low acceleration

[trim stump]

voron V0.2
dragon toolhead with red lizard hotend
orbiter filament senor
can bus
EBB36 ADXL345
replaced the top part of the Y axis mount
kirgami bed mount
otherwise stock siboor kit

after calibrating input shaper the recommended accelerations were low (5800) and i was told that the Y graph looks weird, would like some help

[past laurel]

your belts are outa-wack

I would restart the belt tension process.

When you ran the belts were they the same length down to the tooth

[neat apex]

You also probably have binding on the x axis. Make sure not to overtighten the screws on the xy joints that hold the bearings

[trim stump]

i ran the test when the toolhaed was in the middle of the buildplate

[trim stump]

they are at the max tension i managed to set them

[past laurel]

What is the tension and how did you measure it

[neat apex]

Reth meant were the belts the exact same length before you put them in the printer? And then did you cut the same amount of excess off both?

[trim stump]

by feel, i dont have any device but they sill feels a bit lose

[neat apex]

You can use the mobile raker app to measure tension

It's under tools

[trim stump]

i cut both sides together

[trim stump]

ill check that out, never herd of that

[neat apex]

There's lots of tools to do this with (they're even mentioned in the Voron 0.2 manual), I've just found this one to be the easiest

[trim stump]

is it a phone app? or how to install that?

[neat apex]

Phone app. It's on the Google play store and should be on the Apple app store

[neat apex]

Were the belts exactly the same length before you put them in the printer?

[trim stump]

yes

[neat apex]

Cool

[trim stump]

i replaced the toolhaed carriage a wile ago, maybe when i put the belts back they wasnt put in the same as the last time because the tension felt lower since

[neat apex]

That's quite possible

[trim stump]

its a bit tricky to check the belts as ill need to take a panle of😅

but cool app, can i get remote control for the printer through that?

[neat apex]

Yep

[trim stump]

cool, ill check it out

anyway ill find the time to check the belts and will update

[jade agate]

Any update for us?

[trim stump]

hey, unfortunately i havent had a second to fix it lately, but im trying to get to it

[jade agate]

No worries, keep us updated 👍

[trim stump]

do you have any tips for inserting the belts in the right tension after they are trimmed?

[jade agate]

Bending helps. And using a screw driver or pliers to grab then

Bend, insert, pull with pliers

[past laurel]

@trim stump not sure if this is the issue you are having, but this might help
https://youtu.be/FPmost3rc64?si=cufSjMx40EM5AQQT

[trim stump]

ive tensioned the belts, but getting an error when trying to run the test

[trim stump]

im not sure what's the problem, it worked before and i havent changed anything in the software, also tried to reinstall the shake & tune but it didnt help

[trim stump]

iv got these graphs using manual measurement but they was vary slow compered to the previous test and very large movements

[past laurel]

Did you update klipper?

[past laurel]

Can you post a picture of the rear and sides of your printer focusing on umbilical please

[trim stump]

i dont remember when but its up to date

[trim stump]

done

do you know why the shake & tune doesn't work?

[past laurel]

Klipper update broke it

Frix is on vacation

[trim stump]

i reran the test

[past laurel]

That helped a bit in Y

I think if you cleaned up the wires on the toolhead you might get it to look better

[trim stump]

looks like it wants me to go slower now😅

[past laurel]

Your y looks closer to what I expect.

Peak 2 between 75-100 is your umbilical setup

[trim stump]

if i understand correctly the B belt ( i think the lower one) is not tight enough?

[past laurel]

you can try tightening B. But, you might be racked, mechanical or belt induced.
I would tighten B first and see how the graph responds

[trim stump]

thats the tightest i could get

[past laurel]

I think it woudl be best to restart teh belt tension

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4v1575szzc

take a look at this video. There are also other videos on belt tension

[trim stump]

ive done that before, ill do it again soon and ill fix an issue i found. where the pully on the frame looks a bit to low

[jade agate]

have u fixed the issue u found? any update for us?

[trim stump]

Nothing yet, Unfortunately it will take some time as I've got the finals coming

[trim stump]

Hey, I tensioned the b belt multiple times but the results doesn't change much and doesn't looks that good, what could be the problem?

[past laurel]

the issue with belts could be

1. belt path - make sure the belt is routed correctly
2. belt alignment - make sure the belts are not riding on flanges
3. belt wear
4. bearings/idlers - these are not running smooth - something coudl be rubbing on them

[trim stump]

I'll check those
Although I've got a problem that I think is related 😅

[trim stump]

im trying to figure out what causes the issue, and everything looks quite normal and moves smoothly except for moving the toolhead left (positive X direction) when everything is off, any ideas what can cause that?

[past laurel]

Does it move in positives direction with the motor power off and you moving by hand?

[trim stump]

all by hand

[trim stump]

i just noticed that the belts where way to tight, ive loosened them and hopefully be able to test tomorrow for improvement

[trim stump]

is it possible that the A and B are reversed here? because what labeled as the B motor on my diagram spose to be a bit over tensioned (ive at the toolhead mount)

[past laurel]

nope they are not reversed.

[trim stump]

so i guess i read the graph wrong?

[past laurel]

I would loosen the B belt by and 1/4 of a turn

[trim stump]

Its maxed, I ment to loosen it from the connection

[trim stump]

I can't understand the graph, if the purple line is lower does it need to be tighten or loosened?

[past laurel]

Lower is tightened. But orange looks too tight

https://youtu.be/1_ZWJWKanO4?si=hQVlXM4mp8GJ6hRk

[trim stump]

ive tighten the b belt between the tests but i dont think it helped...

[trim stump]

thats the besrt i maneged without removing the toolhead, but im gettin a crazy layer shift, what can cuase that?

[trim stump]

at least on high speeds

[past laurel]

Can you run input shaper please.
You belts are well off, want to see what is says

[jade agate]

Those are with sweeping enabled

So useless for us.
Please disable it

[jade agate]

Same for those

After it’s turned off, rerun all tests

[trim stump]

How do I disable that?I can't find it on the decomention

[past laurel]

thank you I did not catch that

[jade agate]

Sorry i dont understand

The two last config lines here #1308097646786777108 message disable it

[trim stump]

I don't have the sweep here

[jade agate]

That is the issue

U have to add it

Which size is your printer?

Ah V0, okay

[trim stump]

l\ike that?

[jade agate]

Yes

[trim stump]

yah its also my first printer (iv built it a while ago) so im learning a lot mainly on the software side

[trim stump]

great

[jade agate]

Now rerun all tests

[trim stump]

im doing that right now

[trim stump]

ran those out of curiosity, i dont know if that helps

[trim stump]

that looks much better dosnt it?

[past laurel]

I do not think this is going in the right direction.

Can you take pictures of the front and side of your printer. I want to see what the umibilical looks like

[jade agate]

Your CAN bus cable will break in in few hours if u keep it like that

[jade agate]

Thats where u want the zip ties

[past laurel]

or you can add more shrink wrap around the exposed wires

[jade agate]

Thats better but not ideal

Ideally u apply zip ties to the cable, not to the individual wires

[past laurel]

replace the the broken plate in the back. you can print one out. This is used to keep the wires in check.

replace the plastic clips with zip ties along the umbilical path

clean up the excess lube on your rails.
What lube are you using?>

[jade agate]

Oh got catch , was too focused on the Cable

[trim stump]

I know, that the best I was able to get but I'll add some electrical tape around that part

[trim stump]

I've just added the lube hoping it would help

[trim stump]

I don't have a big enough printer, does "welding" or glowing will work?

[jade agate]

Can u click on your flag in #rules so we get an idea where u are from?

[trim stump]

ive installed back all the panels and thats the results

the belts looks much better but the input shaper not as good

[trim stump]

ive done some maintenance and it looks better but not perfect, how ca i improve from here?

[past laurel]

hello

your belts are off

belts are showing the following

1. belt alignment/path issues
2. bealt wear
3. bearings/idlers issue

4. belt tension is not the same

[trim stump]

I've checked the belt path and the bearings and they're fine, do you mean wear on the belt teeth or starching?

The tension looks pretty good from the shake shaketune graph, but the A belt have a second peak, that don't understand
I don't fully understand the results except for aiming for the peaks of the A and B belts to match

[trim stump]

iv replaced the xy joints because i noticed a crack in one of them, in the process i made sure that all all the bearings roll smoothly, and tensioned the belts using a belt tension meter iv bought but it still looks awful. any ideas?

[past laurel]

what is the tension of both belts?

Did you turn one a little, then the other a little, going back and forth? Or, did you just tighten one all the way

[trim stump]

I'm using this tension meter and its about 8mm on both belts

[trim stump]

i went back and forth until both of them measured in the spec of 8mm

[past laurel]

Loosen b-belt about an 1/4 of a nub

[trim stump]

still looks bad...

[past laurel]

Tighten b 1/4 and tighten a 1/4

[trim stump]

maybe a bit better?

[past laurel]

Try tightening A 1/4 more and then run input shaper

[trim stump]

looks like the b belt can use a bit more tention?

[past laurel]

Go ahead and try tension b a bit. I am not sure how accurage that tension meter you are using is

[past laurel]

When you did your belts did you make sure they were the same length, and that you had the same number of teeth for the belts on the left side and the right side of the x-carriage

[trim stump]

i wasnt counting teeth but I've done my best to make equal

[rose cloud]

You’ll need to count the teeth and make sure they’re the same

[past laurel]

@trim stump

[trim stump]

Thanks, but is it possible to do that on the v0? Attaching the belts are a real pain😅

[rose cloud]

Yes take the front idlers off, then put them in as last step again

[trim stump]

Great I'll be able to try this over the weekend

[past laurel]

Look into draft shift GitHub

They have a belt helper tool that might help with reusing the v0 belts

I am at rmrrf so support from me may be limited

[jade agate]

its been 7 days, do u have an update for us? how are things going?

[trim stump]

hey, i had a test this week so i couldent reroute the belts the printer, but i noticed a wired thing, ill send a picture

It looks like there's a hight difference on the pulley, iguss it hurts the preformens?

[jade agate]

Not sure. Have a look at the CAD and compare height there

And also the bearing stack.
If its correct

[trim stump]

the stack is 100% correct by the instructions, ive checked

[trim stump]

in the cad there is no height differnce, maybe is the printed parts?

[jade agate]

okay then i wouldnt give it too much attention

[trim stump]

btw if i would it be fine to file the openning of the belt connction to make it easyer to insert them? currently every time ive done that it took me a lot of time fighting them

[trim stump]

i have no idea what has changed, but i decided to check the belts and they were terrible, so after a few adjustments ive go to this
still very low acceleration on y

[jade agate]

the 125 peak at Y is likely toolhead

loose screw

bad linear carriage

stuff like that

[trim stump]

ill check that

[trim stump]

that looks much better

[past laurel]

Y is looking racked

[jade agate]

its been 26 days, how are things going? do u want us to mark this as solved?

[trim stump]

I've ordered new belts that are on the way, i ran the belt competition again a few days later and ot was extremely out of shape again, so much that it was out of tensioner range of movement

[jade agate]

thanks for the update.
do u have an ETA for the new belts so i dont need to bother u again 🙂 ?

[trim stump]

Unfortunately deliveries are delayed due to the situation so I have no idea, at the moment it runs fine but much slower than the maximum

But I'll keep you updated when there's news

[jade agate]

sounds good 🙂

[trim stump]

more than a month apparat, havent changed a thing🤦‍♂️

[jade agate]

@past laurel any idea on how that could happen?
Screws got loose?
Adxl loose?

[past laurel]

It could be belts just stretching over time.

Parts settling in

Try retensioning it

[trim stump]

I've recently tightened every bolt on the gantry, the only rattling is from PTFE lock ring

[trim stump]

I've pretty much ran out of tension room in the B side and I've got new belts coming hopefully soon

[rose cloud]

Are you sure there’s supposed to be a washer under the printed spacer?

[trim stump]

Sorry for the delay, it seems that an extra washer slipped in there accidentally, I'll fix that

[jade agate]

its been 19 days, how are things going? any update for us? 🙂

[trim stump]

iv removed the extra washers and that's the current status, soon ill be able to replace the belts

btw do you have any tips or alternative carriage\ that is easier to attach the belts to?

[jade agate]

Not on a V0, no sorry

[trim stump]

got it, ill update you as the moment ill replace the belts
is there any other reason for the wired spiks in the graph?

[jade agate]

Since Y is pretty clean im not too sure

Might need to wait for @past laurel to charm in

[past laurel]

It looks like you are racked, like you x-axis is not perpendicular to your y-axis

It has been a while can you provide a updated front picture please

[trim stump]

Is there any specific angle you'd like to see?

[jade agate]

Top down view is helpful as well

The ones u posted are great 🙂

[trim stump]

BTW that's how it looks after i removed the extra washers

[rose cloud]

What carriage are you using? It looks like your heater cables and whatnots are pushing the belts back

And did you count the teeth to make sure both belts are even since last time?

[trim stump]

its the dragonburner on the stock carriage, the teeth looked fine but hopefully next week ill be able to replace the belts using the printed tool you showed me

[rose cloud]

Make sure it’s not +- 1 tooth

And see if you can cut the corners of the fan like in GitHub to give more space to route your wires without pushing the belts back

[trim stump]

What can I remove here?

[rose cloud]

Should fit inside the fan, the clearance means the fan touches the belts basically I think

https://github.com/chirpy2605/voron/tree/main/V0/Dragon_Burner#fans-1

[trim stump]

i think i saw the problem, the hotend wires are there and the fan calble was damadged and ive dolderd it and out some electrical tape over it

[rose cloud]

Ah I personally run the fan cables on the inside as well but don’t have any pics :/

[trim stump]

ill try set it that way
do you have the file for the probe mount? i thought about doing that but thought it wouldnt fit

[rose cloud]

It’s in the dragonburner thread if you scroll up a bit

[trim stump]

couldn't find it, but saw that on printable: https://www.printables.com/model/1356847-dragon-burner-pinda-probe

[jade agate]

dont use a PINDA

it has thermal drift

[trim stump]

Good to know, is there an alternative? I saw some Beacon options but i don't think they'll fit the v0

[jade agate]

on a V0 u dont need a probe honestly

[trim stump]

Not perfect but a little better, maybe I should cut the wires again and use a proper heat shrink

[trim stump]

I'm having to mess to much with the bed hight and its getting annoying, it will probably make life a bit easier
Something its changed between prints without changing anything

[jade agate]

thats not normal

check your z endstop, maybe replace it

check that u leveled your bed AFTER heat soaking it for >30mins at 110°C

make sure z offset is good - use ellis guide for that

print and install https://github.com/Driftrotor/Kirigami-Bed-Brace

[rose cloud]

That looks way better haha I’m assuming the belts are loose?

[rose cloud]

Make sure your z endstop is solid and not moving

I get a bit of a difference in height when the printer is fully warned up but it’s fairly consistent, never have to adjust it really

[trim stump]

In usually leveling during a first layer print but I'll try that
The endstop mount is a bit broken do ill replace it

Yea😅

[jade agate]

if stuff is broken how should it work properly?....

[trim stump]

I glued the crack but i checked again now and it broke again

[jade agate]

thats not how things work mate 😄 if they are broken u replace them 😄 no wonder u cant get a good first layer
u have a 3d printer that can print replacements

[trim stump]

The embarrassing thing is that I think I already printed that part and just got lazy replacing it😅

[rose cloud]

Oh idk how likely but that might affect things a tiny bit

[jade agate]

its been 9 days, any update for us? 🙂

[trim stump]

hey, just finished the exams (for now) so ill be able replace the belts and fix some other things (ive noticed that the umbilical is getting pressed between the xy profile and the motor mount when homing so ill design a guide, if by any chance you can send the cad of the piece holding the umbilical out of he electronic compartment it can be awesome) and ill update when im done

[jade agate]

thanks for the update, sounds good 🙂

do u have an ETA for us so i dont need to follow up? 🙂

[trim stump]

i hope ill be able to finish that this weekend, thats my plan

[trim stump]

so ive replaced the belts finally, and when trying to calibrate using shaketune that pooped up and the printer crashes, even the firmware restart doesn't help, was there a critical change in the last update that causing this issue?

[trim stump]

BTW I thought giving another tightening a try but that's how the belt looked behind the toolhead so good timing 😂

[jade agate]

Urg

Are those legit GATES belts?

[jade agate]

Latest klipper update breaks shaketune

[trim stump]

Those are the belts that came in the siboor kit

[trim stump]

I guess we'll know the real improvement when it'll be back working 🤦‍♂️

[trim stump]

until shaketune will be fixed, i removed the rear panel today to install a filter but before i actually done anything that popped and i have no idea why and the general group doesn't seems to know, do you guys have an idea?

i managed to narrow it down to the orbiter sensor

[trim stump]

looks better i think

[jade agate]

what do u use for tension?

phone app?

[trim stump]

First by feel and now that shake tune is back that

[jade agate]

thats not great

get yourself https://github.com/Diyshift/3D-Printer/tree/main/GT2 Belt Tension Meter

[trim stump]

I've got one, ill try using it

[trim stump]

thats after using that device

[past laurel]

Are you racked? Does your front idlers both touch the xy joints equally

[trim stump]

Looks fine to me..

[past laurel]

how tight are you

[trim stump]

The belts are about 9mm on the tension meter, like it says on their instructions

[rose cloud]

What do you mean by 9mm? What number does it show on the dial thing?

[trim stump]

Thats the one I've got, its about 9mm on the display

[past laurel]

I have no idea what that means

Can you relate it to hz

FYI: the pf meter is the recommended meter

[jade agate]

Thats not what i linked u above.

[trim stump]

dosnt it do the same thing?

[jade agate]

no

[trim stump]

whts that?

[jade agate]

we have 0 idea what "9mm" means.

we work with hertz

so Reth asked u to change your "9mm" to Hertz

[trim stump]

ok, ill use a tuner

[jade agate]

get the tool i linked.

[trim stump]

it will take at least a month for most of the hardware to arrive...

[jade agate]

no chance to source it locally?

[trim stump]

ill check but i doubt it

[jade agate]

ask in your local channel, im sure someone can help

[trim stump]

ok

im getting bween 72 and 73.1 hz

[jade agate]

use this https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stonekick.tuner&hl=en-US one

toolhead all the way back

to the middle of X

[trim stump]

Of course

ive got 65.5 and 63

[jade agate]

thats way too low

u want 110hz

[trim stump]

Ended up using a guitar clip on tuner as 110 hz is the note A🤷

[jade agate]

Run input shaper now please

[jade agate]

Which adxl is this again?

[trim stump]

its the one on the ebb36

its the 345

[jade agate]

Im wondering if the mount is bad.
Do u have another adxl u could mount on the Front?

[trim stump]

I've got that one but I don't really know how to use it

[jade agate]

That will work.
These days ADXL with USB-C exist
Like the #bigtreetech one for example.
Both work, both do the job.

Wiring is explained and shown in the Klipper documentation

https://www.klipper3d.org/Measuring_Resonances.html

[trim stump]

ive got the wiring done, i dont no how to set it up in the software

[jade agate]

Thats also explained in the link i posted

See how far u get and let us know at which exact step u have trouble

[trim stump]

ok

[trim stump]

Do you think that it will be ok to mount it there with double sided tape?

the direction based in the arrows in the board are in the correct orientation

[jade agate]

Use this https://github.com/chirpy2605/voron/blob/main/V0/Dragon_Burner/STLs/v0.2/ADXL_Mount_Front.stl

[jade agate]

Orientation doesnt matter. Klipper auto detects

[jade agate]

Check holespacing before printing

So the adxl fits.

[trim stump]

is it supposed to be fitted in the front?

[jade agate]

Yes

[trim stump]

ok

[jade agate]

Im pretty sure its part of the CAD

[trim stump]

also it seems like klipper is not coming up after the install

[trim stump]

the log looks fine to me...

[jade agate]

Please tell us what u have done exactly

Step by step

[trim stump]

sudo apt update
sudo apt install python3-numpy python3-matplotlib libatlas-base-dev libopenblas-dev
->~/klippy-env/bin/pip install -v "numpy<1.26"
->(ive got a messeges that iv got an update so ive accpted)
->~/klippy-env/bin/python -c 'import numpy;'
-> copied to printer.cfg:
[mcu rpi]
serial: /tmp/klipper_host_mcu

[adxl345]
cs_pin: rpi:None

[resonance_tester]
accel_chip: adxl345
probe_points:
100, 100, 20 # an example

[jade agate]

And did u flash the rpi as well?

So it gets detected as a mcu

[trim stump]

i obviasly changed the probe pointsa

[trim stump]

isnt it the first three commands?

[jade agate]

Nope

[trim stump]

ive got the fly gemini v3 so the pi is imbaded in the board

[trim stump]

for some reason it dosent recognize "pi" d oi need to switch it with somthing like "gemini v3"?

[jade agate]

Did the klippy log state „permission denied“?

Or why did u run that command?

[trim stump]

i ran that command: sudo usermod -a -G tty pi
and it didnt find pi, i didnt see permission denied anywhere

[jade agate]

I saw that

But my question is:

Did the klippy log state „permission denied“?

Or why did u run that command?

[trim stump]

no

[jade agate]

Then why run the command?

„if“

Its not „u have to“

Careful with wording

[trim stump]

i havnt read properly🤦

so do i need to go throw the adxl config again?

[jade agate]

U need the config which u posted above

[trim stump]

ive done that and its stuck like that

[jade agate]

Give it a few seconds, eventually it will throw an error