
if so, this is a pretty major oversight.
@limpid meadow @obsidian thistle either of you know anything about this?
tardy zodiac
Hm
inner basin
Judging from the portal, it appears to be there before the Dawn was even ready to jump
versed helm
Yes.
versed helm
halo combat evolved
inner basin
By Battleships do you mean “Wet Navy”? If so, the UNSC does have “Wet Navy”.
carmine sleet
@versed helm It was the Ark's portal to Earth, when the Covie Separatists left the Ark, they used the same portal. It remained open until the FUD went through and got bisected as the portal closed, likely due to the Ark's systems detecting the Halo's unstable firing and triggering a failsafe
inner basin
So it was a Forerunner portal. I thought there was.
versed helm
There's still the oversight of the portal itself not remaining open during the battle of installation 00
carmine sleet
@tardy zodiac Your question isn't really clear, are you referring to battleships like the modern day naval ships, like what Beast mentions, or spaceships?
That's more than likely a fault on Bungie that we don't see the portal during the battle
inner basin
I don’t know why it was open when Rtas and the rest of the Covie Seperatists left the Ark but it makes sense for the FUD as they were fleeing from the impending destruction of the Installation-08. It was highly unstable, hence the portal being opened.
Well that’s my guess anyways
carmine sleet
Plus, trying to slipspace jump from the Ark back to Earth would've taken them way too long as well, likely years, even with Covenant ships
carmine sleet
You mean the installation that created it? That's still on Earth and was reactivated between Halo 3 and 4 to prevent an attempt by the Ark's monitor to activate the rings
inner basin
It was left open after that I believe and then it was shut down when Cortana emp’d the planet. Just as a side bit of lore, it’s not actually an emp, it just has the effect of an emp without frying electronics, more just disables them. I don’t know what it exactly is called, but it does not work exactly like an emp.
carmine sleet
Indeed, not sure there is an actual term but it does mean that anything in the air is still doomed, such as frigates and stuff like that above Earth when Cortana attacked
inner basin
Unless you have a Huragok on board
carmine sleet
Indeed, they would have be able to get everything working fast enough that they don't hit the ground before everything is fixed though
unique rune
They’re called attenuation pulse, if I remember correctly.
storm flume
Did anyone else play Halo 3 and then later read Fall of Reach and get a sensation from some of Halsey's quotes?
Or perhaps visa versa with Cortana's
somber wave
Hey I found an image in the general chat and I hope it loads properly here
Kinda off topic but I found it interesting
stable schooner
Arbiter stays on the Dawn how does Halo 4 change.
storm flume
Not a whole lot I imagine
inner basin
Well Swords of Sanghellios wouldn’t have been formed, that’s a start.
storm flume
It's the lore outside of Halo 4 that gets a little screwy
Rtas might take over for Arby
stable schooner
Yeah I meant specifically in Halo 4.
storm flume
Actually, he'd probably die.
Unless Cortana has uncanny knowledge of Sangheli anatomy and the means to modify a cryo tube
inner basin
In Halo 4 Arbiter would be at shock to find out he’s fighting his own people as he thought all the Elites would have sided with him.
storm flume
He'd run out of air pretty quickly
stoic hamlet
Nah he’s not that dumb
storm flume
I think the shock would fade very quickly if he had any at all
stoic hamlet
Even John shouldn’t have been that dumb
storm flume
Sanghelios started their civil war IMMEDIATELY following the Covenant war
stoic hamlet
To assume the entire Sangheili race wouldn’t attack humans
That line was for fans who apparently don’t know how politics and just basic logic work
Which is........sad
inner basin
Well Elites were the ones who questioned why Humans couldn’t join the Covenant after Humanity had put up a heck of a fight
Keep that in mind
stoic hamlet
Yeah but to assume the entire species wouldn’t still want to fight is dumb
Like, that’s not how it works
fair hazel
sangheili arent a monominded culture..
stoic hamlet
Even before the Elites outright joined humanity most were still gunning for humanity during the schism, look at Xytan and his fleet, he had hundreds of ships and no one questioned him when he said “let’s kill the humans”
fair hazel
seriously why do people think all forerunners look the same, make the same, or all sangheili think and do the same same
inner basin
Well all I’m saying is that Arbiter would probably have some voice line in there with why there was this reformed Covenant
stoic hamlet
If he did that would be dumb, John having that line was dumb, the Arbiter isn’t that dumb either
stable schooner
Theirs no reason for the casual player to think not all the Elites aren’t allied with Humanity
stoic hamlet
That’s not how crumbling empires work.
storm flume
Arbiter isn't a casual player LOL
stoic hamlet
An entire species doesn’t just go “yep, we’re with you now.”
stable schooner
Lol cause that’s what’s the average player thinks about EternalCanadian.
inner basin
How is it dumb, Eternal? For Arbiter to at least question this reformed Covenant after the Elites were turned on? It’s not dumb, it’s logical
It has nothing to do with siding with Humanity either
inner basin
We are discussing if the Arbiter was on the Dawn with Chief and was in Halo 4 (for context). Meaning he wouldn’t of known what had happened for the past 4 years
fair hazel
Ah
stoic hamlet
Yeah dude, it’s dumb.
The Arbiter is a statesman alongside a warrior, he’s had to deal with Sangheili politics for most of his life, he absolutely wouldn’t wouldn’t question “why are these Elites attacking me”
Maybe internally he would
maybe
fair hazel
He would wonder who they are, but not be shocked that hes being attacked
stoic hamlet
Yeah
inner basin
I didn’t say about why he’s getting attacked though... Don’t know where you pulled that one from
My point was more along the lines of what Erick said
stable schooner
I mean he expected to go home to Sanghelios with no problems
I’d expect a few lines from him then adjusted to the situation.
autumn gust
I doubt he expected that at all
stable schooner
His lines at the End of Halo 3 in my opinion suggest otherwise
storm flume
Rtas: "I would like to see our homeworld, to know it is safe."
Thel: "Fear not, for we have made it so."
That's what you're talking about right?
runic furnace
The reason why human would think all forerunner looks same, is because that's how many animal minds work. Humans think all chimpanzee looks same, they think all humans look same.
mental nimbus
i mean it's not exactly surprising that people consider elites to be a monoculture when the writers keep playing into the idea
basically all of K5, usage of terms like "Sanghelli Civil War", the cohabitation bits of LoO and the end of envoy that tries to spin the existence of a land border between the two species as a "victory"
it sucks but they don't stop doing it, it's the same attitudes that got us "all the XYZ returned to their home planet"
stable schooner
@storm flume yeah that’s the line
somber wave
The thing I don’t get is why there isn’t any anger or hate from the humans they kinda just shake it off even after the covenant war is there something I’m missing?
storm flume
ONI's been trying to sabotage Sanghelios
They created a GMO of one of their largest-produced crop to be inedible to Sangheili
I think they have it in cold storage for a rainy day or something
stoic hamlet
It’s there but not really brought up, mainly because of the fandom’s love of the Arbiter, I think.
Fans would have an uproar if they were forced to attack him.
So the (logical) sense of xenophobia and fear has been toned down despite the fact it should be at an all time high.
It’s there, just hidden in the novels.
storm flume
The H5 marketing covered a little bit of the xenophobia
storm flume
I think the whole thing about Chief shooting up a peace conference was revealed to be him actually killing xenophobic terrorists that were going to shoot up the conference
stoic hamlet
It was
But that’s kind of what I mean
The xenophobic terrorists were played out to be a relatively low level group when they should have massive support from most of the UNSC public, even if that support is in secret.
After 22 billion people died in a genocidal war which saw two generations grow up only knowing said war, you’d think the xenophobia would be running high.
stoic hamlet
But then we have examples of Sangheili “refugees” living on Earth, joint operations on Onyx, and the like.
Sure, the UNSC is in no condition to fight, but that they’ve taken such action goes against the entire HCW
storm flume
I can see that sort of mentality developing, definitely
modest marsh
We don’t know the conditions those refugees live in tbf
modest marsh
They could be in labor camps for all we know lol
I doubt they are granted basic rights
stoic hamlet
Apparently they can get access to nukes, so presumably they’re not under extremely heavy guard.
stoic hamlet
From Spartan Ops’s first cutscene.
Majestic stopped a Sangheili from detonating a nuke in Brazil, IIRC
storm flume
Ah
modest marsh
Never mind not being closely guarded
How does anyone just acquire a nuke
On Earth
carmine sleet
Could've been a nuke from the black market, Innies are known to have their hands on some
storm flume
Insurgents had entire fleets at one point
stoic hamlet
You’d think as soon as that was found out, even if the UNSC kept it quiet, there’d be major calls for deportation.
stoic hamlet
Yeah they usually cobbled together older ships
storm flume
I thought I remember reading something about them capturing one
carmine sleet
I mean, in the post war era, there's bound to be some abandoned UNSC ships with their nukes still on board, not too hard to imagine that a salvage crew found some and decided to sell them off to the highest bidder, sometimes Innies, sometimes and Elite who wants to blow up Rio.
storm flume
An old memory, could be false
modest marsh
That would be outside of the norm
Just because they had a UNSC warship at one point says nothing about their sum arsenal
Highly unusual to say the least
stoic hamlet
Seriously though, that was just never mentioned again
The nuke on Earth
I really wouldn’t mind a book about the post war politics tbh
carmine sleet
Again, that's why I said abandoned, as in, lost during the war due to the Covenant advance, they're not just going to grab everything while evacuating a ship, are they?
stoic hamlet
Because you can’t just drop stuff like that then never mention it again.
stoic hamlet
Yeah they wouldn’t just abandon it
modest marsh
Leaving undetonated nukes on a ship seems like an awful idea
stable schooner
I don’t understand how the UNSC is even stronger then a single Covenant Remnant group. Loss what 90% of the population
stable schooner
I don’t remember hundreds of Covenant planets getting glassed . Dang that’s still what 60%
stoic hamlet
Human troops have destroyed or set foot on Covenant world’s a few times
But usually not destroyed them
stable schooner
True but not nearly in a comparable amount.
stoic hamlet
Well yeah because the Covenant were just better, stronger, etc
stable schooner
Exactly that’s my point I find the UNSC recovering so quickly after the war a little too implausible to the point their stronger then the Elites apparently
modest marsh
Covenant industry isn’t focused on destroying humans
Humans are far more unified
More than ever, actually
And I don’t think they’re “stronger than the Elites”
The Elites are just fractured to the extent that their strength means nothing when the UNSC barely encounters them in a fair fight because they’re spread out and uncoordinated
storm flume
You know I just remembered something related to the nuke conversation
The US has lost either 6 or 8 nukes to date
modest marsh
The US is also not a surveillance state to the extent the UEG is
It’s like
Impossible for things to not be noticed
AI monitor everything
storm flume
Well they were all also lost in the 50s and 60s
But US was even less of a surveillance state then
stable schooner
Pretty crazy when you think about it nothing Nothing Chief directly did in Halo 2 really help save humanity.
modest marsh
He exacerbated it yes
stoic hamlet
By maybe a few hours
somber wave
Ya grunt rebellions have happened many times before
storm flume
A few hours may have been what was needed to stop 05 from firing
modest marsh
That’s not really comparable to the schism
The grunts were just a labor class prior to their revolt
They didn’t command ships like the Elites or Brutes
somber wave
That’s true
modest marsh
Which is what made the schism significant, because that battle escalated far beyond a mere scuffle between the workers in High Charity
somber wave
Yes not to mention the flood started taking over high charity
Which only made things worse
stable schooner
Heck Miranda did that by being a dummy
somber wave
Lmao
storm flume
Miranda saved humanity by letting her ship get taken over by the flood confirmed
somber wave
Basically
storm flume
I want to see exactly how In Amber Clad got infected but I doubt we'll ever get an official story or anything
storm flume
Is there? I remember watching a video a while back explaining what likely could've happened, but they did specifically say there is no official source
somber wave
Maybe, I don’t recall anything canon about it
Maybe they do need to make an official story
The thing I like about the flood is that they’re more than just space zombies
The lore is really cool
Uh oh phone battery hitting 15 percent
modest marsh
They could have hijacked a Covenant vessel, then boarded In Amber Clad
somber wave
Possibly that’s how they took over a covenant ship on installation 04
Can’t remember it’s name
stable schooner
Well the ship was parked right over the Library.
last anchor
I think they stole a Pelican. They did infect a bunch of Marines
modest marsh
We know the Flood boarded the Truth and Reconciliation
I mean, Master Chief did
You’d think they’d be smart enough to turn off the grav lift
Or shoot them with a pulse laser >.>
storm flume
You know, why the hell was the Truth and Reconciliation just
Sitting there with a 24/7 grav lift?
Is there any reason they had to be 100 feet from the ground instead of 1,000?
somber wave
It got damaged and needed repairs I think
That’s what that green ooze was in Keyes
Fuel
There’s another ship that provided food that got infected I’m pretty sure
stable schooner
Miranda was asking to get killed by parking her only Ship like 10 feet above the Library and sending her Marines aimlessly at the wall and around the Quarantine Zone.
modest marsh
It was coolant, not fuel
The Covenant uses highly volatile deuterium gas as their fuel
somber wave
Ya but it had something to do with the engines
I haven’t played CE in a wile so I couldn’t quite remember
storm flume
Yeah why the hell did they give Miranda another ship after that disaster anyways?
last anchor
Wasnt like she could do anything else. I dont think anyone told her about the Flood, and they had to get the Index. If the Covenant got it first, they could activate Delta Halo (remember this is the incident that first hinted that humans were needed to activate the Forerunner tech)
storm flume
She asked for all records about the first Halo from Cortana, including things she didn't have clearance for, and presumably Cortana obliged
stable schooner
@storm flume Lol good question saying as how she got her entire crew killed.
Only thing she couldn’t prepare for were the Sentinels being stronger then the ones on 04
storm flume
Yeah and apparently she couldn't deduce from that that MAYBE something's up with this ring
last anchor
Well she didnt tell her Marines about what they'd be facing, cause one of them shouts "They are not Covenant"
Like, yeah. No kidding
stable schooner
Heck’s it due to the Arbiter Her, Johnson, Stacker and Banks even survives.
@last anchor lol I know right what a jerk. Here I am just looking at Marines getting attacked by Flood And Sentinels
Shout out to the Marine in the Scorpion who always manages to snipe me in Qurantine Zone.
storm flume
You know I just realized
Miranda was born within days of the war starting, and died within days of the war ending
What a life
last anchor
Barely knew her mom, dad died less than a month before she did.
Yeah.
The Depressing Life of Miranda Keyes, anyone?
storm flume
Minutes even of the end of the war actually
stable schooner
Sad I don’t think she needed to die in 3 her death was pointless.
last anchor
Depends on when you call the end of the war.
The death of Truth is the end of some, others call the destruction of 04B as it.
stable schooner
I’d say the Death Of Truth the Covenant weren’t involved with 04B.
brittle trellis
Halo 6 theory
Cortanas rampency is cured allong with the logic pluage
carmine sleet
I very much doubt they'll do that
And that's not really a theory, it's more wild speculation. Theories need evidence to back them up
unique rune
...That would imply she's affected by the Logic Plague in the first place, which I really hope isn't the case.
last anchor
Prettys ure shes not
carmine sleet
Also that too
last anchor
Its just rampancy. This is a fragment of her after all, one of the rampant ones spun off in Midnight
This is the reason t hat AIs are terminated after 7 years; once they start going rampant, they suffer megalomania and worse.
Unfortunatly for us all, this fragment got dumped into the Domain.
carmine sleet
Indeed, if that didn't happen, allot of things would be happening differently
warped nimbus
She may have a partial logic plague, it took years for mendicant bias to be infected, and even though cortana isn't that advanced, she was still only there for, what, a few months?
but she was certainly not right in the, eh, processor? when she is found in 3
unique rune
Cortana was stuck on High Charity with the Gravemind for just over a month.
I don't think there'd really be any lingering effects of that experience relating to the logic plague, considering she was able to resist the Gravemind's attempts at turning her to the Flood's side.
warped nimbus
not entirely, she's pretty crazy before you get her in H3
unique rune
She's been tortured pretty horribly, sure, but she never gave into the Flood, so...
warped nimbus
who knows really
remote wharf
after a ring is destroyed, do the forerunner towers still emit light signals ?
versed helm
Not sure
inner basin
I’d say it depends on the extent of the damage. I mean the light signals are really for lighting the ring and we were able to do that with Installation-09 in Halo 3 which wasn’t complete. This example is to highlight that if the damage is minimal chances are yes, but I can’t say for sure Dany.
remote wharf
@obsidian thistle thoughts?
iirc they're used for communication, not lighting up the ring
inner basin
Communication can also be for lighting the ring. Example in Halo 2, when the ray is shot up to start firing the ring and when a second bolt is fired up to cancel the lighting of the ring
remote wharf
i'm trying to get to infinite's trailers rings, where it shoots in the first trailer, but not the second
thinking wether they still do it after it's been blown up or not
but i'm starting to think the first trailer has no actual lore value
inner basin
Well to that extent of damage it’s hard to tell. I don’t really see how it would be effected though, and to back that up the ring still has the blue lights on around the outside indicating it’s still partially active
obsidian thistle
Well is the ring "destroyed" or just heavily "damaged". Thats the big question.
remote wharf
infinite campaign intro
inner basin
We can’t tell if it is destroyed or damaged from that intro. It appears to only be damaged though
remote wharf
so one chunk broken off from one side only
warped nimbus
we can see most of it, and the holo in the end shows the rest of the ring intact
obsidian thistle
One could assume the towers still try to do stuff if they aint destroyed. Their purpose hasnt been fully explained weirdly despite being the focal point in a few locals.
remote wharf
so it's just fancy light fountains
inner basin
I would like a fully detailed explanation of how they work other than they communicate
remote wharf
sorry but why does the ring light up LIKE AN ENTIRE CITY #483759756566069258
obsidian thistle
Designed that way probably. Or the Monitor liked it.
inner basin
Forerunner architecture I guess?
inner basin
Looks pretty dull without the lights. I like the aesthetic with the lights
remote wharf
oh and it's copy pasta, gee
guess 343 didn't go too hard on the details outside chief armor
obsidian thistle
Or they aint final.
obsidian thistle
The AR in the trailer is missing all the decals.
Seriously look closely at it. Zitch on it atm bar the ammo count
inner basin
Speaking of a Reach styled AR, why is there a somewhat removable ammo counter? Well at least why does it appear like that?
modest marsh
Because it presumably can be replaced with something else
unique rune
I'd imagine the original intent behind the MA37's design was to make it look clunkier and less refined.
feral perch
It's skeletal, for sure.
unique rune
The way the MA5's cowling is kinda segmented makes me think it would still be removable.
feral perch
And much more visually appealing than an MA5, imho.
inner basin
It’s mainly the detachable ammo counter, not the weapon shape itself
remote wharf
keep in mind that the "making of E3 2018 trailer" had H3/4/5 style AR
inner basin
I’ve seen some Twitter posts that even point out some CE similarities too
Mostly around the front visor area
somber wave
I’m pretty sure that this new AR isn’t a placeholder
It’s too different
I think it’s the new AR
radiant sphinx
Does anyone think Chief may have or may have had cancer? Considering he’s in space (cosmic rays) and around Covenant weaponry a lot (which IIRC gives off a decent amount of radiation) would it be plausible to think he has had cancer and it’s at least been surgically cured considering the AI in Heart of Midlothian refers to Baird’s cancer as a primitive ailment.
versed helm
I would think spartan 2 augmentations would stop them from getting most diseases/sicknesses
humble yacht
How prevalent is cancer even in the 26th century?
modest marsh
Seems rare and easy to treat if caught early enough
warped nimbus
His suit probably shields him from most
modest marsh
Well for the 27 years prior to getting a suit with shields he relied on just the armor itself
Which well, does about as good as he’d realistically need it to
A centimeter or two of titanium goes a long way
humble yacht
depends on the type of radiation
inner basin
Chances are he wasn’t around plasma weaponry early in the war when he first first got the armour as he didn’t know how to work them. But he wouldn’t have had shielded Mjolnir armour until around September 2551, near the tail-end of the war. Maybe he didn’t use plasma weaponry too much as he just loves his ARs
torpid temple
Even MkIV Mjolnir, heck probably any vacuum rated suit the UNSC had early war, would have had significant radiation shielding
inner basin
Just because it’s vacuum rated doesn’t mean it has radiation shielding. I’m not saying Mk.IV doesn’t have radiation shielding but I couldn’t find anything on Halopedia.
Fun side speculation is that I don’t think ODST BDUs have radiation shielding as Baird (who was an ODST on The Heart of Midlothian) had cancer, likely from the radiation from plasma weaponry/sun gamma rays.
A fun fact to top this off is that Elites naturally built an immunity to the radiation given off their plasma weaponry due to forced evolution, more than likely.
versed helm
@inner basin Plasma and Radiation are not the same
inner basin
Plasma gives off radiation does it not?
versed helm
no
inner basin
I also didn’t say they were the same
versed helm
Plasma is ionized gas particles, where the electrons separate from the nuclei
Radiation is electromagnetic photons
inner basin
I thought plasma gave off electromagnetic radiation though
Does plasma give off radiation?
Google that ^
versed helm
the plasma bursts in halo are electromagnetically shaped, but the plasma itself does not
from your own search
it's not radiation in the sense you're thinking.
inner basin
I don’t see that from my own search. But I’ll give it a read if I have the time
versed helm
plasma's radiation is basically heat radiation
the Radiation that would cause cancer/sickness would be EM Radiation
inner basin
Well anything above the temperature of zero emits thermal radiation. But we are talking about plasma something that can burn through Mk.IV titanium armour. As for how Baird got cancer I’d guess cosmic rays then?
versed helm
plasma emits thermal radiation, not EM radiation.
but the two aren't mutually exclusive, sure.
It also depends on what exactly is converted to plasma in covenant weapons, as it seems that there's several different ionized elements
inner basin
Well it is futuristic, maybe something a bit more than the stretch of Science we know
Basically made up is what I’m saying
versed helm
Halo somewhat still follows science pretty closely
inner basin
Yes but it also uses creative freedom to make it entertaining
And stretches the “boundaries” to do so at times
versed helm
yes, but it doesn't change the laws of physics on basic things like that
inner basin
Well we don’t know if slipspace travel is a real thing, at least to my knowledge. That could most definitely change the laws of physics, particularly with Forerunner portals
versed helm
slispace operates on the same theoretical properties of "wormhole" travel
so it has a grounding in reality
inner basin
That’s based on theory though, not practicality
ashen wharf
During human covenant war what was humanity’s strongest ship?
Know post war it was infinity
stoic hamlet
Probably the Punic class
ashen wharf
That’s the pre infinity super carrier right?
stoic hamlet
Yis
versed helm
I said that plasma weapons use shaped plasma
clearly they're going to have EM radiation if used
it also never explicitly states that radiation was from the plasma
modest marsh
It’s a pointless distinction if we know for a fact Covenant plasma inherently causes radiation sickness don’t you think?
Their weapons do
In Mona Lisa, the Covenant are mentioned to have endured a forced evolution to increase their resilience against radiation from their own plasma weapons
versed helm
yes, again, read prior
plasma is shaped by Electromagnetic fields, otherwise it disperses.
that's a fact even in our atmosphere
modest marsh
I realize that, but it’s not like energy shields emit radiation
versed helm
we don't know how covenant weapons work even still.
modest marsh
The volatile nature of plasma weapons specifically is what causes radiation sickness
versed helm
energy shields aren't EM-based
modest marsh
They are?
versed helm
not inherently
modest marsh
It’s definitely described as much as one point
It’s the same principle, the particles just aren’t superheated
Instead it’s a thin barrier that’s directed around the wearer or ship or what have you
versed helm
yeah, even reading on it, it's definitely not inherently EM-based
modest marsh
He stepped onto the platform that had held the MJOLNIR armor. The pillars flickered on and glowed a brilliant yellow. The pillars started to spin slowly around the base of the platform. The Master Chief felt a static charge tingling in his extremities. The glow intensified and his helmet’s blast shield automatically dimmed. The charge in the air intensified; his skin crawled with ionization. He smelled ozone.
It’s describing the same ion-particle shaping that’s being done with plasma weapons
versed helm
electricity =/= plasma
electric currents are what cause oxygen to ionize into ozone
not EM radiation nor plasma
modest marsh
Okay but energy shields aren’t just electricity
versed helm
advanced defensive technology making use of a field of energized particles that wraps around a surface```
that's just directed particles.They excite a layer of particles shaped by some sort of field, almost definitely electromagnetic, to repel objects and forms of radiation
It’s based on Forerunner hardlight technology is it not?
versed helm
yes, but you're directly linking EM-radiation to all EM fields
they arent always found together
modest marsh
I’m linking it to the technology available to the Covenant
It would stand to reason if they can shape superheated ionized particles, and energy shields are shaped ionized particle fields, they are using the same means of doing that in a different application
versed helm
You're trying to equate infrared to gamma, basically
opposite ends of the photonic spectrum, adversely different effects
both are EM-based
modest marsh
If I’m not mistaken the shields are even described as plasma shields at one point, though that may have been in reference to brute shields specifically which I don’t know if they are meant to function the same
I’d have to check
versed helm
if you find it, source it directly
modest marsh
Like I wouldn’t?
I will grant that perhaps that may not be the most accurate statement either because that’s obviously a rare description, but I digress
versed helm
very little is known about both energy shields and covenant weapons in general
I'm just waiting for humans to grasp the understanding of hardlight
inner basin
As if plasma and energy shielding wasn’t hard enough to get a full understanding of
feral plover
Lol nobody can ever agree in this channel
warped nimbus
I see more arguments here than actual conversation
inner basin
It’s because people like to put out the correct information
inner basin
Those arguments are usually because we don’t have full details on said piece of lore
warped nimbus
so why argue on it?
no one will be right there
inner basin
Well it’s mere speculation based on what we know in game and real life (as Halo’s Sci-Fi is based on real life Science)
warped nimbus
I guess
blazing fossil
Are there still Precursors outside of the Milky Way?
storm flume
Unknown
Forerunners think they wiped them out, but Precursors were supposedly way more advanced than they ever were
inner basin
Chances are there is, but we really can’t say for sure
Also the Forerunners didn’t kill all of them, some turned to dust to preserve themselves but the dust became corrupted and when humanity found this dust, that was corrupted, and fed it to their pets, their pets were basically infected and began infecting humanity, starting the flood. But yes Precursors were way more advanced than Forerunners
storm flume
Yeah which is why money would be on yes, there are still precursors out there
inner basin
(It’s also ancient humanity I’m talking about above)
blazing fossil
I mean, it's kind of also hard to believe that such a godly race only spanned the Milky Way
storm flume
If there were survivors left to be turned into the flood there surely could've been survivors to escape to Andromeda or something
inner basin
I believe the Precursors in our galaxy are dead (as the Halo arrays) but the ones outside the Galaxy would be fine as the array doesn’t stretch that far
blazing fossil
Fair enough
steep bridge
@inner basin however it does get pointed out a lot that the overlapping fields of the Halo Array allowed the effect to extend far outside the galaxy, hence why the flood fleet surrounding the greater ark was destroyed, it's stated in Halo Silentium also that Path Kethona was also cleansed by firing of the Halo array however I can't remember if that was done prior to the main firing by the Iso Didact
fossil eagle
I hope the Yonhet receive a redesign so they don't just look like a man in a costume for the rest of Halo's existence.
tulip grail
I’m wondering: in the aftermath of the war with the covenant. What steps and lessons did the UNSC take with their navy in the years of peace that followed?
Obviously there’s the Infinity but it’s only one ship.
fossil eagle
I'm not too sure, but I know that energy weapons were a big point of intrigue for Cortana when she optimised the projectors on the Ascendant Justice in First Strike.
Do UNSC vehicles have any non-railgun or coilgun energy weapons in Halo Wars 2?
carmine sleet
The Condor Gunships have both Railguns and Spartan Lasers attached
The UNSC made allot of advancements in terms of their ships and weapons, faster communications, some ships have shielding and stuff
like that @tulip grail
tulip grail
Sounds improved survivability.
UNSC warships were very vulnerable to plasma torps.
Hopefully the coming generations of pilots, crew and officers will be up to date on tactics, procedures and strategies after the war.
inner basin
Guys you can’t forget about the Autumn-Class Navy Ships that were constructed after the War. They are similar to the Infinity in that they have energy shielding technology. I also believe the internally-docked Strident Frigates in the hull of the Infinity also have energy shielding, but I’m not sure if it’s all of them.
unique rune
Stridents are designed to be fitted with energy shields, but not all of them are, if I recall correctly. Broadsword fighters are a similar case, I believe.
tulip grail
How effective are shipboard energy shields against plasma torpedoes?
Spartan shields are roughly equivalent to Elite shields.
modest marsh
No they aren’t
The Mark V’s were described as an improvement over Jackal shield technology
Point defense gauntlets are well established as being far more resilient than the personal shields used by common assault troops between the lower ranks of Elites and Brutes
feral plover
@tulip grail From what we've seen, they deal pretty extensive damage to a UNSC shield. Plasma rips straight through most of it
lunar condor
Id guess it depends on the ship, i imagine the infinity has much stronger shields
I wonder if the UNSC troop weapons will eventually be energy based only
storm flume
Decades down the line maybe
But I think projectile weaponry will always have its place
I think they'd focus on making magnetic propulsion viable for all types of firearms before they start introducing plasma weaponry
warped nimbus
yea, because their MAC cannons have been the most effective weapon against covenant shielding
inner basin
@unique rune I know that the Strident-Class heavy frigates do have energy shielding, what I was saying is that I think some (not all) that are docked inside the Infinite do not for some reason. I could swear I read somewhere that they weren’t (but I could just not be remembering correctly).
tulip grail
I read Fall of Reach recently.
MAC shots seem to take one or two to bring down ship shields.
Once it’s down, it’ll depend on the displacement of the covenant ship being targeted.
tulip grail
Except the missiles don’t do very well against point defences and shields.
A well placed MAC could take out the bridge or CIC or vital areas.
stoic hamlet
They’re timed to hit after the shield pops.
tulip grail
It’ll take more to stop larger ships.
stoic hamlet
Then all they need to worry about is the pulse lasers.
tulip grail
Shields come down whenever the plasma cannons fire.
stoic hamlet
Yes, but they’re not down for more than a few seconds
tulip grail
Problem is that the UNSC ships are defenceless against plasma torps.
stoic hamlet
If the shields are overloaded however they’re down for a while
Yep
One torp can kill a ship
tulip grail
Shielding would be a boon for the UNSC navy.
Tactics and strategies to defeat covenant ships too.
Jacob Keyes did some crazy flying with the Iroquois.
stable schooner
Since when are Spartan Shields stronger then Elite Shields, Elite Minors sure but Majors and above have always had shielding equal to or higher then Spartans.
stoic hamlet
Lore wise or game wise? @stable schooner
Because lore wise Spartan shields are absurdly strong
stable schooner
Gamewise lorewise @stoic hamlet If Spartans were suppose to have the strongest shielding possible Zealots and other high ranking Elites wouldn’t appear in Halo with better Shields every game to date.
stoic hamlet
Gameplay =/= canon
stable schooner
Game Lore> Book Lore
stable schooner
Then Newest lore >Old lore
stoic hamlet
Also not really how it works
Unless it’s been flat out retconned it’s as good a canon as the newest books
stable schooner
Show me the line that says spartan shields are superior to High Ranking Elite Shields.
stoic hamlet
Show me the example that an Elite shield can tank a 30mm HE burst from an autocannon
Or barely drops a hair’s width from a dozen plus MA5’s firing with no rounds missing.
Both of those are from chapter 27, The Fall of Reach
gilded mason
Or barely drops a hair’s width from a dozen plus MA5’s firing with no rounds missing.
Think you forgot some of that part.
I just reread it
Here's three bullets hitting him:
A three-round burst ricocheted off the MJOLNIR armor’s energy shield. The shield’s recharge bar flickered a hairbreadth.
Now with three people shooting:
The three remaining Marines opened fire—spraying bullets in a full-auto fusillade. Bullets pinged off the Master Chief’s shield. The shield status indicator blinked and dropped with each bullet impact—the sustained weapons fire was draining the shield precipitously.
So it actually did a whole lotta damage to his shielding
stable schooner
Yet the superior Mk6 Shields were taken down from a single blast of 343s Beam. Arbiter is shown taking a full barrage from dual Plasma Rifles without losing his Shields. Wow nice your citation didn’t help your stance thanks @gilded mason
ashen wharf
@stable schooner I agree with you
Spartan shield will drop from single sniper shot while zealots can take multiple
Not saying there Shields are weak far from it.
Just elite majors and above have = or stronger shields
fickle holly
@stoic hamlet During that course, chief wouldn't have survived without Cortana.
gilded mason
Show me the example that an Elite shield can tank a 30mm HE burst from an autocannon
For this one, I could only find that John realized he got hit after-the-fact. It makes no mention of how many bullets impacted him:
Two more grenades and the automated guns were out of commission. He noted that his shields had dropped by a quarter. He watched the status bar refill. He hadn’t even known he had taken hits. That was sloppy.
fickle holly
"The Master Chief wasn’t about to wait and see if those chain-guns had a minimum-depth setting. He had no intention of crawling across the field and letting the chain-guns’ rapid rate of fire chip away at his shields."
Hmmm
stoic hamlet
admittedly I still don’t think we can take cutscenes as canon
stable schooner
@stoic hamlet sorry I wasn’t actually trying to talk trash just annoyed your source told a different story.
stoic hamlet
Unless you want to state the Locke v chief fight is accurate to how Spartans would actually fight
fickle holly
In a lot of cutscenes, they ignore shields.
stoic hamlet
I’m just saying in general, what happens in the games isn’t canon
And IMO can’t be taken as canon
Unless you want to tell me a Plasma pistol is one of the weakest weapons ever.?
stable schooner
I can’t ignore cutscenes where Shields do work . If those same ranked Elites are designed to be that strong in every single Halo game I take that shield strength as Canon.
stoic hamlet
I don’t think we can
obsidian thistle
Cutscenes are weird but canon. They are one of the few things bar exceptional scenarions that are 100% canon that we know about
stoic hamlet
Unless we then take how the weapons react to them as canon.
gilded mason
Cutscenes are weird but canon
Weird's a good word for that...
stoic hamlet
A zealot shield might be stronger, yes, but its values are different to how it would actually be in the lore.
That’s what I mean
obsidian thistle
Halo: Reach cutscenes for example has the weird difficulty shielding issue xD
Where shielding is defined by the difficulty.
So in easy Zealots may lose their shields. But in Legendary/Mythic they dont.
stable schooner
I don’t see why a Zealot who are usually Fleet Masters And Field Masters in charge of entire covenant operations wouldn’t have shields stronger then a Spartan with the Covenants superior tech.
stoic hamlet
Zealots are separate
They’re not fleet or field masters
They’re part of a separate ministry entirely
They can be given those positions, but they don’t usually hold them
stable schooner
Zealots are a class. Thel Vadam was both a Zealot and Supreme Commander
stoic hamlet
No, they’re a special branch
stable schooner
Every Zealot except in Reach are in a command positions their not a special branch
The Lore on Zealots in and the Cutscenes in the classic trilogy have Zealots always as Commanders
stoic hamlet
They’re not part of the traditional military
They’re like the Jedi or Darth Vader, kind of
obsidian thistle
Zealots are their own "Branch" they dont fall under the same system as the other Fleets.
Rangers are also weird as all are volunteers.
stoic hamlet
^^^
obsidian thistle
However Zealots do get Command positions. Its not like they cant have duel positions
stable schooner
Literally says Zealots even have their own Command position their always encountered as Commanders in the Classic Trilogy
stoic hamlet
Except they aren’t commanders, not usually.
They can have dual positions but that’s not usually their role
stable schooner
Majority of the Covenant Zealots we encounter in Game and Lore are Commanders. Thel Vadam, the Field Marshall, the Zealot in Uprising . Literally every time a Zealot Appears in game as a foe in the Classic Trilogy. Halo 2 even has specifically Designed moments where Zealots only appear flanked by Ultras.
stoic hamlet
Source it
obsidian thistle
The tldr version is. Covenant military aint like ours and 343i on record (circa 2016) as saying they are still working out the kinks essentially.
Shame Ground Command died. We would have had a great overview then.
stoic hamlet
GAME =/= CANON
stable schooner
If it’s Not contradicted I say yes it is.
Thel Vadam was a Zealot that’s not game
stable schooner
He literally was
stoic hamlet
He took on a role similar to the team encountered at the Visigrad station
Nowhere was it stated he was a commander at that time
(To my knowledge)
stable schooner
He’s shown in the H2A terminals in his Zealot Armor leading Covenant forces
stable schooner
H2A Anniversary cutscenes Canon>Old Bungie era Books
stoic hamlet
Additionally Jai isn’t wearing Spartan IV armour
343 produced Cole Protocol
It was their first book IIRC
stable schooner
You just say what ever supports your case as Canon
obsidian thistle
Note: Jai wore Mark IV armor.
stable schooner
Majority of Lore has Covenant Zealots as Commanders. Zealots are a class you can’t change my mind.
stoic hamlet
......well, yeah, that’s how this works.
If I had the book with me I’d provide sources, unfortunately I seem to have lost it, which is.....aggravating.
@obsidian thistle he did
But the armour depicted on the cover and in the terminal is different
That’s what I mean
obsidian thistle
Who says the Spartan on the Cover is Jai ;)
obsidian thistle
And eh nope. We never seen that set before.
stoic hamlet
You know what I mean though, surely
obsidian thistle
So we cant even say its GEN2.
stoic hamlet
No but visually it looks it
Obviously it isn’t
But like how 343 didn’t want to make Mark IV models for the intro to H4 I think it’s a similar thing here
obsidian thistle
Well we actually have never seen any of the Armor Jai wore before
Bar in that terminal.
Zero parts in my notes are stuff in the games atm
abstract zealot
Jairs armor in the terminal resembles that of the body of recruit armor in H4 and H5, and the helmet of decimated/Mk V [B].
obsidian thistle
Resembles sure. But there is very much a deviation ;)
abstract zealot
I’m aware, which is why I said resembles.
stable schooner
Anyways Though I don’t believe Spartan Shields are superior to High Tier Elite Shields .
stoic hamlet
I don’t know if it’s actually been stated, thinking about it
The power of high-tiered Sangheili shields
All we have is the funky gameplay values
Which obviously aren’t canon
obsidian thistle
Its never been stated. All we have is off hand stuff about skills and so on. And some experimental stuff on both sides.
stable schooner
Every single Game has them as stronger I take it as Canon
stoic hamlet
You really can’t though
abstract zealot
They don’t directly say the power, but in Halo: Reach when Noble Team is talking to Halsey for the first time they mention that the armor and shield strength matches that of the Zealot class
stoic hamlet
At least not how the game depicts them
obsidian thistle
Well gameplay doesnt equal canon. Thats the common held truth as CE is very much in Flux due to Halo: The Flood.
stoic hamlet
Like if their shield values in game are canon, then so is how weapons operate, which goes against every piece of established lore to date.
stable schooner
How so?
stoic hamlet
Because a Plasma Pistol can kill/wound with near misses in the lore, but can’t in the games.
The Plasma rifle can blow off limbs
Etc
abstract zealot
Example is covenant plasma weapons don’t lose power/charge nearly as fast as it does in lore.
obsidian thistle
Like no part of CE/CEA gameplay wise is set to a difficulty. Otherwise we have Elites in one chapter be easy difficulty, and in others normal and heroic. Its weirdly interesting to compare.
stoic hamlet
Also how grunts and jackals deal with bullets
Like there’s no “lore accurate” difficulty
It’s not really possible
obsidian thistle
Thats kinda the issue with using gameplay as a canon indicator. Difficulty will always pose some oddities to you that cant be ignored.
stoic hamlet
I do think it would be interesting though, if 343 tried to make a game with as lore accurate weapons and shields (and how things react to them) as possible.
stable schooner
Ok Arbiter vs Forge as an example he yanked those rounds and multiple Magum shots to the hand. No matter the difficulty Higher ranked Elites have stronger Shields
abstract zealot
It would actually have to make for some GG strategizing if they made gameplay more lore accurate.
fickle holly
@obsidian thistle Did you add in the info about Elites using hospital ships?
stoic hamlet
That’s not how this works, lol
abstract zealot
Who are you referring to Canadian?
obsidian thistle
Not yet. I have a page in mind however @fickle holly I just need to get it all set up for it.
abstract zealot
My name?
fickle holly
Thank you ❤
gilded mason
@obsidian thistle
Good, good.
stoic hamlet
wow I’ve just confused everyone
stable schooner
Consistent gameplay should be taken as Lore if it doesn’t contradict outside material
fickle holly
I'm glad Denning pretty much finished a 10+ year argument.
gilded mason
Indeed
stoic hamlet
You and @stable schooner Have nice names yes @abstract zealot
abstract zealot
Oh thanks lol
stoic hamlet
But that’s the thing, as @obsidian thistle mentioned......gameplay isn’t consistent
stable schooner
Higher Elites having stronger shields is consistent
stoic hamlet
We can’t cherry pick things that make sense while discarding the ones that don’t.
stable schooner
That’s literally what you’ve been doing all debate no offense
stoic hamlet
None taken, but How so?
I don’t believe I’ve cherry picked from one source while discarding other parts of that source.
That doesn’t make sense to do
obsidian thistle
Anyway this has gone on long enough. Lets move on shall we. Agree to disagree.
Lets talk about the best Character ever. Spock the cat.
stoic hamlet
He died right?
obsidian thistle
Spock has not been confirmed as dead or alive.
obsidian thistle
Last we saw they were alive on the Bridge of the ship by permission from Cutter.
abstract zealot
Oh rip we moved on lol. I was shortening a clip from Reach cutscenes regarding Zealot shield strength.
obsidian thistle
Yea we moved on.
stoic hamlet
Yeah we kind of had to, no one could agree
obsidian thistle
;) Spock is more fun.
stable schooner
Who has the more important role in Halo 2 Arbiter or Chief? Would you say Arbiter had a Locke level presence in 2?
In a story matter I mean
obsidian thistle
Chief semi-killed Regret. Thus starting the Schism essentially.
abstract zealot
I’d say towards the beginning Chief was more important but later on Arbiter became more important.
obsidian thistle
Thats kinda the thought I was having.
stable schooner
Schism has already started though by Truth killing Regrets forces on Earth
Regret was suppose to die and I assume he would have either way
abstract zealot
If I remember correctly they killed them after the Schism started.
stable schooner
ODST is before the rest of the Schism.
abstract zealot
Yep yep. Just remembered
stable schooner
I’d say once Arbiter arrives on the Halo he is the more important Character but still before that in Oracle he took 343 guilty spark thus allowing the Covenant to discover about the Library.
humble yacht
Arbiter has a more critical climax
So by that, I'd say that his arc is more narratively important
stable schooner
Man I every time I think about Halo 2s Story I think of the UNSCs incompetence and getting stomped in it.
Honestly game wise i might say the 343 UNSC has pulled its weight more.
obsidian thistle
Funnily enough you can remove Chief from most events now lol.
Bar saving Cairo of course
stable schooner
Bungie definitely did a good job for me of making me think the UNSC had no chance. Chief destroys a massive fleet in First Strike. Does little to stop the still coming Covenant invasion. Heck I’d say the Covenant defeated the Covenant.
stoic hamlet
the books weren’t technically bungie
They weren’t fans of the EU, IIRC
But yeah, there’s definitely a sense of desperation in the early stuff
stable schooner
I meant Halo 2 I was just using First Strike as a example of Chief not saving the day
Cortana”Thats the largest Covenant Fleet I’ve ever seen”
Bungie definitely took a risk by having our former enemies be the heroes of the day
obsidian thistle
Twas interesting.
stable schooner
It definitely worked for me turned me into an Elite Fanboy.
Now the Brutes just need some love
storm flume
Do people not like the Banished and Atriox?
I know they're enemies and all but I find them really cool in a sort of way
stable schooner
Their not fleshed out enough in the game for my liking though. Pavium and Vortus were an improvement.
unique rune
@inner basin Sorry for the extremely delayed reply, but I don’t believe it’s known if all of Infinity’s sub-vessels are fitted with shields, though I do remember Warfleet or some other text mentioning that Stridents in general aren’t all fitted with them.
inner basin
@unique rune I believe I read it on Halopedia. We know Stridents in general have energy shields, but I’m not sure if all the Stridents stored in Infinity’s hull are energy shielded
unique rune
Yeah, I don’t believe it’s ever been specified if her sub-vessels are shielded.
I would think they most likely are, but I don’t recall anything official stating or showing it explicitly.
stoic hamlet
I’ll remember for next time 😛
fair hazel
ÈBungie definitely did a good job for me of making me think the UNSC had no chance. Chief destroys a massive fleet in First Strike.È not bungie as it was stated, also it wasnt only john. the other parties played an important role. the other spartans, his family
it doesnt say that in general they arent fitted, just that some arent yet fitted as production isnt as quick as demand basically. also it should be assumed i'd say. and for infinity, especially considering its supposed to be the, at the tip
inner basin
Don’t forget Danforth I think he was the high ranking sailor there, was he not. Well whoever was the Captain of the Gettysburg/Ascendant Justice was, they definitely deserve credit for sacrificing themselves.
blazing fossil
So what was John's age by the time of his awakening in Halo CE?
stoic hamlet
Biological or actual @blazing fossil
blazing fossil
Both
stoic hamlet
Actual is 41, IIRC.
Biological could be anywhere between early 20’s-mid 30’s.
Remember Johnson was 84 when he died
blazing fossil
I'm trying to do the math based off of his wiki page but I can't account for when he was frozen because I don't know how many times he was and for how long
Yeah, thanks
stoic hamlet
Np
inner basin
I would say he’d be way higher than in his 20’s. He’d more be in his mid-thirties (at least)
stoic hamlet
It depends really
inner basin
I know you did say mid-thirties too btw
stoic hamlet
Yeah. I’d say early to mid-thirties
versed helm
Spartan-II's are kept in cryo during extended downtime
stoic hamlet
Everyone is @versed helm
versed helm
He'd be in mid-30s most likely
spartan-II dont have too much downtime other than training
stoic hamlet
If you’re on a ship in slipspace you’re in cryo
versed helm
so "vacation" for them is cryo sleep typically
inner basin
He is regarded in Halo 4 as an “ageing Spartan” by Del Rio. I know Del Rio is quite out there with his phrases and very hostile towards the Chief but it could have some weight to it. The connection is that H4 was set only 5 years or so after Halo CE
versed helm
unlike other personnel. And I wasn't referring to slipspace travel, just in general
stoic hamlet
Yeah I get you, just, S-II’s aren’t special in that regard
versed helm
I think it's changed since spartan's became more common
inner basin
I mean there is like 500+ S-IV personnel
versed helm
if there's extended downtime otherwise, they'd likely be put in cryo
inner basin
God knows how many S-III Gammas are active too. I’d say between high 200s to 300. (In case some died near the end of the war or died after).
stoic hamlet
AFAWK, all of them aside from those 7 MIA on Onyx @inner basin
But yeah it’s possible some were killed
versed helm
we need more updates on S-III
inner basin
I’m kinda throwing some numbers around to cover as many scenarios as possible Eternal
stoic hamlet
But I think that unlikely, myself
I get you
I agree, we really do need updates, especially on Gamma
inner basin
And yes we do 100% need more on S-IIIs, Dark. I’ve made a Waypoint post about it too and we are not the only ones with this viewpoint.
stoic hamlet
That’s 320 of the scariest Spartans ever produced that we just don’t know about
blazing fossil
I thought S-III's were relatively "normal" soldiers compared to II's and IV's
inner basin
Yeah S-III Gammas are for sure scary. I picture that scene of Dante in my head with organs hanging out and he’s like “Sir, I think I’ve been nicked.”
stoic hamlet
Nah, IV’s are normal compared to II’s and III’s
The armour puts them on par but without it they’re nothing special
blazing fossil
Oh wait no i'm confusing them with ODSTs
versed helm
S-III are significantly improved over S-II, but not as leniant as S-III, same extensive augmentations, they just got crappy armor
so they died alot.
stoic hamlet
Crappy protection wise but miles better stealth @versed helm
versed helm
depends.
inner basin
S-IIs and IIIs had the same augmentations. IIIs didn’t have high death rates (actually IIIs had none afaik) because the technology was better at that time. It is a common misconception
versed helm
Some variants of mjolnir are just leagues above SPI
versed helm
Gen-2 Scout and Recon Variants for example
inner basin
Power wise Mjolnir, Stealth wise SPI. SPI has better stealth capabilities which is why the Ferrets prefer it over Mjolnir.
versed helm
they excel in the stealth department, even without photo-reactive panels
stoic hamlet
MJOLNIR gives off massive amounts of heat, those variants only dampen it, but don’t fully hide it.
SPI gives off none. Even Forerunner A.I had trouble tracking it but it could track MJOLNIR just fine.
versed helm
Gen2 scout nearly completely removed it
stoic hamlet
Nearly
versed helm
yes, as in it's almost undetectable unless at close proximity
inner basin
Would you guys like a Headhunter game where you have prototype SPI suits with upgrades such as shielding that we saw in the Headhunters short story? I think it’d be cool.
versed helm
The chest has a spectrum-fracturing canopy emitter designed for extended active camouflage use, and a X900-Boulder emission shroud system (Swan-B5) that masks extraneous radioactive emissions.
The reactor pack has a Bravado-120-T5 fitted stabilizer that guards against reactor pings.[2] The kit also includes an IR-sig modulator.[9]```But that’s the thing, SPI isn’t, no matter the proximity. It’s completely invisible to thermal, infrared, and the like.
What gives it away is the shifting panels.
versed helm
nvm, it completely masks it
it has proactive emissions masking
that's just base Scout
stoic hamlet
Which GEN?
stoic hamlet
No it wouldn’t, unfortunately
versed helm
Gen2
obsidian thistle
Note SPI is a platform. It can have specialised variants and is customisable.
stoic hamlet
No it wouldn’t, unfortunately
versed helm
Gen2
obsidian thistle
Note SPI is a platform. It can have specialised variants and is customisable.
stoic hamlet
Av-cam gives off lots of heat, more than dampeners can handle
versed helm
SWAN-B5 is a very strong system
obsidian thistle
Note SPI is a platform. It can have specialised variants and is customisable.
stoic hamlet
Av-cam gives off lots of heat, more than dampeners can handle
Half my messages aren’t sending D:
versed helm
SWAN-B5 is a very strong system
stoic hamlet
I still dislike that, for the record @obsidian thistle
versed helm
it's not just you.
obsidian thistle
Discord had a hiccup.
obsidian thistle
No need to worry about it.
stoic hamlet
But anyways, I dislike the idea of SPI being an armour platform
It doesn’t make sense and IMO clashes with the intention of the armour
It should be iterative, not modular and with variants
Actually, where was it stated it’s a platform not a specific armour? Mythos?
versed helm
MJOLNIR is a platform, SPI is a platform
SPI is Semi-powered, MJOLNIR is Fully-Powered
certain technologies used on both can be used on either if a manufacturer so chooses to implement and test it
obsidian thistle
Tbh isnt that what happens to a lot of stuff. It begins with a single goal. But over time grows into something much more.
stoic hamlet
You misunderstand my dislike, I think.
I don’t think it makes sense to have dozens of variants or even variants in the single digits, as it’s not meant to be used for anything other than, well, infiltration and assault and it’s meant to be mass produced. There’s no reason to have different chassis or helmets or whatever, have that be add-ons or internal improvements but nothing more.
obsidian thistle
Phones used to be very limited. But over time grew.
versed helm
Calculators as well.
obsidian thistle
And now we have many variants of the phone-class device.
Some even allow parts to be swapped out in favor of other parts.
eager cloak
like the iphone 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 and 10
stoic hamlet
I wouldn’t say that’s a good example @obsidian thistle
The armour was made specifically because it wouldn’t cost a lot to produce, it was meant for mass production and ease of deployment.
Look at the modern military, they don’t make radical changes to weapon designs, the same should be the case here, especially if the goal is mass production.
eager cloak
now ill talk about the galaxy's XD
stoic hamlet
But those are iterative, not separate models @eager cloak
That’s what SPI should be
versed helm
as long as the costs are still the same, the manufacturers are free to develop within it
especially as detection technologies develop and improve, so does the armor
stoic hamlet
I agree with that
eager cloak
the manufacturs are gonna keep the cost of every phone they sell within about 100-200 dollars of the last one
versed helm
and then RED will swing in never having made a phone and mark it $1500
eager cloak
true
stoic hamlet
However that doesn’t mean we need stuff like Mark’s purported variant shown in Mythos (the only time such a suit has been shown or even hinted at, even Last Light has him wearing OG SPI) that we still don’t have lore on
eager cloak
but thats because they will have lots to offer with technology and set the price of other phones
versed helm
it's hard to expand lore to everything when you have literally thousands of things to expand upon, not including the things already explained but evolving
eager cloak
plus we have things that arnt in a game or book that were only mentioned breifly
that might have signifigance
versed helm
yep. we cant stagnate too much to focus on other things, and they'll be expanded upon more at some point, it's just a matter of waiting
eager cloak
yes
stoic hamlet
It was a suit of armour worn in art in Mythos, no lore for it, not even a name, it contradicted the cover of Last Light, and 343 haven’t commented on it at all.
Even when people asked IIRC
eager cloak
but they also have to consider making a book that covers some of those uncovered things and which to uncover
stoic hamlet
I’m going to post two screenshots, but it might take me time to find the second one, just bear with me, please?
eager cloak
ok i gtg anyway cya round
obsidian thistle
Book covers are semi-canon historically.
Like most just cant or break canon in one form or another xD
stoic hamlet
Gotta post the Halopedia link instead of the individual pic, RIP
obsidian thistle
Or are art for the sake of Art. (Envoy, Battleborn, so on)
stoic hamlet
^^^ This, makes less sense than......
^^^ This, to me
(The second image is a moc up a friend made for me, so apologies for it not looking like genuine SPI, he did his best, lol)
obsidian thistle
We still have no idea when Headhunters happens
Other than its after Beta graduated.
stoic hamlet
Between 2545-2552.
I’d argue before TORPEDO
unless the larger Spartan III Force referred to Gamma
modest marsh
@stoic hamlet I don’t think actv cam generates heat outside of The Flood
It would contradict later depictions in which VISR upgrades afforded only to SF teams like ODSTs and Spartans late in the war could reliably see them
Headhunters for example
Besides, if I’m not mistaken active camo was developed from Forerunner baffler technology which bends light
This would affect the entire electromagnetic spectrum, not just visible light
versed helm
Technically everything that happened in the past was lore and universe
obsidian thistle
Technically that is correct and incorrect.
versed helm
Did the bolshevik revolution happen in the halo universe?
obsidian thistle
There is deviations. Like a MSN interview of a Apollo pilot happening in a different year.
versed helm
Oh yeah. Everything besides details like that
obsidian thistle
Oh yea and a AI went back in time to 2004
versed helm
We need helmets based off of the sallet and bevor
But I guess that relates more to fashion and not lore
versed helm
Lmfao
stoic hamlet
Sup man?
versed helm
Fancy seeing you here lol
stoic hamlet
Likewise, lol
versed helm
Well I got banned for insulting someone for being overly obsessed with personal privacy. I did use a harsh word to be fair
stoic hamlet
Ah that sucks.
I haven’t been on the server for a while. Still there, but not really checked in
versed helm
But that's all in the past. Halo is the future
Literally, and literally. Historical setting vs futuristic setting
stoic hamlet
Indeed, very true.
Though it could also be considered the past depending on where about on the timeline you go.
last anchor
Aint really changed much.
analog violet
Can forge be kind of integrated into lore?
Can a monitor change its appearance or use nearby materials to form objects?
Like, if it were given the components, could it make a warthog
?
stable schooner
I notice the Halopedia suggests the flood made it to the Outer part of the Sentinel wall in Halo 2 Sacred Icon but I’m not seeing it.
stoic peak
How strong are the Over Shildes Elites have when it Comes to Lore or Canon when compared to the over Shileds Spartans have?
For example how many shots from a BR, DMR and AR would you have to fire to take them down?
versed helm
@analog violet that sounds like a really cool idea lol
@stoic peak Standard elites seem to go down in around 4, possibly 5 bursts from a Battle Rifle; according to New Blood. Higher-Ranked elites such as the Silent Shadow in Silent Storm can absorb 60 rounds from an MA5B (Halo CE assault rifle) without failing.
DMRs use the same cartridge as the AR in the canon, so I don't believe they are as useful against shields in the lore as they are in gameplay
Spartans, however, are harder to pin down both literally and in that context relative to sources. Sometimes they can be moderately threatened by enough assault rifle rounds, other times they can absorb 30MM, 50MM, and sometimes even 75MM autocannon fire, as seen in TFoR and Legacy of Onyx. Retribution has an AI quote that they can survive artillery shells as well, so it's all over the place, really
versed helm
I guess so, actually. Sometimes those inconsistencies can happen in the very same scene, however
Buck being threatened by them makes sense, since he makes several points regarding how cheap his armour seems in contrast to John's MJOLNIR
With Chief look in Infinite, I think you would have to be clinically insane to think shooting him in the chest would be a good idea, even if you managed to hit him
modest marsh
Buck being threatened by gunfire is difficult to reconcile when in the same book he’s being shot with hardlight weapons which are described within the text as being able to instantly vaporize human soldiers
That doesn’t...make any sense
I would say Matt Forbeck tries to imitate the flow of combat from the games as inspiration for his action sequences but as a consequence of that you result with illogical discrepancies like this
Admittedly that’s a problem with halo in general, where the aesthetics of having conventional firearms along with energy weapons is crucial but how they stack up doesn’t make sense given one is made to put holes in people while the other makes people disappear entirely
strong sage
So supposedly if gray team decommissioned what will happened to Jai , Mike and Adriana
Will they be integtated with Naomi or Spartan Branch or with Blue team
analog violet
Why the hell would they end up with blue team
strong sage
Coz they bro n sisters
Lul
Jk aside , im just curious about that thou if oni decided to decommissioning them
limpid meadow
I don't see why ONI would decom them. Even if ONI decided to change what kind of missions Gray Team, I doubt they'd break them up.
stoic hamlet
IIRC they were publicly decommissioned but still work for ONI as disavowable agents, presumably in a similar role to the Gammas.
Because apparently Sangheili have so much against “war crimes”
Which is, I mean, hypocritical on an absurd level, and I don’t understand why anyone would actually care what they thought.
low iron
What if they made a 3rd person halo game with ONI storyline tie in
analog violet
343 be like hahah no
warped nimbus
An Oni game would be neat tho
crimson badger
is the the place to discuss theories concerning Halo Infinite/Halo Lore?
as in predicting storylines, characters, story arcs, etc.
cause ive got one heck of a theory for Infinite
rustic cove
go to #483759756566069258 or stay here
last anchor
I'd play an ONI themed game
fair hazel
John would still be threatened by small arms fire. Just has to be enough of it.
Forge is integrated into the lore already
modest marsh
@fair hazel that’s not really important
“Enough of it” is kind of a useless statement because enough of anything will achieve a given goal
However within the confines of the story, specific dramatic elements do not add up
Buck is more threatened within the story by unaugmented rebels and Spartan trainees without armor using regular ballistic rifles
In the same story does he fight Prometheans using hardlight weapons
Each discharge of such a weapon would require an output that would far exceed any amount of ammunition that a person could carry, let alone shoot within a reasonable timeframe
Because again, bullets put holes in people
Hardlight incinerates you and leaves nothing behind
fair hazel
lightrifles dont incinerate you completely and leave nothing behind
theres probably different interactions between shields and hard light than shields and bullets
i dont recall buck being threatened by rebels
also some spartans did have MJOLNIR, some didnt. and he was shielding mickey, taking on the fire, at one point his shields depleted but he was fine. MJOLNIR protects.
modest marsh
It was stated earlier on hardlight leaves nothing left
And I’m talking about a specific scene where he’s about a room-width away from 3 unarmored Spartans, he seems confident they’d kill him
Also, the difference between bullets and hardlight is that hardlight is massively stronger
As we neared the dropship, I saw bodies sprawled everywhere. Most of them were the remains of Forerunner soldiers, but I spotted a helmet from a UNSC marine, too.
“Must have had her cap knocked off before they got her,” Vale said.
I knew what she meant. The Forerunner weapons didn’t just kill you. They obliterated you. It was like you simply evaporated into glowing energy crystals that faded into nothing faster than your last breath. They were absurdly powerful machines that the brains at ONI were still trying to figure out.
fair hazel
binary rifle, scattershot, incineration canon, etc