The Future of Battle Nations

[grave yacht]

I want to preface this by saying that I think the developers are doing a great job. After Battle Nations shut down 10 years ago I never imagined I'd be able to play the game again. I'm back and loving it and want to see the game survive, so I did some back-of-the-envelope math on the game's finances, and I think there are structural problems that need to be addressed if we want to keep the game alive.

finances

Patreon (~3,100 patrons) is bringing in roughly $28-46k/month net after fees, based on tier distribution estimated from counts of discord roles i just took. Nanopod revenue is probably a small fraction on top of that. Linkedin shows about 9 employees, which at indie rates plus servers, licensing to king, and overhead puts costs around $28-45k/month. Obviously these are rough estimates but we're looking at roughly breakeven, or maybe slightly above or below.

what this means for the game

i don't think battle nations needs to become a huge hit mobile game. the point of this project is to let us play battle nations again, which is amazing. but even that modest goal requires the game to at least break even financially, unless the developers are willing to eat the cost. Right now it's sustained almost entirely by ~3,000 vets, which is a group that can only shrink over time. If you look at the Steam data for concurrent active users this is declining. And if the player base slowly declines and there's no way to replace those players and patrons, eventually Battle Nations will die again.

While I understand that we want to restore the original Battle Nations, aspects of the game need to adapt to the world of 2026. The original monetization was designed for a much larger playerbase that Z2Live had through its other games during the iOS app store boom. That world doesn't exist anymore. And on top of that the licensing fee with King is an additional cost that Z2Live never had.

So how do we keep Battle Nations alive in 2026? Genuinely want to know.

[solar plank]

One popular suggestion to increase revenue is skins (unit/building) instead of promotional units since many of them need a rework to either buff them or nerf them to the ground cough mech/legendary cough

Plenty of good ways to give us a little more creativity or just army personality with skins

Other than that is the need for a rework of the early game. Right now it reeks of 2013 mobile game with long timers and a big incentive to spend money to get through the slop while new players are more likely to spend money when they have spent some more time playing a game and gotten hooked by the story an gameplay.

For late game changes that aren’t cosmetic we’re in need of more things to do. While Boss Strikes are fun every once and then it’s not something that’ll keep people interested in the game in the long run. These events could also be the answer to the question on how Madrona will deal with the need to raid NPC bases like Greenborough and New Haven for resources. Events like this could introduce upgrades to storage space given by the Supply Drop or straight up resource rewards that allow people to stock up with what they plan to use.

[young slate]

I agree with everything you said.

[ionic latch]

I dont think this game needs to become huge or anything but it does need to get quite a bit bigger than the current playerbase in order to achieve its goals and keep a healthy playerbase size

Ideally a 100k+ player size would be ideal at least for enough revenue to keep a healthy size dev team im addition to community activity

[fervent wyvern]

the discord having lots of downtime is... not the best look for the future of a live service game

[grave yacht]

I mean, I think implementing the game exactly as it was is not going to work. If it didn’t work when Z2 had the advantage of the iOS boom and no licensing costs, the structural factors haven’t changed for the same features and monetization strategy to work now.

Either madrona can find a way to reach the same player base size as Z2 to sustain the game or it has to rethink key aspects of the game and monetization to be able to sustain itself with a smaller player base.

The old Z2 strategy of finding ways to extract value from the player base is inherently grating to players. One of the reasons I created this thread is to try and ask for ways that both players and Z2 can benefit. One example I thought about is borrowed from the idea of Universes Beyond in MTG, which is where other IPs like Lord of the Rings allow MTG to make card sets based on their universes. I think maybe the idea in battle nations would be to have other universes pay battle nations to create content based on their IP. But not sure if that is possible. But it’s just something to throw out there as an example of a way for madrona to make money that isn’t just from the players that might be enjoyable

[fervent dust]

I have been very verbal so I'll just condense my thoughts without a lot of text;

Madrona is recreating the game 1:1, flaws and all at the moment.
-# Maybe some new ones, along the way!

Currently you have 2 paths. Believe and just sit around for the ride, It'll get better maybe, or be a skeptic and question everything.

To be frank, as you said, the old model isn't sustainable, it relied on "New promo, buy!!!", to milk it's users like cattle. The game doesn't need a few light changes, it needs a whole rearranging, but the problem is, that's yet to be seen. They seem to be intent on making the game up to spec, before making major changes. Rather or not you think that's dumb, or whatever, that's up to you personally. We, or at least me continue to play this game in the hope it one day gets better. So for now, you just kinda... wait along for the ride.

[grave yacht]

I don't think it's "questioning everything" to point out that the old model isn't sustainable. As players of a game that is starting on a rough road to sustainability, I think we should agree that pointing out fundamental issues with the current trajectory of the game is more productive than waiting and hoping.

Ideas in the thread so far:
Skins, outlets for player creativity
Rework of early game, something to do lategame
A system for a fundamental gameplay loop that isn't grinding.
Potential for supplemental monetization strategy other than players
More players