And with that, I'm not the audience anyway so I'll just stop.
#video-games
rancid cove
i mean, it does look quite a lot like ff15
and ff15, for better or worse, is pretty clearly an indication of the series's future
wraith cradle
I'm sure they throw the words Final Fantasy and let the fans fill the gaps
eager hamlet
I mean, theyll stick with action-combat, obviously
wraith cradle
I actually enjoyed FFXV as a leisure game
eager hamlet
True turn-based RPGs are a rare breed nowadays, and for good reason
wraith cradle
Like Road-Trip the game
rancid cove
im not sure if ive said it here before, but i love everything about ff15 until chapter 7, hate almost everything from there until the final hour
wraith cradle
Yeah you know my favpurite part of the game?
When the gang takes Iris and go together to the lighthouse
And you do several stops by the wayside
It was so immersive
First you stop to do together a temple and then you stop to see the beach
rancid cove
also something i think doesnt enough crebit: pitioss ruins is an incredibly cool dungeon
wraith cradle
There was also that cool aspect of the pressure of time
eager hamlet
FFXV wasnt a bad game
Just a rushed one
Or rather an incomplete one
FFXVI on the other hand is making me a bit worried
The combat looks good, but its so gory and the story seems kinda eh
wraith cradle
I think they dedicated too many resources to the big city
When you're barely on it
rancid cove
i have full confidence that 16 won't have any major flaws to speak of, i just don't like most of the decisions they've shown in the trailer so far
wraith cradle
I honestly prefer urban to medieval fantasy
eager hamlet
Kinda agreed?
rancid cove
i'd really like if they went back to having speaking characters that aren't human, like every game before 13 had
eager hamlet
Like, I get why they would want to go high fantasy again
But I did like the urban fantasy they had been going for lately
wraith cradle
It's literally the XXI century blended with FF mythos
rancid cove
i think 15 was my favorite setting they've had so far, followed by 7r
wraith cradle
Also one small unimportant nitpick of gaming
Why everytime they make a female middle aged leader she ALWAYS looks like Hillary clinton?
rancid cove
i am extremely on board with having to hang up your cell phone to hurl a sphere of energy at a flying lizard that then explodes into shards of ice
uploading cool monster fight moments to tiktok
wraith cradle
Better use an anticoagulant or it will gone bad, tho
rancid cove
wraith cradle
Cursed
junior crown
Big recommendations for Going Under. Just finished it, was quite a blast.
rancid cove
dire condor
I really, really wish I hadn't slept on the Styx games for so long. They're absolutely incredible stealth games. They're up there with Dishonored for me.
They're much more similar to Thief than anything else. The good Thief games from long ago, not the reboot.
sour cipher
The reboot was a disapointment
I mean it was a decent thief simulator
Not much of a game
dire condor
Yeah, I enjoyed the gameplay of roaming around stealing from various houses, and most of the missions were fun imo. It just sucked as a Thief game. Had none of the soul, and the final couple of levels were a trainwreck
hybrid jetty
oh man i forgot there was a thief reboot
dire condor
If they were trying to mimic Dark Project's final levels being terrible, they succeeded. Cause they do suck, and Thief 2 is a more quality game overall
but eh
Just a shame that Thief didn't get the reboot it deserved. Eidos Montreal made a banger of a modern Deus Ex series, but they couldn't pull the same magic with Thief
Speaking of Deus Ex...god, I hope Mankind Divided gets a sequel someday. It may be unfinished and the launch was pretty bad, but I still adore every bit of that game.
hybrid jetty
i'm holding onto very thin hope that system shock 3 will become a reality
given how the team working on it is now unemployed, I don't think it ever will but
maybe I'll get to see prey 2 happen one day and that can fill that niche
dire condor
Prey....that game also blew me away. I went in expecting something decent, but instead was treated to one of the greatest immersive sims in modern gaming. Everything from the level design, the power progression, the story, the setting.
I loved that feeling of going from being terrified of Mimics to being a Mimic exterminator late into the game, and only the stronger Typhons could threaten me
It felt like I went from being hunted in Alien to being a badass marine in Aliens lol
Some people think that power progression diminished the experience, but it was the opposite for me. It'd be really exhausting if Mimics and Phantoms were lethally dangerous for the entire game
I still have yet to play Mooncrash, but I hear it's an insanely good roguelite experience
rancid cove
prey is one of the like 5 games that came out in 2017 that, in any other year, would've been easily goty
viscid leaf
yeah prey was fun as hell, and it definitely started off with me scared to bits to then "heh i got this" to then "oh god wait what i'm scared again, what is that"
i was going to do another run on the harder difficulty going full into the typhon powers but i didn't end up sticking with it
did it with none of them
forest stirrup
this discussion is kinda making me regret passing on prey each of the billion times it was on sale
forest stirrup
thanks
wraith cradle
I love how in Prey you can ||Kill your mission control and the game gets off-the-rails||
rancid cove
it's extremely one of the greatest tragedies of our time that prey 2017 won't get a sequel
wraith cradle
Prey 2 and not existing, name a more iconic duo.
Although Mooncrash is basically a prequel
nimble fable
Worth noting that No Man's Sky's new big Origins update has finally addressed the lack of variety in animal, plant, and planet generation
It's
amazing to look at
They also improved the UI in several places
Basically, they finally addressed their forever loyal exploration game audience with what they have wanted, since they spent all this time giving updates for everyone else
I am now happy
rancid cove
o nice, might have to dive back in
nimble fable
Even just for photography
It was worth the wait
Who asked for base building? Who asked for faction wars?
All the early buyers wanted was to feel kind of lonely in a vast alien universe full of beauty and yet know also at the same time that an impossible distance away, many, many other people were in the same situation. Most of the other stuff that was added was to address complaints from people fueled by Call of Duty and mobile games. It's nice that it's become a game many different types of people can love, but this should have been literally the first big update of the game.
rancid cove
honestly i've always felt nms was good, it's just that sony promised exceptional in an unreasonable timeframe
nimble fable
Yeah
wraith cradle
Who had the best turnaround ffxiv or NMS, in your opinion?
nimble fable
has to be someone else's opinion then since I haven't played FFXIV
rancid cove
ff14
wraith cradle
rancid cove
nms was at least playable in its initial launch
nimble fable
damn
wraith cradle
Ffxiv came out same year as ffxiii-2 so that game basically escaped the scorn thanks to 1.0
remote bramble
I think NMS is a better turnaround. FFXIV has the unfortunate issue of reviewers just playing the story and then putting out a review.
Which is fine for a RPG, but XIV is a MMO.
rancid cove
i mean are we talking about publicity turnaround or actual improvement of the product
because people were going to murder sean murray at nms's launch, so if we're going by publicity he wins
remote bramble
Yea, publicity-wise probably. XIV is hard to measure because there's a very strong sense of admiration for Yoshida and "saving FFXIV". Even in interviews about the latest expansion, interviewers still ask him about that.
rancid cove
i mean, the english lead of the game has straight up said "god bless the fans who defended 1.0, but as someone who worked on it, they shouldn't have"
viscid leaf
Speaking of exploration and base building, subnautica is wonderful and terrifying and beautiful
remote bramble
Subnautica is pretty good. Hopefully below zero releases in the near future.
viscid leaf
Yeah I’m holding off on that until it’s out of early access
But it looks yet again beautiful and terrifying
remote bramble
They had to rebuild the story from scratch and the game has barely any voice acting right now.
viscid leaf
Oof 😦
I’ve only been keeping track of biomes and creatures ahead of actually playing it
remote bramble
I think XIV has been on a downslope where the game nowadays provides less content or dripfeeds content. Really hard for me to justify paying a monthly sub when there are a lot of other great games that have content.
below zero will probably get its 1.0 before the end of the year or early next year since it's releasing on switch along with subnautica
wraith cradle
FFXIV did suck on launch tho
It was grindy unsatisfying and the gameplay loop had cooldowns
Like an xp cap
eager hamlet
Theyre removing Just Attacks/Perfect Attacks from PSO2 NGS
Why
That was my favourite mechanic
eager hamlet
Well, we dont know for sure if itll still get regular updates
I imagine itll be the FFXI situation
Plus I do like everything else about NGS
I just hope they at least release a class that has PAs as a mechanic
At least you got the perfect guard still
dire condor
I love FFXIV, but I do dislike how controlled of an experience it is. Every job plays the exact same for everyone, the gearing is extremely linear and boring, the Materia system is a huge waste of potential imo. The game fails miserably at being an RPG, but it's still a blast as far as storytelling and raiding goes.
and yes, NMS's latest update is incredible. It's the update I've been waiting for since they started releasing their big updates, and I got more than I wanted.
hybrid jetty
call me when ffxiv is no longer sub based lol
lethal jay
it partially isn't now
dire condor
Eh, the sub fees never bothered me. Especially since the game does a good job respecting the player's time. There's literally zero grinding needed for the MSQ, and subsequent jobs get a big chunk of extra XP just for having another job at a higher level.
And yeah, the free trial was extended hugely recently. I'm honestly shocked how far they stretched it
There's no time limit and you can play jobs all the way up to level 60, which includes the entirety of the Heavensward storyline
Essentially like 60% of the game's content lol
The biggest drawback is that you can't join FCs (guilds)
Which is a pretty big part of the playing experience
IMO FCs are kinda useless until you get to endgame anyway. The leveling process is easy and none of the story dungeons/trials require much teamwork
rancid cove
yeah the base game and first xpac are now 100% free @hybrid jetty
hybrid jetty
yeah i know about that and have been tempted to try it but still
I'd rather just buy the game once and then buy xpacs than pay multiple times for a game I won't be playing 24/7
eager hamlet
Same
dire condor
I love how I show such selective mercy in stealth games. I'll kill armed guards, but civilian workers and such will be left alone lol
even though the workers are just as eager to see me caught and killed as the guards
cunning schooner
Need 4 more people for Among Us with voice DM me
remote bramble
xiv's sub fee bothers me a lot. Quite a bit of stuff ends up being time gated by weekly lockouts. Patches are more content anemic than last expansion and content is still drip-fed 1-2 months after the patch drops.
Then the producer tells you to unsubscribe if you have nothing to do, but you lose your house if you have one if you unsubscribe for too long.
rancid cove
so, there's been a bit of a global pandemic the past few months, not sure if you've noticed, that has tanked production more or less across the board everywhere in the world
remote bramble
It's been that way even before the pandemic.
5.1 and 5.2 were fairly lackluster and had less content than 4.1 and 4.2.
But thank you, I did notice the pandemic, yes
rancid cove
i mean, if you're not in it for the story, then yeah i can see the sub being a deterrent
remote bramble
It's a mmo, there's no story once you're done with the story, which for a patch is a few hours at best. It's really hard to build a community when people sub for the story and then vanish for 6 months
rancid cove
ah, there's the issue, community's never been a priority for me
remote bramble
Folks I raid with are all unsubbed and playing other games. And they're not sure they want to sub again for the next raid. Raid burnout I guess.
Play one raid and you've played them all sort of deal
few of them tried out hades, they all really like the game.
dire condor
Eh that's pretty much how I enjoy FFXIV: Resub for a month, do more story, whatever trials and raids are available, maybe level some other jobs or farm glamours, then wait a while before I resub again. You are right in that there's practically nothing worthwhile to do at endgame, which is certainly a flaw of the game, but I never feel like my $15 is wasted for the content I do play 3-4 times a year.
remote bramble
Yea, the amount of content you get for the $15 on patch is really good. I'm just burned out on raids nowadays and I have a hard feeling of sunk cost when it comes to my housing.
How do you feel about the story?
dire condor
I don't bother with housing or the community much, so I can't relate to that plight. I don't do savage content cause I don't have a static and I'm not trying them with PF lol
remote bramble
I've considered transferring my main over to Japan. Raiding over there is much more enjoyable and I have a decent enough grasp on the language
dire condor
I've loved every bit of the story since 2.0. Even the slightly lower quality Stormblood was a pure joy for me, just because I love the game world and its lore so much
remote bramble
There's so much lore
dire condor
Stormblood's biggest failing was that it didn't really give the sense that you're fighting in this huge war. Funnily enough, HW did that aspect a lot better, and that was dragons instead of a human military
But the rest of SB was amazing
remote bramble
JRPGs always have that problem
Everyone we're fighting a WAR
There's 5 NPCs on one side, and maybe 2 tanks and 4 NPCs on the other
dire condor
Yeah, they tend to have that issue a lot. Like at least show us a low res backdrop of a huge battle going on, rather than only implying it via text, then having us kill...what, 50 Garlean units in the final dungeon?
rancid cove
i cannot stress enough how much i hate that ||zenos|| is ||still alive||, let alone ||being set up as the big bad of the entire game||
like he's maybe the least compelling villain i've ever seen
remote bramble
I feel FFXIV works best when it tells character stories, not world or force of nature stories.
dire condor
Idk, I really like him as a villain. I thought your 1v1 matches against him were amazing and I really love his English VA
rancid cove
yes but his motivation sucks and it's literally his only personality trait
nova ingot
@rain gazelle youre wrong the best champion is obviously Ezreal cause i main him ok
dire condor
Well, to be fair, the WoL's motivation is just a mirror image of his. You're just the ultimate hero who's gonna beat the bad guy with the power of friendship
dire condor
The story is very cliched when it involves the WoL directly lol
rain gazelle
I stand by my icon on discord
And I main him too so obviously your argument is invalid
remote bramble
I've heard from many that the xiv story is amazing. I like the story but play a lot of jrpgs, it's pretty by the numbers
dire condor
I think it's amazing for an MMO, but I've played better in single player offerings
remote bramble
Same here
nova ingot
@rain gazelle Im only a m4 cho, but i do like a good chompy when i roll him on aram or when i have to toplane. Very fun champ
rancid cove
kermit-selch is the best villain i've ever seen in a game, maybe any media
his motivations are the same as the wol's
dire condor
I've always liked pitiable villains, yeh. He's got more depth than Zenos for sure, but he's not as cool as Zenos to me
rain gazelle
@nova ingot to be fair, I also get the appeal of Ezreal, I just don't like him as much because I prefer champions with less mobility
remote bramble
I can think of multiple jrpg characters that work similarly to Emet. I think some of the VAs in both English and Japanese do a great job, goes a long way to carry the performance
dire condor
Zenos gives me major Vergil from DMC vibes. The voice is not only similar, but he has the exact same lust for power and a challenge. Give Zenos some blue in his design and he's Nelo Angelo lol
nova ingot
@rain gazelle very valid, honestly! Ngl im mostly in it w ezreal for the aesthetics, gameplay came later haha
rancid cove
I can think of multiple jrpg characters that work similarly to Emet.
@remote bramble such as?
dire condor
I mean, him and all of the Ascians are basically Org XIII from KH, just not as cringe
remote bramble
Wouldn't want to spoil a bunch of games
rancid cove
then put 'em under spoiler bars
dire condor
Still to this day, I think ||Ilberd|| is one of the best villains in all of FFXIV
Man, that dude was boss
rancid cove
see, now there's a guy who was just as big of a jerk as zenos, but with better motivation
dire condor
The way he was weaved into the plot was nothing short of masterful
The dude began in base game and ended up starting the main conflict of the second expansion
rancid cove
boy did he!
i maintain that cloud only has that as a bark in ff7r as a refrance to the meme
dire condor
That would be great
It's not quite as good as For Honor's "You're a raider. Legendary."
I could not stop laughing when I fought that boss
How do you screw up a repeating line that badly?
rancid cove
but yeah at this point shadowbringers is my favorite game, period
dire condor
Like of all time or just your favorite game right now?
rancid cove
all time
i mean, not in a vacuum, it doesn't work without the groundwork of the previous xpacs, but my gods
dire condor
I view all of FFXIV as one of my favorites ever. Even the 2.0 content. I've been playing an alt and leveling through ARR again and it's such a comforting, "back at home" kinda feeling. Makes me emotional to do the old MSQ again
rancid cove
yeah im thinking im gonna do NG+ to finish leveling GNB
dire condor
It's funny, I discovered two of my favorite games of all time very close to one another. Monster Hunter World and FFXIV
They'll forever be very high up my ranks of games
rancid cove
man, i lost all enthusiasm for MHW as soon as i saw the Rise trailer tbh
dire condor
Rise....man, yet another reason to buy a Switch lol. I've been putting it off for the longest time, but the game roster is becoming too good to ignore
remote bramble
Played a lot of mhw. You get to a point in the guiding lands where you just stop playing
rancid cove
granted, a lot of that is because they messed up and made fatalis not gore magala, but still
also yeah switch is the next gen console to get tbh
dire condor
Well yeah, it's still an infinite grinding game at its heart. MH doesn't really end, you just play til you get sick of it or until the next MH comes out
remote bramble
My switch collected dust for a long time prior to hades
rancid cove
that's just the nature of consoles
remote bramble
Last major title I bought was animal crossing and I stopped playing after roughly a month
rancid cove
dire condor
I really want Breath of the Wild. I'd probably get lost in that game for hundreds of hours, just exploring and messing around
rancid cove
it's extremely a game built for getting lost in
remote bramble
I didn't like botw all that much
rancid cove
also im gonna burn down nintendo hq if zelda isnt playable in botw2
i will be angry but not arsonic if midna doesnt appear
remote bramble
I've played far too many open world games where the core of the gameplay was walking
dire condor
I really wish more open world games had more travelling in them. I swear when Ubisoft made Far Cry 3, every single open world game became "here's a map with 500 pins on it showing pointless collectibles and points of interest"
Open world game are too dense with worthless addons
remote bramble
But I still have a handful of moments I remember from botw where it's like, wow that's really cool
Which I cannot say for a lot of other games
rancid cove
the problem with open world game traversal is that there's only so many ways to be spiderman without getting into legal trouble
remote bramble
I really liked death stranding ironically enough
dire condor
I'm gonna be really annoyed if Cyberpunk has a collectible, side objective or random event happening every 3 feet. I want some breathing room, some time to kick back and relax while I travel the city
rancid cove
death stranding had the smoothest mechanical progression curve i've ever seen
dire condor
I LOVE Death Stranding. That game is pure meditation for me lol
I also have both of the Truck Sim games with all DLC on Steam
remote bramble
It has smooth progression yea.
rancid cove
like, every time you get a mechanic down to second nature, they give you a new toy
dire condor
I feel like a lot of people who don't like Death Stranding didn't wanna experiment enough. The game gives you so many tools and toys, just fun things to do as you progress deliveries
rancid cove
yeah i definitely found the gameplay more compelling than the writing
which is simultaneously a condemnation of the writing and high praise for the gameplay, tbh
also i sank like 6 consecutive hours into completely covering the main map in zipline paths
dire condor
The speed suit is so awesome. When I found out that not only does it make Sam incredibly fast, but he can superjump over small canyons too? Now I can flee my enemies in style
or be an idiot and mistime a jump and fall into one of the canyons, dropping everything, making BB cry and frantically trying to salvage my own mistake
remote bramble
The writing is strange. I'm familiar with most of Kojima's prior work, and I get the point of many scenes, but I'm floored by how anyone would think doing X or Y that way is a good idea
dire condor
I like the writing, but more because I view it as like..Silent Hill style of writing, where the characters all act weird/creepy and the story is mostly up for interpretation
rancid cove
honestly i hope to see some of the design sensibilities from death stranding show up in horizon one
remote bramble
The characters act creepy for obvious reasons
dire condor
Kinda miffed Horizon runs like absolute crap on my PC. I should have expected it, but the game also ported really badly. Guess I'll wait until I upgrade to enjoy that one
rancid cove
yeah, the horizon port is a tragedy
remote bramble
I skipped on hzd because I heard the port is really bad
dire condor
I hear some people are just brute forcing past the bad FPS by having really powerful setups, which is the only solution lol
rancid cove
i hold out some hope they'll eventually get it in working order, but at least when it launched yeah it was nearly unplayable
dire condor
I mean hey, since Nvidia released their shiny new cards, Horizon probably runs great on them
I just gotta save up...
remote bramble
I got my rtx2070s for tax reasons so I ain't complaining
dire condor
I was gonna get the 2070, but for like $100 more I can get the 3080
rancid cove
same tbh
rancid cove
is there a particular reason to avoid 80s?
dire condor
Much, much higher price for extra performance I don't need. I'm fine with 60 FPS at 1080p still. A 2080/3080 is good if you wanna game in much higher specs
rancid cove
compared even to the 2070/3070?
dire condor
The jump in performance from 70-80 is pretty huge
rancid cove
huh, interesting
dire condor
But it's only worth it if you wanna game in 4k or 144 FPS, or both if you don't mind using DLSS
rancid cove
but not comparable to the jump between 10xx and 20xx, right?
i'm thinking of upgrading my 1060 in the immediate future, so this is useful learning for me
dire condor
From what I understand, the jump from 20XX to 30XX is a much bigger jump than 10XX to 20XX, especially if you're interested in raytracing
The 30XX series is much more optimized for it
Seems to be a 20-30% boost in Raytracing performance, which is huge
Control's RTX on a 2070 gets about 70 FPS, whereas on a 3070 it shoots up to 105 FPS
dire condor
Cyberpunk is gonna have RTX, and it's probably gonna look incredible
and the 30XX cards will run it really nicely
rancid cove
i can't support cdpr tbh
dire condor
How come?
rancid cove
they're run by, charitably, a bunch of Extremely White Dudes
and uncharitably, chuds
they're explicitly anti-union and BOY do they have only the most surface-level idea of what transness is
and with the success of witcher 3, they sure could afford to hire sensitivity consultants
forest stirrup
their transphobic pr tweet still leaves a bad taste in my mouth
rancid cove
but it really doesn't look like they did
forest stirrup
not a big fan of them either
dire condor
Eh, I don't let things like that get in the way of my game enjoyment
rancid cove
i do
tall hornet
Yeah the transphobic tweet and the 8chan AMA.... I'm suspicious of them
remote bramble
I'm not much active on social media these days outside of discord
remote bramble
Better for my health
rancid cove
cdpr owns gog, i know that
dire condor
I keep politics and games firmly separated from each other. Unless the game itself breaks the fourth wall and says it hates trans people or whatever, it's whatever
tall hornet
We only got a limited amount of time and money, I'd rather spend that supporting artists I trust
eager hamlet
And there is a question if I can justify supporting a creator who is, lets say, not great
That being said
I might still get Cyberpunk?
rancid cove
all art is political
eager hamlet
Im more worried that they manage to miss the whole point of Cyberpunk as a genre
remote bramble
It's definitely weird when I went to pax and talked to developers. Seeing real people instead of words on a screen?
dire condor
A ton of artists are and were terrible people, especially in the eyes of some. People are gonna be people. You can't expect somebody who makes great art to be an equally great, morally unquestionable person
eager hamlet
And that their game feels like it promises more than it can deliver
Cant I?
Iunno
Plenty of great artists who are also cool
rancid cove
i can expect them not to be openly transphobic, at the very least
tall hornet
Theres a whole BUNCH of artists, some of them are great
dire condor
I'd be surprised if the entirety of the team feels that way. It's very unlikely
rancid cove
well, their PR department does, and that's a bad start
eager hamlet
True, but I can choose to only support those who I believe are cool
Im sure a lot of Rioters are cool
But Riot as a company sucks
So Im not spending money on their games
rancid cove
i mean, ok, every corporation sucks, but riot's outstanding issues are pretty much entirely localized to the upper third of their pay scale as i understand it
remote bramble
I'm acquaintances or friends with people in many studios. We just don't tend to talk about work. Courtesy I like to think it is
eager hamlet
Sure
rancid cove
i.e., founders and corporate dipships
eager hamlet
And that upper third are the ones who make the most money
rancid cove
true
dire condor
Well, I'm still playing Cyberpunk and I have nothing against trans people. If that makes me a traitor or hypocrite to some, then....that's their problem, I guess. I play games to escape reality, so I do my utmost to ignore these kinds of scandals
eager hamlet
Youre free to play it, as I said, I still might
rancid cove
i mean, i never said not to get the game, just that i can't
eager hamlet
Though Id argue its going to be practically impossible for it to be apolitical
Cyberpunk is inherently a political genre
forest stirrup
yep
rancid cove
and art is, again, always political
remote bramble
I respect your strong convictions
forest stirrup
also yep
rancid cove
maybe it doesn't challenge your politics, but it certainly has them
dire condor
Deus Ex is also very political, but I enjoy that series well enough. Hell, I don't even agree with some of its rhetoric, but I find it fun to explore within its game world
eager hamlet
True, but even in the hierarchy of art, Cyberpunk is pretty high up
Deus Ex is, hm
Its not the typical type of cyberpunk
But I do find it at least gets the core ideas right
rancid cove
yeah, deus ex does at least deal with the commodification and commercialization of bodies
dire condor
Deus Ex is all "where is the line between human and machine" and I'm like "bro if I could be Adam Jensen, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Pro-transhumanism forever, baby"
eager hamlet
Even if it then tries to make a hamfisted analogy that doesnt really work and gets kinda bad if you really think about it
eager hamlet
Why did you make an analogy for the oppression of minority groups while playing into the "theyre all dangerous" stereotype
dire condor
Mankind Divided is more of an allegory for racism. Human Revolution focused more on transhumanism vs being "pure"
remote bramble
I've always preferred traveling and talking to real people over video games trying to convey something. Don't mean they shouldn't, but I don't believe they can accurately portray lots of things
Movies are the same
eager hamlet
Iunno
Despite the fact that theyre still Kojima(TM) games, MGS2 and 3 do kind of get their point across well
dire condor
and i thought MD did an amazing job with its plot. It shows that even the "good" side can contain some real nastiness. Never just follow the crowd, but remain skeptical and use your head
eager hamlet
Even bloody MGRR does
rancid cove
revengeance is the best mgs game, and no not entirely because it has the least objectification of women
wraith cradle
Deus Ex is all "where is the line between human and machine" and I'm like "bro if I could be Adam Jensen, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Pro-transhumanism forever, baby"
@dire condor
And then you get obsolete when better aumengtations come
dire condor
Ultimately I think the transhumanists were still overall cast in a better light than the fascist police force on display in the game. They basically had no redeeming qualities
eager hamlet
Fair
Though
Uh
What about MGS2?
Actually no wait
Just remembered a character
rancid cove
yep.
eager hamlet
Fair
Honestly its funny how MGRR is completely over the top
The story has major mood whiplash rivaled only by the Yakuza games
And I still think it actually has kind of a point?
rancid cove
it does
also the best character in the entire series is wolf, fite me
second place sunny
rancid cove
gods
dire condor
MGRR, as crazy fast paced and insane as it is...STILL goes into political and philosophical conversations over the codec for literally 10-20 minutes at a time. It utterly ruins the pacing of the entire game, but it's great that they remained so faithful to MGS lol
rancid cove
vincent sauce played revengeance for the first time in late summer 2016
that boss fight was. A Moment. for him
eager hamlet
Anyway, Disco Elysium did political commentary pretty good I thought
dire condor
My only real complaint for MGRR was the various cool combos you could unlock were basically worthless. Good luck pulling them off when 6 enemies are flailing trying to slice and shoot you
dire condor
Well yeah, the entire combat system is built around parry counters. Which means those long canned combos you unlock are worthless
rancid cove
parry the platypus
dire condor
Just mashing the light attack button and parrying every attack is enough to beat the game on its hardest difficulty
eager hamlet
Anyway, for now I will just wait and see what Cyberpunk 2077 will end up like
I dont have particularly high hopes
mellow linden
i found disco elysium's ruthless criticism of literally every political idealogy to be hilarious, and is part of why i love it so much
eager hamlet
They had to be convinced to put in non-lethal as an option
mellow linden
the other part is kim kitsuragi
eager hamlet
Nope
forest stirrup
good to know that cdpr's grasp on cyberpunk is tenuous at best
remote bramble
Why is that a problem?
rancid cove
because basically every immersive sim with human enemies for the past 10 years has had a non-lethal option?
eager hamlet
And even now it will "take a lot longer to play" non-lethally
The whole idea of the game is that its an RPG where you can play how you want
They even promised some rather impressive things in that regard
dire condor
Some games try too hard to have too many playstyles, imo. A game like Cyberpunk which has you delving balls deep into enemy territory and getting involved in dangerous criminal syndicates, without killing anyone? What are you, Cyberpunk Merry Poppins?
remote bramble
The Witcher 3 has many instances of Geralt just having to put down someone as the majority of options
eager hamlet
You can play Deus Ex non-lethally
Yknow
The game where you take down a literal group of terrorists multiple times
forest stirrup
i mean, infiltrating said enemy territory stealthily doesn't sound unreasonable to me
rancid cove
the witcher 3 is also a cdpr production
rancid cove
this is not a flattering pattern we're uncovering
dire condor
You can, but I honestly feel like Deus Ex is worse off for it. The only difference between killing and knocking out guards in a Deus Ex game is the achievements and type of XP you get. There's no actual moral implications in-game
rancid cove
that means it's so much less work than doing it right, tho
and cdpr still wasn't gonna
remote bramble
Pattern?
eager hamlet
It does have some minor plot changes associated with it, but sure
But its an RPG
The moral implications and the sense of identification with the character extend beyond the games boundaries
If Im playing an RPG where Im supposed to have a lot of choice
dire condor
I think it'd be a mistake to try and make a perfectly beatable Cyberpunk without hurting anybody. It feels too much like it's appealing to people who don't like violence...so why are they playing Cyberpunk?
eager hamlet
I want to have that choice include how I deal with situations
dire condor
There comes a point where inclusivity becomes too much, imo
dire condor
In many scenarios, yes. But if CDPR craft one or more scenarios where you simply cannot avoid a fight, and it's befitting of the story, then I'm fine with it
rancid cove
i mean, "why are they playing cyberpunk" is a very pertinent question, yes
dire condor
The gameplay should be designed around the story, not the other way around
remote bramble
The characters in the game aren't the player. The player can choose appearances and a backstory, but V still lives in the universe of cyberpunk 2077 and you don't.
eager hamlet
But the character is an extension of you
You also dont live in the DnD world when you make a character there
Like, to be blunt, this is the whole point of RPGs
forest stirrup
i don't see why someone not liking violence too much and them playing a game like cyberpunk have to be mutually exclusive
dire condor
I guarantee if they do what Deus Ex did, and just exclude the forced kills from the "pacifist" achievement, very few people would care. I honestly feel like people just want a pacifist achievement because...they're weird lol
remote bramble
The character isn't a blank slate, just like Geralt isn't a blank slate. He's a character in an established universe and you can deviate his decisions within what the developer deems reasonable
eager hamlet
I want to play non-lethally because thats how I want to play stealth games
Its kinda that simple
dire condor
But Cyberpunk isn't a stealth game, it's an open world RPG where stealth is one playstyle
if you have to fight certain bosses no matter what, I don't see why not. A well designed boss fight makes a game better, imo. Even when you're usually playing stealth
eager hamlet
Also, the typical Cyberpunk protagonist tends to be pacifist-adjacent
Like Case
You can also allow for bosses to be beaten non-lethally
Deus Ex did that too
dire condor
Deus Ex did it HORRIBLY, though.
And it wasn't non-lethal, they still died
They were "stealth kills"
eager hamlet
Uh
No you could literally not kill anyone in Deus Ex
Or Mankind Divided
Human Revolution is the odd one out
wraith cradle
In MD you can't save everyone tho
dire condor
Mankind Divided allows you to no-kill the entire game because it doesn't have forced boss kills. And it has one boss that's barely a boss.
Human Revolution FORCES you to kill the bosses
eager hamlet
Technically you can if you mean the choice
remote bramble
MD is an unfinished game and instead the studio works on a live service avengers game
eager hamlet
It is possible to choose one, complete it, and rush to the other one in time
Yeah and Human Revolution was criticised for that
dire condor
Yes, you can rush both objectives and save everyone. Which I thought was a major cop-out, but eh
wraith cradle
Two people WILL die in the game no matter what
dire condor
They build up this insane moral dilemma and then it's like "nah fam just speedrun it lol"
wraith cradle
For example you either save save ||Your boss or the cultist girl||
eager hamlet
You can do both Albino
wraith cradle
Nope, if you go to the cult to save the woman you wont have the antidote for the poison
dire condor
I only saved the girl and the boss died, but I didn't look up if I could have saved both
Don't really care
wraith cradle
And if you get the antidote she kills herself
wraith cradle
Also either the gangster of the slums, the mafia lord or your doctor friend will die
dire condor
I was just kinda miffed at that last "choice" being a trick. I was so happy that, for once, a game was putting me in the shoes of somebody who had to make a very real, very tough decision. But nope, can't have an immersive sim game without a "save everyone" option for the emotionally sensitive
remote bramble
A choice isn't a choice if it's bereft of consequences
remote bramble
That's what makes a choice interesting, whether it's gameplay or story
eager hamlet
But there is also the possibility of choosing the third option
But yeah, Cyberpunk not having a non-lethal option feels like it doesnt understand what the genre is about
dire condor
I think it's just that a lot of people who play games wanna live out that fantasy of being a hero, being somebody they can't in real life...which is fine, but sometimes it just goes too far. Games are getting more and more unwilling to go to genuinely dark places
There's always a catch, or something extra you can do
to make everything magically fine
eager hamlet
I can think of plenty games where thats not true from just last year
And the option to save everyone has also existed in games from decades ago
Nothing really changed there
dire condor
Maybe I should just find a good reason to finally die. I'm tired of all of this.
broken smelt
that's a tad extreme for having a difference of opinion 
broken smelt
video games seem pretty neat 
forest stirrup
love to have fun with video's game!
wraith cradle
In my times we didn't have videogames, we were too busy doing real hobbies like Knitting or conquering the holy roman empire 
rancid cove
wait isnt that second one a video game
wraith cradle
It was an mmo
The servers closed on 1806 tho
Since that french guy bought the company
remote bramble
rip
after I'm done with hades I will be sad. Maybe I'll go back to playing risk of rain 2.
eager hamlet
I just kinda want to finish Hades now because Im a bit burned out on the gameplay
And I need to finish Kingdom Hearts before ToCS4 drops next month
remote bramble
ToCS4 is gonna be good
eager hamlet
I sure hope so
eager hamlet
I may have partially spoiled myself on a plot point
remote bramble
definitely not buying a ps5 either
eager hamlet
Stupid wiki not putting spoiler warnings where they belong smh
rancid cove
sony honestly beefed it real bad by letting slip that horizon and miles morales are bofa gonna be on ps4
also they've been real hesitant to explicitly confirm that ff16 and demons souls will only be on ps5
forest stirrup
i think they recently confirmed that demon's wouldn't be coming to PC or anything but PS5 though, right?
rancid cove
they confirmed that the trailer saying it would be on pc was "human error"
they very carefully have not confirmed it will be a ps5 permanent exclusive
rancid cove
source?
forest stirrup
rancid cove
When pressed on whether Demon's Souls is actually a lifetime exclusive to the console or a timed exclusive like Death Stranding, Sony declined to elaborate further, reiterating "Demon’s Souls is exclusive to PlayStation 5."
forest stirrup
i'm just saying, considering SCE is involved, i wouldn't count on it
not that it isn't possible
rancid cove
sure, but what's more likely, two huge name games were incorrectly announced for pc, or sony was mad the cat got out of the bag early?
forest stirrup
oh another game had this happen?
rancid cove
ff16
rancid cove
at this point the only two games i've heard about that are 100% definitely only on ps5 are oddworld and dad of boy 2
oh and probably the new ratchet
wraith cradle
There are AT LEAST a dozen games I'm interested with release date 2020
dad of Boy 2?
Oh, Deity of Armed Conflict 2. Right?
rancid cove
ya
remote bramble
I've little interest in PS5 exclusives and my switch has collected enough dust for me to make a bed out of
I don't need TWO whole dust beds
rancid cove
there's about nothing sony could announce now that would make me think i needed a ps5
eager hamlet
Well
rancid cove
it's not like dad of boy is gonna get any better about its treatment of women, after all
eager hamlet
Is HZD confirmed to be on the PS4?
dire condor
You mean 5?
eager hamlet
Havent gotten around to that yet
rancid cove
i dont think u do acualy
remote bramble
I thought dad of boy just had boring gameplay from what I've played at a friend's place
eager hamlet
I mean
I like to play things in order
Nice to see Miles get his own full game though
dire condor
Pretty sure Forbidden West is a PS5-exclusive (for like 2-3 years until they release it on PC ).
remote bramble
and I'm not a dad so I can't relate very well to the story of the game I guess?
eager hamlet
Anyway, for me its similar with the switch
rancid cove
well, put it this way: the map tower mechanic is flavored as helping the cops expand their surveillance grid
eager hamlet
Id only buy the switch for exactly one game
rancid cove
spidey refers to himself as "spider-cop" several times
neither of these things is ever questioned
remote bramble
I used to play a lot of splatoon 2 before forced paid online became a thing. Now I just can't bring myself to pay for Nintendo Online.
dire condor
Oh daaang!
remote bramble
Then I tried mario maker 2 and it's like
why are all the levels so bad
why is the filtering so bad
broken smelt
because people, for the second one nintendo
remote bramble
I thought the worlds feature was amazing, but then you have no way to filter worlds. The game just gives you random ones and you can only make one world set yourself
eager hamlet
Not enough games I even want, and certainly none worth buying a console for
rancid cove
nintendo is terrified of the idea of people communicating on their devices tbh
broken smelt
people communicated through the notes system on the ds/3ds and nintendo got scared people sent people drawings of glorious birds and slippery fish
remote bramble
I remember that
But ye, lots of wasted potential for mario maker. I guess we're getting a pikmin 3 port
I can put my wii u in the trash now
rancid cove
but what about checks notepad monster hunter 3 ultimate!
dire condor
Isn't Paper Mario 64 only on the Wii U's VC?
remote bramble
Probably unironically going to put it back in its box and stow it in a closet, or find a place that recycles electronics
dire condor
Maybe the Wii's?
remote bramble
I can play that on an emulator
broken smelt
mon hun 3U was great, was my entry into the series
dire condor
I've been having trouble making one work with a GameCube controller. 😅
remote bramble
I really hated the underwater sections in 3U
rancid cove
3u was technically also my first contact, but i bounced off real bad right around the second water monster, yeah
broken smelt
yeah, the underwater combat wasn't great especially with only one circle pad
remote bramble
And since the lagiacrus was the flagship monster of that game, that was a bit boring
broken smelt
lagiacrius on land was a fun fight, in water it was a pain in the butt
so I'd always try to bait it up onto land 😂
remote bramble
4U on 3ds was a fun time though
rancid cove
yeah 4u's where the hooks got in me
also gave me a lifelong addiction to gore magala
dire condor
World? Or the new-new one?
rancid cove
i'm ludicrously excited for Rise, and it's only slightly because they're introducing dogs
remote bramble
I don't know how to feel about Rise on a Nintendo platform. Hopefully it's not backwards online.
eager hamlet
Rise, yeah
rancid cove
yeah the prospect of nintendo-friendly online scares me a bit, but the actual gameplay looks so good
plus i think they're gonna do old-school unique models for every weapon, which automatically makes it superior to World
remote bramble
And nowadays things are a bit weird I guess. Miss the times of just playing 4U with no discord, no "tier lists", no weird meritocracy community.
Talking of games, hitman 2 is on discount, but I can't say I ever understood quite how to buy the game. Too much dlc
wraith cradle
Gimme a sec
Just buy the Gold Edition
It has all the goodies you'll need and want
The base game plus the two extra levels
wise cedar
rancid cove
so, this is maybe the most satisfying Mecha Combat Fantasy i've ever seen https://clips.twitch.tv/ResoluteThoughtfulDadTheThing
remote bramble
I see, thank you albino
rancid cove
tardy cairn
rancid cove
halo's going in an interesting direction
winter mica
out of curiosity: what are people's favorite nostalgia games? games you love even though they might not hold up to the test of time
mine is pkmn yellow
exotic rune
dark cloud 1, pokemon gold version, and digimon worlds 1 & 3!
eager hamlet
Spectrobes 1 probably
lethal jay
chocobo tales on the ds
opal grove
pokemon mystery dungeon red rescue team
i'd also say bastion but that one obviously holds up
lethal jay
honestly i would say the same about red rescue team
everyone i know who's played it loves it
vast temple
Infamous 2 for me, x-men legends 2 played on a backwards compatible Wii and x-men evolution
Hang on it’s not called evolution but I don’t remember the original name now
X-men deeessstinyy that’s it
quartz latch
(a dozen mediocre JRPGs with one (1) cool idea each fall off her pockets) what
I'll go with Unlimited:SaGa
rancid cove
do they have to be not universally considered timeless?
if so, mischief makers
if not, chrono trigger
Twitter
wraith cradle
We call that 'Lovecraft Lite'
Where if the Eldritch Abomination doesn't die is because you haven't shoot it enough
acoustic gulch
X-men legends 2 rise of apocalypse is hella nostalgic for me, I thought I was the only person who ever played that game
rancid cove
maybe star ocean 3, actually
acoustic gulch
Also I can't listen to Digimon World 4 music without tearing up. I know people consider it the worst DGW by far but it was the only one I played, and my siblings and I had a lot of fun with it
acoustic gulch
I vividly remember the scene where Apocalypse busts in their house and throws Beast out a window
cause I remember I kept rewatching it
vast temple
I remember my young self deciding that powers were too good to use so I just sacrificed all but cyclops on my team beating the Christ out of red alert with their fists
Unintentional challenge run lmao
acoustic gulch
lol, I only stopped playing cause I got stuck in this level that was like an old temple. The pathway was blocked and we had no idea how to get past it, even after searching everywhere. The internet wasn't really something I used yet, so we couldn't look up solutions
Sunfire was my favorite character though, I liked him so much I imagined Pyro from the movie was him
vast temple
I’m pretty sure I beat it? I actually don’t remember but I think I did. Deadpool was my favorite I think, along with magneto. butterfly kick did so much damage
Even like 20 levels below the rest of my party
remote bramble
Roller coaster tycoon 2
dire condor
Eugh, generic anime art style. That kinda thing was acceptable 10-15 years ago, but it's just lazy and uninspired now. Didn't touch Xenoblade or Code Vein because of it. Plus those games often have subpar gameplay on top of it.
Yeah, I haven't played a Tales game in 6 years.
Tales has only gotten worse over time. The series peaked at Vesperia and then for some reason, the quality came crashing down.
Zestiria was a trainwreck and Berseria is just a slightly less awful Zestiria.
ebon spear
One does not simply refuse to touch Xenoblade Chronicles.
dire condor
I can't take a game seriously when its characters remind me of Yandere Simulator
Just what I need, that stock image variety of anime. That mid-2000s aesthetic
dire condor
God, Vesperia was so good.
I need to look into my file again, see why voices aren't playing outside of battle.
ebon spear
The anime art style often loses a lot of individuality when transferred to 3D.
eager hamlet
I didnt like Berseria much
But my biggest gripes were apparently even worse in Vesperia, so
Idk, I like the artstyle
dire condor
Eh, it's more the design that's the problem. The Persona series does a great job at making anime characters look very good and unique. Recognizable from everything else
ebon spear
That's true, but Persona uses a lot of 2D artwork.
Most of the games you seem to have gripes with are transferring an anime style to 3D models.
dire condor
But it also has anime cutscenes, in which the characters still look very good. Not as good as the portraits, but still
ebon spear
And I agree, they tend to all blend together in 3D.
dire condor
The models didn't look great until P5, admittedly
ebon spear
In any case, if you were ever actually considering a Xenoblade game, I'd recommend the series. Lots of great characters, and the gameplay is solid.
dire condor
But the above trailer, for instance...the dude with short black hair just looks like Kirito from SAO. And Kirito is like the McDonalds of male protagonist designs
quartz latch
would be nice if someone with a solid budget tried a more unusual anime style. There's more variety out there than the current crop of AJRPGs would have you think...
dire condor
I think Nier was pretty distinct.
ebon spear
But the above trailer, for instance...the dude with short black hair just looks like Kirito from SAO. And Kirito is like the McDonalds of male protagonist designs
@dire condor At this point, having an anime protagonist with a rounded face and black hair is going to be an instant turn off for a lot of folks.
dire condor
Well everyone else looks bad too, but the moment it showed him I was like "oh great, so they put bare minimum effort into the characters, I wonder if that reflects their effort on the gameplay too"
which is usually a yep
They'll spend too much time trying to make "cool" animations, but fail miserably at giving them good collision detection with enemy skeletons, good sound design, and I swear every game that looks like that has floaty movement.
It's like they understand the bare basics of designing a 3D action game, but are unwilling to put any real effort into it. As long as the trailer looks amazing, people will buy it.
ebon spear
Just finished watching that trailer, actually.
It looks alright, not really my sort of thing.
The thing that stood out to me the most was that I thought the character designs kinda clashed with the monster and environmental design.
quartz latch
For me Nier manages to scrounge together a pretty solid and unique aesthetic but not in the actual style the characters are drawn&rendered in... the shape of the faces, the way the eyes are drawn, the noses, that's all pretty standard fare I think.
dire condor
Which is a weird contrast to have. Why put so much creativity into bosses and such when the characters look like they were copied and pasted out of a Korean MMO?
ebon spear
It's not even that the bosses have particularly eye-catching designs, it's more like they seems like they were designed by someone who wasn't communicating much with the character designers.
dire condor
It might make me supremely picky, but I literally would go from "never touching it" to "this looks really cool" if those characters looked really good instead
and I could even forgive the B-tier gameplay
ebon spear
Fair enough.
dire condor
Like if Hades character portraits looked like that, my opinion of the game would be much lower lol
ebon spear
Well, style is much easier to achieve in 2D without putting a ton of effort in.
Because it's easier to experiment with line width and shading.
wraith cradle
Xenoblade isn't THAT Generic
ebon spear
In 3D, that's all on the engine, so it's a bit more tricky.
wraith cradle
The first one I mean
ebon spear
Well, I agree with you there.
quartz latch
Agreed on the first Xenoblade from what I've seen (it's in my backlog), it's not quite what I'm hoping for but it's got its own thing going to a certain degree.
eager hamlet
The protagonist looking generic has less to do with the artstyle and more that protagonists tend to look generic
wraith cradle
One game I loved for the unusual anime artstyle was Troubleshooter AKA 'Anime Xcom'
ebon spear
I thought the characters cleaned up really nicely for the Definitive Edition.
I disagree that protagonists inherently look generic.
Big disagreement there.
ebon spear
Well, yeah, it's a popular choice.
It's more to do with how skilled one is at designing characters, I think.
eager hamlet
Its less that
And more to allow players to more easily associate with the character
lethal jay
isn't it what people are comfortable with/think will sell
eager hamlet
Its easy to associate with a regular boy with short black hair
Its not so easy to associate with Mr Torgue
ebon spear
Well, sure, but everyone likes playing as Kratos.
lethal jay
he's pretty generic by western standards actually
ebon spear
And, personally, I don't associate much with him.
lethal jay
white angsty dad
ebon spear
Aight, fine.
eager hamlet
Kratos has distinguishing qualities
But uh
He is still burly white dude with a beard
Which is the western equivalent
ebon spear
That's true.
lethal jay
it's probably a side effect of being a big budget game honestly
eager hamlet
Granted thats moreso a thing in RPGs
lethal jay
shareholders don't like experimentation
eager hamlet
Due to their nature as, well, RPGs
ebon spear
What I was referring to earlier is that an experienced and skilled character designer is less likely to be accused to creating a generic-looking cast, I would assume.
wraith cradle
I love how they transformed one of the most edgiest self-serving murderous and selfish MCs in history to a genuinely complex character
lethal jay
designer skill is also a definite factor
eager hamlet
True but even then
lethal jay
but it's certainly not the only thing going on
eager hamlet
Consider Noctis from FFXV
ebon spear
Sure, sure.
wraith cradle
Like in the first trilogy all solutons to his problems were murder
eager hamlet
He is the same archetype, in a game with otherwise interesting designs
wraith cradle
He is the same archetype, in a game with otherwise interesting designs
@eager hamlet
There is a history behind that
Final Fantasy XV's main cast were designed ten years of Development Hell before the game came out, and as a fashion brand collaboration, too - meaning the outfits could not be altered heavily. This meant that when the game came eventually out in 2016, the main cast was all still dressed for the fashion trends of Japan, 2006 (apart from the updating of their hairstyles). Ardyn deserves a special mention, due to his design being finalised in The New '10s unlike the 00s like the party members. His outfit is clearly meant to come across as bizarre, bohemian and anachronistic, but incorporates mid-10s catwalk elements like laser-cut lace (which had not been technically possible in the mid-00s), a white concertina-pleated shirt, bell sleeves, and floral embroidery. The result of this is that Ardyn ends up being more fashionable than the supposedly hip protagonists, who are a decade behind.
lethal jay
also they tend to be more flexible with side characters
eager hamlet
Yeah
ebon spear
I suppose protagonists are more likely to have inspired designs once you drift away from action-heavy stories.
eager hamlet
My guess is in Scarlet Nexus you can customise anyway
ebon spear
I mean, look at Violet Evergarden, easily the most visually striking character in her story.
lethal jay
yeah when you see the designers playing with other stuff it tends to all come together
eager hamlet
So what were seeing is just a generic template
ebon spear
That could make sense.
dire condor
Adult Noctis is pretty hot though, ngl
wraith cradle
One of my biggets dissapointments in FFXV is that you barely spend any time in the post Timeskip open-World
dire condor
I'd like more 25-35 year old protagonists in JRPGs, especially now when a lot of the original fans of the genre are in that age range
The older I get, the less I relate to the high school kids
dire condor
Part of the Witcher's appeal for me is that I play as an older gruff dude who has some life experience, not some wet behind the ears boy who needs everything explained to him
eager hamlet
Again, the whole "unfinished game" bit it in the arse there
The issue with that age range for JRPG protagonists is that it doesnt exactly work with the general JRPG tropes
ebon spear
How about Dark Souls?
dire condor
Dark Souls you make your own...abomination lol
ebon spear
I mean, it's technically a JRPG.
eager hamlet
Its not
ebon spear
🤔
eager hamlet
JRPG at this point doesnt just mean "japanese RPG"
A lot of Japanese RPGs arent JRPGs, some western RPGs are JRPGs
dire condor
Yes, but you make your own character with no backstory, arc or dialogue whatsoever. It's a JRPG simply because it's made in Japan, but it's very un-JRPG in its design
wraith cradle
Corvo Attano is a good example of Middle Aged mc
The protagonist of Vagrant Story is in her late twenties
ebon spear
The protagonist of Lisa also springs to mind, though I forget his name.
dire condor
I disliked Corvo in the first Dishonored because he's just another silent protag, which they fixed in the sequel...problem is, I think the sequel's story only works when playing as Emily. Corvo being playable feels like an afterthought imo
Dishonored 2 is very much written as a coming of age/student saving the master scenario
wraith cradle
The Vampyr mc too
dire condor
But y'all are listing western games and I said JRPGs, hnnngh
wraith cradle
I just said Vagrant Story
dire condor
Listing distant outliers doesn't fix the problem I have...
wraith cradle
Oh I thought you wanted one to play xd
dire condor
Nah, I'm just ranting
ebon spear
The Last Story had older characters, though you might have to bust out your Wii for that one.
eager hamlet
The "issue" is really just that JRPG doesnt seem to be your genre
Young protagonists are part of the JRPG genre
dire condor
Quite the contrary, I absolutely love JRPGs, I just want more older protags
eager hamlet
For better or for worse
dire condor
Just because I don't like one aspect of them doesn't mean the genre as a whole is "not for me"
eager hamlet
The thing is, young protagonists are pretty integral to the genre
dire condor
I like shooters but I don't like mary sue war hero stories, which take up like 90% of that genre...but I still enjoy playing shooters anyway
quartz latch
Lost Odyssey technically has them but they don't feel their age half the time
And yeah, mood on more widespread older protags.
dire condor
Lost Odyssey was weird for me because I was very young when I played it, but it got better over time because it's a more mature story
albeit with some really silly cliches towards the end
eager hamlet
The thing with JRPGs is that the character invariably starts from 0, since thats kinda the point of a JRPG
quartz latch
I felt like the writing mostly didn't live up to its potential - at least the potential's still there, but it was often frustrating to see cutscene after cutscene fall flat for me.
wraith cradle
If tiy want a JRPG with an old MC you should try Resonance of Fate ||Just Kidding Uno||
eager hamlet
And having that happen with an adult doesnt tend to work very well
They arent that old, are they?
dire condor
FF7 had a mostly adult cast with Cloud already beginning as a seasoned mercenary
and that game did well, did it not?
wraith cradle
Cloud is 24
eager hamlet
Cloud is barely an adult, and the thing is that he wasnt a seasoned mercenary
quartz latch
Is'nt he 21?
dire condor
That's like 8 years older than the average protag
eager hamlet
He was a mercenary, but clearly starting out
twin yarrow
at 24 organism stops growing, at this point one can be considered old
eager hamlet
21 in FF7
quartz latch
I seem to remember Tifa 20-Cloud 21-Aeris 22 but VII is not my area of expertise
eager hamlet
24 in Dirge of Cerberus
wraith cradle
Given Midgar conditions 14 is being Middle aged there
rancid cove
the point of a jrpg is to kill your father who is also god
twin yarrow
also most people have their best time long before that anyway
rain gazelle
Ouch.
quartz latch
wut
dire condor
And even if Cloud himself isn't the most mature member of the group, the supporting cast made up for it. Except Yuffie, but I just pretend her weird ass doesn't exist
eager hamlet
I mean
Barret is the only one who is really old
And he is, uh
Kind of immature?
rain gazelle
Isn't Vincent pretty old also?
quartz latch
Cid counts I think? Vincent nominally
eager hamlet
Kind of immature?
quartz latch
Women can't be old we can't let them know we get old. But the men had a pleasant age range in that party for me.
wraith cradle
I wanted to check Lulu Age and she is 22 lmao
quartz latch
(not a single woman over 25 in a Final Fantasy party EVER and I'll die bitter about it)
eager hamlet
Granted this argument doesnt work with ongoing series
wraith cradle
Like she looks 30
twin yarrow
also, if the setting is in medieval ages, or generic fantasy (which is the same thing 90% of the time) guys in 30 years are usually grey and wrinkled
dire condor
Vincent and Yuffie don't feel like they needed to be in the game, imo. I can understand why Cait Sith exists more than they do...but eh, they help fill out the roster for more diverse parties
rancid cove
not a single woman over 25 appears as a hero in jrpgs
rancid cove
either one!
eager hamlet
Pretty sure the Trails series has a couple
rancid cove
there's a wonderfully horrible trope of Christmas Cake
quartz latch
(and like one (1) old woman as a major NPC in the whole damn series, despite all the Cids and Tellah and FuSoYa and the rest)
rancid cove
look it up if you wanna lose all hope for japan
quartz latch
Grandia 3 half counts maybe
eager hamlet
Im well aware of that trope
wraith cradle
Minfilia?
rancid cove
isnt she like. 26.
wraith cradle
She is 27
quartz latch
Chrono Cross and Suikoden have recruitable moms, but also big parties. Especially Suikoden obvs
dire condor
Man, I'm gonna do a complete 180 and just say how much I love the first Grandia game. You play as literal children, but it's balanced out SO WELL with the more adult elements, it's an absolutely amazing game
wraith cradle
Oh there is Fran
eager hamlet
She might be the oldest party member period, actually
wraith cradle
Fran is old although she looks younger
quartz latch
Tellah is older than 50!
ebon spear
Cherche from Fire Emblem Awakening is around 30, I believe.
quartz latch
Ditto Galuf.
rancid cove
yeah im gonna say Five Thousand Year Old Dragons dont count
ebon spear
Reina from Fates is similarly an older character.
yeah im gonna say Five Thousand Year Old Dragons dont count
@rancid cove I mean, I never said they did.
wraith cradle
Let me show you the disparity in one image
quartz latch
ProtoJodariel aka Sif from Romancing SaGa looks well into her 30s but I don't know if SaGa bothers with character ages
eager hamlet
Then there is Silvia from Ys VIII
rancid cove
it was more about "fran is old but looks young"
ebon spear
I was specifically listing counter examples.
eager hamlet
She is an optional boss
wraith cradle
eager hamlet
But she is a 70 year old retired gladiator
quartz latch
wraith cradle
How can Lightning be 21?
rancid cove
hard life
wraith cradle
Have they seen an ACTUAL 21 y/o?
eager hamlet
Bit of an eh outfit, but she is a gladiator, sooo
Anyway yeah, its still a rare thing
It exists, but I struggle to come up with more than 5
quartz latch
I mentally add 5 years to most anime and anime-adjacent characters and it works for my peace of mind 😂
26 years old Lightning is something of a stretch already, but it starts to be believable. 22yo Tidus checks out imho. And so on.
wraith cradle
Lots of adaptations do that as it makes so interactions less sqeuaky or unrealistic
quartz latch
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/romancingsaga/images/1/10/RoSaMinSif.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/129?cb=20111205215728 sorry, creativeuncut doesn't give a preview, I love her and I want to share
wraith cradle
Lyndis is 15 on japan 18-19 in America
dire condor
Auron is only 35? WUT? Dude looks and sounds 50
quartz latch
Whoa really? Damn.
twin yarrow
life was tough
quartz latch
It's been a rough 10 years 😅
And again, his current look signals "it's been a rough 10 years" but his background scenes work better at 30ish than 25 I think...
wraith cradle
Jill Valentine was 23 in RE1 and she has barely aged since then lol
At least Claire looks more adult looking in her latest games tho
In a VERY hilarious example Mario is supposedly in his 20s
eager hamlet
Anyway, one think I would like to see more in JRPGs
Is industrial era magitech
As the setting
Like Trails
wraith cradle
Also how can Celes be 18?
ebon spear
Considering that Mario is starting to get grey hair, I doubt he's till in his twenties.
twin yarrow
Mario gets younger and younger.. when he made his debut, he looked around 40 or so
now he is so smooth and small that he can be as well 7 yo.. just with moustaches
quartz latch
Yeah Celes is another egregious example x_x Let her be like 27 at least!
wraith cradle
Celes, Lulu, Lightning are characters that should be a decade older
quartz latch
Lulu speedran three pilgrimages at age 22 and I think she should get more recognition for that
Father Zuke taught her to clip through the Kilika ferry to respawn at the Thunder Plains and she passed on the trick to Lady Ginnem.
wraith cradle
I had completely forgotten I had bought nioh half a year ago
Time to start it
Well tomorrow
rancid cove
nioh rules imo
wraith cradle
The protagonist kinda looks like Geralt lol
forest spear
https://lostmediawiki.com/Hammer_vs._Evil_D._in_Soulfire_(lost_build_of_unreleased_Sega_CD_action_game_based_on_rapper;_1994) 100% complete, then hidden behind shelves? that's a somewhat bummer
rancid cove
yeah the protag's kinda awkward, but the gameplay is flonominal
ornate idol
anyone wanna play among us? we need 4 more. have 6
ornate idol
@wise cedar hey
broken smelt
Yo @ornate idol please don't self advertise outside of #self-promotion ty
forest spear
So
has anyone tried playing Venice 2089 lately? I really dig the art style on that game
even did a review-interview combo on it last month
afaik it's only a demo at the moment, but it shows promise for such a student gamedev team
and yeah, I connect well with the MC, along with other characters in this game
fallen sky
solid nimbus
Oooooh
dire condor
Love games like that. 2D adventure /slice of life is good stuff
I really enjoyed Night in the Woods
acoustic gulch
the MC's design reminds me of Coraline
quartz latch
Oh it's developed by locals, too! Go young Paduan devs!
rancid cove
viscid leaf
eager hamlet
I was worried that it was just kinda the tired trope of rock as the counterculture
But the game did do something interesting with it
wraith cradle
Welp, nexomon turned out to have much better plot than I expected
Gonna play the sequel next
zealous fossil
hybrid jetty
so mtg is doing a bunch of crossovers now? didn't they just have a godzilla one or something
eager hamlet
Kinda
This one is bad though because its mechanically unique cards in a limited special print run
And theyre actually legal in legacy etc.
warm edge
why?
that's a horrible idea
rare bone
yeah, the Godzilla stuff was fun, it was just mostly cosmetic card styles and stuff, nothing too out there. Themed crossover sets for legal play is just a weird idea.
junior crown
I remember there being MLP crossover, but that one is kind of fair. Wasn't there also transformers crossover or I am thinking of something else?
rare bone
I don't even know, tbh. I've only gotten back into MTG because of Arena in the past year or so.
eager hamlet
Those 2 also existed, yes
The difference is
They were silver-bordered, aka not playable in any format
junior crown
ah I see
twin yarrow
the collectible collectible cards
dire condor
Wow, No Man's Sky runs so much better than it used to. I can run it almost ultra settings across the board and still maintain 50-60 FPS
This game's performance used to be a trainwreck
It still has some texture pop-in, but I think that's just the nature of the engine they use
wraith cradle
Negan has hard life he has to lead the Saviors, fight against planeswalkers and and defend himself against martial artists armed only with a bat
dire condor
So the latest Civ 6 patch made the AI much better at war and competing in science and religion, it seems. And a lot of people are upset, despite the game getting numerous backlash over the years from the AI being braindead
Brruuuhhh
rancid cove
the question is, is it the same people
dire condor
Probably not, I just find it funny
rancid cove
o, wait, the "me, wise:" must be in response to https://twitter.com/CanYouPetTheDog/status/1310634378423422978?s=20
tall hornet
Those gimmick accounts are ruining indie games
Now every game has to have pettable dog, pettable cat, and you have to be able to violate the Geneva convention
I'm not actually mad about this tbc
rancid cove
i mean, i think the geneva violations just happen organically as a function of the medium
tall hornet
I'm gonna make a game called "you can pet the dog" but in that game you cannot pet the dog
warm edge
oh no
tawdry zinc
Implementing that one mod as official content huh
nice
edgy halo
||well it is hades but didnt find a hades channel with photos on where i can post this||
i finally found out how to use steam point and spent most of my 10k on hades stuff https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/628254909556457504/760480479702548501/unknown.png
lethal jay
you could just post that in #h1-discussion since that's their general chat
edgy halo
i think pictures are disabled there
broken smelt
You can post a link there ( #h1-discussion) to the image like you did here
lethal jay
direct uploads are blocked everywhere except #fan-works but a link works everywhere
rancid cove
wraith cradle
Sooooooo..... Anyone played Spelunky 2 to give me some first impressions?
wraith cradle
Mankind Divided Quality is partly responsible
That or HR just was too high of a bar to pass
rancid cove
im just delighted any time disney fails, mostly