lore-and-universe

[low idol]

im hoping for little to no prometheans in infinite. they are by far the worst thing in halo 4 & 5 to me.

[humble yacht]

I'd heavily bank on prometheans being a major part of Infinite

[feral perch]

It wouldn't make sense for them not to appear

[low idol]

my biggest fear for infinite is if they play too big of a role again, everyone/most people are going to dislike the campaign again. they honestly ruined 4 & 5's gameplay for me

[stoic shale]

4 was good. 5 on the other hand, was a joke.

[humble yacht]

Promtheans didn't ruin 5 for me

There were other reasons why I didn't like 5

Prometheans were pretty low on the list of turn offs

[feral perch]

Same

[radiant sphinx]

Only thing that bothered me about the prometheans in 5 was the sudden introduction of the Soldier class and how Knights are uber powerful (I’m sure there’s some canonical reason in the books that everyone knows but me). I honestly prefer the Prometheans in 5 though, other than soldiers speaking English

[safe siren]

They are new models, it make sense with Cortana in control, Cortana has also resumed the construction of the soldiers, they weren't active before her uprising, it is written in a Canon Fodder, if I am not mistaken.

[feral perch]

If you read Hunters on the Dark, it explains what the Armigers were before Halo 5 released, iirc

[safe siren]

oh ok, in the wiki it says that the 'soldier' class of armigers was the one re-discovered by the Created

[feral perch]

The Knights changing was explained in Halo: Escalation, I believe.

[stoic shale]

If to say two Gravemind were to meet each other. What would happen?

They both are one mind so would they act the same?

[humble yacht]

They'd probably fuse to create a more powerful processing unit

[stoic shale]

That makes sense.

[versed helm]

They’d just combine yeah

Also I just found out the primordial said the precursors are the same thing as the flood

[stoic shale]

aren't the precursors the flood?

I'm pretty sure they are.

[unique rune]

The Flood are the mutated/corrupted reconstitution of Precursors.

[stoic shale]

ya

[last anchor]

With the mind of the last of them, the Primordial, driving them

At least it was

[dreamy tulip]

It be cool if we could hear the Primordial talk to Chief like The flood did

[terse gale]

Wasn't the primordial the one that talked to him in H2

[astral socket]

Weird question

Are there any places in the world with halo style human architecture?

[carmine sleet]

In our world? No, not really

[tropic basin]

ok ok so am i correct to say the 2 ways flood infect are through the flood popcorn things and spores

[gilded mason]

That sounds right, as far as I know.

[tropic basin]

ok so hear me out

i belive the lil popcorn things work their way in by the spine

like taking it over is the main thing they gotsta do

or as i belive

so take this

grunts have a hard exoskelleton/skin

at least i think

and they have their spine covered up 24/7 by the methane tanks

so the spine is hard to reach

and the classic grunts use breathers that cover the mouth and nose

making them a perfect anti flood unit

[hardy goblet]

😂

[warm wigeon]

so give grunts halo CE pistols and deploy en mass

[tropic basin]

yes

[warm wigeon]

and energy shields can't forget those

[tropic basin]

yap yap THE DESTROYER will lead humanity and the universe into a flood free uptopia

[terse gale]

Suicide Grunts>Flood

[tropic basin]

just give em a flamethrower

[warm wigeon]

what will we call these little badasses

[tropic basin]

oh im sorry gravemind who

[terse gale]

I'm telling you, a mighty Grunt army headed by Yapyap>Flood

[tropic basin]

the only way to infect is getting in their peen

wich is coverd in a hard exoskeleton skin

hehe laugh now whilst you can

[terse gale]

Give em CE Magnums, Needlers, and lots of plasma grenades. Boom, ez anti-Flood army

[tropic basin]

for the only remaining race will be the unggoy

[terse gale]

They've got hella tough skin, methane tanks protect their spine, and they love spamming plasma grenades. Best anti-Flood units in existence.

Give em CE Magnums and they'd wipe out the Flood entirely within a year

[tropic basin]

also the breathers found in classic grunts prevent the spores

yea

[warm wigeon]

we need a game for this

[tropic basin]

yes

you play as a grunt

10/10

[versed helm]

yes+

[modest marsh]

Grunt skin is hard, but the flood shouldn’t have trouble cleaving it fairly easily

[tropic basin]

alright time to delay infinite we got more ambitious titles on our hands

remember how confident they are in grunt goblins

[warm wigeon]

it could be called Left for Flood

[tropic basin]

telling them this will boost their confidence tenfold

they will act like gods and not cower

[terse gale]

Yapyap: Playground of Destruction

Best game ever, c'mon 343

We've played as ODST's, now it's time for the rise of the Grunt

[tropic basin]

maybe there could be climbing systems to utalise those ability's

also mele would kill

make use of hard skin and big forarms

[terse gale]

Grunts should be able to use large Needler crystals as melee weapons like they do in the books

[warm wigeon]

Grunt stomp flood forms like goomba stomping only better

[tropic basin]

yea

[warm wigeon]

when was that a thing

[tropic basin]

then you could ad in grunt goblins

[terse gale]

Contact Harvest @warm wigeon

[warm wigeon]

oh

[terse gale]

Jackals and Grunts used large Needler crystals as melee weapons

[tropic basin]

remember when jackals used to pester grunts

now look whos laughing

[warm wigeon]

a spoonful of blamite makes th flood forms go down

[terse gale]

Yayap in The Flood saved lots of Jackals, smh

Nobody thinks about him tho 😢

[tropic basin]

then again grunt infection forms (not walking ball sack bois) would be a pain

[warm wigeon]

@limpid meadow get in on this discussion dude

[terse gale]

Grunts and Jackals only get turned into Carriers

[tropic basin]

yea

but what if it wasnt a carrier

[terse gale]

What do the Flood do with Hunters?

[tropic basin]

thats strong arms and strong arms again

their worms remember

[terse gale]

Yeah, so what do the Flood do with them

[tropic basin]

hmm

[terse gale]

It's not like you can infect one

[tropic basin]

well i dont think they could use them

so they cant infect

oh god we have another anti flood unit idea

[terse gale]

Hell yes

Give Hunters energy swords too

[warm wigeon]

flame hunters

[terse gale]

Hunter cannons probably wreck Flood

So give em giant swords and they're Gucci 👌

[tropic basin]

grunts and hunters the 2 best anti flood enemies

aight i cant debate no more

sleep time

i cant use my custom emotes

[warm wigeon]

Gnight

[tropic basin]

👋

[subtle depot]

Grunts can be infected they’re just never used as combat forms because of their small stature. They are normally used as biomass probably best to stick with hunters

[fair hazel]

they're not small

a grunt has more mass than I do

[terse gale]

Grunts are like 5'5, lol

[versed helm]

I thought they were 5'9

[versed helm]

Obviously their height varies

[stoic hamlet]

They’re tall bois

[strong sage]

Dayyum they tall and im like 5’8 smoll boi ;-;

[versed helm]

You’re about the height of Lucy

[subtle depot]

Yeah I know they’re technically heavier than humans but there’s something about them that makes them unfit to be a combat form. Like humans are faster which could be part of it. Grunts are a lot more stocky

[quartz willow]

Most likely

[upper star]

There was a massive grunt in novella about half jaw about 6ft I think

[quartz willow]

Yes the shadow of intent

That was the story my good sir

I'm also surprised this conversation about grunts was as long as it was

[modest marsh]

Grunts are unfit because of their skeletal structure

Simple as that

Same with jackals

Combat forms are heavily reliant on manipulating the hosts skeleton to form weapons and support its body whilst redistributing a huge amount of tissue to maximize lethality

[safe siren]

The Unngoy are rare, but they can be used as bases for combat form

https://www.halopedia.org/File:HW2_-_Flood_Unggoy_form.jpg

[modest marsh]

They can, but they’re less than ideal combat forms

[cerulean sand]

I imagine they'd be somewhat suitable in some situations because they almost got chief in the first book but yea...the unngoy can be sneaky sometimes

[versed helm]

You killed YapYap!

[cerulean sand]

or yip yap

[versed helm]

wat about Flap Yap

[cerulean sand]

or dapper dap

i can just imagine a grunt with a fedora

[versed helm]

dapper's user bowlers, tyvm

[cerulean sand]

oof sorry, I'm more focused on a grunt being a white knight holding a mtn dew and a bag of Doritos

[versed helm]

that wouldnt be dapper tho. that'd be gamer

[cerulean sand]

and thats where i quit my joke

[versed helm]

What about flippyap

[quartz willow]

You mean the myth the legend the grunt

The only grunt who could ever challenge yapyap

[gloomy condor]

the absolute legend flippyap saviour of grunts, and killer of demons

[versed helm]

i cant remember, was there a hidden grunt in halo 2?

[gloomy condor]

theres a scared one in the 2nd to last arbiter mission

thats kinda considerd the secret grunt

on uprising

[stoic hamlet]

Speaking of sizes, Lucy was described as “one of the smallest Spartans in Beta Company” meaning she wasn’t the smallest.

I wonder if any were the average heights for their ages post augmentation, or maybe just a few inches short?

I wonder who the smallest Spartan III is, actually.

[versed helm]

she was smallest post aug

but pre-aug she was only 5'3"

or was it pre-aug

[stoic hamlet]

No. That’s her height post augment

[versed helm]

it says at 12

but not as adult

does lucy still have PTSD?

i just assumed they were augmented at the same age as S-2's

[stoic hamlet]

Nah they were augmented younger

Around 10-13

[versed helm]

been a while. couldnt remember

3s and 2s have basically the same Augs, main difference is the armor

[stoic hamlet]

Whereas the II’s were augmented at 14

But yeah, their augmentations did the same thing

[versed helm]

armor was the difference

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm

They’re still faster than the human eye can track, even without MJOLNIR.

[versed helm]

plus the experimental aug Kurt snuck in

[stoic hamlet]

That was only for the Gammas

But ye

[versed helm]

that was gamma

the like animal thingy

?

[stoic hamlet]

They’re not ticking time bombs though, as some have described

It heightens the fight in the flight or fight response. basically makes them immune to pain and shock while the drugs are active.

[versed helm]

isn't it where they go into that time of rage when their injured?

[stoic hamlet]

They still take the hits of course, but they don’t feel it

Ehh, not always rage

Dante didn’t

Olivia did, but IIRC she was getting low on Smoothers

[versed helm]

adrenaline*?

[stoic hamlet]

It’s like adrenaline x1000

[versed helm]

more adrenaline than rage

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah

[versed helm]

they basically took too much 5 hour energy

[stoic hamlet]

Probably one of the worst things to fight in the Halo universe.

A drugged up child soldier who can kick half-Ton exosuits a few metres and move faster than the human eye and who feels no pain.

And that’s without the absurd reaction time, expert tactics, armour, etc

[versed helm]

they die shortly after though

[stoic hamlet]

No

Only if their wounds are lethal

The drugs don’t kill them

[versed helm]

most who got shot would die

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm

[versed helm]

the armor wasnt good at all protection wise

[stoic hamlet]

Well, it was

Compared to what we have today at least

Even in Halo it’s not terrible

It can take a few plasma bolts

[subtle depot]

Depends what hit them. Maybe if it was a plasma round but most Spartans can take a bullet and at least survive

And then the armor boosts that too

[stoic hamlet]

SPI is bulletproof IIRC

[subtle depot]

Sorry I meant without armor

[stoic hamlet]

or like, incredibly bullet resistant.

Well without the armour they’re still faster than a human can track

You’d need to get lucky to actually hit them

[versed helm]

its "bulletproof" to small arms fire, but not larger weapons

like br's or dmrs

[stoic hamlet]

Those are small arms

[subtle depot]

Yeah just spray and pray if you’re being attacked by a spartan.

[versed helm]

Spartan 3s are such a tragedy

[subtle depot]

Yeah modern armor isn’t technically “proof” to AR style weapons but you can still survive with some injury

[versed helm]

modern armor isnt bullet proof at all

[stoic hamlet]

An SRS would penetrate, but I doubt an MA5 or M392 would. If Marine Armour (as shown in Mona Lisa) can take a burst from an MA5 SPI definitely can

[versed helm]

also a brute can take a whole MA5 mag to the face and still fight for a little while

[subtle depot]

It is against most handheld weapons on a military level. The bullet will not penetrate your skin however the force will still fracture ribs and bruise you

[versed helm]

we see it, i forget in which book

only for a couple shots, then it fails, thats not bullet"proof" thats bullet"resistant"

bulletproof means it will hold up forever

[stoic hamlet]

Technically semantics

Nothing holds up forever

[subtle depot]

Yes I can see you’re point. It only works for one or two shots before needing replaced. Modern armor isn’t that durable

[versed helm]

titanium is the closest thing we have to bulletproof i think

which is what mjolnir is made of

[stoic hamlet]

Most UNSC armour are titanium plates IIRC

[versed helm]

which is pretty heavy

and yes i think you're correct

[stoic hamlet]

Well, we’re looking at 26th century metallurgy here

[subtle depot]

It could be a lighter alloy possibly. We need more technical details on halos gear

[versed helm]

they can’t make titanium lighter, hence why Mjolnir is so heavy

then it loses its durability

[subtle depot]

Well you can mix other things in.

[versed helm]

kinda like I ronman

[subtle depot]

It’s less durable but sometimes you have to make sacrifices I guess

[versed helm]

mixed titanium with gold

but i think Mjolnir is straight titanium

[stoic hamlet]

IIRC it’s a Titanium Nano-composite.

[versed helm]

because they don’t need to worry about the weight

[stoic hamlet]

Or something

[subtle depot]

Well yeah cause in mjolnir moving it isn’t an issue

[versed helm]

well, the black parts in Mjolnir are a titanium weave

by the joints

[subtle depot]

And the visor is some magic metal

[tropic basin]

not relating to this^

but whew i sparked a conversation about grunts

[gloomy condor]

uggnoy are best Covenant species change my mind

[tropic basin]

i cant

soo resiliant the entire unggoy home planet hade to be glassed

[gilded mason]

Just partially, actually.

[versed helm]

the visor is apparently made from like a sunglasses manufacturer that made them extremely resilient

[obsidian thistle]

Note VISRs are made by a wide range of manufacturers.

Source: Halo 4

[strong sage]

Do we have VISR like kind of tech in today’s modern times?

[modest marsh]

We have lesser forms of the technology implemented in VISR, but not in the same degree of performance or feasibility of application

There’s no such thing as an all encompassing, wideband electromagnetic and sonographic sensor system miniaturized to the extent it can be stored within a helmet, and retains a degree of accuracy to distinguish man sized targets through walls and at long range regardless of light levels and obstructions like smoke or debris

Like you need big machines to do individual things that VISR can, which are all consolidated into something that can comfortably sit on your face

[versed helm]

Grunts lore please

[modest marsh]

Honestly the jury’s still out on what motion tracking actually is

Because Ghosts of Onyx hints it has more to do with monitoring quantum states rather than using sound or light to detect movement

Of course the radar that displays on UNSC HUDs likely take into account all information it has access to, managed by the VISR OS no doubt

[last anchor]

Same as most other systems in MJLONIR

[versed helm]

If you ask me, a lot of motion tracker-like things we see on non-Spartan HUDs are probably not motion trackers.

Similiar interface, but they're probably just relaying information from IFF tags and battlenet identification and tracking to boost immediate tactical awareness.

In a non-Spartan capacity, motion trackers are probably very specialized equipment. The Mona Lisa (the short story, not the motion comic) seems to specify that ODSTs make use of it, which judging from Halo 3 ODST probably doesn't take the same form as a Spartan one.

So basically what Maggruber said.

But it should be said that, at least judging from TFoR, motion trackers are very far from as reliable as they are in-game. I believe at one point rain and the resultant foliage motion causes Blue Team's trackers to become unreadable - I want to say it was while they were infiltrating Cote d'Azur, but I'm bad with places from books.

Sangheili Ranking Structure: Minor, Officer/Major, Stealth Minor, Stealth Major, Ranger, Special Operations, Special Operations Officer, Special Operations Commander of the Covenant, Honor Guard, Honor Guard Ultra, Ultra, Zealot (Zealot covers Shipmaster, Fleet Master and Field master; the last two are equal in rank, but Shipmaster, however, is the lowest Zealot rank), General, Field Marshal, Supreme Commander, Imperial Admiral and Sangheili High Councilor.

[remote spruce]

Blue Team went underwater during the events of Halo 2, and motion trackers don't like that.

[lone girder]

Question: how does the spartan augmentation process work?

[unique rune]

That would depend on which SPARTAN program you're asking about.

[versed helm]

yeah

every iteration's vastly different

[unique rune]

SPARTAN-II was surgical procedures, S-III was chemical, and S-IV is a little bit of both (IIRC) with some... changes.

[versed helm]

S-III was both as well

S-IV was.......different

S-I was chemical

S-I and S-IV are the only really different ones

[versed helm]

I mean, the exact specifics of a lot of the Spartan program's techniques are left vague.

Quite simply because in real life scientists wouldn't even begin to approach doing it.

BUT

@lone girder You can find some fairly comprehensive lists of exactly what the individual augmentations entail in different media, compiled to Halopedia for your convenience.

https://www.halopedia.org/Project_ASTER

For SIIs

https://www.halopedia.org/Project_ORCHID

For SIVs

I think the differences between SII, SIII and SIV are pretty wildly overstated in general by elements of the community. It is very much the same basic process of implanting, with incremental advances in safety at the cost of perhaps a slight reduction in overall capability.

If anything, it would appear that the SIVs are even more heavily integrated with surgical procedures, with certain benefits that the SIIs lack (unless the SIIs have never just been stated to have them) while seemingly having less dramatic changes as far as overall body performance goes. Which, by the way, is absolutely insignificant - as long as a Spartan can safely use MJOLNIR, there's no reason why they wouldn't be on-par.

Hence, why people who say stuff like "Chief should've taken on all of Osiris" (looking at you, HaloFollower) REALLY lack a grounded lore understanding. The only real advantage Chief has is experience and luck, and while they're easily the most formidable advantages a soldier could have, those advantages would tend to manifest in avoiding a 1v4 fight with other Spartans rather than winning it.

For the SIIIs as well, if you're interested.

https://www.halopedia.org/Project_CHRYSANTHEMUM

So in general, the SIIs, IIIs and IVs are very, very similar in terms of "how their augmentation procedures work". All procedures require the participant to be conditioned - the SIIs and IIIs by Spartan boot, the SIVs by all being physically formidable adult soldiers already. Then, they go through a horrible series of implantation procedures, with generations being differentiated by slightly different implants that seem to have iteratively improving safety thresholds and implant methods but all have really the same general functions - I suspect that any mentions of "gene therapy" are predominately intended to imply that genetic tampering is done to increase the body's acceptance of the implants.

ORION, on the other hand, is a little more vague. Just seems to be toned-down Spartan implants, really.

https://www.halopedia.org/ORION_Project

[quartz willow]

Vood morning lore men and women

[versed helm]

Vood morning, comrade

[modest marsh]

Hence, why people who say stuff like "Chief should've taken on **all** of Osiris" (looking at you, HaloFollower) **REALLY** lack a grounded lore understanding. The only real advantage Chief has is experience and luck, and while they're easily the most formidable advantages a soldier could have, those advantages would tend to manifest in avoiding a 1v4 fight with other Spartans rather than winning it.

I disagree immensely, if only because for whatever reason Spartan IVs are too often characterized as incompetent stooges that make hair brained tactical decisions and are decidedly physically weaker than their Spartan II counterparts on a consistent basis to the extent they themselves flatout say so

Like this illustration of disparity between the two is plain as day from reading the material we have at this point

Compare how Buck, who is arguably among the best Spartan-IVs, is portrayed in Bad Blood

Contrast that to Spartan-IIs fairly early on in their career, such as in Silent Storm

Buck was confident he’d be gunned down by 3 unarmored Spartan trainees when it takes a full platoon of ODSTs to even land a hit on an individual Spartan-II reliably

[humble yacht]

Why is buck arguably the best Spartan-IV?

[modest marsh]

Among

Not the very best

[humble yacht]

Ok, among the best

where is that coming from?

[modest marsh]

Inferences based on the descriptions of his combat performance prior to being a Spartan

He’s a standout soldier in general

[humble yacht]

That could be said of all Spartan IVs

[modest marsh]

Really?

[humble yacht]

the reason they were chosen was because they were stand out

It's not like any volunteer got to be a Spartan IV

Musa and Jun were quite selective

[modest marsh]

What did Thorne or Vale do that hold a candle to Buck’s CV

[humble yacht]

We don't know because the lore hasn't delved into it

But that doesn't mean they don't have impressive feats in their history

I guess Vale has a little bit of lore history from one of the novels

[gloomy condor]

hunters in the dark

[versed helm]

@modest marsh Before saying anything else in response, I would like to pre-clarify that I'm not trying to get aggressive here or understate your knowledge as a Halo fan. What I do want to express, however, is that your opinion on this matter strikes me as really, really silly, if not a projection of what you merely want to be the case rather than anything that's actually supported.

The closest statement I could make in good conscience to what you said is "Spartan IVs are more complex and diverse than Spartan IIs." Calling them "incompetent stooges" is both not something that's substantiated at all and something that's at very clear odds with how 343 wants to portray the Spartan IVs. You say they're incompetent stooges, yet Palmer has been called a Mary Sue in terms of what she's personally achieved and Majestic is also clearly considered a very high-capability unit, with DeMarco himself in particular acquitting himself during Escalation.

Your comparison between Buck's situation - which, if memory serves, comes from Bad Blood, right? - and the early war S-IIs is, quite frankly, an atrociously picked one. Not only was Buck in a situation where he expressly did not want to deliver any harm at all to those he was up against, he was still up against Spartans and in a multi-faceted and complex tactical situation. Spartan IIs, on the other hand, have been given ample opportunities to display their raw prowess in uncomplicated us vs them situations, and as I said before, have the raw experience. But not only that, the depiction of the exploits of units like Crimson in Spartan Ops and Osiris in Halo 5 directly canonically contradict your inferrals.

[humble yacht]

I can't help but feel like disdain for Spartan IVs other than Buck is influenced by personal feelings towards the characters

[versed helm]

And let's not forget here that, y'know, it's well known that a Spartan's capabilities are severely reduced when they're on their own. In Silent Storm, Blue Team near-effortlessly clears out a Corvette - in The Flood, Chief is nearly killed by a pair of hunters. Buck was also on his own.

[humble yacht]

Alot of people like Buck, for good reason: he's played by a charming actor, he's been featured in Halo back when it was arguably a more popular franchise, and he's just all around a cool dude

I don't think any of those things make him more a Spartan IV than any other Spartan IV

[versed helm]

If you want an example of a notably outstanding Spartan IV, you're probably meant to be looking more at Locke, Thorne, or Palmer.

And let's tally it up - Locke literally almost beat Chief in hand-to-hand combat, which as silly as the cutscene was, is something that is well-supported by how Spartan IVs have been portrayed. Just because they're more human, doesn't mean they're weaker.

[humble yacht]

DeMarco was a crass individual at times and had foolish qualities to his personality, but he also sacrificed his life for others

He wasn't an incompetent stooge

he was a multidimensional character with flaws

[strong sage]

When buck learnt the true history of their predecessors the II’s did he and most of those odst that become spartan 4 changed their views on John and other Spartan II fam?

[humble yacht]

By their nature, Spartan IVs aren't going to be the stoic, no-nonsense soldiers that previous gen Spartans were, because Spartan-IVs lived actual lives that allowed them to develop as normal people with full ranges of emotions. It doesn't make them lesser; it just makes them different

[versed helm]

But I just want to clarify here that, when it comes to picking a "best" Spartan, I am and always will be a staunch John advocate - what can I say, I'm old school. He's clearly come up against the greatest odds, survived the worst, and he's got a great deal of charisma. But even from such a Chief-centric view, it is absolutely absurd to me that he could easily take on more than one other Spartan.

In MJOLNIR, no less.

Specifically talking about hand-to-hand combat.

[humble yacht]

"best" in the sense that he's probably the only Spartan who could accomplish everything he did. Essentially single handedly saving the galaxy

If it were Fred or Kurt instead, I think they would have died at some point

[versed helm]

From a realistic perspective, the biomechanics I don't think would make any sense. There would be no way for him to to retaliate without the second Spartan punching him across the room or locking him down.

Spartans are fast - crazy fast, and there's no indication that does not extend to Spartan IVs. It doesn't matter how experienced you are, you can't beat raw physics.

[humble yacht]

In a 2v1 situation against Osiris, all one of them would have had to do was create a small opening, and then Chief would have been armor-locked

Locke could have just clenched Chief and that would have been it

[versed helm]

But y'know, that doesn't mean Chief's not a match for all of Osiris in other ways. In a pinch, there's no doubt in my mind that he could've outmanoeuvred them, evaded them, or tricked them if he was pressed.

That probably would've been more compelling.

[humble yacht]

Ultimately his luck would probably get him out

Trying to flee Osiris? Lucky Warthog around the corner (just 1, too)

[versed helm]

But as it is, what we got was seemingly an emotionally wounded man taking an opportunity that was handed to him on a platter to work off some steam and send a message about his intentions.

Which was, all-in-all, not the best they could've gone with.

But it's vastly more coherent than "Chief beats down four Spartan IVs".

[humble yacht]

Agreed

There's a difference between what we may want to see and what makes sense to see.

It's fine if you would want to see Chief eviscerate 4 S-IVs with ease, but that wouldn't make sense.

on multiple levels

[versed helm]

And y'know, when Buck made his comment about gods and demigods and such in New Blood, is it not conceivable that he had something of a biased perspective? A few weeks ago he was a regular Marine. Do you think that a Spartan II would agree with that conceptualization, of being gods and so far above anything else to follow? Clearly the UNSC thought Osiris would be sufficient to match Blue Team all-up, and that's a good enough indication of what we're looking at.

And by regular Marine, I mean a Helljumper of course.

[humble yacht]

Buck is humble enough to recognize the differences between S-IIs and S-IVs but at the same time, biased from his history to still hold them in higher regard than himself

[modest marsh]

Yo I’m a bit busy atm so I’ll have to address these points later but I’ll try to keep up

[versed helm]

I was trying to accentuate his humanity and my words got jumbled.

[modest marsh]

But for instance

Buck singlehandedly killed two Hunters, as specified in New Blood

Point to a Spartan who can reliably do that that isn’t Master Chief

He’s clearly not intended to be a run of the mill “exceptional soldier”

[versed helm]

Assuming that logic holds, are you not now defeating yourself?

[humble yacht]

Buck has the relatively unique position of having a rather large spotlight pointed on his exploits at multiple points throughout his life.

Not many characters in Halo share this feature

If any Spartan-IV got as much of a spotlight on them, I'm sure comparable feats would be in their history

[strong sage]

So buck does change his image and views towards the IIs especially with chief

[humble yacht]

maybe not exactly as impressive, but there would be feats

[strong sage]

I remembered before going to uh meridian i think that buck’s concern that the whole unsc and others will hate them for hunting chief and blue team

[versed helm]

Well fighting hunters isn't always exactly the same feat. Engaging them from a distance with the element of surprise and superior weaponry is not the same as tangoing with them hand-to-hand

Which Chief almost gets killed doing twice in The Flood

[modest marsh]

Until that’s expressly the case why would we make assumptions about other characters

Of course Buck will be perceived better because he’s a main character

That’s generally how stories work

[humble yacht]

How did Buck those two hunters, btw?

[modest marsh]

Supposedly by shooting them in the back

[versed helm]

I don't think this method of anecdotal comparison really holds up, is what I'm trying to say

[humble yacht]

See, I like that you say "perceived better". That shows an acknowledgement that Buck being considered "among the best" is in part because we know so much about him

[versed helm]

It's best to focus on the baseline capabilities we know of from explicit lore and rationalize anecdotal examples around them.

But y'know. Dare at least thought Buck was the "best soldier" she knew.

Whatever that entails

[humble yacht]

Gonna go out on a limb and say she's biased

[modest marsh]

“If he were any better, he’d be a Spartan”

[versed helm]

Wasn't that from his firefight voice description in Reach?

[humble yacht]

I think so

I'm not sure how canonical that description is, but I do agree with it

[versed helm]

I mean, can we examine for a second what being a "good soldier" in this context entails

[modest marsh]

I don’t think it’s meant to be interpreted as literal

[versed helm]

Because it ain't health bars and DPS

[humble yacht]

In that same vein, though, it's not like Buck is the only one able to be described like that (pre-Spartan Buck, I mean)

[modest marsh]

However it does contextualize how we as the players are meant to perceive the character

[humble yacht]

I think that description could have been just as easily applied to Palmer

[modest marsh]

See

Let’s talk about Halo Initiation for a sec

ouch

Not the best introduction to IVs

[versed helm]

I get the feeling that you may be approaching this discussion from some notion of a "power-level" esque concept than raw practicality.

[humble yacht]

I don't see Initiation being a bad intro to the IVs

[modest marsh]

That first training exercise would be embarrassing if they were just regular special forces operators

[humble yacht]

It was a learning experience for Palmer

And a byproduct of Spartan-IVs being adults given a new power they'd never known before, as opposed to the S-IIs and IIIs who were children who grew up with those powers

It's like comparing Shazam to Superman

Also, that first exercise, it was 5 Spartans vs 50 marines. Palmer only won by being selfish

Or maybe it's apt to say, the other Spartans lost because she was selfish

Either way, she took it to heart and made sure never to act that way again

Nobody's arguing that S-IIs aren't better than S-IVs. That's a fact. But the contestation comes with how much better they are. Like, if you put a 1st dan black belt against a 10th dan, the 10th will win, but they'll still have to try. It's not going to be a OHKO

[modest marsh]

I didn’t suggest as much

Crud, this discussion is tough to keep moving since I keep getting interrupted

@versed helm addressing your initial response, I have nothing against IVs as characters and I’m actually speaking towards my disappointment in the Spartan Ops story arc in general

Which is the primary source of information on IVs and how they operate in the field

I of course mean the Escalation comics as well

Let’s take for example Majestic’s first onscreen engagement on Requiem

Hoya breaks cover to engage a small group of Crawlers and is quickly incapacitated due to his overconfidence

That’s just not really a satisfactory method of characterizing this elite super soldier as a competent and tactically minded person, and if they lack the physical power to stand up to relatively unimposing infantry threats, how do they hope to hold a candle to a given Spartan II who can engage entire companies of troops at once?

[fair hazel]

I'll let this picture speak

And knights are not unimposing

[carmine sleet]

Maggruber, I wouldn't say Hoya breaking cover to do that represents the entirety of how the S-IVs operate. Plus, you seem to conveniently leave out the fact that he was injured by a Knight, not Crawlers

[modest marsh]

I recall it being a crawler

[fair hazel]

It was not.

Your memory is not right.

[carmine sleet]

It was a Knight because they were ambushed by them and Hoya broke cover because another member of the team was injured

[fair hazel]

Also, you cite spartan ops... and then seem to forget all the other teams and Crimson achieved.

[quartz willow]

My favorite part of escalation is when the elite in the bar goes Hoork

[modest marsh]

@fair hazel alright so

[fair hazel]

Alright so,

[humble yacht]

oof

[modest marsh]

Jump kicking an elite is like the furthest thing from impressive on the scale of Spartans

[humble yacht]

can cut the tension with a knife

[quartz willow]

Hmm

[modest marsh]

Cut to Adriana launching an Elite 50 meters by running into it

[fair hazel]

And spartan-IIs and spartan-IVs are physically similar on par to each other so there you have it.

[modest marsh]

That same Elite from Escalation staggered and was bleeding from Lasky rifle butting it

And no they are not

[fair hazel]

in armour

[modest marsh]

You’re misinterpreting the meaning of that one quote from the game informer article

[humble yacht]

What quote would that be?

[modest marsh]

Paraphrasing, GEN2 armor makes up for the physical inferiority of their Spartan II counterparts

As in, it helps mitigate a handicap

That doesn’t mean the handicap is gone

When you consider the fact that MJOLNIR has always been described as increasing the innate physicality of the operator by a multiplicity, it doesn’t make sense for them all to be equal

Not to mention it’s contradicted by the game itself considering each character can have different physical traits and proficiencies

[humble yacht]

So according to Halopedia, Frankie said at a comic con that GEN2 armor enhances physical capabilities to a greater degree than GEN1

because S-IV augmentations are more modest than S-II augmentations

[modest marsh]

It would follow Spartan IIs benefit from a similar increase in power

[humble yacht]

What ericky was saying was that a GEN2 S-IV and a GEN1 S-II (in their respective armors) are about the same

GEN1 doesn't give as much of a boost as GEN2

[modest marsh]

Yes

But that’s irrelevant when the issue in question is how the two compare in equal conditions

[humble yacht]

what equal conditions?

[modest marsh]

Blue Team wear GEN2

[humble yacht]

ok

But they also weren't fighting to the death

also, nobody was saying that Chief wasn't stronger in that situation. All we're saying is that he would have needed to exert some effort, which he did

If anything, Locke was trying harder than Chief at first, likely because he went in knowing the difference in their strength

It's not like Locke getting in a few good licks means he almost beat Chief

[fair hazel]

It's been a topic of contention if gen 2 even boosts spartan-IIs as much as it does the IVs. Sure, it's better but, not saying spartan-IVs are better than the IIs. But they're still Spartans and stand physically and are capable.

[modest marsh]

That’s not the area of contention

[humble yacht]

what is, then, for you?

Cause I feel like something's been lost here

[modest marsh]

I certainly believe that given the information we currently have available, I don’t think it’s anywhere near misleading to suggest a Spartan-II, Master Chief no less, would stand a formidable threat to a fireteam of Spartan-IVs, even Osiris, due to a huge advantage in physical power, reflexes, and combat skills they would logically and empirically lack

[fair hazel]

If it was Linda, ok. But it's john

And yes it is, I believe there's been discussion with toa freak even on this subject. Somewhere

contention

"a huge advantage in physical power, " And we already went over this.

[humble yacht]

Yeah, I don't think the physical advantage IIs have is as huge as you're suggesting, Gruber

it's there, for sure, but it's not like a heavyweight vs a featherweight

[fair hazel]

It's the 8th, so all Lone Wolf discussion is able to be here I believe

[modest marsh]

Why not

What’s special about Linda in this regard?

[fair hazel]

Yep, alright.

Why not? Because we have the spoiler rule..

[modest marsh]

No not that

Your earlier comment

[fair hazel]

Linda, she's the Spartan that I would say could take out the most Spartans.

[humble yacht]

I think ericky was talking about how its been established that John is not the best at hand-to-hand amongst the S-IIs

[modest marsh]

Why Linda

[fair hazel]

Her combined abilities, and in training, we've seen her beat Fred and Kelly without being hit.

Her feats.

[modest marsh]

That’s because of the velocity of her rifle

Kelly mentions this

Spartans can dodge most small arms fire

[carmine sleet]

Linda, being a sniper, would see the bigger picture and likely use that to her advantage

[fair hazel]

She just said, twice with that rifle, not, your rifle is faster.

[upper star]

Sorry just got on, are we debating Linda ability as a Spartan or sniper?

[fair hazel]

Anyways, I also do mean with Linda Being ready

[upper star]

Also to @modest marsh it isn't really that Spartans can dodge small arms, it's more due to their training and reflexes they can maximise cover, and quickly and aggressively put down threats

[humble yacht]

"being ready" as in having prepared for the fight?

[fair hazel]

As opposed to bieng teleported in a room with target spartans and engaging at that time.

[humble yacht]

So Linda is like Batman in that with prep time she can beat anyone?

[fair hazel]

hehe

In a more, ok this is the area of engagement, you start here, they start there. Performance might depend on what type of environment is offered too.

She also has very good control over her thrusters.

[humble yacht]

I thought Fred was heralded as the best S-II at hand-to-hand, though

how did Linda beat him without being hit?

unless it wasn't fisticuffs

[fair hazel]

She dodged his fire and shot him.

[humble yacht]

ah, that makes sense

well, if you swap Chief with Linda in the fight against Locke, there's no telling how she would have fared since it wasn't a firefight, and they were right in each other's faces

[fair hazel]

There yeah

[humble yacht]

She may be the quietest spartan but that doesn't really help when the enemy is looking right at you

[fair hazel]

There Fred or Kelly might have the upper hand, probably Kelly.

She's faster

[humble yacht]

maybe, if her goal was to just not get tagged by the armor lock

[versed helm]

@fair hazel I saw your thing you posted on twitter! it was so good!

[fair hazel]

Also the fred knives thing? it was more like, a single mention of something knife related and halo legends him fighting with knives, then the community was like, he's the best with knives! and 343 going with it

Thank you Olive!

[versed helm]

Someone from Xbox reposted it, and it looks so good

[humble yacht]

I thought there was somewhere that said that Fred was the strongest spartan or something like that

I didn't know about the knife thing

[fair hazel]

Second best marksman

Someone from xbox?

[versed helm]

In first strike in the beggining it mentions knifes

yea

[fair hazel]

Twirling knife on his hand or something like that

[humble yacht]

was any Spartan-II ever labeled as the strongest (like how Kelly was the fastest)?

[versed helm]

It was john erick

[fair hazel]

Ah, uny

[humble yacht]

Uny's with 343, not Xbox

[fair hazel]

Linda best sniper pretty sure

What other Johns?

[humble yacht]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[versed helm]

i meant 343 lmao

Jun is a decent sniper

not compared to linda though

[fair hazel]

As if anyone could.

You might be able to tell my favourite spartan is Linda

[versed helm]

could john?

[humble yacht]

tbf I don't think we have as much coverage of Jun's exploits as a sniper as we do with Linda

[fair hazel]

No

[humble yacht]

I think calling Jun "decent" is a disservice

to his sniping prowess

[versed helm]

i mean compared to linda

obviously he can do amazing feats with a sniper, and he survived reach

[humble yacht]

That's like saying any Olympian who competes but doesn't medal is "decent"

[fair hazel]

I like the idea of Jun climbing a space elevator to escape reach

[versed helm]

not the cheap halsey exit

[fair hazel]

cheap halsey exit?

[versed helm]

i would rather have jun climb the space elevator

100%

but, we dont see jun do anything remarkable in Reach sniper wise compared to Linda, he just doesnt have as good of feats as linda

my favorite spartan is Jerome btw 😃

[humble yacht]

well there's always room to write in new feats for Jun

or any Spartan, really

[versed helm]

that is true, has he been in any books but new blood and bad blood?

[stoic hamlet]

Fred isn’t the second best Spartan sniper anymore

He’s the second best Spartan II sniper

But he admits Mark-G313 is a better marksman.

[full forge]

Gamma company is wild.

[stoic hamlet]

Gamma is best

[full forge]

Smoothers seem like a major problem.

[stoic hamlet]

Not as much as people would assume

IMO Last Light had the smoothers be an issue purely for plot but not a logical reason

[full forge]

Especially when Mark puts a knife to an Aussie marine's throat.

Oh?

[stoic hamlet]

Well, we’ve had the Gammas in situations where they’ve been missing their smoothers for days on end and they never went psycho, or how there are actual implants you can put into the skin that seem to last for weeks at the very least.

That Last Light has them use pills that only last a few hours in a close quarters cave system where it could take hours to get out seems......really dumb

[terse gale]

Just got to the cutscene in HW2 where Isabelle glasses a bunch of Covenant, lol

[stoic hamlet]

There are a few reason they might not have had the implants (or been returned to the rest of Gamma) but that Last Light never gives us a reason implies that Fred assumed the Smoother pills were the best option and that Tom and Lucy agreed, which I can’t see in the slightest.

[terse gale]

Also, why on earth did the Sentinels decide to cut the ship in half by ramming it, Sentinels have hell OP lasers when large groups of them combine fire. Pretty sure huge groups of Sentinels were lasering Covenant ships in Ghosts of Onyx

[stoic hamlet]

They’re different sentinels @terse gale

[gloomy condor]

those were onyx sentinels in Ghosts of onyx, different than normal sentinels

more powerful

[terse gale]

Why must Spartans always jump off of ships, lol

[modest marsh]

@upper star the same page John wears MJOLNIR for the first time, he dodges bullets

@fair hazel context clues are key

Linda is a sniper

She deftly defeated her teammates by using her specific advantages

[keen brook]

Arguably the best sniper in the UNSC

Besides Jun who was a headhunter

[stoic hamlet]

She’s he best

[keen brook]

Headhunters were pretty crazy too.

[stoic hamlet]

Mark is second,, seemingly

They weren’t all snipers

[keen brook]

I know

But Jun was

And since they were kind of the best of the best 3's

[stoic hamlet]

But out of the four we know about he’s the only sniper

[keen brook]

Yeah I know, I'm just saying Jun was pretty good too

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah

[keen brook]

Upside down

By a wire

I'd say she's probably the best still

😛

[humble yacht]

@keen brook reminder not to use clever alternate spellings/misspellings to bypass the profanity filter

[keen brook]

You know I didn't know that

Sorry

[upper star]

@modest marsh I would say that is more for dramatic effect to be honest, but agree to disagree

[modest marsh]

Dramatic effect?

The purpose of the scene is establishing the abilities of the characters

[terse gale]

Chief vs Atriox would be interesting, lol

[versed helm]

it would end just like red team

[gilded mason]

They're about to face each other, but then they both trip and fall into pits.

[quartz willow]

Oof

[terse gale]

I think Atriox might be the only person in the galaxy as stubborn and relentless as John, lol

[gilded mason]

I imagine there are many with his determination.

[versed helm]

if those 3 spartan's weren't able to, even when later jerome faces all those brutes alone, then chief most likely cant either

Atriox just hates the covenant, he doesnt have anything against humanity, we see many times in the campaign that Atriox gives the humans a chance to leave

necessarily

[gilded mason]

we see many times in the campaign that Atriox gives the humans a chance to leave
Those humans, at least. He wasn't as 'merciful' for other humans he encountered. I also wonder if he knew that escape for them was impossible.

[terse gale]

Atriox is a stronk and smart Brute but John kinda wrestles Forerunners in his spare time

[gilded mason]

but John kinda wrestles Forerunners in his spare time
wut

[versed helm]

he wouldn't be able to defeat atriox by himself

[terse gale]

@gilded mason Prometheans, Didact, Warden, etc

[versed helm]

he wasnt alone for warden

chief was immobilized for didact, cortana helped him

[gilded mason]

Wasn't he basically no match for Didact outside of help from allies?

And Prometheans seem to be pretty - I don't want to say weak, but they aren't exactly top-tier strength.

[terse gale]

John has been fighting basically everything under the sun, including the Flood, for quite a long time. I'm not saying the fight would be easy but I think he'd beat Atriox in the end

I'd definitely pay to watch it, lol

[versed helm]

I’d definitely play to watch it

[stoic hamlet]

Reminder that Atriox v Red Team fight is dumb and doesn’t follow established lore

[carmine sleet]

How does it not follow established lore?

[terse gale]

Cuz for half of it they stand there and shoot at him with pistols, lol

[versed helm]

They dont "stand" there at all?

Everything that happened was viable

also they all just got our of cryo not long ago, so they aren't extremely ready to face a brute who does all that

[keen brook]

They weren't 3's first off. They were 2's

Second yeah Chief wouldn't have a good time either. Chief is the best spartan ever (arguably besides noble 6)

But he probably couldn't do what 3 other spartans couldn't do in combat against Atriox

[versed helm]

who said they were 3s?

[keen brook]

Sorry Im tired

it looked like you said spartan 3s

[versed helm]

and only jerome shot with a pistol, then got thrown

[keen brook]

Yeah what bothered me was

They had guns

Why did they keep running toward him

😛

[versed helm]

you know a brute can take a whole MA5 AR mag to the face and still fight, right?

[carmine sleet]

To try and take him down quickly by stabbing him in the vital organs. They didn't know his armour was stab-proof

[keen brook]

Nah they got a stab in him

[versed helm]

and they didn't know atriox is unlike other brutes

[keen brook]

But it was like

a little pin

Compared to atriox

😛

[carmine sleet]

They stabbed him but the blade didn't go through the armour

[keen brook]

Debatable I'll look at the fight massacre in a bit

But yeah

Chief probably couldn't

[versed helm]

if red team couldn't, one spartan can't

js

[keen brook]

Also Atriox was trained to kill spartans.

He was special ops for brutes

[carmine sleet]

Atriox wasn't trained to kill Spartans, he was very much the opposite of spec ops

[versed helm]

i've never heard that in my life

[keen brook]

Look up the bloodstars.

[carmine sleet]

He and his clanmates were sent into battle to die

[versed helm]

^^

[keen brook]

I know

I saw that

Go though

And look up the bloodstars.

They were special ops brutes trained to kill spartans.

[carmine sleet]

I see nothing about them being trained to kill Spartans

[keen brook]

Well they were and were special ops.

Anyway

[carmine sleet]

Not to mention the fact that Atriox, as shown in his comic series and in Halo Wars 2, was never deployed as a spec ops unit, he was mainly on the frontline

[keen brook]

he was one of them

[versed helm]

they have fought spartans, but werent trained for it

[keen brook]

They were trained for special ops and that meant dealing with spartans

Look point is

He's really well trained.

[feral perch]

He's referring to a passage in Halo: Retribution

[gilded mason]

Just looked up the relevant passage in Retribution, he's got a point, it seems.
As young warriors, Castor and Orsun had been part of the Bloodstars, a special band of stalkers charged with hunting down the demon Spartans. Their leader had been a member of the Sangheili Silent Shadow, a First Blade of exceptional skill and devotion who had once led Castor, Orsun, and their war-brother Atriox on a raid that resulted in the capture of an entire squad of Orbital Drop Shock Troopers.

[versed helm]

hm, interesting, i've never read Retribution

[feral perch]

The Rise of Atriox doesn't mention it, though, not does Silent Storm

[keen brook]

Thanks

[vivid dust]

https://www.halopedia.org/Bloodstars

[keen brook]

^

[vivid dust]

I had no idea this existed

[versed helm]

no idea what existed?

[keen brook]

Yeah it's pretty cool.

Bloodstars

But yeah. Bloodstars were essentially special ops brutes that were trained for it and they were in command under the silent shadow, basically the same deal only for elites.

And the silent shadow was actually recruited by Atriox into the banished after the schism when they went after him 😛

So

Yeah

Fun stuff.

[versed helm]

still, chief wouldn't be able to kill atriox by himself, maybe blue team all together

[keen brook]

Blue Team I bet could

Well they have better chances.

For one it's 4v1

That'd be cool

[vivid dust]

still wondering if Atriox is going to have any sort of role in Infinite

[versed helm]

no

very improbable

[keen brook]

I think Wars is always gonna be a separate story

[versed helm]

^^

[keen brook]

Unless they go to the ark for some reason.

Which probably won't happen.

So no

[versed helm]

they may make contact with Anders

[keen brook]

-_-

[versed helm]

i would love seeing jerome in the main storyline though!

improbable though

[keen brook]

I wanna see Jerome and Chief reunite

[carmine sleet]

I feel like the Ark could be a good place to end the current story, adds some nice symbolism. Not to mention it's a great location to rule the galaxy from

[versed helm]

red team and blue team reunite

[keen brook]

Well

That and it's shown they're on a ring.

[gilded mason]

I feel like the Ark could be a good place to end the current story
That would kinda be a retread, wouldn't it?

[keen brook]

In infinite

Also they did that already

in 3

:/

[carmine sleet]

I mean, like I said, some nice symbolism since it would mirror Halo 3

[keen brook]

Yeah I feel that

[gilded mason]

I don't see any reason for it to mirror 3.

[versed helm]

did 343 make hw1?

[gilded mason]

No

[keen brook]

Yeah

Yeaaaaa

[gilded mason]

Really?

[carmine sleet]

Plus we only explored a small part of it in Halo 3, sure we see more in Halo Wars 2 but I feel like it could really be a cool location to visit again

[keen brook]

I'm pretty sure one sec.

[vivid dust]

I'd rather see Infinite stay focused on the Created mess tbh

[carmine sleet]

Also, 343i did not make Halo Wars 1

[vivid dust]

also no HW1 was Bungie and Ensemble Studios

[gilded mason]

Yeah, that's what I figured

[keen brook]

Wait no

[carmine sleet]

@vivid dust It could still stay focused on the Created and take us to the Ark

[keen brook]

Yeah

Halo wars TWO

was 343

First one wasn't

[versed helm]

blur and 343

obv also hw1

for blur

[vivid dust]

let me rephrase

actually no I don't really care that much honestly

[gilded mason]

lol

[keen brook]

They need to distance themself from the created thing

From H5 in general.

[versed helm]

could there be a hw3 in the future? or is hw done?

[vivid dust]

They need to wrap it up

[fair hazel]

No...

[keen brook]

Fight me

Jk

[vivid dust]

as much as I dislike H5's story I don't want to see it thrown out of the window entirely

[versed helm]

he will win

[keen brook]

Ok I don't mean entirely.

But

Diverge a bit from it.

Or at least make it better.

[gilded mason]

I just wish they never went in the Created route in the first place, since now they have to do something with it.

[vivid dust]

also I think there were plans for a HW3 but they were scrapped?

[keen brook]

The writer for H5 got fired/quit anyway so

That's a step in a good direction.,

[fair hazel]

Don't spread misinformation, and there is more than one single person who directs the direction of the story...

[versed helm]

^^

[gilded mason]

Though it was still agreed upon in the studio collectively, I would assume

[keen brook]

The main guy.

[gilded mason]

Yeah, that

[keen brook]

Not ALL the writers but the head dude doing it.

Brian

[fair hazel]

Make it better =/= distance themselves

[keen brook]

I think was his name.

Rephrase. Either make the created thing better

or

distance themselves from it

[fair hazel]

Only one logical choice there, make it better, continue it

[keen brook]

I guess we'll see

If they bomb it they're screwed

Because fans including myself will take up arms at the 343 building

[versed helm]

lets talk about my favorite topic! because its very interesting

[fair hazel]

And you'd get arrested..

[keen brook]

Worth it

[vivid dust]

you would

[versed helm]

if they found a way to make Hardlight malleable, should it replace energy shields?

[keen brook]

Ooooooooh

[versed helm]

and it is possible

[keen brook]

I mean..........................................

[versed helm]

forerunners have done it

[keen brook]

They could reverse engineer forerunner tech

And make stronger shields

Hardlight though is different I think. They used it as weaponry

It's hard

I dunno it'd be cool but

Yeah

Armor would be more likely

Also cool

[versed helm]

Prelate Tem'Bhetek's, a san' shyuum had hardlight gaunlets

[keen brook]

He was cool

He did have forerunner tech

[gilded mason]

Uh

[versed helm]

Hard light im pretty sure is more durable than energy shields

[keen brook]

Oh

And no

[gilded mason]

Prelate Tem'Bhetek's, a sangheili
Ye mean a san'shyuum?

[keen brook]

He wasn't an elier

t

Yeah

He was from the prophets race

[versed helm]

yes yes, sorry

[keen brook]

😛

He looks like one to be fair.

Yeah though. They could take on Spartan 2s

Head to head

So if they did that to upgrade spartans

whewwwww

[versed helm]

they had HARDLIGHT, i think that changes their durability immensly

[keen brook]

Among other things I'm sure

Sii

Yeah he even took on Ras Vadum

Rtas

Whatever he was

Which is pretty cool

So

It'd be crazy if humans did that too

[gilded mason]

No thank you lol

[keen brook]

Hardlight John

😛

I wish we could just retcon what they did with cortana

[versed helm]

but i think that the hard-light convo is really intriguing

[keen brook]

It is

Imagine what else you could do

With hardlight

CIA

You've been lurking here for like 10 mins

😛

[versed helm]

hes a mod, he can

[keen brook]

He starts typing

o_O

Show yourself

But yeah

[fair hazel]

Huh

MOds can do what now

[keen brook]

Lurk

[obsidian thistle]

I lurk cause lore chat. And I be a wiki guy.

[keen brook]

Isee

[versed helm]

I randomly came across your page on halopedia the other day @obsidian thistle. Unsure how it happened

[obsidian thistle]

You probs stumbled across it on the wiki xD

[versed helm]

I just said I did that, silly

[keen brook]

SILLY

[versed helm]

Y'know, going forwards into future Halo Wars games (if they happen, which I hope they do), I personally would like to see UNSC infantry represented more as a highly varied selection of fireteam types - not that it's not cool having so many distinct units like hellbringers and cyclops, but I think it'd be potentially cooler to have, y'know.

Your standard Marine unit would be a representation of, say, what the Halo Encyclopedia terms as light infantry. They'd be basically unchanged - just a bunch of dudes with assault rifles, grenades, and a few jackhammer tubes.

But in addition to them, you could have a later-game heavy infantry fireteam, also terminology from the Halo Encyclopedia. These dude and dudettes would be tougher, armed with things like shotguns and railguns and SAWs. Maybe if you put them in cover, they'd get a special bonus where they set up a machine gun emplacement.

Instead of the individual sniper, you could have something similar to the recon team out of Ground Command - a four man team with two sniper rifles, maybe, and sick camo-netting, plus the awesome HW2 spotter drone.

And extrapolating from other sources of the lore, it's likely that Combat Engineer teams would exist (going off Prototype) who maybe would only have SMGs but could throw satchel charges and repair. Space Assault units are also clearly a thing (from the Halo Encyclopedia, but also the Black Daggers from Silent Storm) but I'm guessing they'd likely just be heavy infantry, but in space.

But I'm guessing so many different types of nuanced unit would be kinda hard to fit into Halo Wars' current style of micro.

[ashen wharf]

Hmmm

That would be interesting @versed helm

They could expand on it with different types of warthogs

Normal machine gun one would be scouts while troops carrier ones could pick up and carry ground troops.

And gauss hogs for anti-vehicles

[versed helm]

Personally, despite being a Halo fan first-and-foremost, I do have a bit of a history with the fairly hardcore PC RTS crowd - my jam is really complex, faction-differentiating mechanics. I think the optimal case of affairs for me is that you build warthogs flatbed, and then refit them with like a field armoury building.

That'd be pretty close to how it'd work canonically.

Of course, not only would that introduce many layers of micro, but you'd also have to revamp how bases work. Maybe into something more Command and Conquer-esque.

[ashen wharf]

Ok not really into rts games besides halo wars 2 . Makes sense though

[versed helm]

I've also always thought the capabilities of Pelicans are really under-represented in Halo Wars. Aside from the awesome pelican gunship stuff in HW2, their varied capabilities aren't really represented.

[ashen wharf]

ya

But that would be hard to pull of in a halo wars style game.

[versed helm]

I think it'd be really sick if you had, like, an off-map hangar - at the start of the game, you have one un-armed pelican in dropship configuration which you can call in for transport. As your tech level advances, you get access to more and more, but also the ability to reconfigure it. Give them a chin-gun and rocket-pods to give them fire support capability, or go full-gunship with them, or add an expanded transport bay.

That, at least, might be easier to do with the command wheel functionality.

I'm thinking that in essence it'd be kinda similar to the DoW 3 Space Marine drop pod mechanic, but more expansive.

[ashen wharf]

Maybe as a leader power a pelicans could drop heavy weapons to troops and buff there damage. Or customize how they play. Shotguns for buffed close range or snipers for buffed long range for examples.

What you said could maybe work though.

[versed helm]

I think you'd almost certainly need to use mouse and keyboard for that sort of complexity.

[ashen wharf]

lol I know right.

But I make do with what I have.

Ohhhhhhh lol I am a idiot, you were talking about the game.

🤦‍♂️

Thought for second talking about typing on a phone.... I = stupid.

[versed helm]

Happens to the best of us XD

[ashen wharf]

Lol

Did you see warden the bot freaking out the other day?

If not nvrm

Went crazy muting some one in general discussion took up whole chat board.

Mods had to stop it

Everyone was making memes about it.

[versed helm]

I can imagine the Created memes.

[ashen wharf]

In chat

😂

So many created,rampant, and logic plague memes.

[versed helm]

One thing I will say about Halo Wars 2, though, is that the design of the regular Marines is awesome.

I just wish they had goggles so they could conceivably have a HUD, and thus, use their rifles effectively xD

But I'd very much like that to set the template for postwar Marine designs going forward. Not that that seems to be what's going to happen, though, given the Infinite trailer.

Bit of a shame, if you ask me.

[feral perch]

The Infinite Marines look like Reach ones

[versed helm]

I mean, I do like the Reach design. I truly do.

But I do feel like the UNSC should be moving on. That's why I was content with the Halo 4 looks.

Of course, I'll accept most anything the more practical it is.

Tbh the Halo 2 classic design approaches perfection

[ashen wharf]

In my opinion cea design is best. Looks really good in my opinion. And practical cause multiple pockets, a back back, decent protection, and hud.

[feral perch]

It looked like heavy cardboard imo

[versed helm]

The reason futuristic body armour might have a plasticky or cardboard-like outer exterior is that it would need a soft outer coating to prevent ballistic richochet and contain fragmentation and spalling.

Some newer high-end ballistic chestplates have something very similar.

Though if you ask me, everything wrong with Halo 4's Marines is down to their coloration and the slightly odd-looking way metallic stuff is textured in Halo 4.

It's almost a little chalky at times.

The CEA Marines, on the other hand, have some slightly dodgy pauldron decals

But other than that they're cool xD

But that's just because they're Reach-style.

Which is arguably even cooler because of its greater degree of variety.

[remote spruce]

I like how in CE the armored marines have higher damage resistance (it doesn't mean much in Legendary but still)

[keen brook]

Halo 4 was made by different people in different ways. Bungie would've probably done something different though they would've done it in a different way. Probably better. Looking newer is a good idea but I think it could've been handled better.

I dunno who thought making a unicorn helmet was a good idea though but they actually pulled it off so

Props to that.

[quartz willow]

Fotus actually looked pretty nice in halo 4 and yea whoever made it kinda made it like bungie's recon where everyone wanted jt

[versed helm]

Y'know, I think I've been underestimating humanity's degree of gravity-control in Halo

For whatever reason, it's never evident in the games

But TFoR had grav-ball as a sport and floating statues popped up in one of the books featuring Keyes.

And Battle Born, which I finally forced myself to start, says that Uncle Max couldn't afford a car with "gravity compensators".

Obviously frigates floating in-atmosphere is a demonstration of gravitic assist, and the pelican is explicitly so. But I feel like, I dunno. There should be more evident military usages.

That said, pretty easy now to explain the ARC railgun being recoilless by designation, though 343 seems to be trying to retcon it into being some kind of coilgun which would (I think) have a dampened recoil-muzzle velocity ratio.

My point is, if it is recoilless and actually still a railgun, they could just say it uses gravity compensator systems too xD

[keen brook]

I didn't follow a word you just said

[stoic hamlet]

Regarding the Marine discussion from earlier, I stand by that he Reach Marines are the best depiction of the Marine Corps in any game from a practical standpoint.

And no, I don’t mean the Army Troopers, but the Marines encountered for a single level

[keen brook]

One thing I never liked about the marines in the other halo games like Halo Combat Evolved

Is that they were always like

Kind

a

scared

It seemed like

[cerulean sand]

reach marines looked thick

[keen brook]

ODST were awesome

[cerulean sand]

ODST are awesome, i love the way the drop pods looked

[stoic hamlet]

http://www.halopedia.org/images/d/dd/Reach_UNSC_Marine.png

[keen brook]

Yeah and THEY

were tough

[stoic hamlet]

Literally the best armour right there

[keen brook]

I like the mission where they jump with you and fight the brutes

And yeah that does look good

I like the helmet

[stoic hamlet]

And I’ve no idea why the Marines are wearing Army Trooper armour in Infinite, makes no sense,

They should be wearing the above link

[keen brook]

Eh

Could be worse

They need to give ODST more love though

In the other games I know they made a whole game about ODST

[remote spruce]

Some have claimed that armor is based off of Halo 4 armor

[stoic hamlet]

It doesn’t look like it

It looks more Reach Army Trooper to me

[remote spruce]

Yea, but apparently 343i have told some people otherwise

I don't even know at this point, I'll just assume they used a few Halo 4 assets ported over from Reach

[meager torrent]

Okay so this made seem extremely arbitrary but i’ve actually had this question for a while

[cerulean sand]

@meager torrent shoot

[humble yacht]

:/

really

that's your question?

[meager torrent]

Yea I’ve had this on my mind for a little bit actually

[humble yacht]

Flood spreads by turning other biomass into Flood

[meager torrent]

It may seem like a silly question but with how the flood transform its host, it’s possible that reproductive organs could still remain and function

[humble yacht]

:/

No

[clever fable]

That's gonna be a :/ from me dawg

[meager torrent]

Oh okay lol

Imma take it as a no then

Well thanks for the insight

[mystic hill]

oh, i needed that cleared up as well

[versed helm]

Weirdo

[meager torrent]

Hey, please keep this to civilized conversation

Just because my question seemed a bit strange doesn’t warrant me being called a weirdo

Anyways, why are there enforcers in Halo 2 and only Halo 2?

[keen brook]

OK lemme tell you

Step into my classroom for a bit

[meager torrent]

Of course

[keen brook]

Basically the little flood infection forms that latch onto peoples necks and their little tentacles basically go into the persons nervous system

Then

They give infection floody stuff

The person or alien or whatever goes under intense cellular mutation and grows many things in its body

Whoever is deleting my messages

Really

[humble yacht]

We've moved on

[keen brook]

Ok I dont care Im answering his question

He wanted to know

[unique rune]

Enforcers likely only appear in Halo 2 due to how far the Flood infestation had progressed. Most other games we just deal with localized, rapidly contained incidents, compared to I05 where it had gotten far enough that a Gravemind could be formed.

[keen brook]

Censor king over here

Anyway in summation they get in the system infect the person and everything gets mutated

The end

[quartz willow]

But on Alpha Halo in CE the ring in the control room is red where The outbreaks are occurring so if we can say that Enforcers only appear during severe outbreaks than why werent they in any halo media on alpha halo when by that point it is even stated by the monitor the outbreak has grown severe

So I'd be willing to bet they appear in area that need to be guarded against the flood such as the area before the library in halo 2

[unique rune]

Might not have been considered severe enough.

I04's outbreak began the formation of a proto-Gravemind, but never progressed to a proper Gravemind.

Not to mention that I05's was a much longer outbreak, suggesting that Enforcers may have been deployed at an earlier point.

[humble yacht]

Enforcers were only in the Quarantine Zone, anyway

[unique rune]

I04's had only been going on for a few days.

[humble yacht]

probably due to the fact that the Zone contained that Installation's Library

[quartz willow]

Yes

That's what I'm getting at

[unique rune]

That's fair.

[quartz willow]

If a zone on the installations are of vital importance and flood are nearing them that's probably when the Enforcers are deployed

[unique rune]

We all know the real reason is that Bungie hadn't come up with Enforcers for Halo CE though

[quartz willow]

Yea

Really

But if they had I doubt they still would have been in gameplau

Play

Also werent there supposed to be super sentinels in halo 2

Not like the halo wars 1 version

But a diffrent type of them

?

[unique rune]

That sounds vaguely familiar but I might be getting it mixed up with something else.

[quartz willow]

I remember a old video by halo follower before they went clickbait it was back in 15 or 14 I saw it

[unique rune]

Maybe you're thinking of the Forerunner Tank that was cut from H2?

[quartz willow]

Nah I'm pretty sure it was a super sentinel of sorts

[autumn urchin]

Does johnson have any sons/daughters

[humble yacht]

not that we know of