It’s not like Reach in that regard too
#lore-and-universe
inner basin
stoic hamlet
It doesn’t matter how well defended the world, or how well drilled the garrison or whatever, once a Covenant fleet arrived the colony was basically already dead
It was only a matter of time
inner basin
That is only an opinion after all, so is mine, and I see ours tend to differ on this
limpid meadow
That's how the war played out.
Covenant showed up and invaded, the UNSC would fight them off.
Then the Covenant would glass the planet and ultimately lose
Sigma Octanus IV was one the first major victories in years in 2552
vivid dust
Ah, the Keyes loop
inner basin
There were others like Cole’s last stand which was earlier in the war
stoic hamlet
IIRC standard doctrine of the UNSC was that if the Navy lost orbital supremacy the colony was lost and any engagements on the ground became fighting retreats as troops tried to get off world before the glassing.
limpid meadow
Cole's last stand was 2543
inner basin
While UNSC Naval victories were rare they definitely had them
limpid meadow
@stoic hamlet Pretty much it, yeah
stoic hamlet
There’s been.......less than a dozen, to my knowledge, often with the losses of most of the Navy ships present
gilded mason
Yup
stoic hamlet
Tribute saw 90% of the Navy in orbit wiped out
limpid meadow
And those victories were usually Cole's
gilded mason
Yeah. He was a very exceptional person.
stoic hamlet
Cole lost like, almost a hundred ships over harvest, IIRC
inner basin
They won a few Naval engagements with Spartan deployment from Naval ships
stoic hamlet
aye
Alpha Company did a few EVA ops and boarding ops IIRC
man, RIP anything they went up against, lol
inner basin
It was mostly against insurrectionists but there was one with Stanforth I believe
stoic hamlet
They fought off a coup on Mamore
inner basin
They did have a fight led by Stanforth I believe but I could be wrong. It was with one high ranking naval officer though
stoic hamlet
And fought Covenant on New Constantinople and an moon Base IIRC, before Prometheus.
Plus the counter boarding ops
They were active for over nine months IIRC
inner basin
Prometheus was such a bloodbath though. Kinda seems like a waste of resources
Having 300 Spartans at your disposal but then again that was the role of the S-IIIs usually, sigh
stoic hamlet
If they hadn’t earth would have fallen in a year IIRC. That was the calculations made for the op.
They were sent on the most important missions of the war, missions S-II’s couldn’t be risked on.
High reward, high risk
inner basin
They should of had a larger invading force. Maybe some of those Spartans could’ve survived. Send them in with some 100 Marines as Marines are more expendable imo
stoic hamlet
Except they weren’t. They couldn’t have done what Alpha did.
inner basin
I meant send Marines in with Alpha
stoic hamlet
Not to mention Alpha only died to a man because their extraction craft were destroyed
Had their craft not been destroyed many more would have survived, probably
They had no way to escape, so they decided to go down fighting
inner basin
It kinda seems like history repeated itself with Beta except instead of the extraction being destroyed they were blocked off from it
inner basin
There was 7 cruisers that appeared during Torpedo so it was poor odds for the Spartans
stoic hamlet
But they were winning on the ground, even with the cruisers deploying their complements
It was only when they started firing that things got bad
inner basin
They even held of Seraph’s on the ground stopping them from strafe running
inner basin
The sad part about Torpedo is that Min (who was in the same fireteam as Tom and Lucy) was killed because of technical difficulties (with the explosives). Another things is that more S-IIIs could have survived Torpedo had the factory not been blown up as early as it was as iirc, some were vaporised by the explosion
stoic hamlet
Yeah, but they would have died to the cruises.
They were firing indiscriminately because Beta were tearing through their ground troops.
inner basin
Well they could have survived had they also ran for the factory where they were safe from the cruisers
stoic hamlet
IIRC some tried but were cut off.
inner basin
No, I don’t think so, some tried to evac but were cutoff if that’s what you are thinking off. Those who were running for the evac craft weren’t deserting btw, it’s just omega 3 was declared.
stoic hamlet
Yeah. General retreat order.
Half turned to engage the new Covenant troops, half made for the evac craft, then a small group rushed the factory but only Foxtrot got inside.
I think
inner basin
I thought others who went to fight the threat eventually were going to run for the factory but at a later time but the explosives that were placed blew up not giving them the chance
full forge
Did Osman kill the Highcomm AIs on Rossbach's World? I honestly can't tell whether or not she thumbs the activation.
carmine sleet
That's intentional, they want us to wonder whether she did or not
full forge
BB is best AI, I'd love to see him make an appearance.
feral perch
Bikini Bottom
versed helm
Would oni have different uniforms like irl ?
stoic hamlet
Wdym?
abstract zealot
Depends on what they’re doing and the program. It also depends on the mission. The most common gear that we’ve seen that ONI agents wear is ODST style of gear or Marine style of gear dressed in black or grey.
versed helm
they have their own BDU
@stoic hamlet in the navy there are different uniforms like 4s 3s 2s 1s search it up for mote
stoic hamlet
I know there are
But I don’t know what you mean specifically, do you mean their own uniform or are you asking if they use the same as the navy?
versed helm
Yes
feral perch
So, any bets on which Spartan got his butt kicked by the Unggoy Ranger Stolt?
I wouldn't be surprised to learn it was Kevin-A282.
stoic hamlet
It hurts me to say probably a III
feral perch
Hey, we're on the same track.
stoic hamlet
Though we do have Omega......
feral perch
They're so out there in the lore, I dunno.
stoic hamlet
Actually when did he fight a Spartan? Timeline wise?
feral perch
There's no date or armor description given for this incident, so it's anyone's guess.
stoic hamlet
But was it during the war?
feral perch
In my headcanon which I just now decided, I think it happened in the middle of- yes - 2552.
stoic hamlet
I admit I haven’t read Shadow of Intent in awhile
gilded mason
I'll go check real quick
stoic hamlet
And it’s a book I don’t remember very well
feral perch
I mean I just did but okay.
gilded mason
Ah.
stoic hamlet
Do we know he genuinely fought a Spartan?
gilded mason
Yes
feral perch
He was promoted to Ranger Leader partly because of it, if not entirely.
stoic hamlet
Was he retelling a story or was it like, a genuine passage in the book?
feral perch
The latter.
gilded mason
Genuine passage, I believe
gilded mason
Yep, gettin' it now
stoic hamlet
I dont have the book on me/I may have lost it.
Can’t find Cole Protocol either, unfortunately
gilded mason
Stolt had survived encounters with human soldiers that saw many of his comrades fall. When he wasn’t battling the enemy, he outfought any Sangheili who sparred against him, enduring their melee strikes until they tired, and then pummeling them into submission with his chitinous fists and feet. After a chance encounter with one of the humans’ fearsome Spartans, in which the Unggoy wounded the enhanced human so grievously that it was forced to withdraw, even the Blademaster approved Stolt’s promotion to ranger leader.
feral perch
It's really ambiguous.
gilded mason
What is?
feral perch
The situation where he wounded the Spartan, as described in the passage.
gilded mason
Ah, well, considering the part about a Spartan came immediately after talking about his physical attributes and strength, seems like it's supposed be additional details about his physical power.
feral perch
Well yes, but right now I'm wondering who it was.
I'm sure that Spartan never talks about the incident, if they survived the war.
gilded mason
lol
stoic hamlet
I’m wondering if he didn’t outfight them but instead got the jump on them........
It might be Linda
Linda was wounded grievously by a Grunt Ranger IIRC. From getting shot in the back
The passage doesn’t directly mention he engaged them in hand to hand (there’s no way he’d survive hand to hand against a Spartan, above average or not)
So I think he maybe shot them, or something
gilded mason
Though there's no reason to mention that if he was using a weapon when the paragraph was otherwise talking about his physical power.
stoic hamlet
True, but it’s not a direct retelling of the event, and seems to be from his POV, or at least his state of mind, so it’s possible him beating a Spartan isn’t entirely truthful, but it’s also not fake.
It could be an embellishment
gilded mason
It's from Rtas' POV
stoic hamlet
Is it? Man, I really need to find the book.....
At any rate, I don’t know if we can conclusively say he himself alone caused a Spartan to withdraw.
I just don’t buy it.
gilded mason
It makes narrative sense that he defeated the Spartan physically when the passage was only talking about that angle beforehand, y'know?
stoic hamlet
Oh yeah I get you
But like, I can’t see it unless he fought dirty and surprised whoever it was
Like how John was nearly taken down by grunts in The Flood
gilded mason
I guess you could always tweet Staten to ask about it. He might respond.
stoic hamlet
I don’t use Twitter.
gilded mason
Ah.
stoic hamlet
But someone could, yes
Someone probably has already tbh
When the book first released
gilded mason
Hopefully.
stoic hamlet
I’ll check the wiki, maybe they complied a source or provided a theory or something
It doesn’t give anything unfortunately
modest marsh
Linda was injured from being third partied during their spacewalk above Reach
modest marsh
I think it was jackals, and there were multiple of them
stoic hamlet
So I was (somewhat comically) implying that’s how Stolt got his “I wounded a Spartan” bragging rights
modest marsh
Ah
stoic hamlet
Because I just can’t see him engaging one in CQC and living
remote spruce
i doubt Staten had in mind who was the Spartan
stoic hamlet
I doubt he did tbh, probably just thought it was a funny/badass thing for Stolt to have accomplished
But it’s.......rather unbelievable tbh
modest marsh
It’s quite out there
stoic hamlet
Unless he got the jump on them and didn’t fight them 1v1
modest marsh
However consider the purpose of the story
stoic hamlet
Which is what is implied by the excerpt
modest marsh
Kinda hard to break societal norms when Grunts normally play into their designated role super hard
So having one elevated to that of the strongest warriors in the setting helps narratively
stoic hamlet
Yeah but one doing something arguably impossible isn’t the way to break that norm.
At least IMO.
modest marsh
Even if it’s not exactly easily reconcilable
stoic hamlet
Like, have him be super smart and have an eye for tactics, or have maybe helped take a position and lived,
Not best Sangheili in sparring and somehow wound a Spartan in CQC.
The former I can kind of believe, the latter I can’t unless he fought dirty and didn’t do it alone.
But it’s implied that’s how he did it, and it’s just.......it’s hard to imagine
modest marsh
We don’t really have a grasp of what a physically ideal Grunt is capable of
We know the average Grunt is at least marginally superhuman in terms of forearm/upper body
feral perch
I think the point is that Joe Staten was having fun with it, and while canon, it's not super serious. It's almost comic relief for a rather grim tale.
modest marsh
I don’t see it that way
The story is about breaking down antiquated beliefs and embracing new possibilities for the benefit of all
gilded mason
Ye
modest marsh
Stolt is instrumental to this idea
It may be silly, but perhaps there should be some Grunts who can be taken seriously, even as warriors
gilded mason
It’s also kinda weird for me to think of them as silly these days considering the kind of things many have been through.
dense oxide
What is the most powerful post convent group
feral perch
The Created.
strong sage
Is it possible that marines post war manpower is around hundred million or more?
stoic peak
I just read on a Instagram post that Kiki Wolfkill has confirmed in a interview that the Halo Tv Serirs will not follow the main canon.
Can someone please explain this and confirm it for me Also maybe send a link to the interview ?.
I really hope its not true and does follow the main Canon :( as a fan of the Halo story and someone who has read all the comics and novels i would be very sad if it does not follow the main canon
versed helm
what's even the point
if it's not canon why make it? uugggh
i dont want big budget fanfics.
stoic peak
@versed helm i was talking to the admin on Halopedia and he said its a load of bull and not to listen to it
stoic peak
Yeah true. Ill wait till Halo Canon uploads something on YouTube
versed helm
I'll wait until an official announcement
carmine sleet
Halo Canon may be one of the most reliable Lore channels in the community but he normally waits for stuff to be official when it comes to things like this
Like, he ain't going to make a video on the top ten Halo TV series rumours
stoic peak
@carmine sleet thats true, there is no BS with him
quartz willow
Responding to your earlier statement I could believe that it could be like a show where its episodes with things that never happened in the that timeline like a little other stuff. Like humanity never encountering the covenant or some crap or humanity losing to the covenant. @stoic peak
stoic peak
@quartz willow could be more like Game Of Thrones where the books and tv series were seperate but diffrent
quartz willow
Yea or something like halo legends
ocean relic
how is an arbiter "created and consumed"? what does that even mean?
carmine sleet
A disgraced Elite, normally a former high ranking military leader of politician, is offered the chance to reclaim their lost honour by taking part in a sacrifical mission which they are expected to die during
inner basin
The Arbiter title once was a title meant for honour until one Arbiter went against the Higherarchs (Prophets) and was the one that brought great shame to the title of Arbiter
carmine sleet
Indeed, gotta blame Fal 'Chavamee for that
inner basin
The Prophets were so manipulative though and when Elites made contact with a Monitor, it all spiralled. I find it interesting how that occurs. It’s just luck I guess
quartz willow
My man Fal Chavamee was a God though
ocean relic
so "created and consumed" is just fancy wording
here i thought they literally revive the dead arbiters and use them, only for them to die...again
inner basin
The Prophets always speak like that though. Maybe it’s their manipulative tendencies?
full forge
Oh no, just them forcing someone to become Arbiter and then murdering/sending them on suicide missions.
ocean relic
truth is a necromancer confirmed by bungie???
inner basin
They sent them on suicide missions because they have so much power in the Covenant. Enough to rebel against the Covenant and pose a threat. If you want more on this the H2A terminals definitely provide a great insight into this
subtle depot
@ocean relic in the context created references an arbiter being appointed to that title. Consumed references them perishing on a mission. Being consumed by battle or something. It’s just fancy wording since they’re hierarchs
ocean relic
understood. thank you :))
lyric meadow
I was curious about the use of first aid within ODST's. Are they all trained in using biofoam and bandaging or does a squad come with a designated medic?
versed helm
I’d imagine they all have standard field medic training
carmine sleet
We see Alpha Nine perform first aid on Romeo during ODST as well
lyric meadow
Yeah i forgot about that, did they have a designated medic at all or no?
carmine sleet
I don't think Alpha Nine did but units like Sunray 1-1 of Boomerang Company from the Spirit of Fire had one
lyric meadow
Ah okay
tiny yarrow
I think it’s similar to real life. They’re trained in basic first aid, but field medics do exist
Like in HW1, Cutter’s ODST squads all have medics
stoic hamlet
As did Mckay, Haam, and Small Bears platoons in The Flood and Silent Storm, respectively.
ODST medics carry something called “The Shot” a drug cocktail that acts as both a painkiller.......and a euthanizer.
lyric meadow
Dang
stoic hamlet
Most UNSC special forces probably use it tbh, we just never see it used until Silent Storm
versed helm
It makes sense. Units like ODSTs would frequently run into situations where evacuating horrifically wounded comrades just isn't possible.
Romeo was probably nervous that Buck was planning to use it on him.
Interesting subtext, there.
Shows great strength of character on Buck's part.
stoic hamlet
Mhm, oftentimes they would be far behind enemy lines with no chance of rapid evac, so being able to quite literally put wounded troopers out of their misery painlessly is something a medic would likely want
That, or Buck didn’t like it being used
versed helm
Still strength of character.
Or maybe weakness, in another way.
Good retroactively implied development.
stoic hamlet
Yeah
It’s possible he’s had to watch good friends take The Shot and doesn’t like it being used/only when necessary.
versed helm
Doesn't surprise me.
There'd be huge databases of all kinds of information, accessible through the battlenet.
Likely curated by AI subroutines.
obsidian thistle
There is also a normal Threat Database which is confusingly called the UNSC Threat Database.
(Gonna get annoying fast if more records appear lol)
versed helm
The Navy Threat Database could be a subset.
tiny yarrow
There should just be one for every branch or a single, universal one
versed helm
Or a Navcom and Unicom one.
obsidian thistle
And then there is the not specific "Target profiles"
Which are profiles on specific targets.
tiny yarrow
Like HVTs?
tiny yarrow
So more like a most wanted list but for space
obsidian thistle
Note to self update that page with the updated Halo Wars DE Steam leader cards.
versed helm
It's probably, like, General Battlenet --> UNSC Threat Database --> Sub Databases (Naval and whatever else).
tiny yarrow
The leader cards look like Pokémon cards ngl
versed helm
The databases might be so huge that it's quicker to locate relevant information if they're separate.
versed helm
Good point.
I mean, the Navy Threat Database and the threat database in general might be the same thing.
Just a weird naming convention thing, based on who's responsible for it.
Like how the UNSCMC might actually be the United Earth Space Corps.
Just a naming oddity.
Actually, it might not be that odd - the Navy is likely responsible for UNSC communications, right?
versed helm
Which means that a huge database spanning all UNSC theatres would very much be in their purview.
Or they were the first to create such a database, and everyone else just uses theirs.
tiny yarrow
I would think the database would belong to ONI
tiny yarrow
versed helm
"The Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI, commonly pronounced phonetically as /oʊni/) is the intelligence service of the UNSC Navy."
tiny yarrow
Not according to the Spartan Field Manual
versed helm
Got a page number for me?
tiny yarrow
Hang on
versed helm
Hanging.
Probably in the branches bit, huh?
xD
127, therabouts?
Well, looks like Halopedia is due an edit.
versed helm
"ONI is an independent military agency, though it has a very close historical and administrative relationship with the Navy."
tiny yarrow
But look at 120
versed helm
An independent agency and a branch might not be the same thing, and the page on 120 might refer to function over formality.
tiny yarrow
It lists it as a separate branch
versed helm
And I am mainly talking formality.
tiny yarrow
Yeah
versed helm
There is no doubt that they're functionally distinct.
However, it does look a little like they may be distinct on the formal end too.
tiny yarrow
ONI is the space CIA, and should be treated such
Government entity, but not armed forces
versed helm
But if they're called the Office of Naval Intelligence and aren't part of the Navy, it makes sense that the threat database might be called the Naval Threat Database.
The Navy is very much the most important formation of the UNSC.
By a million miles.
tiny yarrow
I’d assume Navy refers to Space affairs
versed helm
Well does ONI limit itself to that?
tiny yarrow
Illegal space stations
versed helm
The point is, everything that the UNSC does that's not on Earth is facilitated by the Navy.
Without the Navy, no branch could get anything done.
The Navy does the bulk of the important fighting (aside from Spartans these days, I guess).
The Navy easily would have the most resources.
obsidian thistle
ONI is the space version of me. Wow I aint sure if thats a compliment or something I should be worried about.
versed helm
Hence, Naval Threat Database. For use by the navy and all those under their logistical umbrella.
gilded mason
A bit of both.
versed helm
Hence, Office of Naval Intelligence. Intelligence of use to the Navy, and those who operate alongside it.
inner basin
I mean Naval Intelligence. It’s in the name guys
versed helm
That's what I thought.
But the Field Manual is playing games with us, dude.
Check pages 120 and 127.
inner basin
Do I have to? It’s 1:20 in the morning
versed helm
If you want to weigh in, yes.
obsidian thistle
Well I'll get to adding that info soon.
obsidian thistle
I have huge plans for the wiki involving that book.
versed helm
This doesn't list ONI as a branch.
It is possible to be a separate agency but not a full-fledged branch.
But this does look to return things more to the status-quo.
inner basin
Good to know I can check Halopedia soon to see see that (soon). Also ONI isn’t a branch as there are only five branches of the UNSC
versed helm
Functionally a branch, formally part of the Navy.
But you think you'd just say that.
This is why 343 should administer lore in greater volume than, like, 2 general paragraphs on a given subject matter.
We can take it.
inner basin
Yeah it acts like it’s own branch but is under the Navy branch overall
obsidian thistle
My Human rank/role overhaul plans are tied heavily to this btw
Make stuff more detailed and easier for everyone.
versed helm
Also, is the fan consensus still that the UESC is the Marine Corps' proper name?
Or has something better fitting been theorized?
United Earth Space Corps.
United Nations Space Command.
I wish that were not such an obvious error, tbh.
obsidian thistle
UESC isnt a thing I believe. But I'd need to check.
versed helm
Well, I mean, what was Hood on about?
He seemed to be having a rough day, though, to be fair.
inner basin
It should be UNMC (United Nations Marine Corps)
obsidian thistle
Oh wait
versed helm
"Hull vector toos heavy for starside intercept"
obsidian thistle
UESC is a thing lol
But
It it seems to be part of early franchise weirdness Halo 2 and prior had.
inner basin
I think UNMC is more fitting for the Marine Corps as we have UNSC so why not have the Marine Corps be called UNMC?
versed helm
CIA, is not everything canon until explicitly retconned?
I mean, it's not even an Encyclopedia thing. It's one of the main games.
We don't get to pull that excuse here.
obsidian thistle
I never said the UESC wasnt canon xD
Just that it was part of early franchise weirdness
versed helm
So where does that put it in terms of modern lore interpretation?
obsidian thistle
In a place we have no idea how to use or link with anything lol
Its kinda like this
Which is obviously refering to the 105th xD But due to how the 105th is. It cant be
tiny yarrow
Didn’t Bungie say they were just winging the story as it goes in a ViDoc?
versed helm
Oh, more times than that.
remote spruce
I mean it seems like both devs are winging it
versed helm
Whatever happened to Nairobi during the Battle of Earth?
versed helm
Who would win a S4 or a odst
carmine sleet
Spartan IV, much stronger and faster, ODSTs have no augmentations meaning they wouldn't be able to keep up
keen brook
And they can see things in slow motion with more insane reaction times than any ODST can physically keep up with along with almost unbreakable bones
I mean MAYBE if the ODST was like super super lucky or smart they could top out but physically they just couldn’t win yeah
versed helm
They are 5% less effective
carmine sleet
Who are 5% less effective?
stoic hamlet
IV’s don’t have the same reaction speeds as the II’s or III’s, nor the physical strength.
IIRC someone at 343 said they were “peak humans” or something to that effect, whereas a II or III is beyond that.
A IV would still beat an ODST on strength alone but not to the extent as a II or III, and out of armour a IV would get massacred by a II or III.
tropic oak
there armour helps them keep up as it is more advanced
fair hazel
spartan IVs are super soldiers, beyond whatever peak means
i dont doubt enhanced reflexes
stoic hamlet
Yeah I’m not saying they aren’t super soldiers, they’re just not as “super” without the armour.
But even unarmoured they’re exceptional
inner basin
A S-IV in GEN2 Mjolnir can keep up with a S-II or S-III, if said S-II or III was in GEN1 Mjolnir, but if said S-II or III was in GEN2 Mjolnir chances are the S-II or III would win due to the more extensive augmentations they got. The S-IV would still have a chance but would be more than likely bested by the other S-II or III. That’s the low down basically. I still believe that the fight between Locke and Chief was down so very incorrectly as Locke (on paper) should’ve been bested more handedly, but maybe other factors came into play like Chief being more older perhaps?
feral perch
I know some have a theory that Mjolnir does not enhance strength and speed of the user in a linear way, but rather it's a form of equalizer. It will enhance your abilities up to a point, where all Spartans then have similar strength.
So the weaker you are, the more it boosts your strength, and the stronger, the less it boosts it
proper summit
Does anyone have a name for a academy on Sanghelios where Elites trained and learned the ways of a true Sangheili? important
are there even "schools" on sanghelios?
gilded mason
Yes
proper summit
@gilded mason do you know what a name for such a place would be? Like instead of Montgomery High School it's blank academy or... need help
gilded mason
Not sure if a proper name was ever said for them.
proper summit
hmmm. I'll just make up something similar to how their ships are named.
gilded mason
That'd probably work.
inner basin
Would it not be under Keeps? Like for Thel ‘Vadamee it would be the Vadam Keep I believe
proper summit
hm, so if there was an elite named Cova 'Kofumee, he'd just be under Kofum keep right? that'd be where I could say he learned his warrior ways?
gilded mason
Yeah, that could work. We don't really have enough info on this kinda thing to have something definitive.
proper summit
Alright, perfect and thanks!
modest marsh
@feral perch armor variants themselves introduce an intrinsic inequality
Ignoring the “base abilities” of one or another, what type of armor they wear directly influences their combat functions in specific capacities, presumably to the extent they’d have a distinct advantage
Obviously the armor is designed to be versatile enough to suit the needs of a Spartan on a mission by mission basis, but rarely do they face something as dangerous as a fellow Spartan in live combat, so those advantages themselves as well as the individual proficiencies of the Spartan will inevitably tip the scales
It’s not really honest to suggest they’re “all equals” beyond status
proper summit
I'd think some armor would be better at certain things than others. Like Security would enhance one's strength while CQB would enhance the wearer's reaction time and speed.
or something like that
modest marsh
The techsuit is tuned to supplement and complement your specific augmentation profile...
Spartan Field Manual, pg. 26
So even the techsuit itself presents some reasonable amount of variability considering each IV is essentially given a custom made suit to complement their similarly tailor-made augmentation procedures
So someone who developed a unique build or physique would benefit more from a tolerance level provided by the suit that may not be viable for other Spartans
It’s also very likely this can and will change over time
The IVs are basically subject to a perpetual morphological state where they are constantly adapting their bodies and improving or specializing in a new faculty
Also the very existence of RECRUIT-class armor would itself suggest they need to work their way up from training wheels to a dirt bike
versed helm
Kinda highlights that the IVs are more than we give them credit for.
It's a little like the armour mods allocated to the campaign characters of Halo 5 - the SIIs might be tougher, sure, exerting more raw physicality overall, but I think the diversity of the IVs might be their strength.
With that in mind, I still believe that it's perfectly reasonable for a hand-to-hand engagement between Locke and Chief to play out as it did - though some more Spartan physicality would've been nice xD
Just to bring it back to the thing that this conversation tends to lead into or out from.
feral perch
@modest marsh I was only repeating a theory that I personally dislike and disagree with.
modest marsh
And I was refuting it to further that discussion point because it is quite the confounding issue and quite important to how we interpret certain interactions in the story
clever fable
Random thought that I think would be neat for a plot: (Bad Guy) finds a Miner Installation that acts as a junction for consolidation of planets as interstellar freight/building materials, uses its slipspace conduit to launch a moon at a target, and (Good Guys) have to stop it by using (Some random Forerunner mcgguffin, or something a little more interesting).
inner basin
Well it’s a new concept that I’ve personally never heard of before. Reasons they’d need to consider is they’d need to find a good antagonist as well as protagonist for the story, there’d have to be a good reason for why this story is happening, as well as why the characters are there.
carmine sleet
Throwing moons at planets is kinda a boring plot idea honestly because it's been done allot in Sci-Fi
jovial pilot
^
north flint
It reminds me of the Spartan Assault/Strike (I don't remember which one) plot where the covenant found an installation that could destroy moons or planets and they used it against a human colony(?). So, I feel like it's the same thing.
inner basin
That was Spartan Assault
carmine sleet
Very similar, X-50 was basically a Death Star
inner basin
I did enjoy the plot somewhat though as it switched between Palmer and Davis while playing as an RTS and it was kinda fun
carmine sleet
Spartan Assault was good in that it focused more on Palmer and Davis' journey to stop Merg 'Vol, the super weapon was obviously what they were trying to stop but the characters were more important to focus on (Even with the small amount of character development we got in that game)
obsidian thistle
Spartan Strike had better gameplay but a less focused story unfortunately.
Its a great tie in game for Halo 2A and Halo 4 however xD
inner basin
Yeah the tie ins are pretty okay. We get to see New Phoenix post-incident and the design team really outdid themselves.
clever fable
When I say target, I don't necessarily mean planet. Though that would be the most vanilla choice, yes.
vague scroll
@inner basin for future reference, the term for the game is “top-down shooter”
inner basin
Oh okay, I didn’t know what it was lol
stoic hamlet
Twin stick is also used sometimes
versed helm
is fireteam crimson from spartan ops still in active duty after halo 4 ??
eternal gazelle
no
versed helm
How do you know, ghost?
tall moat
Halopedia says still active, even though theyve only been mentioned since h4 🤷🏿♂️
fair hazel
more than likely. we see their emblem in halo 5
tulip grail
I’m curious. Does anyone want to have an estimate at the average human lifespan by the time of H5 given how there’s been a time of relative peace since the end of the war with the Covenant?
edgy ore
tulip grail
I think that figure is comparable to that of humans in Mass Effect.
Though I’m not sure how prevalent gene modding is in Halo’s setting.
versed helm
Well I would say 100-120
warm ridge
versed helm
rubs hands together ONI in lore are the most humane section of humanity.
versed helm
hello guys
obsidian thistle
Hola there
versed helm
what do u think about Chief choosing not to obey red team in halo 5?
obsidian thistle
Red Team wasnt in Halo 5.
versed helm
that oni sent
versed helm
yeah it is
trail prawn
I mean, it kinda goes off what you'd expect to happen. Considering the master chief was an engineered supersoldier, I don't think he's ever failed to follow UNSC orders before
it was interesting to say the least.
versed helm
he still followed cortana kinda knowing the destruction she caused
and i dont mean followed as obeyed her
trail prawn
I think it's a good example that chief is only human, and that his attachments to cortana prove that
versed helm
btw, u think she is destroyed for good?
trail prawn
can't really tell. cortana is a pretty iconic character, but she's also been with us for awhile and it might be time for her to go.
and to be honest, same with the chief. The only problem is the games haven't really left us with any other character to root for as the protagonist
like ODST was a nice side game
dense flume
Will we see a "new Cortana" instead, a fresh version from Halsey?
versed helm
nah, chief must not be removed
dense flume
Remember the scene in Halo 4 where Cortana talks about being replaced by another
versed helm
ye
if the chief is ever replaced, there'd need to be a well developed character that we've known for a long time that could let us fluently play with 'em
dense flume
After rampancy / logic plague, how much of the current Evil Cortana is still the old Cortana
trail prawn
that's the idea @versed helm
versed helm
ye, i know.
warm laurel
Maybe going further with Noble 6
versed helm
i hope not
trail prawn
there's no character that comes to mind now though, that's why I said eventually
noble 6 had no backstory though
versed helm
maybe
trail prawn
well he did, but he never displayed emotion or any interaction with anyone
versed helm
noble 6 was more of a emotionless super soldier than all of noble team
if they keep the franchise going with chief and a bunch of side parts with other charachters like noble 6
combined
dense flume
Noble 6 would reset the time for the games though, and prevent complexity of storytelling beyond Halo 5/Infinite (The Convenant War, etc.)
trail prawn
a character that I'd like to see is kurt
idk if you guys read the books, but kurt was basically masterchief V2
dense flume
@trail prawn Which book is taht (I haven't read them all yet)
versed helm
maybe if sgt.johnson didnt die we would have been able to play with him
trail prawn
versed helm
y'know, out of all the things i wanna see is a better atmosphere
dense flume
And what about Jerome-092?
versed helm
what kind of mission was he appointed before he was MIA
dense flume
a sociable lone wolf?
versed helm
presumed
trail prawn
eh just read the wiki
balmy belfry
yhoooooooooo i just realised
halo guns are basically just going to be the guns we use for the rest of time
trail prawn
what do you mean by that @balmy belfry
dense flume
@versed helm could be interesting if he seeks redemption for his past
trail prawn
well the ones that we know of, yes
and that doesn't always work depending on the conditions
versed helm
what if cortana survived and he joined her side
trail prawn
eg: underwater
balmy belfry
well i mean what are u trying to say, nothing is bullet proof
dense flume
Precursors?
balmy belfry
oh theres guns for underwater too lmao
versed helm
them too
balmy belfry
the soviets developed them
trail prawn
what has this got to do with halo guns?
balmy belfry
well the calibres used in halo games are realistic lol and we'll use gun slike that in the future
dense flume
@versed helm to counter the "created" I think Humanity, the Elites, need more extra hands
balmy belfry
lasers arent really worth it because of the energy cost and idfk about plasma man
dense flume
Unless teh flood becomes very strong suddenly
versed helm
we are the created @dense flume
dense flume
are you saying we are all chat bots on discord and not actual persons?
versed helm
kinda xd
if humans and the elites, forerunners, maybe the grunts and bruts unite
bruts have a small chance of doing that prob
dense flume
You're saying you expect that they've all joined up with Cortana in Halo Infinite?
versed helm
no xD
im saying that if cortana and mendicant unite, we might need to also unite with the elites and others
dense flume
oh right that way, yeah 😛
versed helm
idk
quasi walrus
Mmm it's a 50/50 cause in the trailer we saw chief inserting an AI
dense flume
I don't know for sure, I thought they mentioned it being a "Halo 6", but of course with creative freedom you can retcon a few things or so
trail prawn
I have a feeling it won't
simply because of the negative reception halo 5's campaign received
versed helm
since its gonna be like halo CE
trail prawn
I think infinite will tell a story of the chief but it will probably be set in the future or something
dense flume
Didn't the teaser trailer from last year expose a halo-timeline year later than Halo 5?
versed helm
more like a lone wolf and not much interaction with others
dense flume
@versed helm but I don't want to lose my Blue Team again T_T
trail prawn
I actually prefer fighting alone
versed helm
they already said they was gonna double down on chief's story
trail prawn
the AI are pretty "dumb" in the game, you kinda lose immersion when you play with them
versed helm
maybe blue team will be part of that, but small chance
trail prawn
it's like they no longer become your human teammates
if they're going to add teammates they should be 100% scripted
imo
dense flume
I guess it's ok if we go back to being a super awesome genetically engineered / augmented soldier
versed helm
one more thing
dense flume
and not everyone can become a spartan (III, IV)
trail prawn
I hope it's the covenant, they've been the most fun to fight
flood have been a great side mission type enemy thing
versed helm
mostly the flood
dense flume
if we don't reset the time, maybe parts of the covenant joined cortana, and the elites joined humans, and the flood waits until everybody has weakened to strike?
versed helm
since we are on alpha halo
dense flume
but the flood, they are still testing humans to take the mantle right?
versed helm
installation 0
07 was where the flood released
maybe we will also see the great builder :v
robust obsidian
hopefully
versed helm
since he played a big role in making the halos, he must be in some part at least
versed helm
i dont think he died
trail prawn
I'm not sure how halo would work if it was open world
actualyl nvm that could be incredible
imagine a halo version of star wars the old republic
except you only play as master chief
you could go to different planets, follow different storylines
etc
wind kayak
Well there is ODST?
dense flume
@balmy belfry cry in a good way right?
dense flume
@trail prawn the scope sounds too big though, look at Destiny, it takes a lot of effort to have a meaningful open world across multiple planets
wind kayak
yeah but its close to what blqck was talking about
trail prawn
well they have been working on infinite for quite a while now.
and it's not impossible
especially with this new engine
past fog
Sup
balmy belfry
when i think open world i think Crysis, Fallout, Plaines of Eidolon on Warframe
well crysis 1
crysis 2 and 3 werent open world
trail prawn
I would actually love an open world halo.
balmy belfry
yeah
past fog
Meh
balmy belfry
but i would support it along with a campaign
trail prawn
there would be a main storyline that would take you across multiple halos
hundreds of hours of dialogue, you could have companions etc
like arbiter or buck etc
wind kayak
If they made a Open world halo i would want our main protagonist to be Juun
past fog
Imo I feel like it would be better if it were level based
trail prawn
yeah
past fog
Well it still is but
trail prawn
it would not be the typical halo
balmy belfry
also i hope we get to play as a marine at one point
past fog
You catch my drift
trail prawn
but all the armour customisation would be nice
past fog
I just know the originals
trail prawn
I saw the armours from 5 today for the first time
some of them are pretty uhh... wild
obsidian thistle
All have interesting lore.
trail prawn
the ones that they remastered look a little weird
like the EVA helmet
looked the best in reach imo
past fog
we should move to #general-chat
trail prawn
yup
balmy belfry
yeah pretty much all the armor sets looked nice in reach
the new halo 4 ones were kinda gross imo
past fog
Yeah I agree there
balmy belfry
just too much variation makes me sick
all the different visors colours and sets was like bruh
reach's armour was s e x y af
past fog
Sometimes I didn't like the armours just because it kinda strayed from original halo style
And it felt weird seeing mark VI in such a way
obsidian thistle
I actually love the modular style GEN2 (Halo 4 and 5) has. If I dislike how a piece of armor looks I can swap it out. (Shame however Halo 5 is more limited in the customisation, Halo 4 had it just perfect)
I kinda grown to not like GEN1s (Halo 3 and Reach) attachment approach. It merely coverups what I dislike.
past fog
Honestly I find it to look too clunky
The original ones looked more of an actual military suit
Which were sleek and smooth
Also another thing that bothers me with halo 4 and halo 5 suits are their toyishness...
The colours are very vibrant
Especially in Halo 5
And the material looks like plastic imo
But I did enjoy the style... sometimes
So I can see your point of view
obsidian thistle
In a lore point of view GEN2 solves the situation issue GEN1 had by not being tied to an existing set of armor. Armor can be made for any scenario (in theory) and not worry about how the base armor looks cause well there is no base armor.
modest marsh
Maybe they could hybridize
Attachments are useful whether or not it changes the armor’s actual configuration
stoic hamlet
I’m surprised you dislike the attachment angle CIA, considering that’s how it was meant to be in the early books.
distant crag
Reading First Strike for the first time since playing Halo 5 and reading that Linda died gave me whiplash
versed helm
ye. Quick thinking to put her in the cryopod
carmine sleet
Indeed, not to mention very lucky her pod wasn't taken out during the destruction of 04 by debris from the ring
modest marsh
I’m still not sure how they uh
Fixed her face
She was nicked in the skull by a plasma bolt
versed helm
Wait, hold on.
Why did Chief find her pod, again?
As in, why was it floating around in space?
vivid dust
pretty much iirc
versed helm
It's got to have been, like, auto-jettison as a result of damage to the cryo bay that would've been fatal to the occupants anyway.
modest marsh
It was stated to be standard operating procedure
dull fox
Cryopods are jettisoned from UNSC ships on contact with Covenant
modest marsh
^
versed helm
That seems like terrible procedure
modest marsh
Wdym
versed helm
Cryopods are jettisoned when scuttling, not on contact
Like, if they're jettisoned on-contact with the Covenant, then what happens if you manage to escape the engagement? You've just killed a bunch of people.
Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks, Dark.
Technically cryopods have the capability to preserve the occupant in a vacuum.
Linda's also a case example of that technology
her suit had been breached when she was wounded.
modest marsh
thrusters on one end. "It could be a cryotube," Cortana said. "Thruster and power packs can be affixed on their aft sections for emergencies... if a ship has to be abandoned, for example."
"And most of the crew on the Pillar of Autumn never had a chance to be revived from cryo," the Chief said. "They could have been jettisoned before the ship went down. Move us toward them. Docking thrusters only."
versed helm
"Most of the crew never had a chance."
chance to be revived.
I hope he means, most of the crew who happened to be in cryo.
he means they werent woken up
It's pretty clear the majority of the Autumn's crew were awake and participating in the battle.
they werent.
Yeah, sure.
The pillar of Autumn was a massive ship
you really think only a couple hundred personnel were it?
both marines and technicians
No, but the books make it clear that a very large number of Marines and personnel were present, particularly in the battles surrounding Alpha base.
Also, from what we've seen in the past, waking troops up from cryo is not that difficult.
modest marsh
You mean just The Flood
versed helm
Most important personnel should've been up and about before the PoA exited slipspace.
modest marsh
They made a random jump, they didn’t expect to engage in infantry combat
versed helm
It's just too silly - one of First Strike's many inconsistencies with more recent and more sensible material.
Buy it if you want.
modest marsh
Only The Flood illustrates the notion that a large amount of troops made it off the Autumn safely
stoic hamlet
I'd argue CE does as well
versed helm
Fireteam Raven.
modest marsh
Does it?
versed helm
it doesnt.
stoic hamlet
At the least over 100 people got off the autumn in CE.
versed helm
Plus, totally independent of that, if I were Keyes (or any UNSC Captain) I would have my ship fully prepared before exiting slipspace in an unknown location.
modest marsh
The Autumn carried thousands
versed helm
Common sense has a lot of weight in how I interpret canon.
stoic hamlet
^^^
versed helm
waking units from cryo is done in stages of readiness.
stoic hamlet
UNSC ships have quick thawed troops before
versed helm
you cant instantly wake up several thousand personnel and expect to have everything ready for them
smaller ships, yes.
stoic hamlet
it's risky, but it is done
modest marsh
There’s also not enough transports to move all those men at once
versed helm
If there weren't facilities, those men and women would not be on the ship.
stoic hamlet
no one's saying the entire ship was woken up
versed helm
I'm sorry, but that's atrocious logic and I'm not buying it.
at the time the Autumn was one of the largest ships in the UNSC Fleet.
versed helm
if not the largest.
stoic hamlet
what?
versed helm
It's a Warfleet trend. It gives special ships pretty large crew compliments out of nowhere.
stoic hamlet
you know the Autumn is a Light Crusier right?
inner basin
Marathon-Class Heavy Cruiser is larger
stoic hamlet
there were a few Valiant's still left as well IIRC
modest marsh
Is it really that ridiculous for the Autumn to have a large crew compliment when its purpose is to board a Covenant vessel and extract a Prophet
versed helm
Valiants were very sparse though
versed helm
No, like, this argument doesn't even matter. The point is, there's no way that a functional UNSC ship of war at that time in the HCW had a larger compliment of troops than it could facilitate in a combat environment or bring to bear in combat.
inner basin
Ship length is you’re asking me Eternal
modest marsh
It’s far more infantry-support oriented than most UNSC battleships that aren’t designed specifically for that purpose
versed helm
Otherwise, it's inefficient. Especially if it's intended, as you say, as a support ship!
The UNSC Everest was also the Flagship at the time. so you cant compare it with a standard
Especially in that case.
stoic hamlet
there are larger ships than the Everest
modest marsh
Your incredulity of the matter doesn’t matter
modest marsh
They don’t have the dropships to move the number of men they have
versed helm
Whatever, this isn't a productive argument. Different interpretations of canon are totally valid, and I'd say that my perspective is supported by a valid interpretation.
Believe what you want.
modest marsh
I believe that we have canon information only you are choosing to ignore
modest marsh
We have a rough number of how many troops were on the Autumn
versed helm
iirc there were only 2 punics remaining by the end of the war.
stoic hamlet
that's not the point @versed helm
modest marsh
What the Flood and Fireteam Raven illustrate does not reflect that number
inner basin
Doesn’t matter how many there are, they still exist Dark
modest marsh
First Strike says most didn’t make it
versed helm
And I was referring to combat capabilities.
stoic hamlet
the point is your claim of the Autumn being the largest ship in the fleet is utterly insane and not supported at all
modest marsh
Ergo, there’s no issue here besides your disbelief
versed helm
Autumn was the pre-infinity housing for spartans
stoic hamlet
for one op
versed helm
First Strike could say most didn't make it if you choose to accept an interpretation of the line in question that is supported by logic inconsistent with believable military organization and thinking.
stoic hamlet
and not even all of them
inner basin
No it wasn’t
stoic hamlet
no, literally only for RED FLAG
modest marsh
Halo isn’t believable
inner basin
It was for Red Flag
modest marsh
I am presenting facts from the material
versed helm
Magg, there's a difference between realism and believability.
Halo's not realistic, not by half.
But believability is integral to good storytelling.
modest marsh
Sometimes it’s not believable either
versed helm
And it's being neglected here, by you.
stoic hamlet
I love how we have two separate convos going on, it's fun to watch, lol.
modest marsh
Who cares if you think it’s good, I am telling you facts from the material
Subjective vs Objective dude
versed helm
There's nothing objective about what you're saying, or what anyone's saying.
inner basin
How can you pick out facts from Sci-Fi?
versed helm
We don't have conclusive evidence from either way - your perspective is potentially more favoured by the material, but I've always preferred perspectives that are more believable.
inner basin
It’s three centuries in to the future
modest marsh
You say you don’t believe that most of autumn’s compliment didn’t make it to the surface
versed helm
Good point, Beast.
modest marsh
Okay then that’s canon
stoic hamlet
four actually
modest marsh
???
versed helm
????
stoic hamlet
if we don't count the current century
modest marsh
I am perfectly fine with the ridiculous elements of the series
I didn’t suggest otherwise
versed helm
Yeah, but you often insist they're ridiculous without even trying to understand.
Face-value is your game, evidently.
modest marsh
Fiction often is ridiculous
versed helm
That's kind of the point. But ridiculous also doesn't mean it's not believable.
Real life is typically more ridiculous than fiction.
modest marsh
What you choose to believe is subjective
inner basin
I mean to add we had around 100,000 ODSTs during the HCW, we only have around 200 ODSTs post-war and only around 400-500 S-IVs (where most ODSTs went). Where did they all go?
versed helm
Thanks for informing me of that notion, my world view is radically altered.
Beast, I don't know where those numbers for ODSTs are coming from
But what's the relevance?
modest marsh
Aren’t you one of the people that get ornery at the suggestion that the 343 games aren’t canon
versed helm
Me?
Uh, yeah. I'd say that's a mandatory trait to have for someone who takes Halo lore seriously.
There's a gulf between a line from a book that's open to interpretation and the existence of a sequel to the main storyline.
modest marsh
I don’t see how it’s open to interpretation
inner basin
Well it’s a rough estimate adding up all the numbers from the divisions, we know there are around 400-500 S-IVs, and we know of 200 ODSTs on Infinity. The relevance is to the Autumn argument, about how they could all die (like a lot of the crew on the Autumn who couldn’t escape on life boats).
modest marsh
Chief is a reliable source on the number of people who made it groundside
inner basin
I would say only half the crew made it off (including the ODSTs who made a combat drop from the PoA).
modest marsh
That seems arbitrary
versed helm
Alright, the PoA had a naval crew of 1000
modest marsh
There’s definitely more human Flood forms than marines we encounter at least
versed helm
Troop components of 800 regular Marines, 400 ODSTs
inner basin
We can’t tell how many died on the ship as the flood made it to the PoA before Chief in Halo CE hence why we saw no bodies
modest marsh
That could be because they were on the ship still
versed helm
"And most of the crew on the Pillar of Autumn never had a chance to be revived from cryo,"
Clearly, judging from available material, most of the Marine compliment were active.
warm wigeon
cryopods were jettisoned prior to landing
modest marsh
Why is that clear
versed helm
Large-scale engagements from both The Flood and Fireteam Raven, in which heavy UNSC casualties are sustained hundreds of troops participate.
modest marsh
They really aren’t that large
versed helm
I disagree with that.
I remember there being a tank battle which occurred involving the ODSTs at the PoA itself.
There would've easily been hundreds present on both sides.
modest marsh
There was a few Scorpions, yes
versed helm
But wait - Raven likely retcons that, doesn't it?
modest marsh
There’s also only a couple Pelicans
versed helm
By having that engagement (or one very similar) occur almost immediately after the landing.
stoic hamlet
It was a cobbled togethee company of ODST's and a half strength marine platoon, IIRC
stoic hamlet
that was at the autumn in the flood
but the company was 130 individuals
Mckay pulled troopers from other companies to fill hers.
IIRC
modest marsh
Most of them survived that engagement didn’t they
stoic hamlet
yeah
versed helm
And that was after several other large engagements and attrition on the ring.
But I'm trying to suggest that The Flood's actually probably highly faulty at this point.
modest marsh
Only other one I can think of was the attack and capture of alpha base
versed helm
And the following defence of the butte from the ghosts.
modest marsh
Unless you’re talking about offscreen fights
stoic hamlet
But i like the flood D:
versed helm
Oh, and the large attack on Alpha base.
The one where the ODSTs hunted down cloaked elites with infrared goggles or whatever.
versed helm
But in The Flood the battle to retrieve material from the PoA happens a long time into the Battle of Installation 04
modest marsh
That particular scene doesn’t make sense with current ODSTs
versed helm
But clearly they were hauling Scorpion tanks and such off the PoA immediately after landing, going off Raven.
stoic hamlet
Change them using thermals to VISR
stoic hamlet
or have that as a component of VISR
versed helm
VISR may have been upgraded to use visual queues to detect active camo in a capacity that the PoA ODSTs were not party to
Prior to that, proper infrared goggles may have been required
Worn over the helmet, similar to Romeo's goggles.
stoic hamlet
Either option works I suppose
modest marsh
But integrated thermal imagining had long since been a thing?
modest marsh
Blue Team on their first mission
stoic hamlet
the VISR makes the most sense to me, but if they needed to use the goggles then meh
versed helm
MJOLNIR's different.
modest marsh
They had helmets with thermal sensors that penetrated multiple walls
It was not MJOLNIR
That black body suits
versed helm
For god's sake, maybe be more clear upfront to avoid confusion?
modest marsh
I said their first mission
modest marsh
They only have one first mission after all
modest marsh
Well they also didn’t use thermal imaging on that mission
versed helm
Anyway, the overarching point is, The Flood's probably not to be taken too seriously at this point.
versed helm
Yeah. Some of the best written proper military sci-fi in Halo.
A good eye for practical writing.
With a few obvious incongruities, likely a result of the author's own experience.
stoic hamlet
I'm still annoyed Mckay didn't appear in Fireteam Raven.
modest marsh
Where would you have worked her in?
stoic hamlet
she didn't need to speak, just appear
versed helm
Hell, have her name get dropped.
stoic hamlet
she was his XO
modest marsh
Well moreover
If she did appear, she would just be another ODST to the common person I guess
Maybe radio chatter could’ve been used
modest marsh
Silva needs to appear for like
Giving the players a reason to do stuff
It’s a halo thing, you start with getting orders from a superior and/or AI
versed helm
Question, though - if the majority of the PoA's crew never awoke from cryo, shouldn't all have been jettisoned?
If that's the case, why was only Linda found?
modest marsh
Covenant may have been shooting the ones ejected or got caught in the crossfire, but I think the majority weren’t
Again, I think those still frozen ended up being turned into flood
Since they number significantly more than the live humans
versed helm
Some real Aliens 3 stuff there xD
I would like to see more references and information come out for Anton-044 and Keiichi-047.
"And most of the crew on the Pillar of Autumn never had a chance to be revived from cryo," the Chief said. "They could have been jettisoned before the ship went down. Move us toward them. Docking thrusters only."
Therefore, what people were saying about all cryo tubes being ejected was inaccurate. It was likely only Linda, to keep her out of Covenant hands.
modest marsh
There were a couple other pods he found
versed helm
Do we know if Keiichi-047 is alive?
modest marsh
But they were dead
modest marsh
I believe so
versed helm
Well, there you go. In haste, the entire section was jettisoned.
Probably took a squad of Marines and some heavy lift gear to escort her through the ship to a jettisonable environment.
I doubt they can just thunk tubes straight out into space from the bay.
modest marsh
Chief seems to think others besides linda may have been jettisoned
He didn’t even expect her
versed helm
Well he'd have to reason to, even if it was specifically her.
"They could have been jettisoned before the ship went down."
He's not exactly quoting protocol there, is he?
modest marsh
I misspoke when suggesting this was a widespread practice but it definitely seems like something the UNSC practices to minimize casualties
It is very sensible if the ship is unrecoverable
versed helm
True. But it's also a practice that would occur at the risk that those troops would be inaccessible should the be needed.
modest marsh
What’s the alternative? Leave them on a crashing ship?
versed helm
Or, if the pods were fitted with any kind of retrieval beacon, they'd be easy prey.
Well, yeah. That is the alternative.
But they may survive the crash, and then attempts to recover the ship's material would allow them to be thawed out and to not face certain death at the hands of Covenant hunter-killer teams.
Or alternately, the most moral option would be to thaw them out, give them a rifle and let them experience their last hours of life conscious and fighting.
Even if you have to pull a dangerous emergency thaw, which would kill some of them.
modest marsh
Crash landings of UNSC battleships have a net 0 survival rate unless you’re in a cryopod
Or the Infinity
versed helm
I mean, awful small sample space there.
Actually weren't there survivors of a prowler crash in Silent Storm?
modest marsh
That crash was far less violent than the Autumn’s I imagine, and it left even Sgt Johnson incapacitated
versed helm
Who then died horrifically.
modest marsh
Prowlers are comparatively small
versed helm
Well, it's still a crash. You understand the point - it's possible to survive.
So it's not true that there's a net 0 survival rate of UNSC battleship crash landings.
modest marsh
Prowler isn’t a battleship though is it?
modest marsh
why are you always so hostile?
carmine sleet
Yeah, I don't see why you needed to call them that
versed helm
Partly because I have an abrasive manner at times, partly because I find you pretty condescending. Which may be hypocritical, I dunno.
I'll say sorry, if you want.
modest marsh
I wasn’t being condescending, i was stating my thought process
A prowler is a light stealth vessel
The pillar of autumn is a ship that is completely redesigned specifically for heavy combat and killed multiple Covenant capital ships singlehandedly
versed helm
Well tone is all in the way you express yourself, and things can get misread in text. For instance, if I'd actually been able to say "smartass" out loud, it would've come off with more levity.
And I'd answer that point by saying that there's many other factors which would dictate crash survivability than sheer size.
For one, velocity - to what extent was either ship able to control its descent? The Autumn seemed to do alright.
modest marsh
It’s not designed for atmospheric entry at all
versed helm
For two, inertial compensation - is it active, to what extent can it protect the occupants?
What did the ship hit? The Autumn just slid across a desert shelf.
For all we know, the prowler could've smashed home at ten, twenty times the velocity of the Autumn.
modest marsh
The thing that concerns me most is hull breaches and life-support functions during the crash itself
Also the prowler was embedded in a wall
modest marsh
It couldn’t have been going that fast or it would’ve shattered either the wall or itself
versed helm
Well it clearly compromised the integrity of the wall to bury itself, and these ships are obviously made to withstand exceptional stress.
versed helm
Cool! And the Autumn landed and scraped along the ground of a desert.
Its descent was obviously controlled.
rough hatch
^
modest marsh
Right, I’m not that worried about the impact itself
As I said, life support is the greater issue
versed helm
My overarching argument is that the odds of surviving that, in or out of cryo, may be higher than being consigned to drift in space for an unknown length of time at the mercy of Covenant hunter killers.
I don't think that's a statement you can universally disprove.
modest marsh
Even the captain jumped ship 👀
versed helm
Also, why's life support an issue if you're in a perfectly breathable atmosphere?
modest marsh
Before that
modest marsh
A ship reentering gets pretty hot
rough hatch
Can someone enlighten me as to what we're discussing.
modest marsh
Especially when it has multiple unresolved hull breaches
rough hatch
I can't be bothered to scroll up
versed helm
Maggruber, do you consider any argument you make sufficient to defeat the following statement: "There may be situations in which it is both morally and practically the better option to have soldiers either remain in cryo or active on the ship than to jettison them into space during an intentional crash."
modest marsh
As we see it in The Maw there’s several exposed segments of the ship to various crew compartments
I can agree to that since cryo seems pretty good at protecting the occupants
versed helm
I mean, it is a sealed environment.
rough hatch
I don't think you understand the statement
modest marsh
But in the case of at-risk segments of the ship?
The cryo bay was assaulted by Covenant Elites
It was one of the first places they went
versed helm
To be fair, in order to be able to practically jettison the occupants of a cryo bay it would have to be an at-risk segment of the ship.
It'd have to be on some of the outermost layers.
And to be fair, Covenant soldiers were everywhere.
modest marsh
They have a trash chute
versed helm
They were fighting their way into the bridge at points.
modest marsh
Cortana specifically mentions they were trying to find the “demons” before they woke up
modest marsh
Yes
versed helm
If I were Cortana and I knew the Covenant hadn't been specifically attempting to catch Chief, I'd probably make that joke.
It is probably a boarding priority to secure cryo chambers, though.
modest marsh
A Major is seen in both instances near or at the cryo bay, the order of events suggests that that was one of their first targets on the ship after the boarding action
versed helm
Since their occupants may still be waking up and moving to arm themselves.
rough hatch
I mean, they were all over the ships. It's not unlikely that they accidentally stumbled into cryo...
modest marsh
Why are three elites in an empty room, one of whom is an officer
“Catch you napping” is Cortana pointing out their fairly obvious intentions
rough hatch
Cortana always makes witty comments
versed helm
It's not unheard of for Elites to operate free of their typical lance formations in heavy infantry formations, either.
modest marsh
They tend to have a point
versed helm
Formations which would be useful for hitting targets of high value, yes.
modest marsh
In the cryobay?
versed helm
Like awakening crew members.
modest marsh
An empty cryo bay
versed helm
Right. I guess they hacked the ship's systems to know it was empty before they arrived.
Magg, I'm sorry, this is why I get frustrated with you sometimes.
Condescending's not the right word.
I don't think you really give statements a fair go or try and open your mind to them if they don't gel immediately with what you believe. God knows I'm guilty of that too.
rough hatch
Your arguments are based on 'what' and 'if' not facts within the expanded universe
versed helm
You're often unrealistically over-literal, I think.
modest marsh
My interpretation is that it’s supposed to be a goofy moment where the first Elite, who had seen Chief as he was leaving, was looking for him in same said room
“Where’d he go???”
versed helm
That joke still works if the Elite doesn't specifically know he's looking for Chief, on an ironic level.
I suppose the Covenant could've been aware of Chief's presence because they were aware that the Spartans which scuttled the station on Reach as-per the Cole Protocol came from the Autumn.
Or maybe they successfully intruded into the PoA's systems to get a readout of crew.
Those are possibilities.
It is also possible it's coincidental or not entirely related to Chief.
Cortana's statement is about as far from definitive as it's possible to get, because she was making light of the situation.
modest marsh
Isn’t it quite convenient that it was an Elite Major with two other Elites at his flank looking inside the same room when another Elite Major had just been where he saw Chief?