I know mate
#lore-and-universe
modest marsh
The way I see it, of all the species that the Covenant incorporates, I would assume they only use the strongest in the galaxy as part of their military
By the Elites’ viewpoint, humans are incredibly weak
lilac palm
I would definitely see the Sanghelili being the center, or the Jiralhanae
modest marsh
Which tbf we are weaker than most apex predators
lilac palm
an Elite is very strong
Forge pinned him down because he has balls of steel
and was made a ragdoll by Ripa Moramee afterwards
limpid meadow
Forge didn't even really pin Ripa. Forge tackled him, using momentum and an elevated platform to his advantage. It took two hands just to hold down Ripa's arm.
stoic hamlet
beat who?
versed helm
The covenant
gilded mason
The thing is that we beat all of them
What do ya mean?
versed helm
I mean, if you consider Chief's actions to be the trigger for the Great Schism, then I guess.
Victory through unintended consequence.
Humanity certainly beat the Didact, so we've got that under our belt.
But nobody's really beaten The Flood, yet.
humble yacht
I'm sure Truth would have found some reason to justify killing the Elites even if Chief hadn't killed Regret
gilded mason
Yeah. Truth has been planning this for a long while. Also, he actually started off the whole thingbefore Regret even died, according to ODST.
limpid meadow
Yep yep
If I recall correctly, there's lore about Truth secretly manufacturing the Brute Plasma Rifle and distributing ahead of Halo 2.
gilded mason
Yup. Apparently this tidbit is from the Halo Essential Visual Guide:
Unlike the original, which is manufactured by the Iruiru Armory, the Brutes' variant was designed and produced in secret by High Charity's Sacred Promissory.
last anchor
I was just re-reading Fractures as well. Shadow of Intent mentions that the Prelates were prepping the Brutes for this for months, if not YEARS.
And since the guy who Half-Jaw fights against was one of Sacred Promissorys commanders...
limpid meadow
I gotta make a vid on this some day.
gilded mason
Top Ten Reasons the Prophet of Truth Was a Bit of a Jerk
limpid meadow
Lol
humble yacht
Sounds like a Hidden Xperia video
limpid meadow
Gotta compete somehow
last anchor
You guys ever colab on anything?
limpid meadow
Yeah, we did a "History of the Arbiter" pre-H5
We definitely want to collab again though.
But this isn't lore discussion, so we should probably move on
last anchor
Speaking of the Arbiter, that titles gone back to what it meant originally before the Covenant usurped it yes?
gilded mason
Yeah.
limpid meadow
Somewhat, yeah
gilded mason
Or at least, attempting to
limpid meadow
I'd say it's more like it was before it was a title of shame
humble yacht
In ancient Sangheili culture, Arbiters were like Judge Kings
limpid meadow
Because pre-covie Arbiters were basically Warlords.
last anchor
Thats what I meant, yeah.
limpid meadow
So I guess that fits Thel in some ways.
Though he probably wants to be more of "Kaidon of Kaidons"
humble yacht
alright there, Skolas
limpid meadow
Lol
last anchor
Hehehehe
limpid meadow
Unlike Skolas, Thel is actually respectable
gilded mason
He's come a long way.
last anchor
Also Thel has a sultry voice. Skolas just...kind of rumbles
limpid meadow
Long way left to go
gilded mason
How did I know you were gonna say that. 😏
limpid meadow
Can't resist Halo references :P
last anchor
Who can?
stoic hamlet
raises, then lowers hand
stoic hamlet
that's just one cell. The Insurrection isn't a unified force really, it's loosely connected cells and groups that work together.
Koslovics aren't insurrectionists though, they're unrelated to the more well known one from the 2400's to the present.
and we don't know.
that area of halo isn't well documented
stoic hamlet
We don’t know specifics. The Interplanetary wars aren’t really a developed area of the lore. It’s possible but we just don’t have enough information
Also, I recommend you use Halopedia instead of HaloFandom. Halopedia is a much more accurate source
obsidian thistle
Halo Mythos is the go to book for that early stuff tbh.
sinful quartz
I think life on the inner worlds was pretty good
We don't know
The lore on them is insanely sparse
stoic hamlet
Your best bet is looking on Halopedia or reaching Mythos
versed helm
What's the healing factor for spartans
versed helm
Kinda
But they're obviously trying to go for a sorta Warhammer-esque aesthetic
Which doesn't really gel with some interpretations of Halo's lore and art style.
Like, sure soldiers from Halo have fancy-looking body armour and sci-fi weapons, but they've also got, y'know. Combat webbing. Storage space. Packs. Optics. Useful little doodads.
But who knows what stuff really looked like during the Interplanetary War.
I suspect part-way between Halo's style and the modern era, though xD
Maybe with some less-advanced, less-streamlined precautions for exatmospheric combat - kinda astronaut-vibes.
obsidian stag
Earlier I was toying with some marines and I noticed something. I noticed their ranks and how the chevrons were facing down like UK. This would signify that it’s not American. At least not native. Anyways, I’d like an answer as to why the chevrons are upside down. Ping me please.
tardy topaz
It's based on Aussie
I think
Because Bravo 6 is in Sydney. Just an idea @obsidian stag
obsidian stag
The marines in reach.
carmine sleet
They're not marines in Reach, they're army
autumn urchin
How do people in Reach match their biological clock to the 27-hours day
gaunt karma
you probably just get used to it after a while
hardy goblet
Definitely
I can easily imagine myself sleeping 3 more hours every morning and still have a normal day after it 😉
gaunt karma
I could definitely use those extra three hours :p
hardy goblet
Not that I know of 
Since antigrav tech is still in the incorporation phase in UNSC; I don't really see it in the civilian sector
sinful quartz
I never got around to watching Nightfall. It still worth it
Even if Locke's character is Basiclaly as interesting as White bread
versed helm
haha
sinful quartz
Its Why I didn't get halo 5 at launch. I heard that chief only had three missions
Chief Or no buy
Unless Its a spin-off
hardy goblet
Propulsion is not anti gravity
Since it doesn't suppress gravity, it just adds an opposite force the same strength
I guess
lofty lichen
remeber how the flood was created bois
last anchor
Yes. The Precursors got mad that the Forerunners exterinated them so several turns themselves into Dust so they could return later.
The Dust went bad and when the humans and Prophets put it on their space-dogs it made them grow weird stuff. And then the Flood came out of that
lofty lichen
by the shanshuyum
whatever they where called
is it possible for a Covenant CAS carrier to destroy the UNSC infinity?
gilded mason
Possibly. I imagine they'd be closely matched, and whoever is able to get off the first shot decides the victor.
lofty lichen
UNSC infinity would probably win since it has 4 MAC cannons
gilded mason
It's also able to be disabled fairly easily, looking at Escalation.
lofty lichen
True
Armament: 4× CR-03, Series-8 MAC (2 bow, 2 bow flank) (Pre-2558 refit) 4× CR-03B, Series 8 MAC (2 bow, 2 bow flank) (Post-2558 refit) 350× 24 M42 Archer. 250× 30 M75 Rapier. 500× 20 M96 Howler. 830× M965 Fortress 70mm guns. 10× Dorsal Mark 2551 MAC network. 85× Dorsal M85 Anti-Aircraft Gun network.
compare it to CAS class carrier
1× Infernus-pattern superheavy excavation beam[4]
2× Urpeon-pattern superheavy plasma lances[4]
8× Luxor-pattern heavy plasma beam emitters[4]
24× Mictix-pattern heavy plasma torpedo silos[4]
700× Ferriel-pattern pulse lasers[4]
Multiple Plasma cannons[5]
final plume
Have you guys ever looked into the size difference between Halo 3 and 4s' Forward Unto Dawn
gilded mason
343 has said that the size and design of FuD is not canon in Halo 4.
Forward Unto Dawn
final plume
Still, if you look at it, the difference is massive
gilded mason
lol
final plume
Technically no
stoic hamlet
it's different for gameplay purposes, nothing more
radiant sphinx
I believe it’s the art style
gilded mason
I would not find it hard to believe it was nano bots since they changed Chief's armor that way.
lol
radiant sphinx
But why would nanobots still leave the ship half-destroyed assuming an updated schematic would have included the entire design.
ocean oracle
Probably not enough materials and Cortona probably saw it as useless to try and build a slightly less damaged ship
versed helm
It'd have been more a combination of nanobots and onboard fabrication units.
Presumably UNSC frigates have the means to manufacture certain shipboard components and supplies for its Marine contingent.
Furthermore, presumably the Dawn had surplus MJOLNIR Mark VI components in case Chief needed them on the Ark.
Additionally, it wouldn't have just been nanobots. Cortana might have had access to small maintenance and combat drones, too.
I don't think anything from Halo explicitly inspired by anything from Doctor Who.
Halo's influences lay more in the direction of Predator and Aliens, plus certain bits of military sci-fi like Starship Troopers.
But it also has a very unique direction of its own, with a lot of fairly original concepts - or hard sci-fi concepts that hadn't been drawn into games yet, like the Halo Array itself.
last anchor
They did say you can do surgery on people in cryotubes. Thats how Halsey brought Linda back
gilded mason
The one from Origins?
last anchor
Theres no set design for a Gravemind.
Its a biological mass that can shift and change as it sees fit
versed helm
Giant egg
versed helm
Is see your "No set design for a Gravemind"
And raise you
"We've never even seen the Gravemind because it's a non-corporeal entity, we have simply seen certain high-level keyminds it has inhabited, and even then only in a controlled capacity designed to intimidate us."
rose matrix
the Forerunner novels did describe masses of Flood organisms large enough to be breaking atmosphere of planets
versed helm
I would just like to send out a desperate plea
That hopefully might someday make its way to the 343 lore department
native coral
versed helm
If they ever give us more technical lore on the combat armour worn by regular UNSC troops
Please make sure you specify that they have an outer buildup-layer of some kind of highly-advanced material that is rated to prevent problems caused by stopped rounds fragmenting and spalling on the armour.
I'm tired of seeing military tryhards talk about how hits to certain parts of UNSC body armour would shower you with tiny shrapnel
i mean
it would
but that's only in comparison to today's munitions
Just say that they've got an anti-spall coating that is rated to prevent dangerous fragmentation for any round the armour is rated to stop
That's my one wish
to be fair, marines cant take more than like a single round
of human weaponry
in-game at least. in lore it's a bit more in-depth
I recently overhauled an article on Halopedia in conjunction with a few other guys on the Halopedia Discord.
Most of the work was looking for reliable lore.
An M52B chestplate - or whatever armour Sergeant Lopez was actually wearing - can stop a burst of M118 FMJ-AP fire at a couple meter's range.
The only penetrating hit was when the fire got walked across an un-armoured section between her chest and shoulder.
The Motion Comic interpets the penetrating round having bounced off the chestplate's fastener, though it still didn't go very deep, implying standard-issue UNSC combat utilities might be subject to integrated fiber-armouring.
That's further supported by the lore surrounding TTR-training - intelligent nanofibers integrated into training fatigues - and a line from Sadie's Story calling an NMPD police jacket "fiber-armoured".
broken vapor
H3 campaign moment spoiler
||Okay but Imagine if Bungie was ballsy enough to go through with Miranda killing Johnson then herself to keep the index from being used. What would the prophets and/or brutes done?.||
not sure how else to ask
versed helm
I reckon they might've written the Covenant to somehow almost capture Chief.
broken vapor
Probably
fair hazel
why put in spoilers
radiant sphinx
Probably should preface "mild Halo 3 spoiler" if you really wanted it to have an effect
broken vapor
Should be better
versed helm
@versed helm chief had been captured before
he was captured while on the Dreadnought iirc
Right. But was talking specifically in the context of that mission and the events surrounding it.
modest marsh
Chief was "captured" for like 10 seconds
versed helm
it was a bit longer, but ok lol
icy plaza
versed helm
Nice try
unique rune
an attempt was made
versed helm
You think a server as O F F I C I A L as this one would allow those hijinks?
unique rune
versed helm
tiny yarrow
versed helm
Probably weaponry that's very similar to modern stuff.
Guns don't seem like they're going to change an awful lot for a while.
It would not surprise me to see an AR-15 derivative platform in use with the UNSC going into the interplanetary war.
Or maybe an early MA5 predecessor. Something bullpup, maybe chambered in 7.62x51. The TAVOR 7 springs to mind.
That would be the only one.
Presumably more advanced plate-carriers, but with the beginnings of the heavy supplemental ballistic armour we see in the 26th century.
And by heavy, I mean, bulky. It's actually quite lightweight.
Pretty good, I'd say!
Huge mechsuit notwithstanding xD
Though maybe that stuff was pretty commonplace in the 22nd century but grew more specialised going forwards.
It's creatively pretty fertile territory.
But the ballistic armour looks like a bulkier, less streamlined version of what 26th century UNSC troops wear, which makes sense.
I mean, clearly the UNSC hasn't been putting that much effort into development for infantry weapons in the intervening 350-something years. They haven't needed to.
They won the human arms race xD
I really don't really have the intel to answer that.
Presumably all the armies are equipped with whatever they could get access to.
I see the Friedens and Koslovics as being a little more rag-tag, and utilizing a fairly broad variety of systems.
But I've got no way to be sure.
As for time to kill? Well, realistically speaking, time-to-kill doesn't factor in much without energy shields.
Either your armour will, or won't stop a bullet.
A UNSC marine can survive an extended burst of AR fire if it hits her in the chest, but if she gets shot in the face, she's gonna die xD
I guess it just depends on if their materials were as advanced in the 22nd as the 26th.
And I doubt that.
But the ammunition may not be as potent either.
UNSC body armour is very resilient, generally speaking.
Against things that can be stopped by lightweight body armour, that is.
So I don't rightly know.
Presumably the soldiers of the insterstellar war could be killed by the weapons of the insterstellar war, that's all we know for sure.
The difficulty with Promethean soldiers is that a lot of them isn't actually attached.
Gravitic engineering and all that.
But the general profile is kinda reminiscent.
Don't know how you'd alter it, unless you're some kinda hobby big shot xD
Well, good luck with that.
versed helm
You can look up this stuff on Halopedia xD
Or at least, the stuff we have answers to.
versed helm
Imagine if ancient Earth in Halo was similar to 2001: A Space Odyssey
A bunch of apes find a forerunner monolith...
versed helm
Literally not the foggiest.
Probably vehicles more in-line with modern conventions and relatively primitive attempts at exatmospheric transport.
Probably big, clunky landing craft instead of nimble dropships like the pelican.
When it comes to UNSC forces, the pelican is the be-all-end-all. It's all your transport and infantry-support needs rolled into one, as long as it's not blown out of the sky by fuel rods.
Think of it more as an airborne IFV with orbital transit capabilities than just a dropship. That 70mm autocannon under the chin would make a Bradley IFV blush, and it can come with all the manner of missile and rocket pods.
It can also AIRLIFT TANKS.
woven monolith
Is YapYap Canon?
versed helm
He has a place in canon
sinful quartz
*in a cannon
versed helm
That too. He is the cannon
sinful quartz
You know.
Noble Six should have set off the bomb instead of Jorge
Spartan III's are expendable, spartan II's are not
modest marsh
No Spartan should be viewed as “expendable”
And for that matter, Six wasn’t like the rest anyway
modest marsh
What difference does it make to Jorge how or why Noble Six came to be when he’s objectively the better Spartan for the job all around?
Not to say Jorge wasn’t a beast himself, but evidently Six could do a lot he couldn’t
And well
Jorge felt the need to heroically sacrifice himself for the planet he loved
modest marsh
Six had no personal attachment to Reach, and he’s a younger Spartan that can do much more with his life than Jorge could anyway
I imagine he figured his time was up
stoic hamlet
There was really no reason not to leave B-312’s gender a mystery, tbh. The one line they refer to him as a him could have easily been substituted with a “they”.
versed helm
B-312’s always been referred to with ambiguity
Not once were they officially acknowledged as male or female in print
And that’s kinda a nice attention to detail
stoic hamlet
My six was always (and still is) female as well, so it hurt to read
versed helm
I kinda feel that was lazily handled
It wouldn’t have hurt to leave them as they/them etc
stoic hamlet
yep, that's what i said above, it would have changed nothing
autumn urchin
was the pillar of autumn the only survivor of reach
versed helm
Have anyone tried recreating the Sangheili language based on what's known?
stoic hamlet
no @autumn urchin
several ships escaped. evac transports, Prowlers, other UNSC ships
versed helm
@versed helm
I don't remember it was back when Halo 4 was new and the sentence is lost...
was it based on the actual language?
or just using a font based on it
lol
It was and I remember writing it like it was from the arbiters prospective
'it was'
i just asked if you took a shower and your answer was "soap"
lol
It was based on the actual language
ah
Well, the wiki has a lot of words and stuff about grammatical features so we'd have more to work off if we used that as a base
The reason I asked is I kind of wanted to make a Halo Machinima series and I wanted to feature a Sangheili language for some parts.
Well I DO remember that every letter was some sort of weird triangle and writing was a very slow process
I'm more concerned with grammar.
Phonotactics, morphology and syntax
That sort of stuff
Yeah, I didn't find anything on Grammer when I was writing it. I end up just writing a very sloppy and hard to understand sentence
There's instances where we see the sangheili speak in the later games right?
Yes, I think so
We can discern grammar structure stuff from how they speak
Like, the subject, verb, object order
modest marsh
Spartan Ops had a lot of Sangheili speech
versed helm
Good. Do we have their direct translations?
gilded mason
There are subtitles for what they say.
versed helm
Now we're making progress 😀
obsidian thistle
Oh that
Erm... I have bad news for ye. Even if it were possible there isnt enough to speak it with any accuracy yet... sorry
versed helm
Oh of course, but we can just speculate with what we don't have
By pinning down the underlying phonotactics and morphology
versed helm
Pretty sure the UNSC strictly enforces neo-liberal ideology
So communists would probably just be shot
Neo-conservatism is on a very different scope
Neo-liberalism has a lot more to do with economics and foriegn policy. Free trade, economic liberalisation, all that stuff.
Not so much that it outright contradicts neoliberalism.
The US is more or less the centre of both ideologies, with both being core to how it functions in the past 30 or so years
That's nonsensical
What influences did neocons draw from Trotskyism?
I've never seen neo-cons talk abut permanent revolution.
I guess that point still stands but I really doubt it's inspired by Trotskyism.
I really haven't seen any evidence of Trotsky being a Zionist.
ripe sage
This isn't really appropriate for this server guys
Take it to DM if you must continue but let's end it here
stoic hamlet
D:
versed helm
Sorry, Samus. Understood. I just found the claim uniquely bizarre.
ripe sage
I don't see how that is relevant to anything happening in here
That's creepy and well outside the realm of appropriate.
stoic hamlet
^^^^
versed helm
Did I miss something that was deleted?
gilded mason
Yes
stoic hamlet
One of my answers was along with @simple locust making an inappropriate comment.
Back on (loose) topic, anyone hope we see an MA5K in Infinite, and how could it be differentiated from the regular MA5D?
versed helm
@stoic hamlet OF COURSE
I reckon they could make it a less-accurate MA5D with the same damage per hit that you switch to really quickly.
If the MA5D has the same accuracy as it does in Halo 5 in infinite, the K should be closer to Halo CE.
Eh, guess it overlaps with the M20 then.
But who knows what weapons they'll have.
My dream arrangement for a UNSC weapons list is Halo 2 style, with a battle rifle and an MA5-series carbine instead of the M7.
So you've got the heavier battle rifle and a more compact assault carbine.
If the SMG factors in there, it'd be dual-wieldable but lower damage per hit. Or, it's about the utility - it can be, like, M20S configuration with a scope and a silencer.
And you go with a gunfighter-style M6.
Like, realistically speaking, the MA5 is probably more of an actual battle rifle than the BR-series. Just because of its utterly absurd barrel length and calibre.
The thing is the length of an M16 with a hardcore "everything as far back as possible" bullpup configuration. You could easily snipe unshielded targets with it, given the 7.62x51mm ammo.
Probably why the UNSC went with it. They just needed a robust, do-all platform for colonial work that could fight at very long range but also do work up close.
Kinda makes me question the DMR's purpose for existing, though.
carmine sleet
Likely due to how the army used it over BRs for their marksmen because they felt it was more reliable
versed helm
I mean, sure. But practically, it probably has about the same barrel-length as the MA5B and fires the same ammunition. The only difference is the optic, which as we've seen, MA5s can also be fitted with.
My only guess is that the DMR actually uses an extremely high-power marksman's ammunition instead of just the standard FMJ-AP that requires a more resilient chamber.
And they made the rest of the rifle a little more ergonomic for marksmen as well.
carmine sleet
I may not know the context but whatever it was you asked Arrowtongue, it's best you don't even talk about it if they deleted it
versed helm
It involved talking about political ideologies that are completely outdated and pointless in Halo's context, I think.
Smh
carmine sleet
I see
versed helm
Y'all need to be more woke and existential.
carmine sleet
Anyway, I wonder what the strangest planet (Not including any artificial planets) is within the Halo universe
versed helm
Balaho seems pretty off the chain.
carmine sleet
Aye, I'd say Balaho is up there for sure
Then there's the Planet of Red and Blue
That one's pretty unique due to how it's between two suns
versed helm
Man, I really need to read Broken Circle
carmine sleet
I recommend you do, it was a good read
versed helm
I've been putting it off on account of feeling more into modern Halo stuff for, I dunno. Since it came out.
And by modern, I mean, 26th century, HCW-focused.
But I should broaden my mind.
5 years. Five looong years. That's how long Broken Circle was sitting in Grim's bookcase.
carmine sleet
Ah, I understand what you mean
ripe sage
@simple locust Let me get this straight. I come in, as an admin, and do what I feel is appropriate and ask you to stop discussing inappropriate things and your first response is to ask if I'm single. then when I, and others, call you out on that being creepy (because spoiler: it's creepy), you try to take the moral high ground.
no. no part of that is normal behavior. i don't care what kind of story you're trying to spin about "social spaces" and whatnot. i'm legitimately getting creeped out and i'm asking you to stop or you'll be removed permanently for my safety.
native coral
Listen to her, she has the high ground
carmine sleet
If I've learnt anything from being online, it's to never ask stuff like that. People deserve to have privacy
stoic hamlet
^^^
obsidian thistle
Well to move on... cause this is not lore conversation.
Who is everyones fav Spartan?
stoic hamlet
Counter question @obsidian thistle:
Which generation?
obsidian thistle
Counter: I was vague to keep it open for any lore convo.
stoic hamlet
Touché
gilded mason
Fred seems nice, for a Spartan.
carmine sleet
S-II: Kelly
S-III: Lucy
S-IV: Buck
stoic hamlet
For the S-II’s: Kurt
S-III’s: all my OC’s Holly
S-IV: Grant
carmine sleet
Kurt, Linda, Jorge, Jun and Vale are honourable mentions for me
gilded mason
He wants to be banned for some reason.
boreal bane
Gone
weak elm
And I thought the general got off topic...
stoic hamlet
Oh I was joking. Sorry, should have clarified
boreal bane
Even jokingly
versed helm
Pretty broad bracket there
stoic hamlet
Well of course
versed helm
People can have different favs, but I think there's a pretty set-in-stone top 5.
Though I'll wait till Slipstream Tech answers to see if I'm right.
stoic hamlet
Better allow for variety than forcing one to be locked into a set bracket.
Especially because we have less than 100 to choose from
There’s no reason to further narrow it down
gilded mason
Top 5 are definitely Solomon, Malcolm, Roma, Victor, and Vinh.
versed helm
You're a madman
stoic hamlet
Nah, he’s a heretic! /s
weak elm
Top five is kinda hard but Sam is definitely #1.
versed helm
I mean, I understand why John isn't everyone's favourite S-II, but you cannot rationalize a top 5 without him.
He did so much.
And he is very likable and well-built as a character if you really get down to it.
stoic hamlet
But it’s about personal favourites not their contributions
gilded mason
But it’s about personal favourites not their contributions
Indeed.
autumn urchin
ok now top favorite vehicles
stoic hamlet
I see what you’re saying, but by that logic say, B-312 could be the #1 S-III, but he’s obviously not
versed helm
"Only one other Spartan has that rating..."
carmine sleet
- Kelly, she's quick and sounds British
- Linda, First Strike has all the reasoning needed
- Jerome, Halo Wars 2 made me want more of him in the future
- Kurt, he was a nice guy
- Fred, he's one that I think needed to shine more in Halo 5 for certain but they nailed the voice fof
versed helm
😉
gilded mason
"Only one other Spartan has that rating...
Oh god, that line.
versed helm
Don't worry, I'm kidding.
gilded mason
lol
versed helm
I know it was just advertisement nonsense.
For me, not that anyone asked, it's John, Kurt, Jerome, Linda, Fred.
You'll notice it's roughly in the order of exposure to them.
versed helm
He and Linda kinda battle it out.
stoic hamlet
Considering he’s far more explored than Jerome and Linda
versed helm
Linda got a huge surge thanks to Lone Wolf.
versed helm
Jerome is just so charismatic, though.
You can sense it.
The way he talks - he's the best leader of the bunch when it comes to ordinary men and women.
He's the one Spartan I could imagine adjusting perfectly well to normal life without any issues at all.
stoic hamlet
Kurt will remember that
spiral lily
I would have Kurt, Jorge, John, Linda, Fred
versed helm
Actually, I say that thing about Jerome being the best leader, but John is also an extremely charismatic individual.
He's not suave by any means.
But he'd be an extremely reassuring man to fight with, and that's demonstrated by the books.
stoic hamlet
Ehh, I feel his charisma comes from his actions not his words
spiral lily
Jai is great too
carmine sleet
All of Grey Team is great
stoic hamlet
Like early John v Kurt or Jerome I’d take Jerome or Kurt any day
versed helm
The Flood John is best John.
As a leader, that is.
His interactions with the Marines are all kinda heart-warming somehow.
stoic hamlet
IIRC Halsey came to the same conclusion in Ghosts: people followed John because of what he was, but people followed Kurt because of who he was.
stoic hamlet
John is (pardon my 40K comparison) Angron or Curze to Kurt’s Guiliman or Dorn.
A great fighter and sometimes leader, but overall he’s not meant for the big picture strategies.
stoic hamlet
I don’t mean in terms of personality
stoic hamlet
Just in terms of purpose
versed helm
Ehh, I dunno about that way of conceptualizing it.
I think maybe Halsey's statement meant just what you said earlier about John leading by example and Kurt winning you over more.
Which is true.
But what's a more effective way to lead?
stoic hamlet
Yeah the analogy doesn’t really work, as all four S-II leaders have traits of all the primarchs
versed helm
I won't lie, I'll always be a staunch John-first guy. I just got so attached to him reading TFoR and The Flood at such a young age. It wouldn't be wrong to call him a genuine role model for me throughout my youth.
stoic hamlet
I think John’s is, but not because Kurt’s method is bad, but because he himself is flawed and his decision making near the end were at fault
last anchor
I like em all equally tbh.
versed helm
So anything that takes him down a peg won't sit well with me.
You just gotta accept when you're irrational about something xD
stoic hamlet
It’s something I enjoy about Ghosts is that we can see Kurt fighting a battle in his mind throughout the book
There’s a line where Kurt vows never to let another Spartan die if he could help it but then a page later he admits they’re all going to die sometime and that it’s inevitable.
It’s like he can’t let go
He criticizes himself way to hard, and it impairs his judgement
Specifically the SPI armour scene
stoic hamlet
Yes
last anchor
Oh yes, that instance.
Mutters angrily
versed helm
There's some rationalization for it.
stoic hamlet
I both love it and hate it
versed helm
Perhaps he felt that the Spartan IIIs wouldn't be operating at maximum capability if they felt he could out-perform them.
He wanted them to know that in any given engagement they would be the be-all-end-all.
stoic hamlet
I love it because only Kurt would handicap himself to try and keep unit cohesion and morale, but I hate it because he knows he’s making the wrong choice overall, he even says it IIRC.
stoic hamlet
Oh I know stealth wise it’s terrible
versed helm
Of course in SPI you can't punch an elite across the room, so it's a win-lose xD
stoic hamlet
SPI is a much better choice in that regard
Ehh, you might be able to
I know that was joking but if an unarmoured S-II can kick an exoskeleton across a room I don’t see why an S-III in SPI can’t kick an elite.
last anchor
An S-III in SPI is still a nasty combination
stoic hamlet
Something faster than the human eye can follow, with no qualms about killing you or themselves to complete the mission, in armour that makes them essentially invisible and impossible or hard to detect by even Forerunner systems, yeah, I’ll take a bullet instead of fight that, thank you
versed helm
I mean I'd take a bullet instead of fight an ordinary man who's better at fighting than me and is trying really hard to kill me.
Augmentations aside.
Depends on the bullet though xD
stoic hamlet
But you could potentially win that fight
versed helm
Look, if it was a fight against a huge rugby-player bloke who also happened to be a karate master
stoic hamlet
Against an S-III in SPI I don’t think so unless you’re super lucky. Of it gets hand to hand you’re done
stoic hamlet
I get you
versed helm
There is some chance of survival
But if they really want you dead they can make sure it happens
stoic hamlet
Of course
versed helm
And I don't think it's possible for me to exert enough force to actually harm a Spartan in any way
Except maybe poke them really hard in the eye
versed helm
No armour.
stoic hamlet
But reaction time is a factor as well
versed helm
Maybe I could inflict a surface-level cut by biting them.
This is "no armour, they're completely immobile and not fighting."
Like, on a biological level, I have no weapons that could hurt them.
stoic hamlet
.....actually thinking about it, when has a Spartan II or III ever actually died in hand to hand in a 1v1?
autumn urchin
didnt john killed 2 odst and severely hurted another in a boxing match
stoic hamlet
That Red Team fight annoys me
versed helm
Well, they did lose
autumn urchin
and he was still a teen
versed helm
They just didn't die
stoic hamlet
Don’t get me started on that
gaunt karma
pretty sure a Spartan of any caliber would lose against a brute like Atriox
stoic hamlet
It looks cool
gaunt karma
could lose*
stoic hamlet
Until you slow it down
gaunt karma
important distinction
stoic hamlet
And actually think
versed helm
Try meleeing a brute chieftain to death on legendary
stoic hamlet
There’s a lot in that fight that could have ended both sides
versed helm
I'm saying, it's possible that an absolutely exceptional brute with close quarters weaponry and some kind of powered armour could win that fight.
stoic hamlet
Oh I don’t disagree
versed helm
In terms of specific events in the fight, that's down to cinematic stuff I guess.
stoic hamlet
But there’s a lot Red Team could have done better
stoic hamlet
I’ll need to answer later I’m afraid, being called away for something
versed helm
And be aware that I think it's a fairly solid fan-consensus that the speed of events in cutscene fights with Spartans gets toned down so it doesn't look a little bizarre.
kk
stoic hamlet
But look at the end of the fight, where “Recon 1” contacts Red Team
Look at their positioning
What weapons they have
Then look at where Atriox is
last anchor
True
last anchor
Battle Rifles aren't known for their effectivenss in close quarters, epecially against shock armored opponents
Atriox had the right kit and the right weapon for a close in brawl like that
versed helm
I think the escape was a certain moment of understanding.
An unspoken thing passing between Atriox and Red.
"I already beat you, and you can leave if you want, but you're still doomed."
Plus, some tactical element of interrogating them.
I'm guessing Red Team got the message and didn't want to try their luck.
last anchor
Hence the "Hit them with archers, all the archers!"
stoic hamlet
But they could have shot him in that moment
They just kinda stood there
That’s what I mean
modest marsh
The fights aren’t choreographed well for the most part, I agree
They need to get someone from one of those Japanese action games to do the choreography lol
versed helm
What do you mean "those Japanese action games"
I dunno. The vibe I get is that maybe, by some method, shooting Atriox in that situation wouldn't have done any good.
As in, there might've been some way for him to survive that they became aware of while fighting him. An energy shield?
Blur doesn't tend to show those, and a really powerful one might not flare up so noticeably if gets hit by a few 9.5mm or 12.7mm rounds.
Maybe they just knew he'd be fast enough for the shot not to matter if they took it.
And knew that if they took it, they'd be dooming themselves.
The actual fight before they hotfoot is quite logical, imo.
remote spruce
Hard to tell what Banished thingy has or does not have a shield
versed helm
Did any of the covenant races experience something similar to the medieval times?
Would this song fit in Halo?
https://youtu.be/8O6MQhKiHdY
deft grotto
I’d say the modern Covenant has what could be called a caste system, which is pretty medieval
versed helm
I like to conceptualize the Covenant as having a very medieval-esque military structure in general.
I mean, after all, we don't really know a whole lot about how recruitment works for them, but procurement of high-quality gear seems to be a factor of personal influence.
Hence the wildly varying shield capabilities of elites. Maybe higher ranked elites can generally afford more expensive equipment from renowned assembly forges.
Plus, I'm willing to bet low-rank Covenant troops that aren't mercenaries are recruited via a levy system of some kind.
You've certainly got a dynamic where the higher-ranked nobleman-proxies are the striking arm, the shock troops and leaders, while the rest of the troops play more supportive roles.
imo, jackals and grunts just exist to stand in formation and put fire on things while the elites actually break the enemy, with the obvious exception of specialist roles.
Of course, no parallel in militaristic structure is going to be exact - Medieval Europeans weren't exactly spaceborne, nor did they have plasma weapons or were entirely distinct species.
But the potential is there for them to functionally bear thematic similarity. They already do, in some ways.
But to answer the original question, the Sangheili basically live in a medieval society, with keeps and kaidons. Earlier up their tech advancement, they'd have resembled medieval Japan or Europe quite a bit.
I wonder how medieval Europeans might've gone against them in some kind of whacky fight. Not too well, I'm guessing, because of the raw physical disparity. But never underestimate a couched lance.
Wonder if elites had an equivalent to the mounted knight, or if they're just foot sloggers.
Sangheili can’t really mount because they’d be too heavy
carmine sleet
Elites wouldn't use horses, they likely have something on their home planet that can support their weight and use for mounted combat
Also, I'd say the Covenant is more akin to the Roman Empire than any medieval military structure
versed helm
The Sangheili seem more like a dedicated warrior class than either. Something like a knight or samurai
Or whatever the ones in India were called
lavish galleon
Castes
Bhramin: San'Shyuum
Kshatrayia: Sangheili
ect.
lavish galleon
But other races ride vehicles as well
versed helm
Ye
Unggoy only do sometimes
They know how
They just prefer to let Sangheili handle it
lavish galleon
Which kind of leans towards a more "fuzzy" caste system
With roles being less strict (except for San'Shyuum)
lavish galleon
Are there?
lavish galleon
I was mostly referring to how they can only hold the top positions
lavish galleon
Interesting
versed helm
You see them in Shadow of Intent
lavish galleon
Didn't know that until know
I assumed that they viewed themselves above personally fighting
carmine sleet
Most of the Prophets do. Doesn't stop things like the Prelates from existing
lavish galleon
I guess the difference is that they are not forced/expected to fight
carmine sleet
Indeed, many of them are unfit for combat anyway due to how the prophets had evolved over the many years
versed helm
The Prelates seem to be equivalent to Spartans. Absolute high class warriors.
Top of the top
lavish galleon
And also the modifications
carmine sleet
Aye, augmented with the best tech the Covenant had, which I believe was Forerunner gene splicing tech or something along those lines
versed helm
I did some digging about Halo 6, apparently Halo 2 planted the seeds for the story of the logic plague in Halo 6 right?
but not just that
carmine sleet
Logic plague theory is unlikely
carmine sleet
Not really. They confirmed she isn't under the effects of the Logic Plague
carmine sleet
No link needed, look at her behaviour, if she was under the effects of the Logic Plague, surely her goal would be to release the Flood. Doing what she does currently doesn't seem like it would help the Flood infect the galaxy
versed helm
Did you not play Halo 4?
carmine sleet
I did, she was suffering from rampancy
Not to mention that the Cortana in Halo 5 is very much not the same one from Halo 4
versed helm
The Librarian says the foreunners tried upgrading themselves, but created the flood in the process
So in Halo 5 Cortana wants to purify humans and all that jazz
but in Halo 4 the forunners tried doing the same thing
and if Cortana is infected by the logic plague...
then this is the flood attempting mass creation
The Gravemind planted the seeds in her
carmine sleet
The Flood wasn't created by the Forerunners
gaunt karma
Precursors made the Flood
carmine sleet
Aye, not sure why Patrick thinks they're made by the Forerunners
versed helm
@carmine sleet why you so antagonising bro? I made a mistake
gilded mason
Doing what she does currently doesn't seem like it would help the Flood infect the galaxy
To play devil's advocate, while I don't think she has the logic plague either, what she's attempting is similar to what the Librarian criticized the Mantle for when the Flood basically consumed everything: all the power got consolidated under one faction, while the rest of galactic civilization could do nothing to defend themselves.
last anchor
The same trap the Forerunners fell into.
This is understandable cosidering we're dealing with a rampant fragment of Cortana, and one of the points of rampancy is megalomania and delusions of god-hood.
And what do you do when you put an AI that refuses to die when it should into the Domain? THIS.
versed helm
Maybe a Grivemind convinced the Foreigners to do that?
fair hazel
The didact was logic@plagued
last anchor
Nah. This all happened before the Flood even came back to the Milky Way.
It was just Forerunner hubris
fair hazel
But he didn’t go around releasing the floods
versed helm
The logic plague has wildly varying results.
spiral lily
Theory
“You humans... you have always been too reliant on distributed intelligences for your own welfare. It is a weakness that must be eradicated from your species.” - Intrepid Eye to Veta Lopez (Chapter 25, Halo: Last Light).
created uprising happens four years later
Intrepid Eye orchestrated the Created uprising?
Thoughts?
gilded mason
Nah.
spiral lily
But why notttttt
gilded mason
It is silly.
spiral lily
What no
It’s a direct quote 😤
That provides foreshadowing 😤
I should make Halo conspiracy theory videos
carmine sleet
The theory falls apart very quickly considering that Cortana had no time to ever encounter Intrepid Eye between Halo 3 and Halo 5
spiral lily
But the Domain
What if
Intrepid Eye got access to the Domain, which she would have as an Archeon Class Ancillary
Ancilla*
After the domain was restored, wouldn’t Intrepid Eye be able to detect that?
gilded mason
Not to mention from a meta standpoint, 343 would not make the reason the Created were formed to be from a character never before seen or mentioned in the games or even foreshadowed in Cortana-related media.
spiral lily
Ok I realize it’s far fetched
But it makes perfect sense if you take away all marketing and people jumping into the game for the first time stuff
Amirite or amirite?
gilded mason
No.
worn ether
@spiral lily don’t worry friend, I believe in you
spiral lily
@worn ether ❤
worn ether
❤️🇨🇦
spiral lily
Ah yes, a fellow Canadian!
green acorn
@carmine sleet her objective isn’t to release the flood. She is disabling everything using the guardians- which includes defenses, allowing the flood to slip-space in and take over planets with little to no resistance. She has the logic plague from the time between halo 2 and 3.
She is a pawn to the flood without realizing it
last anchor
Come to think of it, considering that Renegades takes place juuussstttt before the Created start up (cause we hear the starts of Halo 5 happening during it), and they mention Intrepid Eye in that (almost five years later) something tells me its not likely she was involved.
At some point in time the UNSC figured out what she was up too and put a stop to it
versed helm
humans have the mantle right now, correct?
soft quail
Is the mantle a mounted head of a precursor in the didacts living room on the ark?
green acorn
@soft quail its a theoretical chair signifying the holders of the responsibility and wellbeing of the galaxy- hence, the Mantle of Responsibility
Atleast i think thats right?
soft quail
So it's completely made up.
The forerunners truly were arrogant
I wonder if their genocide of the precursors which started the flood was part of that "mAnTlE oF rEsPoNsIbiLiTy"
versed helm
the forerunners didnt develop the mantle of responsibility
The forerunners didnt make it up
the precursors did
^
it was then passed to the forerunners
but the precursors ended up not liking how they were handling it
that's where the conflict began
and then the forerunner defeated the precursors
soft quail
What do you even get with the mantle?
simple locust
Is it like NATO?
soft quail
Why would humanity care about the mantle?
soft quail
Who is going to enforce it?
versed helm
it was originally supposed to be handed down to humanity
but the didact didnt want that
as he hated humans
what? no
soft quail
Sounds like it
soft quail
A self-given right to Lord over everything and enforce your will
versed helm
it's not really self-given
you do actually gain power
its symbolic
but it is mostly a symbolic hold
soft quail
what did 343 do to Halo?
versed helm
you dont "control everything" like your thinking
this is pre-343 stuff
this was bunjie
bungie
soft quail
Is it hidden in a terminal?
versed helm
no
several
dude
technically it is
its in a lot of the books
that's the main source though, yeah
books explain all of this
and all in halo 4
maybe halo 5
The importance of the Mantle is a powerful idea because it's a philosophy relating to purpose.
halo 4/5 just feed off what the books set up
^
last anchor
Took em long enough to figure that out too
soft quail
Or in Halo 5s case, not explain anything in game
versed helm
they did
Only if you're not paying attention.
they explained a lot
^^
ye
to listen to halo 5s story you need to know book lore
tbh
last anchor
As it should be
versed helm
to understand it
that's its only downfall as far as being a casual campaign experience
soft quail
Eh. Having to do homework to understand a video game storym
versed helm
but it DOES say '5' in the name
its not "homework"
tbh halo lore is actually really interesting
^^
and all of the books are excellent
radiant sphinx
Not if you enjoy reading it
versed helm
very!!
Ghost of onyx is amazing
they're the only books ive read more than 5 times
yES
soft quail
I'm still busy with Warhammer 40k books
versed helm
First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx
oh god
Rip kurt
😦
WH40K books are endless
^^
radiant sphinx
Wish I could set aside more time to read some of the Halo novels, I’ve read none...
versed helm
Too much lore
audiobooks
very good alternative
^^
Most are on youtube
i listen to them when exercising or drawing
or even working
radiant sphinx
Alas, I’m off to read my Euro textbook :’)
versed helm
my condolences
last anchor
RIP brother
versed helm
ghost of onyx tells you about so much, and a little about the mantle
soft quail
Man. I just hope they return to the original storytelling from CE in game. Explain nothing and blow up some stuff :P
versed helm
I hope not
i hope not as well
That would get more fans angry than happy
and CE had lore
because from that logic
to someone unexperienced
that's halo 5 in a nutshell
they made books right after CE
soft quail
Halo is turning into 3 hours of cutscenes and 4 hours of playing the game
versed helm
cutscenes havent increased
Halo has always had a lot of cutscenes
i'd pay money for a Final Fantasy 13 style halo
have you ever paid attention to any game but halo 5? @soft quail
10 hours worth of cutscenes and a hundred of story gameplay
i'd buy it
soft quail
Reach through 3, mostly
versed helm
343i doesnt have that money tbh
343 definitely has that money
it's microsoft's biggest IP
you think?
soft quail
343 has a blank check
versed helm
if SE can fund FF for that much
MS can for sure do it if they wanted
okay true
Im getting infinite on my pc
im getting infinite on both (or all 3 if new consoles)
i want jerome and chief to meet up in infinite, but i know it wont happen
it'd be a reunion of the ages
They dont know red teams alive
soft quail
I want Cortana to get un-fricked
versed helm
probably hasnt seen each other since red team were washouts
red team never washed out lol
red team were washouts
of the augmentations
you're forgetting Red Team was John's original team
but were able to be re-augumented, and deployed later
im meaning halo wars 2 red team
i know
but still
soft quail
Are there any remaining Spartan 1s still in active service?
versed helm
active service?
good question
noi that we know of
there are some still alive though
but they arent really different in anyway
soft quail
How did GS come back to life?
versed helm
who?
soft quail
Pretty sure he exploded. 343 Guilty Spark
versed helm
he never died
soft quail
Getting lasered in the eyehole is medically (mechanically?) Inadvisable and results in a case of terminal death
gilded mason
@versed helm
red team never washed out lol
Yeah they did?
Despite eagerly embracing her destiny, Alice's body initially rejected the augmentation process and she had to be retrained separately, where she met similar 'wash outs' Douglas-042 and Jerome-092, her future partners in Red Team.
versed helm
he was thinking of fred, linda, etc. of red team\
gilded mason
Ah.
soft quail
Who retconned spark back to life?
versed helm
not sure about that
soft quail
Also where was the monitor for the ark?
Out shopping?
Or was it actually menicum bias?
versed helm
yeah @gilded mason i was more making a jab at the original Red Team
gilded mason
@soft quail
000 Tragic Solitude. You can read more about him in Hunters in the Dark.
@versed helm
Ah.
versed helm
the monitor of that ark was Adjutant Reflex, it was destroyed when Mendicant Bias, who was onboard truths keyship, hacked into the system
^^^^
versed helm
if ones stronger, yes, im pretty sure
soft quail
Should have turned off the wifi
versed helm
haha
soft quail
Or at least had a backup on a thumb drive
soft quail
Oops
soft quail
Could you just copy-paste AIs and have infinite AIs?
versed helm
no
soft quail
So all the UNSC has to do is wait 7 years for all the revolting AI to go rampant and off themselves
gilded mason
Cortana is giving them access to the Domain, I believe.
versed helm
^^
soft quail
Is that the McGuffin that saved her?
gilded mason
Yeah
versed helm
that's pretty much just because she's one of the rampant fragments of Cortana
i’m saying that because they start worshipping cortana
i think Kurt is one of the saddest deaths in Halo
soft quail
That would make infinite a really short game I guess
versed helm
Roland is a Smart AI
in more ways than one it seems
he’s not rampant also
he hasn’t lost his intellect
tbf some of the others werent rampant
they weren’t?
but they chose their path because they are smart ai, and have the ability to do so
soft quail
Wouldn't the logic plague just get spread like wildfire by Cortana?
versed helm
she's not infected with logic plague
soft quail
When why is she so stupid?
gilded mason
Because she is rampant
versed helm
i feel like you've been ignoring that fact every time we say it
once an ai goes into rampancy (you can see this from serena) they lost their smartness, and sense
soft quail
I thought her rampancy was cured
gilded mason
No.
versed helm
she was stabilized
so technically in a sense, yes
however
“rampancy” isn’t cured, just that she can’t die if that make sense
gilded mason
She injected all her rampant shards into the Didact's ship, which then found the Domain
versed helm
she was already rampant prior
and considering she's a shard of that rampancy
whatever that shard's thought process was prior
it will retain it
the original cortana is no more
gilded mason
Yup
versed helm
how old can elites be?
gilded mason
Nothing definite has been stated, but probably around 200 or so.
radiant sphinx
I've heard upwards of 200 years old
versed helm
because they is around chiefs age without the crying though
thel*
cryo*
how are we rating it, time is relative lol
does cortana have forerunner tech?
is she*
is she forerunner tech?
no lol
that being said
she's probably assimilated forerunner tech into her
so she's somewhat of a hybrid
is Roland the only AI on the infinity?
active
to my knowledge yes
he runs the whole infinity? i didn’t think even a smart AI has the power to
there could be dumb AI handling subroutines in CC environments
but i dont think that's the case
gotcha
and yes, smart AI overseeing everything is possible on that scale
the infinity is massive tho
considering how much personnel are housed on infinity and maintain it
gilded mason
After all, dumb AI can run cities like New Mombasa.
soft quail
Where there not any safeguards against AI revolt?
versed helm
is Isabel an smart or dumb?
gilded mason
Smart
soft quail
I miss auntie dot
versed helm
dumb ais ares till smart
terse gale
I can't remember if the AI that was John's teacher was dumb or not
gilded mason
Dumb, actually
versed helm
deja was dumb
gaunt karma
Deja was a dumb AI, wasn't she?
versed helm
she was strictly educational
gaunt karma
ye
versed helm
she was? i’m not known about her as much
soft quail
Yeah, tell that to the AI running all the automated defenses
gaunt karma
it's a title
terse gale
Yee, Deja
gilded mason
what book was she in?
Fall of Reach.
unique rune
The Mantle wasn't a system of government, more a system of belief.
versed helm
it was a philosophy
gaunt karma
what's that
versed helm
dude
unique rune
Oh, dear, I see we're doing this again...
gilded mason
Eyup
versed helm
it itself is not that government
gaunt karma
Leon, that guy from Resident Evil
versed helm
aNYWHO
radiant sphinx
how does proletariat revolution have anything to do with this
versed helm
w o r t
it has nothing
to do with this
i wonder how old isabel is
is it stated in Halo wars anywhere?
gaunt karma
^
versed helm
do AIs get smarter with age, or are they already at their full potential at birth?
depends
gaunt karma
probably get smarter and smarter