Hey so I was replaying Long Night of Solace on Reach yesterday and during the sabre part I noticed the sabre had shields. But I remembered that in Warfleet it said the only the broadsword had shields so what’s up here?
#lore-and-universe
tiny yarrow
versed helm
Warfleet doesn't say that only the Broadsword had shields.
last anchor
Those are experimental Saber's too I think.
The original Broadsword didnt have shields but the latter E model did
Covenant tech is useful stuff
green acorn
In the infinite trailer, thats zeta right?
remote spruce
most likely
west jackal
So how would the Prophet of Truth fire all the rings if he didn't have Johnson or any other human?
warped gust
He wouldn't.
Unless the forerunners knew in advanced "welp humans are gonna die sometime after we let them lose let's make it so that the prophets can fire the rings again"
hexed stratus
I think the initial halo writers didn't really put a lot of thought into actual personnel numbers
and the 39 billion population statistic is realistic I suppose but also complicates the UNSC strength because as old mate said before during wartime a united humanity should be fielding at least 1 billion military personnel but that's absurdly large
you'd imagine at LEAST 50 million defending Earth in 2552 then. I read a CAS-Class has 10 000 warriors. That means the Covenant would have had to have sent the strength of about 500 CAS-Class Carriers (say 100 CAS-Class and thousands of CCS-Class) to fight the UNSC on parity. That many Covenant warships would destroy Earth in hours, but obviously that didn't happen, so how does any of it make sense????
runic furnace
Because if you are large, you can't send too big portion of army sonewhere else as that thinbers defences elsewhere and open way to get attacked by some other enemy. And 1 billion military personnel isn't that large
hexed stratus
yeah I get that, but Earth was supposedly the last stronghold, right? so it makes sense that a LOT of the UNSC would be stationed there by October 2552
runic furnace
When covenant first arrived to Earth, they didn't even know this was the place where humans are from
No need to over defend places that is still far from biggest threats
But at the time started the covenant civil war, meaning covenant lost lot of power, and had to focus on threats in their home. Also flood came to cause even more problems
hexed stratus
Fair
I suppose we never actually see how many Covenant ships are across all the Earth by the time of Halo 3
it could just be as many as I think
runic furnace
Sangheili's were better at space fleet battles than brutes, so covenant fleet probably was smaller by then
Fleet of retribution destroyed a lot of covenant ship at high charity and at ark
fair hazel
The context of billions of death seems to indicate its talking about unsc military casualties.
Seems to.
The context of population might indicate its talking about number of children
versed helm
In Palace Hotel, the Evolutions vol 2 short story, Cortana seems to say that a total of 23 billion UNSC personnel have lost their lives in the conflict.
But she could also be talking civilian-inclusive. The line is a little unclear - she's ordering a sergeant to leave her dead troops behind "(like the) 23 billion others that proceeded them".
Both scenarios could be concievable, depending on the exact factors surrounding humanity's population growth over the 500 years to come.
I don't know if we've ever known of a UNSC colony with a population of a billion or more. Typically it lies is the vicinity of a few hundred million.
versed helm
Halopedia says 703 mil
If it's 23 billion humans that died, it roughly lines up with the casualties you'd expect from over half the UNSC's approximately 400 colonies getting smashed.
feral perch
Hmm.
versed helm
If it's 23 billion servicemen, there are presumably population centres much higher in density than Reach (which seems likely from what we see of it in the game) and the Covenant conflict is far larger scale than was possible to show from Chief's perspective.
The UNSC probably has a ridiculously high serving percentage of the population compared to nations in historical conflicts because of automated fabrication and complete gender neautrality.
You could probably model how many humans were UNSC personnel by taking the serving percentage of a heavily naval nation in WW2 that was losing for a period - probably the British - add a huge portion of factory workers to it, then add another half the sum altogether for extra women. I can't find exact figures, but presumably we're looking at somewhere between 0.5 and 5% serving during the insurrection and like 20-30% during the Covenant war.
Which would make the total human population of 2525 approaching 100 billion.
Then again, maybe the UNSC wouldn't mass-recruit unless they had the naval assets to support their new troops, which would take time. Army and Air Force might be able to get away with mass expansion, but Marines and Navy personnel are pointless without ships.
Plus, Palace Hotel may not even be entirely canon.
It's a fustercluck best not thought about until we get explicit lore.
We just don't have all the variables.
feral perch
I wonder if the women are altered in some way to be equal physically to men in the military, or if the standards are more lenient for women as opposed to men, as it is in our military today.
Everyone gets a neural tag implanted in the base of their skull, right? If they can do that, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch.
And of course the Spartans, though that's a special case.
Am I the only one who misses the time when Spartans were indistinguishable from one another, except when they spoke?
The Babysitter was a great example of this
modest marsh
Only officers get neural implants
The implants received by infantry personnel are seemingly just microcomputers that track things like biometric data, location, ID, etc
As far as the Halo universe is concerned, I think it’s just a fictional allowance many other settings make
feral perch
I see.
modest marsh
Fallout for instance has male-female equality, there is seemingly no physical advantage or disadvantage between either gender
modest marsh
I have no clue
I feel like most UNSC are volunteers, or at least it certainly feels that way
feral perch
Do memes still exist?
modest marsh
glassed planets have bad records
It would be hilarious if that became an in-universe gag
versed helm
Every UNSC soldier gets a neural chip.
At minimim, a "monkey model" one with IFF capabilties. Also, presumably features to facilitate weapon smart-linking, data recovery, and vehicle operation.
See Glasslands.
lucid jackal
can i get a wort of the day
versed helm
are there any non augmented people that use shields?
Plus, I personally believe that UNSC personnel - navy and marines at least - would have to undergo sone form of grav-conditioning.
So they can effectively operate on worlds with higher G's than Earth. That would probably involve getting dumped on a high-G world, drugged up so you can stay on your feet, and trained raw.
Doesn't matter who you are - man, woman, big, small - you come out of that, you'll have the endurance and muscle density to be an infantryman or special operator.
And not that we've seen, @versed helm, but it's certainly possible.
Working theory - personal shields require high energy sources, such as the micro fusion-reactors in MJOLNIR.
i always assumed since the smaller members of the covenant can have shields that maybe some odsts and marines have them depending on their rank/field
feral perch
Only in a post-Covenant universe, methinks.
The Covenant were far more technologically advanced than the UNSC
versed helm
The UNSC wouldn't hand equipment like shields out based on rank - they'd hand it out based on need.
The thing about the Covenant is that, in their military structure, rank equates to need. Higher ranked soldiers act as heavy weapons operators and assault troops.
carmine sleet
They'd also take things like performance into account as well for non-augmented personnel
versed helm
In human militaries, dangerous jobs are handed out to highly trained but lower-ranked troops so as not to disrupt the chain of command and control.
So you'd probably see soldiers with aggressive combat roles like heavy weapon operators and grenadiers getting shields.
But those soldiers aren't also unit leaders or officers.
Another difference between equipment distribution in the UNSC and Covenant is manufacture. While UNSC gear is obviously mass-produced to a sufficiently high standard, a lot of Covenant gear is made by individual professional artisans.
That's probably why higher-ranked elites have more powerful shields - they can probably afford better.
The Covenant military has a lot of similarities with feudal military structure. Almost certainly because of the influence of the Sangheili - it wouldn't surprise me if their enlistment worked in a levy system similar to that of Feudal Europe or Japan. We already know Jackals basically fight in mercenary units.
Officers in the Covenant military might play a similar role in such a structure to knights or samurai. And like knights or samurai, the higher their rank, the better their pay, the better equipment they can afford. And like knights or samurai, individuals with better armour are expected to do more dangerous jobs - replace mixing it up on a castle wall in a siege or riding in a cavalry charge with breaching a structure or firing a plasma cannon.
Obviously lower-ranked troops would get handed out mass-produced stuff. And that mass-produced stuff would probably be mass-produced by sweatshops of low-skill labourers, and their mass-produced gear would be of a relative standard far below what a UNSC soldier could expect.
isn’t almost all of the unsc’s production automated
A lot of it is handled by automated foundries and 3D printers on UNSC carriers and support ships.
As we see in Halo Wars 2's phoenix logs and various bits of lore.
Obviously bigger stuff like components for ships needs factories, but those would be automated too.
And because of that automation, when a UNSC soldiers picks up an MA5, he knows that it'll function perfectly. An unggoy conscript, though, might not know that for sure about his plasma pistol.
last anchor
Misrah Armories is a thing too. See: Halo Landfall and its gigantic automated production lines
Most Covenant gear is spin-formed in assembly vats tho
So
versed helm
That's interesting - I hadn't known that. Still, that just shows the Covenant's method of mass-production.
It's pretty obvious that some pieces of Covenant gear are the product of masterful workmanship from high-end assembly forges, with individual weapons or patterns earning fearsome reputations. Various Halo 5 REQ weapon descriptions make that pretty clear. Plus, there are apparently sought-out master armourers in Sangheili society such as the one who designed Helioskrill armour, so what I was saying about energy shields holds up.
"So", what then?
@last anchor
last anchor
The ones that tend to be hand made seem to come mostly from Sangheilios or their artisan-armories so thats no real s urprise
Most Covenant ordinance, originally, came from High Charity's gigantic assembly vats. Much of that weaponry is still floating around somewhere, probably on Venezia. And since a plasma weapon needs no ammunition, just a plug to feed power into it, and nearly no maintence, a weapon can probably last for centuries
So, its probably not as bad quality as you may think
As for the far far earlier comment about shields, power is the big issue
Remember, a Sangheili is taller even than a Spartan II most of the time. They have a LOT of space in their suits to get stuff in. Humans, by comparison, not so much.
Spartans manage but the suit is complex, huge, and power hungry. Theres no way a normal grunt soldier could handle teh battery pack for a shield
At least, not yet
Give htem access to Forerunner batteries and a few years, and we might see UNSC troopers with shields
versed helm
Just to clarify, I wasn't necessarily trying to say that bad gear would be a widespread issue for the Covenant.
I was just more saying, the difference between a plasma rifle hefted by a grunt major and a plasma rifle carried as a sidearm by an elite ultra might be akin to the difference between, say, a peasant-soldier's falchion and a knight's longsword.
They both get the job done, but one was pumped out by a large assembly forge without much care and the other was made by someone who's exceptional at their craft.
And I do agree with what you say about power being the limiting factor for personal energy shields - as I said before, it's very telling that the only model of UNSC battle armour to ever be equipped with energy shielding is the one that just so happens to integrate a miniaturized fusion reactor.
But I don't think that's so much of a consideration for the Covenant - after all, they've got jackals using energy gauntlets, and a widespread prevalence of weapons capable of generating both superheated plasma and a lingering containment field for it. The Covenant evidently have batteries and reactors on lock.
last anchor
That is fair
Also, human batteries can power Covenant equipmetn with the right adapter
The whole "we dont know how to charge them" thing went out the window after 2553
There must be something else...
My guess is that the Covenant power most of their stuff using Forerunner based tech, which provides far more power than anything the UNSC has on hand
versed helm
Well, firstly, I'd just like to say this - in my mind, the most plausible explanation for the difference between an elite minor's energy shields and a zealot's energy shields lies in the subtle differences between gear of varying craftsmanship, not in more overt and intended difference in capability.
And I think the way that items with better craftsmanship fall into the hands of higher-ranked soldiers isn't because there's a bunch of different military production lines churning out a bunch of different versions of the same gear with different capabilities.
That would, I reckon, be hideously inefficient and obviously unnecessary. Just find the middleground and optimise production for that level, like human mass production does.
Which is why I think, at least at higher ranks, gear acquisition becomes a matter of higher ranked soldiers seeking out their own gear from private sources.
In regards to the big question - why UNSC soldiers who aren't Spartans don't have shields in some form?
Well, first point - we don't necessarily know that they do not. Prototypes might be out there - the reactive marines from Halo Wars 2's blitz mode are a good lead. And a mobile bubble shield seems a more human-centric method of bringing shielding to the battlefield.
After all, UNSC infantry don't fight like elites or spartans - they try and avoid exposing themselves to enemy fire, and they certainly don't charge into melee combat if they can't avoid it. The reasons for that are obvious - humans don't have the physical capabilities of sangheili.
Second point - the Covenant has been producing energy shielded kit for hundreds if not thousands of years, and its successor factions have retained their expertise and tools. It's a fair enough assumption that it's a delicate and difficult art to turn out energy shield equipment that consistently functions. Currently, MJOLNIR armour and the accompanying energy shields are produced extremely carefully, probably under lock-and-key by ONI, NavSpecWep, and the Spartan branch itself. The UNSC simply may not have the logistics to move into larger scale production right now, especially in light of all the other modernization programs it's currently undertaking in regards to its naval assets and whatever else.
I mean, the UNSC does seem to at least somewhat invested in making their infantry more competitive and safe on the battlefield - look at their new body armour variations, which one might assume are the result of developments made in increasingly survivability against energy weapons. Look at the sudden widespread prevalence of rifle-scale weapons with attributes that them make them effective against shielded or otherwise nonhuman heavy infantry - the hydra, the railgun, the remote detonator.
So yeah, it's probably just a matter of producing or obtaining compact safe energy sources in order to make it work, and finding an ergonomic way of working it into non-MJOLNIR infantry kit. You're probably on the right track.
last anchor
Seriously dude, you have got to make a YouTube channel for this stuff. You'll reach way more people
Also, dont forget its been barely 6 years since the end of a 28 year long bloody grind fest. The UNSC is on its feet but it aint standing upright fully just yet
And now its gotten knocked in the teeth by the Created. so
versed helm
Good point.
strong sage
Yeah in a way Unsc is still under rehabilitation
versed helm
not to mention humanity is down tens of billions
last anchor
And the majority of their colonies
versed helm
Inner colonies, though. That's one of the few things that I don't reckon gets realized enough. Most of the surviving colonies would have been fairly high-population, high-development inner colonies.
strong sage
I have a question regarding Forerunner warships , if their combat suits military class armor can adapt to any foreign projectiled does that mean their own warships have the same kind of features as well?
versed helm
Colonies which, as we see in The Cole Protocol, were swamped with refugees.
And presumably yes.
strong sage
Like how in Halo 4 the Mantle’s approach kinda closing things thingy after being shot by infinity
Yeaah i was under impression it was under like that was well
But well shet doesn’t that mean that their warships are kinda like sturdy and really hard to destroy
versed helm
It's a bit of a trend in Halo that all armour of a faction reflects on all their other armour. Human soldiers wear lightweight titanium-alloy armour with many gel and mesh underlayers of various purpose, their ships have that on a much larger scale. Covenant ships are all advanced nanolaminates and shields, so are their troops.
If Forerunner infantry armour can adapt to handle varying threats - which, considering the Forerunner's mastery of intricate grav-tech and hard light, they sure as hell can - then their ships totally can too.
strong sage
That is.....well said my applause to you fam. But dayyum thou like just imagine the naval battle took between ancient humans and forerunners back then , seeing forurunner ships in a way kept regenerating their armor or adapt to any foreign projectiles etc must be really scary for us back then o.O
versed helm
I imagine we probably had our own tricks. The Forerunners saw us as a threatening competitor, after all.
strong sage
That is trueee , not to mentiom we held out for more than 50 years during the final battle with them but dayyum thou. Now im just going to wait official arts of fortress class vessel fam xD
versed helm
Heck yeah, dude. If the theories hold true, looks like we're probably going to be getting more acquainted with ancient humans and the events surrounding them in the coming era of Halo. So you might be in luck.
feral perch
It's "though" @strong sage
strong sage
Ehhhh i just like to use thou rather than using the full one cheers lol
runic furnace
As a worker, and in work has to handle aterials from our suppliers, more costs doesn't equate wit better quality. If the shield would better for higher ranked people because ddifferent maker, actually, based on real life, some random grunt would be really efficient shield because manufracturer made it good, even tho not getting paid much for doing it.
feral perch
But... but... "Thou" is an actual word, pronounced "Th-Ow"
versed helm
No use being a spelling-Covvie on Discord tbh
subtle depot
Are there any different shaped energy swords or just the ones in game
I know prophets bane is a little shaped differently
carmine sleet
Well, it's likely they do have swords with different blade shapes out there, we've just not seen them yet
That said, we have seen different colours, such as the red blades used by Silent Shadow teams
versed helm
considering the blades are made of plasma and are held together using magnetic fields it makes sense that they can be any color plasma can be
and their shape should be able to change depending on how the field is set up
quasi ferry
I'm reading First Strike and honestly, it's kind of awoken me to the dangers of Slipspace travel, or being stranded in the middle of nowhere
versed helm
Right! The universe is a huge place, and we are beyond tiny.
Puts it in perspective.
Though I will say, about the blades, Halo 5 in-game dialogue that you can encounter when walking around the Sword of Sangheilios camp says that the blades used by Jul's covenant are intentionally made to not burn as hot, so they don't cauterize wounds as effectively.
So clearly, you guys are right. There's a lot of variation between energy swords, even ones that superficially look the same.
onyx vigil
which is ab absolutely terrible thing to do
unique rune
I mean. If you want your enemies to suffer and continue to bleed horribly, a blade designed to cauterize wounds less effectively is a brilliant idea.
subtle depot
That just goes to show how brutal and desperate Jul’s covenant is. Unlike standard sanghelli they will resort to desperate means to stay relevant. Rather than being the top dogs they were they are now clinging to survival
chrome copper
I havs read fall of reach what next?
versed helm
Well, The Flood if you want to know how The Fall of Reach feeds into Halo CE in some of the more subtle ways that aren't obvious the game. The Flood is the novelization of CE after all. It's an interesting read, and shows you that things in Halo's games might not play out in exactly the way they seem to, at least if you're into deep canon, as well as telling a bunch of interesting side-stories.
It's also extraordinarily grim and ultra-violent by the standards of a Halo novel.
But if you don't want to rehash Halo CE, you can just skip right through to First Strike, which picks up right after Halo CE and tells you how everything came to be the way it was when Halo 2 started off.
plush silo
a really good book read I would recommend would be ghost of Onyx
versed helm
I haven't read a Halo book since the Forerunner trilogy. Any decent recommendations? I wanna read the one about Buck
carmine sleet
New Blood and Bad Blood both focus on Buck
versed helm
are they any good?
carmine sleet
Bad Blood definitely is. Not read New Blood though so I can't personally say
carmine frost
New Blood is really good @versed helm
It is chronologically before Bad Blood.
feral perch
@versed helm I would recommend Silent Storm and Envoy
carmine frost
^
versed helm
thanks boys, I'll check em out
I'm reading Smoke and Shadow to prepare for renegades
carmine frost
Both of those are good
versed helm
What do you guys think Spartan Vs would be like?
Personally I'd like to see something similar to Nanosuits from Crysis
5th gen Spartans could have some cool stealth capabilities
strong sage
Hmmmmmm if we’r talking about nex gen spartans i think probably they’ll stay at 4 but as for armor as like nanosuits
We have to wait for gen 3
Who knows they might incorporate forerunner tech like the teleportations the armigers used
runic furnace
I don't think they would be much different from previous. Better shields, faster recharge, better armour, but faster movement
strong sage
But if gen 3 have constrain lock that would be nice
versed helm
to me personally, THEmosy interesting thing about halo is the covenant navy.
It's just so cool.
remote spruce
Halo Wars 3 with spaceships when : (
versed helm
I can't even remember how many times I've been in arguments with star wars fans over who would win between the imperial navy and the covenant navy
big sigh
subtle depot
We probably won’t have spartan fives fir a while the four program is doing well
strong sage
Yeah tru i mean , even if they are gonna make the fifth one who will be the candidates that’s the question, is it possible that they gonna use back children? But with more in “ethical” terms
last anchor
Honestly Star Wars got left behind way long ago in terms of naval capability.
The UNSC could handle them mostly
subtle depot
Nova bomb time
Instead of having to get the torpedo into a small hole the bomb needs to be in the general area. For destroying the Death Star
last anchor
Pretty much. Assuming of course they didnt just send a Spartan over with an AI.
Something tells me that a single armored soldier properly camoflauged and masked could slip aboard...and the Star Wars universe has no answer to a Smart AI. Even their best slicer droids are nothing compaired to an infiltration aI
And then its Ascendant Justice time
feral perch
Disagree
The Force would offer a significant advantage over a Spartan
Darth Vader could handle Chief fairly easily in a cloee-quarters engagement.
*close
subtle depot
Or even a UNSC soldier in general. Since halo is in a different universe the UNSC is disconnected from the force meaning Jedi have no effect. And while deflecting plasma/lasers are one thing even if you could deflect a bullet it still sprays you with melted lead
Close quarters Jedi stand a chance because they have a very quick reaction time but in all other scenarios Spartans win
feral perch
That's rather arbitrary. If you're mixing universes, why wouldn't the Force be a factor?
last anchor
Because there was existing canonical stuff in Star Wars for species with no force connection.
god bless the Yuuzhan Vong
subtle depot
In Star Wars the Yuuzhan Vong are disconnected and Jedi have no effect
feral perch
Hm?
subtle depot
Since nobody in halo is lifting stuff with thoughts we can assume they are also disconnected
last anchor
Tail end of the Legends existance. 30 something long book series
And yeah, if there were midichlorians, the Halo assault probably wiped them out
feral perch
But people from Star Wars are. Why wouldn't they bring their force connections with them?
subtle depot
They would but the power has no effect against someone not connected to the force
feral perch
Midichlorians aren't the Force, only an indicator of it.
subtle depot
Yes but you have to be connected to the force for it to effect you
If it can’t interact with you the Jedi can’t use it
feral perch
So why do Mind Tricks and other things work on non-Force sensitives?
fair hazel
They have the force
subtle depot
They aren’t sensitive but they are connected
fair hazel
Midichlorians are ties to to living force
subtle depot
Connected does not mean able to use just under its influence
last anchor
And the Vong were totally removed completely right?
feral perch
So how do we know that in this crossover scenario, everyone in the Halo portion is disconnected from the Force, and not simply non-Force-sensitive?
fair hazel
Vong were removed
fair hazel
Imperial navy have numbers but covenant ships are just so much better
subtle depot
There are so many people in the halo universe one would have to be sensitive and since the force is non canon in halo we can assume
subtle depot
As for ships we see a single a wing crash destroy a super star destroyer with its shields down. A MAC or HAVOK would obliterate it
versed helm
UNSC ships are just no where near the damage output of any imperial ship.
It would be a stomp every time.
last anchor
Dont need to be. MAC rounds have range and kinetic motion.
Shields dont stop kinetic energy
Hit an Imperial ship with one, the air spaces inside rign like a bell
You'll kill the crew from heamoraging before you break the sheilds
versed helm
Ok, so you can take out a singular start destroyer.
subtle depot
Destroys the ship one hit
versed helm
What about the other 25 thousand?
last anchor
Stolen. XD
versed helm
The UNSC would be drowned by power and numbers.
last anchor
The Empire's CPIE stuff is pathetic.
They dont have resistances against Smart AIs or Spartan boarding teams.
Any ship they bring to the field is going to get infiltrated and captured
subtle depot
Macs can fire very quickly and from a far range
feral perch
Perhaps. But post-Covenant War? Enhanced Slipspace techniques could allow UNSC ships to outmaneuver the Imperial Navy.
versed helm
You'd need multiple teams of Spartans per star destroyer.
The UNSC can't afford that.
last anchor
(Glances at Osiris)
You sure about that
Like I said, Smart AI. Remember acendant justice?
versed helm
Osiris lived because of plot armor.
subtle depot
Okay but even if they don’t board the UNSC ships are way more powerful. It’s effectively chief versus a horde of grunts
feral perch
No, I think a single Spartan team could handle Stormtroopers. Going off the movies, for sure.
feral perch
no
versed helm
Yes it is.
feral perch
it's really not
versed helm
Look up the specs.
feral perch
Slipspace offers much more flexibility.
versed helm
Hyper space can travel many times further than slip space in a single jump.
feral perch
Depends on your engine.
versed helm
I appreciate what you're trying to argue, but you have most of your facts wrong.
feral perch
But that's not what's at stake.
versed helm
Look up what you're saying and fact check it against Wookieepedia and halo wiki.
feral perch
Have you read Rise of Atriox issue #4 @versed helm?
versed helm
No.
subtle depot
Go read it
versed helm
I'm in a slayer game rn, be back in like 5-10.
feral perch
kk
last anchor
Techically @subtle depot Your not immune (see First Strike). And I think hyperspace is in fact a seperate dimension, just...cleaner than slipspsace
But that same factor means that stuff like Interdictors work on Hyperspace whereas they wouldnt on slipspace engines
subtle depot
Ah okay sorry about that I’ll remove that
last anchor
But slipspsace requires a lot more precision and a Forerunner slip core to properly work
Otherwise you can drop out of space a day from your destination, as the UNSC had to deal with many a time before
Whereas with hyperspace you go where you need to, when you need to
Its also a little bit faster I think, depending on the class of engine
subtle depot
Okay so Star Wars wins speed but in the terms of ship to ship naval engagement the UNSC has them beat
last anchor
IMO, they're the same thing, except for the UNSC Shaw and Fujikawa figured out the blunt forc e way to do it while the corellians and the Duros smashed their heads against rocks till they figured out hyperspace
feral perch
post-Covenant War, I think so.
last anchor
Yeh. Infinity especially. Not all UNSC ships have her upgrades
Just some of them, mostly the new Autumn classes and the frigate
frigates
subtle depot
As we discussed earlier though even a single Mac blast can effectively cripple a star destroyer
So even without upgrades if the UNSC got off the first shot they’re okay
feral perch
It's a wonder that nobody uses projectiles anymore in Star Wars.
fair hazel
I was into versus before that
subtle depot
We’ve seen infinity ram and split a small covenant ship it can tank some turbo lasers
last anchor
Infinity's as big as a small SSD as well.
Five klicks is nothing to sneeze at for a ship
Its bigger than the Raddus by two klicks
And the length of almost six ISDs
fair hazel
The thing that sucks is how little archer missiles modern unsc ships have in standard configuration
last anchor
They've been replaced with better missiles is why
The Howler and the other one
Bigger payload, bigger fuel supply.
Also some UNSC ships can self-reload now, liek the spirit can or infinity
So the small amount of launchers isnt an issue because those launchers never run dry
last anchor
Its a Strident. Its main weapon is the MAC and its nukes
fair hazel
Not counting its nuclear missile
versed helm
UNSC does not have star destroyer beat lma0
last anchor
We're past that mate
versed helm
well i just got back
last anchor
The Strident is supposed to support larger ships
fair hazel
The pris class had 50.
last anchor
Because its a bigger frigate and designed for differen things
fair hazel
Even the autumn. Doesn’t have that many.
versed helm
The only thing that could take a star destroyer head to head consistently would be the infinity
and then it would need repairs
fair hazel
No star destroyers aren’t that strong
last anchor
Your bringing up pre-War ships for the most part Eric
The newer ones have things that are better
fair hazel
Canon...
versed helm
huh
last anchor
Previous ones couldn't take that many missiles cause they didnt have the room for em
Even real life ships dont carry gigantic amounts of missiles
Missiles are big. They and their lauchers take up space
Even missile destroyers in todays navy have less than 100 missile launch tubes
fair hazel
I can definitely understand using less missiles due to their reduced effectiveness but 2 seems a bit low still.
Although the heavy hitter is its Mac
last anchor
Again, the Strident isnt made to brawl
Its not an anti-ship frigate, its a multi role. Its main job is to flank the sides of something like Infinity and keep fighters and smaller ships off of her
If they need missile support they scuttle back close to Infinity's flanks and the Big Stick turns their foes to dust
Im pretty sure that there's a UNSC frigate designed for missile work that has like, 12+ batteries just littered accross her hull. The other frigate, the Anclint I think? They've got lasers so
fair hazel
The anlace is different... it uses energy weapons.
And think of stridents outside the infinity
In normal navy
Who knows. Maybe the Paris has multiple but less numerous missiles in their pods
Whereas strident has more in their pods
A different feed system or something
last anchor
Probably. I know that each missile pod has multiple missiles
Cause Fall of Reach mentions a number of pods by number of missiles per pod
That probably helps a little
versed helm
Even if the UNSC had equal powered vessels, the empire could just spam star destroyers and storm troopers until the UNSC was completely eradicated.
The empire had trillions of storm troopers, and 25 thousand star destroyers.
And that was their peace time military.
subtle depot
Lets put it this way the rebellion defeated the empire. An organized military force would be much better
Especially with specialization like Spartans and ODST
versed helm
🤦
The rebellion won because they had the force.
Luke Skywalker?
That was kind of a main point of the movies bro.
hardy goblet
versed helm
I mean, not really, but....
fair hazel
The empire had numbers. But their ships were not very great.
They lacked automatisation too, requiring things to be manual instead of automated p
So the unsc has bettered powered vessels.
The macS are just going to penetrate their ships.
And point defense is pretty good. And they’ve got the range
versed helm
A single volley from star destroyer turbo lasers would take out a UNSC ship.
So even if every UNSC vessel had a MAC, it would be whoever shot first.
versed helm
Yes they are.
fair hazel
To be actually powerful
See attacking mon calamari city
See rebels attacking the city when thrawn was trying to destroy it.
Unsc shields should take the blunt.
Also that would require the imperial ships to even get close
subtle depot
Especially infinity can tank most of what they throw at them
fair hazel
Before they are destroyed
subtle depot
And yeah turbo-lasers are short ranger
fair hazel
Sure Infinity but the unsc fleet is larger than Infinity
subtle depot
Compared to UNSC weapons at least
versed helm
Keep in mind that star destroyer turbo lasers can destroy even large asteroids in a single shot.
UNSC shields could maybe take the first volley, but not more.
fair hazel
It has a range for effectiveness of its most powerful turbo lasers
subtle depot
And a large asteroid is different than a titanium-A armored and shielded warship
fair hazel
Keep in mind that asteroids colliding apparently caused them to explode as well in a flash
versed helm
UNSC shields are incredibly weak compared to imperial shields.
subtle depot
All it needs to take is the first volley once a MAC goes off the star destroyer is crippled
fair hazel
So much stuff can get through imperial shields...
subtle depot
Not actually
I mean not actually strong
Imperial shields are paper
And again shields don’t matter because the macs kinetic energy would go right through
carmine sleet
I doubt a Star Destroyer can "tank" a star. More burn up from being too close to it
fair hazel
The hyperspace beasts destroying those isds would disagree factually
Or how that nebula thingy when agitated threw hot hot at Star destroyers and eradicated them
Or how an imperial star destroyer collided with another and destroyed it
Or how a cruiser crashed into a star destroyer and slash
carmine sleet
I get the feeling that kevtastical doesn't quite understand how stars work
fair hazel
No you’re not
versed helm
Look it up if you refuse to believe me.
@carmine sleet Having a passive aggressive tone doesn't do anything to disprove my claim.
fair hazel
He’s fine . I already mentioned examples. You. Have not.
Rebel’s has so many of them too
versed helm
Rebels is a children's show that's gotten many things factually incorrect in the past.
And the "star destroyer on star destroyer" crash only occurred after both of their shields were down.
carmine sleet
Ironically, I believe Rebels is actually one of the most factually consistent shows for Star Wars
versed helm
Well then you're sorely mistaken.
Let me see if you guys can understand it this way.
If the UNSC was extremely near to losing to the covenant, (which they were before being saved by the schism), then how do you think that the UNSC possibly has a chance at defeating the empire?
The covenant had a few thousand naval vessels.
The empire has 25k.
fair hazel
Rebels is canon. Sorry but that’s how it is.
Even Star Wars the last Jedi can be used.
The unsc were on the back foot technologically. And the covenant is also better than empire ships
After the war, the unsc got better.
versed helm
Canon doesn't mean there can't be errors.
And the last jedi can't be used honestly, if we're talking about the empire here.
I agree that covenant vessels are better, but the numbers just aren't there.
Neither the UNSC or covenant could win a straight up fight against the empire.
It's just not feasible.
Now, if the covenant was able to insert several teams of zealots and eliminate the emperor, they might actually have a chance.
subtle depot
Do you not understand the arguments we’re making
The only evidence you’ve provided has been mostly incorrect
versed helm
You haven't refuted any of my claims with factual evidence so far.
Do you understand how arguing a point works?
Not to mention it takes several minutes for ship based MAC guns to reload. So even if they hit and critically damage a star destroyer, they'd be vulnerable to others until they reloaded.
subtle depot
We’ve refuted star destroyer shields tanking stars
And turbo laser effectiveness and range
And described how effective a MAC would be on a star destroyer
versed helm
You didn't refute any of it though.
subtle depot
We provided examples from star wars that disprove it
last anchor
Not many unfortunatly...theres not a lot of data in the canon anymore
Legends had good stuff but even then it was fairly limitd
this is the issue with compairing the two series, since Star Wars is far less "hard" than Halo's stuff is
last anchor
Least it got rid of stuff like the Crystal Star tho
versed helm
It's the main reason I switched to halo as my favorite sci-fi universe.
remote spruce
Troy Denning was like "yo moving to Halo" when the EU got RIP'd (not really but the timing is suspect)
last anchor
I wouldnt be surprised if that was the case actually
When Legends got mashed, Timmothy Zhan approached Microsoft and 343 to write a Halo book.
They wouldnt let him see the full lore though so that didnt go through and he ended up writing a StarCraft book.
Then Disney got him back and he wrote the two new Thrawn novels which are as good as anything else so far
So maybe we have hope for a Zhan Halo book.
Again I say; Atriox novel
versed helm
Silent storm was a good read.
I especially liked how we got to see more of the Silent Shadow than we did previously.
gilded sentinel
^ My only issue was the abrupt ending
worldly wren
I would read the heck out of an Atriox Zahn book
Anyway,what is your favorite UNSC ship?
Mine is the Marathon.
She's a beauty,she is,and heavily armed too.
radiant sphinx
I love the design of the UNSC Destroyers e.g. Heart of Midlothian (Halberd Class)
hybrid hedge
in halo 4, dr. halsey was incinerated but in halo 5 she’s only missing her arm. it still bothers me to this day
tawny salmon
that wasnt dr halsey
it was another doctor
in spartan ops halsey gets her arm cut off by an elite
tawny salmon
in 4 that doctor was just some new introduction that got killed
its fine
honest;y its not that important
its fun to play with a friend]
but story wise they throw it all out the window besides halseys arm'
hybrid hedge
lol
tawny salmon
I dont blame you
when I first started halo
I thought that in reach jun was master cheif
hybrid hedge
big boy oof
tawny salmon
and then after you leave him in campaign I thought noble 6 was gonna get this..
worldly wren
Halberd are very nice ships,love 'me to death. Favorite SPARTAN generation?
subtle depot
Gonna be called a heretic for this but I really like the 4’s. The fact that all of them have gen2 mjolnir and are voluntary is good. I guess you could say if I was a spartan I would want to be a 4
worldly wren
I personally prefer the tragedy of the IIIs,but to each his own.
Hmm. Can we talk about alternate universe scenarios in here?
orchid lion
I'm with Admiral the spartan llls are defenantly an interesting part of halo lore
versed helm
I love all Spartans equally, in their own way
Here's a random half-formed canon idea I had
People are always going "waaaah, waaah, why do some UNSC ships have exposed open bridges with big glass bits".
And, to an extent, it is a little silly.
But what if the UNSC manufactures a transparent material that is ridiculously strong. Like, potentially stronger than their titanium-A armouring, but too expensive or rare to use more widely.
orchid lion
That's an interesting concept
versed helm
So in a way, they're actually up-armouring their bridges, even though they're still positioned relatively externally.
Which I personally think makes sense when you imagine the trajectory of a MAC skewering through an entire ship.
worldly wren
That's something similar to what Star Wars Legends has IIRC. The 'glass' viewportsare actually the same strength as the outer hull.
That is an interesting theory on why the UNSC mounts their bridges outside like that. However,you also have to consider the UNSC's other main weapon; missiles.
versed helm
That's interesting info about SW - I guess my "idea" is more or less a base assumption for a lot of sci-fi xD
orchid lion
Just about
versed helm
But you also have a point on the missiles.
I guess they must've just done the calculations and decided that, taking into account the applicable accuracy of missiles over whatever combat range in space is most common, trying to reduce the threat of penetrating MACs to the command crew has more applied functionality.
And the usefulness of missiles depends, I suppose, on exactly how well-protected these bridges are.
If these bridges are at least up to the standards of Star Wars ones, and then have additional blast shielding that can be used to cover them, it might be a sensible trade-off.
worldly wren
Perhaps they have multiple bridges,one inside,one outside? The CO on one,the XO on the other?
versed helm
Like a modern battleship. A bridge for sailing, a CIC for fighting.
I mean, I guess it's entirely possible. It's just never seen used or, like, mentioned.
I feel like warfleet would've addressed it.
worldly wren
Hmm. I wonder what would happen if the UNSC was given technology from 40k(lasguns,Bolters,etc)?
versed helm
If they were also given the rules of 40k's universe to go along with them, they'd be freaking unstoppable.
If not, well they might be of limited use.
I imagine the UNSC could manufacture a boltgun-like weapon. It's just kinda overkill and impractical for use by anyone who's not an astartes.
Though, y'know, they are part-way there. Boltguns are basically just oversized carbines that fire huge-calibre AP-HE rounds, with its AP capabilities and accuracy being boosted by its rocket motor and pentrative tip which is made of some ultra-resilient diamond substance or supermetal, from memory.
The UNSC already makes use of ammo that operates on the same principles - I'm sure everyone's familiar with the reputation of the 12.7mm SAP-HE ammo used by the M6 series.
Of course, the magnum's ammo lacks a rocket propulsion system, that I will grant.
timid mauve
50 cal from a pistol, must have hurt like hell to fire.
strong sage
Lads any news on infinity’s sister ship eternity? I mean uhhhh is it still under construction or unsc scrapped it
versed helm
I guess it depends on the weapon's construction and what methods the UNSC might have of mitigating recoil.
They use a magnetic-fluid based system in shotguns.
Plus, .50 deagles are a thing.
slow viper
Cant wait for france to be canon lore
strong sage
France? O.o
slow viper
what?
strong sage
XD
Anyways im not surprised that if the Ma5 series will start using hardlight rounds in the future , do you guys think that it is possible?
versed helm
Well, isn't that what kinetic bolts are about?
slow viper
completely
versed helm
My working theory is that the kinetic bolt attachment sheathes the round in a field of hard light that, while not affecting its ballistic characteristics in any way, massively amplifies the mass of the round when it hits its target.
So it's not a true hard-light projectile, but it utilizes hard light.
versed helm
I thought the actual hard-light attachment bit was worked onto the weapon's muzzle brake.
So you're firing stock-standard ammo, but it's undergoing a process as it exits the barrel.
I reckon the hard-light stays relatively weightless and loose, only firming up and gaining mass just as it's about to impact.
mystic trail
I wish we'd get more information about the Universe before the 26th Century
Particularly with the expansion of the UEG
versed helm
That would be cool.
I wonder how you might do it. A straight-up shooter in the Interplanetary War would be probably cause people to be disappointed and angry.
Maybe you could do some kinda space-exploration game.
broken topaz
Does anyone know if the ancient humans during the human-forerunner era went by a different race name than "human"?
versed anvil
broken topaz
Oh okay. Thank you
versed helm
Did they fr just add an "une" on the end
And make the u at the start of "human" an "a"
That's... kinda silly. But anything's plausible.
tardy topaz
mystic trail
Maybe something in the vein of Far Cry.
Man, could you imagine that? A Halo game with the Dunia Engine?
last anchor
@versed helm This is probably super duper late but "durasteel", the material most starship hulls in Star Wars was made out of, is apperently canon in Halo thanks to Silent Storm.
A misstype by Denning, perhaps, but either way, its a thing now.
Thats said, if durasteel is in it, transperisteel (the material you speak of) is possibly there as well.
I highly doubt that the bridge "glass" on UNSC vessels is anything but void hardened transparent metal
last anchor
You are most welcome
versed helm
Quick question
Have we ever figured out what the United Earth Space Corps from H2A's opening is?
Huh.
last anchor
Where's it mentioned?
versed helm
Halo 2 anniversary, Cairo Station opening cutscene
last anchor
I mean what part
versed helm
Hood addressing Johnson
broken vapor
A friend of mine talked about ODST not being important to the main story arc but wasn't it heccing important that they got the info from the engineer? How important is ODST to the story?
last anchor
Oh yeah that thing
I think he means the UNSC Marines, just with their full proper title
United Earth Government, Space Marine Corps
last anchor
Heh.
versed helm
Guessing it's self-depricating.
last anchor
This is just my conjecture, mind you, I have no legitimate clue
But it makes sense based on what I can see
Also, yes. ODST is important because they captured a freaking ENGINEER. Those things are valuable as all hell
It having data on the Ark and stuff is just a nice bonus
broken vapor
It's a reference to an online series called Carmilla and also my nickname amongst my friends. I have a group of friends and we all call ourselves the useless lesbians.
But yeah, I had a friend saying it had nothing to do with Master Chief but I was like "I'm pretty sure they got info from the Engineer that helped them find Installation 00 or something important that helped them win the war."
glass path
True.
It's a shame the ODST aren't really spoken of anymore.
Wish they would make a sequel to Halo: ODST
last anchor
They did. Its called New Blood
broken vapor
Also, why isn't it Halo 2: ODST if it takes place during the events of Halo 2?
glass path
Yeah?
last anchor
2552
The opening of ODST is the last cutscene of Metropolis
And then its another...12+ hours or so
I think
broken vapor
Oh, and one more thing while I get ready to head off for bed. Am I the only one who's tired of all the "Noble 6 is in a cave" jokes?
Idk, I feel that's lore-related
versed helm
But it's true
xD
He's in the cave with Jorge
And Rookie
And real Cortana
And Samuel
And Forge
And Johnson
And Kurt
carmine sleet
The cave joke is just annoying
versed helm
And Miranda
broken vapor
Even if it was He became a pincushion for those Elites, the planet got GLASSED, and what food/water would he have had?
versed helm
obviously it's ridiculous
but i prefer to be outraged over other jokes
like the one about MJOLNIR that Zanny made well known
broken vapor
Y'all should check out my animation that I dropped in the #471727324895641651 channel btw
versed helm
Will do
broken vapor
Also, I feel like ODSTs should all have armor, even if it isn't spartan armor, called mjolnir because what happens when those pods hit the dirt?
THEY BRING THE THUNDER
last anchor
Clever.
upper star
@versed helm don't forget admiral cole
versed helm
Right, him too xD
strong sage
@broken vapor holeee i like that the sound of that “Bring in the thunder” xD
Even when buck screamed “Alright Troopers we are green and very very mean” it gave me goosebumps prior to their drop
versed helm
I don't think he screamed so much as confidently affirmed in a shouty voice
Or perhaps, more to the point
He Nathan Fillion'd.
strong sage
Aye true lel xd
last anchor
Buck is Nathan Fillian, in the same way Malcom Reynolds is Nathan Fillion, Captain Hammer is Nathan Fillian, and Castle is Nathan Fillian
They are all the same man wearing a variation of trench coat and/or ballistic armor
soft warren
Trench coat = ballistic armor in my booka
fading timber
gilded mason
Are you sick of pizza yet?
fading timber
I have too much italian blood to be sick of it
gilded mason
Very good.
fair hazel
Pizza skin assault rifle exists at least
obsidian thistle
At least in War Games.
War Games logic allows for insane stuff to be canon and have no major bearing on what happens outside it.
subtle depot
I’m a stickler for canon so I use all the standard skins
modest marsh
Some of the skins may actually be used in service
gilded mason
I just wish there were skins like chrome, weathered and scratched, etc.
obsidian thistle
I wish Halo 5 had all the skins that were in Halo 4.
Cause I miss the cool AR skins
vivid dust
Bloody AR best AR
fair hazel
Steampunk
tiny yarrow
Trauma and Shark AR best
upper star
Sharktooth AR
subtle depot
I really hope we get to see charum hakor sometime in the future games
It would be awesome to see more of ancient humanity and the precursors
wanton lance
hi
versed helm
ay
versed helm
Remind me,what was the point of the Janus Key story line?
gilded mason
In the end, there was no point.
versed helm
Yep
Basically, they tried to make it a storyline
But failed
And Jul's death was pathetic
But then the entire internet decided Brian Reed was basically a war criminal
Poor dude
versed helm
I don't like Fireteam Osiris
First time I've heard that opinion, lol
These are old discussions
Let's talk about something fresh and new
Like how people who trash the warthog as a silly and unrealistic vehicle are foolish
Because they clearly have payed no attention to the UNSC's doctrine of airborne transportation with ground utility vehicles purely employed as a support measure, most often as light gun platforms
I wonder..what do moa nuggets taste like?
And they also aren't aware that, when needed, a warthog could be rigged up with fully protected doors, an armoured cabin in the back and remote-control weapon mounts above the roll cage
We just don't see that in the human covenant war because, due to the existence of plasma which would make short work of any armour you could put on a vehicle like the warthog and also has a nasty tendency to short out even well EMP-insulated electronics, they prioritized mobility and huge manually operated guns over more modern-style protective measures.
last anchor
Someone literally came into the Halopedia discord and was having a realistic military fit about the Scorpion
It was both hilarious and unnerving
versed helm
I wonder what arguments they were making.
last anchor
Basically the same; in game it has no fancy armor or shells and its gun is tiny so its a crappy tank
Turns out he hadn't read any of the book or extended lore, so we fixed that up quick like
versed helm
That would've been infuriating.
last anchor
I've gotten used to it.
versed helm
It's astounding to me how all these people with their supposed military knowledge can't think of any other variables - in a 26th century setting, no less - that could make a 90mm shell just as effective if not moreso than modern shells.
Y'know, there's no possible way the UNSC could amp up the velocity of their shells or make use of more efficient materials or explosive fillers.
It's not like it's a fairly obvious conclusion that the definition of what an MBT is to the UNSC could've shifted in line with their doctrine of war towards being what is effectively an airborne light tank that is canonically stated to have advanced countermeasure systems and extremely effective ceramic armour.
Bleh. Don't even get me started.
last anchor
He brought up the Tiger.
And admitted he liked it.
So I think his problem was what a lot of people get; they forget Halos set in the 26th century. Or more likely, never knew in the first place. No books read, no research done
versed helm
Wait
Did he bring up the Tiger - as in, the WW2 German Tiger - as an example of a capable and effective tank?
last anchor
Yes
versed helm
A tank that, while admittedly possessing of a formidable legacy, was one developed in an era where the principles of tank warfare were still being nailed down?
last anchor
YES
And that was built fo rentirely the wrong kind of battle the Germans were fighting?
versed helm
YES
Apparently I cap spammed too hard just then
But I was following on by talking about its total lack of sloped armour and all its technical issues
last anchor
Fear not, I know of its issues
versed helm
These people man
last anchor
I dont blame them. Sometimes their minds run ahead of their research. Its happened to me before
versed helm
It's just their ethos that gets me. The thing Halo has going for it is that it's fiction.
last anchor
HypEr ReaLISm THo
versed helm
For everything that seems ridiculous, there is an eternity of potential fun and creative justifications out there - everything's potentially valid, because reality itself ends up being more contrived and stranger than fiction every time.
last anchor
And, like you said, 26th century.
Complain all you want about the Scorpion but no one glances sideways at the Spartans?
versed helm
What could be a fun exercise in out-of-the-box thinking with a chance to learn about real concepts just becomes this bogged-down, cynical slugfest.
Right!
last anchor
Yes, lets complain about the gun on the Scorpion being too small when the main character we play as wears a suit of armor that apperently kills normal people.
And the whole training and augmentation thing, like...holy crap
You're telling me they ACTUALLY went through with this?
versed helm
Well, y'know. People love to flex their knowledge.
And since not many folks are actually knowledgeable in, y'know, the functionality of advanced strength-enhancing exoskeletal suits, they talk about the tanks.
But it's all on the same of level of relatively sane fiction, which you can always work with
last anchor
And the guns, and space ships.
And yes, compaired to stuff like, say, Star Wars (where the plot literally determines the effectiveness of equipment) its far far more stable
And for that I am eternally greatful
versed helm
And here's the real kicker for me
You ask these dudes what military sci-fi does meet their standards, what they do like.
And 90% of the time, they won't give you anything.
And that's the moment I always realize that they just can't step back and think about fiction in a way in which everything doesn't have to be totally analogous to something from real life.
Meanwhile, the creatives that actually come up with stuff are visualizing everything on a totally different level.
versed helm
Yeah, that's authentic military sci-fi for you right there. A guy who wrote cold war thrillers.
But hey, Ghost Recon's pretty tacticool, right?
Pffft
last anchor
(Insert Siege memes here)
glacial sandal
@last anchor Yeah... Definitely don't mention Spartans around them
last anchor
I get the feeling these are the people who dont like the S-IVs
versed helm
Y'know, at minimum, even if everything in Halo truly is nonsense and I'm just a madman
At least the UNSC doesn't have marines like Gridlock and Mozzie
glacial sandal
Most of the time they'll be like "Child Soldiers? Without nearly as much education and training as me? Pfft"
last anchor
Or something along those lines, yeah.
(Throws Fall of Reach at them)
versed helm
Anyone else find it strange how truth easily handled the Spike Rifle with two fingers, despite the weapon being 6 times heavier than human handguns?
Even a normal human would have trouble pinching a 15-and-a-half pound weapon like that
last anchor
Gigantic trigger pull on it too
versed helm
Well, he only used it very briefly.
And even then, in a kinda lacklustre way.
Just picked it up, fired it once, and tossed it aside.
last anchor
He just sorta drops it
flint pewter
Im a nerd
versed helm
Aren't we all?
spice plinth
so what r everyones thaughts on noble 6 surviving the elite attack
versed helm
It's generally accepted to be a joke by the Halo community
spice plinth
usually
versed helm
And if six did survive, it kinda undercuts the emotional resonance of Reach's story.
It is certainly sad that she died. But y'know, she was happy to do it, she died doing what she loves and did best, and her memory will live on in-universe.
Plus, she took a bunch of hinge heads with her. Or him. But six is a her to me.
Looks like the bot didn't like what you had to say. Happens a lot xD welcome to the club.
spice plinth
id say six survived elites cuz they didnt even hit her but i dont think she couldve survived the glassing and everything else
thats better
highly unlikely
versed helm
It cut away just as the elite's energy blade went into her. I don't think she could have escaped at least being mortally wounded - she was pinned down.
spice plinth
i just got so attatched i want her to live
versed helm
I feel ya, brother.
But war is war, y'know?
And Halo is about war. It'd be a disservice to reality to pretend everyone makes it.
It's one of the things that makes Chief so badass.
versed helm
He's been in the centre of the most deadly war that modern humanity has ever faced, and the fact that he persists - even where other warriors of his calibre fall - adds to his legend.
spice plinth
thats y i hated the ending of halo 4
versed helm
You can't break him. But the rest of us, including six - we need to close our eyes sometime.
spice plinth
- chief wouldnt die like that
- he was already confirmed for a few more games
versed helm
But Chief didn't die in Halo 4 xD
Or did you mean 3?
When he also didn't die but the game tricked you into thinking he did if you didn't do legendary?
versed helm
Nah, you are right.
Well, had he died, I reckon it would've been a fitting way to go out.
I personally think he didn't punch the nuke so much as force himself to hit the manual activation trigger xD
spice plinth
Woooooow
That's like if he used a parachute when jumping from space or if odst's used a parachute
versed helm
How do you mean?
spice plinth
Like I don't imaging chief just pushing a button instead of punching it just like I can't imaging him using a parachute when he jumped from space
Same with odst's
Man the infinity doesn't understand that Cortana just wants to play a fun game of hid nseek
versed helm
Well, that is one way of looking at it. He does tend to go for the extreme route.
flint pewter
Did everyone else like the head hunters story
strong sage
I kinda agree with u fam thay unsc emphasizes greatly with their air superiority and mobility assets xd
Its crazy when u think that they can deploy those jarheads anywhere and anytime ;-;
On the other note was is teh maximum speed for the pelican?
fair hazel
Noble 6 is a he and he’s dead
weak phoenix
cannonly he is a male
carmine yew
But he can also be female
His character is a blank slate that you can customize completely from the armor to the gender and even the voice
And it changes to what you change in campaign
topaz snow
Yes, you can play as Noble 6 the way you want in game and by all means you should, it's what was intended. However, canonically in the overall lore of Halo, Noble 6 is male.
fair hazel
Canonically it’s a male
obsidian thistle
Noble Six has very few moments where our choice actually does stuff.
One being the final missions where his armor can be changed without breaking established media.
last anchor
More or less ye
versed helm
hey giuys guys
frank mantle
People still think Noble 6 is alive and it’s sad
Though I wish he was too, him meeting Master Chief. Someone that is up to Chiefs caliber or even better, since Noble 6 was probably younger he still had a lot to learn.
runic furnace
Who thinks noble 6 is alive? And reason for noble six being canonically male is because telling he is ehat ever you want him to be in some book/info text would be really weird
last anchor
IMO Jun could have just said "six was a good soldier"
runic furnace
According this bungie's page, gender is not known or classified http://halo.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=personnel&cid=24527
carmine sleet
Bungie aren't in charge anymore so that doesn't matter
obsidian thistle
Oh Bungie lore had Noble 6 as male. 343i only kept it up
runic furnace
That page's info is to promote playwrs choices affecting the character and can imagine some background into the character
obsidian thistle
Halseys journal had a image of Noble 6.
https://www.halopedia.org/images/5/57/Noble_Surveillance.jpg
carmine sleet
It is
last anchor
So Jun was actually with them when they went in, instead of being in the Falcon
carmine sleet
Oh, I guess not then because I'm pretty sure that the game itself would override something like this in the lore
last anchor
Nah, I think this overrides the gam
game
Book canon surpasses game canon most of the time because balancing and gameplay consessions
obsidian thistle
Who says that this happens during a part we see. Reach leaves a lot of gaps.
last anchor
Well theres a date in the corner, Looks like August 26th
Wait, no July
My bad
July 26, 2552
obsidian thistle
Before the "ONI: Sword Base" mission if the time on that is Reach time.
last anchor
I would assume it is. So there we go
It doesnt happen during something we see, since its in the gap between Winter Contingency and ONI Sword Base
obsidian thistle
And then you have the "A Spartan Will Rise" trailer. A piece of canon that fills some gaps in the Halo: Reach story. Has Noble Six in default armor and as a male.
tiny yarrow
I thought that was common knowledge
Also, I know this sounds like a weird question, but is the Reach and Halo Wars instruction manual canon?
versed helm
Personally, I see any bit of "canon" that specifies Six's gender as a fluid thing.
Reach as a story experience is more meaningful if left in a state of canonical flux rather than trying to nail it down, I think.
But I'm man enough to admit that's just because I prefer female Six's VO.
obsidian thistle
Manuals are canon @tiny yarrow 😄
All of them between Halo 2 to Halo Reach. (Bar Halo 3 that one is just odd)
vivid dust
what's odd with it?
tiny yarrow
I can’t seem to remember the H3 one.
calm spruce
Why did Spartan I’s fail?
versed helm
Too few knew what the ladies liked.
One, however, did.
And he won the DARN war
So shut your mouth sonny jim
The truth is, ORION candidates were, generally speaking, still too human
As they began to age, their bodies began to fall apart, rendered catastrophic by failures of their enhancements
Many began to suffer psychological trauma or even sympathize with the innies
(All this according to Halopedia, btw)
(Which cites Halsey's personal journal)
But, y'know, the SPARTAN I program only failed if you consider Johnson to have failed. Which he did not.
tiny yarrow
Not necessarily
obsidian thistle
The Halo 3 one has no in-universe ties in it like the others between Halo 2 and Reach.
tiny yarrow
The candidates were too few in number to actually have an impact and the S1 augmentation process was finicky and killed many. Even though Johnson may have succeeded and the Orion project paved the way for the S2s, the S1 project still “failed”
obsidian thistle
Halo 2 has the UNSC one and Covie one.
Halo 3: ODST has it in the form of a Field manual
Halo Wars is a planetary guide.
tiny yarrow
And Reach is a field manual
obsidian thistle
Halo Reach is a field manual
versed helm
I mean, it succeeded in creating a lot of innie corpses.
obsidian thistle
Halo 2: Multiplayer Map pack has lore descriptions for each map. A worthwhile manual to have if you love map lore.
tiny yarrow
But not enough
versed helm
Because the innie threat amplified in its lifespan
tiny yarrow
Me likey map lore
spiral jewel
While it's unlikely to be the case, I wonder if in Halo 5, John is actually dealing with a form of post traumatic stress disorder as a result from what he experienced during CE, 2, 3 and 4 that he bottled up after so many years
gilded mason
what he experienced during CE, 2, 3 and 4 that he bottled up after so many years
Weren't the events of CE to 5 all around about a year and a half from his perspective? Though I do agree that all those battles would definitely effect somebody.
versed helm
It's always tempting to say that Chief is just far too resilient as a result of his indoctrination, training and experience to suffer from something as pedestrian as long-term combat fatigue.
But there is clearly something going on with him.
And it does see to centre on Cortana.
spiral jewel
@gilded mason 1-3 were. August through December 2552. 4 takes place in 2556(?), 5 takes place 2558
gilded mason
4 is July 2557, and 5 is October 2558
spiral jewel
Ah
I figured I was a year off on 4
@versed helm perhaps whatever horrendous things Mr Gravemind did to her is affecting John somehow, 6 years later...
versed helm
Ooh, I love theories like that.
Secretly I want the Flood to be behind, like, everything, y'know?
And it makes sense for them to be behind everything. Their intelligence and capability for long-term planning should surpass the Forerunners by a mile.
spiral jewel
Could explain why the Guardians decided to be reactivated
versed helm
Personally, my preferred (though admittedly, not that likely) theory is that Cortana is effectively a Flood sleeper agent.
Remember how, in that Halo 3 terminal, it was discussed how the enforcement of the Mantle made the galaxy weak and easy prey for the Flood by centralizing its strength and dis-arming the majority of its inhabitants?
And what's she trying to impose on everyone, with no thought for the clear and obvious threat posed by the Flood?
A threat she of all people should be totally aware of.
The Gravemind was probably aware of what Cortana was to Chief. Now, I think a romantic interpretation of Chief and Cortana's relationship is a little silly.
But to Chief, she does represent a lot of things. A comrade in arms and reliable asset, a source of tactical authority, a maternal figure (via her association with Halsey).
A co-survivor of things that are fairly horrific even to a warrior like him - cosmic horror, basically.
On some level, the Gravemind is probably aware that Chief is ultimately more likely to be an asset to her, even if she's covertly serving only the Gravemind's needs.
stable seal
no dude ,AI have like an expiry date and cortana is now way past over that date so she is malfunctioning!
versed helm
That's obviously part of it, duh.
subtle depot
I agree with grim looters is called logic plague combined with rampancy onset
versed helm
Hell, in all likelihood, the Cortana we see in Halo 5 is just a re-constituted form of one of the hundreds of fragments she broke into at the conclusion of Halo 4.
subtle depot
When Cortana died in halo 4 she split up into multiple shards. The Cortana chief knew died that day. However, one shard we know of made it to the domain and it is probably housing some amount of the logic plague
stable seal
yeah,that is true
versed helm
But who knows what 343 will do.
My understanding of the Halo universe, however, is that at the end of the day, the Flood is the biggest threat.
Think about it - even if the Covenant wiped out humanity, even if the Didact took control, there's still more to lose.
stable seal
but did u guys see in the trailer,Chief had an AI and i am thinking its definitely not Cortana!
versed helm
Any sentient life is better than no sentient life, and both of those eventualities are still vulnerable to the Flood.
stable seal
what or who could that AI be?
versed helm
My hope is a totally new one.
Or at, least, a new version of Cortana with a radically different personality.
stable seal
Or maybe it could be Jarvis lol
versed helm
Jarvis is nowhere near as advanced as UNSC smart AI.
He's probably closer to Auntie Dot than Cortana.
stable seal
LMAO
versed helm
Until, y'know, he went and became a Vision.
No, I mean, look at it this way.
UNSC smart AIs are actually living entities. They think and possess a consciousness, just as humans do.
Dumb AIs are just incredibly advanced computer programs, which Jarvis, I believe, was.
stable seal
There is definitely something seriously wrong with the installation in H6
yeah i agree about AI in that point
stable seal
in the trailer it just changes its form from a structure to natural
versed helm
nothing spooks me out than, y'know. "Something's not right here. Something's very, very wrong"
Oh wait
stable seal
what?
versed helm
Just the notion of something being really obviously wrong but under your nose the whole time
I just can't help but wonder more and more about the Halo CEA map Solitary
Something that's fundamentally wrong on a large scale
Who or what could've been imprisoned within that map?
spiral jewel
Aside from the likely enemy(s) of the flood and Prometheans, I wonder who we're going to fight in Infinite.
versed helm
I wanna fight some Innies
Innies on a Halo ring
"Hey, we want independence from the UEG! Even though the UEG effectively no longer exists because Cortana dabbed on it with giant space owls!"
Or a game where we could visit Venezia
stable seal
Cortana?
versed helm
Speaking of the Guardian Custodes,is there any effective way to reverse the damages from that EMP?
stable seal
Maybe chief has to fight CORTANA!
versed helm
Shock horror.
stable seal
That could be possible,cause there are 2 reasons.
1.For cortana to get her listen and come with him.
2.For Fireteam osiris as locke had taken away chief from her and she may get angry and plans to kill locke but chief has to protect locke so he may have to fight cortana!
versed helm
Or 3.maybe Abbadon is still lurking somewhere in the depths of the Domain and is just waiting for the perfect moment to strike
By Abaddon
Are talking the failure who needed 13 tries to take Cadia, or something from Halo lore that isn't clicking right now?
stable seal
?could you enlighten me about who are abadon
stable seal
ooooooooooo
stable seal
A Precursor!
versed helm
Precursor AI
spiral jewel
@versed helm as far as I know, the Huragok. But it'll take some time
versed helm
Could Darth Maul survive in the Halo universe?
gilded mason
Yes. I would assume he could breathe the air also found there as well as eat and drink.
versed helm
Duel of the fates starts playing
I can imagine him fighting the Didact
Galactic Empire vs the Covenant, who wins?
gilded mason
The Empire controlled more space than anyone in the Halo universe bar the Forerunners and Precursors, so I imagine that would also translate to other numbers.
versed helm
The Covenant also have similar firepower at their arsenal. The only thing they're missing is a Death Star but the Halo rings could make up for that
First Order vs the Banished
gilded mason
First Order would win handily.
last anchor
Yeahhhhhh.
Because an emotionally driven whiner like Hux would TOTALLY outthink ATRIOX
The man is about showboating and power, rather than actual tactics.
gilded mason
Atriox is small time.
gilded mason
Eh. I don't see it.
last anchor
And again comes the issue of that Covenant tech is still superior to anything the FO has.
Also, lets be real, face to face? A Brute is going to massacre a Stormtrooper
gilded mason
Sure. But from what I've seen FO has much more resources than the Banished.
last anchor
As a whole perhaps. But their factory ship is gone.
And the Banished are crafty buggers
versed helm
Imperium of Man vs the Covenant
gilded mason
And the Banished lost their main ship, so.
40K is massively overpowered compared to many other universes.
versed helm
Just imagine a covenant fleet trying to invade Cadia lol
They'd get massacred before they even make planet fall
Imagine if tyranids were in the Halo universe
versed helm
Or a flood infected tyranid
last anchor
Come on man, 40k isnt even FAIR xd
The Imperium doesnt need tactics; just drown them in Guardsmen
versed helm
Jerome or Kurt are the best Spartan-IIs, prove me wrong.
I won't try.
But I feel that Linda is also pretty good.
last anchor
Fred
versed helm
I wonder how Chief might react if he saw Fred,Linda,and Kelly die right in front of him
I don't wanna think about that
He'd probably go super beastmode
And then probably not really care about living anymore
last anchor
Unlock the full potential of the Librarians gift within him. Super Sayan Spartan
versed helm
Or maybe he'd form an incredibly close attachment to whatever other S-IIs would be left at that point.
Like, Naomi maybe?
Red Team, if he ever came into contact with em again.
Or Grey Team
Ye ye
Remind me,who was on Grey Team?
Jai, I remember being the leader.
Halopedia intensifies
Jai-006, Adriana-111 (sick name tbh), Mike-120.
Though they're kinda separate, even to other Spartan IIs.
I still wonder if any member of Beta-Red survived the Fall of Reach
strong sage
I guess Forerunners is the only way for Halo universe to beat some of the 40k races i presume? xd
last anchor
The UNSC could probably handle the Imperium once they stole their tech. They have no religious qualms about it, nor about advancing, improving, and modifying.
Not so much against most everyone else. Cept, again, maybe the Tau
TBH Im pretty sure the Crons and Forerunners brawled at some point or another
If not the Forerunners then the Precursors
versed helm
The problem with that is this.
The UNSC doesn't have the resources of a billion planets
They have like, maybe 100 postwar. If we're being generous.
young mortar
I would like to think that the halo universe would beat the 40k universe but I don't know I think 40k might win just cos of there Shere numbers and how overpowered the universe is
versed helm
I think there's an argument that the Forerunners, at their height, could tangle with the Imperium
But in the present era?
Not a chance.
A million odd astartes vs a few hundred spartans?
Nah thanks
austere solstice
yeah just the Astra Militarum backed by the Imperial Navy would be hard to deal with but a fully focused imperium of man in a stand alone fight against any enemy would be just suicide
versed helm
@versed helm actually they have less than 20 planets
Could the Halo universe survive a Black Crusade?
A black crusade is when billions upon billions of daemons, including chaos space marines come pouring out of the Eye of Terror and start wrecking everything in their path
In this scenario, Reach would be the closest planet to the Eye of Terror
Mortarion and Fulgrim will also join the battle.
austere solstice
whats the scale of it we talking like Black Crusade of Jihar the Lacerator or the 13th Black Crusade
versed helm
13th Black Crusade