i heard he was somewhere
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
last anchor
Hes just titanically manly
fair hazel
Her role is commander , not quite rank. She’s spartan with role Spartan Commander.
last anchor
I know dude
fair hazel
You might want to re evaluate your sources Jupiter
last anchor
Im making a freaking JOKE. I know my lore
versed helm
all im saying is that halsey should have kept on kidnapping kids
gilded mason
Maybe not.
fair hazel
That is highly unethical...
gaunt karma
or she could not
last anchor
Ethics went out the window the moment the Covenant started burning planets
versed helm
ethics dont matter when humanity is on the brink of extinction
gaunt karma
they aren't on the brink anymore
and Spartans were made before the war with the Covenant
Spartan-IIs were made to fight the Insurrectionists originally
not aliens
fair hazel
Ethics aren’t supposed to go out the window
gaunt karma
then aliens happened to appear, and Spartan-IIs were conveniently there
versed helm
well that was to stop the ueg from splintering
well this was the librarians planning
gilded mason
well this was the librarians planning
Just the idea of super soldiers.
last anchor
Mind you now they dont need quality, they have QUANTITY.
The UNSC (again as Ive said before) doesnt need to worry about Spartan numbers, or even proper deployment.
Just SPAM them at the foe.
gaunt karma
and what better way to make the UEG stop splintering than to let the people know that the UEG kidnapped kids and forced them into intense training and body-altering augmentations to turn them into killing machines
fair hazel
Clones are unethical as well
gilded mason
Clones are still people, dude.
fair hazel
What..?
versed helm
i guess
gilded mason
It'd be like saying killing your twin isn't murder.
versed helm
it isnt
versed helm
its killing your twin
fair hazel
Attempting to be edgy isn’t making you seem cool... just saying...
modest marsh
Are you unsure why ending a human life is considered unethical
gaunt karma
also that
modest marsh
It’s a controversial subject no matter the circumstances
gaunt karma
as much as I like Spartan-IIs, kidnapping people is not the way to do it
modest marsh
Tbh they should just go back in time and steal kids who were going to die anyway 
carmine sleet
That's still unethical
modest marsh
It’s also a joke cmon
gaunt karma
they were minmaxing, peak condition kids equals peak condition bodies when augmented
:p
modest marsh
Apparently
gaunt karma
which is also why it was kept highly secret, as you don't often see people advertising "give us your star kids and we'll never give them back to you and they might die!"
modest marsh
I know a couple guys who are insistent on certain aspects of the Spartan program being fundamentally unnecessary and obtuse
last anchor
Didn't Karen Traviss write a whole book about this?
modest marsh
The emphasis on athletics, particularly physical strength, is admittedly a bit silly
modest marsh
It’s interesting to consider that Halsey went out of her way to make an impractical science project because she was obsessed with creating the “perfect human” rather than being efficient
She is after all a scientist, not a tactician
gaunt karma
ye, Spartan-IVs are more cost efficient
much easier to find a person who's been in war for a while
gilded mason
Is that just a thought, or was that stated somewhere about Halsey?
versed helm
The emphasis on athletics kinda makes sense. You probably need to be very fit to safely undergo augmentations.
gilded mason
Since in Fall of Reach, she was stressed out that some kids might not live and wanted to take the time to perfect the augments, while also knowing ONI didn’t care
modest marsh
They don’t need to be able to punch through tank armor though
versed helm
Non-military educational elements are helpful for creating well-adjusted and broadly-capable soldiers.
modest marsh
Not for what they were made for
gaunt karma
the peak athletics also means their body could survive the augmentations
versed helm
The fact that they can is an undeniable operational asset.
modest marsh
Spartans ended up being what they need to be out of sheer coincidence
last anchor
And that they'd be amazing baseline for said augmentations.
Since they directly improved already good baseline
versed helm
I think you're overthinking it to the point where your words lack an analysis of applied capability.
modest marsh
Spartans were created as surgical infiltration and assault units that were meant to target key insurrectionist assets and personnel
versed helm
And their insane physical capabilities allow them to operate in unforseen ways.
They expand the definition of what they do.
modest marsh
But I mean
versed helm
Through sheer capability
modest marsh
There’s a reason other special warfare units were distrustful of the program
versed helm
Which is?
modest marsh
It’s a gross misallocation of resources to equip a couple platoons of super soldiers that cost as much as a fleet cumulatively
versed helm
so elites have their own version of odsts
modest marsh
Yes
versed helm
They can win the battles fleets can't.
on floodgate you see some
why do they only show up once
modest marsh
Well all Covenant use drop pods
gaunt karma
cause that's where the game put them
modest marsh
They use them in Reach
versed helm
oh
modest marsh
And halo 2
modest marsh
Yeah probably not
versed helm
like rangers
modest marsh
Rangers are the closest
versed helm
Dude, Halopedia exists.
modest marsh
They have house-sized drop pods too
humble yacht
Spec Ops elites probably would be the closest suborganization to ODSTs
versed helm
But I don't buy the idea about Spartans being a mis-allocation of resources. First off, their program in-part exists to spearhead tech which is being rolled out to other units.
modest marsh
Would they really? Spec Ops deal more with covert actions, Rangers are closer to shock troops who use unconventional deployment methods
versed helm
Second, at the time when the Spartan program was initiated, another fleet wouldn't have helped.
modest marsh
They can redistribute that funding to other SWF units
versed helm
Would it have been a better idea to spend money on a less useful asset?
last anchor
Fleets dont win wars with innies
versed helm
Other SWF units that presumably had ample funding and weren't getting the job done, you mean.
ok well halopedia is restricted on school wifi
for some reason
modest marsh
I only mentioned the fleet part to illustrate how much funding the Spartan program ate
versed helm
Only so much regular men and women can achieve with money.
I think, in part, Spartans were designed to be a terror weapon.
An instoppable force, no matter how isolated, the threat of which alone would cripple the insurrection.
modest marsh
I mean how many MJOLNIR suits do you think were constructed by 2525
At least 75 right?
last anchor
Yeah. And the Materials Group kept making more.
versed helm
All were necessary and achieved more than funding for ODSTs or SpecWar operatives would have.
modest marsh
That’s so much freaking money
last anchor
And Looters; thats EXACTLY what they were supposed to be.
The "magic bullet" every military has wanted; unstoppable, unkillable, lethally effective
Soldier power fantasy made manifest
modest marsh
From ripping off the citizens they oppress 
last anchor
Well they weren't embroiled in a war for survival at that point.
Honestly, the Insurrection was, basically, the Middle East in space, across multiple planets.
versed helm
More complex, even.
last anchor
Both Russia and the U.S. threw (and continue to throw) obsurd amounts of money at it
modest marsh
Arleigh Burke-class destroyer: 1.843 Billion dollars
versed helm
Also the debate on the UNSC's morality overall is one that comes down to individual morality and spheres of thought.
Practically, it has some merit.
modest marsh
Imagine if there was a $200B hole in the US government’s pocket
versed helm
Philosophically, in the grand scheme of the universe and its many existential threats, the insurrection is pure evil imo
last anchor
Def
modest marsh
I think it’s very reasonable for the powers that be to be highly suspicious
versed helm
And the UNSC has basically only done right.
modest marsh
gilded mason
🤔
versed helm
I need a keyboard to lay this out for y'all
Brb
Alright, much better.
So, I admit - in the context of humanity's 26th century frontier, the UNSC is a dubious and often problematic thing.
They exert a lot of control, and they have taken many heavy-handed and morally flawed reactionary measures to insurrectionist threats.
But the thing is, the whole 26th century human-frontier context is one created by the insurrection, and the UNSC's reactionary moves should, in part, be blamed on them.
But I'm thinking bigger.
modest marsh
They also abuse their own conscripts too tho
versed helm
Even today, on Earth, IRL, 21st century, humanity is subject to a huge amount of existential threats.
Literally tomorrow, there are a great many reasons why humanity could be wiped off the face of the universe in an instant - it is a problem, and you should be scared.
Awww, ping off bot.
I don't understand what I'm typing that is annoying this literal dumb-AI
gilded mason
Would you rather the US had stayed a British colony?
versed helm
What is going on lol
main frost
versed helm
We are less than prepared to handle even non-sentient threats coming from the universe, and we could even wipe eachother out
You don't understand
I'm justifying the UNSC in a moral sense
Do you disagree with the idea that if humanity all worked together, the world would be better?
That's something I was told in kindergarten, man.
Not necessarily kill.
versed helm
I sound like a believer in the idea of the UNSC.
Economics is borderline irrelevant when it really comes down to the wire.
And it's too close to real politics.
rose matrix
wait, the civilian gov't is not as important as the military structure?
granted, civilian gov't hasn't had video games and books made about them
and isn't part of the protagonist's identity
versed helm
All that matters is that, if humanity stands unified under a central authority with the tools of solving problems - like the UN is an attempt at - and that authority passes certain base moral standards (like not bearing ideological resemblance in a functional way to past Earth regimes), it is justified.
modest marsh
The UNSC technically specializes in scientific research and exploration too
rose matrix
technically so does the US Navy
modest marsh
The CMA was supposed to handle colonial defense
rose matrix
UNSC is just the military command of the UEG
versed helm
And that authority cannot be blamed for reactionary measures that proportionally speaking aren't that severe against self-interested threats seeking to effectively undermine humanity's whole readiness in the face of an uncaring and dangerous universe for the sake of "independence", over virtues with no substance.
The Human-Covenant War, in Halo's context, entirely vindicates the UNSC's measures and philosophy.
And the CMA was in charge, until it became too compromised to function. The UNSC's superseding it was the favourable tactical outcome.
Next to the CMA not becoming compromised at all.
versed helm
The insurrection was, fundamentally, a regressionist movement. It sought to undermine the progress humanity had made by replacing a single, unified human front with a series of interstellar states that could, in theory, work against the rest of the human race in any number of ways.
gilded mason
single, unified human
What ties these humans together besides race?
versed helm
Consciousness.
We're the only entity we know for sure is conscious.
I can talk to you, and you can explain to me what the experience of consciousness is like. We all share it in a way we can relate to.
We don't understand its substance, so we cannot verify anything else does.
That makes humanity a single entity, and immeasurably precious.
Hypothetically, there is a moderate to high chance that any other entity like us - and the animals around us - are philosophical zombies. Biological computers - survival machines.
Our unified, certain experience of true, self-aware life is what makes every single one of us exactly equal, and is what we should fight for.
modest marsh
At its core, I think it’s fine to say everyone is better off for the UNSC to exist and its leadership collectively made the right choices when it mattered
But I feel like you could say the Covenant also did good by its people too
versed helm
And all the UNSC ever did was nuke a small colony that, presumably, declared itself to be directly at war with the UEG and posed some threat.
Though Far Isle is a bit of an unknown in the lore.
It can't really be used to argue either way until the context is better understood.
modest marsh
@versed helm they enslaved a race that was on the brink of extinction
versed helm
I personally think Far Isle was an incident in which some insurrectionist threat posed an immediate danger to one or more large UNSC ships in orbit
And it was a "kill or be killed" situation.
Anyway, that's why the UNSC is great
Earth-first, protect humanity, ooh-rah and all that.
gilded mason
Earth-first
I imagine that's at least one reason why some outer colonies aren't big fans.
versed helm
Outer colonists come from Earth too. And Earth has the greatest concentration of human lives.
If Eridanus was where the bulk of humanity lay, I'd probably say Eridanus-first.
But on the other hand, Earth-first doesn't mean "Outer-colonies mean nothing and are dirt under our feet".
gilded mason
They're not on Earth now though. Now they live somewhere else.
versed helm
Colonies tend to be very small compared to Earth.
Reach had a population of 700 million prior to glassing.
modest marsh
Grunts are a problematic species because they are seemingly incapable of being self sufficient without endangering themselves
Their planet was messed up
Because of their irresponsible industrialism
buoyant furnace
brutes for extinction almost maybe?
modest marsh
I’m not saying Grunts should always be slaves
gaunt karma
Brutes nuked themselves
modest marsh
But it’s indisputable that their subservience was a necessity for them to survive
And continue to survive
versed helm
Pretty bold words for someone who was ribbing on the UNSC a few moments ago
Surely death is preferable to independence.
Wait
modest marsh
I said the UNSC is right just that they’re not perfect
modest marsh
And the Covenant aren’t right
But without the Covenant their subjugated races would be worse off
If not extinct
The Prophets orchestrated a war against humanity as a means of self preservation because without the assistance of the other races they too would die off due to their severe genetic degradation
It’s not okay what they did
But like
What do you want them to do
versed helm
Justifiable in their case, yeah. I disagree with the subjugated races being better off. Except perhaps the Brutes, especially those under Atriox's command.
gaunt karma
they wanted to stay in control of the Covenant
versed helm
I don't think the rest of the Covenant would up-and-leave if they fessed up that they screwed the pooch.
I mean, there'd be upheaval, sure. But the Covenant is an insterstellar society - or was. Not just a religious mission.
modest marsh
What reason would the lower caste species have to serve the Prophets
versed helm
Well, strictly speaking, they don't "serve". They are part of the Covenant, and citizens with it.
Their military capacities are menial, but they're not all slaves, 100% of the time.
No more than medieval folk were under nobles.
gaunt karma
the main reason the grunts had a rebellion was because the jackals poisoned one of the grunt breeding areas, wasn't it?
modest marsh
Made them infertile
gaunt karma
and nothing happened to fix it, so they rebelled
modest marsh
Grunts have an issue with overpopulation
gaunt karma
I know
but this was an intentional jab from Kig-Yar to the Unggoy
not the breeding regulations
modest marsh
Grunts are weird
They seem to not value themselves as much individually because of their commonality and short maturity cycles
Plus let’s be honest
Of the Grunts we know
Most of them are functionally children
With bare minimum training and education
They simply don’t get a fair shake
One interesting thing about the Created arc
We may actually see the Grunts fulfill their true potential as a species under Cortana’s rule
versed helm
Food nipples for all
Though you should read Legacy of Onyx
I'd be more interested to see them in a collaborative relationship with the Elites, since they're the only species that seemed to treat them with respect.
modest marsh
What do you mean?
versed helm
lol, k
gaunt karma
what makes you think they're children?
modest marsh
They play with dolls
versed helm
Terrified grunts translated through patchy software before dying brutally.
gaunt karma
adults can play with dolls?
versed helm
And here we have the disparity between Bungie's sense of humor and the lore. Again.
modest marsh
Show me a marine playing with a plushy on the front lines lol
versed helm
Your views on grunts are kinda messed up ngl
modest marsh
Okay, it’s not specific to the games either?
versed helm
Open your mind a little
modest marsh
Do comics not count?
Characters in halo are often characterized in a whimsical manner
That’s fine
carmine sleet
The time between being a Grunt child and a Grunt adult is different to humans. Plus, you have to take into account their culture and the fact that you can indeed find adults playing with toys, normally with their own children but still
modest marsh
Dude you aren’t gonna tell me an AA gunner is gonna be playing with a freaking doll
versed helm
The grunt wasn't playing with it
versed helm
The jackal was holding it over him
gaunt karma
there's a difference between humans and grunts though
in that if a human is in the military
modest marsh
I’m not denying that
gaunt karma
they've trained to be there and they would behave as they believed to behave
whereas grunts don't have that, they can just act how they want as long as they follow orders
modest marsh
In fact I’m saying Grunts are different from humans, therefore they should be held to a different standard
versed helm
Children is not that standard.
modest marsh
They’re characterized as childish in the majority of their appearances
gaunt karma
childish doesn't mean that they are children though, however :p
modest marsh
That’s a pointless distinction in the grand scheme of things
Just read the report from HW2’s Phoenix Logs
versed helm
Just read The Flood
modest marsh
He sounds like a 3rd grader
versed helm
Or Contact Harvest
modest marsh
officer
gaunt karma
it's a fine distinction in the scheme of I want to know all little details :p
versed helm
Grunts in The Flood are frequently portrayed as vicious, organized and dangerous.
They are a physical threat, they know their job, and they have powerful weapons.
modest marsh
They can fight, that doesn’t mean they aren’t behaviorally similar to children
versed helm
Your assertion was far too uniform and doesn't cater to their exact traits.
versed helm
I ain't gonna argue semantics so you come off as having made a bad point, tho.
I ain't that kinda guy.
modest marsh
Just because you can be a good soldier does not mean they are capable of making responsible long term decisions for the betterment of its species, which by the way I do think they can achieve down the line on their own
But as the Covenant found them, that wasn’t going to happen
And as they existed with the Covenant, that still wasn’t going to happen
versed helm
"Functionally children".
I feel as if your intent has changed.
Maybe I am that kinda guy after all.
modest marsh
Am I crazy to think that a species that is heavily characterized as having a desire to feed from a “food nipple” is childish?
versed helm
Close-minded, perhaps.
And undiscerning.
But can we at least agree calling them "functionally children" is generally a meaningless statement in the scheme of your point?
modest marsh
Okay
versed helm
And a bit of a provocative one?
modest marsh
“They have childlike tendencies in their decision making processes and general temperament.”
versed helm
Halopedia?
versed helm
I would say "they demonstrate some behaviours that could be seen as childlike by human standards, particularly when bored or in stressful situations".
trim pond
The forklift has the armor plating that the ladies like
modest marsh
Whether or not they’re viewed as immature by human standards or not, those behaviors are harmful to their species
modest marsh
How they handle those problems is
versed helm
Poorly considered.
modest marsh
That’s likely a more precise way of putting it
versed helm
Lack of foresight, impulse-driven
modest marsh
Yes
versed helm
Though obviously the actual events would have been far more convoluted, complex and difficult than the brief recounts we've gotten would make them seem.
stoic hamlet
I’d say being childlike but also highly organized and deadly aren’t things that can’t go together, I mean, just look at the Gammas.
One can be childlike but still smart and deadly
trim pond
Explain
versed helm
Aside from being children
trim pond
Wait, Gammas?
versed helm
They're pretty professional
stoic hamlet
Of course! 😃
If you want a non halo example look at characters like Ellie from the Last of Us.
versed helm
Gamma-company Spartan IIIs btw
stoic hamlet
Yis
trim pond
Oh ok
versed helm
Halopedia em
trim pond
I’m brain dead right now from late night custom games on Reach
modest marsh
The gammas present an interesting dichotomy
They definitely present themselves as goal oriented professionals who can take care of themselves without issue
But these fall to the fact they have been intensely trained in certain areas
stoic hamlet
I’ll use Ellie as my example, as using the Gammas, well, I’ve used them enough, but I can use them if I need to.
For those not aware, The Last of Us is a PS exclusive where one of the main characters is a teenager named Ellie. It’s set in a post apocalyptic US.
Because of the downfall of society Ellie hasn’t had the opportunity to experience many things, for example, she often looks at the world with childlike naïveté, despite the terrible conditions around her. She expresses wonderment at seeing fireflies in one moment, then brutally kills a man with a machete in the next.
Neither of these two scenes go against the other, or clash.
The Gammas and the grunts are similar.
modest marsh
While still being so young, I’d imagine they are largely stunted in others
Experiences are a big thing
stoic hamlet
Well, we know they (Gammas) don’t really have a general education. So they might not know the arts, or history.
modest marsh
Really?
stoic hamlet
Or even social cues, concepts of modesty or privacy, etc
Regarding the Gammas education? Yeah. They were trained only in military applications
Granted military application means at least basic English, likely highly advanced sciences and math. But English or general language, history, art, culture? Not likely to have been taught. Same for social skills and the like
modest marsh
No I was referring to a specific type of education they would’ve likely missed
But the word filter doesn’t like it
stoic hamlet
Oh, I get you
Likely they’d not have that, yeah. They might have anatomy knowledge but not, that.
Assuming that’s what you meant
modest marsh
Yes
Especially considering the fact that reproduction is unethical for them to take part in in the first place
modest marsh
The mutations they have are implied to be inheritable
Well not so much implied as it is basically thrown out the window by Halsey
Glasslands
Idk, maybe she was wrong
stoic hamlet
Well, there’s only one instance of it discussed, in Onyx, Halsey questions with Mendez I think, but he doesn’t say either way I don’t think
Well, it’s brought up in Glasslands, But they’re in Onyx at the time.
modest marsh
I mean it’s a genetic mutation that drastically changes how their brain chemistry works
stoic hamlet
Yes.
modest marsh
That’s going to be transferred in the procreation process
stoic hamlet
Arguably any III could have an augmented child. The Gammas just have a risk with it.
As they all received chemical enhancements.
Whether a child would survive is another question entirely
modest marsh
“Augmented child” is a bizarre thing to think about
stoic hamlet
But then none of them knows how to, nor would they look it up, I don’t think, so.....
keen blaze
sick things
stoic hamlet
Hmm?
keen blaze
?help
versed helm
You know when the Spartans and the Marines do they ever use call signs
green acorn
Is there anything on what happened to Ben Giraud in midnight facility? Also are there any drawings of midnight facility you can link me to?
remote spruce
Unknown on his status.
tropic oriole
Well yes but actually no
They have a waste disposal system that turns their urine into drinking water and their poop...well that one is still a mystery. It is believed that because of how a Spartan's body is designed they are able to extract more nutrients from food than we can making a minimal amount of waste. Or they eat bars of pure nutrients.
stoic hamlet
Well anyone in MJOLNIR is catherized.
And it makes sense considering their missions being often long term
tropic oriole
Yes
charred flower
versed helm
@charred flower If they are to introduce a new species, what would you do to make them stand out and look unique?
charred flower
Not necessarily make them a fallen-from-grace species. I dont see how adding yet another insanely powerful, huge species can benefit the narrative right now, unless brought in with great writing.
versed helm
precursor precursors
charred flower
A species with noble intentions - wise, providing, protecting, intelligent, and friendly with the Forerunners and Precursors - but somehow add the Flood in. Hmm thats the Forerunners, now that I reconsider and edit this comment in.
one option off the top of my head
and technically, this should be in #483759756566069258 if for that game
versed helm
I came up with a Halo fantasy universe that takes place after forerunners defeated humanity and reset everything
It's similar to Warcraft
During this time, there was a war between orcs and dwarves that lasted for nearly 500 years
stoic hamlet
Dude, please, stop, there are better places to entertain your fanon ideas. This isn’t the channel to do so.
charred flower
talking to True Redemption or battlefield sniper? @stoic hamlet
stoic hamlet
Sniper
charred flower
oh
gilded mason
lol
charred flower
and TR drops text blocks when he wants to start a conversation, though not everytime
gilded mason
Yeah.
charred flower
aint the end of the world. Just explains or wonders a lot, like I do. Gets sort of tiring
tardy topaz
Imagine Halo Infinite is just Skyrim and MC is the dragonborn type stuff going on in here
????
charred flower
hmm
stoic hamlet
sigh
versed helm
I swear, if there's RPG elements and it's a games-as-a-service, I'm gonna lose it.
charred flower
ive summoned him lol
tardy topaz
You're welcome guys
gilded mason
@versed helm
Go to another channel for this.
versed helm
I’ve returned 😄
tardy topaz
Begone
versed helm
You can not banish meee!!!!
tardy topaz
...
last anchor
If I remember right any solid waste from a Spartan user is used to fuel the fusion reactor. That or just...incinerated through the reaction within. There IS a miniature star in there after all
charred flower
lol
strong sage
Fam is teh average unsc marine are well trained soldiers? Since uhhh theres a lot of em and im sure some or most of em are conscripted/drafted sooo i was expecting that some of em are just half bake
last anchor
The UNSC was still a fully volenteer force even in 2552.
So yeah, Id say they're pretty competent. The UNSC won on the ground pretty often
gilded mason
The UNSC won on the ground pretty often
That's a misconception.
It was said in one of the books that they tended to get a lot of ground losses in most ground battles unless Spartans happened to join the fray
last anchor
They could hold their own on the ground, UNSC soliders were either equal too or often better than Covenant troops (because most Covenant troops relied on zeal and tech, as well as "honor", rather than competent leadership)
But in space...the Covenant had the advantage by far
Also numbers game tended to show up too. Just throw Grunts at the problem till it falls over
strong sage
I remembered that the battle of meridian took 2 years in which air force are able to defend the planet against the covies invasion
Though im not sure if any spartans are present there so i’ll just assume that they can hold their ground
But anyways thanks fam now i know that marines are well trained 👍
last anchor
The Covenant also didnt go full force till later on as Battle Born shows us. They went in quiet to retreive a Covenant artifact (either the Luminary that lead to Earth and 05, or something else)
versed helm
TFoR was never retconned
@austere crag
the way the events of Halo: Reach play out actually still tie in with the events of the novel
austere crag
Not completely but parts of it due to Halo Reach's story not aligning with the book
Not entirely
versed helm
yes entirely
especially if you have halsey's journal
no 2 specific events overlap in the novel and game
as for some they play out simultaneously in different locations
Its mw
austere crag
My bad
versed helm
it's a common misconception
stoic hamlet
The way they explained the invasion is still kind of odd but yeah the events are fine, I suppose.
last anchor
Takes a bit of fiddling but I've seen far far worse issues
autumn urchin
were there br rifles in reach?
tropic oriole
Yes they just weren't in the game
autumn urchin
sad
stoic hamlet
Noble served with the Army in Reach, and they weren’t issued/preferred the M392 DMR to the BR55.
tropic oriole
Yeah the Battle rifle was largely unpopular untill the btutes became main foot soldiers and the need for a relativly accurate burst round gun was needed to land multiple head shots
stoic hamlet
Well the Marines widely adopted it
The Army just preferred the older gear, perhaps For reliability reasons
lyric plover
the br sucks
stoic hamlet
In what sense? Gameplay or lore?
lyric plover
Gameplay
stoic hamlet
Well That’s just like, your opinion, man
stoic hamlet
At any rate, this isn’t really the channel to discuss this
lyric plover
and the halo 1 pistol ofc
autumn urchin
imo they should have put both guns and make them slightly different
like dmr is more preccise but has bloom
idk
lilac palm
Well, they took losses on the ground no doubt about it. But without spartans they did stand a fighting chance.
Orbital engagements? That's a different story
earnest salmon
The Army did prefer older tech because they felt it was more reliable and were used to it
For example, they preferred the MA37 over the newer MA5B
The MA5B was unreliable: poor range and jammed constantly
lilac palm
Not to mention it was more of an LMG than an AR.
The MA37 was more rugged. And more Lightweight. To the best extent of what I know
lilac palm
Definitely. I mean the MA5B would be useful for a Spartan. But a hinder to an unaugmentated user.
thank god for the MA5C and MA5D. For the UNSC's sake
stoic hamlet
I don’t think it’d be useful to a Spartan either. More useful to them but not as useful as an MA5K, -5C or -37
lilac palm
In regards to the Ammo. I meant sorry
stoic hamlet
Oh yeah, you’re right there
lilac palm
the 5B needed to be replaced. The 37 was definitely more suited to the designaton of a Rifle
stoic hamlet
It needed to be fine-tuned, I think, not outright replaced
earnest salmon
It's too close range and unreliable for full on assaults
lilac palm
Darn right
earnest salmon
It's too clunky and heavy for lightweight scouts
It's too big for a PDW
I have solutions to all three issues
MA5C/MA5D/MA37
MA37
M7 SMG
stoic hamlet
Which is too clunky? The BR or DMR?
stoic hamlet
Ah
stoic hamlet
Well we know the MA5K is a cut down carbine of the MA5 line
We’ve just never seen it in game
earnest salmon
True
The Sniper Rifle is HUGE and the ammo is crazy expensive
The DMR is like a smaller sniper
stoic hamlet
Well IIRC the ammo isn’t that expensive.
earnest salmon
To be fair the UNSC is super rich so you make a fair point
Still massive
It's like a sniper for scouts
Not big enough to be a hindrance but still retaining a long range ability
stoic hamlet
Well, IIRC the idea of the SRS99 using expensive ammo comes from the quote from Jun in Halo Reach, but I always took the assumption they were special rounds, like how Linda utilizes Martian-made hand loaded rounds
earnest salmon
Tbh I always thought that was just how all sniper rounds work
*thats in reference to Jun
versed helm
Well APFSDS isn't cheap
But if modern militaries can afford to spend millions on bombing strikes that may or may not actually hit anything important at all
The UNSC can pump out expensive ammunition
Especially under full wartime economy.
earnest salmon
true and they have multiple plant
*planets supporting them
new mombasa was extremely wealthy
they were pro UNSC
so that cant hurt lol
inner colonies gang rise up
lilac palm
Take the reach rebels. I mean the Rebel Ideaology is kinda flawed
versed helm
In a universe where the Covenant and no other existential threat to humanity's universe existed, depending on certain bits of context, their motivations might be understandable.
And as far as they knew, prior to 2525, they did live in that universe.
But I see them as immensely greedy and short-sighted.
strong sage
How powerfull are Normfang’s rounds fam?
stoic hamlet
Well they’re just explosive tipped
IIRC
there’s nothing particularly special about them
strong sage
But at the same time armor piercing as well fam?
strong sage
Ahhhh i see so its just loaded with explosive rounds thanks fam ^^
stoic hamlet
Same as the Answer
carmine sleet
In lore, I'd say that the majority of REQ weapons could be loaded with normal ammo, like how it is in the real world
stoic hamlet
They can. They aren’t like, special weapons
They’re basically just regular weapons loaded with different ammo and given a paint job.
carmine sleet
Indeed. The only exceptions would be the plasma/energy-based weapons
stoic hamlet
Yeah
carmine sleet
And maybe the Blood of Suban because that's a modified Carbine to take the needle rounds
stoic hamlet
Mhm
edgy briar
yo
carmine sleet
Honestly, I think for at least the campaign and custom games, they should explore weapon attachments since we know they exist in lore and they could change up how you tackle an encounter
dark schooner
Maybe, but that could fly in the face of the simplicity of the older games
A cool special weapon in my opinion would be the concept art for the Reach DMR, that looked cool
Like the one with a bayonet and a strap
stoic hamlet
The bayonet would be dumb for the DMR though
MA5? Sure
But a DMR? Why would you fix bayonets on that?
Unless yu were desperate
carmine sleet
The main reason you would have a bayonet on a DMR would be to defend yourself in CQC. Like how rifles of the 1700s had them
stoic hamlet
But they didn’t have them
Muskets had them
To defend against cavalry.
Riflemen had short swords
dark schooner
I mean in utility it would be bad, but it would look cool at least
carmine sleet
A musket is a rifle
stoic hamlet
Not true
humble yacht
oh boi
stoic hamlet
Most muskets were smoothbore
carmine sleet
I just did a fact check, I was wrong, my bad
stoic hamlet
Rifles were given to specialist units
All good @carmine sleet
I love that period of warfare so I kinda know a lot.
carmine sleet
I see
stoic hamlet
Some muskets were rifled, but most were smoothbore
dark schooner
The 20th century is kinda a crowded boat to be studying Military/Conflict history but thats where I am
humble yacht
I think that's starting to get too technical as it applies to Halo. I mean, yeah, the term "rifle" came about from adding rifling to barrels, but in terms of Halo I think it's a more ubiquitous term for gun
stoic hamlet
It is
humble yacht
I doubt they were thinking too hard about the mechanisms of the guns as they named them
I mean, Plasma Rifle?
does the plasma bolt have spin?
rhetorical question
stoic hamlet
The Carbine might be a rifle
It fires an actual projectile
I doubt it’s smoothbore
carmine sleet
Can we get a good look at the inside of the barrel of the carbine in any of the Halo games?
humble yacht
It's alien tech. I wouldn't be surprised if they evolved mechanisms entirely separate from human-based weaponry
carmine sleet
Very true
humble yacht
Apparently carbine rounds power themselves after firing until consuming all their mass
so that right there eliminates the need for rifling
stoic hamlet
So they’re self propelled?
stoic hamlet
Gyrojet, or whatever the term is.
humble yacht
Anyways
I said that with the idea in mind that just because bayonets were anti-cavalry tools back in the day, doesn't mean they'd need that function in game
using a bayonet as a general CQC attachment on a Halo gun may not be historically accurate, but functionally and mechanistically it makes sense
stoic hamlet
Oh I know why it would be used, and stuff
I was just correcting the assertion that every rifle had them in the 1700’s
Usually they were smaller and shorter than the muskets
humble yacht
I think there would be better CQC options than a bayonet on your DMR, though
but it's not like it would be a totally useless attachment
feral perch
versed helm
I'd take a bayonet on a rifle over a crowbar
But y'know what I'd definitely take over a bayonet on a rifle?
A modified M90 with fully-automatic fire and an external drum mag that fires like the shotgun in Fireteam Raven
Make it happen 343
versed helm
True.
I've got some very pressing questions about MA5s and their functionality
The Spartan Field Manual gave some very nice information regarding the nature of targeting reticles in the context of MJOLNIR
But I want to know to what extent "smart scope" systems and those like them factor in for regular infantry
And what exactly the distinction is between a "predicted weapon impact point" - or standard reticle - and a projection sight.
I have a slight suspicion that "predicted weapon impact points" are a function of MJOLNIR - or VISR in a general sense - and regular infantry using an MA5 would only have access to the projection sight.
I'm guessing "predicted weapon impact points" are a function of predictive algorithms which scan a user's field of vision in relation to the weapon's electronic presence to determine the placement of the reticle, and "projection sights" are a result of sophisticated weapon-mounted sensor suites that create an accurized reticle that is likely only triggered when a firing position is taken.
That means two possibilities regarding MA5s and projection sights - that projection sights have been a feature of MA5 models well prior to the MA5D in Halo 5, or regular UNSC infantry have long had "predicted weapon impact points" displayed on their HUD gear too.
Alternate possibility - "predicted weapon impact points" and projection sights are one and the same, and they are facilitated by a wide array of data feeds from both weapon and user-based systems. For example, UNSC HUD software could draw on corroborated input from smart-linked optics, weapon-mounted sensors and the user's visual input to calculate a highly reticle, or in the case of weapons that have no sensors or optics, just make an estimate based on only what the user sees in relation to where the weapon is being held.
In that case, in Halo 5's gameplay, zooming in with a projection sight is simply zooming in the reticle (which is the projection sight).
Fascinating topic to think about.
Especially when visualizing combat from the perspective of an ordinary UNSC soldier.
autumn urchin
wasnt the scope in the magnum in ce just a bug that was added as a feature
versed helm
no that was creepers in minecraft
versed helm
The model has a pretty obvious camera optic on it.
tropic oriole
Yeah......
charred flower
In the closing pages of Silent Storm
green acorn
@humble yacht consider the flood with the need for bayonets.
charred flower
Finished Silent Storm tonight. 23 books read in the lore
earnest salmon
Only read TFOR
charred flower
Fall of Reach is a Halo classic. Hugely important
versed helm
Master Chief vs General Grievous, who wins?
This would be playing in the background during the fight
https://youtu.be/u6XxIWkLLys
@versed helm please stop trying to compare, we've been kinda slack about it but it's become a general consensus that it's not really appropriate for this channel and is somewhat annoying.
the best route would be to form a thesis or fanfiction on it and pop it in #471727324895641651 as someone recommended
but this is a channel for the discussion of Halo lore specifically
and not so much speculation on things that are relatively incomparable
autumn urchin
can spartans swim?
gaunt karma
if they aren't in Mjolnir, yes
if they're in Mjolnir, they'd just sink to the bottom because of the armor's weight
upper star
It is possible that Spartans can float in armour. Modern armour has bladders which can keep a person afloat for a period of time, it isn't impossible to think that 500+ years in the future this isn't a possibility.
The better question is would they want to and my answer would be no. As they can seal the suit and have a rather large amount of air available. A fireteam can be dropped a few miles off a coast or inserted and hoof the rest underwater. Emerging like monsters from the deep
gaunt karma
would need floats that can hold up to 1 ton
upper star
Not impossible even by modern standards
versed helm
so atriox must be crazy strong if he could stop three 1k lbs spartans
with like 0 effort
stoic hamlet
Well he mainly had his hammer/his enhanced arm
gaunt karma
also, brutes are strong
just generally strong
they weigh like half a ton themselves
tropic oriole
But theiy can only lift about 2500 pounds
Yes enough to lift a spartan but with great effort
gaunt karma
that would be enough to lift a Spartan, yes
tropic oriole
But once again that's with both arms
gaunt karma
it would change depending on the brute
tropic oriole
I'm talking about the hammer brutes from halo 3. The basic foot soldier brute is not to strong only lifing around 1000 lbs average
(Per arm sorry)
the actual average for total lifted weight for the brutes is around 2500 lbs total
Also I want to point out that elites aren't super strong. Yes they are far stronger than a human but not a spartan.....unless it's a elite obssessed with fitness.
gaunt karma
elites are equal with a spartan
stoic hamlet
Ehh, kinda and not
They apparently can’t track them speed wise.
Which generally gives the Spartan the edge
tropic oriole
Yes, Spartans have the speed advantage ten times over. (unless it's a spartan III then they are almost perfectly equal)
stoic hamlet
Nope, they’re faster as well
tropic oriole
Not to the extent that the IIs are
stoic hamlet
Yes they are. If they both have MJOLNIR they’re equal in speed and strength.
Or if they’re both unarmoured
tropic oriole
Not true
stoic hamlet
Yes, it is true.
tropic oriole
the IIs were in general better while the IIIs were not as good
stoic hamlet
There’s no information to state S-III’s are weaker than S-II’s
tropic oriole
There is tons of information
stoic hamlet
Source it
humble yacht
Augmentation-wise, spartanIII and Spartan II programs were practically identical
tropic oriole
Not even
humble yacht
Spartan 3s lacked the advanced armor and training of 2s
stoic hamlet
Apologies for the aggression, but I’ve had this convo like, six times in the past week
It’s getting old
They had improved training
tropic oriole
the IIIs had many more Phycological issues and drugs to improe thier performance that made them unstable
stoic hamlet
Only the Gammas, and that increased their strength and durability
tropic oriole
The Betas did something as well didn't they?
It's been a year since I've been over this topic
tropic oriole
I have
But the lists don't give specific numbers
which leads to bull** arguaments like this
(Sorry I can't spell)
stoic hamlet
We have no instances of S-III’s being weaker than S-II’s. In all things they’re described or implied to be “near equal” but the only thing holding back an S-III is experience.
tropic oriole
Hold up
stoic hamlet
We have direct quotes from Ghosts of Onyx that state the augmentations did exactly the same things.
humble yacht
Both S3s and S2s get 300% increase to resction time
tropic oriole
But are the numbers the same?
stoic hamlet
Yes
humble yacht
Halopedia is your friend
stoic hamlet
Ghosts of Onyx states the augmentations are equal. But no numbers are given IIRC
humble yacht
The only difference they ever state is that S3 augs are less invasive and safer
stoic hamlet
They can augment more children with 100% success without them being super perfect genetically
humble yacht
I think S3 kids still had unique genetics, it’s just that they could be augmented at older ages and the success rate had become 100%
stoic hamlet
Younger ages
But yeah they were still screened
They were unique, just not as unique
humble yacht
Spartan 3s were older than 2s in general when augmented
stoic hamlet
Compared to the II’s 14
upper star
IIIs had a wider recruitment net, but could have been between as young as four or as old as 14
The main difference between them and the IIs was Mjilnor for Halsey Spartans and SPI for the IIIs
And the enhanced augmentation on their frontal lobe which made them very aggressive in combat or stressful situations which resulted in them fighting for longer dispute injuries
I can remember the IIIs name but in Ghost of Onyx he basically had a quarter of his chest cavity blown off and still fought and got through the portal only succumbing to his wounds after the battle was over and his body realised it needs the 25% of lung capacity
Lastly the major difference between them was how they were employed. Spartan IIs were used as high teir assets to engage the enemy, win or cause as much damage as possible then be extracted for a next task. IIIs were force multipliers and a delaying action. Whether it was a suicide companies or headhunters
remote spruce
Dante
strong sage
Sorry if im uhhhhhh making a comparison or vs here fam but uhh im just curious between Mjolnir Armor and the Section 8 of the USIF game powered armor which one of these are more advanced and stronger?
Sorry for the uhh vs/irrelevant question fam
upper star
Their sole purpose was to buy the UNSC time and have the Covenant redeploy assets to guard the rear so less guns on the front.
@remote spruce thanks
@strong sage I would say Mjilnor.
gaunt karma
Mjolnir
upper star
Reason being you have to be augmented to use it where as the Section 8 armour enhances a trained user ability
Also given when that game was released it was just to one up Mjolnir. Many of those abilities are in gen teo now
Jet packs/maneuvering thrusters. Different variations. Integrated sights
Also halo has been fleshed out alot more now, so we know mjolnir is as expensive as a small starship, all forms are AI compatible, they use various miniaturized technologies etc.
strong sage
Ahhhhh thanks for the clarification thanks famm ^^ and owh aside for their armor is advanced but i assume their military training and status is the same as odst don’t ya agree?
upper star
@strong sage for who? Is section 8 like ODDTs?
strong sage
Yeah i meant that sorry
upper star
Ok and yeah
strong sage
Sorry for the uhhh misinterpretation fam xD
upper star
Spartans regardless of generation have to relearn how to use their bodies for basic tasks, then get taught how to be Spartans without the armour, then get those skills multiplied by an order of magnitude when the get Mjolnir
ODST troopers are good soldiers refined into even better ones, like going from regular military to SF. Section 8 only difference is that they get full power armour where as ODST get a full suit with a few more/better bells and whistles than what standard troops get
Hope that answers your question fam
strong sage
Thattt is well explained fam thank you very much xd i’ve been reading a lot of debates and mjolnir comparisons so i tend to get curious thats why i asked the question here 😄 anyways once again thanks fam ^~^
upper star
@strong sage👍
autumn urchin
How many % of unsc forces were composed by odst?
stoic hamlet
Probably not a lot relative to the entire UNSCDF
They’re a volunteer force after all in only one branch
upper star
I would say no more than 5%
Spartans would be no more than 2%
If I had to guess, taking in training, post war situations, population etc
@stoic hamlet thought the ODST recruited from all branches of the UNSC?
stoic hamlet
But they’re part of the marines
last anchor
Yeah, but Gage was a CAA trooper and they let him in
upper star
@stoic hamlet meh...the SBS are part of the royal marines commandos but any other branch can apply to join them
remote spruce
Coast Guard ODST when, we need aquatic marines
remote spruce
UNSC Jellyfish, just think about it : p
upper star
I cant ha
Maybe they would control the automated naval ships we see, though that is stillpsrt of the navy
Maybe crew corvettes in orbit over planets and be security
I ain't expecting to read some mad story about this badass Coast Guard person from the war...no...I cant see it
last anchor
The UNSC does have a wet navy
And they did mention having an orbital guard life-rescue kind of thing at one point or another
upper star
@last anchor yeah I know about the wet navy, that what I am suggesting maybe they assorted in command and control
Assisted
And the orbit rescue makes sense
last anchor
Slipspace accidents happen. Who's gonna tow your ship in if you get stuck way out of range?
stoic hamlet
Real mature :p
versed helm
ok uh one question shouldnt the unsc be able to develope hovering vehichles due to them having elites helping them develope stuff
stoic hamlet
They kind of already do. VTOLs
gaunt karma
I'm thinking of a different universe
stoic hamlet
Mass Effect?
gaunt karma
yeah
stoic hamlet
Also no hover cars there
gaunt karma
they do have hover cars :o
gaunt karma
I could've sworn there were floating cars in RWBY
well, at the very least, there's a hoverboard
so
stoic hamlet
Yeah but I’m guessing that’s custom made
I could see military using hover cars and stuff
Maybe
But that’s it
upper star
The closest hover vehicle we see the UNSC use is the Kestrel.
last anchor
Wheels work. So to tracks. The UNSC doesn't need no fancy floating vehicles
Besides if they do, they can always just seal a Ghost from the Covies.
vague scroll
And the elites aren’t sharing technology with humanity or vice versa. They’re in a Cold War before the The Created showed up. @versed helm
carmine sleet
Elites have been sharing tech, same with humans. A great example is that the H5 Fuel Rod was made by both humans and Elites
Then there's also the Needle Hog
vague scroll
That’s not the UNSC or SOS, the Type-58 is a creation by Venezia, a self-run colony that is home to pirates and terrorists.
It’s a pirate haven, that’s not the same as direct technology trade.
I take it back, yeah, they’re trading and communicating as seen with military and science ventures like the ANVIL station from Halo Online that is still canon as explained by The Spartan Field Manual and Paxapolis on Trevelyan.
carmine sleet
Needle Hog was specifically made for joint UNSC-SOS taskforces
gilded mason
Yep
vague scroll
I was more referring to the ongoing policy of non-involvement that started with the Blooding Years and continued into Halo 5.
There was a Cold War type mindset, given ONI’s interest to destabilize and make plans to eliminate the Elite food supply.
last anchor
Thats ONI for you
Also the UNSC has more than just the Needle Hog, theres also the Vespin Warthog, and all the hybrid sights
versed helm
Can we drive goblins at all
Or only grunts
Also why don’t we ever fight humans
That would be kinda cool
Fighting insourectionists
vague scroll
Fighting humans would likely push Halo back into the mature rating but the primary reason that fighting humans has come down to the concept that fighting humans on a strictly game design stand point is that it’s not fun.
Due to the hit scan nature of human weapons, the humans weapons are like laser guns in the hands of enemies or something along those lines.
And no, we can’t drive goblins as they are a purely designed mech for unggoy and the UNSC hasn’t exactly got working models sitting around
gilded mason
Then again, don't the common Promethean weapons home-in on you?
humble yacht
in H5 they do
last anchor
Adaptation
vague scroll
I think it’s more on the grounds that the human AI will laser in on targets before taking a shot, long before they pull the trigger, kind of aimbot
humble yacht
Every AI enemy is a bit of an aimbot
gilded mason
Though I imagine 343 could make adjustments to the AI if they ever felt like making humans actual campaign enemies.
vague scroll
I’d imagine so, I think that original argument about the enemy humans was dated back to Bungie’s game philosophy, evidently things have changed
last anchor
I mean you fight that NMPD guy in Data Hive
vague scroll
You also fight marine AI in halo 5 war zone
last anchor
True
versed helm
We also fight the crazy marine in the level where me meet the flood
modest marsh
you're not supposed to fight him
game design wise, he just exists to introduce the player to hitscan enemies
Chief in The Flood takes his magnum away, but i think most players just ignore him
he's not a threat as his aim is usually pretty bad
versed helm
I was almost dead and I went afk for a sec
And he killed me
So next time I ended him with a shotgun
last anchor
I like it.
Also; all of the recent Halo novels have been amazing and I cant wait for more
versed helm
Agreed.
hardy goblet
Currently reading "Retribution", and I was wondering : does it happen during 4 or after ?
vivid dust
before?
hardy goblet
Ah yeah
You're right
Just remembered the archeon Ancilla told that she just had a signal from requiem
But nothing more from where I am
Thanks
versed helm
@versed helm I was freaking seven when I first played ce cut me some slack
spice plinth
When I was 7 I was 7
versed helm
Bruh me too
autumn urchin
why do spartans in halo wars have shields if the technology hadnt been researched yet
unique rune
Red Team was issued prototype energy shield units, supposedly.
green acorn
Are there still covenant remnants even after the swords retook sanghelios?
humble yacht
Yep
limpid meadow
There are, and there likely will be for decades in-universe. Jul's Covenant was the biggest threat and represented the largest remnant of the old Covenant, so the Covenant is, in essence, defeated. However, there will always be another Warlord claiming to lead the Covenant out there.
stoic hamlet
and other groups that follow in their foot steps, Keepers of the One Freedom, for example
also hey @limpid meadow haven't seen you here before!
last anchor
Glorious madness.
limpid meadow
Been busy 😛
autumn urchin
who would win in arm wresting a jackal or a marine
gilded mason
Jackal.
lilac palm
Marine
It is stated that Humans are physically stronger
TBF The Jackal has claws
And its to the best extent of my knowledge
gilded mason
Been trying to find a source to see if I was incorrect after I said that, but couldn't find anything to dispute it, do you remember where ya read that?
lilac palm
I believe the Halo CE guide
and also the fact that they were mainly used as Scouts, Snipers and Assassins
And they have a shield gauntlet
gilded mason
and also the fact that they were mainly used as Scouts, Snipers and Assassins
That wouldn't really mean much.
gilded mason
I believe the Halo CE guide
The instruction manual, or something else?
gilded mason
Here's what the manual had to say, just as a future reference:
With superior senses of sight, hearing and smell, Jackals serve as scouts and assassins for the Covenant forces. They use plasma pistols and carry a strong energy shield to compensate for their physical weakness; a well-positioned Jackal can hold his own against several Marines, though grenades are effective against them. They stand approximately 5’ 8” tall.```pesky shields
versed helm
"They also reflexively spazz out and wave their shields around randomly when struck in the hand or weapon by incoming fire, allowing for an easy opening which a cigar-chompin' UNSC jarhead can utilize for some remote cranial surgery"
I should've written the CE manual 😛
limpid meadow
While Jackals are physically weak, it's important to keep in mind that the CE manual is old and likely somewhat outdated. For example, the 5' 8" height has long-since been retconned, with Jackals on the short end being around 6' 2"
gilded mason
CE manual is old and likely somewhat outdated.
Yeah, I'd rather something a bit more up to date was able to clarify things definitively.
lilac palm
Same. No hard feelings. Always nice to be with a debate from a fellow lorist
gilded mason
Yup.
lilac palm
Nice to meet you mate
gilded mason
Same.
limpid meadow
As for the original question: I think it would depend on the Kig-Yar type.
limpid meadow
Like, the Ib'ieshan Kig-Yar from Halo 4/5 can hit back pretty hard, and that's against a Spartan
lilac palm
Remember that's difficulty wise.
limpid meadow
Even on low difficulties they can hit back hard
limpid meadow
I'm just saying that determining who would win an arm-wrestling match might be hard to determine
limpid meadow
Though I think I'd probably give it to a marine
lilac palm
same. Jackals were given the roles that involve less direct combat.
They had a shield in the front. That was stronger than the harness used by the sanghelili
or away from all the fighting with a long range rifle such as a Particle Beam Rifle
versed helm
So the storm rifle is just a fancy plasma rifle right
limpid meadow
Basically, yeah
gilded mason
Around and about.
glossy grail
idk. Maybe the Elites killed them all
gilded mason
Some are in one faction, some in another.
glossy grail
The latest I played was Halo 4
versed helm
Also why are there elites in the banished
I thought brutes and elites hate each other
gilded mason
Ain't universal
carmine sleet
Atriox doesn't really care what species his forces are, so long as they fight for his cause
gilded mason
Some hate them, some would be indifferent, and some might enjoy their company.
carmine sleet
Well, what I said is a very basic way of putting it anyway
versed helm
I wonder how brute tastes
unique rune
Not to mention that ‘Volir and his crew were hired by Atriox as mercenaries, essentially...
gilded mason
Yeah. I feel pretty sorry for Volir's crew though.
modest marsh
@lilac palm have you read Battle Born?
lilac palm
I know what happens. But I cant say I have.
modest marsh
A jackal attacks two older teens who are in a car and dents the roof/shatters the windshield quite easily, then manhandles one of them with like no resistance whatsoever
modest marsh
He mangles her leg just by grabbing it
lilac palm
They are kids
modest marsh
They’re like 17-18
gilded mason
Apparently 18 years old.
lilac palm
not soliders
stoic hamlet
it's still a great showing of what a Jackal can do
versed helm
Shid
lilac palm
Its an arm wrestle between a Marine and a Jackal
modest marsh
In Halo 4 a jackal tackles one of the guards on Ivanov Station and snaps his neck in one movement
lilac palm
Just about to mention it
modest marsh
That would suggest that they are massively stronger, physically
lilac palm
Definitely not massively stronger.
But remember. Its an arm wrestle
Jackals dont have the element of suprise
modest marsh
I don’t understand
lilac palm
They have an arm
modest marsh
A person is not physically strong enough to just tackle another person and then twist their neck around
stoic hamlet
they're still much stronger
modest marsh
They also weigh more than the average person
lilac palm
Alright. I have to give it to you. I stand corrected. Good debate. No hard feelings
modest marsh
I’m not upset dude don’t worry