Well Unity doesn't mutate the things she assimilates
#lore-and-universe
humble yacht
Also if you're a super scientist, you could just woo Unity
she wouldn't assimilate you
gilded mason
That puts Halsey's fears to rest.
versed helm
Hahaha
humble yacht
I'm not sure if Halsey is emotionally capable of wooing anyone
humble yacht
Halsey's idea of a date would probably be inviting you to her lab while she works, and you just sit there
carmine sleet
Halsey crying at her own daughter's death proves otherwise Metal. She does feel emotion
versed helm
I think the only time i saw her somewhag excited was when she met John back in Eranidus
@carmine sleet Did not remember that moment you are right
She still cold as stone tho
gilded mason
She also had a moment when she learned of Captain Keyes' death.
humble yacht
more than 0
gilded mason
Oh you
versed helm
On another topic, is there any where else where Black Team is mentioned aside from that comic where the didact kills them?
What was their purpose?
gilded mason
Bloodlines
versed helm
Why there is no mention of them in any of the games?
gilded mason
Same reason other Spartans weren't until Halo 5.
versed helm
They are irrelevant?
carmine sleet
Not to mention it would be weird if Chief started talking about Black or Grey Team during the events of Halo 2 for example
quartz willow
Grey teams the best spartan team
stoic hamlet
I think you mean Green Team, because it was led by bestboi Kurt
carmine sleet
Honestly, I've gotta agree with Admiral, Grey Team is the best team, with Blue in close second
gaunt karma
Adriana is best
carmine sleet
Agreed, loved how they introduced her in Cole Protocol
gaunt karma
same
carmine sleet
Honestly, I'd love to see them in action outside of the novels one day. Sure we got to see Jai in a terminal but I would love them to be in a game or something animated
gaunt karma
Grey Team in Blur cutscene
carmine sleet
I'd love that
gaunt karma
I like to imagine how CEA would look if it had Blur cutscenes like in H2A
carmine sleet
I'd be blinded by its majesty for sure
Same if they did it for the other games without Blur cutscenes
cerulean sand
that sounds awesome
quartz willow
@stoic hamlet excuse me sir I think you dad johnson
stoic hamlet
.....wut?
versed helm
Who is Adriana?
gilded mason
A member of Gray Team.
quartz willow
Grey Team is only my fav spartan team because of how they were introduced and how they operated behind enemy lines for almost the entire war and then nova bombed an entire planey
gilded mason
and then nova bombed an entire planey
Why would that be a reason you like them?
remote spruce
lol
gaunt karma
why wouldn't that be a reason to like them?
gilded mason
Oh you.
gilded mason
Why do some people like Jerome so much? I never played HW1, was it something there?
gaunt karma
HW2
feral perch
No, the Spartans didn't really have personalities in the first Halo Wars.
gaunt karma
I assume it's the cutscene of him in the Enduring Conviction
feral perch
Halo Wars 2 really allows Jerome's personality to shine through.
And he's gotten even more attention by being made a multiplayer leader.
gilded mason
Halo Wars 2 really allows Jerome's personality to shine through.
Oh. I really didn't see much personality back when I went through it. I guess I missed it.
feral perch
Yeah, Jerome's interactions with Isabel, his dialogue with marines in a few of the levels in-game
and several epic moments
where it seems like out-of-the-books action
gilded mason
I assume it's the cutscene of him in the Enduring Conviction
Funnily, I actualy disliked that scene.
feral perch
Douglas is also really interesting.
I didn't like Alice's voice actress at first, but she's grown on me.
The Phoenix Logs for the Spartans also provide good intel.
I think Jerome and Isabel could be a great replacement for Chief and Cortana.
gilded mason
If John leaves, I'd rather they not stick to a single PC for 'mainline' games.
gaunt karma
what makes you dislike that scene? :o
feral perch
Is it the way the Sentinels react?
gilded mason
what makes you dislike that scene? :o
The constant cuts to black and the way it was directed just felt disorienting. And I imagine without the cuts, it would just look like all of Jerome's enemies were just moving around lethargically for him to easily kill.
gaunt karma
ah, understandable
gilded mason
And on the exterior scenes, Enduring Conviction basically did nothing to actually damage the Spirit
Except for a few banshees.
feral perch
I see. Though, because it was motion capture, and just how fast Spartans are supposed to be able to move, it might not have been feasible to show everything.
Perhaps Atriox wanted to recover the Spirit of Fire.
gilded mason
Eh.
carmine sleet
Atriox had no interest in killing the crew of the SoF, he made that clear multiple times, even giving them multiple offers to leave the Ark and promising he wouldn't send anyone after them
Not that SoF could've left due to it missing a slipspace drive but still
gilded mason
Not that SoF could've left due to it missing a slipspace drive but still
Yeah, I was about to say. That wasn't an option for them.
carmine sleet
Indeed. I do hope we get to see what happens with them after Halo Wars 2 and its DLCs
quartz willow
@carmine sleet from what I know there isn't supposed to be anymore DLC campaigns for HW2 but there might be maps if you read the Phoenix log for fort Jordan than you'll realize the spirit is at a huge disadvantage due to man power
carmine sleet
No, I meant more of them in future media, not as more DLC for the game
quartz willow
Oh well we might still get a story of how the fight goes for the spirit but for rn the only story well is form new maps that give us Phoenix Logs which I always enjoy
versed helm
So while doing the halo lore quizzes in the botlab I came across a quote from Cortana in "two betrayals" on H1
And was reminded that she said something along the lines of her getting knowledge.
I am curious to know if it was this knowledge that brought her back in H5
And ultimately drove her crazy
By the way I don't really pay much attention to the lore outside of the campaigns so bare my ignorance
gilded mason
In a very round-about way, possibly. Gaining all that knowledge from the Installation shortened the time it would take for her to eventually go Rampant.
quartz willow
Yea jts even mentioned a bit in halo first strike and the weakness if humanity story In halo evolutions 2
scarlet pumice
Question, what is a good Halo novel to read? I've already read The Fall of Reach and First Strike, and I don't remember reading The Flood.
quartz willow
@scarlet pumice silent storm or retribution are pretty good
scarlet pumice
I think I've also read Cole Protocol
I may have read more than I remember lol
hmmmmm
may have to look into those
gaunt karma
Cole Protocol features the Spartans in Grey Team
versed helm
Question; not all prometheans are sophisticated AI based on human neural patterns like the knights are.
But, are all prometheans - including crawlers, soldiers, watchers - constituted of repurposed biomass?
A-la, Spartan Davis.
Thematically, that would make more sense for them as an enemy of The Flood, I think.
A method of both denying The Flood biomass and fighting back. Plus, it would make the non-knight promethean forms more interesting and thematically unified with knights than just being Forerunner combat drones.
humble yacht
i dont understand the idea of repurposed biomass
versed helm
You know how at the end of Spartan Assault, Davis' body was being turned into some bit of Forerunner machinery?
humble yacht
no
versed helm
Flesh to metal.
I'm not saying composition is exactly the same process, but I am saying that Forerunner fabrication processes seem to be able to repurpose biological matter into whatever they need.
The Composer also happens to strip all the muscle, flesh and soft matter from whatever it hits.
humble yacht
the Composer digitized everything, with the original intent that lifeforms could be completely reconsituted from virtual forms at a later date
analog cargo
Anyone know if the composer can compose flood forms?
humble yacht
that usage never game to fruition
versed helm
I obviously understand what the composer is.
modest marsh
It wouldn’t be a functional essence
humble yacht
yes, composers could compose flood, but not in a way that could save the individual
versed helm
I'm asking if anything at all makes other promethean forms distinct instead of just being generic forerunner combat drones.
modest marsh
They bleed
humble yacht
It's possible, about as anything else is
Do Watchers summon Crawlers via a portal or make them out of dirt?
modest marsh
I’d think it’s a portal conduit
humble yacht
Halopedia says otherwise
versed helm
There's a clear precedent for Forerunner machinery turning biomass into metal. If you factor in gravitic engineering and hardlight, it's perfectly feasible for a little biomass to go a long way.
modest marsh
What does halopedia postulate
versed helm
In the war against the Flood, it'd actually be a useful tactical tool instead of just. Y'know.
Some slightly smarter robots.
humble yacht
that Watchers make Crawlers from raw material in the ground
modest marsh
analog cargo
If they are summoned from a portal the there needs to be like a storage room just full of crawlers just waiting to be summoned
versed helm
"Although the details surrounding his final moments are unclear, Davis supposedly entered a cave system known as the Cistern, where he was killed. However, a sublimation device present in the caverns absorbed his remains and the final impressions of his personality into a Durance. Through this device, what was left of Davis' consciousness began calling Palmer for help through a powerful signal. Palmer later arrived in the core and deactivated the signal while the Durance housing Davis' impressions was recovered via Pelican.[2][9]"
On Davis, btw.
From HP.
So it was a durance. And his entire body was incorporated into it.
Very telling.
modest marsh
I think this is separate from what happens in composition
modest marsh
When a victim is Composed, their tissue is vaporized leaving behind ash
versed helm
Correction: Ash is left behind while the composer salvages useful molecular material.
modest marsh
How does it salvage it
versed helm
Evidently.
That's a little bit of a dumb question - how does it absorb their "essence?"
modest marsh
Specifically I’m referring to the Ivanov Station incident
versed helm
It's all Forerunner tech. Particle manipulation fields.
modest marsh
The electrical impulses from a human brain is a bit more incorporeal than hydrogen and carbon atoms
Heresay to suggest that they can just vacuum them up from far away
versed helm
Right. More incorporeal than photons?
modest marsh
I was gonna say
The foundational mechanics of composition is neural physics based
Thus incomparable to natural physics
The Forerunners use gravitational fields to extract resources
versed helm
I don't think Prometheans - or more pertinently, Composers - as you guys seem to be accepting them would be a particularly useful weapon against The Flood.
humble yacht
if I had to draw a parallel, it would likely be similar to how bodies get digitized in Tron
versed helm
You also seem to be ignoring the fact that what I am saying literally happened to Davis.
humble yacht
I'm not ignoring it
modest marsh
What happened to Davis wasn’t with a Composer
humble yacht
I just don't see it as turning flesh to metal
versed helm
And why can't composers have that functionality?
They're clearly extreme cutting-edge tech.
humble yacht
They could but that would be essentially a retcon from their established function
modest marsh
It’s not “why not” it can’t, you just haven’t demonstrated that capability
versed helm
It would add to it, with precedent.
humble yacht
Davis is the precedent?
versed helm
Their established function is that they take biological things and turn them into killing machines.
modest marsh
We already have an explanation for that
humble yacht
Davis was just absorbed into a storage unit
versed helm
There's no reason, as it stands, why Forerunner production facilities couldn't just spit out promethean knights that work off complex battle programming.
modest marsh
Billions of preconstructed chassis
versed helm
There's nothing that functionally makes Prometheans unique.
Or distinct from any other Forerunner tech.
humble yacht
yeah, I always assumed essences were put into empty Knight shells
not that the composer made a fresh knight out of every essence
versed helm
Knights are not particularly smart or lethal in combat. They get rinsed on a regular basis by Spartan IVs.
They're just a thematic enemy.
modest marsh
They’re worfy
humble yacht
i mean, elites get rinsed on a regular basis by Spartan IVs too
modest marsh
Elites are just aliens though
humble yacht
but in lore they're supposed to be comparable in strength and smart to boot
versed helm
And if that theme was orientated more around the denial and use of humanity and other potential vectors for The Flood, that theme would grow a lot more powerful and, in-universe, tactically viable.
versed helm
Right. Precedent for additional functionality.
modest marsh
I don’t see how absorbing living tissue is particularly useful
versed helm
It's just efficiency, really.
humble yacht
oh is that the question?
modest marsh
Is that efficient?
modest marsh
There’s an energy expenditure in the recycling process
humble yacht
to get the full benefit, both must be present
versed helm
I'd say so. You're literally converting something the enemy wants directly into something that can harm the enemy.
modest marsh
Just vaporize it
versed helm
With minimal application of resources.
humble yacht
by digitizing the body, you have a more complete virtual entity than if you just copy the mind
soft quail
How did the forerunners "store" other species for preservation when the Halo array was fired?
versed helm
The Ark, doofus xD
modest marsh
Forerunner combat doctrine is literally “burn everything that’s infected”
humble yacht
they stored them on the ark, yes
soft quail
that's why it's called that
FACEPALM
humble yacht
they didn't have whole organisms on the ark like Noah, though
versed helm
And my point, Maggruber, is that the prometheans represent a clear divergence from Forerunner combat doctrine.
It's why they were so radical in the first place.
humble yacht
that's why most of the Ecumene hated them
modest marsh
Where does absorbing organic tissue fit into that
humble yacht
because of how they were made
soft quail
Something about composing other sentient beings violating the mantle?
modest marsh
Prometheans still use antimatter to incinerate flood forms
humble yacht
@modest marsh the original idea behind the composer was to digitize an organism and then remake it's physical body and put it back
versed helm
Because you're zapping a bunch of organics out of existence, and in addition to that, using everything you get from them to create an instant highly-capable fighting force.
humble yacht
by digitizing the physical form, you have a blueprint to remake the physical form biologically
versed helm
Really, I just don't like the idea that soldiers and crawlers have literally nothing to do with knights.
They're just there.
soft quail
Like sentinels?
modest marsh
You haven’t shown the Forerunners having the capability to just move an entire human body from thin air
humble yacht
Soldiers should have been Composed Humans
humble yacht
Halo 4 showed that capability
versed helm
If you're concerned about the limit of the Forerunner's capabilities in this particular respect, I'd say you're just being obtuse.
modest marsh
That’s not what happened though
humble yacht
how do you explain what happened?
soft quail
What was the deal with that weird Halo that only killed elites?
gilded mason
The thing from Shadow of Intent?
humble yacht
so there were leftovers from the process
soft quail
Yes, that they wanted to kill the shipmaster with
humble yacht
so you think the Composer just vaporizes and doesn't digitize, is that what you're saying?
modest marsh
It digitizes someone’s neurology after scanning by unknown means using neural physics technology
Halo can target nervous systems similarly
soft quail
Except the floods nervous systems, for... Some reason
modest marsh
No, the flood’s too
The flood can function without being a complex life form
They’re cellular based
They just need complex neurology to be smart
soft quail
I like to just go with a simpler theory that the Halo Array just fries the Galaxy with a giant gamma Ray burst
soft quail
It takes a lot of the mcguffins out
versed helm
"Resonating neutrinos" isn't exactly a mcguffin.
The rings themselves are mcguffins.
The principles they operate on are technobabble, and it makes no difference on way or the other.
soft quail
Those mcguffins are tangible constructs though, and a highly advanced race could harvest energy from stars to power them
And then you would have enough juice to bug zap the Galaxy
Wonder if the forerunners could have slowed down the flood by redirecting star roads to black holes
Or key them to teleport flood fleets into a sun
Does slipspace prevent ships from physically colliding with things? Some light speed ships would make pretty cheap and devastating battering rams
Why didn't the forerunners hang out on the Ark? They seem to have allowed themselves to be destroyed by the Halo array.
versed helm
They were a little suicidal by the end of the war.
They felt their time was up.
I think you'd probably really like the Forerunner trilogy.
versed helm
It's the clip from Spartan Assault I was talking about, timelinked.
Just shows the flesh-to-metal concept I was discussing.
There was MJOLNIR in the mix too, obviously, but all of Davis was dissolved and I doubt there's squishy blood-bits in that machine.
fair hazel
crawlers, soldiers, are built.
versed helm
Allow me to copy-paste something from my DMs with Maggruber, who I seem to have driven offline ;-;
"As a weapon against the Flood, it'd be undeniably useful - though more useful than the solute, which seems to be able to instantly neutralize the FSC, I don't think so. And obviously because of The Flood's sheer adaptability and the cunning of the Gravemind, no weapon was really enough.
In the Didact's context, however, as a rogue element who's more or less fighting his own war, conceptualizing the composer as a machine that doesn't just do a brain-scan to build a neural net for a specific class of combat construct but takes everything useful from what it hits - including both their mind and everything truly alive within them, their "essence" if you will - and re-purposes them into machines of war with incredible efficiency...
Well, it's a conceptualization the works for me.
And gives all the non-knight promethean forms much needed flavour."
So basically, what I'm trying to say is that it takes everything. The intelligence goes to the knights, the command and coordination elements. But the rest are made out of whatever can be used.
Hence, why everything's seemingly created utilizing as much hardlight and gravitic engineering as possible.
humble yacht
I don't necessarily agree with the latter part
I also felt that the composer craft essences out of everything: mind and body, to create a more complete virtual entity
versed helm
I just truly hate the idea of all the non-knight forms being so... ancillary.
Unrelated.
They might as well be sentinels.
versed helm
Perhaps some principle of neural physics is what dictates what is "useful" for conversion into promethean bodies.
And conversely, what is lethal when targeted by a Halo ring .
Oh, and puh-lease.
My friend, I am a Halopedia editor and an academic as much as I am a lore theorist.
I won't take anything I can't reference to be truly canon.
Hell, I'd hesitate to call this headcanon, even.
"Exciting theoretical possibility" would be my chosen phrase.
Ignore the absurd douchiness of the last few sentences, but accept their meaning xD
fair hazel
they are a type of sentinels..
versed helm
Y'know what I really hate, no offence to your status as a moderator?
When people butt into conversations with clearly lore-proficient people and type simple single-sentence un-referenced answers to complex questions.
It comes off as very disrespectful of others as dedicated Halo lore nerds, if you don't mind me saying.
fair hazel
are you talking about meÉ
versed helm
Yep.
fair hazel
Did you call me not lore proficient????
versed helm
I said you're treating me like I'm not.
"They are a type of sentinels" is un-sourced - never have they ever been classified as a sentinel-type constructs, to my awareness, and if they have been it was not a widely circulated bit of lore.
It's just as much of an interpretation as my theory.
The fact that you acted as if the answer was so utterly simple and obvious in the face of in-depth discussion was, I found, a little grating.
vague scroll
The only official classification for any "Promethean"-type entity is the Soldier to my knowledge, and they're referred to as Armigers.
fair hazel
Armiger
vague scroll
Humanoid support/service robot/drones for verious purposes.
fair hazel
Ok I just read it and forgot the quote
page 91 of halo warfleet
forerunner sentinel used in ground operations
vague scroll
I don't remember Knights being referred to as Armigers.
fair hazel
You were saying?
vague scroll
I'd have to go check again.
versed helm
Does that account for crawlers?
Watchers?
What makes promethean soldiers promethean armigers?
vague scroll
Alright, Knights are armigers too. Just checked.
vague scroll
Armigers are humanoid, walking machine-type Forerunner constructs. That's about as basic a definition I can give you
versed helm
So all prometheans are a type of sentinel.
Good to know.
Begs the question
What is a promethean.
fair hazel
Prometheans were the ancient elite class of the warrior-servants, which the Didact commanded
terse gale
I thought they were old humans
versed helm
Man, that's totally new information to me 🙄
terse gale
You know, cuz of the skull
versed helm
What defines promethean armigers.
vague scroll
And Page 90 of Warfleet refers to Armigers as ground-based sentinels.
versed helm
Are knights the only real promethean armiger?
fair hazel
After his encounter with the gravemind and re-introduction into forerunner society, the didact composed his soldiers, then humans into his promethean knight army
prometheans modern, encompass the control of that group of forerunner forces
versed helm
Right.
vague scroll
so, think of it this way: all walking Sentinels are Armigers, sentinels that fly are sentinels
fair hazel
The didact designed
vague scroll
They were used by Promethean forces
fair hazel
and were incoprorated into his army
versed helm
And why did he design them the way he did?
fair hazel
the didact is the promethean leader
vague scroll
Nah, it doesn't specifically have anything to do with the didact himself.
versed helm
Why did he not use more efficient combat designs?
Like regular sentinels, with better armaments?
fair hazel
he found them efficient
vague scroll
The faction's use of these constructs are what makes them associated to the Prometheans
versed helm
And my idea is that he found them efficient because they're designed to be constructed from repurposed biomass.
fair hazel
also, this was after his influence by the gravemind
versed helm
Hence, why they're so heavily constructed of grav-engineered elements and hard light.
modest marsh
Watchers are far more equipped for direct combat than a standard Aggressor Sentinel
remote spruce
I swear Watchers charge up boltshots
fair hazel
crawlers are fast to make, mass, and good for their operations and can be equipped with different weaponry
they can
modest marsh
Crawlers can use Binary Rifles
vague scroll
I mean, you could make that argument, but to make it clear to Grim, you have to explain the difference between non-Promethean armigers and Promethean armigers
vague scroll
You are right that being associated with the Didact does make them Prometheans technically though
I would be careful with the phrasing of "designed"
modest marsh
We haven’t seen a humanoid construct designed not for combat
versed helm
Instead of just using efficient models of pre-existing armiger that were probably used for a long time in the war against The Flood.
vague scroll
we aren't really sure if they're totally new constructs, the one featured in Renegades in itself has a pretty similar look to Promethean soldiers
versed helm
What makes promethean armigers prometheans and not armigers. My theory answers that question.
vague scroll
By association with the Promethean Warrior caste, its really that simple Grim
Promethean in the Halo franchise is a catch-all term for referring to the forces of the Didact, now Created
versed helm
Still begs the question, though.
Why soldiers and crawlers? Why are they the particular armiger forms deployed alongside knights?
Knights are no super soldiers. They're hardly potent enough on their own to justify the composition process.
They are aggressive, not smart.
vague scroll
The gameplay doesn't do the Knights justice Grim
versed helm
Frequently do they get rinsed by Spartan IVs firing conventional ballistic ammunition. Lore-wise.
vague scroll
its been stated before that the depiction in Halo 4, particularly Spartan Ops, is not realistic to their true nature
versed helm
I'd say their depiction in Halo 5 is even worse.
vague scroll
Commander Palmer would not be able to headshot them like they're nothing
Halo 5 did have that Avengers-like cold open, I think a lot of people are in agreement the Spartans are a little too impressive there
remote spruce
Being able to kill knights with one bullet as soon as they spawn is somehow one of the greatest halo gameplay ideas.
versed helm
Let me come at it another way.
One of the big things that the composer does is deny The Flood biomass, right?
It eats up all the useful matter and leaves ash and skeletons.
vague scroll
I can think of ways to explain away the Promethean behaviors in Halo 4 cutscenes but it would be more headcanon than anything else though I think it would be a pretty good explanation if anyone wants to hear it.
modest marsh
It doesn’t help that Master Chief singlehandedly fought presumably dozens of them at once on Mantle’s Approach using mainly a battle rifle in addition to crawlers and watchers
versed helm
I think a very compelling and so far canonically viable unifying theme for all promethean constructs is that they are designed to utilize that useful matter in their construction, a-la the fate of Davis.
I'm not saying it's a dead-cert.
But I'll admit I did have some level of misunderstanding regarding ericky's sentinel comment.
So sorry xD
vague scroll
you also don't own the Warfleet book or have it in your current proximity so its understandable that you couldn't verify the source either
fair hazel
John had access to forerunner weaponry in that scenario. Also the promethean's weakness is a strength when combatting the flood
It offers less threat should they fall to the flood
versed helm
So does that strength come from their raw combat capabilities? Or that they represent a denial and unusable-rendering of biomass?
That's not even in my theory, btw.
fair hazel
I'm talking about in general, knights, watchers, crawlers
modest marsh
Having access to it doesn’t mean he canonically used it
fair hazel
and they do take multiple shots
versed helm
Even if my theory's wrong, composition doesn't leave anything for The Flood.
modest marsh
We see him holding a battle rifle
vague scroll
you know what would be an interesting twist on Prometheans? Maybe, like how plasma weapons are good against shields compared to kinetic weapons, kinetic weapons are favored over plasma against Prometheans...
versed helm
And I assume in a strategic sense that's a big draw.
remote spruce
Master Chief used a knife obviously
versed helm
Hello
modest marsh
I mean probably
fair hazel
Battle rifle while having access to other things, helps with the ammo.
Spartan Knives are good
modest marsh
Why use the battle rifle when there’s light rifles everywhere
fair hazel
Likely did
vague scroll
@modest marsh what is and isn't hard canon has always been a slippery slope so you got to interpret the best you can
strong sage
Anyone knows what kind of Mike Mike rounds the pilum used since it pedia says it uses 57x137mm? And is that considered really strong?
vague scroll
Halo 5 cutscenes mess up a few things here and there that you kind of just have to overlook
versed helm
26th century explosive compounds.
strong sage
Sorry about that i don’t really know much about gun rounds tbh
versed helm
The weapon seems to be designed with infantry-killing in mind, though.
vague scroll
for example, how Linda's sniper rifle fires full auto sometimes
versed helm
Knights an elites, wasn't it?
strong sage
All i know the bigger rounds the better ;-;
vague scroll
or that Fred's DMR is always missing a flash hider
modest marsh
UNSC explosives are arbitrarily strong
vague scroll
or that Locke's DMR never has a scope
versed helm
Arbitrarily strong generally means hella strong, canonically speaking.
Which is the way I like it 😛
vague scroll
@strong sage well first explanation is that the M57 Pilum fires rockets, not bullets (rounds).
modest marsh
My favorite part of halo 5 is when master Chief yells focus fire when there’s two dozen Wardens in front of them and they start firing randomly
vague scroll
the measurements of "57x137 mm" are the dimensions of the missile
remote spruce
Chief was tired after having to actually focus fire during the 3 Warden fight.
modest marsh
The pilum’s rockets are relatively undersized for the sake of portability
vague scroll
@strong sage so the M57 would fire a 57mm type rocket
fair hazel
Pilum might be less powerful than SPNKR but it still does its job
versed helm
The M57 is an awesome weapon design.
modest marsh
Having a portable equivalent is useful
versed helm
I really want to see it again.
vague scroll
for comparison the round for the MA5 is a 7.62x51mm I think, I can't remember specifically, but its a 7.62mm round.
modest marsh
51
vague scroll
thank you Magg
strong sage
Ooooooo if it uses 57mm but how do they compete against armor targets?
fair hazel
Much more portable
vague scroll
that's not measurable @strong sage
since its a game and the concept of real life weapon physics would first require us to know what the weapon payload is
versed helm
My assumption is that SPNKRs are more powerful in canon.
strong sage
Is it possible that pilum are versatile and can use different or larger kind of rockets?
versed helm
But M57's get the job done.
strong sage
Ahhhhh that is true
vague scroll
@strong sage no clue but likely
versed helm
A SPNKR is basically a double-barrelled AT4 linked to a guidance suite.
strong sage
Thanks fam for explanations much clearer now ^~^
vague scroll
like I said, there's neither enough lore or realistic understanding of weapons in Halo to answer your particular questions
at least in a realistic or lore sense
versed helm
Wonder if you could manually trigger a SPNKR tube.
Without the handle.
That'd be cool.
vague scroll
just think "M57 Pilum = big boom" and "M41 SPNKR = BIGGER BOOM"
versed helm
Kinda Saving Private Ryan mortar-round grenade vibes.
fair hazel
cant seem to find an image on halopedia of the Pilum reload
strong sage
Noted on that haha 👍
modest marsh
It’s much more manageable
vague scroll
Probably something to ask CIA, last time I checked with him, they still got a lot of unsorted images
modest marsh
The spnkr reload involves throwing away most of the weapon’s volume.
strong sage
But eh wait unsc still use Spnker right?
strong sage
Or they completely replaced it with pilum
fair hazel
Anyways, see the part sticking out?
vague scroll
@fair hazel I know as a general rule, I'm not supposed to ping you, just for clarity, maybe check the image categories
modest marsh
They coexist
modest marsh
Pilum and SPNKr serve different purposes
fair hazel
You basically take the ammo box and stick it in
modest marsh
Like BR vs DMR
fair hazel
makes it a much more manageable reload
vague scroll
alrighty, just want to be clear, as a regular user I know a fair few users are afraid to ping mods for fear of being banned
versed helm
Makes ammunition carriage more viable too.
UNSC troops would have a hard time hauling SPNKR tubes.
strong sage
Oooooo that is very true 👍
modest marsh
And yeah a given UNSC soldier could reliably hold several pilum rockets to maintain a constant stream of fire
Can’t say that about the spnkr
versed helm
Like I said, though, SPNKRs are more similar in nature to an AT4 or a LAW than a true rocket launcher like a bazooka.
strong sage
And if those babes doesn’t work they bring in the big bear grizzly 😂👍
vague scroll
the M51 Pilum's rounds are also fairly compact, comparable to the size of a 40mm grenade
fair hazel
57
vague scroll
maybe a bit longer and larger
fair hazel
50mm
versed helm
I don't think they're a flawed design. The SPNKR is just a logical advancement of modern philosophies for infantry-carried anti-tank weapons.
modest marsh
It’s like the size of a pressure hose nozzle
fair hazel
there was definitely a cool factor
vague scroll
probably 3 40 mike mikes stacked on top of each other would give you a close dimension to the M57's rounds
fair hazel
for the weapons
although 343i i feel tends to try and mix in some of the cool factor, with practicality, visual necessities and gameplay balancing
versed helm
A huge disposable rocket tube that can destroy any target, with the added capability of a robust and reliable tracking system.
The expensive bit you keep
The explodey bit you drop
Disassembled, you couldn't carry much of it, but I doubt it'd get in the way too hard.
vague scroll
I still feel that the Halo weapons are a bit overdesigned, from a practicality standpoint
versed helm
You could engineer a crafty satchel for 3 or 4 tubes.
vague scroll
even under Bungie they were overdesigned too
versed helm
Big squaddie could lug it.
vague scroll
advancements would likely lead to less blocky weapons
there's a reason why people prefer the AR-15 in real life, with its infinitely customizable design
simple but very well engineered
fair hazel
I like the MA5D for the modularity
versed helm
I assume the 102mm rocket - which is why it's so big - is a necessity for defeating titanium-ceramic based armour.
It would not surprise me if the pilum was not as capable against heavy armour.
it's a shielded-infantry killer.
vague scroll
it could use a bit more tbh, seeing the MA5 be able to remove its ammunition readout shroud, being able to take off something like the flashlight grip, get rid of some of the blockier parts of the weapon
it would make for a decent cut-down rifle
versed helm
I don't buy that the MA5D is more modular than any other MA5.
gaunt karma
speaking of the Pilum
versed helm
We just haven't seen other MA5's used in a modular way.
gaunt karma
when was that made?
versed helm
Postwar.
gaunt karma
darn
gaunt karma
also, does Ivanoff Station use antigrav loading mechanisms?
vague scroll
yeah
fair hazel
anti-grav loading mechanism?
vague scroll
either that or magnetic but there's not much of a difference
in Halo 4 if you remember, the HAVOK floats up onto the bottom of Chief's Broadsword
gaunt karma
when Chief gets into the broadsword, the nuke is gently floated up in a blue stream similar to a Covenant gravity lift
modest marsh
MA5B and MA5C both support underbarrel weapon systems
vague scroll
in description but not depiction
fair hazel
ah
versed helm
MA5B and MA5C can mount optics in the same way the MA5D can
fair hazel
for the broadsword
modest marsh
We see it in Last Light and Silent Storm
versed helm
And the D is a step backwards
vague scroll
again, I believe Michelle's point was that you never actually see modularity with the early variants of the MA5 until Halo: Online and Halo 5
versed helm
Saw what again @modest marsh - MA5B and C modularity or the loading system?
fair hazel
HUD systems standard on marines
versed helm
Not as much as they should be.
fair hazel
and other UNSC forces
modest marsh
40mm GLs
versed helm
They can be used, but they are no always.
Suggesting alternate optics are still very much a thing.
I once thought that NIs might somehow project a reticle.
A lot of in-depth lore gandering later and some help from Halopedia frands
modest marsh
Funny you mention that
versed helm
I decided that it's not a thing.
In The Flood's definitive edition, Keyes doesn't even get ship info like that
modest marsh
Mortal Dictata specifically says it’s the armor that does it
gaunt karma
my point?
gaunt karma
did you accidentally put Michelle or something? :p
versed helm
In reference to the pistol, actually
Which means a smart-linked camera feed
There's leighway
Trust me, I went through every source
vague scroll
@gaunt karma yeah, I did mean you when referencing the previous guns not looking modular in the games
modest marsh
Mal says that the KFA scope is useless without armor
versed helm
The big killer was The Flood and the transponder stuff.
Right. KFA scope.
The smart-linked camera scope.
Not necessarily a projection sight.
gaunt karma
when did I say anything about that? :o
versed helm
I'm justifying my logic at the time
Rn I'm on the same page as you Mag.
Likely it's all one integrated system - The Spartan Field Guide basically says as much.
Smart-linked optics can assist with reticles.
They all share data.
Projection sights and the Field Manual's "predicted weapon impact points" are totally the same thing tho
Projecting sight zooming in Halo 5 is just a VISR thing
vague scroll
@gaunt karma oh, maybe it was Magg, your names look similar when its just a wall of text on my screen, sorry
vague scroll
np np
fair hazel
um
Not sure if I misunderstood but
projection sight stuff is holographic
mixed in with HUD
vague scroll
you're right, but those projection sights are projected onto the HUD layer of the helmet visor
no one would be able to see them without some kind of augmented reality equipment
fair hazel
Holographic..
vague scroll
holographic sights in real life still require a lens to bounce an image off of
they can't just loosely float in the air like that
vague scroll
it would be possible if it is a hologram emitter
versed helm
They are not holograms.
This is very obvious, even just from looking at Spartans in-game.
Plus, if you actually pay attention to your HUD, your reticle never changes. You simply zoom in and an aiming overlay with "VISR" tags gets projected all over it.
Note that it is not a "holographic sight". It is a "projection sight".
Of course, if you can find me a reference that directly contradicts both in-game observation and the lore regarding predicted weapon impact points found in the Spartan Field Manual, I'd be happy to believe your assertion, @fair hazel
Projection sights are reticles. Zooming with them is a VISR zoom.
fair hazel
There is already something called holographic sights... and they're not holograms.. You can see the projection lines for the hologram. If it looks like a hologram and acts like a hologram. In game observation states they are hologram. Lore doesn't state they are not holograms.
versed helm
Obviously I am aware of that.
fair hazel
Field manual talks about how weapons interact with user
versed helm
But "lore doesn't state that they're not" is simply not good enough.
There is nothing to indicate that they are holograms.
fair hazel
if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck
versed helm
Why do the holographic elements have little text that reads "VISR" on them.
Why does the reticle literally not visually change from its un-zoomed form.
Why would it need to be a holographic projection when everything it does can be achieved from your HUD without violated camo and concealment.
Where is the projector. Human holograms do not appear with projectors.
Why are they not seen on the 3rd person model?
@fair hazel
spring fulcrum
What’s the topic y’all?
versed helm
I'm humbly requesting that you do not pass off headcanon as lore.
A theory is a theory - but you're a mod.
fair hazel
They are seen in third person... It links with the VISR. Why have scopes on weapons at all? It would also be useful when unlinked from a visor source
Even halopedians are in agreement
versed helm
Why does the hologram not appear on the 3rd person model.
fair hazel
it does
versed helm
When a Spartan zooms, the sight does not appear in front of him.
Lol, show me.
Go on.
I've been playing a lot of Halo 5 recently.
versed helm
I'm terribly sorry about all this
I've had a lot of conversations regarding this exact topic and not once has anybody ever brought this up.
spring fulcrum
Hologram means the sight actually appears in front of the helmet and gun like that. The sight on the SMG, for all I know, links to your HUD as some sort of Augmented Reality set-up
versed helm
I mean S-D379
We're literally looking at holographic projections that I
For some reason
Have never once seen in-game
spring fulcrum
Woah
versed helm
And I don't understand it
fair hazel
I notice them
spring fulcrum
Lore-wise I know I’m right.
versed helm
I mean obviously you're right ericky
But this is so unexpected
And random
It's never even been added to Halopedia
vague scroll
I've seen the human ones, the Needler one is new to me
spring fulcrum
Gameplay wise idk. I play H5 like once in a blue moon.
fair hazel
I play it everyday
vague scroll
@versed helm surprised you never seen the indicator in Halo 5
I also sent you the concept art for those the other day on halopedia
spring fulcrum
Don’t have a Xbox One, so I play whenever I go to my cousin’s.
versed helm
@vague scroll But they weren't literally outside the Spartan's visor
fair hazel
I know my lore.
spring fulcrum
That being said, it’s kinda funny how the sight appears like that
versed helm
Yeah, you just don't reference it quickly enough to prevent hot-heads like me jumping down your throat xD
Sorry, by the way.
vague scroll
the soft glow off the projection sights I've seen plenty of times in Halo 5 when I played it a while back
fair hazel
The info floats in my head
vague scroll
its been a year since I've played Halo admittingly, become to involved in my Halo Fanon moderating and college
fair hazel
oh my
vague scroll
all the time I got now for is books
fair hazel
Im the type of person who
new book or comic releases, wait until it comes out, buy it, read it, finish it, talk about it, then sleep
spring fulcrum
spring fulcrum
No wait so it appears I was confusing the two terms
@fair hazel How do you get the time lol
fair hazel
i sleep less on those days
spring fulcrum
Fair.
I just have a lot of things I pay attention to that sometimes I miss stuff.
vague scroll
I crushed through Halo: battleborn in 5 hours @spring fulcrum Halo material isn't that hard to read
spring fulcrum
Various franchises, and there’s also Fanon
spring fulcrum
@vague scroll Not saying it takes time, but that I don’t get the time/patience nowadays so sit through those five hours
versed helm
What the hell even are they
fair hazel
holograms
fair hazel
holographic projector
spring fulcrum
HPedia says they Project a hologram in front of the gun
vague scroll
@spring fulcrum I just read while I was on the treadmill at the gym, walking gets boring so I have the free time to do that there
spring fulcrum
That’s a good use of it
vague scroll
walk four miles, complete half the book, my body and mind are at ease 😛
spring fulcrum
That being said, don’t really think the hologram emitter is an efficient enough use of it when you can instead link it to your HUD
versed helm
Like, as a concept, it's really silly.
spring fulcrum
It’s all basically the in-lore explanation for H5’ newer SmartScope system
versed helm
For a lot of reasons.
vague scroll
you do what you can with what you got, interpret however you like CB when you do your writing
versed helm
Which is why I was so resistant to considering it
spring fulcrum
@fair hazel Yep, I get it.
fair hazel
halo 5 has all types of scoping
versed helm
What I'm trying to do is rationalize it.
So it's a postwar thing.
Probably not around on wartime MA5s.
Which just use good-ol HUD-projected reticles.
spring fulcrum
That’s what I meant
remote spruce
"ah shoot this Guardian fried my smart scope"
fair hazel
guardians don't EMP
similar results but
not the same, and some differences
i do think it's cool too
imagine something like that in real life
fair hazel
when the SMG was good sometimes I'd use the projection scope
versed helm
In game it just kinda zooms
versed helm
Like, so when a Spartan's using an MA5, they'll always have their predicted weapon impact points.
The in-game targeting reticle.
When in-game you zoom in, the reticle does not change.
A bunch of additional lines surround it and your vision moves forward, but the reticle stays the same.
I'm wondering if it's a seamless transition, projection sights just project additional steadying shapes, or projection sights actually don't utilize the pre-existing reticle and work differently to how they do in-game.
I'm guessing the tech is derived from Covenant stuff, since all of their weapons seem to have it.
Everything that it actually projects very much seems to be something VISR could do.
It all even has text saying "VISR" on it.
remote spruce
I wonder if it's also derived from Forerunner weapons. I'm certain Knights use some kind of smart link-like thing.
versed helm
It's so obvious I didn't even notice the whole hologram thing.
simple locust
@versed helm Oh hey I sent you another private message.
versed helm
Actually y'know what
This might actually be a darn good bit of lore
What if H2A Marines use HUDs that utilize the same tech.
fair hazel
ther are those cases where there is no HUD, but again it can be redundancy systems, and the scope specifics allows communication between systems to be made easier and provide more data.
versed helm
A sort of mono-directional holographic field.
I just really wish 343 could clarify this stuff.
simple locust
How long have HUDs existed?
versed helm
Aaaaages, judging by Contact Harvest.
vague scroll
It's a technology we have today in real life.
versed helm
At least as long as the MA5 has been around, in a functional military sense.
fair hazel
im in forge zooming in and a lot of the stuff is pretty cool
simple locust
Why are they the same for both the Arbiter and Master Chief in Halo 2?
versed helm
Gameplay doesn't always reflect canon, technically speaking.
It rarely does.
Covenant HUDs would work differently, but it'd be strange to go from a UNSC one - which doesn't work exactly like they do in-game anyway - to a bizarre Covenant one.
People would probably complain.
versed helm
It's a military, exploratory and scientific organization created to protect Earth and her colonies.
The UEG is a representative democracy.
Evidently, with colonialist tendencies. Albeit, colonization of places without pre-existing society.
gaunt karma
is there a lore reason for armour abilities?
versed helm
One could argue that the UNSC puppets the UEG, with HIGHCOM acting a kind of military junta.
And during the HCW, that was explicitly the case.
fair hazel
armour abilities? yes, modules
gaunt karma
the ones in Reach, ye
fair hazel
modules
simple locust
Are all of the UNSC planets represented as a representative democracy such as just the House or a full republic?
gaunt karma
did both sides have them?
fair hazel
yep
gaunt karma
curious about how they had the same technology, referring specifically to armour lock
simple locust
Also how much of Africa was destroyed in Halo 3? What countries were left closest to it?
versed helm
@simple locust UEG colonies have elected governing officials who hold some degree of un-defined sway with the UEG back on Earth.
vague scroll
@simple locust The actual glassed portion of Africa has no established data point
Lord Hood did shout at Rtas that he glassed "half a continent" but this cannot be taken as literal
fair hazel
he was exagerating
vague scroll
given we do not have any corroborating facts to show for it, exactly as erickyboo eloquently put it
heady estuary
Africa was glassed? Dang I need to replay the halos, all of them. Well because I haven't played them yet
vague scroll
It's just a single cut scene from Halo 3
terse gale
Not all of Africa, lol
vague scroll
part of Africa, could be as small as part of Kenya to everything from South Africa up to the Sahara or more so
we don't know the extent of the glassing
heady estuary
Oh ok
vague scroll
we do know that the city of New Mombasa is at least still around in some form though
heady estuary
Why I'm here is to read about lore and learn more lore
vague scroll
part of Project: REBIRTH
the major of New Mombasa presented a statue of the Master Chief constructed in gold at some meeting
in 2553, so its possible that New Mombasa is still around in some form, maybe its a tent city now dealing with constant glass storms
it could be anything
heady estuary
interesting
heady estuary
cool! Thanks.
vague scroll
np, as I imagine it, the future of New Mombasa will no longer be defined by seasonal sandstorms/duststorms but rather glassstorms, because the area it was near, Voi, was most definitely glassed
and that stuff doesn't go away easily
remote spruce
What I'm confused on is why Army Trooper/random colonists would be carrying armor abilities.
Obviously gameplay reasons, but still
gaunt karma
random autosentries on Ivanoff Station even though you found them on Requiem
fair hazel
it makes sense that autosentries could be found at an installation studying forerunner artifacts
vague scroll
I think the strangeness they're referring to is that no one encountered Promethean forces until Requiem so seeing Autosentries on Ivanhoff Station is weird with the assumption that the autosentries are specifically a Promethean thing
It is weird that they'd just randomly appear all over Ivanhoff because Gamma Halo and Ivanhoff did not originally have any Promethean presence, however, its possible these sentries were not of Promethean origin and could have been prominent with regular Forerunner security forces
and were eventually recovered as ordinance of some kind
still, its a little strange
strong sage
Following by lore how good and strong are Forerunner knights?
versed helm
Metal Gear Sahelanthropus vs a small Covenant strike force
cerulean sand
how small we talking?
tribal pivot
is halo the best game in the world
humble yacht
Considering that big boss beat Sehalanthropus on his own, I bet a single Elite could do it, with the right weapons
cerulean sand
yea but i want to know the logistics of the covenant that will be fighting Sahelanthropus
modest marsh
I think that’s a tad disingenuous
The mechanics of metal gear fights are weird in that it’s rare for small arms to not be relevant on some level, even with vehicles at play
Grenades can be used to reliably destroy armored APCs for example
Snake had several tanks and missile trucks at his disposal to fight Sahelanthropus, and with a more generous interpretation, I doubt a single elite with even a fuel rod gun could do much
humble yacht
Not every person who played that fight used vehicles
It’s possible to beat the Metal Gear with only rockets
And ammo resupplies from the heli
twilit mulch
I shot at it until it died.
cerulean sand
I feel like a platoon of hunters could take it down
cerulean sand
but what would the lekgolo do outside the armour? what if they seeped into Sahelanthropus
humble yacht
How would you get bare worms on it safely?
cerulean sand
doesn't have to be safely, lets say a missile hit and a small amount of lekgolo survived and got on it's Armour, and not to forget nightfall how the lekgolo act as a group
humble yacht
I feel like Sahelanthropus' metal archea would disable any incoming missles
If a thanolekgolo swarm attacked it, trying to board it from the ground, it would use it's groin-mounted flamethrower to keep them at bay
or jump away
cerulean sand
true, true
dang, in depth this is a complicated battle if we're using a small scale Covenent attack
humble yacht
even if they did board it, I wonder how effective they'd be at penetrating it's armor. In Nightfall they were attracted to electrical signals but only harmed the actual people
I feel like a small team of a few Elites with heavy weapons could take it down pretty easily
modest marsh
It’s possible to beat the Metal Gear with only rockets
It’s possible to beat Sahelanthropus using only machine gun fire, I don’t think that’s valid
humble yacht
they could dodge its attacks and just keep whittling it down
modest marsh
Wraiths in halo can be destroyed using just 2 or 3 plasma pistols
humble yacht
Wraiths would be immediately disabled due to archea grenades
modest marsh
I’m saying your example of rockets being effective against the MG isn’t particularly valid
modest marsh
Vehicles?
humble yacht
you can start the fight using vehicles but eventually it disables them all, forcing you to be on foot
even D Walker becomes useless
cerulean sand
but banshees would give a good distance
humble yacht
banshees would have to flee the archea clouds and wait until they dispersed
modest marsh
From that we can infer a tank’s 120mm or a missile truck did the bulk of the damage
Because frankly
humble yacht
I would say that just decreased the time of the battle
modest marsh
An RPG is so far under either, the impact it would have comparatively is negligible
humble yacht
well all we have to go in is what's effective in the games
we can't really apply real-world physics to a metal gear fight
modest marsh
We can make educated guesses based on the context
vague scroll
or it could just fire a nuke at you and you're screwed anyway
humble yacht
because then the fight wouldn't have been won
Sahelanthropus doesn't have nukes
it can turn itself into a nuke as a last resort
it's got a rail gun on its back instead of a nuke launcher
vague scroll
oh right, Skull Face wasn't into that
modest marsh
If Sahelanthropus was vulnerable to RPGs, surely a helicopter’s missile pods and mini guns would tear it to shreds
autumn urchin
why cant i use the ar flaslight when playing halo reach
cerulean sand
okay, there wasn't a rule on vehicles, i say we get an elite to pilot a battle cruiser
vague scroll
because its not a game mechanic in Reach
modest marsh
Lol
vague scroll
@autumn urchin
cerulean sand
and glass the metal thing
vague scroll
you have night vision
modest marsh
You could probably defeat Sahelanthropus with a few vehicles
vague scroll
doesn't matter if you don't buy it, not in the game
remote spruce
I mean mods in the future....
vague scroll
you want it in Reach, go mod it in
we don't know what kind of mod support Reach will even have
humble yacht
A cruiser would end the fight instantly because it's out of range of the metallic archeae
cerulean sand
exactly
fair hazel
Hey tasteless burrito. You need to change your name to something that starts with alphanumeric characters
vague scroll
obviously Sahlenthropus would beat a Covenant cruiser getting ready to fire because Six managed to do it with his mass driver 😛
fair hazel
And lekgolo and thanolekgolo have differences.
humble yacht
well yeah
thanolekgolo were a botched attempt at an anti-Flood weapon
so they're effective against fleshy things but we don't know about machines
humble yacht
I don't think they could eat Sahelanthropus' depleted uranium armor. That stuff's super dense
vague scroll
I would imagine they can slip through the cracks
no matter how well any machine is engineered, it still needs point of exhaust and distribution of heat among other things, vents and sealants will still present open gaps in the armor in places
or even the gears could be targeted since the Sahelanthropus like other Metal Gears have a lot of moving parts.
humble yacht
it's possible, sure
vague scroll
would it be difficulty, definitely.
It's unknown if Thanolekgolo would be coordinated enough to figure that out admittingly.
humble yacht
but if we're considering all aspects then we have to consider that Sahelanthropus is controlled by a psychic boy with a gas mask, and doesn't only move based on mechanical parts
so even if the worms got in, we don't know how effective they'd be at shutting it down
also
it could just blow itself up, then there'd be no winners
humble yacht
He'd probably be disappointed
vague scroll
I'd imagine so.
humble yacht
I think fuel rod cannons would be minorly effective against it though, so a few Sangheili with unlimited fuel rods could probably take it down, just like Snake did
just dodge roll and shoot for like 30 min
Hell, maybe small arms plasma fire would eventually melt through the armor and damage it to the point of neutralization
vague scroll
Covenant plasma can't cut titanium-A alloy beams
The Covenant War was a Onskiee lie
humble yacht
let's not
vague scroll
yeah, I'll stop at that
still, I would imagine that the continuous plasma fire would eventually melt through Sahelanthropus
last anchor
MGSV vs. Halo?
vapid linden
SW vs. Halo
versed helm
are the precursor completely wiped out?
last anchor
Yeah, they're gone as far was e can tell
versed helm
aren’t they technically the flood?
humble yacht
more like, the Flood is technically Precursor
last anchor
Basically ye
carmine frost
I just read Battle Born, and the Spartan III bothered me. He shouldn't be alive, Beta Company has two survivors, and Owen-B096 is not one of them
vivid dust
Are you bothered by Kat and Noble Six as well?
carmine frost
I just remembered them
vivid dust
It's an easy explanation to me
Owen, like Kat and Six, was pulled from Beta to do some secret Spartan stuff
the end
vague scroll
There are a lot of loop holes that narratively could be created to allow more Betas to survive
humble yacht
Fiction is malleable.
vague scroll
the advantage of storytelling
shrewd trout
Reality can be whatever I want
vague scroll
"The difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
versed helm
is Halopedia reliable?
gilded mason
Usually.
vague scroll
It's the best place for lore tracking, CIA931, a mod here is the site administrator over there and is often cited by Halo lore Youtubers when it comes to assistance with lore topics. Halopedia is a great resource.
tardy sage
I once hit a juul
quartz willow
The arbiter smokes
simple locust
Is Halo CEA the canon art style for Halo CE?
obsidian thistle
Yes unless otherwise stated.
gilded mason
Alas.
simple locust
So is the Halo 2A art style canon or is something like the Halo CEA art style canon for it while the in-game models were just changed for gameplay?
obsidian thistle
A tldr is the "Anniversary" editions are now the canon versions unless otherwise stated by 343i.
Note however, equipment are in that grey area.
simple locust
So why do different groups of elites wear specialized armor like on Reach and Halo CEA and some don't like Halo 2A?
obsidian thistle
Fleets and so on.
gaunt karma
the Covenant ranking structure isn't a thing we're 100% clear on, I think
simple locust
So did the Arbiter's fleet on Reach not have those specific armors?
humble yacht
afaik Thel's fleet never goes to Reach's surface
obsidian thistle
Hard to say. However, do note Gameplay doesnt equal canon so in-universe stuff was likely more varied.
gaunt karma
what CIA said
remote spruce
But different colored Storm armor is canon
simple locust
Also with the Halo 4 style armor was it used throughout the war or did it stop for a time?
gaunt karma
Halo 4 is post-war
obsidian thistle
What armor?
gaunt karma
isn't it?
obsidian thistle
Sangheili armor is a mixed answer.
simple locust
Elite armor.
humble yacht
Cortana said Jul's Covenant was not outfitted like standard Covenant
so it seemed to be separate armor
gaunt karma
Jul's Covenant had different Sangheili armor to Prophet's Covenant Sangheili armor
obsidian thistle
Oh Storm armor was used during the Human-covie war.
remote spruce
Delet this
gaunt karma
where was it used in HCW?
remote spruce
Shocktrooper armor
gilded mason
Oh Storm armor was used during the Human-covie war.
Makes Cortana's comment seem a bit odd.
simple locust
I was referring to the armor worn by the elite on Forward Unto Dawn. Was it used throughout the war by a certain fleet?
gaunt karma
the elite on FuD was from Jul, wasn't it?
remote spruce
I don't get it though, what makes the armor fit for shocktroopers?
gilded mason
"Because"
obsidian thistle
Oh the Halo 4 Zealot armor was a Hesduros-inspired design. So it has reason to exist during the covie war.
gaunt karma
Hesduros?
obsidian thistle
Armor made or inspired by stuff/armor from that planet
quartz willow
The storm armor was a armor may elites did not like because of the vulnerability of its arms thus it was not used very often during the human covenant war
remote spruce
Would've preferred the explanation for storm armor to be "Hesduros training armor"
obsidian thistle
Note undersuits can be used with the Storm harness.
The Swords of Sangheilios use em.
quartz willow
Yes but most did not like it because of the lack of armor on the forearm area