Well, based on gameplay he is
#lore-and-universe
modest marsh
versed helm
Listen, Buck doesn't factor into this, a more pertinent discussion is at play.
Now look, obviously there will be slight differences in Spartan performance.
modest marsh
“Most importantly,” Dr. Halsey said, “the armor’s inner structure is composed of a new reactive metal liquid crystal. It is amorphous, yet fractally scales and amplifies force. In simplified terms, the armor doubles the wearer’s strength, and enhances the reaction speed of a normal human by a factor of five.”
Reactive metal liquid crystal
versed helm
Hm. That is very interesting.
It doesn't gel very well with modern techsuit lore, if you get my pun.
there's still limitations to MJOLNIR Gen2
modest marsh
And with your interpretation, that would mean all 33 Spartans are perfectly matched for them all to experience the same advantages
versed helm
GEN2 allows S-IV to have the same capabilities as S-II/III, but doesnt enhance II/III's further by much
modest marsh
Even though Kelly’s enhancement is also stated to be a 5x multiplier in First Strike
versed helm
My interpretation is that differences in raw Spartan physical capability between two Spartans in MJOLNIR will never be so great that one can demolish the other in the way people make out Chief could to Locke.
modest marsh
Despite her advantage over the baseline S-II being insurmountable
versed helm
Please do not dictate my opinion to me.
modest marsh
I don’t see any reason to believe that Dark
There’s no real evidence suggesting as much
versed helm
and Gen2 was also developed without input of Halsey IIRC, so comparing S-IV's Armor to anything in the older media isnt really viable. it was stated
we've discussed it here many times before
this probably makes the, at least, 15th time this exact discussion's been had here
modest marsh
It’s a contentious issue
For all the emphasis put on how much the S-IIs are so much better than the IVs?
The explanation just doesn’t hold water without ignoring what I believe to be the original intent
versed helm
Alright, so hypothetical. Assuming that a regular human being could use MJOLNIR without being damaged, do you believe that they would genuinely only have "double the strength"
The armor was designed to compensate for the Spartan-IVs' less extensive physical augmentations in comparison to the previous two generations. As a result, the armor multiplies the strength of its wearer significantly more than the first-generation suits, granting the Spartan-IVs roughly equal strength as their predecessors while wearing the suit.[4][20] The GEN2 suit is also lighter and stronger in construction than the first-generation Mjolnir line
Whatever the hell that means.
granting the Spartan-IVs roughly equal strength as their predecessors while wearing the suit
modest marsh
Yes, because that’s how the armor works
versed helm
this specifically
modest marsh
That’s speculation
versed helm
I think that's a silly interpretation of how the armour works given the context.
Spartan Field Manual
modest marsh
Note “predecessors” would be Spartans wearing GEN1 armor
versed helm
For one, I think it's pretty evident that MJOLNIR does more than double the wearer's strength.
modest marsh
Kelly's hand bumped into Fred's shoulder, and he recognized it as a consoling gesture. Kelly's razor-edged agility was multiplied fivefold by the reactive circuits in her MJOLNIR armor. She wouldn't have "accidentally" touched him unless she meant it, and the gesture spoke volumes.
versed helm
Halsey seems to have been exercising hyperbole.
modest marsh
This isn’t the only instance where this terminology is used
versed helm
Hm. Fair play.
modest marsh
Additional memory packets and signal conduits had been implanted into the Spartan’s body, and two externally accessible input slots had been installed near the base of his skull. Taken together, the combined systems served to double his strength, enhance his already lightning-fast reflexes, and make it possible for him to navigate through the intricacies of any high-tech battlefield.
versed helm
I suspect the truth lies somewhere between.
How do you get these quotes so fast?
Just searching through a PDF?
obviously there'll be nuances, but it's not going to be leaps and bounds, as they're still augmented on a musculoskeletal level
modest marsh
I memorized them and have them on kindle
versed helm
Still, that's certainly not magic. There are mechanics at play.
You do halo a disservice when you throw around phrasing like that.
versed helm
Right.
modest marsh
It definitely requires suspension of disbelief
Because the implementation of the technology is what’s incredible
versed helm
Uh-huh. The "I could totally do it better" syndrome.
The less far we get into this, the better.
modest marsh
I mean, I like it this way
versed helm
But back to what is.
Alright, so the basic mechanic is that MJOLNIR, by whatever method, amplifies the user's "strength".
Bit of an interesting term there, for one.
modest marsh
MJOLNIR is possible because it’s a non-mechanical suit that relies on force-input to initiate motivation, which is activated on thought
This creates a tandem relationship between body and suit
You know, melding man and machine
modest marsh
I’m illustrating my interpretation
Spartans obviously use their own muscles when using the armor, it’s not like they’re just along for the ride
And the insistence on using “multiplicative” terms is quite telling
Though something I will agree to is that perhaps the numbers may not have been entirely accurate
versed helm
Multiplicative can mean a lot of things.
modest marsh
Particularly, the last example is from the Flood
versed helm
What is important here I guess is whether or not there is an upper limit to have far MJOLNIR can multiply you.
And there obviously is.
modest marsh
Presumably by 2552 Halsey would’ve improved upon the base features of her earliest Mark IV prototype
In fact I would suspect individual armor variants to influence physicality differently
Heck, Kelly’s GEN2 explicitly does
versed helm
I believe it's more a matter of armour variants being tailored to certain physical characteristics.
Kelly can go faster, so her armour accommodates that.
modest marsh
I don’t get your distinction
versed helm
Physicality influencing armour variants instead of the other way around.
It supports your perspective, in the long run.
modest marsh
EVA-pattern prototype refitted for orbital raids. The Enhanced Mobility Subsystem embedded in the HERMES prototype is so powerful that only a handful of Spartans can use it safely.
versed helm
Wait a second.
That supports what I was saying earlier.
That MJOLNIR has certain baseline physical characteristics, and Spartans withstand them.
versed helm
Rather than MJOLNIR being purely amplificative. Functionally, it's amplificative, but in technicality MJOLNIR is its own machine in which the user is along for the ride.
modest marsh
We don’t know why it’s only safe for certain Spartans
You’re making a leap in assumptions here
It could be as simple as them stumbling over themselves from moving so fast
versed helm
Uh-huh. Sure.
versed helm
But wouldn't they only be at risk of stumbling if they inherently were fast enough to get the armour to that point?
If MJOLNIR is purely amplificative, then any Spartan should be able to use any suit - as long as the suit can stand up to them.
modest marsh
I’m saying not all the amplification is even
versed helm
some mjolnir variants are custom made for spartans with unique traits as well.
i mean beyond choice, kelly's is the best example
Right. My initial thought, which Maggruber disproved, was that because Kelly is so fast, her MJOLNIR needed to accommodate that.
But if that's the case, then other Spartans should still be able to use it, because it simply wouldn't go as fast for them.
her armor is slightly lighter
iirc
modest marsh
There’s a difference between having a body capable of accomplishing certain athletic feats, and being coordinated enough to do so safely and reliably
gaunt kayak
hello
modest marsh
Kelly’s HERMES should make you go faster
Another reference to multiplication of core abilities
versed helm
Alright, I accept this now. I'm familiar with most of these quotes, but I don't think I ever cast an eye over them in such a discerning way.
I guess it makes sense. A suit of MJOLNIR can't be autopiloted, or really controlled without the wearers consent in a robotic fashion.
Just sorta shut off.
modest marsh
I think back to the exchanges in FoR that make it clear Cortana cannot motivate the armor herself
However in Last Light, Intrepid Eye does
versed helm
I only remember Fred's armour just being disabled in that.
modest marsh
Not expressly stated, however I like to believe she accomplished this by stimulating Fred’s nervous system with precision electrical jolts, causing him to convulse involuntarily
versed helm
I think that would've been mentioned. Not trying to be contrarian.
Involuntary convulsions are not pretty or subtle.
And they're certainly not pleasant.
modest marsh
He was in incredible pain
modest marsh
I’ll find it right now
But the whole reason Fred lost his armor was because Veta had to sabotage it with an improvised explosive
Because he was ostensibly trying to kill her after being hacked by Intrepid Eye
versed helm
I feel as if the most logical conclusion from what you've told me is that Intrepid Eye managed to cause the reactive circuits to trigger on their own.
Finding a way to simulate the input of his movements.
It'd explain the pain. His body being wrenched in directions it's not prepared to go.
modest marsh
Cortana has already exhibited the ability to do what I described
Shock the operator that is
What I propose is that Intrepid Eye did this with a bit more precision
modest marsh
The Flood
She roasted an infection form that managed to penetrate his suit
She stopped midsentence as Fred grew ungainly and began to stumble. Thinking they were under sniper attack, Veta dived for the side of the road—and heard Fred’s boot thud down behind her. She landed in a forward roll and kept going until she hit the uphill edge of the road. She sprang up, then spun around to find Fred lurching in her direction. His carriage was awkward and stiff, and she could tell by the confusion and horror in his expression that he was fighting for control of his own motions.
versed helm
Poor Fred.
Quick question - any idea what fractal scaling is, in particular?
I've been trying to look it up but I'm nowhere near maths-savvy enough to understand what I'm finding.
modest marsh
versed helm
Triangles?
modest marsh
I think it refers to the geometries of the crystals
If I’m not mistaken, the basic idea is that an electrical charge is put into the material, which then causes it to react to input force
Nylund’s concept is in fact based in real science, what is fictive is its implementation
versed helm
I have gleaned that fractal shapes spatially increase in weird ways when you mess with their dimensions.
Which probably relates to the amplification of force.
In this instance.
modest marsh
And the whole thing with piezoelectricity is that pressure increases electrical charge
versed helm
Well, I've officially now rectified my perspective on MJOLNIR's strength-enhancing functions.
Though the question remains - in the mechanics of MJOLNIR, do the differences between a Spartan II and a Spartan IV constitute a huge difference in the physical output, as Halo 5 seems to suggest they do not?
modest marsh
I take issue with that cutscene because if I’m being honest, even Locke doesn’t seem to be doing his best
It isn’t fair to either party based on the material we have already
versed helm
Well, yeah. That's my issue with it.
modest marsh
But for example
Specifically in a grapple, Chief’s advantage in size should let him overcome a direct confrontation like we see in that cutscene, which I think is a specific moment people take issue with
There’s a lingering instance of them fighting over the armor restraint that would suggest they are perfectly matched, both on a narrative and practical level
So yeah, people don’t like the idea of Locke being on the same pedestal as Chief, that’s of course subjective and should have no bearing on whether or not it’s feasible
That’s not really what I find problematic
versed helm
Are they actually sized that differently?
According to Halopedia, they're literally the same height un-armoured.
6"10.
modest marsh
I don’t think that’s his unarmored height
It’s weird
Their masses are all unarmored, obviously
versed helm
Locke is noticeably lighter.
stoic hamlet
Something to think about, what about reaction time?
modest marsh
Spartan-IV’s do have augmented reflexes
However
There’s no like
Practical basis for it
versed helm
But that's interesting, because he exerted the same force as Chief, suggesting that MJOLNIR is kind of an equaliser.
Clearly it operates by amplifying the user's strength
stoic hamlet
A II or III have some absurd reaction time feats, but then that’s multiplied by MJOLNIR, but I don’t recall if the IV’s can react as fast.
modest marsh
Here’s my beef eternal
versed helm
But variations in user strength may not have such a great end-result in stuff like raw pushing power.
Running speed, perhaps.
versed helm
The amplification may not be linear.
modest marsh
Our main source of SIV material is Escalation which seemingly made it its mission to make them look like doofuses
versed helm
Some cool stuff happens
modest marsh
Some
stoic hamlet
If a IV can’t react as fast as a II or III, they basically can’t win, no matter how equal their strength.
Even without MJOLNIR II’s and III’s have flat out dodged bullets and moved so fast their opponents couldn’t react.
But have IV’s demonstrated any similar feats?
modest marsh
The best we have is Kodiak fighting evenly with N’Tho(?) due to his advantage in physicality alone
But his opponent was also holding back
So meh
versed helm
Well, Locke didn't react fast enough to the headbutt that won Chief the fight at the guardian.
To be honest.
stoic hamlet
Was there anything on reaction time? Anything at all?
Because we flat out know even without MJOLNIR a II/III can move faster than an Elite can follow.
versed helm
Though it could just be an experience thing.
modest marsh
That’s not always the most consistent thing mind you
stoic hamlet
*From Ghosts of Onyx, IIRC.
modest marsh
However, Spartan Time for whatever reason is treated as a Spartan-II thing
Which for me, is one of my favorite ways of explaining how they function
stoic hamlet
Haven’t we had examples of III’s doing/using it?
modest marsh
No
versed helm
It was kinda an intimate thing. Not many books get as up close and personal with the Spartan experience as TFoR.
Forbeck's novels certainly wouldn't.
modest marsh
Tom once dodged a plasma bolt midflight thanks to his “combat instincts”
stoic hamlet
They’d still logically be able to do it though. They probably have, even if not directly stated.
IIRC the Spartan Time was introduced in First Strike, wasn’t it? At least the word
modest marsh
That’s about as close as I can remember
versed helm
He also bapped a plasma grenade back at the thrower in Legacy of Onyx.
modest marsh
Uuuugh
versed helm
Well Spartan time is just a manifestation of a Spartans harnessing their reaction time under stimuli.
feral perch
how is that possible tho
versed helm
Because Forbeck and details are mortal enemies.
modest marsh
Forbeck chose not to elaborate
feral perch
lol you think so?
stoic hamlet
Yeah, and IIRC Beta Company dodged plasma before during Torpedo, so there is precedent for III’s to have it.
The grenade, you mean?
Yeah idk about that one
feral perch
I haven't noticed that being a huge issue in his books but maybe it is
stoic hamlet
Maybe the sticky fuse or whatever didn’t prime?
versed helm
I mean, any time a Spartan reacts quickly in a measured way that is anecdotally something more than raw instinct, but over a very brief amount of time, that's evidence of Spartan Time.
stoic hamlet
Like, sometimes when throwing a plasma grenade in game it won’t stick to certain surfaces, which could be an indication it has a timer?
modest marsh
Spartan Time is a very specific thing
stoic hamlet
Aye
feral perch
Plasma grenades don't stick to anything that isn't killable in-game.
modest marsh
Spartans have “base” reflexes that are much quicker than the average person, however they enter a lowered state of conscious awareness that allows them to respond faster to stimuli in response to adrenal excitement
stoic hamlet
But I don’t believe it would be an isolated thing to the II’s, it’s possible, if not extremely likely the III’s also have it.
The IV’s may even have a “weaker” version.
modest marsh
Like autopilot
versed helm
It swear Spartan Time is just perceiving reality slower.
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure it is
versed helm
Probably as a result of the neuro-nervous facets of their augmentation.
Allowing signals to traverse the body faster, etc etc.
modest marsh
It’s more complex than that, I assure you
Traviss dedicated a whole page to explaining it in depth
stoic hamlet
Which book? Glasslands?
Mortal Dictata? Thursday War?
I think I recall the passage but I forget the book exactly
It was when Naomi boarded the brute ship, right?
versed helm
Looking for examples of Spartan IVs doing Spartan Timey stuff.
Not sure this would qualify, but Palmer thwacking a knight after ducking its sword is... an experience to watch.
feral perch
Those cutscenes are dubious canon.
versed helm
modest marsh
Yeah Eternal
feral perch
If you mean the SpOps ones
stoic hamlet
It was BB’s POV right? He watched her basically go to town in slow motion.
feral perch
She oneshotted Knights
stoic hamlet
Well no, but you know
modest marsh
Her experience is variable and dependent on what she’s experiencing at a given moment
stoic hamlet
It’s perceived as slowed down time simply because of how fast Spartans can react.
feral perch
It's not a voluntary thing is what you mean @modest marsh
modest marsh
Her training is so embedded into her physiological behavior that it causes very specific chemical responses which an AI can identify
No
There’s a very clear emphasis on “training”, “senses”, “instincts”
feral perch
I can't open that link rn
modest marsh
https://i.imgur.com/G3O6xA0.jpg here’s the excerpt with Naomi and BB
I believe Jerome and Isabel’s incursion on Enduring Conviction also illustrates the phenomenon quite deliberately
feral perch
But a Spartan can't just go into Spartan time whenever they please. Making a sandwich?
modest marsh
No
versed helm
That just shows that stimuli trigger Spartan Time.
Stimuli that are likely honed through training.
modest marsh
Yes
versed helm
But the end effect is, Spartans simply think faster when they need to.
modest marsh
Well in the excerpt I just provided, Naomi’s body has already decided to shoot before she even consciously recognized her opponent
You might say this is where the roboticism of a Spartan comes into play
versed helm
I think the instance of her firing on the brute is disconnected from Spartan Time.
I think that's combat reflex.
feral perch
so it's also prescience to a certain extent?
feral perch
Why couldn't it be a very minimal prescience?
versed helm
Let's take it back for a second - the augmentation procedure responsible for this would be the Superconducting Fibrification of Neural Dendrites, right?
"Alteration of bioeletrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. 300% increase in subject reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity."
modest marsh
That is to say, her eyeballs perceived that data and it was processed by her brain
versed helm
Halopedia ref.
modest marsh
Well that is the predicted result based on clinical trials on chimpanzees
versed helm
"Their reaction time, while impossible to chart accurately, was estimated to be twenty milliseconds.[21] The Spartans' reaction times were noted to be significantly faster in combat situations or with assistance from an AI. The reaction times of the SPARTAN-IIs were so fast that they, in heightened states of stress, were able to think, react and see things as if everything around them were simultaneously occurring at both a slow and rapid pace - a phenomenon dubbed "SPARTAN Time" by Kelly-087."
That's what Halopedia has to say about Spartan Time.
I just want to lay it straight out going that I accept Halopedia can be very off the mark.
modest marsh
Well as stated there, “simultaneously occurring at both a slow and rapid pace” would suggest it’s a bit more complex than just a slow mo thing
And well that’s paraphrasing of the material I’ve already provided
versed helm
Interesting canonization of certain gameplay elements, tbh.
Wasn't John's anecdotal experience of Spartan Time watching a pin for a weight bar drop noticeably slower than normal in the air?
modest marsh
I think that entire scene is meant to indicate John is under an inordinate amount of stress and still in a recovery period
Soren experienced something similar
versed helm
Come on, dude. You gotta be crazy not to see that as a demonstration of the experience of Spartan augmentations.
modest marsh
If your suggestion is that that is a feature of Spartan Time, I will agree
What I’m saying is that isn’t the full extent of what it does
It affects their perception in general in a variety of ways in accordance to what they are experiencing at a given moment
Sometimes they think faster, sometimes it’s an automatic response they themselves aren’t consciously aware of in the moment
Muscle memory and all that
versed helm
Automatic response that they're not aware of. So reflexes.
So a Spartan's reflexes are a facet of Spartan time?
Even though that makes no sense and Spartan time makes much more sense as referring to a specific phenomena.
modest marsh
I would think so, yes
versed helm
I don't understand your basis for that.
Even reading your extract.
I do not see it as evident that Naomi's reaction to the brute is encapsulated under Spartan time.
I think the earlier line about Naomi's timeframe slowing down and her mind becoming packed with data is the extent of the reference in question.
modest marsh
I don’t know what else to tell you, in both instances where Spartan Time is mentioned/alluded to, it is in reference to instances where they conduct both automatic responses and slowed perception of time itself
Otherwise why is time also going faster?
strong sage
If spartan II’s reaction time is around 20ms anyone knows whats the IV’s reaction time?
versed helm
I think you're overcomplicating it and being over-expansive with what you include as a reference to Spartan time.
strong sage
I see i seee ^^
versed helm
Spartan time seems to very specifically refer to a Spartan's perception of time.
It's in the name.
Their reflexes are different, though they would certainly work together I feel.
No quote that you have provided in my eyes supports what you're asserting, Magg.
I'll have a gander for the Spartan time segments in TFoR.
feral perch
Perhaps it's less about what it is, and more about its effect. Don't mess with Spartan-IIs
modest marsh
this is a semantical argument then, because we both agree that automatic responses and slowed thought are related even if you don’t agree that the term refers to both
But in practice, they both do the same thing
Give the Spartan an edge in acting quicker in combat
versed helm
The semantics are important because we're trying to discern the specific condition of IIIs and IVs in relation to the IIs.
We're trying to examine the factors which lead to Spartan time occurring.
The question was, fundamentally, do IIs and IIIs experience the same altered perception of time when in combat?
Actually, that's dishonest of me. The question was whether or not they experience Spartan time.
We can't resolve that until we decide whether or not Spartan time refers to time perception, or whether it is a broader state. I think all the evidence points to the former.
modest marsh
There’s a part in Halsey’s journal where she discusses augmentations that she deemed too dangerous to implement in her Spartans
One, if I recall correctly, was an adrenal stimulant
Theoretically, this would manually trigger the phenomenon
However due to the Spartans’ unique training and psychological state, that would’ve been redundant
Now, I believe the Prelate from Shadow of Intent had a very similar augmentation
Which as noted within the story, proved to be potentially lethal if abused
Makes me wonder if there was any opportunity to implement this with later Spartans
versed helm
"He pulled the pin from the locking collar on the bench press. John walked to the centre section - supposedly one gee. He held the pin a meter off the deck and dropped it. It looked as if it had fallen normally - but it also looked slow to John."
From this year's ed of TFoR, page 80.
modest marsh
Were there any notable changes?
versed helm
Not that I'm aware.
modest marsh
Not relevant to this discussion mind you, just curious
versed helm
I've yet to read through it.
Bogged down under a heap of 40k novels atm.
Also gotta force myself to finish off the Honor Harrington series. It's slow going.
modest marsh
My thing is, John clearly wasn’t uh
In full control of himself
Considering her mercilessly killed two men and paralyzed the other two within the span of 5 seconds
Which goes back to the “automatic response” bit I was talking about
versed helm
Obviously the triggering of Spartan time in that instance was erratic.
But it's the experience I'm focusing on. It seems to very specifically relate to the perception of time.
modest marsh
He was acting on the training he’d received when handling physically normal humans as a normal human
And not being able to consciously influence his own actions due to his lack of understanding, very quickly mutilated these men without realizing
If he were in super slow mo the whole time with full comprehension of what he was doing, surely he wouldn’t have killed/severely injured those men so easily
versed helm
Well I thought the lethality of their injuries stemmed from him not realizing the raw force he was exerting.
And, Spartan time may not have triggered then. Perhaps only raw instinct.
modest marsh
Well that should persist for like
versed helm
It doesn't seem as if it did.
modest marsh
The first punch
They were moving slowly relative to him, that is in fact an observation he made
But perhaps not the entire time
Ever play SUPERHOT?
modest marsh
I think that’s more or less a faithful representation of the experience
versed helm
I just read through the scene. He knows that he is faster, but the Spartan time phenomenon only seems to manifest when he drops the weight bar.
The recurring them is, he performs a series of strikes
Then the helljumper manifests the injuries
modest marsh
He said they are moving slow, like the pin
versed helm
And then he moves on to the next one
I'm reading through it again now.
That observation doesn't seem to get made.
It's implicit and understood that they are moving slower than he is, but not that his perception of time is changing.
modest marsh
The other three reacted, tightening their grips and stepping closer—but like the dropped pin, they moved slowly.
modest marsh
I think John is sort of messed up the moment he enters the gym because he’s stressed out about the changes made to his body
versed helm
Also, he moves so fast the damage is delivered before he can properly recognize it
modest marsh
It makes him uncomfortable
versed helm
Sorry, what point were you trying to make regarding Spartan time manifesting in the actual fight with the ODSTs?
That if it had, he wouldn't have hurt them?
gaunt kayak
hola
modest marsh
If John is perceiving time in slow motion then he should notice that his opponents’ bones are shattering and their limbs are bending backwards from single hits
versed helm
He does, but he doesn't deliver single hits.
Very clearly, the rhythm is "chief punched the dude three times, then he collapsed oddly against the ropes".
Paraphrasing.
modest marsh
As stated the Hunt the Truth interview, two of those men died from single hits
He just kept hitting them
gaunt kayak
el halo multi´player esta para pc?
modest marsh
Specifically, the first died from a body blow that stopped his heart
The second, his face was caved inward
stoic hamlet
Isn’t that interview questionable?
modest marsh
If this interview is to be believed, the interaction in this fight is nonsensical if we presuppose that not only was John conscious, but also viewing things in slow mo
stoic hamlet
Wasn’t that guy an actor, not the actual trooper?
modest marsh
The content of the interview matches the book’s description
And supposedly has an accompanying medical report
stoic hamlet
We know John wasn’t fully aware of his abilities at the time
versed helm
I dunno, he only seems to give each guy three or four strikes in what I'm reading.
Plus, Spartan Time proper might not have triggered.
modest marsh
Right I’m not disputing John hit them multiple times
stoic hamlet
He continued hitting them because his training dictated he keep hitting them until they collapse
versed helm
Yeah, but it wasn't a merciless constant pummelling.
stoic hamlet
He just didn’t know he, you know, caves their skulls in and killed them instantly.
versed helm
It was very fast, very efficient.
modest marsh
Why would Spartan Time not be active here though?
stoic hamlet
I think I see what @versed helm is saying
stoic hamlet
He’s saying Spartan time requires specific stimuli to trigger
modest marsh
As described, a race and crawl
stoic hamlet
Which means by and large a Spartan isn’t always in Spartan time during combat
But instead when they’re most alert and responsive
modest marsh
The race is when the Spartan has been prepared to conduct an action
The crawl is when they are planning
feral perch
I think it's quite interesting that the Black Daggers were able to do as well as they had against the Spartans during training
versed helm
Look, you're tying this together too one-sidedly Magg.
stoic hamlet
Oh? @feral perch
modest marsh
Of all times, it should be active when fighting
versed helm
Arguments you make only seem to cut one way.
feral perch
Under Avery Johnson's guidance, of course. In SILENT STORM.
versed helm
Now I might be wrong, but reading this book, there is a very specific rhythm to the fight.
modest marsh
The Black Daggers specialized in EVA, so they had a notable advantage there
versed helm
Chief recognizes the harm he deals only after he's delivered his strikes.
modest marsh
Sure
stoic hamlet
They were also a very experienced, veteran unit who had seen the worst of the Insurrection
feral perch
Yeah, Spartans prefer ground combat
modest marsh
Maybe tone it down a bit when you see the guy crumple into a red puddle?
versed helm
He didn't continue bashing dudes in red puddles.
He hit a guy three times while he was standing up, and he fell.
modest marsh
I’m being hyperbolic
stoic hamlet
Well, Joshua (who was Gold team leader) is apparently an EVA specialist, but whether that was the case during SILENT STORM isn’t known. @feral perch
modest marsh
He hit the guy so fast he was dead before John could stop punching him, and by the time he hit the ground his body was visibly disfigured and not moving
stoic hamlet
He’s arguing thatJohn should have recognized the man was dead and ceased hitting him.....maybe?
Correct me if I’m wrong @modest marsh
versed helm
If we're really gonna get inferral here, here's what might've gone down.
Chief, hits the dude once.
"Yikes, he didn't fall."
Hits the guy twice.
"What a tough customer, he's still a threat."
Hits the guy thrice, he falls
stoic hamlet
lol
versed helm
"Oh wait, I was in bullet time."
He's not entirely aware of the nature of his abilities.
modest marsh
I don’t think he makes that connection in the moment is the thing
versed helm
Because the sentence is
stoic hamlet
He didn’t,
versed helm
You're the one who was initially drawing into it. Not I.
modest marsh
He does observe the fact he mutilated this man before he begins attacking the next one though, does he not?
versed helm
To me, it very much seems as if he's running off instinct and speed in this fight.
I'll give you the play-by-play
stoic hamlet
I can check super quick, if I can find my copy
versed helm
First guy - Chief punches him in the face then punched him in the ribs. Felt bones break, but the dude was still standing. Dude staggered back. Stomped on the dude's knee. Punched him three more times, he finally falls.
Chief observes that his arm, leg and neck are at unnatural angles
Three other dudes come in. One grabs iron bar. Chief gets nervous about being surrounded.
Breaks the wrist of the dude with the bar, one move.
Breaks the second dude's pelvis with a kick, one move.
Uses the bar to knock the third dude out of the ring, one move.
That is my account of the 2019 edition version of the fight.
He went to town on the first dude, and the second through fourth guys were all down-in-one.
stoic hamlet
I’ve got the OG edition, want me to see if it matches? (Not that it really matters)
versed helm
Sure.
modest marsh
Odd
John supposedly gravely injures all 4 of them
Breaking a wrist doesn’t constitute that
versed helm
Well, to be more precise, he crushed the bones of the wrist.
By twisting the bar out of his grip.
modest marsh
versed helm
That representation of the fight doesn't line up with what I'm reading.
modest marsh
I mean that would suck but not exactly life threatening
versed helm
The dude with the bar copped it first.
He never hit anyone in the face with his fist after the initial guy.
He smashed a dude in the neck with the bar, though.
stoic hamlet
The play by play checks out in the OG as well
modest marsh
Well I have two versions of the events that suggest otherwise, one citing a medical report
versed helm
And the dude who he kicked had organs ruptured.
modest marsh
Those are consistent with the medical report
Shattered pelvis and damaged vertebrae
versed helm
So in the book, what we know for sure:
First guy: Broken ribs, broken leg, broken arm, broken neck.
Second guy: Pulverized wrist.
Third guy: Shattered pelvis, with damaged vertebrae being very plausible.
Fourth guy: Smashed in the neck with a heavy metal bar, so not pretty.
What were the inconsistencies again?
With the med report. I can't be bothered checking myself but I will if forced xD
modest marsh
My issue is with the fact that the extent of the second man’s injuries is a pulverized wrist when later iterations seem to emphasize the fact all participants were at risk of death or permanent damage from John as a result
Having your arm crush is pretty bad, yes, but far from life threatening
versed helm
Possibly permanent.
Though is any injury really that permanent for humans in Halo? They seem to be up there with the cloned organs.
Biofabrication.
Skeletal stuff might be trickier, though.
modest marsh
Apparently one of the two survivors never walked again
versed helm
Probably the guy who took the kick.
versed helm
The guy who got hit by the bar seems like he would've had to die though
If two died
The first died obviously
The guy with the wrist obviously didn't
modest marsh
Specifically it was from spinal damage
versed helm
The guy who got pelvis-obliterated seems a likely candidate for that too
modest marsh
Yes
modest marsh
That’s my issue
modest marsh
The only means of reconciling that is if he also got hit in the face
Or if it was the fourth man who had the bar, like in the Helljumper comic
versed helm
So the fourth man would've gotten his wrist pulverized when he got disarmed and sent away by a strike to the neck.
In this hypothetical re-write.
modest marsh
Lucky to be alive 
versed helm
And the second guy got smashed like in the Helljumper comic
modest marsh
This would follow the order described in the interview
versed helm
No consideration for the TFoR animation? xD
Chief straddling a guy and massacring his face like a demented serial killer intensifies
I mean, I guess it's just a matter of what takes precedence now, though.
Wait, hold up
What about the TFoR comic
There is no Helljumper murdering in the TFoR comic?!
How have I not noticed
Well, whatever. We know where we stand on this.
I want opinions on one thing, though.
To what extent are cloned or biofabricated replacements for body parts indicated to be available to humanity in Halo?
obsidian thistle
They are available.
Thats kinda the extent we know as its kinda a weird thing. Like how Cancer is meant to be cured completely yet folks still die from it
versed helm
So, hypothetical. A Marine takes a bullet in the stomach - mangles a soft organ, no bone damage, he survives. Can he just get the organ replaced and wade back into the thick of it?
feral perch
Did James-005 get a robotic arm or a flashcloned replacement?
versed helm
Like, over a period of a few weeks or months.
I'm beginning to get the impression that if you take primarily muscular or organ damage, you'll get biofabricated replacements.
But if it's an injury where a bone or such gets sheered away - basically, limbs being blown off - you'll get a mechanical replacement.
Bone seems to present an issue.
Brain tumours at least might account for cancer deaths.
obsidian thistle
Organs are easy it seems
versed helm
Hard to mess around in the brain.
obsidian thistle
Well bar that
feral perch
Buck talks about soldiers lying to themselves when they've got a cancer-ridden buddy in New Blood, or something along those lines
obsidian thistle
I believe someones mum died from it. Kats maybe... I'd need to check
versed helm
That is something I absolutely cannot remember.
Maybe he was talking about cancer caused by plasma or fuel rod exposure.
But that doesn't necessarily mean a death sentence.
feral perch
How common is that though?
modest marsh
@versed helm mind you, on all the different versions of the fight, I don’t think it’s that important to identify the specifics of it so closely and I’m not saying the original is outright wrong
feral perch
A cancer epidemic among Marines and civilians exposed to combat with the Covenant doesn't seem to be a thing
modest marsh
More important is the fact that John very much put those men on the brink of death
versed helm
Correction - three men were gravely wounded.
One man had a broken wrist.
And died.
Actually, I really want that to be canon.
343, can we please come up with a contrived reason a man died of a broken wrist and make it official canon?
feral perch
His Achilles's Wrist... Hah.
stoic hamlet
He died of shock maybe?
versed helm
Right!
Didn't the medical report say one dude got hit so hard his heart failed?
This guys wrist didn't just get broken.
feral perch
smashed
stoic hamlet
Learning his one true love, the ODST, was no longer the top of the totem pole
versed helm
It got both emotionally and physically assaulted to such a degree the poor man's heart gave out.
Alternate theory, his wrist was broken with such extreme force that it sent out fragments of bone as deadly shrapnel
John-117. The Master Chief. The Demon.
Wrist-Smiter.
stoic shale
The John.
feral perch
Gives a whole new meaning to limp wrist
versed helm
Sorta ultraviolent, horrible things.
The inconsistencies between depictions of Chief's fight in the gym with the ODSTs.
UNSC medical tech and organ flash cloning - why some get mechanical prosthetics, and others not.
I was gonna bring up how sick the idea is of a gym having a high-grav and low-grav end.
Locke would have lost almost instantly in his battle with chief but plot armour
ARGH
It always comes back to this.
Look, we've been discussing the capabilities of MJOLNIR for aaaaaages.
I've had my own misconceptions shattered.
It seems evident that one Spartan in MJOLNIR is physically much the same as another Spartan in MJOLNIR, despite the fact that the armour works by amplifying force.
The force amplification is not linear and tops off.
Chief, however, has more experience, and so he won.
Chief possibly most powerfull spartan ever vs Locke weaker spartan 4
Who would win
What I am saying is that Chief is not stronger in MJOLNIR - despite being stronger with his armour off, the armour can only amplify his physical characteristics to a certain level, a level which is also attainable by Locke despite Locke technically being weaker without it.
Chief's armour might be doing less work, but it isn't producing a more physically capable warrior.
Specialist armour, like Kelly's Hermes armour, seems to have optimizations to surpass sort of top-off level in specific characteristics.
stoic hamlet
Chief possibly most powerfull spartan ever
Yeah......no
modest marsh
Halo isn’t anime
versed helm
btw, Magg, you agree with that conceptualization?
Of the sort of end-user results of the strength amplification.
it seems to fit with what we have.
modest marsh
I think you might get diminishing returns with increased physicality, but idk about limits on the armor itself short of it breaking against their body
IVs still train to break their known limits
It’s quite possible they eventually achieve a physicality equal to that of their predecessors over prolonged refinement of their bodies through training and further development in the augmentations
Despite their sophistication and reliability, the IVs are still very much in an experimental phase
versed helm
Btw just searched "can you die from a broken wrist" in Google
modest marsh
I’m sure you can
But it wouldn’t be nearly as dramatic as having a caved in face
I guess you might say I can see a point at which a given IV could out muscle a II with their own strength
versed helm
I mean, here's the thing at the end of the day. What we have is various items of lore and one observed combat encounter that imply that MJOLNIR GEN 2 brings SIVs up-to-par, physically, with other generations of Spartans.
modest marsh
We just aren’t at that point yet because they’re still relatively new
versed helm
So there's gotta be a cap-off. Chief's armour can't be allowing him more base physical power than Locke's is.
So both Locke and Chief's motions must be getting amplified up to roughly the same output, unevenly.
modest marsh
Well if the armor can be tailored to provide a higher top off, why would the IIs including Chief not have it such that his strength could be further utilized?
Again, game mechanics, but Chief is the “brawler” on his team
Though I think that’s a fair conclusion given he is also the heaviest
versed helm
I would hazard a guess that in terms of raw supportive strength, it's hard to surpass a certain level without additional mechanical support.
While in terms of stuff like Kelly's running, for some reason that very specific motion can be optimized for to allow her armour's systems to amplify that motion with more intensity.
It's sorta explosive vs supportive strength.
Punching a man and lifting him up are two very different actions.
modest marsh
As I’ve said I don’t like conclusions drawn from that particular cutscene because I think it does a poor job of representing both parties even ignoring external material
versed helm
Running versus tug-of-war.
modest marsh
Locke can do stuff like tackle a Banshee with his armor
versed helm
Well I mean, gameplay wise Spartan IVs have always been identical to SIIs.
I feel that 343 has certainly demonstrated their intent is for them to be on-par.
While contriving lore that keeps SIIs up on a pedestal.
Because fans like our good friend power level up there exist.
modest marsh
In game, the IIs are heavier and regenerate shields/health faster I believe
versed helm
I thought those traits were on an individual basis.
In Halo 4, the experience is certainly identical.
Lemme check.
modest marsh
The IVs have a higher sprint velocity and thruster recharge, are lighter
versed helm
I am very not sure about this.
modest marsh
I recall a speedrunner mentioning this specifically
Because it affects how they interact with geometry
Blue Team has the automedic armor mod, and they individually have other armor mods
John has enhanced strength, as does Buck
Osiris have enhanced thrusters
versed helm
I uh, don't believe having an automedic armour mod translates into "stronger".
modest marsh
No, it doesn’t
versed helm
Especially considering that in Halo 4, Chief and SIVs play identically.
modest marsh
That wasn’t the point I was making
versed helm
So my point very much stands.
modest marsh
They’re meant to be distinguished in game
Them having no difference in halo 4 is obviously a resource management thing
Actually, the IVs are technically better than Chief in 4
versed helm
Distinguished, but not in a way that relates to the raw physical potential of the Spartans in MJOLNIR.
modest marsh
Because they have mods
modest marsh
Their augmentations are cited as what makes the difference in the character selection screen
versed helm
Where?
modest marsh
The character selection screen
Each character has a justification for a specific armor mod they have
versed helm
And those descriptions relate to their armor, not their augmentations
modest marsh
No
feral perch
I can't be the only one who thinks single player should have allowed you to play as different characters. It would have made zero difference to the story.
modest marsh
Locke and Chief have the unique ability to issue orders by pinging things
The other characters don’t have voicelines for that I don’t think
Which might be problematic considering how important pinging stuff is
feral perch
Hm. Developer laziness.
versed helm
Alright, touche. Shoulda checked Blue Team first.
The descriptions seem to imply that Osiris' armour is actually more sophisticated though.
Which is interesting.
versed helm
Wait wait
Chief is the only one noted to actually be stronger as a result of his augmentations
Fred is a bit of a red herring
modest marsh
Admittedly it’s been awhile since I read these
But I knew their augments were mentioned
Fred’s “specialty” has always been annoying
versed helm
Chiefs reads "his genetic and surgical augmentations afford him greater strength for increased melee damage".
modest marsh
😛
versed helm
"Frederic's augmentations and training have crafted one of the great military minds of the UNSC."
So that's a little
odd
modest marsh
What does Buck’s description say again?
Also, if memory serves, Vale should have a speed booster and enhanced thrusters
If so, she should theoretically have a faster footspeed than Kelly
Which is
Weird
versed helm
"Buck's armour, already rigged for fast thruster recharge and slow stabilizer descent, also allows for increased melee and charge damage".
So maybe his armour is configured so that his thrusters augment his strikes?
Or maybe there's further mechanical mechanisms in place.
modest marsh
That’s true of all Spartans though
versed helm
I mean, so is Chief's description.
His strength increase should apply to all the SIIs, if we're going canonically.
Unless he is specifically noted as an unusually strong individual for a Spartan.
But I don't recall that over being a thing. Wouldn't be opposed to it, though.
I think it's just a weird lopsided thing.
Chief is vanilla as hell, so they focused on something all SIIs are known for.
modest marsh
He is the biggest on Blue Team at least
limpid kernel
itd be cool if chief has bigger stronger 
modest marsh
And well, has the most impressive history in terms of strength
Of course, that’s main character syndrome
modest marsh
Sure, it’s not huge
versed helm
He is also less than an inch taller than him
Whoah, the women are actually substantially lighter.
For some reason I didn't expect that to be a thing.
Makes sense. Doesn't mean they'd necessarily be less dangerous xD
Wait
Wait a second
Male SIVs weigh about as much as Female SIIs
Female SIVs weigh only slightly less
Male SIIs are heavier by 20 kilos than Female SIIs and Male SIVs
But y'know, at the end of the day, sheer mass doesn't necessarily mean everything.
If we're really canonically discounting the visual representation of Locke vs Chief, Locke might've just been faster.
But evidently not fast enough. People forget that Chief won.
Jorge was 145 kilos
Sick lad
Emile weighed less than Linda
By 3kg
Kat is heavier than both
Carter weights less than Locke
This is a rabbit hole
I'm off to bed
Wait, Alice weighs almost as much as Fred and John at 128
Hench lass
Hench
Jerome is heavier than both Fred and John at 131 kg
stoic hamlet
If we’re talking height to weight ratio, isn’t Kurt like 8 ft tall? Dudes a bloody monster
stoic hamlet
I mean it’s probably been retconned but IIRC Ghosts of Onyx states he’s like 8 ft in SPI.
stoic hamlet
Kurt is secretly one of the lost 40K Primarchs, change my mind
modest marsh
That would make Kurt the largest SII pretty sure
modest marsh
Which is incredibly odd?
stoic hamlet
Yeah I think it’s gonna be retconned/has been unofficially
Because that’s just absurd.
Cool, but absurd
versed helm
That's Astartes heights.
stoic hamlet
Ye
versed helm
I think they should just go the other way and retcon Sam taller
modest marsh
Douglas is the tallest Spartan ignoring older numbers
stoic hamlet
Make Kurt like 7’0-7’3 or something and it’s fine.
But like 8 ft, lol
What’s his height? @modest marsh
stoic hamlet
Where’d that pic come from?
versed helm
Alice
modest marsh
Lol
stoic hamlet
We don’t even know what Jerome looks like
I wouldn’t mind seeing all their faces
Maybe not Douglas’s again
versed helm
He's gotta look suave asf, tbh.
stoic hamlet
But Alice and Jerome
versed helm
Given how Jerome has been discussed in the past - as a real Spartan extravert - he is probably conventionally handsome.
Alice, on the other hand, I imagine being a sorta Vasquez type.
The Aliens character.
But I'm going off voices here.
versed helm
Shouldn't he be pretty youthful?
stoic hamlet
Yeah
stoic hamlet
But the voice doesn’t fit that, IMO
But yeah he’s like 19 biologically
Oh lol he’s younger than the Gammas
versed helm
That is actually really cool.
stoic hamlet
Or on par, anyways
stoic hamlet
Hah
I actually wouldn’t mind seeing them all together, every S-2 as of, say, 2552
Kurt would look the oldest, most likely, while Red Team would look the youngest
And then John and co would be somewhere in the middle
versed helm
Screw it, throw in all the Spartans side-by-side
stoic hamlet
all of them?
versed helm
I mean, it's not canon, is it?
Man, I wanna see every book character's face now.
So sad we didn't get McKay popping up in Raven.
True UNSC hero.
stoic hamlet
That’s......lol I’m imagining them organized by groups, the S-II’s would be a blip compared to the S-III’s.
It’s like, 60 at most compared to potentially over 1k
I was surprised she didn’t appear either tbh
Really wish she did
stoic hamlet
Best ODST
versed helm
Your not being horrible to Chief and not infecting Earth with the Flood is appreciated
Tbh, random tangent
It really gets me down how people are about Palmer
stoic hamlet
Wdym?
versed helm
Oh, you hear how popular opinion is surrounding her?
stoic hamlet
Yeah, of course
versed helm
How she was disrespectful or trying too hard to be cool or whatever.
I guess it's died down now.
stoic hamlet
But that seems to have changed as time has gone on
versed helm
I grew pretty attached to her as character during Spartan Ops - she's certainly something fresh. Scrappy and ferocious, if a little unwise.
carmine sleet
I honestly have no issues with her character, many like to think that she was meant to be 343i's Johnson replacement but she never came across as that
versed helm
She's an actual character instead of a charisma dispenser.
stoic hamlet
^^^^
versed helm
And she kicked some serious butt in Escalation.
carmine sleet
Not to mention she has one of the best VAs in the business
versed helm
Oh, Jennifer Hale! I didn't realize.
Should've. Femshep for the win.
Anyway, I hope they don't just get rid of her in Infinite.
Obviously soldiers die or whatever, and stories must be told. But the characters of the Reclaimer saga need to be honoured.
Otherwise it won't be satisfying.
carmine sleet
Indeed, doesn't matter whether they're fan favourites or not, can't just kill someone off for the sake of killing them off, it's got to feel (in a weird and twisted way) earned
carmine sleet
Yeah... Black Team's deaths should've at least been the subject of an entire comic issue
Or they could've lived and helped Blue Team against the Didact, maybe with one of them sacrificing themself to help stop him
left portal
Plz. Just retcon Black Team's death. Say they were all seriously injured or something. ;'(
carmine sleet
I mean, one of them was missing their head, kinda hard to retcon that to being injured
feral perch
they could just decanonize that story
vivid dust
important stuff happens in this arc
specifically the Didact being composed or whatever
feral perch
they could also decanonize the entirety of escalation
unique rune
To play up how dangerous the Didact is and because fanservice.
All of which was done poorly, but oh well.
gilded mason
Didn't Reed say in the commentary he killed off Black Team just to hype up the Didact?
stoic hamlet
Pretty sure he did, yeah
But IMO I wouldn’t mind them dying if we had actually seen the fight and Black Team put up a genuine fight
That’s what annoys me about it. Not necessarily them being dead, but them just not seemingly having done anything to the Didact.
obsidian thistle
Note at that time. The Didact was not known as a threat to them.
stoic hamlet
To who?
feral perch
What bugged me was how Blue Team reacted. "Oh well, they're dead. Moving on."
versed helm
So um today's topic?
ocean vine
I think after all the death they have seen theyd be able to deal with it
stoic hamlet
We don’t have a topic of the day mate
versed helm
That's a change
stoic hamlet
That’s not how this place works
versed helm
Guess I will make it
feral perch
Not even something along the lines of a "Goodbye, Grace" or mourning afterwards, ala Sam
versed helm
Ok so what are you all talking about
ocean vine
It went from palmer to black team
vivid dust
I wish we had a Halo 4 Campaign mission with Palmer
ocean vine
the only thing i found odd about her was the disrespect for chief when they first met
stoic hamlet
It wasn’t disrespect.
vivid dust
this isn't disrespect lol
The odd thing about this scene is the fact that she doesn't have her helmet on
ocean vine
well not really maybe but when you see someone like that for the first time it felt out of place
versed helm
I wish we got to play a mission as palmer
stoic hamlet
I don’t think it felt out of place
vivid dust
me neither
versed helm
Why does everyone hate palmer?
stoic hamlet
We have a few examples of people reacting to Spartan II’s with jokes and teasing
ocean vine
i like her tbh, just not that part
stoic hamlet
Most people who read the lore don’t hate her
vivid dust
I wish we had some kind of infiltration mission in Halo 4 with a team of Spartans, maybe Crimson idk, to get the coordinates of the gravity well
versed helm
Like me
vivid dust
because they literally found them in a swamp
ocean vine
i hope that in infinite theyll flash out her relationship with laskey a bit more
versed helm
I hope in infinite we play as her just to annoy some people
stoic hamlet
Crimson weren’t assigned to Infinity at the time IIRC
vivid dust
Halo 4's cast was good, but there was just n reason for Palmer to be there
stoic hamlet
But yeah I get what you mean
vivid dust
oh they weren't?
stoic hamlet
They were recently transferred fo the return to requiem I believe
ocean vine
well her being spartan division commander felt quite logical to me
itd be weird if it was laskey doing that
vivid dust
yep according to Halopedia they were
stoic hamlet
They were aboard during the first battle?
vivid dust
no lol they weren't
stoic hamlet
Ah just wanted clarification
vivid dust
you're right
obsidian thistle
We know of very little teams that were onboard infinity during the first crash and escape.
Fireteam Shadow however were there.
stone mortar
I wonder where bungie was going to go with forerunner origins. Probably ancient humans because of the "you ARE forerunner" quote by guilty spark.
carmine sleet
I'm glad 343i didn't go with that honestly, ancient humans turning out to be the ancient race that you're dealing with the technology of is such an overused cliche
obsidian thistle
I am glad Bungie didn't go with that also and that line was a leftover from a old version of Halo 3.
obsidian thistle
Prior to "IRIS" existing. Bungie had planned and hinted at Humans and Forerunners being 1 the same.
It was during Halo 3s development that it changed and Bungie pushed it with "IRIS".
Its kinda why prior to Halo 3 we have a few oddities here and there regarding the Forerunners tbh.
supple field
Sorry for tossing out a really ramdon question
Does any info indicated how many "people" is require to get a CRS-class light cruiser operational?
or generally how many ppl are usually used in the ship of covenant
supple field
9!?
grizzled marsh
Yes. 1 Superior and 8 Menials. I believe this doesn't include Covenant equivalent of Marines and landing forces.
supple field
i see thanks for the answer. im trying to recreate the senario of swrod base under attack so im collecting all the realistic detail i can get
but i assume the light crusier still carry at least hundreds of army to get most of the weapon and transport operational?
grizzled marsh
Probably. It wasn't used in a warship capacity all that much during the war, so it's hard to say.
supple field
i see thanks a lot
grizzled marsh
No problem.
wispy bough
Just wanna double check. This giant cylinder shaped object in The Ark's centre is a planet, right?
wispy bough
Did somebody just open a slipspace portal and teleport it to the Ark or?
Curious how that all works
gilded mason
That's probably the jist of it.
grizzled marsh
It's possible that it was already in slipspace and the Forerunners pulled it out. We know asteroids and meteors can enter slipspace. Maybe with all the distortions in slipspace during the Forerunner-Flood war, the moon got trapped.
supple field
Hmm . odd.. how exactly did sword base got overrunned yet the serect wasnt discover until noble team was there. there is little info after noble team left sword base
versed helm
Matter of luck, I guess.
Whatever technology the UNSC had in place prevented the Covenant from identifying it until NOBLE entered.
During the battle beforehand, the Covenant weren't looking for anything, so never found the hidden entrance.
supple field
i see. since i might run a TRPG with the fall of reach. so im figuring how things will run during the sword base attack and there army Strangh. and how things go down later on
I do recall they the Cov has some kind of atricfact seeking team which noble team encountered
fair hazel
it's actually a sphere. It could have been a rogue planetoid. It could have been in slipspace somehow. It could have been pulled. It's the resource moon.
stoic peak
During Halo Renegades would Spark (343 Guilty Spark) be older than the Liberian now?
supple field
Hmm here is another Question
im looking into the Super MAC in REACH . im curios how the power is transfered to the mac cannon ?
if is by the huge pillar of the station. isnt it kind of weak to long range bombing? why does ground assulting the ground power the best way?
stoic hamlet
Because Plasma dissipates over time, and the SMAC’s could outrange basically every Covenant ship on the field bar one, which, once eliminated, meant the SMAC’s could fire on the enemy with impunity.
stoic hamlet
where ya from bud?
supple field
u know the asin town Richmond BC
stoic hamlet
nice! I’m from Toronto ON, myself.
stoic hamlet
We’ve had pretty bad weather lately, lotta rain.
versed helm
That's just the uk
gaunt karma
rain yesterday
was great
though, not exactly the greatest time
as my dad is currently replacing the roof
radiant sphinx
Few tornadoes hit Indy
hybrid musk
Important Halo ICONIC lore i see ICONIC HiddenXperia playing COD
carmine sleet
He's allowed to play more than just Halo
hybrid musk
Idk im just joking btw i kno he got a life
Ok now for a real question
Is Lord Hood in INFINITE
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
hybrid musk
I would like to see his bald head fully HD in infinite
carmine sleet
I mean, you can see him in HD in Halo 2 Anniversary
versed helm
^
versed helm
What gameplay footage? Infinite?
vivid dust
Is Lord Hood still younger than Johnson in 2560?
versed helm
Just use H2A
hybrid musk
Still im still hyped
latent bramble
Would a Skirmisher have a reptilian heart or an avian heart?
humble yacht
likely avian
fair hazel
they're aliens. analogues to earth should only be considered analogues
quartz willow
I wouldn't say that the grunts share many traits with crustaceans which they heavily resemble. They have the hardened exoskeleton. They have very poor sight and have hands that look like pinchers.
Jackals also resemble birds and they squawk. They have a matriarchy. And they have nests. They may not lay eggs but those traits alone would link them to birds and other avians
dreamy tulip
Maybe an ancient kind of dinosaur from another earth like planet that an asteroid didn't hit
latent bramble
Im sure kig-yar lay eggs
dreamy tulip
They are more evolved dinos
inner basin
I mean they look like dinos with their jaw sticking out
last anchor
@latent bramble Kig-yar do, in fact, lay eggs.
supple field
hmmm. so there is no appeaance of Jiralhanae during the fall of reach?
gilded mason
As in, during the book, or the event?
supple field
im confused about the setting that the old novel said reach fall in one day but game takes the weeks
the event
gilded mason
In the game, you fight brutes.
supple field
im recreating the event as a TRPG Story
gilded mason
In a few places, at least
supple field
i see so they do appeared on REACH
gilded mason
the old novel said reach fall in one day but game takes the week
Yeah, wasn't really a change I enjoyed.
supple field
i heared they also relase a new ver of the novel to change it
dispite of the dislike
a month of failing is easier to set the story then the one day drop
also i assume a lot of arsenal showed in Halo war does appear and used on reach?
limpid meadow
There were re-releases of "The Fall of Reach", "The Flood", and "First Strike" in 2010, and while there were a few changes, they were mostly minor and/or related to grammar
For example, they removed references to Elites, Hunters, and Brutes first being encountered in 2552 (as they were in the original prints of the aforementioned books)
versed helm
What is chief's VISOR made out of? Like, you have your first person view but then you can insert a chip or whatever like in CE where you could view Jenkin's cam footage. Does it display inside cheif's VISOR or what
stoic hamlet
Spartans have shared video feeds with one another in the lore before, usually to assess a situation that they’re not all there for, I.E, a scout transmitting their feed back to the main unit.
As for Jenkins cam, yes, the feed displayed inside John-117’s visor. Likely not the entire screen, but instead a small portion of it.
versed helm
Remind me,Sangheili lay eggs right
gilded mason
Yes
versed helm
Which makes me wonder..how do Forerunners give birth?
versed helm
I'm betting live birth
Or maybe by cloning
Another thing that comes to mind..how do the Lekgolo reproduce?
versed helm
Question for you - how do worms reproduce.
dim linden
um they go to the bed room and do it