#Attack Speed

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

maiden hawk
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My idea is to have basically an addition of time every time you attack. In my opinion the point of the turn timer is so that a player just can’t sit there and not do anything for excessive periods of time. But why if we are actively attacking is there a limit of how long we can do that? If we have the troops we should be able to keep attacking.
I play on mobile and on my computer so I deal with the speed limiting factor all the time. Mobile players are extremely limited in how effective they can be because they simply can’t attack fast enough. Even when I play on the computer people with faster computers and better equipment move faster and have an advantage. This doesn’t add anything to the game. I play risk for the strategy aspect not to get beat because people have better equipment than me.
If every time you “conquered” a territory you got say 1-1.5 seconds back on the turn timer then you would be able to continuously attack until you were either done attacking or out of troops. This would take out almost all of the mechanical advantage of whatever the device you were playing on. Obviously there would be ways SMG could tweak this to make this work as best as possible. You could have it so if there are more than 30 seconds left in the turn you don’t get any time back…etc.
We have also seen this be done inside the game already with having a forced trade in after you kill somebody you get extra time. So we that it would be possible to put something similar in the game.
Idk, maybe this has been suggested or tried before and it didn’t work, but let me know what y’all think

short zephyr
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I have seen something similar posted to the #risk_ideas channel, a little bit ago. I don't see any reason why you can't throw it in there again. You need to use #nr_bot_commands channel with the /suggest or +suggest command, to submit it.

I, personally, am not totally against this concept. It is an interesting idea. I may, though, need some more specifics on how this balances gameplay between different platforms, without just making turns longer for PC users.

Would this be a mobile only feature, perhaps? Would you also suggest adding even shorter turn timers to the game, to use with this feature? Any other way it can be fine tuned aside from capping accumulated time for attacks, as you mentioned?

maiden hawk
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Thanks for the tip. I’ll try to throw it in later. I highly doubt SMG could find a way to make a mobile only feature like this so it would have to be across all platforms but who knows. I mean even PC players with crazy speed still run out of time on large maps sometimes. I mean yes turns could be longer but as long as that difference in time is just someone attacking I personally don’t see that as an issue. I don’t like making turn timers 90s or 2 minutes because people sit there for 80s in draft before attacking. If they put this in place I could definitely see 30-45s turn timers as a realistic option. What I see is the most realistic option is that you never earn more time while attacking, so as long as you have “conquered” a territory in the last say 2sec then the turn timer is frozen. If not it continues on. That way you can have a 60s turn time plus however long you need to attack. Does that answer your questions?

pliant cedar
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I like the suggestion. Seems like it would balance the game play among different devices.
Certainly fast players may not want to give up some of their advantage they currently get.
So I would say make this an option, just like you can choose timer settings right now.
My guess is eventually everyone would gravitate to these settings for best all around game play.

maiden hawk
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Well that’s sort of the point right? Certain players have an advantage that wasn’t designed to be there. The players with the advantage will never want to give it up but in the interest of doing what’s best for the game sometimes it has to happen. Making it a potential option could definitely ease the transition though

steady wigeon
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Maybe even 15

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60s is just boring

gilded skiff
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I would LOVE a 30 second timer, since many players will spend half their turn doing nothing, wasting a lot of my time while I wait for my turn. I get some people think on their turn, but like in chess, I often do more planning during my opponents turn than my own.

steady wigeon
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Thats what you should do, yes

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30s would in faster paced games and more mistakes made (also from Top GMs)

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I think I might do a challenge that I can only use 30s per turn

gilded skiff
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I think that more options are better than less. I would love to see a 30 second timer at least tested

steady wigeon
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I can do that : ) I can host some test games were everybody only goes to half their turntimer

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Actually a cool idea for a YouTube video

maiden hawk
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Shoot send me an invite to that game. I’d love to see it tested with speed blitz and 70% as well

radiant viper
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30s wouldn't be available without dynamic timers or a fixed speed across all platforms, otherwise it'd just be abused Vs non-premium players to climb rankings with ease

steady wigeon
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Maybe then allow it for casual?

maiden hawk
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Is that with the assumption or maybe you have this data, that non-premium players are mostly mobile, or is it just because the games would be faster so premium players could just play more games? Also has there been any testing on adding a dynamic timer or fixed speed?

radiant viper
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No it's on the basis that you're more likely to have more stats if you have premium (invested in RISK) vs not

steady wigeon
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@radiant viper Again, why not only in casual? Like 8m?

radiant viper
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Presumably as it still creates a similar issue (not an enjoyable experience for others)

Might be something that'd be feasible for private but doubtful for it to be for public

steady wigeon
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I meant private, sorry I fucked that up 🤣

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But custom turn timers for private matches would be so awesome!

kindred parcel
# maiden hawk Well that’s sort of the point right? Certain players have an advantage that wasn...

Joined this discord just for this discussion. I'm a mobile player and sometimes lose only due to the time issue where other platforms can attack at 2 to 4 times faster. Granted, it's rare, but it does happen. I prefer 60 second turns for the reasons listed, too many players waste the time. I really don't want to have to play 90 second matches just to avoid this clear imbalance. It literally ruins games at times.

steady wigeon
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I think the only thing you can do then is play small maps.

unique mauve
# gilded skiff I would LOVE a 30 second timer, since many players will spend half their turn do...

I'm afraid that sometimes, I'm one of those people. It usually takes my system about 6 seconds just to finish the display on my screen of how many troops I was awarded before I can place them.
The beginning of a 6 player classic risk map is the longest, because sometimes the RNG treats you like garbage and you have to figure out where to go so as to not make any instant enemies.
I try to be quick, but I'd rather not put a stack of armies in the continent you're trying to get.

gilded skiff
unique mauve
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They are turned off. Some folks say I should just smash enter over and over. But that doesn't work because I have to click on the check mark, and my stupid mouse probably needs to be replaced, because sometimes, I really have to mash the clicker.

steady wigeon
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Skill issue

shy seal
unkempt sonnet
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Another thing to help mobile could be to not bring up the type of dice every single attack. Instead make it so there is another button that you can press to change it when you need to

shy seal
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i get the idea but you would still need to use the troop scroller. though i dont use mobile i assume its on the same page as the type of attack

unkempt sonnet
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They are in sequence so by getting rid of the dice type you should increase the speed by about 50%

unique mauve
# shy seal double enter

"Double Enter" - which I presume means to hit Enter twice, very quickly. The thing is, nothing happens after the first attack. I'm left having to move my cursor to the check mark and left click on the check mark before I can begin the next attack. Hitting enter does nothing.

shy seal
unique mauve
jolly mica
maiden hawk
wind knot
steady wigeon
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You can still attack more then 100x a minute

wind knot
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Wish mobile was just a little faster, to balance with PC, to give everyone genuine time pressure, without imbalance between devices

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An element of banked time would help too, with things like players who spend the whole turn timer on every territory choice in manual or players who spend the whole turn timer every time to take one card.

There needs to be a small incentive not to waste time in turns where it doesn’t matter.

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There’s the ocassional turn where you really want time to think, and need the full 60s, but stalling the full timer every turn is just infuriating for the opponents

pliant cedar
unique mauve
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Hah! Maybe you can. I can get maybe 15-17 territories in a minute, if I don't have to split the armies. It's a bit annoying. Not the end of the world, but I think I'd win a few more games by not annoying other players by being so slow, lol.

unique mauve
pliant cedar
steady wigeon
unique mauve
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My pc is pretty darn good. Not the best available, but for a game like risk, certainly plenty of power. Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060, 1 Terabyte SSD, 32 gigs ram, Win 10, wired razer mouse.
I think I may replace the keyboard with a different one and see if I get a different outcome. The lettering on some of the keys has faded anyway.

unkempt sonnet
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You have to delay the second enter press in my experience. Double tapping is too fast but you can tap → wait 1 second → tap again

wind knot
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Optimally I think you can get closer to half a second wait there

unique mauve
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I even plugged in the fairly obnoxious razer keyboard ( I cannot fathom why it has lights, nor why they change color) and it doesn't work as you folks describe, either. Not like a double click, not with a 1 second delay, nor a 1/2 second, nor a two second or three second delay.

There is something rotten if some folks are able to do this and some are not.

unkempt sonnet
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Reinstall? Or maybe verify steam files

steady wigeon
versed token
unique mauve
# unkempt sonnet Reinstall? Or maybe verify steam files

Steam files? I don't play through Steam. I have no idea why I would even look at a site like Steam. I'm really not too sure what Steam is. I was tempted when I learned I could change my name through Steam, but because people might start recognizing any name that doesn't have General in it, figured I'd just leave it as it is.
Is there some compelling reason to use Steam? Until CoH dropped off the planet (now reappeared through rogue servers), I'd never even heard of Steam.

mental kiln
unique mauve
tame basin
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you can adjust the screen ui in game, or just change the resolution/play in a windowed mode to reduce the size

maiden hawk
tame basin
sullen remnant
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So what are the controls/keys people are using to speed through attacks, having to slowly my drag my cursor up each time is exhausting 😂

steady wigeon
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Enter and left click

carmine ingot
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Can I chime in with a suggestion I just posted in general. Instead of adding time I suggest you have X time to start taking action and once started you have Y time between actions. (60/5) for example. Once the 5 ends you get Z time to Fortify (10?)

maiden hawk
# carmine ingot Can I chime in with a suggestion I just posted in general. Instead of adding tim...

So 60 seconds to start doing anything? And 5 seconds for all of your actions? That ratio seems way off. And what do you mean by action? Regardless that doesn't really solve the problem though. As long as there is a set amount of time to be able to attack, players with better equipment will have an advantage. With 30 seconds of just pure attacking (with even amounts of troops), some players can attack 75 territories and others can only get 30-40. As long as there is a set amount of time, that gap will always exist

carmine ingot
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@maiden hawk my ultimate idea is break the 3 phases into their own timer. X time to think & deploy, Y to start attacking, then Z to keep attacking, then W to fortify. So technically the attack phase can last as long as people keep attacking. The actual times of X, Y, Z, W need to be played with. But the idea would be give all players equal time to deploy and fortify and not limit how many attacks someone can get off in one go.

carmine ingot
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5 seconds is just to make a next attack. Then you get another 5, ect..

tame basin
carmine ingot
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Anti stalling to some degree. Open to just the “bot out” timer

tame basin
# carmine ingot Anti stalling to some degree. Open to just the “bot out” timer

Sure, but I don't do all my thinking at one time, Especially with longer paths, I might complete one section and then reassess based on the outcomes and determine my route mid-turn.

I'd prefer 20-30 second of time plus 3 per attack.
Small enough that stalling wouldn't be an issue, but still solves the timer issue

I don't see how giving a large amount of time up front followed by exclusively short spurts is anti-stall

steady wigeon
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Why does everyone want to redo the timer? Is stalling such a big problem for all of you? Cause I never saw anyome purposely stall out their timer...

tame basin
# steady wigeon Why does everyone want to redo the timer? Is stalling such a big problem for all...

The two main issues I have with the timer are the advantage pc players have over mobile, and players stalling/afking/etc.

Right now, the smallest timer setting is 1 minute, which is more than enough time for busy turns on pc and most busy turns on mobile.
It's also 50 more seconds than necessary for most player's typical turn.

In the interest of faster games, it would be nice to have a shorter turn timer, however that would be unfair to mobile players because of unfortunate game design. Shortening the turn timer but adding time when players are taking action would allow for quicker strategic games.

(Btw by "adding time" I'm meaning freezing the timer for up to 5 seconds each time an attack is made. If another attack occurs right afterwards, that cooldown resets to 5, after the cooldown is over the timer would resume, so you don't gain time by doing many attacks successively, you just don't lose any time.)

Most games I play are 6 player FFA, and it's very common to see 5 players playing 5 second turns and then theres one player who spends 50 seconds in draft, maybe temperarily bots out or doesn't attack, but then returns in time for their next turn, etc. It's also common to see players who have been suicided decide to stall their turn. The time taken here adds up, and can easily take up half the game time.

tl;dr: people do stall. I'm impatient. A fair solution exists.

wind knot
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The game becomes a lot more tedious, especially in 6 player, when all the opponents semi-stall their timer, even at 60s, and make games last twice as long.

In 1 game the extra time isn’t an issue, but doubling the time taken for every game, is a pain if you’re trying to rank up, and want to play a lot of games

carmine ingot
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My main motivation for the suggestion is 100% to even the PC vs mobile playing field. Not only do I see an issue with the attack speed (biggest issue) but also the splitting and fortifying. PC can use the mouse wheel where mobile can’t. My last purposed solution which I don’t like would be to only allow mouse left click. Make PC basically play like mobile and move the mouse everywhere.

versed token
# wind knot The game becomes a lot more tedious, especially in 6 player, when all the oppone...

Maybe it’s time to reconsider my suggestion for a new 24+4 count down during non-action timer. Can also be thought of as a timer that freezes when you are making moves. (Heavily voted against for some reason)

Short turns would be 30 seconds or shorter and stall turns could be a maximum of approximately 30 seconds so that’s great for speeding up games.

(I guess a really dedicated stalling player could stretch it a bit if they placed one troop at a time with 3-4 second delays between placement and then attacked by slow roll maximizing the 4 second timer between each roll… but that would be a lot of effort and would only generate a few more seconds of overall turn length, so it’s doubtful that it would happen much.)

An active turn would last as long as the player was making attacks jumping to the 4 second fortify allotment as soon as 3-4 seconds pass without an action or the player clicks fortify.

#risk_ideas message

I think I wrote at length of the implications of this kind of timer somewhere on the riskord but can’t find it now.

I think I might have proposed that the first turn be 60 seconds to allow players a chance to “settle into the game” and notice it’s their turn or think about where to put their cap whatever they need the time for. After that they should do their thinking on their opponents turn. I’d even be open to 60 seconds for first player, 55 for 2nd etc. …down to 30 seconds for the sixth player in the first round.

versed token
carmine ingot
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@versed token I understand the point about pausing the clock but I don’t think that solves the problem. PC being able to click then hit enter is Way faster that touch screen. So even pausing would still give advantage to PC. Having individual clocks for each action keeps them independent. You point about slow rolling manual and stalling is very valid. For that corner case I would suggest the following. If you trigger a manual roll (not just select the option but actually roll) your turn timer converts to a non-restartable timer like it is today.

wind knot
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Is there any way the buttons on mobile could be changed, to make attacking on mobile easier and faster?

carmine ingot
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I don’t personally see a way to speed up mobile only slow PC down. Only thing I can think it to auto perform certain actions which would decrease the level of gameplay because it would “hint” in doing so…

versed token
radiant viper
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There's also two 'quick' solutions (though it'd be downvoted by steam-preferential players)

  1. ensure camera animations on ranked games (or all games) - this was the breaking change which introduced the speed difference in the first place
    2, disable hotkeys so they need to be clicked like on mobile
fair finch
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I must say the attack speed on PC already feels very slow to me. Not so much from a level playing field pov, but enjoyment while playing instead. Sure you can get it right with some practice. But it can actually require quite some effort to register a click to a giant territory (like it’s way harder to do correct than clicking the way smaller closing button of a window).

Believe that last time PC attack speed was slowed down people started complaining mobile was even faster (not for your average player but still), e.g. #🔒en-general message (Although the bugged still seemed to exist on mobile afterwards, so maybe that was slowed down further? Only saw a message that they were capped at the same max speed.)

maiden hawk
fair finch
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There might also be a conformation bias? It seems most PC players are also quite slow. So one might assume every quick player is a PC player, even if it’s just a quick mobile player.

fair finch
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Took a look at the speed cap message #help_bug_report message It seems mobile speed was indeed slowed down (after people started complaining mobile was faster), since the bug still existed. Don’t know if the message of Luci that they are capped at the same max speed is still true? If so, I don’t know why there would be a significant speed difference. Find it hard to judge, but mobile seems to have about the same delay for confirming attacks to me.

wind knot
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I mostly play mobile, but I firmly prefer making mobile faster over making pc slower

versed token
# wind knot I mostly play mobile, but I firmly prefer making mobile faster over making pc sl...

Agree, but if a freeze timer is added… then mobile won’t have to click faster to have a more even game, since the PC speed advantage would only gain them the ability to finish their turns faster or use more of their turn time to think. They would no longer have the ability to complete more actions per turn than mobile players who were clicking at near max mobile speed. Assuming the “time to click before timer restarts” was set at a number based on mobile click speeds. I think something like 4 seconds or maybe even less would make the game a strategy game and not a click speed game.

Also just to ride my particular hobby horse as well… this would also allow for less exclusion of players with physical limitations from the top ranks. Why should visual or physical disability exclude players from competing in RISK at the highest level. It is a strategy game after all.

wind knot
maiden hawk
vagrant meteor
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You mobile players are at such a disadvantage it's embarrassing honestly. I started playing this game on mobile until I went on PC and I noticed how much I've improved. If I was playing Mobile, I would not be winning games as much as I am now. Takes twice as long to make moves as it does on PC. One of the biggest reasons I put 60 second turn timers is because I know a lot of people play on their phones/tablets.

unique mauve
radiant viper
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I played RISK for ~2 years before Steam version existed - I've occasionally played on Steam but only really testing SP - I don't like the edge it gives over mobile/tablet players so I stick to mobile too.

That said, it is very funny to see when someone is intentionally zooming around the board on a big map I host, you tend to find at least 3 players will assume they're the biggest threat & be a great neighbour while focusing them 😄

maiden hawk