UNSC open up
#lore-and-universe
last anchor
They traded with each other and had tourism and stuff for the most part each was self-sufficent
remote spruce
O N I open up
gilded mason
Don't say the ship's name for now. Part of preventing movie spoilers.
gilded mason
"Live and let live"
gilded mason
Same way she deals with everything else, I imagine.
versed helm
I do wonder if we'll ever see the Precursors return
Because i get the feeling that's where we're heading for
subtle depot
Most of the precursors were either killed by the forerunners genocide or turned into the flood. It’s unlikely we’ll see then back in full capacity.
versed helm
Wait..didn't some of them put themselves into suspended animation?
gilded mason
That was what became the Flood.
versed helm
Open request to fate and universe itself.
In future depictions of the MA5 rifle platform, could the rounded magazine baseplate that integrates with the grip be done away with in favour of a design a little closer to the magazine of this? https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/059/034/large/weihao-wei-m6.jpg?1439175583
I don't like the overall aesthetic so much, because it lacks that iconic MA5 profile that's been so distinctive since Halo CE. But the design of the magazine itself is much cooler.
And it's easy to imagine it continuing to extend outwards to accommodate 54 or 60-round extended capacities if needed.
Plus, the sloped bottom as is would severely reduce magazine capacity unless something really funky is going on
lilac palm
@versed helm I also really hope that the MA5 receives its iconic basis.
It would make sense for a weapon such as the MA5 to have a variation developed as of 2559. Like say, the MA5E or MA6A or something like that
obsidian thistle
You do know the MA5D does have numerous variants. ;) Halo 4s and Halo 5s are both different.
Its like how there is 2 M6Ds. The CEA version and the CE/2/5 version.
lilac palm
I know. The Halo 5 Has a MA5D Subvariant that has a part of the top that's removable so to fit various optics
obsidian thistle
Thats the main difference. (Fun fact the H5 Beta didnt have that removable part)
lilac palm
I know! It also had the standard 32 round mag
obsidian thistle
But in general however. Old guns names can come back under "variant" logic
obsidian thistle
The MA5B. Thats a "interesting" case.
lilac palm
I know, The 5B on my part was the worst variant
silver ore
Wut
lilac palm
I know this may seem like heresy but there is reasons
silver ore
That honor belongs to halo 4 assault rifle
obsidian thistle
The CEA version is indeed a MA5B.
lilac palm
Cornchops, Im talking canon wise functionality as a rifle, not how good it was in game.
silver ore
Aight
lilac palm
To begin with, the MA5B was most remarkable for its ammo capacity
60 Rounds of 7.62 FMJ Rounds
That's a lot of extremely powerful bullets
silver ore
Mhm
lilac palm
On Paper, the rifle is revelotionary
(excuse my spelling)
It had great ammo capacity of really poweful rounds. But however, Its drawback was its range, its weight and its maneuverability
obsidian thistle
Fun fact the MA5B had to be physically modified to have a silencer added.
*Something I found by pure chance in the Fall of Reach book
lilac palm
That is also true, unlike the other MA5 variants to the best extent of my knowledge which could just slide one on.
obsidian thistle
Yea I cant wait to start the Halopedia book club and dig deep into all the details the books offer like that.
lilac palm
Your with Halopedia?
sorry, I digress
the MA5B was actually more akin to that of an LMG. In actual function. It was more like an oversized SMG. (Ironic because it shares the same ammo capacity and crosshair that the M7 SMG Does)
obsidian thistle
One of the admins. ;)
obsidian thistle
Glad you think so. Our team and editors try very hard to make sure Halo lore (plus the franchise, though we are working on that) is as detailed as we can get it
lilac palm
You do a well good job
I say the MA5B is more akin to an SMG rather than an LMG in actual function. Because the weapons range was poor, as seen in game
obsidian thistle
I however do wish we had more info on the MA1. That weapon only has 1 single mention.
And its a odd mention at that.
lilac palm
Not too much, the MA1 only mentioned. Honestly, I would like to see some URF Commando's fighting some UNSC Marines with those old rifles. You cant blame your self for lack of info from the lore
The MA5B was also heavy, In Halo: The Flood, John 117 describes the rifle as being 'powerful' but 'heavy' mainly because he was a child in his dream. He couldn't pick it up.
So, it would be heavy to lift for a marine. Let alone a child
I know this is just a simple dream and not a full source of evidence.
The MA5B was also barely capable of reaching 200 metres. Whereas Modern Rifles of today can well exceed 200 metres
That's why I would describe it as an 'Oversized SMG'
obsidian thistle
Do note right now isnt 1 to 1 with Halos right now.
Right now in the Halo universe. Some conspiracy nuts from 2007 have access to a real legit Forerunner server. But dont know what to do with it.
Or know if its real
So with that knowledge
Stuff like weapons we have nowadays may not translate into the Halo universe.
lilac palm
Ah right
the MA5B could be useful for the SPARTAN-IVs if the range was increased
like a variant for SPARTAN OPS
obsidian thistle
I'd say its rather antique compared to later MA5 variants. Especially with the Halo 5 MA5D that has the ability to equip stuff with no need to modify it.
lilac palm
With the New UNSC Weaponry, I would agree, heavily
CIA, What do you think of the Army's variant of the MA5? The MA37?
feral perch
The MA37 is aesthetically the best AR
swift hornet
Isnt the halo ce rifle the most powerful
lilac palm
Stone wall, I agree
feral perch
Most powerful is either Halo 4 or H2A @swift hornet
lilac palm
Agammeon counterpart, I put down a group of flaws why the Halo CE Rifle suffers from. read up.
the MA5D is factually the best AR
feral perch
Makes sense
swift hornet
Oh alright
lilac palm
Yep, I mean. Its even got a modifiyable variant that can fit various scopes when you remove a part of the cover of the AR.
Otherwise the Halo 5 AR
swift hornet
I didnt see that post sorry
lilac palm
Its fine man
lilac palm
It would. The MA5D Assault rifle in H2A is very powerful, (Though A bit glitchy) prehaps a power weapon in itself
obsidian thistle
Tbh its been debated the AR in H2A
I argue its never been named so we cant say its 100% a MA5D.
quartz willow
@swift hornet no halo 5 is because with it depending on the part of the body you shot it does more damage so if you aim for the head than you would shooting at the body
swift hornet
What?
quartz willow
But for sheer amount of rate if fire yes halo ce is best in that department
@swift hornet if you aim for the head your AR will di more damage
In halo 5
I learned that from playing so much infection
swift hornet
We are talking lore
quartz willow
Ohhh lore wise I dont know I would assume so though
I'm more of a technology type lore guy
swift hornet
Lore-wise it depends on the versatility of the AR for it to be the best.
Not on how much power it has.
quartz willow
Yea like I said I have no idea though
modest marsh
All ARs have the MA5B’s fire rate, or at least it should
900rpm
It’s nerfed in game for balance reasons
quartz willow
Ohh
modest marsh
https://halo.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=12234 old source with some suspect information, but here for example
The in game fire rate for the Halo 3 AR is only like 600rpm
quartz willow
Hmmm
modest marsh
Also consider: its possible that the particular assault rifle the player is using has been altered in some way to lessen its rate of fire, which has practical uses
Similarly, the battle rifle is stuck in burst fire mode while the DMR can only fire semi automatic, both of which are select fire weapons capable of full auto
obsidian thistle
Ah the MA5C. Interesting weapon.
modest marsh
Personally, I wish the battle rifle could be dialed to semi auto in campaign so it could compete with the ammo efficiency of the AR or DMR, but I digress
I’m salty that the BR really only has 48 shots despite having 144 total rounds
obsidian thistle
Firing modes would go beyond some folks sadly. Some would legit compare it to CoD and other shooters more closely.
modest marsh
I mean it’s already implemented to some extent
Heck, the BR was planned to support semi auto fire originally
It was cut for some reason
obsidian thistle
The M6D is a good example of firing modes.
modest marsh
Well
obsidian thistle
Did you know holding the trigger will continue to fire the weapon.
modest marsh
Outside of CE, is it really treated an autopistol?
modest marsh
Lore depictions suggest mashing the trigger is the norm
Master Chief’s little stunt in Palace Hotel comes to mind
Tbf, that pistol may have been modified
obsidian thistle
M6D Pistol – This pistol is a recoil-operated, magazine-fed handgun. It issued with a smart-linked scope capable of 2x magnification. It fires 12.7mm semi-armor-piercing, high-explosive rounds. It can shoot either semi-automatic or automatic fire.
Source: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/updates/Hammer-Storm
Palace hotel uses the M6C
Which was the Pistol in Halo 2.
The M6C is a weird weapon which I can go very deep into if you want me too. Cause its got a lot of technical stuff that is only hinted with most M6Cs looking different to the Halo 2 one.
last anchor
I thought that was the D model
fair hazel
I mean I like the MA5D the most
swift hornet
Halo 2 pistol is weak
obsidian thistle
The M6D only appears in Halo 2 via a easter egg in a DLC map.
gilded mason
Such a tease.
obsidian thistle
Yes out of reach via a wall. That said you cant use it even if you did manage to get in though glitches
obsidian thistle
But hey the "upsized" M6C aint that bad a weapon. I mean the fact it was "upsized" for Spartans says a lot.
Plus we see the normal M6C all over the place as a side arm.
fair hazel
halo 2 tombstone
obsidian thistle
That be the box ;)
I believe Halopedia has screenshot of the M6D from Halo 2 somewhere
It was very much a tease
modest marsh
@obsidian thistle the Palace Hotel pistol is stated to be a chrome M6D
obsidian thistle
Hmmm I'll look at the story. Just to be safe.
modest marsh
She looked up from her boots and saw that his hands were no longer empty—his right hand now held a massive hard-chromed M6D, and a spare magazine was in his left. Eight thunderclaps rang out so fast that they bled together into a single long roar.
last anchor
Yep thats the one
modest marsh
I don’t think this is describing the automatic fire mode
He’s just pulling the trigger inhumanly fast
And I guess the action on the slide had been modified to allow for it to shoot that fast without jamming
obsidian thistle
Or he held it.
modest marsh
I don’t know why the text would emphasize the speed at which the bullets were fired if anyone could do that
This entire scene treats every little thing Chief does as impressive
last anchor
Why the hell can I remember little tidbits like that but not stuff from my college classes?
stoic hamlet
It is from Palmers POV so that makes sense
modest marsh
Because this is cool
stoic hamlet
^
last anchor
Also I was re-reading Battle Born and they mention a few miss-fired needler rounds somehow causing an entire warehouse wall to explode.
Last I checked blamite didnt react unless it hit biological material right? It blows up flesh just fine, trees too, but I dunno about non-biolgcal material.
Anyone got cooroboration?
obsidian thistle
Correction. Blamite is stable unless charged
The Needler charges the blamite
To many charged needles close together makes it that the energy cant be discharged fast enough and thus it violently explodes.
Even though a Charged needle can however shatter after the discharge has been done.
@last anchor that help explain stuff.
A explaination would be. If a surface can discharge the shards fast enough they would be no explosion.
If it cant. Boom
last anchor
Concrete wall...got it
modest marsh
Blamite still damages armor
We know of several heavy needler cannons specifically used on vehicles
Which would seem like a bad idea if it only worked on biological material
quartz willow
Yes same with the vampire from halo wars
And why do you think also in halo wars why when a grunt squad is upgraded to needler it does more damage to air
versed helm
I mean, if that has canonical cross-application, it's because of their homing capabilities.
What happened to the buggers?
Plasma weapons would logically be much more effective against armour since they just burn it away.
quartz willow
They mostly went back to their home world after halo 3 @versed helm
A few stayed with the prophets
versed helm
But be careful when drawing canonical conclusions about weapon effects from games.
terse gale
Kelly and Fred's Banshees got shot down by big needler AA guns in the third book
quartz willow
@versed helm see
terse gale
First Strike
versed helm
yeah but the prophets were all dead after Halo 3 though
MA5 assault rifles, for instance, would be highly effective out to very long range. And a single plasma bolt will put down more or less anything that doesn't have a shield and isn't a battle tank.
quartz willow
And if so why would vampires main anti air weapons be blamite instead of plasma
@versed helm no mi or prophets survived but they were called ministers
terse gale
The nasty little needle shards apparently are hell on electronics and equipment
quartz willow
@terse gale yes thus sheild go down very quick to those suckers
versed helm
Is that the case?
I mean, conceivably, I could see a very dense, very fast-moving blamite needle being effective against armour for the same reason a sabot is.
terse gale
Fred and Kelly's Banshees started smoking and basically dropped out of the sky after only catching shrapnel from big Needler AA guns, I'd imagine a direct hit is nasty
The needles are as long as Fred's arm, lol
I'd love to see those in a game
versed helm
Well that'd be the explosive effect, in the First Strike instance.
And blamite flak would be nasty.
terse gale
Shade turrets are fun and whatnot but giant Needler turret>Shade
quartz willow
@terse gale technically they are in halo wars but in halo wars 2 they are not
versed helm
But banshees aren't exactly the most heavily armoured of craft. You can shoot them down with enough accurate fire from an MA5.
quartz willow
@terse gale I'd love to have that
versed helm
Like, there is a canonical instance in The Flood of Chief taking a banshee down with sustained, accurate assault-rifle fire.
terse gale
I did that in Halo CE, lol
versed helm
It's good to have book confirmation. Games do not always equal canon.
More accurately, gameplay elements do not always equal canon.
obsidian thistle
Events are canon.
Gameplay is not.
versed helm
But, that said, a lot of details from TFoR, The Flood and First Strike are slightly dubious themselves.
terse gale
Yeah, like Chief getting stung by a Flood Infection Form and Cortana zapping it with his suit xD
quartz willow
@terse gale yea
versed helm
That's not so bad. It's more sorta Johnson/Chief stuff from First Strike, some technical deets in The Flood, and the bits of TFoR that've been compromised by adaptations.
For instance, The Flood still even in the DE thinks Scorpions have 120mm guns.
terse gale
Wraiths getting taken down by Warthog chainguns
versed helm
Yeah, exactly.
Though on that particular front, who knows. Maybe 12.7mm armour-penetrating ammunition really is no joke.
terse gale
To be fair, they shot the Wraith in the 🍑
versed helm
Tanks are not typically killable by fire from .50 ammunition from any angle.
Though, that said, Wraiths aren't exactly conventional human sorta tanks, and the Covenant have different rules as far as armour-penetrating weaponry goes.
Plasma grenades would be a terrifying threat for any armoured vehicle.
quartz willow
Yes that also being said blamite is also hilariously OP against most vehicles
versed helm
That seems to be an exaggeration
quartz willow
Well against are vehicles at least
terse gale
@versed helm The 🍑 has always been the weakest point on Wraiths
versed helm
But the rear is also the weakest point on any tank - the armour plating is thinner there for weight purposes.
Doesn't mean you can destroy them with weapons that aren't specifically made to kill tanks.
That said, the Wraith clearly has some whacky exhaust shenanigans going on there, so that could be thing.
feral perch
in CE, the Scorpion's main hatch is the weak point lol. You can snipe the driver out of it with a pistol.
terse gale
You can do that in most Halos, I think. Did it on Reach and 4 a lot using the sniper
feral perch
You had to blow off the hatch though.
The multiplayer Scorpion in CE had a grated hatch, meaning you could just shoot right through it.
BTW, does anyone have a link to Frank O'Connor's cryptic tweets about Jun's escape from Reach?
Halopedia apparently doesn't have them, so I thought I'd ask here.
terse gale
Jun escaped and was a recruiter for the S IV program
feral perch
Not what I meant.
I know he survived, I'm more interested in how he survived, and Mr. O'Connor gave some hints.
versed helm
Hey, do multiplayer maps actually serve as canon content or are they just stages with a given description and location?
modest marsh
Most of them are supposed to be real or at least based on a real place
Stuff like Boarding Action from CE probably isn’t canon
@versed helm also Reach just used campaign geometry for the maps
versed helm
Yeah besides Reach which they are obviously canon
But maps like Lockout, Ascension, Guardian, etc
woeful dune
What are the various ideologies of the Sengheili? I would like to write a story about the Sengheili but I don't know the difference between the various militaries. These are what I need to know about;
Seperatist
Imperialist
Loyalist
Traditionalist
Purist
versed helm
For future reference its Sangheili 👌
versed helm
Lol yeah
As of 2557, you've got those that cling onto the Covenant way of life, those who reject it, and those who remain neutral, all of which have a wide spectrum of views towards humanity.
gilded mason
Yup. There are a whole lotta Sangheili out there with just as many viewpoints
fair hazel
multiplayer map locales do serve canon
woeful dune
So those who cling to the Covenant are Imperialists, those who reject it are Seperatists, I would think that Traditionalists go about life and war like the Sangheili did before the Covenant came to Sanghelios
That leaves Purists
Or is there no such ideology in Halo lore
feral perch
Those would be the Ascetics.
woeful dune
What are Ascetics?
gilded mason
gilded mason
I've only ever heard Loyalist refer to those that continued following the Covenant during the last days of the war.
versed helm
I think the thing to remember about multiplayer map locales serving canon is that they may be edited for the purposes of war games, or because the scans were incomplete or partially recreated, or any number of reasons.
ONI censorship, even.
woeful dune
So Loyalists are pretty much Imperialists?
feral perch
I don't think any Sangheili remained loyal to the Prophets after the Great Schism.
versed helm
"Imperialist" isn't really a useful term in Halo's context. The Covenant was an empire, but the beliefs on which it was founded are more important.
gilded mason
I don't think any Sangheili remained loyal to the Prophets after the Great Schism.
It would be mighty silly, yeah.
feral perch
Yeah. In Silent Storm, one Sangheili didn't know what the term "Imperialism" meant.
modest marsh
Smh are you suggesting that there isn’t a box canyon on Installation 04 that has opposing, color coded bases and weapons and vehicles just laying around @versed helm
Why would anyone occupy those bases anyway
gilded mason
Timeshare
modest marsh
You’d need some long winded explanation from some sort of animated series spanning nearly two decades to even begin to explain that
gilded mason
I want to be correct with the terminology
I don't think it's really hard terminology, anyway. Just general terms for how some beings might tend to behave.
modest marsh
I mean, despite being entirely inaccurate, the term Storm Covenant did a good job of conveying who it is was being discussed
gilded mason
Eh, I can see why Jul named it simply "The Covenant" since he wanted it to be seen as a direct successor, but it does make things just a bit more confusing.
feral perch
At least it could be referred to as such by the UNSC and/or the Swords of Sanghelios
woeful dune
How was a Fleet under the Covenant formed? What was the process that the Prophets went through to decide what Elite would be allowed to lead a Fleet? How did they decide what troops would be given to the newly named Fleet Master?
gilded mason
There might be information on that here:
https://www.halopedia.org/Covenant_fleet
remote spruce
feral perch
Thanks!
quartz willow
@woeful dune Look up Keppers of the one freedom they are a loyalist faction of sangheili and brutes but mainly brutes
versed helm
Hey! i'm back, whats the discussion of lore today?
versed helm
I want Rtas back
Did you guys know that the Halos destroyed all Precursor artifacts in the galaxy?
hardy goblet
Yup, but probably not in other galaxies 😉
quartz willow
Yes they gone
autumn urchin
Do people eat moas in reach
carmine sleet
Moa Burgers are a delicacy on Reach
versed helm
Oddly enough that's not the first time I've heard that
Wonder if it tastes like beef
hardy goblet
More like chicken. no ?
versed helm
Given it's a bird it might taste like chicken or turkey but that would suck as a burger lol
hardy goblet
Good old CBO
versed helm
CBO?
quartz willow
Have smoa @autumn urchin
autumn urchin
What about gutas
hardy goblet
Chicken Bacon Onion from McDonalds lol
quartz willow
@autumn urchin idk but I'd assume they were to dangerous to kill
versed helm
could the rookie of been labeled as “hyper lethal”
carmine sleet
No because they weren't anywhere near as good of a soldier as Chief or Six. Sure, if he had lived, he would've had the opportunity to be a Spartan, but he was never at the level of being classed hyper lethal
quartz willow
Xytan 'Jar Wattinree is best elite change my mind
carmine sleet
Arbiter says hi
quartz willow
No The Imperial Admiral Xytan 'Jar Wattinree js best elite
stoic hamlet
Yis
quartz willow
Thank you sir
lilac palm
A part of me thinks that he deserved to have had a better death. But I also think that its only fair that he was killed by a UNSC Admiral of the same amount of awesomely. VADM Danforth Whitcomb.
quartz willow
@lilac palm admiral whitcomb is best human nonsupersolider in the galaxy change my mind
lilac palm
I will not sir
quartz willow
A man of culture as well @lilac palm
lilac palm
because he is
quartz willow
Yes
feral perch
the UNSC should just use NOVAs on everything
gilded mason
pls no
carmine sleet
That's the worst idea
feral perch
if by worst
you really mean best
heh, they should use NOVAs on Cortana
NOVA the Domain
carmine sleet
It's really not a good idea. NOVA bombing planets would destroy them and make them uninhabitable
carmine sleet
Sarcasm doesn't come across in text at all
feral perch
True
but the ridiculousness of the statement
and the benefit of the doubt concerning common sense...
well, in today's world, maybe those two just don't work like they used to.
quartz willow
N9 they dont and pls no more nova bombs
versed helm
@quartz willow is scared of nova bombs after the last incident
versed helm
grunt + Nova bomb= Kaboom @quartz willow
quartz willow
Ummmmmmm
quartz willow
@versed helm I'm not scared of the grunt but the other thing
raw kiln
most brutes became beggars after they lost the war excluding the banashed
gilded mason
Where'd you hear that?
feral perch
What about the Keepers of the One Freedom? And the Banished? And the Brutes from Envoy?
gilded mason
feral perch
Did the Covenant vessels use cryopods, or did the efficiency of their slipspace drives remove the need for periods of hibernation?
quartz willow
@feral perch I dont believe they use cryo pods if they are making a very long distance jump they use stasis
feral perch
Ah, interesting..
autumn urchin
Whats stasis?
unique rune
/ˈstāsis/
noun
a period or state of inactivity or equilibrium.
"long periods of stasis"```
viscid sphinx
Ive been listening to the fall of reach audiobook and ive noticed that it presents the hunters and elites as species never seen by the unsc before
this was obviously retconned come halo wars, but im wondering how canon the book is?
gilded mason
It was re-released several years back to include them earlier in the war.
viscid sphinx
so im listening to the old version then
gilded mason
Seems so
viscid sphinx
is there any other change i should be aware of due to the re-release
gilded mason
👍
quartz willow
Good day fellow lore boys
obsidian thistle
Tis a good day to lore.
obsidian thistle
Were it so easy. But one could discuss Arbiters.
obsidian thistle
One could say that. I love how his methods were similar to the Banisheds
versed helm
He cared about victory, and glory more than honor, it's rare for an elite
they care about honor more than most things
Atriox only wanted revenge, and power, which comes back to my previous statement about Ripa
obsidian thistle
He also wanted to tune the Scarab beams to be more powerful. In turn that would risk killing the Lekgolo inside running it.
Which is something the Banished actually do.
obsidian thistle
Legacy characters are cool also.
versed helm
I feel forges warthog, and Johnsons mech suit are fairly weak
Jeromes mech, and omega team alltogether is pretty powerful
quartz willow
Yea bur omega team takes a whooping 3p population
carmine sleet
It does
versed helm
darn leon always dies first
quartz willow
Yea cause hes a easy target for anything not on the ground
The only way he can defend himself is hijacking a enemy vehicle to defend against air
Also do you guys know when the rail gun was created
limpid meadow
I don't recall the railgun being given a date of creation
versed helm
im more curious if we're referring to the handheld form, or the overall weapon in practice
fair hazel
However from battle born. There was a prototype in 2548 was it?
limpid meadow
However, there was a prototype railgun in the Nazari's saferoom in "Halo: Battle Born", so it looks like it's a post-war weapon
Yep
fair hazel
I do wonder what kind of differences the prototype and production model have
limpid meadow
Nothing explicitly mentioned in the book as I recall
versed helm
one could imagine the variances in MJOLNIR to ORION's exosuit
limpid meadow
Seemed to work just like the H4/5 versions
versed helm
im just imagining it being massive and unwieldly
the size of a SPNKR but with a helluva lot more kick
fair hazel
Probably bigger if I had to speculate and more limiting with more limited electronics and maybe ergonomics.
versed helm
that or it could have a bi, or even tripod attached
limpid meadow
The railgun?
versed helm
yeah, the prototype
limpid meadow
The prototype was pretty much just like it's H4/5 version
versed helm
visually?
fair hazel
I don’t remember too much in description other than the general@shape
heady quest
space cavemen
quartz willow
I'm talking about the handheld one
So if it was a prototype in 2548 than wouldn't that mean that the spartan that's in halo wars 2 who uses it isn't canon if it was a prototype then
versed helm
um
carmine sleet
Wait? You mean August of Omega Team?
Because if so, while the members of Omega Team are canon, their appearance in Halo Wars 2 is not
limpid meadow
^^^
quartz willow
@carmine sleet yes I mean August so where would they be as of now In the halo universe
carmine sleet
Unknown
limpid meadow
Omega survived the war, so August could easily use a railgun as her primary weapon
versed helm
supposedly alive, but unknown
technically even if the appearance in the game is non-canon, the weapon choice and design currently could be
that could be what August uses as her loadout in any type of given sortie if she is still alive
limpid meadow
That's the implication, yeah
versed helm
some people have issues with implications tho, so you gotta specifically state
limpid meadow
Yeah
versed helm
it was a for-the-record case
warm wigeon
so that means that Major Da'silva was an idiot for thinking that the 2s were endangered close to extinction
as well as a rude bigot
versed helm
well, there wasnt a lot of them to begin with
limpid meadow
And to Silva's knowledge, there weren't a lot left.
Many went missing only to show up after the war ended
warm wigeon
@limpid meadow Halo Canon is that you Dude its Commander Rex-7567
versed helm
so you have to think 40-ish made it through aug procedures, several died.
limpid meadow
It is I
limpid meadow
@versed helm 33 survived initially, we're probably looking at at least another 15 successfully-reaugmented
warm wigeon
@limpid meadow send me a friend invite
versed helm
was it 33?
limpid meadow
Yeah
versed helm
are you including washouts?
limpid meadow
33 augmented, 12 crippled, 30 "killed"
versed helm
yeh, i was including washouts
versed helm
33 graduated
limpid meadow
45 "survived" with 30 being "killed" then
Yeah, 33 graduated
God, I keep typed "343" when I try to type "33", lol
versed helm
wait....was the 33 before or after washouts who were able to go through procedures again made it
e.g. jerome and co.
god, this is what i get for not keeping up with Halo lore for 4-ish years and focusing on Warframe Lore theorycrafting instead
limpid meadow
33 were initially augmented successfully
12 were crippled, 30 reported dead.
Of those 45 washouts, some were successfully resuscitated (if they'd been reported dead) and fully augmented between 2526 and 2530 (if I recall correctly)
I would estimate at least 15 re-augmented Spartans, if not more, to make the Spartan numbers work out
warm wigeon
@limpid meadow so i posted my theory for Cortana returning in Halo Infinite as a Good Guy and at the same time remaining as the main antagonist on Halo Waypoint under my Gamertag Lovable Rumble43
stoic hamlet
Though initially I hated the idea of bringing back II’s so 343 could bring in more Spartans it does help explain how the III’s augments are so good.
Not that we ever needed an explanation or anything, but meh
versed helm
i feel like that statement went in 3 directions at once
what do S-III's augments have to do with bringing back S-II's?
stoic hamlet
Nothing
limpid meadow
There's a theory that the augmentation used on the IIIs were developed from advancements used to re-augment S-II washouts
stoic hamlet
^^
carmine sleet
I could buy that theory being the case
versed helm
ah, that's a better way to say it then lol
limpid meadow
So you'd have the initial S-II augmentations, some more advanced ones used on some washouts, then the III chemical augmentations
Seems like a nice timeline 😃
stoic hamlet
Well, I don’t ascribe to that per se, just that they were able to have such a great success rate because of the reaugmentation.
The “washout augmentation” was a test bed for the III’s, essentially
warm wigeon
@limpid meadow seems more like fact than theory
stoic hamlet
It’s not been confirmed
limpid meadow
^^^
warm wigeon
give it time
versed helm
i mean, it would 100% be used as data to research it, provided any actual advancements were made to the procedure used on washouts
stoic hamlet
Additionally the washouts being made Spartans is relatively recent, whereas the amazing augmentation success rate of the III’s has been known since their inception.
Thus fans “retconned in” that this is why
versed helm
but if it was, in fact, the same process, then it wouldnt have added any extra data
define "recent"
stoic hamlet
IIRC we didn’t know about re-augmented washouts until the leadup to HW2, if it was sooner it wasn’t any sooner than 2013 at the earliest.
versed helm
i recall that data being much older than that
limpid meadow
It was first mentioned in Halsey's journal in 2010
stoic hamlet
Still long after the III’s introduction to the lore
limpid meadow
Yeah
stoic hamlet
Ah, thanks @limpid meadow
versed helm
yeah, thats what i recalled as well
limpid meadow
HW2 was where we got our first confirmation, and then the recent Spartan Manual gave us the timeline
stoic hamlet
^ is what I meant.
It was only a theory prior to that
limpid meadow
Somewhat.
Halsey's journal does directly talk about fixing up the washouts and even a few being fielded.
warm wigeon
@limpid meadow did you read my earlier ping
limpid meadow
I think I missed it
warm wigeon
@limpid meadow so i posted my theory for Cortana returning in Halo Infinite as a Good Guy and at the same time remaining as the main antagonist on Halo Waypoint under my Gamertag Lovable Rumble43
back in 2018
limpid meadow
Ok
warm wigeon
its under Halo Infinite story ideas could you take a look at its plausiability
@rocky totem yo
obsidian thistle
Dont be randomly tagging the bots please.
warm wigeon
ok sorry
obsidian thistle
That said however. I tbh doubt Cortana can come back from how far she went in Halo 5.
Halo 4 is like her downfall. And Halo 5 is like her road down the path Halo 4 left her.
versed helm
what happens when you tag them?
remote spruce
Oh shoot the bot is still in effect whoops
obsidian thistle
Regardless. Who can really trust Cortana now? I mean the route she went in Halo 5 made her public enemy number 1.
limpid meadow
I'd be disappointed if Cortana were redeemed or "became good again"
versed helm
Cortana in H5 is simply a stabilized rampant fragment of the original Cortana that was purged into the Didact's ship in H4
so it wouldnt seem logical to have a change that great unless halsey played a part in it
limpid meadow
As much as Halo 5 may "ruin" Halo 4's ending (debatable), having her be redeemed would completely spit in the face of that sacrifice
It would just be returning to the status quo, as if nothing ever happened
carmine sleet
Agreed, I hope they don't go down the route of redemption or anything like that
versed helm
she attacked the infinity, i don’t think that they will forgive that
gilded mason
she attacked the infinity, i don’t think that they will forgive that
That's kinda one of the lesser things she's done
versed helm
y'know, apart from EMP'ing the entirety of earth and other planets
killing thousands by activating the guardians
i mean, it’s the flagship of the UNSC and also has like 400 spartans onboard, and the guardians and all that also yea
obsidian thistle
Tbh even ignoring post-2559 lore. In a narrative point of view she has sealed her fate.
versed helm
throwing a pebble at a UNSC ship could be considered "attacking" it
it would become repetitive if she didn’t die or became good again
remote spruce
Flipyap did it
versed helm
i would be annoyed
limpid meadow
I want to see John crush her in his gauntleted fist like the Warden predicted
obsidian thistle
You know I do wonder how the Warden will be dealt with.
remote spruce
Warden gets tired of people coming over and joins the UNSC
versed helm
@versed helm no but the chip could still possibly retrieve her
remote spruce
Gotta respect Warden's boundaries
versed helm
something something, John retrieves her into the chip, they have words, she accepts her fate, he crushes the chip in his hand
the holo projection flickers and dies
something along those lines
that is true, how will/can they kill warden?
the system
they'd have to find his mind
John Halo gonna suck her into the chip like a Ghost Buster
remote spruce
Warthog run but the ending scene is Chief accidentally running over Cortana's chip
versed helm
y'know. i could see a parody like that
Odd One Out style
could a hunter 1v1 warden? i wanna see that
quartz willow
Probably not
versed helm
or atriox vs warden
they need to add a forerunner hero to HW2
i mean, spartans could probably attack warden head on, hunters do a lot more than spartans
quartz willow
Did you see how many elites and grunts and jackals took out on the mission with blue team meeting him
versed helm
in halo 5, you can assasinate warden eternal, and also you dodge a couple of his hits
NGL @versed helm a Ur-Didact leader in halo wars would be rad
Could a hunter vore Sarah Palmer?
Asking for a friend
warden as a super nit
unit
or however
what Rate oversaw the Warden?
what is it your asking? i dont understand
Forerunner Rates
the caste system of the Forerunner
e.g. Promethean, Builder, Lifeworker, etc
forerunner are tier 1?
limpid meadow
The Warden Eternal was a Promethean construct
versed helm
ah, i assumed so since he took command of the Prometheans
so yeah, warden would make sense as a Super-unit
what tier level are the ancient humans
quartz willow
Isn't teir 0 theocratial
limpid meadow
Yeah
limpid meadow
That's Transcendent. Precursor
remote spruce
I hope the Prometheans return, with their Warzone variants
limpid meadow
I imagine we should expect an overhaul on the Prometheans
quartz willow
Ok cause I was watching a video in halos tech tiers and it was saying the precursors possibly attained tier 0
versed helm
god just hopefully not a halo 4 to halo 5 level change like we had with Knights
are covenant tier 2?
remote spruce
Overhaul gameplay, but I'm actually ok with most of their designs
limpid meadow
Tier 0 was basically the Forerunner way of saying "anything more advanced than us", which only Precursors fall into
I liked the weakpoints
limpid meadow
Made the Prometheans much more fun to fight
versed helm
but forcing them was kinda eh
limpid meadow
Prometheans in Halo 4 were just unengaging as hell
remote spruce
5's Knights made other means of attack useless
versed helm
hunters are a good balance, you can technically take one out without shooting the flesh
remote spruce
No melee, no splatter, no grenade
versed helm
knights are so weak compared to halo 4
limpid meadow
Knights in 5 are must stronger than in H4
remote spruce
The weakpoints are a good addition but they seem to be the only good way to attack
versed helm
what tier level could the flood be?
carmine sleet
I feel like the Knights need to have more movement alongside those weakpoints, like, I'd love to see them teleport about like they did in Halo 4 again
remote spruce
Can't even ground pound iirc
quartz willow
The only promethean I hated was the solider cause only human weapons are really effective against them and missions where you werent on a human world you dont get enough human ammo
limpid meadow
Soldiers in general were just bad
remote spruce
4's Knights had that pointless teleport but I genuinely think they are ok for gameplay
versed helm
Teleporting wouldn't be as much of an issue if they didn't have shields.
Its the fact that they can regen to full health that made it annoying in 4.
i didnt like how repetitive the teleport was
limpid meadow
Boring humanoid design and no interesting movement or engagement strategies
remote spruce
Soldiers are Halo 3 Brutes but MLG dialogue instead of ape
versed helm
but it made sense every once in a while
quartz willow
Yes I liked it in halo 4 how instead of a whole new promethean for sniping it was a crawler
versed helm
or a knight
quartz willow
A speacilized variant have you mind though
versed helm
what keeps all their parts form floating away?
carmine sleet
There were also Knights that could snipe in Halo 4 as well
versed helm
more balanced than 5 binary knights at once
remote spruce
Watchers should use environment to their advantage
Like have them throw a box at you
versed helm
...im looking at you spartan ops
quartz willow
Yea soliders removed the need for me speacilized prometheans
versed helm
they have a brain? they seem like AI
limpid meadow
They're all AI, yes
limpid meadow
No
limpid meadow
They're digitize minds
versed helm
the same way the monitors are
limpid meadow
Only 343 GS as far as we know
quartz willow
Which suck because while crawler snipers can be a pain on legendary it was a very cool degree of specialization we saw with them and the knight but adding soliders removed the knight that had a light rifle never encountered one in halo 5 they dont have suppressors they only have power weapons
Which to me begs the question why werent the solider variants used on requiem
humble yacht
Well
versed helm
they were used primarily to attack the flood correct?
humble yacht
Mendicant Bias was sentient
limpid meadow
Monitors existed well before the composer
humble yacht
but he wasn't made via composer
limpid meadow
Not necessarily
humble yacht
so I don't think the Composer is necessary for sentient AI
versed helm
they just werent all biological originally
quartz willow
Uea they monitored things like the maginot line
versed helm
Biological =/= sentient
humble yacht
I think Promethean Soldiers could also be sentient
The Warden certainly seems sentient
limpid meadow
Sorry, things got a little confusing up there
versed helm
as soon as something can think for itself, and understand that it exists, it gains sentience
Soldiers and Crawlers are sentient as well
limpid meadow
Didn't mean to imply biological meant sentient
Soldiers and crawlers and not sentient
humble yacht
I think it came across as "had to once be biological to be sentient"
versed helm
Crawlers have shown to interact with each other
limpid meadow
They just follow programming
humble yacht
sentience is self awareness
versed helm
^
humble yacht
A soldier is not aware that it exists?
they're able to insult you while shooting at you
limpid meadow
Eh, I guess it would be
remote spruce
MLG
humble yacht
Forerunners had advanced AI after all
limpid meadow
I thought Olive was asking about sapience
versed helm
Smart AI are Sentient as well
humble yacht
even before they started using composers
limpid meadow
Yeah
humble yacht
oh, yeah, sapience is different
remote spruce
Soldiers learned English from listening to recordings of human video gamers in the 21st century
versed helm
only high-level constructs show sapience
humble yacht
I could see MB having sapience and sentience
versed helm
soldiers would be a modicum of high-level
humble yacht
but OB probably only had sentience
versed helm
since they were composed
versed helm
werent they?
humble yacht
nope
limpid meadow
Only Knights were composed
limpid meadow
Crawlers and Solderis are basically "dumb" AI
humble yacht
It would have made alot of sense for them to have been composed humans, but nope
versed helm
oh yeah, nvm. i was getting it confused with the knight variants
soldiers are made to basically die no?
quartz willow
I have question why werent the soliders used in requiem then.
versed helm
they threw a lot at us to begin with
humble yacht
XD
versed helm
what were sentinels used for primarily?
limpid meadow
Soldiers weren't made to fight the Flood like the Crawlers, Watchers, and Knights
versed helm
repairs and maintenance
quartz willow
@versed helm scouting as well
obsidian thistle
Soldiers however do have some intelligence to them seeing as they can interact with insults that are well versed to the modern human.
limpid meadow
The Soldiers seen in H5 were newly constructed
quartz willow
Such as "My quick scopes are dank."comment one of them.says
limpid meadow
2555
humble yacht
though at that time, the term "soldier" wasn't used yet
quartz willow
That's more reasonable but I'm guessing back than they were classified as a type of sentinel by the unsc
limpid meadow
So the Armigers on the Ark weren't Soldier-Armigers
humble yacht
My question is, did they teleport to the Ark, or were they there the whole time?
versed helm
could a basic marine beat a soldier?
limpid meadow
There the whole time
quartz willow
Probably not @versed helm
limpid meadow
They had different duties
versed helm
odst?
quartz willow
@versed helmmaybe
warm wigeon
@limpid meadow care to weigh in
quartz willow
Odsts have augmentations but nothing like a spartan it's only to help with the extreme pressure from falling inside the atmosphere
humble yacht
Well I guess, why did we only see Sentinel-type armigers during the battle of installation 00?
limpid meadow
ODSTs aren't augmented at all
quartz willow
i thought they had a few augmentations just nothing comparable to spartans
limpid meadow
In the background doing other stuff, or in storage
versed helm
i think they had that crystal gel layer to help the impact of falls
limpid meadow
@quartz willow No augmentations at all
humble yacht
If the answer is "in storage", I'd find that to be asinine
quartz willow
Ok
humble yacht
you leave them in storage during a Flood breach, but break them out when a few humans come to the ark?
limpid meadow
I'm almost certain they were just off with different duties
quartz willow
Well than on the ark with the soliders they are probably a non combat form of the solider or they probably would be aiding the sentinels in combat
limpid meadow
Armigers weren't made to fight the Flood, as I said before
humble yacht
here's another interesting thought:
limpid meadow
Sentinels were
quartz willow
Against the banished and the SoF
humble yacht
Tragic Solitude was a character invented after 343 took the reins of Halo
humble yacht
But in the Halo 3 terminals, Guilty Spark is conversing with some other AI on the Ark
limpid meadow
It just wasn't named and developed
quartz willow
I thought he was mentioned in the halo 3 terminals
humble yacht
See, I always thought it was MB
limpid meadow
Nope, different AI
humble yacht
esp given that it described itself as "all our makers once held dear"
versed helm
there was one point that MB was conversing using the terminals
limpid meadow
It has a different glyph
versed helm
as it specifically had the initials MB
quartz willow
No mendicant is mentioned in the terminals
humble yacht
Mendicant indentifies himself explicitly in the final H3 terminal
on Installation 08
humble yacht
aka Installation 04b
limpid meadow
The replacement Halo
quartz willow
Ok
limpid meadow
Officially it's called Installation 08
humble yacht
yeah i kno
quartz willow
I just call it 4b or 4c
limpid meadow
I know
versed helm
4c
humble yacht
I always thought 4b sounded better
limpid meadow
That was directed at Admiral
versed helm
wat
quartz willow
For the 9th one
limpid meadow
I like 08 better
quartz willow
Ok
versed helm
ah
limpid meadow
And the one from HW2 is Installation 09
versed helm
yeah
humble yacht
calling it 04b makes it obvious that its status is a replacement
limpid meadow
Basically, the numbers denote the construction order
versed helm
if it had a serialized designation it could end up xxxxxx09-4c etc
limpid meadow
09 is the serial number
quartz willow
The names are weird because 04 is called alpha halo so to me it would make me think it was built first
versed helm
good middle ground, but to my knowledge it doesnt exist for forerunner structures
limpid meadow
Installations 08 and 09 are both called Alpha Halo, though
versed helm
it's not even the largest either lol
limpid meadow
The "Alpha, beta, Gamma" designations denote firing order
humble yacht
Alpha Halo was the UNSC designation
limpid meadow
Nope
humble yacht
:/
quartz willow
So is what Anders said In halo wars 2 canon about their always being a replacement halo inside the ark
limpid meadow
Alpha is the Halo's "name"
boreal bane
08 and 09 make sense to me, order of creation / off the production line
humble yacht
that doesn't make sense since it was the 4th ring made
quartz willow
Yea but forerunners
limpid meadow
That's why Installation 05 is "Delta Halo". If the Alpha and Delta were Human designations, that would mean Installation 05 was the 4th Halo found
versed helm
yeah
humble yacht
I guess
limpid meadow
4th made, but first to fire when the Array is lit
quartz willow
9h
versed helm
it's possible they could have changed firing order
quartz willow
Ok makes much more sense
humble yacht
That's overly convoluted
versed helm
it is
it's possible they used their original strategic blueprints though
planned to make 7 and denoted which would fire in which order prior
humble yacht
What if you fire the array from Delta Halo like Tartarus tried to do?
quartz willow
But you didnt answer my question is what Anders said in HW2 teue that there is a almost always finished ring inside the ark at all times or was that just a plot device?
humble yacht
then the first to fire is Delta, and that designation loses its meaning
limpid meadow
Not really, no
quartz willow
So that was just a plot Device so they could show have a way back home
limpid meadow
If Delta fires first, then Epsilon goes next
versed helm
343's ring gets destroyed he's just like "Oh Imma go to Jared and get a new ring"
limpid meadow
And so on.
versed helm
then exuberant witness sees the logs and is like "oh, he went to Jared"
it doesnt function like that
quartz willow
It was a joke about that one diamond ring company
versed helm
well, jewelers, but yeah
trail mica
Guys where do I find out what I can about Mendicant Bias?
He is mentioned everywhere but I’ve read a lot of the human-covenant war era novels and he’s only been mentioned in Contact Harvest and not even by name
feral perch
The Forerunner trilogy, by Greg Bear
versed helm
or that^^
feral perch
also halopedia
versed helm
halopedia for quick info
how much calories do spartans consume?
i’m assuming like at least 5,000 calories
Funny enough, just found a huge error on Halopedia. There was headcanon info on the M52B page.
The page got totally overhauled.
It's pretty whacky.
halopedia is 97% of the time accurate
It's much better now though https://www.halopedia.org/M52B_body_armor
Though apparently more edits are coming.
Apparently the Halo 3 version doesn't retcon the Halo 2 version of Marine armour. Who coulda seen that coming?
They both pop up in Halo: Uprising together.
So Halo 2 Marines, probably still canon.
Alongside Halo 2 Anniversary Marines xD
Though in a realistic sense, in-universe all the armour pieces, uniforms, vests and various bits of webbing are probably interchangable anyway.
And if-anything, the Halo Encyclopedia calling the Halo 3 armour M52B is probably a dubious source. If anything, it seems to have come from speculation on pre-2009 Halopedia.
And the Halo Encyclopedia is notorious for saying really silly things and being canonically superseded.
Though overt clarification from 343 regarding which UNSC body armor systems are M52B, which are others and what their designations are, and why all the versions exist in-universe would be so great. It'd really help clean up the relevant pages on Halopedia, which are sooo gross rn. UNSC gear and body armor is probably the most convoluted and contradictive bit of technical and aesthetic lore in the entire Halo sphere. Except possibly for Covenant gear xD
So far, as far as we know, basically every version is still canon and most of them are separate from one another.
We don't even have names for most of them, letalone reasoning. Which I personally would love.
It's further complicated by the designation scheme. Halo 2 Marines have an M52B cuirass/waistband assembly, VZG7 armoured boots and a CH252 helmet, worn with un-named pauldrons and one of many styles of utility uniform undeneath. Obviously that makes sense, and I like it, but it raises serious questions when you're trying to discern what is and what isn't a certain bit of armour.
And then you've got the variants with underlying vests and all sorts of supplemental armour and gubbinz.
Do all the variants we've seen have distinct designations, even as far down as boots? Are the vests considered part-and-parcel of the torso plating, or as I suspect, are they probably more general-use vests designed to be attached with many variants of plating, a-la Halo 4/5 marines? Are both the Halo 2 and 3 Marines actually canon, and are their designations actually shared, as far as boots and the boots, helmet and torso armour go?
Sorry for the random wall of text. Just thought I'd use this channel to see if anyone has any thoughts on all this and vent a little internal noise from the discussions on the Halopedia server.
i’m pretty certain even the boots are different
Y'know, at this point I'd even settle for a "the Halo 3 Marine BDU's components do not share designations with the Halo 2 Marine BDU's components". The fact that we have to treat two entirely different pieces of kit like they've got the same name really ticks me off.
Or vice-versa, I guess. but that means the Halo 3 and Halo 3 ODST crates are non-canon. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but if H3 and ODST aren't getting anniversary re-dos then why break their aesthetic canon more?
I'd be perfectly happy to accept that every model of chestplate/cuirass, helmet, pauldron, thighplate, shinguard/armoured boot, forearm protector, uniform, visor, eyepiece, uniform and whatever else all have different name designations and we don't know any of them except this M52B, whichever one it actually is. That would be totally cool, and consistent with 343's sorta general technicalities approach.
But this darn Halo Encyclopedia is the bane of my existence. If it's not fudging dates and numbers and trying to rationalize obviously gameplay-specific elements, it's copying off Halopedia when it was basically just a fanon (with really dumb fan material) or saying stuff like the MA5-series has a range of 300m - which, for a futuristic 7.62x51 assault rifle with a barrel that would damn-near approach 80cm or more that seems to be designed to work optimally with advanced HUD-based impact-predictive targeting systems, is ridiculous. Unless 300m is like, what is commonly considered by UNSC troops to be your maximum effective range when engaging Covenant troops, which would make sense but there's no precedent for.
im pretty sure the ratings for MAF were rated against humans
Well, luckily the books contradict what the Encyclopedia says anyway.
as 300m would indeed be the MAF for a human target, and insurrectionists still exist
the books have errors themselves
Contact Harvest's training sequences, for one. The ODSTs fighting their way uphill in Silent Storm.
Many engagements in The Flood.
the encyclopedia was also revised twice
and some of the original books were as well
Yeah, nah. The thing is still in the 2011 version.
As are many of the errors.
the 2011 version still has several errors as well
Actually, y'know what? Mama Lopez took an MA5 burst to the chest and point-blank range and it did squat.
300m makes sense as a reliable range at which you can reliably hit a human repeatedly enough to stop them if they've got that kind of protection.
The one round that got past her chestplate in the motion comic bounced off the buckle and went through the undervest.
So point taken.
the reason the M52B is shared among the games is because it's a standard issue, there can be variants of a single model, it's not uncommon
the reason it doesnt have a different designation is due to family lines
other armors have their own designations as well
Hey, headcanon whatever you want on that front. I'm talking from the perspective of what you're allowed to say for absolute, 100% canonical certainty.
Halopedia rules.
And as it stands, we have to treat two very different versions as M52B, and none others.
im not even speaking from headcanon
they can be entirely different and still be the same line
I mean, that's the route we've gone with. But I disagree.
In a realistic sense, looking at body armour.
it's not even a route
that's how industry works
you have a specific serial number, then you have a revision
Not only do you have individual names for the plates, you've got individual names for the plate carriers and every possible component.
If a thing has different capabilities, ergonomic revisions and even production place and year, it'll have a designation change. That is important.
So logically speaking, you wouldn't call two armour plates M52B.
at most it'll have a model change, but not designation
same with ODST BDU's
it's also a point about the age of the game having an effect on the visual styling
That doesn't factor in, in-universe.
As it stands, both versions exist, and that's that.
And I can't say I understand your rationale regarding the model change. Like, we're dealing with completely different armour systems here - the Halo 2 one is two-component full abdomen protection system with integrated inwards-facing padding.
The Halo 3 version is a chestplate and backplate attached to a big vest.
you can see examples of revisions that follow the same example in today's society
they'll change it near completely but then leave the designation the same
simply referred to as a newer model
with a different serial
Even if they're rated to take the same punishment, maintence-wise and ergonomics-wise they're totally different. It'd be like calling an F90 and an AR-15 by the same name because they're both chambered in 5.56.
not quite but ok.
Let's just examine the designation a little closer though.
M52B - clearly, we're looking at the B variant of an existing M52 model, right?
or previously existing, yes
I'm having trouble suspending my disbelief to extent that if the changes were that big, they wouldn't just revise the model number. At the very least, you'd be looking at an M52(A), M52B, M52C situation between models that are this distinct.
Like, M52 could be to do with their materials and the technology used to make them, and A-B-C could be the ergonomic variants.
Unless we're looking at an M52B Mod 1, M52B Mod 2 situation, which is very contrived and doesn't exactly strike me as 343's style.
this kinda predates 343 though, doesnt it?
We can't infer that such a system was in-place pre-343 if it was never clarified.
we also cant rule it out either
That's flawed logic. Not making stuff up takes precedent over not discounting things that you've made up.
obviously, but the halo bible exists, and with it most details. so we cant say for sure either way
and it, for the most part, predates 343
last anchor
By far
versed helm
Let's take a step back and look at the out-of-universe context, right? So clearly, what's happened, is that the guy making the crate put M52B on it, and it looks like the Halo 2 version, right? So after that, going into Halo 3, one of two things happened. One - they just re-used the crate because it was easy. Two - they specifically intended for the Halo 3 armour to be a new version, and the crates existed to show that.
Then, the guy getting info for the Halo Encyclopedia happens across the Halopedia page. One of two things happens now - either he just straight-up adopts the fan opinion and isn't corrected, or he decides that the Halo 2 variant is no longer canon. Meanwhile, the artists of Uprising are busy drawing Halo 2 and 3 Marines side by side, and those M52B crates in Halo 3 are still probably canonically valid even today because of the lack of an Anniversary version.
Granted, Uprising does predate the Encyclopedia. But that's the realistic approach.
wasnt H2A's M52B somewhat modernized version of the H3 variant?
No, it was the totally distinct Halo Wars variant, and it's not M52B.
'modernized' in terms of visual fidelity
eh
The Halo 3 variant and the Halo Wars variant canonically co-exist.
Halo Legends Origins II shows it.
🤷
Actually, going off your logic, it may be M52B.
nop. look at it
compare it with the h2a marine model
it's just a high-poly version
it looks similar because blur studios lol
Are you saying the H3 version is the low-poly version?
Because if you are, we've left the canonical playing field Halopedia can operate on.
We can't say anything's a retcon unless it's explicit, because that's subjective.
halo 2 vs halo 2 Anniversary
i was strictly comparing those two in that statement
343 has gone on-record saying Anniversary variants of things exist alongside their classic ones.
Relating to banshees, specifically.
The Anniversary games aren't the retcon games.
ignoring most of the variants on the right, including Forge and Keyes
Sorry, I'm not catching what you're trying to say.
Mind explicitly laying it out for me?
just comparing halo 2 to halo wars
they didnt include H2A, but you can tell they're vastly different
Trust me, the only difference is the pauldrons.
Or don't trust me. Get em side-by-side.
im not looking at the pauldrons
The chestplate is identical , so are the arm guards and shins-down.
im looking at the chestplate and helmet
The chestplate in H2A has pouches, if that's what you mean.
it's also shaped differently
smaller
I don't think so. Might seem that way because the new pauldrons enclose it less.
Also in HW1 the armour's surface was oddly glossy, and in H2A, it's matte.
im looking at the cinematics from HWars atm, the chestplate is a LOT smaller
I mean, at this point we're just "uh-huh"ing and "nuh-uh"ing one another.
But perspective is a b-word.
But if you seriously think so, run it by some other folks.
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sure they have the same overall mesh, but it's a huge styling and size difference
I don't understand how you can look at those two images and say the chestplate is that different.
which comparing it to original halo 2 isnt really a bad thing, since halo 2 was relatively low poly
Relatively low-poly, sure. But still canon.
I'll ask some Halopedia dudes.
About the HW/H2A chest thing. But as far as I can tell, it's just the pauldrons, the coloration, and maybe the Marine underneath. Plus the animation rigging - one is gameplay.
And pauldrons are, as I think we've seen, not really a fixture of the chestplate in UNSC body armour.
we cant really compare it to halo wars gameplay now can we lol
Yeah xD
Well, you kinda can.
You can still make out the shape of their chestplates on the in-game model.
Barely.
if you do a lot of stuff to get that close
even then the model sizes are skewed
certain portions emphasized so you can tell what the unit is
The cutscene Marines in Halo Wars 2 go off H2A, though.
With a bit of extra tight ribbed material over the abdomen.
I'll DM a screenshot.
Anyway, that to me suggests that the chestplate is the same.
Different pauldrons, I can understand. But why have two ever-so-different configurations of chestplate from the exact same era?
Logically, it's gotta be the same.
But I concede, what we gotta record as canon isn't always logical.
yeah, most of the HW2 marines in cutscenes go off of that
not all, but most
viscid sphinx
how much does the average civilian know about the flood and the forerunners
are those even public knowledge at all?
versed helm
Going off Legacy of Onyx, some information seems to have bled out surrounding the Forerunners. Logically, it'd take the form of a very well-supported conspiracy theory in the human population, maybe. Or maybe the UNSC has straight-up confirmed them, in some form or other. An age-old long-dead race. Fermi paradox kinda thinking.
Not sure about The Flood.
carmine sleet
Considering the threat the Flood poses, ONI would likely want to keep any info about it out of the public eye incase an innsurectionist group thinks they can try to use it as a bioweapon
versed helm
That would be an awesome story.
Innies getting their hands on a Forerunner facility. Using their "reclaimer" status to gain access. Ignoring the warnings based on what they've heard through unofficial channels.
Collecting samples, then accidentally starting a huge infection.
quartz willow
@versed helm in the book battleborn it is discussed that the general population knows about forerunners and is even taught about them in school
versed helm
I still need to read that. Yikes.
quartz willow
Welp sorry for telling you about that
versed helm
I don't mind.
Not exactly important spoilers.
Not that I mind having Battleborn spoiled to me either.
If someone spoiled Halo Oblivion, though, I'd kill them.
But I would read that the moment I got my hands on it so 🤷
carmine sleet
I think in the Halo Wars prequel comic, Anders talks about Forerunner structures at a university before ONI take her to join the Spirit of Fire
viscid sphinx
hmm