It didnt exist in canon before that
#lore-and-universe
last anchor
stoic hamlet
It’s also been retconned to be a general designation for all Spartans
versed helm
Personally, I am reluctant because I share your lack of an idea of what those psychological impacts might be, and having read Halo novels and immersed myself in these characters and the Spartan ethos as much as all of you have, I cannot see these stoic, upstanding warriors having some kind of freak out over it. I can see them being very happy, and maybe a little confused.
Noble 6 hyper lethal yet dies to a few elites
limpid meadow
And thank god for that
stoic hamlet
Yep, amen to that retcon
versed helm
As 6 on legendary you kill like 10 elites a room then die to 3 elites
limpid meadow
Well, to be clear, the psychological angle is just an in-universe justification.
My real concern comes from IRL stuff.
versed helm
That's bassicly the ending
stoic hamlet
Plenty of Spartans have died in lore to single Covenant troops. @versed helm
versed helm
I only ever speak in-universe. It's one of my peculiarities.
stoic hamlet
Many of them II’s
stoic hamlet
Grace did die to one brute
limpid meadow
Basically, if the Spartan-IIs knew about the refielded washouts, it would, in my mind, cause some issues with older stories that would need retcons to address.
And I generally like to avoid retconning things
versed helm
Use the species name please
inner basin
It can be justified but not confirmed at this point on what the true reason actually is. I mean how would you act seeing someone you thought dead return. You wouldn’t think it would hinder your performance or at least see how it could
versed helm
Oh yes I was playing reach and it said preferred species spartan or elite
stoic hamlet
Brute is easier to type out in this fast moving chat
inner basin
Human for life
versed helm
Well, this has been a productive conversation. I hope the specific process of this re-integration is somehow resolved over time.
inner basin
As do I
versed helm
That being said, personally I am of the opinion that Halo typically isn't retconned enough. Sometimes you need to cull a little to maintain coherency, and I think coherency goes hand in hand with compellingness.
Anyway let's start our chat about Jiralhanae designation brutes
stoic hamlet
Please no lol
I wouldn’t mind a few retcons to Spartan III numbers. God knows we need them
inner basin
Nope, to the Brutes that is
stoic hamlet
Like it’s obvious the 300 limit has been dead and gone for years
But we don’t have exact numbers.
limpid meadow
For get Brutes. Forget Jiralhanae. True fans only call them Jir'a'ul
versed helm
It is the nature of the retcon that makes it welcome or unwelcome. I don't mean books being stricken from canon, I just mean crafty edits or rewritten segments on Waypoint or whatever. Just little fixer-uppers for us to obsess over.
stoic hamlet
There’s at least 320 for Alpha Company alone
versed helm
No real fans call them thel vadamee
limpid meadow
Alpha was only 300
stoic hamlet
No I mean the total augmentee’s @limpid meadow
limpid meadow
The number going over 300 come from the 400+ "applicants"
modest marsh
The circumstances behind John’s incursion with the Brute in First Strike often has important context that goes over people’s heads
inner basin
I think it was 418 for Alpha
stoic hamlet
Because there was way more than 300 augmented
limpid meadow
Why would there need to be 320 augmented?
stoic hamlet
I’m saying there was at least that many
modest marsh
Namely for the entirety of the story, John was at the absolute worst shape we’ve seen him in
versed helm
We need a game where we play as a Jiralhanae
stoic hamlet
To account for those removed
limpid meadow
Do we need to account for them though?
versed helm
Halo: Catching Breakfast
inner basin
Well there wasn’t exactly 20 removed as we actually have no idea how many were removed
versed helm
Halo: RIP Marine bois
limpid meadow
I know Ghosts of Onyx says 300 were at the suicide missions, but why not just retcon those numbers?
inner basin
Well there was 300 who died in Prometheus @limpid meadow
stoic hamlet
To date, we know of 7 Alpha’s removes from the Company with the obvious knowledge of more.
And change it to what? Less?
versed helm
Halo: Jiralhanae sangheli unggoy fringe San'shyum kig yar
limpid meadow
So why not retcon the number deployed in PROMETHEUS and TORPEDO?
modest marsh
There’s quite a few Spartans who were removed from their companies
limpid meadow
Yeah
versed helm
Huragok time 
stoic hamlet
Have Kurt beg for more spots, he’s already technically done it in canon with Gamma.
versed helm
I'm gonna call it - one of the biggest things the Haloverse needs right now is some material with armoured SIIIs and SIIs operating together.
stoic hamlet
MJOLNIR armoured S-III’s?
modest marsh
Halo Infinite
stoic hamlet
I agree
versed helm
Blue team and NOBLE. Now there's a teamup. And yes, Canadian.
inner basin
There was at Tribute @versed helm
stoic hamlet
Oh god if we could play/see Gammas in infinite swoons
limpid meadow
That definitely wouldn't happen except post-war
modest marsh
Calling it now, Hazel and Owen will make appearances as minor characters in Infinite
versed helm
Why wouldn't it?
stoic hamlet
It happened on Tribute
modest marsh
Specifically NOBLE seems unlikely
limpid meadow
Did it?
stoic hamlet
Unless they retcon it to be only II’s or only III’s
Yeah it was a combined unit IIRC
limpid meadow
We know Spartan-II and Spartan-III teams were deployed, but whether or not they worked together hasn't been stated
inner basin
Yeah but the Spartan-III fireteam died and it’s believed that it was Black Team at Tribute
limpid meadow
As I recall
stoic hamlet
Black weren’t at Tribute
They were deployed behind enemy lines to stop their supply lines to tribute
versed helm
More specifically what I am referring to is teams of the sort that NOBLE is working alongside mainline SII teams. I think it would be a tactical necessity almost, during the war, and also really cool to see.
stoic hamlet
I just want more Gammas ;-;
inner basin
It would make sense for it to be them as after Tribute then they were deployed elsewhere. Read Battle of Tribute on Halopedia
stoic hamlet
The story’s they appear in mention tribute but they weren’t deployed there
Unless there’s been a. Retcon
inner basin
Just read Battle of Tribute. There is a citation saying it really only could be Black Team
versed helm
Question - did NOBLE and similar teams utilize Mark IV prior to their Mark V?
stoic hamlet
I mean, Owen did
limpid meadow
Mainline SII teams didn't work with Spartan-III teams, if Ghosts of Onyx is anything to go on
Blue Team certainly didn't know about the IIIs
stoic hamlet
The mainline teams didn’t yeah
limpid meadow
Washout groups could be possible
versed helm
And Johnson and Chief weren't friends before Installation 04, if First Strike is anything to go on.
stoic hamlet
Only post war did Blue work with Saber
inner basin
stoic hamlet
That’s a smaller change
inner basin
Check that link out
limpid meadow
And they aren't friends in Silent Storm
stoic hamlet
Having Blue know about the III’s would definitely affect the reveal
Especially if they worked with Alphas
limpid meadow
There's nothing explicitly stating the two hadn't met prior to the Fall of Reach.
stoic hamlet
I’m aware of the Battle of Tribute.
versed helm
The devil's in the context. But I suppose we differ.
inner basin
There was a Spartan-II and Spartan-III team fighting and the IIIs stayed behind allowing survivors to escape ultimately resulting in the IIIs death
stoic hamlet
But you’re forgetting Omega @inner basin
versed helm
Let's commit reach
inner basin
It could be Omega tbf
stoic hamlet
They could also have been deployed
modest marsh
The best part of Silent Storm is when Johnson looks at the camera, raises an eyebrow, and is outwardly confused why he’s even in this story
inner basin
But it wouldn’t include Red Team in Omega as they were on SoF at this point
versed helm
I do, however, see Silent Storm as certain proof of the benefits of going over the heads of the earlier books.
But I revere the classics as much as the rest of you do.
stoic hamlet
Well yeah, obviously
inner basin
It could even be another team of washouts
versed helm
I would like to see them tastefully updated and contextually adjusted. But failing that, they should be regarded as dubious.
modest marsh
Silent Storm was a smart way of doing it because it very closely acknowledged the fact it was making some questionable allowances and did the best it could to integrate that narrative organically without outright retconning things
versed helm
TFoR, perhaps less so, given how many printings it's gotten and how recently.
stoic hamlet
Silent Storm was the way to go about things
versed helm
But then again, TFoR is just as guilty of questionable continuity regarding Johnson as The Flood and First Strike.
stoic hamlet
Still slightly peeved Oblivion won’t feature Green or Gold teams though
inner basin
TFoR is so confusing to the lore with Spartan-IIs and Spartan-IIIs deaths along with ret-cons makes it more confusing
versed helm
Did any of you know there was spartan 0s aka humans
modest marsh
Wow no way
stoic hamlet
Holy moly I never knew
modest marsh
That’s incredible
inner basin
Just humans are boring @versed helm
modest marsh
Nah
versed helm
The idea of any group of Spartans being kept away from any other, the UNSC prioritizing these silly psychological concerns over effectively using and massing their resources, is absolutely absurd to me in a way Halo rarely is.
And it stands in the way of potentially awesome stories. It is unhealthy.
modest marsh
Well an argument can be made that information isn’t pertinent to the characters we happen to follow and thus was shared on a need-to-know basis
stoic hamlet
^^
inner basin
Yeah well how do you know that the effectiveness of the Spartan-IIs wouldn’t be affected seeing their once dead comrades being alive?
modest marsh
Jorge obviously knew
stoic hamlet
Kurt might have known as well
versed helm
Because S-IIs are not emotionally vulnerable individuals.
versed helm
Even Naomi, confronted with a literal deconstruction of her heartbreaking past, held it together admirably.
stoic hamlet
They’d differ hard
modest marsh
Spartan-IIs are not really strategic thinkers by design and thus supplying them with non-mission specific information could be considered an unnecessary diversion of their attention
inner basin
I’d beg to differ when some killed themselves after encountering their clones and struggled seeing their clones
modest marsh
Those were unstable kids
versed helm
They were not the Spartan IIs who made it to the point of wearing MJOLNIR.
inner basin
Well it doesn’t count out the fact that they aren’t vulnerable
versed helm
I tend to have some pretty thorough objections to interpretations which treat Spartans as psychologically compromised.
limpid meadow
I don't think short term shock was the main concern
versed helm
Though that may be a little insensitive to certain people, in retrospect.
modest marsh
I don’t think it’s an issue of “oh, Section-III deliberately hid this information from the Spartan-IIs because reasons”
inner basin
There’s nothing concrete to confirm how they would react seeing fellow dead comrades so we really can’t say for sure
limpid meadow
Long-term effects were more likely what Halsey, and maybe the UNSC, would be worried about.
modest marsh
It just doesn’t occur as useful
limpid meadow
Such as how learning of the lie might affect loyalty down the line
versed helm
Chief believed most of the SIIs were dead. He thought Linda was especially dead.
limpid meadow
That's completely different
feral perch
All the Spartans know about all the other Spartans now...
versed helm
So it's not the re-emerging dead friends aspect, it's the distrust of ONI and UNSC aspect, right?
limpid meadow
That would be my guess
inner basin
The Linda situation he wasn’t lied to, whereas with the others he was
feral perch
You know what I mean, each generation knew about what came before it, perhaps bar ORION.
limpid meadow
That learning they were lied to could lead to distrust
stoic hamlet
Nvm
feral perch
As of 2559 anyway.
stoic hamlet
Yeah I just didn’t read the entire bit
versed helm
I don't believe he was explicitly told none of the washouts would be salvageable. Actually, question of the day, were Red team's members counted amongst the dead, or merely the wounded?
stoic hamlet
Well the IV’s have a watered down version of things
inner basin
It doesn’t do them any favours let’s say seeing their dead friends
versed helm
It's entirely likely if they were known to be wounded that they would've been in correspondence with the other SIIs, is all.
But then again, the ruddy Halsey journal.
feral perch
I wouldn't go that far. It seems that Spartan teams were mostly kept in the dark about things beyond their immediate concern.
limpid meadow
We don't know if Red Team were among the crippled or dead
versed helm
As much as I agree with her, that woman annoys me sometimes.
limpid meadow
Just that they were washouts
feral perch
We know they weren't dead though.
limpid meadow
No we don't
stoic hamlet
The IV’s have a “PR’d interpretation of the prior generations.
Also I’m gonna have to lurk instead of contribute, half my messages aren’t going through and stuff.
modest marsh
They could have been resuscitated
feral perch
Define dead.
modest marsh
If they were dead that is
limpid meadow
"Washout" refers both to the 12 cripppled and the 30 "killed"
Those killed were put into cry so they might be resuscitated and even fielded.
Serin Osman was among those "killed" and was later resuscitated
feral perch
She actually died?
limpid meadow
To give the survivors closure
feral perch
I don't remember reading that in Kilo-5
limpid meadow
It's when Naomi and Serin meet
inner basin
She was. Serin-029 I believe was her candidate number
versed helm
"To give the survivors closure" is a problematic sentence.
It implies they needed it, or that closure is better than justified hope.
feral perch
That's not what Halopedia says.
inner basin
How? If the people they trained with (considering their age) died, it makes sense at the time
feral perch
While she failed the augmentation process, she still possesses a few of the enhancements, though no skeletal augmentation. The Office of Naval Intelligence took custody of her when she was 14 years old; they repaired the damage done by the failed augmentation process, educated her further, and put her into the ONI commanders' program.
I'm sure she didn't actually die.
versed helm
Wait - Naomi met Serin, who she believed to be dead.
No freakout. She was perfectly fine.
Because she was a Spartan II.
She was like momentary "whuh" and then "ayyy"
inner basin
But Serin was crippled, not killed
quartz willow
Yea
inner basin
According to that piece of text anyways
versed helm
It's not a matter of actually happened, it's a matter of what was believed to have happened.
And I thought Naomi didn't realize Serin had survived.
limpid meadow
Serin was among those killed
limpid meadow
I can get the text from Glasslands
feral perch
Great.
versed helm
If you'd like to, I'd appreciate it.
inner basin
Well in Halopedia it says she was crippled, not killed judging by that piece of text
feral perch
I'm betting this is all about interpretation.
versed helm
What the mainline SIIs knew.
inner basin
No more interpretations, I gone through that earlier and it didn’t end the argument
versed helm
We're just trying to uncover sources and rationalize them so that our interpretations can be as justified and educated as possible.
Because we may have to explain this to others in future.
inner basin
The mainline Spartan-IIs knew who were crippled
versed helm
Well I guess we're waiting on the prodigal son now.
feral perch
They knew Fhajad was crippled at least.
inner basin
They all were at the “funeral”
limpid meadow
From when Serin and Naomi meet in Glasslands:
“We thought you’d died,” Naomi said.```Is that all?
limpid meadow
Basically
feral perch
So no solid confirmation that she actually died and was resuscitated; just that she was counted among the dead and ONI may have lied about it.
versed helm
Sharp intake of breath
inner basin
Doesn’t say if she died though
limpid meadow
She was among the 30 reported dead
She wasn't among the 12 crippled
The latter were present at the funeral
versed helm
Beast, the point is, Naomi thought she was dead, and didn't freak out when she found that she wasn't.
She just Naomi'd.
limpid meadow
All 30 reportedly killed were put in cryo
feral perch
I thought they were ejected into space?
inner basin
Naomi is one individual of Spartan-IIs however
versed helm
I actually like Naomi, tbh. She was a sick lass.
limpid meadow
@versed helm Again, I don't think short-term was what Halsey or the UNSC worried about
inner basin
@feral perch they were not, the caskets were empty
versed helm
Cheeki edit, I saw that. It's an assumption that the UNSC were worried or acted on that worry.
Or were still acting on it as the war continued on.
feral perch
Ah, okay.
versed helm
Halsey worries, it's what she does.
feral perch
It's been a little while since I read The Fall of Reach.
inner basin
Well Halsey did create the Spartan-II program, did she not?
versed helm
Oi
inner basin
It would be best to follow her advice
feral perch
Well, Halopedia also says this: Officially, thirty Spartan candidates were killed when they failed to adapt to their physical enhancements; the only identified fatality was SPARTAN-073. However, at least one of the candidates allegedly killed by the augmentation procedures actually lived and were pressed into ONI service, their survival kept secret from their peers. Serin-019 became an ONI operative. This was presumably made possible by Halsey's insistence that no invasive autopsies be performed and that the funeral for those killed by the procedures be closed-casket, the cadavers instead remaining in cold storage. The doctor considered that some of the deceased Spartans may some day be resuscitated and placed into active service; by June 27, 2525, rehabilitation protocols were in development for 80% of the washouts, with AIs predicting a total survival rate as high as 50%. Halsey also noted her consternation over what ONI may do with a secret team of officially deceased Spartans, coincidentally predicting Black Team's survival.
inner basin
She knows the Spartan-IIs the best
limpid meadow
The augmentations
versed helm
I mean specifically, obviously xD
versed helm
It must've been something specific that was responsible for a high proportion of deaths but also manageable.
limpid meadow
Just that their bodies rejects one or more of the procedures
limpid meadow
There were multiple procedures, any of which would have been rejected by the body
inner basin
I mean the technology was less advanced which would also could be a factor as Spartan-III augmentations were at 100% success rates
limpid meadow
Different washouts had different issues.
It's explored a little in "The Fall of Reach", a bit more in Halsey's Journal
versed helm
But 50% resuscitation. That is a mad number.
limpid meadow
Halsey was looking into that, but it's not confirmed if she did or not
versed helm
I'm suggesting that there might be a trend instead of everything being on an individual basis.
limpid meadow
There were trends
versed helm
One particular process which caused death but also could be undone.
limpid meadow
I don't think it's that simple
versed helm
I dunno. Not saying it as like, an important canonical thing.
Just idle yammer, really.
But I am pretty fascinated by the medical tech of the UNSC and 26th century humanity as a whole.
Particularly in terms of organ replacement and that sort of stuff.
limpid meadow
Point is, some Spartans' bodies rejected one or more of the augmentations. Some were mild enough to survive, others were so severe they were killed
versed helm
I am very aware of that point - trust me.
limpid meadow
Resuscitation likely wasn't too dissimilar to what Halsey was able to do for Linda
versed helm
That's fair enough.
Though it begs the question about when the UNSC declares you to be dead, if it is within their power to rebuild you in that way.
limpid meadow
Depends on what the damage is
And being part of a super-secret program during a hostile alien genocide probably helps
feral perch
I wish Eric Nylund had stated explicitly how James' arm was replaced in TFoR.
limpid meadow
Even the bone replacements Halsey was looking into in 2525 were pretty advanced stuff, never mind replacing the entire arm
humble yacht
Organs are generally composed of a single type of tissue
Arms are multiple tissue types
very much more complicated
limpid meadow
@feral perch Give the time frame, the only option for James would have been a prosthetic arm
humble yacht
not only would you have to regenerate each tissue, you'd have to get them to interact correctly
feral perch
I'm thinking the same.
humble yacht
I'm sure they have ways of concealing prostheses to make them appear more lifelike
feral perch
Still, I remember reading the novel when I was around eleven, and thinking they sent James on Operation: RED FLAG without any kind of replacement arm.
limpid meadow
Though I imagine it could be done for the right price
humble yacht
I doubt everyone with a prosthetic kept it raw like Kat
limpid meadow
The few examples of prosthetics we have all have them looking mechnical
None that were disguised to look natural
humble yacht
Are they all military examples?
humble yacht
I wouldn't be surprised if civilian options for prostheses included some sort of covering to make it look more pleasing
limpid meadow
Nor would I
humble yacht
but a soldier probably doesn't care too much about how their prosthetic looks; function over form, and whatnot
limpid meadow
Funny ting I only recently noticed, but Pawel Czernek from the Halo 3 "Museum" ad has a prosthetic leg
All these years and I never noticed until I was doing research for my video on Will-043 and Believe about a year ago
abstract zealot
Do you think Gretchens prosthetic leg is exposed like the prosthetic arm that we see from Reach, or do you think it is "inside" the leg armor?
Sorry if that has already been asked lol
carmine sleet
I feel like it's likely inside leg armour since I doubt the prosthetic has the electromagnets that would allow her to stand on the exterior of a ship in space if she was ever in an EVA operation
limpid meadow
It goes unmentioned in the book, but I like to think it's under the armor
@carmine sleet excellent point
abstract zealot
Yeah that’s what I think too. Plus I feel while reading it seems to give off the impression that it’s within the leg armor. At least to me it does.
carmine sleet
Thanks Toa
abstract zealot
Plus I think having an armor set only having one leg may look both weird and may actually mess up how the armor itself functions.
carmine sleet
I don't think it would mess up how it functions
abstract zealot
Well I don’t mean like fully, but I’m more referring to the practicality of it (worded it wrong and should’ve been more specific). Having the leg exposed gives someone a target to shoot. That’s why I always thought having the prosthetic arm exposed on Reach was kind of dumb.
feral perch
Would it have been able to handle Mjolnir?
carmine sleet
I mean, I'd rather lose the prosthetic arm than the prosthetic leg. Losing the arm doesn't impact your ability to move about nearly as much as losing the leg
abstract zealot
Exactly.
feral perch
I mean, can there be prosthetics that can harness Mjolnir?
abstract zealot
And most likely.
feral perch
So could someone create an exoskeleton, put it inside a suit of Mjolnir, put an AI in the exoskeleton, and have a practical robot soldier?
abstract zealot
They could, but it would be dumb.
feral perch
You mean awesome
abstract zealot
At that point you can just make a robotic soldier with the materials you use for the armor.
carmine sleet
And having a robot wearing a suit of armour is redundant anyway since robots are stronger than humans anyway
feral perch
Mjolnir would make them even stronger
abstract zealot
Not unless they’re made from the same components of Mjolnir.
And at that there would be many variants of them too. Some with extra armor.
abstract zealot
If you’re making a robotic soldier in the Halo universe for the UNSC, it would be smart to make the armor and shielding the way Mjolnir is made.
Just adjust it for AI use and not human.
feral perch
I was thinking more in the way of Kat's prosthetic arm, but expanded into a whole body and put inside Mjolnir.
I don't think her prosthetic is as strong as a Spartan-II's arm inside a Mjolnir sleeve.
high marsh
Pretty much
abstract zealot
I know. That’s why I was calling it pointless. That’s just adding an extra step.
And it probably would be given an SIIs arm is pretty much as strong as metal.
feral perch
Which is why I don't think she had armor covering the prosthetic; the Mjolnir may have broken the arm.
I think an S-II's arm is stronger than metal.
high marsh
It is... well dependent on the metal really... 😅
abstract zealot
Not entirely. It even says that they didn’t wanna inform her friends that she was coming back into additive service if the prosthetics didn’t work.
Remember the advances between 2552 to 2558.
Plus on top of that the prosthetics can be made out of metal that are stronger than the bones of a Spartan if needed. So the prosthetics breaking within the armor isn’t much of a concern to me at least.
feral perch
Hm.
Things would be clearer if Bungie weren't as concerned with the cool factor.
But I'm not sure if that would actually be better.
abstract zealot
Well it’s better than having it exposed.
Can make you more of a target.
Well it’s better than having it exposed.
Well it’s better than having it exposed.
My messages aren’t sending properly
versed helm
Are Jiralhanae classed is intelligent life
Hmm
stoic hamlet
I mean, yes
versed helm
If Jiralhanae are classed as intelligent then worms should be classed as intelligent oh wait....
What about lizards oh ye sangheli
safe siren
With worms you are talking about the legkolo?
versed helm
Yes @safe siren
safe siren
The Legkolo are fairly smart in reality, they are a Tier 3 society, like the humans.
versed helm
Ik it's just a fan joke
safe siren
oh, ok.
stoic hamlet
Arguably they’d be far smarter had they not been stagnated by the Covenant
last anchor
They seem pretty happy where they are for the most part. They're not quite "stupid" just...differently sentient.
They are, after all, gesalt intelligences of giant worms so.
stoic hamlet
Yeah. They’re not stupid, just, they could have been smarter/more advanced without the Covenant
Maybe
Maybe not
inner basin
They usually tend to be found around Forerunner structures I believe
safe siren
They eat forerunner metals, some of them atleast.
inner basin
Yeah, so they’d be found around Forerunner structures @safe siren
deft wagon
Didn't they help the forerunners
cunning path
no they just lived around them i think
supple field
emmm ok i tried really hard, but reading like 150+ message with my terrible english already exhausted me.
what are we on right now. and for the far topic. i am convince that S-III is pretty good dispite of my little bias point of likeing the S-II
quiet frigate
S-3 were very good. If they weren't trained to be give their all via suicide missions and throwing their life away the covenant would have glassed a significant portion of human colonies.
S-4 on the other hand is just half cyborg half human stuff
Not really interesting
unique rune
half cyborg half human stuff
Er. That is... incorrect, but alright.
quiet frigate
O.o but i thought they had some of their organic parts replaced with machines to enhance them?
unique rune
Not with machines, as I understand it. They use biological, lab-grown replacement organs that have been engineered specifically to increase performance.
split tide
Why are UNSC ground forces actually inferior to modern U.S. military ground forces?
When did the ground component of the UNSC armed forces begin to stagnate?
Insurrection period?
Beforehand?
versed helm
technically in comparison the UNSC's ground forces are leagues above modern day
but if you're comparing them to the covenant, then humans in general will be inferior
cunning path
well there armour and light arms fire is pretty much the same just looks different
to modern army's
versed helm
the AR uses 7.62x51mm NATO rounds iirc
split tide
The MA5B is effective at 300 yards, but that clearly is not accurately, as seen in gameplay. It is a fully automatic, .308 caliber assault rifle, a concept that does not work effectively. In all essence, the MA5 series is essentially a very powerful submachine gun.
split tide
Regardless, claiming that the fully automatic .308 assault rifle without a selector is accurate at 300 yards is optimistic at best.
versed helm
it's not exactly a .308
split tide
7.62x51 is .308
versed helm
the 7.62x51 is derived from a .308, but they arent the same
split tide
.308 is a civilian designation for the cartridge, but yes you're correct, they aren't exactly the same. Military loads are hotter.
split tide
Let's also look at the M808 Scorpion.
cunning path
i feel like the turret would be really bad in actual combat
just because the rotating bit is so exposed
split tide
it looks great. It must have an auto loader for the 90mm gun, and a significant amount of armor in order to weigh over 60 tons and lack a traditional turret.
Just like you said, however, actual combat situations in that tank would end with the turret being ripped to shreds.
Modern tanks are designed to be as low to the ground as possible but still have enough ground clearance to resist anti-tank mines. Not only is the Scorpion extremely tall, it also has minimal ground clearance at best.
cunning path
warthogs are also really bad in combat situations they are just so open but getting somewhere quickly would be effective
split tide
Soldiers complain about the openness of Humvees, imagine their complaints if they were using Warthogs.
cunning path
true that
versed helm
yes but most Humvees arent equipped with titanium typically,
split tide
that isn't the problem. There's practically no cover for the driver, passenger, or gunner.
versed helm
Warthogs are massive to be fair
a normal human sitting in one is typically about as equally protected, if not more, to ground fire than a humvee
cunning path
a sniper on a hill would have a shot in any of the people inside while in a humvee you have a roof so you dont exactly know where to shoot but if it had a titanium roof you wouldn't even be able to shoot into it
split tide
ever seen a Humvee?
versed helm
yes, but a sniper would have a shot on any light terrain vehicle regardless of how advanced
cunning path
i guess so
split tide
no, but just look at it and compare it to the Warthog. Lol
The Warthog doesn't even have doors or a roof
versed helm
a single seat in a warthog is about 2x the size of a seat in a humvee
there's a much higher ceiling gap
you're more protected by the fact the wind shield is about 3ft over your head
and the sides come up to your elbows/shoulders
dreamy marlin
Although I mean Spartans are giants but they make a warthog look small
split tide
nevermind the wind shield, the Warthog has zero protection on the sides for the driver or passenger
cunning path
any way what do you think would be more effective a mongoose or a modern quad bike i know they are the same thing but still
split tide
the Mongoose is very, very long
versed helm
for marines warthogs cover the side of the body
dreamy marlin
Reminds me of a fully grown person on a child's riding toy
cunning path
i dont know about that
versed helm
@split tide The MA5 does have a selector. It's also quite obviously got electronic targeting of some nature and a potent recoil reduction system, as all MA-assault rifles do, referencing TFoR when Chief is examining his MA2B and comparing it to MA5Bs.
The craziest thing about the MA5, assuming all the sci-fi elements work, is that it's a bullpup rifle with length of an M16.
Seems like overkill to have a 30" barrel - I can only presume it's related to the ammunition, which is the other silly part.
7.62 isn't the silly part, it's the fact that it's 7.62 NATO. A projectile is a projectile, but if it was a straight-cased round of the UNSC's or Misriah Armory's design using some kind of hyper-efficient propellant, 32 or 36 rounds could actually fit in one of the seen magazines.
split tide
We're looking at a gun that is supposedly accurate at 300 yards maximum, but is also somehow very easy to use fully automatic?
And, apparently, is also select fire?
versed helm
There are obvious fire selectors on the model.
split tide
You mean that this rifle, with a barrel that is realistically 20 inches long, is accurate at a maximum of 300 yards?
versed helm
I would suggest that the answer is that that figure - if you're like me and are really phishing for realism in Halo - ought to be disputed and ignored. There is precedent for it in the Encyclopedia, which is oftentimes very silly and contradictory.
dreamy marlin
An assault rifle with a select a fire makes me think of a br
versed helm
The MA5 likely has extreme effective range by the standards of modern weapons, and certain book depictions appreciate that.
But if you don't want to ignore that statistic then no, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Or it's a figure that's considered your maximum effective range against troops with enhanced body armour or energy shields.
split tide
Most engagements are conducted at or under 300 yards. Maybe that's where the figure is determined?
dreamy marlin
I like halo and I get it's SciFi but some things are foolish
versed helm
But as we've seen, a UNSC Marine's chestplate is perfectly capable of stopping at least 2 of the rounds the MA5 fires at very close quarters - Mona Lisa.
split tide
If that's the case, my only complaint is the gigantic ammo meter on top in place of iron sights, which could be invaluable.
versed helm
It's likely armour has outpaced bullets, by the UNSC's own design.
dreamy marlin
That reminds me
versed helm
Well you'll be pleased to know, Michael, that recessed iron sights are actually present atop the cowling of the Halo 5 AR model.
Trust me, look at the awesome render from the creator on Artstation
dreamy marlin
how to you aim a magnum? It has sights but it's overshadowed by the 'hood' i guess
split tide
The gigantic slide on the 1st iteration of the Magnum makes me angry 😠
dreamy marlin
Hahaha
dreamy marlin
Kinda
versed helm
Are you guys not looking at the smart-linked optic?
dreamy marlin
I think it is a slide but I could be wrong
versed helm
I feel as if you might be.
dreamy marlin
and I've never played 5 but apparently you can aim with every weapon but still
versed helm
If you aim with the pistol in Halo 5, it projects a holographic display that actually hangs in the air in front of your Spartan.
split tide
I never played Halo 5. I'm glad iron sights are a mechanic now.
versed helm
Not even HUD. Just a literal holographic sight.
Same for the AR and SAW and most Covenant weapons.
There's little emitters on them.
dreamy marlin
Needler aim, interesting..
versed helm
No reason a Spartan would ever need to use that, since their HUD would fully allow for electronic targeting to function, but it doesn't matter.
I think it's most likely that troops concerned with their highly rugged targeting electronics failing would just bring along one of those "recon" (qausi-reflex) sights from Halo 5.
Just in-general.
Also crazy headcanon, the flashlight actually doubles as a sensor input for the MA5's systems.
Like one of those spycam/flashlight novelty spy toy thingos.
At least, on the MA5B and onwards, since the MA37 has an extruding camera device on its lil cowling.
You can kill a grunt with a headshot at 300m scoping/ADS with the halo 5 AR
300m is rated against normal human personnel
And the Halo Wars depiction of the MA5B rather does look like there's a glossy panel under the barrel and above the flashlight.
Specifically insurrectionists
Dark, if you really try and make that figure work in that way, armchair generals and operator types will laugh in your face very frequently.
Enjoy that, if you persist. I ain't following you.
considering this exists
in our world
today
and can effectively hit a target at well over 300m
and uses the exact same cartridge
I'm suggesting that 300m is ludicrously short, fool.
For a weapon with sophisticated targeting, that cartridge, and a barrel that is actually longer than that weapon.
well yeah. but i'd rather have a rating under the max, as opposed to over
split tide
I can't imagine the frustration UNSC infantry would theoretically feel during early ground engagements against Covenant infantry just because of their typical body armor worn by Elites.
versed helm
shielding's a pain
I'm guessing they learnt to bring along an ample supply of jackhammer tubes very early in the war.
Hence the Halo Wars upgrade.
"Yeah, this 102mm warhead is an antipersonnel tool now. What of it?"
That’s a scary thing to think about
split tide
One shot, one kill, probably doesn't apply to Elites wearing power armor.
versed helm
Would definitely do jack to a Zealot Class or higher
Their shields are stupidly strong
split tide
Luckily, however, the early plasma rifle iterations seem to be as effectively accurate as a submachine gun.
versed helm
Also the DMR absolutely exists and behaves the way it does because it fires a round which conjures ludicrously high chamber pressures that the cheaper MA5 could not withstand.
The round it fires is probably designated something like M118LR or M118DMR
While the MA5's one is probably like M118GU or M118AP.
Change my mind.
feral perch
You're quite passionate about firearms in science fiction, eh? I like that.
split tide
Make it functionally realistic or get out of my face.
versed helm
^ I agree with that sentiment.
feral perch
as long as it goes bang pop pow and looks neat, I'm good.
split tide
no
versed helm
Also all UNSC shotguns have to use extremely potent recoil reduction systems because the sheer recoil from the immensely powerful shells they fire would send a man flying backwards.
split tide
My guns that are five centuries in the future more advanced than the guns I can buy as an American citizen or I will boycott video games.
versed helm
Hence, why they are often used more as heavy weapons than standard infantry tools
feral perch
I want a realistic shotgun in video games.
versed helm
Real life buckshot isn't that effective against armour.
feral perch
Accurate enough to hunt ducks flying at range.
split tide
That 8-gauge must be firing depleted uranium
versed helm
Halo's buckshot would need to be going scary fast and be very heavy. Which means scary recoil.
feral perch
So instead of ducks, Drones/Buggers
versed helm
Yeah, exactly.
feral perch
I want a sniper shotgun
versed helm
Also want to see a representation of a UNSC shotgun using the semi-auto mode it apparently now has.
And also being fed from a drum because c'mon
Shotguns need drums
split tide
Shotguns need at least 20 round drum magazines that do not ever jam 😠
versed helm
Better legendary weapon than any of the ones in Halo 5, that'd be
split tide
if I do not get a Halo iteration of the AA-12 I will be outraged.
feral perch
Idk, the Promethean attachment Shotgun is pretty great
versed helm
Pew
feral perch
reloading five rounds in one
versed helm
Compared to
You get the picture
Let’s add a level of realism and have halos weapons jam randomly
feral perch
I'd like a burst-fire shotgun with shells loaded via belt
versed helm
:^ )
Would that be realistic?
For 26th century firearms?
Considering they are just that. Physical firearms. Yes
feral perch
you know what though, forget firearms
let's go with Bungie's original vision for the future - you drink a glass of water, and all your enemies die.
versed helm
I reckon that among an MA5's housekeeping functions are precision magnets and auto-unjamming mechanisms.
That would be very cool.
Obviously you don't need them because that would require a power source
And I don't think any weapon (save the obvious) should rely on working batteries
feral perch
hmm, unjamming weapon or glass of water
versed helm
But it's certainly a possibility
feral perch
I'll annihilate my enemies and stay hydrated
split tide
Ideally, we will have figured out a superior alternative to smokeless gunpowder as a propellant by the 26th century. But that's just me, I guess.
versed helm
Mhm
split tide
Maybe, by the 26th century, we will have perfected caseless ammunition.
They already have it.
versed helm
Some kind of super-efficient translating powder. High ratio of powder-to-gas, minimal mess.
Rapid burning.
Something that'd cause issues with barrels of modern materials, maybe, that the UNSC gets to play with because of all its titanium alloy super-metal toys.
split tide
The super duper submachine gun mass produced by the UNSC uses caseless ammunition, allowing it to hold great big heaps of ammunition in tiny magazines. Why on earth have they not figured out a rifle design using the same technology?
I need to know.
versed helm
Out-of-universe because spent brass is awesome.
In-universe, probably just logistics man. Or caseless ammunition not being as efficient to get to achieve optimal muzzle velocities.
versed helm
Come on, Bungie
split tide
fair
cunning path
is the mantis even logical
versed helm
Though the MA5 series has been around for 200 years. It was supposedly preceded in the UNSC Marine Corps by a caseless weapon called the HMG-38.
Kinda looks like a weapon halfway between a tommy gun and the M7.
I assume it fires HMG-calibre caseless ammunition, because it's more of an assault rifle in function.
Actually, we don't know for sure that it's caseless. But it looks that way to me.
Just to be clear.
split tide
It looks like it belongs in Minecraft smh
versed helm
There's another depiction in Mythos
On the page with the cheeki innie bois
Though it hasn't been verified
Looks a little better
Also I dunno about the Mantis. Maybe if you need mobile fire support on very precarious ground?
That's a whole argument I've yet to immerse myself in.
Looks cool, though.
split tide
thanks to the Covenants lack of any good field guns, it probably wouldn't be in any more danger to anti-tank weaponry than a Scorpion would.
Their main battle tank is more like self propelled artillery.
versed helm
It's effectively an assault gun in use.
A little like a Stug.
Though if you ask me, I'd say canonically speaking it's a fair bet that plasma small arms are all the AT weaponry Covenant troops would really need.
split tide
I guess
versed helm
A plasma weapon should realistically be extraordinarily lethal to anything without energy shields, burning great holes in whatever it hits that's not really tough and really heat-resistant.
split tide
but if their tanks use the same plasma as their rifles, are their tanks also one use throw-aways?
versed helm
And then you've got fuel-rod guns, I suppose.
I would guess that plasma weapons can actually be recharged quite easily, just not so practically. I've heard people suggesting that there are wireless charging ports for them - funny, I know - or that they have energy cells with similar characteristics to something like an Imperial Guardsman's lasrifle cells from Warhammer 40k.
We're yet to see any in-game indication, but they're certainly not deplete-and-forget, especially given the master-crafted ones in Halo 5.
cunning path
i feel like the mantis would get knocked over when a wraith cannon hits it
versed helm
It'd get knocked out of existence if it took a direct impact from a plasma mortar.
versed helm
Alright, maybe it can take one hit. But that's a lot of very hot plasma.
Mainly for light arms fire, I was talking.
cunning path
yep makes sense
modest marsh
@split tide note that the vast majority of “effective ranges” for weapons came from either the bungie website or the encyclopedia
split tide
Yeah I feel like the MA5 would be more like a SCAR-H, effectively speaking. But with a higher rate of controllable, automatic fire.
modest marsh
The spiker has a muzzle velocity of just over 70m/s and an effective range of 40m according to this
That would make it slower than an arrow fired by a longbow
Also, assuming no loss of mass, this would require each spike to be only 15 grams each
strong sage
@versed helm fam , can Spartan’s shield withstand a single plasma bolt from a predator’s tiny turret thingy? And those fired plasma right? Or different
versed helm
I think energy shields are typically much better at surviving plasma hits than solid armour.
Probably because of the way they control and dissipate energy, though we don't know nearly enough exact science for that.
If Dutch survived a hit, it's because ODST battle armour is very heavy.
modest marsh
No Predator Dutch
versed helm
I doubt there's much of anything that could withstand sustained plasma fire.
modest marsh
Not ODST Dutch
versed helm
AH
strong sage
Owhhhhh so its not plasma? Or it is plasma but they can configured their power settings
versed helm
I was very confused in general just now.
strong sage
Lol xD
versed helm
I thought the predator thing was an incorrect reference to a thing from Halo
Or something I just wasn't getting
One of those brute vehicles maybe
But they're prowlers, lol.
modest marsh
ODST armor shouldn’t be able to withstand plasma fire of any kind
ignore those two instances
versed helm
I can see it dispelling a hit or two but becoming useless.
modest marsh
By hit, you mean like grazing past it?
versed helm
And probably causing severe burns to the wearer in the process.
modest marsh
Well distance is important to factor in as well
strong sage
Speaking of odst , did they already adopted void armor as their new bdu?
modest marsh
A point blank shot is likely an order of magnitude more destructive than one from several dozen meters away
There’s a lot of wasted energy from a bolt that flies through the air spending heat the whole time
But anyway, MJOLNIR can withstand repeated impacts capable of vaporizing lesser infantry, mainly because of the shield
I don’t see a Predator’s plasma caster posing a significant threat without heavily concentrated fire
versed helm
If I had to guess, I'd say there's a point out to which the properties of a plasma bolt are relatively stable and consistent, probably a few hundred meters
And then they destabilise fairly rapidly as the magnetic field fails, resulting in reduced heat and loss of whatever kinetic force there is because of the more of a dispersed cloud
supple field
Perhaps also cause of it. Some of the plasma weapon are consider “slow?” Compare to UNSC fire arm? I could be mistaken due to game and simple read through
versed helm
I think it's perfectly valid to assume that, canonically, plasma bolts have a much slower velocity than UNSC or modern weaponry.
That said, I doubt the bolts travel as slowly as we see in game.
In the same way a rocket wouldn't travel as slowly as we see in game either.
Plasma would be generally slower unless it was a weapon made by a super advanced race oh nvm
I guess it depends on the containment field. I mean, after all, the bolt is shaped and defined by the containment field.
The science behind how it exists and maintains itself must be crazy cool - maybe it's a byproduct of something to do with the plasma itself.
But really, the question is how fast could a self-sustaining electromagnetic anomaly travel with the mechanisms and energy available to a small arm.
obsidian thistle
Ah yes I was looking over sources for stuff. The Carbine if I recall goes over something about that on the Stats page for Halo 3 on Bungie.net. (ahh I dont miss those days where some lore was exclusive to stats)
versed helm
hey CIA, you know if there's word on if there are any Cat-2 among the ranks of the Spartan-IV units
obsidian thistle
Cat-2. I'll check the Field guide later today
versed helm
Cat-2 are simply genetic markers
obsidian thistle
It may. But no harm in checking.
versed helm
Cat-2 denotes a human that meets the strict genetic requirements for the Spartan-II program
natural talent per se
obsidian thistle
Cat-2 if my theory is right could equal Reclaimer status.
Just humanity doesnt know that persay xD
strong sage
Ooooooo wait this is new to me
So basically its a type of genes which makes a human or spartan equal to II?
obsidian thistle
Well I'd need to check.
strong sage
Sure fam take your time ^~^
Im now reading Void dancer armor in halopedia
It says many special forces communities are questioning regarding the armor
obsidian thistle
Well thats due to its Black Box stuff the manu put into it.
I mean would you be happy fielding a set of armor that may do stuff you are not aware off.
carmine sleet
I know I wouldn't be happy if the armour started acting strange during an op
obsidian thistle
I wouldnt be happy if it was a sensitive op. And it turned out the suit was transmitting data back to ETS
carmine sleet
Or transmitting your location to the enemies without you knowing
obsidian thistle
Its a cool looking set however. One of H5s better looking ones.
On the otherhand it could be a great set for fighting the created. Seeing as its so closed off.
carmine sleet
I'll admit, I was never one of those who outright hated the new armours added in Halo 5 but Void Dancer definitely one of the best in the game. Plus, seeing a Spartan or two using it against the Created would be nice
vivid dust
Both 4 and 5 add sick new armors
inner basin
I mean in Halo 5 there are good and bad armours. I mean do we need to discuss just how tactically disadvantaged Seeker is? I mean it looks like you have a speaker system integrated at each side
Or Foehammer or as I like to dub it the worst Unicorn helmet
carmine sleet
Seeker's that weird one that we just don't question since it's now basically the joke helmet that I would love to see return for comedic purposes only
vivid dust
it's hilariously bad lmao
inner basin
I mean if it returned in Infinite along classics like Mk.V, Mk.VI, Hayabusa etc it’d be funny to see who wears it
versed helm
hyabusa probably wont return tbh
inner basin
I wonder if they tweaked the design of Seeker, could they make it good?
carmine sleet
I think Shinobi is much more likely to return since that's the spiritual suscessor to Hyabusa
vivid dust
One of the good armors
versed helm
it's hard to have a spiritual successor to a design from another franchise lmao
carmine sleet
I meant more as in that it was a Japanese inspired armour set
carmine sleet
I know
Also, another set I think was really good in Halo 5 in terms of design is the Security Gen 2 look, sure it isn't the exact same as it's Halo 3 helmet but it's honestly a really nice update to the design
versed helm
security's always looked nice
carmine sleet
Very true
vivid dust
I was just reminded of Pioneer and Oceanic and I now want to die
versed helm
hey CIA mind if I dm you a question regarding a page you had on your list of things to do?
vivid dust
man I really miss Halo 4's customization
versed helm
i mean, Reach's was more expansive sortof. a Hybridization of Reach/4 is optimal
inner basin
I mean Halo 4 is what brought us Oceanic
versed helm
*Oceanic
inner basin
I corrected myself
vivid dust
I now miss nothing
strong sage
I wanna see Atlas set
vivid dust
no but like I miss being able to actually customize my armor
also the Champions Bundle armors
inner basin
It also changed Chief’s classic armour because “nanotechnology”
strong sage
Im a big fan of spartan of heavy types thou carrying big guns etc like robert and jorge
vivid dust
Chief's Halo 4 armor is just as good as the others, its introduction is the only problem
versed helm
i dont think it was ever specifically stated that chief's armor in 4 was changed due to nanotech, it was mentioned in passing regarding Mk-VII which only Naomi uses
inner basin
Yeah the excuse is my main problem
versed helm
Chief's armor in 4 is my favorite
inner basin
I use Mk.VI GEN2 in Halo 4 on MCC and Halo 5, the only issue I have is the introduction of it fro the Chief
versed helm
i remember the comment with gameinformer, i also remember it was an offhand comment
vivid dust
Honestly I'm not okay with the slight changes made to his armor between 2 and 3 either
but they're not as drastic
carmine sleet
That one thing I disliked about H2A actually, they could've used it as a perfect opportunity to make the armour consistent across halo 2 and 3 for Chief and Arbiter but sadly didn't
inner basin
I main the scratch on his upper right torso is what stood out for me in Halo 3 because I guess if you fall from a somewhat high height, I guess I can make an exception or two
vivid dust
but on the other hand Arbiter has never looked better so I'm kinda torn
give us H3A now thanks
carmine sleet
If they do make H3A, I hope they reuse assets from H2A, no need to remake Chief and Arbiter's models if they do make it
inner basin
Personally H2A did the Arbiter justice and I can’t look at H3 Arbiter the same, especially after playing one then the other
versed helm
Jhonson is halo
carmine sleet
But as Levelzer has said, Arbiter in H2A looks so good
vivid dust
(still not over the fact that in H2 and 3, Johnson is older than Lord Hood)
carmine sleet
Lord Hood's design in H2A is honestly fine, I remember a friend of mine first seeing the neural implant on the back of his head and wondering what it was
vivid dust
oh also one thing I wish H2A did, give Sergeant Stacker his face from CE and 3 back
inner basin
Well I mean Johnson was on Orion soldier (Spartan 1)
inner basin
Slipstream it’s not his appearance in H2A it’s playing H2A then going to 3
vivid dust
how dare you
carmine sleet
Oh, yeah, I get what you mean Beast, it's a big leap in quality
versed helm
tfw people say halo 3 doesnt look aged. i always point them to Lord Hood's face
inner basin
You disliked the Arbiter? Is it because you like Brutes? They’re vile, disloyal beasts! @versed helm
versed helm
You: Is something wrong?
Me: No. (pause) Nothing.
vivid dust
Point them to any face
carmine sleet
Johnson's face when he dies always annoys me because of how bad his nose is modelled and textured
inner basin
That’s just racism. Bungie is racist
versed helm
weapon textures and armor textures are about it for the quality that's lasted in Halo 3, as well as the flood biomes. nice and glistening and disgusting as it should be
Unggoy are better than the preccursors
carmine sleet
Indeed Dark, actual faces are just nowhere near as good
vivid dust
Halo 3 Johnson is the worst version we ever got
versed helm
you clearly dont remember halo 2
vivid dust
I most definitely do
versed helm
The worst jhonson we got is ⅜ jhonson
jump from halo CE and halo 2...johnson got a major tan
ⁿ⁰
inner basin
Well we don’t need to remember Halo 2 Johnson when you can just play with anniversary graphics
versed helm
@vivid dust i've one to beat you....
Worst Jonhson is Senor Johnson in CEA
😂
The worst jhonson is my drawing of jhonson
inner basin
I wonder, when Spanish people play CE, does the Marine (from Jenkins cam footage) in 343 Guilty Spark say instead of “This is loco”, say “This is crazy”. Just a thought that’s very highly unlikely but just wonder if they would reverse it around.
versed helm
no. it would remain the same.
vivid dust
@versed helm fair point
strong sage
I wanted to ask about something , but i feel like it is something that I shouldn’t ask xc
vivid dust
well, is it relevant to the lore and universe of Halo?
versed helm
@strong sage
strong sage
It is but at the same time its uhh more like a vs kind of thing
versed helm
Just say it
strong sage
Oh well im just gonna spill the beans
quiet frigate
inb4 rick rolled
versed helm
The suspense is
@quiet frigate
quiet frigate
strong sage
Sooo uhhhh i know that uhhh Space Marines beat Spartan II easily or that what people say at mostly vs forums. But im just curious thou like do spartans lost to space marines is it because of the gears that IIs are using are not strong enough to beat them? I mean like spartans are fast thou im sure they would find ways to try take down a single Astartes
Sorry if this is uhh an irrelevant question
inner basin
How would Space Marines beat Spartan-IIs? I mean you need to clarify where these Space Marines are from @strong sage
quiet frigate
im pretty sure he means warhammer 40k
inner basin
Well I don’t really play Warhammer40k so I can’t help there
quiet frigate
okay i get what youre doubtful about
versed helm
I've never heard of warhammer
inner basin
I have heard of it, just never played it
quiet frigate
Space marinesfrom warhammer 40K are actually more fiction than sci-fi in the sense that they are hilariously overpowered. Spartans from t he halo series are more down to earth itirations of what human soldiers can possibly become.
strong sage
Yeah coz uh i’ve been reading debates a lot especially from spacebattles
versed helm
What if we gave them both mk5 mjonir and a magnum?
quiet frigate
uh ok
wont matter
they have like spartan 4s augments but their augments are on a whole different scale
versed helm
So I have a question
strong sage
Yeah true
quiet frigate
andplus
all the space marines from 40k are specialised foraspecific climate or enemy so cant really say
versed helm
Would ancient humanity and the covenant mid human covenant war be able to defeat the pre flood forruners?
quiet frigate
humanity can solo it if we say ancient h umans
quiet frigate
the reasons we were pushed back as ancients were because we weref fighting on two fronts
versed helm
According to lore ancient humans were less powerfull
quiet frigate
and we triedto use the flood as medicine and fertilisers -.-
inner basin
Not true @versed helm
strong sage
Well ancient humans were giving headache to forerunners back then
quiet frigate
werent ancient humans equipped with class 10 combat suits?
inner basin
Ancient Humanity was on par with the Forerunners. We only lost because we were running from the flood, fighting on two fronts, and sacrificed 1/3 of the population, which we thought had an immunity to the flood but in fact the flood tactically retreated
versed helm
Who else wants a game were you play as a forruner during the flood forruner war
Ah guess I missed that since I'm really tired
versed helm
It would be a horror game
quiet frigate
till we decide to kill ourselves
inner basin
The only type of spinoff I wanted for a while is a stealthy Headhunter co-op game. I want it so you can customise your prototype energy shielded SPI armour with maybe a ghillie suit, or a couple leaves along the armour gauntlets and leg armour.
strong sage
Well if they were to make a horror halo game i want it based on CORRUPTED
inner basin
If you didn’t know, Headhunters did have prototype SPI armour that did incorporate energy shielding, well at least 2 we know of anyways.
versed helm
I want a game were we play as a grunt then get murdered
strong sage
*Unsc codename corrupted
Escaping from a flood infested areas before unsc nuke the heck out of everything
versed helm
Ok here is a headhunter file:
[REDACTED] spartan [redacted]
inner basin
I could make a far batter Headhunter file than that but we need to keep it to lore, no fanfic in here
versed helm
Okay let's talk about oni
carmine sleet
If I recall correctly, the Headhunter SPI armour we saw used in Evolutions: Headhunter had to divert power from shields to use it's active camo module
versed helm
Oni = flatline
strong sage
Well they way i see it Cadian made an info regarding Oni
How in a way they become the bad guys but with a good reason that is to ensure our survival xd
inner basin
It was only for charging @carmine sleet. After it was charged, the shields would be back
carmine sleet
Just noticed I made an error in what I said, had to correct that
inner basin
We don’t know the full specs as it was only experimental. I would like to see an advanced SPI in Infinite or other games in the future as it looks so sleek and the fact that we know it can support energy shielding would be awesome
carmine sleet
Maybe as an armour set we can use in multiplayer for Infinite. Obviously it would be cosmetic only but still
inner basin
We can hope, right?
carmine sleet
Indeed we can
versed helm
Or maybe a story suit
carmine sleet
Why would Chief wear SPI armour?
versed helm
We might play as multiple characters for split screen @carmine sleet
carmine sleet
Ok, but why would any of them wear SPI armour?
inner basin
Perhaps it could be like Halo 3?
versed helm
Yes
inner basin
But yeah why would they wear SPI is a good question
carmine sleet
My guess is that we'll likely have Blue Team in co-op, all of whom wear Mjolnir
versed helm
Maybe one of dm was an s3 headhunter or 1 likes the armour
inner basin
Blue Team? Uggh. I’d prefer new faces like they did with Halo 3. The way they just introduced new Elites to us
carmine sleet
I mean, Blue Team are Chief's family, so logically it would make sense for them to be working with him to help stop Cortana
versed helm
Or it could be like h2 with chief and another unknown spartan @carmine sleet
Locke could die and that could happen
carmine sleet
In Halo 2, it wasn't an "unknown Spartan", it was another Chief because co-op in Halo 2 isn't meant to be the canon version of the game
Chief was always the only Spartan during the events seen in Halo 2
versed helm
Yes but arbiter missions chief missions @carmine sleet
carmine sleet
Indeed, sure Linda was technically there as well but she was in a cryo pod in space during most of Combat Evolved
Also, I'm not sure what your point is Valorous
versed helm
There could be a headhunter on the infinity that we play as somehow @carmine sleet
carmine sleet
You don't need to tag me every time
inner basin
Slipstream, Linda didn’t actually land on the ring though, she was injected into orbit 😉
carmine sleet
That's why I said she was in a cryo pod in space
versed helm
Chief vs Locke errors =1999999
inner basin
^ Don’t even get me started on what was wrong with the choreography
versed helm
Locke should have won ...
inner basin
No he definitely shouldn’t have
carmine sleet
I think the main problem with the fight was that it felt too slow, if the choreography was faster and we got more of a combat style used by an actual military, many would've been fine with it
versed helm
Plot armour protecting you from nukes exploding on your face since halo 4
carmine sleet
Also, whoever wins in the fight isn't all that important so long as it progresses the plot
inner basin
But Chief felt slow and clumsy, he should definitely not be like that, especially if you look at the way he took on that Brute Chieftain in Halo 4’s flashback for Chief
versed helm
I love locke
clever fable
I love lamp
versed helm
Which chief acted better 1 2 3 4 5 or reach
clever fable
Reach Chief looked coziest.
carmine sleet
Chief wasn't in Reach outside of an Easter Egg
inner basin
Chief wasn’t in Reach but mind you he barely appeared in 5 either so I’d probably go with 2
versed helm
@carmine sleet yes I do
carmine sleet
Then say Fall of Reach instead of Reach, many will assume you mean the game if you just say Reach
clever fable
People sleeping on the sleeping chief smh
versed helm
TFoR
I liked plot armour chief
So 3 and 4
Chiefs luck is quantifiable as plot armor.
It’s them breaking the fourth wall telling us he’s the Main Character
radiant sphinx
Mjolnir armor vs plot armor
versed helm
Plot wins
MJOLNIR was created via the Geas after all
Just more plot armor.
Plotnir armour
clever fable
mjolnir is getting a buff next patch
strong sage
Lael
limpid meadow
Chief's luck is somewhat breaking the 4th wall, but it's an in-universe thing too. It's illustrated beautifully when Halsey meets John for the first time and she does the coin toss.
John grabs the coin out of the air to get the result he wants. That's what it means to be "lucky" in John's case. He makes his own luck.
versed helm
MOAJNIR pls its MJONIR but made out of moa wings
inner basin
Which was changed in TFoR animated unfortunately Toa
But I count the book as the canon version and the animated version of the TFoR to be just a little visual treat as it was far more enjoyable not counting it as the canonical version
limpid meadow
I consider the books to be superior canon
ocean relic
k
limpid meadow
TFoR is the foundation of Halo's lore
mental nimbus
so?
I don't think the story is all that interesting, or the characters that compelling. Neither do I think that being the foundation of lore is really an important metric in the judgement of the thing.
limpid meadow
I'd say it's pretty important. If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine. But that book set the ground work for everything to come. That's pretty big.
mental nimbus
I very much disagree . I wouldn't consider how good later books might be or the quantity of background fluff produced in the two decades since to have any bearing on my personal opinion on the book
The consistency of the world in later instalments is important, but I do have a bone to pick with "lore-centric" storytelling in general, or at the very least when the discourse™ reduces a story to the underlying lore alone
limpid meadow
The books are hardly "background fluff". They give life the universe that the game can only hint at.
What do you mean by "lore-centric storytelling"?
And I don't many who reduce TFoR to the underlying lore. The book is genuinely loved by many
inner basin
Lore and story telling can very much go hand-in-hand if done correctly and 343 have so far been trying their best to do that, but at the end of the day I guess you can’t please everyone
I mean if people didn’t like the lore then why would this channel in the discord even exist, and if people didn’t like the story then why do people keep coming back and playing the games, it’s not just for the MP as the MCC wouldn’t have released with all the campaigns from previous games, with Reach now being included
I think you are very much in the minority Dusty, but you are entitled to your opinion
mental nimbus
I wasn't talking about the books being all just background fluff, that was just in reference to my opinion that TFoR isn't good because it produced a large amount of stuff set in the same universe
limpid meadow
I never said it's good because it produced a lot. I said it's important.
mental nimbus
I very much understand that
it's just that the fact that it's important isn't important to me - if you know what I'm saying
limpid meadow
To each their own
versed helm
Tfor broke it's own lore earlier in the film it said that the covenant had shielding tech halsey was there about 5 minutes later the entire frigate is surprised that they have shielding tec
Also the unsc didn't know about prophets till later in the war
And we see a h4 battle rifle 30+ years before 4
unique rune
Going by the animated adaptation was your first mistake.
obsidian thistle
- Note that the narration is usually after the events shown. So the shield issue isnt a issue.
- The BR85 appearance isnt a issue. More its played as a very early prototype.
That said I'd recommend the book or comic series.
versed helm
It was a briefing for the mission so it was before
obsidian thistle
So Maria huh. 😄
Link for those unaware who they are. https://www.halopedia.org/Maria-062
versed helm
Dont forget she was a spartan 2 tho
obsidian thistle
Thats what the page says 😃 (Plus I have the Graphic Novel right here)
inner basin
So if she is in reserves, would she not be called upon during the Battle of Earth? I mean that was an emergency threatening our very existence
explain this
obsidian thistle
Maybe she was.
inner basin
That is a possibility
carmine sleet
It's just something we haven't seen if she was
obsidian thistle
Like we have no story on her past this.
carmine sleet
I think if she was, it would've been unlikely she was doing so in a suit of Mjolnir since the suit she wore in her only appearance was Chief's in Halo 2, 3 and 4 and as far as we know, there weren't any other Mjolnir suits at the site as of the Battle of Earth
versed helm
Maybe destroying supply lines
inner basin
She could of had her Mjolnir suit where she lived/her reserved barracks location to suit up quickly
versed helm
Or she could have just been killed during the glassing of africa
inner basin
(That is if she lived in Africa) Also the Covenant didn’t just commit all the forces in Africa, I believe some were in the Arizona I believe. It think it was a Brute pack
modest marsh
She was in Seongnam if the comic is anything to go by
versed helm
All we know is she survived
obsidian thistle
We dont know. In a wiki point of view her story stopped right after Armor testing.
A case of "If we dont see it, we cant say it"
keen brook
She's just missing in action
inner basin
I real interesting story of a Spartan is Will-043. His case is an interesting one
keen brook
What's he about
versed helm
Where in the galaxy is the Midnight Facility located
@versed helm the Orion arm
Yeah..but where in the Orion Arm
abstract zealot
So I just remembered one of Halo Canons videos regarding the interrogator from Halo 4s prologue and I was wondering what are your guys opinions on him?
I know in Halo Canons video he came to the conclusion that the person is not from ONI but rather a representative of the SPARTAN-IV Program and to see why and how the SIIs were so affective. Though that makes sense, I personally don’t think that’s the case. The reason I say this is because the Commander-in-Chief of the Spartan branch is Musa Ghanem, formerly known as Musa-096. Musa has first hands experiences with the Spartan-IIs and their training. He knows what they’ve gone through and what they are taught so to me sending someone to interrogate Halsey regarding how and why the IIs were so affective during the war. We actually even see a quote of him telling SIVs what it means to be a Spartan and that’s they need to start acting like it. Another thing that I feel adds to what I’m saying is the fact that the programs Chief of Staff is Jun-A266, a former SIII. Now obviously I know he’s obviously not an SII, but Jun was trained by one of the best SIIs, Kurt-S051. This means Jun knows the values of his training as well as who it came from. Another thing is Jun use to be a Headhunter as well, meaning at some point, though very very unlikely, he could’ve ran into or worked with an SII. After being a Headhunter though, Jun was apart of Noble Team which had their own SII on their roster. This means that Jun has had more than enough first hand experiences to know why and how the SIIs were so effective.
Now with all that being said, I don’t think the interrogator is apart of the SIV program. In fact I don’t think he’s apart of the UNSC (technically). I honestly think the person could be apart of, or working with an Insurrectionist group. I say this as we’ve seen numerous times that they have infiltrated the UNSC and even ONI. We’ve even seen them infiltrate the SIV program. So what honestly could stop them from trying to make their own supersoldier program to help fight against the UNSC.
versed helm
That's way too long
abstract zealot
I’d like to get peoples opinions on that.
And it’s better than sending/spamming the message in different chunks
carmine sleet
Those are some great points ExPo
versed helm
I read it and it hurts my brain
abstract zealot
Do I need to elaborate and or explain anything? Or is it just hurting your head because it’s too long Valorous?
carmine sleet
Honestly, due to the lack of info surrounding the interrogator, I don't really like to speculate on who they are. That said, I get the feeling they might not be an Innie, more of a rogue ONI agent who never operated like any other agent and likely has their own plans against what ONI wants, maybe they could sell the info they learn to the Insurrectionists and help them start their own version of the Spartans but ultimately, there's just too little about them to really say who they work for
fair hazel
The most logical answer is still just some from the spartan-IV program...
That has been the most sensical thing to me for such a long time
sometimes things dont need to be complicated
just simple
abstract zealot
I agree. Though the things I pointed out could honestly lead to a very interesting storyline.
carmine sleet
That is a very valid point Ericky
last anchor
Hes UNSC, thats for sure.