So forerunners are well known
#lore-and-universe
viscid sphinx
quartz willow
Yes
viscid sphinx
even during the halo wars era
heady quest
spacecaveman
viscid sphinx
makes the entirety of halo 1 weird in retrospect
"What is this, who could have made it, is it ancient covenant?"
quartz willow
Just not the flood if you were in charge of what gets to be seen by the general population would you want them to know about a galaxy devouring space paras6
versed helm
I'm not sure about the HW1 thing.
The comic, that is.
Easy to check, though. So I will.
versed helm
That's a negative.
Anders was not talking about Forerunners. @carmine sleet @quartz willow
And also a negative on ancient humanity, probably.
Well, she kinda is.
She's talking about geological scans of Cote' D Azure, Bliss and Onyx
Probably a sorta update on continuing investigations. Investigations that ceased to be public knowledge with the HCW happening.
Fresh stuff, I'm guessing. Prior to any attempt at excavation.
So no, Forerunners weren't common knowledge prior to 2552.
versed helm
Well ONI isn't the general populace
quartz willow
@versed helm well @viscid sphinx was asking ONI and UNSC Highcom know about them but that's generally it
versed helm
Was he?
versed helm
👌
quartz willow
No civilians sadly do not know about ancient humanity and most likely never will @viscid sphinx
quartz willow
The description of the HellCat armor is as follows
Helmet description: Tests with Spartan-II veterans show near-perfect synchronization with HELLCAT armor, but compatible Spartan-IV operators require an acclimatization period and tweaks to their augmentation maintenance before deployment.
Body description: Built of knowledge stolen from enigmatic ruins on a dead world and materials stripped from the vault of a shattered starship, the HELLCAT is both utterly alien and strangely familiar.
viral flint
I love hell cat
versed helm
whats the lore discussion today?
winter swan
what hasn't been discussed
quartz willow
Well I was continuing the discussion from last night on how much the modern halo universe knows about ancient humanity
Which we know ONI and The UNSC do due to the Hell cats armors design and its armors description @versed helm
versed helm
ONI definitely does know about the ancient humans, probably not a lot because not even we know a lot, but they know about how strong they were and stuff like that, i feel the rest of the world (including the UNSC) may possibly only know them as a myth, or know them a little due to what ONI has released
and as the description says, they may know that it’s not forerunner, or covenant, or precursor, but may not know it’s actually “Ancient Human”
quartz willow
The Hellcats description is a very ominous but cool description and what's cool is unlike other armors variants the hellcats armor description never changes @versed helm
versed helm
have you tried Halopedia? maybe they know
quartz willow
I did that's where I got the description of the armor and helmet but they dont have much on whether they do or not or maybe I just suck at typing keywords
quartz willow
Yea but since we know a little about the forerunner human war than I bet ONI knows a little
quartz willow
Well we know that the ship they found the hellcat armor design on obviously wasnt forerunner since forerunners and ancient humans have completely different desgins
versed helm
are ancient humans tier 1?
onyx cape
Someone requested lore assistance
quartz willow
They were never completely wiped out after the forerunner human war the forerunners reverted ancient humanity back to a tribal state and sent them back to their homeworld earth @versed helm
versed helm
we were continuing the discussion from last night about how much the modern halo universe knows about ancient humanity
Which we know ONI and The UNSC do due to the Hell cats armors design and its armors description
but about what/ how much they may know
onyx cape
Well, a fair bit I would imagine. At least we much as we the players know.
They know of the war and of the devolution.
quartz willow
Probably less
But does ONI know of the human flood war and if so is that what terrifies them about the flood
onyx cape
Yes, less is true now that I think about it. But not by much.
They are unaware of geas as well.
versed helm
does the UNSC and regular humans know? or only ONI?
onyx cape
Probably oni and need to know in UNSC.
quartz willow
How the flood purposely acted like humanity
Had cured them got stronger than returned and almost consumed the galaxy. and also what is geas
onyx cape
And without spoiling renegades, a few civilians.
quartz willow
Because of something forerunner
onyx cape
Something indeed
versed helm
Helmet description: Tests with Spartan-II veterans show near-perfect synchronization with HELLCAT armor, but compatible Spartan-IV operators require an acclimatization period and tweaks to their augmentation maintenance before deployment.
Body description: Built of knowledge stolen from enigmatic ruins on a dead world and materials stripped from the vault of a shattered starship, the HELLCAT is both utterly alien and strangely familiar.
what about the descriptions? they are as imperial has said, “ominous”
onyx cape
"Utterly alien and strangely familiar" is a description commonly used for forerunner tech.
But good find.
quartz willow
The whole dead world part I'd be willing to bet is the precursor fortress world humanity's forces made their last stand at
Since after the test firing there the world became entirely barren
onyx cape
Renegades reveals other dead worlds as well.
quartz willow
Yes but halo 5a hellcat came out before the lore developments in reneagedes
versed helm
what technological advances did the Ancient humans have compared to forerunners?
onyx cape
In what ways were they superior/inferior? Well I don't think anything has been outright confirmed. But its reasonable to assume they had at least a stronger navy.
And what comes with that
versed helm
i’m just trying to understand how Ancient humans were tier 1, but were able to be decimated by the forerunner
quartz willow
@versed helm they were on par with eachother really but the forerunners had expanded faster than humanity and had mastered making artificial worlds and life so we know forerunners were superior in those ways but in other ways we dont know if humanity is superior I space combat for instance we know nothing about for humans not even a single ship type
versed helm
i wonder if they’ll make more clear Human lore in the future
quartz willow
@versed helm they held way less space in the milky way and their ally the san shyum betrayed them.giving the forerunners access codes to humanitys fortress worlds
onyx cape
Forerunners didn't really decimate them. They had the luxury of 1. Humans fighting the flood at the same time and 2. The San shyuum betraying them.
quartz willow
If neither of those happens I'd be willing to bet that they wouldn't have won so easily
versed helm
why did the forerunners want to kill the humans? sorry, i’m not very broad on the Ancient humans, it’s my weak point in convo
onyx cape
No apology needed. They wanted to eliminate them because as humanity was running from the flood, they were glassing forerunner worlds, so as to prevent the spread of the flood.
Forerunners rightfully saw this as aggression.
quartz willow
@versed helmbecause some forerunner worlds had started getting small signs of flood infection and humanity trying to stop the flood from finding the forerunners began cleansing their worlds on the human forerunner border of all life so the flood would think nothing lay beyond that area
onyx cape
And imperial expansion.
quartz willow
But the forerunners not knowing about the flood saw that has signs of a unaggrvated attack on their people
versed helm
kind of reminds me as the revolutionary war for america, britain was having to fight spain, and france, and the rebels at the same time and wasn’t able to concentrate on one enemy, so, they were tired
quartz willow
Yes exactly like that the humans were having to fight 2 very deadly enemy and than there only ally betrayed them.so they wouldn't be devolved
onyx cape
That's not a bad analogy.
versed helm
i just read this on Halopedia
“This Forerunner victory proved disastrous for the galaxy, as the Humans destroyed all their research data and physical evidence concerning the Flood, including an apparent cure to stop the parasite. Bornstellar-Makes-Eternal-Lasting speculated it was Humanity's final act of vengeance to leave the Forerunners unprepared to face the incoming threat that led to the firing of the Halo array”
so, the forerunners has a cure apparently for the flood, then the humans destroyed it?
onyx cape
The humans supposedly had a cure. They did not. The flood was intentionally leaving humans uninfected, so as to give the impression that humans had found a cure. It was all to trick the forerunners.
humble yacht
classic subterfuge
versed helm
grave mind was being very smart
onyx cape
Gravemind is my favorite antagonist of all time honestly.
versed helm
the gravemind is a mastermind in every aspect, being able to destroy some of the most advanced civilizations of the time
insanely impressive
onyx cape
He is. If you've read the short story 'human weakness' in halo evolutions it makes him even more impressive and interesting.
quartz willow
Yes that story fleshes out the point of view of many creatures last thoughts before being infected by the flood and just how intelligent the gravemind was
versed helm
the fact he’s also able to manipulate the most intelligent AI (Mendicant Bias) and make it come to the flood, shows that
onyx cape
What's most intriguing, to me at least, is that much of what he says just isnt wrong. Hes right in many regards.
versed helm
Like what? i’m not disagreeing, just curious
onyx cape
His viewpoint on himself and what he controls (the flood). When consumed by him there wouldn't be any sadness hunger or pain. You do effectively achieve immortality. Its really just the way in which he does it which repulses us.
quartz willow
My favorite battle in the halo universe is the last battle with mendicant bias fleet of millions perhaps billions of ships against offensive bais last bastion of the once powerful fleet only 11000 ships to balt the flood until the array is fired it dosent take long into the battle for offensives ships to start getting infected but than right has it starts getting dire the array is fired mendicant loses control of his fleet and bias Is able to detain mendicant biases flagship
viral flint
Stop
quartz willow
Never
versed helm
sorry, my discord just killed itself
viral flint
Lol
versed helm
how was all the forerunner not able to stop mendicant?
humble yacht
Because Mendicant was backed by the Flood
viral flint
They suck
quartz willow
He could think circles around even the brightest forerunner minds and with trillo8ns of infected minds has processing power he virtually never stopped thinking @versed helm
humble yacht
that too
versed helm
gravemind is insane
gravemind is like if mendicant went through a couple crazy machines
and then became the machine
quartz willow
The only thing that ever challenged him was when Offensive Bias was created by the master builder though offensive thought of him as inferior he was eventually bested by his "inferior brother."
humble yacht
Gravemind was smarter than MB
Offensive Bias lacked MB's creativity, but made up for it in blunt effectiveness
OB was cruder but also specifically designed to route MB
versed helm
Do the covenant or humanity have anything as good as MB?
humble yacht
nope
versed helm
what would be the closest?
humble yacht
Cortana
feral perch
... BB
humble yacht
the Covenant purposefully did not make advanced AI because of their history with the Flood
feral perch
heh, I wish
quartz willow
Offensive was created for 2 things and 2 things only. To extremely effective in combat and almost always find a solution to try to win. And to be the bane of mendicant biases existences
humble yacht
also I think Cortana can out-process BB
feral perch
It seems like the Covies were on to something
versed helm
the covenant are actually really smart
onyx cape
I still question the sanity of the forerunners. Their civilization was brought to its knees by an AI.... so they create an AI to combat it lol.
quartz willow
No they restricted their AIs highly after learning of the treachery of mendicant bias @feral perch
versed helm
are the sangheili tier 2? or just when they were adopted?
quartz willow
They were tier 3 before the covenant
versed helm
they were desperate @onyx cape
quartz willow
But after joining with the San shyum they became tier 2
humble yacht
I think they made OB in such a way that he didn't care enough about philosophy to fall prey to the logic plague
versed helm
are the san shyum extinct now?
quartz willow
And he didnt care about Morales at all
humble yacht
I feel like if OB and the gravemind had a chat, OB would just be like "eh" and move on
quartz willow
One thing mendicant thought he would
versed helm
gravemind would probably be able to persuade him
quartz willow
That's why mendicant didnt except OB to sacrifice noncombat ships to save combat ready ships
humble yacht
How do you persuade something with no desire?
versed helm
the thing is, the gravemind has insane PATIENCE
it took how many years to persuade MB?
humble yacht
43 years
quartz willow
@versed helm Offensive didnt have any thoughts other than how to win a battle and what mendicant would do next
versed helm
but then again, OB didn’t have any personality really
feral perch
What became of OB?
versed helm
he was literally made as a counter to MB
quartz willow
I dont know after the last battle of the forerunner trilogy
versed helm
that’s crazy
quartz willow
He probably is laying dormant on the ark somewhere @feral perch
versed helm
wouldn’t he of been in HW2 then?
feral perch
Maybe he brought the SoF to the Ark
versed helm
Didn’t cortana fight a fragment of MB?
quartz willow
So that gives us no reason to believe even if OB wasnt fragmented why he would try to communicate with them
@versed helm yes inside high charity's security systems
versed helm
prometheans were made to combat the flood yea?
quartz willow
But my theory for the SoF being brought to the ark is the AI that was aboard the UNSC Rubici when spark tool control and booted it to the ark
quartz willow
I think his name was curator
@versed helm it was a UNSC frigate sent to the ark to investigate strange signals coming from it
carmine sleet
The Rubicon? That's the ship Spark took over post Halo 3
versed helm
nice to see you join the convo @carmine sleet
quartz willow
They found sparks chassis floating in space and picked it up and were surprised to find he was alive
Be than took control of the ship and put the entire crew in cryo sleep
carmine sleet
I join in here or there Olive
versed helm
Do we have any history of a spartan getting infected by a flood form?
i dont believe so
carmine sleet
Chief almost did but we've not heard anything of a Spartan getting infected outside of protocols they have incase it happens
versed helm
It just confuses me on why Serena only woke Jerome when the outbreak on the SoF happened, why not wake all of red team?
it's very risky isn't it?
quartz willow
Jerome was the most trust worthy
And most experienced
He would also be the least likely one to tell the captian he helped Sernia engage final dispensation
carmine sleet
Likely to also keep the whole thing as small as possible as well
quartz willow
Yes
quartz willow
Yes that's how BA Jerome is
versed helm
in the comics, it's quite funny
quartz willow
Mostly yes but all of red team is really obedient they all almost never disobeyed orders in either of the games
haughty python
does anybody like someone from SPARTAN-IV?
versed helm
buck
haughty python
me personally - Buck and Thorne
carmine sleet
I like Buck and Vale
versed helm
i love crimson team, the're one of the more deadly groups
versed helm
anyways, Red team i don't think ever disobey
quartz willow
But I also like apollo team
versed helm
compared to many of their counterparts in the S-II program, Red team were also washouts, maybe that plays a part
how did they "revive" Red team though?
quartz willow
There were quite a few washouts who were rehabilitated and became spartsns
Cryo therapy
quartz willow
That's how they were able to revive red team Cryo Therapy
That's also how cheif managed to keep linda alive after being burnt to a crisp by covenant forces on gamma station @versed helm
versed helm
Linda has had a rough road
How did Red team gain thrusters in HW2? they obv don't have updated armor
quartz willow
Yes I'd like to know red teams earlier parts in the war before the sheild world and after they were received via cryo
@versed helm isabell was probably able to enhance their armor
quartz willow
Yea
I guess cause if were thinking like that than how did Douglas get a new helmet
quartz willow
Maybe but mjlnior is highly expensive it costs as much as a frigate
versed helm
haha as much as the SoF
quartz willow
So they arent gonna have extras laying around on a ship that wasnt keant to have Spartans aboard
versed helm
They probably just repaired it, Douglas was out of battle for some time
quartz willow
So the entirety of red teams armor could buy three spirit of fires
versed helm
i remember Buck saying in new blood about Musa to Mickey i think, "Even though he's crippled, he can still probably beat all of us"
Shhhhhhhh
@stoic hamlet any input on how douglas got a new helmet?
or how they got thrusters?
stoic hamlet
Scavenged GEN2 parts from Ark outposts
quartz willow
Isabell was probably outfitted with knowledge of gen2 desgins
stoic hamlet
It’s mentioned in a canon fodder IIRC
quartz willow
Thus Douglas having a silver visor and the rest having the standard visor still
quartz willow
You only notice the silver visor in the blitz menu whm you click on his blitz card @versed helm
versed helm
gotcha, not in-game?
carmine sleet
Douglas didn't have a silver visor on his Blitz Card
quartz willow
Yes he did
versed helm
i just looked it up, he does
quartz willow
Go look at the background and his blitz card I just saw it earlier and just looked it up
carmine sleet
Ok, weird, because I just found art of him with a gold visor on his card
And then I found the version with the silver visor as well
quartz willow
Maybe the gold is the blitz beta @carmine sleet
quartz willow
Ok
versed helm
what is douglas used for? alice is the killing machine basically, jerome is the leader, (also a badass) whats douglas?
carmine sleet
To make the other two look good?
versed helm
hahaha true, he did kinda also get rekt by atriox
versed helm
Alice didn't do anything, she got hit once, and didn't get up again, when you see the spartans charging, the whole time, its actually only jerome
fun fact
quartz willow
Yea Jerome is a fighter alice got picked up checked than was out Jerome and Douglas kpt trying to kill hi.e
onyx cape
Douglas is probably the demolitions guy, if they dont all share the same knowledge.
versed helm
i can see that, hence his Rocket launcher
onyx cape
And being nigh unkillable. That man holds Anders together early game.
versed helm
and also, when douglas screamed, it gave me goosebumps, it was the first time we have ever heard a spartan scream in pain, and agony
onyx cape
I had the same thoughts
versed helm
isn't jerome the strongest in-game?
versed helm
i had a Vet 3 Jerome face Omega team with a commander jerome in his mech, and the vet 3 jerome won
i was shocked
stoic hamlet
Alivce could have killed Atriox right there, just FYI, at the end of the fight
versed helm
how?
stoic hamlet
One shot from her BR
onyx cape
Commander Jerome is a very strong hero but I'd give the more impactful leader to douglas. At least for a majority of the game.
stoic hamlet
Boom, he’s dead
versed helm
he wouldn't of
stoic hamlet
He had no shields
quartz willow
Yea but instead just lay there like what the heck just happened
stoic hamlet
So yes, he would’ve
versed helm
brutes take multiple br shots all the time, and atriox isnt a regular brute
onyx cape
They were trying to get douglas out of there. If they re engaged trox would have just used chainbreaker to pull them in again.
stoic hamlet
Literally one shot,
quartz willow
Yes brutes may be tough even 3 shots to the head and their dead
versed helm
i agree with Viper
stoic hamlet
He just stands there as Alice aims at him
versed helm
it would be smarter to not engage
jerome shot him mltiple times
and douglas stabbed him, and he was fine
Alice didn't do anything
onyx cape
It's a possiblity eternal and I think the Spartans knew that but didn't want to take the risk.
stoic hamlet
She doesn’t reload, her weapon doesn’t jam, so presumably she has at least a round in the chamber, and she’s aiming at his unprotected head
onyx cape
If she missed or it didn't work for whatever reason all 3 of them would have been killed.
stoic hamlet
The highly competent super soldier with reflexes faster than anything else in the room could follow didn’t wanna risk firing a single shot?
quartz willow
And when Douglas is shooting when their leaving in the trailer did that get scraped or something
onyx cape
Not when their mission is recon, no.
quartz willow
I dont remember that in game
versed helm
He didn't shoot ingame
stoic hamlet
one shot
versed helm
Eternal, it would be too risky, also, Jerome GAVE her the order their leaving
Jeorme is the leader
stoic hamlet
But he didn’t say don’t shoot
versed helm
he said "alice, were leaving"
onyx cape
Canadian, their mission was exclusively recon. Find out what happened. Second, there was no way for them to know at the time that that brute specifically was atriox, leader of the banished.
versed helm
that is implecation to just leave
stoic hamlet
I know that
quartz willow
Yea unlike grey team when Jerome give an order the all follow unlike with Jai of grey team they all moan
stoic hamlet
But that doesn’t explain why she didn’t fire.
onyx cape
To them it was just a brute. Why risk 3 lives for one brute?
versed helm
They all respect jerome heavily
stoic hamlet
We’ve seen Spartans fire as they retreat before
onyx cape
Not against enemies who can pull you right back in
stoic hamlet
Heck, we know she did, as she fires through the doorway as they get outside
versed helm
^^
quartz willow
Yes but ohh well they were probably freaked out that one brute could best all three of them
versed helm
yea
onyx cape
At the brutes charging them yes
quartz willow
Than at the same time break Douglas shoulder and crush his helmet
versed helm
once you have that weapon atriox did, probably not anything Red team has seen before, they were startled to say the least
quartz willow
Then pick alice up and choke her than throw her like she was a paperweight
stoic hamlet
I just don’t buy that she held her fire for what, dramatic effect?
No one else would have hesitated
onyx cape
The decision they made to get douglas and themselves out of there was the right one.
versed helm
and jerome stabbing him with a knife, and shooting him with a pistol
onyx cape
No she held because if she did they'd get yanked in and killed
stoic hamlet
Not if he was dead
versed helm
he wouldn't of died
onyx cape
Big if to risk the lives of yourself and two of your closest companions no?
quartz willow
They see atriox start talking to the other brutes they knew he was giving them orders which gave them time to extract Douglas so in my logic it make sense not to fire because you can risk the injured spartan you have with you
versed helm
also REMEMBER! Red team is EXTREMELY obediant to Cutter, their mission was "Recon" only, so they weren't going to engage unless had to
stoic hamlet
Block the bullet With what? His arm? It was down by his side, he has no shields activated, and he doesn’t seem the agile type.
onyx cape
You're working off the assumption that a shot would have been a guaranteed kill.
stoic hamlet
Why wouldn’t it have been, it if was a headshot?
Which I can’t imagine it wouldn’t have been at that range
onyx cape
-if- it was a headshot.
versed helm
to a brute who is stronger than the rest, and literally came back after every battle he had
onyx cape
Spartans miss shots too
quartz willow
Like in ghosts of onyx a brute got shot in the head by Linda kept attacking for a few seconds than realized what happend and died
versed helm
those are regular brutes
onyx cape
And yes brutes have demonstrated the tenacity to literally not care about gunshot wounds lol.
Sometimes to the head.
versed helm
they were more than 5 feet, or else they would of been fighting
stoic hamlet
So is he. He’s not suddenly more durable than any other brute, especially not his head
quartz willow
That was a sniper a br would have done less and possible only would wound and enrage him even farther
versed helm
jerome literally shot atriox with a pistol many times
quartz willow
@stoic hamlet no the area he stabbed was unprotected
onyx cape
Plus he was no doubt anticipating a shot. See his reaction time at the end of awakening the nightmare?
quartz willow
I remember the cutscene vividly
versed helm
Because Brutes have a tendency to ignore getting shot in the head? One in Ghost of Onyx nearly killed Fred despite taking a sniper round from Linda to the head prior to engaging him and required a second shot to kill it.
You know, the sniper round capable of penetrating 13 feet of bone and flesh with its basic variant while Linda's are HEAP rounds...
I also recall one taking a full clip from a MA5B to the open month at point blank range and surviving for a few seconds in the same book...
quartz willow
Yea straight up grabs the form.out of midair and crushed it
stoic hamlet
I can’t imagine he’d not flinch if he got a pistol or knife to the head, never mind a BR round.
onyx cape
Flinch maybe. Then hed pull them in and kill all 3 and get isabel lol.
quartz willow
Yes you to would have been terrified if this one brute could survive all of that
stoic hamlet
I’m just saying, having Alice just stand there aiming was a dumb visual choice
Have her weapon jam or something
onyx cape
But it was a smart tactical choice on her part.
stoic hamlet
Or have her reload, something
quartz willow
Also I'd like to know if atriox had any other encounters with Spartans with how he acts towards them during the battle
onyx cape
Nah she didn't shoot enough to warrant a reload.
versed helm
dude, also brutes can survive a while may if AR Rounds to the face
onyx cape
And a weapon jam is too convenient.
modest marsh
Lol Spartans don’t miss point blank shots
quartz willow
He purely hates them
modest marsh
That has literally never happened
stoic hamlet
And having her just stand there makes more sense?
onyx cape
Yes, tactically.
versed helm
why risks 3 Spartan-IIs for one brute?
modest marsh
A BR should have more than enough stopping power to kill a Brute within a few bursts
stoic hamlet
It’s also relevant to note for that Ghosts example Linda wasn’t using HEAP rounds
quartz willow
Yes but stil if a while clip from a ar to the head point blank can kill a brute quick what can
onyx cape
She wouldn't have had time for "a few bursts"
versed helm
^^
modest marsh
In fact they demonstrably can’t
versed helm
We need a lore worker to defuse this
versed helm
a sniper bullet to the head... didn’t kill a REGULAR brute
onyx cape
A few bursts is a few seconds worth of time. Again, pulled in and killed.
modest marsh
Even at 600rpm Alice could’ve emptied the magazine
versed helm
we also don’t know if she had ammo in the mag
remote spruce
Plot twist Atriox had shields just like half the brutes in the game /s
modest marsh
So she was pointing an empty gun?
stoic hamlet
sigh
onyx cape
She wouldn't have had to reload. She didn't engage because of the risk it posed to herself and the group. Its that simple.
modest marsh
She hadn’t fired it before encountering Atriox
quartz willow
Those warlords we see charge them atriox knew they would die
remote spruce
Tfw no Blur cutscene of Decimus dropping in with the giant mech
onyx cape
Risk 3 Spartans and the ai for one brute?
modest marsh
What risk
stoic hamlet
She picked up one of the two BR’s IIRC.
onyx cape
The risk of it not killing him.
stoic hamlet
She originally had a shotgun
versed helm
could of been jerome’s BR
quartz willow
That's why when they were leaving he knew Jerome would do something and those warlords would be dead
versed helm
he took many shots
remote spruce
Alice went from carrying a BR to having a M247H on her back
quartz willow
Cause If you look closely as they start leaving he starts to turn around
onyx cape
Another possibility is that during the fight red team was made aware that they were literally surrounded by dozens of brutes.
versed helm
they were Recon, Red team would never go against Cutyers orders
onyx cape
Shooting and killing him may have worked but they still would have been gutted.
versed helm
trackers
onyx cape
These brutes caught us in an obvious trap, are clearly toying with us, and one has crushed a mjolnir helmet with his bare hand
It's time to leave.
I think that's a solid call.
carmine sleet
Indeed, backup wouldn't be fast enough and staying there is just a death sentence
versed helm
also jerome called for bombs after they drove away
remote spruce
Archer missiles got buffed
I think
But seriously how did those missiles not destroy the base
carmine sleet
I mean, we didn't see the base that Atriox and his Brutes were hiding in after the cutscene
carmine sleet
Is the shortened version of that word filtered? I'd rather ask than try just in case
carmine sleet
I'd say it might be smart to filter it just in case someone tries to spoil anything
ripe sage
I should just mute everything
quartz willow
Heres what atriox says as red team is running from him
"As I suspected, nothing, but a man."
"Yes, run little demons. Hunt them down. Find out where they came from, and bring me back anything useful."
ripe sage
And then I can talk to myself lol
stoic hamlet
Maybe tbh
quartz willow
So yes it can be assumed that red team know he was giving them a chance to run
carmine sleet
Atriox also showed little interest in killing them throughout the game as well, such as in the final mission when he offers Cutter the chance to leave without anymore conflict
modest marsh
Regardless of the circumstances, it is out of character for a Spartan to not shoot an enemy they just encountered
quartz willow
Yes
stoic hamlet
Alright, sure, but why then did Alice fire at the pursuing Brutes but not the stationary target right in front?
That’s all I’m saying
It doesn’t make sense
quartz willow
@modest marshyes but they were probably shook from their engagement
carmine sleet
The Brutes that were rushing towards them were the bigger threat in that moment
quartz willow
And how he wasnt in the least bit frightened of the "Demons."
stoic hamlet
But they weren’t rushing towards them for several seconds
Atriox didn’t move for several more
quartz willow
And also at that point they thought they were still fighting the covenant and they had never seen a brute assert that much authority over troops and be that powerful and smart and that entire fight atriox never once got enraged they were wondering in there heads if he was a subspecies of brute most likely
modest marsh
What
They just see a single brute in some UNSC outpost
That means nothing
You’re thinking of Atriox in context of someone aware of everything already
quartz willow
Yes but they also think the war with the covenant is still going so to them hes a cheiftan and cheiftan are capable of getting sheilds
So he could've had sheilds
modest marsh
You look at the books for example, where you have Naomi headshotting Brutes before she even consciously recognized what it was
When has shields prevented Spartans from taking a shot
quartz willow
Well yes but red team.wasnt in the war for long before they were forced to go into cryo sleep for like 28 years
So they arent completely used to headshotting brutes elites and grunts and jackals yes
modest marsh
They still had the same training
And we’ve seen fresh Spartans
They operate nearly identically
quartz willow
@modest marshbut they dont have the same experience as.the other active spartan teams
modest marsh
See my above point
stoic hamlet
Also Atriox had no shields active
If he did Jerome and Alice’s pistol rounds wouldn’t have hit his armour
But they did
Same for the two BR bursts
I just rewatched the cutscene
quartz willow
Well than just call it a case if nerves idk why they didnt kill him there but like I just said it was most likely nerves
stoic hamlet
Nerves doesn’t make sense either IMO
We’ve seen in Ghosts of Onyx that Spartans even with shaken nerves can still fight.
Heck, we have a case of an 11 year old Gamma (Holly) jumping in front of a Hunter after watching a Spartan II die.
If she can do that I don’t see why Alice couldn’t have fired
modest marsh
Spartans are mostly characterized as falling onto a strict adherence to protocol and combat training that dictates how they handle a tactical situation
Often before they consciously make a decision
stoic hamlet
Yep
modest marsh
Their actions are functionally automated, minimizing confusion or delay
That’s why they’re described as looking like robots when they move
stoic hamlet
There’s no reason for Alice to not have fired unless she did but her weapon jammed.
modest marsh
Drama
The characters are behaving irrationally to emphasize certain narrative beats by neglecting others
Atriox must be established as the big bad villain who can beat everyone
stoic hamlet
Oh I know. I’m just trying to give an in-universe reason
modest marsh
Sometimes things are unreconcilable
stoic hamlet
Like, it’s obviously been done to showcase Atriox is supposedly better than anyone else and thus needs to look good, but if the only way they could do that is by making the characters look dumb and act OOC then how are we actually supposed to take him seriously as a threat.
modest marsh
Yeah I’m with you there
versed helm
also, red team hasn’t ever faced a brute that deadly
or that strong
able to fight off 3 Spartan-IIs? kind of scary
while earlier they were able to defeat like 40 elites, and later Jerome was able to defend isabel all by himself?
it’s scary to think that the brute was able to fend off, so they were probably not worried about engaging, as much as running away
and jerome killers those elites and brutes without a scratch on him
stoic hamlet
If he was such a threat, as you say, why didn’t they at least further attempt to eliminate him as they retreated?
@modest marsh is correct, Red Team were gimped to make Atriox look good, but instead it just made Red Team look dumb
versed helm
because they were RECON only
stoic hamlet
That’s a terrible excuse
versed helm
how?
stoic hamlet
No one is saying they should have pressed the attack
versed helm
they did defend, them they had an injured spartan, and once they got out, they retreated
stoic hamlet
Just that instead of simply walking backwards they should have continued to fire
modest marsh
Defending themselves involves making sure the threat is suppressed as much as possible
stoic hamlet
And they couldn’t fire while doing that?
modest marsh
It doesn’t inhibit their ability to tactically retreat
versed helm
why risk another spartan casualty???
versed helm
he literally has a weapon that can suck you in
modest marsh
They don’t know that
gilded mason
That's silly
versed helm
that’s literally what he says
and he gives them multiple chances to evade
there’s no reason to engage when they can escape, and also we don’t know if they had any ammo in their weapons
stoic hamlet
But they do
Alice fires at the pursuing Brutes
If she can fire at them why not Atriox?
There’s no logic to not fire as they fall back
versed helm
because they are shocked by atriox, dude, they’ve never seen that strength before
stoic hamlet
As I previously mentioned, we’ve seen far worse things occur to Spartans and their comrades don’t freeze up, even ones who are even younger and less experienced.
versed helm
not red team
modest marsh
By your reasoning Spartans wouldn’t shoot back at Hunters because they are very strong
Nothing Atriox does within the scene is outlandish
versed helm
theyve met hunters before, they know what to expect
modest marsh
Or unheard of
stoic hamlet
They’ve met Brutes before as well
modest marsh
Master Chief gunned down a Hunter like months into being a Spartan
stoic hamlet
They still fought Brutes before
modest marsh
They still had over a decade of training and combat experience cumulatively
versed helm
regular brutes
stoic hamlet
To them Atriox is a regular brute at that point
versed helm
you think he could die by one bullet to the head? no
stoic hamlet
Uh, yes
modest marsh
What about 30
stoic hamlet
Even if not, there’s still no reason not to fire
versed helm
they also probably didnt have much ammo
modest marsh
What happens when both his eyes have a bullet in them
stoic hamlet
They fired 6 rounds out of one BR
versed helm
Ok, what would shooting him of done?
stoic hamlet
Presumably they still had at least 30 rounds left in the mag if not a full magazine depending on the BR
modest marsh
Blinded him
stoic hamlet
Suppression
gilded mason
Or kill him.
versed helm
why do that? atriox wasnt engaging
modest marsh
Don’t give him the chance
stoic hamlet
Because Johnson shouted at him
stoic hamlet
They didn’t think to continue firing as they retreat?
versed helm
you have to think of it in their aspect
they just got their butt beat by that one brute, who took pistol ammo, knife wounds, and has a weapon that can drag you in with just a button
and are a spartan down
stoic hamlet
John saw Grace get her back ripped apart by s brute but he still engaged
versed helm
what doe sjohn do with red team?
stoic hamlet
Holly saw Will get killed by a Hunter but she still acted to protect Kelly
versed helm
not all spartans are the same
stoic hamlet
I’m giving a similar scenario to compare
versed helm
but no one thinks alike
stoic hamlet
So two adult Spartan II’s are less focused and more prone to fear than an 11 year old Gamma who had never seen a Hunter before. Also said hunter had just killed a Spartan II.
versed helm
Red Team was in cryo sleep for 28 years and they just recently woke up before encountering Atriox.
I'd imagine it would take a considerable amount of time to fully get back in shape after such a long time in cryo sleep, even for Spartans, hence why their reaction time and situational awareness was way off.
In the novelisation it does mention that Chief is in a lot of pain due to wearing his armour into cryo which causes severe blistering all over the skin, and that the crewman had to give him a double dose of stimulants to get him on his feet due to the current attack going on.
stoic hamlet
I could maybe buy that. That cryo screwed them up.
But it’s still weird, is all I’m saying
last anchor
Also they didn't exactly expect to be facing an enemy like the Banished yet.
All the Brutes they'd fought before this were the under-equipped almost feral ones the Covenant deployed earlier in the war. Mainly the ones they encountered on the Shield World, and maybe on Harvest.
The Banished are nothing like them. Atroix certainly isnt
autumn urchin
how did john survive a nuclear explosion in halo 4
gilded mason
Cortana hard light magic
autumn urchin
is that sarcasm
safe siren
It's not something that strange, we see it since Halo: CE
remote spruce
bubble was too big IMO
quartz willow
@safe siren no how in gameplay it can only take so many bullets before dropping but than were expected to believe it blocked a entire nuclear bomb
It just isnt realilistic
safe siren
I think you are talking about shields, if i remember correctly we never had to destroy hard light before
carmine sleet
No, it's plasma-based
safe siren
Nope, they weren't able to reverse-engineering it
The only case of destruction of Hard Light is from Primordium
"Although they can be crafted to be extremely resilient, hard light constructs are not indestructible. Aside from disabling them by deactivating or destroying the power source, hard light constructs can break up upon suffering heavy damage. For example, Installation 07's central hard light hub and spokes connecting to the ring were destroyed under the stress of collision with a planet. The stress of the hard light structures pressing against the face of the planet caused the spokes to first stretch out, before fragmenting and abruptly turning into curling beams of intense, blue-violet radiation."
quartz willow
Dang but wouldn't a nuke basically do the same thing
last anchor
Pretty much. Many Forerunner structures are made out of it remember
And they can withstand all kinds of crap
modest marsh
I interpreted Cortana having teleported Chief away in addition to shielding him
safe siren
Yes, they used it a lot.
quartz willow
To me it just a plot Device
gilded mason
Nope, they weren't able to reverse-engineering it
Then again, Tem'Bhetek uses a hard light gauntlet, and the Waypoint page for the Covenant says that they make use of it:
These improvements included translight travel and communication, the manipulation of extremely high volumes of plasma energy through recycling detritus from sublight travel, the control and usage of hard light, short-range teleportation of matter, and the deft influence over gravity and repulsor-based technologies, among other things.
safe siren
I didin't read the trivia, my bad
quartz willow
@gilded mason so would you say that they would have been somewhat used in shielding technology
modest marsh
The holograms used by the Covenant seem to incorporate hardlight considering they’re tangible
Specifically the decoy ones but I suppose the same could be true of certain interfaces or the like
gilded mason
@quartz willow
Perhaps?
modest marsh
I’m pretty sure that’s a forgone conclusion
gilded mason
Mag's got a good point about those holograms.
quartz willow
Yea
last anchor
Also the plasma shields they use for defense on the ground are definently hardlight-ish
feral perch
hah
that's great, I like that @versed helm . That is the perfect question for entering this channel.
simple onyx
lol it seems that way
versed helm
it’s always an argument
carmine sleet
I think you tagged the wrong person
quartz willow
@versed helm we were discussing if the covenant used hardlight technology in their sheilds which spanned from Cortana saving cheif from the nuke at the end of halo 4
I personally believe cheif should have died
Because heated plasma destroys the covenants sheild on the mission dome of light in halo wars 1
last anchor
Hardlight and Covenant plasma shields arent the same
They're similar, but the plasma shields are a inferior version.
Actually, doesnt plasma bombardment of Forerunner hard light structure produce weird phase-pearl things?
quartz willow
Yes but a nuke the same heat as a plasma bombardment should theoretically do the same so wouldn't that meant that the stuff that had surrounded cheif become phase pearls
last anchor
Its a Havok tho. Medium level destructive device.
The blast wouldnt have been that impressive.
It didnt even fully destroy Mantles Approach
quartz willow
Ok nvm thought it was something on a upper levels of a nuke that's my bad than
regal oasis
That'll do it.
versed helm
i just bought the Halo interactive game, is it any good?
gilded mason
gilded mason
Uh. You're welcome?
versed helm
no one knows what i’m talking about
thank god
@versed helm why would you ask here of all places
#halo-gear exists
it worked didn’t it?
versed helm
One might say it's not about whether or not it worked. It's about whether it's right.
That said, I couldn't give a flying frag grenade, unless someone interrupted me with something that didn't belong in the channel while I was spitting dank lore and theories about UNSC gear.
versed helm
@versed helm all you do is spit lore about UNSC gear
obsidian thistle
Oh the Interactive Strategy Game.
That weird thing.
Where it breaks canon in a lot of areas.
Thankfully its very easy to ignore.
strong sage
Is it possible that hardlight shields can be incorporated with Mjolnirs? And how strong are hardlight shields against from small arms to large caliber rounds?
autumn urchin
is there somewhere a detailed map of Reach with all the locations played on the campaign
obsidian thistle
Well in 2557 and 2558 there was Hardlight shields used by Spartans. (Remember Halo 4?)
And you can get a "good" idea here with this map. But it aint perfect https://www.halopedia.org/images/7/74/Reach_map.png
strong sage
@obsidian thistle ooo yeaah i forgot but that was handheld/armor abilities thingy right? And i assume they are durable enough than the current standard energy shields right fam
safe siren
AFAIR you can't break it in the game
autumn urchin
i guess the square is Sword base and the crossed circle is Visegrad, but cant tell anything else
carmine sleet
Would it be a logical guess to say some of those round bodies of water on that map are craters left over by meteors impacting on Reach's surface?
obsidian thistle
Halo Online did have prototype armor utilize armor based Hardlight shields in 2555. But as that lore aint canon anymore its not something we can use to accurately say anything in current lore.
FYI that was public if you could read Russian
safe siren
https://www.halopedia.org/images/e/e9/Reachglobe.png isn't this the map of Reach?
obsidian thistle
CASTLE
autumn urchin
oooh
carmine sleet
My guess is that those meteors must've come from the nearby planet with a ring about it for the planet to have so many craters like that
strong sage
Ahhhhhh i seee , but well if you think of it probably makes sense that Gen 3 might use hardlights and spartans can take more punishments/durable thou again gen 3 is still in planning stage so this is just a theory of mine ^^ hope devs will clraify things more soon
obsidian thistle
There be a lotta mysteries with that map xD I dont think we have a clear reason why it exists tbh.
autumn urchin
isnt that the same map you can find at the end of Exodus?
obsidian thistle
Well Halo Reach is based around that "continent".
safe siren
If i'm not wrong the Spartan Field Manual say something about the Gen 3 armors, it's possible that the big UNSC ship will allow us to use it.
why tho
wispy bough
the movie
safe siren
oooh
obsidian thistle
GEN3 is still a mystery however.
wispy bough
Yeah lol
safe siren
ok, makes sense
obsidian thistle
Took a lot to squeeze out info to make this page xD https://www.halopedia.org/MJOLNIR_Powered_Assault_Armor_(GEN3)
safe siren
So it's just a concept, we'll see what they have in mind with the new armor
obsidian thistle
Pretty much.
strong sage
All pretty much we can just speculate for now xd
strong sage
Thou im sure it will be costly using hardlight shields
I heard halsey ish planning to give mjolnir the teleportation thingy like what the knights do as well
versed helm
i want a good lore discussion today before i see e n d g a m e
remote spruce
Do Promethean Knights/Crawlers/Soldiers use smart link?
obsidian thistle
Ok so I have something
Would you lot say this is the less violent version of the Wasp?
carmine sleet
I'd say so from the looks of it
versed helm
Yes they do, it's been confirmed, ill try and find the quote i saw
It's on Halopedia
on the articles about the prometheans weapons
autumn urchin
is that vehicle going to be in the new halo or what?
carmine sleet
The Honeybee is for Outpost Discovery
last anchor
Outpost Discovery. Probably the thing you're gonna ride for their 3D ring exploring ride
stoic hamlet
That seems......kinda odd. In-lore it makes sense, but as a convention attraction? Don’t those types of things usually take in groups?
You know, maximize the rate of attendee access
last anchor
Think of it as one pod holding like maybe four people at most, but theres like 12 pods total
fair hazel
Its cutee!
quartz willow
Good afternoon lore boys
obsidian thistle
Good afternoon
quartz willow
I read something in Ghosts of Onyx that kind of made me speculate. they never flat out mention the entire planet that the elites were on was completely destroyed they say that everything between the moon and the part of the planet facing the sun was destroyed and they never state if the meeting is being held on the light or dark side if the planet. So to me that could mean all the elites such as The Imperial Admiral Xytan 'Jar Wattinree could still be alive.
carmine sleet
I mean, the NOVA bomb was on Wattinree's ship so he would've been caught in the blast
quartz willow
Yes but The Imperial Admiral was on the ground was he not
Or did I miss read that part
carmine sleet
The meeting was held on his ship
Plus, if you were on the ground and something as powerful as a NOVA bomb went off, even if you were on the other side of the planet, it would still likely kill you from the shockwave alone
quartz willow
Yea I didnt realize it was on his ship well I hate Kwassass the engineers had disarmed it and he had to touch it enough to were they re armed it and than he pressed it again and killed everyone
clever fable
I wonder how Forerunners or Ancient Humanity protected planets from stuff like that. Presumably they could just slipspace a package like that into the vicinity of a target. Maybe particularly important locations don't allow slipspace intrusions within a certain vicinity?
last anchor
The Forerunners did have those crazy slip-guns on Line instillations. Perhaps theres a smaller version of that.
Also for the most part, I think cherenkov radiation is at hing
versed helm
hey imperial
last anchor
Obviously the UNSC tried to nuke Pegasi Delta and that didnt work so they had to send in Beta Company
chilly oxide
okay i need someone with lore knowledge to answer this
in the fall of reach movie, some spartan-training kid called george gets beat up by the drill instructor
the drill instructor calls him jorge
chilly oxide
is that jorge from halo reach?
obsidian thistle
That is the same Jorge from Halo Reach.
versed helm
there’s only one jorge from the spartan program
last anchor
Hence the joke in his name.
They pronounce it the Spanish way, where the J is more like a W.
versed helm
that’s not lore knowledge as much as common sense
chilly oxide
oh my god its actually him
last anchor
Or an H I guess.
Like Jesus is pronounced "He-sus."
last anchor
It both is and isnt
I mean ywah, why wouldnt he be there? He was an S-II
Jai, Adriana, Mike, Alice, Jerome and Douglas are all in there too but they're never named
chilly oxide
yeah i mean it clicked in my head but i didnt expect it to actually be that
versed helm
why is it so shocking to you?
solid mist
Only true lore champions know Jorge was an S-II
solid mist
I’m joking
chilly oxide
the one scene my favourite character appears he gets clobbered by a guy mispronouncing his name
im sorry its just
solid mist
What about the only reason we don’t see precursor tech is because their technology was made from space magic that got wiped out by halo rings
I said space magic because I forgot the actual thing
solid mist
Yeah that
chilly oxide
i think its called midichlorians
solid mist
Sounds like something from mass effect
chilly oxide
close, star wars
versed helm
that’s star wars
solid mist
mass effect, Star Wars
last anchor
I wonder if the Halo effect works on Midichlorians too
solid mist
Well it destroys anything with a nervous system
fair hazel
IT would cause a massive imbalance in the force
chilly oxide
comparing two different IPs never ends well
solid mist
Why did precursor tech have nervous systems
fair hazel
The extinction of life..
chilly oxide
well its not exactly an imbalance if the balance in question is completely empty now
versed helm
let’s argue about using hardlight as shields
solid mist
“GUYS I HAVE A PROBLEM!”
“Calm down, what is it?”
“MY LIGHT IS HARD!”
solid mist
Do we know if it’s even made of light
versed helm
i’m saying using it, it isn’t r you
terse gale
“GUYS I HAVE A PROBLEM!” “Calm down, what is it?” “MY LIGHT IS HARD!”
Same 😏
terse gale
Soul yes
chilly oxide
okay halo 4 dubs the shield ability as a photonic coalescence
last anchor
Yeah that sounds about right
chilly oxide
so it should be a high concentration of photons and nothing else?
considering its basically pure energy in a shape i would not touch that
terse gale
Hey baby, wanna see my hardlight shield 😏
fair hazel
photon-boson field if i remember correctly..
carmine sleet
Isn't hard light something that scientists are actually trying to figure out if it's possible?
versed helm
i’ll see your hardlight 🥵 @terse gale
versed helm
I think it's almost a dead-cert that hard-light, personal energy shields and active camouflage are the same basic tech.
They'd have to be remote fundamental-force fields capable of influencing, re-directing and re-arranging subatomic particles.
Though I think the jury's still out - do energy shields deflect, absorb the energy of or destroy projectiles?
If it's the latter one, that should mean that if you ran over a Spartan with a bullet train, the train would get burnt or harmed (to a greater degree than it would just striking half-a-ton of alloyed titanium).
My personal bet is energy-absorption. The flaring of the shields is the particles becoming excited as they absorb and disperse energy, and then the generator winks out when the excitement becomes too intense for the particle constraint field to hold in in place.
It wouldn't surprise me if, say, a bullet was to strike an energy shield, it wouldn't flatten and spall from the impact but simply stop and fall away. Or maybe the energized particles destroy it with heat after they absorb its kinetic energy.
Hence, energy shield. It shields you from incoming dangerous levels of energy, be it kinetic, heat, or anything else.
Rather than necessarily being a shield composed of energy, so much.
quartz willow
Well the energy sword just vaporizes incoming projectiles when s capable user uses it to block incoming objects
last anchor
Its all light based so
For shields, I think the round is simply disintegrated as its own kinetic force is directed back at it. Theres no lore precident to note of flattened bullets falling off energy shields, just rounds crashing into them and draining the power levels and stability
quartz willow
Yes but there is lore evidence to state like the light saber from star wars vaporizes anything besides laser projectiles
gaunt karma
but the energy shield doesn't only shield from dangerous levels of energy
stoic hamlet
Wait are we discussing light sabers vs energy shields?
gaunt karma
even if you just press a finger to it, you'll feel resistance
in TFoR it even mentions that having the shields at full power on Chief's boots made it feel like he was walking on greased ice
quartz willow
Both Sheilds snd energy swords
gaunt karma
nothing dangerous about walking on the floor
quartz willow
Yea
versed helm
I guess the assumption being, typically they would be configured in such a way as to respond to dangerous levels of threat. Or that, dangerous levels of energy are what causes the flare effect.
stoic hamlet
Like the Onyx sentinels
versed helm
I mean, a while ago, that's how I thought all energy shields worked.
But clearly they are ever-present, if disabled in certain areas like the palms or the underside of the feet.
But it's certainly a workable idea that the inability of someone trying to push their hand through the shield to do so is the shield absorbing the comparatively small and highly dispersed about of energy they can exert.
You need a dangerous amount of energy to cause the flaring effect, which may or may-not have the double effect of subjecting an incoming projectile to its own energy in a different form. So if you were to punch an energy shield with the speed of a bullet, your hand would burn away.
stoic hamlet
Mhm. We know shields don’t flare up from stuff like knives and fists
versed helm
Does raise the question of persistent energy shields, though. Like gauntlets.
stoic hamlet
Like the shield gauntlets used by Kig-Yar?
versed helm
Exactly.
stoic hamlet
Hmm
Well, bullets don’t seem to do much
But physical impacts do
Could be like a reverse of how MJOLNIR operates?
Speaking of MJOLNIR/shields, how did it fare when being engaged by that 20mm Skyhawk in TFoR again?
I need to settle a debate
But I don’t have the book on hand to check
versed helm
I'll grab the book, then. Won't be a minute.
stoic hamlet
Thanks!
gaunt karma
is the Skyhawk the thing that had the Scorpion missile?
stoic hamlet
Ye. It’s a Strike fighter
gaunt karma
cause he wasn't hit by those bullets, he just barely dodged and they ripped a bunch of trees up
if I recall correctly
then he deflected the missile, of course
:p
versed helm
The Skyhawk has 50mm cannons
versed helm
Earlier 30mm chaingun emplacements didn't seem to be an issue, and Chief thought they would "chip away at his shields" if he let them.
Hold up.
stoic hamlet
If the shield tanked at least one round I win the debate by proxy.
versed helm
A "smattering" of 50mm dropped his shields to half capacity.
stoic hamlet
So they did hit?
versed helm
It says "he caught a smattering of rounds" after he threw himself to the ground.
versed helm
Also, the wording of this text makes it very apparent that, from the perspective of the DE at least, TFoR things the 2551-first issue Mark V for Spartan II idea is full of blamite shards.
And I tend to agree.
stoic hamlet
DE? (Assuming you mean description?)
versed helm
Definitive Edition.
stoic hamlet
Ah, brain fart
versed helm
Btw, did you catch my blamite shards thing? Blamite Shards. B-S.
stoic hamlet
Heh
versed helm
I'm very proud of myself
stoic hamlet
Yeah
versed helm
I've been using "frag grenade" to replace the f-word on this server too.
stoic hamlet
But how is it BS? Do you mean the shields themselves or Mark V in general?
versed helm
I said "I couldn't give a flying frag grenade" a while ago
stoic hamlet
Nice, lol
versed helm
The idea that the Spartan IIs first received an early energy-shielded version of Mark V in 2551.
I believe it comes from Doctor Halsey's personal journal.
It's meant to account for NOBLE's Mark V in Halo Reach.
Personally, I would've just said that NOBLE got their Mark V in 2551 and the S-IIs were being held back from it as a precautionary measure.
stoic hamlet
I took the “first introduced in 2551” to mean it was available but couldn’t be given in the field, hence John first found out about it when he did the trial
versed helm
Halopedia's interpretation thinks S-IIs pretty explicitly had it in 2551.
stoic hamlet
I like your idea better though, because I could see Kurt having a hand in that
versed helm
good afternoon
It's also an explanation, I guess, for the visual difference between CEA mark V and Reach mark V.
Heyo.
stoic hamlet
Sup
versed helm
what’s the lore argument today?
Though my headcanon is that Chief's Mark V during the installation 04 crisis looked like that bit of Loot Crate art.
stoic hamlet
Energy shields
versed helm
Showing Reach-ified CE armour. It's way better.
terse gale
John and Blue Team first saw the shielded Mark V in Fall of Reach tho
versed helm
fall of reach didn’t have shields though?
quartz willow
@versed helm hello
versed helm
Both of you two hold up.
hey @quartz willow
TFoR is being overwritten for one, that's why I don't like it.
And Chief gets shielded Mark V near the end of TFoR
Leading up to Halo CE
anyone watch halo legends?
Of course
quartz willow
Yes
stoic hamlet
It was first issued in 2551, which @versed helm and I take to mean wasn’t outfitted en-masse at the same time
quartz willow
Loved it
stoic hamlet
Likely it was given when Spartans rotated back in to bases
quartz willow
My favorite part is orgins @versed helm
versed helm
Except that none of the S-IIs called back for Red Flag seemed to have it @stoic hamlet
Origins is good.
yes!!!
versed helm
is legends 343 or bungie?
stoic hamlet
343 @versed helm
quartz willow
Origins was our only looks into the forerunner flood war backthan
terse gale
John and Blue Team were the first people to get it, they were literally trying it out while a Covenant ship was in-orbit fighting a UNSC ship
stoic hamlet
What?
versed helm
did bungie make any movies or shows??
stoic hamlet
No
versed helm
i don’t think so
I think Legends is filled with a lot of canonical atrocities. The Babysitter and Prototype are pretty cool, I guess. And The Package is badass, dumb, and one should hope the events it portrays played out canonically very differently.
I really, really hate Homecoming.
stoic hamlet
You’re thinking of Mark IV, and all S-II’s were outfitted with it during that op @terse gale
quartz willow
Origins was a semi accurate depiction of the forerunner flood war
gilded mason
Though regardless of the other silly parts of The Package, I did like Thel 'Lodamee.
quartz willow
How at first the forerunners didnt even know the flood had returned because worlds fell so quickly
terse gale
It is interesting to note that the base Mjolnir Mark V variant worn by Noble Team is aesthetically different than the variant issued to John-117 and the other SPARTAN-II commandos on August 29, 2552 during the final days of the Fall of Reach.
stoic hamlet
Correct, it’s the [B] to [D] variant
Noble were using the second iteration of Mark V, the S-II’s the fourth
No idea what the third [C] was
quartz willow
Than they started finding out trying to stop it and constantly failing and being pushed no matter what they tried than in the end with "a 1000 thousand other plans tried and failed." they were forced to fire the array
@versed helm
So in total origins is great but the second part is a little iffy
Because the brutes never fought alongside humans against the flood from what we know at leasy
stoic hamlet
Tbf it’s mentioned that it’s not accurate and is just Cortana’s depiction of events
stoic hamlet
She says as much IIRC
obsidian thistle
Erm @stoic hamlet you are getting a lil into theory with your Mark V statement there xD
versed helm
i got what you mean imperial
dreamy quarry
||mr halo dies in endgame||
carmine sleet
Don't click on it
quartz willow
What are you the SCP fo foundation @dreamy quarry
@dreamy quarry that was pretty good
versed helm
i just went to my book store and bought evolutions
quartz willow
Ok you'll have more stories from.soliders @versed helm
@versed helm read dirt first
Great story about a soliders perspective of the entire war
obsidian thistle
Volume 1 and 2 have extra flood stories.
Volume 1 has Soma the Painter which is essentially a prelude to Forerunner trilogy.
Volume 2 has Wages of Sin which has a Prophet go over stuff while the Flood take over High Charity.
quartz willow
Yes
versed helm
i’ve read every book but evolution, and the forerunner ones
quartz willow
Cia391 it also has mona lisa human weakness and I think one other
versed helm
Evolutions is full of truly awesome stories.
stoic hamlet
You’re missing out by not reading Evolutions
quartz willow
Dirt and mona lisa are masterpieces with
Dirt how it depicts a ODSTS perspective of the war
And
Mons lisa depicting the horror of a regular marine fighting the flood
versed helm
Palace Hotel is also amazing, and more steadfast support of gameplay/canon separation.
quartz willow
Yea
stoic hamlet
Headhunters tho
gushes
Going back to shields, could MOLNIR shields tank a Bolter shell?
And yes, I know how hypocritical it is of me to ask that, lol
ashen wharf
I don’t know
I mean they can survive 50cal sniper rounds and plasma shoots so probably.
But in lore bolters a roughly 75cal basically giant round s.
If you mean bolter from wh40k
Not well versed in warhammer lore though.
stoic hamlet
well a Bolter is 20mm, and we've seen shields take tougher hits, but i'm not sure the concussive force/the mass might overload the shield
ashen wharf
I almost sure they could survive a shot
But not many if any more.
Maybe just maybe if there lucky two but don’t think three or more.
stoic hamlet
I mean, they've taken 30mm and even some 50mm autocannon rounds and held, but that's what i mean, the speed and mass and the like might be diferent.
stoic hamlet
John's fall was only 2km, and B312 had a reentry pack.
basically it comes down to does a Bolter shell have more mass than an autocannon
ashen wharf
True
I haven’t read any of the halo novel so I don’t know.
Does anyone know if yapyap the destroyer is canon?
versed helm
there's a twitter?
