My guess is she could be trying to take control of the Array to prevent them from being used on the populace, not so that she can use them herself (Which she can't anyway since she is only an AI)
#lore-and-universe
carmine sleet
severe elbow
I think her goals are genuine, I just think she's off kilter and not really cured. She really thinks enforcing peace the way she is is the correct answer. However, the Warden Eternal clearly has his own goals, so I think he'll betray her at some point.
white idol
They did say only fragments of her made it to genesis
So that probably had a play in her being somewhat looney
night tulip
Her reasoning and goals are sound, but her methods arent?
severe elbow
No her methods are terrible, but Cortana clearly believes that the ends justify the means.
night tulip
yes thats what im thinking
carmine sleet
She ultimately wants galactic peace, that's not a bad goal, but, just like Def Guru said, the methods she uses aren't the right way to go about it
severe elbow
In her mind, if this works, the galaxy will have an everlasting utopia. To her millions of lives are a small price to pay.
night tulip
guess she hasnt seen winter soldier
severe elbow
Well, we never got to see if HYDRA's plans would actually work.
white idol
I mean Cortana sounds pretty angry at her creators here
So unless she's saying that just to stall the warden then revenge might be a large part of what she did in guardians
She does seem to have an axe to grind with Halsey in particular
severe elbow
Her rampancy heightened her some of her anger that was certainly present in life, but wasn't a real part of her personality.
Like, if you love your mom, but she does something that you hate. That one thing won't affect your opinion of her, but something like rampancy drags that up and multiplies it.
night tulip
well Hydra got stopped by a super soldier in a blue suit
so this time
Cortana will be stopped by a supersoldier in a green suit
white idol
Hmm true
LOL
I really do hope she isn't on the way to an irredeemable villain arc though
Cortana is a pretty cool character
night tulip
Dr. Zola said trying to take freedom away with force isnt advised, the people resist
white idol
If I were to guess she'll probably sacrifice herself at the end of halo 6 to stop some other outside antagonist
white idol
Well
She certainly can
Forerunner tech is OP
And she's convinced basically all the AI to join her soo
There's not much resisting to be done really
night tulip
thats true... but then again Chief is also OP with plot armour and forerunner Geas
white idol
Geas?
carmine sleet
I don't think introducing another antagonist in Infinite would help with the story of that game, it'd be easier to just wrap up what's been set up with H5 and then bring in a new antagonist in whatever's next
white idol
Hmm perhaps
What do you guys think is the likelihood of Cortana making it through halo 6 and ending up a good guy again
severe elbow
Zilch.
white idol
Lol
severe elbow
If they do that, then all meaning in her death in Halo 4 is gone.
white idol
Going the Pyrrha approach with RWBY eh
severe elbow
It was lessened by her return, but 5 made it seem that she wasn't going to return to the fold, so 4 still functions as a goodbye.
white idol
Hmm true
She was really really different in Halo 5 too
Especially with how mean she was to Team Osiris
"mean" is probably an inadequate term
Didn't she taunt Holly with her PTSD or something
severe elbow
Yeah.
white idol
That wasn't really neccessary was it
night tulip
well i mean
that was kinda the halsey in her
halsey disregards most spartan IVs as being actual spartans
cortana had respect for buck in that dialogue, but thats abut it
night tulip
OH BOI
carmine sleet
There's allot
night tulip
II's were kidnapped at six by Dr. Halsey
to be the greatest warriors humanity has ever seen
and to put down the insurection
severe elbow
IIs were abducted and indoctrinated children. IVs are consenting adult volunteers.
night tulip
IIs had way more intensive augmentations, and half of them died
night tulip
alot
severe elbow
Made them superhuman.
severe elbow
Unbreakable bones, super strength, slower perception of reality...
white idol
Flip tanks WITHOUT armor?
severe elbow
No, flipping tanks even in armor is just a gameplay element.
night tulip
and they were trained from six with every available source of information on warefare
white idol
Shame the whole strategic training wasn't seen much in halo games
night tulip
they started fighting in the human covenant war at 14
John was 6 foot 10 after augmentation
7 foot 2 in armour
Sam even larger
night tulip
Blue team had their first mission against the covenant in 2525
ehrm
its complicated
night tulip
loll yes
versed helm
how fares those wares
white idol
How come she's also "spartan iv's are not real spartans" then
versed helm
cause they werent based on her research
severe elbow
Because she wasn't involved in their development.
night tulip
very fare
severe elbow
She feels the same way about IIIs.
white idol
Ah
versed helm
indeed
night tulip
The IVs are also... different mentally
versed helm
they're just normal soldiers
technically
S-IV are closer to how the original S-I's are
night tulip
the II's mentality can be summed up by Chiefs line in halo 4
versed helm
just soldiers picked from the main flock
carmine sleet
And in Reach, we she Halsey was mad that Mjolnir armour was given to a group that weren't her Spartans as well
night tulip
Our duty as soldiers is to protect humanity whatever the cost
the IIs were kinda machines
white idol
Chief's line?
versed helm
not really
white idol
The "duty is to protect the people" one?
night tulip
no
white idol
o
night tulip
its at the end of halo 4
obviously you had people like Kelly, Jai, Josh who were rebellious in the II program but
versed helm
just because they're dissociative doesnt mean they're machines
carmine sleet
They're still people in the armour
night tulip
which is why i said kind of
night tulip
from an outsiders percepective looking in, yes
versed helm
no
night tulip
Forward Unto Dawn, and Halo 4
night tulip
the cadets question if its a robot guiding them, and cortana questions if chief is really the machine
white idol
AHhh I saw some stuff yeah
versed helm
the cadests asked that because mjolnir
white idol
The Spartan II's basically weren't humans anymore
night tulip
not to that extent
severe elbow
No, they weren't that far gone.
They are still human, just stunted by what was done to them.
versed helm
they're equated more to having personality disorders than being machines
white idol
And he had no more fighting to do?
night tulip
retire...
severe elbow
There'd still be stuff for him to do.
night tulip
he does
severe elbow
They Chief wouldn't really cope with retirement that well with how he currently is.
night tulip
but
white idol
Or does that have to do with spartan genetic engineering and stuff
Oh yeah definitely
night tulip
not as fast as normal humans
severe elbow
Though Spartan-IIs Maria and Randall were able to live normal lives, so he has a chance.
night tulip
^
night tulip
ONI cant have assets like that in the civilian world
white idol
Wow ok
versed helm
ONI would use them for intelligence gathering
obsidian thistle
Maria however is in reserves
versed helm
Randall Aiken retired out
severe elbow
Well, he technically deserted.
versed helm
the only reason he wasnt fully "decommissioned" was because he killed off the wetworks operatives
severe elbow
Then cut a deal with Parangosky to be left alone.
severe elbow
? No he wasn't.
versed helm
so logically it's understandable he grew accustomed to his life
i thought he was
o...
nvm
obsidian thistle
I'm still sad the only known Spartan 2.1 is dead.
versed helm
i was thinking of something else
severe elbow
No, he was left behind on Vodin and taken in by the local populace.
versed helm
yeah. got mixed up
he didnt want to go back because he fell in love with a local
and had a daughter
obsidian thistle
I still wonder if the mother died from Complications due to Randalls augs.
white idol
Oh so Aiken got his augmentations reversed
Because what
ONI was afraid of him going rogue?
versed helm
mostly, yeah
only the physical implants were removed though to my knowledge
since chemical ones cant be reversed
carmine sleet
Did anything like that happen with any 1.1s when they were born @obsidian thistle ?
versed helm
given what we know about them, it's likely each one had complications during childbirth
or required caesarean sections
obsidian thistle
1.1s were suspected to be born normal but were given minor augs at birth.
carmine sleet
Ah, I see
obsidian thistle
But nothing concrete bar the effects are there
versed helm
yeah. i'd like to have a novel or two about them
more info
and such
would be neat
obsidian thistle
By all means it could be something that was passed down
versed helm
wait, what...the traits of their augmented parents?
the ones that altered the DNA structure of the parent were passed down
obsidian thistle
We dont know the full augs of Phase 2 Orion
versed helm
they underwent procedures to let them develop normally
obsidian thistle
By all means some stuff done to the Orion candidates were able to be passed down
Cant really confirm however
1.1s are a mystery
versed helm
yeah.
obsidian thistle
The Halopedia article on them runs a few assumptions I have to fix up
versed helm
and the wikia has more speculative (and possibly less reliable information)
The children of the ORIONs are sometimes referred to as Spartan 1.1s, reflecting the retroactive application of the SPARTAN-I moniker. There are sixteen Spartan 1.1s, including Janissary James and Kevin Morales.[23] Due to their parents' augmentations, the Spartan 1.1s had to receive injections in order to ensure normal growth without defects.[18] A small vigilante group of Spartan 1.1s, seemingly led by Kevin Morales, formed a plan to fight the Covenant. However, before this could come to fruition, the Covenant invasion of Earth began.[24]
from Halopedia article on S-I's
night tulip
Hmm
Doesn’t explicitly say any augmented traits were passed down, but it doesn’t say they weren’t either
“Normal growth”
Could mean traditional growth, or like normal growth for an Orion canadiaten
versed helm
as in not exponentially expedited
we dont want a 2m tall 7 yo
who hit puberty at 5
the amount of physical strain on the body could be crippling
night tulip
Lol
versed helm
especially considering growth spurts occur and change 300-ish bones to 206
it could quite literally put the child in a disabled state for their entire life
halcyon sierra
Noble six is still alive in a cave on Reach
last anchor
You'r about three weeks late to the "dead as Six" meme train mate
You know they've already recolonized Reach right?
They'd have found him by now.
feral perch
Caves are cave-y for a reason
They're difficult to find
If Infinity hides in a cave, Cortana will never find them
limpid kernel
potent egret
i feel like Halo Reach is showing us the loosing side for the UNSC. its meant to be a sad story, it makes the UNSC look like they are at an embarrassing standstill rather than playing the Master Chief's halos and feeling like you're the piercing knife going into the Covenant's gut. so reach the most unique Halo that is out there. although all halos are unique in a way that can't be described, Reach takes the cake on that one.
last anchor
Too bad they skipped over the lore Nylund put down and weve had to work around it ourselves...
warped fiber
The problem is that to be Honest, Bungie and many of the writers of the Bungie era books were not very knowledgeable of military and how they utilized their equipment.
Yeah the UNSC and their stuff looked cool, but none of their weapons and vehicles were realistic or practical. Employing WW1 and 2 style tactics and even tech. To be honest, nothing the UNSC used a real military would ever consider employing.
As someone who served in the US Army and did 2 tours in Iraq, there is a lot of moments in the early halo media that made me facepalm. Especially halo fall of reach and First strike.
last anchor
Is tha why The Flood feels so weirdly out of context with Nylunds books?
Cause it was written by an actual veteran?
Mind you most of First Strike involves Spartans and you cant deploy Spartans the same way you deploy normal soldiers, thats just a total waste
carmine sleet
That's not proof Six is alive, that's a meme people are already tired of
last anchor
Using that meme on this Discord should be punishable by heretical branding.
We'd get a literal army of human Arbiters
humble yacht
I don’t know about that.
last anchor
Come on, you don't want a bunch of sacrifical computer nerds willing to do your bidding for a chance at honor again?
I mean it worked for the High Prophets pretty well. Till Thel anyway
humble yacht
Eventually there’s always a thel
orchid kettle
I still feel like Noble Team would have worked better as just 4 people maximum
orchid kettle
Perhaps have the super charismatic nice guy be the leader.
That way its a big dealio when he’s the first to drop dead
According to Kurt, the III’s combat training is superior
And before you go and pull the “experience” card
The IIs were apparently beating ODSTs as literal 8 year olds
So experience doesnt mean squat, apparently
last anchor
Yes, its superior. But it was all about team work and four-six man teams.
So Noble operating as a six man team just makes sense
orchid kettle
What do you think the II training was about
If not teamwork
Literally the first thing they do is split into teams of three
last anchor
It was less about teamwork than the IIIs was. Because each individaual III is less capable than an individual II
So they make up for it with teamwork
orchid kettle
It really wasnt
Nylund had the Spartans all acting as part of a single unit under John
Silent Storm also states, via Halsey, that a single Spartan-II is 1/16th as effective as a 4 man team
last anchor
Yeah, but each II is still better than each III
Also really why would you want a smaller team when you can have a larger one?
orchid kettle
Who cares about power levels
last anchor
Whats your real issue with the six man team
Not any of this, what actually bothers you about it
orchid kettle
Because a conversation can only reasonably accommodate 3 people before others are sidelined
And just having 4 would allow the characters to be better defined
Like, what does Jun bring to the table in terms of character?
He makes cooking jokes once or twice
Otherwise he is totally forgettable
But hey, if you say, took the compassion and charisma of Jorge and made that the traits of the leader character
last anchor
Yet ironically enough hes the one who survives
orchid kettle
Keep Kat, but include the backstory that her and the leader banged before
As opposed to fans only knowing that via the developer commentary
last anchor
Oh joy, thats canon.
Wonderful
orchid kettle
And have Emile, but his beef isnt with Jorge, but with the player character
And the leader is really the only one who can rein him in
Which is why Noble's dynamic would become tense after his passing
Like, imagine the scene where Six is being attacked by the Elite Zealot in first person
But its Emile trying to beat your face in because he thinks you got his only friend killed
The dude's SUPPOSED to be kinda mentally unhinged, but you dont really see that outside of him shouting aggressively at civilians
fair hazel
that doesn't seem great... him attacking you,
fair hazel
for it being badÉ
orchid kettle
Not just the second fleet showing up and laying waste
But Noble crumbling
But then it'd be this whole redemption thing when Emile eventually sacrifices himself for your sake
It'd be this neat lil thing called a character arc
Crazy, I know
orchid kettle
Hey, if Forbeck can take an established character like Mickey and turn him traitor
I dont see whats wrong with taking the dude who's arleady supposed to be crazy
And make him actually be crazy
Because Reach's story makes a lot of promises that it just doesnt keep
"You're stepping into some shoes that the rest of the squad would rather leave unfilled."
That line doesnt really lead to anything
Sure they're a bit rude at first
But it doesnt go anywhere
Less characters in general would also mean that death scenes could retain a bit more of their impact
I think everyone started rolling their eyes when Carter went to sacrifice himself, since we already had two deaths at that point and it just felt like everyone was being crossed off of a list
humble yacht
I enjoyed Carter’s exit
orchid kettle
I would enjoy Carter more if they actually mentioned his previous relationship with Kat
orchid kettle
Because that places all their interactions in a new context
Particularly how its Carter who's carrying her body out of the bunker
But, ya know. Instead its just an off-hand comment in the dev commentary
At the very least, the data pads could have been used to further expand on Noble's character
Like, Sadie's Story explains what Vergil is
But the datapads in Reach about the Assembly dont really elaborate on the events of the game itself
Would have been perfect to include what Thom, the previous Noble Six, was like in said datapads
And see what his relationship was like with the rest of the team, and why they were so attached to him that they didnt want someone taking his place
Heck, even Halo 4's terminals explain the origins of the Didact
I mean, they get overwritten by Silentium later on, but they're still relevant to the immediate story
modest marsh
The IIs were apparently beating ODSTs as literal 8 year olds
When did this happen?
orchid kettle
Silent Storm
modest marsh
I’d need to reread but I remember nothing of the sort
orchid kettle
The IIs faced off against an entire company of ODSTs for a training exercise when they were 8
and whooped them
modest marsh
No, that was during the events of the book
orchid kettle
No
Whatshisface tells Chief that he knows hes only 15 years old or so
BECAUSE he heard of 8 year olds beating up ODSTs
And put two and two together
modest marsh
You’re going to need to give me a specific quote
“You and your Spartans started banking recruit pay eight years ago,” Crowther said. “That means either you’re all a hell of a lot older than nineteen—or you entered training when you were eleven.”
He said this, anything additional would seem redundant
orchid kettle
"I had a buddy in the ODSTs who used to train against these eight-year-old kids on Reach. They kept kicking his company's (butt) in jungle manuevers. It was probably them."
orchid kettle
You realize they're still literal 8 year olds
fair hazel
spartans
orchid kettle
and at that point, would have only been training for two years
You cant just say "Spartan" like they're friggin demigods
modest marsh
Sure, but it’d been established early on they had quickly acclimated to those skills
orchid kettle
More than the decade-long special forces veterans?
modest marsh
You’re assuming
orchid kettle
I mean,
according to the ODST field manual
ODSTs are (or were before the Covenant) recruited from OTHER Special FOrces units
They're the best of the best
modest marsh
We have no idea what level of proficiency this specific company has in an outdated theater of combat
orchid kettle
But nah. 8 year olds can whoop them
I mean, the author is clearly making this achievement out to be, ya know
An achievement on the part of the II
modest marsh
The ones in Silent Storm specialize in EVA operations
orchid kettle
Them being awful is kinda counterproductive to what the author is trying to achieve
modest marsh
So it has to be the best ODST company in the UNSC for them to have outmaneuvered in a specific training operation?
orchid kettle
Not to mention the fact that the Insurrection has been going on for some time at this point
Why WOULDNT the ODSTs know jungle warfare?
modest marsh
It’s not that they don’t
orchid kettle
Thats what you're saying
modest marsh
But there are degrees of proficiency
The UNSC operates in more theaters than any modern military
orchid kettle
Imagine being a space navy seal
and being so bad at your job that little kids too young to tie their own shoelaces can whoop you
modest marsh
Navy Seals specialize in mariner theaters
That’s not what happened though, you’re being disingenuous
orchid kettle
I think you're the one trying to attempt Olympic levels of mental gymnastics here
The author clearly intended to Chief and his friends to be so proficient as literal 8 year olds that they could defeat ODSTs, which have been stated on several occasions to be the best humanity had prior to proper Spartans
Otherwise, whats the point of calling attention to this event
modest marsh
An ODST would still cave in an eight year old Spartan’s skull
dense oyster
what the writer intended and what the writer accomplished will not always line up
modest marsh
You’re making an off hand statement more than it needs to be
orchid kettle
Heck, given how large Halo firearms are
Its a wonder that an 8 year old could even HOLD an assault rifle
LEt alone properly fire it
Its pretty not off-hand
Its the focus of an entire scene
That Nyeto knows of this event
That he knows that theres a bunch of little babies running around that could stomp ODSTs
And that he knows its the Spartans
modest marsh
It’s relevance to the plot is not what I was referring to
He does not elaborate or go into detail
The means of which by their success is not defined
orchid kettle
It really doesnt matter
orchid kettle
It really doesnt
A company could be as much as 200 dudes
Theres it very doubtful that the babies even outnumbered the ODSTs
modest marsh
Who said they faced off against all of them at once?
orchid kettle
And the literal special forces operators still lost
modest marsh
Lost in what?
orchid kettle
Nyeto calls them a company
modest marsh
We don’t even know their objective
orchid kettle
And says they lost in jungle warfare training
modest marsh
Or how the operation was framed
modest marsh
Or how many times the operation was run
orchid kettle
Actually, thats a good point Magg
Nyeto's language seems to indicate that they lost MULTIPLE times
modest marsh
out of how many?
modest marsh
Even if the ODST company had a positive win loss ratio, losing a few times is enough to make the instance notable
orchid kettle
Its good to know that whenever people insist that IIs are as good as they are thanks to their training or experience
We can just point to Silent Storm
Which suggests that they're just BORN as superior lifeform to which all mankind must yield
modest marsh
I mean
modest marsh
Quit insulting me
orchid kettle
Quit making up stuff that isnt there
Like, even if Grim hops on Canon Fodder and states otherwise
That really doesnt change what Denning's intention was in that chapter
modest marsh
You’re being immature and there is no need to insist on being so antagonistic
You’re proposal is that there is only one way to interpret this information when it is very obliviously and deliberately vague
orchid kettle
Theres also no need to write the author's excuse for them.
modest marsh
I can make my own interpretation to fit my views as they appeal to me
That’s the magic of books
orchid kettle
Theres a little thing called Occam's Razor
modest marsh
It’s fiction, not a historical account
orchid kettle
We of course can BELIEVE that Chief and the kids only made it through the training due to pure luck, like a branch falling from a tree knocking out a couple of Troopers
But thats not what is implied at all
modest marsh
Not to mention, this isn’t from a perfect narrator
This is literally rumors and figurative language being thrown around
orchid kettle
I mean, Chief doesnt disagree that they were beating up ODSTs as 8 year olds
Hes just alarmed that nyeto knows about it
fair hazel
keep it calm
modest marsh
He doesn’t disagree that he at one point performed well against a company of ODSTs
Even if what Nyeto said was inaccurate, it was cause for alarm
orchid kettle
"But the intel that Nyeto's friend had disclosed was far too accurate to be the result of casual speculation"
orchid kettle
"It was coming from someone on the inside, someone who was working with the Spartans themselves."
Sure. Totally vague
modest marsh
There was much more discussed there than “one time a buddy told me something or other”
orchid kettle
Like, Im sure Nyeto didnt ACTUALLY learn this from "a friend" given that he's kinda the traitor in this story
But the information itself isnt dispusted
Just how Nyeto got it
modest marsh
It isn’t disputed because if whatever inaccuracies were presented, they couldn’t be corrected without arousing suspicion
orchid kettle
I mean, except the whole point of that scene is that John ends up confirming Nyeto's suspicions by how he acts
"Those eight-year olds WERE you, werent they?"
"I didnt say that."
"You didn't have to,"
modest marsh
He doesn’t need to be telling the complete or entirely correct truth for the same conclusion to be made
orchid kettle
Except, once again
John calls the information too accurate to be mere speculation
But the work of an inside leak
orchid kettle
And tries to get the name of the ODST that told Nyeto
so he can report him
And he doesnt bat an eye when he's told said ODST died in OPTRE
modest marsh
The whole “they kept kicking our butts thing” is open ended enough to make several conclusions one way or another
orchid kettle
If the ODST event didnt transpire
He'd probably be suspicious of the whole "Oh, but he died fighting the innies"
I mean, sure I guess, if you deliberately attempt to avoid the obvious conclusion
Maybe he meant that the 8 year olds primary means of dispensing damage
WAS by kicking their bum cheeks
modest marsh
What’s obvious to you is apparently an eight year old Spartan can suplex a dozen ODSTs at once
Because of this one statement
Despite other similar statements from the same book contradicting this
orchid kettle
I mean, an 8 year old defeating a trained and experienced special forces operator in guerilla warfare is just as ridiculous if you ask me
modest marsh
Again, that is a groundless thing to say
orchid kettle
Except its not
modest marsh
We have no idea what they did
orchid kettle
Probably unconventional jungle warfare, given that they're training to fight Innies
and Innies arent exactly dudes in uniforms attacking with conventional army formations
modest marsh
You can imagine anything you want there that makes sense to you
orchid kettle
I mean hey man, if you want to deliberately avoid the obvious conclusion
By all means
modest marsh
It’s not about being obtuse on purpose, because guess what, that’s exactly what you’re doing by saying that the suggestion of what happened is specifically a certain way that is intrinsically plot-breaking
orchid kettle
Well, yeah
Because guess what
The Halo universe isnt REAL
It is at the whim of the person writing it at that moment
modest marsh
I am not being ridiculous by choosing to interpret fiction in a way that is ergonomic
orchid kettle
Hence why I said that Denning clearly intended for IIs to be so proficient as 8 year olds that they can defeat trained special forces operators
If something happens that goes against all common sense
Its likely because the author made an error
modest marsh
But that is clearly an inaccurate conclusion to make, because in the very same text we are told the contrary
orchid kettle
And it wasnt ironed out in the editing process
I mean, Nylund did the same thing
He said IIs could lift 3 times their body weight, given Chief's weight as a full grown man thats around 950 pounds or so
Yet Chief also kicks a man in MJOLNIR Mark I a distance of eight meters away
And I dunno about you, but people generally cant kick their benchpressing max that far
modest marsh
Yes, I was about to mention the inaccuracies of Halo’s physics
orchid kettle
And they exist because they're ficitional
This is not a tangible, observable universe that we are glimpsing through via books and other media
modest marsh
I would argue that that is a much more egregious lapse of reasoning than a deliberately vague event that we as the readers are left to make our own conclusions about
orchid kettle
Its just imagination
And sometimes people's imagination doesnt line up with reality
Its really not vague at all
Like, the reason why 8 year olds beating ODSTs upsets me
modest marsh
It’s the definition of vague, all we know is that the Spartans did well against a company of ODSTs in an undefined mission objective
orchid kettle
Is because not only does it make these special forces operators even more of a punching bag than they were in Nylund's books
But because of their age, you cant even use the excuse that its thanks to their extreme training, augmentations, or armor
They're just BORN as superior lifeforms
Its really not
You're just choosing to pretend that it means nothing
white idol
I found that AMAZING theme stuck in my head
modest marsh
Halsey in the same book claims that the hard work they put into training the Spartans had paid off by the time they were eight
orchid kettle
Like, the most Nylund ever did when it came to children beating up fully grown adults was 75 kids chucking rocks at two men
Theres Tango Company, but Im pretty sure Chief and co were supposed to be far older than 8 in that flashback
modest marsh
12
orchid kettle
At least then, they're big enough to hold an assault rifle
And Tango Company COULD just be a bunch of schlubs that Halsey ported in for the sake of being the IIs punching bags
modest marsh
We were told that the Spartans were abnormally large for their age even at 8
orchid kettle
I mean, a head taller than your normal 8 year old
Would still be barely breaking 5 feet
if that
Yeah, like the average height of an 8 year old boy is 4'1"
With how 343 has chosen to shine a spotlight on the moral grayness of the Spartan-II program
Im surprised they chose to fully embrace the whole "Spartans were just BORN superior to the rest of mankind!", what with the later inclusion of the Librarian's geas, and the documentary of HtT choosing to play up the idea that John was born as the coolest guy in the world
feral perch
It is a little over-the-top.
But it's also very vague in Silent Storm, with just enough information to make you scratch your head.
orchid kettle
Like, I feel like as a piece of propaganda, framing John as a normal dude who decided to step up one day would work better in that fake Master Chief documentary
Inspire people with the tale of an average joe (Just like them!) becoming the hero of humanity
And motivate them to volunteer for the military
modest marsh
I’m pretty sure the idea is that they don’t need anyone to step up, because the UNSC will take care of you and you don’t need to worry about it
feral perch
I think I @'t the wrong person
orchid kettle
I mean, they HAVE recruitment posters on some of the Halo 5 maps
So the UNSC clearly WANTS more volunteers
modest marsh
Sure
feral perch
@orchid kettle
orchid kettle
Not like it can hurt
feral perch
Okay yeah
orchid kettle
Especially because-- sure, the Covenant may be down for the count
modest marsh
But that’s not necessarily more important than proving the point to the rest of humanity that they have things under control
orchid kettle
But theres no shortages of bad guys in this big bad galaxy
feral perch
Why don't you write an alternate history of Halo? I'd read it.
orchid kettle
I mean, you can still have the whole "And then Chief appeared in New Mombasa and single-handedly saved the day!"
I just think it would work better as a piece of motivational media if they framed Chief as a rags to riches story
Which contrasts with his TRUE origins of just being born with the potential "to be the next Alexander the Great"
modest marsh
The main threat of post war UNSC is people thinking they can take things into their own hands
Both alien and human
The UNSC doesn’t want more Master Chiefs
orchid kettle
I mean, they're apparently playing up the whole "You could be a Spartan too!" with the recruitment posters you see in Halo 5
modest marsh
They want Spartans, sure, but not Master Chiefs, because there can only be one
feral perch
coughJeromecough
orchid kettle
I mean, whats the harm in making people want to enlist by insisting that they could be heroes too?
modest marsh
Portraying John as an everyman that the general public should aspire to replicate is a mistake
orchid kettle
Isnt that more or less what the actual US military does today
orchid kettle
...Why not?
Isnt Jesus' whole thing that he was just a carpenter
And he was humble and all that?
modest marsh
I’m not sure how that applies to Master Chief
orchid kettle
I mean, people believe that Chief is the "reincarnation" of Bornstellar or whatever. Or they did for a while
feral perch
As a Christian I can say that that is really not relevant or even the most important point so
orchid kettle
and Librarian insist that the geas was for the sake of creating him
Or at least, warriors like him
But seriously, what IS the reason that you wouldnt want people to believe that they could become heroes as well?
modest marsh
There are religious connections, but Christianity isn’t the only religion that incorporates messianism or reincarnation
orchid kettle
I would imagine that America wouldnt love underdog stories if that was the case
modest marsh
There can be other underdog stories
orchid kettle
And it cant be Chief because...?
Like, the reason why I think framing Chief's story as an underdog tale would work
Is because it would "enhance" the lie
It would imply that millions enlisted with hopes of being just like their hero
Never realizing that Chief was BORN genetically superior to the rest of us
feral perch
If everyone is trying to be a hero, what about all of the little people, such as those who handle logistics? Everyone can't do the same thing, you need supporting roles.
orchid kettle
and never had a normal upbringing
Also, if someone DOES manage to become "the next Master Chief"
Isnt that a good thing?
feral perch
That's a problem that the canon has applied to the Sangheili
orchid kettle
Doesnt that just mean Humantiy gets a new hero to be inspired by after Chief's time has passed?
modest marsh
In HtT, an area of concern is the potential fallibility with someone with as much influence as the Master Chief
orchid kettle
The Sangheili have the whole "We're only warriors!" issue common in alien/fantasy races
feral perch
Everyone wanted to be a glorious warrior in Sangheili culture, but the more ignominious roles, like doctor or cook, are looked down on
modest marsh
Narrative wise, consider the parallels with the Didact
orchid kettle
I mean, once again, DONT you want that?
Because some people surely see the spartans as just UNSC death machines
modest marsh
The Didact is essentially what the Master Chief is to humanity
orchid kettle
But if say, you see Jorge with his helmet off offering a helping hand to that girl cowering underneath the staircase
modest marsh
Except he used his authority irresponsibly in the end
orchid kettle
They'd probably think differently
Because thats the thing about "Superheroes"
Not that they'd just beat up whatever bad guy shows up
But that they'd save the people with an unshakeable smile
Ya know what Halo 4's story really needed?
The scene teased in the Scanned trailer
This idea that the Didact would merely capture Chief instead of killing him outright, and read his mind and learn his past
feral perch
Disagree
orchid kettle
Perhaps ya know, have some dialogue where the Didact questions why Chief bothers protecting the species that tore everything away from him
As opposed to just chucking Chief against a wall
and peacing out
feral perch
The Didact hated humanity too much to bother with them like that, I think..
orchid kettle
I mean, the Didact in Halo 4 is way too saturday morning cartoonish
And the only real explanation is that "he went crazy"
Which isnt really that interesting of a motivation to me
But imagine if the Didact had Cortana's goal in Halo 5, but at the get go
feral perch
I mean, if you read about the Greg Bear trilogy, it explains that
I haven't, but thanks Halopedia
orchid kettle
That he didnt want to KILL Humanity-- he just thought it was his duty to provide the galaxy with "guidance" after he learns about all the wars they have been waged in his absence
Like, imagine Halo 5's story
But you barely see Cortana at all
modest marsh
The Didact believes that humanity is a legitimate threat to Forerunner imperialism
orchid kettle
and you finally meet her at the end, only for her avatar to wink out and become the Didact
feral perch
The Didact hated humanity because of the human-Forerunner war
orchid kettle
Sure, but he didnt go around with a doomsday laser until he went crazy
He tolerated the two humans Bornstellar was hanging out with well enough
ANd by "well enough" I mean he didnt vaporize them on the spot
feral perch
There were no other Forerunners for him to care about in Halo 4
orchid kettle
Thats why I think it would be better if he had Cortana's goal in Halo 5
TO re-establish Forerunner control after the wake of destruction that was the COvenant war
While we're on Halo 5, I think the Warden Eternal would be cooler if he WAS the Didact Reborn
And actually made use of his new body being made up of a thousand tiny pieces to morph into new forms during boss fights
His WEAPON does that, but his body itself doesnt
orchid kettle
The Warden Eternal would probably be better as a boss fight if he had new forms everytime
I mean, the game opens up with a bunch of cyborg ninjas backflipping down a mountain
Lets just embrace the silly action at this point
Like imagine a Warden fight where every plate you shot off of him became a mini Warden
If you’re gonna make the Forerunners all about floating bits, take advantage of that style by allowing the bits to act in neat ways
Or like, have the Warden rip his arm off, and the plates fuse into each other and become a giant cannon
feral perch
That would be cool, although I think Halo 5's intro is the closest we might get to cinematic representations of Nylund's Spartan feats
orchid kettle
I mean, my issue with it is that it fails to communicate the idea that Osiris is a team
Rather than 4 individuals who happen to be posing next to each other
Their armor design fails at that as well
At least Blue Team looks like they more or less have the same type of armor, just with variations
feral perch
What do you think of Awakening the Nightmare?
obsidian thistle
Was a nightmare I was glad to have.
feral perch
stable drum
night tulip
I was like that too... but then H5 fell a bit short
But the opening scene itself was great
grizzled marsh
Blue Team's intro was really good too.
feral perch
Yesss
grizzled marsh
There are actually a lot of good things in Halo 5
The Sanghelios levels were definitely a treat.
fathom yacht
Honestly, i loved reach more thank any halo..
versed helm
They moved on with destiny smh
fathom yacht
True.
fair hazel
with the music
versed helm
Have it’s moments with unstable servers lol
Can barely find a game in arena playlists
fathom yacht
@versed helm i agree.
fair hazel
thats hardly pertinent to lore and universe discussion, and some things may be rebuked
fathom yacht
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSL1mvSEdAo this should be in Halo infinite.
fair hazel
thats not lore discussion
fathom yacht
So?
fair hazel
so if you keep continuing not posting relevant things on this channel, you might be removed from here.
fathom yacht
So what, they should and a off topic channel then, FYI.
fair hazel
you dont mind me kicking you then? Closest thing is general chat but its not full off topic
fathom yacht
Alright, Mr. director
last anchor
Ahhh more of the same.
I swear if we composed everyone who acted like a fool on this server, we could have an army of Prometheans strong enough to roll over Epic.
hexed stratus
Would love if someone from 343 replies to me with an official answer to this question: Where in Sydney is Bravo-6 located?
last anchor
No where, considering Cortana dropped a frigate from low orbit onto the city
Or, I suppose, in the middle of a smoking glass crater
last anchor
My guess is they didnt really plan that far ahead. Its just "in Sydney"
Also dont expect to hear from any of them RN, I think most are probably having a day off (I would hope)
hexed stratus
ah that's right, it's Sunday in the US of A
I'm lowkey writing a Battle for Sydney 'fanfic' of sorts taking place in October 2552 and I need to know where Bravo 6 actually is
last anchor
I woudlnt be too worried, if I remember right, there wasnt much ground fighting. The Covenant really just blasted the place from orbit
Halopedia might be helpeful tho
hexed stratus
I checked Halopedia, nothing specific there
the premise of my fan-fic is that the Covenant didn't want to destroy the city from orbit but instead sought to secure the city so they could capture the UNSC leadership and force a surrender
last anchor
Scratch that last part; the Covenant didnt want a surrender. They wanted humanity to DIE
Well, the Prophets made that the goal (because we were heretical for merely existing and also a danger too them)
Hence why they burned through most of New Mombasa to get to the Ark.
hexed stratus
yeah I was grappling with that and figured maybe they thought capturing the leadership would be an easier way to finish the war?
to force a 'surrender' then just finish us off anyway
I'm trying to rationalise why Bravo-6 is unscathed in the battle
last anchor
Its buried under several dozen feet of concerte, rebar, city above, and probably blast doors
They couldnt get to it because they didnt spent time there. New Mombasa called all their attention
That and the UNSC was busy in space perferating any ship that got too close with its ODPs
grizzled marsh
And depending on when you set it, they're fighting Chief and themselves.
hexed stratus
but in the comics there's images of Bravo-6 above ground too
and it's canon that the Covenant attacked numerous cities, not just New Mombasa
Boston and Sydney are the two big ones from memory
and I feel once Truth's Fleet arrived the ODPs weren't able to stop everything
grizzled marsh
Sydney, Cleveland and London I believe. None of them received the same damage as New Mombasa though. Which is due to the fact that New Mombasa housed the Ark's portal.
hexed stratus
Cleveland bingo
yeah I know
I feel like as the capital of the UEG, Sydney would never completely fall like New Mombasa did
that's part of the story I've envisioned
and in answer to your first point I've set it pretty much right after the end of ODST, because I think that's when the first ships of Truth's fleet arrives, and I figure that's when some of the Covenant ships that don't go to New Mombasa would go to Sydney, Cleveland etc.
last anchor
I vaugely remember hearing that a few ships hit one of the space elevators in the Pacific and also the west coast of America as well as Cleveland, plus Antartica and somewhere in Cuba I think
hexed stratus
oooh I'd never heard that before
need to figure out where Sydney's space elevators would be too
last anchor
Most of its mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx, Blue Team under Fred was jammin' across the globe putting the hurt on the Covies all over the place
I dont think Syndey has one
Most teathers are equitorial
hexed stratus
surely the capital of the UEG would have one
last anchor
New Mombasa, the "Black Stalk of Corn", the Centanial Elevator, the one in the Pacific
Nah
Mostly because, you know, its the capitol. If it fell...
(Points to the damage to New Mombasa)
Also Australia, Sydney especially, is too far south. The gravitational forces would make it almost unusable
hexed stratus
ahhhh yes very true
didn't even realise Mombasa was equatorial till I just looked it up on maps
grizzled marsh
There are five known elevators on Earth: New Mombasa, Havana, Borneo, Quito, and Aranuka
hexed stratus
is this all from Ghosts of Onyx?
last anchor
Not all of it, but a lot of the battle points were from it
grizzled marsh
Havana is. New Mombasa was H2/H3ODST, Quito was H3, Aranuka was Legacy of Onyx, and Borneo was H2A
last anchor
Of those above eleveators New Mombasa, Aranuka and Havana were destroyed. Borneo is unknown but Quito survived
Theoretically there might be a sixth one further along, somewhere in India, but we're not sure
hexed stratus
where in 3 and 2A are Quito and Borneo mentioned? how interesting that I never caught that
grizzled marsh
Quito was the map Orbital and Borneo was shown off in H2A's terminals
hexed stratus
yeah just watched the terminal then
there you go
ok cool sydney doesn't need an elevator very good
hexed stratus
I still like the idea that Sydney was the site of an epic ground battle though
the 'fan fic' is really my wish list for an ODST sequel, I was imagining that UNSC Canberra would swoop down into the city to provide fire support, engage the attacking Covenant cruisers, and drop her ODSTs into the city as her sister Say My Name did over New Mombasa
grizzled marsh
As far as we know, that's totally plausible. After it's mention in H2A, we don't know what happened to the Canberra so you are clear my friend.
last anchor
The dream, the dream
hexed stratus
it's a dream that spawned entirely from the wish of a game set during the war again
I miss the humanity as the underdog story
and the Reach and ODST vibes of nothing but UNSC vs Covenant
last anchor
You might get that in Infinite
hexed stratus
yeah we'll get underdog but I assume it'll still be the reclaimer saga/ vs. Cortana
blazing eagle
Rip
grizzled marsh
It is. It's already been confirmed that Cortana has taken over mostly everything and that we are now fighting back as a resistance.
Well, it was confirmed in Bad Blood.
last anchor
Ye.
hexed stratus
that should still be very fun
grizzled marsh
It will be interesting to see how the capitulated UEG will act. Like, will Cortana start creating new types of technology for them? Will all of their military assets be stripped away as Cortana attempts to bring peace?
last anchor
Infinity is on her own we know that for sure
hexed stratus
have you seen the speculation that the infinity's sister ship "Eternity" will feature strongly in the game?
the supply crates in the reveal trailer say "INF-002" which is Eternity's designation
last anchor
Either she will or they pulled waht they could from her because I dont think she's finished yet
grizzled marsh
I just watched the trailer and both INF-01 and 02 are there, so it's possible we will see or hear about Infinity and whatever ship is designated 02.
Good find to whoever found it though. I didn't even notice it before you mentioned it.
unique rune
Infinity is INF-101, if I remember correctly. If it says INF-002, I wouldn’t be sure of the Eternity making any appearances.
grizzled marsh
Yeah, we don't have any confirmation of what Eternity's designation is.
shrewd trout
I think it would still be INF-002 or INF-102 since it's an Infinity-class. But Navy dudes correct me if im wrong
unique rune
INF-102 would be my guess for the Eternity’s hull code.
202 or 201, maybe, but those sound unlikely.
last anchor
102 is most likely IMO
I hope against hope that Eternity shows up SOMEWHERE in the canon because I have this vision of a Gundam style merging ship thing where the two Infinity-classes dock hulls and share power and become THE UROBORUS
8 Forerunner enhanced MACs
shrewd trout
Im under the impression that Eternity is gonna' be in some development hell due to the Created taking over.
grizzled marsh
I wonder though, if the Infinity-class was originally a colony class, it's possible that Cortana could strip it's weapons away and finish it that way.
last anchor
Possible, but doubtful
shrewd trout
Isnt the MAC like half the ship?
last anchor
More than I think
Also, hey Sith, been a while
Havent seen you outside of Halopedia
last anchor
I feel
shrewd trout
but do you feel TheEld not adding categories to images he uploads onto Halopedia? I feel that. Cuz I always end up being the one to add them
last anchor
Yeahhhh. I do. I do.
I also feel like Halopedia focuses a bit too heavily on the lore and not so much on the gameplay stuff, cause some of the edits Ive made to REQ weapons listings are STILL THERE
shrewd trout
Yeah a lot of the gameplay stuff comes from me >.<
So I feel ya'
but gameplay stuff also changes a lot more than it used to
Heck an entire map changed its location
shrewd trout
John's always gonna' be born in 2511 but boy will that Storm rifle STK change in H5G
yeet I was thinking of Entombed
which I never got around to updating
soooo it still is asteroid
shrewd trout
But I'm honestly less worried about the gameplay stuff than I am some of the book stuff
I got used to Nighthammer doing all the heavy lifting
and I can only whip TheEld to be so fast
maybe there's some fresh meat on this discord
shrewd trout
gooooooood this pleases me greatly
shrewd trout
I really want to get Katie from Twitter to work on Halopedia since she has so much lore energy
last anchor
It could be doable.
shrewd trout
still waiting for GreenLeaf to update the Blue Team personality sections
since she was, critical, to say the least.
last anchor
The eternal grind...
severe elbow
If I had more time I'd help out on Halopedia.
last anchor
The grunt work
shrewd trout
I became an admin by doing grunt work
last anchor
It needs doing
shrewd trout
too bad Grim won't just do it for me 😐
last anchor
Man, if only.
The thing that really sucks is I changed my gamertag and now my profile on Halopedia wont connect anymore. You wouldnt know how to fix that would you?
shrewd trout
the gamertag thing is weird
Like it only shows 360 stuff
I'll have to ask Purplemontage about that
versed helm
Anyone wanna discuss the Halo CEA/Halo Reach map Solitary?
Looking at it..a race that we haven't encountered yet could've been imprisoned within that facility but looking at all the known species, it's possible that the Sharquoi could've been the being or beings that were imprisoned
shrewd trout
maybe it's the not-Space Bears
last anchor
My thought was the Sharquoi too considering the size of the enclosure
last anchor
Yeah thats the one
carmine sleet
I think there was speculation here last week on whether or not it was Sharquoi kept there too
versed helm
I'm going through the map right now and checked out the shattered window and those containment pods but is there anything else that i'm missing
last anchor
Nope. Its a one-one remake of Prisoner from the original CE, plus the shattered window
Considering there wasnt much lore for it originally I dont think theres much else your missing
versed helm
Isn't it kind of odd that the shattered window was facing inward instead of outward?
last anchor
I always figured whatever was inside tore it open and slipped through the crack.
That, or something from outside pushed it in to let the prisoner OUT
versed helm
Also..there's the location of the facility..from what i've read..it was located on a planet that orbits five suns
last anchor
Im not sure about that, all I know is that its frozen
versed helm
What do you call a planetary system that has 5 stars
last anchor
Quintary system?
versed helm
And i'm looking out the window right now and i see similar structures in the distance
last anchor
Theres multiple of them yes
Most likely wahtever this place is the Forerunners made it intentionally to house dangerous things
My original theory was some kind of Primordial-style creature but that seems much less likely now
versed helm
At this point..i'm thinking that it's a race that pissed off the Forerunners
last anchor
More than likely
versed helm
Correct me if i'm wrong but weren't the Forerunners known for wiping out races that piss them off
last anchor
To a certain extent yes
versed helm
You know..I've noticed something odd about the CEA terminals
last anchor
Do tell
versed helm
Isn't it kind of strange that Guilty Spark couldn't contact the other Monitors
last anchor
Not really. The Doman was flatlined by the Array pulse
And 100,000 years of undo dilligence will do a number even on Forerunner coms
versed helm
And also..what really happened to 049 Abject Testament?
last anchor
Not sure
versed helm
And now i'm watching the Terminal with that unknown ship and the obvious question would be...what species built that ship?
Because personally,I believe that it was built by an unknown race that inhabits the Milky Way Galaxy
Also...what animal is this?
That one amphibian or reptilian creature that got disintegrated by the Halo Array pulse as shown in the CEA terminals
carmine sleet
Unknown
versed helm
Not gonna lie but watching the CEA Terminals makes me sorry for Guilty Spark
Because being alone for 100k years on a galaxy destroying superweapon can really make a person go insane
Even for an AI like GS
night tulip
Yeah it’s depressing...
blazing eagle
Does this actually have lore in it or nah?
severe elbow
Does what have lore in it?
blazing eagle
This chat
severe elbow
Yeah, this chat is for lore discussion.
limpid meadow
But what's the lore of the chat?
blazing eagle
No I mean it seems like people use this as a second general chat
carmine sleet
Not really, I saw some people talking about the Terminals in Halo CEA earlier
limpid meadow
I'd say it's more accurate to say people use general chat as a second lore chat
humble yacht
That def happens sometimes
severe elbow
Yeah, this stays mostly on topic.
Any off topic-ness seems to stem off from comparisons of Halo to something else.
onyx vigil
Like titan fall for instance. JK
obsidian thistle
Well I am in box mode again. Getting lore off Crates
night tulip
Wait who’s that spartan who retired messily like Maria?
humble yacht
Randall?
limpid meadow
It would have to be. They are the only two to retire in any manner
Ralph-103 was discharged from the Spartan-II program, but I wouldn't call that retirement.
night tulip
Messy retirement let’s say? Lol
As in
Dumped from the spartan program then joined the marines
limpid meadow
You could put it that way, I suppose
What was the original question about, exactly?
night tulip
Just wanted to know the name of the spartan who retired like Maria
limpid meadow
Was it in relation to anything, or just curious?
I ask only so I can give the best answer possible
night tulip
I was trying to explain to someone that Maria wasn’t the only spartan who retired
Just couldn’t remember his name
severe elbow
Randall is also along those lines.
limpid meadow
Randall would be your best bet, then.
Ralph if you want to stretch the definition of retirement (in my opinion, at least).
last anchor
Ye
civic siren
I've been thinking about the importance of the player in Halo recently, and I realized all our favorite characters have the same underlying theme to them
My favorite moments are the ones where we enter a battle the UNSC is losing and then turning the tide
blazing eagle
Yes
civic siren
Exodus in Halo: Reach is a great example, right after you fall from orbit you enter unknowingly enter New Alexandria and fight through the enemy until you're discovered by UNSC military police, Bullfrog ODSTS, and Marines and they cheer you on and revere you
You get into contact with the ground command officer. Halo ODST had this whole theme, every time we entered a new ODST, we were considered highly essential to the battle by the AI, dialogue and enemies
It gives a sense of belonging, and I hope that theme is reinforced in Halo: Infinite
civic siren
I hope we get to see more of that, even on High Charity in Halo 2, after killing a few brutes, the elite is like "Ohh, we gunna win now
I didnt see any of that in Halo 4 or 5, you're just kinda there regardless. Like you are the main mission, and that takes away from the underlying mission
In Halo: ODST, when you play Micky, you run into an entire assault and they give you access to their scorpion hahaha
They're like okay mofo, we gunna lose anyway so lets see what you got! Glad you showed up
Thats what I enjoy seeing hahaha
versed helm
I mean in Halo 4 it had a different direction and was getting more personal which made sense
civic siren
Even with Rookie, you pop up out of no where and Dare then decides its time to push further into the hive
severe elbow
I mean, Halo 4 has the Master Chief turn the tide of the attack on the Infinity, he turns the tide of the battle he emerges from after speaking with the Librarian, and he is responsible for Ivanoff Station having close to a chance.
versed helm
but then halo 5 was like "Ok cool so we're doing other stuff"
civic siren
Ohh you're right! He does turn the tide of that battle
severe elbow
Even Halo 5 had Fireteam Osiris basically singlehandedly rescuing Meridian Station from the Prometheans.
carmine sleet
In Halo 5, you turn the tide when you have to go exfill Arbiter on the mission "Swords of Sanghelios" too
civic siren
Yeah okay okay, thats totally true. I forgot about those. Whats missing though? I feel like it didnt have the same level of belonging
versed helm
Ehh tbh the world after halo 3 makes no sense
Humanity lost literally 9/10ths of its population
lord knows how many worlds
and are a super power????
severe elbow
Because the Covenant completely fell apart. They didn't win the war, they just survived it better, and had more to show for it.
versed helm
Yea
civic siren
Those battles seem too predetermined, like it wasn't random and happy accident but had to happen to progress the story
versed helm
idk
carmine sleet
Every battle in Halo had to happen to progress the story though
versed helm
Oh
civic siren
Like if Rookie didn't wake up in his pod and died from impact, the story would've gone on.
carmine sleet
Not really
limpid meadow
It wouldn't have, though
versed helm
listen
severe elbow
He was key to making sure Dare got to Vergil. The Covenant were close to breaking into the data center and getting him.
civic siren
Yeah I think @limpid meadow said is it
It wouldve played out differntly
But it wasnt essential to progress the story along
Like what if Chief wasnt on Ivanoff Station
They would've been decimated
severe elbow
Ivanoff Station is supposed to be a loss, though.
limpid meadow
If Chief wasn't at Installation 04, the Covenant would have won
civic siren
Right! Okay, but he was and it was a happy accident and gave you a sense of belonging. Like it was meant to be without it being the main story
humble yacht
or the Flood
severe elbow
Hell, a lot of the first half of Halo 3 is pretty pointless if you look at it that way simply because they failed to stop Truth from activating the Portal.
versed helm
True
humble yacht
Halo 4's whole premise is that Chief just happens to come upon Requiem
limpid meadow
Cortana literally guided the Autumn to Installation 04
limpid meadow
Granted, she didn't know what was there, but she picked that location
civic siren
Like okay, in Halo 1 you're onboard the Pillar of Autumn
And Keyes discovers the Pillar of Autumn and the story becomes escaping the Ring
But in Halo 4, you get sucked into a planet haha
Its not like Cortana rerouted the ship to the nearest planet and something interfered with that
You just mofo show up
severe elbow
There's also significant evidence that Mendicant Bias sent the Dawn to Requiem.
humble yacht
whut
humble yacht
what evidence?
carmine sleet
Or at least on a course that lead to the Dawn to Requiem
civic siren
I hear you about that theory
versed helm
It makes sense
civic siren
I think that shouldve been revealed then, because as far as we know, you just mofo show up
severe elbow
There's a line in Mythos that essentially says the Dawn was sent to Requiem, and jives with a lot of fans' theories that Mendicant Bias specifically sent it there.
limpid meadow
Why is that an issue, though?
humble yacht
Unless you take into account H3's legendary terminal where MB speaks to Chief planning to die
Unless MB could account for all the possible variables that could have prevented the Dawn from arriving at Requiem while keeping Installation 04b together. Which to me is just ridiculous even for MB
limpid meadow
CE, as presented, implies you just stumbled upon Installation 04
civic siren
I don't like that because the whole player sense –for me – is that you're essential because you make it work given your circumstance, not that you're on a predetermined mission
severe elbow
That's the crux of the theory that existed before Mythos came out.
Mythos just reinforced it to make it incredibly likely.
versed helm
yea but in the Fall of Reach Cortana mentions the ring and how she calculated the "Emergency FTL jump" to go there specifically
civic siren
In CE, you stumble across 04 because Keyes had a hunch
limpid meadow
Not at all
There was no hunch
As presented in the game, the POA made a random jump and stumbled upon the ring
severe elbow
All that's said in the game was that they made a blind jump.
civic siren
I dont know enough about that, how did they come across it?
A blind jump?
Hahahahahaha
limpid meadow
In the lore, Cortana chose a set of coordinates, but didn't tell anyone she had
severe elbow
From data recovered from the artifact on Reach and from a previous battle on Sigma Octanus IV.