Is there any name for the following Spartans? Red-Fifteen, Spartan 073, Spartan G059?
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
last anchor
No, no, and no
obsidian thistle
If the wiki doesnt say. Then its likely we dont. XD
celest palm
Do we know the height of the Poseidon-class light carrier? I did some digging but came up short
celest palm
Ok thanks
shrewd trout
at least 15 feet tall
feral perch
I thought Ash's number was G059
versed helm
Hello ! I just finished Envoy. Does anyone know which team Osman is referring to at the end of the book ? They seem to be spartans as well, maybe Blue Team or Kilo-5 ?
carmine sleet
Kilo-5 wasn't a Spartan team, they only had one active Spartan serving on that team
stoic hamlet
Ash is G099 @feral perch
feral perch
Right.
stoic hamlet
G059 is a girl (or woman I guess as of 2558)
I’ll double check for you @versed helm But it could have been any generation Spartan team. IV’s, II’s, III’s, etc
versed helm
@carmine sleet yeah I know there's only Naomi as a spartan in the team. But still it doesn't answer the question
warm wigeon
@final python welcome dude
dreamy tulip
Is the spartan from halo legends 1337 I think but is he lore or no
gilded mason
Are you asking if he's canon...?
dreamy tulip
Yea I meant that
gilded mason
He is not.
dreamy tulip
Ok
versed helm
Odd One Out is non-canon
haughty python
What type of Mjolnir GEN2 armor wear John-117 in Halo 5?
versed helm
@haughty python it's Mk-VI with a custom body
unique rune
Officially designated Mark VI [GEN2] MOD, if I remember correctly...
versed helm
ye
quartz willow
Good morning lore bois
flint nexus
Anubody else favored Reach?
quartz willow
Which book or game
flint nexus
Game
quartz willow
Yes game was great
flint nexus
The graphics were pretty decent, and the armor system was amazing
quartz willow
Yes reach and halo 3s graphics were really advanced for there time periods of gaming
flint nexus
AND you didn't have to open a stupid REQ pack to gain armor
quartz willow
Yea well to be fair 343 have given us all the dlc and stuff for halo 5 free
flint nexus
i know
its just that for some players, they like to collect the armor
like me for instance
quartz willow
And around that time period loot boxes and stuff were just starting to be used
flint nexus
true
quartz willow
So most developers rarely used them because they were highly untested
flint nexus
but yeah, i mostly played Reach and Halo 4 to collect the armor
flint nexus
Me to
quartz willow
Also pretty sure I found a hacker in invasion last night
flint nexus
Why do people hack Halo Reach? First off, it got update so you can level up pretty easily
quartz willow
Cause I started before the game with 200000 credits and as a legend than after the game I had 1200000 credits and I was a hero I was like dang i must have been playing for hours when i noticed it
flint nexus
All you have to do is combine Grifball grind with that, and you end up earning 20,000 points if you do it right, and you could probably earn even more
quartz willow
Yea I just mainly like the pvp game modes on reach that's why I mainly play infection btb and invasion
flint nexus
I love grifball, even though i'm no good at it
carmine sleet
I feel like this discussion is better off in #471789476889231371
quartz willow
See ya dude I'm doing the same right now
@pallid halo 343 explains that the forerunners chose humanity to be the reclaimers of the forerunner and human legacy
versed helm
yay
@pallid halo that's technically still accurate
Humans were supposed to be the ones to ascend to the mantle of responsibility after the forerunner
and technically still are
carmine sleet
But humanity isn't a direct descendant of the Forerunner race, genetically speaking, which I believe is what Ombres is trying to say
versed helm
correct
pallid halo
quartz willow
Ok
keen brook
Humanity was indexed
But they aren't strictly forerunner, still two different species.
More or less
That whole bit is kind of complicated
gaunt karma
SPI armor is more for stealth rather than protection
violet vine
remote spruce
Uhhh wat
quartz willow
Wat do you mean @violet vine
quartz willow
Oof
stoic hamlet
Oh are we having a SPI discussion?
remote spruce
Or read the summary in a relevant Halo wiki, plug plug
stoic hamlet
Shoot I missed it
meager torrent
Cortana is probably gonna die in halo 6
quartz willow
Probably
meager torrent
Is he going to aliven’t in halo 6?
Probably gonna do a halo 3 type ending in case the game flops
So that way at least they can end it off if it fails and be able to continue it if it turns out successful
With chief drifting somewhere in space
stoic shale
it's going to be based on him. so i doubt he's gonna die.
carmine sleet
I mean, you can tell a story focused on one character and still kill that character
Look at the film Logan, the main protagonist of that film died at the end yet it's one of the best films of this decade due to it's well written story
quartz willow
Many games do that I can't name one besides some endings in fable
stoic shale
I like and want to believe that they won't kill him.
carmine sleet
They might not, but if the speculation that Infinite will be the last Chief focused game, I'd say killing him off in a similar vain to how Wolverine got killed at the end of Logan would be a good way to end his story
Obviously not in the same way but with an emotional impact like the death in that film had
carmine sleet
Sometimes characters are killed off, that's just the reality of story telling, sometimes someone we care for dies
stoic shale
I guess so.
The thing is, why are people saying that he'll die?
When did this idea start up?
stoic hamlet
It’s a possibility
last anchor
People have been predicting Chief's death at the end of games since at LEAST Halo 3. And technically they were right about Halo 3
stoic shale
Ye
last anchor
But now since this is the 6th Halo game to feature Chief, they're starting to wonder where he could go, and they noticed Locke was a thing.
IMO he should just be allowed to retire. Im sick of unhappy endings for my favorite characters
stoic shale
Same here.
gilded mason
I'd be good with him retiring after this.
stoic shale
I hope he doesn't.
last anchor
Give him Palmer's job
stoic shale
h
stoic hamlet
I don’t think he knows how
vivid dust
Yeah I don't think he can as long as he's combat-able
unless he gets severely wounded or straight up dies I don't see Chief ever stopping
autumn urchin
how wealthy is master chief
meager torrent
He is worth more than a small fleet that’s for sure
carmine sleet
I mean, Chief has never had a need for money due to how his life is
autumn urchin
is he a celebrity
gilded mason
He has action figures in-universe apparently.
quartz willow
That's pretty cool
keen brook
He might die
They said it might be an rpg thing based on the choices the character makes
So
Depends maybe
carmine sleet
There's been nothing official saying that the next Halo will be an RPG based on choices
Just hearsay and rumour
dreamy tulip
I heard halo 8nfinite has master chief
last anchor
Making Infinite RPG style would be kind of silly.
Its gonna be an FPS, same as the rest of them (bar Wars) have been
Remember how badly people took 5s change of viewpoint...changing the entire game style would cause catastrophic fanrage
low idol
change of viewpoint, like playing as locke so much? i honestly think people just didnt like the character. if they got to play as arbiter for half the game, i doubt anyone would have complained about that.
humble yacht
People did complain about it back when it first happened in Halo 2
only after H2 did Arbiter become a fan favorite character
last anchor
It was more balanced tho, cause you got as many missions with him as with Chief I think.
That MIGHT have something to do with it? I didnt bother me any.
humble yacht
that is true, H2 was closer to 50:50
but even so, popular opinion changes with time
It's entirely possible that after Infinite, Locke will be looked back upon as a good character. You never know with these kinds of things
gilded mason
Though at least with Thel, you got a character arc out of him within his game.
As for Locke, he seemed around as bland as John was in Halo 2 and 3.
main frost
No, people whinged quite heavily about not playing as chief the entire time
turbid brook
I like Locke
main frost
It was a legit thing.
last anchor
I heard a lot of complaints about not rolling with Blue Team, and how Osiris just seemed flat
Lot of people really didn't like Vale for some reason
gilded mason
Lot of people really didn't like Vale for some reason
I've seen good points rolled out by some people.
last anchor
Im indifferent. Shes an okay character, but a lot of people HATED her for some reason.
Most of them tended to get really political so I tend to ignore those, but the ones that were lore-based had to do with how her story was kind of weirdly...flat?
Bunch of people weren't clear on how she became a Spartan, even after the events of Hunters in the Dark and the mention of her beating a bunch of people in martial arts
turbid brook
To be fair yeah, she is...flaaattttt.... but not as flat as Tanaka or Buck
plus Buck is smug
carmine sleet
I hope we get to see more of Vale in the future, even if it's just because I want to see her and Fred interact due to their VAs being married
Also, Buck is hardly flat
turbid brook
Honestly if Locke, Buck, Tanaka, Vale, Fred, Linda and Kelly don't return in Infinite I'm gonna be upset a bit
carmine sleet
Osiris seem unlikely, Blue Team could
gilded mason
Less Spartans, the better. That's my motto. 👌
last anchor
At least mention them.
Or have them be in a tie-in book.
Bucks runing with ALpha-9 now tho
Hmm.
Ohh. Vales with the Sangheili. Tanakas off building stuff (Gundam)
turbid brook
Tie-in books really are what made H5's plot so messy in the first place
last anchor
"Yeah remember that Mantis they gave me to work on, the one Chief broke?"
(Tanaka strides onto the field piloting a freaking Zaku)
"I upgraded it.
turbid brook
It was treated to be on the same level as the books, if that makes sense
stoic hamlet
Poor writing and out of nowhere ideas are what made it messy
modest marsh
There’s a lot of potential for other Spartans to just show up in Infinite
Majestic is a big one on my mind
Osiris and Alpha Nine could also be there
Heck, there’s a buttload of Spartan-IIs that could show up
The rest of Blue Team, Red Team, Grey Team, Omega Team, Naomi
stoic shale
What about Bucks team?
modest marsh
Alpha Nine
stoic shale
Ye
modest marsh
Spartan-IIIs like Jun, Tom, Lucy, Owen, and Hazel, as well as the several Gammas are all decent candidates to make cameo appearances
stoic shale
It would be cool to see Jun back
stoic hamlet
315 Gammas still unaccounted for
stoic hamlet
As long as they aren’t black teamed I wouldn’t mind seeing them
carmine sleet
I doubt they'd just kill off 315 Gammas like that
stoic hamlet
They killed of 4 S-2’s in a comic and we didn’t even see the fight
But yeah I doubt they would. Or at least I hope
carmine sleet
I think 343i learnt their mistake with Black Team, they know their deaths didn't go over well with the community, especially since it happened off screen/page
feral plover
Some say that there are more ways than just starving to kill the flood.
Of course, the Halo ring, but that's reckless.
Anybody have any other potential ideas for the destruction of the flood?
quartz willow
A good old flamethrower @feral plover
feral plover
True, but I was thinking on a massive scale.
quartz willow
Glassing
feral plover
As in total annihilation.
quartz willow
Orbital bombardment
But besides that Halo is really the only option
Besides If you made a virus or something that targeted and ate the flood supercell which in my guess would probably infect the virus
But I'm no expert in Gene's and biology
feral plover
A virus to counter a virus.
quartz willow
Yea
feral plover
considering most of the Flood is still unknown and they know almost nothing about them genetically.
quartz willow
It gives your body a virus to use against said virus
feral plover
True
They just need to somehow come up with a genetically violent toxin/virus that eats away at the flood
If they can get their hands on a subject.
Though flood are known for their volatile activity.
feral plover
They could get a subject from flood containment on Halo, but that would risk a total breakout.
quartz willow
Just tears the supercell apart
gilded mason
And the Forerunners kinda already tried to figure that out.
feral plover
True that
So if you want to save generations upon generations from total infection, you'll have to sacrifice yourself.
quartz willow
Yea which would make it super difficult for ONI who is milineias behind them in technology
gilded mason
First Strike explains.
feral perch
Read Halo: First Strike by Eric Nylund to find out! 😀
pallid halo
oh
gilded mason
Main thing is, he and several others were able to escape in a pelican a bit before the Autumn went boom.
pallid halo
When was First strike written
feral perch
2003
gilded mason
Yes.
feral perch
It released before Halo 2, so that's ideal.
versed helm
It's certainly worthwhile to read.
But it's also important not to take it too seriously as hard-and-fast canon. Some of its ideas have been sorta... overruled by more recent media.
feral perch
I would say those would be more minor details.
last anchor
Most of it works
echo pine
Hey guys. Did the UNSC have any in atmosphere fighters besides the hornet and pelican?
stoic hamlet
Like purely in atmosphere? Or exo-atmospheric?
echo pine
Ah okay. So im assuming all fighters can be both in and out of atmosphere?
versed helm
not all no i think.
versed helm
hornets cant iirc
last anchor
@echo pine The things you described aren't fighters, they're attack VTOLs. Entirely different thing.
So, yes, they have several, but mostly they're exoatmospheric as well.
The Wasp, Hornet, and Sparrowhawk are all VTOLs, as is the Vulture.
The Pelican is a transport
ACTUAL fighters include the Wombat from ODST, the Saber, the Broadsword, Baselard, and Longsword. All are exoatmospheric as well
versed helm
i just assumed they generalized aerial vehicles into their term "fighter"
echo pine
Very rarely do I see stuff categorized so nicely so I was just bunching all small air vehicles like a fighter jet as fighters. But thanks for the information
Now I know!
versed helm
but hornets and pelicans act nothing like fighter jets
stoic hamlet
Oh, the Skyhawk is another one
Also a VTOL craft but it’s an atmospheric strike fighter
upper star
The only aircraft the UNSC used which were fighter aircraft was the manned Longsword, Saber and Broadsword while the Wombat and Baselard UCAVs were capable of engaging covenant single craft.
The shortsword bomber from halo wars 1 was the only in atmosphere exclusive, canon air frame used by the UNSC.
Pelicans, Vultures and the Hawk variants were the only VTOLs capable of in and outer atmosphere action. Though the pelican/condor is the only one out if the three as far as we know capable of exiting atmosphere on it's own. The other two can't.
Wasp is a light gunship. Hornet is a light, small UNSC interpretation of the Mi-26 Hind assault gunship. Falcon is army assault transport. Condor is a heavy lift transport or converted into a heavy gunship.
upper star
What series?
celest island
The assault rifle weapon series video
I’ve been looking for it for days
I gtg so DM me pls. @celest island
I gtg soon
stoic hamlet
YouTube probably.
celest island
I was on YouTube
;-;
It’s from halo follower I think
Ok gtg bye @celest island dm me if ya find it, it will be a great help
quartz willow
@celest island look it up by latenightgaming I watched it before
keen brook
Who would wanna see Tartarus fight Atriox
I feel like Atriox would win
By like a little
versed helm
I feel like he'd probably win fairly easily.
carmine sleet
Well, that fight's not going to happen since Tartarus is dead. Plus it would just be Atriox beating Tartarus easily anyway
versed helm
I doubt Tartarus could come even close to taking on 3 Spartans.
humble yacht
Tbf fair Tartarus was Chieftain of all brutes for a reason
not to mention that his gear was better
unless Atriox has a support team, I doubt he could solo Tartarus
carmine sleet
Fair points
humble yacht
Fist of Rukt, more like Fist of Rekt
vivid dust
Kinda wish the Tartarus boss fight had range attacks like what he does in the cutscenes
Firing electricity or whatever
versed helm
I think they definitely didn’t do that because of balance (and time constraints)
modest marsh
Tartarus’s energy shield and stronger weapon would give him the edge over Atriox in the hardware department
feral perch
Also, Tartarus energy shield was only susceptible to particle beam rifle shots.
Not sure if that's actually canon, but for a fight, why not include it?
modest marsh
It’s presumably vulnerable to all forms of damage
humble yacht
I imagine some other high-powered energy weapon would do the trick but it's not like those are super easy to come by and use in a 1-on-1 fight
feral perch
I actually think Tartarus would have a good chance at beating Atriox. One good smash from the Fist of Rukt, and Atriox is stunned, if not unconscious.
Chain breaker has to get through not only Tartarus' shields, but also his thick hide. We saw in HW2, it didn't even shatter open Douglas's old Mark IV chest plate.
humble yacht
I think Atriox would have the tactical advantage, for whatever that's worth. But the physical advantage goes to Tartarus
feral perch
For sure, Atriox is definitely smarter, and maybe more agile. Maybe.
humble yacht
Tartarus was everyone's chieftain
feral perch
Yep
versed helm
in the covenant sure, but like, outside of the covenant
feral perch
I don't remember that being stated anywhere
versed helm
it probably wasnt, i might just be pulling strings out of thin air
humble yacht
Tartarus first took over his own clan then later became super Chieftain
keen brook
Shields probably wouldn't matter it would come to Melee fights
And they would cause they're brutes
Atriox was a bloodstar that's the only reason why I'd say he would win along with him being calm and him taking out 3 Spartans like nothing
Tartarus is pretty strong too but I say Atriox has a little more of an edge
stoic hamlet
He took out 3 nerfed Spartans, not 3 Spartans at their peak
carmine sleet
I'd say they were still waking up from being in cyro for 30 years and that's why they struggled so much against Atriox the first time
carmine sleet
I mean, if you were sleeping for 30 years, I think you'd struggle to fight a large alien with a fancy mace
keen brook
Jerome fought off an entire flood infestation alone in the sof
After waking up
I think he's fine
carmine sleet
But that was long before Halo Wars 2
stoic hamlet
We’ve seen how Spartans fight in the books and how they fought in that cutscene was nowhere near their full potential, they made stupid mistakes and didn’t act like Spartans
Especially when Atriox just stand there and let’s them leave, and Alice has a clean shot on his unshielded head but doesn’t fire.
keen brook
I get what you're saying but even so Atriox has so many other advantages over them. It could've been choreographed better sure, though it would still end up the same.
stoic hamlet
Advantages like?
keen brook
Speed, strength
They still wouldn't have won
Tell me what they could've done to win against Atriox
Different choices
stoic hamlet
They’re faster, can think and move in essentially slow motion, Spartans react to threats without consciously thinking about it, he’s a close ranger combatant, all they needed was range, which they got, but didn’t fire.
keen brook
Atriox eliminated their range advantage with his mace
stoic hamlet
Not at the end of the fight
keen brook
They were only focused on getting them out
stoic hamlet
Additionally no one made a move to get distance, they ran at him
They had a clear shot
keen brook
Yeah cause range wouldn't have worked anyway
keen brook
No you see what he did to close the gap
stoic hamlet
An unarmoured head
keen brook
And they can react in slow motion Spartans can sure, though still Atriox is really fast.
And bigger
I know the Spartans advantages
And they didn't take the shot cause Atriox honestly might have taken the shot and lived. It's really unlikely but
A brute can take a whole clip
And still fight
gilded mason
They could've shot him in the ten seconds of nothing happening while Atriox was holding Douglas (?). Like, they just let that happen with no resistance.
keen brook
Cause they just got the crap kicked out of them
stoic hamlet
They nerfed Red Team to make Atriox look tough.
keen brook
And their guns were all out of hand
modest marsh
There’s a lot of discussion about the Atriox fight
stoic hamlet
No they weren’t
Alice was holding a BR55 which at most fired 9 rounds
That’s still 27 rounds to use
keen brook
If they tried to raise the gun, Atriox would've seen it. Douglas was in the way and honestly she might not have had a clear shot at the head
modest marsh
It’s worth noting at the time, Red Team were equipped with early-war Mark IV armor which may or may not have had prototype energy shielding
stoic hamlet
And she had a clear shot with no obstacles and a target in less than 10 feet away
keen brook
And Atriox would've tanked them.
stoic hamlet
At the end of the fight
The end of the fight. Look at the end of the fight and tell me that makes any sense
modest marsh
The technological disadvantage they had versus how modern Spartans are equipped cannot be ignored
keen brook
At the end, if they didn't take the shot it doesn't justify them being nerfed
Jerome didn't give the order either
To shoot
stoic hamlet
Why would they repeatedly charge him? That’s not how Spartans fight. We’ve seen them adapt to similar situations with seemingly impossible to best opponents
keen brook
They just had to get out of there
stoic hamlet
Why would he need to give the order?
versed helm
What were their options other than trying to get in close and do damage?
keen brook
Cause he's the team leader
modest marsh
Shoot with their rifles
keen brook
Yeah like I've said
stoic hamlet
Atriox is a threat, Spartans eliminate threats without consciouslyl thinking
keen brook
Atriox could've closed the distance as SOON as they started trying to shoot from distance
versed helm
Jesus Christ that's one of the dumbest bits of bluster I've ever heard, Eternal.
keen brook
With his mace
modest marsh
Huh?
stoic hamlet
Before Alice fires at least a burst? Unlikely
modest marsh
What he said has precedent
versed helm
"Spartans eliminate threats without consciously thinking"?!
stoic hamlet
Yes
versed helm
I mean, how is that A) relevant
stoic hamlet
In certain instances
modest marsh
Yes that it is factual
versed helm
And B) how did their response not corroborate with it
keen brook
They should change this channels name to debate
versed helm
deedee
No, it's just mindless big-upping
Nothing factual about it
On some metaphorical level it makes sense - on a psychological level.
But in terms of actual tactical response it's meaningless.
modest marsh
I thought you were disputing the accuracy of the statement
versed helm
I just think this discussion and the reasoning occurring behind it is entering many shades of narrow-minded and stupid.
With people deriving pleasure from talking about how "powerful" Spartans should be.
modest marsh
What his point of emphasis is the fact that the delay on the Spartans attacking is a small fraction on the time it takes for an opponent to cover a distance
keen brook
They are powerful but Atriox was stronger
stoic hamlet
I mentioned it because I see no reason for Alice to hold her fire in that situation.
Heck, in the original announcement trailer she is firing.
versed helm
She was firing at a different moment, and likely not at Atriox.
stoic hamlet
But strength is irrelevant at a range.
modest marsh
Strength doesn’t matter if you’re still a flesh and blood animal who is permeable to rifle rounds
versed helm
The reason she held her fire is presumably because she was absolutely aware Atriox could kill them in a heartbeat if he wanted to - he could close the distance, and unless they wanted to leave Douglas behind, they probably couldn't escape.
modest marsh
So you agree if Alice had shot Atriox in the head he would die
keen brook
Exactly
versed helm
I actually don't, to be honest.
stoic hamlet
He could close the distance before she fired?
keen brook
Wouldn't be a good idea if they got a chance to escape and blew it
stoic hamlet
What?
versed helm
I see it as profoundly unlikely he didn't have full-body energy shielding.
stoic hamlet
He doesn’t
modest marsh
He was stabbed
stoic hamlet
We see he doesn’t because several pistol rounds hit the armour
versed helm
Knives have always played by odd rules with shielding.
gilded mason
I don't recall any shields flaring when he gets hit with their bullets.
versed helm
I just frankly assume their velocity isn't high enough for shields to prevent them from penetrating, most often.
modest marsh
The field guide suggests they just punch through via overloading them
That theory doesn’t stand up
stoic hamlet
There were no shield flares when Jerome fires his M6C
keen brook
Atriox didn't have shields
versed helm
A stab wouldn't logically have any more kinetic force than a rifle round.
stoic hamlet
We know the rounds it fires triggers shields
keen brook
Also again, Jerome didn't give the order to fire
modest marsh
It penetrates steel
keen brook
He's team leader
modest marsh
He could’ve nonverbally designated the target
keen brook
?
modest marsh
MJOLNIR is thought-driven
keen brook
He didn't though
modest marsh
You don’t know that
meager torrent
I wonder how big master chief is
versed helm
That's a dumb argument Dangai
keen brook
It isn't
versed helm
It's a dumb argument against a dumb premise
keen brook
It's not dumb. She follows Jerome
keen brook
And also I'm just saying it's a possibility
stoic hamlet
Jerome was assisting Douglas
versed helm
No, it's hideously dumb. You're hurting your point and making it more complex than it needs to be.
keen brook
And he's 7 foot
stoic hamlet
@meager torrent he’s 7’2” in armour
meager torrent
How much does he weigh
versed helm
The idea that Atriox could just be taken out by a single shot to the head is the real rub here.
modest marsh
I didn’t say single
keen brook
No I'm not I'm saying it's a possibility. Besides
versed helm
If he could be, he wouldn't have just stood there. Simple as that.
stoic hamlet
But why wouldn’t Alice at least try?
versed helm
Because that'd probably incite him to finish the job.
stoic hamlet
You’re equating him not being able to be felled by a headshot to Alice knowing that.
versed helm
The conclusion of that fight was, if anything, an understanding.
stoic hamlet
But that doesn’t make sense
modest marsh
Can you provide an example of a Brute not being at least stunned by being shot in the head
versed helm
I'm bigger than you, I'm better than you, you can't hurt me - but you can run.
stoic hamlet
She’s fought Brutes before
modest marsh
What’s the risk
keen brook
He kicked their butts
stoic hamlet
Okay, and?
modest marsh
What’s she risking
keen brook
And they can take a whole clip
modest marsh
Says who
versed helm
The shots didn't kill him, he closes the distance, Douglas at minimum dies.
keen brook
Says everything
versed helm
That's the risk.
stoic hamlet
We have plenty of examples of that not being the case
keen brook
That the bullets wouldn't kill him with a head shot
stoic hamlet
Last Light comes to mind
Mark and Fred were dropping Brutes in power armour without using entire magazines.
If your counter to that is they’re good marksman that doesn’t dispute the fact Brutes were dropping without expending large round counts for each.
And they were also using BR55’s for those engagements
versed helm
So your entire point hinges on the fact that they should have tried to shoot him - potentially causing him to retract his temporary mercy - because battle rifles have been known to take out brute power armour in the past.
Despite the fact that Atriox doesn't seem to be wearing traditional power armour.
keen brook
Ok. In the story describing the operation where blue team was on a mission to destroy that whole covenant fleet, they came across a brute on the ship they were on. They unloaded whole clips
Didn't kill.
stoic hamlet
He’s unshielded and unarmoured on his head.
keen brook
Before said brute almost choked out John
versed helm
I don't buy that he's unshielded, given the precedents Blur has set.
stoic hamlet
I’ll need to double check that @keen brook because IIRC he tackled John before he could fire
versed helm
The only time Blur has bothered to depict energy shields functioning in away we can observe is when they were recreating Halo 2 cutscenes.
keen brook
Yeah he did
stoic hamlet
He had armour yes but nothing covering his head.
keen brook
But blue team unloaded a clip
stoic hamlet
Blue team wasn’t with him
stoic hamlet
Grace was and she was killed
keen brook
Blue team, Grace and Johnson
versed helm
Christ Dangai, could you chill
stoic hamlet
Johnson wasn’t there
keen brook
I am chill
versed helm
Eternal, here's the thought process:
This brute just knocked the ever-loving-stuffing out of us - clearly a deadly combatant. He's standing in the open taunting us, knowing that we have guns, despite not wearing a helmet. Therefore, he is confident that we can't kill him at this time. Therefore, there is no reason for us to risk getting Douglas and possibly ourselves killed by showing defiance.
We can extrapolate that he likely has energy shields or some other as-yet unseen mechanism protecting his head just simply based on his confidence.
And that's what the Spartans did. I think that simple logic works, and having to reason that out doesn't detract from the drama or entertainment of the scene.
As I'm very fond of saying, Spartans are a helluva lot smarter than you.
And that includes me, of course.
keen brook
Was about to say
_>
So we dunno what they were thinking
But
That fact alone isn't enough to justify the claim that they were nerfed
Atriox mopped the floor with Red
And if they did anything else I think it wouldn't matter.
Atriox knocked them away like flies and could tank bullets, a knife and probably punches from spartans
He was fast enough
And a lot bigger.
stoic hamlet
I have the book in front of me, @keen brook Johnson remained with the Gettysburg.
You were right, Blue Team were with John, they did fire, but it’s mentioned the brute staggered with every impact and we don’t know if he had power armour. As the fleet was Truth’s secret one I think he might have.
But anyways, I still find the fight overall poorly choreographed once you actually watch it.
versed helm
I think Halo Wars 2's limited cutscene depictions of Spartans in combat are amongst the better examples we've seen.
Certainly better than mainline series gameplay, to be honest.
keen brook
Well I know he was involved in the operation. I didn't remember the details greatly it's been a while.
But either way he tanked them and from other sources they can do so without armor.
versed helm
I think that's Halo's biggest crime, personally, and it always has been ever since the Bungie era. Punching should have a much stronger physics effect, and movement should be just a smidgen faster.
Halo's games don't need to draw from the extended universe to an extent that it bewilders casual fans, but they'd be a lot better if they respected it more.
keen brook
As in gameplay?
versed helm
Basically.
versed helm
As it stands, playing Halo - despite the awesome weapon sandbox, levels, art and enemies - is just playing as a kinda generic dude.
keen brook
But yeah. It was just for gameplay
meager torrent
Cortana should not be alive in halo 5
versed helm
Like, you can take a beating, and you've got guns you can shoot.
stoic hamlet
I don’t even think it needs to be that as much as just Spartans need to move differently and act differently.
Despite my issues with the fight my favourite scene is actually them walking away, not because of why but how they’re doing it: Jerome is dragging Douglas, he’s obviously slow, but beside him Alice is basically jogging backwards without breaking stride or any signs of looking behind her because she knows Jerome is guiding them. All the while she’s aiming down the corridor ready to engage anything that comes after them, and she does, just not Atriox, which is my problem.
meager torrent
frick
keen brook
Fack
versed helm
But Spartans are much, muuuuuch more than that. And seeing Jerome smack an elite across the lift room in Action/Reaction reminded me of that.
keen brook
He was badass there
meager torrent
Spartans eat their beans everyday, hence why they are so strong
keen brook
A mother fluffing badass
versed helm
Plus, how cool would it be if you could create space in-game by knocking enemies the hell back
stoic hamlet
That scene and the brief glimpse of Kat running in deliver hope are great showcases of how Spartans actually move/their speed.
(Speaking specifically about that one shot of the army troopers legs and then we see Kat just beating them even when they’re at full sprint.
versed helm
They didn't need to turn Spartans into demi-iron men to show their capabilities. That's what miffs me the hardest, though.
versed helm
They couldn't think of basic physics interactions to differentiate Spartans, so they just made them fwoosh everywhere.
modest marsh
Remember that time Cmdr Keyes held off two fully armored Brute Chieftains with a pump action shotgun in one hand and a pistol in the other
And I disagree
stoic hamlet
Spartans should move very mechanically IMO, every action deliberate, every action planned
versed helm
I mean, those brutes weren't exactly rushing her. For obvious reasons.
stoic hamlet
Oh I know
versed helm
The whole point of that scene was that, as heroic as it looked, it was kinda pointless and desperate and dumb.
versed helm
Though it may have bought just enough time.
keen brook
Hey
versed helm
Butterfly effect, I guess.
modest marsh
If one cutscene can be dumb....
versed helm
Screw that.
keen brook
To be fair
versed helm
Yikes.
stoic hamlet
Ehhh yeah
modest marsh
Chief vs Locke is less illogical, it’s just executed poorly
stoic hamlet
^^
versed helm
343 getting too wrapped up in their mocap tech, tbh.
keen brook
At first I thought it was cool cause i never thought about the choreography
stoic hamlet
It should have been faster, sped up
keen brook
Then I looked back and I was like "ewwww"
stoic hamlet
But because it was mo-capped it wasn’t really able to be. But what actually happens isn’t that bad
versed helm
I mean a Spartan punching another Spartan should probably impart a lot of momentum into them.
versed helm
Unless they were really pulling their punches.
stoic hamlet
John definitely was
keen brook
I dunno if they were, their armor probably took the impact
gilded mason
Unless they were really pulling their punches.
Until Locke decided to pull out his gun to try to shoot John.
versed helm
I hate this bot so much.
modest marsh
What loot is saying is that the fight lacks reasonable kinetics
keen brook
Lacks
versed helm
Exactly, Magg. Thanks.
stoic hamlet
Yeah, but so does a lot of Halo’s stuff, annoyingly
versed helm
YES
modest marsh
Earlier in the game does Tanaka smash apart a large boulder
versed helm
That's why I say look to the EU to respect what Spartans - and the universe - should be, not to tell your stories.
modest marsh
Which means she’s colliding with more force than a moving vehicle
stoic hamlet
Could you elaborate on what you mean by that @versed helm ?
modest marsh
A half ton Spartan should experience some amount of displacement
gilded mason
Man, that cutscene.
versed helm
Well, one of the things the books have always done for Halo and have benefitted more than even their story beats is, I think, they tone they've imparted.
My idea of Spartans and their capabilities comes thoroughly from TFoR's descriptions of Chief's abilities.
stoic hamlet
Oh yeah, I get you now. Yeah there’s a massive disconnect between game and books
versed helm
And the books get it right, is what I'm saying.
The books are literally leagues better.
keen brook
Yeah the game is different for a reason though. It's gameplay
If the game was totally realistic
To spartans
Everything would be way too easy
versed helm
It's poor gameplay. Halo's gameplay is absolutely a blast, and always will be, but there's not much to differentiate it.
Besides the aiming, I guess.
stoic hamlet
Ehh not really, it’s be a different form of gameplay
keen brook
And you might as well read a book to get the story
versed helm
It's a poor aspect of an awesome gameplay loop, is what I mean.
stoic hamlet
But not easy
keen brook
Everything would be slow, you could punch a person to death in one blow
stoic hamlet
If it was lore accurate plasma would be absurdly powerful
keen brook
They do it for gameplay
versed helm
Imagine how much more fun Halo would be simply if whenever you punched an enemy they flew backwards. You can experience that with a Skull in Halo 2.
It's a little janky, but it's awesome fun.
stoic hamlet
One shot and that’s it, whereas human weapons (against other Spartans) would do literally nothing
versed helm
Kinetic interactions, man. Emphasise strength and speed.
stoic hamlet
Mhm
modest marsh
They could add a bullet time mechanic to reflect the Spartans’ reflexes
versed helm
Bring powerups back! Good way to show Spartans really cutting loose.
modest marsh
But
Eh
That sounds like a huge undertaking to implement organically into the halo sandbox
versed helm
Well, I lied - I think that skull only imparts physics to corpses on killing strikes.
Feather, or something it's called?
modest marsh
I think one decreases object mass, the other increases acceleration
versed helm
And ultimately, thrusters give nothing but a more fundamentally dishonest take on Spartan capabilities.
Spartans don't need thrusters to kick butt.
Well, dishonest is a strong word.
Different, and in my eyes, unnecessary.
modest marsh
Well, I do like the notion that they can augment their natural acrobatic abilities by “nudging” themselves through the air
Actual flight is where I draw the line
versed helm
It was more falling with style, to be absolutely fair
modest marsh
And obviously, their presence opens up a lot in terms of traversal methods in less than ideal terrain, such as underwater or in space
Linda seems to be capable of full flight for whatever reason
stoic hamlet
That’s an annoying thing to me
I don’t like the concept of thrusters at least during the war
modest marsh
Specifically Linda mind you
versed helm
Is this a Lone Wolf thing?
stoic hamlet
Have them be T-packs like in Ghosts and TFoR
modest marsh
On The Brink as well
Her vertical movement is seemingly emphasized
I’m fine with thrusters, what I take issue with is flippant misuse of them that aren’t well explained
I think Hunters in the Dark set a reasonable precedent
Obviously, nonstandard configurations would be more suited for extended flight (namely those that are augmented by a dedicated jet pack) but it’s not like Linda’s ARGUS-class MJOLNIR is designed with that in mind so it’s odd that the comics keep pushing her into that area without making an effort to acknowledge it somehow
stoic hamlet
because it means Kurt and James's fates can't work if they have integrated thrusters.
James especially as his pack malfunctioned due to a stray round
modest marsh
Not all suits necessarily were equipped with integrated thrusters
stoic hamlet
but that's what i mean
modest marsh
And the same could be said of integrated systems as well
stoic hamlet
if not all suits had them why didn't John/Kurt ensure all members on their respective missions were using them?
SPartans don't care about individuality, they don't seem to really customize their suits to the extent another couldn't use the armour.
modest marsh
The “release” version of the Mark V issued to the Spartans likely had other priorities in mind
They have variants
Kurt was wearing a dedicated EVA suit if I remember right
versed helm
If they were only a postwar thing, they could've been explained as being made possibly by maybe GEN 2 advances in energy management. Or fuel storage. Or something.
stoic hamlet
I know, but seemingly post 2531 not tailored specifically to them. (Which i'm not a fan of anyways, the tailored variants)
he was wearing MJOLNIR with a thrustpack attached.
like Fred and Kelly
modest marsh
Yeah?
versed helm
I mean, MJOLNIR armour's development history is just getting a bit silly as-is anyway.
stoic hamlet
auto fill in typo :p
modest marsh
I don’t see how that necessarily conflicts with other suit models experimenting with integrated thrusters
versed helm
I just headcanon what suits me and leave trying to categorize all the excuses to those who really want to adhere to the letter of canon.
For example, Chief's armour on 04 looked like it did on that Legendary Crate.
I think they probably need to wipe the slate clean on the Mark V/thruster pack situations and just start again with a clean set of specifications, even if the visual integrity of some sources is ignored.
It's basically rude to expect your audience to handle as much contrivance as we've been getting.
modest marsh
Correct me if I’m wrong but the only substantive evidence suggesting mainline GEN1 armor had internal thrusters is the fact Chief had them in Halo 4 for all of one cutscene and a trailer
versed helm
Something Has Happened, as well.
modest marsh
Ah?
versed helm
Plus wasn't it in the TFoR animation?
modest marsh
I don’t consider that canon
versed helm
Well Jerome thrusters around during Something Has Happened.
While he's still in is old Mark IV, obviously.
stoic hamlet
neither do I, and seemingly neither do 343, atleast if Silent Storm is canon.
IIRC Linda's unique variant in Collateral Damage had them.
(which bugs me that they have unique variants so soon after Chi-Cheti but weren't wearing them for the boarding op.
versed helm
Maaaannn, what is it with Linda and the power of flight.
stoic hamlet
It bugs me more than you realize, lol
versed helm
But the point is, having wartime MJOLNIR-integrated thrusters (that aren't something very specialized and unique, like those pauldron jet/spoke things from Reach) does cause far too much contrivance.
I always say real life has a tendency to be more contrived than fiction, and that's fair enough when we're talking pure technical lore
But when retroactive contrivances begin to surround character deaths, it's best to be careful
modest marsh
Linda’s thrusters were designed for short range atmospheric traversal, not EVA
I forgot about Jerome’s thrusters honestly
versed helm
But heck if I know. Certain story elements of First Strike, The Flood and probably TFoR are "less-than-canon" these days as well.
Maybe that now extends to Ghosts of Onyx.
modest marsh
Thrusters are fine as long as their limitations and application are fair and sensible
fair hazel
Looks like I might need to come in. So I should read up on the conversation
modest marsh
I don’t think it’s setting breaking for a suit here and there to have an emergency maneuvering system
Which, to me, is how they should be treated
stoic hamlet
speaking of less than canon elements, what're people's thoughts on the fact Ghosts of Onyx essentially has Beta not start training for two years post Alpha's demise so they can add 43 kids to their company?
modest marsh
A nice parallel to Cortana’s fancy moves with the Pillar of Autumn
stoic hamlet
does that make sense to anyone?
or does it seems kind of odd to anyone else?
(sorry to change the subject, lol, wanted to be more prompt but i was too slow)
versed helm
I haven't read GoO in waaaayyy too long to have this discussion, so I must bow out.
modest marsh
The specifics of the dates are a little weird and if I remember right, Owen-B096 has an odd age if my math is right
fair hazel
Thrusters have been seen used in jetpack like ways, however I'm sure it does tax the thruster system to use them that way. and based on Collateral Damage, linda has experience which such systems that would allow her to operate her suit based thrusters to their limits.
modest marsh
Right but her limits are explicitly higher than everyone else’s
See
Hunters in the Dark
Or when Buck fails to clear a jump
stoic hamlet
Basically @versed helm when Kurt hears about ALpha's demise in 2537 he mentions they have 375 candidates ready, but as Lucy began training at 6, two years later, it essentially means Kurt was more or less twiddling his thumbs for two years despite Paranosky mentioning she wanted Beta;s training accelerated.
so i jst find it odd.
stoic hamlet
the only way I can reconcile it is if they started training in 2537 but added recruits as they went along, maybe
yeah thats what happened as far as I can tell
or they change Lucy's training age to 4 instead of 6
IIRC Owen's age isn't known @modest marsh one of the kids thinks he's older than her but he never actually says his age, and we know Spartan III's are often assumed to be older than they actually are.
stoic hamlet
here's his page.
Halopedia seems to take Saskia's thoughts as confirmation, for some reason.
but that's all they are, her internal thoughts.
From a comment made at the end of the book by an ONI agent i think it's safe to say he's definitely younger than 18.
probably 16 at the oldest, IMO.
autumn urchin
Is halo legends canon
modest marsh
Yes though there are questionable elements
gilded mason
Overall events, but not visuals.
carmine sleet
Odd One Out isn't canon
gilded mason
And Odd One Out is totally non-canon
modest marsh
I don’t like that particular sentiment
gilded mason
Which one?
modest marsh
Several visual elements are explicitly canon
Not everything but I think it’s misleading to say what it looks like doesn’t count when a lot of stuff is directly inspired by or iterated upon the visuals of Halo Legends
The Mark I suit got its appearance from that which is decidedly canon
gilded mason
Ah.
carmine sleet
When did Mjolnir Mark I appear in Legends?
modest marsh
The prototype suit is a modified Mark I exoskeleton
carmine sleet
That I did not know
fair hazel
thats not MJOLNR
fair hazel
HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark I ADS
gaunt karma
ye
fair hazel
Try saying it out loud
modest marsh
No one said it was MJOLNIR?
Oh wait he did lol nvm
It’s an easy mistake to make considering MJOLNIR started with Mark IV similar to how Spartans “started” with the ORIONs
In a sense you might say that would’ve retroactively made them MJOLNIR too if not for the very specific meaning behind the name
stoic hamlet
MJOLNIR was retroactively named Mark IV.
gaunt karma
it's not that hard to say it, it would more be figuring it out rather than saying it
which I just looked up, I figured correctly, so I'm good on my pronunciation
feral perch
Mee-Yole-Nar; Muh-Yule-Near
stoic hamlet
^
subtle depot
The worst is when people say it “mal-nar”
candid plinth
versed helm
It's not that hard, guys. Her-unt-ing, Eeg-dra-sil.
radiant sphinx
What about Gungnir? I've heard Gung-near and gun-jin-eer. Don't know which is proper, but I honestly prefer the second.
versed helm
are there any lgbt characters in halo?
i'm trying to think of one and i genuinely can't
autumn urchin
probably what does it matter
versed helm
after some googling i only found two
remote spruce
there are dead ones
versed helm
why is that censored??
modest marsh
It’s used as a profanity
versed helm
every word in lgbt started off as an insult and was reclaimed
anyways
i guess halo isn't immune to the bury your lgbt trope
then again 90% of halo characters are dead
modest marsh
Oh geeze
remote spruce
343i generally doesn't delve into these things, the most you see is political shenanigans almost relating to real life events.
versed helm
transgender?
modest marsh
That’s pretty stringent
modest marsh
Random covenant soldiers seem to develop male-male relationships if in game dialogue is any indication
versed helm
yea wasn't there an elite who was attracted to the arbiter in halo 5 after seeing his scar
modest marsh
Though, those instances are obviously for comedic purposes rather than serious narrative
remote spruce
That's more in a joking manner though. I guess it counts.
modest marsh
I mean
remote spruce
RIP all those Brute lovers
modest marsh
Let’s be frank
Humans are bizarrely unique in stigmatizing same gender relationships among intelligent animals
Those same stigmas likely don’t persist with the resident species of the Covenant
Dang it
This is really crummy
versed helm
yea
honestly seeing how the covenant and forerunners handled relationships that aren’t straight would be cool
and i’d like to see a trans person or two just because there’s like no representation
even if they were just an elite or something
modest marsh
Well in the case of the covenant it would seem rather logical that they’d develop close bonds with their fellow soldiers when isolated from the civilian population for extended periods
remote spruce
How would that work with Elites though?
versed helm
Jesus
Wait a second
Well that's a little damning
elites have dimorphism and the concept of gender
you can’t say the “L” or “G” in LGBT
Bi
remote spruce
careful y'all, i think the bot gets suspicious if there's too many removals and starts auto muting
versed helm
:T
Basically, yeah. My understanding on how humanity is likely to end up is that those particular group dynamics become forgotten about, and who people do certain things with other people are exerting basic rights rather than falling into social categories.
If that's in any way understandable.
yea but there’s no real examples of that
remote spruce
wait where did my commen-Argh
versed helm
So while few characters are explicitly stated as being into the same gender, the fact that few are confirmed to be straight is a pretty big point of leighway in a 26th century setting.
In a way, not discussing it constantly would be evidence of the maturity of those in the Halo universe, and all that we would need is an out-of-universe confirmation
Which nobody has really asked for
remote spruce
(males/females can serve in the UNSC with no issue was what i said earlier before removal)
For Elites they restrict much of the military from females and have we even heard of a female Brute (The MMO doesn't count lol)
versed helm
still, representation in the context of halo being fictional and a form of media gives us the opportunity to at least acknowledge the fact that those people exist in the halo universe
I would argue that Elites are the way they are because they retain effectively medieval cultural norms, and that during our medieval period it was probably of actual import that women be kept safer than males.
But humans have become less animalistic since then, and our ability to define ourselves is what defines us. So that's why our mentality evolved.
remote spruce
In Dirt, with those 2 dead characters, their _ is mentioned in a nonchalant way and pretty much passed off as normal
versed helm
Meanwhile, the Elites were stuck in the cultural stagnation machine that was the Covenant.
i’m aware, all i’m saying is i wish there were more characters that are explicitly stated to be lgbtq
remote spruce
their deaths are more "well everyone died" rather than a trope of killing off lgbt characters (which i didn't know was a trope until now)
versed helm
I wish more characters were stated to have same-gender relationships.
I'd be a little disheartened if they were specified as belonging to specific groups.
why?
those are identities not just groups
remote spruce
Someone argued that Mickey had romantic feelings towards that innie guy that got killed when attacking Jun. I almost see it but it's not concrete.
versed helm
that’s more speculation than anything
later i’m gonna listen to the clip of that one elite talking about the arbiter to see if he actually was attracted to him
I personally feel there's little to distinguish an identity from a group. As soon as someone locks themselves into an identity, they begin seeking an in-group and creating an out-group.
remote spruce
I thought that Elite was looking at Arby as a role model.
versed helm
Holding an identity implies you're not being entirely true to yourself, either, or forcing yourself into a mould.
Just be who you're compelled to be, and don't worry about facing self-contradiction if you ever feel the need to change.
feral perch
I believe this would get in the way of good storytelling. Halo isn't a soap opera, and the fewer romantic relationships, and especially relationships that would be statements on social or political topics of our day, the better.
versed helm
how would someone being lgbt get in the way of good storytelling
Identities lead to groups which lead to confrontation - confrontations which are some people's faults more than others, I won't deny it - but confrontations that might be nullified.
I also feel that a lot of distinct social groups are created by those that want to diminish them or see them as different, even if they end up getting appropriated by the constituents of that group themselves, and ultimately have a dehumanizing effect.
feral perch
Having watched shows such as Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl, there's a real danger that social preaching could distract from actually important things to the plot
remote spruce
I don't think it impedes that much, but I see why 343i leaves it blank a lot of the times. I think 343i leaves too many things blank at times regarding lore details like Spartan IV numbers : (
feral perch
But I think we also probably have fundamentally different worldviews, and I'm not going to start an argument here.
versed helm
The fewer clear barriers that exist between human beings, the better.
you can just say you don’t want them to say that person is lgbt
Providing, of course, healthy, open and polite communication can always occur.
anyways halo has romance in it, like every other piece of halo media has a romantic relationship of some kind
remote spruce
seems like 343i is alluding to more of economic barriers for humans, with planets like Aleria existing and the whole inner vs outer colony
feral perch
I don't much care for romance in sci-fi.
versed helm
I think romance in its limited capacity is quite important to Halo.
well you can say that without saying you don’t want halo to be political
Halo's about humanity, in a lot of ways, and love is one of the things that defines us.
feral perch
I think different types of love, such as brotherly or otherwise platonic love, is more important
versed helm
art by nature has meaning and all meaning is political in some way
It's all part of the umbrella of human experience. But I think the presence of those sorts of love is why Halo's generally fairly light on romance.
Sorry if I'm being a little outspoken here, but dis is my jam.
halo isn’t really light on romance though, it’s not a romance story by nature but romance definitely has it’s place in the halo universe
remote spruce
Humans in Halo love lobsters
Grunts in Halo are described as crustacean like
hmm
feral perch
I would like to see Grunts being eaten
versed helm
I mean, this is subjective. We've all read a lot of Halo media, and focused in differently.
most of the forerunner lore we have relates to the librarian and the didact and their relationship
feral perch
That is true, though I have not read the Forerunner trilogy
versed helm
I would argue that's a little reductive of Forerunner lore.
Which is quite expansive. Also, the Didact and Bornstellar spend an awful lot of time hanging around nude in Cryptum xD
feral perch
Are they Greek Olympians in disguise?
versed helm
If you consider mutating an Olympic sport.
feral perch
The Forerunners were so screwed up
versed helm
not really, their story was what really acted as the main vehicle for forerunner lore for a few years
they were messed up on a fundamental level but not because they liked to hang out nude
feral perch
thanks for pointing that out, of course I was being totally serious
versed helm
I think you could make that argument for about half - and it's ludicrous trying to put portions on this - of Forerunner story elements.
Considering the origins of the Halo array and many of the important events of the Forerunner/Flood war here.
versed helm
I understood that xD
The Forerunner trilogy is, I'm discovering, much better listened to than read.
It's easier to digest if you're rammed through it instead of trying to focus. Or at least, that's my experience.
Hearing a lot of things I didn't pick up on in reading.
north stump
What would happen if, by a miracle of miracles, or lack of, a Guardian were destroyed? It may be entirely impossible, but if it did happen, what would be the consequence?
gilded mason
but if it did happen, what would be the consequence?
It'd be scrap?
north stump
As in, would it produce an explosion, or would it compose, like the Promethean Knights, or what else would happen?
versed helm
One got disabled in Legacy of Onyx, I think. But for the life of me I suddenly cannot remember exactly how that played out.
north stump
@versed helm Mmk. Thank you. By that answer, I'm going to assume there's not much detail in what happens?
versed helm
Just that my memory's bad. Here, I'll check for ya.
north stump
@versed helm Thank you very much.
feral perch
It fell to the ground and was disassembled by the impact. No explosion or orange glowy action, but the floaty bits had nothing to hold them together, so they literally fell apart from eachother.
versed helm
Yeah, can confirm
north stump
@versed helm @feral perch Thanks.
feral perch
no problem
versed helm
The falling components were extremely heavy, not that that's a surprise, and resulted in some serious dust clouds.
north stump
K
feral perch
I wonder. If the Didact's ship was destroyed by a nuke, what about the Forerunner Dreadnought? Could it withstand such an explosion?
I don't know why I said impact, lol
versed helm
I've heard people say that the Mantle's Approach wasn't destroyed, but simply damaged and pulled into slipspace
Just putting that out there
feral perch
Hm. I heard remnants found their way to Genesis, but that seems like it was destroyed, just not disintegrated.
versed helm
I read that the Ur-Didact and the Librarian first met on Charum Hakkor prior to the Human-Forerunner wars...i do wonder..did the Humans and Forerunners have some sort of peaceful coexistence prior to the wars
Or better yet..how were they on Charum Hakkor prior to the wars
Anyone?
dreamy tulip
Did they have a kid
versed helm
I know that all of their children died in the Human-Forerunner wars
fair hazel
the core of the ship is alive
shrewd trout
they had 12
past tense
versed helm
Yeah..but how were on Charum Hakkor before the war with Ancient Humanity
quartz willow
Hmmm great question
keen brook
It is possible that there was some minor interactions between the humans and the forerunners. It's not impossible by any means, though if they did it would be really small. Otherwise things would probably be different
As in I imagine if there was more interaction between the two species before the war, there could probably be better relationships between them. More connections. In that case the forerunners probably wouldn't have saw humanities attacks on their world as anything other than the extermination of the flood.
They probably wouldn't have won against the flood though even working together but yeah. On the charum hakor thing
I'll go back and see what happened exactly with that stuff.
versed helm
A dreadnought can probably withstand a Nuke
feral perch
The Keyship was constructed differently, for what it's worth
fair hazel
? They can definitely withstand nukes
humble yacht
they withstood MAC rounds from some frigates but a HAVOK? that tore the Mantle's Approach apart
from the inside, sure, but still
you're telling me a keyship could survive a nuke going off inside it?
feral perch
In Halo: Warfleet, it's stated that in the case of the Anodyne Spirit, the usual customizability and modular function of Forerunner vessels was sacrificed for structural strength and unity of purpose. With that said, I don't think it's beyond the Forerunners to have built something that could withstand a nuke.
humble yacht
I mean, from the outside, maybe any Forerunner ship could withstand a nuke
But only example we have of a nuke being used was from the inside
feral perch
I would like to have played a level inside the Keyship, like in Halo: Uprising
That would've been a lot of fun.
fair hazel
In a very specific location.
humble yacht
still. It's not like we have an example of a nuke failing to destroy a Forerunner ship
versed helm
I mean, as far as I knew, the Mantle's Approach wasn't destroyed. It was just severely damaged and yanked into slipspace.
"During the HAVOK nuke's detonation, self-preservation protocols shunted the core seed of Mantle's Approach, including the remnants of Cortana's personality matrix, via emergency slipspace jump, to the nearest repair facility on record, Genesis." From Halopedia. They source Warfleet, Catalog and Halo 5 itself.
humble yacht
But how much of the ship is the "core seed"?
versed helm
And some other bits ended up over Installation 03 - the bits with the Didact, evidently. So it would seem that emergency protocols slipspaced the bulk of the ship one direction, the Didact somehow (probably of his own volition) ended up elsewhere.
humble yacht
afaik we don't see debris of Mantle's Approach on Genesis
versed helm
I mean, hard to know. Probably more than less, if you're dubious about a nuke's ability to harm a Forerunner ship.
Well, Genesis is a big place...
humble yacht
I'm not saying it couldn't have been there, I'm saying that we didn't see it so we have no proof
modest marsh
A HAVOK only has a yield of 30 megatons
versed helm
But another point. The reason nukes are powerful inside ships with energy shielding, as I understand it, is because of similar reasons NOVA bombs are powerful in the first place.
humble yacht
We can conjecture all day but as it stands there is nothing that says a HAVOK wouldn't have destroyed a Keyship or Dreadnaught like it did Mantle's Approach
versed helm
The blast is momentarily contained and focused inwards, which dramatically increases the amount of energy - iirc, that was rationalized in TFoR, though maybe I'm pulling this out of thin air.
modest marsh
The amount of pressure exerted by a given point would be less than the impact of MAC round which hits with kilotons of force
Grenade vs sniper bullet
humble yacht
Megaton > kiloton
modest marsh
Okay but
Those kilotons are spread over a distance of what, a few meters?
A nuke is spread over a distance of kilometers
humble yacht
a nuclear explosions starts from the area of a warhead and spreads out
that 30 megatons of force will hit hardest at the site of explosion
modest marsh
Hit hardest, but not all of its energy is being displaced as efficiently as a hypervelocity penetrator
humble yacht
the shockwave that is produced that spreads the affected area is because the initial impact is so large
yeah but when the amount of energy is >3 orders of magnitude higher, it can afford to not be as "efficient"
modest marsh
Alright well ignoring whatever rationalizing you may make, we know Mantle’s Approach withstood the Infinity’s MAC which hits with gigatons
versed helm
Its energy shields did.
gilded mason
the impact of MAC round which hits with kilotons of force
Where was that said? I had been trying to look for MAC's power for a while.
versed helm
Super MACs do, I think. They're something like 5% light speed or something crazy like that.
versed helm
Well that'd be maximum power, too.
Which would probably burn out the weapon for several minutes.
fair hazel
The nuke was detonated right in front of an active composer
modest marsh
Heavier ships, especially newer ones would be stronger
gaunt karma
Super MACs go at 12,000km/s
fair hazel
Beware of the encyclopedia numbers
gaunt karma
ye
versed helm
Oh, and it's also worth noting that while a Forerunner ship's outer hull is potentially made of all kinds of crazy protective substances, the inner portions of most Forerunner ships are reconfigurable hard-light surfaces.
One can assume it goes fairly unspoken that Cortana was in something of a constant, diligent battle to prevent internal countermeasures from swatting the Chief, which I can believe since the Mantle's Approach ought to have been crewed by thousands and seemed to lack a powerful tactical ancilla (probably by the machinations of the Librarian).
But given that, it's easy to see an internal nuclear detonation causing a fairly catastrophic degree of damage to area it went off in, which was obviously an important one.
meager torrent
I wonder what happened to the turtles of Old Mombasa
versed helm
With the blast being contained and focused by the outer hull as it wreaks havok on the insides.
modest marsh
Even ignoring encyclopedia stuff, there’s statements that put high-level UNSC, Covenant, and Forerunner naval units at continental levels
versed helm
Ah, now I get what you're saying.
Chief should have fired off a MAC inside the Mantle's Approach.
Makes perfect sense.
modest marsh
That’s not what I said
versed helm
Well, it's the only practical application of what you're saying.
modest marsh
No