To make John-117 even cooler
#lore-and-universe
obsidian thistle
warped fiber
Like there is so many gaps in their arsenal that it's a joke compared to a modern military
obsidian thistle
Though 343i has filled a lot of gaps that existed
warped fiber
Well more like creative Assembly
obsidian thistle
Even filling up niche gaps with variants of stuff
Creative assumbly didnt fill all the gaps xD
warped fiber
Kinda like how Ensemble Studios tried to fill gaps with the 1st halo wars
Creative Assembly made halo wars 2
versed helm
RIP Ensemble
Bungie has a formula that worked. So they used that formula
*had
Wow my phone is on a roll with AC today
warped fiber
Yeah. If they filled out the UNSC into a fleshed out military, MC would have 0 use as a front line soldier and he would be doing more behind the scenes black ops stuff like you saw with Osiris team in Halo 5
versed helm
That’s typically what they did anyway
warped fiber
Yeah in the books. But in halo 1-3, chief was mainly in the front lines basically
versed helm
Probably cause there was only one front
warped fiber
It's space wars. The war is 720 degrees
versed helm
In CE and 2 there were specialized operations that chief takes place in
Don’t forget there was a lot going on on earth when the covenant came
What 117 did was only a small part, it just happened to be the most important
warped fiber
Still anyways. As someone who served in the US Army and did 2 tours in Iraq, there is a lot in the UNSC marines and army that I find truly lacking and disappointing
versed helm
Implying the us army is normal
warped fiber
Commander Keyes being one of the biggest issue to me haha
versed helm
Besides. We’ve only seen ONI, the Marines, and the Navy branches of UNSC
ingames at least
warped fiber
A lot of militaries based their doctrine on the US
versed helm
There’s still plenty more goings on
warped fiber
Reach was Army
last anchor
Mostly. There were Marines and Air Force involved
versed helm
British military doesn’t quite do the same
warped fiber
No, but I worked with them and there is a lot that is similar. The basics is all the same across all of NATO. The Advanced stuff is unique
versed helm
I have as well
warped fiber
Why the UK comes the US and does training a lot. Especially at 29 Palms with the US Marines
last anchor
Yeah, so whats the UNSC doing now you think since they draw soldiers from every colony and every nation on Earth?
Its all unified now
versed helm
It’s also not a fair point to see the UNSC as any normal military considering their war was originally on separatists
last anchor
Brushfire war across an entire galactic arm
versed helm
I’d prefer to not go into actual current day military aspects as well because it deals with more than just military, it also branches into politics
I got out when I did for a reason
last anchor
The UNSC seems to have figurd that out thankfully, they have a lor more boots on the groud people than paper pushers
versed helm
Indeed
Well. Moreso
At least for the most part
If we were to cover a lot of the non spartan aspects of the UNSC there’s an uncanny amount of similarities with modern militaries
last anchor
The Covenant war probably helped with that too considerin you were more likely to die in space than on the ground
I mean to be fair the basic idea of the UNSC was "current military, in speess"
So that just makes sense
versed helm
The covenant war is what pushed most politics out
last anchor
Its the whole "It aint broke dont fix it" thing of Aliens
versed helm
Considering it was a fight for survival instead of control
warped fiber
Well look at it this way. Their main stay vehicle is a Light Reconnaissance Vehicle. It has very little armor and is so big it can't fit on roads anywhere on earth. It need almost 2 lanes.
The Scorpion is apparently a MBT and shoots a 90mm cannon, yet it's twice as tall as a Abrams or Challenger and is 30% bigger.
There is no IFVs, and APCs were not a thing till Halo wars 2.
Their small arms weapon systems are extremely large and bulky and to a real life soldier would be extremely unwieldy for a normal infantry soldier. And you know the MA5s doesn't need such a large electric package when the M7S the odsts used could do the same thing, minus the compass, for that was in their HUD.
The list can go on and on
versed helm
Comparative to today sure
However a warthog is small enough for one lane inuniverse
And also has a consumer variant
I also wouldn’t see an application for an IFV on any game so far
Except maybe, maybe, Wars
warped fiber
The tip of the spear level of Halo reach
versed helm
Almost every front in halo we’ve played on was on UNSC controlled territory
There’s no use for IFV applications there
Especially not by Spartans
last anchor
Or being supplied by a low-crewed starship
The Pillar didnt need em cause it was going to be boarding action-ing
In Amber Clad couldnt carry any being a Frigate
warped fiber
Yet it needed tanks?
last anchor
Same with Foward Unto Dawn
warped fiber
They carried tanks
last anchor
The Scorpions were airlifted aboard from Reach around the time it got its falcons I Think
They grabbed whatever was near its landing sight and loaded them up
warped fiber
No. It was part of the complement
versed helm
Needless to say it’s pointless to point differences at a fictional and futuristic space faring military based government with any military today.
warped fiber
The thing is. On the Tip of the Spear mission, it was a very large mechanized armored assault onto a covenant position. Yet they charged into the covenant in a huge Cavalry charge that made everyone in my unit cringe. Yes it looks cool, but it would not have got that way in a realistic situation. Not unless your fine with throwing away thousands of lives.
versed helm
Or are you saying they should also ride horses in the UNSC since they were used in recent wars
It’s kinda the same logic
warped fiber
Wow bro, your really pulling at straws
versed helm
No. I just find it pointless to argue that point
warped fiber
No, there is a thing about mechanized warfare and combined arms operations
last anchor
I dont think the cavalry charge was eveything
Notice how Noble breaks off to go through the side passages
warped fiber
Yeah. They were taking out the AA.
But the thing is. Realistically, could have easily been done with a orbital bombardment. Or an artillery or missle strike
versed helm
They were shielded
warped fiber
In fact. I found the UNSC lack of artillery or even mortars highly unsettling
last anchor
Yeah, you have to go inside and destroy them from the ground.
They have man portable mortars and Kodiacs
warped fiber
The shield was around the teleporters
last anchor
As well as others that they mentioned
Like the Rhino
Also apperently the Scorpion can be converted for SPG role if need be
limpid meadow
I'm sure they tried artillery and missile strikes
versed helm
They did
warped fiber
There was no shields around the AA. They were being covered by a Jammer
limpid meadow
There were other defenses in the area
warped fiber
Which only block scanners and satellites.
versed helm
The spires were covered by shields
last anchor
They didnt need to be. Thats Covenant battleplate
Hence why the only way to destroy them is break the power core
modest marsh
I think the implication is that Covenant jammers obscure optical acquisition even from low orbit
warped fiber
Then they could easily soften the position with heavy artillery. Get some good old 155mm rounds on top of the position. Noble team walks up without resistance
versed helm
Weren’t they confirmed to?
obsidian thistle
And thats one reason Palmer wants you to destroy the enemy core ;)
limpid meadow
It's possible they did soften the position up off-screen
warped fiber
Palmer honestly wasnt that bad
versed helm
I got stuck In A spawnloop on a latter chapter
modest marsh
Noble Team "walked in" because of the interference the combined UNSC managed to muster
limpid meadow
But that's speculation
versed helm
4 binary rifle knights within 20m of spawn
But anywho
Again. We’re talking about bungie era games
Bungie used their same formula
So there’s a lot of things that could have happened offscreen that we have no confirmation or dismissal about
warped fiber
Yeah. That's the thing. If the UNSC fought realistically. It would make the game extremely boring for the player
versed helm
Not entirely
warped fiber
So the UNSC was nerfed for gameplay
limpid kernel
just saying about the covenant AAs, you can also destroy them with a ton of shots with a tank
versed helm
The Calvary charge wasn’t as unrealistic as you imply. It was simply unrealistic modern warfare
last anchor
Yeah but the UNSC couldnt get a tank in that close
modest marsh
yeah, they're not especially durable
last anchor
A least not for the first one
On Sword Base theres a Scorpion convinentnly left there for you
modest marsh
the calvary charge as presented in the game is really impractical
warped fiber
Idk. You had a pelican land a AA Warthog for you
modest marsh
you'd want to space out your units as much as possible
modest marsh
i think Falcons are meant to be "more maneuverable" and thus could more easily evade incoming fire
warped fiber
And if a 90mm HEAT round can take out the AA. A 155mm HE bombardment could easily do it
warped fiber
So in truth. The UNSC was nerfed to make the player feel important and make the game fun
last anchor
Bury them in rounds
limpid meadow
Well, yeah
modest marsh
like phantoms can be downed in as little as 3 shots from a scorpion
limpid meadow
As someone else said, realistic gameplay wouldn't be very fun
This is why I don't like the idea of adapting the books into games
It just wouldn't be very fun or engaging without overhauling what happened
Like, I LOVE Fireteam Raven to death, but the events that cross-over with Halo: The Flood are an absolute bastardization of those events
obsidian thistle
1 even breaks the lore lol
limpid meadow
Yep
obsidian thistle
2 if you count the Banshee john uses to get to the PoA
warped fiber
"Nothing aids accuracy like the simple expedient of firing so many shots that you just can't miss"
limpid meadow
lol
obsidian thistle
But thats me being picky the Banshee lol
last anchor
Shrug
To be honest I wouldnt mind seeing the UNSC resort to overwhelming artillery fire at least ONCE
warped fiber
Well to be fair. The team that made raven took models from all the game. You have Reach Grunts, halo 2 Elites, halo 4 hunters. Etc etc. They took what looked the coolest
And I'm honestly fine with that
Another lore break is the mission where you were in the Ice valley fighting the flood. When chief was rolling down there during that time in CE, it was nighttime, not during the day
limpid meadow
And there were no ODSTs, or any UNSC forces, present
obsidian thistle
John didnt even have a Shotgun
limpid meadow
Fireteam Raven takes a lot of liberties, some more confusing than others
warped fiber
I had a shotgun in that mission :p
limpid meadow
@obsidian thistle You can have a shotgun at that time
I usually keep mine in that mission
obsidian thistle
But Halo the Flood details his loadout at that specific point
warped fiber
Don't you start that mission with a shotgun and plasma pistol though?
obsidian thistle
He had a Sniper at that point in time. Which would of been kinda awesone to see John snipe a pure form.
limpid meadow
CIA is approaching the loadout from the point of view of Halo: The Flood
As he said, the books details what weapons John has during certain encounters
obsidian thistle
Something I studied to make (which I havent finished) my canon difficulty Halo CE playthrough guide
limpid meadow
Oooh, nice!
obsidian thistle
Which would be a ace guide for canon-ish screenshots tbh
warped fiber
Anyways. To be fair, I skip all the MC parts of that book. For they are badly written. Unlike all the parts with the marines.
limpid meadow
Eh, I think they're serviceable at worst
warped fiber
If halo the flood was only about the marines and covenant from their perspective and had chief doing cameos, it would be great
obsidian thistle
They do add weird stuff that cant happen in the campaign
limpid meadow
Dietz did probably the best you could when trying to summarize, accurately, gameplay
obsidian thistle
Jackals in the PoA that John kills
obsidian thistle
Well yea I aint saying they werent
More in CE/CEA John never faces em in the first mission lol
Yet Halo The Flood details an encounter heh
warped fiber
Bungie designed the campaign to have a flow. Each level had a new gameplay mechanic to keep players on their toes
Then around the library they ran out of ideas lol
obsidian thistle
Oh I know. This is just me saying a obvious oddity
warped fiber
Why the game from the library to the end, it kinda goes eh.
last anchor
I mean John rips the face mask of a Grunt and shoves him in a locker on the POA in "The Maw" so
limpid meadow
Yep
warped fiber
Yeah.
But yeah. I wouldn't mind giving Diaz another shot and just write the book from everyone but the Chief's perspective. Seen plenty of books where they did it where the book was focused on the people who interacted with the hero and not the hero themselves.
Halo CE would have us living the part of chief
limpid meadow
I enjoyed having the Chief's perspective, honestly
modest marsh
Once again the Spartan made use of a grenade to even the odds—then crushed the head of an Elite with his fist. The alien’s head was turned to pulp and its body collapsed like a puppet with no strings. The armor gave him enough strength to flip a Warthog over.
limpid meadow
Could have been better, but I would miss it if it were gone.
modest marsh
surely this is shakespearian prose right here
obsidian thistle
Then it would unfortunately remove some cool Lekgolo lore.
limpid meadow
I loved getting in his head.
warped fiber
Or the parts where Diaz didn't know how to handle the unending battle through corridors after corridors and was like.
chief expended hundreds of rounds and left a pile of corpses in his wake
limpid meadow
Why is that bad?
obsidian thistle
Those parts Diaz went into the head of the covies he faced at times
Not all the time
But the times it happened were ace due to what they gave us
warped fiber
Just saying. We could have skipped it, and it ended up ruining the struggle chief had in the FoR whenever he fought covenant and First Strike.
In FoR and FS, each battle was a struggle and life and death was on the line. But then Halo: The flood, it was just another Sunday. But when the marine parts, you could feel the life or death struggle there
modest marsh
there isn't a whole lot of dramatization you can do when you're just describing the repetitious nature of a video game with hording enemies
last anchor
Pretty much
limpid meadow
Yep
modest marsh
i would've appreciated more creative use of, you know, the super soldier he had at his disposal
warped fiber
Why the Chief parts were not much needed except for maybe major parts.
To be honest the endless hoards would have sounded far more cool from the perspective of the marine who was fighting besides chief and watching him take down scores of covenant like it was nothing
But we all know that inside Chief was using every trick in the book just to stay alive
limpid meadow
Adding a marine would have gone against the game
warped fiber
No, I mean for the parts there were marines
The other parts you could have filled it with covenant perspective, like how the book did, or even 343I watching chief through the installation
343GS*
modest marsh
i don't feel like The Flood benefits Chief's character in a way any other piece of media he's featured in does
limpid meadow
It does in ny opinion
warped fiber
Well I said the important part you would be. But I mean the parts in the book were you are like, "okay I'll skip the next 4 paragraphs for they really add nothing to the book"
limpid meadow
Like learning that the Chief is actually afraid of the Flood?
modest marsh
you can infer that from his body language already, and that can be further elaborated through narration
limpid meadow
What body language? There's no body language in CE
Well, other than the Flood intro, I guess
But we get more details in the book, I feel
And that's worthwhile
modest marsh
i disagree, the way John enters the room shows clear unease
warped fiber
He also bounces a grenade in his hand. Hits his head because Cortana dropped chief on his head and even does a shrug
Kicks a rock down a deep hole
limpid meadow
Talking about Flood here
modest marsh
you can add details in the book that would help contextualize John's emotions without italicizing the narration
limpid meadow
But it can never be better or more detailed than actually hearing it from Chief himself
modest marsh
my point is you don't need to be told how a character feels
we didn't need to be told that John was unsettled by Cortana's state at the beginning of Halo 4
limpid meadow
Sure. But I want to be told in Chief's case
modest marsh
he managed to convey that without it being put in big letters on the screen "Chief is sad"
limpid meadow
Halo 4 isn't a book
modest marsh
no, but books offer their own tools
warped fiber
Like halo 3 when Johnson died. You could tell cheif was hurt. Nothing needed to be said
limpid meadow
So why are you comparing a book to a game?
Guys, those are games, holy hell
You can't compare them.
warped fiber
You brought it up 1st with the only time you could tell chief was worried about the flood was the cutscene in Halo CE
And we are saying that is all you need
limpid meadow
I didnt bring up body language, someone else did
modest marsh
I did
warped fiber
Oh
modest marsh
let me provide an example
warped fiber
My bad
limpid meadow
If it has anything to do with a non-book, then pass
Let's stick to books
And look, yes, there are a lot of improvements that could have been made to Halo: The Flood
But, given that it was written in less time than The Fall if Reach, it works for what it is.
warped fiber
Wow. Just realized halo FoR,TF, and FS are not on kindle
limpid meadow
Yes they are
I have all 3
Might have to go through the Amazon site rather than Kindle store
modest marsh
The Spartan froze, something against his very nature. The Master Chief always knew what to do, and never hesitated to do what needed to be done. But what he bore witness to was something he wasn't prepared for. His fists clenched, struggling to search for a sense of purpose, a clear solution to what had just transpired. He shook his head, as if to remove a physical impediment of some kind, but the stiffness in his posture betrayed an uneasiness the likes of which he hadn't displayed in his entire career.
here, this is something i just wrote up
"master chief is the big scare"
warped fiber
I'm just saying, the only parts that we needed from Chief's perspective was when he made an important choice, a new discovery, a key plot, and a few random events to add fluff and flair. The entire rest of the book could have been like what it is now on what the Marines and covenant were doing at the same time and from the perspective of those who fought with, against, and observed the chief
limpid meadow
Maybe it could have been, but you have to consider the situation and circumstances under which this book was written.
warped fiber
And that's why I'm fine with Diaz getting another crack at it and doing a rewrite. Maybe even add the fireteam raven parts as well just for fun
limpid meadow
Pass on a rewrite. I don't like focusing on the past.
If rather give the other Halo games novelizations.
Or at least, the Bungie games.
warped fiber
Well we got that with Halo New Blood
warped fiber
In fact that was a decent retelling of the events of odst without making it feel exhausting to read and waste of time
limpid meadow
Noble 6 has a canon gender, so fuck it, give him some actual character
obsidian thistle
Halo 2 however has the issue of Palace Hotel in Evolutions
obsidian thistle
Tbh I still wanna know what the Canon version of Outskirts/Metropolis is
warped fiber
I always see the games as telling a small portion of what actually happened during an event. Like cod retelling a scene from an important battle.
obsidian thistle
Oh for games treat it like this
warped fiber
Like in CoD, a battle only last like 30 minutes but in reality it took 12 hours
warped fiber
Yeah
Unless your bungie and hate the EU and say, "the games are canon, the EU can rot"
grizzled marsh
Yeah, I'm thinking that all the stuff in Palace Hotel that takes place during Gameplay segments is probably what happened canonically.
warped fiber
I still remember when Bungie didnt want the books being made and just have chief be a Clone Cyborg supersoldier
limpid meadow
It was written by Robt McLees of Bungie, so...
modest marsh
there's always the multiple timelines interpretation
Palace Hotel is just one version of events
limpid meadow
No thanks
modest marsh
as is every version of someone playing the game
limpid meadow
Stahp
warped fiber
I'm the Chief who glitches out of the map and avoids all the combat
modest marsh
this
obsidian thistle
Yea lets not do a pokemon on us here. Where its essentially everyones playthroughs are canon
warped fiber
Or beats Commander Keyes to death with a skull I found on some beam above the command room
obsidian thistle
*Yea pokemon lore can get very deep
last anchor
Horrifyingly so
limpid meadow
But is it Bionicle Lore deep?
warped fiber
Oh god Commander Keyes was a totally incompetent commander. Who leaves a frigate in low orbit above flood infested grounds. Especially since she had Cortana give her all the intel on the halo rings, even the classified intel, which included the flood.
Or commanding all ground forces in the Africa Theater. So is a Navy commander which is equivalent to a Marine/Army Major. You seriously couldn't find someone who was actually trained to fight in ground engagements like a marine Major or Col, hell even a Captain would do.
Only thing she had going for he was that she was gun ho
limpid meadow
Who said Miranda commanded all Africa theater forces?
obsidian thistle
Tbh the UNSC was looking for folks who could potientially turn tides in battle. And Miranda did do some stuff that earned her place in the Amber Clad.
warped fiber
She was in command of all the marines from Crows nest to Voi
limpid meadow
Under Lord Hood, yes
warped fiber
So the important part of Africa
Yeah, hood was the general, by Keyes was in a Battalion commander's position
limpid meadow
When did she abandon the Dawn in low orbit?
warped fiber
In Amber Clad
limpid meadow
When did she abandon it in low orbit?
She abandoned it, yes, but we don't know the circumstances
limpid meadow
Okay
warped fiber
Not only hers, but the men from the 2 other frigates in orbit
And don't tell me she didnt have the intel of the flood. She had Cortana give her all the Intel on the Halo rings. That would include the flood
limpid meadow
There were no other frigates actively engaged other than In Abmer Clad
warped fiber
The UNSC In Amber Clad, Coral Sea, Dusk, Paris, and Redoubtable were all present in the battle of Installation 05
carmine sleet
Not all at the same time
limpid meadow
The latter 4 were sent after In Amber Clad
And as I recall, only showed up once the Great Schism had started
That would he after In Amber Clad had been taken, or around the time it was taken
warped fiber
The Paris showed up at the schism. The rest out ran it
limpid meadow
Commander Keyes was by herself for much of the battle, evading a superior ship and later the entire Covenant home fleet.
The Dusk showed up at the Schism
warped fiber
The amount of Marines and human flood in the quarantine zone out numbered that of the marine complement on a stalwart
So you had at least one other ship sending its marines over to support the flood
The clad*
limpid meadow
The Paris and Redoubt, as far as we know, just scanned around and didnt help out
And even if other ships deployed, who's to say Miranda was in charge, or even informed?
You're making some big assumptions then judging Miranda based on those assumptions.
limpid meadow
Indeed
last anchor
Also did they have confirmation that only humans could activate Forerunner stuff at this point or did that come later
limpid meadow
I'll say though, she's a bit more hands on than she probably should be
last anchor
Leading the charge into the Flood infested halls of the Library? YEAH
limpid meadow
It's not that only Humans can activate Forerunner tech, just that humans have easy access
With enough time, I'm sure the Covenant could figure out how to activate a Halo.
warped fiber
Never said she was in charge of the other ships 2 of them were prowlers.
But she even when she lost her first few teams to the flood, she would have know of the threat. You encountered areas where the Marines were setting up checkpoints and outpost. She was constantly ferrying in armor and more marines into the the zone as more and more of her teams were being wiped out and converted. Then she ends up doing a last mad dash for the key. And also she had Johnson with her the entire time. Who knew the flood in person
limpid meadow
Because letting that Key fall into Covenant hands could spell the end if the war in a very bad way
What is the greater threat: The Flood, or the Halo?
warped fiber
The flood. The halo only had a limited range. Why you needed at least 7 of them. If the flood escape that range, nothing would have stopped them
limpid meadow
Halos have a 25,000 light year radius, and activating one activates the entire array
warped fiber
You talking about a parasite that took over the High Charity in a span of 24 hours
limpid meadow
And a weapon that instantly kills anything within its firing range
warped fiber
And because of that, she had the flood break containment. If it wasn't for Cortana tricking the gravemind, the galaxy was finished
limpid meadow
Flood containment had already been broken
warped fiber
Yes, but the covenant prevented the flood from getting anywhere near gravemind. Keyes gave the flood a slipspace capable ship
Near high Charity
limpid meadow
Yeah, "gave". Im sure she just handed it over.
warped fiber
Pretty much did.
limpid meadow
You're assuming Keyes didn't do everything in her power to prevent that.
versed helm
0ower
limpid meadow
0 and p are very close to each other on mobile :P
versed helm
Not for me thankfully
feral perch
I know it's way up in the convo but I don't think the Covies could ever manage to activate a Halo by themselves
versed helm
My hands are too large for tiny keyboards and I still make mistakes
limpid meadow
Given enough time, they could
feral perch
Even 000 Tragic Solitude couldn't activate them, and he was a Forerunner ancilla
limpid meadow
The Covenant have accessed plenty of tech they were never meant to
warped fiber
Could have easily have. One, not have the ship hang in low orbit and 2, not let any pelicans aboard without the proper command clearance.
You had Johnson, Chipps, and Stacker aboard who all survived the 1st halo ring. They knew the flood. Bet they even warned her.
versed helm
Indeed
feral perch
But none of them were on the scale of Halo rings
modest marsh
the covenant have engineers
feral perch
You put better locks on the more dangerous stuff is what I mean
limpid meadow
-
You're assuming it was hanging in low orbit
-
Because it's that easy, right?
Chips and Stacker are not good evidence to use for anything
They are mostly joke characters
limpid meadow
As was Cortana
But the Flood of Installation 04 was not the Flood of Installation 05
feral perch
Yeah, I wonder what would have happened had the proto-Gravemind developed on 04, when a Gravemind already existed on Delta Halo?
limpid meadow
Neither Johnson nor Cortana knew about the Gravemind or how it could direct the Flood
versed helm
Johnson’s standard personality may be a joke character. But he’s very serious when he needs to be
limpid meadow
How it could, in theory, give the right access codes or response to board In Amber Clad.
versed helm
But yeah. Gravemind was an unprecedented enemy at the time
limpid meadow
@feral perch Graveminds have a range of effect, so nothing would happen immediately
But if the two met? That's the big question
feral perch
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering
limpid meadow
We all wonder
feral perch
I believe it's assumed or outright stated that only one Gravemind can exist in a galaxy at a time
warped fiber
You serious? Did you not see the ship just hovering there where you get on the platform to the library and the spec ops commander is all like, "ah, the humans are on the other platform" with the in amber clad just sitting there
The forerunner series makes mention of multiple graveminds
limpid meadow
I did not see the Amber, no. I'll have to check that out
feral perch
Graveminds or Key Minds?
limpid meadow
Well, Graveminds are a type of Key Mind
feral perch
Key Minds kind of do whatever the writers want, I think, especially with Awakening the Nightmare's lore
warped fiber
I'm fine with that. Be cool if Halo Infinite was a 4 way war. With flood, Cortana, covenant, and UNSC
feral perch
Infinite's campaign should just be a bigger version of Gruntpocalypse lol
warped fiber
Omg. No. But wait, 5 way war with that Grunt faction for Halo wars 2
limpid meadow
Okay, just checked, I see the Amber in low orbit
feral perch
And how about we throw in those ugly human rip-offs from Nightfall?
limpid meadow
Still, I maintain that letting the Index fall into Covenant hands would not have been a good idea, and certainly something Miranda would have wanted to prevent
feral perch
the Yonhet?
warped fiber
You know. The covenant fringe was a great plot device to add many more alien species
feral perch
They look like the weevils from Torchwood dude
limpid meadow
343 really needs to tap the Covenant Fringe
warped fiber
@feral perch not saying the species themselves, but add even more species
feral perch
yeah
feral perch
I want to know what fed the Flood on Delta Halo to the point where a Gravemind formed
warped fiber
All the wildlife
feral perch
they weren't intelligent
warped fiber
You can see in Halo Wars and even the Graphic Novel that the flood infect wildlife and grow off that
feral perch
Yes, but there was no sign of even a proto-Gravemind
those were feral flood
until the Covenant showed up
warped fiber
Idk. We do know from the short story where Cortana fought the gravemind, that the gravemind had the memories species infected all the way from the human forerunner war
Using those memories to break her
feral perch
He would have access to Forerunner records from Delta Halo
warped fiber
But to actually have the memories to the point that Cortana could actually feel and smell the world around her and feel the pain as that person felt the pain of being infected. Idk
For all we know, the forerunners may have been stupid enough to store a keymind for research
They did have pure forms stored there as seen in the Cold Storage map on halo 3
feral perch
yeah
warped fiber
For all we know, since the gravemind could control them from across the galaxy. It's possible a pure form escaped and he used that to create himself there. And for all we know, we didn't really kill the gravemind and the original is still trapped whenever he was before transferring consciousness to that pure form
feral perch
That could be.
warped fiber
I am not holding my breath in running into the grave mind again. I called the plot of Halo 5 the moment I beat halo 4. I wouldn't be surprised by gravemind coming back
I'm still shocked that Cortana becoming the bad guy in halo 5 was a surprise to anyone
All the signs were there in Halo 3 and 4
And it was a recurring theme of halo
Were the created always turn on the creators
Well I'm off to Dave and Buster's. Bunch of my co-workers are going there for Monday night football. I'll be playing Halo: FireTeam Raven for the 4th time. Someone knocked me off 1st place by like 300 points. I need to fix that
versed helm
Whatever became of Thel Lodamee?
grizzled marsh
I don't think we know yet.
grizzled marsh
There is a lot of the Covenant that we haven't seen, so I would think so.
versed helm
I would also love to know more about the Writ of Union then what we already have on it
Remind me,wasn't there something that stated on the reason as to why the Covenant never deployed their full military might against the UNSC?
grizzled marsh
Regret said in Halo Wars that "it would leave them defenseless" or something along those lines. We aren't sure what they would be defenseless from though. People thought it was the Banished but the timeline doesn't work for that. It's possible that he was referring to a human counter attack.
versed helm
Or it might be possible that the Covenant could've been at war with other interstellar empires
Which brings up another question i have in mind,how large was the Covenant's sphere of influence prior to the Great Schism...did they control territories outside the Orion Arm?
grizzled marsh
Possibly. We know that most of the species in the Covenant had quite a few colonies. Some of them might have been in the "gap" between the Orion Arm and the other surrounding arms.
versed helm
Which brings up a thought....because of that,it's possible that the Covenant encountered and possibly subjugated numerous races during their galaxy wide search for the Halos,including the ones we see in the games
I mean,we do have the Covenant fringe but they never expanded upon them other than what we already have on them,the only race we know about so far that is a part of it is the Yonhet
Now that i think about it,they never expanded upon the Yonhet either,other than what we have on them
grizzled marsh
They kind of have, a little. They were brought up in Escalation and they were mentioned in Halo 5. But absolutely nothing major, for now.
versed helm
I would love to see more of the Covenant fringe,like what other races are a part of it other than the Yonhet
warped fiber
It is very possible that there is a few Empires in the galaxy that the covenant encountered and fought to a stalemate and they avoid each other, or empires never even discovered
last anchor
Or those that refused acceptance into the Covenant and were destroyed
warped fiber
Or Clans of elites that never agreed to the writ of union and conducted guerilla warfare. Basically the Covenant suffered from everything that any oppressive empire suffers from
versed helm
Where in the Orion Arm is the Orion Complex located?
versed helm
Just below the shoulders
grizzled marsh
According to wikipedia it's somewhere between 1000 and 1400 lightyears away from Earth and near Barnard's Loop.
warped fiber
Oh I been there on elite dangerous
grizzled marsh
What do you need help with?
hexed stratus
I'm struggling to theorise just how many servicemen and women serve in the UNSCDF
Given humanity's population of (39?) billion in 2525, as I believe it is
obsidian thistle
Tbh we never been given a figure
hexed stratus
I'm trying to divide the Army and Marine Corps into divisions based on common contemporary and apparently future titles (i.e. Regiment, Brigade, Divison etc.)
*Division lol
obsidian thistle
And "drafts" would expand any number we come up with.
hexed stratus
I took some creative license for the hire groups but mostly stayed true to reality e.g. a Brigade having roughly 5000, Division 25 000 etc.
And if I pretend that a six-star general is the highest in the wartime UNSC Army or Marine Corps, the most realistic estimate I get is 10 million soldiers in either
and some quick research tells me that in WWII Germany alone apparently fielded "20 million" 'soldiers' across all services
so now I'm stuck wondering just how many permanent members a 39 billion population would have in its armed forces
*higher groups
fair hazel
remember that during that time, there were births, natural deaths, etc
hexed stratus
yeah absolutely true but I'm still lost
to make matters worse, General Nicholas Strauss of the UNSC Security Council is actually only a two-star Major General so wtf is he doing on the Security Council
given that Fleet Admiral Hood is also on this council
grizzled marsh
Well, the UNSC military lost a lot of people. Likely the higher ranking Army generals died in the war.
hexed stratus
you'd think he'd be promoted though? if he's sitting on the council alongside 5-star Hood
grizzled marsh
The UNSC might have been too desperate to worry about formalities like that.
hexed stratus
that doesn't suit my fan-fic at all now does it
in the end I've decided to run with the UNSC Army having approx 2.5 mil by the time of the Battle of Earth, with 1mil stationed on Earth and the rest spread elsewhere
I subscribe to the theory I've seen repeated that the Covenant only attacked from one "side" of the UNSC space so a good portion of Earth's colonies were as yet untouched
quaint cloud
The Return of Tom B292 and Lucy B091?
You got to bring them back plus Tom is like a mini Kurt
warped fiber
1 million on earth? The United States at this current moment has over 2 million service members if you count the reserves. And that's one country. You got to pump those numbers up. This is the whole planet here
versed helm
I would suggest 700mil
grizzled marsh
I think it might be more than 700 mil. Reach alone had over 380 million available manpower.
grizzled marsh
That sounds about right.
warped fiber
I could see it. But that would also include reservist units
grizzled marsh
Yeah, that Reach number doesn't specify whether they reserves or not. Just manpower. So it probably includes all the reservists.
warped fiber
Yeah. A lot of nations count the reserves into the numbers
balmy heart
Question the events of halo 3 odst happen after the events of halo 2's new mombasa sequence right?
grizzled marsh
Yup.
balmy heart
Like its apart of the lore right?
grizzled marsh
Yup.
balmy heart
Can i get further confirmation
grizzled marsh
Buck is in Halo 5
grizzled marsh
There are two books dedicated to the team from ODST
The files provided by the Legendary Lootcrate
balmy heart
Cus someones telling me odst actually takes place after halo 3
And that buck and the others were aperently too young during halo 2
grizzled marsh
Halo: New Blood, one of the two books about Alpha-Nine talks about their time in New Mombasa. The Lootcrate files and the Ten Twenty videos reveal the dates of the battle and the old Bungie ODST pages give the dates for their births and enlistments.
It's definitely canon that they were there when they were there.
Even they're Waypoint articles have all this information.
grizzled marsh
Yeah, right after Metropolis. You can even see the In Amber Clad in the opening cutscene to ODST.
balmy heart
Yea ik
But he's saying that even bungie said halo 3 odst happened after halo 3
Is this still valid?
grizzled marsh
No. ODST very much took place right after Metropolis.
grizzled marsh
Not that I'm aware of.
balmy heart
-w- i swear this guy when it comes to any kind of lore is like talking to a wall
Well thank you commander ^-^
Any further info u have about this would be greatly apprciated
If it's not too much trouble that is
grizzled marsh
The best I can think of is sending him a bunch of Waypoint links and that GeneralKid video where he goes right up to the In Amber Clad in ODST.
But I don't know if he'll believe them.
balmy heart
He wont more then likely
unique rune
ask him how ODST taking place after H3 would even work
grizzled marsh
Actually, wait. Here. The Waypoint page about ODST literally states that it's a prologue: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-3-odst
unique rune
New Mombasa and the surrounding area got glassed after the Flood arrived at Earth
if ODST took place after H3
it wouldn't make
any sense whatsoever
balmy heart
Again i know this
unique rune
I'm assuming you've told the guy you're arguing with how it doesn't work?
balmy heart
MHMMMM
balmy heart
and that ur supposed to play it after the new mombasa sequence
unique rune
...What.
balmy heart
Im saying u play halo odst after the new mombasa sequence in 2 and he's saying otherwise
unique rune
Yeah, you're correct.
I'm not sure what exactly the other guy is on about but he's got something screwed up somewhere.
balmy heart
He's done the same thing when it came to lore about star wars
And fallou5
Fallout*
-~-
unique rune
I feel like by this point you should just give up arguing with him.
As the quote goes, "Don't argue with stupid people. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
grizzled marsh
I'm sorry you're in this argument to begin with.
balmy heart
^
warped fiber
About the odsts looking to young You forget one thing, many UNSC marines spend a lot of time in cryo. Sgt Johnson is almost a 100 years old or so.
What I don't get is the very slow promotion rate the UNSC does
hexed stratus
Yeah isn't Chips Dubbo a PFC for the entire war lmao
warped fiber
Jenkins was a in the war since Harvest, yet he is only a Pfc and Johnson was a SSgt during CE
brave dew
Hey fellas, just poppin in. The debate may have ended but lets all play nicely 😃
warped fiber
Yeah, we are on the ranking system of the UNSC now
brave dew
❤
warped fiber
But seriously. It would be a pain. Stay in for 30 years, fight in multiple campaigns. and you stay the same rank?
hexed stratus
no disrespect to the writers, but it's just poor writing
warped fiber
It really was
hexed stratus
I've read a lot of the early writers didn't have a strong grasp of military protocol etc.
I don't blame them, it's a lot for someone to wrap their heads around and replicate authentically
fair hazel
He could have been demoted at some point or not been combatting for that entire duration .
warped fiber
Diatz did. He was a Navel Corpsman who was attached to the US Marines.
fair hazel
Also I do get trying to argue, when you are right, with someone who won’t accept facts. Happened often enough.
Some people saying stuff like, books aren’t canon. And a lot of other stuff.
warped fiber
Why the parts in Halo The Flood that just focused on the Marines was very good
fair hazel
The parts without the retelling.
And the parts with the covenant perspective
Funny how, many people consider it maybe the worst book. But there’s been a lot of interesting stuff to come out of it.
Halo CEA terminals. The scene from the book visualized Halo firefeam raven
hexed stratus
so @warped fiber you and the others were saying earlier after I left that the UNSC probably numbers something like 700mil at it's height
my problem with that is that with massively high military numbers each officer is commanding increasingly massive numbers of personnel that seem unrealistic
and I don't know how to tackle that
assuming the UNSC got obliterated as the war went on which it of course did, that number would suggest something like 100mil left by the Battle of Earth, so let's say 30mil in the Army and similar in the Marines
that's soooooo many ahaha
warped fiber
@hexed stratus why would each officer need to command more men
You literally have
Fire team > 4-5 men
Squad > 9 - 14 men
Platoon > 40 - 60 men
Company > 130 - 150 men
Battalion > ~400 men strong
Brigade > 3k - 5k men
Division > 10k - 20k men
Corps > which has 2 to 5 Divisions
Then you get even more complex with marine and navy Flotillas, Squadrons, Task Force, Strike Groups, Fleets, so on and so on.
The individual officer wont be commanding more men. The only people who would have to deal with the large numbers would be those at the very top who are in command of whole theaters of operations and the pencil pushers who have to do all the paperwork. Why by the time the battle of reach, the UNSC would have a ton of ghost fleets on their roster for the department in charge of unit counts could never keep up. Especially with how slow it took information to reach them for the UNSC did not have instantaneous communications across planets and star systems.
hexed stratus
yeah yeah I don't disagree with you, I'm talking like you said the people at the top
like Brigadiers, Major Generals, Lieutenant Generals, 4-stars would all have to be commanding much much more
unless they kept making higher star ranks which we know doesn't happen because Fleet Admiral is still the highest in the Navy
Like if say 30 million UNSC Army soldiers/personnel were on Earth come the October invasion, who would be in charge of that? and then on a smaller scale, does that mean say a million Army troopers defended say a capital city like New York and Sydney? or even two million each? It's hard to wrap my head around that
having said that, I just read the order of battle for the Battle of Berlin in WWII and there were millions of Soviets so I guess it's not too far a stretch of the imagination
warped fiber
A one 2 star general would only command a Division
1-2 star*
3 stars usually command a corps
hexed stratus
yeah my research said the same
warped fiber
I'm going off experience here
hexed stratus
I've currently got a 4-star leading a field army of 500 000, commanding 5 corps
and then a 5-star has an Army Group of 2 500 000, which has 5 armies
warped fiber
Your going WW2 level there
hexed stratus
that's mild creative license on my part
I just can't imagine anymore than like 10 000 soldiers inside a CBD such as Sydney or New York at one time but if the UNSC Army has tens of millions on Earth then it'd mean they'd be able to commit millions to the defense of an important city such as those two
and that is hard to fathom given the scale of the battles we've seen so far
I'm thinking Pirth in Halo Wars, New Alexandria in Reach and of course New Mombasa in ODST
warped fiber
Well by then, when your that high up, you don't see individual soldiers. Your moving troops across the map by Battalions or brigades
It's up to the Battalions and brigades to figure out how to accomplish the goal
hexed stratus
but in reality that's still thousands of personnel
like I can't see them FITTING inside these cities ahaha
it suits my narrative to have only 15 000 Army soldiers defending Sydney at max but yes given that we're talking about the military of a unified Earth with a population of 13 billion I know how unlikely and unrealistic my version is
warped fiber
Well the Brigade would task the right elements to go there
You know city defense isnt only the city right
For example the Battle of Stalingrad was the city and everything within a 100 miles of it
hexed stratus
yeah I just figured the Covenant would overwhelm and encircle the defenders inside the city proper
but I guess I could change the narrative and say the fighting continues all around
warped fiber
And you also have to remember that by then, earth was covered in mega cities. Like From San Diego to San Francisco
Was one mega city
hexed stratus
really???? I didn't know that, source?
the issue there is though that if I put say a million soldiers in Sydney, then I need a million Covenant or more for an even fight, and each CAS carrier carries 40 000 apparently, which means 25 carriers and there's no way back against that for the defenders
warped fiber
Look at New Phoenix. It was originally Phoenix and Flagstaff and then they grew so big they merged into a single city
hexed stratus
oh WOW they're ages apart
warped fiber
Chicago, also known as the Greater Chicago Industrial Zone or simply "the Zone", is a human metroplex in the country of the United Republic of North America on Earth. It is located on near Lake Michigan. Formerly a city of the United States of America, the Zone is now a vast urban sprawl covering large parts of what used to be the states of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Indiana.
The city are up 3 states
hexed stratus
yeah just read that then and looked at Chicago on maps
warped fiber
But yeah, you have to remember. The UNSC is spread across over a hundred planets or so.
hexed stratus
so Sydney would probably be massively built up way past where the CBD currently is
given it's the capital
hexed stratus
lore has been mildly inconsistent, one source stated the UNSC Supreme Headquarters was somewhere in the URNA
which wouldn't surprise me
and then Bravo-6 became a thing and it's been Sydney that's referred to as the focal point of everything ever since
warped fiber
Yeah
night tulip
Sydney official UNSC and ONI headquarters in current canon now
woeful sierra
Just finished Contact Harvest. Pretty good book, but I think I didn’t need some of the lorebuilding on Covenant mating habits.
Also, looking at the previous conversation, ONI’s headquarters is in Boston.
limpid meadow
ONI has a building in Boston, but their headquarters are in Sydney
Actually, scratch that
Hmm, gonna need to re-examine this.
obsidian thistle
Maybe 2 buildings in Boston 😉 Assuming Chawla base in ILBs is not one the same with the HTT building.
limpid meadow
Yeah, that crossed my mind
obsidian thistle
I do hope they are the same though
obsidian thistle
I am totally going to fix up HP pages on ILBs in 2019 xD ARGs are one of the wikis "weaker" points.
Ohh I never noticed how Sesas version of the Type-26AZ in H2A actually fits its established lore from a Joyride toy xD https://www.halopedia.org/images/4/41/H2A-HereticBanshee-Alt.png
Painted over with the colors of Sangheilios (you can barely see the og purple underneath), and also some cowlings removed revealing "Forerunner" mechanisms.
*We have never actually seen a not modified version of a T-26AZ before which I still find interesting.
versed helm
What really caused the Flood outbreak on Delta Halo?
Was it really some sort of outside force or was it because 2401 became lazy?
limpid meadow
2401 being lazy is the only confirmed factor
obsidian thistle
Yep
limpid meadow
Outsides forces may have come into play, but that remains to be seen
It would certainly make sense.
obsidian thistle
Aliens were heading to Halo rings
And leaving
So it makes sense that maybe 1 went to Delta Halo and released the flood. Either on purpose, or by accident.
limpid meadow
Probably on accident
Or accidentally on purpose
They didn't intend to release a virulent parasite, they wanted to see what the ring held
versed helm
IIRC...prior to the arrival of the Covenant and the UNSC,Alpha Halo was visited by various space faring races
limpid meadow
Yep
obsidian thistle
Or perhaps they were researching the flood and needed to see how it would infect an area prior to containment procedures taking control.
limpid meadow
Confirmed by Conversations from the Universe
limpid meadow
@obsidian thistle Why would they be researching the Flood though?
obsidian thistle
Who knows tbh
limpid meadow
The post-array galaxy wouldn't know about the Flood
limpid meadow
Seems unlikely that any civilization to ascend to the stars would know about the Flood
The Covies knew because they were looking for Forerunner artifacts
That could be the case for other space-farring races, sure, but that seems less likely
At least to me
obsidian thistle
Well its a possibility none the less. I have no real opinion bar I dub any aliens who meddle on Halo rings and Covenant affairs "meddlers".
Just cause thats what they are doing lol. Causing effects we only see hints off.
versed helm
Speaking of 2401..whatever became of him after the events of Halo 2?
obsidian thistle
Mystery.
limpid meadow
I like to think he's still on the ring
obsidian thistle
Either that or he left/vanished like most monitors are weirdly doing bar 031 atm it seems.
versed helm
Like 049 Abject Testament...we're not sure what happened to him,seems kind of suspicious that the caretaker of a Halo installation would just disappear like that
obsidian thistle
I still wonder what 4096 is doing...
Cause of the whole "Edom Terminal\Juridical" scenario.
And how around March 3rd 2558 it just stopped talking to the Catalog.
versed helm
Now that i think about it...it seems kind of suspicious that all of these Forerunner ancillas would just vanish like that
obsidian thistle
Which weirdly reminds me that technically the Forum Catalog is one of the few confirmed biological Forerunner Halo Array survivors in the modern Halo universe thats still kicking.
versed helm
Along with that unknown Builder that was looking for Bastion
obsidian thistle
Correct.
versed helm
Now that i think about it..how did that Builder even survive the Great Purification and what was he doing in all that time
obsidian thistle
Mysteries. They keep going yet we have no answers.
versed helm
Then there's still Solitary
I still like to know who or what could've been imprisoned with that facility
obsidian thistle
I'd like to know where a lot of Halo MP maps are
Some are on "Halos" but we dont know what Halos they are on xD
versed helm
Like the map Warlord...where in the galaxy is that map located
And the Halo 4 map Impact
limpid meadow
The unknown Builder survived by uploading his mind to the Domain. So he's technically no longer a living being
limpid kernel
Forge mode could be canon
limpid meadow
It is canon
limpid kernel
Wait whhhaaaaj?!-9
limpid meadow
Yeah. Mind you, how it's presented isn't canon, but there is a custom map editor program that UNSC techs use
versed helm
Then there's the unknown object from the Halo 4 map Impact
limpid meadow
limpid kernel
I think it could also be canon with the monitors
Like how exuberant gives you a tank
limpid meadow
Unlikely
obsidian thistle
I mean you "could" view it like that
last anchor
Probably not. But the way you interact with it, with the menus and things literally appearing out of thin air is probably canon
Its just a person either using some kind of hand movement stuff to move it around and place things or its a computer program same as it is in the actual game
Just minus the monitor mode cause, you know, its not really needed
quasi viper
Don't miss todays 343 social stream with Frankie and ske7ch talking about Halo 2, they will play the E3 2003 demo!
obsidian thistle
We wont boss :D I have to much to look over
night tulip
Ooooo goodie
dusty pilot
H2 DEMO? omg...
versed helm
Whatever became of the Solemn Penance?
severe elbow
Never said.
versed helm
At this point..i'm thinking that it was destroyed during the battle around High Charity or it was destroyed during the Great Schism
mental viper
tall moat
Speaking of, how was the In Amber Clad taken over by the Flood above Delta Halo?
last anchor
We dont know. More than likely, stolen dropship
tall moat
Wasn’t it confusing as heck the first time round when you saw IAC crashing into High Charity? A short cutscene foreshadowing Flood takeover would’ve helped...
tame pollen
when Johnson and Miranda went for the activation index they left in amber clad stationed on there, since they were captured and the zone was super infected with flood, it makes sense that the ship was eventually taken by the flood.
I think
tall moat
It’s not the most obvious inference when you see IAC spewing Flood-laden dropships on High Charity
Why? How? It’s too out of the blue
fair hazel
Not really. It doesn’t take one to think that much.
tall moat
You don’t expect to see the IAC popping out of nowhere into High Charity, most likely light years away
Way too abrupt
fair hazel
Most likely light years away what?
IAC was with you. You see it. Then on high charity it pops in. And there’s no response. Then the floor poors out. It’s like. Oh. Yikes t got infected. All of those marines
tall moat
Exactly you see it on Delta Halo, you get teleported by the Gravemind, then the IAC somehow appears alongside you
Oopsie, High Charity was AT delta halo along with the ‘largest fleet anyone has ever seen’
Another problem then, how did IAC perform such a precise slipspace jump to the inside of High Charity?
SMH Bungie 😒
versed helm
At least we didn't cop the Star Wars treatment of superluminal travel concepts
tall moat
What treatment? Sorry I’m not enough of a SW nerd
versed helm
Well, they seem to think that using something that moves explicitly FTL in hyperspace as a projectile was feasible
I mean, I haven't tried it myself, but I wouldn't put my money on that happening
It also leaves for a bunch of plot-holes IIRC, but I'm too lazy to remember how it does
tall moat
Oh this is TLJ is it?
versed helm
Yeah lolol
But I think Halo could go for a Captain Phasma kind of character, honeslty
tall moat
Commander Palmer?
versed helm
not so much her personality or anything, but her role in the empire could inspire something cool
tall moat
Again, please enlighten me on her role
versed helm
Maybe not so much Palmer, more a character that leads other Spartans/Elites, but is involved with a secret society in tandem
Sort of a phantasm-like character that pretends to be their leader
versed helm
Maybe, but I was thinking something with a stronger contrast
Something bounty-hunter like
maiden mica
Hey does the UNSC use the M.A.C. Platforms to destroy asteroids that can present a risk in the long run?
versed helm
I don't see why they couldn't use them in that way
maiden mica
I just want a reason to use it that's all...
tall moat
Dark Moon Enterprises from Halo: Retribution is what you’re looking for @versed helm
Ivanoff Station in H4 had Onagers to defend itself from rogue asteroids
maiden mica
Over comms all hands a spartan has gone rogue and made it's way into the platform's control room, be prepared
versed helm
Hahaha, of course Denning would score with that idea
maiden mica
Oh yeah, you're right
versed helm
Going to have to pick up retribution now
tall moat
Yay more Halo lore for everyone
versed helm
I think this kind of lore could be elucidated in the TV series, hopefully
tall moat
elucidate, now there’s a word I don’t know
elucidate (verb) - to make clear, explain
versed helm
This Gallo character seems like she could be part of a potential Spartan Program rival
tall moat
Ikr I wanna see some rival Spartans like the ones hinted at in H5 REQ descriptions
versed helm
Ah yeah, I picked up on that word to sound smart back in school lol
tall moat
Thanks, I’ll be sure to use it from now on
versed helm
Yeah, I had a habit of being a walking thesaurus back then
non-english teachers hated it lol
Wasn't there a hint of another Spartan-like program described by Halsey?
back in Ghosts of Onyx, IIRC
tall moat
Pretty sure that was Ackerson’s classified S-III program, no?
versed helm
I think so, actually
tall moat
Yeah I think Dark Moon Enterprises was the first mention of anything clandestine that could also take on the UNSC
versed helm
That just made me think of an idea
What if they were to write something about innies scavenging some smaller-scale HGRUNTING exoskeletons?
Would love to see a battle between those guys and some Spartans
tall moat
Pretty sure Spartans would still ravage them like they did in The Fall of Reach(?)
The training exo-suits
versed helm
Maybe make them IVs to make the fight more interesting lol
tall moat
Give the Cyclopes a Mega Plasma Pistol on one arm and a Sniper Rifle/Battle Rifle hybrid on the other
Noob Combo for days, nothing could stand in their way
versed helm
Hahaha, that would be fun to see
tall moat
Yeah can’t wait to see what fun things 343i creates with Grunt Goblins in Infinite
versed helm
I think having a war machine-like enemy could bring forward the idea of how resourceful Spartans can be: Firepower vs training kind of deal
tall moat
Wouldn’t be surprised to see an upsized Noob Combo loadout tbh
versed helm
The super-needler was cool to see
tall moat
We already have Hunters/Knights I guess
versed helm
for firepower?
tall moat
But the Covenant mech role still needs filling I guess
Yeah, Hunters and Knights are beasts in H5
versed helm
There's a lot of stuff already in Halo that they could shed some more light on, and make more interesting for sure
tall moat
Especially Forerunner vehicles now that they’ve unleashed the Phaeton
versed helm
Oh yeah, lots of creative ideas for stuff like that
Did you ever play the game frac/ture?
tall moat
No, haven’t heard of it either
versed helm
Oh, it's a game that has a focus on controlling the environment
A third-person shooter, but you can control the surface for some interesting kills
tall moat
Ah Forerunner constructs would definitely have the capacity to do that
versed helm
imploding or inflating the ground, maybe they could allow a Phaeton to have that ability
tall moat
Would screw with the map big time lol
versed helm
Oh yeah hahaha
tall moat
I wouldn’t mind some hardlight based ground attacks though
versed helm
Maybe something like in Halo Legends where you can combine firepower with other vehicles
tall moat
When did that happen in Legends again?
versed helm
In Origins
Yeah, Origins part I where Cortana is talking about the forerunner history
tall moat
Oh I remember, and they were wielding weird hand energy weapons?
versed helm
Yeah, that too
tall moat
I guess it’d be cool if you could link multiple vehicles for increased damage
versed helm
Remember those neutral sentinel stations in the first Halo Wars?
tall moat
If Warzone maps weren’t so cramped, I could imagine it
versed helm
Maybe you could get access to certain sentinel variants, and make different combinations for certain abilities
I'm not even sure WZ will be in Infinite, honestly
tall moat
Sounds like Black Ops 3 lol
I’m sure a Very Big Team Battle mode will be present, even if it’s just an expansion of current BTB
versed helm
I hope so, but how different that will be to Warzone I guess we can't tell
But that sentinel idea actually seems like an exotic blend between progression and map control
Imagine encounters where this guy has two little Sentinels following him all the time
until he dies, of course
tall moat
I don’t know, sounds like it would be better as a map feature
Press this button to get a friendly Sentinel Swarm
versed helm
That's what I was thinking
tall moat
Would make sense in the Warzone-like mode only
e.g. Capture the Spire and gain access to its defenses
tall moat
Capture the Fortress and get Wolf Spiders from Reach
versed helm
It could encourage the player to explore the map for more sentinel stations and play around with the variety of forerunner abilities
tall moat
Capture the Temple and get those Snowbound automated plasma cannons
versed helm
Hahahhaha
tall moat
Right now, the bases are really boring with no defenses or real contents inside
They’re basically empty
versed helm
Yeah, that could really spice thing up, potentially
the longer you control a base, the more friendly sentinels spawn, maybe?
tall moat
Nah sounds like it would snowball
versed helm
I mean, Tim Longo is still there, maybe he could influence some sort of command system with those guys
tall moat
They would replenish only if they are destroyed
versed helm
yeah, there would have to be some cap to the amount
each base could have different sentinel variants to gain certain abilities
tall moat
Yeeee the AI aspect of Warzone needs to be improved
versed helm
I'm not sure if it's my bias, but having enforcer and retriever sentinels as WZ bosses sounds really really fun
tall moat
I want to be able to requisition a Marine gunner or passenger for 1 point
versed helm
Yeah, that's actually an awesome idea
tall moat
ODSTs for 2? 😏
tall moat
Holy crap that’s awesome
versed helm
AI that follow you? Hell yeah
tall moat
If I can ever request a Helljump in a Halo game I will die of happiness
Completely free and not scripted
versed helm
I actually wrote down that idea on my phone a little while ago
tall moat
Not bad, looks like H4’s unconventional design has hope yet
All this MTX, RNG, Supply Drops, Loadouts stuff could be kept to the Warzone successor mode
versed helm
Exactly what I mean by Halo having useful stuff that's elusive at first glance
tall moat
Might deviate a bit too much from the core Halo arena experience though :/
versed helm
That's the yin and yang of Halo, I guess
just looking through my notes now
Yeah, Locust mini-bosses coming out of the ground sounds awesome
many opportunities there
tall moat
If there’s ever a Battlefield-esque Halo spinoff, we know what to do
Scarabs and Locusts can tunnel through terrain, while Forerunner vehicles can completely phase through em
UNSC, get your mountaineering gear on, cuz they have nothing
versed helm
Locusts could also have the ability to climb on walls
tall moat
Dang that would have to be one big map
versed helm
They have been open to the idea of a larger-scale game for this one
tall moat
Such a game would make me so happy
versed helm
Smaller things could make for some endless fun, too
Have I told you about my idea of hunter assassinations before?
versed helm
Oh, just my thoughts on how they would look
tall moat
And how would they?
versed helm
I was thinking you dodge a strike from their shield with a backflip, yank the shield out of their arm, then throw it back into the colony's midsection, bisecting it
tall moat
Maybe swivel and slash the midsection instead, doesn’t seem like throwing something at that range would be possible
This is basically the Warden Eternal assassination, no?
versed helm
Oh, maybe you would jump off the hunter with the shield by your side, but land a few meters away and deliver it back to the hunter violently
Maybe include your thrusters to make hat seem more feasible
tall moat
Would be cool, but let’s get back to discussing vehicular mayhem 😈
tall moat
Imagine having vehicles ranging from
LRVs: Mongoose, Ghost
FAVs: Revenant, Warthog
Troop Carriers: Shadow, Mastodon
Mechs: Mantis, Locust
Exoskeletons: Cyclops, Goblin
Tanks: Scorpion, Wraith
Fighters: Banshee, Hornet
Gunships: Phaeton, Falcon
Dropships: Phantom, Pelican
Super-Units: Scarab, Mammoth
versed helm
Wait, using a Goblin?
tall moat
Hell yeah
versed helm
Damn, sounds awesome
tall moat
If a game contained anywhere remotely near this amount of vehicles at a huge scale, I’d die satisfied
versed helm
I think the Mammoth is maybe too big to not be a rail-based vehicle, but I could be wrong
versed helm
Why has no one I know spoken of a missile-hog?
Like retractable missile-battery on the side for the driver, as well as the turret
tall moat
Because Hog variants are overrated
Eh we already have SO MANY in H5, and that’s partly 343’s fault
versed helm
Really? I never really hear people talk about them
Oh yeah, I forgot about the WZ stuff haha
tall moat
Rockethog sort of covers that role, especially if they gave it lock on capabilities, which I think the ONI variant can acquire on all vehicles
versed helm
what about the driver weaponry?
tall moat
Hmm Hog drivers have never had armaments though
versed helm
Maybe it could work like the gungoosse did
tall moat
Lol but that was an entirely unarmed vehicle
Putting rocket pods on the side of a Hog seems like overkill
versed helm
Yeah, I miss the revenant
tall moat
It had the best vehicles, weapons, and defenses as a whole
versed helm
Maybe have a revenant/seraph hybrid? Like how the banshee can switch weapons?
tall moat
Ye the revenant always seemed kinda vulnerable not having a secondary
It might overlap with the Wraith too much then
versed helm
How so? i don't remember any wraiths having a secondary for the driver
wait, that's a good idea
tall moat
The plasma cannon for the gunner i mean
versed helm
a secondary for the wraith like the H2 scorpion
tall moat
The revenant DOES have an empty passenger seat
versed helm
I wouldn't really compare that to a secondary autocannon, but you have a point
tall moat
Oh yeah the Wraith turret is more independent of the mortar
versed helm
I was always dissapointed that I coudn't use that as a kid like the NPCs could
tall moat
You’re talking about the H2 one?
versed helm
Yeah
tall moat
Dual auto-targeting plasma cannons would be pretty OP though
tall moat
SPOILER ALERT
Just finished Bad Blood, and I’ve quite a bit to say.
-The part where Buck makes up with Mickey (p.286) is reminiscent of Lord Hood addressing Thel Vadam at the Voi Memorial... the dialogue as well as the handshake, nice parallel:
‘I can’t promise you anything. But I’ll do the best I can.’ - Buck
‘I can't forgive you. But... you have my thanks, for standing by him to the end.’ - Hood
Inspirational.
-OMG Buck and Dare got married by Roland (AI bae, one of the few who didn’t turn), surrounded by their teammates in a homely bar on humanity’s last bastion of hope. So sweet. Sadie and Quick to Adjust’s moment after the Guardian escape, awww, who woulda thought a human and a Huragok could form such a relationship, albeit induced.
Forbeck really knows how to tug at those heartstrings.
-Where do you think the planet Alpha-Nine are on in the epilogue is? Sounds like the Planet of Red and Blue if you ask me, and it’s pretty cool that the cover art shows the epilogue and not action. Also, possible clue to the start of Infinite; what appears to be the band of a Halo ring can be seen in the background at the top.
All in all, a worthy sequel to New Blood. 8.5/10
last anchor
I figured it was the Planet of Red and Blue too. Fittingly enough.
We know it had Forerunner structures on it
versed helm
Red and blue?
severe elbow
It's actually the Planet of Blue and Red, but I can barely remember the right order for the name.
https://www.halopedia.org/Planet_of_Blue_and_Red
last anchor
I doubt it matters too much, the Sangheili probably called it that too while the San'Shyuum called it he other
modest marsh
And so began the Sangheili-San’Shyuum war
versed helm
It was also inhabited by an unknown bipedal race that we barely have any info on other than that their stone ruins contained carvings that suggests that they had knowledge of the Forerunners
Which brings up a question...how did this race die out?
Maybe like
The array?
Or the dark times
severe elbow
Races just die a lot of the times.
Pretty sure that's how Denning said Netherop's race died out.
versed helm
Or that unknown race that sent that signal that GS discovered just as the Halo Array was fired near the end of Halo Silentium
rotund pewter
One message removed from a suspended account.
last anchor
They confirmed it wasnt Covenant
100,000 years is a long long time after all
Humanitys barely been around for 2000 ish, plus or minus a bit
tall moat
Wow why would they not call it the Planet of Red and Blue in keeping with RvB
Still love the novel for that mirror of H3’s epilogue and that warm, fuzzy feeling I got from the final chapters 😌
versed helm
Same..i love Broken Circle
hexed stratus
So... humanity's official population at the start of the war was 38 billion. By the end of the war, there had been 23 billion casualties. Osman states that a 'few billion'
died during the Battle of Earth, so before the battle of Earth there had been about 20 billion casualties
So humanity or at least the UEG was at a population of roughly 18 billion right before the Battle of Earth
I'll add a billion on for population growth during the war
My research says that about 10% of the US population served in its armed forces during WWII, which I'll use here
So the UNSC was probably 1.5-2 billion strong right before/during the Battle of Earth
Assuming similar divisions to the US military, the UNSC Navy would be roughly 300mil-500mil strong
Now here comes the issue: Stalwart-Class Light Cruisers have approximately 500 personnel, and I'm gonna assume Marathon-Class Heavy Cruisers have approximately 2000-2500. The Home Fleet had 8x Marathon and 67 x Stalwart = 20 000 + 33500 = 53 500
versed helm
thats alotta damage
hexed stratus
Now I know population doesn't necessarily correlate with industry - so the number of ships available - but it is safe to say that these numbers just DON'T add up at all and the Home Fleet should be so much bigger?
grizzled marsh
Wait, what's the source for that 38 billion population stat?
grizzled marsh
Thank you, I'll give that a read.
hexed stratus
I've been watching and reading too much WWII stuff (Band of Brothers) and now I'm far too invested in knowing everything about every possible unit on the field and all their command hierarchies
versed helm
Lots of marine bois and 1 big green spartan boi
hexed stratus
that's basically the games' approach!!!!
versed helm
Don’t forget 1 blue glowy whamen
hexed stratus
Taking into account those contemporary figures and the lore as we know it, I've decided that 500 million soldiers serve in the UNSC Army come late 2552 and that 300 milion are stationed on Earth
rotund pewter
One message removed from a suspended account.
One message removed from a suspended account.
One message removed from a suspended account.
One message removed from a suspended account.
tall moat
Most of the colonies did not get glassed
There are plenty of planets to settle out there
Or resettle
tall moat
And glassing the whole planet is rare, and time-consuming, if I’m not wrong
last anchor
Exceedingly time consuming
humble yacht
@dire egret keep things appropriate please. Also, that was not an actual line from the novel. It was hoax
dire egret
Fair
versed helm
Lol
fair hazel
i dont trust the reach datapads on it
red trellis
Does anyone know how big a sangheili legion is?
last anchor
They dont have legions
Sangheili dont have human-equivilent ranking and organization structures because, shocker, they aren't human
red trellis
A Legion is a division of many Sangheili warriors which is usually led by a high ranking officer, such as a Zealot or an Ultra.
Known Legions
Combat Legions
Dn'end Legion
Warrior Crèches
N'Noro Warrior Crèche
E'Toro Warrior Crèche
R'Lan Warrior Crèche
last anchor
Oh, the singluarly-mentioned combat units from Ghosts of Onyx?
Yeah no one knows. Since they...literally only existed in Ghosts of Onyx
Im not even sure if they're technically called legions anymore.
red trellis
I don’t know I’m trying to get an idea of how big they where but nothing gives hints
They couldn’t be to big because they where on the ships.
last anchor
One of those ships was an assault carrier remember
red trellis
So would a legion have a lance, levy, file, and pack.
versed helm
Wasn't it 39 billion people
night tulip
Something around there yeah
limpid kernel
How come there were still bodies not infected in high charity?
tall moat
Halo 2 or Halo 3?
versed helm
I'm betting that they became part of the Gravemind
tall moat
H2, the infestation had only recently begun, H3, I think the Elites ventured into High Charity as part of some strike team
versed helm
But back to the population thing...wouldn't it also take into account the population growth from 2511 to 2525 and the population growth from 2525 to 2553
So maybe humanity's population was higher than 39bil
tall moat
Wow 39 billion is nothing for a 500 year gap
I’d expect our pop to be in the hundreds of billions
versed helm
And iirc..a lot of outer colonists had unregistered births
limpid kernel
I don't think the brutes would have tried to go back to high charity if they knew what happened to it. And I don't think they'd have time either
versed helm
I'm also gonna question why humanity needed 800 planets
tall moat
It’s a whole planetoid
They could’ve had some kind of secret mission that will be expanded upon in another story
versed helm
It would also explain the dead ODSTs
tall moat
Yea and the pelican... sorta