Is there a lore reason Jackals aren't in HW2
#lore-and-universe
terse gale
carmine sleet
The Banished just happened not to recruit any
Like, I wish they did have some so we could've had a Jackal leader but that's really just a minor nitpick of mine
Although, if I am wrong about them not having any, someone please correct me
obsidian thistle
It is possible they are on the Ark. Grim kept the possibility open by saying they manage to get anywhere where profit may be made.
But they aint in the Banished.
gilded mason
Huh, wonder why he didn't just go with "Yes, but we just didn't see them."
terse gale
I miss my Jackal infantry from the first game π’
obsidian thistle
*FYI there is Banished Kig-Yar Mega Construx mini-figs. But that be a rare case of Mega not being canon. (Something that is rarer than most folks realise)
ashen wharf
@unique rune @quartz willow in halo 2 there were super sentinels looked just like normal one except tinted gold stronger blue covered energy beam and energy shields.
humble yacht
Not sure if those are the "super sentinels" they were referring to
humble yacht
I know
unique rune
I swear I've heard them referred to as Aggressor Sentinel "Officers" or something like that but I've no idea where that name would come from...
humble yacht
I think they're referring to something else
ashen wharf
Ok
humble yacht
Something from the books
unique rune
But yeah, I know those exist.
ashen wharf
Ok
quartz willow
So does anyone else know what I was talking about its not those gold one it was supposed to he a boss on quarantine zone
I believe I cant find the video anymore cause YouTube sometimes purges older videos on bug accounts
versed helm
I wonder..how large was the Covenant's sphere of influence prior to the Great Schism?..did they control territories outside the Orion Arm?
obsidian thistle
Oh the "Gold" Sentinels dont have a name. XD Seems 343i forgot about them.
humble yacht
Sentinel Plus
obsidian thistle
When I asked about it during a stream it was kinda a we have no idea sorta deal
humble yacht
Sentinel Especiale
carmine sleet
I've heard people call them Sentinel Majors before. Obviously that wouldn't be an official name but it's what I've used to talk about the gold Sentinels in the past
obsidian thistle
TBF those Sentinels are forgetable.
Their beam is not in H2 MP (oh something we can totes ask the MCC team to consider if able) and their H2A version like is hard to tell apart from the normal one.
(Even the Gold Sentinel Beam weapon model in H2A is silver like the normal Sentinel beam, unlike the H2 model which was Gold)
The TLDR is no one loves the Bling Sentinels.
carmine sleet
It's a shame really. Like, it could be a cool way to expand on the lore of sentinels if they dove into why the gold ones exist
humble yacht
obviously those sentinels get paid more so they can afford the gilded chassis
carmine sleet
Is it bad that I kinda want to see a sentinel running a shop that sells different sentinel chassises now
versed helm
I'd call it neutral yet amusing.
feral perch
I love the golden Sentinels : (
humble yacht
Sentinel-dashians
obsidian thistle
In a Parallel universe the Halo MMO got past early builds and there is a merchant Sentinel who sells chassises for the modular companion Sentinel.
keen brook
@versed helm it was a lot more than humanity. I'm sure there's a map detailing it
versed helm
I still like to know the precise location of the System of Miasmic Giants
keen brook
versed helm
I know it did say that it was located on the far side of the galaxy relative to Creck
Terminal Seven in H2A confuses me
Especially the scene where it showed the Sangheili fighting some unseen enemy...the question is..who were they fighting?
obsidian thistle
Heretics? Mystery aliens?
versed helm
shrugs
vivid dust
Banished?
obsidian thistle
Banished were far later
vivid dust
oh it's from older times
keen brook
Atriox was around during the war
Though
It's probably not the banished
If they're unseen
It could be flood, could be fighting someone cloaked
Could've been from the heretic group
obsidian thistle
Well it could be the Flood. The Covies were quite good at holding them back. As proven by them holding out against them for a few years at that Shield World that was ultimately destroyed in Halo Wars.
strong sage
Post war unsc full strength vs Banished how it will turn out in all out war?
gilded mason
Banished is pretty small, so I'm going with full-strength post-war UNSC
strong sage
Eh really? I though they were that big as seeing covenant are having a hard time with em fam o.o
gilded mason
Because the Banished basically only did ht and run tactics. Hit a supply depot and then scurry away.
strong sage
Ahhhhhhh that kinda make senses
versed helm
I mean it'd be like
UNSC In-finity (darn bot) rocks up
Atriox flashbacks to how much trouble three Spartans and an outdated fleet support ship have given him
Hundreds of Spartans deploy all across the Ark
heavy linden
Three Spartans with patchwork old and new Mjolnir(they still canonically had MkIV without shields before arriving at the Ark(shields in gameplay was for gameplay))
serene bluff
quartz willow
Especially since in Retribution Serin Osman And ONI are already keeping tabs on locations of banished foaltilas
versed helm
what's up fellers
versed helm
Lol, just went to a bookstore by me and got my first halo book, figured I'd find a discord to discuss lore and whatnot
Only recently started getting into halo lore
quartz willow
What book was it
versed helm
Fall of Reach by Eric Nylund
quartz willow
I havent read it I dont have it but I heard it is a great book so hopefully you enjoy it
hardy goblet
A classic π
quartz willow
Yes
gloomy condor
so are Ghosts of onyx and first strike
versed helm
itβs also a movie
quartz willow
Wat
cerulean sand
is it me or did Cortana have nose surgery in odd one out
versed helm
She may have
sturdy turtle
yo this is gonna sound random but i heard that chief and arbiter have a bbq can anyone fact check this?
carmine sleet
Halo Bad Blood, Arbiter and his Elites had one with Blue Team and Osiris just after they arrived on Sanghelios post Halo 5
sturdy turtle
that is awesome
last anchor
Why is the name of the UNSC's flagship blocked? Is it cause it sounds like the title of the next Halo game?
Ah whatever
stoic shale
I need to get Bad Blood. It seems really interesting.
vague scroll
@last anchor due to a certain film, its temporarily blocked
last anchor
Oh.
Acceptable
Lets just call it the INF-001
Only true Halo nerds know her hull code
vague scroll
sounds like a plan
stoic shale
lmao
terse gale
Pillar of Autumn>Infin
gilded mason
Yes, agreed. Though I love In Amber Clad's name the most.
terse gale
I know the Infin is all fancy and high tech but the Autumn was a tough old bird that could take a beating and deal out phat damage
dreamy glacier
well that is a proven point that no one would desagree
fair hazel
dont get weird
versed helm
My only problem with these moderator deletions
Is that they always make it look like whoever responded was talking to someone else
It's goofy
unique rune
INF-001
But her hull ID is INF-101...
keen brook
Indeed
radiant sphinx
UNSC Midsummer Night is the coolest name
And itβs Shakespeare
Strike literary fear into the Covenantβs heart
versed helm
Be wary of accidentally typing rude words in Spanish
Wait, the hell
Yep, you get the idea
keen brook
Don't forget Heart of Midlothian
terse gale
You can't say c a p t a i n because of the stupid spoiler bot @versed helm
keen brook
attracts 3 mods
gaunt karma
da heck
terse gale
Disney lifted the spoiler ban a few days ago, we can get rid of the bot now π
gaunt karma
=w=;;;;;
keen brook
madre
terse gale
You're kidding
keen brook
Huh
I know there's a mod here...
Show yourself!
π
We're just here testing the filter lol
gaunt karma
ya know
gaunt karma
I didn't think that one through
main frost
This isn't something that needs discussed.
keen brook
wrong one
terse gale
@main frost Disney lifted the spoiler ban a few days ago
main frost
Don't ping moderators unless there is a rule violation. The administration here decided to keep those on for a bit. When they feel the time is right they'll release them.
keen brook
I like that pfp by the way
Dozen
π
Anyway
I wanna talk about lor
e
but there's nothing to talk about
Or no topics
I have no questions cause I know most of the stuff π¦
main frost
Again, not a topic for discussion.
terse gale
πππ
keen brook
:/
versed helm
I guess it doesn't really matter.
gaunt oakBOT
versed helm
O7
keen brook
Gg
main frost
Discussion of moderation is still against the rules.
stoic hamlet
Whatβd I miss?
keen brook
For the record I did nothing wrong.
main frost
When I said knock it off I meant it
versed helm
Well, here's a genuine lore discussion for you.
stoic hamlet
Ah
keen brook
Yesssssss
gaunt karma
could I ask where it says that discussion about moderation is against the rules, please? like legitimately, I don't see the rule, sorry if it comes off as rude
versed helm
The Waypoint article on the Scorpion - specifically the differences between the M808C and B - isn't consistent with what can be observed.
gaunt karma
or like I'm trying to intentionally poke you
main frost
versed helm
For instance, the M808C is seen in almost all depictions to have something which greatly resembles a co-axial MG.
But Waypoint says that the M808B "adds" the co-ax.
gilded mason
@gaunt karma
- Do not repost content a moderator has removed or post about moderation decisions. If you have a question or concern about a moderation decision, please private message the applicable moderator.
gaunt karma
ohhh
versed helm
What that could be, however, is that it adds the co-ax over the prior version.
gaunt karma
okay, thanks
main frost
Again, knock it off and get back to the lore
versed helm
But it's hard to imagine a tank not having a co-axial machine gun tbh
versed helm
Especially one from the 26th century
keen brook
Any thoughts about the domain thing
In halo 5
And it being actually existent at all
carmine sleet
I mean, it's been round since before Halo 5 in the lore, as seen in the Forerunner Trilogy and the terminals in Halo 4
keen brook
Yeah it's precursor tech.
versed helm
I think a lot of people's complaints about it are a result of them looking for criticisms to add to what they already have at that particular game.
keen brook
Neurotech
gaunt karma
neural physics tech
keen brook
And since it's neuro Whatever
it's affected by the rings
So when they launched the rings
gilded mason
And it being actually existent at all
In a later short story after Halo 5 came out, Bornstellar and the others went to go fix it after the array fired.
keen brook
It would've been taken out
gaunt karma
it was taken out, correct
keen brook
How could they though
versed helm
That assumes that the Domain exists in a dimension that the Halos could hurt.
gaunt karma
oh, right, this was about the Domain
keen brook
It doesn't make sense for them to fix something that's been erased.
And if it was fixed it probably could've lost all it's memory since it was neuro and it was taken out.
versed helm
I think it's extremely easy to rationalize it not being "erased", given its nature as a something which does not exist in a linear sense.
gilded mason
The story "Promises to Keep" details it
versed helm
Let's be really dead-clear. Halo rings are not quasi-magical - what they do is emit a pulse wave which scrambles neurological networks.
As in, primary nervous systems.
keen brook
Also @versed helm off topic but just saw an answer to your earlier question. The covenant was told to have been in control of thousands of star systems.
versed helm
They are very, very physical - precursor structures are harmed by it because they appear to be held together by a system which operates functionally very similar to something that's alive.
keen brook
And yes, the precursors did use neruo tech to operate their technology
versed helm
The domain, just because it's something that's vaguely interrelated with "neural physics" principles, isn't immediately susceptible.
Before you can dictate to me exactly how that should work, you need to tell me what neural physics is.
So what is it?
safe siren
"Precursors felt the Mantle extended to the entire universe, energy and matter as well as living creatures ... some say. The universe lives, but not as we do."
versed helm
The fact that it's got "physics" in the name should tell you you're wrong, duck.
We're not talking about technology.
We're talking about a kind of fundamental force, I think.
keen brook
Neuro tech was their tech.
versed helm
It clearly has some bearing on living creatures and neurological networks, but that's not the be-all-end-all.
keen brook
They used it in their artifacts
safe siren
Basically, the universe was alive, and they were able to use it, like the connection between plants.
gaunt karma
they used neural physics in their tech, not neural tech in their tech
keen brook
My point was it was neural.
versed helm
Which doesn't mean anything. There's more to science than word-association.
versed helm
Basically, it's a conceptual way of thinking that bears a lot of similarity to the modern idea of pan-psychism.
safe siren
Everything is alive, in different ways
versed helm
I'm guessing on a base level it's just the science of consciousness, which is a hell of an idea since we don't even have the foggiest what consciousness is in the modern day.
keen brook
Besides it being a state of mind
versed helm
But the idea seems to be that consciousness is a fundamental force inherent to all things, and quite devoid of intelligence.
keen brook
Arguably.
versed helm
And you can use that inherent consciousness to help control the universe around you.
safe siren
The Dominion itself was sentient
keen brook
Like the star roads.
versed helm
Halos have a very observable effect on purely physical things. They kill living organisms, and they shatter precursor artifacts. Best guess - precursor artifacts are held together by a sort of nervous network that acts on an abstractly conscious basis, with some sort of physical component comparable enough to a neuro-nervous system to be harmed by a Halo pulse.
keen brook
The Halo rings destroy a targets neural system
Thats why it was effective against the flood.
versed helm
Not really. It was effective against the flood, because it killed its ability to coordinate and expand.
gaunt karma
and also it's main food source
keen brook
It killed the floods food.
gaunt karma
though I guess that's technically under "expand"
keen brook
And the flood itself.
versed helm
It evidently did not kill infection forms.
It kills anything that's alive, in a strict sense.
gaunt karma
it also kills Graveminds, since they're the centralised nervous networks of the Flood
keen brook
The flood also used a targets nervous system to infect a biological organism.
And it did.
gaunt karma
at least I believe that's what Looters had a theory for
safe siren
It kills everything with a nervous system, so plants should be fine
versed helm
As far as I can tell, the Flood grow by gaining intelligence, not raw biomass. They need brains.
More or less.
keen brook
They infect the host
Using their knowledge
By infecting their nervous system
That's how they grow
versed helm
They take their neuro-computional ability and make keyminds.
keen brook
In mind and mass
versed helm
The more complex their keyminds get, the more dangerous they are.
keen brook
Not even sure if this is an argument anymore.
versed helm
You keep making arguably slightly inaccurate but generally correct statements
keen brook
I think it was just a talk but I dunno
versed helm
For no reason
keen brook
So do you π
versed helm
I feel a compulsive need to clarify
versed helm
I disagree with you on the neural physics aspect, as I said.
Everything else is just slightly "eeehhh" wording by my sensibilities.
I feel like you were trying to build towards a logical point that would prove that The Domain should have been destroyed.
keen brook
Right. It was made of neural physics and nervous systems were destroyed by the halo rings
humble yacht
The Domain was destroyed, in a sense
versed helm
My point is that nervous systems =/= neural physics one-for-one. Nervous systems are certainly a part of it, but neural physics is about fundamental abstract consciousness, which doesn't require nervous systems.
keen brook
If it was made with nervous systems then it would've been affected
And in that case
destroyed
Also on another note, it was said that all the precursor artifacts were destroyed by the Halos
Or that's seen
gaunt karma
it wasn't made with nervous systems, they're two similar but not exactly the same thing
versed helm
I don't think there's anything to indicate that A) the Domain is made "with nervous systems", and B) even if it was, it exists in this reality in a way that would be targetable by a Halo pulse.
humble yacht
Neural physics and nervous systems are two different things
keen brook
You just said nervous systems were a part of it.
gaunt karma
didn't Precursor star roads go through Slipspace?
keen brook
And if that's the case
keen brook
It would've been affected.
versed helm
I did not actually say that.
keen brook
My point is that nervous systems =/= neural physics one-for-one. Nervous systems are certainly a part of it, but neural physics is about fundamental abstract consciousness, which doesn't require nervous systems.
versed helm
But if I did, quote me.
keen brook
^
versed helm
That's the direct opposite of what you said I said.
This is a frustrating conversation
gaunt karma
they didn't put quotation marks around it
humble yacht
You could think of neural physics as an advanced reality-altering ability only accessible by the most complex of nervous systems
gaunt karma
or do anything to signify it as a quote =w=;
versed helm
=/= literally means "does not equal"
I said nervous systems are a part of neural physics in general
In a conceptual sense
But that there's no reason to think nervous systems are part of the Domain
keen brook
Noooo you said it was "certainly a part of it" and my point is if it involves nervous systems
gaunt karma
think of it with this very silly example:
Oak is a part of wooden structures in general
but it is not used in Mahogany furniture
versed helm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
keen brook
Fire still burns it though.
versed helm
In the words of a great Marine
keen brook
Halo was fire, oak can be burned
versed helm
"Careful, I think you just strained a metaphor"
gaunt karma
I always speak in metaphors :p
humble yacht
Neural physical structures are beyond human comprehension; therefore, their destruction is also beyond conventional understanding
versed helm
I think you can make certain educated guesses about why things are destroyed, but not why they're not.
keen brook
None of us can really have a totally solid understanding of it.
versed helm
For example, let's look at AI.
versed helm
They're certainly intelligent and conscious, which would mean they're interrelated with neural physics as all things are.
humble yacht
it's basically like the Force
versed helm
Yet they persevere the firing of an array.
gaunt karma
until we get a being of Precursor-like intelligence, we'll never truly understand what "neural physics" is for a veeeeeeery long time
keen brook
Look here's an analogy I'll make in response.
I know the domain isnt made of JUST
Nerves
Or nerual things
But it's a part of it that keeps it functioning.
If you take a big enough part out of it it's not gonna work.
versed helm
There's never been any indication that that's the case thoooooo
humble yacht
As far as we know, there are no biological aspects to the Domain
versed helm
Or bio-analogous.
humble yacht
But just because it was destroyed does not mean it was irreparably destroyed
as apparent by what the lore has told us
humble yacht
Iso Didact basically rebooted it, and it took millions of years for the Domain to repair itself
safe siren
The dominion was destroyed, but a forerunner used herself as new 'start', kinda
feral perch
I was under the impression that the Domain was set on a course for repair
safe siren
After the reboot it repaired itself
keen brook
It had to repair itself
Also
The Domain itself was an aware, conscious entity with a will of its own. While this aspect of the Domain appears to have been a common belief among Forerunners and ingrained in their idioms and phrases,[3][4] the Juridicals did not formally recognize the Domain as any form of being or awareness
humble yacht
They had to defeat Abadon, but yeah, the Domain was put into repair mode after the Halo firings at the end of the Forerunner Flood War
Whether it's exactly the same as it once was, though, is unknown; in all likelihood, its not
humble yacht
The Domain in its prime was known to change what information it stored on a whim
humble yacht
A big mind is a more apt description than brain
versed helm
Neither does the domain
safe siren
It's like an organic ai
keen brook
They don't have the same tech
humble yacht
Domain doesn't have nerves
humble yacht
a nerve is a very specific term
versed helm
NO
feral perch
What is the Domain?
humble yacht
Neural physics does not mean nerve cells
versed helm
It's based in neural physics
keen brook
neuΒ·ral
/Λn(y)oΝorΙl/
adjective
relating to a nerve or the nervous system.
"patterns of neural activity"
._.
versed helm
That definition clearly doesn't apply in Halo
keen brook
Well we aren't precursors so.
humble yacht
this is where the fiction part of science fiction comes into play
feral perch
I wouldn't go that far
humble yacht
Obviously Halo doesn't follow the same rules as the real world
gaunt karma
slipspace as an example
keen brook
I don't regret bringing this topic up
versed helm
Because things like AI exist
tribal field
I don't know who's right or wrong but it just looks like Looters doesn't want to be wrong
keen brook
Its hard to type cause someone switched the keys on my keyboard
So X is where C is and its weird.
Anyway
Star roads.
They were destroyed by the halo.
feral perch
Is Boren's Syndrome real?
gaunt karma
nope
keen brook
And star roads were made with neuro tech
humble yacht
Star roads where precursor constructs
keen brook
They were.
humble yacht
they weren't biological
keen brook
And yeah it was made up
humble yacht
they weren't made of neurons
keen brook
But they were destroyed by the Halo
safe siren
The disease itself it's probably real tho
keen brook
Doesn't that say something
humble yacht
yes
feral perch
I've heard that Boren's Syndrome is real, but that Johnson didn't have it; the reasoning was that it would be too much effort to construct an entire disease for a single anomalous case.
gaunt karma
you underestimate the extent ONI goes
humble yacht
one target of the Halo effect happens to be nervous systems
keen brook
And yeah ONI is freakin fanatical
humble yacht
but its more complex than that
keen brook
No it's only the nervous systems
gaunt karma
ONI making up an entire disease to cover up genetically augmenting humans seems well within their realm
keen brook
Thats the *point(
humble yacht
no its not
feral perch
Considering Hunt the Truth, I'd be inclined to agree that they can be extreme in their solutions.
humble yacht
because the domain and Precursor constructs are not nervous systems
keen brook
The point of a halo was to destroy the nervous systems of things the flood can infect.
versed helm
The general vilification of ONI is down to people missing complexity, imo.
keen brook
Not anything else and if there is another target
I'd wanna know
Cause it seems like something I missed maybe.
humble yacht
you did
keen brook
Tell me
humble yacht
you missed the whole concept of neural physics
humble yacht
halopedia can help you
keen brook
I saw the URL
gaunt karma
the rings purpose was to kill all sentient life
keen brook
By destroying the nervous systems of life
Because thats how the flood infects things.
And the star roads were destroyed
humble yacht
The Halo effect is able to target and eliminate most forms of neural structures, from biological nervous systems to esoteric neural physics constructs, although the effect does not extend to artificial intelligences.
versed helm
I think, at the end of the day, if you wrap your head around the idea that in Halo what is encompassed by "neural" is more in relation to "consciousness", you'll be at peace.
feral perch
Some things aren't worth worrying about too hard. halo's purpose is to shoot aliens as a green guy. <----------hypocritical statement from me, but hey.
humble yacht
This means there is a distinction between biological neural systems and the abstract idea of neural physics
gaunt karma
it attacks the nervous system because that's what controls the whole body, that would just be the easiest way
versed helm
Hold up, hold up everyone
keen brook
No cause you're missing what I'm saying lol.
versed helm
Let's give a clear answer instead of beginning an orbital bombardment.
humble yacht
Like other Precursor technology, star roads were not made of ordinary matter.
safe siren
star roads were made using neural physics, a lot of precursors things uses it
gaunt karma
can't the Flood also infect via spores
keen brook
And they were destroyed and also Chim
It doesn
t
extend to AI
because AI are machines
They don't use anything neural.
versed helm
AI seem to be as alive as people in Halo.
gaunt karma
the Flood also infects with spores, doesn't it
versed helm
Smart ones, at least.
safe siren
Yes
feral perch
Ehhhh
gaunt karma
which only require you breathe them in
safe siren
Yes, they do
gaunt karma
and doesn't immediately access your nervous system
feral perch
that's the Created's theory
gaunt karma
cause they're a parasite
feral perch
I would say there's a distinction between AI and humans.
keen brook
In a very infected area, yes the spores carry the flood supercell
humble yacht
You're erroneously conflating neural physics with biological life, which is not supported in the lore
gaunt karma
the Flood is capable of infecting any organism, it just shows a heavy preference for sentient life
humble yacht
at the end of the day, neural physics cannot be defined as anything beyond an undefinable concept
keen brook
No it's literally both of those things in a sense.
humble yacht
it's not
keen brook
It is
versed helm
From a real-life perspective, what is neural is biological. From Halo's perspective, where much intelligence is artificial or semi-artificial, "neural" is a definition that extends to more abstract systems.
humble yacht
See
keen brook
Definition
gaunt karma
you're using
humble yacht
you're so wrong
humble yacht
because you're being too literal with human words used to describe an alien concept
gaunt karma
I'm pretty sure the Precursors didn't speak English
humble yacht
because there are no words that better communicate the concept
keen brook
if there was another definition for it we'd be using a different word lol
feral perch
I think it would be helpful to look at the Prometheans.
humble yacht
neural physics is the closest words in english
humble yacht
also
gaunt karma
even in the modern world right now
there are words in German that mean an entire phrase in English
versed helm
Alright, let's be careful about how we're handling this situation. if people start getting accusatory and close-minded, we won't be illuminating anyone.
humble yacht
AI in fiction have been shown to have neural-like patterns
versed helm
My back is already up a bit, and I can tell I'm not the only one.
feral perch
For instance, their name is derived from the myth of Prometheus. Of course, the "Prometheans" probably weren't called that in their language; rather it's an English approximation.
humble yacht
despite being inorganic
safe siren
If you want a definitive answer you need to ask grim or greg bear
gaunt karma
I'm very casual right now, I'm listening to a DnD podcast
feral perch
So the same may be true for the "neural" terminology.
versed helm
I mean you're the obvious exception Michelle xD
gaunt karma
ayyy
rigid locust
Bang
feral perch
It may not apply as literally as you might think.
gaunt karma
all dead
feral perch
Nornfang is jealous of the sniper rifle Linda used in First Strike
gaunt karma
Nornfang one shot the discussion
feral perch
you're not her first love
safe siren
playing tf2 right now, can't be more relaxed
versed helm
I think in Halo, given how AI is formulated, the extension of the term "neural" into something broader is not un-warranted.
versed helm
And Greg Bearian postulating about neural physics relating to the "living universe" proves that.
rigid locust
I'm the one she uses now and that's all that matters
keen brook
They use neural patterns
versed helm
Because the universe can't have nerves in a way that we would understand them.
gaunt karma
this still bothers me, Titanfall 2 has kicked out Team Fortress 2
humble yacht
Yeah. Again, neural physics is alot like the Force in Star Wars
feral perch
She dropped you in Unconfirmed and Locke picked you up. She's got some other sniper rifle now.
keen brook
No
humble yacht
its not like the Force was a physical thing
keen brook
It's not
versed helm
It's abstract neurology, tied into abstract consciousness
keen brook
At all
safe siren
Team Fortress, non Titanfall
keen brook
Neuro physics is physical
feral perch
you're dead to me @safe siren
gaunt karma
it isn't physical
humble yacht
"neural physics" can be thought of the mind's ability to affect the physics of reality
feral perch
welllllll
humble yacht
its not "neuronal physics"
feral perch
I think you're going beyond the realm of your own knowledge base there
versed helm
I mean, at the end of the day, duck, you may have qualms with the conceptualization that have been presented to us by Greg Bear's work.
safe siren
I have titanfall on Xbox, not on pc :C
Neural Physics can also mean an entire system based around neuronic-like connections
versed helm
But even still, you can't then say that Halo's internal logic is compromised from an external standpoint.
It just doesn't work.
And I think everyone here needs to familiarize themselves with what that term has been associated with in elements of Halo fiction before they contribute.
feral perch
Does Master Chief prefer one series of MA over another?
versed helm
The concepts it entails aren't clear, but they are discussed.
keen brook
Ok this isn't going anywhere clearly
feral perch
Did he like the hefty MA5B the most, or does he prefer the MA5D?
feral perch
I noticed.
versed helm
It's hard to imagine him having a real preference when it comes to weapons.
It's more about the right tool, right?
safe siren
Effect more than affect
humble yacht
whut
feral perch
Yeah, I think so.
I remember that logic being applied to Cortana in his mind in one or more of the original three Halo novels
And he was conflicted over it iirc
safe siren
I don't even know if it is a translation for that actually, i just tried.
In italian sound better
versed helm
Effect over affection, maybe?
safe siren
Yes, that was what i meant to say
versed helm
Actually, no. Had a Google.
Affect works too.
It has emotional connotations.
I might steal that phrase. Very useful.
versed helm
I'd wager on a descendant being around.
keen brook
Yeah
safe siren
Nice, thanks for the lesson.
Probably yes, not google but a descendant for sure
versed helm
Oogle was Google's adult site which launched in the 22nd century.
feral perch
bad
keen brook
Lol
safe siren
UNSE - United Nation Search Engine
versed helm
Your number one source for learning the human rights.
safe siren
A official one with unofficial ones used by rebels\other
versed helm
I mean, I thought that the big space "internet" was Waypoint, in-universe
And I assume there'd be different browsers for that.
Though the logistics of it are a bit of a mindfreak.
More likely, every planet - or more likely system - has its own internal Waypoint.
With just as many competing browsers.
The UNSC probably utilizes an intelligent self-synchronizing automated database for internal information management.
A system of which the battlenet is a function.
versed helm
I'd guess that each internet-equivalent is semi-regularly synchronizing with external sources, though.
And that goes double for UNSC systems, which likely organically evolve and start patterns of informational distribution as new stuff is added from each ship or installation or whatever.
With dedicated extra-system communication stations helping to facilitate that.
I feel like I'm getting the point where my "speculation" is more or less something that has been officially stated.
safe siren
a lot of minerals and work
humble yacht
With alien tech and advanced knowledge
versed helm
I think he might be joking guys
safe siren
those are serious answer?
fair hazel
Don't troll around.
unique rune
Jokes are supposed to be funny.
versed helm
Feel the force of lore-nerd wrath
humble yacht
bacteria don't go extinct but sentient life did
keen brook
If humanity lost to the covenant
humble yacht
only came back due to the conservation measure
humble yacht
Depends on when the loss would have happened
versed helm
Fusion reactors generate a very extreme amount of energy.
humble yacht
Pretty sure humans let the Flood out on Installation 04
keen brook
It could've happened around 3 times
safe siren
before halo:ce - nothing happens
after halo:ce - flood destroy everything
keen brook
Coles time
gaunt karma
the Covenant let them out, Humans undid the locks the Covenant tried to put back in
from how I understand it
keen brook
Battle of Earth
humble yacht
The Covenant had long known about the Flood, though
keen brook
And no they were out on installation 5 already
humble yacht
would be kind of silly for them to have let them out
gaunt karma
they did? :o
keen brook
That's where they initially got out
The caretaker was lame with the quarantine measures
humble yacht
The Covenant knew they were called the Flood. They even had a nickname for them
versed helm
Ships need a stupid amount of energy to manoeuvre effectively in space, by the way, among other things, @versed helm so the detonation of what powers them would be easily sufficient to compromise the integrity of something that's not even that large cosmically speaking. A fusion reactor actually detonating on a planet would be a catastrophic event of unimaginable magnitude. Something akin to what wiped out the dinosaurs.
But the same could be said for a high-velocity crash from a capital ship.
Or a super-MAC round.
But the qualifier there is that it's nearly impossible from a physics standpoint to make a fusion reactor explode.
It shouldn't be possible, as I understand it.
Whatever happened in Halo CE was a very, very precisely orchestrated malfunction in the Pillar of Autumn's systems that required high explosives.
humble yacht
Or they just called it a fusion reactor because it sounds cool
:p
general audiences are probably less likely to connect with the term "fission", even though nuclear fission is how modern day reactors function
I'm guessing they just co-opted the term "fusion" and applied general fission reactor characteristics to it
i.e. the potential for explosions
versed helm
My money's more on the idea that the destablization was more a cascading failure to contain the reactor's output rather than the reaction itself causing a detonation.
"Wildcat destabilization of the engine core".
humble yacht
maybe
but it's also possible that they didn't think too hard about nuclear physics when writing the story
versed helm
Yeah, but that's a perspective that belongs more in general discussion than it does lore and universe.
versed helm
So I'm thinking that maybe what happened was something along the lines of the reactor's output being maximised while the mechanisms designed to harness that energy were disengaged and their failsafes destroyed - probably only something that could be achieved because of damage the Autumn had already sustained. The excessive energy spikes caused detonations in many of the ship's systems, before the reactor itself quite literally burned away the ship around it and dumped a hideous amount of raw heat into the ring before itself being destroyed.
Either that structural damage alone was sufficient to neutralize the ring, or the reaction occurring on the surface cascaded with some of the ring's processes - maybe ones relating to the state it was in as it prepared to fire - and that caused the final destruction.
humble yacht
That fits with modern day concepts of nuclear fusion
They basically turned the engines into a nuclear bomb
so there was heat and there was concussive force
turbid brook
Fairly sure Cortana said something about the reactors being able to produce a powerful enough explosion to destroy the ring
So that would suggest the first of the two
"We can't let the Monitor activate Halo. We have to stop him. We have to destroy Halo. According to my analysis of the available data, I believe the best course of action is somewhat... risky. An explosion of sufficient size will help destabilize the ring, and will cut through a number of primary systems; we need to trigger a detonation on a large scale, however. A star ship's fusion reactors going critical would do the job. I'm going to search what's left of the Covenant Battlenet, and see if I can locate the Pillar of Autumn's crash-site. If the ship's fusion reactors are still relatively intact, we can use them to destroy Halo." - When John-117 is leaving the Control Room.
So both?
idk
what are we even talking about?
I assume how Halo got destroyed?
versed helm
Yeah, I see that as pretty definitive.
The big question was how you actually get a fusion reactor to produce an explosion.
turbid brook
Grenades.
And rockets.
Into exhausts.
versed helm
Fusion reactors are fundamentally different from fission reactors. They're actually super safe.
The raw ingredients aren't really there for a bang, as I understand it.
humble yacht
given that a fusion core is still theoretical, I imagine they treated it mechanistically as a nuclear bomb
turbid brook
A star ship's fusion reactors going critical would do the job.
Nothing theoretical about it.
humble yacht
no i mean
versed helm
I mean, I think it could work with a modern understanding as more of a burny thing than a boomy thing.
humble yacht
fusion reactors are theoretical in modern day
versed helm
How hot did Cortana say it was going to get?
humble yacht
100 million degrees
versed helm
That'd probably burn into a ring xD
turbid brook
"Activating final countdown timer. When it reaches zero, the engines will detonate. The explosion will generate a temperature of almost 100,000,000 degrees. Don't be there when it blows." - To John-117, in the Warthog station.
humble yacht
but she didn't specify what scale
turbid brook
ye
versed helm
And as I understand it, rings aren't really meant to be durable.
You could probably achieve desirable results by pumping enough MAC rounds into one.
versed helm
Exactly.
humble yacht
though looking at the explosive potential of a MAC round from the UNSC Grafton, it wasn't all that impressive
at least, not compared to the Autumn blowing up
versed helm
We're talking a heavy MAC, firing on full-power.
turbid brook
Could have just aimed down and fired maybe, let's see 1,000,000,000 rounds of an MA5B into the floor :^)
versed helm
There's sorta an underlying assumption that MACs aren't fired on their fullest power because of energy constraints and hypervelocity dynamics, I think.
humble yacht
Johnson described the orbital stations as having the capacity to punch a hole through a Covenant capital ship
so the question is, is a ring more durable than a covenant cruiser
versed helm
I think the shields form the biggest part of a cruiser's durability.
I'd say there's not a terrible amount of protective difference between UNSC starship-grade titanium-alloys, Covenant nanolaminated materials and Forerunner smart matter.
They're all probably materials at the very cutting edge of how strong you can make a thing.
humble yacht
size becomes the difference
versed helm
Energy shields are where real protective value is derived.
And Halo rings seem to lack them.
humble yacht
There's alot more ring you have to punch through
turbid brook
Halo rings have loads of tunnels and passageways through them, so they might not be as thick and durable as they seem. But that might benefit them also.
humble yacht
If you fire a MAC round down directly at the surface of a planet, how deep would it go?
if that depth is greater than the thickness of a Halo, then question answered
versed helm
https://youtu.be/Y21qBthatBc?t=170 Here's H2A's interpretation of how the rings' destruction kicked off btw
Looks a little like a reaction that involved the ring itself in some way.
Probably a ridiculous amount of energy in a Halo ring's systems.
You compromise the containment of that energy, you're asking for trouble.
humble yacht
probably
versed helm
But as for the MAC, I think the damage you could do with it is less about whether or not it actually skewers the ring
And more about how many vital things and how much structural damage you can cause before the slug gets stopped.
humble yacht
Well it'd need to go deep enough to hit a critical system
fair hazel
I've thought of it as the ring spinning
And having that energy behind it
With the explosion happening, really really powerful
left a big crater, was it 100km?
it imparted enough energy to
humble yacht
I don't see how the ring spinning added to the explosive force of the detonation
fair hazel
destabilize the spin force.
So in one direction it accelerates, in the other it goes the opposite
humble yacht
oh i see
fair hazel
causing the ring to shatter
versed helm
The ring's inertia probably contributed to it being torn apart.
But were're talking about the sheer mechanics of the ring sustaining enough damage to become destabilized.
humble yacht
that could be the "destabilization" Cortana spoke of
but when viewing the explosion itself, it doesn't really come accross as that
versed helm
It looks like a huge segment of the ring burning away from within.
humble yacht
that sort of destabilization would probably look more like a a hinged ring coming unclasped
with two points of the ring diverging from the site of the explosion
instead what we see part of the ring cave inward
versed helm
Which is why I said that maybe it's to do with the inertia of the ring's orbit.
humble yacht
specifically the part where the series of explosions originated (likely the Autumn site), which is ironically in the opposite direction that the force of the explosion would have been
versed helm
Maybe the separated portion lost velocity that the rest of the ring maintained and smashed into it
humble yacht
those pieces should have been blown outward
versed helm
I ain't a physicist though
turbid brook
Doesn't matter. Kelvin, Farenheit or Celcius: 100,000,000 degrees is still hot.
fair hazel
It's halo so
humble yacht
i'm semi joking
fair hazel
Celcius
or farenheit
i mean kelvin
too bad i dont have an ebook copy of the early novels
versed helm
That would be a good place to check that I for some reason didn't think of
fair hazel
I seem to have in memory something about a crater...
Seriously why do I remember that? I can't find anything on halopedia about it. Did my mind play a trick on me and convert 100km crater to 100 million degrees?
Oh well..
versed helm
It's obviously a very big crater.
fair hazel
It looks over 150 million KM in the mona lisa
Did I just say that?
It looks over 100km in the mona lisa shot
ashen wharf
Whatβs tonightβs lore discussion?
Question were mantises used during the human covie war?
Or only after?
unique rune
Mantises were deployed during the later parts of the Human-Covenant War. One of these conflicts, involving Covenant Mantis anti-aircraft guns is said to be one of the possible in-universe origins for the UNSC Mantis' name.
autumn urchin
How many grafton class frigates does it take to destroy a covenant crusier
dreamy tulip
I know yall know your lore better than me but how long can a Forunner live for like the master builder
unique rune
Forerunners could live near-indefinite lifespans with their personal armor.
unique rune
It's possible that some are still alive in the 26th century, but none have been confirmed, if I remember correctly.
dreamy tulip
Do you think well see mark 5 B in h6
ashen wharf
@autumn urchin whatβs a grafton class frigate?
@autumn urchin : βHow many grafton class frigates does it take to destroy a covenant crusier β
Never heard of of a grafton class.
unique rune
I would assume they're referring to the Paris-class frigates, one of which was the UNSC Grafton.
last anchor
The answer; one, if you happen to have its slip drive avalible
carmine sleet
Savannah gave its drive, not the Grafton
quiet frigate
It's possible that some are still alive in the 26th century, but none have been confirmed, if I remember correctly.
what about the didact?
i dont remember it saying explicitly anywhere that he died
and he only got synthesized or whatever
but i dont believe thats a good death for him
and i doubt he's dead
clever fable
The last word on his status was that he was only "contained", and I recall a word or two from Reed saying that they had something in store for the Ur-Didact in the future. That was a few years back though, so who knows how much plans have changed. I'd expect him to make a return in some capacity in the future, but it's difficult coming up with any worthwhile speculation imo. The character is kinda written into a corner where anything can be justified to happen since we haven't covered much ground there.
quiet frigate
Yea but he is still alive , so one of the last few living forerunners.
obsidian thistle
We last saw him in the Domain in the Halo Coloring Book. (Canon be weird like that)
versed helm
you...you're kidding
im having a hard time keeping my composure canon
I mean at this point I'm genuinely befuddled as to 343's methods of getting lore out there.
Like, books and everything are cool, but when it comes to mega-important plot details we're getting them in freakin colouring books and the one time we were supposed to get gratuitous detail they cut it all out of the darn book.
And yes, I am still very salty about Warfleet. From my extremely biased perspective, it was more of a let-down than Halo 5, legitimately not even joking.
Though the Field Manual was awesome when it wasn't giving weapons that supposedly exist in a realistic environment ratings out of ten.
Maybe I'm just expecting more detail from Halo lore than I have a right to, I dunno. But if the Didact is in the Domain and that ends up being a major plot point of any kind, I really hope they adequately explain it. And if they try to do a semi-surprising reveal, this'll goofifiy it because we already know he's in the Domain.
Not from any kind of subtle hint or foreshadowing, mind, but because a mother-fragging Colouring Book told us.
carmine sleet
I don't think CIA meant that the Colouring Book was where we learnt that info, just that's the last we heard from the Ur-Didact
quiet frigate
lmao
honestly id like to see a scene where the chief teams up against cortana with the didact if he really is in the domain
versed helm
That would be awesome.
versed helm
Though as far as I'm aware, the Didact's fate post-Escalation hasn't been discussed elsewhere.
If the Colouring Book is discussing what happened to the Didact after those events, then it'd be the first.
Unless I've goofed up hard and he was in the Domain between 4 and Escalation
obsidian thistle
Its the latest we seen the Didact. But tbh the info he is in the Domain also is in Escalations, Waypoint, and Halo 5.
Escalations is more implied.
Waypoint says something about him being digital
And Halo 5 heavily implies it.
The Coloring book just puts the info together.
safe siren
"Effectively turned into a digital essence, the Office of Naval Intelligence currently considers the Didact βcontainedβ, though it remains to be seen if his threat to humanity is truly at an end."
obsidian thistle
Yep that
keen brook
That's after he fell through the portal in Halo 4 and ended up on another ring or something, can't quite remember the details
obsidian thistle
Gamma Halo
fair hazel
Warfleet was great
dreamy marlin
So basically he was disintegrated and contained
random watcher: lets see what i can do about this
quiet frigate
was it really gamma halo?
safe siren
"After his battle with the Master Chief during the New Phoenix Incident, the Didact fell into a slipspace rift generated by his flagship, Mantleβs Approach, was transported Installation 03 (Gamma Halo)."
from Waypoint
tall tapir
By curiosity are cryo troopers canon?
versed helm
Cryo troopers are hellbringers with a different loadout.
A theoretical loadout that may not actually have ever been used in combat.
tall tapir
I thought since since colossus are canon?
safe siren
Yes
Everything from Halo Wars 2 multiplayer is canon if it doesn't go against already established canon, like johnson
modest marsh
Cryotroopers are a crack dream, ssshhhh
tall tapir
So like heavy grunts are canon?
modest marsh
The siphon troopers from Blitz are a real thinker
tall tapir
What mp doesn't count does it
modest marsh
Heavy grunts?
safe siren
The heavy grunts? Really? From all strange things in the game you choose the most realistic one?
modest marsh
Grunt Heavies have been in the game since Halo 2
versed helm
It's canonical as a prototype or simulated bit of gear.
modest marsh
They usually wear green armor
versed helm
The colossus is canon because it was in Spearbreaker.
tall tapir
Yea now i remember anything in campaign is canon
modest marsh
Itβs worth pointing out that cryo weapons were seen as early as the first halo wars
Serinaβs offensive leader power
safe siren
That was a less refined cryo tho
versed helm
There's a difference between dumping a payload that seems to, in essence, drastically reduce the temperature in the surrounding area
And do whatever the cryo trooper's weapons do
modest marsh
I wouldnβt say less refined
tall tapir
Freeze
modest marsh
Itβs a different application
versed helm
Which currently seems to be "throw ice at people".
tall tapir
They freeze
modest marsh
Cryopods do the same thing in essence
safe siren
It's like the actual freezing spray, but with military applications
tall tapir
Apparently they suppose do damage through shattering
Gameplay wise. No sure if that translate to lore
versed helm
I would be very careful equating gameplay mechanics such as that to the combat realities of these weapons on the ground, aye.
safe siren
Well, try to stay in contact with ice for a while, it hurts, a lot
versed helm
I could conceivably see extreme cold as being effective against vehicle systems, and obviously infantry wouldn't be having much fun
modest marsh
Cold would be more effective against equipment and vehicles than eliminating infantry themselves
safe siren
And they basically throw cold air at you
modest marsh
Especially since infantry on both sides are generally well protected against the elements
versed helm
I think it's probably more a matter of either pushing heat away from the target or sucking it in.
tall tapir
Who would in
Advance alien tech or Some cold air
versed helm
It's probably some crazy tech based on quantum-level stuff.
modest marsh
Cold juice
safe siren
Advance alien tech or some metal pieces?
It doesn't matter how much a tech is advanced
versed helm
I mean, fundamentally, it's energy manipulation.
In what would seem to be a very specific form.
It would not surprise me to find that it's some combination of hideously complex, ruinously expensive and difficult to produce
As well as likely still being deep in the prototype phase and wildly unpredictable
modest marsh
Itβs finely cut solid nitrogen shot out of a leafblower
versed helm
π€
safe siren
The canon says " weaponized vacuum energy cryotech" so.. what it should be?
safe siren
Basically is forerunner tech,
versed helm
I guess I was thinking more energy vacuum than vacuum energy xD
safe siren
"As there are no Bisons aboard the Spirit of Fire at present, Isabel has looked at improving and repurposing the siphon with her own research data on Forerunner vacuum energy cells, but the delicacy and intricacy of Serinaβs manufacturing template complicates this effort."
versed helm
Or just one of the UNSC's stumbling steps into Forerunner-esque technology.
Along with slipspace drives and all the fine grav manipulation they apparently have.
Speaking specifically in the case of the classic cryo-bomb here.
safe siren
I hope that they will give us some variant of flamethrower in future, the fodder says:
"Hellbringers are qualified to maintain, operate, and deploy a number of specialist weapon systems in the UNSC arsenal.This includes a range of incendiary, thermobaric, energetic, chemical, and biological weapons that most UNSC personnel are not even aware of."
versed helm
Maybe the next time we use the flamethrower in a mainline Halo game it can be partially effective
safe siren
What do you mean? You don't like enemies on fire that run at you?
It seems that Serina is the only one that uses cryonics as weapon
versed helm
It's just inefficient. I think it could use a range buff.
And an increase to the velocity of the fire as leaves the thrower.
modest marsh
Maybe have a variable choke akin to the shotgun when smartlinked
versed helm
If it performs how it looks like it does in Halo Wars 2, I'd be content xD
Coherent beams of flame intensify
quartz willow
Yes
safe siren
He is the halo equivalent of Zerg
quartz willow
Yapyap the god
It has been said that once every millennia a grunt will deliver the unggoy from oppression but hes not it
obsidian thistle
Oh the Cryo Troopers exist however
That is the bigger case
But
The Phoenix Logs suggest prototypes were made.
fair hazel
to me the phoenix logs are more, ideas of it, from my interpretation
obsidian thistle
Oh only the Cryo Trooper gear has prototypes made.
The other stuff cant be made. Or hasnt been made.
latent bramble
Question, whats up with Tβvaoans? Are they even still alive?
modest marsh
Why would they not be
gaunt oakBOT
versed helm
What human species are the B'ashamanush?
vivid dust
the what now
dreamy tulip
How many ancient human ships are there
versed helm
Does the Planet of Blue and Red still exist in the modern era
gilded mason
Why would it not
carmine sleet
It's hinted that the planet at the end of Bad Blood is the same planet
keen brook
ashen wharf
versed helm
dreamy marlin
gleaming terrace
exotic zinc
dreamy marlin
exotic zinc
versed helm
obsidian thistle
Lets get back to lore chat now.
versed helm
Tbh the MA2B being compared to the MA5B by having "electronic targeting" and "recoil-reduction" systems really made my day.
Like, all these things are so obviously implied in basic design language and context
But people are so resistant to the idea of this kind of progress occurring in UNSC weapons, if only to call them less plausible.
Of course, I bet there'd be dudes out there who'd say "duh, electronic targeting could just be a red-dot sight or electronic scope, and recoil reduction's obviously just a standard modern-day recoil buffer"
But that's just the nature of people associating themselves with Halo without having an appreciation for sci-fi, I guess.
versed helm
It's just a thing that happens. Particularly with operator types.
I've encountered many people that see the AR-15 as the pinnacle of rifle technology.
Well, many is an overstatement.
A few particularly annoying people.
feral perch
I mean, it's sci-fi. Weapons can work however they want
versed helm
Yeah, exactly.
dreamy marlin
True, but i do like mass effect in the fact it explains most everything
final python
Hi I'm new but I'm amasive halo fan
ashen wharf
Hello @final python welcome to the server!
versed helm
Wassup
ashen wharf
Not much
