But we dont know which one is which
#lore-and-universe
severe elbow
What evidence is there that the city in Arcadia City is Perth?
Other than the Achievement.
obsidian thistle
None at all. I'd need to check the Halo Wars 101 series thing.
And all other possible sources
Cause there may be 1 obscure mention
vague scroll
On the note of Paxopolis, I would argue there is nothing immediately wrong with it. It sounds something typical of the abstraction that is attempting to separate politics from science in our own time. Someone decided to name their new science boomtown "Peace Town" because they just wanted to have a city that said that people are setting aside their differences for something greater.
Whether that's true or not is another matter. People try to impose their hopes and optimism to hide away from the reality, hoping that what they believe comes true, even if its far-fetched at best. Scientists naming a town after something improbable like Peace Town seems appropriate, even if fundamentally naïve.
I would have appreciated to see more gritted teeth and under-breath-specist-remarks from the characters than everyone but children getting along all lovey-dovey like.
Like calling Paxopolis "Fakerville" among the kids or something.
The 180 flip where the Betas and Mendez just go along without really blinking about the aliens they work with seems to be a bigger error on Forbeck's writing part, however, we're not told how long Paxopolis has been in operation and what the SOS-UNSC joint project has been up to for all that time.
Maybe the transition to post-War apologizing was earned somewhere offscreen but at the end of the day, that's just a fault of the writing. I enjoyed Legacy of Onyx but I don't think its among my greats, simply put, it does a fair job informing me on what I can assume society is like in the Halo universe at the point of 2558.
I find the civilian stuff more interesting than the military sci-fi at this point, however, that's just my own feeling. I think of the parts of the novel, LoO's greatest weakness is the child-related sections with very great exception being put toward the prologue.
The escape from Paris V is very well written.
severe elbow
The implication isn't that the adults all get along, we just don't see it because we have no adult PoVs, though we hear the bullies' parents reward them for their behavior. In the short story in Fractures, it makes a point of showing a Marine having a problem with Kasha, and even Tom and Lucy aren't that hot on her.
vague scroll
I haven't read that short story so I admit I'm missing that bit of context, that said, I think a greater inclusion of adult perspectives in the novel would have helped much more.
vague scroll
There was some for Lucy and/or Tom I believe.
modest marsh
^
vague scroll
Which was admittingly lackluster. Their parts were always to push the plot forward or to serve as supporting characters.
I like what Forbeck was trying to do with Molly but I just don't feel like it was executed well.
severe elbow
That's the problem, yeah. Good ideas, bad writing.
It needed to go through another rewrite, at least.
modest marsh
I remember laughing at the initial fight between the bully character and the main kids we follow
vague scroll
I've spoken before about my apprehension on adding more YA elements to Halo but I think Legacy of Onyx does an overall decent job with what it has going for it. The worldbuilding elements were probably what drew me in most.
About the only times I had to put the book down and compose was the Molly sections that involved teenage drama.
obsidian thistle
I love LoO for actually making toy canon into mainspace canon.
vague scroll
Everything else was straight forward. Dural I had a hard time getting into at first but once he and his gang was on Onyx, I enjoyed it.
modest marsh
Molly getting hit in the face was one of the few times I can remember being grateful for the protagonist getting hurt, ever
severe elbow
I did really like Dural's sections.
vague scroll
I felt like his arrival on that distant colony that Jul escaped to originally in Glasslands was a generally weak opening to his character.
severe elbow
I think Forbeck's stregth/problem might be that he can excel at certain characters, but not others. He gets Buck, for example, which is part of why the writing is so different quality-wise between Legacy and his other books.
modest marsh
I don’t remember having any issues with Dural
severe elbow
It was interesting to see that Hesduros had actually been really screwed over by Jul and the New Covenant coming from there.
vague scroll
I think it was just me trying to ease into a character that I wasn't really feeling investment in.
feral perch
One thing I remember from vroefly picking up New Blood to give it a read was a reference to a soldier hiding his grief because of a buddy dying of cancer
vague scroll
Molly's introduction is probably the strongest part of the book in my opinion.
modest marsh
He’s Jul Mdama 2, easy peasy
vague scroll
At least Jul earned his place. This guy didn't do it for me. Not until the end anyway.
feral perch
But that doesn't make sense; Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian established that cancer is easily cured in the 26th century
feral perch
That's not the impression I got
modest marsh
Just because cancer is treatable doesn’t mean someone who has it isn’t already too sick to recover from it
feral perch
I need to go back and check Midnight again
severe elbow
I know it's easy to label Dural as Jul 2.0, but I feel like his character is significantly different from him, especially since he doesn't like his father.
modest marsh
Baird was an ODST on a state of the art UNSC vessel with regular medical examination
feral perch
I'm fairly certain it was treated as no big deal
modest marsh
I didn’t literally mean they’re the same character
vague scroll
In Heart, they said that not many people get it in contemporary times due to medical advancements. And they managed to fix him up real easy because the Smart AI caught it early.
modest marsh
Dural plays a similar role though
vague scroll
Cancer realistically, if its caught late, just can't be beaten since its the human body fighting itself.
modest marsh
The empathetical Elite who is a leader of a hostile force
severe elbow
I feel like that's too broad, IMO, otherwise 'Telcam is also the same.
modest marsh
Telcam was functionally a direct ally to the UNSC
vague scroll
Generally every Sangheili we've encountered with a POV has been fairly relatable.
So its not a very good distinction.
modest marsh
They’re usually military commanders within the Covenant
vague scroll
Dural was also militaristic.
vague scroll
Jul and Telcam were both introduced as leaders of smaller factions since the Covenant had broken up.
severe elbow
I wouldn't call Jul's Covenant that small, though. It's way larger than the Servants.
vague scroll
Sure Dural is leading a significantly smaller force but his role isn't different.
Smaller than the Covenant anyway.
severe elbow
Almost everything is smaller than the Covenant.
modest marsh
Jul’s group was small up to after his appearance in the books
severe elbow
Jul never really led a faction in the books, though. We just saw him starting up.
vague scroll
Their methodology was fundamentally different from the Covenant Sangheili we encountered before due to different motivations and such but they still fill a fairly similar through line.
modest marsh
And again, Telcam was an ally
Jul had earned leadership by the end of Thursday War, no?
vague scroll
That doesn't really define a character though, its what they act upon and with that makes them unique.
severe elbow
He basically told a bunch of Elites to follow him to Requiem. Nothing had really happened yet.
vague scroll
Dural plays a much different role from his fellow Remnant leaders.
vague scroll
He spent most of Thursday War isolated on a Forerunner shield world.
modest marsh
Yes, I’m aware
vague scroll
That isn't much of a leadership position.
His wife had more going for her in that regard as a "leader."
modest marsh
Jul followed an arc of gaining that leadership by learning from the humans
Dural follows a similar arc in trying to gain the trust and respect of his men
vague scroll
Anyway, we've gone astray on the topic, we were discussing whether all the "charaismatic enemy commander" trope was valid only to Dural or everyone.
I still say its everyone.
modest marsh
I don’t think that’s what I meant to illustrate at all
vague scroll
That's how it came off to me.
We can relate to Thel, we can relate to Jul, Telcam, etc. It's not unique to Dural.
I'd rather say Dural is unique because he has something to prove, living in the shadow of his father and hating him for it.
modest marsh
I think a strong point of emphasis is that both characters struggle to instill a sense of motivation and direction to their small group of men to work towards their goal
They’re underdog characters
vague scroll
I just think that saying Dural is the "empathetic leader of a enemy faction" is kind of limiting.
He's far more than that.
Like you said, underdog character.
modest marsh
It’s not fully articulated, no
I wouldn’t compare him to the shipmaster in Silent Storm for example
As his dynamics and conflicts are completely different
Jul and Dural’s are quite similar, however their approaches were antithetical
Jul wanted to deceive his peers
Dural wants to prove to them
severe elbow
I don't really agree with that. Jul's relationship with his men is rarely ever a focus outside of 'Nyon's rebellion. His main goals are political, and then made more personal later on. Dural's goals lie more in his faith and a goal, but him getting the Servants in line is more tied to his character arc in Legacy.
modest marsh
I don’t think that conflicts with my statements necessarily
Jul’s personal growth services his ability to grow his army, albeit mostly offscreen
feral perch
I would like to see more of the actual beginning of Jul's splinter Covenant
Honestly, 343i should have called them the Storm Covenant in canon, too.
Because A, it's cool and B, it distinguishes them from the original in a way that I personally think is better than "Jul's Covenant"
severe elbow
Well, they've called them New Covenant in a couple of places. I always use that.
feral perch
I suppose that's adequate. Not as cool though.
carmine sleet
Personally, I'd drop the "Covenant" part of Storm Covenant and just called them the Storm
severe elbow
Yeah. I see 343's logic in having their name just be Covenant, but it makes things unnecessarily confusing. It would be better for them to have two distinct names.
gilded mason
Indeed.
last anchor
Im sure the UNSC has different designatons for them. Or at least ONI does
severe elbow
We haven't seen them, if there are. Or at least not consistently.
Other than a couple of references of "New Covenant."
vague scroll
They're not even called the Storm, its a misnomer given by fans on the misunderstanding of Jul's Covenant Remnant being made up of mostly Sangheilis employing the Storm class harness.
gilded mason
Think the confusion first started in some game magazine.
obsidian thistle
Yep
obsidian thistle
A journalist saw Storm Rifle and Storm Elite and essentially assumed it was a faction and 343i shortly after clarified stuff. But by then Halo Follower had used it and continued to use it despite 343is clarification leading to community confusion.
That said the faction having no unique name didnt really help matters.
quiet dock
I mean, is it that bad to refer to it as the storm covenant?
gilded mason
It's harmless, just incorrect.
obsidian thistle
It annoys wiki editors like myself who revert edits on the wiki saying it.
vague scroll
^^
gilded mason
Oh man, people do that? Gosh.
quiet dock
It works because M'Dama's covenant is different structurally and religiously than the OG covenant
Canon name or not, its a name difference that helps clarify
vague scroll
But unreliable if you're in the fanfiction community or lore community because if you want to get something realistic from your work, who is honestly going to call themselves "Storm Covenant"?
severe elbow
That's why I stick with New Covenant. It's something.
vague scroll
That I think is more appropriate and sounds like something a human news network would designate it.
gilded mason
Covenant ~NEO~
vague scroll
Or Neo Covenant.
obsidian thistle
We on Halopedia use this
vague scroll
Kek. You are the one!
obsidian thistle
vague scroll
But yeah, I prefer the Halopedia designation.
quiet dock
Neo covenant works
obsidian thistle
Jul 'Mdama's Covenant
quiet dock
freakin narcissist
vague scroll
The Jul faction certainly won't call themselves Neo Covenant, that's for sure..
obsidian thistle
Well thankfully the faction has been effectively stopped.
gilded mason
As far we know. 😉
fair hazel
It definitely annoys me when people call it that
vague scroll
I still would have liked more from Jul, one of Halo 5's weak points but you know, its been beaten half to death by Halo critics.
wispy bough
Can we call the OG Covenant "Plasma Covenant"?
fair hazel
Haha
last anchor
Turns plasma rifle sideways
fair hazel
CIA. There’s also the covenant faction symbol and the wronguly used one wrongfully
obsidian thistle
Actually
Faction symbols are weird
We have no "100%" confirmed faction symbol/logo for the Covenant.
For all we know most symbols are fleet symbols.
vague scroll
Like he said, all of them are not the "official" crest.
limpid kernel
Bing 
wispy bough
Legit never seen that logo before
feral perch
I don't think that there's anything unrealistic about the Storm Covenant
vague scroll
There are a lot of Covenant symbols but none are "the one."
severe elbow
I've seen it on Halopedia before, not sure where in canon.
feral perch
It would be consistent anyway with the preference for cool factor over what's strictly "realistic"
gilded mason
@wispy bough
Seen it printed on the Ghost.
vague scroll
Cool factor stop being the main focus after Halo Reach and Bungie took their leave from the series.
feral perch
Not necessarily
lilac palm
Well to be fair there are a lot of crests for the emblem.
feral perch
The armor and design change in Halo 4 with accompanying weak explanations exists
That was surely for cool factor
vague scroll
I mean that lore has taken precedence.
lilac palm
@feral perch Definitely, You could explain chief but the Forward unto dawn looked different
feral perch
In some cases.
lilac palm
at least in the trailer
wispy bough
FUD looking different is non-canon for what it's worth.
lilac palm
@wispy bough Yup
vague scroll
343i already stated that FUD looks different because they were saving on game assets.
feral perch
Yeah.
wispy bough
H4A fix this 😄
mental nimbus
That's not quite the explanation though
feral perch
But BR85s and nanobots?
carmine sleet
Aye, the same reason Arbiter looks like a Halo 4/5 Elite during Halo 5
vague scroll
They couldn't get the first level's on the H3 model.
That's why.
The actual game space is over a kilometer in size.
mental nimbus
the artbook specifically says they redesigned the FuD because they didn't like it's design
mental nimbus
"amalgamation of boxes" is the specific wording IIRC
lilac palm
Well Huragok aqquired from onyx maybe tweaked things up a bit? Make the armour look more forerunner?
feral perch
Cool factor.
vague scroll
That too, the art book thing.
gilded mason
@lilac palm
What?
vague scroll
But yeah, the FUD model from Halo 3 can't accomodate the vacuum section.
feral perch
The most important thing is that book canon is now of equal importance with game canon
obsidian thistle
Oh that symbol... @lilac palm that is very likely not the covie logo. Especially since future vehicles have varied symbols on it.
feral perch
In principle, if not always in practice
lilac palm
@gilded mason When Kilo Five retrieved Halsey they aqquired technology that would help them win an already won war.
severe elbow
Well, we have instances of book canon taken precedence over game canon with the Forerunner Saga and Halo 4's Terminals, so there's that. That definitely wouldn't have happened under Bungie.
vague scroll
Because Bungie didn't care for external material, only pulling from where they felt they wanted to take something.
vague scroll
To make room for the play space.
feral perch
Why did the terminals even have discrepancies with the books though?
obsidian thistle
Oh that
vague scroll
There is a lot of wacky stuff in the Forerunner trilogy.
wispy bough
There's making room for the space, and making it like, bloody massive.
feral perch
Like...?
severe elbow
Because they came out before Silentium, in part.
mental nimbus
I guess you could speculate that it has something to do with Silentium's delay but w/e
severe elbow
Having two big things in a collaborative field match up can be real difficult.
feral perch
How important was Silentium?
severe elbow
Sometimes when mistakes or whatever happens it's too late to fix them.
Uh, pretty important.
vague scroll
Also that 343i has always given authors a degree of freedom with their writing.
last anchor
Most series do
wispy bough
Random question but what's the biggest plot hole that the universe has currently?
obsidian thistle
- Mistranslation.
- Domain connection broken and looped wrong info. (We see this in Halo 4s terminals)
- Mendicant Bias changed stuff.
- The records were always wrong?
I could be wrong in a few areas. But all that is possible for the Halo 3 terminals.
lilac palm
@gilded mason When Kilo Five retrieved Halsey they aqquired technology that would help them win an already won war.
feral perch
I meant the Halo 4 terminals..
obsidian thistle
And I need to update sources on that
last anchor
Send it up the chain of command
obsidian thistle
Get them more in-line with other stuff
gilded mason
@lilac palm
Yeah. I just don't don't get what that has to do with John's armor changing, if that was the point you were making.
wispy bough
good god - that's a lot of inconsistencies
gilded mason
Indeed.
last anchor
Its nothing compaired to Star Wars back in the day
severe elbow
Ol' George cared less about Star Wars' EU than Bungie did Halo's.
feral perch
Who prefers the CE-Reach Hog, and who prefers the 4-HW2 Hog?
gilded mason
The CE hog will always have my heart.
lilac palm
@gilded mason It doesn't it was referring to another point. Anyway. I never really liked the change of armour. But MJLONIR is full of surprises. Apparently it can change shape. It can also look like anything
last anchor
Isn the HW2 Hog technically the CE hog cause the Spirit had 2530 era Hogs aboard?
feral perch
Dunno
lilac palm
@last anchor Maybe
feral perch
But gameplay-wise
severe elbow
The Spirit can make anything with its factories if it has the blueprints.
feral perch
It's the one with railings and gas cans
severe elbow
Wouldn't it be the Reach 'Hog, anyway?
lilac palm
@feral perch In gameplay . Comparing Halo CE to Halo CE Annivesary we saw different weapons
Take the M90 shotgun replaced with the M45E
feral perch
Which is kinda dumb, having an easily exploitable weakness
lilac palm
Respectively
lilac palm
It combined the new and old artstyle @feral perch
feral perch
Yeah
lilac palm
I actually liked the way the new grunts were used as the suicide grunts. They look like abominations after all! @feral perch @last anchor
last anchor
True
wispy bough
Was there any good explanation given for the difference between New Mombasa in ODST and Halo 2?
feral perch
I guess
last anchor
Not that I remember
lilac palm
@wispy bough Do you mean the ODST armour in Halo 2 and Halo 3-Reach?
wispy bough
The entire city
lilac palm
the two different armours
severe elbow
A flimsy one of the player being in different sections in each game.
lilac palm
Oh that. No I cant think of any CANONICAL REASON but a spacish reason. Maybe time went faster on Installation 05?
severe elbow
H2A matches ODST more now, doesn't it?
last anchor
Definently
lilac palm
Slipstream space isn't exactly 'time'
wispy bough
I was under the impression that the location of the space elevator completely moves in ODST
Like its on its own island
mental nimbus
yeah
severe elbow
The canon explanation there is different ODSTs having different armor. The ones on the In Amber Clad are from a different unit than Alpha-Nine, for example.
lilac palm
@severe elbow Please. Tell me more.
severe elbow
I mean...that's it.
vague scroll
Then again, New Mombasa kind of doesn't fit real life Mombasa either.
lilac palm
Oh thanks @severe elbow
severe elbow
That's the only real explanation for armor and guns being different across games.
mental nimbus
H2A takes aesthetic elements from ODST but is still entirely different to ODST in shape
IIRC that one Reach map is also geographically inconsistent with both
lilac palm
@mental nimbus Yup
In halo there are mistakes. Take the fact that characters appear differently compared to past potrayals
last anchor
Its kinda funky
fair hazel
New Mombasa and current Mombasa have a different shape. But te the future
vague scroll
Future doesn't make land masses appear or disappear.
fair hazel
It means they can
lilac palm
That would make sense
limpid kernel
Current Mombasa??
lilac palm
hmm
fair hazel
Global warming foooding + adding land
lilac palm
maybe
Or the Data center or the Underground labs play a part. They are vast and large after all
fair hazel
Maybe? Even my city had had artificial islands added next to it and canals etc
vague scroll
They can but the design isn't perfect. They'd honestly have to move mountains of dirt.
fair hazel
That’d doable today...
lilac palm
@fair hazel @vague scroll Or consider my Idea about the Data Center
vague scroll
Not to that degree.
lilac palm
They could 'Stuff' the ground tho.
vague scroll
Stuff...?
lilac palm
as in place metal in it. like stuffing an animal. But its a stupid concept but one that is relevant.
I'm sorry
vague scroll
Id be more comfortable with an explanation that the sea rose and the city we see in Halo is simply they moved in land.
Mombasa is fairly low on the waterfront today.
fair hazel
There is land added and land not there in halo 2552
vague scroll
Its not a big deal, it doesn't change how I feel about the lore - that by loving it.
lilac palm
@fair hazel Considering the US of A is now nonexistant and now the URNA. A lot can happen in 500 years
vague scroll
However, I like looking for more practical explanations than just dumping some soil. Boston crushed one of its iconic hills to expand their airport. Compared to the amount of land shifted there which is so very minute, I have serious reason to doubt anyone can move that much dirt.
mental nimbus
idk
fair hazel
.... except it’s being done in real life already
mental nimbus
tokyo bay-esque landfills maybe?
lilac palm
@mental nimbus I don't think dirt would be wasted making a artificial remote. Flat land.
remote spruce
They imported dirt from Harvest /s
lilac palm
@remote spruce Good Idea.
But that's a lot of dirt. I also think Mack would question why a lot of dirt would be moved when it could be used for farming and feeding billions
severe elbow
"But it's our dirt!"
fair hazel
Notre Dame Island was built in ten months from 15 million tons of rock excavated for the Montreal Metro underground rail in 1965. It was created for Expo 67 to celebrate Canada's centennial.
vague scroll
My point is this. The land behind the central island in Mombasa bay disappeared completely.
vague scroll
That land is higher than the island.
mental nimbus
are you sure that it's not there and not just not modelled for conveniences sake?
fair hazel
Humanity can terraform to a degree and deglass planets. They might not be forerunners but they can certainly do some geo engineering
mental nimbus
You don't really get that good of a look on the way in and the next time you see that area from above it's basically melting
vague scroll
Oh its modeled with a freedom of artist expression, that's no issue. Its just trying to find a reasonable story reason for it.
fair hazel
Already gave the Reasons why new Mombasa would look different from current Mombasa
vague scroll
Doesn't explain why since its a heavy residental area irl.
I'm arguing something that isn't really an issue but I still would like something with a little more grounding.
lilac palm
@vague scroll Data center underneath the city?
Suggested before but think of the alterations to the ground
vague scroll
Im honestly not sure how to explain that one but that does give credence to your stuffing theory.
I think something like a past war would be the most practical reason, one with nukes, that could have sank such large stretches of earth.
Erickyboo's thing about moving so much Earth would then make a lot of sense.
Could also explain the geofront beneath Alpha Site.
mental nimbus
I wouldn't describe the data centre as a geofront, it's just an underground complex
it's not some kind of underground residential complex
vague scroll
Geofront is more a term i use to describe the scale than purpose.
Last time I played ODST i remember that area being pretty massive
mental nimbus
fair enough
vague scroll
Correct me if I'm wrong about the scale. I could of sworn you couldn't see the bottom of the data center.
vague scroll
Okay, that makes me want to think of my nuke theory more now...
mental nimbus
ironically enough the term "geofront" was an english word coined in Japan based on "waterfront"
it's like a waterfront but underground
vague scroll
Oh, didn't know that. Thats pretty cool.
versed helm
Late to the party, but I completely agree that Envoy demonstrated post-war relationships much more realistically.
Envoy is one of my favorite books not only in the Halo canon, but across all my readings. It's a great read from start to finish. (I listened to it on Audible, and the narration was phenomenal).
Hell, I'd go so far as to say Hunters in the Dark did a better job than Legacy of Onyx, and I did not enjoy Hunters in the Dark.
gilded mason
I wasn't a fan of Envoy's way, which was basically "we'll go on this side of the line, and your species will live on the other side." It felt like a pretty pessimistic view.
versed helm
Yeah I mean, I'm not sure what else you would expect after one species spent nearly 30 years attempting kill every single member of the other species.
"Hey, I bet you were on the ship that glassed my grandparents planet! Wassup my guy?"
gilded mason
That's the thing. It wasn't the whole species. Only a percentage of Sangheili actually fought the humans.
versed helm
Yeah, millions.
Only a percentage of Germans killed Jews in WW2, did the Jews want to move back into Germany right after the war ended? Nah.
gilded mason
Some did.
versed helm
I have no problem with Human-Sanghelli cooperation, and it's believable to me. But, I simply do not think Humans, nor Elites would want to coexist mere years after the end of a three decade war.
If it was, say 30-40 years later, I could totally believe relations had reached that point. But, not a few years post war.
gilded mason
That relates to another point I remembered: I wish things were, like, decades after the war to also help faciliate things like that. But with 343 only making it a few years later, they'll have to make relations go better, otherwise when will we see better cooperation?
versed helm
Yeah, I agree that it was a mistake to continue a few years after the end of the war.
I would've liked at least a decade wide gap.
gilded mason
Because otherwise, we'll keep seeing the same stories of "Aliens and humans begin to sorta get along after not liking each other" .
versed helm
Frankly I think Halo needs a soft-reboot.
End Master Chief's story ASAP and jump 15-20 years into the future in-universe.
gilded mason
Agreed.
obsidian thistle
Why not something past 2610...
Something thats only restrictions is what came before. Not what is to come
gilded mason
As in, something far enough away that you could still tell stories in the current timeline without it basically being "spoiled"?
obsidian thistle
Yep.
Thanks to Halo Reach and Halo 3s Believe a lot of the risk to humanity is negated by us knowing humanity lives.
Kinda funny tbh. XD
versed helm
I would love that.
I recently played the new God of War and was blown away by the quality of the game compared to the originals. I think if 343i could pull off something similar with the Halo universe, it would do wonders for the franchise.
Not saying I wan't Halo to become a 3rd person RPG, but I'd like to see a leap in the quality of the games.
An innovative leap, at that.
gilded mason
I'd love to see more variety in genres
versed helm
I would do some weird things if it ensured Halo got a quality RPG where you play as a member of an ONI team conducting missions all across the Galaxy.
Like Kilo-Nine, but good.
gilded mason
Or perhaps an ARPG where you play as an Arbiter.
versed helm
Yes please.
severe elbow
I would like more spinoffs.
feral perch
@versed helm Yes! I agree thoroughly with you on Envoy. I felt like I was playing one of the games while reading it.
severe elbow
I enjoyed Envoy but I feel like the pacing was off in some parts, especially the end. I think it would have worked really well as two books, maybe.
feral perch
I know what you mean. The chase at the end?
severe elbow
The whole action scene, yeah. And the resolution was rushed.
Not trying to sound to down on it. I did like the book.
remote spruce
when there were 2 other elites remaining but the author forgot about them
fair hazel
i really liked envoy too
charred flower
whats the fastest time you've read a Halo novel?
hasty geyser
I think I read the fall of reach in less than a day
But that was a long time ago and I don't remember exactly
charred flower
wow
I read that one in a few days back then. same with the other first four books
hasty geyser
I think I read TFoR before Halo Reach came out monkaS
charred flower
I read Fall of Reach like 11 years ago
one of the first times or the first time. Wait...was somewhere around 2007-8
hasty geyser
Do you still have your copy
charred flower
yep
narrow wadi
I need to ask something.
Someone on Reddit was theorising that the humans should have let Truth fire the rings cuz it would have wiped out the covenant and, due to 04 being destroyed, it would have left earth alone due to the fact that the ring in human space was gone.
Would Earth have been wiped out if the Rings fired in 3? I’m curious.
hasty geyser
I-01 is also in the Orion Arm
narrow wadi
Is that where human space is?
narrow wadi
Ah, I gotcha.
obsidian thistle
Yea even then should humanity be judge, jury, and executioner of countless innocent species.
As remember we didnt just save Humanity in Halo 3. We saved the Covies. We saved the Covie fringe. We saved the unknown species we havent properly met yet
narrow wadi
I wasn’t arguing that.
Heck, in the argument itself I was on the side of “don’t fire the rings”, I just had to ask cuz it made me curious
limpid kernel
"Stop the rings, save the rest"
severe elbow
I read The Cole Protocol in one day. I'm not usually that swift.
fair hazel
I like tend to get them at midnight when they release. Then read the books until I’m done. Then sleep if there’s time.
severe elbow
Depends how busy I am. Even when I get books on release, sometimes I'll sit on them for a while. I got Battle Born the day after release and still haven't started it.
full forge
I like the audiobooks because the narration makes it last longer for me, and I can understand better what's going on since I'm not reading faster than I should.
Also the narrators are like, really talented.
severe elbow
I need to actually read so I can see the sentence structure and stuff.
wispy bough
Which was the book where 343 GS's voice actor narrated the whole book and when Chakas was revealed at 343 GS, he slowly changed his voice?
severe elbow
Primordium.
wispy bough
That right there is audio book 🔥
narrow wadi
I own a TONNE of Halo books that I haven’t read.
Like, 5 or 6 of them.
obsidian thistle
Primordium is the only book I recommend the Audiobook over the physical cause of the voice actor.
lilac palm
Does anyone want to talk about the GEN 3 Platform?
or has that already been discussed?
turbid lintel
as in the nextbox? probably best for #general-chat
severe elbow
No, he's talking about MJOLNIR Gen 3.
turbid lintel
my bad
modest marsh
There isn’t much to go on, we could speculate infinitely
The Field guide implies class-based equipment and abilities, thus we might see some implementation of Destiny or battlefield style mechanics
This would correlate with the RPG-oriented senior design position they have need for
Thus we might see stuff like armor variants suiting specific tasks
Collateral Damage and Silent Storm for example heavily emphasize that the armor worn by the Spartans is designed for stealth infiltration in mind
On that note, I think we can safely assume that lore wise there will be a lot of correlative information to discuss once they finally show off some gameplay
But until then I doubt they will divulge anything
For the most part, the armor variants themselves haven’t really done their job in communicating to the audience that they let the Spartan do their job better, and i think that’s somewhat tied to the fact there’s no tangible gameplay difference
All of this fancy flavor text promising neat little features and mechanical advantages, yet it’s substantiated by nothing
As an example, Locke’s HUNTER class MJOLNIR supposedly has some form of enhanced sensor and tracking suite, which is sensible given his field of expertise, but then gameplay wise he can...hold 3 frag grenades?
Doesn’t really communicate to the player that the armor he’s wearing is rare or special in anyway despite it being told that it is
At best, it comes with ARTEMIS, but then, all of Osiris has ARTEMIS, which isn’t particularly useful as a tool to the player anyway
versed helm
I strongly oppose armor defining your abilities and/or strengths
It’s just another way of creating a meta
turbid lintel
@versed helm what about if those armors/abilities were only available in one game mode?
versed helm
I want to wear what I want to wear because of how it looks, not what it does
I have that issue with destiny
Destiny 2 offers horrid armor with good stats, so I have to choose between looking good or performing better
I’d rather not have that be a thing at all
turbid lintel
Like, you could wear any armor you like in all the normal pvp modes, and it would simply be a cosmetic, but then if you enter a specific playlist/game mode in pvp then the abilities are active
versed helm
And what would that mode/playlist be like?
turbid lintel
I dunno? like Warzone for instance
all those crazy weapons are only available there (except for fiesta now of course)
modest marsh
I agree with the meta issues
To be clear, I am not for gameplay differences between players
versed helm
Seems like too much for something that goes against core halo values
Fair playing field for everyone. No bloom, no recoil (mostly) just a battle of how good your thumbs are
modest marsh
But you have to admit this is the direction Halo has been heading in since Reach and only just reverted from in 5
versed helm
Because they chased a more competitive halo
modest marsh
Yes
versed helm
And I’m sure they will continue to level the field in infinite
modest marsh
The compromise was Warzone
turbid lintel
@versed helm I think that's ultimately best for the main pvp. But why not have one mode where it's a little different? It wouldn't be part of the competitive scene, but it would allow for a different experience and an expansion of the gameplay opportunities
versed helm
Warzone was more of a play on how bombastic they can make a game mode in my eyes
Because it pulls population from other playlists
modest marsh
Armor mods exist as to create a (albeit incredibly minor) power difference between players to better suit a specific game style, comparable to how Spartans have their own intended roles
versed helm
It would be like the Blitz equivalent of HW2
turbid lintel
is that an issue though? especially when the game is new? and especially if the game is awesome?
versed helm
Every game has high population at launch. That doesn’t mean you fill it with 20 playlists
modest marsh
Linda’s only difference being she has a motion tracker while scoped is a sensible gameplay difference, but it also feels like a half measure change
The only character who feels like they had an appropriate gameplay difference was Kelly
turbid lintel
I totally agree with you Destiny point, by the way. Some friends of mine play it a ton and they feel like the PVP can't ever be highly competitive because of all the armors and guns. They should have made a single pvp playlist where everyone gets default white gear, and then it's all skill based.
modest marsh
How would you feel about Master Chief using different armor variants over the course of the campaign?
versed helm
Let’s move this convo to #483759756566069258
turbid lintel
👍
fair hazel
the UNSC is the military scientific and exploratory branch of the UEG
fresh otter
i know theyre not communist because they fought against them
oh
well what government is the UEG?
oh, i just found a source, representative democracy
last anchor
Technically I think the UNSC handles SOME of the scientific but there's private and scholastic stuff
hasty geyser
During the war humanity was a military junta
Because you know, genocidal war and all
modest marsh
The UEG is largely a representative democracy with a heavily capitalist economic structure
Under the UNSC, many of their constituents live under fascist/authoritarian policies
It’s pretty unapologetically a surveillance state where a person’s individual rights are ignored if it is believed to give the government some imperative strategic benefit, up to and including execution, imprisonment, and other extreme penalties
gilded mason
Basically.
modest marsh
It makes matters worse when you consider the fact that a sizable chunk of the military is dedicated to controlling the flow of information and can act with next to no accountability
gilded mason
It makes sense for some outer colonies to want to escape a government that doesn't hold their interests in mind.
modest marsh
The supposedly democratic government is anything but when you have a fleet of puppeteers that actively meddle in civilian matters
charred flower
Sounds like Parangosky and Serin need to shift into a capitalist society like the UEG
vague scroll
I mean, Parangosky is garenteed to be dead at this point or in a retirement home. She was only shy of 100 in 2552 if not past that by 2558.
agile lotus
If ONI was abolished, what would change, in the Halo universe?
wraith pecan
i thought Parangosky age was unknown the books did say she looked younger then she actually was
or was it the other way around
modest marsh
Cryogenics skews things, especially for a navy officer like Parangosky
last anchor
As do organ cloning-replacement
vague scroll
@wraith pecan We know she was born in 2461
She's definitely closing in on a century.
And there comes a point where cryostasis will likely just kill a person since its freezing of cells. Organisms were not intended to be frozen and iciles were never intended to form in our cells and body cavities...
modest marsh
I mean, the SoF crew were on ice for nearly 30 years with outdated technology
vague scroll
That's one thing. I mean that Parangosky has spent most of her career behind a desk, not a wall popsicle.
And the books do describe her as looking like something out of a Tolkien novel living under a mountain.
hasty geyser
Parangosky has always looked older than she really is
vague scroll
Yeah but pushing 100 is still pushing 100.
hasty geyser
In the 26th century with medical tech like flash cloning organs
grim path
What the ffff
vague scroll
Flash cloning organs won't stop old age, only thing that theoretically could do that is by extending the telomeres of an organism's cells as they age and deteriote from cellular division.
wraith pecan
Do we know how long life has been extended in the 26th century
vague scroll
Nope. Though generally I believe Mythos suggested its about 150 range.
fair hazel
Spartans can theoretically be like a hundred and still be fine
charred flower
🤔
last anchor
Older most likely especially if they spend much time in cryo, which they probably DO
versed helm
Average lifespan would drop precipitously due to covenant assaults and bombardments. The fact that the average is still within our range is incredible, unless it's just an oversight by 343
But it still has some stability, though, if we have a look at examples such as Paragonsky
vague scroll
Spartans have been described to having an uncapped lifespan due to augmentations so they're already an exception.
No one knows when they'll flake off and die.
spiral jewel
So it's possible that someone could throw a 100th birthday party or something for the remaining S2's? I don't know who would host it. But it'd probably be spectacular.
versed helm
^
ocean relic
has arbiter been shown to be on par with chief power wise? what bout johnson?
gilded mason
There's never been a direct comparison for John and Thel. And Johnson is not near their strength level.
At least, not something not-gameplay-wise, for the former.
modest marsh
You’re gonna need to be more specific
Taken at face value, Thel in the games is slower than Chief by a wide margin and doesn’t do much that’s really physically impressive
unique rune
He's talking about Dragonball power levels. Someone check the scouter.
gilded mason
Thel in the games is slower than Chief by a wide margin
What do you mean?
modest marsh
He gets shot a lot when he has ample time to evade
Spartans in general are nimble enough to avoid at least plasma fire most of the time
gilded mason
Though John also got shot in a cutscene as well.
gilded mason
Wait, which cutscene were you thinking of regarding Thel?
modest marsh
Oracle
When the Heretic shoots at him and he just kinda runs backward without even trying to evade
gilded mason
Ah. Just watched it. Looks like he kinda just jogs away.
modest marsh
Chief usually gets hit with particle beams in cutscenes, which are next to impossible to dodge
gilded mason
Though I guess the same could be said for John's reaction time, since he got a needler in High Charity and never shot it at Truth for the several seconds they were face to face.
gilded mason
Hm? He teleported onto High charity, said 'boo' to that grunt, and took his needler.
modest marsh
Truth left by the time he had a weapon
Besides, a needler wouldn’t have done anything
Truth’s throne is shielded
gilded mason
Truth left by the time he had a weapon
Just watched it, he had the needler already. Though yeah, shielding might be an issue.
modest marsh
For some reason I remembered otherwise, dang
gilded mason
Yeah, memory can be fickle sometimes. Also, just checked out the Maw cutscene to double-check, and it feels like John takes his sweet time to get to cover after the sentinels appear and after he starts getting shot. So it kinda just feels like the cutscenes don't really show the true extent of what those two can do.
remote spruce
remember that Maw cutscene had an animation glitch
gilded mason
Oh?
remote spruce
in the dev commentary, they say chief's arm stretched
"what glitch number was that?"
"ship it"
gilded mason
Ah, the scene I watched didn't seem to have anything like that.
modest marsh
Anniversary or what?
In the original cutscene he’s in the middle of grabbing Cortana
remote spruce
no wait
gilded mason
This was the scene I was looking at:
https://youtu.be/QNfE0FRSpD4?t=1m53s
Though it does seem to have some slight differences with the classic graphics.
modest marsh
Yeah that’s not what happens in the original scene
I think using CE as a metric for the athleticism of Spartans is misleading anyway when the devs, mainly Staten, were fairly open about the animations being low quality by their own standards
versed helm
In the Forerunner Saga, it's revealed that both us Humanity and the Forerunners were created by the Precursors. My question is, do you think the other species; Sangheili, San'Shyuum, Unggoy, Kig-Yar, Jiralhanae, Lekgolo, Yanme'e, and Yonhet were also created by the Precursors? I myself am unsure. I'm of the mindset that the Precursors created the Universe, so thus all life that springs up and evolves is a creation of theirs, but I'm talking direct creation and directing evolution.
unique rune
again with the massive block of text ctrl+v'd from Reddit and Waypoint
obsidian thistle
I'm in the mindset that the Precursors probably didnt create the universe.
versed helm
With them likely existing outside the Universe, I wouldn't be shocked with them being billions of years more advanced than everyone else, I wouldn't be too shocked.
unique rune
You said "I wouldn't be shocked" twice.
versed helm
True dat! @unique rune Woopsies XD
spiral lily
Is Halo Legends canon?
carmine sleet
All of it is apart from Odd One Out
gilded mason
The overall stories, though not the artstyle.
carmine sleet
Of course
spiral lily
Even the package ?
gilded mason
Nope, Halsey truly was a young blonde woman at the age of 52.
spiral lily
@obsidian thistle I was doing some research and came upon the Spartan list on Halopedia
Saw a note about Nicole-458
spiral lily
And then watched a video by GameCheat which said she was a Spartan II Class II
Not game cheat
Generalheed
obsidian thistle
We dont know what her canon spartan class is.
obsidian thistle
Her non-canon spartan Class is the canon "Spartan-II Class 2"
spiral lily
Hm
obsidian thistle
Which the DOB does line up
spiral lily
But in canon Spartan-II Class 2 was disbanded
And she’s a whole 20 years younger than John
so confusion
gilded mason
Remember, don't tag 343 employees.
spiral lily
oh mb
remote spruce
I don't think he knows anyway
obsidian thistle
@spiral lily nothing in canon has 100% ruled out Class 2.
And yea dont tag 343i emps please. It be in our rules.
clever fable
I wonder where they can really go with that. I haven't looked at all the dates, but that part of the setting feels a little cramped to me right now with regards to secret super soldier spartan projects all hiding under/from one another. S2's as the baseline, then hiding the S3's from even that, and then development on S4's getting started not long after that. Throwing in Class 2 with all of that going on around then would be difficult to pull off in a satisfying way imo.
spiral lily
I mean
Either do that or retcon Nicole
I’d say retcon since she was only present in a non-halo game once.
clever fable
It's always on the table, I just assume that trying to canonize as much as absolutely possible is 343i's MO.
obsidian thistle
Its crampt. Halsey may not even be fully involved due to her dismissal and obvious unhappiness with the candidates. But Class 2 has never been 100% declaired non-canon.
feral perch
can you guys believe that Microsoft wanted Bungie to change the "Master Chief" to the "Commando?"
unique rune
remember how The Fall of Reach almost didn't exist
versed helm
Lol
hasty geyser
How vulnerable are Forerunners when they leave their personal armour?
vague scroll
In what context?
Forerunners are masters of genetic manipulation, they could theoretically become whatever they want, just short of being shapeshifters.
hasty geyser
Like when Bornstellar leaves his personal armour and has a severe reaction when Chakas(?) touches him
vague scroll
Hmm, could be a case-by-case scenario.
hasty geyser
True
vague scroll
In the Halo 4 terminals, the Librarian shot the Ur-Didact with a Binary Rifle while he was out of armor and all it did was make him collapse into unconsciousness.
hasty geyser
I imagine a fully fledged Promethean would be a lot more okay if they left their personal armour for whatever reason
vague scroll
Well yeah, like I said, it depends on the situation and circumstances.
Too many variables for a solid answer
versed helm
@hasty geyser It's more of a sensitivity due to feeling exposed more than any biological vulnerability
though they're definitely weaker, relative to their armour
obviously
hasty geyser
Mhm okay
versed helm
I think it was actually an extension of what was established for Spartan-IIs
they likewise feel exposed out of their armour
versed helm
Good luck!
chrome copper
I wanna kniw something
In halo reach the spartan 2 program was newly finished (as given from the fall of reach) so how come the spartan 3 program was already finsihed if spartan 2 had just ended with the fall of reach
narrow wadi
Spartan-II was not new by the point of Reach's fall
It had been around for a pretty long time even by then
MJOLNIR was new, as was Cortana, but the Spartans themselves were not
brisk cape
2511 was the start of the Spartan-II project with augmentation taking place 2525. So there’s a ~27 year gap between their augmentations and Reach’s fall.
chrome copper
But didnt master chief get newly suited up with the armor as they first came in cintact with the covenant
I thought he was among the first spartan 2s
clear wren
I think all spartan iis got their armor at the same time.
brisk cape
All 2s got their armor at the same time. 117 was just the first to try it during the field exercise that Ackerson rigged in an attempt to kill/disable him & Cortana.
chrome copper
So that means that all S2s got their armor just before the fall of reach?
If yes then as bloodmoonsaid thay mjolnir was new, how come the spartan 3s got their armor right after that?
I mean before reach even fell
unique rune
The Spartan-IIs were issued Mark IV armor all the way back in 2525, long before the Fall of Reach. Initial models of Mark V first saw use in 2551, issued to some Spartan-IIs and Spartan-IIIs.
And then a later version of Mark V was deployed in preparation for Operation: RED FLAG in 2552.
chrome copper
But is there any explanation as to why spartan 3 was started even tho spartan 2 was still undergoing development
unique rune
Uh. What.
Spartan-II was essentially over after all of its candidates were deployed for actual combat.
chrome copper
Oh
unique rune
MJOLNIR was a concurrently-running project that continued development even after S-II and S-III.
chrome copper
But we see spartan 3 in halo reach... so does thatmean that the S3 program had been conducted before the covenants attack on harvest?
unique rune
Spartan-III began development after notable successes by the Spartan-IIs.
No. Spartan-III wasn’t initiated until after the Human-Covenant War began due to how effective Spartan-IIs were noted to be against Covenant forces.
carmine sleet
The S-IIIs were created as a response to the Covies as they didn't have enough candidates at the right age to do a second class of S-IIs and because a rival of Halsey wanted to do his own version of the Spartans
That's the simplest version of it
carmine sleet
I recommend reading Ghosts of Onyx to learn more about the S-IIIs
chrome copper
Sure
brisk cape
The MkV that was deployed in prep of Op: Red Flag had the ability to carry a smart AI in order to crack any encryption the Covenant may have had. But it was in use before then as Nova pointed out earlier.
fair hazel
Loooks like a big@timeline confusion
narrow wadi
Is First Strike an essential read for canon? I’m aware of how little bungie cared for the books canon and how stuff is contradicted a lot, so I want to check
unique rune
It explains a decent bit of what happened in between CE and 2, so I'd definitely recommend that you read it.
narrow wadi
I’m... up to the bit where John and the ODSTs/Johnson are on their way to Reach?
Johnson is perfect and Engineers are good, I’m just not... feeling compelled to read it
obsidian thistle
Its important in that it explains how a large amount of Spartan-IIs even survived Reach at all.
*FYI it involves time bending shenanigans
narrow wadi
Time Bending... wit
*wut
Time... Bending... Shenanigans
Okay now I’m even more confused
gilded mason
It will make sense if you read it. Or a synopsis.
narrow wadi
I gotcha
obsidian thistle
Lets not introduce you to ILBs right now xD That gets wild.
vague scroll
@narrow wadi Time dilation. Slipspace doesn't work like regular space so the passage of time isn't consistent inside slipspace compared to real space. Basic science fiction stuff.
narrow wadi
I gotcha.
ripe shard
hello
keen ravine
As seen in this
This appears to be a Hunter infected by the flood...
but I thought that isn't possible...
gilded mason
I cannot access the image
unique rune
Um. That link ain't working for me.
keen ravine
oree
feral perch
me neither
keen ravine
lemme try in Share content
ree
Yeah. Discord's being a [Expletive]
Just think back to the Origins II Flood scene
unique rune
Legends
gilded mason
Oh. This is a Legends screenshot?
unique rune
Well, there's your problem.
gilded mason
Yep
unique rune
The visuals from Legends are iffy, canonically.
keen ravine
oh
XD
Still, the Hunter-Flood is better than that four-legged ox thing on the Mona Lisa
has anyone else read that Comic?
With the Mona Lisa Flood experiments?
gilded mason
The motion comic, yeah. Though I never actually read the novel-version.
unique rune
I read the original text version in Evolutions. Never tried the motion comics.
keen ravine
the Four Legged Ox thing is cool
seems like something that a Alien from Alien Isolation might've been
@unique rune you totally should
I could send you a screenshot of one of the creatures
unique rune
If I have time at some point in the future, I'll look into 'em.
keen ravine
Do you wish to see the screenshot?
unique rune
Sure, why not.
keen ravine
I'll DM it.
subtle depot
If air filters are important for Spartans fighting the flood to prevent infections via spore why doesn’t the arbiter suffer any effects from the air
vague scroll
Gameplay inconsistency.
remote spruce
arby held his breath /s
remote spruce
yea pretty sure grunts can use SMGs in lore but not in halo 2 for some reason
vague scroll
Do i also have to explain again the reason why all organic life is infectable by the Flood?
fair hazel
spores in the air and breathing and infection arent as instant death as someone like hidden xperia would make it out to be
subtle depot
Lol
fair hazel
especialyl early on
subtle depot
I just asked it because I watched his one video
vague scroll
They aren't. But like the supercells, they're also a means of effective infection vector. Just the slowest of means.
subtle depot
Thanks though
vague scroll
HiddenXperia is goof for an entry level understanding of Halo lore.
subtle depot
I wanted to have a canon explanation because inconsistencies bother me
vague scroll
But if you want indepth, read Halopedia wiki entries.
subtle depot
Yeah I’ve started doing that
vague scroll
Really the only place you'll get the solid info.
People will come up with headcanons to explain stuff by intuition like me but its not reliable lore wise.
Just keep an open mind that lore will always have some inconsistencies.
remote spruce
thought hiddenxperia was good
note: never watched his videos after 2017
vague scroll
He's good. Easily the best on the YT scene but he's imperfect since he's only one guy.
He has to rely on wikis like the rest of us and even then, navigating Halo lore is a tough job.
A lot of things don't clearly line up.
versed helm
CIA for youtube
orchid kettle
Ya know, I think I realize why the Flood and Prometheans just dont stick with people as well as the Covenant do. Despite the former two technically being stronger forces
And I think its mainly because the Covenant are made up of characters that live in this universe
Compared to an army of zombies or robots that are just an extension of one character
You may not know the name of every Grunt and Jackal you're mowing down in the games, but I think you're naturally going to be a little more invested in an entity if its running away while begging for its life
quiet dock
At some level I think you’re right
The covenant are actually sentient beings that behave in ways we relate to, even if it’s as little as commanding a squad, running away panicking, or hiding behind a shield
I like the way you think
gentle magnet
hiddenx is good but has been mostly talking bout the flood
clever fable
Clearly he has been turned by the logic plague, and is just trying to prep us for their arrival by spreading the 'good word'.
vague scroll
Hiddenxperia trying to start a Cortana cult? Find out more on this episode of Canon Fodder, Full Disclosure edition.
versed helm
Cortana is based and redpilled.
Cortana is the best hope for bringing peace to the galaxy. Even if that means a crazy, insane, autocratic despot ruling over you with impunity for the foreseeable future.
I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords
unique rune
last anchor
Well alright then
brisk cape
Liberty or nothing.
keen ravine
WAit
So. if all but Odd one out are Canon
then there IS A canon Flood-Hunter floating around out there?
unique rune
Maybe, maybe not.
The visuals of Legends are... questionable, canonically.
All of the events that take place are canon, but the way they look may not be 100% accurate.
keen ravine
I think I still need to dive deeper to see if that Thing I think is a hunter is a hunter
Plus good Gott, UNSC Mess halls have a ton of foods
and then ODSTs get the standard assorted artworks
obsidian thistle
Halo: Legends "Origins" visuals are Cortanas interpretation. Aka canon but not accurate at all.
So any Flood forms and so on in that are subject to being Cortanas imagination
@keen ravine
obsidian thistle
Same thing.
keen ravine
Although... If there was a Hunter-Flood. UNSC/ONI has a image somewhere
or who knows
in the Mona Lisa Comic that four legged thing could've been a hunter
obsidian thistle
"Origins II" has the same caveat with Cortanas imagination.
keen ravine
oof
obsidian thistle
Seeing as stuff happens in it that hasnt/cant happened (or was gonna happen later thanks to 343i planning ahead)
obsidian thistle
Lekgolo cant be infected in normal means.
versed helm
Not in the way you want
obsidian thistle
They can be used as biomass.
versed helm
They lack a central nervous system (?)
So they can’t be controlled
(Is that right lore man)
keen ravine
I think
Well, I'm not going to ask the youtuber who has a flood fetish
I don't have the lack of brain cells to enter that
Also
is a ONI Prowler really that powerful
literally able to "Annihilate" a whole covenant fleet?
modest marsh
No lol
A prowler has little to no offensive capabilities to speak of
They might have like
Mines
modest marsh
But no missiles or cannons capable of taking out much larger ships
keen ravine
how might they defeat a whole Covenant Fleet
modest marsh
That wasn’t a standard prowler
keen ravine
Still how?!
modest marsh
And it isn’t indicated how they were going to destroy the fleet
fair hazel
black hole bomb? what fan fiction did you take that from?
Prowlers advantages are nukes and nuke fields
keen ravine
@fair hazel I blame Kurzgesagt
modest marsh
It’s worth noting their shields were also down
Making them significantly more vulnerable to surprise attack
keen ravine
True
but if the time running out did happen
they'd have their shields up
so still. HOW?!
fair hazel
time actually did run out
keen ravine
True. But where's the somehow high-death weapon the ONI Prowler has
fair hazel
what?
keen ravine
@rustic jackal dead bodies
fair hazel
like death..
keen ravine
since flood is basically dead bodies
rustic jackal
no like the infection forms
keen ravine
so go to your neighbour hood morge if you want to try some flood
@rustic jackal still dead bodies
rustic jackal
we were talking about it in genaral then sam said go here
keen ravine
since flood biomass + other things is literally just dead bodies
unique rune
They taste like getting infected and dying a horrible death.
rustic jackal
yeah but if you fry em up real nice i bet they taste like gormet chicken
keen ravine
Boi
Death
Death
More Death
ANd probly tasting like Pestilence from Supernatural
and that guy has a swarm of flies around him
or is it Disease?
rustic jackal
what would the primordal taste like
rustic jackal
you know the last precusor
rustic jackal
precusors prob tastte like samon
rustic jackal
that why forunner hunted them
fair hazel
Solar void. go into #483750526497062925 please, thank you
versed helm
@fair hazel he can’t see that channel
fair hazel
keep trying
rustic jackal
i cant find it fam
fair hazel
keep trying...
rustic jackal
dude that channel is a dead as appleclutter i cant find it
keen ravine
a weapon that can somehow entirely destroy a Covenant Fleet
modest marsh
I think he’s talking about the energy weapon that destroyed the Seraph fighters
keen ravine
No not that
unique rune
@coarse scarab The Huragok were artificially created by the Forerunners. They can "reproduce" given the right materials and enough preexisting individuals (at least 3, I believe).
keen ravine
I'm talking about during the briefing
modest marsh
They never said anything about a weapon that can destroy fleets
coarse scarab
Oh cool thanks for the lore
keen ravine
Well they said: they'll terminate the fleet, the team and the package if the time runs out
modest marsh
Yes
keen ravine
so unless they mean crippling
modest marsh
There are other ways to destroy a fleet than with a super weapon
fair hazel
they probably deployed a few many hornet mines in the path
gilded mason
And it'd make you wonder why they don't do that more often.
modest marsh
Because it was an extremely rare circumstance
fair hazel
they need the opportunity
gilded mason
So they never got that opportunity during the war, then.
modest marsh
If I recall correctly the fleet had just finished glassing a planet and much of their resources were expended
Nobody said this was the only time it happened
It’s just incredibly unlikely
strange drum
what if noble 6 was infected by the flood and tried to kill chief?
that would be neat
unique rune
would it really
strange drum
id play that campaign
spiral lily
I’ve been rereading the halo books
And is it just me, or does Fall of Reach and Silent Storm hugely contradict each other?
modest marsh
How
Seems to me the author paid very close attention to the Fall of Reach
Given they’re the two closest books chronologically and all
obsidian thistle
It only contradicts the og version of the book which was replaced by the 2010 version.
gilded mason
So which aspects did you note to be contradictory, Shahik?
obsidian thistle
If I am right its probably the Johnson stuff. Which isnt really a contradiction. More so cause TFoR never said it was their first meeting.
modest marsh
It would’ve been out of character had John externalized any familiarity between them
Especially given the extreme circumstances
torpid sonnet
Does flood carriers feel pain when they pop? something i have been thinking about
obsidian thistle
Tbh a whole load of questions can be asked regarding that.
versed helm
I remember a convo on this before
Something about yes but they ignore it
Because humans are taught to react to pain or injury
Something like that
torpid sonnet
maybe flood forms inject something that makes them not feel pain
when turned
like paralized
versed helm
Hit me with the facts lore man
torpid sonnet
lore man B)
obsidian thistle
Well the host does feel dramatic pain normally. But that was from recently awoken flood on Alpha Halo
And not Carrier forms.
obsidian thistle
The hosts soul in a sense may also be absorbed by all means.
There was a few theories that go like this. If a Gravemind is formed. Anything infected dead or alives memories can be recovered at will by the Gravemind given them a fate worse than death.
versed helm
Tourture. For the soul
obsidian thistle
Plus Halo: The Floods Adjunct section has a short story about a Marine who is getting infected and they lose themselves to the Flood. Like the Hunger consumes them till there is nothing left of the hosts personality.
So by all means. A Carrier form has already gone on long enough to have lost all personality. By then its a mere drone to the Flood collective.
torpid sonnet
So they do not inject their prey before they zombiefy them?
like snakes etc
or wasps
obsidian thistle
Well no matter the infection vector a Combat Form that is then useless will turn into a carrier form.
torpid sonnet
must hurt alot to get the extenend hand lenght they have
because it is new bones growing or is it just their own bones changing position for the form to take place?
obsidian thistle
Flood Supercell mutates the body. So yes it would be incredibly painful.
torpid sonnet
so what about the evolution forms
what lifeforms are they from
since they have grown beyond the humanstrucre
obsidian thistle
They are Flood that are based off biomass essentially.
I do assume this is the Pure Forms your talking about right?
torpid sonnet
yeah or there changing technique
i wonder if they feel anything everytime they switch form
obsidian thistle
Probably not. It could just be like how a insect can painlessly change forms
narrow wadi
I do need to ask now
Why are Flood forms so insanely mobile if they’re basically rotting corpses?
Like they can jump further than John, at least twice over, despite John being a super soldier and a Human Combat form basically being a dead Human with an Infection form inside of it
obsidian thistle
The Flood Super Cell mutates the body.
Thats it at its very core
The mutations and so on make bones grow into whips, and allow the body to do stuff.
narrow wadi
The Flood is WEIRD
Like they’re really frail compared to other enemies (pure forms and elite forms in 3 notwithstanding) but at the same time, must be mutated to have muscles of sheer titanium
Cuz they can do absolutely insane things physically, but at the same time, are so frail that it’s a little ]{*}|
Weird
obsidian thistle
Note if you get scratched well thats almost a death sentence. So being frail doesnt mean a thing most of the time.
narrow wadi
No, it’s not cuz they aren’t deadly
The flood are extraordinarily deadly
It’s just that one would think they’d take a couple more hits when they have so much strength and agility
Like one melee hit from Chief during 3 is enough to kill one outright most of the time
obsidian thistle
Note gameplay isnt canon.
versed helm
^
narrow wadi
It’s still also weird though cuz John can still mess flood up with his firs
*fists
Even assuming gameplay isn’t canon, which I can buy, Flood-Infected Keyes was clearly significantly weaker than a normal human as far as durability goes
I know it’s an awkward example, but even for a Spartan, to punch clean through a human head and skull would require an ASTRONOMICAL amount of force.
And he does it seemingly without effort
kindred island
Hello what is the main discussion today
remote spruce
so getting hit by the flood can infect right?
versed helm
I don’t think punching through bone would be an issue
kindred island
What are we talking about?
worldly burrow
Someone is a student of the school of Never Scroll Up. They're talking about Flood forms. I think the original conversation was about whether or not Infected flood could feel pain.
versed helm
Seriously tho just scroll up🙄
spiral lily
@gilded mason I’m talking about how in Fall of Reach it said stuff about how they “predict” there is a warrior leadership and political leadership class
In Silent Storm, the Chief gave designations to elites, grunts and jackals.
As well as the drones
Not sure if he did the same with the brutes
And with the covenant tech, chief said they never got much except for weapons and shield gauntlets
But in Silent Storm they dropped Banshees for Halsey who said she learned a great deal from it.
gilded mason
Ah.
In Silent Storm, the Chief gave designations to elites, grunts and jackals.
I kinda felt John being the one to give the nickname was just a bit much.
spiral lily
Yeah ngl
kindred island
Well I say the flood can feel pain because they can die, if you didn’t feel pain how would you die then cause they infect other beings.
spiral lily
But you see my point, Ostral?
gilded mason
Yeah.
spiral lily
They say they know nothing in Fall of Reach.
But in Silent Storm they know a ton more
gilded mason
Was that still stated in the 2010 rerelease?
spiral lily
And Silent Storm takes place some 9-10 years before fall of Reach
And idk it’s the audiobook
gilded mason
And Silent Storm takes place some 9-10 years before fall of Reach
lol
Try 25 years earlier
spiral lily
I don’t have a copy of the reprint. If anyone has it, can they flip to the briefing for Red Flag?
gilded mason
From Reach, I mean.
gilded mason
Only got the original myself, so I can't help ya there.
kindred island
I just saying like how does the flood infect people and covenant with out feeling pain
spiral lily
Someone with the new copy? Help out?